Madness Ensues

[exotic garden]

Ravenwood's Bluff has recently opened up a toystore. With the toystore, came joy throughout the town. Many of the townsfolk found jobs at the store, while the children played. As time went on the children came to the store less and less, which lead the Toymaker to do whatever he could to get his beloved customers back. His experiments resulted in success, until he made a board with many letters that could be used for undesirable purposes.

With a demon on the loose, the town panicked. The panic quickly turned to madness, which the town will have to overcome in order to take out the demon. Fortunately for them, there has been rumor that a famous detective is in the area.

[solemn dagger]

About the pretender, do you become the townsfolk that you were mad as, or do you turn into any townsfolk? Because the latter is what the wording says, but the former kinda makes more sense

Also, if a Pretender became a Detective, they just have good info, don't they?

[exotic garden]

1. The Pretender turns into a Random Townsfolk

2. The Pretender probably won't ever become the Detective, because it has an ability that alters the grim

The Pretender is ultimately designed to help throw around some fake madness, and it could be used as the demon to save themselves in a tight spot

[tall lagoon]

With Gem Thief, how long is the random player made mad for when Gem Thief dies, and what happens if the mad player breaks madness?

[exotic garden]

They are mad the entire game

and if they break

well

I have made these for each game

[strange smelt]

Thoughts:

1. The accountant essentially reads: "Learn if the Seeker or the Don are in play". Cut.
2. The author reads "Learn how many of the donator, the jollyman, and the vybor are in play". Cut.
3. Toymaker is very ST chooses dependent. Even though the defence "they might be mad" can be made for evil who's bluffs have been caught, that mitigation tool only works when their is another evil ping on a player / a good ping on a player.
4. Chessmaster / Checkermaster could be replaced with a character with more flexibility, i.e. a drunk that can double up with any other character in play.
5. As the pretender, you can just out as the pretender for zero drawback. The pretender is a (very weak) townsfolk.
6. The toymaker can't be successfully bluffed by evil except by "oh I was mad". The toymaker is very "ST chooses", what with the flat choice of giving the toymaker a role that is been bluffed / not been bluffed. I think it needs revision, possibly cut.
7. Plague doctor, Ventrioloquist, and Seeker are quite ambiguous. Need rephrasing.

THEME: Execution failing
(Don, Cursed, Crusader)
This theme is currently too thin. Like, compare to BmR (Sailor / Fool / Pacifist / Tea Lady / DA). If good has a crusader then the cursed never gets to do stuff. Crusaders should always use their ability night 1 so that they can confirm their target is either good or a don is in play. This theme needs more, or needs to be cut.

Things Scripts Probably need:

1. Chessmaster is the only tool good has for confirming players are good. Crusader and Toy Soldier kinda too. Script could use a good confirming tool.
2. Town's only motive to kill night 1 is crusader, who specifically calls for an exact player to execute. Script needs a better day 1 execute motivator.
3. Detective, Jollyman, Speaker demon hunt. Watchman mostly demon hunts. Toymaker evil hunts. The script needs a tool to hunt minions.

--

I'm pretty sure you will be able to find at least 7 players to run the script in scheduled once its gotten a polish run, but the script definitely needs some polish first.

[exotic garden]

@strange smelt Appreciated! If you have any replacements for the night 1 roles please let me know, because im not a huge fan myself

(and yes I need to rephrase alot)

Also if you have a good idea for another townsfolk that protects during executions, please tell me

fr though, this is actually some advice I needed

If you have a good minion hunter or toymaker substitute that would also be great

[supple kestrel]

the detective should say they register as a random character to everyone but the hitman, imo

otherwise raw the hitman can’t really hit them lol

[exotic garden]

oh yeah :/

thats probably a good idea

[exotic garden]

Do you think this role will help with the failed theme?

[strange smelt]

I think before that, like, re-evaluating whether the execution protection theme fits is a good idea. If it does, then you can take the script the BmR route where day 1 executions are used to gather information, which will require new characters. If it doesn't, then that opens up room to take crusader + don + cursed off the script and add more characters that support the other main themes.

The butterfly would help the execution fail theme, but it eats a slot for a character that only interacts with the don / the cursed. The don is extremely busted, and even if the +1 minion gets removed it has balance issues related to its power spike between 7-9 players and 10+ players. The cursed is very, very strong for evil; if they get executed, they act as a constant "maybe I'm the demon (wink)" the whole game until final 3, as well as giving evil number advantage. The don + cursed as written let evil get a literal majority in 7 player games.

I'd be strongly tempted to cut the "prevent execution" theme entirely.

The don is very similar to lil'monsta, except its much much stronger.

[exotic garden]

Every time I ran this script town pretty much won, so ive been trying to buff evils

(I could make cursed a night death only)

(if youthink that will help)

[exotic garden]

Should I replace don with this?

[supple kestrel]

ooh?? lm with more player agency??

[strange smelt]

I suspect the reason town is winning is because:

1. the minions are all much lower power than most BotC minions (hitman adds a pseudo-damsel, plague doctor lets you protect the demon if you choose the demon each night, seeker is a conditional assassin, Ventriloquist is a ceranovus with an extremely restrictive condition).
2. Determining the demon is not important for the solve, don excluded. Like, in SnV what the demon is matters for the solve, in BmR what the demon is matters for death info and through that the solve. The demon mostly gets caught on this script by a demon catcher getting an exact read, and town following that info.

[strange smelt]

That said, I do think Crimson necklace improves upon the Don.

[exotic garden]

alright

[exotic garden]

@strange smelt Hate to bother you but you seem to know alot about how to make good roles, if I gave the seeker 1 kill per in play minion would that help?

[strange smelt]

nah I'm happy to theorycraft and discuss game design!

[strange smelt]

So, that would have the consequence of meaning in a 9 player game the seeker gets to kill 1 player, but in a 10 player game the seeker gets to kill 2 players. This would seem to awkwardly effect balance, as its desirable that minions should be as powerful in a 12 player game as in a 7 player one.

[uncut merlin]

Personally, one of the characters I draw the biggest issue with is the Jollyman. It's a stronger exorcist in that it doesn't announce who the Jollyman is to the demon, AND it can target minions and outsiders. Weirdly, because it lasts till dawn instead of dusk, any daytime role is immune to it. Conversely, it's also a poisoner, but with changing targets and dawn expiration instead of at dusk. Just occupies this really weird space where it's too strong, but also doesn't fit being a good aligned role very well

[exotic garden]

yeah, Jollyman is a pretty bad role but it holds a special place in my heart

but fr, if you have a good replacement let me know

Same with Seeker

[strange smelt]

Sleeper: Each night, learn how many of your neighbours are either "mad" or evil.

You could replace jollyman with preacher; preacher is nice because it opens up a bit of room for minions to bluff watchman

[strange smelt]

I think the script on a structural level could use:

1. Execution empowerment (UT / Oracle / Minstrel / Cannibal)
2. A "demon solve" mechanic, and a reason why solving demon helps town solve game.
3. more day 1 pings / more "please kill me to gather info" day 1 pings
4. Sources of "madness" that don't force players to be mad as role, but about other information (e.g. meta information / their own night info / Yeah I can survive execution), because too much role madness means that role claims no longer matter as much.

[exotic garden]

alright

@strange smelt So add more roles that act like Pretender/Pixie?

being mad for a reward

tbh, I dont like cutting out roles but its probably for the best

[exotic garden]

What if I made it where if Jollyman drunks demon, deaths are abritrairy?

(tbh I wanna make it a 100% homebrew)

[strange smelt]

Each night, choose a player: If evil, their choices are arbitrary until dawn. <- I think this is how I'd frame the character.

[strange smelt]

Pixie is a good example of a townsfolk you want exactly 1 of; too many pixie type characters can hurt as script.

The theme of your script is madness. Role madness is a resource that if pushed too hard breaks the core tension of: "Good players tell the truth = minions get hunted successfully for double claims // Good players lie = minions don't get caught as much double claiming". This presents a game design challenge: what madness effects can you add that support the theme but aren't the only madness mechanic in BotC so far, role madness?

[exotic garden]

I added a few fabled up above that could be used

[exotic garden]

Yeah, this may work

im thinking of a good top 4

[exotic garden]

What if I did a slayer that kills minions?

[exotic garden]

Alr, its time I start reworking this script

[exotic garden]

@strange smelt Hey, you have time to help me out?

if not, its fine

Basically, I am trying to remake my script

well, modify it

and I got the idea that I may be able to have my character types all have a certain group

Investigative, Offensive, Protective

While 3 (of the now 5) and 2 of the demons will register as Offensive, the other 2 minions and 2 demons will register as an Investigative and Protective (1 for each character type)

This would help give the town a good reason to try to find out what demon they are dealing with

and may give me an idea for a weaker undertaker role that sees character types

aswell as another role that can actively search for them

Just want to know if it sounds like a good idea

[strange smelt]

I think its good to segregate characters into buckets like that and provide tools to detect those buckets

Tags are a time honored game mechanic and work in basically any game

[exotic garden]

alr

So I am thinking of making a role that visits one each night and sees what type they are

and remaking Toymaker into an undertaker that sees role types

I am just a bit worried that the Former will basically make the latter useless