Fall of Rome

[kind drift]

Meaning as an info role like mortician would rather be a bad omen

Than not

Good change i think bur still...

[upbeat palm]

I think there's interesting bluffing potential in the fact that a Glykon can't turn off the Bad Omen's falsehoods, though.

Btw... just thinking about strategy on this script..
..if you are suspected of being a minion, is it always advantageous to nominate your nominator to create confusion as to whether you are Augur or Glykon? Is it so advantageous that doing it might be an evil tell?

[sour shell]

I don’t think it’s enough to be a tell, because there are a variety of reasons to nominate in pairs as Good.

For one thing it’s a way for a Standard Bearer / Merchant / Scholar etc to get their thing to work without disclosing which thing they are.

Day 1 in particular, people will often have a reason to agree with someone else to nominate each other.

[sour shell]

@umbral hatch almanac notes continued:

Winemaker 2nd example, is it correct? “The Winemaker is neighbouring both Murphy and Ruth. On the first night the Winemaker is drunk. On the same night Murphy and Ruth learn arbitrary information.”

Why would the legionaries learn arbitrary information on the same night the Winemaker is drunk? Aren’t they drunk and learning arbitrary information on the nights that the Winemaker isn’t drunk?

Spartacus:

“As Bruce is good, evils guess it not used.”

Typo it => is, and also needs a possessive apostrophe (Evil’s guess).

[sour shell]

Bad Omen:

“ the Glykon themselves may falsely register alkignments…”

Typo, extra K.

“A player nominated by the Glykon must register as the opposite alignment, therefore this effects the answers given to a Bad Omen.”

This appears to suggest the opposite of what follows? I may be misreading it, in which case a rewording might still assist.

“If a Bad Omen is drunk, their ability continues to malfunction as if they were a Bad Omen.”

Abilities continue to malfunction because they don’t actually have the townsfolk ability, but presumably information is now arbitrary while drunk, instead of strictly false, because the drunkenness means the Bad Omen ability of falsity doesn’t function.

Whether I’m right or wrong, it would be useful to spell it out there.

Temptress:

“If the Temptress is drunk or poisoned, their ability does not work for that day. If a player with a SEDUCED token is executed whilst the Temptress is poisoned, remove the SEDUCED tokens. Neither player becomes evil.”

Presumably the second half of this should so reference ‘drunk or poisoned’, not just poisoned?

Haruspex:

“If the Haruspex is poisoned, they learn an arbitrary character for the chosen player.”

Presumably this should be drunk or poisoned. You might also want to specify that if the Haruspex chooses a person twice for the first time while droisoned the person wouldn’t die. I would assume, but it’s worth clarifying either way, that this would “use up” the Haruspex kill? Based on the core character text.

“If a player has a DEAD token by them from the Haruspex, the Haruspex can no longer kill any more players.”

If my assumption above is correct, this should be tied to the CAN’T KILL reminder token, not the DEAD token.

Crassus:

“Anne is the Temptress. Before nominations, Crassus did not publicly claim to be Spartacus. During nominations, Crassus is executed and dies. As they did not publicly claim to be Spartacus today, good wins and the game is over.”

What is the relevance of Anne being the Temptress here? Seems like a hangover from a previous version. Delete that bit.

Presumably a Bad Omen (or another Glykon-nominated Good player) can become Crassus, in which case they would be a Good Crassus? Like the Imp-Recluse situation. Is it worth mentioning this for completeness? Possibly unnecessary…

Hannibal:

“On the first night, the Minions wake together and are shown the Hannibal token. The Storyteller then points to Esme and Brandy. Both Brandy and Connor are Hannibal.”

Esme was the previous paragraph, this should be Connor.

Caesar:

“Avery is the evil Mortician, after being turned by the Temptress. At the end of nominations, Avery is executed and dies. At night, Caesar chooses 1 players, they die. Because Avery is now evil, they can grant Caesar an extra kill that night.”

Presumably that should be 2 players, not 1.

[sour shell]

Another Caesar bit which might explain my false memory: the initial description says something different from the actual text:

“Caesar kills a player each night and if a Minion died by execution today, they kill another.”

[nova violet]

I think this might be a leftover from a previous version of Ceasar (before I broke it and Alex nerfed it 🙈)

[rotund iris]

How was the old version broken?

[nova violet]

I just got my minions killed each day and got two kills each night and won

Not quite broken but it scaled in player count

[twilit rampart]

Hi everyone, can anyone provide a link for the artwork for the character and reminder tokens so I can produce my own pls?

[reef linden]

I would like to note another inconsistency which is in the role of the Scholar.

The token says: "The 1st time you nominate a living Outsider, they immediately become a not-in-play Townsfolk. [+1 Outsider]"

This is false and should say: "The 1st time you nominate a living Outsider, they become a not-in-play Townsfolk that night [+1 Outsider]"

[maiden wyvern]

They immediately become the Townsfolk, that's supposed to be there

If a Scholar nominates the Spartacus, they become a Townsfolk. If an evil player then guesses the old Spartacus, it's incorrect, if i recall correctly.

[reef linden]

then the Almanac is incorrect, one or the other needs to be updated

Almanac says "place the reminder token then change the character that night"

[maiden wyvern]

They change immediately, so yeah, the almanac would be wrong in that case

[sour shell]

This was my suggestion. One or the other is wrong, I think keeping it immediate has better interactions so the how to run should be changed.

[sour shell]

IMO it’s the Almanac that should be changed as above, but yes.

[nova violet]

Yeah I think what the almanac means is to inform the player that night, it should be updated

[coarse elm]

Our stream ran Fall of Rome last night and we noticed a few things that I'm just gonna put here:

• While other reminder tokens were updated with the recent app changes to limit reminder tokens, the Spartacus reminder is limited to just one placement, so we had to use custom reminders to track all of the Spartacus claims. If this token is meant to be duplicated for all claims, it would, in the largest case scenario (full 20 players, with 5 travelers, which means half of 15 rounded up) requires 8 Spartacus reminders to be allowed to be placed.

• An interaction that might be good to have under either character's examples so players are sure about how to run it: I was the Physician unknowingly choosing the Blacksmith several nights. If the Blacksmith was attacked, if I'm not mistaken, my ability would ensure they are sober and healthy and able to survive and change characters, but would they count as being killed by the demon that night? Would the Physician learn the Demon type? I was presuming no, but I want to be sure the intended interaction.

• Similar to what others were pointing out above, we were also confused on Scholar interaction timings. It seemed to be to be that the Scholar changes characters immediately but the player is informed they have changed (presumably first thing) the following night? We weren't sure because night reminders and the almanac seem like the change itself is at night, but the ability text's "immediately" conflicted that reading. (We figured this conflict was due to a change at some point in the script that wasn't reconciled in the text everywhere yet.)

[twilit rampart]

Thanks Thomas

[crystal heart]

Gave +1 Thanks to @upbeat oriole

[umbral hatch]

Apologies for the silence, as I’ve been camping for the last 4 days (& playing Clocktower - and in person FoR)!

I should have replied to everyone whose messaged me, let me know if I haven’t.

I also have acknowledged some of the almanac suggestions, and JSON tweaks. Will be updated accordingly.

[coarse elm]

I just realized the JSON already had the Spartacus thing I mentioned in it. Turns out the issue was with the app and has been fixed this latest update:

fixed reminder token limit not being calculated correctly for homebrew Fabled (thanks @!patters) and global reminders (thanks @!Mr. Cuddles)

[solemn merlin]

Recently ran my first couple of games IRL. Made a really dumb mistake the first night of the first game and forgot to tell the two Temptress-picked players they were seduced. Thankfully, it didn't have a major impact on the game as the Temptress was executed mid-game, and both seduced players made it to final 3 alive. Haruspex used their extra kill ASAP on the Actor before they could get their info. Unfortunately, they also spent their Spartacus guess on the Winemaker on the first day before the WM was executed. The Standard Bearer was a bit shy to ask for nominations at first, but finally got some info mid-game. The Merchant learned that the Temptress was their only nominator, but was uncertain if they were drunk that night from the Winemaker. The Centurion never tried to push for an alt win, and claimed Spartacus most days. Spartacus outed on the final day, hoping evil had already made their guess. Crassus never star-passed, but did make it to final 3, and was executed for a good win.

The second game featured two players thinking they were each Legionary, but one was Hannibal and the other a Bad Omen. Interestingly, the Glykon was seated in between them, so I gave the Hannibal-Legionary a 0 all game, and the Bad Omen a 4 most of the game (having the Glykon register as good for both.) The Augur bluffed as Standard Bearer and made a couple of extra Bad Omens. The Merchant-Hannibal was executed on the penultimate day and outed the final day, which included the Legionary-Hannibal, Glykon, and Bad Omen Legionary. The BO Legionary nominated the Glykon player, thinking they were the demon being cleared by the other minion "Legionary", and evil won.

[umbral hatch]

Amazing! 2 very close games then!

I like the setups you went for. Very fun!

[crisp mango]

I ran an in-person tonight, didn't get a grim shot afterwards. 9 player, Crassus and Temptress on evil, Crassus hunted down like a dog and killed on 4. We had an interesting situation develop where both Tempted players outed, then town trusted them (helped by one being a Scholar who hit a Winemaker) and it narrowed the scope of worlds considerably.

I'd anticipate that if outing at Tempted like that gets too strong for good evil will start false-claiming it more. Even in that game one of the two evils could have jumped on the grenade there and claimed to be Tempted too, create three-way confusion.

[crisp mango]

Hannibal did show his chops as a presence on the script, one day we had two players dead-certain that they were both Hannibal, each self-nominating to try to die first so that they could win with good.

[dusty pollen]

photos from a recent grim early on the game… thought having five reminder tokens at one point on a Legionary was amusing. My group was still getting their heads around how it works as it definitely has a different feel from any other script out there

[rotund iris]

So bizarrely it seems the new script having the good / evil character split breaks it on the old clocktower.online app

I can't really imagine why that's the case but it does

oh you made a version for clocktower.online I see now

fair enough fair enough

[zinc furnace]

the json has 2 image files where the old app is expecting 1

[rotund iris]

could've easily structured the json so it wouldn't be backwards incompatible but wcyd

on the app

[zinc furnace]

no? if there weren't 2 image files then it wouldn't work on the new app properly

[rotund iris]

yeah you just stick the second url in a different field instead of putting in the same field as an array

[zinc furnace]

the app wouldn't be able to use that without the app being changed

[gentle viper]

Can anyone point me in the direction of the most up-to-date JSON? The only one i can find doesnt let me add multiple legionaries

[rotund iris]

#1030804651085402142 message

its not pinned

[gentle viper]

Thanks heaps!

[crystal heart]

Gave +1 Thanks to @rotund iris

[red lion]

Ran an in person 8 player + Architect Crassus game. The highlight was the good Architect picking the demon on night 2. Spartacus had been nominated by the Glykon, so I could turn Crassus into Caeser to get two kills. Any other demon felt too harsh for the evil team.
The good team figured it out on the final day.

[umbral hatch]

Amazing!

Architect is a lot of fun. Whichever team they belong to!

Love the tokens. Is that a plastic token, with the PNP stuck to the front? @red lion

[red lion]

Yes, I use 2" felt circle stickers and 2" PETG discs. And I print the tokens on adhesive paper.

[umbral hatch]

Awesome - looks great!

[crisp mango]

Played two in-person games today, both Spartacus wins for Evil. I used my laptop as a virtual grim and my phone with the almanac pulled up to show any characters I needed to to players.

First game I didn't get a grim shot before clearing it, but it was a Hannibal game where mostly Hannibals and Minions claimed Spartacus during the first day, then I killed one of the other claims during the night (oops), and by process of elimination the Haruspex shot his shot and boom win for evil.

Second game (this grim) was a bit closer. Good info roles were doing work, Physician found out it was Crassus, Standard Bearer cleared a few people, Trumpeter was getting mostly-good info plus or minus some Glykon shenanigans. Crassus star-passed to the Glykon, then the Mortician (another power role that game) immediately pointed the finger at him, and Evil guessed Spartacus with their demon on the block.

(I couldn't find the Spartacus fabled reminder tokens (I realize now because I'd wiped the Fabled off the grim at some point while I was fiddling with setup), so "Good" was "I am Spartacus!”)

[crisp mango]

I did feel like I was being a clever goose the Hannibal game, I made one Hannibal the Scholar and the other the "extra" outsider (Twins).

[vestal relic]

Tried this with a group of friends.
Haruspex chose Spartacus n1....

Twice in a row...

Is this an intentional interaction or am I doing something wrong?

I feel like im doing something wrong

Please help

[umbral hatch]

Did you lie to the Haruspex?

(Cause Spartacus has that built in for N1)

[vestal relic]

It does?

Oh

OK so I am doing something wrong

[umbral hatch]

Yep! So in the Almanac it notes Haruspex picking Spartacus n1.

Basically, Spartacus stipulates wether it claims it during the day. If it hasn’t claimed it, it doesn’t get the extra ability.

However, because the wording stipulates that if it doesn’t claim it, it doesn’t register as a Townsfolk. That would mean n1, it hasn’t not claimed it because there has been no day yet - so because the game just started, Spartacus technically hasn’t had the opportunity to claim it, therefore meaning it hasn’t not claimed Spartacus. It’s a mouthful, but it’s worded that way to limit the character text count.

I don’t like writing ‘hasn’t not’ but hopefully that makes sense.

[vestal relic]

Ahhhhhh

[zinc furnace]

i made the same mistake once

[keen urchin]

When using this script with the official online, how do you select multiple legionary?

[fading pewter]

If you're using the latest json version, you should be able to do just that

[solemn merlin]

If you click on the Legionary it should give you a prompt below the token to select multiples (e.g. x2)

[keen urchin]

Not seeing the prompt

[keen urchin]

I used this one, from the pin: https://www.bloodstar.xyz/p/AlexS/Fall_of_Rome/script.json?924ea6cc

[umbral hatch]

Use the downloadable file here.

@keen urchin

[keen urchin]

Thanks. That one worked.

[humble pecan]

k

[restive kayak]

Is a Bad Omen sculptor shown a wrong sculpture?

[hidden cloak]

No

I forget the exact logic, but I do know the answer

[restive kayak]

Okay then

Yeah technically the sculpture isn't info

[solemn merlin]

A Sculptor who starts the game as the Bad Omen still starts knowing a player (their sculpture). They just learn the opposite (false) alignment of the most recent nomination by their sculpture. Similarly, if a Sculptor is turned into a Bad Omen they will begin learning false/opposite info of sculpture-nominated players.

[restive kayak]

great, thanks!

[upbeat palm]

I believe that the logic is that showing the Sculptor the Statue is just telling them "this player". There's no real way to invert that, unless you want to be silly and show them the Storyteller, or all players except the statue. The actual info that they learn is about who their statue nominated, which requires them to have been shown a statue in the first place.

[upper blaze]

If a sober/healthy **Gladiator **declares a duel during the day, but is drunk at night (Twins, Glykon, Winemaker, whatever), what happens?

Do you not wake them, or you would & go through the roshambo to find the winner, but no one can die as a result of the ability?

[tawdry thorn]

In that situation, the Duel would not happen, and the ability would still be considered spent.

[runic umbra]

1. Can a Bad Omen in play register as a true evil character to a Vestal Virgin?

2. Can a Bad Omen be named as the false evil character in a Vestal Virgin’s info?

3. Is either generally a good idea?

[tawdry thorn]

1. No, because the Bad Omen can only register as evil, not also as a minion or demon (like the recluse).

2. I also asked Alex this during some earlier playtesting! It was also decided on a no here, because the Bad Omen is a good character, with a Blue token inherently. Similarly, a Dreamer can't pick a Recluse and be shown Investigator / Recluse, because the ability is asking for specifically a Blue and Red character token, as does the Vestal Virgin here.

3. I'd say they're definitely great and interesting questions, having wondered about them myself before as well! 🙂

[runic umbra]

Yeah. I’m just trying to think about which Vestal virgin characters would get shown. I imagine it’s like Bounty Hunter logic. You generally don’t show Demons first except for maybe Crassus or Hannibal

At the very least, you wouldn’t expect to see Cleopatra or Caesar in the first round of info

Oh I also forgot. A good character turned by the Tenptress also can’t register to Vestal Virgin as evil character either, though they can be the “good” character

Do some Fall of Rome STs show Cleopatra or Caesar in the first info pair, since it’s perfectly valid to get one round of info/get Glykon messed with?

[tawdry thorn]

As a big fan of seeing players develop the "Am-I-Hannibal?"-Paranoia, it can be an interesting one to show. There's usually no "wrong" first evil character to show to a Vestal, because there's plenty of reasons that starting info could be messed with anyways. I believe I've usually shown a minion first, but have shown a demon first as well. I'd say - go with the character that seems the most interesting to show?

(Although maaaaybe I'd advise not showing the in-play demon as the first info unless specifically Hannibal or Crassus)

Yep a temptress turned player would be a sneaky way to show a "Good character" for sure

[tawdry thorn]

I think I've done one of those! I've also seen Hannibal be shown first to both a sober Vestal & Vestal Virgin Hannibal. The potential for the info to be wrong can keep any role you show interesting I think!

[runic umbra]

Oh right! Hannibal can think they are an in play character! Like a more advanced Lunatic

[tawdry thorn]

Oh whoops, I meant in two seperate games, I saw Hannibal shown once to a Vestal Virgin, and once to a Vestal who was actually Hannibal.

Hannibal typically shouldn't be shown an in play role (except for Legionary 😉), as you can't really prep the draw bag in real life that way - apologies if I caused any confusion there!

[runic umbra]

Ok that’s fine. I guess the online format has spoiled me a bit about showing Lunatic demons. But Lunatic works in real life because one player is supposed to know they are evil and that the other thinks they are something different

You can’t really do that with two characters who are supposed to think they’re good (except Legionary as you mentioned)

[runic umbra]

One more quick reminder. Can you give Legionairry as a bluff if there are less than 3 Legionairry?

[upbeat palm]

I'll be interested to see Alex and Ryan's replies to that, but personally I'd rule no.

...on the basis that, if you show legionary, then evil wants certainty whether it's safe for all of them to claim it.

...also, the card says "these characters are not in play", not "some instances of these characters are not in play".

[runic umbra]

fair. i just wondered if evil always had to bluff legionairry as a +0. But in retrospect, evil knowing there is legionairy means they can also choose to fake +1 or even +2. it just ensures that you cant give evil a legionairry bluff they dont know how to handle, as you said

[umbral hatch]

I’m in agreement with your ruling. You cannot show a Legionary as a bluff if there is one in play. I would even go as far to say I would avoid showing it as a bluff if there is a Legionary Bad Omen.

[upbeat palm]

...a Legionary Bad Omen plus two Legionary Hannibals, on the other hand... 😉

[runic umbra]

How to make a Legion game in Fall of Rome: A Tutorial

[teal path]

Im kinda sad that the hannibal changes make it so that STs have to pick kills, which is usually the kinda script im least excited to run.

[indigo fiber]

Is there a printer-friendly PDF of the latest version of the script? I can only find two separate PNGs

[ruby shore]

doesn't take too long to turn those PNGs into a PDF

[indigo fiber]

Thanks!

[crystal heart]

Gave +1 Thanks to @ruby shore

[pale viper]

Hey! Just read this change to the Glykon, love that it poisons Townsfolk and not Outsiders anymore, but is it intentional that it also now poisons Tempted Evil Townsfolk?

[upbeat palm]

Yeah, it's a shame, but it was just too strong for evil when the minions chose - you tended to end up with all-evil final 5s (or even final 6s, with a lucky temptress and a large player count) a lot of the time

[umbral hatch]

I’m not too worried about that interaction. I think the Glykon may have a good idea of who the Temptress turned players are, so potentially not that likely that will occur.

[pale viper]

Oh I mean for intentionally misregistering them good

[umbral hatch]

Ah that - I find that quite a fun interaction. same as nominating any evil player

[pale viper]

Right, but they are now poisoned if they go for that with the tempted player

I mean it’s kind of a win more scenario if that does happen but the fact that it can’t means that it also doesn’t exist in worldbuilding when it isn’t

[upbeat palm]

There's not a vast number of townsfolk that will mind being poisoned once they're evil - it's probably the Gladiator and the Centurion at most. All the others, once evil, will probably just lie about their info anyway.

[umbral hatch]

I’m not worried about the draw back of a Poisoned evil TF. It’s the equivalent of a Mez turned player being Poisoned by a Poisoner.

[pale viper]

I would argue that functioning tempted gladiator and centurion do matter a decent amount, and them being backed up by recent good info is desirable in tandem

But I understand that it’s a niche thing and the power level of Glykon is fine either way

(I’m just asking because of secret project)

[vestal relic]

Spartacus does not specify publically, as damsel does- how does spartacus guesses work?

[umbral hatch]

I would recommend running it publicly 👍

“I claim Evil and guess so so as Spartacus”

[sour shell]

Further, although the role description doesn't say publicly (no doubt for brevity), everything in the How to Run and Examples sections of the Almanac says publicly.

https://www.bloodstar.xyz/p/AlexS/Fall_of_Rome/almanac.html#spartacus_fall_of_rome

[upbeat palm]

Two fun interactions that came up in a game last weekend:

• mercenary gains the ability of a Legionary. The last Legionary dies that night. Mercenary can learn " ♾️ " or " 🤷‍♂️ ".

• Ceaser gets two kills, and chooses one of the Physician's patients, followed by the Physician. Read as written, I believe the Physician gets to wake up in between kills to learn that Ceaser is in play!

(Although that second interpretation is not officially endorsed so far...)

[sour shell]

1. is interesting! I might just give them the same information as if they were actually a Legionary themself, rather than a non-Legionary with the Legionary ability, i.e. tell them the total number of Evil players other than them.

If they are Good, this could alternatively be justified by going infinitely round but never counting someone twice.

If they are Evil, the two non-duplicative counting approaches give different results.

I do quite like the infinity/non-compute answer as a point of amusement, but I feel telling them "there are no alive Legionaries" is less useful than actually given them Evil counts and probably less fun for the player. I might gauge how my player would react before deciding.

Definitely worth clarifying the basis of your answer if the first!

2. I would definitely rule that both Caesar kills happen consecutively while Caesar is awake, so the Physician doesn't get to wake to gain that info. Otherwise you hard-confirm to Caesar that the second kill was the Physician, or have to put them to sleep and wait every time they aren't.

[upbeat palm]

Oh, you wouldn't put Caeser to sleep. It's the same way you'd rule Al Had/Shab with ravenkeeper - take all the choices, then play out the effects.

[sour shell]

Ah ok, makes more sense now!

[sour shell]

@umbral hatch Mercenary point that came up in @restive kayak's live text game.

You have two Mercenary travellers. One travels away. What happens to the other?

The Almanac doesn't cover it. We know if one is exiled, so is the other. The Demon and Haruspex in theory could kill one while the other was alive, but that seems unlikely to be common (better to target a Good non-traveller player most of the time). They are designed to play together.

My gut reaction was: forcing someone to travel out just because another person has travelled out isn't fun, the game and Travellers are designed to allow people to play as much as possible and be inclusive, so the Merc partner has to be allowed to stay. But the Mercenaries are designed to be "alive" together. So => the other Merc becomes auto-exiled on their mercenary partner travelling away, but remains.

Obviously there's nothing in the rules/Almanac to cover it, but it felt right. Admittedly thoughts and feelings late at night in the chaos of a live text game...

I haven't played with them before mind. Maybe best and intended as RAW, for the player to remain un-exiled.

Your thoughts?

[tawdry thorn]

Alex and I discussed a ruling for this when we first ran a pair of them but I don't remember the consensus. I think if I remember right - if 1 travels away, the other, if still alive, would be exiled and so from then on be "dead".

They wouldn't be forced to also travel out though

A demon killing one merc also doesnt result in the other merc dying, but you're right that then the dead one could "travel away" to ensure the death of the living one.

We definitely reached a ruling on it but I'm struggling to remember specifically what it was. As it turns out, the demon in that game did kill one of the mercy's, so it definitely came up in discussion specifically like that.

[sour shell]

Thanks! And yes this is what felt right as a ruling, particularly with no time to consider fully.

[crystal heart]

Gave +1 Thanks to @tawdry thorn

[sour shell]

Ah interesting. I wonder what game state prompted the Merc Demon kill!

[tawdry thorn]

@nova violet as the demon that game, any chance you remember how we ruled it regarding a killed merc "traveling away" to force the exile on the living one?

[nova violet]

Hm

[nova violet]

while I try to remember the answer to Ryan’s question I had two kills, using one on a Merc didn’t give town an extra execution, and I was worried the Merc was going to gain a very useful ability or something that outed me as demon

I think it was something along the lines of what both of you are saying, that if one Merc traveled away the other would die

[sour shell]

Makes sense!

[nova violet]

That was the same game I got Caesar nerfed because I had two kills almost every night lol

[sour shell]

Aha, yes, I recall seeing about the previous Caesar and that line of play 😂

[umbral hatch]

Thanks for the question @sour shell .

As me and Ryan have found out, Mercenaries are quite finnacky!

I agree with Ryan’s rulings here. Here are some points from the author to help give some insight:

1. Mercenaries are designed for those that are arriving late together or leaving early together. For this reason, they are designed for the intent of neither player travelling away without the other. Because of this, the predicament of a single Mercenary travelling shouldn’t really occur.

2. Despite the idea of them travelling away together. Town can absolutely exile one of them if they feel like the evil one is causing too much chaos!

3. Naturally Mercenaries may be discovered as to what alignment each is. Some of the evil abilities can be loud, and the evil Mercenary may be discovered from this. This is absolutely fine - as we have the caveat built in. If players do wish to exile the evil one, the good one must go with.

4. Much like many travellers, they can be targeted at night. I wouldn’t be surprised to see either of the Mercenaries killed in future games… as they are very strong social characters. They can confirm information, or even players. If a Mercenary were to die at night, the other does not. If the dead Mercenary was exiled for whatever reason, the other Mercenary would be too.

5. Regarding point 1. If a Mercenary for any reason has to travel away, this would also exile the other Mercenary. Again, this is not what the Mercenaries are intrinsically built for. If you sense one of the two players is likely going to have to dip, I would suggest running two different Travellers, rather then pairing them together as Mercenaries.

Hope this helps!

[crystal heart]

Gave +1 Thanks to @tawdry thorn

[ruby shore]

If the Sculptor is the Bad Omen, do they learn a false Sculpture?

[restive kayak]

They don't! I've asked it before, here is the answer I was given there

[ruby shore]

ty!!

[kind berry]

How do I stop this

[umbral hatch]

Make sure that you have enabled custom images in the settings.

[kind berry]

I did that

And all the images are blank

[umbral hatch]

Make sure it’s ticked on - then refresh?

[kind berry]

Yeah

Ah refreshing it fixed t

Such a solution

[kind berry]

If the temptress picks themselves and gets executed does the other becomes evil

[umbral hatch]

They do not. As the Temptress ability is no longer in play.

[kind berry]

Thought so

[upbeat palm]

The temptress is free to pick a fellow minion or Hannibal, though!

(Or another demon... I guess you could do a clever play with a temptress turn and a crass-pass to another minion at the same time?)

[umbral hatch]

“Star-Passus”

[upbeat palm]

stella transit

[wheat garden]

The Temptress wouldn’t know the Demon’s character at the time of their choice, unfortunately. Although a Mercenary-Temptress could fulfil that effect without guessing blindly, I suppose.

[upbeat palm]

Yes, it would be a 1 in 3 blind shot!

(The Mercenary better act fast, of course - that ability might not stick around)

[umbral hatch]

Almanac

Hi all! Something kind of different here.

With v.1.9 looking like the complete and final iteration of Fall of Rome, I'm looking to publish an official Almanac to go alongside it!

I'm not the best one in comes to writing the finer things in life, like the Scholars of old. So, instead I'm putting out a loud Trumpeters call! I'm looking for some keen Fall of Rome fans, that would be willing to review and help add to the existing online Almanac. The plan is to take the text over from Bloodstar, and publish our own PDF version, which will be freely available to download by the community. I don't have much to offer other than eternal gratitude (and never guessing you as Spartacus), but if this is something that interests you please let me know (either here, or preferably through private message).

Existing almanac found here: https://www.bloodstar.xyz/p/AlexS/Fall_of_Rome/almanac.html

Many thanks,

Your humble storyteller, often found impaled on the forum's sundial.

Alex S

[indigo fiber]

In Bad Omen's How to Run: 'alkignments' instead of 'alignments'
In Mortician Examples: 'jesters' instead of 'gestures'

[sour shell]

Definitely willing! Albeit a bit stuck for time right now, going forward yes.

There are a fair number of Almanac review points from me further up this thread already, but will, when things IRL calm down, have another go through.

[umbral hatch]

Amazing, thank you Contra! I thought you might be willing to lend a hand.

I’ll follow up with you in the coming days.

[maiden wyvern]

This is likely the smallest thing ever, but in the How to Run section there’s a single apostrophe missing 😭 It should be Vestal Virgin’s

[kind berry]

Literally unplayable

[kind berry]

it seems a lot of people

are encountering this issue

with images

when the json is loaded

seems quite strange

[kind berry]

https://i.gyazo.com/5fcc2bb0bf5f25dda15a2e250668fc50.jpg

[umbral hatch]

Weird - are you using the correct JSON. And not the one used for the official app?

[kind berry]

yes

I used this one?

[umbral hatch]

So that’s for the official app. I would recommend using the Bloodstar link instead. That shouldn’t give any complications.

The link here 🙂

[kind berry]

weird

ok

wish I knew this when I st'd earlier today xD

[umbral hatch]

It’s because the official app JSON had the built in good and evil character tokens for each character, which makes it bug out for the Clocktower.online tool.

[kind berry]

still not working

nvm

[umbral hatch]

Disable, then rein-able, and then refresh

[kind berry]

5 refresh fixes it

this is so strange

why is it like this

I have played other homebrews before

I guess it has to do with so many images

[umbral hatch]

It’s because of this.

[kind berry]

yeah

[umbral hatch]

Other home-brews will likely not have that.

[kind berry]

thanks for the help

[crystal heart]

Gave +1 Thanks to @umbral hatch

[umbral hatch]

No worries - enjoy 🙂

[kind berry]

storytelling irl was so difficult

without playing it first

I was losing my mind haha

I had a legionary a bad omen legionary and a hannibal legionary

[umbral hatch]

Quite the set up. Yeah a few games of playing and running online, and you get into the rhythm

[kind berry]

also I found it quite difficult to run gladiator in person

but besdies that everyone in my group had a lot of fun

[umbral hatch]

I think explaining what will happen at night before the game for Gladiator may make things easier.

Glad you had a lot of fun!

[runic umbra]

Lol you did that setup too?

[kind berry]

yep 💀

[kind berry]

So I got a printing place to print some scripts

They messed up the order so I have 15 night order sheets but they still look great though

And they will fix my order up

If anyone lives in Sydney and wants a fall of Rome night order sheet

Let me know

👨‍🍳

[sour shell]

Ratios aside, looks good though! Are they double-sided?

[kind berry]

Yes

[sour shell]

What did you put on the back of the scripts? I presume the two night sheets are together.

[umbral hatch]

This second image here @sour shell

That is the backing of the script.

[sour shell]

Ah of course, thanks! I remember seeing this now, but forgot as I hadn't downloaded/saved it (I only printed the printer-friendly versions you kindly made, and kept the proper ones for digital only at the time).

[crystal heart]

Gave +1 Thanks to @umbral hatch

[umbral hatch]

Hi all,

(… and apologies for the ping - but I find this quite pertinent <@&1064981854119276654> )

Not quite the message I wanted to put out. This message is more so to raise awareness and inform, and obviously does not pertain to the vast majority of this amazing community.

To the point in hand.
I am aware that there is an individual selling physical copies of Fall of Rome, and I believe official Blood on the Clocktower characters. I find the idea of someone profiting off my hardwork quite sickening and disrespectful. Work I put many hours into developing, as well as putting my own money and resources into.

The script throughout its lifetime has been public, and in my mind a part of the community- and I have shared freely every update, every print and play, and everything extra that comes along with Fall of Rome. This is critically a fan creation… for the community… and not for profit.

I ask that anyone who is looking for a physical copy to not purchase anything of the sorts online. Again, the print and play is freely available to those that contact me.

I hope you can all understand where I am coming from. If you have any queries feel free to message me.

Thanks,
Alex

[earnest steppe]

That's really unfortunate news to hear Alex. As someone who has a copy of the print and play that I've crafted myself, I'm really grateful for your time and effort you've put into developing it. My regular group requests it every so often and we always have fun with it. I just wanted to say publicly, thank you for giving us that gift freely and it's not right that someone should choose to profit off your work like this.

[vestal relic]

Ah that sucks that someone is trying to sell off your work. But so long as there are good, creative, and nice people there will always be bad, uncreative, and profit-modivated people (or else conceptially all of those words have no meaning if there is nothing to compare it too)

Hope everything is alright! I think I speak for most of the community here (I can't be sure) when I say that we know you spent a lot of time and effort into this project, and it's really come to bloom and grown into this amazing script that even Ben Burns has got around to running. (or playing I can't remember)

Still, great work!
Why pay for a pirated copy when you can get it for free from the original creator anyways
This is a creative work that we know you've spent a lot of time on, and we are here to support you ❤️

[sour shell]

Really sorry to hear that, horrid that someone would try to profit off your hard work!

[still ridge]

Question about scholar. Does the nominated outsider IMMEDIATELY become a townsfolk or first thing in the night?

[umbral hatch]

Immediately.

They learn first thing at night.

[hidden cloak]

So if they become SB and they make a statement they don’t have to wait a day

Although there are a few complex examples

What happens if they turn into merchant and they have been nommed before? When they use their ability, do they learn about everyone, or just since they got the ability?

[umbral hatch]

Funny you mentioned that -as an updated almanac is on its way and this has been included.

A Merchant will only be able to check the nominators that have nominated them since becoming the Merchant.

The reason for this?: The player was not the Merchant when they were nominated previously. IRL the Storyteller is only able to place ‘Nominated’ reminder tokens when they happen. If a Merchant was to be created later in the game, it becomes very difficult for the ST to remember who has nominated them.

[hidden cloak]

Makes sense

[rare spade]

I played "Fall of Rome" about 6 times with my party 10+ people. We tried all the demons and characters. I came to the conclusion that the key difference between this scenario and other BoTC standard ones is that in it good players do not need to execute anyone during the day. All the roles here are very strong, they get a lot of information every day. The fewer executions there are, the longer it takes the Demon to win. Usually within 4-5 days there is enough information to understand who the Demon is and to purposefully execute him alone. There is no Vortox, most info is always correct and there are no need to execute each day someone.

That is, we have a general strategy in our company - not to execute anyone at all. Everyone nominates a lot for the sake of game mechanics, but they don’t vote. And so far it seems to be very effective strategy for good.
What are the reasons to execute someone during the day? Well, except for two roles that receive information from the execution: Mortician and Vestal Virgin.

The second conclusion - Hannibal is the best demon ever!

[upbeat palm]

Suggeated counters to the "never execute" strategy - have lots of hannibal/cleo games. Perhaps even do the really cruel thing of pairing Cleo with a Glykon and an Augur.. ...and warn town in advance that you'll count Bad Omens as evil for Cleo's win condition.

...With absolutely everyone nominating, 4-5 days should be enough for Cleo to pick off the entire town by herself!

[umbral hatch]

Also plenty of misinformation is available in FoR. Sure, not executing gives Town more information, but this also gives evil more chance to mess with it and consolidate their bluffs. If you are never executing for good to get more info, you are also never killing evils.

[languid snow]

(real)

[still ridge]

does vestal virgin learn info every night if the conditions are fulfilled?

or just twice

[umbral hatch]

Every time the condition is fulfilled.

[stark nymph]

Decent turnout apart from vestal so far

[vestal relic]

👀

Atleast your not printing out NWC cause then youd need like 13 brainwasher tokens or something

[stark nymph]

future

If I’m paying tuition for free laser cutting I want my worth

[winged otter]

Officially at 69 ❤️ reacts

[indigo fiber]

Nice

[umbral hatch]

Big milestone

[upbeat palm]

lix

[restive kayak]

It's 70 now😞

[upbeat palm]

Taken mine off to fix it

[lost ibex]

IT SHALL NEVER FALL

[still ridge]

If a physician picks hannibal, must i give them correct info according to what they think they are?

[sour shell]

Yes

As will be clarified in the new almanac Alex is producing, misregistration still happens if required (Glykon nomination targets) or you so choose (Glykon and Bad Omen self alignment, apply with caution), but having applied those it must be accurate information, just like any other character picked by the Physician.

[still ridge]

I'm confused abt the Emperor. It says, each day it can affect 1st execution. How can there be multiple executions in a single day ?

[ruby shore]

Sybil can cause a second one

[broken salmon]

I've only played this a few times (really liking it!) but one misunderstanding has already shown itself repeatedly: many players tend to read Legionary's setup effect as [+0 or +2 Legionary], leading to unnecessary mistakes. Players eventually learn, of course, but maybe it would be helpful to just put [+0, +1 or +2 Legionary]? (I'm guessing a dash like in [+0–2 Legionary] looks too much like a minus)

[languid lynx]

And if we are already talking about Legionary: My understanding currently with multiple Legionaries is that they always learn the number of evil players between the next living Leginoray. Is that correct? Because from a lot of stuff from the Almanac reads to me like it, however, the ability itself leaves room for interpretation.

To clarify further: I assume that I cannot give the player on seat 4 a 1, because there is an evil player between him and the Legionary on seat 11, correct?

[umbral hatch]

Glad you are enjoying it!

To not beat round the Italian shrubbery, the main reason it is like that is likely to save text. The other reason is it follows in suit with existing character text like Godfather. I see how some people may mistake the to as an or. Luckily, in terms of setup, using it as an or still provides a valid setup. So if any Storyteller realises that they’ve added in 2, when they could have just added in 1, it’s nothing to worry about.

I appreciate you bringing this to my attention.

[umbral hatch]

Correct - they learn to the next living Legionary in a clockwise fashion. They do not learn the alignment of the next living Legionary in this number, just the players say in between.

[umbral hatch]

In this scenario, and making some assumptions as I can only see half the Grimoire.

The Legionary on seat 11, would learn a 1. As the Haruspex is sat between them and the Legionary on seat 1.

The Legionary on seat 1, would learn a 0, as only good players sit between them and the Legionary on seat 4.

Lastly, the Legionary on seat 4 would likely learn a 2 (in a non Hannibal game) or a 3 (in a Hannibal game). That’s assuming the remaining evils are sat on or between Seat 5 to Seat 9, and also not including any Bad Omen or Glykon shenanigans.

[broken salmon]

Yeah, and I totally get that! It's more of a player thing, where they build worlds where there are either 1 or 3 Legionaries, but never 2

If the description is already borderline too long, there's not much to do about it, of course

[languid lynx]

Yeah, perfect... That happens when you prepare an example quickly and then confuse clockwise and counterclockwise 🙈 But you answered my question perfectly and everything is clear now. What do you think about adding "next" to the Token text? Just to avoid the possible confusion? So "Each night, you learn how many living evil players are sat clockwise between yourself and the next living Legionary. [+0 to +2 Legionary]"

[umbral hatch]

I can see how that does provide a little more clarification. Unfortunately, as per the other comment above regarding Legionary. We are quite tight on character text.

However I will say that a new fancy almanac is on its way. With updated examples, how to run, all available to hopefully provide the Storyteller more clarity when running these characters.

[languid lynx]

Okay, get it. Thanks for the quick response!

[crystal heart]

Gave +1 Thanks to @umbral hatch

[languid lynx]

Another Question: If the person that is shown to the twin dies, does "The Twin" ability still work another time for itself?

[vestal relic]

Yes

[languid lynx]

So, we played our first Fall of Rome game yesterday, and it was a blast! A truly amazing script. However, as usual, I came back with some questions; I hope it's fine to put them here in a collected form:

1. For the Standard Bearer, how clearly must he state that he is the Standard Bearer? Yesterday, our player tried to "slip" the statement into his defense, so I was wondering if that is valid.
2. How much flexibility do you allow in Standard Bearer statements about references to other players in the circle? While, for example, "The person who nominated me sits between at least one evil player" was disputable, I think it gets unfair if stuff like "The person who nominated me sits 3 steps clockwise next to the Demon." What is intended here?
3. The last question is less a rules question than a "How to ST" question: How to balance the Hannibal kills? In Lil Monsta games, the wiki gives advice to try to guide the game in a way that there is one minion and two goodies in the final three. My assumption is that this is because of the difficulty for good to track down the player holding the token. I am wondering if you would try to achieve the same for a Hannibal. When do you start to kill minions? And do you also want to ensure that only Hannibal is left in the final three? My feeling is that this is not how a regular Demon would kill.

[sour shell]

1. Public claims (in general BotC, not specific to Fall of Rome) ought to be made such that everyone can hear it and everyone can understand what you're doing. Note that this is a public statement as the Standard Bearer, and that needs to be made clear. What is clear is ultimately up to the ST and may reasonably vary from group to group.

With a group experienced with Fall of Rome you might make it a thing where any statement made in defence about the nominator is assumed to be a Standard Bearer claim without saying so, but if so that needs to be clear to the whole group. The default formula to start any public claim is "I claim XX...", so here "I claim Standard Bearer, and state..." or some variation thereon. "I bear the Standard" / "I raise the Standard" / "I wave the flag", creativity is fine, assuming clarity.

2. Very much "Storyteller's decision is final" and there will always be some subjectivity about what "about the nominator" means. There will be extended examples of this in the upcoming almanac, with Standard Bearer one of the roles allocated double the space.

The default is that "Bob is three seats away from a Demon" is fine. "Bob is in a game where Alice is the demon" is not. Personally I would rule "3 steps clockwise" as the latter, as it targets a specific player.

It's entirely the individual ST call though. You can tell people the form of a Standard Bearer statement isn't acceptable and allow them to make another, but remember to do this for all players, not just a real Standard Bearer.

3. Another thing which will have some advice in the upcoming almanac, but again one without a fixed answer.

ST controlling the kills is always hard. It's a balancing tool in itself, and knowing when and how to use that is tough. Don't fret too much though, your players will undoubtedly enjoy it either way.

Generally you do not allow both Hannibals to live to the final day. If neither has been executed, kill one going into that day. Having one person woken to be told they are Hannibal and telling the town about it is all part of the experience, and it allows the Good team a chance to win. It's not fixed though. E.g., if there are only Evil players left alive already, you should typically allow both Hannibals to win with Evil.

Don't be afraid to kill Minions, and remember that it doesn't always hurt the Evil team terribly, as it can give a modicum of social credibility to the player as Good players are far more likely to die at night than Evil ones.

[sour shell]

Glad you enjoyed it in any event! Hope you get many more games in going forward 🧡

[languid lynx]

First of all: It's great to see that additionally to this great script, you guys are also incredibly supportive. Thanks a lot @sour shell, did not expect such a detailed answer.

To 3) My question results from the following situation yesterday: Final night, 4 living players (1 Outsider, 2 Minions, 1 Hannibal). It was not 100% clear, but town was quite sure who Hannibal was on that last day (not before however). So I was wondering at this point: Do I a) kill the outsider and "give" the victory to evil, since they played very well and good was not able to detect a single evil player before or b) kill one of the minions and probably give the victory to good, since at that point, it was quite sure that they will execute Hannibal. I took path a), because I in general prefer to let them play it out. But it also felt a bit weird, because evil played so well...

[crystal heart]

Gave +1 Thanks to @sour shell

[sour shell]

I don't think there's a 'right' answer here, and a lot of it depends on how you're reading the game, and what you think is fairest / most fun for your players.

[last rock]

Hi everyone,
I just noticed, that I cannot place multiple reminder tokens in the new app even with the 1.9 json in the script. Did this by any chance break with the new app update?

[marsh hare]

There is a checkbox you have to click in the settings menu to enable multiple reminder tokens

[little coral]

If a Legionary registers as evil does the legionary before them see them as evil?

[last rock]

Turns out it was an cache issue, as i loaded an old version just before 1.9 and apparently this causes the app to not load the new version

[gritty valley]

is there a reason Haruspex is +Spartacus specifically instead of +1 Outsider? I understand Haruspex is perfect for Spartacus hunting, but I don't think it's necessary to confirm to them that Spartacus exists

[dim meteor]

I’ll leave the last bit especially for Alex to weigh in but I believe Haruspex is +Spartacus in the way that Huntsman is +Damsel—it’s perfectly fair to have them not add an additional Outsider if the setup’s balanced

Based on that, you know that there is Spartacus but you’re unsure of Outsider count, and I think the info + kill with fairly loud confirmation you’re in play is a bit weak without knowing that you’ve got a shot at winning by Spartacus guess

[upbeat palm]

It's also important that Spartacus, specifically, needs to be afraid of the Haruspex - since they're the reason to claim spartacus each day.

[limpid delta]

In the 1.9 version of the .json, the Bad Omen reminder tokens seem to not be global, which makes it a bit irritating to add them.

[still ridge]

if a glykon nominates evil / good for cleopatra nomination win condition, and they register as opposing alignment, can this trigger the condition?

for example, only the good townsfolk who got nominated by the glykon and the glykon nominated

= no good nominated?

[restive kayak]

You can decide to register the glykon as good for that if you wish, but it's just a good evil play so it definitely can trigger the condition

[still ridge]

Does the physician learn the demon type on the same night the kill happened or the night after?

[upbeat palm]

Just to be clear, Glykon might register as good. Glykon's nominee must register as the opposing alignment. Good player in a final three with Glykon and Cleo, you have been warned!!

[upbeat palm]

The same night. Immediately - meaning that, if it's a multi-kill like Cleo or Ceaser and the physicked player was the first death but Physician was the second, they wake and learn the demon type before they die!

[upbeat palm]

(I know that Alex endorses this, because he was the Physician when I saw it happen :P)

[runic umbra]

Wait, so Cleo's win condition triggers before her death? I guess that makes sense since it triggers as long as there are no more nominations. That would be an interesting way to play psuedo-Mastermind by encouraging votes on Cleo early while using Glykon and evil to prevent good from counting

[little coral]

I would assume, just like the spy, they can register as different things at the same time

so they can register as good to make the good player register as evil while also registering as evil to cleo

[sour shell]

The Glykon doesn’t have to register as good to make a nominated good player register as evil. They are different abilities, and the latter is obligatory whatever you choose to register the Glykon themself as.

[sour shell]

On reading through it looks like this question wasn’t answered - no, Legionaries “see” the people between them, but don’t check each other.

[sour shell]

Yes that’s my understanding. The main BotC rulebook says “declare that nominations are closed” prior to executing anyone who is on the block, and at this point Cleo’s win condition would be checked.

[little coral]

Hmm good to know

[little coral]

Isn't this what I said?

[sour shell]

“They can register as good to make the good player register as evil” reads as causative, (registering as good causes good player to register as evil), hence trying to clarify that isn’t correct. Apologies if not what you meant! 🙂

[tight edge]

I've added the new stuff for the new app reveal stuff.

[little coral]

I meant register as good to their own ability

[winged otter]

Yeah, and Glykon doesn’t need to register as good to poison someone. They just always do that when they nominate

Oh, are you reading it as “Players you nominate register as the opposing alignment to you”? The proper reading is “Players you nominate register as the opposing alignment to their real alignment”

[little coral]

Wait what?

[little coral]

those 2 have very different meanings

[winged otter]

Yes. The first is how I assume you're reading it, the second is the correct reading

No matter how the Glykon registers, if the nominate a good player that player will always register as evil

[little coral]

ah yea

that's a bit confusing

[restive kayak]

Can spartacus register as the legionary to other legionaries?

[umbral hatch]

Yes - but probably don’t

[sour shell]

Yes, this.

[sour shell]

Is there a misregistration character that doesn't have this as an answer to something in any script ever? 😅

[winged otter]

I actually can’t recall an instance of that with Spy outside of the evil info steps. Maybe for Imp starpasses too, but that’s all

[upbeat palm]

Spy registering as townsfolk and failing to:

• be shown to the rest of the team when poppygrower dies
• get a choice when Hatter dies
• be shown to the demon and minions on setup.

...anyways. Meanwhile, in Rome..

[young pulsar]

misromeistration

[winged otter]

Like I said, outside of evil info, which the first and last of those are. But yeah, not the channel for it, was just curious

[restive kayak]

Imagine this situation. Glykon, temptress, hannibal (got executed) and trumpeter all claim spartacus. What numbers can the trumpeter get?

Because the hannibal became good, but does the trumpeter check at the time of the night order or when it was claimed?

[umbral hatch]

Trumpeter checks at their time in the night order, so the Hannibal would register as good for them 🙂

[restive kayak]

awesome, ty!

[rotund iris]

If the bad omen who thinks they are centurion nominates an evil, and gets them on the block, and then the scholar nominates the bad omen turning them into a real centurion, would the centurion ability trigger if the player they nominated is executed

[umbral hatch]

If the Storyteller chose to keep them as a Centurion yes. The Storyteller may choose to turn them into a different role, which they would learn at the start of the night.

[rotund iris]

That'd be mean of them!

[rotund iris]

But yeah that is interesting thanks, I'm pretty sure that's the only way for centurion to work against an augur which is what I was thinking about

[umbral hatch]

Centurion direct competitor is the Augur - but you can learn a lot about that even if the games doesn’t end 🙂

[vestal relic]

augur seems very bait and punish. bait a good player to nominate you and they are punished for it

[rotund iris]

Maybe less bait more scare people using the other reasons to nominate on the script

But you can

Sculptor, SB, Cleopatra

[vestal relic]

true

[winged otter]

Merchant too

[crisp ermine]

Hey @umbral hatch I am making a homebrew with a Demon whose design will probably be very similar to Hannibal. Do you want me to credit you in the script?

[umbral hatch]

If you feel like it gave you inspiration, sure! I'd be keen to see it too, if you have a channel link you can message me as to not clog up this forum.

[crisp ermine]

Would you be willing to talk in DMs? I can send a friend request if you don't mind 🙂

[umbral hatch]

Go for it 🙂

[nimble echo]

Hi all, first of all , congrats to Alex and all the people behind this awesome script! I want to run a game os FOR today or tomorrow night and I fear Haruspex+Spartacus could potentially make the game too short, wouldn't they? unlike the Damsel, spartacus can be guessed by any evil player althoug he can register as a townsfolk

[rotund iris]

You can put in a scholar as counter

you can also do Spartacus without haruspex

[nimble echo]

And on regards of the scholar, the character sheet reads "they immediately becomes a TF" but the almanac says at night. Is this for space economy? Ty

[rotund iris]

They are informed of the change in the night since there's no practical way to do it during the day, however they do immediately become a townsfolk

So if spartacus is nominated by a scholar during the day, then afterwards an evil player guesses spartacus, it will have no effect since they are no longer spartacus

even though they won't be aware of it yet

[upbeat palm]

(Also important to remember in case it is potentially affected by the winemaker)

[nimble echo]

thank you, this makes a lot of sense

[main echo]

Congrats on reaching 100 emojis in #homebrew-roles

[umbral hatch]

Oooh exiting stuff! Thanks all - and happy new year!

[crystal heart]

Gave +1 Thanks to @main echo

[upbeat palm]

Although, of course, it's C emojis, really.

[kind drift]

@umbral hatch how did you make the " smaller in the flavour text?

[kind drift]

or does anyone else do

[umbral hatch]

Is this on Bloodstar?

I think it may just be speech marks within speech marks? Otherwise it may be ‘

[kind drift]

Yes

[kind drift]

Thanks btw with that 🙏

[umbral hatch]

Did it do the trick?

[kind drift]

yeah

i figured out the issue 😄

[rare spade]

If Architect choose one of alive Hannibals. Can one of them become the second Demon, Cleopatra for example? Thus, there will be one Hannibal and one Cleopatra.

[winged otter]

In the almanac for Architect, it talks about a scenario with two Bad Omens swapping characters. I would do the same thing there, swap the two Hannibals and then say nothing, pretend like they swapped, or pretend like they got entirely different (good) characters.

But yes, you legally can have them change to another Demon, you just shouldn’t

[umbral hatch]

I’ve done this once IRL- but that was given the weird game scenario with an evil High Priest that became the Architect by the previously good Architect. In this instance I turned one of the Hannibal’s into Crassus after the evil High Priest now Architect picked them. And using the existing Hannibal ability killed the remaining Hannibal which in turn turned them into the Good Hannibal.

But as Cursed Relic mentions, I would typically use that as a swap between Hannibal’s, often pretending that they’ve become a ‘new’ role due to the Hannibal ability, or faking a swap between Hannibal’s.

[sour shell]

Changing one Hannibal into a new Demon then having the other Hannibal kill themself definitely sounds fun and is what I had contemplated doing if this ever happens. Worth noting they will still become Good on death - now the only Hannibal, but still the first to die.

The ST kills allow you to balance it and retain only one Demon.

But yes, swapping is probably advisable as a default…

[kind drift]

@umbral hatch if you have art for the evil/good versions of all characters i wouldnt mind making a json thats friendly for the official app

[still ridge]

does cleopatra choose before demon info???

[umbral hatch]

That shouldn’t be the case

[umbral hatch]

I had a version somewhere. Once at my PC I’ll post it here

[kind drift]

ooh

[still ridge]

how do you guys run spartacus claims?

what if too many players want to claim it

[winged otter]

Any further claims beyond the maximum number get denied, first-come-first-serve

If people ask for who’s claimed it, you can announce who has the tokens to make sure everyone is aware

[upbeat palm]

In real life games, you can hand out decreasing numbers of little flags or party hats for spartaci to show that they've claimed.

[ruby cave]

the night order numbering got moved around a couple of updates ago on the app will post a new json with that sorted this afternoon along with both good and evil tokens.

Updated json with correct night orders and all art work and a funky backgroound image.

[kind drift]

updated with grim reveal things for hannibal and bad omen

(if you want it)

(i can remove it from here as well)

[kind drift]

evil vv more shadow than the good one
evil trumpeteer bigger than the good one
pontifex maximus different look between base and the evil/good one

(colouring and border/vs not)

[kind drift]

mercenaries also have a shadow on only their good/evil art, also border

[dire mist]

Fall of Rome Achievement Unlocked:
Have 3 Gladiator Fights in One Night

[umbral hatch]

I believe the shadow is generated by the game - not sure as I don’t have the app. But can look into it

[umbral hatch]

Do tell 👀

[dire mist]

Mercs and Gladiator All chose me xD

[kind drift]

im not sure will look into it

will come back

[kind drift]

it isnt

from what ive tried

[upbeat palm]

....wait... how did both mercenaries get a gladiator ability??

[umbral hatch]

Because they can

They can both get the same one

[upbeat palm]

Huh... ...I continue to learn!

[ruby shore]

And here I was thinking both had to get the same ability… the more you know!

[hasty mirage]

Me praying you will run this a 3rd time at the con

[twin gyro]

Here is the evidence that Lei is selling the script of FOR, and other official character tokens and script sheets.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1204380089610014740/1219308296465420298/05.jpg?ex=660ad457&is=65f85f57&hm=8a48bf62ddb1c4b186d3e9e695c921bbd9178d7061f3a4f810b6561e405ab40b&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/720010349587202200/1175621404721426453/20231119101924.jpg?ex=6608c840&is=65f65340&hm=ecc8360eaa3629d66caeefa0f6ff1c4d549de3ad37c21a3134d60808aac2252c&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1204380089610014740/1219565721969889302/20230908101431.jpg?ex=660bc416&is=65f94f16&hm=ad411382c8d0b43bd10a05bbbdc8b6a753769ad40d8aec991a254342cd589d32&

Lei is the biggest bootlegger group in China and have sold so many unauthorized scripts.

Their member id in our channel called Airell and Andre and now still cheating someone in our channel that they never print homebrew script here to cheat the author for authorization.

So I'm here to warn everyone.

[languid snow]

💀

[marsh hare]

Congratulations @umbral hatch you know you've really made it when some asshole is bootlegging your work.

[umbral hatch]

https://tenor.com/view/hillbilly-gif-21667834

[upbeat palm]

...pause to appreciate the concept of a bootleg bootlegger...

[still ridge]

does vestal virgin require a character to die or a person to die?

[umbral hatch]

The person the reminder token is placed against to die. Which you need to be mindful of for Legionary, Hannibal and Bad Omen.

[still ridge]

can you show the wrong person to drunk sculptor night 1?

and, if a drunk winemaker is selected by physician, do they drunk the neighbors instead? insane interaction ;d

[umbral hatch]

Since the SCULPTURE token is placed against whichever player the Sculptor was shown, the location of that token is not information that can be rendered false or altered. Even if the Sculptor is drunk, poisoned, a Bad Omen or Hannibal, the information that they learn is always about the players that were nominated by the sculpture (although, of course, it might not be true if they are drunk, poisoned or Hannibal and it cannot be true if they are a Bad Omen).

[umbral hatch]

They do indeed.

Additionally, here is an example of when a Physician is a TF neighbour of a Winemaker

Lorelei the Winemaker is drunk on odd nights and their Townsfolk neighbours are Emily and Richard. On the first night Lorelei and Emily are protected by a Physician. As Lorelei becomes sober due to the Physician, Emily and Richard would be drunk, but Emily is also protected so remains sober. Therefore, Lorelei and Emily are sober, and Richard is drunk tonight...

...During the same game Richard is turned into a Bad Omen, and the Physician becomes Lorelei's new Townsfolk neighbour on that side of the grimoire. On night 3, the Physician protects Lorelei and Emily again. This time the Physician and Lorelei are stuck in an infinite loop of becoming sober then drunk, so tonight all of Lorelei, Emily and the Physician are drunk.

[still ridge]

I love these nooks and crannies of rome

[still ridge]

if the twins dies, can remus be executed safely or does the effect stay

[umbral hatch]

Correct - Remus can be executed safely as The Twins is dead and has no ability.

[still ridge]

if pontifex bleeses bad omen and chooses truth, do they still get false info?

[kind drift]

the bad omen only gets false info from the ability they think they have

[hasty mirage]

Will u be running this script a 3rd time at the con?

[umbral hatch]

Next UK convention I will likely be running exclusively FoR. At least once per day.

[hasty mirage]

Oh wait r u not running it at the dc con?

Is that someone else?

[umbral hatch]

That is not me.

Perhaps @tawdry thorn ?

[hasty mirage]

Oh myb lol

[umbral hatch]

Ryan runs great games of FoR. So if he hasn’t already set up to run games of FoR, and he is going to DC Con, then I would pester him to do so 😁

[hasty mirage]

What is his discord?

[umbral hatch]

The Ryan tagged above.

[hasty mirage]

Oh yeah lmao

[still ridge]

if a vestal virgin learned townsfolk that became bad omen, will the virgin still learn info after their death?

[dark rose]

iirc, it’s like if the VV was droisoned

i.e. it’s where the reminder token is

[umbral hatch]

Much like a Pixie which is later drunked etc.

[tawdry thorn]

( @hasty mirage )

There’s someone else that scheduled a game or two I believe? I didn’t schedule any this year as I wasn’t sure if I’d be able to bring my grim but since I can, I’m planning to run a few pick-up games during the weekend!

[placid dune]

please run pickup of this 🥹

[still ridge]

is actor info valid at the time of the acting or at night ( if an outsider becomes townsfolk for example )

[umbral hatch]

If the Actor is drunk or poisoned when making their guesses, but sober when waking at night, they learn correct information.

If the Actor is drunk or poisoned at night, or is actually Hannibal, they learn arbitrary information. If the Actor is a Bad Omen, they must learn any number other than the correct number.

If a player switches character types during the day, the Actor learns if they were correct at the point they made the public statement.

[zinc furnace]

why is there a comma after "The 1st Hannibal to die"

[upbeat palm]

...because grammar , is hard

[still ridge]

can glykon misregister for actor? it says might register as GOOD, not townsfolk. that's why i'm asking

[umbral hatch]

It cannot. Only alignment checkers

[umbral hatch]

Will look into this 😊

[zinc furnace]

i myself am not even sure if its wrong but it just feels odd

[umbral hatch]

https://tenor.com/view/no-idea-no-clue-idk-no-clue-what-im-doing-confused-gif-16877685

When it comes to commas

[long pollen]

What's the flavor for Hannibal?

Why does it think it's good, why are there two of them, etc

[upbeat palm]

2 possibilities:

• all of the demons in FoR are spirits from Rome's history, motivated by rage at their demise to come back in the empire's final days. Hannibal, as Rome's greatest invader, exists within multiple people, at the very back of their minds, preying on their doubts and paranoia.
• "Hanny" and "Bull" are the names of two very forgetful but murderous demonic elephants, who have dressed up as Romans and gotten so into character that they don't remember who they really are.

[kind drift]

I love the second one

[restive kayak]

Wasn't it like hannibals elephants accidently killing people of hannibals own army? 😭

So they're not killing the town on purpose

[upbeat palm]

You're right. Hanny and Bull are just very clumsy and prone to forgetting that their fellow Romans are weirdly squishy.

[umbral hatch]

One of these options is correct. I won’t specify which.

[runic umbra]

I wanna see the Gladiator do option 2. They go to the duel and are like “Is that a trunk?”

[zinc furnace]

i can live in hope

[dusty pollen]

if i make Spartacus a Hannibal.. in a 12 player game.. do i need to Add an Ousider?

[umbral hatch]

Yes - Hannibal games require a normal Outsider count. So that needs to be planned ahead for when you put tokens in the bag.

[tawdry thorn]

@umbral hatch I played in a 21 person fall of Rome game at the con last night 😆

[umbral hatch]

What! 😅

[tawdry thorn]

Thanks @empty skiff & @keen fog for storytelling!

[crystal heart]

Gave +1 Thanks to @empty skiff (current: #1863 - 1)

[tawdry thorn]

There was a mercenary pair, a sibyl, an architect, an emperor, and a high priestess

[umbral hatch]

21 players, and it still came down to what looks like a close final 3!

[empty skiff]

It was pretty epic. Only a couple of storytelling mistakes 😅

Yeah it did!

[umbral hatch]

(When there are 21 players - I think the phrase “it happens” is totally applicable!)

[empty skiff]

Hehehe

Thanks 🙂

[umbral hatch]

Great work!

@tawdry thorn which character were you?

[tawdry thorn]

The starting temptress (for the umpteenth time) who got Crassus jumped 😛

Picked a minion and later claimed to be tempted myself - it almost worked out!

[umbral hatch]

Was about to ask - did the Haruspex die before the jump?

[umbral hatch]

By this phrasing - I take it good grabbed the win at the end?

[tawdry thorn]

They did!! It was very close though final day

[nova violet]

Update, we did get our pickup game where @hasty mirage managed to Crassus pass to @placid dune for a final 3 the night she turned evil 😎 for an evil win

[ruby shore]

that's two Crassus passes in time for f3 in pickup FoR games at Clocktower Con, then

[halcyon verge]

Lmfaooo

[dusty pollen]

I ran two games of Fall of Rome at Clocktower Con - first one a Hannibal game with a Spartacus Hannibal.. I'm mean... and it was Chris Grace.. lol - it was won when the Centurion nominated and exectued the Temptress turned Trumpeter Bad Omen.

The second game was won by a Haruspex cold calling a Spartacus from the block on day two.

[hasty mirage]

technically a cheat but i could have just killed the sole good player anyway

[nova violet]

I wasn’t going to call that out 🙈

[placid dune]

I'm glad I got to join the evil team 🥹

[still ridge]

if a temptress chosen player dies by centurione xec, does other one still turn or does game end immediately

[sour shell]

The other tempted player would turn evil that night per the Temptress ability, and the game will have ended at the point of execution if a sober Centurion nominates and executes someone, so there will be no Temptress alignment change.

[real charm]

I was watching one of the YouTube videos of this script and realizing that it would be wild to add an Athiest into the mix.

[still ridge]

bitten centurion nominating and executing the glykon. does game continue or end?

[umbral hatch]

They would be poisoned. So game continues

They would then be sober at night as the Glykon is dead.

[tulip igloo]

I know this is an old post, but what kind of paper were these printed on? They seem pretty similar to official script sheets 🤩

[kind berry]

250 gsm stock

I went to a paper printing company

and brought in the offical stuff

its honestly higher quality than it

[tulip igloo]

Thanks! And this is with a glossy finish it looks like? Or something else?

[crystal heart]

Gave +1 Thanks to @kind berry (current: #50 - 426)

[normal zodiac]

Just looking at the script

Is Mortician missing a comma?

Each night*, if a player died by execution today you learn if either of their living neighbours are evil.

Each night*, if a player died by execution today**,** you learn if either of their living neighbours are evil.

to me, it feels more correct to make the second statement a subordinate clause.

mm, then again its not a subordinate clause, it doesnt make sense if it was

i just feel it reads funny rn

[merry hornet]

Heyyy! Is there a spanish version of this script? Does someone have the pnp files so I can make a copy for my group? I am really excited to test this one out

[umbral hatch]

It very well may be! I’ll put it on my notes ready for the final version! Thanks 🙂

[crystal heart]

Gave +1 Thanks to @normal zodiac (current: #633 - 26)

[umbral hatch]

¡Hola!

Unfortunately there is no Spanish version of this script, unless I am mistaken.

If a Spanish translation is something you are wanting to pursue, than I’m more than happy to provide the materials to help you do so.

[normal zodiac]

just about to start a Fall of Rome game. I was curious where the designs for the high priests come from

Did Pontifex Maximus come first?

Why can't both be in play at the same time?

They both look like very neat travellers, that's why I'm so curious about them

[runic umbra]

I could be wrong, so don’t take my word for it. But I believe it was just a matter of taste for the same effect. Basically, it’s kinda the difference between using regular Hatter and Chaos Hatter, but as 2 different characters. And it’s only supposed to be one Traveller that you can use in different modes so it’s simpler or more chaotic

Thus, you can’t use both in a similar way to not having both regular and chaos Hatter in one game(although ported to account for the ability being more elaborate between the 2)

[halcyon verge]

^^^^

[normal zodiac]

that's fair, though they still are fairly different

They look very cool

I would shake in my boots at an evil Pontifex Maximus game

speaking of that

If the High Priest blesses someone

And is then exiled

Does the effect still happen? Or does their blessing go?

[merry hornet]

I'm willing to make a spanish version of the script to play with my group here in argentina 🙂

If you can provide me with the material then I can make the spanish version and then share it in case someone want it/need it later

[upbeat palm]

The blessing requires the High Priest to be present, alive, sober and healthy (although the latter isn't much of an issue in FoR, since there's pretty much nothing that can droison travellers).

[upbeat palm]

It's my fault. I moaned about "something good" being too vague, so Alex made the High Priest to stop me whinging.

(He then got Ryan to run a game in which we had some truly brilliant Pontifex effects)

[ruby shore]

such as 👀

[ornate star]

Anybody have a link to where you can find a PnP version of the tokens? I got the Almanac but there's no tokens for print in that one. Really wanna give this one a go with our BotC group 😄

[ruby shore]

pinging alex S; @ornate star shoot him a message; he's got the PnP resources!

[kind drift]

shouldnt crassus have a today

their current wording implies just claiming it once and being fine for the rest of the game

[tulip igloo]

Hello! I’m going to be running my first of FoR coming up soon, and I had some questions about some characters.

Standard Bearer:
Still not sure I understand “uniqueness”. Let’s say Bob nominated the SB and the SB states that “Bob is the demon”. Then Phil nominates the SB the next day and the SB states “Phil is the demon”. Is that second statement unique since it is about a different person? Or is it not considered unique because the subject of the statement is not meant to be taken into account?

Blacksmith:
The Blacksmith is shown “you are” and a new character token when their ability triggers, even though technically they are still the Blacksmith. Should there be a way to distinguish their ability triggering versus an actually character change, from the Architect, for example?

Hannibal:
Am I ever obligated to show the blue Hannibal token to players that learn characters? For example, if the good Hannibal nominates the Merchant, do I need to show them the blue Hannibal token later on, or should I show the default red token?

Crassus:
This one I’m just curious about, but am I missing something about why there needs to be a “1st Crassus” reminder token? Is there a situation where who the first Crassus is wouldn’t be clear? There can only ever be one living Crassus, and the moment a second one is created, the first one dies. So the “1st Crassus” is always the dead one, no?

[winged otter]

1. It has to have a different meaning, not just a different subject. "Is the Demon" is the same statement
2. Not sure
3. Alignment isn't character. If you're instructed to show a character, their alignment is irrelevant, show the default token. You don't have a "blue hannibal" token anyway
4. As mentioned, Architect exists. It's not a huge issue, just easier to say/use a reminder token I think

Oh also, @umbral hatch , it says Esme here but Conner for the rest of the example. Esme was the Hannibal in the previous example. In the how to run, it also just says "a good player" rather than 2 players

[upbeat palm]

Standard Bearer: it must be unique among all statements made by that standard bearer - so in your example the second statement would not be allowed. However, it doesn't matter if a different person bluffed standard bearer and made that statement.

Blacksmith: yeah, technically, there should be a "you have this ability" card. If architect is in the game, I'd use the "this character selected you" card and the architect token to avoid confusion.

Hannibal: What Cursed Relic said above, although the print and play pdfs do come with a blue token. You don't have to show it as blue, though.

Crassus: that "first crassus" token is there to tell you that no other Crassi can crasspass. It's serving the same function as the Fang Gu's "once" token.

[upbeat palm]

Sorry, replying to this. Bloody discord mobile.

[tulip igloo]

Thanks, that pretty much clears things up. One follow up though for Blacksmith: how would you differentiate from a Bad Omen Blacksmith that got turned into a new character because of the Scholar? Same way and show “this character selected you”?

[crystal heart]

Gave +1 Thanks to @upbeat palm (current: #520 - 40)

[ruby shore]

I'm not sure I would bother disambiguating there — as an ST it seems more interesting to leave it open. That being said night order should do most of the work for you; if the Blacksmith wakes up instantly they know they've been Scholar-turned since a Demon wouldn't have attacked yet

[upbeat palm]

I'm with Axolator, although it's an interesting one. I wonder what Alex and Ryan will say...

[upbeat palm]

...and, of course, you can always lie to a Hannibal and pretend that any of these things happened..

[umbral hatch]

As Axolator has mentioned above. I would not differentiate.

A Scholar acts very early on the night order whilst a Blacksmith much later. However, the ST may choose to wake the Bad Omen Blacksmith to show them that they are now the Blacksmith. That may give them a big enough clue. And if that same night they are targeted by the Demon, lucky for them, they get to wake again and learn a new character.

[umbral hatch]

Thanks for noticing! All of the almanac is currently being rewritten, but will log this to make sure it’s fixed! Thanks!

[crystal heart]

Gave +1 Thanks to @winged otter (current: #404 - 63)

[umbral hatch]

Will look into this 👍

[tulip igloo]

Very helpful, thanks everyone! Last question:
Any recommendations on what characters to use for my group's first game?

[umbral hatch]

I think I could chuck the phrase “any group of characters work”. But FoR is an experienced Homebrew script, so careful decisions on setup are required by the ST to create a balanced game for new players.

So this is where I lean into the recommendations some players have for newbie TB’s. Along the lines of Scarlet Women, Poisoner. Crassus and Haruspex give the same effect. Crassus allows for an inexperienced Demon to not let the game end, much like SW. And Haruspex gives a new player evil agency, much like the Poisoner, which is always fun!

Characters like Actor, Gladiator, Standard Bearer, Trumpeter give new players a better sense of what could/should be happening in a game of FoR. And just by having them in play can help the group to really embrace what Fall of Rome is all about.

But Crassus would largely be my recommendation! Or even Hannibal!

[tulip igloo]

Thanks! My group is pretty experienced in general, but have mostly not seen much of FoR. I think those options sound pretty good for easing them into Fall of Rome and getting them excited about the potential it has 🙂

[umbral hatch]

Awesome! Let us know how it goes 🙂

[normal zodiac]

Is anyone else having issues with the art?

On the unofficial app?

[crisp ermine]

Make sure to have "Show Custom Images" on.

[umbral hatch]

Make sure you are using the JSON version compatible with the old app, rather than the JSON compatible with the new app.

[normal zodiac]

Okioi

[normal zodiac]

what is the json compatatble with the old app

[tulip igloo]

In preparation for an in-person game I will be running soon, I made this custom storage solution for all the tokens

[halcyon verge]

That's cute I love that

[umbral hatch]

Ok… wow! 😍

That is amazing!

[tulip igloo]

Thanks!

[main laurel]

Where did you get the olive branch PNG and the background art? Did you design them?

[tulip igloo]

All print-and-play files were provided by @umbral hatch

[main laurel]

Are the files in this thread

[tulip igloo]

DM him, and I’m sure he’ll happily provide

[tulip igloo]

Finally got around to running a few games of this with my group in person, and everyone seemed to really enjoy it!
Evil won the first game with a Crassus who never needed to "crasspass". Our Gladiator had a good time fighting in the night, but unfortunately took out another good player.
Good won the next 2 games where Hannibal was in play. They figured out who Hannibal was pretty easily, so perhaps I need to work on balancing the game a bit more with what info I show to drunk/poisoned players and deciding which player(s) should die at night.

A couple questions that did come up that I need some clarifications on:
Physician - From what I understand from the almanac, the Physician's patients can still see Bad Omens and snake bitten players as the wrong alignment and count as receiving true information, right?

Bad Omen - Similar question to above, but do other Bad Omens or snake bitten players misregister and count as true info that needs to be reversed, thus actually providing info that is indeed true? Or does misregistration already count as false info for a Bad Omen? This part in the almanac was a bit unclear to me.

Standard Bearer - Where do you draw the line for considering statements to be valid? Should the information gleaned from a statement be purely about the nominator, or can you phrase statements in a way to also learn about other players? For example, "My nominator is [insert character here]", "My nominator is good/evil", or "My nominator is currently poisoned/drunk" I would assume to all be valid statements. However, statements like "My nominator is neighboring an evil player", "My nominator is seated within 2 seats of the demon", or "My nominator nominated an evil player yesterday" all gain information about players other than the nominator, so would those be valid?

Apologies for all the questions, but I've seen different people online run things differently to varying degrees, so I just wanted to find out the intended way to run these characters.

[ruby shore]

as someone who's STed a fair bit of FoR (will defer to ryan/alex if they rule differently)

Phys: Yes, BOs/snakebitten players can misregister to someone chosen by the Physician. It's outlined in the 3rd example of the Physician almanac.

[...] Jonah the Trumpeter wakes to learn the number of evil players that publicly claimed Spartacus. Despite being Physician protected, the misregistration of Jonah and possibly Josué are still in effect. Jonah learns a '2', as Josué is registering evil as they are the Bad Omen, and Robert is registering as evil due to the Glykon.

BO: From the almanac:

A Bad Omen cannot be influenced by other Bad Omen misregistrations when receiving their false information. A player nominated by the Glykon must register as the opposite alignment, therefore this affects the answers given to a Bad Omen.

So a BO registers as good (and must therefore be seen as evil to another BO) while a snakebitten player must register falsely (and must therefore register as their actual alignment to a BO).

SB: I'd consider all of those to be valid SB statements.

[tulip igloo]

Thanks! That confirms what I thought about Physician and Bad Omen

[umbral hatch]

Sounds like Axolator has covered most of these queries, let me know if you need help with anything else.

And thanks @ruby shore !

[crystal heart]

Gave +1 Thanks to @ruby shore (current: #10 - 839)

[tulip igloo]

So those SB statements are acceptable? I was on the fence about some of them since I’ve seen some online games of STs rejecting statements for being either too complex or straying away from being purely about the nominator.

[umbral hatch]

You could consider SB statements to be ST governed. It’s much like when I run games with a Cerenovus, I would outline what I would expect from someone being mad: Where my cut off points lie, how madness makes the game more fun so you should embrace it, some madness related examples etc.

As long as STs are clear with their players what they expect, and what limits players can go to. Then I’m happy, and hopefully that clarity makes both the ST and players happy.

When playing in person I do tend to me more strict. Players have such a large plethora of statements to make in person compared to online play, and many of which can be more involved and humorous. This is often why I’m quite harsh on the boundaries of SB in person, and it’s definitely easier to manage in person than online.

I often use the wording of “I don’t want you to make Artist questions everyday about the current game state. It’s nominator centric, make it about the nominator!”.. and that often gets a laugh and sets the tone.

But in short, those later SB are fine. I would maybe have been critical about the Demon seating arrangement one. And probably would have passed off the last statement about who they nominated yesterday, by saying “I don’t remember who they nominated, so do make the statement again”

[grave rock]

I want to run this in person one day but I'll need to print and play it eventually

I'm still teaching my irl group base 3

[umbral hatch]

This in response to @tulip igloo (hopefully that helps)

[grave rock]

They're on bmr

[umbral hatch]

Whenever you feel like throwing your players into Rome, feel free to drop me a message and I can provide the PnP.

[grave rock]

Will do!

[tulip igloo]

I think that’s a really good way of looking at it. Much appreciated for the response. Thanks!

[crystal heart]

Gave +1 Thanks to @umbral hatch (current: #539 - 39)

[inland fox]

Said a townfolk and an outsider are Demon Hannibals, how many townsfolk/ outsider are there in the script? Is it 6/2/2/2 or 7/1/2/2? Very appreciate

Assume there is no scholar

and a 12 people game

[normal zodiac]

Hannibal dies not change outsider count

6/2/2/2

You will need to add an actual outsider into the bag

[upbeat palm]

Similar to marionette.

[dire mist]

Fall of Rome Question just for a curious mind:
A sculptor BO can learn the wrong player than who their reminder token is on

Yes or No

Or
Yes but don't.

[umbral hatch]

Great question.

No

And here’s why:

Since the SCULPTURE token is placed against whichever player the Sculptor was shown, the location of that token is not information that can be rendered false or altered. Even if the Sculptor is drunk, poisoned, a Bad Omen or Hannibal, the information that they learn is always about the players that were nominated by the sculpture (although, of course, it might not be true if they are drunk, poisoned or Hannibal and it cannot be true if they are a Bad Omen).

To be short. Consider it this way. They know their sculpture. They don’t learn their sculpture.

Hopefully that helps @dire mist

[dire mist]

Thank you

[barren bison]

Hello! Sorry if this is somewhere around here and I just missed it (I did check the pinned message), but are there images of the tokens, so that they can be printed and played in person? I've seen that the printable script is available but I couldn't find the tokens

[ruby shore]

You’ll want to ask @umbral hatch for the print-and-play resources

[barren bison]

Alright, thank you for letting me know! I sent them a message

[sonic hound]

how do i get the json for this to work in clocktower.live?

[ruby shore]

check the pins

[sonic hound]

is there a way to make the tokens show in clocktower.live? its just showing thumbs up and down

[ruby shore]

go to the top-right cog icon, to the book tab, and enable "Show Custom Images"

[sonic hound]

ty

[tulip igloo]

Ran an unbelievable 16 player game last night.
The odds were stacked against evil with all 4 evils sat between 2 Legionaries and an Actor who got a 3 on guessing the Demon, Minion, and Townsfolk. The demon was on the block on day 2 and the Haruspex came in clutch last minute and correctly guessed who Spartacus was!

[umbral hatch]

Wooo! Amazing

Well played Haruspex!

[normal zodiac]

Does the vestial virgin learn information over and over again

Or only once

[astral robin]

I’m sure this has been asked, but can Haruspex and Scholar together only add Spartacus (and not an additional outsider)?

[normal zodiac]

So they learn Scholar Haruspex. The scholar dies. They learn Centurian Crussus. The Crassus dies. Can they then learn Augur sculptor?

[normal zodiac]

I think it works like huntsman damsel

[astral robin]

That tracks, thank you!

[crystal heart]

Gave +1 Thanks to @normal zodiac (current: #638 - 30)

[umbral hatch]

Over and over and over 😁

[umbral hatch]

Haruspex [+ Spartacus] operates much like Huntsman.

So that can be “one of the Outsiders already in the game is a Spartacus” or “the Haruspex has added an extra Outsider, and one of those Outsiders is Spartacus”

Scholar adds any Outsider. But always adds an Outsider. Unless they are a starting Bad Omen or Hannibal.

[astral robin]

Perfect thank you!

[crystal heart]

Gave +1 Thanks to @umbral hatch (current: #543 - 40)

[dapper raven]

We have prepared a Russian wiki page for Fall of Rome with ready-to-print character and night sheets (see the bottom of the page), and got a bless from @umbral hatch to share with you:
https://botc.1nv.is/wiki/Fall_of_Rome

[prisma ledge]

Hello folks, started getting into Fall of Rome. I really like this homebrew and looking forward to ST it in the future. Reading the almanac of the Spartacus, the first line says "On the first night, Spartacus might register as a Townsfolk." The character's ability does not mention anything about the first night.

Does that mean that the first night only the spartacus can (arbitrarily up to ST) register as TF as well, and the other nights only if claimed Spartacus?

Also does the evil team only have 1 chance combined to guess Spartacus like the Damsel?

[umbral hatch]

This caveat, and also the weird wording behind Spartacus is largely to prevent a Haruspex picking Spartacus night 1, and the game effectively being over.

So yes the Spartacus can misregister on night 1.

[umbral hatch]

Correct

[prisma ledge]

Ah I see. Because if the Spartacus registers as a townsfolk, if picked by a Haruspex they can be shown any townsfolk character I assume on N1

[umbral hatch]

Correct. That applies to any night following a day claim of Spartacus + N1

[pastel valley]

Is this the newest version of the script or
https://clocktowercon.com/events/fall-of-rome-ryan-15-players-homebrew-2/

[kind drift]

tribunal is old

has been reflavoured to be the glycon

i remember the tribunal nostalgia arrives

[pastel valley]

huh

[kind drift]

#1030804651085402142 message

[pastel valley]

ah

I would have thought the Twins should have 'even if you are dead'?

[kind drift]

they dont really need it, if they are executed then town already suffers a night of drunkness and rewarding outsiders for dying in the night is fine

[pastel valley]

ah

[pastel valley]

Does Hannibal remove a Townsfolk?

[umbral hatch]

Correct

[pastel valley]

got that

does Vestial Virgin only learn 2 sets of info in total

[umbral hatch]

It’s repetitive. So they can in theory learn any number of sets of information

[pastel valley]

ah

so if the pinged character in the second info set dies, they learn another set

for Standard Bearer does the statement need to be unique for that specific nominator or for all who have nominated them?

[kind drift]

All who have nominated them

[pastel valley]

ah

Solo Legionary would basically be a makeshift Oracle if Bad Omens didn't exist

[kind drift]

And hannibal and temptress

[pastel valley]

yay

[pastel valley]

Hannibal game, Minions choose Blacksmith, does Blacksmith live

and same for Centurion?

[umbral hatch]

Minions do not pick who dies with the updated Hannibal

[pastel valley]

ah

I am blind

[umbral hatch]

No worries 🙂

[pastel valley]

am gonna try to add Fall of Rome into my script randomiser code, will have to see if I actually know how to deal with duplicating Legionaries

dead evil can still guess Spartacus huh

[umbral hatch]

Correct

[pastel valley]

cool

Scholar feels... weird? maybe it's just that I never played the script but isn't its ability just undoing the [+1 Outsider]?

[umbral hatch]

Yes in theory. But in doing so they are confirming themselves to the Outsider, and the Outsider to them.

Which generally, confirmation in BotC is very strong.

[pastel valley]

ah right

[pastel valley]

if Scholar noms an outsider while droisoned is their ability 'used'

[umbral hatch]

It would be considered used, yes.

[pastel valley]

better make sure you aren't neighbouring a Winemaker then

I'm gonna assume that Bad Omen-Hannibal is not legal setup

[umbral hatch]

A Hannibal, who thinks they are a Sculptor, but actually is a Bad Omen, who actually is a Hannibal… no that is not a legal setup for simplicity 😅

But if that is something you wanted to explore, it has no real effect on the game or game state.

[pastel valley]

fair

[pastel valley]

Winemaker is a third of a No Dashii

also how painful is this setup

[umbral hatch]

Humorous but looks good to me 👍

Use the Hannibal kills wisely.

[ruby shore]

that's a hell of a Winemaker chain

[pastel valley]

the No Dashii would be proud

[ruby shore]

wait I just realized why this was funny

literally nobody is getting sober information

the only sober TF is the Scholar here

[pastel valley]

since Spartacus can only be guessed if alive, I'm guessing the Damsel strategy of deliberately getting executed is not the worst idea

[umbral hatch]

Correct

[pastel valley]

cool

[ruby shore]

Sure, but no TF really wants to be executed on this script

Which is part of the design

[pastel valley]

fair

moreso that quite a few of them want to be nommed multiple times without actually getting executed

I think

[prisma ledge]

Question ,is there an updated json that allows for multiple reminders of the I am Spartacus tokens?

or any duplicate tokens in that regard

[ruby shore]

The one that's pinned should have duplicate reminder tokens?

specifically the file attached at the bottom of this message

[prisma ledge]

Nope does not work

only one I am spartacus I can place

[ruby shore]

are you sure you're using the file and not the URL?

the URL's meant for use with clocktower.online and doesn't have duplicate reminders as a result

[prisma ledge]

Yes just used the 1.9 json

Didn't work

nvm read it says spartacus doesn't work with duplication

I assume that's the case, right @ruby shore ?

[ruby shore]

You shouldn't need more than one Spartacus character token

The "I am Spartacus!" reminders should work though

it's there in the JSON

[prisma ledge]

the reminders I meant

doesn't work

hey downloaded it a second time and reset and it worked

!

[prisma ledge]

Another question, is there a reason these things take place before the demon info?

[kind drift]

just looks like badly updated night order tbh

especially that cleopatra one

the rest works fine

[prisma ledge]

Yeah, demon info in the regular order should be fine then, no?

[kind drift]

yeah

[prisma ledge]

If the twins dies, does their ability stop working?

[pastel valley]

yes

[dire mist]

I've caught many spartacus' on that. Whether I guessed them or not is a different question

[prisma ledge]

This script is magnificent

Ran it for the first time yesterday twice , everyone had so much fun

[umbral hatch]

Amazing! Glad you and everyone enjoyed it!

[sterile mason]

Can you give me the steps you used? I've been trying to get a decent workaround for the Spartacus token duplication issue for a while. There are a couple of bugs somewhere in the JSON anyway, I might rewrite it from scratch...

Also want a way for the Hannibal and Bad Omen reminder tokens to overwrite the character tokens at the grim reveal

[prisma ledge]

I don't know how to fix that , just change the characters before the reveal.

[prisma ledge]

Download the updated json (ver 1.9) and test. If it doesn't work, load another script and load it again a few times.

[sterile mason]

How random, yeah I got it working. I am midway through reformatting the JSON anyway, removing the strings that are causing errors in the official (flavor does nothing in official right now)

In other news, I ran a couple of games online yesterday, and will do a couple more in-person today. As always the script did its thing. Two out of three Legionnaires as Hannibals is always a good time.

[umbral hatch]

Amazing!

[umbral hatch]

Feel free to upload the updated JSON here.

I’m not one for coding/ IT stuff. So often leave that to other people to make!

[kind drift]

Do you know how to make a night order overwride? Otherwise I'm happy to help w making that

[sterile mason]

the strings are "firstNight" and "otherNight" with the number value being the order they act

afaik?

Ah yeah I see the problem, yes that would be helpful

[kind drift]

You can override it by putting:

firstNight:
[
"dawn",
"[insert id]",
"[insert id]",
"[insert id]",
"dusk"
]

[sterile mason]

Hannibal is set to 11 and Temptress to 12

[kind drift]

In the meta

You can add demon and minion info timings as well

[sterile mason]

ID is demoninfo and minioninfo?

[kind drift]

Think so

Gimme a moment to check

[sterile mason]

I had another workaround. It seems minion info defaults to ~12 and demon info to 15. Easy enough to line them up after that.

[kind drift]

It works just more clunky if the script changes

[sterile mason]

ah

[sterile mason]

does anyone know the string to add a purple reminder token circle to the how to run text?

ah its :reminder:

I'm making the reminder text much much much easier to scan and read, and not assume that the ST is completely new to words and concepts

a la the base 3 scripts

I think I can get the Hannibal and Bad Omen reveals working too

[kind drift]

If you struggle I can help as needed

[sterile mason]

yeah I'm tinkering to find the command through trial and error

Let's take Bad Omen for example, this is what I have

[kind drift]

I can go grab the code if u want

[sterile mason]

{
"id":"badomen_fall_of_rome",
"name":"Bad Omen",
"image":["https://script.patters.live/for/app_icons/good/badomen.png","https://script.patters.live/for/app_icons/evil/badomen.png"],
"team":"outsider",
"reminders":["Is a Bad Omen","Is a Bad Omen","Is a Bad Omen","Is a Bad Omen","Is a Bad Omen","Is a Bad Omen","Is a Bad Omen","Is a Bad Omen","Is a Bad Omen"],
"setup":true,
"ability":"You do not know you are a Bad Omen. You think you are a Townsfolk, but you receive false information. You might register as evil, even if dead.",
"special":[{"name":"bag-disabled","type":"selection"}]
}

what is the special to get "replace-character" on "reveal" working?

it would help mightily to see the code for The Drunk

[kind drift]

Try reversing the order

[sterile mason]

I assume its tied to the reminder token though

[sterile mason]

like the Drunk, or the Beaurocrat

[kind drift]

remindersGlobal

Change reminders to this

[sterile mason]

ah thats probably it

[sterile mason]

WE HAVE VICTORY
Thank you very much.

[crystal heart]

Gave +1 Thanks to @kind drift (current: #158 - 212)

[kind drift]

Yw

[sterile mason]

Blacksmith and Bad Omen sorted, but Hannibal is proving a bit more challenging, because both players are always coming up as evil at the end

[kind drift]

Not much you can do about that, though I'd recomend an st to replace the good hannibals token with a good hannibal to make it clearer for the grim anyways

[sterile mason]

yeah I thought of that

there are actually a few quirks that I'm noticing now about the script
i.e. The Twins don't need to be on "Other Nights" night order, just like the Minstrel is not
Also the Physician technically needs to appear twice on the "Other Nights" night order

[sterile mason]

@umbral hatch Lend me your ears!
Most things work as they should, except Hannibal always reveals as evil, and I haven't sorted out Sibyl's dead vote functionality.
I changed the ST night reminders to bring them in-line with the existing TPI notes on the app. Nothing about the script is changed. Plus there is the link to the almanac for the more detailed "how to run" examples.
Exeunt me, stage left.

[umbral hatch]

Amazing thanks Lex!

I will look into this once I get the chance! But again, thank you very much.

As for the night order, I often find that others know better than I. So I trust your judgement!

[crystal heart]

Gave +1 Thanks to @sterile mason (current: #2072 - 1)

[kind drift]

You cannot do that

So it is what it is

[pastel valley]

not me annoying my Greek Discord friend asking about questions about ancient Rome because of this script

[prisma ledge]

Question, does an evil traveller learn both hannibals?

[kind drift]

yes

[pastel valley]

gg that was fun

[pastel valley]

wait what even were the Minion bluffs (other than Scholar)

[prisma ledge]

mortician with a second execution from sybil

Does the storyteller chooses what information they learn, or they learn both players that were executed?

[pastel valley]

both

[prisma ledge]

and does augur turn only 1 person or more into a bad omen?

From the wording it seems more

[kind drift]

more

[prisma ledge]

and question, gladiator wakes in the night order shown right?

so it is possible demon kils them before

[umbral hatch]

Correct

[prisma ledge]

Does the vestal virgin ability repeat indefinitely?

[winged otter]

Yes

[upbeat palm]

....although, in theory, they're limited by the number of in-play characters.

(Note to self: show a Bad Omen Vestal Virgin the Vestal Virgin token.)

(Alongside Hannibal)

[prisma ledge]

Question for Sybil ; are dead votes used as usual?

[kind drift]

No

[kind drift]

Nothing says you can't learn dead players characters

So that would stop the chain

[prisma ledge]

can someone chosen form the sybil nominate someone that has been nominated again?

[kind drift]

Pretty sure they can

Same as butcher

[tulip igloo]

So what happens if the standard bearer gets nominated twice in the same day?

[kind drift]

I assume it would be run like the mortician, you learn the answer to your statements seperatly and the St points at which nominator but I'll take a moment to see if the almanac says otherwise

Almanac doesn't say anything

[kind drift]

So I'm not fully sure but based on mortician ruling im going to assume it's like this

[tulip igloo]

Hmm okay. I assume probably something similar for Sculptor as well if their sculpture nominates twice

[kind drift]

Sculptor says recent nominee I think

Yeah

[upbeat palm]

Yes - worth noting that if the statue doesn't nominate, the Sculptor keeps waking up to learn about the last person they nominated.. ...which is really useful to spot temptress turns and confirm Hannibals.

[prisma ledge]

Actor drunk during the day still receives correct info if sober in the night order righty?

[ruby shore]

Correct - the sobriety of the Actor only matters when they get their info

[still ridge]

does anyone have a json where you can put duplicate reminders?

[ruby shore]

The file download in pins should have it

[umbral hatch]

@tawdry thorn - could we get this JSON pinned.

[ruby shore]

Pinned! 🫡

[umbral hatch]

Thanks!

[crystal heart]

Gave +1 Thanks to @ruby shore (current: #2 - 1110)

[modern prism]

is there a pnp for the tokens for this

[modern prism]

anyone?

[umbral hatch]

Sorry Fieras. Yes PNP is available. Seen your message, and will reply shortly.

[azure crater]

So Mabel and I are making a meme homebrew script, can we borrow the I Am Spartacus fabled

[dim meteor]

We promise it will have a fun cameo 🙂

[rapid stream]

Is there a reason that The Temptress doesn't say "Two other players"? We had a player misread the ability and I can't see a reason why The Temptress would ever want to pick themselves

[kind drift]

because it dies and loses its ability before turning the other player evil i believe

[rapid stream]

That's my point. There's no reason to pick itself, so why make that an option?

It just seems like it punishes players for misreading and does nothing else

[kind drift]

To keep the ability short and concise?

There is still strategic worth tbf

Hiding the ping

Not much worth, but still worth

[rapid stream]

The word "other" does not add that much length to the ability imo

[rapid stream]

I think the value here is much less than the downside of players being confused, such as what happened during our game

Again, just a suggestion, I think it would be better to include the word "other" to avoid confusion since it's a more advanced script

[rapid stream]

Also, can someone explain to me how The Scholar is beneficial to town? It seems like a weaker version of The Huntsman. Genuinely trying to see if I'm just missing something with the role

[heady dome]

If anything its stronger than huntsman, since it gets multiple attempts. It doesnt have to nominate an outsider first try

And I also dont think there's very many (if any other) to change character on this script, making the Scholar hard confirmed by the outsider

[rapid stream]

The Huntsman doesn't necessarily have to add an outsider though, which I think makes it stronger. From my understanding, it can convert an existing outsider into the Damsel.

[rapid stream]

I feel like that's pretty weak compared to something like The Librarian or the Nightwatchman

[heady dome]

True, but Scholar also removes the outsider and adds a townsfolk, which is more likely to happen than it is with Huntsman. You're right about Huntsman not adding an outsider

[rapid stream]

But it only removes the outsider it added, right? I'm really not seeing much benefit

I just think it shouldn't add an outsider

[heady dome]

There's pros and cons compared to Huntsman, I think just try it out in a game and see how it works

[rapid stream]

We did, and it didn't seem particularly impactful, hence why I'm commenting on it

We played 3 games of Fall of Rome tonight, and The Scholar and The Temptress both stood out to me as characters that may need minor tweaks. But I don't have much experience with the script

[indigo fiber]

Scholar is like a bit of a weaker Nightwatchman in that it hard confirms themself to the outsider they change... which could be Spartacus, taking away a win condition from evil. It's not always powerful, but I don't think Scholar is that weak

[rapid stream]

But if it removes Spartacus, it added another outsider to replace it. Or if it was a native zero outsider game, it only fixes the outsider it added

[modern prism]

Does Spartacus want to die?

I'd they die they can't lose the game from being chosen anymore?

[rapid stream]

I'd say generally if I'm Spartacus I'm okay with dying

[ruby shore]

Yes, but given that it’s probably the only good character okay with dying on the script it can be hard to actually get killed without getting guessed

[dark rose]

Imo Scholar is roughly the same in power as nwm

with nwm if you choose an evil player they can just deny that it ever happened

with scholar you are almost certainly turning a good player into a townsfolk and you have multiple attempts

[umbral hatch]

Sorry - have been camping. Of course you can.

I may be biased, but I feel like Scholar fills a great design space and is a relatively strong ‘confirmation’ character.

[umbral hatch]

Exactly. However they could be temptress turned already 😉

So not necessarily a good player everyone.

[dark rose]

well ofc

but also you’d have the executed player saying about the ping

[normal zodiac]

I don't think its that simple

The Huntsman either adding or converting an Outsider into the damsel messes with Outsider count

And can make games more difficult to solve

The scholar is consistent

The scholar takes away a Townsfolk but if it succeeds it comes with a socially trustworthy, two way confirmation chain

Librarian does do something similar sure, but I still think Scholar is more powerful than the Huntsman

It has several opportunities to turn outsiders

[prisma ledge]

I think the Scholar is fine and very powerful. In my games I have noticed that if someone claims scholar outsiders will usually out , as either they are bluffing (unlikely ) or glykon poisoned / auger and the benefit of a hard confirmed scholar is a much better benefit .

Plus , in a big game you might have limited townsfolks not in play and all might be in demon bluffs. That's extremely powerful for the good team to eliminate an extra bluff.

[ruby shore]

I like the Scholar design space - i've been involved in games that have been won off a Scholar turn, and won off evil bluffing a Scholar turn

it's definitely not weak

[prisma ledge]

I agree

I don't think there is anything weak in this script , currently it is the only homebrew worth the investment because it's fully balanced in my opinion

[normal zodiac]

Oh yes and unlike Librarian

Scholar can't be bluffed by grimseers

Because it has a mechanical effect

(not that FoR has any grimseers, but I guess my point is that its a mechanical effect)

[rapid stream]

I think I've been convinced on The Scholar. Any thoughts to changing Temptress to say other players? Is there a value there that I'm missing?

The only edge case I see is in a 7~9 player game being able to bury the existence of the Temptress, which admittedly seems like a pretty bad play

[ruby shore]

sinking the temptress is genuinely viable given how powerful the other minions are

in bigger games it can be better to just pick an evil player and a good player to convert, if you're trying to hide the temptress, but sinking on yourself to confuse town on which evil characters are in play should be allowed

hell hath no fury like a town convinced there's a glykon among them (the temptress chose the evil team)

[late sail]

temptress is already at 150ch when abilities should usually be less than that, adding other would do it no favours in that regard

changing "two" for a "2" would be a good change but its not gonna shave off enough characters to add that "other"

[upbeat palm]

I have seen multiple games (including one last Sunday) where the two tempted players outed and treated it as hard confirmation that they were both good. That needs to be countered somehow. A self-picking temptress is one option. It's similar to a self-cursing witch - rare and seldom useful, but necessary as a possibility.

With sympathies to thejellydude's player, it doesn't seem likely that they thought they had to pick themselves, so I infer that they just tried out an interesting niche option that didn't pan out.

[prisma ledge]

Never seen both outing

Because some people like the possibility of turning evil

[umbral hatch]

Depends on group and individual play styles. I’ve seen all three interactions a number of times.

1. neither outing
2. one outing
3. both outing and trust falling (I’ve also seen evil bluff this a few times successfully)

I’ve also seen tempted players getting executed and taking their tempting to the grave. Maybe for socials, I dunno!

[modern prism]

for hannibal, when the first hannibal dies, what are they told about becoming good

are they told?

are they told why?

do the minions know who the 2 hannibals are?

[broken salmon]

yes, no, yes

[modern prism]

when do you tell them they are good. night?

[broken salmon]

yes

[upbeat palm]

Quick tip... when the Hannibal thought that they were a role that learns alignment info, make really sure that they understand that they were shown a "you are" before the thumbs up!

[umbral hatch]

@plain quiver

Should be the latest pinned message 🙂

[plain quiver]

Got the ping thanks. The json still appears to have the same error that I sent you using the pinned link above and cannot select multiple legionarries when setting a game up.

[crystal heart]

Gave +1 Thanks to @umbral hatch (current: #587 - 41)

[umbral hatch]

I imagine this may be with the latest update?

[plain quiver]

I havent tried any earlier versions so I cant answer that. I know someone who can likely fix it for me if I send him the json (beyond my skills!)

[umbral hatch]

Beyond my skills too - let me know if you have any success and we can post the updated JSON here

[rustic sable]

Hey Alex, want to suggest a minor update to the Bad Omen json

• Swap reminders to remindersGlobal so they always appear in the main tab
• Add the replace-character special reveal property so that in grim reveal they're shown as a Bad Omen instead of the character they saw (does work with multiple Bad Omens, which I wasn't sure if it would before testing it haha)

I'd also recommend changing Hannibal's reminders to remindersGlobal for the same reason

[kind drift]

Those are this for the json made for the official

Believe that one also has duplicate reminders & prevents you from adding BO & hannibal to the bag

[analog magnet]

Is there a printer friendly pdf? I see there is a printer friendly image here but it is pretty low res: #1030804651085402142 message

[umbral hatch]

Give me a few moments - I’ll try get something across

@analog magnet

[analog magnet]

Thank you!!

[hot crescent]

If the cleopatra chooses the centurion while they are sober and the centurion claims spartacus the following day, does the centurion die?

[dark rose]

personally, i'd say that if the centurion then nominates then yes

but i mean really it depends on when you assess the safety

some people would say that bc they’re sober at the point of choosing, the reminder never gets placed and so the Centurion can’t die regardless

but others would place it and then assess the safety once the centurion is actually attacked

[umbral hatch]

I would agree with this approach. But as long as the Storyteller is clear with how they are ruling it, it can be done either way :- whichever your group prefers

[upbeat palm]

Fun conundrum if you do want to run Centurion as safe from Cleo's token going down...

Spartacus is selected by cleopatra. That day, they are nominated by the scholar and become a Centurion. They then nominate, but claim Spartacus at the very last possible second before the day ends. Do they die, or did the token go away in the short period that they had a working ability?

(Personally, I'd say just put the damn token down.)

[fringe blade]

yo @umbral hatch shouldnt have the blacksmith the same

sorry for the ping tho siv

[broken salmon]

this version should have it

[umbral hatch]

All good - hopefully the JSON Eliderad has shared does the trick?

I’m currently away on holiday (albeit not in Rome), so am unable to update/check any JSONs!

[fringe blade]

I have updated it myself

[stark oyster]

@haughty finch are there any scheduled Fall of Rome games anytime soon?

[haughty finch]

wrong alex 😦

[stark oyster]

@umbral hatch are there any scheduled Fall of Rome games anytime soon?

[umbral hatch]

Not from me personally! But I do believe the game does regularly get run here on the sever. If you assign yourself the role in #homebrew-roles you can be notified when a game is getting organised.

[meager quarry]

Is there a neat printable script
Here? I can’t find it online

[pure eagle]

#1030804651085402142 message

[meager quarry]

Thank you!

[crystal heart]

Gave +1 Thanks to @pure eagle (current: #936 - 14)

[meager quarry]

If two players are executed. Does mortician learn two infos?

I think not

[pastel valley]

If a Sibyl is in play and uses their ability, executing and killing a player place the second RECENTLY EXECUTED reminder token next to the player. If there are now 2 RECENTLY EXECUTED reminder tokens on the grimoire, wake the Mortician as normal. Clarify which piece of information they are receiving first by pointing to the associated player with the RECENTLY EXECUTED reminder token.

[meager quarry]

Sorry I’m not clear, do I point at both executes and give mort info on both or just one? So…point at executee- give info, point again, other info? Or just point at one and info?

[pastel valley]

give info for both, be sure to specify which is which

[meager quarry]

Ahhh. Thanks

[crystal heart]

Gave +1 Thanks to @pastel valley (current: #2201 - 1)

[meager quarry]

I’m running irl on picket grim tonight. Any tips from this channel?

[kind drift]

Short private chat phase

Since public stuff takes so long

[neon hawk]

𝐹αℓℓ σƒ ʀσɱε

[meager quarry]

Thanks

[crystal heart]

Gave +1 Thanks to @kind drift (current: #155 - 244)

[meager quarry]

Standard bearer has to claim it for ability to work right?

[kind drift]

yup

[meager quarry]

Thanks

[crystal heart]

Gave +1 Thanks to @kind drift (current: #154 - 245)

[meager quarry]

Also, for scholar, the text at the top says immediately but the how to run says at night. I’m understanding that the change is truly immediate but I don’t inform the player till night?

[kind drift]

yee

[meager quarry]

Thanks

Crassus counts the 5 like SW right? Like if it’s Crassus and 4 others and Crassus dies it passes over?

Separate scenario, all evil but Crassus are dead. There’s enough live players for crass to pass. Can I pass it to “resisters as evil”?

[kind drift]

yes, yes

think so