#The Bleeding Of The Warband

96 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

forest sorrel
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A trophy is assembled, a pile of gritted steel and stained bronze reaching to the cliff, a representation of what the 2nd Legion Of The Imperial Raven has visited upon the empire's enemies: a glorious ecstasy of death and blood. As the ragged prepare to return home, their messengers sent out, they grimly line tables and tents with groans of exultant injury: "was the cost too high?" the broken wonder, as a cost higher still reaches from below, fixed with a grim vengeance, to pay for the bleeding of the city with...

The Bleeding Of The Warband

A hybrid homebrew script based on Trouble Brewing, featuring a mix of official and unofficial characters. I've tried to prioritize refinement with this one, so if you've been paying attention to my posts on this server, you may already be somewhat familiar with some of the characters, albeit in different forms. This script is still in playtesting, but you're free to take any characters you wish from it for use in your own projects; I'd appreciate it if I was credited, of course, but you're by no means remotely obliged.

As the script develops, it may become entirely homebrew, but right now I'm very happy with it as a hybrid. With all this preamble out of the way, I'll post the first version in the post below!

beta_art.png
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I would greatly appreciate any feedback, of course, and I will do my best to answer any questions you may have when I come online. I must stress that this is still very much an alpha build, but I think it's refined enough to be posted at least on the unofficial server

valid sundial
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Gremlin

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100/10 script already

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Me see gremlin on script me like the script

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@forest sorrel Increadible script tho!

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Genuinely some of the more unique HB roles I have seen in a long while

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In regards to feedback, there's very little that I might be of help but from the almanac it's clear you're looking for a alternative to invalid

forest sorrel
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more accurately, I'm looking for a concrete consequence for it nominating without permission

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i like the overall design as a variation of Butler but the stakes vis a vis nomination vs. voting are different enough that i'd love having concrete consequences

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however, those mechanical consequences have to be chosen carefully

valid sundial
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"If you nominate without permission, the St breaks a rule"

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How's that?

forest sorrel
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that's identical to "something bad happens", which I really don't want to go with

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even though something bad happens works well for like, a mechanical incentive that is supposed to completely cut out the possibility of it being broken, such as with Angel or Hell's Librarian, putting it on a resident rather than a Fabled has the problem of making it far more likely that the rule does end up being broken

valid sundial
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Well don't you want to stop the invalid from making a nom in the first place without permission?

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It's the threat of punishment rather than the punishment itself

forest sorrel
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yes, but people view the stakes differently in regards to fabled vs. residents
with an Angel or Hell's Librarian, people understand their purposee as encouraging things which are game-beneficial, but with an Invalid, the Invalid will likely stack the most likely "something bad happens" against the positive utility of them nominating, which, given it's lategame where the ability is most significant, they quite often will decide to nominate anyway unless the consequence you go with is just "good loses"

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that's why I don't want the Invalid's consequence to be a generic "something bad happens", but the other alternatives have large issues of their own. I'm sticking with the current wording for now, because it does function, but it's an issue that I want to work out

valid sundial
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Could always just resort to physical violence 👀

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Although that would be difficult in a online game

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Unless you can hire a international assassin or something.

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Ya physical violence seems hard to enforce online

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Hmm

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How about.. a madness clause but for nominations this time?

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You nom, you die sorta deal.

forest sorrel
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forced execution would be a positive in this case, i'd argue, and becasue of that it wouldn't be a credible threat

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you have to remember the nature of the script, I don't have any ways for day deaths or force executions
if witch was on-script it could work out, but that would take the script in a very different direction, and would additionally significantly limit what other scripts i could reuse the Invalid for

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again, the current wording is the best i have, I'm just not satisfied quite yet

valid sundial
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Each night you may choose a alive player (not yourself and not the same as last); if you nominate without their permission and they're good; they're poisoned.

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Bit lengthy

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But it's a good enough concequence?

forest sorrel
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that muddies up poisoning in a way i don't like, and because of the script, it can actually be used to confirm the Invalid

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i generally don't like reusing the same consequence (misinformation, in this case) for an outsider twice on the same script

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for example, I don't think Sweetheart and Drunk pair well together

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additionally, the problem is that if the consequence is too concrete, then it effectively guarantees that they'll break it, but if it's too vague, it also has that problem

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that's why I'm sticking with illegal nomination just being cheating, like with Butler and Golem, because even though it's far from perfect, it works completely fine if we assume good faith from the people playing the script

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given that this is a homebrew script that's only going to end up being played by experienced folks who love the game already, I think that's a fair assumption to make

prime garnet
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hmm, for the Rookie, is there anything stopping them from naming a demon that the town is pretty sure is out of play?

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also, Invalid probably should get a (not yourself) clause :P

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i also really love the third obscrul example, is it "you might have whatever ability good thinks the demon has"? or "you might have whatever ability good thinks you have"?

forest sorrel
forest sorrel
prime garnet
runic lantern
prime garnet
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is the Vessel intentionally "if you and the demon are still alive at final 4 you win"?

forest sorrel
forest sorrel
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When the Rookie dies, they must publicly name a character. (Give them time.) Mark that character token (whether it is in play or not) with the "Weakness" reminder. After the next time the Demon chooses a player, show them the "This character's ability affected you:" card, the Rookie, then the character marked with the Weakness token. They choose a player, or point to the sky to indicate nobody. If they correctly identify either the character's identity, mark all but 3 players with the Rookie's "Dead" reminder, and place shrouds over their character tokens. In the morning, announce that they are dead, and that it is the final day.

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but i've slightly updated the almanc to make that qmore clear

prime garnet
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is it intentional that due to the night order, Haruspex is completely useless in a Thane game?

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since Haruspex acts before the demon is chosen

forest sorrel
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i actually don't know how i made that mistake, an earlier version of the night order had Haruspex going after Thane as it's supposed to, I must've absentmindedly "fixed" the night order and in doing so made it incorrect

prime garnet
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can the Warden protect somebody from the Vessel?

forest sorrel
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it's not listed as a Demon, so no; this is an intended interaction

halcyon harness
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This actually looks like an incredibly well put together homebrew. No roles look overpowered or underpowered, and all the demons look interesting. Also, I have to respect a Hollow Knight reference.

prime garnet
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how come the obscrul has "You cannot enter play after setup."?

gloomy kayak
forest sorrel
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i considered the best option for scripts with character changers such as Pithag to be to disallow the Obscrul entering at any time other than setup, because of the multiple issues presented putting it on a level above Amnesiac, which has a similar problem

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i'm aware that this doesn't have any effect on this script in particular due to the only character change possible being Imp, however I tend to reuse ideas between homebrew scripts as I refine things (and there's really no sense in not reusing a good idea if it fits) so I like to design stuff to work in as many situations as possible

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also, it does stop people being like "🤪 what if i made the Obscrul's ability have "You might enter play at any time." in addition to some other stuff 🤪", which is like, a marginal benefit, but it does encourage Storytellers to only put in Obscrul with intention and purpose

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with a character that can theoretically do Anything I think it's paramount to make that as fair as possible

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i hope that helps!

gloomy kayak
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i think i really like this script too much it's got good concepts n stuff and i would love making like some mixing with it

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btw is the haruspex only once? cuz it sorta feels like a shot in the dark with no forseeable way of getting an immediate payoff

forest sorrel
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the haruspex always gets immediate payoff even if it "misses" by choosing someone who isn't the initial Demon; the way it works is that it chooses a player and knows they aren't a Demon

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they might still be a Minion, if they were swapped, but the person the Haruspex chose can never be the Demon

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you can think of it as a "you start knowing" character who chooses exactly what info they get

gloomy kayak
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i didnt see that perspective, i suppose that's quite valid
it's got a good amount of momentum with stuff

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the demons are so well written imo

runic lantern
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@forest sorrel i found a good way to enforce the invalid to follow thier rule

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Add the text

"If you dont, your team cant win as long as you live"

runic lantern
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Dose it work for you?

forest sorrel
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oh sorry! i legitimately forgot about this
it's a bit too late for me to fully consider it right now but i promise i will eventually, i greatly appreciate your help, though!

lone tusk
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@forest sorrel I know that it's such a specific situation, but wouldn't good benefit from the Rookie being executed in final 4?

forest sorrel
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no? the Rookie kill happens after the Demon's kill, executing the Rookie at F4 would still end the game in an evil victory

lone tusk
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Ah okay, cool

lone tusk
forest sorrel
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it depends on the situation, which is a bit of a weak answer: I think you should probably make a relatively bad kill in most cases, though

the one bit of advice I would give is not to kill the Silversmith before its' protection ability has procced (since that death wouldn't be the Demon's choice) unless absolutely necessary: that ability exists to give the Silversmith a higher chance to reach the final 3 and you probably shouldn't just shoot it down unless it's pretty much certain they're going to instantly kill the Demon

lone tusk
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Nah, that answer is fine. That's exactly what I was thinking so I was interested to see if that was as intended

lone tusk
forest sorrel
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i actually prefer it being confirmed, and I'll explain why: although the confirmation is theoretically strong, it's a final day only confirmation, and most notably it only comes into play at a point where it won't matter any more, because the Silversmith would never execute themselves

additionally, if a player bluffing Silversmith isn't confirmed on the final day, that doesn't necessarily mean they were evil, because the protection isn't absolute and, of course, Good players are incentivised to bluff (think about a Soldier bluffing Silversmith) and so it's a bluff that either a Minion or the Demon could use to get to the final day, even if it always falls apart right at the end

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the aim is to provide a tense variation on a final day where instead of trying to convince the grand jury of dead players, all players are aiming to convince the Silversmith that one of the other 2 players is evil

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that would be spoiled if the Silversmith's ability to decide the final day wasn't confirmed at daybreak

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oh, finally, I'd also like to note that for this script in particular there are rewards for evil claiming silversmith even for non-survivability reasons

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since dead votes wouldn't count on the final day due to the Silversmith being in control, a Silversmith claim can cover a Wight's dead vote or an attempt to turn a Deserter evil

lone tusk
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Ah, I see. It will be interesting to see it play out then. Those reasons do make sense

west karma
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.

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@forest sorrel I have a few questions when you're available

forest sorrel
west karma