#Blaster Secondaries are a bit slim...

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

quiet flame
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I was brainstorming a blaster build and I realized blasters don't have a lot of options on their secondaries.

So I thought I'd pitch a few wild ideas to fill that. All ideas are selected based on there's a control and melee powerset in existance that you could possibly cherry pick stuff from if you ever decide to get saucy and make blaster secondaries.

Though mostly this is thow stuff at wall and see what sticks.

Kinetic Manipulation: Kinetic Melee attacks + gravity control's controls
Earth Manipulation: Earth Melee meets earth control
Luminous Manipulation: Might be a bit tricky but luminous assault melee + some illusion control... though I am second guessing this since illusion control is a bit of an oddball with no root but perhaps a version of illusory wounds that is melee..... maybe overthinking
Plant Manipulation: Spine melee (using the planty-spines as the default skin) + plant control

white panther
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You may want to roll a guardian or two

quiet flame
sweet heron
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Pretty much agree, would like to see more blaster secondaries like a Plant Manipulation (or Nature Manipulation) which would combine Thorny Assault with Plant Control (could also be a bit of Nature Affinity thrown in there too) or Radiation Manipulation which would combine Rad Melee with Rad Emissions (if you can add a couple of Rad powers too, that would be great)
EDIT: Also, I think Trick arrow could make for a pretty easy proliferation to blaster secondary.

brisk bloom
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Doesn't sound like a bad idea on paper. I mean we already have a ton of those on Homecoming. Rebirth should give it a go.

coral orbit
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The HC Blaster secondaries would need an in-depth, comprehensive review to ensure compatibility with our version of the game itself and balance considerations.

brisk bloom
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Yeah. Balancing it out could be difficult.

quiet flame
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HC secondaries do weird shit like toggles with no end cost (wtf?!)

brisk bloom
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Most of them do.

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Ninja Training doesn't have a toggle that doesn't spend endurance.

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Kuji-In Toh I believe.

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Now that I think about, if you don't want a game-breaking toggle that boosts recovery on a whim, I have a list for the secondaries that might tickle your fancy:
-Darkness Manipulation
-Energy Manipulation
-Mental Manipulation
-Ninja Training

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Electricity Manipulation is unchanged on Rebirth, but in HC, they decided to give that powerset a toggle as well.

restive scroll
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to be fair, the 'free toggles' thing in blaster secondaries wasn't something HC started

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the issue 24 changes to blasters that were on beta when the original shutdown happened included the 'sustain' change to give them more recovery and health sustain

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and when those effects were put into a toggle, that toggle was made free in the process

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and it makes sense, there's not much point in having a toggle whose purpose is mostly to give you extra sustain but then make that toggle partly cancel itself out

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that isn't to say that the HC blaster secondaries aren't problematic in other ways, just not that one

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expanding blaster secondaries is a thing that would be nice to do at some point, but it will have to be done carefully

brisk bloom
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Yeah. It's not HC's fault that those toggles are a thing. Technically that is.

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And expanding those secondaries would be nice, but it need to be balanced out and must be compatible with Rebirth's design like brw316 said earlier.

gilded flame
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But then again Rebirth is not HC and most likely does not want to become a HC rip-off...just sayin...though it sure sort of would be nice to have more options on Blasters. I also was thinking to create one but I didn't do so because of the lack of self-sustaining ability.

restive scroll
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if we do make more blaster secondaries they'll be new to us rather than just following along with HC

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it's likely that there'd be at least a few similarities if we both tackle the same themes, but just more out of 'there's only so many ways to do this' than anything intentional

white panther
shy hamlet
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Call me crazy (many do!) but I think a toggle with no end cost should just be a passive. Like, if Blasters can choose some secondary sets that grand more explode, or some support, or some control, then adding a couple packs to the list that come with more sustain in the form of abilities with names like Radiotheremal Generator (+end recovery passive in a Radiation-type secondary), or Solar Powered (energy, light, or fire based set) or Supportive Bats (hypothetical powerset called So Goth I Fart Bats), then that makes sense to me.

white panther
shy hamlet
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Agree!

restive scroll
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in some cases the blaster sustains could have been passives, but since they were all converted from existing powers that were mostly toggles they stayed that way

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changing an existing power from a toggle into a passive is something neither we nor the old devs would usually do

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also there is precedent for free-end-cost toggles; stalker hide is one, along with things like stance/mode selection toggles in sets like dual pistols, staff, bio armor, etc

shy hamlet
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I'd argue that a stalker's Hide is part of an active effort to sneak up on someone and begin combat, and the toggles in bio-armoire being like three different settings and in the case of at least one carrying a penalty, while in the case of a no-downside Blaster power there's really no reason to ever turn it off, so why have it require that it be actively turned on?

coral orbit
# shy hamlet I'd argue that a stalker's Hide is part of an active effort to sneak up on someo...

Because of the way that powers are coded and the headache that would be caused by transitioning from a toggle to an auto. Literally every build that has one of those toggles would have to be reworked because of changes to accepted enhancement types. Not everyone uses sets, so if a player had an EndRedux slotted in the power and we removed EndRedux as a valid enhancement type--which we would because autos do not accept EndRedux as a rule (they have no cost)--every build would now be invalid. I'm not sure what that would do to the power that you have slotted and I don't know if anyone willing to find out. It's easier and safer to implement the change with the lowest impact to avoid unknown issues.

shy hamlet
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Reasonable! Wait, do powers with no end cost accept endredux?

coral orbit
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The sustain toggles, yes.

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Hide does not, but it was never had a cost, iirc.

shy hamlet
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Then, if I still wished to go ahead with the move in the name of ease-of-use, I'd probably leave EndRedux as a valid 'mint type for those powers, but stick a little note, in a bit of brightly-coloured warning text in the power destripctions that said something like "Do not slot EndRedux here, it doesn't help". Just to avoid breaking builds. Maybe do this on a temporary basis, like leave it for a year or whatever.

coral orbit
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That is only helpful for those that play within that next year. Players that take an extended break before the change and don't come back until after the change is set in stone then return to a build that could likely be broken.

Besides, the toggles all have enemy-affecting components--be they damage or debuff. An auto would necessitate these components be removed as you are no longer giving the player a choice on activation. For foe-targeting powers, that is a no-no.