#Leveling Experience Is Pretty Rough

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

lyric moat
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Honestly, CoH has always been more of a game about the journey to 50, rather than the max level experience. I know that's not particularly true for every player, but it's the original concept, and it's something that will probably never be changed.

The primary reason is that there's no real need to rush your way to 50. Unlike most other MMOs, there's not really any massive current content raids you're missing out on. The level cap doesn't increase with each new issue, and friends can play together at any level thanks to the sidekick/exemplaring system.

lusty acorn
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"...the leveling experience hasn't changed since live..."

That's a feature, not a bug. Sorry, but my gut reaction to "a level a mission" is that it sounds crazy on its surface.

golden mason
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Leveling speed seems fine for me. Reasonably fast for damage-oriented archetypes until mid-20s or so, then it starts to slow down. Non-damage oriented ATs will always be slower unless teaming.

untold hamlet
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I do think it is a little harder on the red and gold side. Fewer people = less teaming = slower going. But I think there are other fixes for that than adjusting the leveling curve.

lyric moat
lusty acorn
# lyric moat A level a mission isn't so much a re-structuring of the leveling experience, as ...

You're right, but that said, OP does have a point. It can be pretty demoralizing to log in, be LFG, or trying to put a task force together, and get nothing but crickets and tumbleweeds. I have some thoughts on that subject that I haven't aired publicly, because I haven't yet figured out how to have a constructive conversation about it. But I strongly doubt that the answer is to hyperinflate the leveling experience.

lyric moat
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I'll agree with that. The problem is a valid one, but the proposed solution is both heavyhanded and not fitting in the spirit of the game.

eager cedar
eager cedar
eager cedar
# lusty acorn You're right, but that said, OP does have a point. It can be pretty demoralizing...

i think we both know that airing it publicly would likely kick the hornets next, alot of people here would rather die on a hill of grindy playability than accept the fact that its 2023 and not alot of MMO's have that old tradition any longer, there may be other methods to this tbh, as a game developer myself its futile to log on and expect to just find a team and play when unfortunately the majority of players are on other servers.

lusty acorn
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That's pretty far off my point, but I suspect we just want different things here. Good luck finding something more your speed.

lyric moat
# eager cedar its a suggestion, i didnt say it was a bug, its a suggestion to improve somethin...

World of Warcraft is also very centered around the current expansion content, and it's story. That's not a situation that exists on CoH. WoW is built mechanically to get people into the current zone as fast as possible so they can do current things with friends/guildmates. CoH doesn't have any of that. And, as far as MMOs go, CoH is incredibly solo friendly. While playing with a team is certainly more fun, and required for TF/Trials, there's a ton of available content that is just as entertaining, and far better than most MMO's solo experience of "Go kill 10 boars" or "Take this McGuffin to that person".

And, to bring it a bit full circle, as a game developer, you should know how drastic a change "a level per mission" would be in this game's growth curve. Most mid-to-late story arcs would be outleveled before the arc was complete. Most TF/Trials would go from being the bare minimum to start to massively overleveled in a single run. You're talking about a change that would effectively just give everyone near-instant 50s. If that's what you want from CoH, that's fine. There are servers out that that have that as an option. But that's not Rebirth, and it's not what the core players (or more importantly, the dev team) want from the game.

eager cedar
# lyric moat World of Warcraft is also very centered around the current expansion content, an...

yes because COH was shutdown and the server info was kept for so long behind closed doors, had it kept going it would have changed the way its leveling speed, alot of MMO's as i said had already started doing this and works.

COH is not solo friendly lol, try playing as a controller, the leveling is brutal, but thats really besides the point here, the leveling itself for all AT's is pretty slow, the devs actually started working on this when they started to introduce the new contacts in AP, so the motions were in place, they just didnt have enough time to finish them.

A level per mission was just an idea, it wasnt something that i would set in stone, SWTOR pretty much does this itself, WoW just the same regardless of its story, they knew that people just dont have the time due to commitments like work and family.

I do love the gate keeping of your precious server whenever someone suggests something, its always the go to reaction "leave its not for you it will never change".

You do not speak for the core players of this server, they can voice themselves, i just made a suggestion and you decided to come in here with some kind of authority as if your the chairman of the leveling committee, again i am just voicing an opinion, no need to bash it to pieces just because you disagree!

cyan kelp
# eager cedar yes because COH was shutdown and the server info was kept for so long behind clo...

Hixxy, I think you're taking this a little too personally. Darius was only offering reasoned arguments for why things are different in the scenarios that you mentioned.

Rebirth is also very well known for a player base that prefers a game that is closer to live and maintains a feeling of meaningful progression. Darius does not speak for the core players of this server, but that IS effectively the mission statement of the server.

You have responded to a polite discussion with personal accusations and attacks, and that is not a way to win people to your side.

lyric moat
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  1. Those MMOs have entirely different concepts from CoH, namely continuous expansions and level cap increases. The speedup in leveling times is a result of that to keep the time to max level roughly consistent as the amount of levels increases.
  2. I have several solo controllers and defenders, who are probably the slowest of leveling archetypes. And the new AP missions don't change the speed of leveling, they're just a bit more streamlined in terms of door locations and with arc stories instead of random missions.
  3. If you're going to propose a solution, it needs to be grounded in reality.
  4. If you'd spent any time here, you'd know I am one of the most vocal critics on a great many of Rebirth's choices.
  5. I never bashed your opinion, I pointed out where it was flawed, and not in keeping with this server's stated core goals. If you choose to take that as a personal attack, then that's on you, not me.
eager cedar
flint stone
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Please keep the discussion civil and on topic.

cyan kelp
eager cedar
# lyric moat 1. Those MMOs have entirely different concepts from CoH, namely continuous expan...

  1. again, had the server been up, there would be more expansions and changes to the core game, that was the devs intentions when they formed Paragon Studios.

  2. ok lol

  3. it was grounded in reality, as i backed it up with other games that do the same thing.

  4. i dont chat here often, but thats for my reasons, i dont really care if you're vocal here, doesnt change the fact you came in to this with the intention of authority over my suggestion.

  5. it wasnt flawed, to you maybe, but it had merits as i had stated previously.

alpine mesa
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Hey folks. Things seem to be getting a bit heated in here. To get us back onto the topic of what could be done with the leveling experience: Right now the things done to help out the leveling process, as far as I'm aware I could be forgetting something, are the experienced charges from the paragon tree along with those and XP boosters found in super packs. With those combined, you are able to boost up experience about 50 percent I want to say.

Is this enough? Are these just not prevalent enough or are they too hard to obtain? Far as I am aware we have a decent mix of folks who all have varying desires for speed of leveling. It's difficult to strike a good balance for everyone.

eager cedar
# alpine mesa Hey folks. Things seem to be getting a bit heated in here. To get us back onto t...

im suggestion changes to the leveling, i dont play too often on here because acquiring the booster packs isnt that easy, they cost what, like 10 mill per pack?

And the charges, sure but they dont offer much, my point is is that getting the xp curve in line with modern MMO's might help this server become a bit more popular, im tired of logging on and there is literally no one to play with, no one forming DFB's, no one forming task forces, and sure, you will tell me that you guys do form the TF's and such but its all organised on specific dates, it just isnt good enough, making changes to the game to be a little more solo friendly might actually be a good thing.

Not heated here at all, im just tired of suggesting things, not just from here, but anywhere else and you always get one person who comes in with a position of authority over my suggestion, granted its not perfect, but i dont see why my suggestion should be shot down and insulted because it doesnt sit right with them, thats all.

I was excited about the update and thought "man this might bring back a few people to team up with", nope, its dead as a doornail in there, thats the harsh truth and its depressing to see that when all i have wanted was to play and level up in a timely manner that wouldnt result me draining weeks or months of my time to do so, i think thats a fair point.

visual monolith
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I think the main issue with leveling is that level rewards that feel "real" are heavily front-loaded

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But it's not a problem that needs changing

eager cedar
visual monolith
eager cedar
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i guess an interesting change could be that certain story arcs are given extra XP and item rewards as a "golden path" , kinda like Elden Ring in a way?

alpine mesa
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I'm sorry you've had this experience on our server post release. Thank you for the feedback. The topic of our leveling curve has been something that is brought up time and time again. I find it difficult to quantify because everyone I have seen discuss this has different desires. Some are here because we are slower. Some are here because we have features they want.

I feel like we try to come up with the smartest solution. With something as big as this however, it's a big thing that requires big thinking. It's something I've been chewing on for my entire time here. It's even harder to gauge because of how mixed the opinions we get. I have some ideas of things that might be done during the leveling process that you can make decisions on while leveling but I can't guarantee anything.

eager cedar
# alpine mesa I'm sorry you've had this experience on our server post release. Thank you for t...

i can completely understand your position, my intention is not to cause stress about the leveling here, my only goal is to share suggestions and they are reasonable for the server, as the old saying goes, "you cant please everyone".

i would genuinely love to hear your ideas on the leveling process as its one of the main reasons why i log on then log off because i never feel like i have accomplished much in say 2-3 hours of play time, you know?

alpine mesa
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I'll go over one. Purchasable XP boosters for Reward Merits or Alignment Merits. The core concept being to give the player a decision as they are leveling to Spend and speed up leveling/bank boosters for valuable events (50 tip teams, ITFs, etc) or Save the merits they earn as they progress in levels and do story arcs. This however runs into the issue of super packs from alignment merits, holiday salvage, and the paragon tree also feeding into this. Then I run into the problem of determining the costs of these and have to weigh them against the expectations of our players. Come up with use cases of the solo player vs in a team, trying not to overvalue teams but not undervalue soloing. Finally if all that is answered I have to ask "Is this the correct solution or is there something cleaner?"

And for the record: I am not guaranteeing this concept that I am publicizing in this thread makes it into development or live in any way. Just don't want to get hopes up.

visual monolith
# alpine mesa I'll go over one. Purchasable XP boosters for Reward Merits or Alignment Merits....

Purchasable xp boosters was something I was going to suggest, or even something as lofty as purchasing a level directly for an amount of merits that scales with the xp cost of that level e.g. 1000 reward merits to go from 29 to 30. Something for the merit hoarders that also rewards players making new alts for having a stockpile of merits on another character (wait - merits are email-able right?)

#

Anything that we can take out of the loot box pool is nice

final egret
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I'm in agreement with the folks who have pointed out that CoX has always been more about the journey than the destination. Having said that, if some folks want to level more quickly I do support an option that allows them to do that as long as the original path of standard levelling speed is preserved for those of us who are happy with the game as designed. What would drive me (and I suspect others) away would be eliminating the standard speed of levelling via some global change.

visual monolith
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I def think that level speed ups ought to be earned in a way that feels balanced with the normal route.

eager cedar
safe obsidian
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Sorry, I think this idea would genuinely destroy the game.

visual monolith
eager cedar
# final egret I'm in agreement with the folks who have pointed out that CoX has always been mo...

Thats one thing i wouldnt want is to drive players away, i did come up with some ideas about the leveling system to be intact while also helping casual players get through the levels a little quicker.

  1. Seperate servers, one called Rebirth Classic CoH and one just as Rebirth, the only issue is if both have all the updates then it makes no sense to seperate them.

  2. The "Golden Path" idea isn't too bad, it doesnt take away the leveling experience away because it is purely optional.

  3. A new set of contacts that are scattered through the various zones each unlocked after performing a certain amount of missions.

  4. Boosting the reward and xp rate in heists, this one i like, it means then that you work towards this by completing so many missions and then once you get access to stop a bank robbery or perform the robbery itself redside then you could potentially earn some rewards and a nice xp bonus.

  5. Create specfic dev approved level arcs in AE and have the xp and reward rare slightly adjusted to be higher.

  6. TF's to be soloable and xp rates adjusted to be higher than normal.

  7. As Yikes said with reward merits but i would say 1000 merits to boost you to level 30, that way then you can enjoy the game at a steady level and feel like you are contributing to the team or at the very least to yourself solo, this also raises an issue with how easy merits are to earn, but i will need to see whats achievable in a day.

  8. Level boosters, like a booster thats really rare in the packs but can drop say a level 10 booster or level 20 or level 30 booster, the higher the rarer, thay way then even if you are grinding in the game it wouldnt hurt to try your luck for yoyr next character.

These are just some ideas off the top of my head, they're not the best but its a start, i think there are some potential ideas there.

eager cedar
eager cedar
# safe obsidian Sorry, I think this idea would genuinely destroy the game.

Destroy the game? How so? Its not like there are alot of people playing it, and those that are seem to gate keep the server just for themselves when it could open up to have more people play on it if it wasnt so grindy, i absolutely not want to "destroy" the game or take it away from anyone, i simply just want to introduce fair ideas and suggestions in the hopes that i dont have to sit there for upwards of a few days possibly weeks to getting one single character up to 50 before i even ge to to the incarnates, thats asking way too much even for todays standard.

safe obsidian
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This game is absolutely not grindy, and anything that speeds up the time taken to get to 50 is just feeding into the wholely incorrect idea that CoX is about End Game. If you want speedy trips to 50 there are other servers that have increased xp rates and easy drops. I don't play on any of the servers and don't want to.

eager cedar
# safe obsidian This game is absolutely not grindy, and anything that speeds up the time taken t...

See everytime i hear "there are other servers.." is just another cop out way of saying just leave the server if you're not happy, again gate keeping, just because you dont play on any other servers doesnt mean there cant be a fair change here for people who dont want to sit there for days or weeks just to get one character to 50, especially when there are no teams available, soloing is considerably harder taking into account how often you can potentially die and travel all the way back.

At the end of the day, change needs to happen bit not at the expense of those who play here loyally, you might disgree with me, but there is a reason why only a handful of people play on here, because its not feasible to play for long periods of time just to achieve something they did back in 2004.

CoX isnt just about Endgame, but the latest update says different.

safe obsidian
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Sorry I don't recognise your experience in the slightest.
And in this case mentioning other servers is justified as this goes to the core of Rebirth's philosphy and approach to game change.

visual monolith
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"there is a reason why only a handful of people play on here" is true but it's not because leveling is too hard. In fact, leveling on this server is already subtly faster than it was on live.
the reason this server is smaller is because of a long history of inter-server politics and us not being the first server to go up after the leak. having the most players makes it really easy to maintain the most players, especially when you actively move your playerbase onto a launcher that doesn't permit loading other servers' manifests.

it's a twofold issue of sunk cost, and a negative feedback loop "I don't want to play on this server because not enough people are playing on this server"

safe obsidian
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Also: this is one of the few servers where the numbers are growing

visual monolith
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one thing I've noticed is that a fair amount of rebirth's new players are people who haven't played CoH before, or haven't played yet since the leak. they don't have any ties to any existing server, and rebirth seems to have the most draw to it. the content is polished and pretty well-tested, and there's a lot of it coming at a rate that's hard to compete with

#

that is all to say, your prescriptive judgments about why people might not want to play on this server feel silly

#

it's not gatekeeping to say "it would be a huge upset to change level progression in such extreme ways"

eager cedar
safe obsidian
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We also get a regular number of ex-HC people who come here claiming they found HC's rapid progression off putting.

eager cedar
safe obsidian
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Wgat distingusihes Rebirth from other servers this philosophy

visual monolith
eager cedar
eager cedar
safe obsidian
eager cedar
# safe obsidian No more anacedotal than your claim

Sure but it seems i have obviously touched a nerve with my suggestion, its just a suggestion , sure dislike it i dont care, im only interested in trying to improve the leveling curve of the game to be a bit more meaningful to casuals like myself

safe obsidian
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Well I don't mean to come off like an angry troll. Apologies if I did

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But this would go against the very reason I am here and not on HC or any other server

eager cedar
safe obsidian
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Just want to say that I'm not that prominent an Oro person. All I've done for them is some wiki work 😉

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Don't want to inflate my importance 😄

eager cedar
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But yeah, i dont want to take away the way the leveling works here, im not coming here to destroy or dismantle anything that the devs here built, im just simply suggesting ways that i could level a little bit quicker to enjoy endgame content as thats what i enjoy the most, i used to enjoy the grind when i was younger, but times have changed for me and probably others.

One thing that Yikes said earlier about inter politics of the other servers made me think, its the reason why i dont play on any other server than HC, but im not happy with their name change policy so coming here would be best for me to migrate all my characters over and start fresh, among other reasons that i dislike the other servers.

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What i may do this weekend is a level 50 challenge, see how far i can get

visual monolith
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no better time than now ;D

untold hamlet
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I want to reiterate that we might be looking at this wrong by focusing on a the band aid and not the core problem. A part of the problem as stated in the original post is "i log on and see very few people on to form a team." With more teaming options, the solo level grind becomes less of a problem. But you can't magically create new people. Can create new content which attracts some new people. Word-of-mouth and an occasional influencer video or post helps. But let's set that aside, what can we do?

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It seems like if there were better ways for heroes/villians/Praetorians to team, that could help. I am thinking cross color DFBs. Like everyone has to face the Rikti. The Summer BlockBuster is a good example of this. Meeting in a neutral area isn't that big a deal with free Pocket-D teleports. DFB/SBB are fun with good rewards. They can get a little same-y, but I think that's a good think. It helps break up the monotony of the grind, but doesn't replace it.

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As an aside, I basically soloed all my characters on Live. I was also exclusively a villain. I have less time to play now, but yet find leveling MUCH easier. Now that's not an apples to apples comparison, because soloing on a Live is not the same as teaming on Rebirth. But with Discord and an active community, finding a team isn't that big a problem for me. And I have taken advantage of many generous higher levels who do NOT mind you hanging around their missions/DA/firefarm what have you. That said, villains, before they can get to level 20 and become rogues, have it a lot tougher. And gold is even rougher. Alright, enough prattling from me.

visual monolith
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i dont think that cross-color stuff would actually help much, primarily because there are so few people who play red/goldside to begin with that it wouldn't really increase the pool for that sort of queued content

viscid pond
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@eager cedar PLers like myself are here on Rebirth, hit me up if you need to get an alt farmer to 50 and you can PL yourself 😉

eager cedar
eager cedar
eager cedar
viscid pond
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I think that's probably the issue here. Yes, the leveling process via missions and TF's can be rough, but it always was on Live. HC has spoilt people. Luckily, PL'ers are still here, just in the shadows.

eager cedar
viscid pond
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starting here can be a challenge, but i found once i had the ability to PL myself, it became alot easier to concentrate on what i like (farming, making builds, speed tf's, pvp, incarnate trials)

pseudo fog
eager cedar
frank fox
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Stepping in to go ahead and flat-out nix some ideas. I'm not here to intercede on the conversation, but I want to give a clear picture of ideas that we would entertain.

  1. Seperate servers, one called Rebirth Classic CoH and one just as Rebirth

Hard no. Splitting our community like that is out of the question and our funding goals do not allocate for an additional server.

  1. The "Golden Path" idea

I'm not sure which idea this is. Someone link me to the concept?

  1. A new set of contacts that are scattered through the various zones each unlocked after performing a certain amount of missions.

If you mean a series of contacts that offer missions with increased rewards, maybe. It is not ever going to be a priority though. If we are creating contacts and content, those are going to be focused on narrative expansion with little regard to experience earn rates.

  1. Boosting the reward and xp rate in heists

This becomes ridiculously easy to farm and radios are already farmed to death. While not exactly against it, we aren't going to actively promote or incentivize it.

  1. Create specfic dev approved level arcs in AE

We will not be actively promoting or incentivizing farms.

  1. TF's to be soloable and xp rates adjusted to be higher than normal.

TFs could be started solo early in Rebirth's life. This was reverted to minimums of 4 for most TFs and will not be reverted back. We actively promote teaming and community. Solo TFs run counter to that ideal.

  1. As Yikes said with reward merits but i would say 1000 merits to boost you to level 30,

I would not ever expect any kind of level-skip like this here.

  1. Level boosters, like a booster thats really rare in the packs but can drop say a level 10 booster

Droppable boosters that increase gains, possibly. Level-skipping boosters no. Purchasable boosters, no. If you make it readily available to people then it becomes "illogical" to level without it. That's not something we're willing to foster.

safe obsidian
eager cedar
# frank fox Stepping in to go ahead and flat-out nix some ideas. I'm not here to intercede o...

Ok duly noted.

On the idea of the Golden path from Elden Ring, basically there is no right way in Elden Ring to play, its an open world, however, there is a path that is dubbed the Golden Path in which you just follow the path that guides you to specific destinations and contacts, with Elden Ring its not as simple to keep track of contacts because its not based on the MMO perspective but more of an open world that you decide where to go and what to do.

The Golden Path idea is similar to it but more of make the some of the contacts the main contacts that you use to level up in, they would have higher rates of XP and Rewards.

With regards to my suggestions, i do appreciate your reply, though with more thought and effort they could be refined to be non intrusive to the general players of this server.

TF's to be soloable and xp rates adjusted to be higher than normal.

TFs could be started solo early in Rebirth's life. This was reverted to minimums of 4 for most TFs and will not be reverted back. We actively promote teaming and community. Solo TFs run counter to that ideal.

Yes but the problem with this is that there are hardly any players about, i could log in and now and maybe see or two about, write in LFG and probably get no answer like i did yesterday and instead people are using that channel to discuss other things.

It becomes tiresome to try and explain why no one plays here and why its damaging to be a pretty hardcore server in terms of unfun repetitive xp rates and rewards that you dont really see a big difference until you hit at least level 35, at which point you could farm the ITF and other TF's so long as you have a group available.

If there is going to be change and every suggestion is just shut down with a "No" then why have a suggestions and feedback channel?

Why bother at all trying to convince a server to make small non-intrusive efforts to engage with all players and not just those who exclusively play here?

pseudo fog
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Im guessing youre on EU times since here in Eastern time its almost 10am Central 9am Western time 6am most people are at work right now or getting ready to get to work

eager cedar
safe obsidian
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If a suggested change goes against the advertised philosophy the Rebirth devs have previously stated then a suggestion will be shot down.

eager cedar
safe obsidian
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I would look to other ways to achieve what you are after.

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But faster XP for a server that decribes it self as closest to the retail experince isn't going to happen

eager cedar
safe obsidian
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Not sure I agree there either. Most content added here has come from work left over by the original devs. Including Genesis, I believe

eager cedar
frank fox
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FWIW, when discussing population concerns, keep in mind that we are routinely the third or fourth largest shard amongst the entire COH multiverse.

eager cedar
pseudo fog
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Well Rebirth always had an organic growth and were seeing many new players every week. The goal was never to go and be number one and beat all other servers and thats fine. Every server has their own content focus, playerbase and rules.

mystic vector
# eager cedar fair enough ill keep my mouth shut then

I'm not sure you being quiet about this is what anyone is asking for/ suggesting -- and I'd also offer the perspective that while the answer "no" may be disappointing, the devs and community here are doing a lot to say "your suggestion isn't likely to happen, and here's why" and also "what might other solutions to the problem be?" which might not be developer solutions at all, but like, community organized "hey let's do some EU friendly non-50 events to help folks enjoy that content and level up." or just getting connected to a PLer and going that route. I haven't been here long but from watching/participating in the Discord, the devs and community listen and think about any and all suggestions, but that listening and consdiering seriously doesn't always mean the answer is going to be yes. Which is to say, "Why say you take suggestions?" Because that's what this looks like.

Oh, another good opportunity for xp is Saturday Mothership raids -- I think those are early enough that they're EU friendly?

golden mason
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Which brings up another community-oriented suggested for improving leveling speed - if you are willing to lead a team, try scheduling a mission/story-arc/task-force or whatever block of time using Event Herald, and see if that helps with getting any/larger team going.

eager cedar
eager cedar
jaunty apex
eager cedar
jaunty apex
golden mason
eager cedar
eager cedar
torpid spruceBOT
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Gave +1 Inf to @golden mason

tiny gust
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Ok I have read into the whole thing half-way or even a bit more. Here are some 2 cents from another "casual" player.

I used to play back on live but veeery seldom due to sharing the account of my boyfriend. He was playing a lot, so I couldn't play much and I couldn't afford it myself. Later on there were other reasons why I couldn't play. So all in all I lost my connection to CoX and missed the time when it was F2P. When I stumbled over it being F2P it had already shut down. So that's that. Based on this little tale I would count myself to "New Players" even though I played a bit during Live and I never forgot the game because I tried several other MMOs in my life - including WoW, Guild Wars and Lost Arc. None of them caught me like CoX used to. CoX has something other MMOs lacked and can't even nail it down. Finding out about the leak and that there are P-Servers was magic. So I watched a few Let's Play videos to see if those private servers were any good because I used to work in a team for a WoW P-Server and boy was that thing buggy and instable. After a few videos I joined the Rebirth Discord and asked questions to deduce, whether I should register to the server or try another. The way people welcomed me, how they talked about the game, explained their personal reason why they are here and how things were managed behind the scenes made me sign up for Rebirth and I don't regret it to this day. /storymode off

The level-experience in this game feel less grindy for me like the level-grind in WoW - especially including all that daily repeatable stuff at end-level to gain access to gear, items, dungeons/raids and whatnot. The sole level experience in WoW felt more grindy like it does in here. Sure, it's not fast - but I wouldn't call it slow as well. So for me the way it is is fine. I do like to take it slow BECAUSE I am a casual player. I do a lot of solo stuff to be flexible with the time I have. Yes it's hard with certain ATs and power combinations,

tiny gust
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but well - no pain - no gain. I wouldn't mind OPTIONAL ways of faster leveling. It can be fun for a change but yeah...optional - not global.

Rebirth belongs to a network of CoX-P-Servers who all have different goals, different opinions and different philosophies. That way each player has various possibilities to play in the style that is closest to their approach. We have a lot of players who play on Rebirth AND other servers depending on how they feel like. If they feel like crazy fast leveling and a lot of freebies the play on HC for example and if they feel like retro-CoX they play on Rebirth. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with pointing out the existence of other servers. In the end every server exist because the people there love CoX and want to give old and new players the chance of experiencing it (again). Not more, not less. Rebirth decided to be a home for retro-loving players and has a philosophy that serves this goal.

Making suggestions is a good thing. But if one makes suggestions, they have to brace themselves for the possibility, that people come who do not like the suggestion and vote it down or voice their critic. That ist a natural process. To you your suggestion might be flawless and valid in every way. But that is your opinion. You may have your opinion, but others may also have theirs and the way you opened this topic literally ASKED people to voice their opinion. Well - they did and you didn't take well to it. Whoever doesn't agree with you seems to be "gate-keeping" stuff, or be an "authority" or things like that. With phrases like those you come off as someone who isn't able to accept criticism.

Comparing CoX to WoW, SWTOR or other MMOs with tons of end-level content isn't a very favorable way of persisting on one's point of view. CoX is NOT WoW or another MMO. It as an OLD game, with old (spaghetti) code, an old engine and old graphics. A private server doesn't have the funds and the team size to make it a new modern game.

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So P-Servers tend to have a policy and philosophy that takes all these things into consideration and every suggestion is viewed with those aspects in mind. A lot of players here have been playing here since Day 1 or at least pretty soon after Rebirth came into being. They have experience with the way things are tackled here and thus can allow themselves to use this knowledge when replying to a suggestion. That does not mean they have authority over a committee or have fun bashing your suggestion - they just have another feeling for realism than you do. That is not to be taken personal.

As for having a hard time finding team mates: Well, I do have that a lot due to living in a different time zone. Most people are online while I am at work or asleep. And a lot of players here also have a life and real life should always come first. It's a small but tight knit community and I have never met friendlier and more generous players in any other popular MMO. If I can get team mates I get team mates - if not, well then I don't. I'm okay with soloing and if I can only solo I play a class that is solo-friendly. I do like my lore and to read quest texts and dialogues which is something that isn't really possible in team play because people want to play and not wait for me to read all the stuff.

eager cedar
# tiny gust but well - no pain - no gain. I wouldn't mind OPTIONAL ways of faster leveling. ...

pointing out other servers is free advertisement for those servers, the people complain on HC having higher population but are happy to tell people like to basically shove it when it comes to my suggestions and "go play on other servers", that logic alone makes no sense is just gate keeping.

I know my suggestion is not flawless, at face value it sounds a bit silly, but thats because i haven't had time to sit and explain it thoroughly, so im happy for criticism, what im not happy for is for people to tell me to bugger off and play on a different server if im not happy here.

I did take their opinions well, you only read part of it as you said, and chose to pick out parts and assume i didn't take the criticism well.

I have no idea why the sudden attack on me personally about my ability to accept criticism but that its not welcome in this context and is perceived to be a bit personal.

I will compare it to games like WoW, do you not think WoW is full of spaghetti code too? the game came out at roughly the same time (COH was first) and ever since they have been progressive in their venture to include everyone and cater to everyone's tastes, so yes WoW is a really good comparison actually, you just disagree, doesn't make your opinion any more better than mine.

pseudo fog
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WoW had continuous developementsince 2012 and continues to have some. CoH stop in November of 2012 you cant compare what all those other games have become when this game got shutdown a decade ago.

eager cedar
forest plank
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""go play on other servers", that logic alone makes no sense is just gate keeping."

Except it's not. People are trying to help. There are a number of different CoH servers with different goals, and people are trying to inform you that your suggestion runs contrary to this server's mission statement for the most part, and that you might have more fun on one of the servers that better aligns with your sensibilities.

Now we can argue whether or not they're doing so properly, or what-have-you, but accusing everyone who's trying to point this out of gatekeeping is not making a good impression, as multiple people have already told you.

Back to the topic at hand: I think the XP curve is generally fine, as a fellow new player. I did my first iTrials on this server, to give you an idea how baby I was to the game prior. Maybe the level 40-50 grind is a tad slow for my tastes sometimes, but people are generally receptive if you call you're running portal missions, and if I keep an eye on #in-game-lfg I can usually find a level 50 tip group or fire farm if I want it, and if I can't I've built rapport with enough people to usually be able to make a group when I want one.

CoH is far and away my favorite MMO, and I would not want the sensibilities that make me like other MMOs less to come here. As I learn more and more about the server, I realize how many systems they've made to accomodate us players. I could argue, because I had some onboarding issues as a new player, that things could be done to educate new players about what those things are, but if you play here long enough, unless you're me and make too many alts, you'll end up with more XP boosters than you can reasonably spend.

If your problem is finding groups, there are systems for that that have already been pointed out to you. If your problem is finding solo XP too low, the server hands you boosters. If that's not enough, then you legitimately might be happier on a server with sensibilities like yours.

tiny gust
# eager cedar pointing out other servers is free advertisement for those servers, the people c...

  1. Sure it's free advertisement but yeah - if people ain't happy and you can't give them what they want because it clashes with your philosophy then it's perfectly fine to let them go so they can enjoy the game the way they want on another server. If you ain't happy with your health care insurrance because they don't give you what you want you would go to another who has it. Just that your current one wouldn't send you there. Rebirth isn't all about money. Sure the administration would like to have more players but not at the cost of forcing them here and keeping them here at all cost.

  2. Well it's certainly not that people tell you to "bugger off".

  3. Yes I only read part of it like at least half of the topic thread before I started posting or even 3/4 of it and the tone of the conversation didn't change a lot. It got a bit less heated whenever El Bee was involved but all in all I started to grow tired about reading more or less same things in different fashion. In the parts I read (and FULLY read) you came across like someone who doesn't accept criticism well. That was not meant as an accusation (or personal) but I think I'm not the only one who thinks that way, hence why some replies to the conversation have been a bit sharp. It was my personal impression of the way you react in this conversation - not more, not less. Do with it what you want.

  4. I do not think CoH was first since my boyfriend already played WoW and switched to CoH when it was released. But I basically don't care what game was first. I second Gosu there. CoX was shutdown and leaked to a community that took different approaches on it. Not every server has the same number of devs and not every dev a project has is versed in everything. they don't get paid to work on the code and create new stuff, so things go slow and ain't as professional as the large Dev-community behind WoW. You just can't compare apples and oranges.

eager cedar
# forest plank ""go play on other servers", that logic alone makes no sense is just gate keepin...

"Except it's not"

Except it is, i have spoken to people fine here until you came in with your stupid idea to cross examine me like im some patient in psychology, you made that comment, not me, i have argued my position on my suggestion because im free to do so.

"accusing everyone who's trying to point this out of gatekeeping "

It is if people try to me passive aggressively to leave then yeah it is gate keeping, now lets move on.

Ok so COH is your favourite MMO, its mine too, hell its everyones favourite MMO otherwise we wouldnt be here.

Not even going to bother with the rest, i assume its to tell me there are other servers etc

forest plank
# eager cedar "Except it's not" Except it is, i have spoken to people fine here until you cam...

" to cross examine me like im some patient in psychology"

LOL! Point out where I did this and I'll apologize! I'll wait. 😄

I love how you didn't even read my whole post before responding.

I don't think you understand what gatekeeping means.

I'll ELI5 this for you: if I come into a game's discord and complain about its systems, and the people there tell me that's just how the game is, and it might not be for me, that's not gatekeeping. It's them informing me not to waste my time, and that it might be better spent on a game that I'd enjoy more. That's what's happening here. Hope that clears things up for you.

eager cedar
# tiny gust 1. Sure it's free advertisement but yeah - if people ain't happy and you can't g...

ok whatever, i dont really care at this point, its not productive and its just getting personal about me as a person and i cannot be bothered to keep this going on, you have your opinion and made it clear, i will refrain from speaking to you from here on out because as i said, its not productive, and the way you say about how others feel about me taking criticism just feels like some kind of gang up or something so im going to leave it there, had i realised that i would receive this much backlash for a suggestion i wouldnt have even bothered

eager cedar
tiny gust
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Uh I'm a "that other person" now... if one post suggestions they have to EXPECT backlash

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Well - at least this topic shows, that the subject of "Level Experience" is VERY sensible

eager cedar
tiny gust
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That people who have the courage to start a topic on it have to be pretty resilient to endure the onslaught...

eager cedar
tiny gust
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well not to be taken literally of course

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it was rather meant like some sort of metaphor. My bad...

eager cedar
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if you dont have anything insightful to add and just want to insult me, do it somewhere else, i made a suggestion FFS and all you have done is come here and insult me

tiny gust
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You asked - I replied...and I called you resilient...that is hardly an insult but yeah you may be right. So good luck with your suggestion 🙂

eager cedar
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well i cant tell what you were trying to imply because at one point you insult me and the next you just use phrases and analogies and its blurring to me to actually understand what is going, its not even on topic or productive at all

tiny gust
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Things haven'T really been on topic for quite a while because I think the topic is too sensible - hence why you had to endure all this stuff

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I'm sort of trying to make amends...not very good it seems. It's not one of my strong skills to be honest.

eager cedar
tiny gust
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I might not be good at wording them...possibly not being a native speaker plays into it...

eager cedar
tiny gust
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Well - at least things have calmed down a little. You may see it as gate-keeping but go and try out HC. If you like it, good for you, if not, try other servers. But that doesn't mean you may not come back and play here even if the leveling experience feels slow 🙂 We are an open network. The thing with P-Servers is that they can't put advertisement out into the net just like that. They have to mostly rely on word-of-mouth-advertising and maybe seldom twitch streamers who play on their servers.

eager cedar
tiny gust
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As I stated I played WoW, GW and Lost Ark....the communities of those games were all very power-focused and real support and help was seldom unless you had your own little community to play with. The Rebirth community gave me all I could have ever wished for in a game community. Help and support, good conversation and they were generous to a point I felt even bad for getting so many freebies and inf-presents while not being able to do anything in return.

unreal kestrel
# frank fox Stepping in to go ahead and flat-out nix some ideas. I'm not here to intercede o...

Hi folks, just going to step in and let yall know this was getting pretty rocky here for a bit. No need for any drama or arguments. We know you all feel very passionately about how XP is handled, but messing with players' XP gains is a fickle topic as some folks really love the grind, whereas others don't even like double XP weekends.
I'll link back to BRW's answer as he nailed it right on the head for some changes that were proposed for XP.

tiny gust
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I am allowed to play the way I want, there are no online-enforcements and people are pretty understanding if you can't play a lot due to real life, disabilities or other issues.

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This discussion did show that people can take things wrong or can maybe be sharp and uncomfortable but all in all I love the community here and I also did have harsh discussions. But one has to move on from there and also see the good stuff in people and if you don't get along with someone you don't have to deal with them. You'd just avoid them and they'd avoid you. And if a meeting is unavoidable you can still be polite and at least say stuff like "Hello" or "Thanks" or "Goodbye". I usually try to move in communities with the philosophy: "I don't have to marry anyone, but I try to get along with everyone best as possible"

cyan kelp
tiny gust
cyan kelp
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no worries, I followed. Turns out being able to read typo, can also have other applications 😉

tiny gust