secret thing

[cursive cobalt]

That’s about all I have to add

Huntsman being able to turn any Outsider is pretty broken

Since the Damsel is actually in the minority of being outsiders who have a strong incentive to hide

Barring maybe the Mutant, any other outsider would gladly out to a Huntsman first thing, making their job too easy

Sadly accurate

You’re good, I don’t mind

[flat lintel]

I mean, it does for what it’s intended to do.

If you find the Damsel, good has a huge lead

Like I was the Damsel, Void found me

Good was like WINNING by that point

[cursive cobalt]

The Huntsman is a slightly above average Townsfolk about 5% of the time

And hog garbage the other 95%

Mind you, it’s not even that powerful at its ceiling

I can name at least a dozen other Townsfolk I’d rather have over a successful Huntsman

[flat lintel]

well yeah. It probably just needs another clause like Mayor. Mayor would be 5% powerful without the death evasion cuz getting to f3 would be impossible

[cursive cobalt]

Grandmother being one of them.

[flat lintel]

Grandmother is great

Like maybe a clause of death evasion or minions becoming townsfolk

[cursive cobalt]

It’s extremely depressing that as the Huntsman, you basically are just a Grandmother who has to go on a tedious quest just to earn a grandchild

[cursive cobalt]

What may that other clause be?

Death evasion doesn’t help an extremely weak opg role in the same way it does the Mayor

I think the Huntsman effect is actually pretty unique

And I like the concept a lot

But just because it can be good doesn’t mean that it realistically will be

And this isn’t addressing the abuse a ST can do with it

[flat lintel]

Godfather outsider clause?

[cursive cobalt]

Yeah

The stupid ass +1 or +0 outsider

I hate it

Not only do you get to be useless

But you get to make another potentially useful townsfolk useless too

Thankfully at least it’s not forced

[flat lintel]

Wait dont diss on godfather

Its the goat of outsider modification

[cursive cobalt]

I’m dissing on Huntsman

GF is the best outsider mod minion

[flat lintel]

I mean like learning which outsiders are in play

[cursive cobalt]

Oh

That’s weird

[flat lintel]

Or at least the #

[cursive cobalt]

That kinda steps on the Librarian’s niche

And also doesn’t relate to the OG ability in any way

[flat lintel]

I’d argue that’s fine considering Noble and Investigator

Minions become Townsfolk until you die?

[cursive cobalt]

I think roles are best designed when they stick to one thing

[cursive cobalt]

At this point you’re just homebrewing lol

This would be an interesting ability

For a homebrew

[flat lintel]

Its on the same olive branch

I mean a hybrid of Huntsman and Poppy

[cursive cobalt]

“Minions have not-in-play Townsfolk abilities instead of their own. You start knowing which.”

[flat lintel]

But the best solution for Huntsman is you don’t want to storytell it, don’t add it to the script?

[cursive cobalt]

I mean

Sure

I don’t put Huntsman on a lot of scripts anymore

I used to pair it whenever I put the Damsel on

But I don’t anymore

Because every time I saw it in practice it was a depressing experience

Tinker is tied with Snitch for the most boring outsider for me

Mind you, it’s not as bad as Snitch since its niche is actually somewhat interesting

After you die you want to examine the context of the game to see if you were a likely target or not

Which is somewhat interesting sometimes, but not enough to make up for the fact that you’re the equivalent of a villager most of the time

Especially since it’s home script does such a good job of making said death analysis futile

With all the different causes

[flat lintel]

bmr is fire wdym

[cursive cobalt]

BMR consists of 80% goated roles and 20% problem children

I think the part it nails best is the Townsfolk

I really like every BMR townsfolk in the context of their home script

It falters in some other areas though

[tall raft]

The issue with huntsman is it’s hard to find the damsel with 1 ability

What if it gains some sort of info

Or can guess again under some condition

[cursive cobalt]

Each night huntsman fixes this

[tall raft]

It's way to strong though

[cursive cobalt]

Is it?

Huntsman when it procs is just a slightly upgraded Grandmother

Who's "grandchild" can't do anything for half the game

[tall raft]

Very upgraded

Should turn an outsider into a funtioning townsfolk

Confirms themselves

Confirms the outsider

[fast anchor]

that is also what the grandmother does without adding an outsider

and a lose con

[tall raft]

Huntsman shouldn't add an outsider

Also grandmother doesn't remove an outsider

[cursive cobalt]

Sure, it does this. In my opinion, it still doesn't beat the super early confirmation chain the Grandmother gets, but it is a benefit nonetheless.

But when you factor in the fact that even an each night Huntsman will often fail to turn a Damsel consistently across games

I think its fine

Though ymmv

I guess

[lucid crag]

You want me to not get executed, not die, not get information, and sometimes not have an impact on the game.

(magician probably too but I've not been it)

I'd rather be Butler since at least then I have info on the outsider count

Or snitch even

I don't wanna worry about living lol

[flat lintel]

imo, if damsel is each night, it should make it so damsel loses its ability and learns this

not become a townsfolk

[sweet birch]

Honestly I think that's still too weak

The fundamental problem with Huntsman is that all it does is introduce a lose-con

And like 1% of the time you get a TF

If all it can do is neutralize the lose-con it already introduced just by existing then it becomes a substantially worse NWM

[sage atlas]

2/25: What is your least favorite character to play against as good/evil?

[tacit fiber]

I love to play in a LM as a minion

but the issue is that there are too many 50/50s in f3

[tall raft]

It doesn't though

Or it shouldn't

Everyone agrees +1 outsider huntsman is bad

But it doesn't mean +0 outsider huntsman is bad

[sweet birch]

+0 huntsman is also bad

Even if, theoretically, that damsel would exist anyway, the huntsman is, in most instances, an extra blank token for town

It's not like damsels believe it when people claim huntsman to them

[sweet birch]

Not a coincidence that these are also my least favorite to ST

for me

At least when it's LM you kinda know

Poisoner's presence on script seriously borks worldbuilding regardless of if or not it's in play

(Assuming your other minions are quiet, anyways)

[tacit fiber]

yeah means the game is 100% socials

which is interesting bc i've died ineffectually everytime im poisoner

[signal holly]

poisoner... imo really depends on what the other minions are

it works best with other quietish minions that nonetheless have huge worldbuilding implications so that building worlds depends on which minions are in play

TB is a great environment for it
on customs... it really depends

[tacit fiber]

I don't like, I do like tbh

makes the poison have use rather than truely not knowing

[signal holly]

Goblin is the only other minion off the top of my head that I think fits a Poisoner minion suite

everything else is either too loud or has too much potential to just be insignificant for worldbuilding

[fresh shard]

Poisoner tends to be annoying on customs but not on its own script, I think because a poisoner on TB is generally detectable and on other scripts it's often functionally an unlimited use Fibbin; I don't think I've ever seen a poisoner's presence actually get solved on any custom

Given I play mostly base 3, I think I'm gonna go with Cerenovus as the most annoying evil (in the bag every time it's on the script, very swingy, have lost a game to Cerenovus breaking madness to get demon off the block on last day), and Tea Lady as most annoying good because it closes so many worldbuilding options if you're sat next to it as the Demon.

[cursive cobalt]

as evil, and as good

[copper quail]

as evil / and as good

[cursive cobalt]

Minstrel isn’t so bad as long as you’re slick with your timing

Lycan is a good shout though

It sucks

So does OG

Idk why it slipped my mind

[vale oxide]

[heady cradle]

can have as much of, if not more of, an impact.

Flashes back to #1208027944920944650

[cursive cobalt]

2/26: What’s the best social deduction game you’ve played that isnt BOtC?

[shrewd cloud]

I had some really fun games of One Night Werewolf at Clocktower Con. Honestly though I haven’t played many social deduction games since getting into BoTC

So for me, most fun I’ve had with a social deduction game that isn’t BoTC is either One Night Werewolf or The Thing

[spiral pollen]

Avalon

avalon is my favourite non BOTC game I'd say

it's just so good

[valid garden]

One night werewolf, yeah

[heady cradle]

Avalon is great; my problem is that my gaming group has played so much of it, they have their own microgame and it goes on for fucking ages

[copper quail]

One night werewolf as well

[tall raft]

Two Rooms and a Boom

[sweet birch]

https://tenor.com/view/among-us-sus-yhk-among-twerk-among-us-twerk-gif-23335803

[fast anchor]

say sike right now

[sweet birch]

I don't have enough experience with other games :P

[flat lintel]

among us 🔥

axo just missing out

[tacit fiber]

among us

Axo doesnt see it

[vale oxide]

among us cuz it's the only one

[fast anchor]

anyway,

one night ultimate werewolf for overall fun times
quest if i absolutely do not care about the quality of the game that is played
town of salem (either one) if i hate myself that day and just want to mald

[I am not good at any of these games]

i've always wanted to try 2raab

[cursive cobalt]

Town of Salem is the “turn your brain off and click buttons” sdg

It’s not fun being the only sane man amidst 14 trolls

So might as well not try

[tacit fiber]

yeah Town of Salem is really fun

...

If you don't have a thrower in play, so 0%

[abstract cosmos]

27/2: When Village Idiot was released, there were talks about having "positive jinxes", similar to the current pithag + village idiots one. Any thoughts on potential positive jinxes?

[fast anchor]

Does Cerenovus + Goblin count as a "positive jinx"? I think that one's neat

[fresh shard]

I'd like as many of these as possible to be codified as base rules on final release

[heady cradle]

What about Gambler and Lycan? That feels like a relatively positive jinx?

[abstract cosmos]

I think Cere + Goblin and Gambler + Lycan are postive jinxes, but I think in the showcase video, they were talking about turning other jinxes into positive jinxes, so my question was more theoretical "what current jinx would you like to see as a positive one"

[fast anchor]

-jinx

[digital drum]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/904250103588597790/1208671058530672651/jinx_rules_a_-_k.png?ex=65e421a4&is=65d1aca4&hm=9bcad64e501a342f421a9fdfa06bcec77f2e561213cc74b6b57fdf91ff962bb2&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/904250103588597790/1208671060103266354/jinx_rules_l_-_z.png?ex=65e421a4&is=65d1aca4&hm=86713cf229937d76d3e919c918e642a2aaa9e298af72d06d3a714d96c32bc5e2&

[fast anchor]

Spy/Widow + Heretic: The Heretic might register as another Outsider to the Spy/Widow. Outsiders might register as the Heretic to the Spy/Widow.

It would be funny I think

[tacit fiber]

hm

: The alchemist can start knowing the opposing characters in play instead of gaining the spy ability?

[tacit fiber]

does this extend to

[cursive cobalt]

By this do you mean

Thoughts on the current existing ones

Or ideas for new ones

Or what

[abstract cosmos]

new ones

or current ones that you might want to see changed

[tacit fiber]

If the is chosen, you turn into the ?

[cursive cobalt]

I’m not the biggest fan of the way most positive jinxes are executed, but sure I’ll give it a shot

: if the Poppy Grower is in play, the Spy does not see the Grimoire, but instead starts knowing all in-play characters.

: if the Poppy Grower is in play, the Widow does not see the Grimoire, but instead starts knowing all in-play characters and chooses to poison one.

I’ve seen these bootlegged over the normal jinxes before

And I do like their implementation

[fast anchor]

I actually like that jinx

The Damsel starts knowing there’s no spy/widow

So if someone claims a widow ping they’re lying

[tacit fiber]

I mean sure

[cursive cobalt]

Hopefully not

A Spy knowing that one of two players is the Damsel right off the bat is

[tacit fiber]

but you have no way of actually outing that info

[cursive cobalt]

😐

[fast anchor]

Die first

Or get it out through trusted players

It’s a fun jinx

[tacit fiber]

fair

[fast anchor]

since you have info you have to work to act on

[tacit fiber]

: "If the thinks they are the and guesses the with their ability, the 's team loses"

[cursive cobalt]

: If the Organ Grinder has their ability, the Flowergirl chooses a player and learns if they voted before learning their information.

[cursive cobalt]

…you realize this would apply to every single Marionette, right

As long as Huntsman is on the script

Any Mario choosing any Damsel causes the Damsel to lose

[tacit fiber]

ok fixed

thoughts on the actual jinx RAI?

[cursive cobalt]

It’s funny

[tacit fiber]

thx

[cursive cobalt]

But also kind of sad because Huntsmen already have it rough

This is just kicking it when it’s down

[tacit fiber]

at least you can hope you win

instead of the mediorce reward that the huntsman alr

[cursive cobalt]

Damsels will have even less incentive to out to Huntsman claims

[tacit fiber]

the mario can guess the damsel alr

like as the public minion guess

[cursive cobalt]

Hmm, true

Seems interesting

[tacit fiber]

: The might add a duplicate outsider

I like this more than the current jinx

[cursive cobalt]

That’s very janky logically speaking

How do you run that in person

[tacit fiber]

buy a second copy

🤷

[cursive cobalt]

: Legion does not register as a Minion to the Damsel unless they claim to be Legion.

Note that this also means they don’t learn of any potential damsel until they out legion (either via guess or beforehand)

Makes Damsel in Legion more fair

[tacit fiber]

: If the chooses the , they keep their ability but votes for them count no matter what

[cursive cobalt]

…but they keep their ability, right?

Otherwise this changes nothing

When it comes to jinx wording, you have to be really specific

[tacit fiber]

they keep the secret voting

[cursive cobalt]

It’s like programming

Look at the Mayor Leviathan jinx

Absolutely horrid

[tacit fiber]

:If the host dies by execution (ending the game), the lleech doesn't die but loses their ability and you play for 1 more day. If a player is then executed, their team loses.

[cursive cobalt]

That’s how the jinx is meant to work I think

It’s just worded extremely poorly

[tacit fiber]

currently just makes the host an extra life right?

actualy

yeah youa re right

[cursive cobalt]

: The Mastermind keeps their ability if killed by the Vigormortis.

: If a Scarlet Woman was killed by the Vigormortis, a Minion becomes a Vigormortis the first time it dies.

For the first one, they keep it even if the vigormortis dies

Because the djinn is the one that’s allowing them to keep it

Not the vigor

[heady cradle]

Does Gossip have a Gambler-Lycanthrope-esque jinx?

No it does not — it absolutely should, imo

[cursive cobalt]

Gossip is weird

I tried making a jinx for it before

But it didn’t work due to the finicky nature of both abilities

: If the Gossip makes a true statement and the Lycanthrope is alive, the Lycanthrope is drunk until dawn.

I… don’t particularly like this, but it’s the best I could come up with

It keeps the gossip extra death mechanic

But also makes it so the Lycan suspects who they hit

It’s not good still

[mild notch]

~~ Does that mean that if the Vigormortis becomes a different demon or a different player, the dead Mastermind continues to keep its ability? ~~

[cursive cobalt]

I suppose RAW, yes… that’s how it would work

That’s probably fine though

[vale oxide]

Ooh fun custom jinxes

[fresh shard]

28/2: Which character do you most enjoy playing against as good or as evil?

[cursive cobalt]

Vizier (lmao evil has a negative utility minion, laugh at them)

If I were to be fair though

I like playing in potential Widow games

And as evil, facing a Savant, General, Magician, Minstrel, or Pacifist is interesting because those roles force you to approach the game differently then you otherwise would

PG takes things a little too far though

I don’t like PG

[fresh shard]

PG and Lycan feel like cheating to me, no fun playing in a game where one team has essentially no agency

Personally I like playing against Spy, especially in teensies

[cursive cobalt]

PG and Lycan aren’t great because they offer very strict counterplay potential

[fresh shard]

Agree with Savant and Pacifist when run well

[cursive cobalt]

I never enjoy playing in games where I’m carried by the ST

Because they just feel scummy to win

[tacit fiber]

honestly, different from most people, I find good characters as means to an end

I will worldbuild and sus people out

[cursive cobalt]

Psychopath is

Not as scary as people make it out to be

It’s Vizier done right

But even Vizier done right still carries some massive drawbacks for evil

[vale oxide]

[cursive cobalt]

Are you really playing against outsiders as evil?

They exist to help you

[vale oxide]

I guess...

[cursive cobalt]

Any outsider (that’s not named Golem or Heretic or Moonchild) would be good to play against

[vale oxide]

I'll say then

[tacit fiber]

Heretic is amazing to play against

[tall raft]

[sweet birch]

(Laugh at this user they can't kill immediately)

(Laugh at this other user their info is helpful to us early)

[copper quail]

as good because the demon can't move and -1 outsider and if they want to use their ability they need to reduce evil team vote power

as evil because the role starts to be useful only when half of the player are dead + the demon knows who they are, as demon you often have the time to kill a potential Choirboy before the King gets info. And it's only if they are sober ofc 😅

[heady cradle]

I prefer a droisoned Choirboy to a droisoned King 😄, especially if you give King as a demon bluff

[lucid crag]

personally I wish the fear vizier jinx wasn't there so we could have nightmare scripts

💯

[indigo osprey]

Fear-Vizier jinx (upgrade): If the vizier is alive, all know who the vizier chooses. lol

(doesn't work)

[pliant grail]

Pukka can kill immediately though?

[fast anchor]

It has to pick its target a night before, so they get no kill if the poisoned player is executed first

[pliant grail]

Ah

I understand now sorry

Anyway mine is

I love the amount of social read in the stand off situation here, and being on the inside and trying to fix the social read to the way I want it

[cursive cobalt]

2/29: What’s a seemingly unconventional playstyle/strategy that you find is better than it seems?

[spiral pollen]

hardclaiming honestly to everyone who you talk to on day 1

hardclaiming isn't as bad as some people think because statistically any given player you talk to is good

It's easier to build trust that way

[cursive cobalt]

I see this done pretty often

[spiral pollen]

and easier to bluff as evil

[cursive cobalt]

Though of course it depends which role we’re talking about

[spiral pollen]

anything really

[spiral pollen]

maybe but I'm not used to it

[fresh shard]

Asking weird questions instead of doing 3 for 3s

[spiral pollen]

someone with an empath 2 on me once managed to trap me in a private conversation the whole of day 1

[fresh shard]

More memorable, and sometimes people will answer relating to their actual role instead of their bluff

[spiral pollen]

which was fun

[flat lintel]

Lying to everyone.

It sounds so counterproductive but if you have a good grasp on the game and know social cues most of the time, you can pull it off effectively and lead to game winning info

Don’t be afraid to bluff, but also make sure you know when to stop

In the heat of a day, it might be hard.

[tacit fiber]

last time I saw it used, it was in TB, I was the with a who claimed 0 next to me, safe to say, evil won

[flat lintel]

Depends on how effective it is

[north totem]

I made 2 demons

[flat lintel]

Pretty fun.

[fresh shard]

1/3: Specifying whether you're a more mechanical or social player in your own view, what's your first impression of the Yaggababble?

[tacit fiber]

Mechanical, interesting a demon that can anonymously cause deaths, allows one to "bluff" normally unbluffable roles ( , )

[valid garden]

Mechanical, and I like it!

[flat lintel]

Social, hate it, why is it not a minion?

[tacit fiber]

european detected

[fresh shard]

You got me :p

Bri'ish

[tacit fiber]

WHAT IS GOOD FOOD 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 I LOVE COLONIZING AND STEALING ARTIFACTS 🗣️ 🔥 🗣️ 🔥 🗣️ 🔥 🗣️ 🔥 🗣️ 🔥 🗣️ 🔥 🗣️ 🔥 🗣️ 🔥 🗣️ 🔥 🗣️ 🔥 🗣️ 🔥 🗣️ 🔥

[fresh shard]

I'm not like the others, I make bad artifacts and steal food

Also answering my own question, mechanical player and I'm intrigued by Yaggababble theorycrafting for how it operates differently. Didn't like the leaked version but this is better. Probably something I'd enjoy watching a game with more than playing one, but that's fine, not every character needs to be for me

[sweet birch]

Mechanical, and I think it's one of those that'll work in live more than text

[cloud plover]

Mechanical. Would refuse to play it in person. Sounds like a laugh and a half over text

[cursive cobalt]

I'm both mechanical and social, but lean more towards mechanical on average due to me favoring scripts with more mechanical parts to them.

Anyway, my first impressions of Yagga is that it's a good demon that works until people start to optimize it. I think it would be better if that optimization potential was somehow circumvented, but as it is, it's still okay. I've yet to see it tested in game though... so my opinions on that might change in the near future.

[fast anchor]

Both, it seems hilarious if you’re in a pre-established group but not for pickup games online

[heady cradle]

Social, but I play over text. I can imagine a lot of copy-pasting Discord into wordcounter.net and checking phrases

Playing Yaggababble in person would be a bit much

[night ingot]

As a 60%mechanical 40% social player

I love yagga and i cant wait to be it

running it is extremely funny

very very very cool character

[fresh shard]

4/3: What's your favourite character to put on a custom script?

[night ingot]

For me its probably either savant or fisherman

I love the roles that give the ST full choice over what info the players get

they get unique info every game

it makes everything fresh

[vale oxide]

Gossip or Pit Hag or Po

Or all of em >:D

[sweet birch]

Noble my beloved

[fast anchor]

General is underrated af, give my star baby some love

[flat lintel]

my favorite experimental tends to be the exp demons.

they provide their own twist on the game which is fun to play

[tall raft]

fish

[cursive cobalt]

Savant from a “this will spice things up” ideology

Seamstress and Klutz from a practicality perspective (they work almost everywhere)

General, Pacifist, and Shugenja off personal bias (oh and Savant too)

For evil characters

I’m biased towards DA and Cere

I tend to throw Assassin on a lot because I like multi death scripts

Widow is also really neat

I think one crucial aspect of scriptbuilding is knowing which characters work on which scripts

I really can’t name if a character is good or not for any given arbitrary script

All characters work somewhere

And almost none of them work everywhere

[sage atlas]

goblin is very fun to play as so i like to try to put it on my scripts

[rose vault]

Good: Amnesiac, Savant, Politician.
Evil: Lil' Monsta, Widow.

[fast anchor]

idk, LM presents too many headaches to put on a lot of scripts

[sweet birch]

LM pairs so poorly with so many things

All night death protection roles, for instance

[past kayak]

yeah having the ST decide the night deaths is a big distortion of how the game plays and it pairs poorly with a lot of things

[heady cradle]

If 5 stars, yeah

[heady cradle]

Clock, Chef, and Shu tend to work most everywhere, as does Noble and Knight

Straightforward YSKs are rather helpful

[sweet birch]

Obligatory

Knight/Vortox

🤮

[cursive cobalt]

5 star General is best General

[sweet birch]

Genuinely I don't understand what meaning there even is to infer from three-star general

[cursive cobalt]

It’s useful going into F3

Where it’s info can single-handedly collapse a worldview

But that’s about it.

Detecting big swing only isn’t very good.

5 star General keeps the rampup potential of the role while also just being more versatile and nuanced overall

[cursive cobalt]

Clock is debatable

It doesn’t work well with outed minions

Because it’s too powerful in relation to one specific data point

Shugenja and Chef are more balanced around utility with multiple datapoints, which lend themselves better to stuff like this

[cursive cobalt]

2/5: You’re given the chance to add one of each character type (1 Townsfolk, Outsider, Minion, and Demon) to the otherwise vanilla game of Werewolf. Which roles do you choose to add?

[vale oxide]

Atheist Heretic Organ Grinder Riot

[cursive cobalt]

Riot when the Heretic dies and flips Heretic

https://tenor.com/view/vamos-ver-team-fortress2-tf2-soldier-team-fortress2soldier-gif-16871755

See

It’s an interesting consideration; Werewolf at its core works on a completely foreign set of principles relative to Clocktower

[cloud plover]

Po, Goblin, Tinker, Exorcist

Honestly this is a really difficult question because so many roles need support to be good? And choosing just one of each type just doesn't leave a lot of room for that 😅

At least going with some additional death characters gets the pain over with quicker XD

[fresh shard]

What do you define as vanilla Werewolf? Villagers and werewolves only, or can some roles like Seer be included?

[cursive cobalt]

Pure vanilla

(For the sake of argument, assume that Minion/Demons replace vanilla Werewolves, Townsfolk/Outsiders replace normal Villagers, and the nightkill mechanic is replaced with the Demon's kill(s))

[sharp violet]

FT, Saint, Harpy, Po

[fresh shard]

I think I'd keep things pretty simple: either FT or Village Idiot, Saint, Scarlet Woman and Imp

If I went VI, I can also see a case for Vortox

[severe raven]

VI is actually a good idea. I was going to say Amnesiac, Klutz, Witch, Al-Hadikhia.

[hot orchid]

Shabaloth Harpy Saint Atheist

[sweet birch]

3/7/24: What is your ideal Yagababble phrase?

[past kayak]

"...but that's just me."

[vale oxide]

"is that the Yaggababble phrase lmao"

[sweet birch]

"vibe check"

[fast anchor]

“I’m not the Widow”

[indigo osprey]

"If he is evil then" (I love my long monologues where I am building different evil teams)

[fresh shard]

"or I'm drunk or poisoned"

[oak ice]

“No, that doesn’t work…”

Alternatively, “Oh, yeah? You think I’m the Yagababble? Why don’t you execute me then?”

[vale oxide]

"I claim Psychopath and axe..." And the ST immediately kills the player I "axed"

[abstract cosmos]

• claims psychopath and "axes" someone
• get executed
• no roshambo
• :(

[cloud plover]

Hmm

[fresh shard]

Does a drunk psychopath still play roshambo

[cloud plover]

Oooooooh, it's part of the ability, so maybe not?

Alternatively: there is no rule saying the ST cannot play Roshambo with random people just for lols. Gabba gets exed, but if there's a SW in play, maybe ST plays roshambo, frames demon as Psycho, and game continues

As a concept, extremely funny, but my brain already hurts

[fresh shard]

As I understand it RAW doesn't permit that but it's a totally reasonable house rule

[tall raft]

You can’t the same way you can’t announce it’s a leviathan game

[tall raft]

No

[cloud plover]

awww, sadge

[sweet birch]

Actually wait, "I'm the lunatic. Yes, again."

[rose vault]

What my group would do is allow the "Psychopath" to play roshambo, and then just ignore the result and kill the player even if they win.

[cloud plover]

Yes, exactly this

If the result of RPS doesn't match the outcome, then everyone instantly knows what's up, but if it does? Glorious glorious bluffs

[tall raft]

You’re not allowed to as it’s a game mechanic

You can, but it’s 100% a house rule

Same with announcements of things not in play

[plain torrent]

"Good people of Ravenswood Bluff"

[flat lintel]

"I'm good"

[severe raven]

I used "a Legion game"

Other ideas: "not in play", "hard claiming", "if I'm drunk", "3 for 3", "in the Noble pings", "a <DEMON_NAME> game", ||"Daughter of Nox"||

[tall raft]

||Daughter of Nox can only be named once per person, so after that it's just like having any other characters name. I do like that it gives a reason to say it early game though||

[severe raven]

||You would still discuss who said it. You can probably get away with "Alice named Daughter of Nox last on D2".||

[fresh shard]

8/3: what's the biggest misplay you've made, which wasn't a mechanical mistake, as an experienced player?

[fast anchor]

N1: dreamed the Heretic correctly and told them to bluff Artist since they could fake-ask a question about info good already knew later in the game

Artist was a Demon bluff and the evil team figured it out by F5 🫠

[dense moat]

I’m Puzzlemaster. I find a Shugenja pointing in my direction. I think they are a great choice to guess. Their info seems wrong to me. I publicly mention I want to do this.

Then the Politician comes out loudly pushing to be guessed as an Alchemist Poisoner and I fall for it. Worse, town kills my “not a Demon” pick then me. The four people playing for evil do a clean sweep

That one makes me especially frustrated because my instincts were right (drunk Shug) and I didn’t trust myself enough

[sage atlas]

Don't know why I wanted to but I pithagged a lunatic into a snake charmer when our fang gu was going to jump to them

[indigo osprey]

Solving the game on day 1 while forgetting there was a marionette on the script. The marionette was me. (Solving = narrowing the demon down to 3 potential players out of 11, one of which was my n eighbor.)

[sharp violet]

“Wait, what’s going on?”

[copper quail]

I executed myself on d3 in a Lleech game after asking my artist question I was sure I was the host, talk with a cannibal and tell them they can get my ability so I was confident with my execution
I was the host yes but also the marionette so I lost 🙈

[sage atlas]

I'd consider that kinda on the storyteller honestly

[dusky minnow]

9/3: What kinds of questions do you enjoy answering the most in this channel?

[vale oxide]

This one 🥹

[rose vault]

Picked the outed Lunatic as Fang Gu. Somehow they survived until final 3, but evil still lost.

[flat lintel]

I yippyapped more than I should've which gave away the win for the good team.

[flat lintel]

I don't know..

[sweet birch]

I was the fortune teller who checked my neighbors, got a no. My neighbor told me he was the demon and I was his marionette. He also told me the other minion was the guy who just got executed without much of a fight. I proceeded to out this guy. I was the marionette. We lost 🫠

[sinful ingot]

Vizier Investigator and Butler Organ Grinder

[lucid crag]

March 12th 2024: " , kiss marry kill"

[sweet birch]

Kiss the golem
Marry the boomdandy (arson is FUN)
Kill the Plague doctor so I don't get plague

[fast anchor]

kill the PD so the st gets the vizier ability
kiss the boomdandy, too volatile for a full relationship
marry the golem (we love hard confirmation 🤩)

[tall raft]

Kiss the Golem (looks cute)
Marry the Plague Doctor (cures plague so must be nice/have a lot of money)
Kill the boomdandy (is a dandy and I don’t like fashion/killing isn’t executing)

[heady cradle]

Kiss the Golem (On the cheek — they deserve some love.)
Marry the Boomdandy (An effeminate man who likes explosives? Sounds like an incredible platonic husband.)
Kill the Plague Doctor (God will like me.)

[dense moat]

Kiss the Boomdandy (I'm not getting exploded) Marry the Golem (they need love and support of the platonic variety), Kill the Plauge Doctor (creepy)

Also no one wanted to kill the Golem lol

[sharp violet]

Kill the Golem - gaslight them into nominating themselves
Kiss the Plague Doctor - they deserve something for their work keeping us safe from the plague
Marry the Boomdandy - I can fix her (press x to doubt)

[heady cradle]

3/13/2024: What are your recs for lizards? Would love character and role for player submissions along with fun ST ideas.

[dense moat]

Areyou asking for abilities or Role/Character combinations? Like an Al Had Outsider or an Al-Had OUtsider ability?

[vale oxide]

Both I think

[fleet night]

Townsfolk: Bootlegger
Outsider: Bootlegger
Minion: Bootlegger
Demon: Bootlegger

👢🦵🦠

[dense moat]

3/14: Kiss Marry Kill for

Who’ll it be?

[tall raft]

Kill the farmer because their spirit will live on
Marry the sage for a quiet life
Kiss the ravenskeeper, only one left

[lucid crag]

ditto ^

[sweet birch]

Marry the farmer because they can still grow food during the apocalypse

Kiss the sage because kissing the ravenkeeper would be unhygienic

[cursive cobalt]

I like how this community has picked up the habit of associating any kind of animal motifs directly as said character

[valid garden]

I think we (My group) agreed that Ravens are actually the currency of Ravenswood Bluff & therefore the Ravenkeeper is a banker

[cursive cobalt]

When they die at night do they just audit someone

[fast anchor]

kiss farmer
marry ravenkeeper (bird 🙂)
kill sage (their info will narrow down the demon 🙏)

[dense moat]

To be fair, Ravenkeeper flavor text does have them releasing birds. So maybe it’d be a bit unhygienic even if you kissed a human Ravenkeeper

[sharp violet]

Godfather (Townsfolk): You start knowing that 1 of 2 players is a particular Outsider. When you learn that they died, that night choose an alive player: if good, they die, but they are the only player that can die tonight.
Or in other words: You have the Librarian ability. When they die, you gain the Lycanthrope ability for that night.
Also, https://discord.com/channels/569683781800296501/1064690145904840744

[sweet birch]

Well I'm assuming he touches the ravens a lot. Probably touches his own face afterwards

[sage atlas]

3/15: Explain your favorite character in only emojis

[fast anchor]

🪑

[lean kestrel]

ooh ooh i got one

[fresh shard]

🗨️

[shrewd cloud]

🍯

(It’s not Magician lol)

[sharp violet]

3️⃣ ⏺️ 1️⃣ 4️⃣ 1️⃣ 5️⃣ 9️⃣ 2️⃣ 6️⃣ 5️⃣ 3️⃣ 5️⃣ 8️⃣ 9️⃣ 7️⃣ 9️⃣ 3️⃣ 2️⃣ 3️⃣ 8️⃣ 4️⃣ 6️⃣ 2️⃣ 6️⃣ 4️⃣ 3️⃣ 3️⃣ 8️⃣ 3️⃣ 2️⃣ 7️⃣ 9️⃣ 5️⃣ 0️⃣ 2️⃣ 8️⃣ 8️⃣ 4️⃣ 1️⃣ 9️⃣ 7️⃣ 1️⃣ 6️⃣ 9️⃣ 3️⃣ 9️⃣ 9️⃣ 3️⃣ 7️⃣ 5️⃣ 1️⃣ 0️⃣ 5️⃣ 8️⃣ 2️⃣ 0️⃣ 9️⃣ 7️⃣ 4️⃣ 9️⃣ 4️⃣ 4️⃣ 5️⃣ 9️⃣ 2️⃣ 3️⃣ 0️⃣ 7️⃣ 8️⃣ 1️⃣ 6️⃣ 4️⃣ 0️⃣ 6️⃣ 2️⃣ 8️⃣ 6️⃣ 2️⃣ 0️⃣ 8️⃣ 9️⃣ 9️⃣

[cursive cobalt]

🕊️

alternatively

♿ ✅ ❌
⭐ ⭐ 🪖 ⭐ ⭐

🧠 🗣️ 🗣️ 🗣️

[mild notch]

🙊 👉 👿
🟦 🔂 🟦
😈 ‼️ 🙈

[fresh shard]

Ok this one is throwing me because both of my first guesses were characters I know you don't like

(VI and professor)

[fresh shard]

DoN?

[cursive cobalt]

Could be

OG points at Imp... who then swaps... and now the Imp is making the OG close their eyes?

Idk

[mild notch]

|| It's only a monkey for the sake of expressiveness. It would be something else if more relevant emojis had different faces like that ||

[sweet birch]

||Cerenovus||

[fresh shard]

Oh of course

[sweet birch]

🐦 🗣️ 🫵

[fresh shard]

Now I'm thinking ||Exorcist||

[sage atlas]

[flat lintel]

The fact you spent the time to do that

[heady cradle]

This one's pretty straightforward: 🐺
I am going out there with 🧠 🤖 💢 tho

[abstract cosmos]

😈💼 ❌🪦 (slight stretch but ah well)

[heady cradle]

Exorcist?

[abstract cosmos]

nope

this might help

[copper quail]

2️⃣ ✅ ❌ 👨‍🦽

🔢 🚨

😈 🥑 (didn't have a better idea to describe this one lol)

[pseudo fulcrum]

||devils avocado lol||

[dense moat]

🗾 🕐 ▶️

[valid garden]

🪓

Could probably do some better ones though tbh

👑

[dense moat]

😱 💬 🏆

[valid garden]

?

[dense moat]

Nope

[valid garden]

Its the trophy that's throwing me off

🕷️ ?

[dense moat]

Oh that mighta been redundnat

It was Fearmonger. Fearmonger win

[valid garden]

OH

[dense moat]

I coulda just done speech fear, but i went style

[valid garden]

I'd do
👻 😱 🫵

I don't like playing as FM though tbh

[dense moat]

I just put it for testing if I could

Fearmonger is ok but its not great

[valid garden]

That's fair

🤕 🔨

[pseudo fulcrum]

?

[hot orchid]

🎩➕2️⃣📤

[sage atlas]

🧠😈❌😈

[acoustic chasm]

🔎 🤥

👀 🍺 👉 😈

[lucid crag]

🍌 🤸

[young sonnet]

🍰😋

🪶

[lucid crag]

3/16: If you were to turn any clocktower role into a pokemon, what would it be, look like, what type, and what would you name it?

(hopefully people like this question lol)

[cursive cobalt]

I have absolutely no knowledge regarding Pokémon whatsoever

Lol

[lucid crag]

I think a pikachu is in it /j

[sage atlas]

Idk Pokémon much but I guess lycan as eevee or something

Gray and I'd name it "Lycanthrope"

[cursive cobalt]

I wonder what the overlap between BotC fans and Pokémon fans looks like

[lucid crag]

Gray is a sick type lol

[sage atlas]

It would look gray

[lucid crag]

There's the pets vs pokemon games

[sage atlas]

Idk it would be fighting type

[cursive cobalt]

Sadly, it would only be able to kill allies 😔

[fast anchor]

lemme cook

here’s a shot at a two-stage line with some of the fun consult roles

Amnibara (Ground) —> Cavant (Ground/Psychic)

based on a capybara!

Amnibara’s very much got the psyduck vibe of being confused about everything, probably bipedal. it’s got a constant paw scratching its head; very confused about life.

HP: 65
ATK: 50
DEF: 55
SPA: 60
SPD: 45
SPE: 45
BST: 320

Cavant has big brain energy. A look into its eyes reveals how powerful it thinks it is based on what it discovered upon evolution. If it wasn’t bipedal already it is now.

I’m not sure you can link the wheelchair into the design well but giving it a bigger head (bigger brain) and probably some (basic) metal tools in its hands (think kadabra/zam’s spoons) to show how smart it’s gotten. Not sure how to link ’s T/F thing into the design either which is kinda disappointing but someone more experienced in this kinda thing probably could

Evolves at Level 28

HP: 80
ATK: 50
DEF: 110
SPA: 105
SPD: 90
SPE: 70
BST: 505

will do stats and stuff later

[valid garden]

[lucid crag]

Btw I feel like answering my question so I will.
Ananalanche
Grass/Ice

Banana body with like icy peels as feet (maybe making ice skates with them, lol?)

[mild notch]

~~ Golem ~~

[lucid crag]

, rock, Rock, Brock /j

[sweet birch]

Minccino the Chambermaid <3

Oh you meant DESIGN a pokemon

Regional form of Minccino

It wears a maid outfit

Psychic type because dream eater

idk

[flat lintel]

Also make this another minigame

[valid garden]

[young sonnet]

😳

[heady cradle]

I'd definitely do, like, Dark/Fire Mezepheles.

[young sonnet]

I couldn't find an emoji like that

[valid garden]

? I was guessing lol

[young sonnet]

Oh I'm stupid lmao, low brightness + being outdoors made the mez emoji look brown and like an actual quill emoji

[sharp violet]

Acrobat
Psychic-type
Ability: Sturdy
HP: 55
ATK: 65
DEF: 70
SpA: 45
SpD: 75
SPD: 50
Evolves at level 37 into:
Fool
Psychic-type
Ability:
HP: 105
ATK: 65
DEF: 85
SpA: 75
SpD: 115
SPD: 95

[dense moat]

3/19: Kiss Marry Kill for

Who’ll it be?

[fresh shard]

Kiss the Godfather
Marry the Vizier
Kill the Baron (less reliable sugar daddy than the Vizier, probably not all that fun to date)

[sweet birch]

^ This but kill the Vizier and hope the Baron is next in line for the throne

[fierce reef]

hmmm idk

kissing the godfather seems wrong bc i imagine it as like a spindly old man

[sweet birch]

Nah you just kiss his hand

As a sign of respect

[hot orchid]

Kiss the Baron, marry the Godfather, kill the Vizier (it's the day so they'll be fine)

[tall raft]

Kill the vizier, either nobody dies or we topple a leader of state
Marry the godfather, feel like they’d be a pretty good partner
Kiss the baron, I feel like they would be attractive

[fast anchor]

you all are forgetting you cant kill the vizier in the day

[dense moat]

Yeah. Probably shoulda added Mastermind, for maximal flavor. But tbf, the kill could also assume you kill the Vizier at night, so...

[fierce reef]

LMAO fair enough

[tall raft]

Who said it was the day?

[fast anchor]

20/3: What's the weirdest custom script you've seen that was still fun?

[young sonnet]

Define weirdest
I think some of the weirdest customs are the most fun
Zets' "Minion is angel protected and demon has two bluffs" teenyville script is gloriously hilarious

[valid garden]

I had fun with the VI + Legion 1/0/0/1 script

[hot orchid]

Oops! All Alchemists (but with Outsiders) was maybe the weirdest my group has gotten that stayed fun

[vale oxide]

Oops All Evils if you wanna count custom rules

[dense moat]

3/21: Have you ever been responsible for a D1 rerack? If so, what happened?

[fresh shard]

Was a Pukka, got tested by the grandmother confirmed Tea Lady day 1 😦

My plan at that point was "hope I'm the Lunatic"

I also managed to get a game ending slayer kill in a blind TB game

[cloud plover]

I was the ST for a game of TB. Sent out YSK info as soon as I sent out roles, which I was told would let players meta non-poisoner game 😅 Not my finest moment

Really more of a N1 rerack, but eh, close enough

[acoustic chasm]

Pretended to be a poli and had a baron out to me. Got the demon executed because they complained a lot when I nominated them.

[dense moat]

Wait, how did you convince evil you were Poli? Just making up obviously bad info? Claiming a bluff?

[acoustic chasm]

Ok I'll elaborate

I have a group I play with and of them I'm a bit more experienced

We were playing a custom script made by one of the group

It included Baron and Widow

In a 1 minion game

It was supposed to be a 0 outsider game, but I got dealt Saint

So I instantly knew it was a Baron game

I decided to fake claim a Widow ping and claim Undertaker to try and bluff Poli

And the Baron outed to me because they didn't see a reason I would do that as any other character

[acoustic chasm]

also it was the first time we had poli on the script so I guessed that the ST would put an actual poli in

[fast anchor]

be me, ST of a custom
about to get kicked out of our venue in like a half hour
decide to put the Doomsayer in for our game because we won't finish otherwise
put in 15 random tokens and like the bureaucrat or something (big group), i don't wanna run legion so it's ND time

d1

good cult leader doomsays
good cult leader forms a cult
all hands go up

[sharp violet]

Well that's one way to end a game quick

[dense moat]

3/22: As it turns out, the new Summoner can’t add an Outsider token in place of the Demon: only extra TF. Do you think it should be able to add Outsiders? Why or why not?

[cursive cobalt]

Even though it would help with scriptbuilding

I think it would be too powerful if it could add outsiders

It’s strong enough as it is

Then again, so is FG… yet it still adds an Outsider…

Botc role design is weird

[fresh shard]

Outsider mods also feel like they should interact with abilities somehow and I just don't think Summoner's does outside of weird edge cases

I guess Vigor's -1 mod doesn't do much outside of allowing a Sweetheart bluff, unless I'm missing something

Summoner outsider mod would only really help with bluffing Hatter and that has the problem that putting Hatter on a script with Summoner is a terrible idea

Hmm, actually, what if it has -1 to +1, like Godfather so it's a bit like a mini Kazali?

[cursive cobalt]

You aren’t

The ability itself does nothing to interact with outsiders

[sharp violet]

I guess it’s to have a second outsider mod for S&V but that’s still not a great reason

[cursive cobalt]

That’s the sole reason it exists, yes

To allow dead minions to bluff outsiders

[fast anchor]

tbf, fang gu needs the +1 to function in a base-0 game

to that end I feel like most outsider mod functions in that respect; I don't see why Summoner should have it

[patent elbow]

No deaths till day four were they killed demon

[flat lintel]

Pov: Summoner minion

[patent elbow]

Yeah we were playing in a Levi game

Except it was po

[vale oxide]

Was MM (BMR)
Told the demon they were the Lunatic
Demon gets executed day 1
I get executed day 2 😎

[vale oxide]

I think that's good

[fast anchor]

that’s actually not day 1 and we didn’t rerack 🤓 👆

[cursive cobalt]

3/23: You’ve been given the opportunity to permanently rename one Clocktower role. What do you do?

[fierce reef]

pacifist - safety chicken

pigeon?

[sharp violet]

Legion - Horde
I think they're all good and don't need changes

[fast anchor]

joke answer: Vigormortis --> Skinkulus 2

real answer: Village Idiot --> Gumshoe (or something that less people are upset over, because it's feels a bit rude to say and combined with the token art could come across as infantilizing the disabled)

[shrewd cloud]

(Joke Answer) Lil’ Monsta -> #rules-discussion’s worst nightmare

Serious answer though I think either Village Idiot for the same reason Axolator said or Lunatic, though I am not sure what I would rename it to since it has already been renamed once (and the old name was worse than Lunatic)

[fast anchor]

I haven't seen much discussion about the Lunatic's name being bad? Definitely better than what it originally was, though

With the flavor Lunatic's going for it might be hard to find a name that everyone's okay with (including the people that currently don't like Lunatic as a name)

[dense moat]

Obiviously Zombuul into "Pain in the Ass" (joke)All of the names are good. If I had to choose one, I'd be willing to do Acrobat as "Taster" or "Food Taster". Just to try add a more intuitive flavor for why acrobat dies. i'd also be open to Ranger as an alternative to Balloonist.

[sharp violet]

The acrobat dies because its neighbors are holding the tightrope

[fast anchor]

oooo I have no problem with Balloonist but Ranger is such a cool name for a Townsfolk

[flat lintel]

Zombuul -> Zomjuul

[dense moat]

I mostly chose Balloonist to become Ranger because I thought it fit the theme of roaming and gathering simple info that adds up

You are absolutely right that Ranger is a nice Townsfolk name in general.

[sweet birch]

Wait what was it before

[shrewd cloud]

Schizophrenic

[sweet birch]

OH yeah wtf

I think Lunatic is fine? Says what it needs to, plus like Axo said idk what else you'd call it

[shrewd cloud]

Lunatic’s not the absolute best imo but it is definitely leagues better than what it was before. And yeah, it’s hard to theme a character like this, especially with a medieval setting

[foggy grotto]

Boomdandy to Demoman TF2™️

[sweet birch]

Could maybe do savant -> logician

"Savant" implies "good at exactly one thing" and I've mostly seen it applied to the disabled outside of botc

That said, Savant is a fun word that I like to say a lot

[shrewd cloud]

Honestly to me I think a lot of the issues some people do have with Savant (which I don’t think are unfounded by any means) come from the icon artwork

[sweet birch]

That's fair

And honestly I don't have an issue with it, as someone on the spectrum (for whatever that's worth), but also if I had to make a change, that'd be it

Obviously the artwork gets a little disconnected upon doing that

Idk maybe yoink the mathematician's thing and draw a bunch of cool shapes

[shrewd cloud]

Mathematician: Logic Edition

[cursive cobalt]

I usually say VI rather than Village Idiot for that reason

[cursive cobalt]

What was the old name ._.

[shrewd cloud]

@cursive cobalt

[fresh shard]

I know the Arkham Horror card game changed the Lunatic enemy type to Possessed

And that seems like it would work here, especially with the part about the Demon knowing your choices

Only thing is BOTC doesn't generally name characters in the passive voice

[fast anchor]

I’ve seen scripts with a brain (inside a head, to not get confused for cere) for the Savant which I think works pretty well instead of the chair

[acoustic chasm]

Whenever I see the savant token I just think of Stephen hawking even tho he isn't a savant

He represents it better than the name does

VI also feels weird flavourwise because there are several of them

[lean kestrel]

probably psychopath for similar reasons to lunatic? potentially to maniac or something. lumberjack works w the icon but not really the vibe but could be an option?? would explain the axe at the very least

[fresh shard]

I think the axe and flavour text are a reference to the "heeeere's Johnny" thing

[lean kestrel]

probably it just never made sense why you would go for an axe at all in the first place

i guess (jonathan sims voice) it is remarkably easy to find an axe in central london

[fast anchor]

agree w eka - I’m pretty sure the axe is a reference to The Shining

There’s a universe not too far from this one where it’s referencing The Texas Chainsaw Massacre instead

[cursive cobalt]

I thought that was the old Lunatic name

Not the old VI name

[fast anchor]

You asked about the old Lunatic name

VI to my knowledge had never been renamed

[foggy grotto]

3/24: What are your favorite and least favorite characters in BotC to run as ST and why?

[cursive cobalt]

Favorite: Savant (I love me some good puzzlemaking)

Least favorite: LM (bruh you’re telling me that I decide every kill? Where’s the fun in that 💀)

Also I believe this question has been asked before

But I don’t mind the dupe

[fast anchor]

Fav: Fisherman. I like to think I give pretty strong advice where it feels like a Townsfolk instead of “listen to the ST yap about something you don’t understand”. Honorable mention to Amne

Worst: Shab. Feels like I’m calling the game every time I decide to rezz or not. (Dis)honorable mentions to LM (rules headache) and Yaggababble (though it might change as I get more experience running it)

[cursive cobalt]

Fish is fun too

What makes Savant better for me is that it’s each day

[foggy grotto]

odd, i searched the words “least favorite” on this forum and the closest i got was favorite and least favorite characters to play as

[fast anchor]

Savant info can make or break games which is why it’s not in my favorites - if you fuck up it can feel super unfun.

Fish on the other hand is like giving the good team a personalized push in the right direction (which often times can just be “Listen to player X” or “Stay the course” or “Get player Y to look at their info again”)

[fresh shard]

I'd be much better positioned to answer this after I run SNV tomorrow, because I'm looking forward to running Savant a lot and very much not looking forward to tracking Mathematician and Flowergirl

[cursive cobalt]

Tbf I do have a lot of experience with Savant

[fast anchor]

Eh, you’re looking at one person for Flowergirl and you have the reminder tokens for math

[cursive cobalt]

I can see how it can be less fun for STs who aren’t as accustomed to its parameters

[cursive cobalt]

People always forget Math has reminder tokens

[fresh shard]

Deciding who to Gossip kill is pretty stressful but so far I've been saved from the need to make that call by the Gossip getting constantly drunked

[fast anchor]

Gossip kills are just okay for me, imo? Nothing amazing but there’s some fun to be had (deciding when to kill the Tinker or self-kill the Gossip when you think something’s too strong)

[fresh shard]

(Also that Gossip kept making statements about what people were wearing in ways that I kept having to ask them to clarify)

[fast anchor]

Wait until the actual gossip gossips about your bank PIN number

[fresh shard]

Lmfao

16 Artist questions to find it by binary search

Oh, look, I seem to have misplaced my Vigormortis poison token on you, how did that happen?

[fast anchor]

Just self-kill the gossip at that point?

[dense moat]

Favorite: I like the Drunk. A bunch of cute potential for misinformation

Least Favorite: Amni. I have nothing against as a character, but it terrifies me. Savant I can do and Fish I’m getting better at. Amni is tricky

[pseudo fulcrum]

Favourite: Cerenovus (and i guess Harpy too because it fits the same reason, i've just ran cere more) because i love seeing players' reactions when they haven't woken to use their ability, but instead have to be mad.

Least Favourite: Savant because i'm not very good at Savant info and every time i have to come up with one i stress a lot about making sure it's original, useful, not too strong, not too weak and that i haven't completely missed something. Yeah it just gets me very stressed when i run it because i become a sort of savant statement perfectionist.

which is weird because i'm definitely not a perfectionist normally, but when it comes to savant info, something just changes

[heady cradle]

Favorite: Depending on the script, I love a good Plague Doctor, but I will also happily take a Pacifist. I like some control over game direction, having seen games that veer far enough off that I can't help course-correct.

Least Favorite: Savant. I can't give Savant info to save my life.

[sage atlas]

Amne is fun because I get to try out some fun abilities
Shab is my least favorite because revives can literally be the entire reason one team wins the game

I promise I won't do any insane amne ability in our games

[foggy grotto]

answering my own question: favorite would probably be pithag as i love to see and administer all the crazy things people get turned into

Least favorite is High Priestess, I cannot run that character in the spirit of a townsfolk and not have it be insanely overpowered

[fast anchor]

HP needs a well-designed script

You need good reasons to point the HP to an evil player

Too much info on the script and it becomes “this player’s info is sober and healthy” the character which is obv powerful

[foggy grotto]

it also becomes a “each night learn a good player”

[sage atlas]

I remember that one legion game where you gave the hp me, the monk, the entire time

[foggy grotto]

there was actually no one else

and if i showed them another good player it would be too op

and you did keep protecting them

[fast anchor]

you couldn’t show them a legion whose bluff was falling apart?

[foggy grotto]

by the time that was viable the only legions left had airtight bluffs

[sweet birch]

Genuinely I see HP as "YSK someone with sobergood info that is probably relevant to you"

Maybe if you're lucky you'll get two days of useful sobergood info

Probably not though

[cursive cobalt]

How would you course correct with a townsfolk ability? Those are meant to be played as if you were in the shoes of the player with the ability, not treated as a ST’s personal ability

That’s what fabled are meant for

[cursive cobalt]

Agreed, people need to learn what scripts it works well on

Rn it’s not very well utilized

[cursive cobalt]

3/25: least favorite type of role?

(Think specific categorizations)

[cloud plover]

Oh boy, do I have a series of hot takes for you! Disclaimer: No shame on anybody who might enjoy these roles! Variety is a good thing, even if I personally don't enjoy it sometimes

In order from least favorite to most tolerable but still not a huge fan of:

• Marionette specifically. Questioning my alignment sucks.
• Mathematician specifically. Too many edge cases, unintuitive to think about.
• Huntsman specifically. It's only good with one other role, and it doesn't feel like you help a lot
• Poppy Grower and Magician specifically. It's not fun to play against as Evil, and not fun to play the weird social game as good.
• Roles that give out info without strict mechanical implications, e.g. High Priestess, General. I don't like thinking about info that isn't specifically "X is true" or "Y is false." Knowing that "the ST thinks that you should talk to X today" tells me nothing without consulting the wiki or more experienced players about what the likely outcomes are for what sort of player might be pointed out in what situation, and that is not a fun way to play the game, imho.
• Roles that cause alignment swapping, e.g. Goon, Politician, Mephit. Drawing a red token is fun. Flipping to red after drawing a blue token feels gross.
• Roles that have madness, e.g. Pixie, Cerenovus, Mutant. I can play madness now, but it will always feel icky to me, like I'm sabotaging my team. I have been told that this is the point, but I still don't like it :P
• Roles that prevent kills/slow the game down, e.g. Exo, Innkeeper, Devil's Advocate. I have things to do! Let's get things moving!
• Roles that only do something once per game, e.g. Slayer, Artist, Seamstress. High stress, and dying before you're able to do your thing sucks. Can still be fun, but the risk/reward dynamic here isn't something I'm a fan of personally. I like to have helped even if I die D1.

[cursive cobalt]

Just by these takes alone, I can tell you play a lot of forum mafia

I do think your post highlights a lot of the more edgy aspects of Clocktower very well though

A lot of said mechanics trade in personal player fairness for “funny interactions go brr”

So I can definitely see how they could be controversial

[heady cradle]

This is true — for context, most of the games I've seen go off the rails have seen evil just do a clean sweep with not a single evil player dead.
This is, of course, just ability function, but it's more that I have the capacity with an omniscient game perspective to point it in the right direction, whereas good players... don't.

[cursive cobalt]

I see

Alright, that seems like a fine use of the ability then

The Pacifist player should be going through the game knowing that the first time good does something wrong, the Storyteller can and will shield them from most consequences of said decision

In that way, it’s singular use can be boiled down to course correction from negative to neutral/positive outcomes

I was mostly just concerned about the wording; course correction usually implies correction from good/evil favoring to neutral, aka equalization

Which is not at all how such an ability should be implemented

[heady cradle]

Yeah, makes sense.

[sweet birch]

Roles that actively incentivize lying as good (Snake Charmer, Ravenkeeper, etc.) I think it's a good, healthy archetype but my playstyle is an honest one so when I roll these roles I don't do well

[pliant grail]

Passive non-info abilities (especially in outsiders)
I prefer outsiders that require active action, such as mutant, as opposed to things you can do nothing about, like tinker or acrobat
Even when your ability is bad, you should be able to do something about it

[sweet birch]

No politician is different

Politician is like a blank token to me

[heady cradle]

I enjoy roles where my ability does something and I can register that something occurred, especially those that let me make active choices. Things that are rather out of my control like Sage or Plague Doctor, or are almost roles that Town Square rather than I possess, like Clockmaker or Pacifist, thusly aren't very fun. Baron and Evil Twin also fall in this category.

[cursive cobalt]

The way I see it, "global" roles essentially boil down to "you know this effect is in play-- however, it's YOUR job to maximize its value"

Since you have the most direct relation to said effect, you have the most certainty in it being present

And thereby getting other people to play around it knowing that it'll benefit your team can be fun

Though that philosophy does kind of fall through the floor when said global effect is actively harmful, or actively out of your control (and thereby uninteractable) like with some Outsiders.

So I can see how it can be looked down upon

I guess the best comparison I can give to it is

You know those mechanics in roguelikes that offer you some kind of effect that you can play around, but don't actively control

"Every 3 seconds, deflect all upcoming projectiles for a brief moment"
"Triple your attack damage every third swing"

Playing around a global ability is like that

It encourages you to change your playstyle to take advantage of a benefit you know is reliably going to help you in a certain way

And that frees you to do things you would otherwise not do (charge into a swarm knowing Deflect is soon going to be off cooldown, go for one more swing despite being at low HP, etc)

Its most predominant in the power-type global roles mentioned by Yiga

While they might not seem like much on paper ("oh, so im a cardboard cutout while this fabled is secretly added to the town square? riveting..."), most "passive" power abilities actually drastically change the way you as a player should be playing

Bishop, Barista, Minstrel, Pacifist, and PG might appear as glorified villagers on paper, but each one of them has a unique playstyle for a reason

Their effects being active gives the player who knows that options they would otherwise not have

[foggy grotto]

either passive outsiders or characters that make you rely on the ST to follow an expected meta without said meta ever being stated anywhere (looking at two BMR characters in particular…)

[dusty moon]

whats this

[cursive cobalt]

every day (if someone remembers), a question is posted and people can answer

anyone can post

[dusty moon]

alr

[fresh shard]

3/26: Favourite roles to play in a Teensy?

[cursive cobalt]

Pacifist

(It’s OP)

I’ve Philoed into it in a B4 fishbucket teensy once

[foggy grotto]

goon

[valid garden]

Fisherman

[fast anchor]

the ST

[dusty moon]

Politician

Or other zero-responsibility high-chaos roles like mutant

[sage atlas]

Goblin my beloved

[past kayak]

honestly the ST, especially for in-person games. It’s such a vibe to just chill with a small group of friends and watch them play clocktower

[cursive cobalt]

If you’re playing a teensyville script with a Poli, you’ve got other issues to worry about

[cursive cobalt]

This is my real answer

I’ll always take STing over playing

Especially with teensyvilles

[patent elbow]

ST turned player (it’s happened more than once in my time running any and all homebrew)

[acoustic chasm]

Goblin is a lot of fun

[cursive cobalt]

3/27: If you were to ship two BOTC characters in headcanon, who would they be?

[fast anchor]

[heady cradle]

I mean, while really basic:
and is an obvious one.

Also, the and absolutely have a great open relationship where the former happily supports the latter's sex work.

And you can't forget: the has been helping out the when they get tripped up, and it's very cute.

[sweet birch]

The former helps keep the latter grounded

[foggy grotto]

in a scandalous affair!

[fresh shard]

Shared hobbies are great

[mild notch]

and because || they're the most likely to get on a ship together ||

[dense moat]

The night before the ST died, she prayed for wisdom and discovered a crush who had watched from afar

And if the Demon tragically claims the priestess, her love will take up her wisdom

Also they’re lesbians because I say so

[fast anchor]

oh no I agree with that

in the words of someone much more wise than me

[dense moat]

The wisdom of the ancients.

I was admittedly fishing for Flowergirl somehow but then I thought “Wait, Pixie High Priestess works!”

Bonus points if you decide HP doesn’t actually worship the same deity as Preacher/Excorcist.

Doesn’t have to be a monotheist : )

[fast anchor]

now I wanna ship

[dense moat]

I mean Excorcist is explicitly Christian in flavor text, so thats really the story of two very deep closets

As someone who has Google translated every B3 BOTC character, Excorist is a bitch. Same with Bishop

[sweet birch]

Unfortunately flowergirl is a child, I'm pretty sure

[fast anchor]

true, she isn’t called flowerwoman

[dense moat]

I don’t actually know. I’m pretty sure Flowergirl is an herbalist. I interpret her as a young woman because it’s more fun that way

[sweet birch]

Oh I thought of it in terms of like

[dense moat]

But I’m not sure there’s any direct reference to her being even a teenager. Certainly not like the roles that are canonically underage

[sweet birch]

Wedding flowergirl

Who are traditionally under the age of 10

[fast anchor]

flavortext implied she’s a florist to me

[sweet birch]

Welp

[dense moat]

She could be a teen, which would make it apply. But she’s definitely not a child

[sweet birch]

I'll also pitch though now that I think about it

[cursive cobalt]

A Flowergirl is an anarchic term for a florist

I canonize her as a young woman

[sweet birch]

Flowergirl and Town Crier, but the TC is a little boy ringing little wedding bells

[fast anchor]

I WAS GONNA BRING THIS UP

[sweet birch]

The flowergirl catches the bouquet

[cursive cobalt]

This is the obvious one

[fast anchor]

since you mentioned Flowergirl as child

they’re just good friends but the adults in their life ship em

[cursive cobalt]

I ship as a one-sided admirer situation

[sweet birch]

Yeah they don't actually have a solid concept of romance yet

[fast anchor]

because, like, ten

[sweet birch]

Nor do they need to!

[cursive cobalt]

(Both stop demon kills)

[dense moat]

Probably not a ship but definitely respect for each others arts. If Fearmonger werent such a recluse

[fast anchor]

oh this is “villainous gay uncles” btw

[sweet birch]

Oh for sure

[cursive cobalt]

Both seem very reclusive to me

They operate from the shadows and seem to have non-human motifs

[sweet birch]

Nah okay hear me out

Modern world AU

They're both journalists

For hack publications

[cursive cobalt]

Exorcist is very pretentious

[sweet birch]

They fell in love at work

[cursive cobalt]

But also respected for his capabilities

I imagine he’s too busy trying to make a living and cleanse his community to consider romance though

[sweet birch]

Back in main universe,

The RK specifically is a goth dude

[cursive cobalt]

I also have this headcanonized

[sweet birch]

The pacifist is much more upbeat, gender unspecific

[cursive cobalt]

But the personalities I’ve given them are different

And they don’t canonically meet until after their respective demon situations have been dealt with

As they’re from different Ravenswood Bluffs

[sweet birch]

The Pacifist keeps forcing the RK to go with them to various social engagements on at least a biweekly basis

[dense moat]

Are you sure its not just different seasons of the same town? SNV is different because the circus is in town. Maybe they were just out of focus between BMR and TB

[cursive cobalt]

Perhaps?

[sweet birch]

Different subsections of town maybe

[cursive cobalt]

I’ve always thought of each script as its own town

With unique geography and residents

As well as each “incident” involving a demon taking place in different seasons

[sweet birch]

Maybe the exorcist has drawn salt lines around town's various districts

And that's why the different demons never show up in other parts of town

I also like to think the incidents happen regularly enough that everyone just goes "oh fuck not this again"

How does everyone come back to life every time? Who cares

Maybe they're all cursed

[cursive cobalt]

I’ve always imagined the Pacifist as a good-intentioned cynic
After a lifetime of being shut down and scorned for their advocation, they now operate off the principle that helping those who are ungrateful, while noble, is not worth pursuing in the face of large resistance

[devout quail]

i personally ship and as a power couple where one creates opportunities for the other to act

[cursive cobalt]

It’s very rare that they see a spark of actual, genuine goodness in someone
Those who they decide to advocate for possess such a spark

[dense moat]

Necrophilia

we need a recap page for these ships before the next prompt is made tomorrow, in here or general

[cursive cobalt]

Necrophilia

[devout quail]

is it necrophilia if they're not actually dead

[sweet birch]

Idk but how sapient is the zombuul again?

[cursive cobalt]

Sapient; just very, very lethargic

[cursive cobalt]

The fanfic thread has still yet to be made

[dense moat]

not very (side note: I like the idea that the DA might want to defend the dead Zombuul but cant come up with a plausible legal case, so they dont bother defending corpses from desecration)

[sweet birch]

No but since everyone thinks the Zombuul is dead the DA goes to jail anyway

[devout quail]

anyway and are at least platonically a thing

[cursive cobalt]

“Sir, your client’s head just fell off”

[cursive cobalt]

Does Ravenswood Bluff even have a prison facility

It seems that the death penalty rules supreme

[dense moat]

They do not. They are just a small backwater town and justice is dealt by the community, especially with the treat of killer Demons

I'm just gonna do a quick ship recap page to make things easier

[cursive cobalt]

What other ships does my brain want to contribute

[abstract cosmos]

unhinged and unapologetically evil power couple

[devout quail]

toxic ship where the pacifist is tired of the hate they get and effectively has a saul goodman arc

[dense moat]

RECAP: Axolator: / (the gay evil uncles enjoying wine), Toges: / (grounded after previous love dies) Ekarderif: / (shared hobbies), Kenoboi: / (affair), Omegabyte: / (on the same boat), Me: / (power lesbians who see each other N1, pixie is distant admirer) Temporary: / , Benguined: / (necrophilia and opportunites)

[cursive cobalt]

Gambler and Gossip i see as vitriolic friends

Not romantic though

[dense moat]

Vizier is too classy to be associated with Psychopath

I like to think Baron, Viz, and Godfather all kinda orbit theh same social circle. Mastermind is elegant, but antisocial and prefers to stay awake with his overly complicated notes in a dark room(kinda like BOTC players..)

[cursive cobalt]

Choirboy admires the Minstrel’s talent, who admires the Exorcist as a crush, who in turn doesn’t care for either of them

[dense moat]

Choirboy is a child (actually thats the point nvm)

[cursive cobalt]

Maybe I’m a Mastermind

[cursive cobalt]

Yeah, it’s not romantic

[devout quail]

also entirely unrelated to the question. hates because creating demons is a complicated process if you wanna do it right and just does it without any care for the consequences

[cursive cobalt]

PH makes things explode every time they make a demon

It’s very sloppy

[dense moat]

Side note: I love Pixie HP as a ship. It is now my new favorite

[devout quail]

isn't even aware exists it's a completely one-sided rivalry

[dense moat]

Apprenticeship? Summoner studies under the Pit Hag to learn her arts?

[cursive cobalt]

I have more rivalries than I do friendly interactions

I’m realizing

[cursive cobalt]

I’d like to think that they get similar results with different techniques

Summoner is much more refined

Studied for a dozen moonless years and whatnot

[dense moat]

Ah like Wizard v Warlock in D n D (pit hag warlock, summoner as wizard)

[fast anchor]

i'm sorry in advance but i saw this in my head and needed to make it

[cursive cobalt]

PH just does the equivalent of throw shit in a pot and turn up the heat

[cursive cobalt]

Based off one YT tutorial

[dense moat]

Ive made this joke about Pit Hag. She and Ursala are both evil, but at least they are trans allies and can give you everlasting affirmation... at a price

[mild notch]

Oh I was just making a Ship pun

[fast anchor]

on the very rare occasion the mastermind goes to a party everyone loves him though

but yeah new headcanon

[dense moat]

I see him the way I see Light Yagami. He's disarmingly charming when he cares to. But hes mostly antisoical and sits in his swivel chair all night

I guess thats more L than Light but Light is more charming, which is why I said that

[fast anchor]

yeah, checks out

L's more of a goblin than light is (so probably a worse )

but this is the botc discord, not the death note one

[dense moat]

Any other wondeful ships? (specifically ships this time?)

[fast anchor]

as a love triangle (in the conventional sense, not an actual triangle)

plot twist: the Huntsman is a Minion

[cursive cobalt]

and both harbor interest in each other, but keep things professional out of a sense of obligation

Doesn’t stop the light flirting occasionally though

[fast anchor]

strike me as that kind of enemies-to-lovers crackship who would drunkenly make out at a party but absolutely despise each other

[cursive cobalt]

to me is that one happy-go-lucky guy who doesn’t show up for social events often, but when he does he always (unknowingly) creeps people out with how much he knows about them

[dense moat]

Even though he creeps her out, she still wants to believe there’s good in him (nvm that’s probably just generally true, not a ship)

[cursive cobalt]

He sees a lot of things up in that sky

But his social skills could use some improvement

[dense moat]

For those who don’t prefer a more cynical Pacifist, probably bond over mutual idealism. Empath would probably also be good with either for similar reasons

Also met while robbing graves and hates both

[dusty moon]

I second

Because my favorite kind of ship is a 🛳️

[cursive cobalt]

Seems like an edited meme

[fast anchor]

i didn't draw this if that's what you mean

this is the original as far as I know

people have riffed on this meme since

[acoustic chasm]

For me, comes to mind quite quickly

idk the dynamic but I feel they are a sweet pair

However, I also kinda like the idea of . both are geniuses, doing seemingly impossible things to others, and I think they would admire eachother.

[dusty moon]

Is the huntsman/damsel interaction a reference to Snow White

[dense moat]

The Soldier tries to be strong enough to keep their love safe from the Demon too. Unfortunately, it’s probably a bit of survivors guilt if the Sweetheart dies, meaning the Demon can kill them too

[acoustic chasm]

Yeahh. It works so well

[heady cradle]

This is genuinely the best discussion I've ever seen on this server

Like
This whole thing needs to go into a hall of fame somewhere

[young sonnet]

Especially this pic lmao

[sweet birch]

Enemies to lovers

[heady cradle]

The and the are in a long-standing rivalry — one represents the newer, more cutthroat neighbor-killing neighbor, while the other genuinely cares about honor, veiling their violence under that of those who lie outside the structures of town.

The , , and all get up to some kinky shit, though the latter is tired from work.

The fucking hates the , because they know they're getting evil folks off the hook, but there ain't much that they can do to change the system.

And there are absolute fuck-ton of people flirting with the cute .

[sage atlas]

Carnival time

[acoustic chasm]

To just add to this, one is really into knowing every occult secret, while the other is incredibly into science and frankenstein esque experiments. They would try and one up eachother to prove that their way of thinking is more flexible, and end up viewing eachother as equals.

[dense moat]

3/28: If you could invite a BOTC character from in universe to play BOTC with you, who would you bring?

(Also evils aren’t allowed to hurt anyone)

[cloud plover]

The Goon! Since I picked them, they're on my side now, right?

[mild notch]

~~ Sadly you didn't choose them with your own ability, you chose them with the #1104980997470171177 ability ~~

[fresh shard]

Mathematician because they'd be good at the solve and good at knowing Mathematician rules questions

[cursive cobalt]

Savant; they’ll pop off in a different way every game, bound to be entertaining

[fresh shard]

2 for 2 every game

[sharp violet]

Sweetheart - nobody will ever suspect them when they pull an evil token

[heady cradle]

Does Revolutionary count? I'd always know they'd be on my team, but it'd also be very nice to have some comrades around 😅

Also, I'd like to watch a game where the Mastermind was playing (or STing, for that matter) — but not play with them. They sound... terrifying, gonna be honest.

[shrewd cloud]

Empath. They will have immaculate social reads which I know I am horrible at

[dense moat]

Mastermind would be an interesting ST to be sure. (definitely headcannon now that MM runs BOTC games for Mions and Demons as tactical discussions)

[pseudo fulcrum]

Puzzlemaster, will instantly solve the game

[dense moat]

Also, I’d count Revolutionairy as enough of a character

[fast anchor]

I want to play whatever hell script the Djinn has cooked

[dense moat]

I feel like would probably be a great time. Though I’d rather ST for them than play, because I’d never be able to read them

Also, is exactly the sort of player who exclusively picks Philo Snake Charmer : )

[sage atlas]

Bootlegger because chaos

Nobody knows what will happen

[cursive cobalt]

Either that, or they think they’ve instantly solved and delude themselves the entire game on a wrong tunnel

[fast anchor]

Can you blame them

[cloud plover]

Also they bought enough drinks to get one person pasted for the rest of the night but they can’t remember who

[cursive cobalt]

3/29: If BOTC got a TV series, which role would you like to see as the main character?

[indigo osprey]

Clearly the Storyteller in a saw-esque season whereby the players are all locked up and only the winner(s) can leave

[pliant grail]

It's got to be a clue spoof, main characters are all the starting info ones like librarian and washerwoman

[onyx saffron]

Mutant

Why?

Well Mutant has actual reason to lie,unlike sage and ravenkeep who do it to die mutant does it to survive...

Also Since good Also needs to figure who to trust and who not to

Idk just many possibilities...And I like it

another Good Role would be savant imo

[fast anchor]

D/A could be interesting

[onyx saffron]

Townsfolk:savant
Outsider:Mutant
Minion:Summoner
Demon:honestly no idea prob vigor?

[young sonnet]

There's a trashy reality show called "Traitors" which is the bare minimum of a social deduction game and I would love if they just took that money and filmed live BotC instead, from ST's perspective, so we could get the classic reality TV thing of 1-on-1 segments during tense moments of what players were thinking

I know your question was more like, in the lore of BotC, but yeah I just wanted to say that cause "Traitors" existence kinda annoys me

[dusty moon]

Trouble Brewing: A murder mystery from the perspective of the Fortune Teller.

[fresh shard]

BOTC for prize money would never work but watching some random members of the public would be hilarious

You show up prepared for two weeks of subterfuge and suddenly it's a Riot game

[heady cradle]

How would you do in-person BotC sessions over two weeks?

I've been through near-month-long async games before, but I dunno how that'd work in person

[fresh shard]

I think that's how long The Traitors lasts so similar (maybe you get extra clues if you do the tasks or something)

[heady cradle]

I'd imagine something more along the lines of Masterchef

Or, quite frankly, the in-person NRB BotC episodes