secret thing

[gusty bear]

i maintain that golem is an outsider on this script

but it is probably changing

[next marlin]

puzzlemaster

ez

[gusty bear]

mmmm PM drunk tasty

[next marlin]

pm with townsiders is at its absolute funniest

[gusty bear]

i dont disagree, but i also don't think the script has the infrastructure to support that

[fast anchor]

I remember there being a reason why PM was rough

oh yeah PM/LM is a thing

also Acrobat dying on the puzzledrunk and solving the Demon

[fast anchor]

16/12 (time is real): It's been a while and we've got some new people here so here's a classic: if you were to ship two BOTC characters in headcanon, who would they be?

[gusty bear]

do they have to be released?

[zenith lotus]

[fast anchor]

spoiler them if they're not?

[zenith lotus]

they meet after throwing their respective weapons at each other

[fast anchor]

homebrew is fine but some people don't like gtting spoiled

[gusty bear]

ok for my official one it's and

[sour harness]

Long lost siblings

IGNORE THIS COMMENT IT'S BAD

[gusty bear]

for unnofficial it's ||wizard|| and

[fast anchor]

oooh that's spicy

[next marlin]

siblings
ship

[sour harness]

WAIT

[fast anchor]

yeah i'm not reacting 🔥 to that one anymore wtf

[sour harness]

I DIDN'T MEAN IT LIKE THAT

[next marlin]

it's funnier if you did, almost?

[zenith lotus]

the ship is still good, its just the sentence afterward

[sour harness]

Idk how those wires crossed in my brain 💀💀💀

I think I thought of the ship and then saw the characters and went "oh that's a cool way they could be related" forgetting that it was originally a ship

-# this isn't helping is it

[zenith lotus]

vati what channel are you on that you are getting these reacts, i want them

[gusty bear]

sounds like a cassandra clare book

[next marlin]

you're digging yourself deeper but it's VERY funny

[sour harness]

Oh I know

[next marlin]

private servers I've been in for 5 years

[gusty bear]

i have like important revision to do for mocks in the coming week but now i'm trawling through the wiki for good ships

[zenith lotus]

i'll just have to manually berk

[sour harness]

Brb walking into the ocean rn

[fast anchor]

oh yeah

[next marlin]

anyway, cere/pithag

[sour harness]

No those are actually just siblings

[gusty bear]

are a polycule

[fast anchor]

NO

[fast anchor]

holy based

[next marlin]

again,

[fast anchor]

no wonder why pit-hag and scarlet woman can't go on scripts together

[zenith lotus]

yea, the pit hag just keeps making more scarlet woman's

so its a problem 😉

[sour harness]

(time stopped being real) so what characters do you think are non incestuous siblings?????????????????

[gusty bear]

and

[gusty bear]

expand the polycule

[next marlin]

some of them -- oh wait "non"

[next marlin]

I don't picture the evil twin as a real twin exactly

[gusty bear]

the evil twin is specifically the savants younger brother who uses the same brain power to just be a bit of a dick

[next marlin]

"wow, he's literally me"

[sour harness]

🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨❌❌❌❌❌❌❌❌🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨

[next marlin]

rude to read strikethroughs

[sour harness]

my bad

[gusty bear]

the baron and the king are related in some way too

[sour harness]

They're colleagues I think

[errant geyser]

habsburg royalty

[acoustic chasm]

Not a ship but I can imagine the being the "obviously evil advisor you see in every movie" to the

[sour harness]

[time is a setup effect]: if you could change something about the base rules (NOT any of the characters, though some might have to change to reflect the base rules), what would it be?

[barren zenith]

The possibility for starting evil players to turn good (excluding snake charmer ofc)

[feral snow]

This is basically true due to jinxes

[indigo osprey]

The one thing I’d change would be a huge change and probably make the game complex, but differentiate between passive and active abilities (and everyone should have one of both?

[sharp violet]

The game starts on night 0. All characters that refer to a specific night are changed to maintain their current functionality (ex. Summoner summons on Night 2, Each Night* characters work all nights except Night 0, etc.)

[ivory ridge]

wait what is an example of this?

[lean isle]

An example would be Barber / Politician: the Demon swaps itself with Politician, the new good Demon kills itself and former-Demon evil Politician flips since they are the most responsible for their team losing.

There are not a lot of ways for evil players to become good, since most easy ways (Pit-Hag and Boffin) are jinxed.

[ivory ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/see-it-like-final-hamster-scared-gif-14498643

that

oh that's not 😭

[barren zenith]

Ogre is a worse offender too

[lean isle]

Yep

[next marlin]

You can also do variants of this with barber/CL and, on snv itself, barber/snakecharmer

It's the best worst homescript interaction

[ivory ridge]

barber poli sound so terrible or am i tripping 😭

[lean isle]

On SnV also Barber/Philo works.

[next marlin]

And is more likely to succeed because the philo will claim at some point earlier than the sc usually will

The risk ofc is that you learn you're now the evil mutant or sage

[sour harness]

Hmm if you run barber in the night order then there's counterplay

That's interesting

[ivory ridge]

hmmm come to think of it there's not really a base rule i disagree with

actually, what's the current stance of set up misreg

[sour harness]

"probably illegal, except exactly recluse + marionette"

[shrewd cloud]

I think the only thing I can really think of are nitpicks with parts of the glossary, like misreg not being the clearest thing in the world when it comes to its limits

[ivory ridge]

yeah ion't really like that 😔

[shrewd cloud]

But those aren’t actually problems with the rules really, just with how they’re presented

[cyan reef]

Recluse/Mario is sort of grandfathered in for now, but the intention is that abilities don't interact with other character ability setup

[sour harness]

Yes, though TPI (I think jams) said they wanted to keep recluse Marionette

[ivory ridge]

is there any severe consequences for having misreg interact with set up?

and even if there is can we just put it in 'yes, but don't' category

[indigo osprey]

you could add an additional minion when the spy registers as good

[shrewd cloud]

Playtesting showed that it wasn’t fun for stuff like LoT and I think Xaan too

[indigo osprey]

or as traveller, I should say

[cyan reef]

they didn't want to, it's just that they understand that it's a ruling that's kind of established and people like it

[indigo osprey]

townsfolk*

[cyan reef]

which is kind of funny since so many other established rulings haven't been held the same way

[ivory ridge]

technically, with current ruling, you can make it so that spy/recluse always lose by misreg them against wincon right? or is that not allowed i forgot

[shrewd cloud]

I think that’s thankfully explicitly disallowed in one of the rulebooks / almanac

[ivory ridge]

one of the rulebooks is a funny phrase (i have no idea how many editions there are)

[shrewd cloud]

“A player that “registers as” a specific character or alignment counts as that character or alignment for game rule purposes, and for other player’s abilities. For example, if a good player “registers as evil,” they are still good (and win when good wins), but they count as evil to characters that detect evil.”

Think this is the part in the glossary (though it comes with the annoying implication that self misreg isn’t possible though I feel like it pretty clearly is due to Zombuul)

So yeah guess my answer to this question is less about the rules and more about the glossary having weird/incomplete wording in some parts

[ivory ridge]

tbf, zombuul is a character that detect death huff copium

[shrewd cloud]

This misreg section in general sort of pretends Zombuul doesn’t exist which is a little annoying

Obviously there’s the Zombuul section in the BMR almanac to cover but it is still misreg even if it’s not based on alignment/character

[ivory ridge]

talking about misreg, there is another ruling i want them to clarify

(but idk if they already did)

what's the stance of misreg and uhhh

[cyan reef]

the game's glossary in general leaves a lot to be desired

[ivory ridge]

idk how to call this set of character

fisherman, general, hp

(and to an extent, savant (?))

[cyan reef]

I've seen those called vibes characters before

[ivory ridge]

fair

can misreg affect vibes char?

[cyan reef]

yes

so sayeth TPI

I think the General almanac even says it somewhere

or maybe not, idk, lol

[ivory ridge]

yeah i can't find a definitive ruling on this 😭

[feral snow]

TPI i think at least said you could to the Savant in the Lord of Typhon(?) reveal

They didn’t end up doing it but considered it

[sour harness]

I call them advice characters because it more clearly gets to the point of what they do (and it's a vain attempt to differentiate then from info characters)

Fisherman: should be obvious
HP: the ST is giving you advice on how to play the game efficiently and effectively by telling you who to talk to
General: the ST is giving you advice on how much you should keep pushing your current worlds vs switch gears entirely

[severe raven]

I still insist that you shouldn't be able to misreg to characters like Fish/Gen/HP because they don't look at raw alignment/character but the broader state of the game.

Just like how Chambermaid can't be fooled by a Spy because the Spy "registers as a non-waking character," similarly a General can't be fooled by a Recluse "registering as a Demon" because that's a Demon that is playing for good, has no ability to kill, and the ST has no intent on actually prolonging the game when the other Demon dies.

As the Puzzlemaster says, don't confuse just and should with is and isn't.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hume's_guillotine

[ivory ridge]

wait chambermaid can't be fooled by spy?

😔

[feral snow]

no

it doesn't matter what the spy registers as they still wake

[sharp violet]

But if they’re not registering as the spy are they waking to their own ability?

[alpine silo]

well they're certainly not waking due to someone else's ability

maybe a different characters ability but definitely their own

[next marlin]

mizu how do you keep posting livevoice commands here

[ivory ridge]

iont know what you're talking about

[valid garden]

I'd make abilities with multiple setup effects use multiple square brackets

So instead of, for example [-1 Outsider, +1 Minion] I'd do [-1 Outsider] [+1 Minion]

[sour harness]

Each night*, choose a player: they die. [Evil characters are in a line. You are in the middle] [+1 Minion] [-? to +? Outsiders]

[hollow oasis]

So cursed

[supple dirge]

1 step away from making a 2 dimensional matrix of setup abilities

[primal crescent]

what would that even entail

[sour harness]

If there wasn't an easy to way to communicate xaan I could totally see a 2D representation

[gusty bear]

[Evil characters are in a line] [You are in the middle] [+1 Minion] [X Outsiders]

[next vault]

[valid garden]

Yess

That's so much nicer

[sour harness]

It's only like 2 more characters which is nice

[hollow oasis]

[Evil characters are in a line] [You are in the middle]
[+1 Minion] [X Outsiders]

Made it a matrix

[tacit fiber]

more abbreviations

I would like to see, EN, C1P, they are poisoned. Previous player dies.

or like, EN, C1P. Chosen Minions lose their ability and learn this.

[sour harness]

not ENCAP?

EN*CAPTD. If you kill yourself this way, a M becomes the Imp

[feral snow]

EN*CAPTD

lol

[sour harness]

or to be slick with it

EN*KAP

[hollow oasis]

this is hurting

i like the non-jargonization of BOTC characters

[ivory ridge]

EN*CAPTDKYSM=D

person1001 you know exactly what the demon is :berk:

[zenith lotus]

you mispelled my name AGAIN 😭

[zenith lotus]

and yes i do 😉

[next marlin]

At this point I think it's intentional

[zenith lotus]

yea, but im still gonna react the same either way 😉

[next marlin]

"people1011" was so good

[sour harness]

persons101

[hollow oasis]

person10110111011101010101010010101000101111111111100010101010010

[sour harness]

nerd78

[hollow oasis]

nerdguf45

i've used this name so much

[severe raven]

I came up with EN*CAPTD a while ago

[foggy grotto]

TF with outsider abilities don’t proc vortox

[supple dirge]

12/20 What would different clocktower characters want for Christmas?

[acoustic chasm]

Atheist Their own set of Blood on the Clocktower

[sour harness]

the empath just wants a big hug

[midnight bloom]

World domination

[sour harness]

(and bweakfast)

[midnight bloom]

especially bweakfast

[pseudo fulcrum]

Another beer

[dense moat]

You

Meat

[gusty bear]

a pair of good boots

[foggy grotto]

Breath Mints

[agile sigil]

Rey Palpatine to pass their spirit into

[fast anchor]

a friend

[karmic slate]

coal

[dense moat]

A rabbit

[feral snow]

Bweakfast

[dense moat]

#1104980997470171177 message beaten to it

[vale oxide]

Can't have enough bweakfast

[next marlin]

LM is a kid. LM isn't asking for breakfast on Christmas, you get breakfast every day, it's asking for the most expensive and overadvertised toys you've seen in your life

[gusty bear]

what constitutes as a cool toy for a baby demon

[dense hound]

a doll to possess

[sour harness]

[feral snow]

A bowler hat

[sharp violet]

World domination

[dense moat]

virgin's blood

Or maybe a Mayor's head. THat dreadful old Mayor is so hard to get

[barren zenith]

Cannibal : on second thought, I might not finish that one

[sour harness]

All I want for Christmas is youuuuuuuuu

[agile raft]

Last christmas I gave you my heart

[hollow oasis]

Christmas-4: 2^X is about how many rice kernels are in a chipotle bowl filled to the brim. X is the amount of legion players on your Grimoire. Whoever makes the most balanced setup that answers X correctly gets an award.

[sour harness]

Ain't NO way you've counted

12 legion? Maybe 13? This would have to be a 15p game

13 legion is a lot tho

[next marlin]

make town alsaahir and mayor 🔥

[sour harness]

Alsaahir mayor slayer snake charmer

20 legion

[hollow oasis]

I never said you can’t have more than 15

[sour harness]

5 apprentice legions

[next marlin]

also poppy grower

[hollow oasis]

Just found the answer

So

Hint:A winnable setup is possible in the base game

[ivory ridge]

a bowl of chipotle (big) have around ~15000 grain of rice

2^14 is ~16k

so the answer is 14 legion and 1 alsahiir

that's the most balanced set up

[sour harness]

[sour harness]

Where's this number from out of curiosity

[hollow oasis]

All true

[hollow oasis]

Hey

[ivory ridge]

i made it up

this is pre-cooked rice though

so

[hollow oasis]

I got the same answer

[ivory ridge]

after you cook rice it doubled in volume

[ivory ridge]

so technically, 2^13 work for 2 cup of rice

[hollow oasis]

Why would you lie?

[dry sluice]

14 legion and 1 snake charmer that you barista sober each night

[hollow oasis]

It’s gotta be 2^12 now

[next marlin]

I saw a game where the st tried to do this

n1 took like 25 minutes so everyone outed legion because they assumed the st was going to rerack

(it was a more normal legion ratio than that but there was a poppy grower and a snake charmer and a barista who was going to sober the sc every night)

[hollow oasis]

Look

In All serious

You have up to 20 Players

Extra credit if you can make a balanced script to go with it

[fast anchor]

This is the kind of thing this forum was made for

[sour harness]

[time and time again]: let's make the worst whalebucket grim imaginable! You're presented with the opportunity to play whalebucket: which character of each type do you ABSOLUTELY NOT WANT TO PLAY?

[lean isle]

1 of each?

[sour harness]

So like for me I'd prob go

[sour harness]

Yeah exactly

[zenith lotus]

[barren zenith]

Maybe zealot over snitch on second thought 🤔

[lean isle]

[dry sluice]

when I play whalebucket I tell town a list of minions & demons from which the evil team was drawn. I'm not sure whether this makes courtier more or less miserable

[gusty bear]

seeing a lot of snitches

[barren zenith]

Vigor?

[gusty bear]

vigor on a whalebuckets isn't an experience i would particularly enjoy

maybe not as bad as ojo now i think about it though

[barren zenith]

Fair, I was just doing my least favourite roles to play in general rather than on specifically whalebucket

[lean isle]

Yeah, Snitch itself is not really popular, but in whalebucket knowing 3 out-of-play characters doesn't even feel useful.

[gusty bear]

to explain all of these - engi in a whalebucket just isn't fun, unless you house rule it and even then it's still just way to polarising, snitch is snitch, witch is way too loud in a game that otherwise solves to yaggababble, vigormortis' [-1 outsider] mod feels more detrimental to evil than the bluff space it opens up

[tacit fiber]

(still)

[next marlin]

Funnily enough I have been both Engineer and Kazali in whalebucket (I was very new at the time so didn't know how to use either yet)

hmm

maybe

Roles that seriously need limited worlds to function, and also Vizier because it sucks

Courtier and Hatter both need you to have some inkling of what evils can possibly be in play, Ojo in whalebucket resolves to "Each night*, a player might die"

A left-field townsfolk choice might be Amnesiac, which becomes random guessing if there are genuinely no borders on what the ability might conceptually be

Marionette is an alt minion choice for several reasons but I usually treat "you can't pick 'think' roles" as an assumption in whalebucket choices

[karmic slate]

Omg Courtier would be horrible

[tardy wyvern]

[dry sluice]

wait, do people pick their own roles in whalebucket? What's the format where the ST picks roles but there's no script

[next marlin]

Whalebucket draft, I should specify

Unspecified whalebucket I assume ST picks

But this one is implicitly a draft format so

[sharp violet]

[feral snow]

I don’t play draft whale bucket

So these really suck in our format

[hollow oasis]

Got it boss

Couldn’t think of a demon I hate being

Summoner was best choice

[fast anchor]

[gray ridge]

[next marlin]

Godfather is an interesting choice

[gray ridge]

I keep getting godfather when Im a minion so getting it on a script where you can be everything would be very disappointing

Might switch with for the same reason tbh

[ivory ridge]

there are defo worse pick than this but this is just for personal view reason

[foggy grotto]

If we’re playing whalebucket i’ve already come to terms that this is gonna be a silly game so might as well just try to avoid the roles that aren’t fun to play

[tall raft]

This sucks so bad

You are almost always drawing the atheist

[hollow oasis]

these are the ones you don't want

[fast anchor]

[time and place]: what is secret thing's opinion on the Hatter?

[feral snow]

I love hatter

I highly recommend reading the comments on that post it’s really funny

[next marlin]

average /r/botc posts

I don't love hatter, it's very much one of those "tools for the evil team" on-deaths that can kind of suck to play, but the other two very similar roles (Barber and Plague Doctor) are at least more unique and introduce some strategic variance

also it's ST-dependent what it does in unfortunate ways

[barren zenith]

It's ok

[hollow oasis]

Hatter.....................................

very mediocre tbh

[lean isle]

Hatter is fine imo.

[barren zenith]

Not my favourite character, but there are worse

Switchcraft isn't a bad script tho

[lean isle]

And pretty script dependant.

[foggy grotto]

i think hatter is quite fun ngl

not for the hatter of course

but on a well balanced script it can be fun

[karmic slate]

Tbh, I think I like Hatter purely because it’s aesthetic and vibe is fun more so than its ability

[indigo osprey]

Imo hatter should only be on execution, just like plague doctor

[karmic slate]

Wdym just like Plague Doctor

[indigo osprey]

So that their effect can be neutralized by a skillfull player or dumb luck

Both plague doctor and hatter’s effects should only happen upon execution, not night death

[karmic slate]

Meh I don’t agree with that- you’re an outsider 🤷‍♂️

[indigo osprey]

Sure, but saint and damsel are neutralized when they die

So is mutant

And plague doctor and damsel’s downside are <rough>

[ivory ridge]

saint and damsel are not the same type of outsider as hatter i feared

[indigo osprey]

I mean, of course they are different, but their effect is still neutralized

Like: plague doctor and hatter are just ‘waiting to die’

[ivory ridge]

damsel and saint are lose condition though, this is significantly stronger than whatever pd and hatter have to offer

anyway my opinion of hatter is that "it surely is a death-triggered outsider".
i put it on the same bin as "barber/sweetheart/klutz/moonchild/pd" and pull it out whenever i need a relatively hidden outsider

it simply is a tool to help evil win if the player mess up, and i'm fine with that.
just don't die

[pseudo fulcrum]

they'd be wayyy less impactful if they had to be executed

i've never seen a good place for mad hatter

[dense hound]

Love hatter but feel like chaos hatter needs to be used less

[sharp violet]

They each have their own time and place, chaos hatter absolutely needs scripts built around specifically it though

[sour harness]

I love hatter

Not mad hatter, idk why TPI recommended that even as an optional rule

Hatter is just engineer if it was fun

Also do people not like playing on death outsiders???

[karmic slate]

Only if you don’t die 😗

Jk jk even on death it’s fine and fun lol

[indigo osprey]

I have a script that's intended to use with mad hatter. The script is full of alignment detectors and is build around demons that can move (imp, lil monsta, scarlet woman) so mad hatter is just the logical extension.

[next marlin]

I don't enjoy "don't die ever, also it's very difficult to make a case as for why you can't die ever" as a playstyle

It's fine on a Fang Gu script because I just treat outsider abilities on Fang Gu scripts as "you are the demon"

But most of the on-deaths are tricky to work around and with the really nasty ones like Hatter it can just feel like you're an uncounterplayable massive setback for town no matter what unless you make yourself the d1 execution (which is still an execution you know is wasted, economy-wise)

[hollow oasis]

But unless the script is literally SNV

might as well

[next marlin]

Even Barber and Plague Doctor are easier to work around this way (PD is usually less damaging later in the game, Barber can be chained if you die too early so it incentivizes you to kill minion candidates so the demon can't swap late)

[hollow oasis]

Because A:Outed outsider let’s go

And B:Your ability can’t be put into play again unlike barber

[ivory ridge]

Funnily enough the post was complaining about hatter d1 lol

[hollow oasis]

But Vortox checks

Definitely

[fast anchor]

who do you think made that post 🤔

clearly this is vati's alt

[next marlin]

I have never rolled hatter :^)

hell actually on snv the only outsider I've been is klutz (in multiple fang gu games where I never got jumped)

and I think on other scripts I've never rolled an on-death

I keep rolling saint or recluse outsider-wise

[cyan reef]

I think Plague Doctor is fun enough because (assuming a well-written script) it's still probably somewhat useful late in the game, but generally much more useful earlier in the game, so there's a good incentive to try and hide for a good while

Hatter is a little bit weirder, and really Barber is like this too, where an early death is preferable because it's less useful to evil then...S&V attempts to manage this though with a Fang Gu, providing Barber an incentive to stay hidden for a while

[karmic rose]

My intuition is that mad hatter would be more manageable for town on a mono-demon script, but then it also just becomes a more damaging barber?

[flat lintel]

Mad hatter is absolutely not fun in my opinion.

Hatter is alright.

I don't like rolling the character because of the power associated with it.

It sorta makes me feel trapped when I'm it.

Like if I die early on N2, I'm messing with early town info and stuff like Chefs and N1 pings are all gone

and If I die later, I'm hoping for a quick game, but if not, than I'm just basically handing evil the win

It's also kinda hard when Hatter is put on scripts with like very movable characters too

just hate having to throw out basically my whole understanding the second a character dies

barber is different because it's just I have a few more worlds to consider

and plague doctor is funny because I have 1 more possibility to consider

[shrewd cloud]

Regular Hatter’s whatever to me. Not my favorite but it’s perfectly fine

I don’t like Mad Hatter though

I do like Hatter’s theming overall and the character icon, so I’ll at least give it that

[gray ridge]

Hatter as character is pretty cool (unless they run mad hatter its lame in that case) but I would not like to roll it

I dont like to be barber sweetheart pg hatter etc

[supple dirge]

I like hatter alright, I prefer barber when making scripts though. Feels more versatile

[indigo osprey]

I like both plague doctor and hatter, but imo it sucks that the only thing they can do is 'try to stay alive while offering nothing'

outsiders like saint and soldier can at least have counterplay by trying to get themselves killed

[supple dirge]

Soilder is my favorite outsider

[indigo osprey]

it's pretty strong as an outside,r yes

[supple dirge]

Too strong, it should be a townsfolk

[indigo osprey]

nah, it's no tthat strong

[fast anchor]

christmas eve: the botc christmas party is coming up, and they're doing white elephant! what did everyone bring?

[dense moat]

A bomb shaped like a Christmas present

Whatever their twin brought

Flowers

Drugs

[sour harness]

Wait snitch was good

[dense moat]

A list of everyone else's gifts

[dense moat]

Put it back

[fast anchor]

you're fine, dw

[dense moat]

The Bible

[fast anchor]

pretends like they brought something, doesn't bring anything, steals people's gifts

[dense moat]

Nothing. But they would like cake please

[fast anchor]

Also flowers. The GF knows how to party

[sour harness]

a newton cradle

[dense moat]

I mean, I was considering saying "A rose"

[fast anchor]

a subscription to the town newspaper

[dense moat]

Christmas cookies

[sharp violet]

Clothes they bought for their son (the Choirboy) before the Demon killed him

[dense moat]

An ax

Coal

[sharp violet]

Also flowers

[dense moat]

A golden toothpick

[fast anchor]

thank you for not making the pukka tea joke 🙇‍♀️

[dense moat]

Peppermint tea

[sharp violet]

A personal hair cutting kit (like my dad has)

[fast anchor]

Is one of the gifts

[dense hound]

beanboozled jelly beans

[fast anchor]

that's good

[sharp violet]

A toy piano ( doesn’t need it anymore now that they’re being gifted off)

[dense moat]

A magic word :)

[fast anchor]

Swears the crystal ball wasn't broken when they wrapped it

[ivory ridge]

bring no gift, instead just threaten to call the police

[dense moat]

Wasn’t invited (they ate all the cookies and also )

[ivory ridge]

a suspicious apple

[fast anchor]

was invited, but is ditching in solidarity with shabaloth

[ivory ridge]

host the party, but take other people's gift while unnoticed

[dense moat]

A “friendly” glass of wine

[fast anchor]

A friendly glass of wine

hmm, i think widow has better opportunities for a joke than poisoner

[sharp violet]

forgot today was the party so hurried and bought the last sudoku book in stock
procrastinated and saw the buy the last sudoku book, so they got the leftover wine bottle

[dense moat]

Yeah it was intended for Widow

[fast anchor]

i mean, you can do more than "a friendly glass of wine" for widow I think

[sharp violet]

A Swiss Army Knife

[dense moat]

Poisonous spiders

[fast anchor]

A pizza delivered to your house (no need to tell her your address, she already knows)

[ivory ridge]

mario kart after failing to acquire luigi

[fast anchor]

what did mizu mean by this

wait is this a fucking assassination joke

[ivory ridge]

let's gooooo

took a while

[dense moat]

Santa hats

[sharp violet]

did not attend the party

[dense moat]

Diseases

A nice looking pebble

[fast anchor]

aww wait i kinda love that for golem

[ivory ridge]

a star

[dense moat]

A bunch of really cheap novelty Santa bobbleheads

[sharp violet]

His personal copy of the choir the Choirboy was in singing Little Drummer Boy for him

[ivory ridge]

did not bring anything. still take a gift

[sharp violet]

The

[fast anchor]

Their manifesto (a vatiwall of text, if you will)

[dense moat]

An invitation to an after party at their garden (get while supplies last)

[next marlin]

cere is even more of a manifesto guy amongst the snv evils, surely

[fast anchor]

I think that might be projection

[sharp violet]

3 etched bullets (taken from the evidence pool)

[dense moat]

A collection of scribble and mathematical symbols

[zenith lotus]

brought sarcasm

[sharp violet]

A songbook ( ends up with it)

Backgammon

[fast anchor]

A really interesting light read ( ends up with it)

[ivory ridge]

keep telling everyone their gift is somewhere in there (they did not bring one)

[sharp violet]

Pajamas

A gift card to the shop they work at

[dense moat]

Mistletoe

[fast anchor]

A less light read, but it's still a good science book ( ends up with it)

[next marlin]

toothbrush

[ivory ridge]

a gift that tell them to pass along

[dense moat]

A jokebook

[sharp violet]

was out of town this year

[fast anchor]

came with their parents and so didn't bring anything, but ends up with 's jokebook

[dense moat]

Old McKillys Extra Spiced Rum

[fast anchor]

A noise complaint

[dense moat]

Ugly Christmas sweater

[barren zenith]

propaganda poster

[next marlin]

a Tarot set, but it's this one

[sharp violet]

Cookies from the store - but they also bring cookies from the store for everyone who didn’t bring something themselves

[fast anchor]

THAT'S SO GOOD

[zenith lotus]

a jack in the box, except jack is the name of the axe

[dense moat]

Ok that’s funnier than mine

[fast anchor]

A nice candle

actually there's a better character for this (was originally mayor)

[dense moat]

Five golden rings

Two turtledoves

[sharp violet]

I’m making Gn this right now

[fast anchor]

four calling birds

[ivory ridge]

did not go so they can close a world

[fast anchor]

three french hens

[dense moat]

Nine pipers piping

(a stretch but I tried)

[fast anchor]

(we established that the minstrel isn't coming to this year's party)

they can be a surprise guest

👏

[dense moat]

Wait… who’s the Partridge in a pear tree then? Is there anyone who’s that?

[fast anchor]

Your card (literally how?????)

[barren zenith]

wait... it's Christmas?

[dense moat]

The Christmas card you were going to give someone

A gift they “found”

[fast anchor]

A partridge in a pear tree, because he saw this coming Sweetheart fits better

[sharp violet]

They had to hurry - they bought the gift Puzzlemaster was going to get someone

[ivory ridge]

what would bring?

[barren zenith]

Japan? Idk

[fast anchor]

Shugenja doesn't celebrate christmas but brings something nice anyway

Probably something horribly off-season but the thought is there

[ivory ridge]

omg

KFC

[dense moat]

actually this

[ivory ridge]

would totally bring KFC

[fast anchor]

oh my god of course

[dense moat]

https://tenor.com/view/lezly-lezly-pezly-xieliannnnn-kyoya-glasses-kyoya-gif-25335567

[fast anchor]

A really cozy blanket

[ivory ridge]

meat pie

[dense moat]

Didn’t bring anything, tried to smash up the party

Only brought something so they could pick the most expensive gift first

[fast anchor]

Gets kicked out and goes to sulk with and

[ivory ridge]

crystals

[dense moat]

The lore!

[fast anchor]

A unaddressed love note that was very obviously intended for someone specific at the party

( ends up with it and all is well)

[warped fog]

what's been done so far

[dense moat]

An original copy of The Art of War

[fast anchor]

@warped fog top

[ivory ridge]

ok this is out of character but
would bring alkaline powder and naloxone kit to make sure everyone is safe

[warped fog]

legion~1 an invitation to the legion

[fast anchor]

this checks out, Mastermind just wants to have a good time

[next marlin]

that's why he claims minstrel

[fast anchor]

no killing or death at this party if they can help it

Lil' Monsta

[warped fog]

Puzzlemaster 10,000-piece jigsaw of a white cow in a snowy blizzard

[next marlin]

mood

[warped fog]

bought drinks for everyone at the party... very out of character

[sharp violet]

Yeah, actually thats better than what I picked, they get that

[fast anchor]

A bomb

[sharp violet]

I’m working on filling out the Snitch’s list right now

[ivory ridge]

moonshine

[warped fog]

an axe

[fast anchor]

A recreation of Santa's naughty/nice list, but for everyone attending the party

[ivory ridge]

wait both of these are so good

[fast anchor]

I don't think the Spy is doing anything malicious at this party, same as the Mastermind

just here to have a good time

[dense moat]

Fro reference, we have

Not even all of them either

[next marlin]

some of the beautiful plants from their garden, where for some reason the decorative octopus statue has really long tentacles

[dense moat]

We kicked ass this time

[warped fog]

a millenium-old dusty old book with satanic rituals in it

[dense moat]

A brew called “Barrowfog”

[fast anchor]

I still don't know what he'd bring, but he's dressed as Santa

[dense moat]

Batman

[ivory ridge]

their grandchild,
retirement fund

[fast anchor]

a set of the comics, or like, the guy?

[dense moat]

Either/or :)

[warped fog]

propaganda posters for their cause

[next marlin]

for 's cause, surely

[fast anchor]

A really cool toy for one of the kids ( ) but it ends up blowing up

[warped fog]

i always forget the Steward is canonically nine years old

[dense moat]

Drinks while they host the party there

[fast anchor]

ooooh innkeeper totally tends bar

that's a good one

The head of lettuce that outlasted one of the UK's prime ministers

[dense moat]

I think I should reiterate that we really did a good job this time. So many cool ideas from everyone!

[fast anchor]

We still have a few more hours, depending on your timezone

[sharp violet]

Here's the list I have so far

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Wu70MYRchh828I-B6ERLsOmGBC5cpivDTA8YIK2JflU/edit?usp=sharing

(I added the Mayor's gift)

[fast anchor]

Mayor saw this coming and filled in the gap

Thank you Mayor

[sharp violet]

Fun things I’ve done: 1 character of each character type brought flowers

5 days of Christmas

Some continuity

[supple dirge]

A coupon to 'take care of someone' for you

[sharp violet]

A framed photo of all their friends

2 turtle doves - he saw the gap and filled it

A self-help book

[hollow oasis]

Cake

[sharp violet]

Good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people

[fast anchor]

Flowergirl, godfather, Po... which outsider?

[hollow oasis]

a silencer

[sharp violet]

I added Gardener for Fabled, Gnome for Traveler, and Damsel for Outsider

[fast anchor]

oooh

[sharp violet]

It happens to look exactly like the cake the Empath brought for everyone who didn’t bring anything themselves

[fast anchor]

Is this actually sweet or a joke about how the atheist has no friends I can't tell 😭

[hollow oasis]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[sharp violet]

Actually sweet

[hollow oasis]

wasn't atheist's gift a copy of Blood on the Clocktower, the new hit game?

[sharp violet]

Christmas is a time to be with friends, for someone who doesn’t believe in religion

[sharp violet]

We never actually decided that before, I think that would work really well for Djinn

[supple dirge]

a family portrait they painted themselves

[hollow oasis]

fair enough

[sharp violet]

I made a spreadsheet showing everything that we’ve filled in so far

[sharp violet]

You can suggest things there if you like

couldn’t afford anything to bring

[fast anchor]

A cool fishing rod, but the real gift is the wisdom he imparts on the fishing trip he inevitably invites the recipient to afterward

[sharp violet]

A gold-colored fiddle (not actually made of gold)

A crown of feathers

And that finishes all the Minions

[supple dirge]

They would start the festivus airing of grievances

[dense moat]

A punch in the stomach

A fancy watch they made themselves

Tickets for a balloon excursion

Another lollipop

Elderberry perfume (intended for )

[sour harness]

3 more lollipops I think

[supple dirge]

One of the lollipops has gone bad, shouldn't eat that one

[sour harness]

It's your lollipop, trust

[primal crescent]

A diploma in apprenticeship

[dense moat]

Undecided Gifts

Townsfolk

- Invest

• FT
• Undertaker
• Monk
• Slayer
• Chambermaid
• Excorist
• Gossip
• Fool
• Oracle
• Savant
• Juggler
• Banshee
• Bounty Hunter
• Cult Leader
• Engineer
• Huntsman
• Knight
• Lycan

Outsiders

- Saint
- Klutz
- Ogre

Demons

• Zombuul
• Kazali
• Lleech??
  -~~ Lord of Typhon~~

Forgot NWM & didnt get the Travellers

[gray ridge]

its blessing

[gusty bear]

lleech - a ringworm

[gray ridge]

dropped it while coming to the party

[dense moat]

Didn't get anything, slept in

A sacrifical bull

[dense moat]

intended for their freinds only & they rigged the system to do that

Computer viruses

[gray ridge]

proof someone on the party commited a crime

[dense moat]

that or a used video game thats broken on purpose

[hollow oasis]

Koolaid

[gray ridge]

a cool stick (only for their friend)

[fast anchor]

i'm pretty sure we already had lleech

[hollow oasis]

A phone

[dense moat]

A lamp

[hollow oasis]

a land title

[dense moat]

thats also why i did it in questuon marks. because i didnt see it on sheet

also i just realized we defiinitely did Raven

[hollow oasis]

A ball of dust with googly eyes

[dense moat]

unless they moved things on sheet

[hollow oasis]

megaphone

Infrared Camera

[dense moat]

2000 piece lego set with little motors

[hollow oasis]

Ghost Hunting Night Vision Camera

[dense moat]

that tracks i suppose

Nothing (they dont keep lots of money at the monastary)

[fast anchor]

I'm starting to think some of you don't know what white elephant is

[hollow oasis]

I thought these were supposed to be the best possible gift

[dense moat]

Everyone brings a gift, then everyone take turns picking without knowing who brought what

iirc

[hollow oasis]

ah.....

[dense moat]

Foam juggling balls

[hollow oasis]

Head of a Deer, that they killed with their bare hands

[dense moat]

[hollow oasis]

damnit

[dense moat]

just do a little edit :)

and we stll fill in Gangster

[hollow oasis]

they brought the same thing

kidding

[dense moat]

Oracle, FT, Undertaker, Slayer, Savant

what would they get?

Brass knuckles (intended for neighbor)

[hollow oasis]

Undertaker got the ghost seeing camera

[dense moat]

Real crossbow

[hollow oasis]

a 100m by 100m Chalkboard

We are not sure how they got that

or how it got in the building

Family

[dense moat]

Comedy movies

[hollow oasis]

10,000 Gallons of Holy Water

HOW ARE WE GETTING THESE

[dense moat]

Mathemetician got drunk on holiday alchohol

[hollow oasis]

Solved Riemann Hypothesis with the Savant and Professor on the 100 meter by 100 meter chalkboard

Stole money for himself

Found dead in an alleyway 7 days later

[dense moat]

Oracle...

Incense?

[hollow oasis]

yes

we're done

wait FT

uhhh

[dense moat]

havent done Travellers but otherwise yes

Rifle

[hollow oasis]

Geniebot 6,000

given by engineer

[dense moat]

Busy making bacon for Christmas morning

A ring found off some guy who was buried in the snow

[hollow oasis]

a lifetime supply of paper,printers,and ink

[dense moat]

Spirited Away

[hollow oasis]

promotion to cardinal from king

[dense moat]

A gavel

A sickle

[hollow oasis]

a meterstick

as a walking cane

[dense moat]

A cool doll that didnt explode

A pool floatie resembling a skiff

[hollow oasis]

make a guess

I'm literally just not willing to type that in a BOTC forum

[dense moat]

A coupon for one favor from God

[hollow oasis]

Keys to the run down escape room

[dense moat]

Reciepts for all of the gifts (provided by Snitch)

[hollow oasis]

Clothes

[dense moat]

and here i was being wholesome and saying jokebook 😭

/j

but yeah probably shouldnt bring your idea in writing

[fast anchor]

we even connected the jokebook to the botc cinematic universe 😭

[hollow oasis]

yea no

[dense moat]

A list of names written in blood

[hollow oasis]

only thing i'll say is that harlot and deviant swapped

[dense moat]

Oh wait Buddhist

A lotus (doesnt celebrate but is providing support)

[hollow oasis]

A really big tax ramp up

declares bankruptcy, is suddenly happy

[dense moat]

I think we did it

i think thats everything

[hollow oasis]

did we do harlot yet

[dense moat]

I did mistletoe

[hollow oasis]

makes sense

[dense moat]

Sentinel

Wait what does Sentinel or Duchess get?

[hollow oasis]

Lie detector

[dense moat]

scones

[hollow oasis]

that's it

yea

[fast anchor]

-# hey we still have all of the misfits to do

[flat lintel]

misfits?

[sharp violet]

I don't see anything for Ravenkeeper, Snake Charmer, Philosopher, Fibbin, Spirit of Ivory, Storm Catcher, or Pumpkin (and I didn't like the one for Bishop)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Wu70MYRchh828I-B6ERLsOmGBC5cpivDTA8YIK2JflU/edit?usp=sharing

[supple dirge]

Pumpkin - leftover halloween candy

[sharp violet]

Ooh - I have a good one for Bishop: A yacht

Ravenkeeper: A birdcage

Philosopher: A long philosophy textbook

Snake Charmer: A collection of ornate jars

[supple dirge]

Fibbin - accidentally went to the wrong party

[sharp violet]

Spirit of Ivory: A PSA poster about why hunting elephants for their ivory is bad

Storm Catcher: A radio set to communicate in a storm

and that's the list filled!

[dense moat]

🥳

What’s your favorite, VGVideo?

Also… how expensive would an IOU from God be? Because that’ sounds like the item the Ojo would gun for

[hollow oasis]

Bishop getting a yacht is funny

Was this from the king or vizier (or bureaucrat)

Embezzlement seems involved

[sharp violet]

No, Bishop is giving the yacht (he got it through embezzlement and now he wants to not get caught)

Which is why the Ojo isn't taking it

[hollow oasis]

Wait he’s giving the yacht?

[sharp violet]

like i said - he wants to not get caught for embezzlement, it's an investment for him

[hollow oasis]

Ah…..

Interesting

Also

Canonically

The Mathemetician got drunk, teamed up with the Professor and Savant to solve the Riemann Hypothesis

Stole all the credit

Then the Professor and Savant Hired the Godfather to take him out

The Godfather decided to send the Lycanthrope

(The Mathemetician is now very dead in the street, his head hanging on the Lycanthrope’s wall of heads)

[sharp violet]

And that's the crime the Investigator finds proof of?

[hollow oasis]

Yes

[sharp violet]

I love it

[hollow oasis]

We will just ignore that the lycanthrope has 23 heads on the wall

Mathemetician was the 23rd

Invest saw Lycan or Godfather

As murderer

[sharp violet]

My favorite gift is probably the Amnesiac's

[hollow oasis]

Wait

Why did the Shugenja bring KFC?

??

[sharp violet]

They don't celebrate christmas, so they brought something random

[hollow oasis]

I see

Turns out the KFC is actually Kansas Filled Choclate

it’s chocolates shaped like Kansas

[ivory ridge]

Japanese celebrate Christmas by buying KFC LMAO

[hollow oasis]

right

I forgot

[ivory ridge]

KFC has a really good marketing campaign in Japan

[hollow oasis]

That’s true

[sharp violet]

I genuinely did not know that

[hollow oasis]

Alright

Ok

The Kazali’s Computer virus

It managed to infect Geniebot 6,000

And started playing ||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvfD5rnkTws|| Virus Alert by Weird Al

And the Geniebot started summoning……..

A swarm of flying envelopes

Flying into everyone’s face

The Kazali then immediately got cursed by the witch, and all the envelopes started to attack them instead

Everyone laughed

And the klutz spilled coffee on the envelopes

On purpose this time

[hollow oasis]

this christmas was chaotic

[next marlin]

Postscript: just got a new Tarot set in my family's equivalent of gift trading

Can't wait to roll moonchild when everyone pressgangs me into BMR

[ivory ridge]

post script revelation

[hollow oasis]

Wait

It’s Christmas Eve

What

Is it the timezones again

[ivory ridge]

What

The hell is this 😭

Wdym :52

[hollow oasis]

Am or pm

[next marlin]

Afternoon

[hollow oasis]

Phew

I thought you had coffee

[sour harness]

Wdym "when"

[next marlin]

I assume it's going to happen at some point, hence "when"

[sour harness]

Oh you mean you actually playing it

I've been at least trying to pressgang you into playing BMR for a while now

[next marlin]

I promise it'll happen at some point!! It just hasn't happened yet

Alternatively I'll roll moonchild in cc and instantly become a minion anyway

[hollow oasis]

Vat

BMR

is just as good

As SNV

the difference

Is ST metaing

Hard

It’s basically how one plays general or HP but the script

[next marlin]

Yeah which is why out of all the people I know there are like five I trust to run it

[hollow oasis]

Pacifist Gossip both rely on this to work

[next marlin]

It's just circumstances conspiring at this point

[ivory ridge]

am I..one of them 🥺

[hollow oasis]

You basically need a metable ST

[next marlin]

I don't need a BMR spiel it's literally just circumstances

[hollow oasis]

and I don’t run BMR because I’m not sure I want to

I probably could, if pressed

[ivory ridge]

i run bmr game once. it lasted nearly 2.5 hours

and i only make one ST mistake

well two

but none are game impacting

[next marlin]

The list of people I trust to run BMR is axo/hystrex/person/kenoboi/kuro

[hollow oasis]

I just had a Zombuul game with 2 Kills on D2 and D3

[ivory ridge]

damn so not me 😔

[hollow oasis]

Gossip and Tea lady go brrrr

[hollow oasis]

Would you trust me

Reasonably

[ivory ridge]

still kinda mad people were questioning my pacifist save

😔

[hollow oasis]

What was the save

[ivory ridge]

(i don't think they question it after grim reveal so it's fine)

[ivory ridge]

a suspicious gossip

[hollow oasis]

wat happen

[hollow oasis]

Oof

Did it look like DA

[next marlin]

The only executed non minion who wasn't the sailor lmao

[ivory ridge]

uhhh they execute the sailor d1 who was drunk for drinking with evil, so i don't want to safe them to hint at an evil person

then d2 they execute said minion

then d3 they execute a second minion

by d4 no one was confirming them because chambermaid hit the outed goon

[next marlin]

It was either the gossip or never proccing

[hollow oasis]

Ah

[ivory ridge]

the pacifist safe stall the game long enough for good to win

[hollow oasis]

Zombuul is fun

[ivory ridge]

and i'm proud of that 🥺

[hollow oasis]

Ok

[next marlin]

I mean in practice I'm sure you or parker can
It's more that I don't want to play BMR with randoms so I don't play it much at all

[hollow oasis]

I can run exactly pacifist effectively

because ya know

My legion script

I don’t trust myself with gossip

Not touching that thing with a 2 foot pole

[gray ridge]

I had an evil turn pacifist game that was wild

[hollow oasis]

Woooooooo

Ok

I need to see that script

[gray ridge]

it was like 7 players

the recluse hard registered as a demon on demon info and also had a boffin ability and we also had a magician

both the demon (lleech) and the recluse had the professor ability

[hollow oasis]

Wait that’s not legal

[gray ridge]

by normal boffin and alch boffin

[hollow oasis]

Oh nvm

Evil pacifist is funny

[gray ridge]

we had to fiddle lol

it was fun

there was also another one on this same script where I was the evil pacifist but I didnt rlly do anything ngl

it was a bigger game as well

[hollow oasis]

Huh

Legion Pacifist is a good combo

But it’s like

The only BMR role you can put on a legion script

you might be able to get away with grandmother, but that’s a stretch

[barren zenith]

[25/12]: What are your top 3 favourite non-base-3 character interactions?

[vale oxide]

King/Choirboy 👍

[karmic slate]

Nightwatchman + Xaan
Village Idiot + Legion
High Priestess + Boffin

[barren zenith]

Is HP + boffin fun?

I always thought it was just "another useful boffin ability", while still having the characteristics of an "each-night" steward

*when it isn't a boffin ability

[acoustic chasm]

i think its good for magician/poppy grower games

[barren zenith]

Yeah

[acoustic chasm]

also knowing who to talk to as an evil player might lead to you talking to the players who will give you an advantage

[indigo osprey]

Given how powerful high priestess is sometimes (as an 'each night, learn a good player') , it's a very good 'confirmation'

like

I have had games where a HP in final 3 has to reconstruct their entire game and based on that, people see if that's trustworthy

so: on day 1 you got poppygrower, day 2 you got fortune teller who had a yes, day 3 you got empath who got a 1? This seems credible, you are probably not the demon

[karmic slate]

I like HP Boffin (and other ones where the info you can provide is for the Demon) because it allows you to construct info useful for the Demon as opposed to fake confirmation. And alternatively, a regular HP can find Boffin info/non-Boffin info

[hollow oasis]

Huntsman Heretic

(When you can do outsider mod and it doesn’t make it more of an outsider)

[foggy grotto]

Cult Leader + Heretic isn't actually fun I just like how it makes sense thematically

for actual interactions I really like Preacher + Marionette because of how it removes their ability by informing them that they're a minion. Preacher Goblin can be great too since the Preacher can just be evil and lying but if the preacher is confirmed good its a bit sad

Boffin-Recluse is also incredibly underrated

[sour harness]

[barren zenith]

How is that a good interaction?

[ivory ridge]

hehe

but joke aside

[zenith lotus]

marionette that thinks they’re an outsider doesnt count to the X. at least, i assume thats what they’re referring to

[ivory ridge]

can be fun if run well
make it so outsider count can be non-metable
is quite interesting (assuming not a solo ojo script)

[barren zenith]

Mine is probably acrobat + VI

[ivory ridge]

acrobat pm can be fun

(but you need multiple sources of droison)

[sour harness]

Marionettes with an outsider token are suddenly a lot more viable, and marionettes with Townsfolk tokens can push the wrong xaan night

[cold veldt]

from number 1 to number 3:
- the marionette having to return to their ogre to say “hey I think we might be evil” is peak
- this one somewhat depends on the other roles on script, but the demon using their boffed ability to find their evil team provides really interesting counterplay to PG
- it’s just really good synergy, the xaan will always know at least whether or not a snitch is in play, and if it is, it may know other outsiders that aren’t in play

[sour harness]

Woah a good interaction with snitch no way

It's not a blankish token!!

[cold veldt]

ikr, the first snitch interaction!

[sour harness]

True!

[ivory ridge]

smh

[cold veldt]

oh and I suppose

but those are all of the 3 snitch interactions

well and somewhat

[next marlin]

The snitch interaction is that if you draw snitch you know, ignoring outsider mod, that you are the snitch instead of a more damaging outsider

I think a lot of people underrate this function of the more blankish-token outsiders (e.g. snitch, butler)

"Blankish token" is the best case scenario for an outsider in terms of their effect on town

(ignoring townsider scenarios)

I'd very much rather be snitch than one of the super devastating on-deaths (barber, hatter, plague doctor) because being the snitch means it is somewhat less likely one of those is in play

(this is nicely synergistic imo with the fact the two roles that make outsider count most arbitrary are the transformation demons, which are functionally hatejinxed with snitch)

[ivory ridge]

wym by this?

[gusty bear]

kazali and lot

[next marlin]

Kazali and Typhon produce fully arbitrary outsider counts such that you can't solve anything based on the presence or roles of outsider claims, but they also give minions bluffs by their nature, so they don't coexist with Snitch

[ivory ridge]

b-but with kazali typhon and snitch you can get access to full grim d1

😔

[next marlin]

Just soulread people lmao ez

[ivory ridge]

soulread?

[next marlin]

look into their Soul and tell what they're doing

[cold veldt]

this is how you bluff dreamer too

[next marlin]

damsel screaming crying throwing up

[gusty bear]

that's how you tell that vati is the vig

[next marlin]

hey, your first solve before you left was that I was the cere

[gusty bear]

that world broke after a little while

[next marlin]

yeah I was trying to mech work out if there were any me minion worlds

I think the fang gu world actually didn't break given the sweetheart proc, because one of the living players in f4 would be the new fang gu, one would be a hidden mutant, and one would be sweetheart drunk

[gusty bear]

there wouldn't be a sweetheart proc

[next marlin]

but it breaks on "does vati make a traveller mad as the snake charmer"

[gusty bear]

queso had to be your demon

[next marlin]

sweetheart exploded d1

[gusty bear]

oh wait yeah nvm

[next marlin]

queso claimed klutz

[gusty bear]

i got mixed up

[fast anchor]

no you bluff dreamer by eavesdropping on whispers in the corner of the room

[next marlin]

bluff dreamer by dreaming your co-evils

[fast anchor]

you only need to do that d1

then just dream good players as roles you heard them privately claim earlier that day 🤩

[gusty bear]

alternatively, "dream" someone as the mutant

[next marlin]

I saw a game once where the mutant bluffing dreamer immediately picked a random player and went "oh, I dreamt you as mutant/cerenovus"

"...I'm the Klutz."
"I'D RATHER YOU CLAIMED CERENOVUS"

[fast anchor]

Why on god's green earth is the mutant bluffing dreamer

[gusty bear]

i need to do that to the person i'm cerelocking

[fast anchor]

Bluff Savant like a normal person

[next marlin]

Some people go full method

[fast anchor]

or at least do the snake charmer thing of math/tc/oracle

they're not hard

[gusty bear]

oracle gets a 1 n2

[ivory ridge]

The method is losing I fear

[gusty bear]

easy

[next marlin]

you can't do that as snake charmer though because every single game has one of those in the bluffs

[ivory ridge]

Just bluff savant ffs 😭

[next marlin]

you have to bluff mutant bluffing sage bluffing mutant bluffing savant

[cold veldt]

It’s the most fun you can possibly have in botc

[cold veldt]

easier said than done online

[fast anchor]

maybe not online but it's very viable irl

[next marlin]

mutant backwards solves from the fang gu screaming crying throwing up

[gusty bear]

i am not comprehending what that means

[next marlin]

the joke is that the oracle 1 n2 is 100% correct

[gusty bear]

oh i see

[next marlin]

(I'm assuming fang gu because mutant is definitionally less likely to be in a vigor game)

[gusty bear]

there's also the much funnier alternative of the mutant neighbouring the no dashii

[next marlin]

mutant thinks it's vortox based on town info, claims oracle 1 as an easy non-suspicious vortox fallback, is next to the no dashii

[gusty bear]

the no dashii complains to the st like "i told you i didn't wanna push vortox worlds here"

[next marlin]

maybe the other outsider died n2

[gusty bear]

i have that one vati no dashii game in my head, but instead of a seam forgetting their actual info it's a mutant who's pushing on info that makes vati look like the vortox

[next marlin]

I would still somehow manage to win this game probably

[gusty bear]

by getting snakecharmed in f4 :)

[next marlin]

look if my minion's a pithag I'm never outing a snakecharm

even in f4

there's still time to turn the new demon into the fang gu

[gusty bear]

making notes

[next marlin]

snv as a script is fundamentally balanced around the idea that the people who best understand how to push their info on it are also the people who will throw games to become the demon

[gusty bear]

if i'm the sc, solve whether there's a pithag before charming vati

[next marlin]

if there's a pithag we can win together
if there isn't I can win by myself
win win

[fast anchor]

bluffing ph as the witch to vati my demon in case he gets snakecharmed

[next marlin]

the witchkill on the new demon:

[gusty bear]

axo pithagged the et into the witch, trust

[fast anchor]

If you think I'm cursing anyone other than a dead body think again

even when im just playing witch normally i have a penchant of just sinking the curse and bluffing some other minion in play the whole game

the best way to use witch is not at all

[next marlin]

it's a strategy for a reason

"just get a kill every day instead" yeah and then the kills are on the good twin and the guy in a seam no with your demon

[fast anchor]

why is it always the guy in a seam no with the demon too

omw to selfcurse after hearing a seam no on me & someone else

[next marlin]

because one of witch's underrated strengths is that it encourages people to sit on their info (which is worse than sharing it) in hopes they can bait a witchkill into the hidden seam no or hidden sage ping

so by the time the seam no comes out the witch has already been camping the sage in it for 3 days

[gusty bear]

Curse your demon who’s in a seam no with the good twin

[next marlin]

anyway, something something manifesto

(that was such a good post)

[fast anchor]

https://tenor.com/view/bowing-thank-you-tom-and-jerry-take-a-bow-chasing-gif-20784169

[ivory ridge]

snv as a script is fundamentally balanced on how many custom script can be created with its roster

[karmic rose]

I'm fond of , a fake widow ping causes BH to doubt info and a real widow can find the evil TF and also poison the BH

[ivory ridge]

widow never poison bh

[feral snow]

only investigator :)

[ivory ridge]

grrrrr

[gray ridge]

evil turn +

BH evil turn has a lot of fun possibilities for the evil team and building games but the other part of the ability is so boringg

[karmic slate]

Ironically that seems like a bad combo to me because the Widow can find the extra evil and poison the Bounty Hunter 😭

[cold veldt]

it’s a far too optimal widow choice

[fast anchor]

hmmm, non-b3?

Ojo/Damsel [Ojo being able to kill the real one in a doubleclaim makes it good at finding Damsels]
General/Heretic [By observing town vibe they can usually figure out if a Heretic is in play or not from their info]
Preacher/Boomdandy ["hey, i preached them so we're okay to execute!" is fun to bluff and also interesting from the preacher side]

[next marlin]

BH is a pain and a half because it does an incredibly interesting thing for scriptbuilding that is, technically speaking, the undesired downside to a townsfolk ability, which in turn is an oppressive and lame ability

I like widow/bh because I am fully transparent with myself and recognize that I use bh solely as an ST-targeted mez

However, this is not what bh is meant to be, and the thing it is meant to be is a different kind of bad to the kind of bad that ST-targeted mez is

I really want Artemis's Outsider-BH-by-way-of-Puzzlemaster1 good character is evil and known by the Demon. If you correctly publicly guess (once) who they are, learn the evil team that night.

[fast anchor]

"learn the evil team" as in which players are evil or which evil characters are in play

[next marlin]

I always parsed it as #1

(#2 is a bit unfortunate if the minions are at all loud)