secret thing

[pastel prism]

i mostly meant YSK there but yeah, that's all it boils down to in the end but some characters do it in fancier more headache inducing ways than others

[karmic rose]

we need an evil and intimidating horse demon too

[pastel prism]

(not insulting the fancier more headache inducing ones tho)

[pastel prism]

hold on is it the one that removes all the men and makes lesbians divorce people and then if everyone's divorced evil wins?

[fleet hedge]

does feel a bit weak tbh

[karmic rose]

Exactly!!!

[fleet hedge]

but like I think all Townsfolk should theoretically be at a similar power level

[pastel prism]

all of these for example have their own advantages and tradeoffs

[karmic rose]

I disagree -- I think all townsfolk should help the good team in tangible ways and that no townsfolk should feel like a strictly worse version of another, but some variability in strength is ok, especially when a townsfolk can be weak into one evil team but strong into another

[pastel prism]

i think it's best for townsfolk to potentially be stronger or weaker than each other in certain situations but similar power-levels in a broader sense

[karmic rose]

this is probably pretty weak on your median script and truly useless on, like, solo al-had with loud minions

but it's great with legion

[pastel prism]

Steward's the most basic one and learns an exact player but not which character, Washerwoman learns an exact townsfolk character but only 1 of 2 players, librarian's the same but outsiders, grandmother learns an exact townsfolk and exact player but can cause extra deaths, and Knight learns 2 players who BOTH aren't demon candidates, but can potentially still be evil

[thorny summit]

I think good scripts generally have similar power levels throughout their townsfolk, but strength is very script dependent

[acoustic chasm]

i think often steward is weaker than washerwoman... but

some scripts can't accomadate washerwoman

others can

steward can be made useless by spy

[karmic rose]

right, some characters are currently just strictly worse versions of others (steward/WW, knight/FT, seam/artist)

[acoustic chasm]

but washerwoman at least has the spy needing to either cold-read an exact bluff

or make it obvious to the washerwoman that something is funky

[karmic rose]

also Washerwoman is bidirectional confirmation while steward is one way

[acoustic chasm]

ye

washerwoman is stronger

[karmic rose]

Ye

[acoustic chasm]

hm

[pastel prism]

i agree with yall but i shall point out the edge case of the townsfolk being evil because Bounty Hunter just to be annoying >:3

[acoustic chasm]

Aldakar - Each day, if you publicly guess which Minions & Demons are in play, the Storyteller announces you are correct.

[pastel prism]

but then again, the washerwoman knowing their true character is still really strong incase the evil townsfolk chooses to bluff something else so it doesn't really change much

[acoustic chasm]

i like making homebrew

probably easier to guess than alsaahir so probably a great deal stronger

it's also a bit eh to bluff

that's the same as alsaahir

[karmic rose]

Yeah, if they wake at night when they guess correctly that makes it bluffable?

[acoustic chasm]

yeah

you can definitely go that direction

Each night, guess which Minions & Demons are in play: you learn if you're correct.

[pastel prism]

||i can't help but think about Scholar tbh, since it literally just starts knowing which Minions and Demons are in play||

[acoustic chasm]

Muse - On your 1st day, the Storyteller asks you a yes/no question. If you guess correctly, learn another question.

[dry sluice]

I want more Townsfolk with a self-contained puzzle or self-misinfo.
Example: Fortune Teller's red herring.

Because then the Townsfolk can get a lot of information, without being too strong

[acoustic chasm]

ye

that's the same vein as weaker townsfolk

[dry sluice]

For example, (speculated character) ||Poet||

[pastel prism]

would Savant count?

[acoustic chasm]

not quite

I think Savant is similar to Noble

It gets perfectly great information

But... the information can be misinterpreted if evil bluff well enough

[dry sluice]

I like Savant a lot, but I don't think it really has self-misinfo

How do I put this... the Fortune Teller adds entropy to the Grimoire. Its info isn't a function of the Grimoire: it's a function of both the Grimoire, and an extra hidden variable that it added

I hear Town of Salem added a role that's basically a repeated Seamstress, except it doesn't know which of "yes" or "no" correspond to "same alignment" and "different alignment." That's another neat example, even if it's not BotC

[pastel prism]

modded town of salem has that, not regular ToS
but true!

[acoustic chasm]

ah

i also made a homebrew character like that

i don't think that's self misinfo either. that's more similar to savant

[pastel prism]

sad that this character is still too OP though since i love the concept

[low umbra]

‘Vortox and xaan, you’re welcome’

[fast anchor]

[25/10] Make a Loric!

[karmic rose]

Mural Painter (Loric): something good might happen to anyone who creates a game-related doodle.

(my group always has a drunk empath on the whiteboard)

[pastel prism]

Typist (Loric)
"Each night*, if most players (including most evil players) privately agree, up to three words in a character's ability text are altered at dawn."

this is shit but the idea's there

[coarse fern]

Pumpkin (Loric): The player who is currently the spookiest cannot die

All my idea btw

[grizzled marsh]

Tbf an alternative view of the puzzlemaster is to see the puzzlemaster as a townsfolk and consider the puzzledrunk player to be the outsider

[barren sun]

Emissary (Loric) : On the final day, one player may privately ask who the demon is.

I don't know how to word this without unnecessary ly extending the wording, but basically 1 player publicly asks to go talk to the Storyteller to "read the message" in private. Players may discuss who should read it, who's most trustworthy, who should definitely not read it cause thet are surely evil, but at the end, whoever's asks first just gets it

[karmic rose]

Shambler (Loric): One character is a different character type.

[low umbra]

*characters may belong to different types than normal
Maybe?

[karmic rose]

no no i just want to justify my bullshit "barista is a minion" bmrlike

[next marlin]

fyf

[karmic rose]

i should try homebrew sometime huh

[pure meadow]

Star draws their character almost every game (even in livetext) and I love the doodles every time so Im all for encouraging that :3

[pure meadow]

I love Martin Blackwood :D

[foggy grotto]

Conspiracy (Loric)
“All good players might start knowing each other. If so, whoever wins, loses & whoever loses, wins.”

good legion is my favorite homebrew concept and i really hope they add it one day

[sharp violet]

An evil player draws it this time so the Empath becomes drunk

Necromancy (Loric): Players may give vote tokens to each other. Any dead player who has 3 or more vote tokens loses them and returns to life.

[hollow oasis]

(Loric):If there are 3 outsiders, they may be replaced by a minion and 2 Townsfolk.

(Loric):Setup text may instead apply later in the game.

[sharp violet]

Ah... You're too young to die. Perhaps we can be of assistance?

Necromancy lets ghosts work together to bring each other back.

How to Run:
During the day, any player with a vote token may declare they are giving it to any other player. Transfer the vote token from the first player to the second.

If any dead player has 3 or more vote tokens at any time, immediately take all the vote tokens they have and they return to life. If this happens at night, do not inform them of the loss of their vote tokens until the day.

If an alive player with vote tokens dies, they gain one vote token of their own, and do not lose any previously acquired vote tokens.

Examples:

The Mastermind and the Lunatic, both of which are dead, each give their vote token to the Assassin, who is also dead. The Assassin loses their own vote token as well as the vote tokens given by the Mastermind and the Lunatic, and returns to life.

Jeremy the Mathematician and Dan the Klutz each give their vote token to Ian the Dreamer, who is still alive. When Caiden the Vigormortis attacks Ian, Ian dies, gains his own vote token, then since he has 3 vote tokens, loses them and returns to life. Ian still gets to act that night.

Notable Interactions:

The Beggar is an interesting character to pair with Necromancy. There are 2 ways this can be run: either 1) Players must declare which ability they are using to give a vote token to the Beggar, and the Beggar loses all vote tokens gained from their own ability when they die, or 2) All tokens given to the beggar vis Necromancy trigger the Beggar's ability regardless of the life status of the giver, and the Beggar does not intrinsically lose held vote tokens when they die. Choose whichever one you think will make the game more fun!

Necromancy may be used to protect the Demon, depending on how you run it. If you so wish, you can have an executed Demon holding 2 vote tokens gain their own vote token, then immediately spend them to return to life, all before the game is able to end due to there being no living Demon!

Beware of characters that create dead Demons, such as Imp, Scarlet Woman, and Fang Gu with this Loric! If a dead Demon returns to life, there are now 2 living Demons, which can very easily cause problems!

[uneven field]

this was inevitable

[uneven field]

that's the Chinese actor homebrew and it's great

the two lorics that we have up to this point that aren't bootlegger are in practice minor supplementary rule changes that don't completely alter the DNA of a game, so I think if I'm making a loric I'd have to keep that design philosophy in mind

I'll have to think on it

[uneven field]

Delegate (Loric):
On the third day, players form delegations with a minimum membership of two (excluding Travellers). Only one member of a delegation may vote at a time, but votes count for as many members there are in the voter's delegation, including the dead.

"Thank you for the floor, madame president. With respect to the previous delegate's comments, Ravenswood Bluff is facing a race against crisis."

it's a little wordy

alternatively you could do away with the "on the third day" and just have it be a loric that's meant to be put into play mid-game

you could probably also get rid of the "including the dead" at the end and clarify it in the almanac but I wanted to put it here to sort of explain the intention of the character

players a given a certain amount of time to get reads on everyone else before they all choose amongst themselves to be put into cliques, once they're formed they're set in stone and if any of you decides to raise their hand on a vote then ostensibly all of you do, it's nice because dead players sort of regain voting power without having to expend their dead vote and it also gives people social information based on how the delegations form

it helps evil because they can put themselves into delegations with good players and have a pseudo-butler thing going on, but it also hinders evil because it cuts both ways

[fallow rapids]

FUCK i had this one for Aesop's next week

in shambles

[uneven field]

use it to make the saint the demon

[barren sun]

[10/26]
Quick! Choose a BOTC character!
Now, very, very carefully, choose a 2nd BOTC character.
||You just set up these 2 characters on a date.||
How is it going down?

[dense moat]

Seamstress
Vigormortis

Canonically, the Seamtress is a real Gossip. I imagine it goes well at first. Vigor is charming in a sort of dark way. But he says too much. The next day, the Seamstress chatters about the weird guy she met going on about immortality

The day after that, she was found dead under mysterious circumstances

[foggy grotto]

Goon
Acrobat

They go out drinking and the acrobat tries to show off his skills while drunk. it surprisingly does well

[karmic rose]

milk leader
salsaahir

they balance each other out nicely, especially when one gets a little spicy

[junior knot]

Until ml gets arrested for embezzlement

He was skimming some off the top

[pastel prism]

Yaggababble
Gossip

They chat on and on and on about literally anything they can think of. The next day, the entire town except the two of them are dead.

[grizzled marsh]

Politician
Mathematician

The politician corrupted the mathematician to make her use statistics in ways favoring him, the mathematician agreed and is now using her influence to support the politician. The official version is that this was a date and nothing came out of it because the politician wasn't seduced, anyone trying to doubt the official version will be sued for defamation

[naive flame]

Huh..I wonder how this will go.. a Princess x Monster/Knight Trope??

There's also

(let's goo alcoholic Threesome /j)

[brittle bridge]

Atheist and Riot
I feel like the only option is they burn down a church

[fallow rapids]

ah! pacifist!

uh. DA

oh. well. they do need each other after all so it's probably toxic yuri

[fast anchor]

Pit-Hag
Boffin

||they stay inside and play board games together or something. afterwards they do mad science and blow the whole place up, but with every gain there must be a loss. big success :)||

[dusty thistle]

||"Uhhh... sorry about cutting your job?"||

[uneven field]

Ojo, Klutz

damn it I just set up two people I'm into with each other this is devastating

[uneven field]

very Norwegian death metal

[dense moat]

THe DIY HRT crew I see

[dense moat]

Polycule?

[uneven field]

I'm not hot enough to be one of three unfortunately

[karmic rose]

10/27: what's a character you've yet to seriously scriptbuild with, and why?

[low umbra]

Vortox because SnV does it better :p
Genuinely, it’s just cause vortox is kinda meh imo and I’m fine leaving the script building of it to other people

[dry sluice]

I love No Dashii, but it's so hard to fit it on a custom script. A No Dashii script almost requires Fang Gu for O-mod, and No Dashii clashes badly with most other misinfo characters

[dense moat]

Godfather. I dont really make a lot of death puzzles

and tend towards single kill Demons

[karmic rose]

I haven't yet found a Riot concept that excites me, but I think that's a pretty common answer. I'd never get to playtest an Atheist script, so that's also off the table.

There are also a few "centralizing" demons I like the concept of, but I think most such script archetypes already exist better than I could manage. Big Leviathan fan, but Levixaan/Cultists of Atlantis/HHR all exist; ditto Al-Had with Ride the Cyclone/Reptiles/TMO

[dense moat]

(also i doesnt help i feel forced to script assassin with it most times. im not that creative at scriptbuilding)

[karmic rose]

me when home-script interactions work well yeah i get you

[junior knot]

CC?

[dense moat]

Catfishing also is out there too, admitdly

[karmic rose]

ye, knowing it's a godfather doesn't auto-confirm all the outsider claims on either of those scripts

[dense moat]

But yeah, there are a few scripts taht use Godfather very creatively. The rest of the time, it still needs death mod, good script or not

Mostly just a consquenec of loud godfather needing other O-Mod

Loadbearning O-Mod & all that

[junior knot]

And other o mod doesn’t play super well with it. Not bad but not great

[dense moat]

The O-Mod Demons are fine. Thats part of how you get loud Godfather. But yeah, Baron & Xaan arent great with it

Godfather Vigor is cool. But enough about Godfathr. What else do people think about today's question?

[junior knot]

Golem. I just don’t really make yag scripts,

And just happened to haven’t built around it otherwise

[junior knot]

Pithag is fine, I guess.
But Boffin, I just don’t feel like keeping the demon from counter nomming in f3

Personal taste

Ik you can kill the Boffin but you shouldn’t have to

[dense moat]

Also you’d out yourself

And no one would ever vote on behalf of a Golem who nommed twice

[junior knot]

Depends if the target dies

But ig harpy could explain it

[dense moat]

But if someone claiming Golem nominates again, the bluff immediately falls apart

And so town just… doesn’t vote for that

[warped urchin]

Thats why you dont claim golem

And blame the death on harpy madness

[dense moat]

Fair

[karmic rose]

pit-hag golem is funny because the pit-hag self-turns into the golem going into f3 and just ends the game

[junior knot]

Why not make a second demon there

[karmic rose]

yeah fair

[warped urchin]

Because arbitrary deaths

The st will just kill one of them

The st cant arbitrary death a golem

[junior knot]

A one kill night would be unfair to not signal demon transfer

[karmic rose]

as opposed to leaving good unable to win???

final 4 at night, pit-hag creates a new demon -> kill either new demon or old and let town have a final 3

[dusty thistle]

Riot. Because I value my own sanity

I take back my statement about Riot ruining friendships, that's Atheist's job.

[low umbra]

Because ST discretion means that it’s not an auto win at all lol

It’s interesting that not many others have tried riot. I think midsy scripts are actually a decent place for solo riot, having made a riot midsy I’m actually kinda happy with

[sour harness]

Atheist

I've been trying

[junior knot]

Excuse you

Quadjank has atheist

[sour harness]

seriously

[junior knot]

Atheist isn’t a townsfolk. It’s a loric

[junior knot]

Wraith. feels redundant with spidow and doesn't really do enough unique to replace either

[warped urchin]

Wraith definitely works better in person I feel

I can just stare straight at my friends while they wake and then we all laugh and have fun

[cyan reef]

King/Choirboy

I always enjoyed the joke that King's ability is, "The Demon knows who you are. Halfway through the game, you die."

[uneven field]

wraith is very unique, it just doesn't lend itself to any format that isn't irl

it's a very cool character that unfortunately shouldn't ever be played online

they did a decent job translating it to the official app

there's a fair few characters I don't really use

[junior knot]

K/CB can be interesting to kill early if there are ways to junk the info

say imp/fg

but cannot go on scripts with evilsided nondemon kills

[uneven field]

I have a feeling there's about to be a whole lot more of them

[junior knot]

it just doesnt work unless its lm

[uneven field]

as fun as the idea of lorics is, I have a feeling they're about to drop eight characters I will never want to play with

storm catcher is great, but sees incredibly limited use

it's great because it's simple

bigwig and tor seem a little iffy gang, I don't know

[coarse fern]

Zombuul because holy fuck why is it like that

[tidal quiver]

lol so true

for me this is evil twin, I think it's super interesting but I can't picture any environment for it that doesn't look almost exactly like SNV with info overload and demon misinfo

[karmic rose]

i gotta work on my wraith/twin/boom script some more

[junior knot]

Is it on hhr, I honestly don’t remember

[karmic rose]

it is not

[coarse fern]

Amy nitro???

[karmic rose]

ye someone gave me some

so it's uh 29 days till i go back to complaining about being poor

[coarse fern]

Until then I’m sure there will be copious amounts of berks

[tidal quiver]

good to know, I will ping you every time anyone says anything I find funny so you can berk react for me

[karmic rose]

The Twins are (understandably) a feelsbad for a lot of players, since if you're executed as a twin and the game continues it usually means you're confirmed evil

[coarse fern]

@karmic rose

[tidal quiver]

@amy I agree with this message could you :baristatrue: react for me

smh pebbles got there first

[karmic rose]

this is less true on SnV because hagging the Evil Twin into a different minion is fairly common

so the good twin can be executed and the conclusion might be "oh, [other player] is now the Cerenovus"

[coarse fern]

Unfortunately pit hag and twin on a custom slowly turns into snv

[karmic rose]

true!!!

I've found that playing as a twin is more fun when town saves the twin pair until the demon is dead and buried

(which is also fairly common)

[coarse fern]

It’s also fun if you get turned into the demon after the demon is killed

Also pretty common lmao

[karmic rose]

true!

but levi/twins seems sad because town can just execute both twins on the first two days -- they lose their good player execution on it, but they aren't sinking all of their resources into solving the twin pair i'm stupid and was thinking of a different interaction ignore me

[warped urchin]

What

If they execute in the wrong order they lose?

[karmic rose]

wait i'm stupid

ignore me

[coarse fern]

Still sad bc most loud minions arent great with Levi

[karmic rose]

i did think through this interaction and concluded it sucks but it was for a different reason

[karmic rose]

oh also minstrel

[warped urchin]

Minstrel is hard to scriptbuild

Its very easy to make it way too good

[karmic rose]

minstrel doesn't go on scripts

[junior knot]

We don’t have the support currently

For a non bmr minstrel script

Trust me I’ve tried

[karmic rose]

yeah I've seen it with Xaan+MM before and even then it's a bit tenuous

[junior knot]

I think that might have been one of my attempts lol

[karmic rose]

i've seen it a few places, i think one of them was probably yours

[karmic rose]

broad idea here being that the wraith/snitch allow evils to bluff twins; boomdandy means that town can't just execute into surviving twins if the game continues after the first twin is exed

but this does (ideally) need a reason for a twin that dies + game continues to be good so that it isn't just outed evil simulator

[junior knot]

Dies doesn’t necessarily mean executed

[karmic rose]

yeah i mean executed here

[junior knot]

However that is the only interesting thing with vigor lol

[karmic rose]

yeah i'm not putting vigor on here with boom lol

[junior knot]

Can kill ET and not make GT a necessarily free execute

[hollow oasis]

Most of TB?

[tough silo]

Kingdom of lilium kinda solves this by making possible multible kings (pixie, cannibal, philosopher) all at once.

[hollow oasis]

Show?

[hollow oasis]

The answer is legion

[warped urchin]

[hollow oasis]

It’s literally just Legion tho there’s nothing else(alch is cool)

[hollow oasis]

I meant the script

[tough silo]

Sloopy funny script

[hollow oasis]

Poppy Typhon?

[tough silo]

Yeah. Poppy Typhon.

[karmic rose]

let the Typhon have nice things

[hollow oasis]

The more I play the game the more I think poppygrower is weaker than perceived

[karmic rose]

depending on minion count parity, pg + Typhon still strands a minion

[tough silo]

Annoying to the evil team, unnoticed by the good team

[karmic rose]

all three of these demons have poppy as "fairly strong" rather than "oppressively strong"

[tough silo]

Me when im the Ojo and i see that there is a pixie poppy grower

[tough silo]

Twins in leviathan dont suck if there is alchemist Evil twin i think

[naive flame]

/ /

I always am trying to experiment with characters that tends madness and doubleclaiming

In a Alternative line:

I never really tested out the Fearmonger, I mean does it fit to the doubleclaim genre?.. but then again I never been Fearmonger before so I kind of want to try out Fearmonger.

I was gonna send a question about two characters getting married and then what type of wedding would it be(lavender/normal/etc..)

[tough silo]

Fearmonger is about being trusted as a good player who should be allowed to execute someone, like a backwards goblin

Becoming the "trusted" standard nominator.

Or slipping in the win.

Fearmonger its about bringing paranoia to all the good players.

Make them worry sick to actually execute players who they think are evil...

Best characters to pair this with? I think Vortox is it maybe.

[uneven field]

i was toying around with a script called box of oddities a while ago which is just a bunch of rarely used characters, but unfortunately it's hard to make a script that works with that premise

[grizzled marsh]

The thing is that we don't know enough about lorics to know if they are meant to be added for fun or if they are meant to be on scripts made for it. Big Wig is the only case that seems to be more about being slammed for fun on any script while the others needs a script made for them

[uneven field]

the reveal script for big wig was designed specifically for big wig

[grizzled marsh]

What characters interract with it? (other than harpy)

[uneven field]

kind of just that, but it's basically the only character that does interact with big wig

[grizzled marsh]

💀

[uneven field]

and they made a big deal about that interaction

[tough silo]

Bounty Hunter, Village Idiot, empath and all aliengment cheekers being very dissapointed

[uneven field]

yeah VI and bh are also on the reveal script

and dreamer, and flower girl, and town crier

[tough silo]

It does interact with a lot of those characters, its just that Harpy its the one with the same harmful equivalent as Pixie X Cerenovus

[uneven field]

it doesn't "interact" with alignment checkers so much as it gives them reasons to make up information

[tough silo]

Yea

[uneven field]

so yeah, the script was designed specifically for big wig

[karmic rose]

yeah but it's an NRB script, and those aren't usually designed to see extended/repeated play

[uneven field]

ive seen two big wig games and they were both that script

[uneven field]

it's more like mutant cerenovus

[tough silo]

That one too

We might have to make a keyword for social "interactions" so we can divide mechanical and social

Because big wig its pure social interactions

[uneven field]

but yeah, out of the lorics we have so far

bootlegger barely counts

gardener is kind of still just a fabled

storm catcher exists to make certain scripts work when they otherwise wouldn't

tor is "we saw this popular homebrew idea and we decided to make it a real mechanic"

big wig is an interesting concept, but I don't think it's very substantial

you can't defend yourself so you have to rely on the quality of someone else's defense, but also there are no accusations

that's fun to play exactly twice

it sort of just makes it so that there's less sharing of useful information and voting is more vibes based than educated

[junior knot]

a lot of the barely used characters are just really fucking hard to build a script around

[uneven field]

can confirm as someone who is actively trying

[tough silo]

Continuing on topic:

Organ grinder is soo niche

[warm gate]

Legion simply because I'm trying to see if there's a way to do Legion without Vortox and it's... going

I'm sure there's a way but I'm driving myself straight into a wall (granted that might be a problem with Legion + BMR-style death puzzle and not Legion)

[junior knot]

legion is like yagga on a bmr like, the arbitrary nature pretty much makes it unsolvable indistinguishable, unless the volume is so loud that there isn't really a death puzzle

its kinda why ojo is tenuous, and pithag is extremely borderline in that sort of environment

[hollow oasis]

Vortox is even harder to build with Legion

Without the abhorrent vortox legion dilemma

Source: My vortox legion script doesn’t work

[hollow oasis]

https://discord.com/channels/569683781800296501/1314065074347970653

[foggy grotto]

zombuul because its bad and not good

(off of BMR)

[hollow oasis]

Surely zombuul will have cover

One day

[severe raven]

I made a Vortox-free Legion script

[hollow oasis]

See that’s possible to be good

[severe raven]

actually

https://www.botcscripts.com/?search=&script_type=&include=Legion&exclude=Vortox&edition=&author=&sort=score

[hollow oasis]

Dusk

Dusk is good

[uneven field]

I made an al-hadikhia free lleech script

[next marlin]

I think I'd like to see the lleech script with alhad

[uneven field]

equally as impressive a feat imo

[fast anchor]

Vizier. With the new jinxes I might give it a shot, but I haven't really gotten anywhere with making a Vizier script that's actually good before

The vizier being so loud really restricts what you can do with the rest of the script

[olive marsh]

alhad because every time i try i feel like i’m just building a shittier version of an existing script

[barren sun]

Mastermind, cause I wanna make the engine work with loudest minions

[low umbra]

That sounds… like a decision haha

[fast anchor]

i got a ghost ping here?

[cold veldt]

poisoner because poisoner doesn't go on scripts

[cold veldt]

i can give you an alive ping if you want one

[tough silo]

Something something

[karmic rose]

the lleech/vortox/mastermind engine? that seems difficult to make work without some way for extra minion abilities to exist (otherwise, a witch + cerenovus prove it's not a mastermind game), but those ways for extra minion abilities to exist are usually tied to demon type

[next marlin]

Please do not make placeholder questions, this interferes with people being able to ask questions in an equal manner (you already get a particularly large share of questions)

[karmic rose]

and if the only way for a MM to exist is "well, it's typhon", then you already know what to do on a MM day

[modern plume]

Minuit Engine/Mastermind Engine requires ambiguity on a night with no deaths in order to be an effective threat. Too much open information that determines if a Mastermind is in play or not weakens it.

You can get around this perhaps with stuff like Plague Doctor & Alchemist though maybe if you want other loud Minions?

On my script Minuit a Fond la Caisse, if the Demon is a Po, nothing stops them from just going rampage mode from the beginning. It completely negates the engine entirely and instead turns it into a question about po charges, but it's a valid option and has been done to amusing effect.

[hollow oasis]

Wait that’s you?

Pog

[modern plume]

What's me? The author of Minuit? Yep

[barren sun]

I want it to be viable with OG and Vizier
Yes, I know I have issues xd

[modern plume]

For Vizier, add Investigator or Alsaahir. Then the Vizier can fake being a Lleech too.

[karmic rose]

oh I like alsaahir on that

salsa

[cold veldt]

it's important to note that Vizier on the Mastermind engine would still need good-sided death prevention to work, cause otherwise the Vizier's existence solves a deathless night by just hitting the Vizier

[karmic rose]

alch time?

[modern plume]

Yep

[karmic rose]

Vizier, Monke, Mastermind is a pretty viable alch suite

tho a lleech-hosted alch-viz is sad

[barren sun]

This is what I had so far

[modern plume]

Assassin @_@

[fast anchor]

gossip 😭

[modern plume]

Just no no no... not if you're building on the engine

[dense moat]

is this just with things everyone said?

oh no its Minuit attempt with a Viz

[barren sun]

That's what I had like a week ago AND REMEMBER THE QUESTION ;-;

[fast anchor]

I've seen Tinker on a Mastermind engine script before

but, like, any other positive deathmod can be too oppressive

[barren sun]

Wait why it Assassin that bad?

[modern plume]

Tinker makes sense because its an outsider

[barren sun]

Might have been me, the V.1

[karmic rose]

Hides the mastermind night too well

[modern plume]

Because the assassin can wait until the demon is executed then stab someone

[modern plume]

heck, the Assassin could stab themself

[fast anchor]

nope, i'm referring to Executionology

[barren sun]

Yeah, that's why I added it

[fast anchor]

it's way too powerful on a Minuitlike

it's usually okay in BMR because doubletapping is always safe

not so with a Lleech on script

[modern plume]

Minuit is already Evil sided and mostly intentionally so. Assassin is too much

[dense moat]

and actively more beneficial than skipping (assuing Zombuul)

[karmic rose]

The BMR question is "do we think it's a mastermind day? If yes -> doubletap"

The minuit question is "We think it might be a mastermind day. How do we handle it?"

[modern plume]

High Priestess is interesting on a Minuitlike. I'd be curious what conditions to decide on for who to choose on a Mastermind day.

[barren sun]

The Mastermind duh

Probably the player who's most talking about it being a mastermind day

[modern plume]

Isn't that order backwards? The player only becomes the one who's talking most about it being a mastermind day while its the mastermind day and thus after the HP should be shown to them

[barren sun]

Ah, seems you've forgotten I'm stupid!

Maybe the player who was most suspicious yesterday /the same night moments before that the executed player was the demon

How about I change Gossip for Alchemist or Inv and Assassin for Baron?

Might be another channel question though

[dusty thistle]

I've been working on finding out where Poisoner can go and work that isn't TB

[tough silo]

Summoner

[acoustic chasm]

Minstrel, Summoner, Chambermaid

[tall raft]

Yaggababble is not enjoyable to me

Same with cult leader

[brittle bridge]

For me it’s Al-had

I love it but it’s never found it’s way onto a script I’ve made

Aside from one which is arguably more of a joke than a script

[naive flame]

What time was the last qiestion—

7:40am.. it's 6:11am..

Guess imma sleep again

[tough silo]

Chambermaid is super easy

[low umbra]

Just add a vortox and all your problems are solved /j

No but seriously, I love LM/CM. It’s a semi-core interaction of my lil monsta script

[low umbra]

You usually can’t add it to a script, it mostly has to be the start of the script. Cause it’s so incredibly loud and distinct from other demons in terms of script composition that it being the solo-demon is the norm

[sharp violet]

10/28: What's your least favorite thing about your favorite character?

[brittle bridge]

Politician doesnt work super well with other + evil roles

[low umbra]

This question requires me to have a favourite character lol

[pseudo fulcrum]

Players who just care about winning can completely bypass the Big Wig ability (but also, that's not really the Big Wig's problem)

[dry sluice]

Savant's effectiveness is entirely determined by the ST. Also, when combined with other fun characters like Clockmaker/Noble/Juggler, it can lead to info overload, where the game has lots of tangled info but nothing that actually points at anyone.

[tardy wyvern]

village idiot information can often monopolize towns discussion and early game executions

[dusty thistle]

Did someone mention LM+Vortox+CM???? https://discord.com/channels/569683781800296501/1428740797272162395

[pure meadow]

Like half of marionette's play patterns

[grizzled marsh]

Small enigmas (also here's two of them)
Basically a blank token that only has two global effects
People don't try to win the game when thinking about how to use it's ability

[karmic rose]

i have so many thoughts on marionette that i've been meaning to expand at some point but the tl;dr is that it's a weird role

[pure meadow]

Exactly "I see a good token and have no clue if I'm evil or not" is probably my favorite space to exist in within clocktower but once it actually gets confirmed one way or another it gets not so great

[grizzled marsh]

For me it's the opposite 😭

[next marlin]

I have to pick which of my favourite characters registers for this and I feel like it's cheating if I pick Vigormortis

[grizzled marsh]

Vigormortis wasn't in my bingo card for favorite character 💀

[tough silo]

Acrobat doesnt appear in not so many scripts

[next marlin]

it's absolutely a favourite, it's also janky as hell and has an itemized list of least favourite things

[tough silo]

Amnesiac sometimes its super overpower

[pure meadow]

for vatimortis himself???

[grizzled marsh]

😭

[tough silo]

Cannibal is hustle you have to endure.

[next marlin]

Lepa was the framed savant in the game that was coined over so it's a repressed memory

[karmic rose]

vati ngl i think we'd happily read your answers for all candidates here

[grizzled marsh]

?

Wait i just realised i managed to prove your point 😭

[karmic rose]

this is re:marionette and waffles. I'm entirely unconvinced I have a favorite role, thogh my irl group clowns on me slightly for running Leviathan a little more than is statistically expected in whalebucket

[modern plume]

It's too easy to make it underpowered & boring out of caution or make it too strong.

[next marlin]

'vatimortis' was coined for that livetext snv game where I killed the good bone collector so they couldn't rez dire (not pictured)

[grizzled marsh]

If you mean that one game where i was made mad n1 as the savant when i was the actual savant AND DON'T SEND THE GRIM WHEN I WAS ABOUT TO SAY THE ENTIRE GAME WTF

[next marlin]

hey look the Savant-Artist play was genuinely great

it just uh

[grizzled marsh]

I completely forgot it was a vigor game tho

[next marlin]

faced obstacles outside of your control

yeah you mechanically knew it was vigor and was me because you were the cerenovus in every other world

[grizzled marsh]

I didn't?

How tf could i know that

[next marlin]

your fake artist question was "Is Vati the demon? Yes"

[grizzled marsh]

Nah

[grizzled marsh]

I had made a fake artist question based on my n1 info, but there's no way i said this was my artist question

NAH

WTF

Ok well that's apparently a Lepa play

[next marlin]

It was great and also made town even more convinced you were the Cerenovus

[grizzled marsh]

It's canon

[dusty thistle]

My favorite is Organ Grinder, and I hate how every minion it synergizes with causes volume issues.

[hollow oasis]

we need more minion mod!!!!

[grizzled marsh]

Two months later, can we get a Vatiwall of text about it?

[hollow oasis]

well damn @grizzled marsh you might be a contestant on the VatiWall Show!

[hollow oasis]

wait

yea we need it

[acoustic chasm]

Lord of Typhon can often have wins that feel out of nowhere. Good can see if they win or lose before final 5 and can feel they can't do much against it. Also it's so hard to script build for omg omg

[coarse fern]

Golem is a townsfolk

[hollow oasis]

WHY CAN'T I SCRIPTBUILD WITH THIS THING PLEASE JUST LET ME MAKE MY VORTOX SCRIPT I BEG

*** I JUST WANT LEGION VORTOX TO WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!***

[low umbra]

What does it mean for a minion to synergise with OG other than fitting minion noise levels?

[dusty thistle]

Boomdandy, for example, is very good with OG. Fearmonger gets a large buff. Goblin becomes a lot scarier, and Vizier is less of a thrall. Goblin and Boom are quiet, and Fearmonger and Viz are hyperloud. So while Fearmonger and Viz fit the noise level, they are both far harder to work. And Goblin and Boom are much scarier, but they cause volume issues. It's a bit of a predicament.

[low umbra]

Lil monsta is a super strong demon to the point that the rest of the script kind of needs to be built to nerf it for it to be balanced

[karmic rose]

Most minions that benefit from evils rising up to send a vote through like OG's effects

[dusty thistle]

The baby isn't that powerful.

Actually, it depends on how good the minions are.

[low umbra]

Maybe it’s just that I like quiet minions so the baby is stronger in that context

[dusty thistle]

Its more on the minions than anything.

Like, I've been building with it, and I've realized Spy is one of the best minions it can have. So naturally I've made town gather a lot of info.

The baby's best environments are backloaded, semi-loud minions, so that means the SnV suite, minus ET.

[low umbra]

True but like… it’s still quite frequently stronger than a lot of other demons if there are demon finders or so, even if the minions don’t explicitly complement lil monsta

[dusty thistle]

Rule #1 of LM on scripts: do not ever put any demon finders on script.

[low umbra]

Yeah but that explicitly means that the baby is central to the script in making it ‘weaker’

[dusty thistle]

Oh that's what you meant, nevermind.

Yeah, I agree now

[karmic rose]

eh, i'd disagree -- the baby is a great way for other demons to write off FT info

[dusty thistle]

It's also a great way to ruin the FT's day.

[karmic rose]

there are caveats to each demon-finder on LM but

in a low-droison environ, a FT "no" is 2 executions town shouldn't go for that day

[low umbra]

I think FT is the least sinful demon-finder for lil monsta scripts, but it’s still not super comfy imo

[dusty thistle]

Yeah, I agree there. Except maybe PM, since they're wrong half the time anyway

[low umbra]

Yeah but in that context, non-baby demons crumble under that chain of info

[karmic rose]

LM games are the lower end of the fortune teller's acceptable strength range, but FT's home script is Imp + SW

[low umbra]

I wouldn’t count PM as a demon-finder, but I see the idea

[dusty thistle]

Like anywhere the baby works with FT, Imp works better.

[low umbra]

Also poisoner, importantly

[karmic rose]

ye

[tidal quiver]

also if a fortune teller finds their red herring as a player they consistently get yeses on, they're actually confirmed good

[dusty thistle]

Or they're the demon

[low umbra]

Yeah, they could just be a non-baby demon

[tidal quiver]

oh totally, that only works when you solve for LM

[low umbra]

Which requires having a clear idea of the minion count imo

[dusty thistle]

Anyway, is Spy broken with the baby?

[tidal quiver]

but it's a very good consolation IMO if you do think you're in LM worlds where most other demonfinders would just be useless

[dusty thistle]

Because I'm worried it becomes very powerful to have a holder that registers as good

[karmic rose]

it's strong -- i'd recommend using the misregistration very very sparingly

[tidal quiver]

I think you need to trust your ST to not use the spy misreg every time perhaps with LM?

[karmic rose]

yeah, Spy + LM allows evil more skill expression (good!) and disrupts confirmation chains (good!) but is vulnerable to bad ST decisions (oof)

[hollow oasis]

or kill the spy before f3

[dusty thistle]

It also mitigates a large LM downside, in that evil has bluffs.

[dusty thistle]

The Spy holds the baby for the entire game

What will you do now, ST?

[hollow oasis]

"I'm gonna kill you, move the baby"

[dusty thistle]

Is that legal?

I'm not sure that's legal

[tidal quiver]

it's legal but I don't think it's cool to do that

[karmic rose]

how well this works, but I'd argue a Spy holding LM will always register as the Demon

[hollow oasis]

It's not explicitly legal but like

[karmic rose]

the softer version of that is to just start sinking LM kills

[low umbra]

I would just not make the spy misregister much like

[dusty thistle]

Oh absolutely. Unfortunately, refer back to LM scriptwriting rule #1

[fallow rapids]

people are sob reacting me because i'm right 🙂‍↕️

[low umbra]

But also: widow works better than spy for lil monsta imo

[dusty thistle]

Hmph, unfortunate. I do like the Spy-Vortox interaction

I'm just stuck between a rock and a hard place here

[karmic rose]

LM is fundamentally a demon-directed source of misinfo, I'd argue, so it works well with other demon-misinfo suites

[low umbra]

Yeah spy/vortox is fun. It’s just spy/lil monsta is kinda cringe imo (cause guaranteed registering as the demon is not going to be doing much cause lil monsta)

[tidal quiver]

I'm of the opinion that only like a quarter of the time people cite "we don't have the writeup" for LM or some other rules nightmare is it actually warranted. Like a skill of ST-ing imo is coming up with rules that seem balanced and understandable on at least a surface level, but this is coming from someone who's okay with rules inconsistencies. Like yes LM + goblin isn't explained and I think it does result in a guaranteed evil win RAW, but frankly they're fine on a script together and I think you should be able to look at it and see this and rule it well

[tough silo]

Never did a Wizard script ever

[karmic rose]

magica i ran chiz's headache script what makes you think i'm capable of good decisions

[dusty thistle]

I honestly don't agree they're fine on a script together, but that's more because it makes it a lot harder to find out if the Goblin is the Goblin or the demon and less because of the actual abilities headbutting.

[low umbra]

If you want to do funny misreg thing, boffin/recluse is also really funny in vortox

[dusty thistle]

And Boffin-LM is worse than LM-Spy

[tidal quiver]

the fact that you show some remorse is all I need lol

[low umbra]

‘You see vortox, you’re welcome’

[low umbra]

I would definitely disagree

[karmic rose]

i'm about to do worse

[tidal quiver]

this is very fair and requires a critical mass of goblin-solvers, more than goblin usually asks for: it needs a script that's especially better to solve it

[tidal quiver]

look I like the guy who ran djinnbucket, nothing you could do would make me doubt your judgement relative to hystrex

[low umbra]

Just slap an FT and preacher on it and it’s fine 😎

[fallow rapids]

i'm citing LM unwriteup here because i feel like a lot of the time there really is no concensus between STs about LM interactions

[dusty thistle]

It's for the same reason as PD-Goblin. The Goblin must register as the Goblin. If they don't, execute freely. If they do, no touchy.

[low umbra]

Yeah but also that’s fine
When talking about interactions like that, just accept if people knowingly run something differently to you. Kind of an informed consent vibe

[tidal quiver]

oh totally. goblin itself asks for character detectors to distinguish between a goblin and a demon, but with LM it also asks for demonfinders and I think it's fine it just wants more from the script

[dusty thistle]

Anyway, the issue is Spy and LM both hold interactions critical to the script, which is a problem.

So maybe I just chalk it up to "the ST will keep the game balanced" and call it a day.

[low umbra]

I’m curious why you think that. I disagree and want to see if I’m wrong and generally hear out your perspective

[dusty thistle]

A lot of great Boffin abilities are OPGs. Refreshing them is really powerful.

Boffin Fish comes to mind as one

[low umbra]

Boffin abilities are a global once is a reasonable ruling imo

[dusty thistle]

Reasonable yes, correct no

[low umbra]

No one said that RAW was the best way to run something with Lil Monsta

[fallow rapids]

the correct thing to do always is to rule in the way that's fun

[tidal quiver]

it's also completely ST-controlled and depends on the evil team moving the demon around a lot, which also gets bottlenecked with only 1 alive. I think it's actually a lot of fun and really cool when you give information-gathering abilities that'll let the bluffless minions find bluffs

[fallow rapids]

otherwise what's the point ...

i've done Boffin LM Monk before though so i'm not someone you should agree with about LM Boffin

[dusty thistle]

It's also a really janky interaction in general.

[fallow rapids]

yeah it's pretty jank

[tidal quiver]

I know it's easy to say "the ST controls it so it's good and fine" because it is a scapegoat to an extent but also I think a seasoned storyteller will give boffin abilities correlating to how well the evil team is doing

[dusty thistle]

At which point, I'd rather just keep spy

[tidal quiver]

that's fair, I won't try and stop you

[low umbra]

Yeah, changing the boffin ability between babysitters is a fun interaction and also just not a requirement by any stretch

[dusty thistle]

I'm lazy, Spy is easier lol

[tidal quiver]

but I've ran this interaction once like 6 months ago or smth and I remember giving boffin-golem in one of the handoffs as a powerful ability because an evil got executed d1

but yeah boffin is another interaction nightmare where there's like 3 ways to rule everything so I don't blame you

[karmic rose]

boffin golem is so fun

[dusty thistle]

If worst comes to worst, I'll just add some advice in the Bombs and Bow Ties writeup advising the Spy misregister less in a LM game

Maybe I should add Dreamer back.

[low umbra]

I like lil monsta/boffin/lycan and that seems like one of the more extreme abilities. I ran it in a game and good should have won that game (they threw on final day by a good player voting to tie on a corpse and mayor was not on the script LOL)

[fallow rapids]

the wiki

[low umbra]

Yeah that’s fair

[fallow rapids]

i probably should exercise enough selfregulation to not flood this chat

i think those two words say a lot already

[coarse fern]

True!

[tidal quiver]

^ totally unbiased source

[low umbra]

LOL

[dusty thistle]

"I'm sorry Steven, but I'm not going to run Pacifist as an outsider even if the wiki how to run recommends it."

Or is it Stephen?

[simple crystal]

is the most awesome character concept ever, but its tendency towards chaotic wishes that don't actually help their team makes it much less cool in practice than it is in my head

[karmic rose]

for sure

[low umbra]

I just want to run more of my lil monsta script. I really like so many of the things it does and how well they all fit together. It’s the script I’m the happiest with (it has kind of wild/unhinged stuff like boomdandy/SW and damsel/hermit lol)

[dusty thistle]

It depends on the wisher. Ben mentioned that he bets there are people who use wizard like a weapon.

[coarse fern]

Lmao my botc thoughts are usually “hmm golem cool”

[karmic rose]

ye some folks do, like, real wishes

[dusty thistle]

I'm glad we're on the same LM+SW+Boom wavelength.

[fallow rapids]

⤴️

[karmic rose]

and then my group gets mad because the wizard was a minion and not a loric

[fallow rapids]

in MY household PACIFIST IS A STRONG TOWNSFOLK

rahhhh . . .

[dusty thistle]

Hey, my wish to become the Barrow Fog was real!

[karmic rose]

yeah my mental wish is the entirely ripped-off "I cast fireball" or else "each night, the player who used the least owospeak might die"

[tidal quiver]

oh god no amy

[fallow rapids]

nyu loric droppeth...

[tidal quiver]

I would rather be fireballed to death than that

[dusty thistle]

But yeah, for an example, I remember Eggy once wished "I wish for each night the ST to offer me two off-script good character abilities. I choose one to gain until dusk."

Evil won that game

[simple crystal]

conceptually I put wizard on scripts as a flexible, game-state dependent minion that exists to fill in the gaps of the evil team, but it actually being used that way is a big ask both on players and the ST

[karmic rose]

I think the cost of this has to be "the wish ends when the wizard dies" and also "the players can kill the wizard IRL"

[tidal quiver]

the problem with sharing my wish for whenever I draw wizard for the first time is that then I immediately get revealed as the wizard for sharing it

[karmic rose]

just steal mine!!!

[tidal quiver]

good idea! Storyteller, I cast fireball on Amy

[dusty thistle]

The cost for Amy's second is never using it!

[fallow rapids]

"might"

[dusty thistle]

After all, it is a crime to make that wish.

[coarse fern]

Just wish for more wishes smh

[simple crystal]

true!!!

[tidal quiver]

that was like the #1 thing I saw people doing as soon as wizard came out: either get more wishes or wish for more players to have them

[brittle bridge]

I love wizard and I will always be grateful my group tries to go for practical and fun wishes over insane pointless ones

[fallow rapids]

I wish that each night all players are reminded that "they know what you did", and the person with the most boring reaction gets poisoned

[karmic rose]

Ye I've got a wizard script I wanna test but I don't trust folks to use wizard as a real minion

[coarse fern]

Or wishing for ability duplication

Like more barber abilities or smth

[inner gazelle]

Wizard wish: each night*, offer a player some popcorn. If they refuse, they are mad that they accepted the popcorn. Everyone starts knowing that the evil team wins when every living good player has accepted popcorn.

[coarse fern]

For whatever reason I see “everyone has [X damaging outsider] ability” a lot

[dusty thistle]

Now that I think about it, the Wizard reveal was Wizard being used as a blunt force weapon. "Every player gains the barber ability" is really scary.

[simple crystal]

oh yeah I've probably mentioned this before, but the one time I was wizard I drew it three games in a row and did not have an idea for a wish for any of those three games

so I ended up wishing for offscript abilities all three times, which actually worked not that badly

[tidal quiver]

safterix please share some wizard token pulls with the rest of us lol

[coarse fern]

Every time I don’t know what to wish for it ends poorly (golem ability in 5p Levi)

[fallow rapids]

i've only drawn wizard 0 times

[dusty thistle]

I love the extremely boring but fun option of becoming an off-script minion I've never been.

[fallow rapids]

(wrath of the forever st)

[simple crystal]

the hatter proc was not enough to save how goodsided the first game was, but caused the sober undertaker to see scarlet woman two times on a script with no character changing, so it was worth it

[brittle bridge]

I have a wish in a chamber that is basically “if the nominator is mad the nominee is the demon, the demon changes roles with the wizard”

[dusty thistle]

Too bad I've only been the Wizard once, and wasted it on becoming the Barrow Fog

[karmic rose]

oh that's a good one

[brittle bridge]

Thank you

[simple crystal]

then I wished for spy, got trusted by bluffing grandmother on a script with no confirmation mimicry - and the imp was executed before starpassing

the final wish was boffin, which ended up being boffin grandmother - that actually worked, since after the demon was executed and outed socially evil, everyone thought the 'grandchild' was the only possible person co-evil, so was hard-framed and killed f3

so yeah wizard can be fun, but chaotic wishes that hurt their own team make me sad inside

[dusty thistle]

If it makes you feel better, the Wizard got what they wished for every time!

But yeah, you can be zany with Wizard and still use it as a tool to win. Like Ben's insane wish to become the ST.

[karmic rose]

wait this gets better the more I think about it. It's an infinite safety net until one is executed, but then the swap obliterates the other later

[coarse fern]

wtf how did that work

[dusty thistle]

Check the TPOT game on the TPI channel for more!

[tidal quiver]

actually yeah lets not spoil it lol

it's an amazing game to watch

[dusty thistle]

It's titled "Wishing well" in case you were wondering.

[karmic rose]

I know of a different st/wizard swap where the wizard just ran the game legally but gave less helpful info to good wherever possible

[dusty thistle]

I mean, Ben didn't break the rules either.

[karmic rose]

ye I'd imagine haha

[low umbra]

Inb4 the wizard dies and then final three is an insta-loss

[brittle bridge]

Well that’s the intended risk of the wish tbh evil gets an extra day of life when they would lose normally but needs to keep 2 instead of one player alive

[low umbra]

Yeah but as written, that wish would/could proc on literally any nomination that includes an accusation about the nominee being the demon

So even if the nominee isn’t the demon, the swap would happen anyway

[brittle bridge]

Yep

It was in a game with a flowergirl and a town crier too

Helped make their info even weirder when we coordinated a bit

[low umbra]

Imo that kind of means ‘town has to execute any of two players’ which is worse for the evil team

But if it’s junking info, that’s cool

[coarse fern]

That was a banger game thanks for the recommendation

I laughed really hard at the reveal

[foggy grotto]

someone can bluff goon and get the entire evil team to out to them which is often feelsbad

[naive flame]

Goddamnit I forgot About this channel..

Fuck.

[uneven field]

nobody else likes it

ojo is like the least popular demon

[fast anchor]

rolls over and dies far too often

[barren sun]

The subtle ambiguity of what the icon is supposed to be; at first I thought it was a hat, then spent like 4 solid months thinking it was some kind of arrow. Then I saw the old art and everything started making sense
( )

[fleet hedge]

rare old art w imo

idk why they made it less recognisable

[supple dirge]

I never saw anything but a chair. I like how sharp and overbearing the current mastermind chair looks.

[fleet hedge]

it's the mastermind chair

from the quiz show

[barren sun]

Yes, I like it way more than the office chair; but the arm resters were anything but that to me

[naive flame]

It's rare to see it happen..especially as a literal role than having it as a alchemist ability(which I seen win more often..and I won as it once..)

And that is the..

[dusty thistle]

Legion would like to have a word with you

Ojo is kinda the one everyone forgets about

Legion is resoundingly unpopular

[fleet hedge]

eh

it's also resoundingly popular

a lot people love it

Ojo is just forgetten

[barren sun]

I wonder if there's any tool that keeps track of the community's favourite and least favourite characters

[dry sluice]

This, approximately: https://tiermaker.com/categories/board-games/blood-on-the-clocktower-characters-travellers-and-fabled-17513704

[versed junco]

well deviant's in F so that can't be right

[grizzled marsh]

Ojo is like spy: people say it sucks, yet people still use it in a way that helps the good team

[tough silo]

Wraith its the minion everyone forgets about

[uneven field]

people actually play legion scripts

[modern plume]

Unfortunately all their votes didn't count for some reason

[barren sun]

What do you mean Cerenovus is first, probably my least favourite minion
Same but reversed with Deviant ;-;

Imma go make my own list, and that's nothing to do with the fact that I have a spare hour before the bus arrives

[barren sun]

I returned!

[versed junco]

I too would rerack if I drew fibbin

[barren sun]

Couldn't decide wether "How happy am I to draw it from the bag" or "How much do I like the character itself (Icon, ability, playstyle....)" so I did a weird mix of both

[foggy grotto]

wild takes here

[versed junco]

yet deviant is high so they are valid

[foggy grotto]

but cerenovus bottom tier is criminal

and PM

and yagga

oh yagga isn’t bottom

but still

[versed junco]

I'm gonna try really hard not to look at those

[foggy grotto]

also goon my GOAT is much too low 😔

[versed junco]

except PM I'm not overly attached to it

[foggy grotto]

also i like how choirboy is two tiers higher than king

[foggy grotto]

sure but is it bottom tier worthy

[versed junco]

no

[foggy grotto]

@barren sun do you have a list to this template

so i don’t have to remake it from scratch

[barren sun]

I should point out, I don't hate a single BOTC character, I really don't; I just like some more than others, and it just so happens I like everyone else before Snitch

[foggy grotto]

snitch can be cool ngl

[barren sun]

I don't like when someone makes me ceremad / making someone ceremad idk man

[foggy grotto]

especially when the minions learn widow since the snitch bluffs don’t have to be good characters

[foggy grotto]

ok but is that a fault to the character

[barren sun]

My pronouns are Choirboy for a reason

[foggy grotto]

anyway

[barren sun]

What do you mean

[barren sun]

Imo, it's like not having an ability at all, but even worse

[barren sun]

.....wait is that a thing

[karmic rose]

If you look up blood on the clocktower on tierlistmaker you'll find it

I'd link but on phone

[karmic rose]

Yep!!! It's (imo) the interesting part of snitch

[barren sun]

No, again, the character is great and perfectly fine. I just don't like playing it / being played by it

https://tiermaker.com/create/blood-on-the-clocktower-characters-travellers-and-fabled-17513704

[foggy grotto]

ty

[hollow oasis]

General rerack!?!?!

[karmic rose]

I really like snitch because once you've played for a while, it becomes a lot easier to fly bluffless as a minion. This means that "these characters aren't in play" opens up hugely as you gain experience

[hollow oasis]

That’s like my favorite info TF

[barren sun]

If night 1 the ST says "Guys someone else wants to play but doesn't wanna be a traveller, do you mind reracking" I'd very very likely vote for it
And I just don't want to play with a Fibbin

[hollow oasis]

what’s wrong with general I want to know

[karmic rose]

I'm not gonna bluff snake charmer, but knowing it's out of play changes the math on damsel guesses quite a bit

[barren sun]

Again ;-;
Nothing, there's nothing wrong with the character; I even watched Ben play it the other day and I had fun trying to figure out his info
I just wouldn't like playing it

[tough silo]

General its one of the most powerful townfolk in the game even thou their info is plain at the first sight

Because you need to know everything to have a clue if your information is correct with everyone else.

[pastel prism]

my stances on these roles are very fluid and i did not put much thought into this but i think this is my tierlist just based on how much i like each role personally

[hollow oasis]

General only really works if they're definitely sober

[hollow oasis]

high praise for cult leader

[pastel prism]

this is probably not gonna be the same if i made this tierlist next week tbh

[pastel prism]

i genuinely couldn't bring myself to put anything in the very bottom tbh

[hollow oasis]

Cult leader

Cult leader deserves it

I tried to like it

so very hard(Y'all know how I play it)

I swear to fucking god you just can't be a TF

I have tried SO HARD to play for good as cult leader

but then

"you are evil" 3 nights in a row

[pastel prism]

if it's any consolation it's definitely my least favorite out of all of these, even if i still couldn't bring myself to banish it to the Z-Rank room

[hollow oasis]

then add F

[pastel prism]

it'd ruin the deltarune reference :P

[versed junco]

I hear you but that one time I was CL between the vizier and the vortox was pretty funny

[tidal quiver]

no this is true tho

[versed junco]

king's really cool and fun I think

[tidal quiver]

I'm like king + CB's biggest fan

but the cb is cooler and also me so

[versed junco]

but I wanna ignore the bluffing half of the bluffing game and tell these peasants to BOW DOWN TO THEIR LIEGE

[tidal quiver]

true!

[pastel prism]

i swapped snitch and golem, not sure why i had them the way they were before honestly

[low umbra]

I had a wild experience with drawing the goblin token recently. I was bluffing noble who was bluffing shug. Turned out shug was out of play as well, so I just committed to that

I was then ST psycho-killed after exeing 2 people LOL

[barren sun]

What's T for? Top?

[low umbra]

The fact that nothing is below c and also that heretic is in T tier with imp (whatever T means)

[warped urchin]

T(he best)

[versed junco]

not ordered

[fleet hedge]

cult leader above no dashii and town crier 🫠

[versed junco]

it was REALLY funny

[naive flame]

:3

08/29/25

Welcome to the Spook season of October~!

What would you think characters wear as their outfit for Halloween.. if there is any to wear.. :)

[junior knot]

Po: only allowed to wear their school uniform

(Really strict parents)

[unkempt tangle]

why the HECK is Imp in D tier

meanwhile LOT is in S tier 😱 (I don't think LOT is a very good character, balance-wise or fun-wise)

and atheist

ok im just not gonna think to hard about it actually

[dense moat]

(cass appears to curse you for saying Po is a child)

[dense moat]

Just hands out candy

A bloody ax.... its not actually a costume, its just the regular ax

[dusty thistle]

Fred Rogers

About four of you got that joke, but the four of you who did found it funny.

[brittle bridge]

beetlejuice

[foggy grotto]

oh these are some pretty good ta- NWM at bottom???

[junior knot]

Like 80% why I said it lol

[tacit fiber]

people using it too boringly

stop slowbaroning >_<

it's fucking boring and loses games

make an evil sweetheart

make an evil philo

make a good player sc and tell them the demon

there's so much whimsy in the wordl

[hollow oasis]

make a good cerenovus than vigorkill them

is that creative enough

oh

even better

In a Tor game, make a Lleech, then a fang gu, and somehow have 3 demons alive

then there's 3 kills to kill the Lleech and Fang gu

[tacit fiber]

yes good job

[hollow oasis]

yay

this is the "Vigor game" if I mention it

the Nodashii game was a SNV+Wizard game

The Vortox game was whalebuffet

[sharp violet]

Make a barber, make a good snake charmer, then make yourself the demon, get the barber executed, swap with the snake charmer then charm them, and then choose yourself

[tall raft]

I think the strongest think a pit hag can do is facilitate a fang gu jump and then turn into a cerenovus

But that's so boring

[tall raft]

If only you could do this without making a demon and getting murdered by the st

[tall raft]

Damsel is not new player friendly and some people absolutely hate being the damsel

[hollow oasis]

Genuinely having the ability to bluff good Vortox wins games

Source:cere who self picked to go into good Vortox bluff in a Vortox game

Then won

[uneven field]

I don't know why people with bad takes feel the need to impose those takes on others

some people like cult leader

[uneven field]

gods damn it

[dense moat]

Tbf, I wasnt the one who said it in this case

I'm just the messenger :)

That being said... would an incel still wear a school uniform?

or be told what to do by their parents? Po could live with their parents

[uneven field]

I think I've gone on record previously as saying you're allowed to have your own headcanon that po is a child, I just disagree

[uneven field]

po goes to college

or has dropped out of college

[uneven field]

po probably lives with his parents yeah

[barren sun]

29th of August?
Choirboy, Sweetheart, Flowergirl and Steward go trick-or-treating as TMNT
Lil' Monsta is in a pumpkin onesie but cannot go with the other kids on their own so the Spy goes with them. No one really remembers what the Spy was wearing.

[barren sun]

I understand the usefulness of their ability in a lot of situations, but I always thought it was kinda weak compared tho other demons, and a bit redundant with Scarlet Woman on the script if in-play. Also the token is a bit generic for me, that icon could refer to a lot of demons

[barren sun]

• 1 Evil and we can coordinate pretty easily. Also the name relates to the ability is so good

[tacit fiber]

it’s not to turn into the cerenovus there are better things to do after an fg jump

[spiral pollen]

turn into a witch

🙂‍↕️

[uneven field]

I'm fairness it's called OCTOber

[barren sun]

It was once the 8th month

Then Julius Cesar came into the room

[grizzled marsh]

This one?

[dusty thistle]

No this one

[uneven field]

this one?

https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=_CM-sxwjGK8&si=rhrSmPMTocmQJjm_

[karmic rose]

Oh sick, what's this character from?

[tall raft]

I don’t think so, having 2 nights of no cere and then cere is just enough to pivot from a bad claim

And then there’s nothing left to ever hint at a fang gu jump to a non outsider

[uneven field]

garden of sin

[sharp violet]

Honkai: Star Rail
Basically the god of misinformation in that game

[lean isle]

No way, they have the Poisoner :O

[sharp violet]

(That actually gives me an idea to create a HSR-themed homebrew script)

||The most recent update and promo video reveal what the 4 ways the universe can end are in the game, I’m making those 4 the demon||

[junior knot]

Wrong channel I think

[uneven field]

I don't think there are wrong answers in this thread

[low umbra]

Yeah the way I see this thread is it’s for any sort of topic but there’s a suggestion for them to be Clocktower-related and steer away from homebrew at least some of the time

[junior knot]

sorry it was more for the homebrew channesl i was recommending

[low umbra]

Yeah ik all g

[barren sun]

[30/10] Your favourite character has been found guilty of a felony crime.
What is it?

[brittle bridge]

voter fraud

[dense moat]

Take a wild guess

[junior knot]

felony tax evasion

(they did poison people, they are just good enough they didn't get caught)

[dense moat]

Stalking

[junior knot]

Identity Theft

Being a Woman

: Underage Drinking

[zenith lotus]

does it have to be my favorite

i really want to do : Tax Evasion

[dense moat]

Fraud

[junior knot]

: serving

: Assault

[dense moat]

Manslaughter (their lawyer argued the killing was involuntary)

[junior knot]

: Poaching

: Malicious advertising

[dense moat]

Use of child labor

[hollow oasis]

Charged with mass conspiracy

[junior knot]

: Public Indecency (peed on the side of an appartment complex)

[dusty thistle]

loitering and noise complaints

Oh, and obstruction of justice. That too

Moonshining

Animal cruelty (read the flavor text for reference)

[junior knot]

: Possession with intent to distribute

[dusty thistle]

Though you could argue it's just cooking

[versed junco]

Disappearance of The Honorable Judge

[dense moat]

Actually thats just outright usre

[junior knot]

no, flowergirl

[dense moat]

Callback 🥳

[dusty thistle]

Working underage without a permit.

[dense moat]

Trying to have executed

(The Vizier declared it a felony)

[junior knot]

Poppy is just deported

for immigration concerns

[dusty thistle]

Whatever it was they'll pardon themselves

[junior knot]

its judicial misconduct

so they were impeached first

[dusty thistle]

Being "mad" they are an outsider.

[versed junco]

Or he was, anyway

[junior knot]

: health code violations

: Contempt of Court

[dense moat]

Jugglin chainsaws in public

Making someone's face into a robot face

Selling personal information

[dusty thistle]

(insert deltarune gif I cannot find)

(and queen_evil_laugh.mp3)

[dense moat]

Poisoning someone

[next marlin]

tedcore

[low umbra]

Is the po a minor in this headcanon?

[dusty thistle]

framing for serving alcohol while underage.

Mickey slipping

[hollow oasis]

Heresy

Trespassing in a stone tower

[versed junco]

Shooting someone in an elevator

[dusty thistle]

shooting someone with a gun left in a toilet

[low umbra]

force-cyborg

[next marlin]

kidnapping

[hollow oasis]

designed a Rube Goldberg machine that triggers with a button to kill every president

Filibustering with intent of murder

[low umbra]

can this little guy even be convicted?

[hollow oasis]

To Juvie

[low umbra]

It’s just a little guy

[low umbra]

True

[next marlin]

tried as an adult for first degree murder

alternatively, for treason

[junior knot]

it can't be murder

murder requires intent

and doesn't choose kills

[next marlin]

LM not choosing kills thematically is the baby choosing who it kills

[dusty thistle]

2nd degree murder. It was a crime of opportunity

[next marlin]

it's just a baby so it sucks at killing good targets

[coarse fern]

do I really need to explain this one

[hollow oasis]

It’s not human

[junior knot]

: violating the espionage act

: Mansplaining

[hollow oasis]

pretending to be a religious figure

[dusty thistle]

Selling bootleg tapes to pay off gambling debts

[low umbra]

Pebbles’ obligatory mention of golem

[hollow oasis]

-so violating the espionage act

[junior knot]

Election tampering

[coarse fern]

🫡

[karmic rose]

this is so good

[coarse fern]

That is my only contribution to this thread and I cannot think of something better

[coarse fern]

gambling

[junior knot]

inciting a mob

[karmic rose]

possession of psychoactive substances

[junior knot]

Forgery

[hollow oasis]

being the mob

[versed junco]

Nominating twice?

[low umbra]

In what countries is gambling a felony?

[junior knot]

Good Twin: Aiding and Abetting

[coarse fern]

They just got eaten by the cannibal they’re chilling

[junior knot]

: Prosecutorial misconduct

[dusty thistle]

Absolutely disgusting perversion. Absolutely awful. I can't describe it here, it's so disgusting.

[coarse fern]

I didn’t read the prompt so

[karmic rose]

running a gambling ring can be

[dusty thistle]

No the honorable judge was eaten. is the dishonorable one.

[versed junco]

Not reading the prompt

[karmic rose]

was elaborately framed

[hollow oasis]

USA outside of Vegas

[junior knot]

🪨 : not reading the prompt

[coarse fern]

In what countries is not reading the prompt a felony

[dusty thistle]

A lot of them, mostly with very fundamentalist governments.

[junior knot]

ravenswood bluff

[tidal quiver]

the one you live in. I'm calling the cops as we speak

[hollow oasis]

Ok In fairness gambling being illegal is ok

Like

[junior knot]

gambling should be legal for the same reason drugs should be legal

[hollow oasis]

It’s not good for the overall prosperity of an area’s civilians

[junior knot]

so it can be regulated, taxed, and victims can receive support

[hollow oasis]

It’s legal in Vegas

Go there

[low umbra]

That is not a conversation to have here I’m pretty sure lol

[junior knot]

oh i don't gamble, i just don't think it should be criminal

[junior knot]

fair, but also wasn't just me

[hollow oasis]

I’m a fan of “legal to do, illegal to offer”

But different time anyway

[junior knot]

: medical malpractice

[coarse fern]

Oh then I’d have been kicked out ages ago

[junior knot]

: Abuse of power

[coarse fern]

I never pay much attention to headcanon prompts

[versed junco]

Copyright infringement

[junior knot]

Violting HIPPAA

[sharp violet]

tax evasion

[junior knot]

valid

[low umbra]

impersonation

[karmic rose]

also very elaborately framed

[junior knot]

i would think they were the fall guy

not framed

[coarse fern]

is the fall guy

[versed junco]

Snooping as usual

[karmic rose]

if snooping is a felony lock me TF up

[tidal quiver]

oh god where do I even start with this one

[low umbra]

Disturbing the peace, no?

[karmic rose]

yup

[junior knot]

violating FDA regs

: homelessness

[low umbra]

Just… amputating legs and putting them in boots

[sharp violet]

trespassing

[tidal quiver]

violated the laws of physics

[low umbra]

Ok, how do people think cerenovus does their madness? It’s gotta be some sort of implant or lobotomy or something, surely

That seems highly illegal

[next marlin]

It's sort of a torture chamber thing

It's definitely illegal yeah

[versed junco]

Illegality is merely an opinion

[hollow oasis]

Ok so hear me out

They implant a bomb collar and tell them "hey do X"

or I'll blow it up

[versed junco]

Plagiarising Saw

[next marlin]

No it overwrites the original personality, madness executions are "you can remember who you are but you die in the process"

[hollow oasis]

hmmm

[grizzled marsh]

Criminal conspiracy

[dense moat]

Is charged with all of the above. did none of the above

Throwing up on the sidewalk

[foggy grotto]

Fashion Police got to her for looking to stylish

[abstract cosmos]

Not guilty your honour

[barren sun]

Idk man, I don't rule this place; ask the ones who answered like 10 times xd

[barren sun]

Btw I don't know how things work out in your countries, here everyone under 14 cannot be charged of anything

[barren sun]

Imo he's 18-20

[fast anchor]

impersonating authority ()

overenthusiastic arson
unexpected tigers (i know this one's a stretch, sue me)

[junior knot]

Isn’t the lycan crime an SI card?

[fast anchor]

wait until you hear about the other ones

[junior knot]

Oh I just read them

[fast anchor]

:)

[junior knot]

Lycan was just the first I processed first thing in the morning

[uneven field]

watch out saying a thing like that, people might just get on your case about it for the rest of time

[junior knot]

Whether or not Po is a minor, that’s the guise under which they were arrested

[uneven field]

nobody's doing their actual favourite so I won't either

[barren sun]

I can buy he looks underage
But to me it's a legal adult

[uneven field]

distribution of methamphetamine

[barren sun]

I literally can't think of anything for

They'd leave court as innocent

[uneven field]

conspiracy?

[dense moat]

Conspiracy

[uneven field]

easy

[dense moat]

Lmao we both said it

[uneven field]

it's that obvious

[barren sun]

But!

[uneven field]

masterminds always get found out

[barren sun]

They've bought the whole jury

[dense moat]

Whipping people at a church

[uneven field]

no that's baron

[dense moat]

||yes i went for the Bible reference||

[uneven field]

was actually convicted of 34 felonies but he isn't going to see jail time

[barren sun]

Pretty sure some kind of war crime

[uneven field]

no they're safe too

[dense moat]

Following the war crimes of

[uneven field]

it's actually who got in trouble for blowing the whistle

how many shots can I fire against real life people today?

[dense moat]

Growing their own seeds, instead of buying seeds from corporations

[uneven field]

if only there was a character called Journalist

then I'd have so much material to work with

possession of contraband

terrorism, mail bombing

[junior knot]

: environmental devastation

OR criminal negligence

depending on which firm she works for

[dense moat]

Honestly couldn’t tell you

[uneven field]

being arab

[dense moat]

My jokes was gonna be “travel ban” but I didn’t feel right being the one to make that joke