secret thing

[unkempt tangle]

Like Imp SW, Assassin Goon

[fiery sleet]

+ : If the Poppy Grower is in play, the Kazali chooses which Minions are in play but not which players are those Minions.

[dusty thistle]

+: If the goon would drunk the summoner, it doesn't.

[supple dirge]

If summoner picks lil monsta they also pick a minion their choice turns into

[low umbra]

The minstrel does not trigger if the boomdandy is executed

[junior knot]

i don't actually like this tbh

1. it can make minstrel useless in 1 minion games
2. it makes evil have to actually work to use the boom ability

the jinx still doesn't really improve putting them on the same script together

[low umbra]

Well, the current state is that minstrel isn’t bluffable by evil if they have a boomdandy explosion. That player just becomes outed evil and if they’re the demon it’s just immediate GG good team

[fallow rapids]

When the Boomdandy is executed, they swap characters with the Minstrel /j

now nobody gets to use their ability

[low umbra]

Idk, maybe the lesson here is that minstrel is the sort of character that doesn’t work with a bunch of roles and it can’t be fixed

[warm gate]

: The Wraith is not woken with other evil players until the Minions and Demon learn each other.

[fiery sleet]

Doesn't stop the wraith from finding the demon by seeing who gets bluffs

[low umbra]

Then run the night out of order imo, if you know the wraith is going to be eyes wide open or so. Just be aware of not breaking things when doing that

It doesn’t solve the issue, but it makes it riskier for the wraith to be eyes wide open at the start of n1 at least

[fiery sleet]

they can still peek and be nearly uncatchable

[warm gate]

yeah it's not perfect but it's a compromise to make things just a small bit riskier

[low umbra]

Sucks that the app is not a perfect replication of what one could do in this situation but ce la vie

[fallow rapids]

/ (and like, 19 more)

you are allowed to leave to buy dinner and come back (you will contribute as much to the game as you would have anyway)

alsie is actually hilariously unsupported and i love the lil guy more every time i see a script with him on it

[fiery sleet]

Any 2 out of / / / / : Guys please just do only one of these per day. Bluffing is cool and all but stop making the game take twice as long

[fallow rapids]

i need to figure out how to make a gif that is the alsie token with the ability text

You have no ability.
[+1 ???]

where ??? cycles through all of the quabillion alsadhir interactions

[next marlin]

A bunch of these are interactions that actively make alsaahir stronger

[low umbra]

Doesn’t need a jinx, just a reasonable ST and play group

[fallow rapids]

elaborate

[low umbra]

Well, specifically legion, kazali, and psycho

[zenith lotus]

LoT too

[next marlin]

Yeah primarily those four

[fallow rapids]

i could see the case for solo LoT but it does not make it any stronger on a 4 demon script

if you play LoT by killing your evils you kinda just make alsie bad anyway

[low umbra]

Eh, LoT is a bit funky. It’s usually quite easy to guess into LoT worlds, but it does require non-standard guessing to do so

[next marlin]

Having watched the alsaahir China Shop saga it absolutely makes it way stronger on multi demon scripts in both Typhon and not Typhon games

There was a point where alsaahir consistently solo solved Typhon games on that script

[fallow rapids]

psycho just eviscerates alsie if they get it wrong the first time

[fiery sleet]

I have it on my solo vigor script since the minion players there are a good amount easier to deduce

[next marlin]

Psycho has a lot of priorities

[fallow rapids]

i‘ve seen it happen even when alsie holds until d4

[low umbra]

Give the alsaahir cover. Good team should be doing that on any script, especially on a psycho script

[fallow rapids]

alsie also doesn’t come very close a lot of the time

i mean it happens

[low umbra]

Right but it doesn’t necessarily have to for it to be useful information

[fiery sleet]

My one time playing alsaahir I solved it d2
(It was teensy levi with mario and boffin on the script and the "grandmother" confirmed their neighbor, so I just guessed that pair both ways and got them)

[fallow rapids]

kazali is yeah i shouldn’t have put it on there

[fiery sleet]

alsie is very based into kazali bc it encourages them to mix up which players they choose

Like I've had kazalis kill alsies n2 a bunch bc the evil team was too obvious of an alsie guess

[fallow rapids]

imagine a in place of then

[low umbra]

I also think that imp has meaningfully interesting interplay with alsaahir, if the script is designed such that the imp doesn’t want to starpass on a whim

[fallow rapids]

dang you official discord emojis

note that every additional demon movement possibility is exponentially bad for alsaahir

imp is fine with alsie, imp sw is usually just not worth it

[low umbra]

SW is worse than imp imo

[fallow rapids]

SW is pretty bad yes

[next marlin]

I once spent the first two days of a kazali game nearly bricking myself because my scarlet was in an instantly outed seam no with the alsaahir

[fallow rapids]

i‘ve alsie guessed LM correctly before

[next marlin]

(I got the alsa executed D2 instead)

[fallow rapids]

twice, one time i was poisoned

oh yeah poisoner alsie is really dumb but that‘s true with all things poisoner

[low umbra]

Yeah that’s more of a poisoner issue than an alsaahir issue lol

[fallow rapids]

alsie lleech is interestingly mnleh

on one hand lleech safety really helps alsie

on the other hand alsie is not a very positive lleech host

[next marlin]

Really funny math ping though

[fallow rapids]

Concur...

this one is dumb

[unkempt tangle]

: this character cannot be in play

unless the script is BMR

[fiery sleet]

Hey, I have a decent stormcaught minstrel script

[junior knot]

When a minion is executed is the stormcatcher drunk as well?

[fiery sleet]

No, the stormcatcher is not a player and Minstrel drunks all players

[junior knot]

ok wait this gives me an idea for /

*role minstrel

[low burrow]

Minstrel (Townsfolk) - Bad Moon Rising

When a Minion dies by execution, all other players (except Travellers) are drunk until dusk tomorrow.

**Affects Setup: **False

[junior knot]

ok this might be something....

[modern plume]

-# Travellers are also not drunk either, which does allow for some neat interactions

[junior knot]

Bc it'd be too confirmatory right

[modern plume]

Yeah

[fleet hedge]

this is a way Apprentice Assassin can wreak town

making a kill on a minstrel night

[barren sun]

The flowergirl may open their eyes during a secret voting but does not learn if a demon voted that night.
The Saint survives execution if the evil Judge forced it
The goon does not drunk the assassin
The scarlet woman remains the scarlet woman if another minion became the Imp

[fallow rapids]

traveller jinxes...

[modern plume]

"The goon does not drunk the assassin " is not necessary, Assassin can kill a Goon even if Goon has yet to be visited.

[fallow rapids]

/ :

Players may also nominate, but they may be rejected.

[barren sun]

I really feel like we need that one specifically, just picture silly little me, an innocent Saint in whalebuffet when, suddenly a Judge appears on screen day 3

Im begging dear life they are good, cause if they are not, I'm already lost

[fallow rapids]

travellers are more script dependent than people think

[fallow rapids]

also this is definitely a storyteller issue lmao

[barren sun]

Yeah, I know, but the interaction is very hard to understand in a mechanical way

[barren sun]

Well, the thing with Whalebuffet is that (usually) you ge to choose your traveler; and if you try to choose judge and st tells you "ehhhhhhh... Maybe try another one?" You can imply someone is the Saint

[fallow rapids]

infinity gnomes

[junior knot]

Isn't that just mafia

[lost thistle]

of course you mention that

[modern plume]

[dry sluice]

jinxes:

• The Summoner registers as the Demon to , , , , (any others?)
• If the Summoner ability is droisoned or removed, the Storyteller has the Summoner ability.
• A Summoner cannot be created mid-game. (Ok, I'll allow one exception: a can swap a Summoner, but this doesn't refresh its ability.)

I need some of these for a janky custom, but hopefully they're all intuitive

[modern plume]

You probs wanna include Barber, since if Barber dies before the summoning, no one gets to use the Barber effect. So if you wanna allow the Summoner to do the Barber swap, you need them to register as a Demon to the Barber.

Puzzlemaster + Summoner have awful synergy as well, so you could always include something like "If the Summoner chooses the puzzledrunk, the Puzzlemaster becomes their own puzzledrunk" if you wanted more Summoner fixes

[junior knot]

If you're being nice you could have it register to salsa/slayer

[modern plume]

So long as you have a fixing effect to prevent puzzledrunk summoned demon, it should all work out. Doesn't have to be what I recommended, there's other options potentially

[dry sluice]

I'd just have them become not puzzledrunk anymore (but the Puzzlemaster can still guess them and amusingly learn they're the demon)

[junior knot]

Is there any downside to just making puzzle master drunk an explicitly good player?

Which would solve this conundrum

[modern plume]

It makes the puzzledrunk move

If you have that as the effect

[junior knot]

Yes

[modern plume]

Which makes it far more devastating and brutal

You also have another amusing effect if the Puzzlemaster happens to correctly guess the puzzledrunk before there even is a Demon in a Summoner game, even with the fix.

You guess [puzzledrunk player] as the puzzledrunk. The ST shakes their head as their answer for who the Demon is

[finite wigeon]

"SHUTTUP WE KNOW YOU WANT TO START A CULT, LET ME RUN THE DAMN VOTE. I DO NOT CARE THAT YOU LIKE [x funny thing here] THIS GAME IS HALF AN HOUR AND 2 PEOPLE ARE DEAD LET ME DO MY JOB JESUS"

"Now that the entire Town Square has gone around and made meme juggles/gossips, nominations are as open as they've always been."

[low umbra]

Me when I was playing a stormcatcher script with a gnome as an evil who wanted to bluff the storm caught character

[dusty thistle]

Just add deviant, it works every time

[tough silo]

I alsahir guess that chickoo is the minion and...
The Game Is Over!

[unkempt tangle]

:3

[junior knot]

--> + as

[heavy sundial]

I have a lot of jinxes I would add tbh

lunatic/ojo, poppygrower/vortox, barber/alignment changers (similar to pithag jinxes) and princess/leviathan & riot are the main ones

maybe boomdandy/atheist also

[fiery sleet]

12/5: What are your favorite characters to stormcatch?

Mine is minstrel

[junior knot]

if im doing a bit/no deathmod script

[fiery sleet]

Stormcaught gambler (trust)

[junior knot]

lunatic when they are something like FG/imp

poppy can lead to fun interactions

[fallow rapids]

mutant

[zenith lotus]

goon

[heavy sundial]

lunatic is fun, I also quite like stormcaught YSK/passive roles

I have also tried (and failed) multiple times to write stormcaught alchemist

[dusty thistle]

[fallow rapids]

[fiery sleet]

I quite like stormcaught OPG because it gives them more safety to hold onto their ability until it's most useful

[dusty thistle]

I don't think that's legal, is it?

*role storm

[low burrow]

Role Not Found.

[zenith lotus]

*loric storm

[low burrow]

Storm Catcher

Name a good character. If in play, they can only die by execution, but evil players learn which player it is.

**Type: **Loric

[dusty thistle]

Yeah, scapegoat isn't a good character, right?

[fallow rapids]

yes this is the joke

[fiery sleet]

Stormcaught Storyteller

[heavy sundial]

stormcaught storm catcher

[fast anchor]

I admittedly haven't scriptbuilt with the Storm Catcher much, but I agree that stormcatching OPG abilities can be fun. ST opinion roles are also pretty fun — I've seen a stormcaught General script with Hermit-Heretic-Legion that looked insanely cool

and giving characters that need to stay alive that extra bit of protection is nice — I kinda want to do a stormcaught Huntsman script at some point (I'm aware The Wild Hunt exists, but having run it I didn't really enjoy it)

and then Drunk and Lunatic are also classics since they don't know they're stormcaught, like on Reptiles and Squall of Cthulhu

[fiery sleet]

I'll get to actually making stormcaught HP zeno with HP always getting a quest with the reward to learn the reason for seeing someone, eventually

[barren sun]

The greatest classic demon bluffs, aka , without , etc

[junior knot]

ok is stormcaught philo interesting to anyone else?

[tough silo]

Depends on the script

[uneven field]

TPI endorsed

anyways, stormcatch the preacher for a wild game

or the poppy grower

recommended only if you've got a devastating evil suite

[uneven field]

what's up guys

where did everybody go

[supple dirge]

Guess everything slows down in December

[12/7] If a clocktower character was a youtuber, what kind of videos would they make?

[lost thistle]

mr beast

[junior knot]

cocomelon

[lost thistle]

gregtech new horizons playthrough part 736: Working through UHV

[dusty thistle]

would he really be that generous?

(Not that mr beast is very generous)

[lost thistle]

alternatively for this

[junior knot]

: Bumfights

[dusty thistle]

Ididathing

[fiery sleet]

ragebait slop

[junior knot]

Dropout

[dusty thistle]

Snuff films

Genshin Impact let's play

[fiery sleet]

This is just vibes-based, but I think would make very technical videos about how they build the clock mechanisms, and it would get a good following like those LEGO engineering channels

[tough silo]

NEW SMOKE SPOT FOUND IN RAVENSWOOD [0 EVILS ALLOWED] / vibingwiththebrossss.20250305.jav

[dusty thistle]

A series of hours-long lectures where they go through every viable variation of the Sicillian Defense.

[fiery sleet]

I think could become an "influencer" who's basically just a cult demagogue

[modern plume]

Edgy political content, only whatever's not currently popular.

[fiery sleet]

: TedED riddle videos

[junior knot]

Really? I feel like they would be one of those guessing strangers jobs/weights/colleges something like that, interview on the street style

[tough silo]

Alsahiir smokes a lot

Thats my head canon

Can i put a link to a youtube video for reference?

[modern plume]

Archivist. Re-Uploads of Deleted Videos.

[tough silo]

Movie Trailers/music reuploads

[dusty thistle]

Has recently started gaining a following playing this hit new game called "Blood on the Clocktower" with a group of friends! (Kazali seems like the character most likely to be fourth wall aware, right?)

[modern plume]

Interviews

[fiery sleet]

either that or atheist

[dry sluice]

Rar Awuwu plays Dark Souls, but every time I die, I'm PUNISHED [NEW MODEL DEBUT]

[dusty thistle]

Oh yeah, atheist almost certain knows about the fourth wall

[supple dirge]

hour long true crime videos

[fiery sleet]

: All my viewers are fake and this channel doesn't exist

[modern plume]

"Hi, I'm Sailor, and welcome to Jackass!"

[fiery sleet]

No ahoy?

[dry sluice]

We need to talk about: toxic shipping in the Hazbin fandom, part 2 (voice actor tweets)

[dusty thistle]

A former who spent years meticulously building a persona as a youtuber in order to run one of the greatest scams of all time, stopped once they realized they were making more money just running the channel legitimately.

is their protege who hasn't come to that realization yet.

[foggy grotto]

is definitely a beauty and cosmetics channel

[modern plume]

Mechanical Engineering videos, usually dangerous contraptions (Last posted: 5 years ago...)

[foggy grotto]

doesn’t really contribute much he just does BetMGM sponsored segments and ad reads

[fiery sleet]

local news channel

[dusty thistle]

Makes an oddly high amount of money in donations despite their viewership numbers.

[dusty thistle]

So yeah, definitely Ididathing.

[supple dirge]

Propaganda channel that doesn't realize everyone else with them is just grifting

[modern plume]

Literally only a single video but has 100 million views.

[dry sluice]

Reacting to your UNHINGED tiktoks

(only says variations on "wow, that one was crazy") (5 videos per day, 500,000,000 views) (inexplicably immune to copyright claims)

[modern plume]

Nothing, just a backup channel.

Streamed Mukbangs & ASMR (it goes wrong...)

[fallow rapids]

you know those channels of a couple with awkward chemistry just doing random stuff to get clicks whilst the relationship‘s definitely going to messily explode eventually but no one is quite sure when?

oh wow that previous sentence naturally didn’t repeat a single word. anyways yeah this is that

well to. dang it so close

[modern plume]

-# going to -> gonna, and you'd succeed

[dusty thistle]

Replace "going to" with "will"

[dry sluice]

is the guest constantly getting clickbaited in the thumbnail on popular creators' collab videos. But their own channel only has one Minecraft video and a karaoke stream, both posted 2 years ago

[fallow rapids]

it‘s a really good Minecraft base okay? i liked the stone brick castle

[modern plume]

Every other week, they post an apology video or clarify some controversy...

[fallow rapids]

nah, scapegoat apologises for other people’s controversies

it gets viral because they end up being more genuine than the actual apology video

[dusty thistle]

Had a decently sized channel, recently took a hiatus to get married. (That was four years ago...)

FUN FACT: Sweetheart is the one of two characters who's flavor text is not said by them! Can you name the other one?

[foggy grotto]

arguably kazali

but it’s less clear

[dusty thistle]

Nope!

[foggy grotto]

i mean yes

but sure

uh

technically typhon might not be but it’s a stretch

[zenith lotus]

technically assassin

cause you cant say it

[foggy grotto]

TRUE

[dusty thistle]

Ok, I forgot about Typhon. Typhon might not be a direct quote.

But I'm thinking of one that is definitely not a direct quote from the character.

[foggy grotto]

oh i see

hmmm

gonna keep pondering

[dusty thistle]

Actually, I found another. This is getting a little embarrassing

[foggy grotto]

is Harpy one?

or is harpy talking in that one

[dusty thistle]

Harpy is a direct quote

It's similar to Pit Hag, they're paraphrasing MacBeth

[foggy grotto]

ah

[hollow oasis]

The next jamestown, but they’re showing off the compound and stuff so people join

[foggy grotto]

Butcher?

nah

oh Hells Librarian

[dusty thistle]

Having gone through all the characters, there are three where it's ambiguous, and four where it's definitely not a quote, by my interpretation.

Correct!

[foggy grotto]

four???

where are the other two

[dusty thistle]

Butcher and Hells librarian

Sweetheart

And lycanthrope

[zenith lotus]

i dont think the lycanthrope quote is referring to the lycanthrope itself

[foggy grotto]

i thought lycan was talking in their quote

[zenith lotus]

and how is butcher not a direct quote

[foggy grotto]

could be their customer but yeah it’s a stretch

[dusty thistle]

Butcher is someone talking to the butcher. Lycan, now that I think about it, is reasonable to be both someone else and them

Maybe we move them to the ambiguous category

[foggy grotto]

SH and HL definitely aren’t tho

[dusty thistle]

As for the other ambiguous ones, they are Leviathan, King, and Lord of Typhon

[foggy grotto]

Spy also technically might not be spy

there’s a lot of ambiguous ones

[dusty thistle]

Hmm, yeah true. Whatever the case, hell's librarian and sweetheart are definitely not the either a direct quote or the character's inner monologue

[uneven field]

alsaahir is subwaytakes

[uneven field]

[uneven field]

is Hank Green

is aliensrock

is a deep dive video essayist

I'm going to be charitable and try to be mainly uplifting

I really hope literally anyone else here is in this niche but is one of those youtubers that does videos about religion and myth like religionforbreakfast

and are a sketch comedy trio

foil arms and hog

is onetopic

is jet lag the game

booktube people dni, I'm claiming as a comic book youtuber

does videos about politics and current events

has no consistent video theme or upload schedule, they just upload whatever the fuck they want like it's still the early days of youtube

[grizzled marsh]

is doing ASMR

[fiery sleet]

Evil twin?

maybe arguable if it's the evil twin saying it falsely or the good twin saying it truly

[dusty thistle]

That ones ambiguous. I'll add it.

[tidal quiver]

aliensrock mentioned!!

[lost thistle]

oh shit ive been dying to find a relevant place to share this

https://youtube.com/watch?v=7sl0e9yKwTk

[lost thistle]

patters is just the atheist token in this hypothetical

patters specifically

nobody else, just patters

[fiery sleet]

This video is peak

[tidal quiver]

oh this video! yeah it's based

[brittle bridge]

using sleight of hand to prank my friends part 23!

[uneven field]

it is my civic duty as a transfem to watch aliensrock

[8/12] We've been talking a lot about what Lorics we want in the game recently, so today, instead, everyone design a new Fabled to add to the game.

[fallow rapids]

i submit all of #1421095266504937522

thanks bye

if one of you snipes the fabled i queued for next friday i am gonna be pissed

[uneven field]

lmao

there are lorics in here coda

zenomancer 👁️ - 👀 mother crab

[fallow rapids]

zenomancer is kinda goodsided so mother crab is obviously better 👍

[uneven field]

I love bribery

my ass is poor, I am NOT buying my players ramen

[fallow rapids]

reward for unrevealed atheist: do a silly dance

[fast anchor]

will design an actual Fabled but shouting out Hystrex's Unifier for being awesome

[dry sluice]

Halo
A certain player is guaranteed to be good. They can't nominate or chat privately, & Good can't pick them at night.

[dense moat]

I do actually have one that I never officially submitted before. I’ll probably provide that in a few hours

[dry sluice]

^^ I've used this in the past, and plan to again. It's genuinely useful to me - I have 2 friends who otherwise won't play BoTC because they hate lying / being evil. Suggestions welcome. "You can't nominate" is so that leaving the Halo player alive risks a TPK.

[junior knot]

The Bishop has the halo, and evil just has no chance

[fallow rapids]

Halo needs to die eventually

[dusty thistle]

Death (fabled): Once per game, at night*, a player might die.

[uneven field]

halo looks to me like a bandage for a mortal wound

[dusty thistle]

Need more deathmod? We've got you covered!

[junior knot]

like sentinel but for deathmod

[fallow rapids]

this already exists

it is called Catch

[dusty thistle]

It's meant to join the sentinel-duchess-fibbin triad

[fallow rapids]

the icon is a brick

[uneven field]

if your friend won't play blood on the clocktower at all unless every single element of gameplay is removed from it, consider that maybe it might not be their game

and that that is okay

[fallow rapids]

i guarantee you, this is a lost cause, considering i‘ve been trying to make this for about ⅔ of a year

the issue with things like these is that BOTC is just ultimately not designed around it

it breaks Recluse and Saint

and Goon, Ogre, Cult Leader, and like a 100 other roles

you just kinda kill them and move on

[uneven field]

playing with a halo is spectating with extra steps

[fallow rapids]

a guaranteed good player is usually an evil kill and especially so

[dry sluice]

Fabled exist so that people who otherwise can't/won't play the game, can. Without Revolutionary, would you tell a kid who's not smart enough to understand the rules that this isn't their game? It might be a doomed idea but I'm fundamentally uninterested in the feedback "don't even try this"

[fallow rapids]

a Halo Balloonist publicly announced their singular ping before their death

the space for it is pretty slim

[uneven field]

no, I wouldn't, because revolutionary makes accessible a game that somebody wants to play but can't

[dry sluice]

I think "You can't nominate" is at least inching towards both teams being unsure whether they want to keep the Halo player alive. But you raise good points

[uneven field]

halo seems to be trying to solve the problem of "I am fundamentally disinterested in this genre of game"

[dry sluice]

Cass, sorry, I'm not interested in your feedback

[uneven field]

that's fine

if you want constructive feedback, maybe limit the no nominations to final day so that they at least have something they can do

[dry sluice]

good point!

[fallow rapids]

i have this (spoilers ig it‘s for like. Aesop Tales in 3 weeks but i don’t mind an early reveal)

Truth (Fabled)
The Storyteller chooses 1 or more people to be Truth. They win with Good.

note that uh

they have no ability and aren’t even considered a player

[uneven field]

so like

wait

[fallow rapids]

they can talk! that‘s it. lmao. they close their eyes during night phase yada yada

[uneven field]

oh I see

yeah that's fun

[dry sluice]

if they can talk privately, does it have the "Virgin problem" where everyone is pressured to tell Truth all their info right away?

[fallow rapids]

...do you really wanna do that? the virgin problem is exclusively a poor gameplay decision already

you‘re giving someone all the information when they can mess up and can’t account for all the worlds ever by themselves

[uneven field]

I often lie to people I trust as good

[uneven field]

less experienced players tend to be baffled by this/read me as evil as a result, but like, it's genuine good practice

[fallow rapids]

i‘ve actually made several versions of your own Halo already and this is actually the best thing i have came up with

[junior knot]

is there generally a good reason for this, or is it just range balancing?

[uneven field]

there's fantastic reasons

as a citation, marionette

[dry sluice]

If minions are pressured to claim to Truth before they can talk to anyone else and get bluffs, it can lead to quick solves

But saying "please don't do that" is also fine

I assume Truth players don't contribute to the Demon/Minion/Outsider/Townsfolk count

[fallow rapids]

the first one is solved by the rules of the game lmao

[junior knot]

The Demon is Truth in a heretic game

[fallow rapids]

and yeah they don’t vote

or nominate or die or live really. all they can do is win

[junior knot]

or lose

[uneven field]

marionette is such an effective minion (we've all heard Ben Burns' winrate factoid) because no amount of lying will ever be as convincing as what one believes to be the genuine truth

[fallow rapids]

hopefully they win...

[uneven field]

if I am trying to pull off a play that requires people believe my bluff (as good) then spreading that misinformation to a trusted player is a great way to make the rest of town believe it too

[fiery sleet]

Well the stats show that mario is actually very bad

[fallow rapids]

believing that things are good is the easiest way to stay whimsy though

[uneven field]

I've been accused of range balancing for what is actually just advanced play multiple times now

[fallow rapids]

so i conciously ignore this fact /false

[uneven field]

marionette works a lot better with more advanced groups

[fiery sleet]

I'd still rather have almost any minion over a drunk

[uneven field]

which is probably why Ben got that wrong in the first place

survivorship bias

the stats are true... for the selection

[uneven field]

marionette is not a drunk

I get that in practice they are similarish abilities but the utility is very different

[fallow rapids]

Marionette actually should learn true info a lot

[junior knot]

they should learn info that clears their demon

[fallow rapids]

you can put the demon and a minion in their WW pingg

honestly? it depends

[junior knot]

unless its an imp

then frame that bth all day

[fallow rapids]

if i have a stubborn player as a mario balloonist i might give them info that exclusively helps evil, if i know the mario balloonist is reserved and the imp always gets the mario in on it i might give true info about the outsiders

[dry sluice]

I think this Marionette talk is interesting but I'm gonna continue it in #experimental-chat

[fallow rapids]

good idea

[junior knot]

you could also move it https://discord.com/channels/569683781800296501/1421170033115009144

[fallow rapids]

#1437348199235850385 message

Squ4ll was quite ahead of you on this one

ironically i too made a deathmod fabled right before catch was released. i almost made it exactly the same as catch but didn’t like how unsolvable it was so i made

Wolfshadow (Fabled)

Once per game, someone chosen by a player tonight* might die.
-# “Why,” exclaimed the Wolf proudly, “see how big I am! Fancy me running away from a puny Lion! I‘ll show him who is fit to be king, he or I.”

[dry sluice]

Death/Catch is cool.
Like, Death/Catch might already be enough deathmod to temper a Gossip. (Though maybe not in big games)

[fallow rapids]

not in big games yeah

Wolfshadow is Catch/Death but for solvability purposes. there‘s slightly more puzzle there and i quite enjoy how it affects people play

Catch notably also confounds yaggababble and witch. Death is only at night, so maybe it‘s helpful that way

Wolfshadow also shockingly works on BMR (though it is much harder than regular BMR and a lot of the time i suggest to just not use it even if in play)

quite regrettably Wolfshadow fucks over minstrel

[junior knot]

you could add sober and healthy

to the choosing player

if you really want

[fallow rapids]

for one character? mm

i suppose it also increases solvability

[junior knot]

it also makes it interesting with math

[fallow rapids]

that‘s a decent suggestion honestly

[junior knot]

and backsolving droison a bit

[fallow rapids]

could work

[dusty thistle]

I actually stole the main concept from another homebrewer, around a year ago

Their version let it happen once per night

[fallow rapids]

yeah it is one common idea

that‘s why we have so many 🙂‍↕️

[dusty thistle]

https://www.reddit.com/r/BloodOnTheClocktower/s/e0u9FYO0Ak
Here's the thread

I mean, why hasn't TPI picked up this idea yet? They've got a fabled to cover lacking o-mod, info, and misinfo. Deathmod would complete the quartet.

[fallow rapids]

except for dayprot

:p

[dusty thistle]

Good point.

[fallow rapids]

yeah fair enough

honestly a dedicated daymod character would actually be pretty mid

dayprot is pretty delicate as id

[dusty thistle]

Public Defender (Fabled): Once per game, a player might not die by execution.

Yeah, this one is weaker.

Just use a DA man, it's not hard.

[fallow rapids]

honestly this kinda just screws with science

[dusty thistle]

I think it's just a worse DA

[fallow rapids]

it is yeah

[dusty thistle]

However, it does work as a lleech confound!

(Ignore the possibility of double tapping)

[fallow rapids]

making a fabled for one character is really funny

shows you how wonderful lleech is

[fiery sleet]

Worm (Fabled): Once per game, do any one thing to make Lleech's life less miserable.

[dusty thistle]

Time is sight

[uneven field]

someone make a fabled to fix my broken marriage

[dense moat]

Divorce (Fabled):

[dusty thistle]

I really doubt anyone got the reference I just made.

[uneven field]

no no let her cook

I want a Divorcee character just for the fall out boy reference potential

[junior knot]

hey we found a confound for EaIH

yes i will keep bringing this up indefinitely

[dry sluice]

You could alter Death to like, "OPG, a player might die or be saved from death."
But that's a lot of confounding

[dense moat]

Divorce (Fabled): Each day, 1 player may publicly divorce another. The divorced player might be executed (twice) or die (once).

[uneven field]

I need a fabled that adds reasons for people to visit the storyteller to fix the issue caused by my homebrew characters that visit the storyteller but are evil and the related bluffing that away problem

[dense moat]

Best I got lol

[dusty thistle]

Duchess!

[junior knot]

Divorce should just you break up a rev pair

[dusty thistle]

[uneven field]

is duchess visit the storyteller?

[junior knot]

yes

[dusty thistle]

*fabled duchess

[uneven field]

I've only ever seen it run as public announcement

[low burrow]

Duchess

Each day, 3 players may choose to visit you. At night*, each visitor learns how many visitors are evil, but 1 gets false info.

**Type: **Fabled

[dense moat]

Incentive (Fabled); All players wear electric collars that shock them at dusk. Each day, players may visit the Storyteller to learn a code that disarms the shock.

[uneven field]

I like this

[junior knot]

https://tenor.com/view/skeletor-jokes-on-you-im-into-that-he-man-gif-19093194

[uneven field]

so like

what does this solve

[dusty thistle]

Just don't visit the ST

[next marlin]

Your marriage, ez

[dense moat]

Marriage

[uneven field]

😭

solving my marriage the way does it

[dense moat]

(also it’s a SIX joke. And yes, I will refer to it as SIX and not Henry the 8th)

[next marlin]

Technically less permanent

[uneven field]

don't worry don't worry don't lose your head

[dense moat]

Why do you think there’s a Demon in town?

[fiery sleet]

Friend (Fabled): Something bad might happen to players who aren't friendly to the Storyteller.

[uneven field]

can we circle back to this I want to make my players wear shock collars

[dense moat]

“can we circle back to this I want to make my players girlfriends wear shock collars?”

-Cass, possibly

[uneven field]

perfect screenshot

cinema

[next marlin]

Because the pithag and I called one down upon the mortal realm from within the majestic ruins on the fringes of Ravenswood Bluff in which we lurk. Next question

[uneven field]

I'll gladly shock my boyfriends and theyfriends too

[dense moat]

Fair, im just used to sapphic transfems

Or rather, fully sapphic transfems

[uneven field]

typecast

I'm aroace I just act like a freak

[junior knot]

Double Jeopardy (Fabled): One player cannot nominate the same player two days in a row.

[dry sluice]

Smoke Screen: ST visits may be done via messaging. During the day, each player must constantly fiddle with their phone.

[junior knot]

cough cough Sex and Violence

[uneven field]

what about it

[fallow rapids]

Stop (Fabled)

The Storyteller is not allowed to run off-script Atheist, elaborate Amnesiac rules, scripts with over 3 jinxes, and the other 38 and counting things as defined in the Storyteller Contract. If the Storyteller does this anyway, the players may pelt the Storyteller with rocks.

hey, watson. cinder block

[uneven field]

people often don't understand this (in fairness it is strange), I do not experience sexual attraction or romantic attraction, but I experience a secret third type of attraction that is less committal

[fallow rapids]

i experience attraction but it‘s as strong as a feldspar

it‘s like being aroace but incredibly neutral

arospectacular

[uneven field]

some people are hot, they are hot in subjective ways according to my personal preference that can be measured

[junior knot]

[uneven field]

yes

[uneven field]

this is in no way a romantic or sexual metric

[junior knot]

its a measure of how pathetic they are, right?

[uneven field]

no

[fallow rapids]

Fahrenheit 451 (Fabled)

If a player is hot, the air conditioning may be turned on.

[uneven field]

there was a guy I met recently who I thought was attractive until he asked me to buy him alcohol because he was too young and the patheticness of that display made me disinterested

[junior knot]

well there is a difference between pathetic and a minor

[uneven field]

I am 18 he is 17 this was in the Netherlands before anyone starts poking holes

[fiery sleet]

Janitor (Fabled): Something good might happen to players who clean the blood off the clocktower.

[fallow rapids]

Waste Basket (Fabled)

Use the character ability format to shitpost. Use it more.

[junior knot]

Poisoner 2: Electric Boogaloo (Fabled)
|| || The storyteller may lie to any player at any time for any reason.

[fiery sleet]

That's called atheist

[uneven field]

*fabled fibbin

[low burrow]

Fibbin

Once per game, 1 good player might get incorrect information.

**Type: **Fabled

[dense moat]

wait im conufsued. Isnt that true to some extent of all sexual or romantic attraction?

whats the difference in your mind, from more conventional attraction?

[junior knot]

no. heterosexual attraction is purely a metric of how big the bazongas are

/j

[uneven field]

it's true in those two cases and also in my separate third case

[uneven field]

most men tend to have very small bazongas so I don't think that's the metric

[junior knot]

it depends what you mean by bazonga

[uneven field]

I don't want to have sex with people, for a very firm and easy distinction

romance is harder to describe, but like, I kind of just don't get it? the way people describe romantic attraction is incorrect to my experience in a way I can't understand, and I wouldn't want to do anything with anyone I'm "attracted" to that I wouldn't do with a platonic friend

there may as well be no distinction there whatsoever, there is no difference in boundary of intimacy

[fallow rapids]

i think i get romance but i don’t seek it out

does this make sense

[uneven field]

the distinction may very well be that I'm aroace but like to have fun in ways that others traditionally reserve for romance, but also I'm slightly vain in the ways I pick who I want to have fun with

and a quick shorthand for that is "that guy's hot, I want to kiss him"

[fallow rapids]

inch resting

[uneven field]

id kiss any of my friends and have the same amount of fun doing it

I have on numerous occasions

[fallow rapids]

society would be better if you could wear a fancy clothing and treat your friend to dinner without having a romantic context

[uneven field]

I've kissed a lot of people and it has never meant anything more to me than "this is fun," sparks have never flown

I worry about this, because if someone were to be genuinely romantically attracted to me, I could theoretically give them everything they want out of that relationship short of sex, but I couldn't offer them exclusivity and it would never mean as much to me as it would to them

I feel like I'd be leading them on

[fiery sleet]

I mean, you still can if the friend in question understands the vibe

[uneven field]

and there'd be no way for me to not do that without clipping my wings, because that would be like your best friend telling you you can't have any other friends

from my pov

[fallow rapids]

yes but some people are quite nosy

[uneven field]

fuck them

[fallow rapids]

i‘m actually quite unattracted to those people

so i sincerely wouldn’t

[uneven field]

alright

kill them

[fallow rapids]

agreeable

[junior knot]

wait what about marry?

[fallow rapids]

idk i‘m taken

[uneven field]

id love to take my friends on dates and hold their hands and kiss them that would be really fun

but they would get the wrong idea

[fallow rapids]

wait this was about fabled

[uneven field]

this can be about anything

[fallow rapids]

true...

[uneven field]

secret thing

the secret thing is kissing

[fallow rapids]

secreter thing in #sects-and-violets thread

[uneven field]

we can be loosey goosey with the rules in this thread, there are barely rules in this thread

[junior knot]

Pause (Fabled)
One player may invoke Pause, and the game stops until unpaused. Bad things may happen to those who discuss the game while it is paused.

[uneven field]

is that a thing???

[junior knot]

For when you really need a bathroom break

[fallow rapids]

no

[uneven field]

are you guys hiding the kissing thread in the one channel I'm guaranteed not to look

id be so fucking mad

[fallow rapids]

well

[junior knot]

quick lets spam SW emojis in SnV before cass looks

[uneven field]

😭

[fallow rapids]

what if #off-topic secretest thing thread

no one is going to look there

[uneven field]

can anyone just start any thread

[fallow rapids]

yeah

[uneven field]

...

[junior knot]

The true secretest thing thread of all #botc-memes

[junior knot]

the mods may intervene, but generally

[fallow rapids]

lmao #off-topic message

i mean a thread in off-topic should be safe right

[uneven field]

I have made a thread

all the cool people will be added to it

(you can ask)

[fallow rapids]

1 quabillion threads

(may i)

[uneven field]

yes

[low umbra]

Just make it clear that the virgin problem isn’t fun and try to get players to not lean into it. Idk, it’s kinda fine when not everyone crowds around the confirmed virgin and it’s a more fun game for everyone

[low umbra]

Because less experienced players cannot solve it lol

[uneven field]

[9/12] To satisfy Lord Chaos, a jinx must be removed from the game, never to be replaced. The choice falls upon you. Which? Why?

[warped urchin]

Well

Am I sane and normal?

Pithag heretic 🗣

[supple dirge]

Alright I'll take the easy layup and say al-had princess

[fallow rapids]

/
/
/

all 6 need to get ‘d

[modern plume]

Mathematician/Drunk.

Thank you Lord Chaos, you are a merciful and benevolent being.

[fallow rapids]

/ should also go tbh

[modern plume]

I like how the description here is to make them seem villainous, but really, Lord Chaos clearly is looking out for us here.

[fallow rapids]

agreed

[uneven field]

Lord Chaos is not an antagonistic force strictly speaking

Lord Chaos has like one deal, and it is not morality

also wow I didn't know mathematician had those jinxes

seriously??

when?

[modern plume]

Even Lord Chaos is stunned at the chaos permitted by such jinxes

[fallow rapids]

math and “might” is a terrible idea

[uneven field]

magician has some ass jinxes too now that I'm looking at it

these did not used to be here

what is the point of

completely unnecessary jinx

[warped urchin]

As it work the same way but simply be unjinxed or should the sage never see the recluse?

[uneven field]

is not already RAW???

[warped urchin]

Its RAI

Strictly speaking the sage has to learn the demon that killed them

And since the recluse cant kill

Raw it can't learn them

[fallow rapids]

sage should never see the recluse

imagine dying n5 and getting fucked anyway

it‘s a jinx that adds feelsbad

[warped urchin]

I mean

[uneven field]

id argue "it" modifies "the demon" and not "kills you" in the sage ability text

[warped urchin]

Thats the way those two were supposed to interact

It was just never codified until lately

[uneven field]

"X should never see the recluse because it's feelsbad" is a crazy take

[fallow rapids]

i just think the jinx is wack

for one i think it just genuinely makes the interaction less interesting

let sage be strong on a script /shrug

if you want a confoundable death role use ravenkeeper

[uneven field]

it is strong

and recluse is big misinfo

this is the balance

[fallow rapids]

genuinely disagree that sage needs the balance

i don‘t see a point where you would need a misreg-considering sage and not RK

[uneven field]

script specific issue

[fallow rapids]

it makes scripting Sage and Recluse harder

[uneven field]

anyways this is my answer because ???

wtf was TPI cooking

[fallow rapids]

i don’t understand magi viz

for one, immune is not a keyword

what the fuck does that mean

it must be different from “safe”

[uneven field]

yeah like can the vizier not push through nominations made by the magician???

can the magician be pushed but not die? can they not be pushed at all?

[modern plume]

If I had to guess, the intent was that "Demon can just talk to their Vizier to find out the Minions"

But like... anyone could do that to mess with the Vizier then potentially? Just fake being Demon as the Magician.

However, the jinx does make some sense in 1 Minion games where Vizier is the only Minion...? Since Magician just doesn't have much of an ability there?

[fallow rapids]

i didn‘t put it in my list because it should be reworded, not deleted forever

[uneven field]

hot take (that Ben Burns has stated publicly): not every bad interaction needs a jinx, just like, don't put them in the bag together?

[fallow rapids]

it needs a jinx but the current makes 0 sense whatsoever

[uneven field]

I think it does not need a jinx

[fallow rapids]

for me this doesn’t work, just see scripts with like. 3 evil generators. trying to build a bag in there only gives you like 3 possible bags

[uneven field]

honestly I think you can put vizier and magician in the bag together and in most cases it's still fine

honestly I think you can put vizier and magician in the bag together and in most cases it's still fine

[fallow rapids]

the correct answer is “don’t make bad scripts”

which i mean in that scenario just don‘t jinx at all

[uneven field]

it's only a problem here in one minion games, in which case build a better bag

[uneven field]

make better scripts

holy bad internet

[fallow rapids]

yes

agree

[uneven field]

some (most) jinxes are good and valid

[fallow rapids]

are you lagging that much

[uneven field]

yes

I'm at sea

[uneven field]

recluse and ogre can be on the same script together and that should be accommodated, other interactions just suck severely to the point we shouldn't bother

[next marlin]

It specifically modifies "that kills you" so you can't sink sage pings into spent fangs gu/random good demons/other ways to have multiple demons on homescript

[uneven field]

magician vizier is a secret third thing entirely where it's actually just fine

[fallow rapids]

honestly agreed

[uneven field]

it's such a non issue, it's only ever a problem in the very niche circumstance where you've built a truly hall of fame broken script

in which case you're already tossing jetsam off a sinking ship

[fallow rapids]

personally if you have more than 3 jinxes on script (excluding sensible alch/pd whatever jinxes) you‘re not doing very well

[uneven field]

okay well let's not take it that far

[fallow rapids]

i mean ideally you have less reading info on your script

[modern plume]

Then there's jinxes that aren't just good, but fantastic and just allow for amazing script possibilities.

[uneven field]

me and all my jinx heavy scripts

[modern plume]

Mastermind + Lleech is a fantastic jinx.
-# It just needs to be worded better

Just as is, it's a jinx that makes the two work together. Nothing special on its own.
But it allows throwing in Vortox to suddenly make a whole new genre for the Mastermind.

[uneven field]

wait when did they change lleech heretic?

[fallow rapids]

like to me this is fine

[modern plume]

Around the same time as all the other major jinx changes I think?

[uneven field]

wait when did they change boomdandy??

[lean isle]

I think at same time

[modern plume]

Around the same time as all the other major jinx changes I think?

[uneven field]

someone needs to give me a full list because it isn't on the changelog

[fallow rapids]

but this is Holy Yap

[modern plume]

Wow, Lord Chaos is in shambles over the chaos here, this is too much for them.

[lean isle]

Which was like 2 months ago

[fallow rapids]

lmao i love how the alch grimpeek jinxes are so ridiculously long

[modern plume]

Does this work here...

-jinx

[digital drum]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/904250103588597790/1427728667089436854/jinx_rules_1.png?ex=68efeb70&is=68ee99f0&hm=0a3c485f166c66644deb454532cd9b7c45afe8ad4b258df42fefb90ce1d7cf90&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=769&height=693

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/904250103588597790/1427728668305915934/jinx_rules_2.png?ex=68efeb70&is=68ee99f0&hm=2a1275fe75f59266c2d58d59cd22234f0c47516b50f0a2770dab4ba101f1b0ea&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=791&height=693

[modern plume]

Cool

[uneven field]

is good, the other three are garbage

[fallow rapids]

the other three are mid

[uneven field]

to be clear I am not Lord Chaos

[fallow rapids]

alch wraith is pretty ass

[lean isle]

Here's list of changelog posted with update https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1r2D6hSD0utUfUzhHFEbERXG5vMN2rgFYEOO9JdRZqZQ/edit?gid=1614912698#gid=1614912698

[uneven field]

ty

[uneven field]

I know I'm not that pretty but I'm not THAT not that pretty

[fallow rapids]

here is my creepypasta. i hope it‘s not too scary

[uneven field]

why are so many of the new jinxes worse

I'm in shambles reading these

[warped urchin]

Consistency

[fallow rapids]

alhad SW doesn‘t even fix the problem

you still can revive indefinitely until final 5

it‘s. so stupid

[uneven field]

I don't remember exactly what legion engineer used to be, but I swear it was better

[warped urchin]

If they make legion most players become evil legion

Can't start in a legion game

[uneven field]

yes, better

now engineer picks legion and evil is just invariably fucked

[fallow rapids]

this one rocks though (RAI jinx)

[uneven field]

this is new

[fallow rapids]

yeah

[uneven field]

and welcome

[fallow rapids]

very normal and good

[uneven field]

took them way too long

[modern plume]

Mastermind is like one of the few characters that's getting only good jinxes.

[warm gate]

did you see Magician-Legion 😭

[fallow rapids]

this one is pretty good. best new summoner jinx

[uneven field]

too bad it's on zero custom scripts

[fallow rapids]

(many summoner jinxes kinda suck)

[uneven field]

yes and I hate it

[fallow rapids]

(this one is good though i like it)

[warm gate]

that's an older jinx but it's great

[modern plume]

What's on zero custom scripts?

[warped urchin]

Thats been there a while

[fallow rapids]

didn’t they reword it

[warped urchin]

I don't think so

[warm gate]

maybe? but even if they did the effect of the jinx is the same

[modern plume]

Wait, did you mean Mastermind? o.O

[uneven field]

isn't this old

[fallow rapids]

okay so

ignore what i said about new summoner jinx

[uneven field]

mastermind

I'm the one mastermind fan I swear

[modern plume]

Minuit a Fond la Caisse, Mind Your Step, Executionology, Ride the Cyclone

Three of those use the trio of Mastermind, Lleech, and Vortox

[uneven field]

typecast

[fallow rapids]

i think these are all the new ones

• this

a lot of this are. eh

(not good )

[fallow rapids]

lmao

they added 4 words at the end

[uneven field]

was that a necessary change?

[fallow rapids]

standardisation ig

[uneven field]

lot of pencil pushing and paper shuffling going on at TPI Tower

all those s in fancy fur coats

so glad we have a liver emoji now btw

[fallow rapids]

it‘s released now btw

silly me releasing things not a friday because i had to run my mouth lmao

[low umbra]

/
Not chaotic, but like… yeah

[grizzled marsh]

Engineer just made two scarlet women, it’s not that bad for evil

[uneven field]

while removing all their abilities, all their agency to kill, and the threat of evil rising up with votes

and that's only at high player counts, there are many games where the tradeoff is just one pseudo scarlet woman

[hollow oasis]

Well

Then do multikills

Have a shab cmon I know you want to

[uneven field]

so it's a jinx that creates a problem that the ST has to find a creative solution for to unfuck the game

as opposed to the old jinx, which was completely serviceable

listen I'm a TPI fan but they kind of fucked it with the jinx reform

[fiery sleet]

I use it all the time idk what you mean

[uneven field]

people are hiding the good scripts from me

on purpose, no doubt, to fuck with me

[hollow oasis]

Everyone turning into legion sucks so hard

“Let’s never vote, the game”

[uneven field]

that is a regular legion game

you are complaining about legion in general

[hollow oasis]

If it’s outed yes

[uneven field]

the old jinx just creates a natural legion state

[hollow oasis]

It means a good player knows it’s legion

[uneven field]

and also only if the engineer willingly chooses to do so

[uneven field]

no

[hollow oasis]

It’s like having a chef 7 for free

[hollow oasis]

I’m not making that engineer legion

[uneven field]

so you're complaining about your own STing

[hollow oasis]

“Let’s randomly have a legion game, town already thinks it’s not legion”

Literally both options suck

-outed legion

-or

-town dies because the one person who knows what happened is legion now

[uneven field]

a regular legion game

[hollow oasis]

Evils have bluffs set

So, not really

[uneven field]

and reminder, this is all on the engineer here

[hollow oasis]

Yes

I find the option unfun

[uneven field]

whereas new jinx is just engineer's optimal play

[hollow oasis]

The engineer can risk a shabaloth with an SW

[uneven field]

in literally zero worlds is that what is running through anyone's mind, ST inclusive

[hollow oasis]

i mean you can also deal with “literally mafia” but votefails I guess

I’m picking one or the other

(Thank god engineer is drunk in legion)

[uneven field]

old jinx is serviceable but bad to the point you can put engineer and legion on a script together without it technically breaking, new jinx may as well be "do not put these on the same script"

[hollow oasis]

Literally no

Votefails are barely existent unless evil outs

[uneven field]

new jinx literally just debones the evil team

[hollow oasis]

You don’t have to kill legion at night

You can kill multiple times

[uneven field]

I know and it's still bad

[hollow oasis]

You have multiple demons

[hollow oasis]

This is better than lil monsta

[uneven field]

no because in LM they have abilities

[hollow oasis]

Now we have sheer unkillability

and maybe multikills

[uneven field]

and the threat that evil can rise up on final day, which is a major factor in getting good to be paranoid about votes

[hollow oasis]

Probably works on an ojo script

[hollow oasis]

Convince 1 good player

Not hard when that’s like

Most of town

[dusty thistle]

Just start killing at double or triple speed!

If the engineer makes legion, final 3 will be almost immediate

[tough silo]

the new jinx is meh, i liked the old one more.

[dense moat]

That shit happens anyways

[uneven field]

I feel like nobody's going for the chaotic choices

I don't know how Lord Chaos will feel about this

[fiery sleet]

for a little bit of trolling

[uneven field]

now THIS is something

[junior knot]

you want real chaos?

I'm tossing any/all of the / Extra evil jinxes

[uneven field]

Lord Chaos wants chaos, I'm just his earthly messenger

[junior knot]

no ykw, f it

begone all jinxes

/ / /

i guess you could maybe keep the PD one...

[uneven field]

removing is very fun

[uneven field]

???

that's the best one to gut

[junior knot]

yk fair

[uneven field]

the storyteller becomes the demon

[junior knot]

just let choose ST and you're golden

[junior knot]

especially boffin pd

[uneven field]

I do like the idea of the scarlet woman becoming lil monsta

do we pass her around?

does she need to be babysat?

does she want uppies?

[junior knot]

i feel like you may want to rephrase this?

[uneven field]

you feel wrong

Cass of all people does not play careful with how others can interpret what she says

[dusty thistle]

I'm going to answer this.

We've all gone for the best options, and the worst options, but we haven't yet gone for the chaotic option.

[uneven field]

do tell

[junior knot]

peeker/damsel?

[dusty thistle]

Not the option that makes crazy stuff happen, but the one that'll cause the most chaos

[junior knot]

peeker/gf/heretic/

[dusty thistle]

The jinx we spent years fighting for, the one that will make people very angry

[uneven field]

honestly I think this is low yield

[dusty thistle]

Dun dun duuuuuh

[uneven field]

satan

it's a good answer though, strictly from a wwLCd perspective

[supple dirge]

Spicy? Remove

[dusty thistle]

Imagine the riots that'll happen when TPI suddenly announces they're removing the jinx. Imagine the anger, the rage, the endless comments on online chat boards. Yes, music to my ears. MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[junior knot]

well you don't need to jinx it bc thats just how it works raw

[uneven field]

I think people might be misinterpreting what Lord Chaos' deal is, chaos here is the antithesis of order, the state of rulelessness

[junior knot]

or at least if you read it right

[dusty thistle]

-# also what is wwLCd

[uneven field]

what would Lord Chaos do, of course

[dusty thistle]

Cause chaos. Chaos here being large amounts of people fighting.

[uneven field]

no

[dusty thistle]

That's definitely not orderly.

[uneven field]

wrong definition of chaos

that is conflict

[zenith lotus]

hatter LM

[junior knot]

chaos hatter at home

[dusty thistle]

Hmm, if we want to cause as much confusion as possible we could remove the + jinx instea— oh wait a minute...

[zenith lotus]

more like, "yes i'd like to become the lil monsta"

[junior knot]

James Blunt at home

the way he gets passed around

[heavy sundial]

[finite wigeon]

Sage Recluse or Legion Magician

[junior knot]

** [12/10]: ** Who's the worst character to give access to a time machine? Why?

[shrewd cloud]

World domination and evil scheming’s probably a lot easier with a time machine

For the Mastermind

I could also see Snitch causing a lot of unintended future changes because they can’t keep their mouth shut in the past

[hollow oasis]

Lord of typhon

They grab like every minion in a line

We’re gonna fucking die

[foggy grotto]

magician legion not even close

[dusty thistle]

Klutz. They're going to cause a universe-ending paradox.

Or just break it, but do you really want to take that gamble?

[versed junco]

It's going to travel to the future and team up with its grown-up self, the Big Barnacle

[barren sun]

hate jinxes

[barren sun]

Self explanatory

[uneven field]

is it?

be like

be like

I think would do some truly fucked up shit with a time machine

worst one of all though

[barren sun]

Can keep rewishing to avoid the consequences

[lost thistle]

corollary question; which character is going back in time to the first thanksgiving to take the turkeys off the menu

[fiery sleet]

[warped urchin]

Eh

Pacifist doesnt seem like the type of person to actively go back in time to change something

Says he will during election campaigns but doesnt

[lost thistle]

they’ve had a plan for this before they even got it and im scared

[fiery sleet]

They want to make everyone vegetarian

[dense moat]

I’m terrified what they will blow up

Either that or Xaan going back to a hyper specific time and becoming all powerful

robot slaves are also pretty bad

[lost thistle]

kazali with a time machine would just be the final act of meet the robinsons

[fast anchor]

(11/12) inspired by discussion offserver - which is the most powerful townsfolk in a vaccuum?

-# and why is it the empath

[brittle bridge]

Dreamer

But a more interesting answer is probably either Village Idiot or Lycanthrope

Village idiot because it gets was is arguably the best information to have at any point in the game and Lycanthrope because it controls kills which synchronizes well with a lot of good roles in exchange for a very minor downside in most cases

[spiral pollen]

minstrel

[fallow rapids]

well

[versed junco]

gets to know exactly what everyone is!

[fallow rapids]

tbf the true answer is “there is usually never a vacuum”

the “most powerful townsfolk” is just dependent on everything else on script

i mean Philo is a character that is the best regardless of whatever other townsfolk you have on script so i think it counts as a character that is the best in a vacuum

[uneven field]

I know it's an outsider, but I think butler is the best with a vacuum because he has experience tending to an estate

chambermaid is also a contended

actually chambermaid is probably better than butler now that I'm thinking about it

[versed junco]

Counterpoint, we know chambermaid cleans at night from its flavour text, therefore she would not be using a vacuum so as to not wake anyone

[fiery sleet]

I believe that all townsfolk are equally powerless in a vacuum because they all require air to survive

[uneven field]

the flavour text mentions the chambermaid being on the estate at 11pm, nowhere does it specify she isn't working in the day

actually it says 11 o clock, so that could be morning

and historically speaking, the chambermaid would live on the property

[fiery sleet]

I think chambermaid would definitely use a vacuum if they were an established technology at the time

[fallow rapids]

Savant is most powerful in a vacuum since we all know that physicists prefer working in a vacuum

[uneven field]

we don't know for a fact that pixie needs to breathe

[uneven field]

wouldn't it be professor then?

[fallow rapids]

perhaps

[uneven field]

what about mathematician

[fallow rapids]

also uhh Banshee is already dead so they definitely don’t need to breathe either

mathematicians hate physics

[uneven field]

"imagine a completely spherical cow"

[uneven field]

physicists are mathematicians

the only difference is they have less sex

[uneven field]

(base mathematicians, I should have worded that better)

[barren sun]

[tidal quiver]

I'm gonna say gossip/chambermaid, I'm surprised people haven't already

honestly like half of BMR

[junior knot]

It's minstrel btw for anyone who hasn't tried making a minstrel custom work

[signal holly]

as the person who originally inspired this question, this is the correct but lame answer

I stand by my Empath answer but Minstrel probably does give it a run for its money

[fiery sleet]

Having done my level best to make stormcaught minstrel work, I don't think it's necessarily overpowered. Just very difficult to make it be balanced and lead to a coherent script.

[fallow rapids]

in a pressure vat of “optimal storyteller”, is pretty strong

[signal holly]

yeah but anything with heavy st agency shouldn’t end up as the vacuum strongest townsfolk because there’s a natural check on its power

[fiery sleet]

I mean, in the same conditions:

• Amnesiac sees the grimoire
• Bounty Hunter learns the demon immediately
• Fisherman is told who the demon is d1
• High Priestess sees the demon every night

[signal holly]

the original discussion that inspired this was about how FT is often oppressively strong on customs because it relies on the absurd medium-low info high misinfo landscape of TB to be balanced, and I was making the case that thats significantly more true for Empath

[fiery sleet]

Empath is somewhat less strong, because it might need to out itself to help town having only learned a minion and not the demon

[signal holly]

and I think Minstrel is for sure another character that fits in that “oppressively strong unless you specifically design a script to balance it out” bucket in a way that a lot of other sincerely powerful townsfolk still don’t quite reach

[fiery sleet]

gotcha

[cyan reef]

Minstrel is arguably oppressively strong in even BMR

[dusty thistle]

Absolutely. Almost hard confirming anyone who dies by execution if a death happens the next night is absurdly good.

[dense moat]

Probably , considering that everyone wins

More seriously, Courtier is also a bit of a contender? Part of BMR is the supporting framework that Courtier doesn’t outright dominate when it hits

In a vacuum, Courtier can lose big, but it can also win big

[next marlin]

Having followed the original conversation I think this is near-objectively true about Empath because, if nothing else, the script the conversation was about is balanced through slightly evilsided with Fortune Teller, and was markedly goodsided when it had Empath

Which is a natural experiment if there ever was one

[dusty thistle]

, easy. It's the only townsfolk who's winrate is almost 100%

Also it has by far the most script-warping potential of any townsfolk, with the exception of amnesiac

It has by far the most weight of any character in clocktower (a character's prevelance on the script).

It is also the second most versatile townsfolk in clocktower, behind amne

[junior knot]

well FT also has built in misinfo for one

two, FT more advances the ultimate wincondition, but empath has more immediately actionable info, given the amount of engagement/voting players can still have when dead

executing any evil will limit evils voting power making it easier to execute the demon

i will also add, are we considering the empath tokens uncanny ability to suck evil tokens in next to it

like there's a reason its a drunk magnet on TB

Not to mention it gets more concrete info than FT, being ternary rather than binary

[heavy sundial]

philo-lunatic 💯

[fleet hedge]

yeah it's definitely atheist

[dry sluice]

does anyone have an anecdotal winrate for serious Puzzle Atheist?

other than , as someone who usually plays 1-minion games, the most powerful Townsfolk is IMO. If you ask me a different day, I'll say

[fleet hedge]

that winrate will really heavily depend on the ST

my hot (not actually sure how hot now) take is that 50% winrate Atheist is brilliant

[karmic rose]

I think one can make a reasonable case for any of Empath/Gossip/Chambermaid/Clockmaker/Minstrel/Lycanthrope/Poppygrower being the strongest townsfolk

[junior knot]

Mayor too NGL

[dusty thistle]

Since when has anyone ever believed the mayor?

[junior knot]

I will say, outside a vacuum, math can eliminate a lot of worlds

[karmic rose]

the empath and Poppygrower (sans alternate ruling) in particular are fairly resistant to transient droison

[junior knot]

Vacuum

[dusty thistle]

Ahh.

[finite wigeon]

Well Idk about Mayor

bc if you're a trusted good player in f3, your odds of winning are (by random chance) 50/50

Even if the whole town trusts you, depending on how evil plays or their current boardstate good still can't guarantee a victory.

[dusty thistle]

https://www.reddit.com/r/BloodOnTheClocktower/s/W2LZ6eLgRR
Ah right, reminded me of this old puzzle.

[fiery sleet]

12/12: Which clocktower character would you be most likely to be friends with if they were real?

[junior knot]

they can just sponsor my art and i can just chill

(art in this case being custom botc scripts ofc)

[next marlin]

as literally-the-Cerenovus-irl, I'm unsure whether the answer is Cerenovus or if it's one of the cere's friends ( possibly and depending how you define 'friends')

[fiery sleet]

I think I would get along well with , we both enjoy quiet contemplation and value silence and attentive listening

[supple dirge]

Based on my irl friends or

[modern plume]

I mean... this one is obvious for me.

[barren sun]

Now I feel like I'm boring lol

I'd probably try to befriend others like and
Specially,

[pastel prism]

also a kind of boring answer

[tough silo]

smoking that zaza

[fiery sleet]

Well the question isn't just which ones you would seek out, but also whether they would want to be friends with you too

Relationship is a two-way street

[barren sun]

I feel wouldn't like me

[modern plume]

I don't think my answer changes.

-# If anything, if the question were reversed, which person here would a role want to be friends with... I'm the one Mathematician might pick.

[supple dirge]

[12/13] What characters would you put together for a wacky sitcom and what would it be like?

[modern plume]

Grandmother + Goblin

The story of a drunk grandmother adopting a goblin and neither of them being happy about the situation.

[uneven field]

a day late to this one but I'll float some answers

going down the list

I used to be friends with and I am definitely no longer friends with

definitely friends with

id have some good chats with but I don't know if I'd be friends

I'm friends with

for sure

maybe

[foggy grotto]

[fiery sleet]

+ : The mastermind is constantly trying to set up their engineer friend with another one of their friends, shenanigans ensue

[shrewd cloud]

The Investigator and their partner, who is secretly the Spy, investigate evil. The Spy has to find increasingly silly and elaborate ways to sabotage the Investigator

[junior knot]

& 's boyfriends have gone missing, and they go on a quest to find them

along the way, they find something else

https://tenor.com/view/kp02-gif-7893448

[dusty thistle]

& A case of mistaken identity results in the magician getting given the baby. Cue numerous hilarious attempts by the magician to kill the night-invulnerable baby, none of which are successful.

[junior knot]

isnt this an adam sandler movie?

[dusty thistle]

Hey, no art is original.

[uneven field]

[dense moat]

https://tenor.com/view/death-note-light-yagami-l-death-note-death-note-op1-anime-aesthetic-gif-24369695

[dense moat]

met on a job & theirs romantic tensions between them but neither admits it for like 3 seasons at least

Also, there's a gay ass subplot with & . is teaching to be less whimiscal prankster & they fall in love & there's tons of fanart of it

the cerators insist they're just friends tho

[fiery sleet]

+ probably could do a very funny workplace sitcom but it's a restaurant

[junior knot]

Isn't this just Hannibal?

[dense moat]

is the owner

[fiery sleet]

idk what that is

[fiery sleet]

yeah chef is a side character that's usually too busy to engage in shenanigans