secret thing

[hollow oasis]

actually

no wrong place

[feral snow]

cocomelon - johnny johnny yes papa

Johnny Johnny yes papa the original video (if you don’t know what this is please ask it is glorious)

Yes psychopath was already done but like come on

[hollow oasis]

Big shot from deltarune? depends on the month tbh

the months before it was weird al

and like

neon mixtape tour remixes from PVZ2

[feral snow]

You’re exactly who I imagined you are

[hollow oasis]

I mean yea

you have me profiled

I'm ok with that

[fallow rapids]

potentially Goodnight Moon

by Go Radio

[fast anchor]

The original original or the cartoon one with the propellor hat

[fallow rapids]

don't we already have a question for today

[karmic rose]

Oh shit mb

I thought that was yesterday's lmao

Katy Perry hot and cold

[feral snow]

Whichever you think is more insane

[fresh shard]

was really into Edwin Starr

[sour harness]

FIRE

Have you played the recent chapters

[versed junco]

jumping at the nearest opportunity to talk about deltarune

[karmic rose]

big shot is so catchy

Toby Fox makes bangers

[tardy wyvern]

the undertale and deltarune soundtracks are so god damn good

[hollow oasis]

No I haven’t played deltarune

[sour harness]

You should fix that

[versed junco]

yes this is an issue

[junior knot]

I disagree. Let the kid focus on playing wizard101

You don’t need to make all BotC players clones of each other

We’re not a

[hollow oasis]

?

No I get the game is cool but also

TF2

[junior knot]

Team fortress or titan fall?

[versed junco]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say team fortress

[hollow oasis]

Yea

Team fortress

2

Oh yea

Deep Rock Galactic

[junior knot]

🪨 & 🥌

[hollow oasis]

Yes

Also Leaf Lover’s is obviously punishable by instant C4 on mission start

[karmic rose]

did anyone else ever play gang garrison 2 (a tiny exe file passed around on USB sticks to bypass restrictions on installing video games on school computers)

or am I weird

[hollow oasis]

What

I mean

[junior knot]

Those aren’t mutually exclusive

[hollow oasis]

What

[karmic rose]

gang garrison 2!! I swear I'm not hallucinating it

[hollow oasis]

I think

Like

[versed junco]

take your time

[hollow oasis]

I was going to make a joke

But I decided not to

[versed junco]

restraint

a wise decision

[feral snow]

RAHHHH W101 MENTIONED WHAT THE FUCK IS A PAYWALL

[acoustic chasm]

WIZARD101

[hollow oasis]

Huh

ngl forgot MMOs existed

thought they died with warcraft

[feral snow]

WOW is still going too lol

[hollow oasis]

oh damn

(Maybe it's because my parents played it 🤷‍♂️ )

[feral snow]

god I forget how young you are

[hollow oasis]

So do most people I interact with online

[junior knot]

I mean there's a better than even chance parker was born after what makes you beautiful by 1D came out, so yk

if you ever wanted to feel old

[feral snow]

this game predates him

[junior knot]

I prey he gets better

(pun intended)

[hollow oasis]

wtf is this

[junior knot]

i don't know your age, but its around middle school years ago

[hollow oasis]

I just got to highschool

backsolve from there

[junior knot]

oh, you're 9, got it

[hollow oasis]

this is half a compliment so I'll take it

[karmic rose]

I think you were probably alive when that song came out, but just barely

[hollow oasis]

I mean

If I'm the benchline for feeling old

that's great

[cyan reef]

I think this comment has single-handedly aged me more than anything I've ever seen before

[naive flame]

- Pretty Little Psycho by The Exorcist

- Attack of the Killer Queen by Toby Fox(Undertale)

- Line Without a Hook(we all know the virgin is a lonely lonely person waiting for love..)

[grizzled marsh]

[7/26] Make an homebrew character that looks weak but is actually strong, or that look strong but is actually weak

[naive flame]

#1176132734150787093 I believe is the right one but I'm not sure

[fast anchor]

Townsfolk - Evil can't win.

It's strong against, like, losscons and nothing else because you can just kill the Townsfolk in final 2

[karmic rose]

I'd say a majority of scripts have loss cons, though

This is definitely less strong than it looks, but a preacher/courtier sidegrade is still super good

[acoustic chasm]

Put it on a goblin script and pray

[karmic rose]

put it on a leviathan script for the memes

[fallow rapids]

Townsfolk - encap and a character type/alignment: they register as and might be considered as such tonight

[karmic rose]

to steal an example from Steven:

outsider: if you're executed, three players die and one player becomes an evil minion that night.

sounds spooky and then you realize it's just a jank saint

[fallow rapids]

me when i misregister the demon as good and the lycanthrope wants to eat tonight

second part is for shenanigans like considering the Sweetheart as a TF and drunking a minion

these sob reacts are correct

i mean my idea was that it was an ability that looks harmful at first until you realise the consequences

it's also pretty good at confirming itself

having a movable faux paw would be incredibly powerful for the good team ironically

[karmic rose]

Goober (townsfolk): if you are executed, all players learn you are the Goober.

[sour harness]

-# THAT'S FROM DELTARUNE NOT UNDERTALE, also Lena Raine and Marcy Nabors worked on that too

[sour harness]

(Townsfolk): Each night, choose a player: they are mad you are evil, or might be executed.

[next marlin]

Oh I have this ability every game

[junior knot]

Fabled (werewolf): all players are drunk.

[dense moat]

Here's one of my designs with a very strange appearance

Janitor (Townsfolk): If the Klutz chose an evil player, you may privately learn this & evil wins at dusk instead. [+the Klutz]

[versed junco]

NEEEERRD

FACTUALLY CORRECT NEEERRD

[junior knot]

You say that like we’re not in a discord server for a complex social deduction game

None of us would be here if we weren’t

[versed junco]

blood on the clocktower is very mainstream and hip I have no idea what you mean

[primal crescent]

LENA RAINEEEEE WHAT THE FUCK IS A BAD CELESTE TRACK 🗣️🗣️🗣️🦅🦅🦅🦅‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️

[sour harness]

doesnt exist 🔥

[primal crescent]

To clarify, if someone bluffed klutz, then that’d just look like they chose a good player right?

Bc you’re learning if they chose evil or not, not what alignment they chose

[dense moat]

I think so. That is the current wording

[foggy grotto]

HOLY BASED

PARKER MY GOAT

[dusty thistle]

[7/27] Add, remove, or replace one word in a townsfolk's ability to make them an outsider. (Or at least useless)

Executed players might not die.

Once per game, during the day, visit the Storyteller for some cryptic advice to help your team.

[feral snow]

you don't need to change pacifist

/j

Once per game, during the day, publicly choose a player: if they are the Demon, they win.

[dusty thistle]

Once per game, at night choose a player. They don't learn you are the Nightwatchman.

When a minion dies by execution, all other good players (except Travelers) are drunk until dusk tomorrow.

[supple dirge]

If the Demon kills you, you learn that it is 1 of 7 players.

If only 3 players live & no execution occurs, your team wins. If you die at night, another player might die too.

[dusty thistle]

The first time you are nominated, if the nominator is a Townsfolk, they are executed eventually.

Once per game, choose two players (not yourself): you learn if they are the same species.

[supple dirge]

Each night*, choose a player & guess their character: if you guess correctly, you die.

[supple dirge]

Goes crazy at furry cons

[dusty thistle]

Each night* choose a player and guess their character: if you guess, you die.

You start knowing 3 players, 1 and approximately 1 of which is evil.

[coarse fern]

You start knowing two players who are not the storyteller

[dusty thistle]

Each night, you learn a player of a potentially different character type than last night. [+0 or +1 Outsider]

[lean isle]

The 3rd time you would die, you don't.

[simple crystal]

Each day, you may not visit the Storyteller to learn 2 things in private: 1 is true & 1 is false.

On your 5th day, publicly guess up to 5 players' characters. That night, you learn how many you got correct.

[dusty thistle]

On your first day, if you nominated and executed a Demon, the Demon doesn't kill tonight.

[coarse fern]

You are safe from the Empath

[feral snow]

The evil Empath holding the Lil’ Monsta is fucking furious right now

[acoustic chasm]

: Each day, you may visit the Storyteller to learn 5 things in private: 1 is true & 1 is false.

[fast anchor]

Whoever wins, loses & whoever loses, loses, even if you are dead.

[simple crystal]

Each night, you see a Grimoire. You might register as good & as a Townsfolk or Outsider, even if dead.

[coarse fern]

Straight out of Trouble Bewing

Each night* choose a player (not yourself): they are from the demon tonight

[acoustic chasm]

You have the ability of the most recently killed executee. If they are dead, you are poisoned until a good player dies by execution.

[simple crystal]

Each night*, choose an alive player. If good, they die & the Demon doesn’t kill tonight. Every good player registers as evil.

[dusty thistle]

Put this in a Legion game and kill nobody at night.

[acoustic chasm]

If the Demon kills the King, you learn which player is the King. [+the King]

[fast anchor]

THATS TWO WORDS

[coarse fern]

Ok fine

[versed junco]

Each night*, choose a player: they die. [You choose which players are Witch Minions. -? to +? Outsiders]

[fallow rapids]

Each night*, choose a player: if they are or become drunk or poisoned tonight, you lose.

(get demoted from your promotion)

[wicked zodiac]

Minions & Demons do know each other. If you die, they learn who each other are that night.

Each night, choose an alive player: a chosen Demon swaps players & alignments with you & is then poisoned.

[fresh shard]

Each night, choose a player & a good character: you are "mad" they are this character tomorrow, or might be executed.

If the Demon kills you, you learn that it is 1 of 2 characters.

[fallow rapids]

not enough outsiders smh

just blank tokens

[fallow rapids]

this one isn't even that bad

in fact it can solve the demon early. it's just a worse trap character but it's not an outsider

[fresh shard]

Less so with a Vortox on script but fair

I was gonna say

[fallow rapids]

then both would be false

[fresh shard]

Each night, choose an alive player: either you or they are drunk until dusk. You might die.

[acoustic chasm]

Each night, choose an alive player: either you or they are drunk until dusk. You might die.

[fallow rapids]

still not bad ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[acoustic chasm]

;[[:[:[:[_:

GTIC8YVYIVYIVYI

[fresh shard]

[acoustic chasm]

HAHHAHHAHHAHA

[fallow rapids]

LOL

[acoustic chasm]

This is what this chat is for

[fresh shard]

It was going to be "you die" but then I realised it just confirms itself

[acoustic chasm]

I think "you will die" is funnier

[fallow rapids]

Each night*, you may choose a player: they poisoned. If your last choice was no-one, choose 3 players tonight.

well i mean. that's just a funny innkeeper

[fresh shard]

Each night*, choose a player & guess their SSN: if you guess wrong, you die.

The 1st time you die, you lose.

[fallow rapids]

Each night*, choose an alive player. If good, they die & the Demon doesn’t kill tonight. Every good player registers as evil.

bootleg vortox

[wicked zodiac]

If you publicly claim to be the Goblin when nominated & are executed that day, a team wins.

[fresh shard]

Each night*, choose 2 players: they can't drink tonight, but 1 is drunk until dusk.

[The Barman is notified of your choices]

[sharp violet]

You start knowing 2 players who are not the Knight

[zenith lotus]

Each night*, choose a player: you die. You start by choosing a player: they are poisoned. You die if & only if they are dead.

[sharp violet]

Each night, choose 2 players: you learn if either is the Demon. All good players register as the Demon to you.

[wicked zodiac]

i love how this is just a lleech that doesn't kill

the rest of it still works

Each night*, choose a player: they die. You start by choosing a player: they are dead. You die if & only if they are dead.

[naive flame]

You start knowing if your closest player is clockwise or anti-clockwise. If equidistant, this info is arbitrary.(COMPLETELY USELESS)

Once per game, at night*, choose a player: if they are a Townsfolk, they are resurrected.

Each night, learn which player the Storyteller believes you should talk to.

Each day, you may make a public statement. Tonight, if it was true, a good player dies.

[sour harness]

Vortox check

If the Demon kills the King, you learn which player is the King [+the King]

Each night, if the dead equal or outnumber the players, you learn 1 alive character. The Demon knows you are the King.

Once per game, at night, choose a good character: gain that ability. If this character is in play, Townsfolk are drunk.

Once per game, at night, choose a living player: the Baron, if chosen, becomes a not-in-play Townsfolk. [+the Damsel]

[dusty thistle]

The best part is this doesn't even guarantee a Baron is in play

[iron scarab]

You start poisoning 1 good player.

[shrewd cloud]

Each night, you learn how many of your 2 alive neighbors are alive.

[iron scarab]

If more than 1 good player is executed, good wins. All players know you are in play. After day 5, evil wins.

Each night*, you may choose 3 players (all players learn who): each silently chooses to live or die, but if all live, all live.

dont mind me just snatching up all the low hanging fruit

[junior knot]

Should have changed it to you die at the end. Woulda been much better

[iron scarab]

shiiiiiit that wouldve been funny

[dense moat]

Damn, this prompt went hard

You start knowing a secret word. For each time you said it publicly today, a player might die.

If only 2 players live & no execution occurs, your team wins. If you die at night, another player might die instead.

Once per game, at night, choose a character: they are evil for 3 nights & 3 days.

If the Lycanthrope kills you, you learn it is 1 of 2 players

[versed junco]

The Storyteller can break the game rules, and if executed, good wins, even if you are dead. [No characters]

[dense moat]

When you die at night, a dead good player becomes a Farmer

[tidal quiver]

If the demon kills you, all players learn this. From now on, you must nominate twice per day and vote twice per nomination.

[dense moat]

You start knowing 2 players that are not the Nightwatchman

Minions & Damsels do not know each other. If you die, they learn who each other are that night.

[versed junco]

Each night, choose a player: a Minion, if chosen, learns this. All chosen have no ability.

[sharp violet]

On your 32nd day, publicly guess up to 5 players' characters. That night, you learn how many you got correct.

Each night, you become the alignment of an alive neighbor. If all players choose to join your cult, your team wins.

Each night*, choose all alive players. If good, they die & the Demon doesn’t kill tonight. One good player registers as evil.

If the Demon kills you, you learn that it is 1 of 2 characters.

[sour harness]

Each night, you learn how many of your 2 evil neighbors are evil.

[sour harness]

Wait this is so good

[sharp violet]

The 1st time you are executed, if the nominator is a Townsfolk, they are executed immediately.

[dense moat]

The 1st time you die, you do

Each night*, choose a player (different to last night): the Yaggababble, if chosen, learns who you are then doesn't wake tonight.

You have a Minion ability. When using this, the Storyteller may prompt you to choose yourself.

You start knowing 1 player

[lost thistle]

[+1 Demon]

[barren zenith]

Each game* you learn if a demon voted

[tidal quiver]

But not on game one of course

[barren zenith]

Obviously not the first game, that'd be too powerful

[tidal quiver]

of course my bad

[dense moat]

Also, this joke inspired this mostly shitpost

**Huntsvizier (Townsfolk): **Each night, choose a player. If you chose a Minion, the Damsel learns who they are [+the Damsel]

[dense moat]

i do like the silliness of having the Damsel fact check you when they die, as well as using your tips to avoid Minions

[iron scarab]

close enough, welcome back the spiral

honestly i think this might unironically be peak though

[shrewd cloud]

Just put 32 day Juggler in a Zombuul game it’ll trigger /s

[iron scarab]

bit swingy but its so cool actually

[dense moat]

Once per game, at night, choose a living player: the Damsel , if chosen, becomes a not-in-play Townsfolk. [-the Damsel]

actually...

If the Demon kills the King, you learn which player is the Demon. [+the Demon]

Just as Steven Medway intended :)

[karmic rose]

"Each night, choose a dead player: a chosen Demon swaps characters & alignments with you & is then poisoned."

[dusty thistle]

On SnV, good in a Fang Gu game specifically.

[hollow oasis]

Executions fail if only good voted. Each night*, a player might die. [Most players are Legion]

[karmic rose]

I think it's an outsider because a successful snake charm is awful for town

[dusty thistle]

Oh, I was saying it still kinda works

It's definitely an outsider

[junior knot]

Also evil twin

Means a demon is kinda outed when it dies

But game still keeps going

[hollow oasis]

When you die, the Storyteller gains a fabled ability.

[dusty thistle]

Bootleg off-script atheist.

[hollow oasis]

This is fine

But wait

How do you immediately kill the PD at setup

[junior knot]

Hermit tinker?

[dusty thistle]

That's the neat part, you don't.

It's Atheist, you break the rules.

[junior knot]

!! This is how

[hollow oasis]

Then you don’t need the PD

[dusty thistle]

True but this is funnier.

[grizzled marsh]

Is the goal of this channel to make a new trouble bewing together?

"Each night, choose an alive player: a chosen Demon swaps seatings & alignments with you & is then poisoned."

"Each night*, you learn if a Minion whispered today."

[fresh shard]

You have the alignment of the recently killed executee. If they are evil, you are poisoned until a good player dies by execution.

(I don't think the poison does anything here)

[grizzled marsh]

"You have the ability of the recently killed executee. If they are evil, you are poisoned until a good demon dies by execution."

"You have all demon abilities. [-0 or -1 Outsider]"

(Or townsfolk but demon is funnier)

Insert an archivist joke

"You may choose to open your eyes at day. You wake when other evil players do."

"Each night, choose a player: you learn their name. [+0 to +2 Village Idiots. 1 of the extras is drunk]"

"Each day, you may make a public statement. Tonight, if it was pertinent, a player dies."

[sharp violet]

Each night*, choose a player: they die. [You choose which players are which good Minions. -? to +? Outsiders]

[dense moat]

Each night*, choose a player & guess their character. If wrong, they die

[lost thistle]

Each night*, choose a player: they die.

There are extra outsiders in play. [+500 Outsiders]

[coarse fern]

This will proc 0.00000001% of the time

[grizzled marsh]

"You are safe from the Slayer."

[sour harness]

The serendipitous slayer holding lil monsta and the phenomenal philosopher who got barista doubled and gained the soldier and recluse abilities:

[junior knot]

Fire Boffin ability

[valid garden]

[28/7] You've just made a teensyville script. Do you put toymaker on it? Why or why not?

[junior knot]

No (it’s little monsta/vizier+marionette)

[grizzled marsh]

I made about 1 teensy, but i'd assume that toymaker is a role you put pretty early on your teensy, or did i prove that i know nothing about script building?

[dusty thistle]

No (Po Teensy/Leviathan Teensy)

Yes (Any other Teensy)

[valid garden]

No that's a fair cop

"Did you put toymaker on it" is probably a better phrasing

[simple crystal]

I'd imagine it depends if you want to lean into The Teensy Experience™ or if you're trying to approximate a more normal game but with less players. I haven't made any teensies (at least none that I've stuck with), but the former is probably more interesting to me, especially with Seat 7 as an alternative if you want a normalish game.

[pseudo fulcrum]

Depends on how I imagine the teensy to play out

There are some teensies where evil needs to coordinate to get the intended effect, and for those I'll put Toymaker on, but generally I don't put Toymaker on my teensies

[naive flame]

BCWYS(my script about doubleclaiming), 🕵️/ scripts are no for me(come on,they know who the demon is..why would they need TO know it anyways)

[fast anchor]

It depends on what I'm trying to do, but usually not. There are cases where I'd want to make a character work that otherwise wouldn't* without Toymaker, like Magician or Poppy Grower, or I think the ability to skip a kill without having a dead body to sink into is interesting (deathmod like gambler/godfather/assassin or a Demon like Al-Hadikhia) — I think @tacit fiber's "Project Oasis" is a good exploration into both — but I feel like part of the fun of Teensyville is the lack of evil knowledge.

*Hallow's Levitation does a fun thing with Magician sans Toymaker by having them show up as the Marionette and putting a Recluse on script

script for reference

[sour harness]

Toymaker would make quadjank more like actual Clocktower and therefore it stays off

[tacit fiber]

omg yeah PO reference 🔥🔥

[lost thistle]

(time isn't real): fuck it, let's put the heretic into other games.

chess with a heretic? connect 4 with a heretic?

[dense moat]

isnt this today's question?

[junior knot]

Jenga with a heretic block

[dusty thistle]

Monopoly with a Heretic

Just buy houses and pray for street repairs

[dense moat]

Uno with a Heretic.

Mario Party with a Heretic 🔥

(this is a real challenge, though obviously not called that)

Battleship with Heretic sounds funny.

You get told you hit & immediately go to the other side of the board

[dusty thistle]

Risk with a Heretic would actually be really fun

[dusty thistle]

I think

[junior knot]

Russian roulette with a heretic

[dusty thistle]

That's just regular Russian roulette

[wicked zodiac]

chess but you can promote pawns to a heretic (it cant move)

[fast anchor]

spirit island with a heretic

[dusty thistle]

Strangely, I don't think chess with Heretic changes much. A perfect game is still a draw

Just look at antichess

[fast anchor]

chess discussion reminds me of selfmate puzzles (as the name suggests)

[dense moat]

Poker with Heretic

[fast anchor]

but i doubt you're getting those in a real game

[junior knot]

Rock paper scissors with a heretic

[lost thistle]

i fold

[fast anchor]

ONE TIME

[dusty thistle]

I'm all in

[lost thistle]

WAIT DID THIS ACTUALLY HAPPEN???

[dusty thistle]

THEN I fold

[dense moat]

Even more funny if there was a card someone had that could trigger Heretic if they held it

Now you really dont know what to do

[junior knot]

No no no

[dusty thistle]

Even funnier is that Poker where lowest hand wins exists

[junior knot]

Poker with heretic isn’t about losing your money

It just flips the ranking of hands

[dusty thistle]

And there's a variant where the highest and lowest hand splits the pot

The pots get really high

[dense moat]

good to know

[junior knot]

Fire rules for a 2p game

[dusty thistle]

Especially if you can take both

[dense moat]

chutes & ladders with Heretic

[dusty thistle]

Because if you think you can make two hands and win both with 6 of your 7 cards, you take the whole pot

[dusty thistle]

Ex: Axe, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 of differing suits is a straight and a 6 high

[dense moat]

Smash Bros with heretic

Who can run off the ledge fastest?

[dusty thistle]

Meta Knight side b spam reigns supreme

[junior knot]

Kirby still eats the opponent then spits them up as he’s close to the bottom

[dusty thistle]

I think there's an advanced trick to hit yourself with Snakes C4 and take large amounts of knockback

[junior knot]

Mario kart with heretic would ruin families

[dusty thistle]

Idk I don't play smash

[dusty thistle]

That's just blue shell only

Or cheese land

[junior knot]

Pokemon with heretic

[karmic rose]

yeah that exists. the move "explosion" is banned iirc

[junior knot]

Life orb false swipe stonks

[viscid citrus]

chess with heretic is real

[dusty thistle]

I prefer atomic

[junior knot]

Ok something I think we’re all missing is that heretic is hidden

[dusty thistle]

But yes, antichess exists

[junior knot]

Not everyone should be aware the rules have flipped

But they should be aware of the possibility

[dry sluice]

Synchronized swimming w/ heretic

[tidal quiver]

ONUW with a heretic character sounds really fun

[junior knot]

Competitive hotdog eating with heretic

[dusty thistle]

The problem is that most games have only one path to victory

For both teams

That you can't both progress towards and not progress towards at the same time

[junior knot]

Skill issue

[dusty thistle]

It is impossible to score goals to win while not scoring goals to lose

[junior knot]

Just keep it tied until you can determine

Score goals for both teams

[sour harness]

RPS with a heretic

[junior knot]

League with a heretic

Bc it’s not toxic enough already

[sour harness]

Nah that one already has a heretic, you lose by playing

[dusty thistle]

Street Fighter with Heretic

Because I'm running out of ideas

[sour harness]

Wrestling with a heretic

[junior knot]

DnD with a heretic

[dusty thistle]

That exists. It's my group

[junior knot]

Strip poker with a heretic

[dusty thistle]

Ticket to Ride with a Heretic

[junior knot]

Secret hitler/avalon with a heretic

[dusty thistle]

Nuclear war with a Heretic.

[junior knot]

Madden with a heretic

[dusty thistle]

Just regular nuclear war

[junior knot]

Fallout with a heretic

Minesweeper with a heretic

[dusty thistle]

Just play American Football at that point

[dusty thistle]

That actually sounds fun

Aside from finding mines, you need to find out whether to detonate or not

[junior knot]

Chicken with a heretic

[dusty thistle]

Just regular chicken

[next marlin]

big fan of this one

[junior knot]

Campaign for North Africa with a Heretic

Yes, that one

[dusty thistle]

If the movie War Games has taught me anything, the only winning move is not to play.

[junior knot]

Tic tac toe with a heretic

[dusty thistle]

I haven't seen it I just know the quote

[dusty thistle]

This exists

Multiplayer Civ Vi with a hidden Heretic actually sounds like fun if you implement it correctly.

[junior knot]

Guitar Hero or just dance with a heretic

[dusty thistle]

Do those games have winners?

Boxing with a Heretic.

Just lie on the mat

[junior knot]

Same with twister

[fast anchor]

no but "one time" is something poker players say when they're shooting to one out

(like a heretic)

[junior knot]

[7/29]: If you had to combine 3 characters to make the most powerful role what would they be? (generally no traveller unless the vibe is immaculate ie Cult Leader + Matron or Vizier + Judge)

Mine would probably be Typhon + Dashii + Yag for most powerful demon;
Invest + Clock + Bounty for Town;
Hermit has already covered this for outsiders;
Probably either OG/Viz/DA for synnergy, or PH, Psycho, Goblin for fun

[coarse fern]

A powerful minion would be Assassin + Poli

[junior knot]

that's not 3

spidow so you can be double sure you're hitting the demon/no heretics in play

not that it'd matter, you'd just win normally then

[coarse fern]

Assassin + Poli + Golem

[next marlin]

style points

[junior knot]

(also feel free to mix up types)

[wicked zodiac]

shabaloth + spy + pithag or something idk

[next marlin]

Lots of range in the "minion + poli" sphere actually

[junior knot]

not that I'm a Secret thing cop or anything

[coarse fern]

Also demon + poli

[next marlin]

Marionette + Politician so Marionette finally has a high winrate

[junior knot]

Imp + poli + inverse SoI is actually so fucking funny

especially if there's an SW or other sort of safety net

(DA desperately trying to keep the demon from leroy jenkinsing)

[coarse fern]

Vigor + Recluse + Mastermind is fun

Well

“Fun”

[next marlin]

doesn't work but scarlet does

oh wait yeah no all at once

[junior knot]

To clarify it's one 'token' having all 3 abilities imprinted on it

[next marlin]

yeah it works

[coarse fern]

Yeah

You should be able to kill yourself and trigger a mastermind day

[junior knot]

Idk

Mastermind is dies by execution, is it not?

[coarse fern]

Oh yeah

[junior knot]

ending the game

[next marlin]

yeah but vigorkilling a mm works so [handwave]

[junior knot]

trust me it was a whole discussion when adding it to BSN

[ebon idol]

I think Typhon Fang Gu and Po is strongest demon combo tbh

[junior knot]

It goes back to consant checks versus interrupts

[coarse fern]

I don’t want to deal with the rules, it works

[junior knot]

I think Yag kinda has to be for the lack of upper limits, no?

and no downtime like with po

[coarse fern]

Yag is ST dependent

[junior knot]

but i guess that's also my whiterooming it, I have played 3 total yag scripts, 2 of which ended in damsel guesses so...

sorry same script 3 times

Athiest + Wizard + Amne: you didn't actually want to play clocktower did you?

Tea Lady + Sailor + Grandmother: So what's a final 3?

(just always pick your grandchild, and you'll never die, and so eventually neither will your neighbors)

[ebon idol]

Depends how things are comboed ig

[ebon idol]

Yeah

Like it’s not powerful as you’d just. Not abuse it (any more than it already is abusable)

[junior knot]

also depends on if you yap in your clocktower games (i already do it way too much)

A yag script hates to see me coming

[ebon idol]

Even if you yap I just wouldn’t kill that much if you are two other demons in addition, which is why I’m not ranking it powerfully

[junior knot]

(listen this question was not inspired by balance) (its about pushing the limits of niche interactions) (its about the power fantasy not grounding it in reality)

I appreciate the genuine engagement though

definitely relevant, just not where I was originally coming from

[fallow rapids]

Good morning town, Bob over there is the Vizier Wraith Huntsman

[tacit fiber]

(Alhad, Zombuul, Imp)

[spiral pollen]

leviathan / vortox is broken

[warped urchin]

Not really

It just means they have to do a d1 execution and just kill a corpse for a few days after

[valid garden]

Nope, the leviathan would still win if that player is good

[warped urchin]

Oh wait

True

[valid garden]

Fig. 1

All types of execution count, even if the player doesn’t die. A player executed due to the Virgin, or due to revealing that they are the Mutant, is still executed. An executed player who lives due to the Pacifist is still executed.

[warped urchin]

💀

[valid garden]

Fig. 2

If a good player is executed, mark them with the GOOD PLAYER EXECUTED reminder.

If a good player is executed and a player is already marked with the GOOD PLAYER EXECUTED reminder, declare that evil wins.

[warped urchin]

Yeah I remembered

[valid garden]

I considered it not working because it is "if more than 1 good player" is executed, and technically the same good player is executed twice

But the HTR clears that up

[warped urchin]

Just make sure you execute an evil

Easy

[valid garden]

Bounty hunter

[zenith lotus]

which learns good players because its a vortox game

[worldly jasper]

Knight then

Learn 2 players, one is the demon

[next marlin]

I've seen a loss because town forgot this

[valid garden]

...damn

You got me there

[dusty thistle]

That's a good +4 evils

Should be enough

[grizzled marsh]

Any demon except yagg levi lil'monsta pukka + heretic
A townsfolk with soldier + two demons
Tbf just put 3 demons in 1 and you're winning most of the time
Townsfolk widow + nightwatchman + virgin/golem (golem is more powerful)
Townsfolk spy + damsel is a fun combo btw (||add magician and now you have the mole, just be sure that vanilla magician and damsel is also on the script||)
Leviathan + vizier + spy (you register as good for your own ability)

[dusty thistle]

The strongest theoretical evil team setup in my opinion is with the Boffin giving the Alchemist Vizier ability.

[grizzled marsh]

Quadjank 🔥

[dusty thistle]

I keep hearing about this Quadjank, can I see the PNG?

[dusty thistle]

Thanks!

[digital drum]

Gave +1 Thanks to @grizzled marsh (current: #766 - 45)

[dusty thistle]

You can achieve a similar effect with and by using an Alc-DA, but then the ST can decide to make you choose again. Because why would you make this bag if not for this specific cheese strategy.

[fast anchor]

Quadjank canonically uses old alchemist fwiw

[fast anchor]

Here's the actual script image

[dusty thistle]

Thanks!

[digital drum]

Gave +1 Thanks to @fast anchor (current: #3 - 2157)

[fast anchor]

(and night order)

[dusty thistle]

Wait, this allows for the infinite boffin chain

Best Teensy ever

[fast anchor]

the infinite boffin chain?

[dusty thistle]

Philo into Alchemist, get the Boffin ability

[grizzled marsh]

Boffin alchemist boffin alchemist boffin alchemist

[dusty thistle]

Repeat ad infinitum

It's even easier with new Alchemist!

[karmic rose]

could also wreak some havoc

[sour harness]

Wait style points is such a fun way to answer this question

Townsfolk btw

Learn the king, nominate them, learn the demon

[dense moat]

Even if the Legion members don’t immediately murder the good team, you’ll have a hard time getting rid of all them

[dense moat]

Actually… Soldier is better here, because then the ST can’t night kill Legions

[dry sluice]

do not doubt the humble Tea Lady + Soldier + Nightwatchman

unfortunately, they fall to the Evil Twin Goblin Poisoner

[junior knot]

[grizzled marsh]

Townsfolk widow slayer poisoner

[junior knot]

Learn yourself

since you killed em

[sour harness]

im going for style points, of course i know that thats possible

[junior knot]

no i think you can't learn other demons as Choirboy

Oh wait nvm, my bad, was mixing it up with Sage

[dry sluice]

only loses if it's executed on days 1 and 2. Add for good measure

[junior knot]

why not give it for good measure

[lucid crag]

Townsfolk*:

assume there's 1 to 3 of them

and 1 is drunk

[sharp violet]

Townsfolk:

Beggar makes you sober/healthy so you can never die, and also lets you check an executed Townsfolk claim's alignment so you can revive them and confirm you both while you're still unable to die

[sour harness]

Creative, I love it

Style points earned

[grizzled marsh]

outsider

[coarse fern]

Oh god

[junior knot]

@hollow oasis ‘s ultimate TF CL

[fallow rapids]

outsider

[junior knot]

Bs

[fallow rapids]

the demon kills you and the ST must redirect the kill

[junior knot]

It’s only if you would die

Soldier makes mayor bounce from demon impossible

[fallow rapids]

i forgot

[junior knot]

Also that doesn’t solve the problem of confirmed wincon

[fallow rapids]

well dang. redirection ability failed

insert poisoner here

[junior knot]

Then you can’t bounce either

[fallow rapids]

just put damsel on it

[junior knot]

It’d have to be boffin courtier

[grizzled marsh]

Damsel virgin outsider is definitely something

Especially if virgin isn't on script

[fallow rapids]

mayor damsel virgin outsider...

[junior knot]

If it was a tf it could at least self nom

[grizzled marsh]

But it's not a townsfolk

But yeah, self-nom kills it tbf

[fallow rapids]

i just wanted an all-tf ability outsider

well without like the obvious pacifist / cl

[junior knot]

All tf outsider

- TF

[grizzled marsh]

Probably still a townsfolk tho

[junior knot]

?

[fallow rapids]

outsider because it makes the ST annoyed

[grizzled marsh]

(Who could've known that 3 of the strongest townsfolks well assuming sailor is on the very strong side together work badly)

[junior knot]

Not or ?

[fallow rapids]

well tbf for outsuder shenanigans the gossip would just not gossip

CL being an outsider doesn't real feel all that different you're just trusting the CL even less

juggler on the other hand

has no way to hurt the town

pure ST annoyance

[junior knot]

:cacklejack:

[junior knot]

more for daytime shenaniganery and time wastery

[fallow rapids]

"oh no"

[junior knot]

--> definitely contention for weakest

[fallow rapids]

clock investigator mutant

i hath solved thee gamw

[grizzled marsh]

Self kill

[unkempt tangle]

[hollow oasis]

Fire

[grizzled marsh]

That's hermit

[tidal quiver]

as a townsfolk. say your phrase fifty times in town square and then get to a d2 f3 having confirmed yourself

[iron scarab]

Minion:

[grizzled marsh]

[7/30] Give some examples of BOTC situations that would be weird in another context

trying to execute someone

[karmic rose]

"I think we should hang me to see if I die"

[lost thistle]

“I drank with the baby”

[valid garden]

"Kill me, I'm babysitting today"

[junior knot]

“Guys we should ignore the serial killing and try to find the demon”

[dense moat]

Please join my cult

[junior knot]

That’s not weird at all

That’s just normal evangelism

[feral snow]

“please god I need to find a Virgin”

[junior knot]

/proselytizing

[dense moat]

Using the word cult?

[junior knot]

Isn’t this just Mano sphere TikTok / YouTube?

[feral snow]

and that’s normal?

[junior knot]

I mean no but…

[junior knot]

I guess not

[dense moat]

I gambled you and I died

[valid garden]

"I think you're the demon"

[dense moat]

Good news! The King died.

[junior knot]

I Gossiped yesterday and 8 people died last night so it must be true

[dense moat]

If we execute the Lunatic, the Godfather's gonna kill us

[coarse fern]

I punched this person and they survived! We have to execute them

[abstract cosmos]

I did some deep thinking on the matter and I have joined the war on evil on the side of evil

[tardy wyvern]

this is unfortunately something more and more people are saying nowadays

[dusty thistle]

The grandmother drank me under the table

[karmic rose]

average family gathering

[foggy grotto]

His lawyer is protecting him, let's execute him again

The Banshee has Awoken

[lucid crag]

Harlot don't visit me I'm a goon!

[lost thistle]

what? i thought i asked for goons!

[simple crystal]

yeah if you want to kill me and eat me you can

[junior knot]

I’d make good food

Any top 4’s down to diet

[flat lintel]

the baby is drunk

[supple dirge]

The boss baby

[grizzled marsh]

https://tenor.com/view/bedtime-boss-baby-gif-18599486

[grizzled marsh]

asking people to tell them their job before unsuccesfully juggling with balls featuring their name and job

[junior knot]

[7/31]: Either 1) Post your own wizard wish 2) Reply to a wish with a cost 3) Reply to a cost with a clue

[warped urchin]

I wish anyone who nominates immediately dies

[junior knot]

Cost: Dead players may nominate and have infinite ghost votes

[warped urchin]

:(

Wait do dead players learn the cost?

Bc if they don't that's probably fine

[junior knot]

(that's where the clue comes in)

[dense moat]

Clue: The Storyteller makes a remark about the Voudon

[junior knot]

I wish that for every demon that is executed and dies, the demonhood is passed to the least useful living minion.

[fallow rapids]

y'all i'm the
(town shock)
(washerwoman approval)

[next marlin]

"Least useful" defined as "least useful to hold the demonhood", enjoy having the one outed evil chaos player be the demon

[junior knot]

its ok it can still bounce back to me afterwards

[ebon idol]

I wish for world peace

[hollow oasis]

Denied, otherwise NWC wouldn't exist

In actual costs:

Granted. The Storyteller is now able to be executed.

||The Result is that if this occurs, the evil team becomes good.||

[karmic rose]

I wish for $20 irl

[warped urchin]

Granted, I put $20 of your money on black

[coarse fern]

Clue: $20 of your money is on black

[dusty thistle]

I wish to rerack

[fast anchor]

no :(

[coarse fern]

Cost: the rerack doesn’t have you in it

[karmic rose]

clue: the game is reracked

[versed junco]

I wish to gain the ability of the most recent homebrew minion posted to Reddit

[coarse fern]

https://www.reddit.com/r/BloodOnTheClocktower/comments/1mbs7mr/homebrew_minion_the_haunted_doll/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

This makes you a thrall I think

[versed junco]

Well

I think the cost is I have to live with this

[lost thistle]

I wish for a living townsfolk to become the Damsel.

[dry sluice]

(Assuming it's early in the game so there are plenty of townsfolk alive:) Granted! If Damsel is on the script, I don't think this needs a cost. Otherwise, I'm giving one other player the Huntsman ability in addition to their own.

On a Damsel script, after being told there's a Damsel in play: my Wizard wish is to get a hint about who the Damsel is.

[karmic rose]

granted.

The hint would be equivalent to a boffined fisherman or something

[sour harness]

Id tell them ~3 living non damsels (depends on player count)

[junior knot]

The evil team?

[sour harness]

The wizard yeah

[junior knot]

No I meant tell them the evil team

As 3 living nondamsels

[coarse fern]

I’d think they already got that info during evil info

[junior knot]

Yes, I'd tell them again

(that's the joke)

[lucid crag]

I wish good players that are mad they are losing died

[dusty thistle]

Granted, Evil players mad they are winning might also die.

[lucid crag]

oh this is eas- dies

[vale oxide]

Clue: all players immediately die

[main axle]

I wish that whenever a good player nominates while on the block, they are executed immediately as long as there is another living good player.

[lucid crag]

cost: this doesn't happen if said good player on block nominates an evil player

clue: the saint that got on the block day 1 noms your demon and your demon is executed

[dry sluice]

seems fair; if anyone gets on the block then town has already decided it's ok if they get executed!
cost: this doesn't happen if <5 live
clue: it happening

[pseudo fulcrum]

1/8: What's the easiest evil win you've ever had?

[cold veldt]

definitely something boring like town just saying "fuck it we ball" day 1 and executing the saint. so instead i'm gonna talk about one of my devious schemes, where i was the Devil's Advocate that protected the other Minion day 1. as intended, said minion was a Goblin, whom i told that i would get them executed today, and told them not to claim Goblin. i said i dreamt them as the DA or an incorrect character to town, they get executed, and live. the next day, we nom them again and they actually claim goblin, and then we execute them and win

[simple crystal]

I was Vortox in a game where no one stopped to consider that it might be Vortox until very late, even though the alch goblin was executed without ending the game (using oldchemist "learns the wrong minion" rules). To be fair though, it was also the first wizard game we played, so everyone was too on the lookout for bullshit to actually solve the game.

Oh yeah also the cannibal alchemist wizard who thought they gained the boffin ability wished for their cannibal ability to work no matter what (without really expecting it to do anything), which meant after we executed the good cult leader and I killed them in the night, they mechanically had to turn evil and win with the evil team, despite being dead. That part's not related to the easy win, it's just funny

[vale oxide]

I was the DA in a Lil Monsta game...

[valid garden]

I was the mastermind, widow claimed philo-princess & executed our demon day 1, night of no deaths, therefore princess, then we executed the real princess to feed to a cannibal

Day 2 evil win that nobody suspected

[karmic rose]

first wizard game, so everyone is submitting meme wishes
wizard wishes publicly for each player to get a wish
evil team member wishes for a vortox, which is off-script
good team wishes for a heretic, jokingly
nobody is executed

[tacit fiber]

win as Mezepheles

in whalebuffet

in a teensy

without SoI

[valid garden]

This is a good win, yeh?

[karmic rose]

yeah lmao

[grizzled marsh]

(I certainly wonder what tomorrow's question will be)
Teensy 5p toymaker shabaloth game, no exe D1, two deaths N2 and the final alive good player nominated so evils could rise up
The other option is a teensy leviathan game where i was the demon, bluffing savant and having basically no one contesting my worldbuilding
The other option is a teensy lil'monsta game where i was holding it, bluffing savant and having basically no one contesting my worldbuilding

[tardy wyvern]

There was one time when I was the Imp in TB and the WW, lib, and invest all saw the spy and the recluse in their pings. This invalidated most of towns info and made it so the only real TF were the empath I killed on night 3 and the mayor that the ST forgot to let bounce. The Saint was a newer player so when they got put on the block because I claimed FT yes on them, they didn’t out Saint until we had already gotten the votes and we won

[lost thistle]

uh.

probably that emoji only SnV game where i claimed good twin as the demon while there was an actual twin pair and somehow got the actual good twin executed

on day Two.

[karmic rose]

emoji only SnV... now we're innovating

[next marlin]

solutions to the Longtext SnV problem:

1. fibbin
2. not being allowed to use words
3. playing 3 games at once

[junior knot]

4. Offscript Athiest
5. Playing with dumbasses who can't worldbuild
6. Play the transfem's Sex and Violence

[next marlin]

Oh I've heard of #5 succeeding

I'll have to try #4

[dusty thistle]

Whale buffet game where multiple players were hard confirmed as either good or evil (because of my Vizier shenanigans). Town was so distracted by me and the other minion the Al-Had never picked themselves and nobody questioned it.

Also, poor coordination led to town getting hit with 2 triple kills

[fallow rapids]

[klutz picks the mez turned]

[junior knot]

Klutz picking the mez turned player, or the klutz player being mez turned?

Bc klutz can only lose for their team, so if they were evil picking evil, that's a good win

[fallow rapids]

first one

i'm the librarian that saw klutz, was mez turned then the klutz dies n2 and picks me

truly unfortunate klutzing

[junior knot]

sorry but klutz and mez is just evil scriptbuilding (no pun intended)

[foggy grotto]

very hard to pull off but a coast once it worked:

DA protected my Zombuul, then the godfather killed them. We convinced town to double-tap them specifically that day, and then after convincing them the next day was a MM day, town never even thought about tapping them again and we won

[fallow rapids]

eh i do it

for one it's quite unlikely that it's going to be a problem and even then the ST can bag build around it

[junior knot]

To me its the same issue of FG drunk

[sour harness]

Squall tell the story

Well, your story. I need to think of mine

[junior knot]

Well mine is really straightforward, a day 2 correct damsel guess (they were being super obvious about it)

[karmic rose]

wait I totally missed the word "evil" in the prompt.... I'm dumb

[sour harness]

Ooh one time I was playing HHR (against my will) and there was an amne clockmaker, but all 3 evils were spaced out evenly. For whatever reason town voted on the goblin and wasn't gonna lift... And then I correctly guessed the damsel for style points

[junior knot]

Damn, Damsel

[supple dirge]

Got a day 1 fearmonger win as the fearmonger. Lord of Typhon game, picked someone on the opposite side of me, just happened to be someone everyone seems to think is suspicious and nominated them at the perfect time day 1 when people were ready to execute and piled on enough votes town couldn't tie or get someone else on the block. Everyone on the evil team went wild when we won at the end of the day

[warm gate]

I wouldn't classify this as an "easy" evil win per se, but this is definitely the most memorable one I've ever had

• First time playing SnV, I pull Evil Twin
• My twin and I learn each other
• Instead of bluffing my twin's role, I bluff Dreamer (badly)
• Town assumes that I'm Cerenovus-mad
• After a few days, I manage to get my Good Twin executed

[supple dirge]

Twins claiming different things happens so rarely, it should be done more often

[nimble rose]

The last time I played with a twin pair, the good twin claimed mathematician and the evil twin claimed artist because they don't like bluffing mathematician

[ivory ridge]

what happened 😭

[nimble rose]

We didn't have to solve the twin pair because the demon barber swapped the evil twin with a dead player who they thought was the barber because the ST ran barber in night order instead of immediately

[tardy wyvern]

This reminds me of the one time I was running a twin game of SNV and the good twin forgot what role they were, so instead of asking me, they asked the evil twin, who lied to them

The good twin then got executed on day 1

[karmic rose]

cinema

[iron scarab]

https://tenor.com/view/absolute-cinema-cat-absolute-cinema-cat-gif-8724746330989628604

[coarse fern]

Ceremad good twin forgot they were the good twin and really really wanted to out their clockmaker info because they were being double claimed by the evil twin

[lost thistle]

“being double claimed by the evil twin”
🔥

[lucid crag]

i was a baron and didn't come online yet and my fellow minion already guessed the damsel day 1

[foggy grotto]

8/2: in parallel to yesterday’s question, what was the easiest win you’ve ever had that you somehow fumbled into a loss?

[fast anchor]

accidentally told the sw who the heretic was 🫠

...the heretic I had dreamed N1 and was effectively hard confirmed

(other side was vigor & we executed them d1)

[grizzled marsh]

Final 5. Town had a demon candidate in mind and was on the block with 3 votes (8p game). I deadvoted on the next execution to see who would vote to lift it (and make them outed evil). The demon voted right before their vote would be locked. The butler voted too to follow their master (the demon) without thinking about it. Guess who got executed the next day

[feral snow]

Dusk with a homebrew townsfolk replacing noble. It’s a 9p lil Monsta game and I’m the Cerenovus. Damsel outs to my other minion but the minion is too afraid to guess. Damsel is executed. The player I’ve been choosing as cere is nominating. They break, expecting to be executed. They were the cannibal. I go “oh okay I’m glad we’re removing this” in my head. They say “I’m the cannibal damsel”. I suddenly remember how cannibal works. Easiest win ever

[feral snow]

BMR. Was Zombuul. Made the goon evil and cooked up a plan to get them to confirm me after I was executed. I was drunk because I chose the goon, so I turned them evil and made them lose with me 😭

Oh I have another story but I wasnt on their team

[hollow oasis]

Step A:told the magician I was the goblin.

Step B:Publicly claimed that if town ever slept, I could choose a player to become evil(I private chatted people telling them I would turn them specifically)

Step C:Profit, town slept and I was the Vortox

[feral snow]

S&V. Final 6. We don’t execute the demon. Despite all evil players sitting together, they don’t coordinate. Fang Gu jumps. Final 4. The new FG nominates in an all evil final 4. They’re witch cursed 😭😭😭😭😭

[hollow oasis]

Oh yea and I even claimed goblin

[hollow oasis]

No…

Ok seriously evil fucking coordinate

[karmic rose]

just played a game where all of the evils voted on the demon, who was executed and died

[acoustic chasm]

I love when evil double triple quadruple bluff

into a loss

[coarse fern]

New world chaos, Mad Man picked outed demon on final day

[grizzled marsh]

[8/3] One townsfolk is secretely evil and murdered the sweetheart. How did the investigation go?

(The empath couldn't find any evilness on the alchemist, look elsewhere)

[dense moat]

Had a lot to say about the Sweetheart last night

Raised concerns the Sweetheart was a Demon

Still doesn’t know if they were a disguised Imp or a red herring

[sharp violet]

Tried to hunt down the murderer, accidentally found instead

[ebon idol]

talk to someone else im eating lunch

[sharp violet]

constantly squabbling with each other over who it could be, makes no real progress

[versed junco]

Has determined that two plus two does, in fact, equal four

[dense moat]

Whoever the evil Townsfolk was, they are probably now the Spy who is hiding really well from everyone

[lost thistle]

i’m not even a townsfolk what are you all looking at me for 😭

hey guys did you know that the number 1 is neither prime nor composite? please stop calling 1 prime its not prime its not prime stop calling it that

anyways i learnt a 1 last night

[versed junco]

Has killed the Mathematician

[dense moat]

Doesnt remember (made themselves drunk)

[fast anchor]

remember when secret thing was about the game and headcanon questions were once-in-a-way things? pepperidge farm remembers

died of a heart attack the moment someone told her their child was dead

[dusty thistle]

Leading town on a chase to find out who killed their min-I mean the Sweetheart.

[foggy grotto]

The is distraught over his lover's death and actively hinders the investigation by drinking with everyone

[fallow rapids]

The is sweating due to the possibility of a

[coarse fern]

waiting for everyone to find the evil tf so they can punch them (they’re the evil tf and already punched the sweetheart)

[dense moat]

-# Golem is not a Townsfolk

[coarse fern]

Are you sure about that?

[junior knot]

Depends on the script

[dense moat]

Is too busy investigating Cerenovus sightings to care about evil Townsfolk

[fast anchor]

[4/8] Bringing back an old one, with a slight caveat.

Without mentioning the High Priestess (because that conversation is done to death), what is your BotC hot take?

[warped urchin]

I dont talk to enough people to know what counts as a hot take

[next marlin]

My botc hot take is that no one gives their real answer to this

(because you get derided if you try)

[pseudo fulcrum]

I've been waiting for this one for a while

I've had a lot of hot takes recently

Some I've shared have included:
Assassin is fine on Leviathan scripts
Claiming Damsel while alive is useless

My new one is:
In even player, 1 kill per night games, town should almost always sleep on day 1

Because every single even player 1kpn game, we always end up getting to 4 alive and then sleeping, with like 2-3 good abilities left, one of which will be killed and the others will be framed, making them almost useless

Why are we giving an extra night to these abilities when we could sleep on day 1 and give an extra night of info to EVERY SINGLE ABILITY

We're going to have to sleep eventually anyway, so day 1 is probably the best time

[next marlin]

I think I'm starting to develop this same take on scripts that don't have a strong execution incentive (the b3 all do, but on customs this is often worth sacrificing for other opportunities)

The big downside is it removes your TPK buffer

[next marlin]

I am more curious about these two

[vernal tiger]

too often, Fisherman info is just a true Savant statement

"Discard all worlds where a Godfather is in play" is equivalent to "There is no Godfather" - its fine, just boring

[pseudo fulcrum]

Actually I should change the Damsel hot take slightly to be more clear

[vernal tiger]

"Claiming dead Damsel is useless"?

[pseudo fulcrum]

No claiming Damsel while dead is useful and an interesting strategy

Claiming Damsel while alive is useless to me

[vernal tiger]

i mean i don’t think people do it seriously

and less people claiming truthfully esrlygame gives Damsel more bluff space

[pseudo fulcrum]

My point is this:
Claiming Damsel is equivalent to claiming nothing, so if I hard claim to you and you then claim Damsel back to me, you've basically given me nothing for my hard claim which doesn't feel great
I would rather you lie to me than claim Damsel to me because that at least gives me something
And, if you actually want to cover for the damsel/trick evil into thinking you're the Damsel, I feel like just claiming something random with made up info is more likely going to get you guessed (thereby outing a minion) than claiming Damsel

[valid garden]

"Creative" ways to ask about someone's character are pointless

[acoustic chasm]

In what way are they pointless?

[fast anchor]

aww, but silly questions are silly though

[valid garden]

If someone comes up to me and says "I'd keep my character's icon in a box!" then that's worse than a 3

Like either hardclaim to me, gimme a 2, or intentionally give me no claim

[acoustic chasm]

I don't often do creative claims but I disagree

[valid garden]

I mean I'd expect that, it'd be a pretty cold take if people agreed with me

[acoustic chasm]

1. Creative claims are good with players who might be so cagey they might do no claim. Players may be more honest with their claims because they are vague.

2. Some questions might have answers which tell you more than a 3 if you're lucky. Like I remember finding the Monk because I asked the question "what genre of film is your character from" and they said "martial arts"

3. Most importantly, they're low stakes and fun. I think these types of conversations are much more memorable than a 3 or a 2. I still remember when a Fang gu bamboozled me with their creative claim. Its turned into an inside joke. I think that must count for something in a social game.

[valid garden]

Fair

[acoustic chasm]

Maybe they aren't optimal, but I think calling them pointless is a step too far

[valid garden]

I personally dislike them

[acoustic chasm]

Aww but that's much less of a hot take than they are pointless ;)

My lukewarm take is:

Kazali Drunk is overhated, and its issues can be resolved with scriptbuilding.

[fleet hedge]

Creative claims can be really good as a way to lock in your claim on day 1 without actually informing people of what you are

If you can point out the link to your character later then the player will trust that you're not a minion who had to pivot

If I were the Ravenkeeper I could give a non-obvious creative claim to someone and claim FT to everyone else, then later when I pivot I'll reveal the link behind my claim and that person will know I didn't pivot

Kazali Drunk is fun if you break token integrity, otherwise it feels bad imo

It's the only time I break token integrity

My tepid take is that 2f2s and 3f3s serve only to benefit evil most of the time

[vernal tiger]

creative claims are just fun

like low utility sure but it’s just fun and more interesting then “You’re X I’m Y goodbye”

[sour harness]

Customs (including mine) pretty much always have really major flaws that can't be fixed with the limited pool of characters we have

It's just not possible

To be clear, there can be good scripts. But good scripts can still have major flaws

[ebon idol]

The only script without major flaws is TB

[acoustic chasm]

I think customs are allowed to have 1 or 2 less than ideal interactions

[sour harness]

I'm okay with that take lol

[ebon idol]

It’s not my hot take I think it’s just true

[acoustic chasm]

In a similar vein to Hystrex

[sour harness]

Yes!! They are. Because there are no customs that can do better that that lol

[acoustic chasm]

I'd prefer if they didn't

But its something that we can accept

[sour harness]

This is why I write polyhybrids now (to those who don't know: taking homebrew characters from all over and combining them into a script)

[acoustic chasm]

Like I think Paradox's Ride the Cyclone is very close to a perfect script

Perfect custom script

Because I don't think I can name any characters or less than ideal interactions

[ebon idol]

hmm I’m trying to find the hot takes I haven’t shared before but actually want to share 🤣

[sour harness]

Somehow I haven't played rtc yet, I need to fix that

[acoustic chasm]

I've played it once

I'm pumped for poli version

[sour harness]

Ok looking at it once I do have my nitpicks but they're all pretty insignificant

It's stuff like knight/pm being bad for traceability

[acoustic chasm]

By that you mean?

I'm just thinking up hot takes right now which I didn't believe 5 minutes ago

Such as: outside of TB & poisoner scripts, day 1 round robin is likely a powerful, underused strategy

[dusty thistle]

I've made this hot take before, and I'll do it again: Every character in BOTC is well-designed.

[acoustic chasm]

Yeah calling every character "good" is meaningless

What do you mean by well designed

By every character, do you mean every released character?

[dusty thistle]

Yes

[acoustic chasm]

Mm

[ebon idol]

Win rate is an absolutely garbage stat to track, in the context of Clocktower it means so incredibly little, it is not a good metric to track for individual players or scripts or STs

I think the best use win rate has is finding out if you need to run faster days, which you should do anyways

[sour harness]

If a knight is puzzledrunk then the pm's info is of the same nature as the knight's, plus you just never kill the wrong ping. If an evil player is bluffing knight and doesn't give their pings, then if they get puzzle guessed then the ST can't give the same kind of info they'd give if they were good unites the evil player tells the ST their knight pings in advance... Which means that an outsider just called out a player on their bluff. Or, it means that real puzzledrunk knights get storytold in a way that's worse and trivializes puzzledrunkenness

[acoustic chasm]

I believe that's demonstrably false though.

[dusty thistle]

People often complain about things such as "Huntsman is too weak" and "Bounty Hunter feels like an outsider if they get poisoned too much", but in my opinion every character in BOTC fits its niche and does it well.

[dusty thistle]

Like I said, it's a hot take

[acoustic chasm]

I agree with your takes

But for example

Acrobat was a released character

[sour harness]

"huntsman too weak" is an inexperience thing imo

[karmic rose]

my hot take: getting rolled by the other team's skillful play is one of the best clocktower feelings

[acoustic chasm]

And TPI felt the need to completely change its character type and ability

[sour harness]

BH may be balanced but I just don't find it fun at all

[acoustic chasm]

If TPI truly believed all its characters are well designed, why so utterly rework one?

Or Alchemist

[ebon idol]

I don’t think all of them are well designed but I think the very large majority of them are well designed and those that are “badly designed” are in the minority

Also fwiw “they changed a character” is not a good argument about things not well designed because good design comes from iteration

It helps the argument honestly

[dusty thistle]

It was a fun character to play even then. When I usually mean "Poorly Designed", I mean it doesn't do its job or doesn't seem fun for anyone.

And it did its job, even if a little townsfolky

As for Alc, it's just a janky character

[sour harness]

I mean it didn't do its job of being an outsider

If it's townsfolky

[acoustic chasm]

My argument is that the designs from TPI are demonstrably not the best iteration of the design at the time

[karmic rose]

yeah, there are many characters that seem like they'd be fun once given proper context and support but are currently very difficult to make work

[ebon idol]

Now that’s true for sure

[sour harness]

And once again, we don't have that context at the moment

[acoustic chasm]

Maybe you can say "they were on the right track with the design!"

[ebon idol]

cough Steven medway’s twitter jinxes

[dusty thistle]

Ok you're right.

[acoustic chasm]

That is true

[dusty thistle]

There are a lot of characters that need redesigns after some issues

[acoustic chasm]

But that doesn't mean that TPI only prints gold

[dusty thistle]

But I feel like the concepts behind them work

[dusty thistle]

Oh, heavens no

[acoustic chasm]

Which is what "all these characters are well designed" can imply

[dusty thistle]

Golem for example is very swingy between townsfolk and outsider

[acoustic chasm]

Golem requires script building

[dusty thistle]

I'll amend it too: every character is at least decently designed

That is my opinion

[acoustic chasm]

A point I forgot is also what are these characters well designed for

Like Xaan is a great carousel character

Incredibly flexible

[karmic rose]

nah golem is the easiest character to script build for. toss it onto a leviathan script with Lycan and see what happens

[acoustic chasm]

Fearmonger is much more niche

Is seen on less scripts

[dusty thistle]

And Minstrel is nearly impossible to build outside of a BMR-like

[acoustic chasm]

Washerwoman would be incredibly strong if we didn't have Spy

I think its reasonable to say all the released TPI characters can have a script where it eats on

[cyan reef]

"well-designed" might be a difficult metric, but it's probably worthwhile context that experimental characters are definitionally unfinished...granted, at this point, they're pretty much near-complete so they're probably easier to judge now, but also characters rely on their home script (if applicable) and we're missing that for the relevant experimental characters

[dusty thistle]

True

[acoustic chasm]

Even old Acrobat

[dusty thistle]

Yep. And old Balloonist. You can build good script with both.

[acoustic chasm]

But that doesn't mean these characters are the best execution of what they're trying to do

See: Acrobat

[lost thistle]

my hot take is poppy grower is not fun to play with

[dusty thistle]

That is true

[dusty thistle]

I disagree, but I'm interested in finding out why you think that.

[acoustic chasm]

Golem on a fast death or boffin script works as an Outsider great

[lost thistle]

its absolutely miserable as an evil who doesn’t know their team

[dusty thistle]

See RtC, which is both.

[cyan reef]

to me a well-designed character, on a script for which it works (whether it works on one script or 100 scripts), would be things like: has options for how to play, can be bluffable if it's a good character, is well-balanced, etc

[lost thistle]

it might be well designed but it’s not fun for the evil team

[cyan reef]

it should be fun too obviously, though what is fun is highly subjective

[dusty thistle]

(it still works as Boomdandy diffusal).

[acoustic chasm]

I think if more people felt like this post games would be a lot more fun

[cyan reef]

way better than "The Storyteller made it unsolvable"

[lost thistle]

okay but sometimes they actually did that

[cyan reef]

https://tenor.com/view/gohine-hohino-no-hohineee-gohineee-gif-17792172174678204487

[vernal tiger]

mildly hot take: good is not owed a win in atheist games

[cyan reef]

"unsolvable" is such a meaningless term tbh

[dusty thistle]

If they f*** up they aren't.

[cyan reef]

especially for a game not meant to be "solved"

[lost thistle]

looking at you, boffin-puzzlemaster in snv+1 in a game where a pit hag fang gu jump happened

[vernal tiger]

also mildly hot take: good is not owed a solve in regular games either

in fact, if a game is solved, that’s actively bad

[cyan reef]

I don't think homebrew is going to make a particularly good case for "ST made it unsolvable" lol

[dusty thistle]

This take is somewhat cold

[dusty thistle]

This is not cold

[ebon idol]

I’ve given things similar to this in the past, but most people go onto SnV and BMR much too quickly, onto customs too quickly, onto complex customs too quickly, and onto scripts with wizard / atheist etc too quickly. Players and STs need to slow down, a lot of STs and players also lose perspective of the games difficulty to play, understand, and thrive in.

Additionally most people overestimate what characters (more specifically legion / atheist / wizard etc) they’re able to skillfully run, this includes a lot of you, and me. I don’t touch wizard for a reason

[dusty thistle]

I love getting solved as evil

[dusty thistle]

As someone who did this, I agree completely

[lost thistle]

hot take more people here in text games need to social read

cold take stop being so damn inactive in games say enough things to be social readable

[karmic rose]

my ideal endgame is one with 1-2 simple solutions where evil made the obvious plays and 1-2 weirder solutions where the demon killed a minion at night, the minion kept nominating the demon, etc.

and then losing to the weird solution is GREAT

[lost thistle]

is inactivity still a problem in text games i stopped playing for a while

[cyan reef]

Trouble Brewing is, IMO, the quintessentially BotC script, and most good games of TB come down to a few people knowing the correct world but needing to convince others, and, similarly, social reads

[dusty thistle]

It's sadly really hard to read someone over text. It's why as stick to in person and voice (it's still really hard in voice).

[lost thistle]

botc feels like it just…
doesnt work if a player is just sitting there barely saying anythign

[lost thistle]

i come from a forum mafia background so i beg to disagree, i think the bigger problem is that players tend to barely say anything

[ebon idol]

Looks like it’s not a hot take so I want to make it clear, when I say “most” and “lots” I directly means 85% of people in this thread are not ready to run stuff wizard legion atheist with full tact that they deserve

[valid garden]

One of my favourite games (mind you, it was homebrew) resulted in an evil loss, but they had set up such a great chekov's-gun play that felt so great to see the pay off, so winning/losing isn't the be all/end all

[cyan reef]

online Clocktower is always quite different than Clocktower as designed, and text Clocktower is a much, much bigger departure...they're all valid to play of course, but a lot of ideas just don't always translate well

[dusty thistle]

Ok, that's a problem

[lost thistle]

its hard to social read somebody when theres not much to read

[ebon idol]

Yeah no it’s not comparatively harder to read someone over text

[valid garden]

Imagine a day 1, public wizard wish that people forgot about until about day 4, then BAM

[ebon idol]

It’s easier if anything, you have weeks to sit with it

[lost thistle]

its a bit disheartening to learn that this server still has an inactivity problem in text games though :(

guess my extended break will continue

[next marlin]

alright, I guess time to post actually hot takes and hope I don't get derided like every other time this has come up:

1. I consistently, appreciably, by a massive margin always have much less fun in games I lose than win and I don't think this is especially rare nor that it is a personal failing on the part of people who experience it; this is a competitive game and people attracted to the competition play it
2. f3 is not a marker for an ideal game, nor is a game being balanced or tense such a marker
3. longtext socials are real, easier than shortform socials, and not seeing them reflects on the person who doesn't see them, not on the format
4. not everyone is going to like every mode of the game, and this includes not everyone is going to like a given one of the b3, and this includes not everyone is going to like tb after giving it a lot of chances from a lot of seats

[dusty thistle]

I guess, but I'd think it's harder if you don't have things like vocal intonation, body language, facial expressions, etc.

[grizzled marsh]

As someone that's not a fan of TB, i agree with take 4

[dusty thistle]

This is the hottest take in the thread.

[cyan reef]

even if one doesn't like Trouble Brewing (I take I'll never understand, but to each their own), it's still vitally important for learning the game

[lost thistle]

from my experience, social reading somebody is easier if they send a lot of messages, hard if they’re just kinda There

also hard if they’re somebody like Nexus i still don’t know how to read nexus

[grizzled marsh]

And while i'm here i kinda must do my true "hot take": Socials aren't real

[vernal tiger]

based

[cyan reef]

and the point that people tend to move on too fast tends to remain true

[dry sluice]

"Unsolvable" games aren't fun (for me). "Unsolvable" means a game where the info is such that there are a dozen worlds left and f3 is a social coin flip. The main reason I prefer STing to playing is to avoid getting stuck in an hour long game where my time was wasted because it's unsolvable.

[next marlin]

I generally feel this in shortform but playing more longform made social reading far easier

[tardy wyvern]

BMR is easier to ST than SNV

[ebon idol]

Social reads are not only about those things though, socials are derived from the natural imbalance of play between good and evil players, and the information and goal divide they have. Text allows you to sift through this very well

[lost thistle]

as long as you have a good understanding of how pukka works

[valid garden]

And pacifist

[tardy wyvern]

Pukka isn’t hard to run

[cyan reef]

it's a valid thing to feel, but I think it remains important to remember that the game is not meant to be "solvable"

[valid garden]

(And sailor)

[vernal tiger]

i will say that socials exist for some people, “reading good” is a skill

[tardy wyvern]

It’s like poisoner but it kills people

[dry sluice]

You are using a different meaning of "solvable"

[lost thistle]

pop quiz! how does pukka exorcist work

[vernal tiger]

you learn how to get good at socials over time

[valid garden]

I think there's a split here between people who play Clocktower qua Clocktower and those who play it after playing, say, mafia

[cyan reef]

yeah, the fact that people use the word "unsolvable" to mean completely different things I think just reinforces the point

[ebon idol]

Also my luke-warm take (because I think it’s objectively correct) is this BoTC is not a competitive game, that is something people add onto it from their own biases. It is designed, playtested, calibrated, advertised as, and is run by those who actually know the game primarily as a party game and an excellent vessel to hang out with people

[next marlin]

simple: nexus is evil
ez solve

[dry sluice]

Tell that to Melee players

[tardy wyvern]

Real pukka flow chart

1. Wake the pukka and make them pick someone
2. Place the poisoned token on the player they just picked
3. Replace the poison token other than the one you just put down with dead

Skip steps 1-2 if exorcised, skip steps 2-3 if they pick the goon

[ebon idol]

You can play it competitively, that’s fine, and there’s massive space for you. But it is not a competitive game at it’s core at all

[lost thistle]

@flat lintel sorry buddy

[next marlin]

I think this is a true statement regarding games that don't by their inherent nature have a single winning team and a single losing team

[ebon idol]

I personally find the idea of thinking of Clocktower as a strategic game vs a competitive one much more accurate, and also more true to the core idea of the game

[next marlin]

I am somewhere around the 0.1st percentile for "uses hobbies as a way to hang out with people" though

[cyan reef]

unfortunately this is an idea that I've had people take downright offense to

[grizzled marsh]

I mean sure, but when someone nominates someone early because "reads evil", it's something that they can't defend aganst, something that can't be felt by other players so you'd better be right (and good because nothing prevents anyone to use this accusation when evil). There are times where people clearly go against their bluffs, but "reads evil" shouldn't be a valid reason to nominate someone

[cyan reef]

shout out to the one person a few years ago who said they would report me to TPI 😆

[tardy wyvern]

for??

[dusty thistle]

Don't you work with TPI?

[lost thistle]

what are you nominating people for then on d1?

being a top 4?

[valid garden]

Clearly the defense here is OMGUS

[next marlin]

like, I get shocked when I remember this is a common human experience, so my perspective on botc comes very much through a lens of "being someone who apparently lacks a particular universal human experience", which is part of why I find participating in this question when it comes up uncomfortable (because a lot of the time it seems to resolve to a bunch of people taking shots at me when I say anything)

[cyan reef]

I've volunteered with them as a streamer in the past, I am not doing that currently

[valid garden]

That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence, and BotC is no exception

[cyan reef]

not sure if I was volunteering at the time

[lost thistle]

vague “they’re in an evil ping but i won’t say what”?

those have the same non-defendabilities

[karmic rose]

oh wait my other hot(?) take is that I love being the frame

it's so fun

[zenith lotus]

ikr

[cyan reef]

so far I've only had two people ever threaten to "report" me to TPI 😆

[ebon idol]

“Reads evil” is not a good accusation, “I talked to this player and they felt very cagey in a way that is unusual for them, and they pushed on someone in our whisper I believe to be good” is a good accusation

[dusty thistle]

I've never been the frame because I'm always either outed evil or dead by day 3

[dry sluice]

If "BoTC is not a competitive game" = "BoTC would not work at all in a tournament setting", then I agree. But otherwise idk what it's supposed to mean.

[ebon idol]

People say 1 but deep down mean 2

[next marlin]

as the line goes

[lost thistle]

yeah you gotta like explain

Why you think they’re evil

[next marlin]

To be fair in exactly Lepa's case they always mean "he acted like Lepa"

[grizzled marsh]

You rarely have any good leads D1 even with socials. And while socials aren't real, D1 socials especially aren't real

[lost thistle]

just saying “they read evil source: trust me” isnt a very good accusation

[karmic rose]

nah Lepa confirmed good trust

source: I said so

[vernal tiger]

i mean the real hot take in this thread is that socials are real, they do exist, and they win games

[tardy wyvern]

Tell that to the mez I recently called as being evil for being confused when I told them they were in a steward ping (they were in a noble ping)

[valid garden]

Someone I play with, I won't say who but they're a great player of this game, once told me "You're good, because when you're evil you play [the script] like [the script], and when you're good you play it like it's SnV"