secret thing

[junior knot]

like backseating in games is generally frowned upon

at least where i come from

[hollow oasis]

Me when TPK

“Please nom for me”

[sinful onyx]

f4 as f3 you know

[hollow oasis]

(The minion) “Nah fam”

[junior knot]

also i think being confirmed good is lowkey overrated

[hollow oasis]

And you killed someone

[junior knot]

actually

bc you can be good and still have the wrong world

[sinful onyx]

well you kill someone who town want to exe anyway

[junior knot]

and lead everyone down the complete wrong path bc you're confirmed good

[hollow oasis]

The game is still sped up

Especially if you killed a good player

[sinful onyx]

that's soo in hindsight

The same way you can't argue exeing a good player is bad means it shouldn't ve be done

if it's determined to be good from what's on the board then it is

looking at it in hindsight and belike "golem killed a good player bc town was on wrong path so golem is an outsider" is simply not true if it's a group informed decision
and also bc otherwise town spend an exe instead of a golem punch on it and it's worse

[hollow oasis]

Let’s take an 8p game

Golem punch

Good player dead

2 evils, 4 players left to TPK

It’s d1

[junior knot]

and d2 you are already at f4

[sinful onyx]

it's 5

[junior knot]

golem can't nom

[sinful onyx]

golem is still a player bud

[junior knot]

and is generally confirmed not demon

[sinful onyx]

golem good demon f3 isn't evil win

which is eh very important

[low umbra]

Me when I world build differently to the confirmed good virgin and I get exed in final 5 as the mayor and then my TPK world happens :/

[hollow oasis]

Not for the case of TPK

[hollow oasis]

Be less wrong

[sinful onyx]

but for the case of evil unable to tpk (minion dead through exe, vigor, imp pass, whatever)

[hollow oasis]

Golem is simply “TPK”

[sinful onyx]

town had 3 exe + golem

while in non golem town has 3 exe

[hollow oasis]

So yeah, it sucks with evil nightkills

Shocker

[sinful onyx]

which means as long as evil doesn't tpk, golem is budget +1 exe in 8 here

and with them confirmed

[hollow oasis]

Which is why golem is good with multikill demons

[low umbra]

Right but the issue here is that deathmod is important to make golem more of an outsider than usual

Accelerate. The. Game.

[hollow oasis]

Or say… a psycho that didn’t out yet

[sinful onyx]

actually i'll argue no bc with multikills, golem is more likely to have the +1 exe value

suppose 1 kill demon

golem in 7p, 9p, 11p does not grant extra town kill

[hollow oasis]

“X is the demon”

[sinful onyx]

but if evil has any sort of multi kill

[hollow oasis]

-this is a minion

They are bullshitting

(X is executed)

[sinful onyx]

idk, i guess info don't exist

[hollow oasis]

Shab kills 2 and wow it’s d2. 5 people alive.

[sinful onyx]

if town can't effectively reduce demon candidates from the outed evil bluffing golem and is wrong

i think it's totally skill issue

[hollow oasis]

Me when minions aren’t connected to demons by info

So this is why golem works with psychopath actually

-golem is not-in-play

The psychopath is bluffing it

[low umbra]

Golem should be an outsider by losing agency and low-ish info so the game acceleration is more expensive than the extra good-directed kill

But then acceleration is super important for golem to stay alive at smaller player counts

I think script building is important cause golem can be a TF but… just build scripts better or don’t include golem

[hollow oasis]

Psycho goes around town getting info on “who’s a good kill”

they don’t kill the first day

They nominate someone

They don’t die

“I’m the golem what’s this bullshit”

They get them executed

Outed evil now

But hey, got an execution

-insert multikill demon

[sinful onyx]

you see

if someone golem fail

[hollow oasis]

And then they start swinging

[sinful onyx]

the golem is like better exe

[hollow oasis]

Golems aren’t demon bluffs like ever

[sinful onyx]

or are they

if you never exe into fake golems then they would be

[hollow oasis]

They’re literally outed evil after you kill the “demon”

[low umbra]

The agency outsider making it harder for the evil team to exert agency cause they’re bluffing it?

Never.

[hollow oasis]

And like

Yeah you’re

You’re gonna kill the golem

If you don’t win

killing the golem, meanwhile, does not out the other side as evil.

Because the golem could be a minion.

[sinful onyx]

which is ok bc in both worlds town has upper hand

[hollow oasis]

and they probably are

[hollow oasis]

Unless “being outed evil” is fine

Psychopath moment

“Oh I’m outed evil? Talk to the axe” is the best use of a golem bluff

[sinful onyx]

if you just want to bluff something and get exed d1 golem is not even a must pick

[hollow oasis]

The point is to get a free exe on a (hopefully good) player

Maybe a boomdandy

[sinful onyx]

the point is exeing into the "demon" is not good strat for town especially on ur said psychopath script

[hollow oasis]

You execute the psychopath

[sinful onyx]

well if town exe the psychopath bluffing golem first

[hollow oasis]

Or the golem

[sinful onyx]

then again golem isn't a must pick for that

or rather in that case a golem performs better than a tf in fact

if someone claims it and get exed d1

[sinful onyx]

Aside from roles, i think being unpredictable/leaving more possibilities as ST is overrated

I mean having more things that can happen is great but like

that doesn't mean one as an ST should treat "(de)confirming worlds"as inherently bad

which is a common misinterpretation and malpractice

remember that "(de)confirming worlds" is what more than half of the characters in the bag does

and that's enough to say it's not a thing to rlly avoid

[hollow oasis]

That’s not a TF

Assuming without the golem town was going to execute them anyway, the golem changes nothing except the golem gets executed

[dusty thistle]

Artist hits waaaaaaay under it's theoretical weight class because of incompetence and susceptibility to leading to massive swings away from the correct world if it's not used properly.

Marionette is a hilarious case where it punches both under and over it's weight depending on how experienced the group is.

Golem is a townsfolk until you realize what nerdy said then it's an outsider until you realize you can punch yourself to be a self-nomming virgin on most golem scripts.

And vizier is weaker than the community consensus!

[warped urchin]

Idk man the community considers the vizier pretty weak

I'm not sure its possible to go lower

[barren sun]

Something with a Fang Gu that I can't recall. Idk I disconnect like 10 seconds into the game. Greedy Whalebuffet is probably better anyway

is OP

[pseudo fulcrum]

that's actually a really good point

[fiery sleet]

I keep seeing people say ojo is garbo, but it's performed on par with other demons in my playgroup

[dusty thistle]

Exactly. Viz just sucks that much.

[fiery sleet]

What if vizier was just not immediately revealed and that's the only change 🙏

[dusty thistle]

It becomes a psychopath

[fiery sleet]

Psycho if it didn't give +1 kills

[dusty thistle]

Psycho if it confirmed players

It's pretty much the same, most likely

Psycho stops an exe every two kills. Having double the speed for confirming players is probably a fair trade.

[fiery sleet]

Psycho has a 2/3 chance to live fwiw

Survives ties

[simple crystal]

I experience a similar thing with Philo too in terms of not being used well: as an ST it's scary to put in the bag bc good can do anything with it... and then they wait until n4 and die the same night they use it.

[tough silo]

Nope man i think vizier its fun if you are hightly active in nominations and hightly frame players you "save" by not executing. I dont like that they have to get killed if they are going into final 3 thou.

Vizier is fun is you are ragebaiting everyone

[tough silo]

It is a Cerenovus without the madness, you just decide if town waste a day because they nominate confirmed good players.

[fiery sleet]

You also can't be executed

Or rather can't die from it

[dusty thistle]

Nobody chops into psychopaths unless they have a death wish.

Nobody experienced that is

Effectively, you're a psychopath

[tough silo]

A hightly effective at wasting timer instead of being more useful like psychopath

It hits a middle ground between psychopath and cerenovus.

But instead it steals their worst traits directly, for ragebaiting and being outed evil doing evil stuff.

[dusty thistle]

Meanwhile outed viz narrows worldbuilding to the point it's a thrall

Quiet viz basically a forced silent psycho, and I'd prefer psycho more in most situations

[tough silo]

In what world does it narrow down worlds thou

Yeah its outed minion but it doesnt directly confirm what demon and who it is.

[dusty thistle]

IM A MINION, DON'T BOTHER SOLVING FOR ME!!! NO I'M NOT GOING TO SPEED UP THE GAME TO HELP EVIL!

YOU HAVE MORE TIME TO SOLVE THE REST OF MY TEAM NOW! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA, I'M SO EEEEEEEEVIL

[tough silo]

Depends on the script really.

[dusty thistle]

Like any outed minion, you've opened yourself up. The trade-off with psychopath is you get speed. Town can effectively deny the speed boost of vizier, hence why it's worse.

[tough silo]

One vote its all it takes.

[dusty thistle]

Yeah, town tends to watch that if there's a vizier

Having been the vizier, I'd know.

The best thing I did was scare town a bunch when the al-had picked me going into f3

[tough silo]

I think Vizier solo minion its bad but as a second minion omg so gooood

[dusty thistle]

There was a 2nd minion that game.

[tough silo]

Idk man Vizier really ask for a very especific way to be playing to even be considered effective. Depends a lot on the group too!

[dusty thistle]

Vizier is such a fun concept. Shame good players insist on being bulletproof.

[tough silo]

Thats why politician/zealot and ogre exist thou. Even with the jinxes they can help a lot the vizier

[fast anchor]

this TB-like... yeah this is pretty bad

[tough silo]

Princess is underated

[next marlin]

I see the vision

[tough silo]

Acrobat outsider

[pseudo fulcrum]

it honestly wasn't terrible until I got to Acrobat

[tough silo]

Acrobat townfolk is underrated guys

Acrobat its hyper strong

[dusty thistle]

This is an old script

[grizzled marsh]

Frankenstein's mayor, played it once barely after discovering the game and twice recently. Why are every townsfolks blank tokens?

[vague pier]

Played that teensy recently after seeing an old message of Axo saying "zombuul has interesting interactions here" or smth like that
Im never trusting Axo's recommendations again

[next marlin]

script recommendations have a statute of limitations

[vague pier]

evidently

i trusted it given every other recommendation in the message were still round in rotation

[supple dirge]

If you leave a script out in the sun too long in goes bad

[karmic rose]

Still want a non-Stedway teensy that feels like Clocktower

[tough silo]

There are plenty thou

[next vault]

?

[next vault]

You see, knowing info is overated

That script should have a Duchess!!

(Ignore )

[coarse fern]

Princess is underrated. It’s giving great tempo for something town would be doing anyway

[brave wasp]

mine was race to the bottom, still peak script

[tough silo]

The OG everybody f* run

[junior knot]

Organ grinder was on everybody fucking run?

[tough silo]

Original i mean

[low umbra]

Also the less intimidating one too. Cause some people don’t like heretic ig

[dusty thistle]

[1/15] Ruin a popular script (custom or base 3) by adding non-bootlegger lorics, preferably as few as possible.

[chilly trellis]

Worst case scenario: BMR, stormcatcher favors the tea lady
Funniest case scenario: BMR, stormcatcher favors the gambler

[junior knot]

A grim chorus plus bigwig

[dusty thistle]

Why does stormcatching the tea lady ruin BMR?

[junior knot]

BMR +tor

[junior knot]

Can’t get below f4 as evil

Three immortal goods

[chilly trellis]

stormcaught tea lady can kinda just end the game if you pull off a successful tea lady

[dusty thistle]

Oh. Right.

[junior knot]

Zenomancer tpot?

[dusty thistle]

Anyway I put zenomacer on CC.

[vernal tiger]

dog this is just good

[dense moat]

I will ruin Harold Holt's Revenge by using the Stormcatcher to favor the Damsel

[dusty thistle]

I just thought of a really nasty one. Tor on CC

[next marlin]

that was my first thought but I wasn't gonna self promote

[finite wigeon]

Most Leviathan scripts become quite bad with Tor

[dense moat]

I dare you to make one that isnt

/j.

[finite wigeon]

I think a Leviathan script that doesn't suck with Tor is one where Tor doesn't really do anything

[hollow oasis]

TPOT+Hindu

[uneven field]

I consistently see people underestimating the usefulness of Harpy

and marionette

vizier isn't "significantly more powerful" per se, but it's worth noting that while it's just an okay minion, it's severely underrated in that everyone seems to think it's a bad minion

[next marlin]

Fortune Teller is weaker than commonly presented, but this isn't especially unpopular (i.e. it being one of the weaker demonfinders is reasonably widely believed)
Savant's strength is mainly a consequence of a bunch of things associated with the role (its tendency to be soft confirmed much more often than info townsfolk usually are + its strength majorly increasing with each day it lives), in and of itself it's complex enough that in many games it punches well below its weight class

(because people don't really like trying to solve savant info and if a savant hides too long and outs a bunch of info at once it tends to resolve to a blank token when people tune the info out)

Dreamer is dramatically overestimated by "the median botc player" (i.e. actual community consensus and not weird theorists) mainly because most people don't play around n1 dreamer

[barren sun]

I don't remember the name but that one popular solo-Levoathsn script + Tor

[barren sun]

Assassin overrules SC though

[fast anchor]

It's intentionally ambiguous

Both of them are equally definitive in their ruling — it's ST discretion as to whether or not the Storm Catcher beats the Assassin or vice versa

[dusty thistle]

I've mostly seen it ruled it doesn't.

[fiery sleet]

SnV with zenomancer: because they didn't already have enough nonsense to deal with

[fiery sleet]

I love harpy, top 3 favorite minion for me

BMR with hindu also gotta be up there cuz it's BMR. Also the Travellers are Matron, Voudon, Bishop, The Honorable Judge, and Apprentice which is funny because you can be reincarnated as the same role

[low umbra]

Harold Holt’s Revenge?

That would be kind of anti-Tor (which is the best thing for a Levi script in Tor) cause there are so many distinct roles

[uneven field]

crazy that tor is at its best when you barely have to worry about decoding tor

it's almost like it sucks severely

[tough silo]

Bruhhhhhh

Tor + Leviathan is bad because you aint knowing what you are after the end

[fallow rapids]

yeah Tor sucks

[uneven field]

severely

[fallow rapids]

turns out, when you take a game balanced and designed around uhhhh

knowing what team you are playing for

and stop doing that

you get a bad game

hell even Mafia/Werewolf gets this one right

come on that's so awful

[uneven field]

I've been so disappointed with the loric drops

[fallow rapids]

Tor is better if you just give the evil team basic starting info hell nah why did you explicitly say no to that

it's kinda baffling design

[uneven field]

we started off mid and fell very hard very fast

[cyan reef]

Tor might be my favorite Loric so far, though Pope might outdo that, not sure

[warped urchin]

Nobody is forcing you to interact with them?

[cyan reef]

which isn't saying much because most Loric isn't for me, but still

[warped urchin]

Just dont play loric games if you dont want to

[uneven field]

doesn't mean I can't be disappointed

[warped urchin]

When knaves loric

🙏

[fallow rapids]

i am disappointed because i would like a lot of these lorics if they were tweaked slightly to the left

but a lot of them miss the mark significantly

[uneven field]

I don't care for this new age idea of not being allowed to bemoan anything, complaining is a natural cathartic human impulse

[fiery sleet]

I definitely agree that the made-as-loric lorics are a lot worse than the converted-fabled lorics (bootlegger, gardener, stormcatcher)

[cyan reef]

I like that the Loric characters exist, but for the most part, they have that homebrew feel to them that for the most part makes me only want to rarely interact with them

[fiery sleet]

Stormcatcher is the only one I really look at for normal scriptbuilding

[uneven field]

"just don't interact with them if you don't like them" I'm not, but I still get to have opinions about them

[cyan reef]

yeah, it's fine to be disappointed in things and to express that

(even though I think Tor is one of the better ones 🙂 )

[fallow rapids]

i am mildly annoyed because i've predicted the loric drops like twice via homebrew collection

and i just see my draft scraps pulled up as actual characters

[uneven field]

luckily it seems like the community buy and large isn't actually using them, so I'm not going to suffer from the wizard mania problem of "suddenly you can't join a single game without this on the script"

but I'm still disappointed to the extent that, since this is the current content drop, it means nothing I actually care for will be released for a long while

[fallow rapids]

wizard must've been so annoying for the people who hate wizard

at least i joined this server after wizard

[uneven field]

I like wizard but I empathise with the people who rightfully complained about wizard mania at the time

[cyan reef]

I always kind of thought that people were likely way overhyping whatever new character type we were going to get...some of the predictions were really wild and rarely seemed practical

[uneven field]

I think a lot of us were just hyped because they're green

[fallow rapids]

i thought it was going to be “fabled but for accessibility reasons”

[uneven field]

that's already fabled

[fiery sleet]

I mean yeah, part of that was how TPI advertised it as "this is a new character category that creates weird problems. You love stormcatcher? Just wait and see what we have in store."

[cyan reef]

yeah, several of the Fabled are already explicitly for accessibility

[pastel prism]

isn't the entire point of Fabled for accessibility

[cyan reef]

well, at the time, we didn't have this bit of info

[fallow rapids]

the thing is they also proclaimed that you could add it to any script for instant fun

[cyan reef]

just that a new character type was being worked on

[uneven field]

most, now that they've been redefined as problem solvers

[fallow rapids]

no Sentinel exists

[fiery sleet]

Well some of them solve other problems (like Fiddler)

[uneven field]

ferryman should be a loric

[fiery sleet]

wrong reply sorry

[uneven field]

if gardener is a loric ferryman should be a loric

and it would be literally the best one too

[cyan reef]

Ferryman is designed as a kind of accessibility thing, to be friendly towards new players

I don't think that's actually the best use of it, but that's the idea

[uneven field]

so is gardener to a certain extent

[dusty thistle]

I agree with the take on harpy. It's a really scary character.

[uneven field]

I use ferryman as a loric

[fallow rapids]

the active amount of Lorics this is correct for is 0

[pastel prism]

big wig?

[uneven field]

tentacle yuri was a ferryman loric script before lorics were announced

[fallow rapids]

my first Big Wig TB ended day 1 due to saint spy

[fiery sleet]

Yeah it's like, moderately defensible for bigwig, which was what they were showing off at the time

[cyan reef]

yeah, I think describing Loric as "put it on (almost) any script" was a bit of a miss

[fallow rapids]

🎉

[pastel prism]

i do think Hindu's pretty fine to slap onto a script

[fallow rapids]

Hindu is unironically goodsided af

[cyan reef]

I'm gonna try Hindu with Extension Cord

[uneven field]

to be clear I was a little underwhelmed by big wig when it first came out, but if they were all consistently of the same quality as big wig then I'd be way less disappointed

[dusty thistle]

I'm starting to realize most lorics are.

[cyan reef]

I was very excited for Big Wig, I found the actual gameplay to be quite underwhelming

[uneven field]

like, at least big wig is actually usable

[fallow rapids]

Storm Catcher is not

[fiery sleet]

Yeah I think all except bigwig

[dusty thistle]

And stormcatcher

[pastel prism]

what about pope

[fiery sleet]

Stormcatcher def leans goodsided, but can be mitigated with scriptbuilding

[fallow rapids]

Pope is nothing sided because Pope makes the game more boring

[dusty thistle]

Bigwig actually leans evil sided without good scriptbuilding.

[cyan reef]

throwback to my favorite BotC clip https://www.youtube.com/shorts/TaKDpb_KUA0

[fiery sleet]

Unless it's like stormcaught drunk

[uneven field]

pope is like "ah, finally, werewolf"

[dusty thistle]

Gardener leans in whichever direction the ST pleases.

[fallow rapids]

yeah let's just remove one of the key aspects of the game so that evils can claim whatever the hell they want and the Storyteller can too

[cyan reef]

(well, my favorite BotC clip that isn't from my own channel 😉 )

[pastel prism]

pope also expands scriptbuilding potential a lot imo

[fallow rapids]

well

[fiery sleet]

We already have pixie

[uneven field]

we can finally have a script that's just kazali, butler, and a couple of minons

[pastel prism]

we can finally have Oops All (Insert character here)

[cyan reef]

I've given the briefest of thoughts as to whether or not any Teensyville whatsoever (or something close to one) could work in a full player game with Pope 🙂

[fallow rapids]

Butler Legion,

Socials Only, No Townsfolk, Final Destination: Neutral Game

[fiery sleet]

Sounds like a very fun and interesting script full of rich character interactions and deduction

[cyan reef]

the answer is probably no, but, what if...

[fallow rapids]

the year is 20XX this is the best rated script on botcscripts2.org

[uneven field]

pope "expands script building potential" in the same way an egg left out for two weeks in the summer sun "expands cooking potential"

[uneven field]

there are more scripts now, they are all bad

[fallow rapids]

as the homebrewer with the only NPC collection in this server before we had more than like 2 added lorics i took the “must work if you slap it on any script” incredibly seriously and it's a shame it's not in practice

because you have to actually, idk, think about the repercussions it has

[pseudo fulcrum]

To be clear, "Expands script building potential" isn't referring to joke scripts

[pastel prism]

yeah

[fallow rapids]

yeah it refers to the scripts where you don't have enough good

townsfolk

[pseudo fulcrum]

it's a serious comment talking about how you can keep the feeling of a script without having to dilute it by adding filler characters to reach 13/4/4/4

a full sized LuF was brought up in #speculation-and-spoilers as now being possible due to Pope

[fallow rapids]

#1421095266504937522 message

[fiery sleet]

Except that pope can't keep the feeling of playing a game with social deduction bc now anyone can claim anything and the only way to disprove it is direct role/alignment checkers

[uneven field]

I have a script that's missing some townsfolk and I'm still just going to wait for the next townsfolk drop rather than fuck my script

[fallow rapids]

Pope actively removes one of the baseline facts of building worlds

like completely disintegrates it

your script DOES NOT WORK if you add pope

[uneven field]

dirty bandaid on a shotgun wound

[fallow rapids]

i made a loric to solve the exact problem pope tries to solve literally a month ago and i can tell you right now i had exactly Pope as one of the worse drafts

[uneven field]

I can't believe you named a character this lmao

[fallow rapids]

all Aesop Tales lorics are named after an Aesop Fable

[uneven field]

"Introducing: The Fa#@£&"

[fiery sleet]

The fahashateuroand?

[uneven field]

I can't say it on the server but I'm allowed to say it in real life

[low umbra]

Me when I’m the demon and:

• don’t know it so kinda happy to die
• Don’t know my team so accidentally kill them
• Oopsies my non-waking on n1 has outed me as the demon because it resulted in exactly 3 demon candidates

[uneven field]

also that's not a euro

[fallow rapids]

Most Townsfolk are the same character. solves the evil bluff thing, creates a interesting new dynamic that is not seen in base, and doesn't get happen to disintegrate any basic worldbuilding facets dkshfkshdjdgksj

and guess what it's 60% shorter

[uneven field]

€ this is a euro
£ this is a pound

[fiery sleet]

Epic American lack of world knowledge exposed

[fallow rapids]

if you buy weights in the UK is it by £/lb

[pastel prism]

can "most" townsfolk mean all townsfolk

[fallow rapids]

no

[uneven field]

that's where the saying pound for pound comes from

[low umbra]

Ooo interesting. Hmm…

[fallow rapids]

Most means more than half but at least one straggler, preferably more

[low umbra]

It’d be the other way around, right?

Mass/currency

[fallow rapids]

uh kilogrammes per dollar

yeah other way round

[uneven field]

by the way there's a grammatical error in the first example

[fallow rapids]

ouh

yeah that's really obvious

[pastel prism]

i'll just say it, i'm currently working on a Pope script that has Alchemist as the only Townsfolk and like 16 Minions, and it is meant to be (semi-)serious

[dusty thistle]

I've actually seen it in both ways.

[pastel prism]

point and laugh at me

:D

[dusty thistle]

Mass/money and money/mass

[fallow rapids]

i think i cut out some useless clauses and didn't bother to reread

ill fix it

[dusty thistle]

It depends on if it cost more than 1 unit per mass unit.

[uneven field]

semi doing a lot of heavy lifting there

pound for pound

pound for pound, this is the cheapest brand of minced beef they sell

[fiery sleet]

oops all alsaahirs (the game will take 4 hours)

[fallow rapids]

Alsaahir Legion

literally gambling

[uneven field]

see how the pope is only being used for sin

[low umbra]

Yeah actually now that I think about it, both ways have uses

But also in the context, the former was a more accurate description imo

[fallow rapids]

yeah because it sucks for virtue

[fiery sleet]

https://tenor.com/view/truth-supernova-super-truth-nova-true-morgan-freeman-sephiroth-gif-4644219165557616305

[fallow rapids]

okay

[uneven field]

exactly

[fallow rapids]

maybe it works if there's a counterpart loric that duplicates minions, and we have Oops! All Psychopaths

definitely virtuous scriptbuilding right here

[uneven field]

I just want the loric drops to end, TPI I loved the monthly real character drop so much 😭

I don't want green clocktower anymore, I take it back, I take it back!

[fallow rapids]

orang cloktwih

[low umbra]

Yeah. I haven’t seen an application of any of the loric that I’ve personally enjoyed. except for Zenomancer

[uneven field]

no more colours

[low umbra]

True, more minions would be neat

[uneven field]

zenomancer is the one that I think people like the most, but I hate it

[fallow rapids]

me when it's 30XX and i draw the Transparent token with no ability text

[fiery sleet]

Zenomancer is the only one of the "funny ones" that I think actually succeeds at being funny

[fallow rapids]

oh wait ...

[uneven field]

do you think by 30XX we'll have the barrow fog

[junior knot]

Wait so what’s a quid then

[fiery sleet]

By 30XX we'll have this character:
(Demon)

Each night*, choose a player, they die. Good players don't know their characters, but you do.

[junior knot]

We had the barrow fog.

Because of people we can’t have nice things

[fallow rapids]

the Barrow Fog is dysfunctional and we know it, but we imagine falsehoods for safekeeping our overwrought hope

ugh i have to release an npc tomorrow but this one is kinda undercooked

wait till TPI releases the exact same thing i frantically discarded in my notes file seriously

[uneven field]

like, eventually, when Disney-Netflix-Nestle-Meta buys blood on the clocktower and starts churning out an endless torrent of slop, and we have a botc battle pass and a botc TV show, do you think then we'll have the barrow fog?

[fiery sleet]

By then we'll have the irl head trauma to make you forget info characters /hj

[fallow rapids]

at least give me a superhero fanfiction with poor diction first

[uneven field]

I've already got head trauma

the weird blemish on my forehead in my self portrait is not a drawing error

[fiery sleet]

this will be real in 30XX

[lost thistle]

whats todays question again

[fiery sleet]

Ruin a base 3/popular custom by adding a loric

[zenith lotus]

^

[warm gate]

Night-Vision Goggles + Pope (doubling only Bounty Hunters)

[uneven field]

any base 3, any loric

storm catcher, gardener, big wig exceptions

[fiery sleet]

1/16: What keyword would you add to the game if you could?

[junior knot]

High 😉

[lost thistle]

keyword registering as dead but actually being alive

[junior knot]

Did you mean: zombuul ?

[barren sun]

Morning and afternoon

[finite wigeon]

"Protected", easy

[junior knot]

Genuine answer prob something like absolute or genuine or smthg for global state

[fallow rapids]

sister keyword, affected

as the foil to “safe”

[low umbra]

‘Arbitrary’ I think would be a useful keyword to have

Maybe the intention behind not using it is that ST decisions aren’t truly arbitrary and the ability texts as they are now are meant to highlight that, but it would help with simplifying kazali and typhon’s setup abilities, plus ‘arbitrary players die’ can be for an Ojo miss, and these were just uses off the top of my head

And then ‘arbitrary’ is made a keyword where it is a proxy for ‘ST chooses’ or ‘ST choice’

Also, the pit-hag already uses ‘arbitrary’ for a demon change, so I think those other use cases aren’t that opposing to current uses of the word. Maybe just me, idk

[keen crescent]

"Duplicates". It kinda already exists, in pope, but it would be nice if VI was reworded to include it, phrased something like [up to 3 duplicate VIs]. Would be nice to make it clear that the extra VIs cannot add yet more VIs. Mostly, I'd wanna see this for a particular #speculation-and-spoilers character (iykyk).

[fallow rapids]

?

I think why Ojo, Typhon, and Kazali are like that are due to character restrictions

they‘re fine worded as they are

but yeah arbitrary is a keyword, but the way you use it isn’t how it works

[fallow rapids]

nah, Big Wig is awkward with all the base in different ways

and Storm Catcher doesn’t work with a lot of the characters in the base scripts

-# Gardener is basically a Fabled so of course it works!

[low umbra]

So why, in your opinion, doesn’t align with how lot/kaz or ojo work? I feel like it does

[fallow rapids]

i mean ig i‘m just really used to [+? to -? Outsiders]

Ojo being changed to “deaths are arbitrary tonight” (Pit-Hag text) is respectable though

probably better, but this is just a character text change

not exactly any new keyword options

[low umbra]

Yeah agreed, after seeing pit-hag and shug, arbitrary isn’t a new keyword, I guess the different applications are still cool though

[foggy grotto]

this is a few days old but i recently stumbled across this script again so wanted to share it as it was my first custom i ever played

rolled witch and it was a d1 demon execution

[lucid crag]

Midnight

after dusk somewhere right before/after demons

[next marlin]

midnight used to be a keyword and it meant "when the demon kills"

[valid garden]

I tend to have something funny in mind, usually a riff on something, like "The Wizard of Austin, TX", "30-50 Feral Dodents", "Penn & Teller's Shithead Clocktower"

[foggy grotto]

1/18 What’s your favorite thing you’ve seen in #fan-creations?

[supple dirge]

The 3d Vizier Crown by Xephan #fan-creations message

[lucid crag]

@ivory ibex's tb snv and bmr drawings

[sinful onyx]

my creations, unironically

[fiery sleet]

These are amazing holy shit

[uneven field]

this is amazing

[fiery sleet]

1/19: What is each character doing for Ravenswood Bluff game night?

[tough silo]

Tea Lady: Self Explanatory

[fiery sleet]

also self explanatory

They will join TL for chill puzzles & tea with and

[supple dirge]

[uneven field]

is running a game of blood on the clocktower

[dusty thistle]

(they're screwing up the rules of a different social deduction game)

and are also co-sting a game of BOTC, but they actually know what they're doing.

[finite wigeon]

......

[lost thistle]

“hey everyone who wants to play the campaign for north africa: the desert war 1940-1943”

[fiery sleet]

isn't playing but just walking around commenting on games, accidentally leaking the cards in peoples' hands

[lost thistle]

nobody has joined

[barren sun]

Shows up uninvited, no one really likes that guy

[versed junco]

is running an opposing game

nobody has joined

[dusty thistle]

[next vault]

I We want to play X (it's actually the same guy with 7 alt accs and one guy who's been truman'd)

[coarse fern]

helping

[fallow rapids]

arrives early to help set up the room for everyone
arrives early to pester Pacifist for everyone

it's yuri, your honour

[uneven field]

no I'm not making a drunk joke, I just put down what I do when my friends have a game night and attributed it to the character that represents me quite easily

I would have written instead but that seems too weirdly specific

[finite wigeon]

yeah that Politician joke set up has too much risk

is setting up a game of Risk though

[low umbra]

making an arrangement with the DM to place themselves as the BBEG so that they can ‘get a feel of what it would be like to be evil’

[next vault]

Guys I swear this is how we play in my house
Guys I swear this is how we play in my house
Guys I swear this is how we play in my house
...

[fiery sleet]

Gonna take 2 questions in a row if no one else has anything

1/20: What is each character's favorite sport/physical game?

loves tag (and will hunt down to make them "It")

[next vault]

hunting

[lost thistle]

The Honorable Judge

[versed junco]

Not entirely sure how to take this one

[barren sun]

idk how y'all call it in English but the chair game

Hide and seek

[supple dirge]

hot Dog Eating competition

[next vault]

is that big eye from the staring contest episode in Regular Show

[barren sun]

Knife throwing

Axe throwing

Drinking party games

[next vault]

Each time someone says to read your ability backwards, drink. You are now the Sailor.

[versed junco]

musical chairs?

[barren sun]

Yep

[fiery sleet]

Duck Duck Goose (but hardcore)

[barren sun]

London bridge

[uneven field]

toxic yaoi

[junior knot]

Sounds like bullying

[karmic rose]

[1/21] Which character was your favorite when you first started Clocktower, and how has your opinion of it changed with time?

[hollow oasis]

Musical chairs?

[hollow oasis]

Legion to Legion baby

love the damn thing

I just hate every single interaction it has with any character ever

except like

~45 of them

[junior knot]

thats enough for like, a script

unless >20 of those are demons

[fiery sleet]

When I first started, spy was the coolest thing ever

It still is, but I also discovered vigormortis which is even cooler

[hollow oasis]

demons don't count

[junior knot]

you like the legion vortox interaction

[hollow oasis]

not right now

[junior knot]

?

[hollow oasis]

is going to be my official stance until further notice

[coarse fern]

I used to be a Tea Lady fan and I am still a Tea Lady fan it’s just been overshadowed by something far better

[junior knot]

?

[vague pier]

only just started clocktowering but i guess fortune teller was appealing
now it's Amne, i like the puzzle aspect of amne guesses
the one oops all amne game i played was easily one of my favourites because of it

[junior knot]

I just think its neat

[hollow oasis]

the answer is golem

[junior knot]

oh ok yeah

right my b

forgor

[vague pier]

TF - FT > Amne
Outsider - Drunk > Moonchild
Minion - Poisoner > Assassin
Demon - lol Imp > Ojo

[hollow oasis]

I do know my least favorite character when I started Clocktower

Engineer

Nowadays it's

Fearmonger/Zealot/CL/BH/Clockmaker (pick one)

[junior knot]

I used to love lycan

but they murdered my boy

[junior knot]

are these for the legion interaction or standalone hatred?

[hollow oasis]

standalone

BH works with legion

so does CL

[junior knot]

debatable

also highly debatable

[hollow oasis]

it does

add another TF

wow

game saved

everyone claps

[karmic rose]

I'm not sure I have (or ever have had) a favorite character, tbh

[hollow oasis]

valid

[vague pier]

Oh we can do that

I have no faves, maybe after 100 more games of clocktower i'll get an opinion

[hollow oasis]

make it legion

it's unhealthy

[junior knot]

this is what we in the business of good ideas, call not one

😄

[hollow oasis]

I need the wail emoji

[junior knot]

you should play exclusively legion games until you get stockholm syndrome

[hollow oasis]

I haven't even played that many legion games btw

like

15 (including STing)

[junior knot]

arent you like the permast though

[hollow oasis]

no

[junior knot]

oh nvm

[hollow oasis]

dude I don't play IRL

I play like

online

for IVT? sure I'm permaST

[junior knot]

ew you play with strangers online?

[hollow oasis]

that's because "The Vision" is weird for IVT

[junior knot]

what a weirdo

/j

[hollow oasis]

I clocked the same for you when you said the first message

[junior knot]

which one

[hollow oasis]

ew

[junior knot]

oh

[hollow oasis]

you must play with strangers online

(insert doakes)

[junior knot]

i tried it

socials are too weird

so now im kinda exclusively livetext atm

[lean isle]

Alchemist felt really cool. Still think it's cool idea, but not favorite anymore.

Math was confusing and meh, but now I think it's still a bit confusing but pretty fun.

[pseudo fulcrum]

I used to love Al-Hadikhia because I love the prisoner's dilemma (and I still love both) but then Hermit came out and it made me enjoy reading scripts the most I'd ever had but then Big Wig came out and you can guess why I love that one

[modern plume]

My favorite starting out was Savant .
Opinion on Savant today: Still my favorite.

One of the most versatile information roles. With a correct understanding of mechanics and informational content, STs can balance Savant's power with the right combination of statements.

I do find many STs do make what I find to be mistakes with the Savant, even if not mistakes according to the almanac; I have my own sort of guidelines for how to run the Savant.

[versed junco]

My incredibly specific introduction to Clocktower was watching a video on the social deduction game Feign which had a role called Insane which was just the Drunk, and being a Town of Salem player, thinking being able to be wrong but not evil was the best thing since sliced tp/lo on me. So when I checked the comments and saw someone comparing it to Blood on the Clocktower, I did a little research, read a little all of the wiki over the course of a two hour car ride, and had a grand old time.

Now? Yeah Drunk's really cool

[tough silo]

Interesting! I like to know more about these guidelines thou hehe

[next vault]

Devi's Advocate, my first exposure to BOTC was this NRB video

https://youtu.be/U7GwZExOj0g?si=7XMrKfQHOM8GOguh

[barren sun]

Turns out it's not as op as it initially intuitively seems. Looking at the Grim is something that the evil team can only take advantage of at the start of the game, and registering as good / tf / outsider isn't always helpful. I still love it though

[next vault]

btw, as a spy, ask your ST to register you as evil/minion, I've asked my STs to do so multiple times and it's sometimes devastating

[fallow rapids]

saint in fact still good

[grizzled marsh]

, now it’s still probably top 5 but i’d place a few roles over it

[dusty thistle]

was probably my favorite role when I first read through the wiki. Once I started playing, it became eclipsed by and . I still like it, but it's not my favorite.

[low umbra]

I never really had a favourite and still don’t. I think I initially loved the Empath quite a bit and now have vigor in like top 3 characters somewhat consistently now

[next vault]

honestly I dont have any favourites either

[dusty thistle]

[next vault]

I have a +1 sweetheart setup text because i'm the sweetheart

[dusty thistle]

I see. I suppose the pit hag changed you out of the chambermaid?

[next vault]

yes

used to have that as a setup text before I joined back

me after the pithag changes me from soldier to the swetheart :3

[uneven field]

I was enamoured of the Ojo initially

conceptually that is, I liked the mechanical novelty

now I'm enamoured of the Ojo carnally

but I love being the baron much more

my play style is such that I have the most fun by far when I'm a minion

[next vault]

PUNISH THE OJO PUNISH THE OJO PUNISH THE OJO PUNISH THE OJO PUNISH THE OJO PUNISH THE OJO PUNISH THE OJO PUNISH THE OJO PUNISH THE OJO

[uneven field]

uh oh wrendle, somebody hasn't seen my ojo hornyposting

[next vault]

actually

i remember a teensy I made with all demonbanes and ojo

raven/farmer/sage/banshee/soldier/i dont remember
klutz/sweetheart?
i dont remember
ojo

[junior knot]

Klutz and sweetheart arent demonbanes

[sinful onyx]

I thought moonchild was nice

now i think it's a townsfolk in most scripts

[next vault]

the idea is that the ojo can hit those, but if they miss

PUNISH THE OJO PUNISH THE OJO.....

a joke script made to maybe get the "best script ever" award because a lot of people loved killing the ojo's entire family for missing

[uneven field]

cruel and unusual

[pure meadow]

It’s always been one of drunk lunatic and Mario because the concept of someone getting the token of a character they actually arent and especially one of a team they are not on has always been one I’ve been fascinated with and one which drew me towards clocktower over other social deduction games. For how my opinion of them have changed Ive definitely started to understand why people might not like them (especially marionette) but I’ve just gotten too attached to Mario as a whole after the concurrent lizards/blindbucket games to where it’s still my favourite by far

[finite wigeon]

Hard to say, I started Clocktower soo long ago lol, uhh

the character that's grown on me the most is probably, like, Sage?

I think the character that I've soured on the most with time is probably Gossip

I think the first characters I genuinely considered "my favorite character" were Mutant and Minstrel but like

that was after being involved with the game for quite a while, and I still quite like them

[hollow oasis]

why exactly

answer in a 5 paragraph essay format /j

[finite wigeon]

I used to think that BMR being a script that's balanced around the kills not solving a whole lot was a big strength of it, but over time I've come to view as like...I guess the script wouldn't be more fun if it had more direct mechanical info but solving BMR is a little frustrating at times and not often worth properly doing.

[hollow oasis]

the kills do solve a lot

[finite wigeon]

Gossip in particular is a character hurt by it's role on BMR. Because the Demon is able to sink their kills, it is very extremely rare that Gossip ever actually learns anything definitively from their ability, and there's a lot of very common ways to completely fuck up the ability in a way that almost strictly hurts town. It is is so much more risk than anyone realizes for almost never any reward.

[hollow oasis]

the demon sinking their kills is a thing in and of itself

[finite wigeon]

I mean, it's a benefit for the good team, sure, but it's not info

[hollow oasis]

gossip is better in zombuul games

[finite wigeon]

and that detail might be a thing that makes Gossip work as a character, but idk it's not gonna make me suddenly head over heals for it. I don't want to insinuate Gossip is some terrible travesty against the fundementals of God or whatever, but it is very not my cup of tea, and I once thought it was

[hollow oasis]

fair enough

I've seen enough "Gossip is confirmed by kill count"

to think it's ok

there are better roles(Chambermaid anyone?)

alternatively do info that evil doesn't understand so they don't kill you

Number of in-play TF Es works for this

[hollow oasis]

useful question if you have a ton of claims

[fallow rapids]

CaU reference

[supple dirge]

When I first started playing it was pit-hag. Love it then and now, the creative plays it can do, how fun it can be to do unexpected choices, though its hard to put on a script since it kinda needs the whole script made for it. Now my favorite is Wizard.

[junior knot]

** [1/22]: ** If you could rephrase one character ability/jinx, what would it be? and why?

[barren sun]

You may only nominate once per game. When you do, the nominee might die.

Sometimes a Golem doesn't feel much like an Outsider

Specially confirmation or that got punched

Also jinx hurts my eyes

[fallow rapids]

why stop at one?

At the start of the game, the Storyteller decides whether the Mathematician learns if the ability the Drunk thinks they have yielded false info or failed to work properly.
At the start of the game, the Storyteller decides whether the Mathematician learns if the Lunatic attacks a different player than the real Demon attacked.
At the start of the game, the Storyteller decides whether the Mathematician learns if the ability the Marionette thinks they have yielded false info or failed to work properly.

[uneven field]

actually it was a CIA torture reference

[uneven field]

you went from "minion that rarely works" to "minion that never works"

[dusty thistle]

[1/22] When is your favorite character's birthday?

[fiery sleet]

every day's your birthday when you're forever young

Not my favorite character but:

tells everyone they know different birthdays so they get presents year-round

[flat lintel]

Someone asked a que

[dusty thistle]

Oh, uh, nevermind

I missed that, sorry guys

[modern plume]

They know it's one of two days. Just not sure which.

[supple dirge]

yesterday

[supple dirge]

Make the lleech mastermind jinx say whatever it's actually supposed to do

[dusty thistle]

Remove all the words from the zealot's ability.

[vague pier]

Butler, probably something about "if they appear to be voting" instead of "only if they are voting too", for when their master goes after them in the voting order.
if they drop afterward, it's kinda owells what could the butler have done, read their mind?

[valid garden]

There's a few.... Namely I'd reword SW

What the fuck does "(Travellers don't count)" mean

Just do (Not Travellers)

[coarse fern]

Tuesday

[lost thistle]

revert magician legion

[next vault]

tells each parent a different birthday and gets lots of presents

[uneven field]

I don't understand how we can go a week without questions and then on the days when someone asks a question suddenly you're too impatient to wait until tomorrow

[uneven field]

Sage: If the Demon kills you, you learn that 1 of 2 players is the Demon.

it's worth the couple extra words to get rid of that stupid recluse jinx

a similar change should be made to chambermaid for the similar stupid mathematician jinx

[dusty thistle]

I simply missed Wizard's question.

I haven't been paying as much attention to here recently.

[uneven field]

is bad sign, we need to get it popping again

[grizzled marsh]

Fang-gu tho, i'm pretty sure that's the reason for this wording

[tough silo]

Me!!!!! Fahhhhhhh!!!!!

[finite wigeon]

I hate Magician Marionette with a passion

[versed junco]

Magician/Marionette: If the Magician and the Marionette are both in play, they are hated with a passion.

[barren sun]

I like to believe every characters birthday happens to be the same as it's revealation date
However
They invented February 29th cause they didn't wanna share birthday with anyone

[fiery sleet]

Magician/Legion: Just show each legion their "teammates" individually bro, don't show magician the entire evil team

[dense moat]

Whichever yours is, promise :)

[tough silo]

The best "for fun" jinx honestly

[finite wigeon]

I mean, if it was clear at all how the damn thing worked I'd probably agree

it's just uhh, not

like literally every time I've tried to run it with my group we've had, like, a 10 minute heated debate over what tf the words on the jinx mean

[tough silo]

Give the demon a hedache

The jinx

[low umbra]

Read their mind and the future too

[low umbra]

I think I’d just make it part of the how to run cause that’s how I want witch to work ngl

Cringe that a final-3 can immediately end if it’s a witch, demon, and good player if there’s a traveller alive

[junior knot]

** [1/23]: ** On which numeric sector of the Gregorian calendar did the character of which you consider most dear emerge from their creator?

[warped urchin]

Um

[junior knot]

This

[warped urchin]

Yeah so we already did this question

[junior knot]

no it was the second one yesterday

so was tryna give it its own day

[warped urchin]

Oh

[next vault]

The 32nd of Tridecamber

[fallow rapids]

pretends their birthday is 21 September

[valid garden]

So people remember?

[barren sun]

Thy who shall be, are to be when thy shall, thus saith the Lord Steven Medway
(I like to think the characters' birthdays are the same as their release dates)
-# (Idk how to old English)

And invented February 29th so they didn't have to share one

[fiery sleet]

already has a day named after them (April 1st)

[fiery sleet]

Thy means your

[barren sun]

Wha-

Why?

[fiery sleet]

Because it does? idk

[barren sun]

Thy -> those
Sound so much Intuitive omg

Whatever xd

[barren sun]

Turns out all Base 3 don't have a release date on the wiki so nevermind that

1st day of summer

[fiery sleet]

invented February 30th so they really don't have to share

[low umbra]

‘Those’ already existed in old English pretty sure

[valid garden]

Not old english, early modern english

Thy & Thine are both informal forms of 'your'

Thou is the informal (& singular) form of 'you'

[low umbra]

Corrected for clarity

Grammar is difficult to understand sometimes

[barren sun]

Idk, I'm not even English native XD

[valid garden]

Ahhh icl I did misunderstand

But 'Old English' is very different

[low umbra]

Yeah they’re not the same language haha

Me when English is a frankenstein’s monster of linguistics

[valid garden]

Hwæt. We Gardena in geardagum,
þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.
Oft Scyld Scefing sceaþena þreatum,
monegum mægþum, meodosetla ofteah,
egsode eorlas.

[low umbra]

So true many word

[valid garden]

No more than any other language ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[fallow rapids]

I, me, my, mine
thou, thee, thy, thine

ye and you are plural

over time thou, thee -> you

and thy, thine -> your

so now we have I, me, my, mine, you, yours

[fiery sleet]

Specifically, thou is you as a subject and thee is you as an object

[fallow rapids]

which maps onto I and me yes

[fiery sleet]

ik just clarifying

[uneven field]

the living demon is still keyword: "the Demon"

[finite wigeon]

They celebrate the day their mom died instead of their birthday

[grizzled marsh]

Got released in November 20th if that was your question

[junior knot]

** [1/24] ** What is your least favorite role to play? And how often have you actually pullled it?

[hollow oasis]

Zealot

twice

it just doesn't do anything

[coarse fern]

It’s probably ravenkeeper at the moment since I am bad at bait roles

And if I am proccing as a bait role it’s probably early game where RK is weaker

[fallow rapids]

i hate playing atheist

you just like claim immediately and do nothing all game

what's the point

[hollow oasis]

Solve “your” evil team

Considering it must include you, this is less hard

[uneven field]

mutant, often

[next vault]

Huntsman

Pulled it once, I felt like a blank token

"This person isnt the damsel" Wow, very ability!

[fallow rapids]

depends on the script (exactly Heretic Huntsman Damsel)

but people throw Huntsman on everything with a Damsel on it for some godforsaken reason

[next vault]

I dont

I never put Huntsman on my scripts

[fallow rapids]

never say never, but yeah probably for the best

[next vault]

Huntsman needs a rework

Because rn on base 0 it does nothing good for the goodies

[versed junco]

Hell, thy name is No Dashii

Idk like twice

[fiery sleet]

Butler 🥱
One time I got it twice in one night 😔

[valid garden]

Empath, only because I've drawn the token nearly 20 times

[fiery sleet]

Huntsman needs to be each night tbh

[junior knot]

Did you mean: ?

[valid garden]

Hot take idm opg huntsman

[junior knot]

ok wait this actually gives me a fire idea for a SC huntsman

so you get best of both worlds

hannah montana style

where hunstman isn't pressured to spend their guess early so they don't waste it, but can take their time finding the damsel

[fiery sleet]

charmsman

[junior knot]

no

caughtsman

or as i like to call it, scotsman

[tough silo]

Getting played like a damn fiddle its sure fun, expecialy when town forgets you exist dawg.

Youre a mechanical outed extra evil player, you should remind everyone to execute you or play with or against your extra "evil" vote

You hurt town the most the more late to mid game you are alive.

[tough silo]

Its fun if you go ahead and assume there is a fangu who can jump to you, depends on the script really, mutant its really boring in Leviathan games imo

Sometimes your made up information hits and you win too.

[tough silo]

Butler teaches you to read the social dinamics of the votes for every nomination, choosing someone sus its something YOU dont want to do as a butler, also if you pick a dead player youre screwed for 1 whole day haha.

Youre basically a mechanical semi-extra evil player with agency.

[uneven field]

no it isn't, I don't like being fang gu jumped either

[tough silo]

Big Sad.

[hollow oasis]

You’re also just basically good or the demon

[tough silo]

Yeah outsider count discusion taken into account yeah

[hollow oasis]

As in it is such a shitty bluff for a minion you shouldn’t

[tough silo]

Its a good framing device bluff honestly

Its not direct "they are evil" but socially it can solve

[fiery sleet]

I do like using zealot as a bluff when I'm good

[tough silo]

Why?

[uneven field]

debatable

[fiery sleet]

It's easy and evil usually doesn't want to kill it

[tough silo]

Ohhhhh

[finite wigeon]

Saint on Fang Gu scripts

and I've pulled that once

you'll never guess how I feel about that game

[low umbra]

Favourite game ever? /s

[uneven field]

she fang on my saint til I gu

[shrewd cloud]

Cult Leader in my previous groups since they were just so unwilling to entertain the idea of actually starting a cult. Which just makes the role not all that useful if you know a sizeable portion of the group won’t engage with it

My current group is a lot better about actually taking it seriously and talking through it (not to say cults always happen but they happen more often than before). But I have not drawn Cult Leader in a while so

[keen crescent]

highkey tinker. I've pulled it once (I usually storytell) on bmr and I didn't end up doing much that game. Maybe part of it was that a lot of people had read me super socially evil, and just kinda disregarded the things I was saying, but it was kinda boring.

[finite wigeon]

I love that in that one script of mine Cult Leader is "too strong" because good is really eager to actually go for Cult Leader wins

[tough silo]

Tinker its fun its a once per game recluse

[sinful onyx]

balloonist

however i discovered a peak usage

if someone claim balloonist and saw townsfolk -> outsider claims

they're confirmed

[foggy grotto]

Flowergirl on the App or IRL (never get it)

if i can vote track automatically, Im not a huge fan playing goblin. I’m bad at outted evil mind games

[hollow oasis]

dude's never ran the wizard-goblin-vortox gambit

smh

[foggy grotto]

no i haven’t run slop

that’s correct

[hollow oasis]

sorry not ran

done

[tough silo]

Can i see what script its called slop?

Whats the usual "slop" script?

I know indigestion brewing its one

[hollow oasis]

whalebuffet

[dusty thistle]

[1/25] What is your deepest BOTC-related fear?

[low umbra]

That I actually don’t know what I’m talking about and people are silently judging me

Oh wait…

[barren sun]

Once. I felt like a librarian who saw a drunk, but I didn't know who was I supposed to see.

[lost thistle]

unironically starting to like old balloonist more

[fiery sleet]

Running atheist

[fallow rapids]

being seen as rude probably

[uneven field]

there are some speculated characters I really really need to get released

🧦 👀

[vale oxide]

posting a script in https://discordapp.com/channels/569683781800296501/570050241022263317

[valid garden]

Ah yes the sock-looker

[hollow oasis]

Are we that scary?

[fallow rapids]

Cuscdiscuss

We don't bite. [+Fibbin]

[hollow oasis]

Damnit.

[fallow rapids]

we are that scary sometimes yeah

[uneven field]

I should visit and discuss the script im building

[uneven field]

there's a character that, should it not get released by the time the next three base scripts and GSoE are out, I have promised to eat my sock

[finite wigeon]

Losing the love I have for this game and not finding something to replace it with

or leaving the homebrew scene, that'd suck and there's definitely been a lot of times where things have been less than ideal

[hollow oasis]

you can replace it with me and thelast19digitsofpi’s new game

In like a year probably

[uneven field]

I could never fall out of love with this game, it simply keeps on giving

even though TPI is really testing me with these loric

[hollow oasis]

Tbh I don’t hate loric

Because they’re just “things that community already wants to do”

[junior knot]

The fun things about lorics is they're optional

[uneven field]

the plural is loric actually

[junior knot]

Ok idrc

I'll pluralize how i want tyvm

[uneven field]

the category page on the wiki for all the character types are in plural, Townsfolk, Outsiders, Minions, Demons, Travellers, Fabled, Loric

[junior knot]

Tbh i kinda wish there were more extreme lorics ngl

Like the ones we have feel a little tame

[uneven field]

yeah that's fine, but every month that a new loric is dropped is another month until the next good character drops

[junior knot]

For the most part

[uneven field]

hello Amy she/any

[karmic rose]

I've met some pretty cool people through clocktower, and it would suck to lose that when I inevitably find something else to think about for 8 hours of the day

[uneven field]

simply remain here forever

[karmic rose]

hm

[uneven field]

it's very easy for me because I don't do obsession the same way other people do it

[dense moat]

Bluffing: I always suck at it when im good

[uneven field]

most people have short attention spans for obsessions

it's all that social and media and all those video games, I reckon

I don't do any of that, so I'm free to spend all of my mental energy on one singular focus forever

maybe I'm just autistic

hmm

[karmic rose]

much to ponder

based on how long I spent on r/anime as a teenager, I'd judge myself to be about halfway through my clocktower lifespan

[uneven field]

I'll miss you when you're gone

[karmic rose]

we've got like 2.5 years left, dwdw

[uneven field]

yea but I'll be here long after that comes to pass

and you're my favourite storyteller so that's sad

[karmic rose]

(I was very into clocktower as a thing to be streamed for a while before I started sending messages here)

[uneven field]

I want to get into streaming clocktower just so that I have an excuse to have a stable clocktower group

I look at all the e-celebrity clocktower people and I get jealous, because they get to consistently play like four games of clocktower a week with the same rotating cast, which includes TPI people

I wish I was in a rotating cast

[karmic rose]

A rotating Cass, if you will

[uneven field]

I think arif underscore a might genuinely be the thing I watch most on youtube

[karmic rose]

wait ok new unironic goal: finish my PhD before I stop being really into clocktower

[uneven field]

Dr. Amy Cakeandlies She/any, PhD

[dense moat]

What sort of PhD? Like what field?

[hollow oasis]

This is peak tho, so it’s ok

Keeping hobbies is good

[uneven field]

it's not that egregious, I have more than one interest!

I have...

(counting)

four

I have four interests

like maybe five if you count the concept of religion in general

[karmic rose]

Microbiology!

[hollow oasis]

I have like

2

Actually 3

[uneven field]

that's cool

[next vault]

Fear unlocked yesterday: Being the Drunk Atheist in a Legion game

[junior knot]

Well that's your fault for playing a legion atheist script

[fiery sleet]

https://tenor.com/view/truth-supernova-super-truth-nova-true-morgan-freeman-sephiroth-gif-4644219165557616305

[foggy grotto]

running Wizard

[hollow oasis]

ah,

don't worry about it

simply bargain with the wizard

[simple crystal]

mood

[supple dirge]

All my friends secretly hate me and they'll eventually make another group without me

[vague pier]

Never getting good at the game

Anyone got a question for the new day

[1/26] Which character do you wish to see on more scripts / was easier to scriptbuild around (i realise these arent equivalent questions but eh) and of course, why?

[junior knot]

Minstrel minstrel 100% minstrel

If there wasn't so much natural support itd be lycan, but in the current environment it's minstrel

Mostly answering the second question

[supple dirge]

Evil twin, such a cool character but only seen it on a handful of custom scripts. Its hard to put on scripts and I know a lot of people just don't like it, but I think its really cool.

[hollow oasis]

Have you considered IVT

[loud snow]

Huntsman tbh, I like the concept but I wish it had a more reliable way to track down the Damsel (maybe shugenja direction towards Damsel, slowly learn more people who aren't the Damsel each night, etc)

[supple dirge]

What's that

[heavy sundial]

cult leader

[junior knot]

intermediate value theorem, i believe its nerdguys pet custom they made

(ofc using plural they not singular in this instance)

bc of the 708 of them

[fallow rapids]

of course nerdguy names a script IVT

mm... continuity...

||the script is It's Voting Time||

[junior knot]

sorry thats just what hystrex calls it whenever it comes up

so somehow ive been pavlovd into thinking of it as int val theorem

[uneven field]

ojo, harpy, fearmonger, evil twin, mastermind, preacher, professor

[vague pier]

omg ojo my beloved

[vague pier]

oh my answer to this would be acro because i like the thought of a droison detector :3
-# omg acro should be on BMR

[barren sun]

Probably
Been tinkering with it for like 2 months and I just can't seem to make it work with loud minions

[fiery sleet]

Fearmonger

[dusty thistle]

[tough silo]

[fiery sleet]

Oh alchemist too

[pastel prism]

[fallow rapids]

scripting Alsaahir is easy though

[tough silo]

I dont see them enough

[finite wigeon]

I don't think there are enough official characters to properly support Legion

[tough silo]

Vortox does so heavy lifting

[finite wigeon]

Legion works best when everyone has enough incentive to play kind of suspiciously, and so nonLegion games look like Legion games, which makes Legion games plausibly nonLegion games and it's just like

[tough silo]

They are happily married

[finite wigeon]

outside of scripts with homebrew characters, I've never seen a Legion game where it wasn't extremely obvious by the end of d1 that it was Legion

[tough silo]

Roundabout exist sir

[hollow oasis]

or just

like

all the shenanigans

Widow+Pithag+ET+Harpy+Goblin

[fiery sleet]

I've been legion in a game where we covered up legion even during f3

half the town was convinced it was kazali

[hollow oasis]

I mean, there's a reason I tried to make It's Voting Time

and it's "Because outed legion is cringe. Bluff something"

I have a 100% winrate as legion

and it's because if I'm legion, I will pull off the most "it's not legion, how do we have all this chicanery"

this is because I coordinate Legion pretty fast

[fiery sleet]

tbh if your playgroup always figures out legion d1, I think that just means legion players in your group need to coordinate better and avoid telltale voting patterns

[hollow oasis]

Or just

"have more ET's on script"

[fiery sleet]

But also, you can get away with a lot of bullshit if you're loud/aggressive/convincing enough

I've won a legion game bluffing pixie-alch-evil twin even though town was pretty sure the person I claimed was the real alch was legion

And managed to turn sus around onto the dreamer who was high-key carrying town

in f3

So tldr, legion is a skill-based role

[next vault]

[fiery sleet]

I wish to be on more scripts

[supple dirge]

Wish granted, the cost is its TB + Wizard

[versed junco]

**[1/26] Make a script with Wizard on... **

wait
but we had a...
fuck

[fiery sleet]

I wish today's question was about me instead

[junior knot]

.

[valid garden]

?

[modern plume]

Oops all Wizards, now legally endorsed by TPI.
...
-# Pope really did functionally make 'Oops All [X]' basically Clocktower legal-.

[coarse fern]

1. I wish there were more scripts that featured less popular experimental townsfolk like Acrobat / Nightwatchman. A lot of experimental townsfolk have really interesting possibilities but sadly arent very popular on scripts
2. Choirboy. It gets fucked over by 80% of characters to the point where it’s almost impossible to make anything with it

[junior knot]

For number 1, i think single target confirmation is just a little weaker than people expect so swap it out for more public confirmation for that virginlike spot on script

Unfortunately acro is in this weird in-between place bc its deathmod, so mechanical, but then also droison detection which is kinda redundant with a mechanical script

[coarse fern]

Yeah exactly

It’s interesting with stuff like Lleech and ND but those both hate mechanical roles

On scripts where droison detection is most important mechanical roles kinda suck

SNV type of thing

[sinful onyx]

Alchemist

[tough silo]

Its much better with character duplication on script thou

Cannibal, philosopher in particular

[tough silo]

Acrobat being on China Shop now makes it soo good

[warm gate]

Riot - it seems like such an interesting demon in concept (and I'm kinda sorta trying to work on a Riot script rn) but solo-Riot is giving me issues personally, and trying to make Riot work on scripts with other demons kinda just carcinizes it into something like CoaCT
Heretic - a really interesting Outsider that essentially creates the Politician play pattern but in a much more interesting way, unfortunately the fact that it flips win-cons means that it's weird and janky to play around and potentially a little uncomfy? even though it seems like it could be incredibly interesting to engage with
Summoner - hard to not just make a death-mod script with it, though this is probably the easiest one to script around of the roles I'm mentioning
Hermit - hard to come up with an interesting combo of Outsider abilities for it to have that aren't just broken or un-fun in some way

[hollow oasis]

If you need a combo that doesn’t feel too horrible

Try butler sweetheart saint

[supple dirge]

I haven't played new riot, old riot seemed more like a gimmick the few times I played it.

[warm gate]

I'd like to play new Riot, and I'm trying to see if I can script around it in an interesting way but it's difficult

[hollow oasis]

Old riot was indeed really bad

34% winrate moment

[next vault]

Taken from clocktracker

Legion Wins 66.34% of games
Kazali Wins 64.33% of games
LoT Wins Wins 62.08% of games
Lil-Monsta Wins 60.96% of games
Fang Gu Wins 60.6% of games
Po Wins 56.12% of games
Vortox Wins 53.31% of games
Yagga Wins 51.98% of games
Leech Wins 51.91% of games

Pukka Wins Wins 49.91% of games
Imp Wins 48.84% of games
Leviathan Wins 48.6% of games
No-Dashii Wins 48.16% of games
Zombuul Wins 47.77% of games
Shabaloth Wins 47.54% of games
Ojo Wins 47.36% of games
Riot Wins Wins 46.29% of games
Vigormortis Wins 42.95% of games
Al-Hadikhia Wins 36.23% of games

[hollow oasis]

Something tells me Kazali isn’t that strong

rivaled by only Legion winrates? I call bs

[sinful onyx]

ehh it's script dependent

like cmon

[sinful onyx]

imo this is the chart for how much each demon is underrated/overrated when scriptbuilding

[hollow oasis]

TRUE

[next vault]

I dont think clocktracker is super reliable but it checks out for every other demon

[hollow oasis]

Legion is kind of just “it might just be strong”

[sinful onyx]

i mean

legion is strong bc all the interactions that make legion not strong is

[hollow oasis]

Bra1n has corroborated this before

[sinful onyx]

devastating to legion

[hollow oasis]

Although actually

[sinful onyx]

so basically 0% of counter legion interactions are on scripts

[hollow oasis]

The first popular legion script had fucking engineer

Or was TB+legion

Or, Half of the 108

[next vault]

Half of 108

Engi Legion is a sad interaction

You make it so hard for town

[modern plume]

How are these numbers calculated?

[hollow oasis]

Half 108/Seperation of Church/State have done irreparable damage

[sinful onyx]

like i genuinely think legion is strong bc most tfs either

1. is mid with legion
   or
2. completely fuck over legion

[hollow oasis]

Clocktracker

[sinful onyx]

and 2 is never on scripts

[modern plume]

How does it calculate these numbers

[sinful onyx]

so ehh ofc legion is strong

[hollow oasis]

People putting in wins

[next vault]

What tfs break legion? Slayer?

[modern plume]

Which people

[hollow oasis]

(Insert mass shrugging)

[hollow oasis]

Chef