#Looking for a beta reader šŸ‘

1 messages Ā· Page 1 of 1 (latest)

pearl robin
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Good description...maybe post an extract so we can see your style.

gusty robin
pearl robin
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A "chapter" is usually good...so that would depend on how you've broken up your piece. Anywhere from 3-5,000 words is typical.

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I'd offer to read just based on the description, but I'm in the middle of editing a memoir, so I won't be available (except for short pieces) until that's done.

gusty robin
pearl robin
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That's a good place to start. If you pick a chapter out of the middle, you'd have to give a lot of explanation first, right?

gusty robin
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Honestly yeah. I wrote this story in a somewhat episodic way, but the beginning sets the stage for sure,

pearl robin
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Most readers/editors can tell a LOT from just how the story opens.

gusty robin
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Okay. That would be helpful.

pearl robin
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Yes, setting the stage is important.

pearl robin
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Thanks.......
At first glance, I see a lot of exposition. There's only one place where any dialogue stands out: bottom of p7.
I'll look it over, but it seems a bit dense.

gusty robin
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Iā€™ve tried to be limited with dialogue during this project. I used to rely on it too much

pearl robin
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Readers tend to like it. [shrug]

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Although you've used semi-colons correctly 90% of the time, it might be good to get rid of as many as you can.

gusty robin
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I really like em dashes a lot

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Iā€™ve tried to minimize my usage

pearl robin
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"Here is a lesson in creative writing. First rule: Do not use semicolons.
They are transvestite hermaphrodites representing absolutely nothing.
All they do is show you've been to college.
ā€” Kurt Vonnegut, A Man Without a Country

gusty robin
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LOL well I have been to college

pearl robin
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Em dashes are wonderful critters. I tend to use them a lot, too.

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It shows.

gusty robin
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You suggest I replace a few with em dashes?

pearl robin
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Or full-stops. As I was scrolling through, I noticed more than a few that were used incorrectly, but the rest were officially 'good'.

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I don't see any ellipses...?

gusty robin
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Iā€™ll fix it up. Thank you.

pearl robin
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A correctly used semi-colon comes between complete clauses or sentences, so if what comes after doesn't have both a verb and a subject, then it should be an em dash...if anything.

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The first one:

Aimless, nameless heat from the undercarriage of the hulking sun; Godā€™s eye, poppingā€”fast and quick.

gusty robin
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Oh yeah.

pearl robin
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Not even a verb in the first part, though fragments are considered acceptable these days.

gusty robin
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Iā€™ll still fix it

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Thank you

pearl robin
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Another example:

Similar stature too; above-average height and wiry like Ethan.

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Again, a fragment.
It could be connected to the sentence before.

gusty robin
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Okay just fixed that

pearl robin
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Here's another one...not really needed.

They were laughing and pointing to the stain of cricket blood from the morning; their sounds echoed.

And here's how I might edit it.

They were laughing and pointing at the stain of cricket blood from the morning's activitiesā€”the sounds echoing.

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As I said, I like dashes. šŸ™‚

gusty robin
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Me too. I wasnā€™t sure if they were professional or not.

pearl robin
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It's a good way to introduce new (exciting) info for the reader.

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Professional for college essays...maybe no.
But for the reading audience in general, yeah...

gusty robin
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Oh okay. Thank you.

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@pearl robin thank you for taking the time to read. Itā€™s much appreciated

pearl robin
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I see 14 chunks of dialogue, but only 3 uses of 'said'.
I hope you're not trying to avoid it.

gusty robin
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Iā€™m actually not lol

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Thereā€™s more of it later

pearl robin
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Using 'said' turns invisible for the reader, but replacing it all over the place with various other words (to avoid repeating), can be like waving hands in the reader's face.

gusty robin
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I can add some more saids if you want. I have no issue with it

pearl robin
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Good. This may just be an intro...watch out for too much of that, too.
See if you can start in the middle of a fight, then fill in details later...if needed.

gusty robin
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Hmmmm. I see. Thatā€™s kinda why I jumped into the fight with Ethan and Aaron

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I guess there was too much introduction

gusty robin
pearl robin
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You've got to hook the reader right up front...or they'll never make it past the first page or so.

gusty robin
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Okay. I see. Too much description at first

pearl robin
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Entomology is fun...but catch the reader's emotion first.

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I prefer to study etymology. šŸ™‚

gusty robin
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So start with Ethan hunting an Isopod and then Aaron keeps yelling to him. They fight.

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Or start during the fight because it captures attention

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šŸ¤”šŸ¤”

pearl robin
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If the hunt is exciting.
I'd think starting with some kind of conflict would be good. Let Aaron sneak up on Ethan as he is trying to catch a bug, and they can fight right off the bat.

gusty robin
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Ethan is the asshole instigator

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Aaron is too nice for that. My mc is a cranky asshole

pearl robin
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Yes, during. Fill in the details after you've got the reader interested in at least one of your characters...preferably the MC.

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Ah! Good! A MC we love to hate.

gusty robin
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Heā€™s very hatable

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Hateable*

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Iā€™ll try to rewrite it.

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Thank you

pearl robin
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(You're on a phone now, so you probably don't have the capability to edit posts, right?)

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Let me try something:

Ethan looked back at the noise. ā€œShut the hell up, Aaron. Canā€™t you see Iā€™m busy?ā€ he asked, yelling back into the wind.
ā€œBusy doing nothing,ā€ Aaron replied.

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How about using something like that for the FIRST line?

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We get the two characters, we know something's going on, we know there's noise and wind (setting the scene), and we have a snide comment to pull in the reader.

gusty robin
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Want to know something funny?

pearl robin
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What's that?

gusty robin
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Thatā€™s where I started before you said that

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I agree with you

pearl robin
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Perfect!

gusty robin
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And then Iā€™ll fill in the gaps later.

pearl robin
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Minor setting of the scene, so we don't have talking heads in the dark, conflict, action, then go on from there.

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And when you fill in the details (about the bugs) put it in the POV of your MC.

gusty robin
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While youā€™re here, I have one question. My main character, Ethan, probably needs a more tragic backstory to be so indifferent toward people but a lot of it just stems from ego and wanting to prove himself.

pearl robin
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I've found that if you know the character's backstory, it will seep out in the writing. You shouldn't have to tell the reader about it...let the reader figure it out from what the characters do (ie, show, don't tell).

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I don't know about others, but when I'm writing a scene, I like to get into the POV character's head and visualize the whole scene as if I am the character.

gusty robin
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Yeah Iā€™ve tried very hard not to tell so much in this story

pearl robin
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That's good. Just picture things as Ethan would see them and relate that to the reader.

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Filter everything through your POV character.

gusty robin
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@pearl robin anything that stuck out that you liked?

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Iā€™m editing the introduction now to be snappier. šŸ«”

pearl robin
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I actually didn't get very far into it...
Too much talking and nothing happening.

It will be better once you've re-written it.

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Unless Ethan is an entomologist (and knows all the scientific names of the critters), just stick with descriptions.
Not 'isopods'
Rather 'big multi-legged bugs'

You can have a science-guy show up later who uses all the correct terms...if you want.

gusty robin
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But yeah, I can see how you felt thereā€™s too much yapping

pearl robin
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Yes...I noticed, but will the reader have to stop and go look stuff up before getting into the exciting parts?

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(I did. šŸ™‚ )

gusty robin
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Iā€™m trimming the introduction but Iā€™d still like to call them isopods.

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Maybe I can describe them right after to clarify

pearl robin
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Is that the term all the locals use to talk about them?

gusty robin
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Rolly-polies, pill pugs

pearl robin
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I'm thinking of 'zombies' being called 'walkers' by the characters. Everyone know what they mean, but by using their own local terminology, it makes it a bit better.

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Yes, pill bugs. I saw pictures when I looked it up.

gusty robin
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Can I say ā€œisopods, commonly known as pill bugsā€

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So people donā€™t have to whip out Google

pearl robin
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I can't see the omniscient narrator talking like that...unless he's giving a lecture. šŸ§‘ā€šŸ«

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Yes, you want to educate, but the focus should be on entertain.

gusty robin
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Why not both šŸ¤“

pearl robin
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Definitely both!

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But you've got to get the reader interested in the characters, then sprinkle in some education.

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That's why I suggested a science-guy coming in to educate Ethan about stuff...and the reader gets to listen in and learn, too.

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Usually I suggest a Robin for the MC's Batman, but in this case, it's the other way around.
The MC doesn't know stuff, but a minor character does.

gusty robin
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Iā€™ll keep that in mind

pearl robin
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Good.

gusty robin
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@pearl robin thereā€™s an reoccurring enemy that humbles Ethan again. His armor breaks/is damaged to symbolize broken pride. The scientist tries to gauge the creatureā€™s weaknesses

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Thatā€™s my idea on a whim

pearl robin
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Interesting idea. I'd like to see how you implement it without just telling.

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šŸ‘‹
Home time for me...I get an early evening today! šŸŽ‰

gusty robin
pearl robin
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Much better beginning, but I'm afraid you might lose a few folks with the quick reference to 'isopods'.

Also, there is some confusing movement...It feels as if Ethan is ignoring Aaron, and is advancing towards the bugs, sword in hand...suddenly we are told that Ethan "charged at Aaron".

gusty robin
pearl robin
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That would be better.

gusty robin
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Oh wait

pearl robin
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If we're in Ethan's head, then the narration can include his terminology.
Either that or let him think it (or say it out loud).

gusty robin
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Sorry Westley

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Iā€™ll have to update it. I made that change on my main file

pearl robin
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Ah, so this isn't the latest?

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Theoretically, you can just edit the Google Doc, and I'll see the changes as you make them.

gusty robin
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Fixed it

gusty robin
pearl robin
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Yes, much better.

gusty robin
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My manuscript has the whole story so far

gusty robin
pearl robin
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Got it...two documents to keep concurrent.
That can be confusing...if you make edits to one and not the other...which one is the 'right' one?

gusty robin
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lol, this chapter 1 is just to show you guys

pearl robin
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Yes. I understand.

gusty robin
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I can link the whole manuscript though

pearl robin
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Five chapters...so far?

gusty robin
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Yep!

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Itā€™s been difficult but fun to write

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Iā€™ve had my attention split

pearl robin
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If it ain't fun, don't do it.

gusty robin
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Itā€™s very fun, but I definitely canā€™t sail through this one

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Iā€™m taking time on it

pearl robin
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Good. That should make it easier for you to edit.

gusty robin
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This one doesnā€™t have nearly as much dialogue as my old stories

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Yes, Iā€™m editing as I go lately. Thereā€™s less mess

gusty robin
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This is my 4th

pearl robin
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The others are complete?

gusty robin
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Complete as in the story is done and theyā€™re edited, but my first two manuscripts probably wonā€™t be published.

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Especially the first one. It just isnā€™t executed well

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I learned a lot from writing these

pearl robin
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That's the way to do it...make all the mistakes you can in the first few, then improve your craft as you go.

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I'm still a bit concerned that there's a lot of exposition and no dialogue.
Here's a view from 30,000 feet (as they say):

little_dialogue.png
gusty robin
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Iā€™ve had people read through my work and I saw what didnā€™t work and what did overtime.

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Holy moly

pearl robin
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It's rather dense.

gusty robin
# pearl robin I'm still a bit concerned that there's a lot of exposition and no dialogue. Here...

It is dense. My approach with this to make an explorative novel akin to blood meridian that travels different parts of this insect world. A lot of the actions speak for themselves but are up to interpretation. I purposely do not want too much dialogue because I tend to rely on it. When dialogue does appear, I want it to feel intentional and matter. So far it has. Dialogue is a crutch for me personally. So this story is an experiment.

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It definitely has Cormac McCarthy inspiration, among similar adventurous titles, with how landscapes are traversed

pearl robin
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Ah...in that case, go ahead and experiment.

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For reference, here's a sample of a different book (also at 30,000 feet):

image.png
gusty robin
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Yeah, my lack of dialogue is totally on purpose.

pearl robin
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I adjusted the page size and margins to match your book, so they'd be similar.

gusty robin
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My first book

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Is full of dialogue.

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Itā€™s titled Internal Death, but I jokingly call it ā€œinternal monologueā€

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It feels like a movie script

gusty robin
# pearl robin Ah...in that case, go ahead and experiment.

I have another manuscript Iā€™m currently querying called Fear Walker. Iā€™ve thrown it here before on another account named ā€œJust Passing By.ā€

Thatā€™s a thriller and thereā€™s a fair amount of dialogue in it. And some interiority via thoughts. I wanted to write something very different because that story physically stays in one spot

pearl robin
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Wow. McCarthy's style is interesting:

McCarthy told Oprah Winfrey in an interview that he preferred "simple declarative sentences" and that he used capital letters, periods, an occasional comma, a colon for setting off a list, but never semicolons. He believed there was no reason to "blot the page up with weird little marks".

gusty robin
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Heā€™s an extreme minimalist. Iā€™m going to be reading The Road soon. He chose Oprah to interview with because she lets people speak

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I also love McCarthy prose

pearl robin
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Oh! Meeting!
Be back in a few.

gusty robin
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And I love how Lee Child writes in his early Reacher books. Theyā€™re simple and to the point

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Take care, thank you again

pearl robin
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I wasn't paying attention to the time...I have a 1:30 with a client...and he's late, so I'm not. šŸ™‚

gusty robin
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Whatā€™s your profession?

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Arenā€™t you an editor? Iā€™ve talked to you before on another account

pearl robin
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Yes, I'm an editor.
I may have talked with you elsewhere...Reedsy?

gusty robin
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You write science fiction based on your life experiences

pearl robin
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Yup. That's me.
I searched for JustPassingBy here in Words Alike, but didn't see anything.

gusty robin
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I wiped my account

pearl robin
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You must have wiped it completely. There's no evidence of it remaining.

gusty robin
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Discord gets very distracting so I come and go

pearl robin
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Makes sense.