secret thing

[hollow oasis]

I could’ve sworn livetext would play Gary cooper

[next marlin]

Once again making things up, just like the Occultist

[feral snow]

It all comes full circle

Just like the vaguely circular occultist icon

[hollow oasis]

Bruh

Ok apparently my refusal of acknowledging the prompt is actually making it better

[next marlin]

The old one had an actual circle in it

Oh wait I missaw the middle of the septagram as a circle

Never mind

[hollow oasis]

I love the barber swap

Who died

[feral snow]

That’s the beauty of shitposts. Refusing to interact or hating on it creates more jokes

[hollow oasis]

Which of course, is like the occultist, which refusing to believe it makes it an outsider.

[hollow oasis]

2/7 Make quadjank but riot,(and have Hystrex think it’s good)

[feral snow]

Riot and all Occultists

Stop avoiding my prompt

[ivory ridge]

who the fuck is shittymorph

[feral snow]

@ivory ridge

[ivory ridge]

why are you like this

[sour harness]

Tbh riot would be fine on quadjank if it wasn't a teensy

[ivory ridge]

quadjank can't be replicated

in full script

plain and simple

[hollow oasis]

No i meant just like riot script like quadjank

This also means no vizier

[sour harness]

Ohhh ok

Like levijank type of thing

[hollow oasis]

Yea

[ivory ridge]

double prompt today wow

good thing i don't want to answer either

[hollow oasis]

He said it early

[sour harness]

It can't, but there exists an equivalent full script

[hollow oasis]

Therefore it didn’t happen

[ivory ridge]

timezone issue

[sour harness]

Like, it's not the same, and it's not as """"tight"""", but it exists and keeps the vibe intact (besides game length)

[ivory ridge]

damn hystrex prefer tight

but anyway i feels like it's not the same 😔

[sour harness]

It's not

[tacit fiber]

is it on waltz

[sour harness]

Genuinely tho I do love seeing other people making jank

[sour harness]

Nah

ND is the only source of n1 droison :3

[feral snow]

I don’t really want to see people try and recreate quadjank because I know it’ll inevitably miss what makes quadjank work. It takes this core theme of “what if we just made the Demon invincible” and then gave the good team a bunch of ways to win anyways. It has way more nuance than most people realize, which is why other people’s Boffin-Atheist-Vizier script doesn’t work. I think you’ve captured lightning in a bottle with this script, and it’s one I ask about running all the time. The other thing with quadjank is that it’s insanely hard to run. Solid 2.5/5 to play, but I’d say a 4.5/5 to run. There’s so many complicated interactions to remember, so every day is full of weird bluffs and misinfo. Just like how the Occultist makes up information every day to avoid being executed, but can learn a fact once per game.

[ivory ridge]

is this a squallymorph post

[acoustic chasm]

...

[feral snow]

Is this what we’re calling them

[sour harness]

Squallymorph!!

Btw 99% of the difficulty in running quadjank is rules. There are very few ST decisions after setup

...which still puts it at 4.5

[feral snow]

I mean atheist is there

So like automatic 4/5

[ivory ridge]

btw squall unrelated but

wanna spec me in a text game 🥺

[feral snow]

Which one

[ivory ridge]

i wanna be a silly goober 👉 👈

[feral snow]

The fish bucket one?

[ivory ridge]

oui oui

[feral snow]

I already am

[ivory ridge]

ah

[ivory ridge]

wait

can you send the full quadjank

[sour harness]

The full script?

[ivory ridge]

the full ver of quadjank

[sour harness]

Atheist games are so much easier to run on this script only 😭

[acoustic chasm]

I'm not too sure about this secret thing prompt, because I usually see this place where we talk about BOTC. Its silly. We ship characters here. We talk about script building, and share opinions about characters. We give hot takes here. And this just kinda has none of that, it's just the same joke repeated over and over again. I also feel like talking about homebrew here is fun and alright, but it means that we are talking about characters we haven't even played with or even... run? I don't think that many of us have played with Occultist, an Outsider who is mad about learning something new every day, or is executed, but, once per game, actually learns something!

[manic sinew]

What's the original quadjank?

[sour harness]

Play with old alchemist (as shown)

[hollow oasis]

Man I just wanted a janky riot script

[warped fog]

Can we stop using Heretic with evil win conditions? I'm tired of seeing this Cool Script "Built Around Heretic" and staring in nothing but pure disbelief as I see it paired with Saint, Klutz and Damsel, and then further look down at the Minions section and see Mastermind, Evil Twin, Goblin and Fearmonger, on a solo Vortox script, as if any of these actually help evil when the script's Main Character™️ "Outsider" is in play. Yes, you convinced everyone to push through your bluff as Goblin and execute you, and then you have to sit there and have the Storyteller tell you you just lost your team the game because one specific "Outsider" happened to be in play. The Heretic is an Outsider because, without it, good can win at any time but evil can only win on the final day. This, of course, is completely defenestrated when every single character on the script has the sole purpose of making evil win far earlier than that, and this upside-down cross joins the ranks of old-Acrobat, Golem and Moonchild as 3 Townsfolk in a trenchcoat, as we're here once again holding as it were an OUTSIDER up to your OUTSIDER, as they cancel out and every Outsider on the script is suddenly a strong-as-fuck Townsfolk and every Minion becomes an Outsider to their own team. But I guess it's just something people do! And some people have the audacity to justify Heretic on these Geneva violations attempting to pass as "scripts" as just an Outsider that "wants to hide" much like a Damsel, Mutant, or even an Occultist, which must be mad about learning something new every day or be executed, learning a fact but once per game.

[tacit fiber]

honeslty

based from super

someone told me like

"heretic is a townsfolk because the demon will never kill themself"

and like

actually so true

[sour harness]

TRUE

Yeah I just don't like heretic with stuff like damsel or goblin lol

Mastermind and evil twin are much more okay

[warped fog]

"You & a good player know each other. If the good player is executed, good wins. Evil can't win while you both live."

mastermind's by far the best out of the 4 minions listed there though

[warped fog]

and this is why I really hope spec and spoilers is wrong about midnight

[sour harness]

please

[tacit fiber]

yeah

I once played a poppygrower game as a MHD "spec script"

and like

losing my 8 game evil winstrek

bc my minion who I didn't know correctly found the damsel on the block?

r u kidding me?

As an additional slap in the face

I was the Imp too

[sour harness]

Oh no

[tacit fiber]

there wasn't really a way evil could've won if I figured out it was heretic

[sour harness]

Something tells me imp isn't on MHD fortunately

Yeah I love damsel and goblin but can they not go with heretic pls

They're such cool dynamics and heretic holds them back so much

[ivory ridge]

controversial take damn

[cyan reef]

I'd be shocked if they don't end up on the same script

[sour harness]

I know

I know the vibe of the leaks

[ivory ridge]

i mean it's fine

mhd is not a functional script

[sour harness]

I just hope TPI changes their minds

[ivory ridge]

from what i've seen

and i'm tired of being silenced

[sour harness]

Yeah but I want it to be

[cyan reef]

I've heard otherwise

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[ivory ridge]

well then it won't be the mhd you know of

that's why i don't care differentiating between versions of mhd

[tacit fiber]

mm

I'm just

🙏

[karmic rose]

I'm really interested to see what Midnight turns out like. Ben Burns has mentioned enjoying it greatly on podcasts, and Steven Medway has said "if you hate your storyteller, and you want your storyteller's head to explode, then Midnight is a really fun script. The players love Midnight, but it's such a nightmare to run. Think of every janky custom script that has an Atheist and a Heretic and four Boomdandys and [trails off into laughter]... and it's like that, all the time." This was on the Script Notes podcast, where lots of fun teasers for future scripts happen and lots of characters are discussed. Among the script writing discussed is the role of madness, and how madness roles enhance the game, like the Occultist, which must be mad about learning something new every day or be executed but actually learns something once per game!

[tacit fiber]

beliveing

that they don't mega undercook it

[ivory ridge]

right but it's ben

[karmic rose]

the Steve quote is real btw this is the real occultist fact

[ivory ridge]

i'm sorry whenever ben come up i remember "one fish, two fish"

😭

[sour harness]

On so waltz is midnight /j

[acoustic chasm]

i need to stop being a gremlin

i am going too far

[cyan reef]

I suspect MHD is a perfectly workable script, but is also, somewhat by design, not going to be for everyone

you gotta like a certain type of game, and many won't like that certain type of game

[ivory ridge]

i mean

im pretty sure that mhd is a functional script

maybe even good

but the question is idk what is the mhd steven is talking about

[sour harness]

I mean yeah it's absolutely not for everyone

[acoustic chasm]

yea

[sour harness]

But the concept seems very much like it is for me, except when I look at what we "know" is on it

[tacit fiber]

honestly same here

[manic sinew]

Sounds like you were pretty mad
Like a certain outsider...

[sour harness]

HMMMMM

[feral snow]

That’s patters

[ivory ridge]

no way

[foggy grotto]

"Pride and Prejudice" by Jane Austen is an egregious exemplar of literary insipidity. The characters are woefully deprived of complexity, with Elizabeth Bennet embodying a lamentable lack of depth, and Mr. Darcy proving to be an embodiment of stupefying predictability. The narrative trajectory aimlessly meanders through the pedestrian concerns of the Bennet family, fixated on the tedious details of societal status and matrimonial prospects, offering little by way of intellectual nourishment, a successful example of which would be the Occultist, who is mad that they learn something new every day, or they might be executed, but once per game, learn a fact.

not BotC related but i love this copypasta too much

[feral snow]

It’s a really good take

[ivory ridge]

I can't take it anymore. I'm sick of Occultist. I try to put Mutant. The Occultist gets more attention. I try to play Politician. The Occultist gets more attention. I try to play Damsel. The Occultist gets more attention. I want to play Cerenovus. Her best script has Occultist. I want to play Pixie, Harpy. They both want Occultist.

She grabs me by the throat. I garden for her. I set bags for her. I give her Sentinel. She aren't satisfied. I pull Bootlegger. "I don't need this much theorycraft" She tells me. "Give me more bag time." She grabs Mutant and forces him to exe himself off madness break. "You just need to bluff me more. I can gets more attention with scheduled games."

I can't set for scheduled games, I don't have enough thanks. She grabs my discord profile. It declines. "Guess this is the end." She grabs Vati. She says "Vati, get them." There is no hint of sadness in his eyes. Nothing but pure, no madness break execution. What a cruel world.

[sharp violet]

I was working on that one! You stole it! Now I have to make a new one! Hang on… this feels familiar. Kind of like the Occultist, who has to make up a new piece of info each day to be mad about learning or they might be executed, but once per game, actually learns something - just like I actually made this!

[barren zenith]

Currently in a text game of Word Around Town, which is an absolute blast! I'd highly recommend this script if you are looking for one to run.

[acoustic chasm]

Can conifrm

[tacit fiber]

this feels like a reference to smth

what is it? /curious

[ivory ridge]

genshin

[barren zenith]

Do you have to have thanks to make a scheduled game?

[sour harness]

nah you can just do it

[fast anchor]

Insane reference

[tacit fiber]

Sentinel Strikes Back I heard was rly good and can have both a normal and chaotic game depending on what the players want

[barren zenith]

I've also heard that this script can have chaotic or normal gameplay today. Which reminds me: I've learnt something new now, just like the occultist who must be mad about learning something new every day or risk execution. They may also go to the storyteller to learn a fact once per game.

[fast anchor]

a showman has died

[sour harness]

👏

[barren zenith]

Wdym?

[fast anchor]

we're just doing a lot of clapping is all

[feral snow]

I’ve just been doing 👏 on every one of the responses to my question

[sharp violet]

well don't forget that if you applaud for someone that's not the showman, you might still die at any time

[feral snow]

We all show men

[fast anchor]

show men what

[barren zenith]

Ohhhh, makes sense

I don't dabble in homebrew

I like FoR tho

[karmic rose]

😳

[sour harness]

This is literally the definition of dabbling in homebrew

[barren zenith]

Yeah

I dabble slightly

[warped fog]

insert that one image of obama giving himself an award

[sour harness]

Also I just found this

[foggy grotto]

i thought this was real for a sec 😔

[sour harness]

It should be

[hollow oasis]

Evil twin heretic is actively broken

RAW

[sour harness]

heretic applies after the game ends

[tacit fiber]

so then...

a minion and outsider come together

to make evil not being to win until they solve the twins for the good team

[hollow oasis]

I love the demon killing themselves and the game continuing

Makes so much sense

[tacit fiber]

base script interaction

[hollow oasis]

(In a heretic game)

[hollow oasis]

You jumped on it without the context 💀

[tacit fiber]

oh I knew the context

I was also meming

[hollow oasis]

But also evil twin should be a safety net for self kills from heretic paranoia

[ivory ridge]

[australia isn't real, 5202\8\2]: we just got a new winrate drop from tpi, this time it's vizier with 34%, also known as "the character with the lowest winrate"! so I want to open some discussion about vizier as a character to see general opinion here.
here's some question (as guide to the topic):
do you personally consider vizier weak? why? is having a vizier on your team worse than a generic evil?
what script do you think vizier excels in? are there any condition/limitation that is needed for this character when it come to script/bag building?
in general, what's your opinion on outed evil? is there anything differentiating vizier from psycho & goblin?
if you could rework vizier, how would you do it?

[hollow oasis]

Ooh so this is why mizu doesn't secret thing often

this is fire

[coarse fern]

Golem > Vizier I don’t wanna answer the questions

[hollow oasis]

Vizier is Legion but bad

[next marlin]

Vizier is inherently weak because "evil role that punishes town for voting on things" is a problem of a design space -- you land at either Legion (notoriously oppressive) or Vizier (notoriously weak)

[hollow oasis]

Leviathan?

[next marlin]

Levi is a timer demon which is a whole other design cluster

[hollow oasis]

it does punish you for voting on things

to a lesser extent, riot

[next marlin]

Timer demons have to go for "if the demon can't kill people who can identify them, how do we stop town from just trivially killing through demon candidates"

Levi does this directly through executions, a lot of homebrew timer demons are misinfo demons

[hollow oasis]

yep

Vizier is a weak minion unless it's actually oppressive

[next marlin]

Vizier is worse than a generic minion (imo) because outed evil just locks down worldbuilding so brutally

[hollow oasis]

Basically:Leviathan

Or:Vizier being outed evil but importantly not outed vizier

[next marlin]

I'd rather have a witch generic minion than a vizier just because the witch generic minion is a true evil voice and vote in a way vizier has to kind of step around being

Hell an actual blank minion token is probably a pretty strong minion all things considered

[hollow oasis]

you mean xaan 0

[next marlin]

Because it lets you do the baron strat of just detaching yourself from worldly concerns and seeing what strategy works no matter what

[next marlin]

In a base 0 yeah

[coarse fern]

Or self poisoning widow

Like that’s a thing for a reason lol

[hollow oasis]

ok self poisoning widow sees grim

but is effectively a blank token because they forgor

[next marlin]

which is, notoriously, weaker than the minion balance point

especially when it's only n1

...but yeah I'd still rather be on a team with a self-poisoning widow than a vizier lmao

[hollow oasis]

Basically

Vizier is bad because they are not a demon candidate,and their ability is weak

[next marlin]

More than that

It's bad because it can't sell worlds

Every non-outed minion and many semi-outed minions can sell worlds

[hollow oasis]

I'm referring to the "outed evil" category

[next marlin]

Evil Twin is semi-outed but twins win games off the worlds they push

[hollow oasis]

specifically goblin/vizier/psychopath

[next marlin]

(ET is prob my favourite of the outed-spectrum minions)

Goblin is sort of another axis but it's harder to describe well

[hollow oasis]

Goblin is good because even though you're outed evil, you still are a demon candidate and if they think you are, you WIN

[next marlin]

But yeah between that three goblin benefits from demon candidacy and psycho from...well, psycho is still a bit of a thrall, but damn can it get kills

[hollow oasis]

Psycho is good because you can just, delete people you don't want alive WITHOUT Needing someone to make a mistake, you JUST DO IT

and also

you don't have to be outed instantly

and there's no f3 clause

but that's not a benefit

Vizier takes Psycho, and adds a punishing clause

which does not help them

It's a downgrade

How to Make Vizier good:

Be quadjank

Be a levi script

[next marlin]

Quadjank is questionably 'good'

[hollow oasis]

hey I just said it makes vizier good

I'm not saying it's "good"

If vizier is effectively a goblin or is on par or better with psycho, it's strong enough

[next marlin]

I think vizier is conceptually flawed but it also lets you do really campy outed evil suff which some people love

[hollow oasis]

vizier really shouldn't need to be outed evil imo

It's funny exe survival and can bluff Lleech lmao, like cmon

there's gold in them script ideas

[gray ridge]

where can I see the winrate thing

[ivory ridge]

smooth talk a tpi member into leaking it

[hollow oasis]

here:

but TPI won't release win rates

Ideas for reworking vizier:

*role vizier

[low burrow]

Vizier (Minion) - Experimental

All players know you are the Vizier. You cannot die during the day. If good voted, you may choose to execute immediately.

**Affects Setup: **False

[hollow oasis]

All players know you are the Vizier. You cannot die during the day until you execute someone with no good votes on them. When a player is nominated, you may choose to execute immediately.

Le mustache twirl ensues.

Alternatively: You cannot die during the day. If good voted, you may choose to execute immediately.

@ivory ridge I fixed it

I fixed vizier

[ivory ridge]

huh?

[hollow oasis]

the first one

You no longer need to care about good votes

but, you can die

sure it breaks vigormortis but ignore that

[dry sluice]

Outed evils roughly cannot contribute to the game by talking. I know you should talk to them to be nice, but unfortunately, there's no reason to take anything they say into account when worldbuilding. Maybe a certain kind of person would enjoy that. Actually, I want to find out: is Psychopath fun for my friends who usually dislike BoTC because they don't like lying games?

[honest tide]

Vizier is odd because it is both an outed evil and something that gives town info. Especially if only one or two players vote. The best places I’ve seen vizier are as an alchemist and in vigor games where it surprise wins in final 3

[honest tide]

I like this a lot actually

[feral snow]

I love the Vizier as the concept, because I absolutely hate playing outed evil normally. But if I’m going into a Vizier game, I know that I’m gonna exist to cause chaos and it’ll be glorious. I wish the Vizier worked better, and with all due respect, I feel like a lot of these reworks either don’t address the main issues or take away what makes the Vizier the Vizier. By design, the Vizier is a Minion that every single person knows, and the reason it’s so bad is that its ability (and other abilities that public evils benefit from) are very easy to unbalance. I’d rather it be too weak than too strong. That being said, I wish it just had a little more. Every time you use your ability to execute someone, you’re telling the group that (1) evil benefits from this execution, and (2) good voted. This is devastating information, and the Vizier gives this out every single day. It’s like how the Occultist makes up information every day, but can learn one actual fact.

[hollow oasis]

Lmao

[feral snow]

The rest of it is all true

[hollow oasis]

Ok I’m trying to think of vizier buffs

[gray ridge]

Each night, choose a player: if they are nominated by another good player, they are executed immediatly

Homebrew vizier 🔥

Could be cool ig but not for the vizier

[hollow oasis]

Better witch

[gray ridge]

They could remove the announcement so the vizier can try being trusted by town and save the ability for late game, kinda like hidden psycho

[hollow oasis]

The vizier can also die

All players know you are the Vizier. You can’t die, until you execute someone with no good votes on them. When a player is nominated, you may choose to execute immediately. If you are nominated, you die.

[gray ridge]

Or make the announcement generic like levi

Would produce a similar effect to legion on the script/fm announcement

[hollow oasis]

Ok but fearmonger also sucks

[feral snow]

All players know you are the Vizier. You may execute nominees. You can’t die until you execute a player for whom good did not vote.

131

I can get that shorter

[tacit fiber]

Vizier can just slam themselves in final 3

good doesn’t really have counter play

[feral snow]

I was adapting this

[gray ridge]

Mostly cuz most of its power comes from the announcement

*role fearmonger

[low burrow]

Fearmonger (Minion) - Experimental

Each night, choose a player. If you nominate & execute them, their team loses. All players know if you choose a new player.

**Affects Setup: **False

[gray ridge]

If you nominate -> if an evil nominates maybe

[hollow oasis]

There’s one minor problem

Evil can exe lock

All players know you are the Vizier. You may execute nominees. You can’t die until you execute a player for whom good did not vote. If nominated, you die.

[feral snow]

Ah

Right

That works

[sour harness]

Wait is there more to the winrate drop or just viz

[ivory ridge]

old riot is also 34%

but that's it

[sour harness]

Also yeah viz sucks because in most metas and environments it doesn't really have a voice

Oh ok

That's cool tho

[sour harness]

And the ability is... okay

[ivory ridge]

people here need to know about point-evidence-explanation

[sour harness]

TPI should really be considering vizier on its home script though, people keep putting it on customs and it really just doesn't work there

[feral snow]

I imagine they are

[sour harness]

:sotrue:

[sour harness]

Quadjank

[feral snow]

And if it has a home script it works perfectly fine there already

cough cough POPPY GROWER cough

[sour harness]

That is NOT a good interaction 😭

Like I get it

But no

[feral snow]

I didn’t say pg vizier

[sour harness]

Oh

[feral snow]

I meant pg works fine on its home script so people can stop whining about it dying poisoned

If its home script has no way for it to die poisoned

Or something like Puzzlemaster where it’s always droisoned from the start

I could write a whole sqwall of text about how poppy grower is fine as is

[sour harness]

Right but consider that I think the ability itself is really poor design

[feral snow]

Oh sure I won’t deny that

[sour harness]

Lol ok

[feral snow]

You can hate the concept that’s totally valid

Where I take issue is when people want a rework specifically to fix the poison issue

When it won’t be an issue on its home script

[sour harness]

-# I want that reworked because I don't want it to have a home script

[feral snow]

I trust TPI to make it work when it needs to

[cold veldt]

idk I’d still like to put it on custom scripts which may also include droison on them :/

[feral snow]

That’s fair

100% not their design focus when they were making it though (yes I know that has changed)

[cold veldt]

me wanting droison proofing on poppy grower is 0% me thinking it’s gonna be a home script issue and 100% me wanting to be able to take bootlegger off of my script lol

[minor pier]

droison is a very major part of the game, droison proofing roles as much as possible is only sensible

They managed it somewhat for Lleech, maybe they'll come up with something for PG

[feral snow]

Oh boy wall of text time

[karmic rose]

yessssss

[ivory ridge]

vizier is bad because innkeeper become poisoner

[gusty bear]

im pretty sure the prompt was "vizier tangent" today?

[feral snow]

Already wrote one

[ivory ridge]

write another

[karmic rose]

This makes me wonder... which character from BMR, if removed from its home ecosystem, would struggle the most? And would it feel as oppressively strong/weak as something like PG/Vizier?

[ivory ridge]

no one

[karmic rose]

like, imagine a world where the tomb existed and BMR didn't outside of a few experimental characters

[ivory ridge]

not even poisoner on snv could managed to crack out a 100-34 = 66% wr i fear

[feral snow]

So my issue with PG reworking is that there’s no reason for the ability text to account for droison if there isn’t any on that home script. If that script is anything like what I imagine it to be, it won’t have a way for the Poppy Grower dying while poisoned to be a realistic problem (or if it does, it’s evil’s deliberate choice/own fault). Imagine if the Soldier ability said “The Demon can’t kill you, poison you, turn you evil, or make you mad.” It would be insane to write all that when the Demon on TB can only kill and just make new players ask a bunch of questions like “wait how could the Demon poison me?” Abilities and almanacs are written in the context of the script they’re on (yes Soldier and Monk have the little blurb explaining how safe affects things, but that’s because Safe is a bad key word), so there’s no reason to account for issues that won’t happen on that script. The only reason Assassin/Goon isn’t a jinx is because they share a script. If there’s moving droison somehow, this will be what happens (the same way Cannibal has that jinx).

What I’m trying to get at is that whining about Poppy Grower not having a clause about poison makes no sense unless there’s specifically poison to worry about. They will not change that ability unless they need to, partially because they’re done changing characters, and partially because there is no need to. While they have clarified that they want new characters to work well in script building, this isn’t true of older characters like PG. If there is droison on its home script, it will likely be static poisoning like Puzzlemaster where the pg is droisoned each and every day, just like how the Occultist must be mad about something new each and every day.

[karmic rose]

Remove every BMR character from the world except minstrel and watch people script build

[ivory ridge]

one more occultist mentions and i'm coming over to your house

[feral snow]

Minstrel and courtier struggle a lot outside of bmr

[ivory ridge]

🔪

[feral snow]

They’re just too strong usually

[ivory ridge]

this is a threat

[karmic rose]

Yeah, and conversely I wonder what mastermind's win rate is in non-BMR ecosystems... it can't be great

[feral snow]

I’m not at the house you know

And I’m going out for the day anyways

[feral snow]

Ooh good one

It’s probably too obvious on a lot of customs

[ivory ridge]

the other one

i'm camping outside 🔥

[feral snow]

You don’t know where that is lol

[ivory ridge]

you just think that

[feral snow]

If you happen to be at the biggest mall nearby maybe you’ll see me

[karmic rose]

right yeah it basically needs reasons for double-tapping to be dangerous to town

[feral snow]

Zombuul helps with that kind of

[karmic rose]

as does po!

[feral snow]

Ooh good point

[karmic rose]

it's really only BMR where there's enough death variability for town to fear 6+ could be the final day

If BMR was a script in development instead of TT, and Minstrel/Courtier/MM were all released as experimentals, I think we'd be having the same discussion around them and how they're wacky

[feral snow]

Oh for sure

[cold veldt]

I will say that TB is a beginner script. PG’s home script probably won’t be. I still understand the points though. However I’m also pretty sure that TPI isn’t necessarily done changing characters, I’m pretty sure it’s still open for there to be changes once the expansions drop. I also don’t really see why older experimental characters should be exempt from being changed for more versatile scriptbuilding when they’re like still experimental and stuff

[foggy grotto]

you’re in luck, this already happens with inexperienced script builders!

if i see minstrel or exorcist on another custom where it does not work i will cry

[cold veldt]

shit did it really take me 20 minutes to type up this response

what am I even doing I don’t care THAT much

[feral snow]

TPI has confirmed no more ability text changes are coming until the expansions drop (if at all), and at that point it’s no longer experimental

[barren zenith]

Instead of "when you die", perhaps "when you lose this ability" could be a good change?

Idk, it's just so janky

[feral snow]

Yeah it’s janky with things like poisoner now

Which defeats the issue

(Even if drunk or poisoned) is realistically the fix everyone wants, and I support that in theory, but again if it’s not on the home script they aren’t gonna tack on something unnecessary

[sour harness]

So the thing about tangents is that while they have a tendency to derail the conversation, they're also an important part of discussion. Exploring new territories is how we can grow as a community & as a body of knowledge, and tangents are actually great at that. Plus, we can always just get back to the prompt later. It's really nice that we have a prompt almost every day, because then we can learn something new every day, unlike the occultist, who only learns something once but is mad that they learned something new every day

[gusty bear]

oh my god i didn't realise that one was coming

[ivory ridge]

the moment i read 'new' i was like 'ah'

[hollow oasis]

No one likes MM/uses it on customs

unless they are literally BMR

[karmic rose]

exactly!

[hollow oasis]

and like

it's still only used 5% of the time

[sour harness]

Or mm engine

[hollow oasis]

MM engineer?

[hollow oasis]

vortox sucks with MM

[sour harness]

Add or similar for a cooler effect

[sour harness]

No??

[hollow oasis]

you double tap

[sour harness]

But lleech

[hollow oasis]

bam literally did nothing

lleech is cool

[cold veldt]

if you executed the lleech host you can't double tap

[hollow oasis]

That was referring to vortox

lleech is fair

[cold veldt]

the engine refers to the three of them

as a package deal

lleech makes double-tapping on a mastermind day a risk, vortox sinking makes sleeping on a mastermind day a risk, it's a cool trio

[lean isle]

Yep, there are scripts that uses three of them and it creates great paranoia

[cold veldt]

i've got a script of my own all about the trio
#1334875224046567565 message

[zenith lotus]

where's the prompt for today

[lucid crag]

This is why the investigator seeing vizier is nice

[barren zenith]

I can make one rq

[lucid crag]

2/8 Can you make a prompt better than Dylans?

[hollow oasis]

The Prompt Prompt

[supple dirge]

Yes, I just don't want to right now

[barren zenith]

[8/2] Answer this question before revealing the spoiler:
What is your least favourite character (must be different to everyone else's answers) to script build with?
||Now build a script with it lol||

[lucid crag]

[hollow oasis]

Oh god Poisoner

[barren zenith]

(I know a similar style question has been done before, but I thought it was fun)

[supple dirge]

[barren zenith]

Definitely, that guy has no clue what he's doing when it comes to making up prompts.

[next vault]

||Shabaloth||

[sour harness]

||aw now I gotta build a steward script||

[cloud plover]

All of them. I'm bad at scriptbuilding 😎

[manic sinew]

Me too

[dry sluice]

The worst character ||cult leader|| deserves the worst teensyville script possible ||["cultleader","slayer","alsaahir","fisherman","banshee","philosopher","bountyhunter","heretic","ogre","mezepheles","marionette","imp","lordoftyphon"]||

[ivory ridge]

@zenith lotus this is the prompt

[fast anchor]

oh hey i already did one

||I was gonna edit this for the f3con contest but decided to iterate on a Goon script instead||

||I still like the central concept of "you can hag yourself into the BH to find your evil team in a poppy game" but it's difficult||

[gusty bear]

[shrewd cloud]

Would have originally been Minstrel or Engineer but those got taken so uhhhh

Zombuul

[tacit fiber]

BECUASE IT SUCKS

GRRRR

[next vault]

I think HP is very hard to run

Without confirming a player each day

[sharp violet]

||I don't script build, so I have no answer.||

[coarse fern]

Ok wtf

I’ll pass

Hey look I already have one

[acoustic chasm]

Vizier likely

ah a blunder

[foggy grotto]

no

i hate organ grinder so much i refuse out of principle

[next vault]

*json

[coarse fern]

It’s !

[next vault]

oh ok

[next vault]

!json

[flat cradle]

Something went wrong.

[next vault]

💀

[tardy wyvern]

the fabled 5 demon script

[coarse fern]

5/7/2/11

I swapped that

11/2/7/5

[karmic rose]

[lucid crag]

note: shugenja is here exclusively for the script name

[ivory ridge]

hatter 😭

[foggy grotto]

knight makes me sad here

[rare plume]

why does a script named Gung Fu Panda not have Po on it?

[foggy grotto]

2/9

you draw the Ojo token in a whalebucket game, you learn your minions but don’t manage to talk to a single person somehow, what are you picking on N2

[barren zenith]

Did I learn my minions?

[foggy grotto]

oh good point

let’s say yes, no poppy grower no magician

[barren zenith]

Empath then

[fresh shard]

Atheist, let the ST chaos commence

[sour harness]

No other announcements right? No king no luna?

Plague doctor. Let's cause chaos

[shrewd cloud]

Sage. Time to gamble hard

Either a “Fuck yeah we balling” when the ST kills someone super useful or a “Oh shit” moment when the Sage tells everyone their pings in the morning

[fast anchor]

One of my bluffs and ask the ST to pretty please doublekill so I can bluff Gossip

[manic sinew]

Which ones whalebucket?

[karmic rose]

all b3 and experimental roles

[manic sinew]

Oh

[coarse fern]

Golem. It’s too powerful to be left alive

[lucid crag]

ojo

/j

[foggy grotto]

genius

[coarse fern]

The famous ojo starpass

[lucid crag]

I'd pick heretic

[vale oxide]

Philo because STs love putting it in

[tardy wyvern]

why kill a bluff when you can kill legion

[fast anchor]

I don't know what the Pit-Hag has done

[next marlin]

"not changed you out of ojo", apparently

[ivory ridge]

hatter

[tardy wyvern]

“you are the pit hag in a whale bucket game, you do not know the demon type, what do you do first” is another interesting question

[ivory ridge]

im taking this in the context of fishbucket btw

[foggy grotto]

ngl thats a good choice

[ivory ridge]

i don't know or care enough about homebrew characters i'm ngl

[fast anchor]

find someone claiming a strong role and turn them into legion

[next marlin]

whalebucket isn't homebrew you're thinking of omnibucket

[ivory ridge]

wait what's whalebucket then

[next marlin]

all released roles

[tardy wyvern]

fishbucket is all base 3

[fast anchor]

fishbucket = b3
whalebufcket = b3 + experimental

ultrafishbucket = nonsense

[tacit fiber]

*omnibucket without script

[ivory ridge]

wtf my fishbucket longtext rn is actually whalebucket

[zenith lotus]

fishbucket is all released characters and whalebucket is nonsense truthers

[fast anchor]

this is incorrect. UFB has more homebrews

and also doesn't have a script

[tacit fiber]

this is fair

[fast anchor]

omnibucket won't let me play as the Tree from oh god oh no so it is really any good? I thought not

[foggy grotto]

i was brought up in a loving household with strong family values and we learned that fishbucket is b3 and whalebucket is all official characters and that's how I'll say it damn it!

[tacit fiber]

:(

grr I want my kinda balanced format to be put here

(I do believe its kinda balanced)

[ivory ridge]

if ur raised up in a loving household, why would you play botc in the first place

[next marlin]

Because I abandoned them to go become a demon cultist

[tardy wyvern]

I was raised in a loving household. We then played BOTC and stopped being a loving household

[hollow oasis]

??????

I’m in a loving household

[ivory ridge]

i love your perspective

[hollow oasis]

Lmao ok

[manic sinew]

Horrible internet influence

[hollow oasis]

Hey!

[sharp violet]

that can cause arbitrary kills, I say turn them into one of the following you know is not in play:
any outsider excluding Damsel and Heretic
Magician
Marionette
Baron

I would choose Snitch so you have free bluffs because clearly you have not received them from the Demon yet

ooh Mez is fun if you can convince the ST to give them a semi-common word

[fresh shard]

Good Mez can't actually communicate the word without turning themselves

[gusty bear]

That entirely depends how good you are at charades

[dense hound]

good opportunity to make the word mezepheles

"I'm the good minion that turns someone evil"
"The mezepheles?"
"NOOO"

[karmic rose]

2/10: someone suggests a custom script for your regular group. you skim it and retain only a single role. which character makes you most excited to play that custom?

[sour harness]

Might be legion tbh

[karmic rose]

i want to play more damsel and/or cerenovus with my group

[zenith lotus]

VI

[feral snow]

Heretic

My group never tries anything remotely scary lol

[dry sluice]

a m n e s i a c
Unfortunately, it doesn't fit on just any random script

[barren zenith]

GOBLIN

[fast anchor]

Poppygrower

either that or Cerenovus

[supple dirge]

I'll say al-had. I always loving storytelling the announcements

[feral snow]

ooh good answer

[supple dirge]

https://tenor.com/view/steve-harvey-face-palm-family-feud-good-answer-excited-gif-11822488

[manic sinew]

Riot maybe it looks neat

[honest tide]

High Priestess for me I think

[coarse fern]

GOLEM

[alpine silo]

vizier

[hollow oasis]

Ok so definitely not legion

Vortox

[tacit fiber]

Wizard in my irl is fucking amazing

[austere steppe]

These answers have me shook. Cere all daaaaay.

[sharp violet]

Cerenovus for me too

[next marlin]

Pithag

Let me cook

(then I roll chef or something and lose to op pithag)

[fast anchor]

relevant

[next marlin]

[fast anchor]

wait what does ph do in catfishing anyway outside of slow baron and demon mobility

you have evil dreamer/philo/sc/sweetheart but like

come tf on

that's ph 101

[acoustic chasm]

come townsfolk on?

[next marlin]

how are we defining 'slow baron' because you can do really funny stuff with the catfishing outsiders

1. usual pithag-drunk shenanigans
2. lunatic snakecharm
3. fake fang gu jump
4. multiple recluses

[fast anchor]

invisible drunk is kinda funny but not novel imo

and ph lunatic is like. yeah you can do that

[next marlin]

also all the dark triad demons are particularly funny to make good versions of because any variant where they attempt to stay alive or selfkill is likely to end up negative utility for town

and you can possibly end with 3 evil demons

[acoustic chasm]

what are other triads of demons

which work

[fast anchor]

like in general or

[acoustic chasm]

yea

[fast anchor]

po/vig/leviathan 🤩

[acoustic chasm]

erm

...

[next marlin]

rochambeau is not a script genre

[fast anchor]

awwww

is nd/vortox/quirky third demon (ojo/po/vig) a script genre

[next marlin]

well until I figure out how to actualize the rochambeaulike I saw in a dream

[acoustic chasm]

oo

[fast anchor]

bitter end is nd ojo vortox
this here vizier 🤮 is nd po vortox
cruel angel's thesis is not a good script but is nd vig vortox

[acoustic chasm]

mm

Yagg/Typhon/XYZ is the shop triad

Ooo

Wait wait

[next marlin]

actually yeah I think it might be

[acoustic chasm]

Is

[manic sinew]

The prophecy must be fulfilled

[acoustic chasm]

Ok it's a script I've made

But is

Lleech/Pukka/??? a genre?

[fast anchor]

miss register is pukka lleech po but idk any others

and po was my own innovation

(inspired by church of spies which is pukka nd po which is not quite the same)

[acoustic chasm]

could this work?

[fast anchor]

lm/yag/typhon is babytalkcore

[fast anchor]

be careful with what minions you put on but looks baller

[karmic rose]

LM/yag/Typhon is great

[acoustic chasm]

Yea LM/yagg/typhon sounds cool

[fast anchor]

i made a lm/yag/typhon script and then dropped it because it was babytalk 2

[next marlin]

I'm trying to make a 4 demon variant work (scheduled tomorrow!!!)

[fast anchor]

it was kinda good tbf

[next marlin]

I suspect pukka might just die horribly but

[fast anchor]

me when 0 death night outs demon type

[next marlin]

(I guess I should probably have more death mod than Amnesiac and Wizard)

[cold veldt]

as it should

[next marlin]

Amnesiac 😎

[acoustic chasm]

lemme figure out another triad

oh

[cold veldt]

did you know that pukka is just barely beating lleech in botc-scripts statistics? it’s an outrage imo

[acoustic chasm]

oh

oh

[fast anchor]

more pukka scripts!

[acoustic chasm]

Vortox/Legion/????????

[next marlin]

Wait really? I see a lot more lleeches

[fast anchor]

not a triad

[next marlin]

Maybe lleech keeps getting taken off the scripts after it immediately hosts the nightwatchman and dies

[cold veldt]

it’s VERY close like pukka is just 3 or so ahead rn

[fast anchor]

those two just tend to pair well together

[acoustic chasm]

i see

[fast anchor]

poppyganda and roundabout are vig/vortox/legion but the former has imp and the latter lm so it's not quite the same

and then poppyganda dropped the vig for some fucking reason

because the script author likes making the script worse for fun????

[acoustic chasm]

Ik its not a demon

But Summoner/Yagg is cool

I love teh look of Grimm Chorus

[next marlin]

Who doesn't

[fast anchor]

lleech/vortox/mastermind is a demon triad if you pretend mastermind is a demon

[karmic rose]

how's ojo/zombuul/pukka as "three demons I want to make work better"

[acoustic chasm]

pfff

Oh of course

[karmic rose]

put them in with a weaksauce town and you're gaming

[fast anchor]

ooo i kinda want to make a script with those three

[acoustic chasm]

I know its not a true triad because its not on many scripts

But

Lleech/Vortox/Po

Is such a neat one

[tepid shard]

I have LM/ND/Lleech on one of my scripts

Which don't really feel natural together tbh

But the script works and gets really good reviews, so eh

[fast anchor]

i've only seen it on minuit

[acoustic chasm]

yea

i just see it as an example of demons working together so well and neatly

(with mastermind of course)

[karmic rose]

I vibe with it

who wants to run/play with this lmao

[fast anchor]

this script probably has like 10000 things wrong with it

but i made it in like 3 minutes

so fuck you

[feral snow]

this is better than like 90% of custom scripts i see

[fast anchor]

yea because i don't make 90% of the customs you see 😇

[gray ridge]

I would play this..

Has organ grinder

[next marlin]

#livetext-event-listings message

[foggy grotto]

Lil Monsta / Imp / Lord of Typhon (no there's no bias here wdym)

[gray ridge]

Riot / Alhad / Zombuul (unpopular demons)

[foggy grotto]

riot and alhad are great

[tardy wyvern]

al-had is awesome

[honest tide]

Imp/Fang Gu/LM

The jumping trio

[sour harness]

Zombuul is great

[fast anchor]

@hollow oasis im at chipotle and am ordering something that isn't just rice

[sour harness]

Kenoboi aren't you like top 1 BMR fan

[foggy grotto]

yes but i thought we’re talking about in customs

since you’re saying this whole triad thing

zombuul is fine in BMR

i still don’t love it as a concept but i understand it needs to exist in BMR for that edition to work

outside of BMR it’s

bad

[fast anchor]

this guy hasn't played lunar eclipse or blossoms of pomegranate

[foggy grotto]

i have played lunar eclipse i don’t like it >:(

[fast anchor]

you should play it again

[foggy grotto]

not the other one tho

send the script

[foggy grotto]

BMRLIKE WITH SUMMONER NOOOOOOOOO

[fast anchor]

skill issue

[sour harness]

Idk summoner + science feels bad

[honest tide]

The only zombuul script I’ve thought of as good is the zombuul/vig/goblin script

I hated playing it but I recognize that if you enjoy zombuul it’s a good script

[next marlin]

funnily enough all these scripts are bad

[next marlin]

nah the premise doesn't work regardless of zombuul enjoyment

it's a really funny premise so people keep trying to make it but it doesn't work

[honest tide]

I mean… it kinda works

[foggy grotto]

the problem is that vigor and zombuul have such different kill patterns that unless theres crazy deathmod its usually discernable whether a vig-killed goblin is a possibility

[next marlin]

also having to sink 200 kills as the vigor is, like, bad, because you already have below-average counterplay to townsfolk abilities for a different set of tradeoff reasons to why zombuul does

[foggy grotto]

i genuinely forget sinking kills is a thing in this game

i never do it

i probably should ngl

[next marlin]

sink kills and kill evils and kill travellers and kill bait roles on purpose

[next marlin]

also wait how did I forget the most important catfishing pithag play

evil amne

[hollow oasis]

You don’t have any better options for Mexican food?

[fast anchor]

i probably do i just wanted chipotle

it was good 😋

[hollow oasis]

extreme confusion

In all seriousness I’d rather eat taco bell than non-rice chipotle

[fast anchor]

i got a burrito bowl

:)

so it had rice

[foggy grotto]

genus

[hollow oasis]

Legion should replace AlHad

[sour harness]

Bro is outing evil rn

Like, chipotle isn't top tier

But it doesn't stoop anywhere NEAR as low as t*co b*ll

[next marlin]

votefail moment

[coarse fern]

extreme confusion

[hollow oasis]

But Taco Bell isn’t Mexican food

It’s Taco Bell

One of a kind

But also there are actual Mexican food restaurants that taste good here

And if I told you about them, you could Google earth my location

[feral snow]

Aren’t you in ||Texas||

[hollow oasis]

exactly

No seriously they only have 1 goddamn restaurant

And have you considered TEXAS IS AS BIG AS FRANCE

Whataburger is mid fyi

It’s like McDonalds should’ve been

2/11 BOTC is hosting a food fight. For each character, what fast food would they use/who do they throw food at?

Chipotle Rice at the other Legion

[coarse fern]

|| Skinkulus || but it’s who likes chipotle

[gray ridge]

Ive never had chipotle ..

Or taco bell

[hollow oasis]

Good

[hollow oasis]

But what does golem throw

[coarse fern]

Beans to compliment the rice

Idk

[hollow oasis]

it’s literally any fast food

[sour harness]

Chipotle beans

[hollow oasis]

Goddamnit

[coarse fern]

Chipotle has good beans, I’d call that an improvement to golem

[hollow oasis]

: and are throwing Cease and Desist letters at eachother

is chucking KFC

[foggy grotto]

idk if this counts but Goblin is definitely throwing supermarket cakes

[hollow oasis]

Oh absolutely

[gray ridge]

Chef throws stuff he bakes himself because he refuses to eat fast food

VI throws happy meals

[hollow oasis]

Shabaloth throws up Quarter Pounders onto unsuspecting civilians

[honest tide]

I won a game of expert TB the other day where I sunk a kill N2. It was a crazy game especially since the empath had a 2 from day 2 to day 4

[ivory ridge]

hey guys

did you know that

The unpredictable Occultist is the strongest Outsider in Secret Thing for it's impulsiveness and information. The Mutant and Politician may accidentally spread correct info and the Damsel might bait a minion with their guess, but they are all disappointingly undermined when they eventually reveal their role to the town. The good team should relentlessly trust an Occultist's info, as they learn something new everyday

[gusty bear]

Good votes are evil votes if they’re voting with you

[next marlin]

:^)

[supple dirge]

2/12 Have you ever had any dreams about clocktower, what was it about?

[ivory ridge]

this is entering addict territory i fear

[sour harness]

I definitely have, good thing I don't remember any 😭

[tacit fiber]

I may or may not have worldbuilt for a long game in a dream

it was FyF where I read a grim reveal said, hey wait that doesn't work

then there was just another grim reveal

and another

[sour harness]

Iconic honestly

[supple dirge]

It's grim reveals all the way down

[barren zenith]

I wouldn't know

[lean isle]

A puzzle - find which grim reveal is real and mechanically makes sense :D

[pseudo fulcrum]

I've had multiple dreams about expansions

[lean isle]

I think I had some, but I can't remember.

[cold veldt]

“Steven came to my house” iconic

[barren zenith]

If I don't remember something that happened exclusively in my head, did it ever happen?

[tepid shard]

I've had dreams that were about playing BotC with my IRL group but it was like a nightmare with an actual poisoner and imp and shit

Not the vibe

[foggy grotto]

yeah literally last night I dreamed the released a new outsider

no idea what it did

[manic sinew]

Botc but if you die in the game you die in real life

[coarse fern]

Had a dream where I claimed golem and then killed my demon and got banned from my group for throwing

I’m not questioning it

[flat lintel]

Thoughts about it during life —> yes
Dreams during the night —> no

[next marlin]

Frequently, but they're "in universe" rather than about the game for the most part

[tepid shard]

fr

[alpine silo]

one time i had a stress dream abt running a script i wasnt good enough to run for a group of like 20

i occasionally get it as like. the Thing The Dream Happens Around. if that makes sense

[cold veldt]

oh shit I’ve had dreams where I’m like running a botc game but I’m like totally zoned out and I start clicking on other tabs and shit

[zenith lotus]

i was the kazali in a CC livetext, and i was doing my plan for when i eventually get kazali in CC where i dont make a widow and then bluff widow ping. i had already determined that i wanted my evil team to be vati and dire and the minions be cere and SW. however, i realized that i couldnt make dire the SW (as they will almost always get into some form of shenanigans) so i made vati the SW and dire the cere.

then vati got really mad at me for not making him the cere

[next marlin]

nah I can work with scarlet

I'm good at not being executed in f3

[fast anchor]

just make town execute on f4

[next marlin]

honestly my problem is that as good I can always build the most cooked 3 evils/hidden psycho/etc world that drives me to execute a good player on 4 anyway

anyway I'd say I can't wait to lose after the tc metas the person/vati/dire team but then I remembered dire would've been starting tc anyway

[coarse fern]

This conversation is giving me Vatimortis bluffing snake charmer flashbacks and I don’t like it

[fast anchor]

bluffing philo-snake

[next marlin]

love vatimortis

[supple dirge]

My dad works for nintendo vibes

[supple dirge]

I had a dream last night my local group was running a script that was just oracle, alchemist, organ grinder, wizard, legion

[foggy grotto]

2/13

I recently made a tier list where I ranked all the demons by how good they were on a solo-demon script. What do you agree with? What do you disagree with. You can make your own version with the template here https://tiermaker.com/create/botc-demons-solo-custom-script-16420509

[next marlin]

This was a fun one in #general, been thinking about it

I think No Dashii is overranked because of the popularity of Extension Cord

imo EC demonstrates how hard it is to make solo dashii work

[foggy grotto]

hmmmm fair point

I think I instinctively put it up there because of extension cord but yeah

[next marlin]

It needs a ton of droison because otherwise you just hardsolve, then in turn a town that can win in No Dashii Spoisoner Puzzlemaster, then in turn exactly Sentinel because ND hates outsider mod

[foggy grotto]

i think sentinel works on extension cord tho

[next marlin]

It does

But you kind of need it because no other outsider mod works on solo ND

[cyan reef]

nowadays Xaan would probably work

[next marlin]

Part of what can make dashii janky on customs is that it's not supposed to exist with outsider mod, it never can in snv, so you end with scripts with No Dashii/Baron wiping out an entire town

[tacit fiber]

Vortox solos are like rly cool

They don’t deserve to be in F

[foggy grotto]

they absolutely are

they just never work

[acoustic chasm]

i have several opinions but i need to figure this out

[foggy grotto]

there’s like 2 good solo vortox scripts ever

[cyan reef]

they rarely work

but I have seen them work

[next marlin]

unbiased™️

[foggy grotto]

👀 extension cord update???

[tacit fiber]

sure this isn’t true for like LoT Legion or Zombuul which inherently don’t work for the concept

[foggy grotto]

i’ve seen a LoT solo that works

it does have summoner tho

which some people count as a quasi demon

[next marlin]

on that note I've heard of vortox/atheist

[foggy grotto]

ooooh

[cyan reef]

for a long time I was hesistant to make any more changes to Extension Cord because it was in such a stable spot

nowadays I consider it retired because it's so well known that I think it should probably be left as-is

[next marlin]

LM is so so close to A but "script where you know for sure 100% of kills are ST-dictated" is a bit tricky

but actually it should probably make A anyway because that's only about as weird as solo kazali having inherently non-arbitrary evil teams

[foggy grotto]

shab got done dirty

you have clearly never played Gobblin’

[next marlin]

yeah

[next marlin]

C should be taken as the midpoint

[next marlin]

if I'm not comfortable opining too much on something it can go there

[foggy grotto]

LoT A tier???

[next marlin]

most demons are a bit wacky but functional as solo demons

[acoustic chasm]

You just need to build the script around it but I think it can work

[next marlin]

D and below is questionably functional

[foggy grotto]

i mean maybe but it’s not higher than ND, FG and LM

[acoustic chasm]

A lot of LoT scripts have stuff that are made to counter it

Sure

LM though has all its St directed kills, but ye LM should be higher

Fang Gu is cool

[foggy grotto]

shoutout solo Fang Gu i definitely have no bias

[acoustic chasm]

I feel yagg is overrated

Knowing from the start its a yagg game i feel is kinda icky

[next marlin]

solo yagga feels like it combines the worst bits of solo lm and solo kazali without many of their strengths

[acoustic chasm]

yea

I have made a solo yagg scipt

But its a doomsayer script

Where I think evil can get away with it

Otherwise, yea

Shab is awesome as a solo demon

Gets over the fact everyone knows what it is by the fact it can just kill kill kill

pukka might go a tad bit higher

very versatile demon

[sour harness]

Interesting how everyone's slotting imp into solo TB tier at the top and not questioning it at all

It's a great solo demon don't get me wrong

[barren zenith]

What is happening here?

[next marlin]

it's part of the structure

[barren zenith]

Solo-demon tier list?

[acoustic chasm]

We're judging how well these demons go as a solo demon

[sour harness]

I'd put levi with imp tho

[next marlin]

responding to kenoboi's list/trying to work out our own

[sour harness]

Skill issue, learn to click one button

[acoustic chasm]

I think Lleech is very solid but I havent seen many lleech scripts

[next marlin]

finally a list that isn't dramatically overrating solo vigor -- wait why is LM that low

[warped fog]

ST controls all kills

and everyone knows this

no need to lie to dodge kills

[next marlin]

it's tricky but I think it works out as similarish to solo kazali

[warped fog]

maybe LM can go up to C

[acoustic chasm]

I think LM adds something fun

[next marlin]

babytalk is "all ST kills" and seems to work pretty well as a script

(lm+yagga)

[warped fog]

ok LM goes to C tier

[next marlin]

if you have minions who can kill independently it works out

[acoustic chasm]

surprised how Zombuul is so high

Ok here's my final answer I think

[foggy grotto]

why is ojo so low :(

[foggy grotto]

huge fang gu W (once again no bias)

[acoustic chasm]

it does cool things to outsiders

kazali goes down to B because it is quite finicky with what minions you need on

[foggy grotto]

wdym just go Pithag Mezepheles Spy Poisoner

[warped fog]

S tier - work best on solo scripts
A tier - have interesting dynamics in solo scripts, not as hard to mess up
B tier - work on solo scripts, no real negatives
C tier - for some of these (like Vortox), with good scriptbuilding, can work and even potentially go A tier on solo scripts with their dynamics, but are rather hard to work with. either that or they're not B tier material but also not D tier material.
D tier - have non-negligible issues that become present in solo scripts. while they can still work you'll need to get around these issues one way or another
F tier - Legion

[acoustic chasm]

i think ojo needs a pretty specific script to make it a better solo demon than imp

but they do exist

[foggy grotto]

yeah fair

[acoustic chasm]

like if you have a Godfather Assassin Script where you're trying to do a bit of racing

[foggy grotto]

I was thinking of making a solo ojo script that focuses on the deathmod part of the ability

[acoustic chasm]

then sure

[next marlin]

even this doesn't work because you just go pithag+mez and make the turnee into the poisoner

[foggy grotto]

yeah

[foggy grotto]

TRUE

[acoustic chasm]

No obviously

[foggy grotto]

and then turn the spent mez into the spy

[acoustic chasm]

You go DA, Wizard, Pit Hag, Boffin

I am not biased

[next marlin]

by that point in the game you'll have the grim anyway

[barren zenith]

I think zombuul relies on the good team not knowing it's in play early in the game to win tbh

[acoustic chasm]

ye

also deathmod on solo zombuul

its not like its being used to sell another demon

so its not all that necessary

however... you need to have it on unless you want 3 hour games

[barren zenith]

It's being used to make sure the game lasts under a week lol

Yh

[foggy grotto]

oh sure

swap out spy for wizard

[honest tide]

A bit top skewed but I think most demons can make a solo script work. There’s just a few that I think really need the help of demon obfuscation

[next marlin]

both of the maybe-tier demons are at least a tier too high for somewhat different reasons

[honest tide]

Yeah I didn’t really know where to put them. YAG is super loud and I think it could be interesting. I’ve just never seen one that doesn’t just encourage never talking lmao

[fresh shard]

I feel like solo LoT would require an extremely niche script but could work

[honest tide]

And vig is just underpowered

[tacit fiber]

lemme see your LoT solos

[fresh shard]

Essentially the way I envisage solo LoT is that the challenge isn't just in solving for the Typhon line, but both figuring out where it is and not getting buried in evil's vote advantage before you do

[honest tide]

I feel every demon (except legion) can have a functional solo script it’s just the limitations on stuff like LoT and zombuul make it quite difficult

[tacit fiber]

I think that Vortox solos >>>>> LoT solos

[fresh shard]

Race to the Bottom is a fun script

For that reason alone I can't knock solo Vortox too much

[tacit fiber]

Zombuuls entire dynamic doesn't work with a solo script

[acoustic chasm]

I'll take you on on that challenge

[fresh shard]

Zombuul can work, it's just not interesting

[acoustic chasm]

But not right now

[next marlin]

Teensies are different

[honest tide]

Zombuul is difficult for sure. I have it very close to bottom tier for a reason

[next marlin]

as a normal demon mostly not (but it requires an assertive playstyle) but as a solo demon very yes

[honest tide]

Yeah I’m just talking as known demon

[fresh shard]

Does the demon itself need to be assertive or just the evil team in general

Solo Vig also runs into issues of its -1 outsider being pure downside

[next marlin]

the demon, because you have like negative safety nets

alongside the rest of the evil team, but you definitely need to be someone who doesn't crumple and die as a negative-safety-nets demon

[honest tide]

Yeah but if it’s built around I think a script could work more than like pukka, vortox, or zombuul

[fast anchor]

I don't know why you all keep trashing on Pukka

When historically it's been one of the better solo-Demon scripts when talking about scripts people have actually made

Same with Vortox to an extent though most of them are server-famous and not famous-famous

[honest tide]

I haven’t seen a solo pukka script I’ve actually liked

Like I’m sure it’s possible

[fast anchor]

i'm a big fan of Lullaby for the Dying

and while I haven't played Final Masquerade I've heard very good things

[fresh shard]

Pukka is limiting in what you can put on a script but not necessarily problematic to be solved for

[acoustic chasm]

its cool

[fast anchor]

If you put a lycanthrope on script pukka because way easier to solo build around

[barren zenith]

Outsider lycanthrope

[fast anchor]

I mean not really

It's still a Lycanthrope

[barren zenith]

It chooses some kills ig

[fast anchor]

at the end of the day

[honest tide]

I think for the mega poisoning demons (pukka and vortox) it’s just a big restriction

[barren zenith]

But it gives the evil team a poisoner they didn't have before

[honest tide]

Not impossible just very difficult imo

[fast anchor]

It allows the good team to narrow demon candidates super quickly

my list:

Trouble Brewing: Imp, Leviathan
S: Riot, Alhad
A: Pukka, Kazali, Fang Gu
B: Ojo, Po, Lleech, No Dashii
C: LM, Shabaloth, Vortox
D: Vigormortis, Yaggababble, Lord of Typhon
F: Zombuul, Legion

[foggy grotto]

shab higher than po?

i think shab does what po does as a solo demon but better

[fast anchor]

Part of it is me actually seeing a solo Po script that works and not a shab one

Part of it is that I think Shab is at its best when it's hidden for a couple days and has the incentive to sink its kills, which is something it doesn't have when it's solo demon

solo shab just becomes each night*, monch monch. but burp? which I don't especially love

[karmic rose]

I feel like solo yag could work if the group was very good about player etiquette and letting people talk

[fast anchor]

relevant solo Po script

[gray ridge]

I made solo typhon once

[ivory ridge]

there are too many tier

it's annoying

[gray ridge]

Never tested it

:P

[next marlin]

The legendary 7 minion script

[gray ridge]

True..

Ive also seen solo legion and good had magician

And evil somehow won

[tacit fiber]

why is Yag so low?

[tacit fiber]

why is Lev in TB 😭

[fast anchor]

Entirely ST-directed kills + encourages toxic play patterns of privately telling people "hey don't speak and if kills happen you're clear" (or silencing yourself for that same effect) which is just unfun

[tacit fiber]

mmm that's fair

[fast anchor]

I don't think it can't work ever, which is why it's not in F, but it needs a group of saints which I frankly don't think exists

[tacit fiber]

I made a Yaggababble solo script that's called Wiretapping which kinda has the point of listening out for phrases but it's fair that that doesn't work in some groups

[fresh shard]

Part of the reason Clocktower works is that it generally doesn't have cases where you have unfun strategies or restrictions people feel like they're disadvantaged by not following

Yagga pushes on that principle a bit and thus thrives on there being enough obfuscation and other info not to worry too much about it

[sour harness]

A 10p+ game has 35 unique evil team compositions. Gonna be honest I thought it was gonna be a lot higher, a standard script maxes out at 24

[ivory ridge]

hmmmm

if Imp isn't in TB tier it would be in B

maybe A

[dry sluice]

Pukka in A?
I've never played a solo Pukka script, but it seems like it needs lots of death mod or else it's super obvious who's been poisoned when

[ivory ridge]

how many death mod do you think pukka need in a 3-4 demons composition

[fast anchor]

it's just lycan and assassin and that's it

though you can add other death mod for taste

[minor pier]

So many high rankings for Riot... old Riot was absolutely a solo Demon, but I've felt like new Riot is significantly more interesting in multi-Demon scripts. Town having to decide whether to share info early or not, whether to use one-times early or not... all significant choices that are much harder to make for good when it's not alone on a script.

[tardy wyvern]

Honestly I mostly agree with this except I would probably bump ojo down a tier (but this is just because I don't like ojo)

My list would look like this

[acoustic chasm]

Yagg is always way higher than I think it deserves

And pukka lower

[tardy wyvern]

pukka when solo can be very detectable

i don't like yagga as a demon but it definitely works solo imo

[tardy wyvern]

Putting leviathan in the trouble brewing tier is surprising but based

[gray ridge]

I think the only truly unbuildable solo demon is legion

Solo LoT Pukka Vortox can have some niche scripts where it works

[tardy wyvern]

Are there any respected solo legion scripts

[ivory ridge]

wait i feels like have to explain my position for pukka

basically, pukka is a fraud

it can't work on script with 1kpn demon

without death mod

but it doesn't really also work where the rest of the demon consistently multi kill

so yagga, shab, po