Town Of Terror

[drowsy ravine]

Well it's mainly that Obsessed is fine without Broken

[turbid pumice]

I agree...

[drowsy ravine]

So I want to change Broken

But I don't want to scrap every part of Broken

Like I want there to be at least one way Obsessed turns evil

I guess

[turbid pumice]

Broken feels like a joke rn if I'm honest, like not super serious when it's used...

[turbid pumice]

All outsiders turn evil...

[drowsy ravine]

Yeah that would be the outcome

Though Obsessed won't become evil often, I want it to be a rare thing

Like Repriever picking Underling and making a Neutral

A one off

Obsessed: You die if the first player to nominate you dies. If slapped or reprieved you become evil and all players know who you are.

[turbid pumice]

I'm not sure this should be kept fwiw

Since this might make repriever an outsider

Maybe of its stronger, maybe then

But rn it's weak and might make evil players...

[drowsy ravine]

This was my repriever buff idea

So it can work on demons

[drowsy ravine]

I mean if Repriever picks an Underling claim that's their fault for not asking

[turbid pumice]

But like underling kind of wants to bluff in this game

It's one of few info roles

[drowsy ravine]

Imagine Repriever like philo but it doesn't gain the ability

[drowsy ravine]

I can see that

[turbid pumice]

So shitty Philo?

[drowsy ravine]

Shitty philo that can pick evils

[drowsy ravine]

Except I'm still pretty sure Repriever is strong

It's neiche

But it hard counters some evils

[turbid pumice]

What roles are it stronger than? For good

[drowsy ravine]

Stronger than Phoenix I'd think

Though it depends on the grim really

[turbid pumice]

Fair

Any others?

Maybe make your neighbours immune to minion abilities agree you have died for phoenix?

To make it stronger...

[drowsy ravine]

Like sobering its neighbors?

[drowsy ravine]

Maybe Phoenix itself could be immune?

[turbid pumice]

But stronger... Makes them traitor immune, assassin immune with more

[turbid pumice]

Not that useful

[drowsy ravine]

Hm

[turbid pumice]

It doesn't win enough from it...

[drowsy ravine]

Your neighbors are safe from the Minions

Not sure how exactly that works with Minion, do they just not learn anything?

[drowsy ravine]

Unrelated, thought of this for Innocent

If you die at night, you learn your killers character. The first time you're executed you might not die.

[turbid pumice]

Arbitrary info

[turbid pumice]

Just makes it framable traitor

/jugg

[drowsy ravine]

Yeah

[turbid pumice]

Jugg doesn't need more bluffs...

[drowsy ravine]

It isn't a jugg buff really

[drowsy ravine]

It's just for innocent since it's weaker arso

[turbid pumice]

It 100% is

[turbid pumice]

Don't make it try to be at 100 places at once

Buff it's ability instead...

To make it have one goal...

Maybe make it know why all players killed the night they died was because

[drowsy ravine]

Well that's what we're doing to phoenix tho

[turbid pumice]

No

Were making it a counter to the role it's being framed as

The zombie

[drowsy ravine]

Phoenix: If you die you revive at the start of the following night once. While dead your neighbors are safe from the Minions.

[turbid pumice]

Something like it...

[drowsy ravine]

Not sure whether dead or alive

Or after revive

[drowsy ravine]

Should it specifically target good players?

I think that's a bit too strong

Well I don't really know

[drowsy ravine]

Maybe "Your neighbors are safe from the Minions"

So it wears off if demon kills it?

So it has counterplay

[turbid pumice]

I think it shouldn't really have counter play

Like just kill the neighbours

Thats the counter play

[drowsy ravine]

I guess yeah that works fine

[turbid pumice]

And make it work after one death

[drowsy ravine]

True

[drowsy ravine]

I'll do: While dead your neighbors are safe from the Minions.

Since I don't know how to word it really...

Unless you have a good way to word it

[turbid pumice]

When you die your neighbours are safe from minions

Then it works after the first revive as well

[drowsy ravine]

Once you die your neighbors are safe from the Minions.

Okay I guess that works

[drowsy ravine]

Also, for Bees:

Once per game, at night, the ST wakes a player at the wrong time in the night order. Players know if Bees were used on them.

So evil can bluff it?

[turbid pumice]

Feels confirmative

[drowsy ravine]

And it doesn't confirm

[turbid pumice]

Oh on them...

That works i guess...

[drowsy ravine]

I think it's at least better than previous

I might change it again someday

But I think this works

[drowsy ravine]

I made it effect good neighbors since I didn't like how it interacts with neighboring Traitor/Zombie

[drowsy ravine]

My rework idea for Broken:

Broken: If a good player turns evil, all players know.

(Announcing "A Player Has Turned Evil!" when it happens.)

[turbid pumice]

That works i guess

Makes outsiders super confirmable

Which is meh

[drowsy ravine]

Yeah

I'd probably run it alongside other fables

[turbid pumice]

then it might work

[drowsy ravine]

Rather than alone

Like I could see Randomat + Broken

And you give outsiders semi chaotic powers

[drowsy ravine]

I think I've changed everything I wanted to change beside Jugg

Don't get me wrong

I like Jugg

But something about the armor bugs me

I want a hiding jugg/harle to be different looking

Not too different

But enough for some suspicion

I might keep jugg same for the next run of the script

But I wanna do something to it someday

♦️8: Juggernaut, 8 HP, Fire, Jester, Swapper, & 5+ Damage immune, Attacks enrage, Machine Gun

Machine Gun (does +1 damage for every kill it causes)

Each night*, choose a player: they die. If you kill an Outsider this way, you may choose an additional player. The first time you die, you don't.

Hm

Maybe jugg can be poisoned the day after... Something

Or not poisoned, but lose their armor for a day if a certain action occurs

[turbid pumice]

mmh

[turbid pumice]

maybe make it: whenever an outsider dies, tonight choose a player they die. if no outsiders died yesterday or last night, you can survive execution once

[drowsy ravine]

And keep in mind this jugg nerf will also be paired with innocent "buff"

Intresting mindset

I do like the jugg invincibility being based on outsiders somehow

[turbid pumice]

proposal for inno

remove the once

that's my most disliked part of it

[drowsy ravine]

straight up let inno possibly survive execution anytime

So it isn't doubletapped

I can agree to that

[turbid pumice]

it probably will be

but if they do you can out it

to them'

[drowsy ravine]

Probably

[turbid pumice]

so they can confirm themselves if needed

[drowsy ravine]

But yeah it makes it more townsfolk

[turbid pumice]

what's our zombie buff?

did we buff it?

[drowsy ravine]

We didn't yet

[turbid pumice]

because weakest minion by far

[drowsy ravine]

Though it might need one

[turbid pumice]

-1 outsider

is hige

huge*

[drowsy ravine]

Yeah

I mean last game we ST'd

It poisoned Survivalist

And didn't revive

It was as useful as a vigor killed recluse

[turbid pumice]

no

it removed an outisder

think of it as the survivalist not existing

[turbid pumice]

which is quite weak

compared to poisoner

or Minion

or assasin

[drowsy ravine]

We do need to note any buff to zombie buffs infected

[turbid pumice]

inno is a nice traitor buff fwiw

[drowsy ravine]

At least, depending on what the buff is

[turbid pumice]

i know

which is the real problem

change the setup mods

that's the buff it needs

and doesn't affect infected

[drowsy ravine]

Make it not effect setup?

[turbid pumice]

probably or make it something like: [one player has the zombies ability but does not know it, -1 outisder]

but better worded

if you want more outisder mods

[drowsy ravine]

I do feel with no -1 on script

[turbid pumice]

but not really needed

since most outsiders are hidden...

not all tho...

[drowsy ravine]

It makes outsiders more confirmable

[turbid pumice]

a -1 would be good tbf

especially jester

[drowsy ravine]

Jester will usually be more loud

Obsessed too

tbh

[turbid pumice]

yeah

[drowsy ravine]

That's why I think the -1 is a decent thing

[turbid pumice]

neutral is meh loud

[turbid pumice]

i agree

[drowsy ravine]

but yeah it's rough for zombie

[turbid pumice]

but wrong character i think

makes it to weak

[drowsy ravine]

Maybe minion

Though it would be weird

And a bit too close to GF

For my liking

[turbid pumice]

i agree

something else

[drowsy ravine]

Not sure how traitor having it would work out

Traitor is decent, but it's not ground breaking

Though it's the only minion I'm willing to buff

to a large amount

[turbid pumice]

no

assassin is the one left i guess

i think that would make it close to the weakest minion

[drowsy ravine]

Assassin already adds bodyguard

and is confirmed in play via BG

[turbid pumice]

mmk

make it unkillable during the day maybe and let it kill more than once

maybe?

[turbid pumice]

right...

that's the problem

[drowsy ravine]

Which means Town would know -1 outsider

[turbid pumice]

traitor is also open...

[drowsy ravine]

Traitor could have the innocent power

If you're executed you might not die.

[turbid pumice]

no make it forced

not to many mights on evils

makes it harder to make plays

[drowsy ravine]

hm

[turbid pumice]

in my opinion

[drowsy ravine]

What is viziers wording

Lemme check

[turbid pumice]

and it being unkillable during the day is fine

do so

is a play evils can off themselves

[drowsy ravine]

You can not die during the day.

[turbid pumice]

and some outsiders

[drowsy ravine]

Lemme check organ grinders too

[turbid pumice]

or make it exe the player

and keep the earlier wording

that's quite the buff i think otherwise

kk

[drowsy ravine]

Votes for you only count if you vote.

DA: if executed tomorrow, they don't die

Maybe Traitor can be...

Traitor: If you publicly claim to be the Traitor when nominated your nominator dies. If executed you don't die. [-1 Outsider]

[drowsy ravine]

Any critiques with that one ^^^

This allows it to self nom and explode

If it feels like it

(and the -1 on zombie would be removed)

This makes vigi and repriever the best counters to Traitor

[drowsy ravine]

It's a minion that wins if it survives to final 3

So maybe it should disable like witch

Though that's hard to wager.

I mean Psycho doesn't

[drowsy ravine]

It's actually really close to Psychopath in power

But it doesn't speed up the game quite as fast

[turbid pumice]

nah

let it be if it survives til then

[drowsy ravine]

Okay

I do like it a lot

[turbid pumice]

maybe only let it do it on it's first life?

[drowsy ravine]

Wdym?

[turbid pumice]

this was thought with only 2 lives

so only let it do it on it's first

otherwise it's just an instant win

and also makes bluffing to make someone nom you better

since you can then get 2 charges

maybe only on good players perhaps?

[drowsy ravine]

Maybe it can execute the player

Well actually that's even stronger in final 4

nvm

[drowsy ravine]

Wouldn't that be the same as original?

If you publicly claim to be the Traitor when nominated your nominator dies. The first time you die, you don't. [-1 Outsider]

@turbid pumice Think the original might be strong enough as is to have [-1 Outsider]?

It's not OP

In final 3 if it self noms and hasn't died

It claims traitor and won't die

But if it died earlier it can

Which means it bluffed its way to survive till final 3

(or if it's exed in final 4, but at that point good commited)

Yeah I think as is, Traitor is strong enough to have [-1 Outsider] and still not need a buff

However

As is, Traitor does need to nerf Jugg somehow

Or Jugg needs to be nerfed to account for Traitor

Maybe Jugg can reflect Harlequin

If a minion is exed it's poisoned

Actually that might work, hold on

[turbid pumice]

it's execution

[turbid pumice]

not a chance

it gets one kill

and is outed

so the demon has to kill them

the only good thing was being framed as jugg

[drowsy ravine]

It can still self nom

And kill itself

As the original

[turbid pumice]

But -1 outsider tho

It's probably better in small games tho

I guess

[drowsy ravine]

Also it's fully hidden by Minion

[turbid pumice]

But like the -1 outsider removes a kill for most demons

Or a poison charge

[drowsy ravine]

So the difference is
Original: can't die once
New: can't be executed ever

[turbid pumice]

Fair thats a berg

Nerf*

It's not

Mb

It also buffs zombie

[drowsy ravine]

How's it do that

[turbid pumice]

Zombie can nom them once after the revive for x2 poison

[drowsy ravine]

Oh that's a cool combo

It does out two minions tho

[drowsy ravine]

Maybe just if a minion dies it's poisoned

So a traitor can't self kill in final 4 for an auto win

Final 3 it can

But that will be the case for every demon

Each night*, choose a player: they die. If you kill an Outsider this way, you may choose an additional player. The first time you die, you don't, if a Minion dies you're poisoned until dusk.

[turbid pumice]

it's a trade off

[drowsy ravine]

Yeah, a fine trade

[turbid pumice]

only one player can nom you each day

[turbid pumice]

feels quite weak...

especially compared to the other demons

and is quite easily outed

[drowsy ravine]

I don't think it is terribly weak but yeah it does become weakest demon out of the 4

[turbid pumice]

by a bit

or cheater is hard to judge

but i would rate this as weaker

[drowsy ravine]

Cheater might be weakest tbh but I have no compass for that

[turbid pumice]

with this nerf i think it isn't

[drowsy ravine]

I still think jugg is decent

[turbid pumice]

like it looses so many kills

and it has to kill the outsiders that are really strong to gain their bonus

and it's outed immedietly

[drowsy ravine]

If just 3 players live, you lose this ability?

It solves the problem without removing kills

It also makes Renegade, demon swap moderations/randomats, certain cheats less OP

Somewhat

Juggernaut: Each night*, choose a player: they die. If you kill an Outsider this way, you may choose an additional player. If 4 or more players live, the first time you die, you don't.

[turbid pumice]

jugg looses kills

[turbid pumice]

then the extra life doesn't do as much

[drowsy ravine]

Where does it lose kills?

[turbid pumice]

not any more

[drowsy ravine]

True

[turbid pumice]

the extra life does quite little...

[drowsy ravine]

Yeah

But like

The point of the extra life probably shouldn't be:

"You win in final 3"

It should be:

"You have two very solid bluffs you can go for"

Since minions on the script are either kind of hidden or very invincible

Winning final 3 is too much

I do think this makes Jugg weaker

But it's more on par with Cheater

[turbid pumice]

like maybe

makes those roles less suspicous tbf

so maybe 🤷

[drowsy ravine]

One more thing I can do

Turn

If you kill an Outsider this way, you may choose an additional player.

Into

If you choose an Outsider this way, you may choose an additional player.

To give Jugg a little bonus against Pierrot protecting an outsider

I donno

Since Pierrot is basically better monk

a weakness or two is fine

Anyway

Last but not least

Was thinking of making cheater leech like

In the sense that it can die if (& only if) accused of cheating

(as is it's fine tbf, just trouble shooting)

[drowsy ravine]

It shifts the way it's played a lot so not sure about it yet.

I think it'd be fine

All things considered

[turbid pumice]

don't like it really... makes pierrot quite a bit weaker

non confirmative

[drowsy ravine]

Alright

[turbid pumice]

it makes no deaths harder to orchastrate

and i don't think it makes sense for jugg tbf

[drowsy ravine]

True

[drowsy ravine]

@turbid pumice I had a thought that Broken could allow Demons to Starpass maybe. (alongside announcing good turning evil?)

Since on this script it's easier to find minions so maybe not as strong?

(Tell me if this is a good or meh idea when you're online)

If meh I'll leave it as is I guess

[drowsy ravine]

Also

Cheater buff:

Can cheat if the ST allows it. If accused of cheating by a living player, you die, even if for some reason you could not, wrong accusations might execute accusers.

(Making a shielded gunslinger accusing twice not nearly as strong)

[turbid pumice]

ooh

i think that buff is really cool

[turbid pumice]

if so i think it should be, something like: if the demon chooses to choose noone they die and a minion of their choice becomes the demon, if used this will be announced

like because it has to be really loud

since this is just a demon buff

[drowsy ravine]

I don't see difference between (sinking and dying) or (self killing)

I do see how announcing it makes it louder.

[turbid pumice]

People know they starpassed

And have to look at traitors and zombies as candidates

[turbid pumice]

Harlequin for example

Can kill 2 people

Först another player then themselves then

[drowsy ravine]

Oh I see

[drowsy ravine]

If a good player turns evil, all players know. If the Demon chooses no one, they die, a Minion becomes the new Demon, and all players know.

[drowsy ravine]

Sounds fine

[turbid pumice]

yeah... makes a lot of stuff confirmable... but works

guess it works best with moderator/randomat tho

[drowsy ravine]

Yeah made with those in mind

[turbid pumice]

All good

[drowsy ravine]

♣️5: Obsessed, 3 HP, Can see first shooters card, Dies with Obsession, Broken if enraged, Juggernog

Obsessed: You die if the first player to nominate you dies. If slapped or reprieved you become evil and all players know who you are.

Might change this

[north plover]

👀

[drowsy ravine]

First thing is the inspiration

[turbid pumice]

you and a player who nominated you die, when a player who nominated you dies

maybe

[drowsy ravine]

Mainly fear Obsessed being nommed by demon in that case

[turbid pumice]

might die?

then

[drowsy ravine]

I'm thinking like, how would I make obsessed if I were swapping it with bmr's moonchild

If that makes sense

Or making it grandma but bad

You start knowing a player, if they die, you die too

^ removing the nom part completely

[drowsy ravine]

hm

It could even be:

If your obsession dies, you die too.

Removing the knowledge entirely

Tho tbh that'd be weird

Lol

[drowsy ravine]

"love this person, never met em"

[drowsy ravine]

Hm

Obsessed: You start knowing a player. If they die, you die too. If nominated by them you become evil and all players know.

Could be fun

And makes it a way better bluff

[turbid pumice]

No

It changes alignment

And they don't know you

And if they nom you and you're bluffing, then you have something to explain

[turbid pumice]

Maybe let the obsession know if you turn evil

And maybe make it so the obsession has to be good

[drowsy ravine]

Probably should of said "easier bluff" or something.

Anyway

Obsessed: You start knowing a player. If they die, you die too. If nominated by them you become evil and a good player learns this tonight.

How's this?

[drowsy ravine]

Also

Innocent: If you die, you learn the character most responsible for your death. If you're executed you might not die.

[turbid pumice]

Good favoured

[turbid pumice]

It isn't

[drowsy ravine]

Is it any better than the previous version of Obsessed?

Since I feel it is

[drowsy ravine]

@north plover Do you have any opinions on this version of Obsessed compared to the old one?

[north plover]

Im rather obsessed with it.

(But srsly sounds like a much cooler concept just be careful about letting extra evils run rampant)

[drowsy ravine]

I removed and altered a few things

Things like the repriever being able to make underling evil

[north plover]

I think the repriver and underling thing might not be such a bad shout

Cause it A. proves repriver B. proves underling C. gives them someone to shoot and D. confirms the info

[drowsy ravine]

(since I removed it on Obsessed it made even less sense to have it on Underling)

[drowsy ravine]

Yeah somewhat, but repriever can confirm itself with a phoenix without making a bonus evil

[north plover]

Yeah but that could just mean there never was a pheonix

That confirms neither of them

[drowsy ravine]

Also evil underling could lie

[north plover]

if the ST anounces "yo. They are evil." then that confirms 2 people and their info

Wait isnt it turned into a sober neutral not an evil underling?

If U had the ST announce the interaction it might make it more balanced

[drowsy ravine]

Yeah well, the announcing thing is why the Broken fable is the way it is

[drowsy ravine]

Yeah but that's sad for Underling, being confirmed evil by ST

[north plover]

If they are the neutral, they can turn back good, and it confirms their info

[drowsy ravine]

yeah, but to turn good they must die

Which is why reprieving phoenix achives a simular thing

[north plover]

If it confirms 2 good players, one of which is a heavy info gatherer (in fact, one of the only ones) via ST announcement then I would like to think its worth it

[drowsy ravine]

Well yeah but once turned neutral they get no info

[north plover]

Every coin has a second face

[drowsy ravine]

mainly evil don't have a counterplay

[drowsy ravine]

If this happens late game evils + underling just sort of die.

[north plover]

"If a good player turns evil, all players know."

Dosent this qualify for uh neutral as well

Also the obsessed dosent need a "1 player knows" if all players know a player turned evil right?

[drowsy ravine]

It's a D1 announcement:

Someone has turned evil...

[drowsy ravine]

That's only if broken in play

Ping is there in case it isn't

[north plover]

"The Minions and Demon think you are a Minion. Minions do not know the Demon. If you die, the Demon learns who the Minions are that night."

1 minion game how

[drowsy ravine]

Wdym?

Ah well simply the minion knows

[north plover]

XD

Ok fair

[drowsy ravine]

Tbh the script isn't meant for teensy lmao

[north plover]

“'ello, this is 911... Oh, sorry, all the cops are on holiday, I'm just an intern... What do you mean there's a bomb?”

You changed the BG text 👀

[drowsy ravine]

Traitor as minion + Jugg demon is basically an auto win

[north plover]

It used to be"R U still there" or something like that

[drowsy ravine]

I felt it was funnier this way lol

[north plover]

Wow I wonder if thats ever happened before.

“Nothing bad ever happens in this town!”

Town of Salem by BIAB and Minx?

[drowsy ravine]

Ye

[north plover]

"Welcome to Terrorist Town, come and play a round! Here's your role, don't be scared, you'll be safe and sound. There's mountains of tokens, some better, some worse. If Underlings of interest to you you'd be the first! Welcome to Terrorist Town, watch out for the Bees! Would you like to try surviving or to kill everybody? There's no need for tension, look I'll Traitor Test, Haha! Don't mind the fact you got shot in the chest! Welcome to Terrorist Town, what would you prefer? Would you like to join the Innocents or be a Traitor? Be chaos, be evil, or have your role change! Pray the Repriever doesn't make the Obsessed enraged!"

This is just Welcome to the Internet isnt it

[drowsy ravine]

There's a lot of references actually

[north plover]

Time to go reference hunting

“As I always say, 'I love committing tax fraud!'”

Oh hey look its a reference to me

[drowsy ravine]

I mean yeah sometimes it's less reference and more wordplay

[north plover]

“I don't need a doctor, I am a doctor... Though a fire extinguisher would be nice.”

Ha ha pheonix, fire bird, fire extinguisher

“AHHH, HELP, I AM BEING REPEATEDLY STABBED, TELL MY WIFE, KIDS, COUSINS, EMPLOYERS, ACCOUNTANTS, DEBTORS, ACQUAINTANCES, AND LOCAL HOMELESS POPULATION I LOVE THEM!!!”

Innocent has a buisness company? Innocent lore? 👀

“Ugh, this migraine is such a pain, ugh, kill me... Wait, hold on 'twas a jest!!!”

'twas jest a jest. Jester moment.

“TACTICAL NUKE, INCOMING!!!”

Oh yeah its that XD

[drowsy ravine]

Clearly in debt to mafia

Bet you don't know the song Infected references

[north plover]

Kiss Me (Kill Me) By JerryTerry?

[drowsy ravine]

Ye

[north plover]

There was 0 googling involved in that answer trust
And I definetely knew it was a song before you said anything

[drowsy ravine]

Listen to the song and you'll probably understand why I thought it fit insanely well with Infected

[north plover]

The Bees is a quote from that one movie

uh

The Wicker Man right?

Cant remember

but something like that

[drowsy ravine]

Close enough lol

[north plover]

That was Nick Cage who played that

right

or am I being dumb

[drowsy ravine]

Ye

[drowsy ravine]

Also, if you have any more ideas for flavor text I might use them

Since I'm iffy on Renegade, Neutral, Broken, Barnacle etc

[north plover]

"Hold on, I left the stove on at home" -Technoblade, when not-drowning.

hmmmmmmmmmmm

let me thing

[drowsy ravine]

Yo wait that give's me good flavor for my other wip script with Frogman

[north plover]

XD ok

[drowsy ravine]

I had to take a break from drowning to get a glass of water.

[north plover]

Yeah

that on

[turbid pumice]

I don't like there being more evils

It's a real problem

That needs to be solved

Especially with harlequin

But otherwise it's probably better than the previous one

Just don't announce it to everyone

Maybe let a good player know like you said

Since evils gain an extra evil

So it works out

[drowsy ravine]

Yeah

[turbid pumice]

I think make it a good player as the obsession

And a good player learns

So good gains a lot from the turn

But evils gain an extra evil

So it's like a balance

For making them less inclined to insta out

[drowsy ravine]

If a good player is the obsession couldn't Obsessed just tell them?

I guess that's not a bad thing

My Obsessed it's optimal to whisper your obsession your role

So you can either pair with a good player or turn evil early

Your Obsessed either whispers and plays 100% good

Or does not and attempts to win evil

Hoping they are randomly nommed by their obsession

It's a bit like Neutral

But reversed

[turbid pumice]

Yes

Bur they could be bluffing

And it's still a double kill for evil

[drowsy ravine]

yeah it's a double kill

Both of our obsessed are the same in that

Mine just could be obsessed with an evil

[turbid pumice]

i don't think it should

since it's to good for evik

[drowsy ravine]

Idea for minion that's a bit silly

Each night, choose a player: learn if they are an Outsider. You might die at any time. [+1 or +2 Outsiders]

[brazen pilot]

Why

[drowsy ravine]

I mean i probably wouldn't make it anytime

I was thinking minion being able to self kill could help the script overall

It was kind of a random thought though

Probably would have to make it: if 4+ players live you can die anytime

That is

If it's good enough to consider adding

For the script overall

[drowsy ravine]

Maybe...

Each night*, learn who died: if 4 or more players live, you may choose to die. [+1 or +2 Outsiders]

[turbid pumice]

just make it might

in that version

may if you have that as their sole ability

[drowsy ravine]

Each night*, learn who died: if 4 or more players live, you may die at any time. [+1 or +2 Outsiders]

?

[turbid pumice]

how would this even work?

you can bomb yourself in final 4

by saying i want to die?

during the night will you be woken after every action to choose to live or die?

[drowsy ravine]

I mean I just didn't understand what you meant by this

So I wrote it like I thought you could of meant?

[turbid pumice]

rn the minion chooses themselves when they die

as currently worded

the minion chooses

and since they could theoretically choose anytime

you would have to prompt them at any and all times

between all night actions

and the like

since looter can't learn stuff from alive people

and they could suicide after

or survivalist not being able to pick them

so i have 2 solutions

either we make it just a tinker with outsider mod

which i feel is less fun for the players

so i think we just make it a each night* you may choose to die [+1 or +2 outsiders]

not sure we should even have the not used when 3 live part

[drowsy ravine]

No learning involved

[turbid pumice]

since traitor doesnt have it

and the like

[turbid pumice]

mb + the learning part

[drowsy ravine]

So this?

Each night*, learn who died: you may choose to die. [+1 or +2 Outsiders]

[midnight kraken]

Error, command not supported. Please type '.help' for a list of recognised commands

[midnight kraken]

Error, command not supported. Please type '.help' for a list of recognised commands

[drowsy ravine]

Gj lol

[drowsy ravine]

Well that was fun

[turbid pumice]

@drowsy ravine i think you should first of all add that not in play to cheater to make it more clear, make 1 night kill per death arbitrary and make one player able to learn a hint to what might have been cheated (if not in play this information is given out arbitrarily)

[drowsy ravine]

This is what I have currently:

Can cheat if the ST allows it. If accused of cheating before nominations by a living good player, you die, even if for some reason you could not, wrong accusations might execute accusers regardless if in play.

Wdym by "make 1 night kill per death arbitrary"?

(I added the "not in play" thing as "regardless if in play" btw)

[turbid pumice]

To make the kills unrelated to the cheats

[drowsy ravine]

Like lil monsta?

[drowsy ravine]

A player dies each night*.

[turbid pumice]

Yeah

[drowsy ravine]

If kills are decided by ST, then what cheats would usually be granted?

Is the idea to stop cheater from causing no death nights? Or something else.

[drowsy ravine]

I guess I'm just thinking they can cheat... So "kill sam tonight" to direct our kill works, right?

I'm not sure that's what you want.

[turbid pumice]

Yeah, but there should be more boundaries for cheating

[drowsy ravine]

Hey Moll, unrelated, do you think Minion should be changed?

To the tinker thing, or any other idea.

[turbid pumice]

it feels super strong, but feels bad to play, like a less fun baron 🤷

[drowsy ravine]

Yeah

[drowsy ravine]

I was thinking something like: You may set a code word, if you say it, you die. [+1 or +2 Outsiders]

Bit weird tho lol

[turbid pumice]

it might work with traitor

and stuff

[drowsy ravine]

They could in theory make themself or a teammate look like traitor

Though maybe it should be "you may die at anytime" so it's easier to be used effectively

[turbid pumice]

yeah...

[drowsy ravine]

Removes player agency but that never hurt Baron to my knowledge

[turbid pumice]

and we should make it only +1 outsider

[turbid pumice]

yeah

so they choose

may means choose

[drowsy ravine]

I could see that being fine

Considering Infected is a +1 too

[turbid pumice]

like still

this is still a quite powerful minion

to just be able to implode

[drowsy ravine]

You may die at any time. [+1 Outsider]

Has the ability to win final 3 like traitor, just can't hurt others

[turbid pumice]

yeah...

[drowsy ravine]

How about this: Each night*, may choose to die tonight or anytime tomorrow [+1 Outsider]

So it's still player choice, but ST's have input

[turbid pumice]

that works i guess

[drowsy ravine]

Any other ideas

I'm all ears

[drowsy ravine]

@north plover @mental dragon thoughts on changing TOT Minion to this?

(as opposed to: Each night, choose a player: learn if they are an Outsider)

[mental dragon]

the Outsider modification now kind of feels tacked on

[north plover]

Interesting stuff

[drowsy ravine]

Alternately, we could make it Minion: Each night, choose a player: learn how many steps they are from an Outsider [+1 or +2 Outsiders]

Making that amne ability we made that one time the actual thing

[mental dragon]

I think that may be worse

than the current version

[drowsy ravine]

Solid take and understandable lol

[drowsy ravine]

I'm not sure what to do with Minion, I feel it's lame compared to the others

I mean it's a baron type, so it's hard to avoid

But I still feel there's potential

The outsider manipulation was the main reason it exists, the rest was mostly bonus

Other idea

Minion: You think you are an Outsider, but you are not. You might die at any time. [+ 1 Outsider]

Basically just borked marionette

Would need to be rewritten to work better, but was a concept that sounded fun

[turbid pumice]

Only the demon learns you

But I like it

[drowsy ravine]

Minion: You think you are an Outsider, but you are not. The Demon knows who you are. You might die at any time. [+ 1 Outsider]

(since that's how marionette words it)

[drowsy ravine]

It's as close to Marionette Tinker as you can get tbh

Which I might of been opposed to... Except Glitch is literally Magician Poppygrower.

[turbid pumice]

Yeah

Also not neighbouring

And also makes outsiders play more for evil

[drowsy ravine]

Yeah

Also makes some fun interactions

Minion Neutral is never told they're good when they die

Minion Obsessed can die with their "Obsession"

Minion Quisling won't be told they're evil when Surv dies

Minion Jester is just a bit silly

[drowsy ravine]

I was thinking of putting an "Illegal Cheats" section below cheater that lists what isn't allowed

This is what I have for now

Illegal Cheats: Falsely registering players as dead or alive, making good players evil, stopping players waking, altering daytime limits, disabling Fabled, and being lame...

Willing to add and remove whatever tbh

[turbid pumice]

Think it definetly needs to be clearer

[drowsy ravine]

What would you add?

[turbid pumice]

like in general

from were it is now

[drowsy ravine]

Wdym?

[drowsy ravine]

Like, what specifically do you think should be clearer?

And how would you word it?

[turbid pumice]

just laws in general

for the almencac

[drowsy ravine]

Like, the limits of cheats, moderations, and randomats?

Or

[turbid pumice]

more on cheats

the other are more up to the st

[drowsy ravine]

Well that's what this is, specifying illegal cheats

Unless you mean I should specify the legal ones too

[drowsy ravine]

Illegal Cheats:
Killing two or more players to make good automatically lose.
Taking away the ability to vote, nominate, or accuse.
Falsely registering players as dead or alive.
Making alternate win conditions.
Changing players alignment.
Altering daytime limits.
Disabling Fabled.

(I think the first rule specifically is the best one)

[drowsy ravine]

@ember rune What's your opinion on these being baseline rules for Cheater? Anything you would add?

[ember rune]

Changing Player alignment directly should be illegal, I agree, but changing character type to Outsider, and in doing so making an extra evil should not, but be accompanied by a Spirit of Ivory clause

Taking away the ability to vote, nominate, accuse is definitely too anti fun

However, you should consider what you would do if it is made that votes count for different weights instead

(Whether that’s intended as allowed with this rule in mind)

Agree with banning autowins, alt wincons

Agree with maintaining daylight and timing numbers

Disabling Fabled I agree with, however I think they should be able to introduce new Fabled, or simulate Fabled effects

(Again up to game-dependent reason allotted by the ST)

Faking death should be explicitly forbidden a la Zombuul

Definitely for the demon, up to you for the other character types

Vigormortis type deals I’d be interested in being allowed

And keeping non-demons secretly alive extends the game so it’s against the Cheater’s favour a bit

Notably, in conjunction with faking dead demon being not allowed, this automatically also means a minion granted the SW ability and appears to be dead appears to come back to life when they become the Demon

Which in my opinion is a perilous but not doomed situation for the evil team, and possibly a fun thing to intend, though I’d leave it to the players’ own discovery of it than suggest it

Oh

[ember rune]

I would add faking character and alignment changes, if that’s not assumed as hard rules of all botc

(As in telling someone they are now the Evil Fang Gu when in fact they are not)

[drowsy ravine]

To my knowledge that isn't the case, I may be wrong though. Zombuul that's fake dead can be pithagged into a new demon and not visibly revive, so I assume the same could be assumed for a fake dead SW becoming demon.

[drowsy ravine]

Agree with fake alignment changes, but fake character changes is funny.

Imagine being told your a good cheater, so you cheat but literally nothing happens

Pure comedy

[drowsy ravine]

Perfectly legal (Just Traitor and Minion aren't helped much)

[ember rune]

For sure, it’s an entirely different ruling set because that other situation has no explicit rule for demons appearing dead

[ember rune]

You know, for the purposes of this if it’s like NWC’s Brainwasher I think that’s pretty good lmao

Like it doesn’t interfere with your ability or ability prompts

So you might find something is wrong quite quickly

But it might affect how you approach it with a bit of uncertainty even if short lived

[ember rune]

Agreed, although someone nominating a dead player to skip and then dying to a dead Traitor would be an extremely niche and extremely funny moment

Especially considering why would they be dead in the first place? Vigilante?

Oh I guess with Randomat anything goes

[drowsy ravine]

Guess so

[ember rune]

Oh funnies

What about cheating a new player into the game

Or cheating (with consent from both sides) a substitute

[drowsy ravine]

One reason specifically to allow it is on the first run of the script #1112150803688460359 the demon Jugg and Minion had their abilities swapped. Lol

[ember rune]

lol

[drowsy ravine]

See no problem

[drowsy ravine]

Cheating in a traveler is hilarious

[ember rune]

Yessss

[drowsy ravine]

I think I would even allow specific special requests for people to be travelers

For instance if you asked me to ask Moll to travel, I'd ping him directly lmao

[drowsy ravine]

What changes should be made to randomat so it isn't so hard to split items from cheats?

[turbid pumice]

i think it is a big problem with cheater in general'

that it is hard to track

i think a player should learn a hint to what was cheated, in some shape or form

and it would be arbitrary in the case of it not being in play

to make it trackable

and items more fine to do jank stuff with

[drowsy ravine]

My only fear in that is I don't have faith to give good hints. I barely know what I'd do with a fisherman lol.

[drowsy ravine]

RANDOMAT (Fabled)
Gives each player a random weapon decided by the Storyteller, giving them the power to use a different ability once. The Demon learns three fake items.

Item examples:
Highnoon - your vote counts as three tomorrow
T Suitcase - you get an unused in play item
Blindgun - organ grinder day tomorrow

(still feel it could use a change, regardless if cheats give clues)

[mental dragon]

why keep the fake bluff items?

[drowsy ravine]

It was mainly so evils could have more hurtful items

They could be removed I guess if all items were made more neutral

[mental dragon]

I mean that there's no need for bluffs because all items are made up anyway

there's no set script for them

[drowsy ravine]

True

Honestly good point, as the bluff items weren't even used last game

#1133746832640573540

||and evil won so they weren't needed either||

[drowsy ravine]

Any thoughts on items being revealed when a player dies?

I'm not really sold on the idea but I considered it

[turbid pumice]

I really don't like it

[drowsy ravine]

Right

[turbid pumice]

Cause it outs evils

And outsiders like hell

And makes good not able to bluff items to fool the demon

[drowsy ravine]

I feel that all roles are at a point of functioning well, except specifically cheater with randomat.

I think I like every other interaction

Also

I thought about more fables, I don't want to add them since there's 5 already, but I'm putting them here for reference:

Traitor Tester: Imagine dutchess but a good can die if evil want it

Traitors Truce: Two good players know each others roles, being mad they're in a truce together can kill them.

(I might come back to these for #1124868552231485440 maybe...)

[turbid pumice]

I don't really understand them here, might also be cause Im not fully awake

[drowsy ravine]

They aren't really meant for this script tbh, just wrote them here for the sake of writing them down.

Oh btw

Next time I run Town Of Terror would you be interested in coST/playing?

[turbid pumice]

Probably costing

[drowsy ravine]

Ok

[drowsy ravine]

Lets say cheater kills 1 player, makes a minion gain the godfather ability, and makes a townie gain the virgin ability. What hint would you give to a player who consults?

[turbid pumice]

I would give, if a cheater is in play; two or more base game misinformation less abilities entered play last night

The key words are "base game" "misinformationless"

[drowsy ravine]

Where in the almanac would you put "cheater clues" btw? The cheaters description? A fable?

[turbid pumice]

The rest is fluff

[turbid pumice]

Could be a fabled, think it should be linked to the character tho

[drowsy ravine]

my only resistance to that is the cheater description is long already

[drowsy ravine]

It's 4 lines long while every other role is max 3 lines

So I'll probably make it a fable, if that's fine

Maybe I'll consolidate it someday, but for now it's too much for me to figure out

[turbid pumice]

Fair

[drowsy ravine]

NPC: Up to 3 players can consult the ST and receive a hint of what was cheated last night. If no cheats were made the hints are arbitrary.

How is this?

[turbid pumice]

Thats nice, then you can be a bit more vague

Or give evils some info

[drowsy ravine]

Ye, it gives them a little counter play

Like how evils can try to safe guard dutchess (at least I think that's how it would work)

[turbid pumice]

Less so I feel

[drowsy ravine]

Well yeah less so for this

[turbid pumice]

And I think it should have some more clause to make less "confirmed goodies" do ir

Cause that's sad

[drowsy ravine]

Each day, 3 players may choose to visit you. Each visitor learns a hint of what was cheated last night, but 1 gets false info. If no cheats were made hints are arbitrary.

Making it basically duchess

(not sure about it tbh)

[north plover]

hmmmmmm

[drowsy ravine]

Not sure how to make the hints fair for both sides

[north plover]

Good players get hints evil players get fisher advice, no player may go more than X number of times or after X triggers

that could work

[drowsy ravine]

Maybe a simple "each player can only get 1 hint"

[north plover]

That works

Save it for later potentially

[drowsy ravine]

So one trusted person can't repeatedly use it

[north plover]

Yeah

But then U gotta make it "up to 3"

[drowsy ravine]

Yea it is

or well for the first one

It is

NPC: Up to 3 players can consult the ST to receive a hint of what was cheated most recently. Each player can only receive a hint once. If no cheats were made the hints are arbitrary.

(this also buffs cheater a tiny bit since it gives them an excuse to consult during the day once)

Not a big buff but a buff nonetheless

[north plover]

Yeah

[drowsy ravine]

NPC: Players can consult the ST to receive a hint of what was cheated most recently. Each player can only receive a hint once. If no cheats were made the hints are arbitrary.

"Fun Fact: There's a bomb!"

[cedar bloom]

1. If the infected turns an outsider into a zombie, then does they change alignments? OR just become a good zombie?

2. An example of the Cheater's ability would be.. Pheonix is poisoned until dusk? What would be a good example except just poisioning someone?

[turbid pumice]

1. Good zombie, that would immedietly poison someone

2. For example making an evil chat, learning the grimoire, making broken send an announcement when they normally wouldn't, making someone revive to frame them as zombie, making your kills turn into zombies to frame infected, making a player survive execution once, making like 3 kills 2 of which are outsiders to frame juggernaut, killing 2 people when the outed evil player dies, more nichely moving players around the grim or changing people's character to fake a fabled affect

Just a few ideas I got

[turbid pumice]

Remove the up to 3

They can already have to limit their resources

So let them all consult on final day of they want

[drowsy ravine]

1. They just become zombie, their alignment does not change (kill good jester --> kill good zombie, kill evil quisling --> kill evil zombie, kill evil neutral --> kill good zombie)

2. Yeah that works, other good examples include: swapping two players abilities secretly, making an organ grinder, publicly enabling vortox, Killing three people, enabling a fable, inviting a traveler, learning players choices, etc.

[drowsy ravine]

Gotcha

[drowsy ravine]

Small change: made survivalist each night* instead of each night since all it can do N1 is mess up SK underling and some travelers

[cedar bloom]

I'm going to ST this soon, but I have one more question.
If the cheater chooses just one player to kill at night, like ordinary demons, is it cheating?

I'm asking this because if this is cheating, there might be some players who always try to accuse cheater in every game who dies at night

One more question sorry😅 when does the Assassin's target change?(written in bodyguard's ability)

[turbid pumice]

assassins ability says alive, so when their target dies for any reason

[turbid pumice]

only alive people can guess, and you don't have to say the cheat they did, just that they cheated

pretty sure

yeah it is

yeah it is

@drowsy ravine why is killing 2 players so good just looses banned again?

i know it should usually be blocked

but like i can see situations were i allowed it

especially timed deaths

or conditional deaths

cause my interpretation is that that would count

which i dont fully agree with

it just felt like a weird specification

disabling fabled?

cause you can fake them out

so i think disabling them should be fine

cause you already can do that stuff, and fake effects

also making an assassin is impossible

[drowsy ravine]

The cheater's existance is cheating, even if they do literally nothing during the night. (Does that answer your question?)

(and yes, a kill is a cheat since the Cheater can't actually kill without cheating. Oh and only living good players can accuse, that's important too.)

[drowsy ravine]

The only time doing nothing matters is with NPC, since players would get abitrary info

[drowsy ravine]

It's mainly to stop killing 2 players at final 4, but I agree timed and conditional deaths are reasonable to allow sometimes even with the rule.

[drowsy ravine]

It's mainly because if an ST puts in a fable they can't remove it, so letting cheater do it felt weird.

(also don't think cheater removing moderator, randomat, or NPC is a good thing)

[drowsy ravine]

I'm gonna ST a text game of this soon(ish) too so feel free to kibitz that when the time comes

[drowsy ravine]

Where were you STing it btw?

[cedar bloom]

On tts, with Korean users

[drowsy ravine]

Cool!

[drowsy ravine]

When you can, tell me how the game goes! I would love to hear the feedback.

[north plover]

Oh yes also strange advice never give a bodyguard who learned the arsonist was an assasins target the item "Deck of cards" allowing them to make 1 cheat while the demon is the infected who has an item that supports the infected but not the cheater

Like don't do that
yes I know thats strangely specific but

#1133746832640573540
Dont do that.

(I was the bodyguard )

[drowsy ravine]

table top sim?

[drowsy ravine]

Night Order and Character sheets kindly provided by Chum!

[drowsy ravine]

might change outsiders soon

Among a few other things

In particular make Neutral nicer and Obsessed meaner

And maybe change the second part of Phoenix

Again

maybe even gunslinger could use a small tweak

And perhaps Harlequin could double slap when outsiders get exed?

[turbid pumice]

obsessed should loose the turn evil thing tbh, and instead have something else

[turbid pumice]

that feels harsh, unless youre doing both which feels bad

think it could be evil players if you want the buff

and it feel like its fitting the already existing concept

[drowsy ravine]

Harle doesn't need a buff, I just wanted a reason to not exe obsessed D1

[drowsy ravine]

That's not really Obsesseds main problem

In my pov

[turbid pumice]

Nope, it's one of the scripts main problem

[turbid pumice]

Fair

Feels a lot like juggernaut then

Interacting with outsiders like that

[drowsy ravine]

Neutral Obsessed Phoenix Gunslinger

how could these be changed...

You are evil, you become good if you lose this ability. The Demon knows who you are. (Town knows you're in play?)

You start knowing a player. If they die, you die too. If nominated by them you become evil and a good player learns you're Obsessed. (make it not the d1 execution?)

If you die you revive at the start of the following night once. If you die twice, your good Townsfolk neighbors are sober and healthy. (make it trigger on first death?)

Each night, choose a player (not yourself): if they die tonight, the next time you die, you don't. (make it get info somehow?)*

[turbid pumice]

That makes neutral a lot worse, neutral has counter play at least

You start knowing a player, if they die you die too. If you die by execution, one player of your alignment dies tonight

And your good townsfolk neighbours are sober and healthy and can't malfunction (even if dead)

I don't see the big problem

[drowsy ravine]

Gunslinger doesn't need it you're prob right

I was just in the "town needs more info" mindset I guess

[turbid pumice]

yeah i know, its the thing since d1

maybe make the phoenix an empath for the night they die the first time

[drowsy ravine]

Yeah I was kind of thinking that

[drowsy ravine]

Or maybe they learn an alive role like a King?

[turbid pumice]

possibly

empath feels less confirming tho

and a reason for evils to keep them alive

even after knowing

[drowsy ravine]

Also for Neutral:

You are evil, you become good if you lose this ability. The Demon knows who you are. (Town knows you're in play)

I think Neutral is probably okayish

As is

It's an extra evil which is always strong tho

Like maybe town can learn neutral in play after 3/5 days or something arbitrary

Or perhaps: If evil outnumber the living good, all players learn you are in play?

[drowsy ravine]

Maybe (living evil outnumber living good)

[turbid pumice]

This is fine

It's on town if they can't deal with it before other players turn evil

This is the only one were good has counter play

If you wanna change stuff change the other roles so they don't turn evil as easily

[drowsy ravine]

Jugg maybe could be changed to care when outsiders are exed. If not, will likely leave as is.

[turbid pumice]

makes it stronger 🤷

[wet latch]

Why are there 6 fables?

[drowsy ravine]

Good question I'll be real

[wet latch]

?

[drowsy ravine]

I just had 6 fable ideas

There isn't much more of a reason than that

[drowsy ravine]

Could even make it: Each night*, choose a player: they die. If an Outsider dies, you may choose an additional player

So any outsider death means an extra jugg kill

Whether at night or day

Jugg prob doesn't need it tho lol

[drowsy ravine]

Changed Obsessed to "You start knowing a player. If they die, you die too. If you die by execution, a player of your alignment dies tonight."

It will probably just work better than the old one

Tho now that I've done this

BROKEN
If a good player turns evil, all players know. If the Demon chooses no one, they die, a Minion becomes the new Demon, and all players know

Might need a change?

Or maybe it can stay as is, not sure

[turbid pumice]

Tonight

[turbid pumice]

That feels fine

[drowsy ravine]

True that's probably more balanced

Funny enough, it means if jugg kills obsession it picks again

Which I somewhat like

As opposed to jugg killing obsession and losing an outsider

[vague crane]

Can you send links or files in a good quality for printing?

[drowsy ravine]

Suggest you ask @outer jacinth for those

[outer jacinth]

i can send the pdf for the sheets in a bit 👍

[drowsy ravine]

Are you planning to try this IRL?

[outer jacinth]

updated sheets + pdf

[turbid pumice]

could you send me the tool you use for this? 🙏

[outer jacinth]

i just make em on canva usually! will send you the details if you want, but also if you have an almanac for anything im happy to just plop it onto a sheet

[turbid pumice]

would love the details

[vague crane]

yes

[drowsy ravine]

I'd be super interested to know how it turns out

[drowsy ravine]

Also if you run it irl and have cheater as demon, I low key think you just give them the grim and let them do whatever is reasonable?

Not 100% on how to run irl cheater tho lol

[drowsy ravine]

How'd this go btw?

[drowsy ravine]

Might change obsessed from:

OBSESSED
You start knowing a player. If they die, you die too. If you die by execution, a player of your alignment dies tonight.

To

OBSESSED
You start knowing a player. If they die, you die too. If you die by execution, a good player dies tonight.

Mainly so turning evil via jester is less feels bad for evil

Though it may be fine as is, not sure

[drowsy ravine]

It's weird, I've tried to download, copy, and open these images in a new tab but they always become blurry

They look crystal clear in your message, so I've got no clue why it's like that

[outer jacinth]

hmm, weird

[turbid pumice]

Works fine for me on my phone at least

[drowsy ravine]

Perhaps... My phone is trash /j

[drowsy ravine]

#1181030090528800768 was fun

[drowsy ravine]

How did running this go btw? (if you did it)

[drowsy ravine]

woo

[drowsy ravine]

*jinxes

[pearl basalt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1031815607156490270/1148969672314720358/Jinxes_4.2.png
(To see in better quality, right click and open in browser, or download the image)

[drowsy ravine]

@turbid pumice I was considering making a change to Glitch that would turn "The Minions and Demon think you are a Minion." Into "The Demon thinks you are a Minion. " (making it work better in 1 minion games)

Since at the moment in 1 minion games they just know the Glitch

[turbid pumice]

Should be fine 🤷

It has magican like things of minions chatting immedietly giving the demon hint of them being minions

[drowsy ravine]

True...

Though minions immediately chatting will still hurt their bluffing in theory

Glitch can track whispers too

Though evil thinking you're evil is one of its things

Though there is the additional part anyone could claim to be demon

Doesn't have to be Glitch

Since Minions don't know demon at all

And Demon might think it's too risky to kill glitch

[drowsy ravine]

I think that is preferable to 1 minion games (or 2 minions with the Minion) where the minion just knows X is Glitch?

Not sure

[drowsy ravine]

I just had a thought

If Glitch publicly outs and says "I'm Glitch, everyone claim demon in whispers since minions will never know if you're telling the truth"

That could work

Since upon death demon learns minions

Minions still learn nothing

Okay I feel fine nerfing glitch lol

[drowsy ravine]

@north plover if you're staying awake wanna rate these changes to TOT Glitch?

[north plover]

My brain isnt exactly the best but sure

[drowsy ravine]

It'll be fine prob maybe

[north plover]

ok then

whatsup

[drowsy ravine]

Basically Glitch is: The Demon and Minions think you are a Minion. Minions do not know the Demon. If you die, the Demon learns who the Minions are that night.

And

I'm gonna make it:

The Demon thinks you are a Minion. Minions do not know the Demon. If you die, the Demon learns who the Minions are that night.

(basically just the minions no longer learn it)

[north plover]

maybe

but then the minions imediately chat with eachother and the demon catches on instantly

And besides just with the glitch existing the minion's hands are basically tied until the glitch is dead, an event they have very little control over, out of fear of executing the demon.

I think just overhauling it into "Instead of evil team info minions learn X number of non demons and demons learn X number of non minions"

Like a debuffed PG with no downsides for dying

[drowsy ravine]

The difference between Glitch and Magician is no matter what the Minions don't know demon

So if minions don't know the Glitch, it allows Glitch to claim demon

[north plover]

But if the demon sees two of their "minions" talking first thing, they can assume those are the two real ones, then demon whisper to get in contact.

[north plover]

At that rate if you want the glitch to claim both minion and demon- well congrats youve just remade magician...

[drowsy ravine]

Though in theory if anyone sees two people whisper

They could claim demon

[north plover]

But Demon Whisper

Sooooooooooooooooo

[drowsy ravine]

Fair, I usually don't allow them but fair

[north plover]

Debuffed PG might be better

[drowsy ravine]

One other reason for the change is to make Glitch useful in 1 minion games

Since as it was, the minion just knew who the glitch was

[north plover]

Minions have VERY LITTLE control over when the glitch dies, and most minions ONLY WORK if they have co-ordination with a demon

So id like to think that the "minions dont know demons" stat is the real problem

[drowsy ravine]

Fair, the demon does learn minions though

[north plover]

Do a limited extent

I really am not sure any kind of PG is working on this script

PG or magician

[drowsy ravine]

It basically poppygrowers minions and magicians the demon

[drowsy ravine]

Really?