In order to upload/update my map to the workshop, should i fully compile it?

[humble crater]

I dont know if compiling it "Fast" will ruin the map, or its ability to be uploaded to the workshop, will the lighting be terrible? Is it just a setting in the editor, and not actual changes to the map that will be applied to it, right? I would love some clarification about it.

the "Normal" settings take WAAYY too long, but i fear that running them on "Fast" will make the map look terrible.

[wary cypress]

It's not reccomended. It can break some things and ruin your lighting. If it runs too slowly on normal it is likely due to a lack of optimization. do you use func_detail in your map?

[humble crater]

pretty sure i dont

i only use brushes

i mean it is a VERY big map

huge space and air space

[humble crater]

what exactly do func_details do?

[wary cypress]

that would be your problem

Here's the really short version of what you need to know, and I preface this by stating that if you are making a big map you HAVE to know how optimization works more than what I'm about to tell you

[wary cypress]

Hammer chunks the world into these little tiny areas called leaves. Those leaves are then placed into clusters. When the game calculates what you can and can't see, so the entire map isn't always visible, it does not do this in real time. That's why it takes so long to compile. Each cluster is calculating what other clusters it can see. So let's say you're standing in cluster #7. Well Cluster #7 knows that it can see clusters #8, 9, 10, and 13. So, if you stand anywhere in cluster #7, those other clusters are visible. Following so far?

[humble crater]

basically just chunks, that makes sure that from the first chunk u can see the other, and so on?

[humble crater]

yeah i get it, my map IS really open, so im sure there is alot of clusters.

[wary cypress]

Exactly, sorry for the delay. So the base geometry blocks line of sight for these chunks. It also creates "slices" that make new leaves as the game tries to guess where walls start and end. In short, more world geometry, more leaves. More leaves, more compile math

what func_detail does, is that it does NOT block line of sight. As far as the game is concerned, you can see right through it. This means too that it does not create these slices. It's also just good for FPS

so anything that doesn't block line of sight to important areas should be made func_detail with ctrl T

I opted to give you the real explanation instead of a half assed "anything that looks complicated should be detail" because it is super helpful in understanding what should and should not be detail

you can view these leaves in game with mat_leafvis 3, or in hammer by going to map -> load portal file (only works after a compile)

[humble crater]

hold on, i think i know exactly what u are talking about.

so basically, i have this huge underground area.

takes up alot of time to compile

it has nothing important, it just a REALLY big room with some tall walls that shape into a mze

maze*

i think i should make those walls a func_detail, because there is nothing important there, such as look triggers, secrets, etc.

but one question, do i need to block everything off in a brush? Or can i leave the func_detail going into the void.

[wary cypress]

Yes!

[wary cypress]

That’s fine

It doesn’t need to be in bounds, but it also doesn’t seal the map

So if you made the floor detail it would leak

I recommend disabling the detail vis group when looking for leaks

[humble crater]

ok thats my qeustion.

[humble crater]

the what now?

oh nvm

i get it

the groups on the right side of hammer

alright @wary cypress u helped me alot!

thank you so much

[wary cypress]

No problem!

If you want to learn more about optimization let me know, I’ve got some great materials on hand with good pictures for clarification

[humble crater]

i just realised that my maze was already equiped with func_details, unless its a thing that automatically applies upon hitting ctrl+t

[wary cypress]

It’s the default for ctrl T

[humble crater]

i see.

yeah i can see it kinda speed up in the compiler

its not that much but visibly noticeable

which im glad for

[wary cypress]

En mass it makes a huge difference

[humble crater]

en mass?

[wary cypress]

On mass

[humble crater]

yuh uh

[wary cypress]

You should have a lot of the stuff

[humble crater]

also, should i make a building's walls also a func_detail?

[wary cypress]

It depends but usually no

They block line of sight

Can you send me an overhead picture of your map? I’d like to best give advice

[humble crater]

i mean by my understanding.

[wary cypress]

Because it’s super situational

[humble crater]

blocks off a big flat area

also yes a big top down view coming in

[wary cypress]

Ah I see

Do you plan on just experimenting or do you want this to be a full on propper map by the time you’re done

[humble crater]

i want this to be a map for me and my friends

you know i just dont find the things that i need in maps nowadays

[humble crater]

i would also say im technically experimenting because im learning how to build better.

[wary cypress]

For now throw some big func_visclusters with the trigger texture

It’ll hurt fps but increase compile time

Good for testing and final version only if you know what you’re doing

[humble crater]

so im basically manually putting down those clusters?

i mean why not

oh my god its so much faster, im gonna check how it looks in game

i found my first problem

dark doors

i think that might be because i switched to a lighting style

i dont think thats good.

yeah i did something wrong

all shadows turned blue, and most props have turned dark

i think i have done this

somehow

i have a clue hold on

wait no its inside the trigger

i think that might be the light

let me replace it with a normal, non tempered one.

[wary cypress]

A viscluster does not affect lighting

just rendering. You'll notice your entire map is always rendered which, again is terrible for performance, but for your purposes is fine

make sure you disabled fast lighting

[humble crater]

i changed some minor things about the map and its back to normal

this is weird

[humble crater]

its set on normal

[worldly bolt]

while you're testing the map yourself, you can compile it with whatever settings you want, and when you're ready to upload it to the Workshop, you should compile it fully

[wary cypress]

yes but if he's seeing lighting issues it's good to check if that is the problem or not

[humble crater]

i have used "fast" while just testing the map, i just didn't know if u needed to fully compile the map in order to upload it.

[wary cypress]

you don't need to but I reccomend it

it doesn't affect compile time a ton in my experience

[humble crater]

ok good news

the blue shadows are gone

now i have the problem of dark doors.

its in one building specifically

i also have some dark props in that one building aswell

i think i should place down some outdoor lights?

oh also one of my computer props are also dark but i have a creative fix

ill parent a light spot to it or something

[worldly bolt]

so? wasn't the question in the post about whether it was necessary to compile the entire map before posting it to the workshop? if so then answer is obviously yes

[humble crater]

yes, @wary cypress has told me that its better to fullly compile the map.

we are now trying to fix the problem where the map takes 20 years to compile on normal settings

which i think its bassicaly solved with some side problems

[worldly bolt]

i see

[humble crater]

oh wait i cant parent lights

sad

oh wait there is one

nevermind it doesn't actually light anything up

[wary cypress]

are you trying for a moving light or an on off light @humble crater

[humble crater]

moving light

i move prop, light goes with prop

but i didn;t find a way so i just put another light where the unlit area was

attempt number 2

[wary cypress]

I don't think that's possible in source. A sprite is your best bet

[humble crater]

i tried a sprite and it looked terrible and didn't light anything up

[wary cypress]

closest you get is a light dynamic that dynamically casts shadows as things move

[humble crater]

meh

i already fixed it

[wary cypress]

but as far as I know it can't be moved? dont quote me on that

[humble crater]

i tried i didn;t find anything that worked

so

yeah

[wary cypress]

lighting is pre-calculated on compile

[humble crater]

true

[wary cypress]

honestly I have no idea what black magic Garry used to make the light tool in game

I should look into that

[humble crater]

weird

still unlit

this is the old one

wait

the light is not bright enough

i see

attempt number 3

meh

i call it a good enough

the other one is normal for some reason.

hopefully no one notices

i mean i have one more FINAL issue

normal glass breaking: slim

office glass breaking: fat and stretched out

and has a noticeable repeating texture to it

other than that i will start to gladly generate a nav for my map

alr nav is generated

example npc is walking around

oh god damn it

the bunker has no nav mesh

it is a tiny space however so i dont mind

alr im done

ill be uploading now

thank you so much @wary cypress

u were REALLY helpfull

[wary cypress]

No problem!

happy to help

if you need further assistance you can always reach out to me or any helper in the hammer discord