Hi, in my app we want to prevent users who have deleted their account from creating a new one. Other than keeping their phone number/email in the database (which is problematic from a privacy point of view...) and comparing every new user, is there a better way to do this?
Thank you🙏
#[SOLVED] how to prevent deleted accounts from creating a new account
quiet lion
fathom parrot
Can you define "account" in this context?
quiet lion
Good question 🙂 Users need to create an account in the app. Apple requires that they have an in-app option to delete their account. The app is for research and their non identifiable data is retained even if htey delete the account, so ideally it's just a matter of their identifiable data, which is hte phone number used for authentication.
However, if we need to save the phone number anyway in order to prevent them from creating a new account, that's self defeating.
In our app we pay people to participate in scientific research. We don't want people to participate, delete their account, and participate again (receiving payment twice)
wide briar
there are 2 ways for this -
- Block the user instead of deleting which auto disables access to resources when correct permissions are set.
- Create a separate collection and keep a list of numbers as document ids, on sign-up, cross check if the user existed earlier.
fathom parrot
I think that may fall under the category where you are allowed to save certain data to identify the user in order to prevent abuse. You have to explictily state that tho. In general I would never delete an account in appwrite for security reason. Just override the email and password or delete that so they can't log back in.
I think you could potentially save the id of the transaction who recieved that
Because financial transaction have to be saved for a longer time anyways you can check if a certain user has received payment already
quiet lion
there are 2 ways for this -
1. Block the user instead of deleting which auto dis...
Thank you!
- What does blocking the user mean? How do I do this? What permissions need to be set?
- separate collection = different database or different table in the same database? if I keep the phone numbers in this database won't that defeat the purpose of not retaining identifiable data?
quiet lion
I think that may fall under the category where you are allowed to save certain d...
Thank you @fathom parrot ! Delete what so they can't log back in? We have only SMS authentication.
Our payment is done via a 3rd party called GoGift, they do this using emails (we don't keep the emails). It is very easy to create another email account and get paid twice...
fathom parrot
Block the user by using the endpoint above and then erase the "phone" value from the "user" object.
wide briar
Thank you!
1. What does blocking the user mean? How do I do this? What permissio...
- Block/Disable user from console or via API [link shared by Joshi].
- Sure, hash them [credentials] instead so its not plain text. compare on sign-up maybe.
In order to prevent users from creating new accounts using same credentials, you'll need to keep that info, one way or the other.
fathom parrot
I think the second option may still violate the GDPR law. GDPR is really tricky
Where are you from @quiet lion ? Are you considering serving EU citizens?
wide briar
I think the second option may still violate the GDPR law. GDPR is really tricky
possibly. but then in a way, its not traceable to a user, nor identifiable.
fathom parrot
possibly. but then in a way, its not traceable to a user, nor identifiable.
It kinda is under GDPR law. Even if you hash the personal data it is pseudo personal information and that itself is not allowed to be saved
"If the user ID is unique, then the hashed user ID will be unique as well. Thus, the hashed ID will enable “singling out”, and would still count as identifying in the sense of the GDPR."
quiet lion
Where are you from <@1062295582309351424> ? Are you considering serving EU citiz...
Yes, the app has to be GDPR compliant. However, we do have the participant's agreement to save their identifiable data for the length of the experiment, about 5 years, at which point we will delete all the phone numbers.
fathom parrot
If we can identify the user this way then it is still a breach lmao
quiet lion
The hashing is an interesting option, I think it makes a difference if we can access their actual phone number or not, I will check
fathom parrot
You are allowed to save their phone number?
Why do you not try to track the user via that way?
I think best option is still to prevent users based on their payment details
It's not like they can open back accounts or so
Uber EATS does it that way
quiet lion
If we can identify the user this way then it is still a breach lmao
Then I can block users instead, that is a great idea. I don't know if Apple has specific criteria for "delete account", and I doubt that they care that much if it's a blocked account or a deleted account, as long as the data is deleted at some point
fathom parrot
You can delete the personal data yes, but do not delete the account
The reason is that the permissions in documents and files and whatever are still intact
A new user with the same userId can potentially abuse that
Just override all personal data and block the account
quiet lion
Why do you not try to track the user via that way?
As you asked before, what does "account deletion" mean? I assumed it meant to remove the phone number, but this seems to be unfeasible.
We don't have payment details, this is done via go gift, they send an email with gift card options according to their country of residence. I can ask them regarding the actual payment details, that is also a great idea. However, they are paid at the end of the experiment (10 days). If they participate for 10 days and only then we will know if they already participated, that makes things complicated
fathom parrot
lmao even better
quiet lion
You can delete the personal data yes, but do not delete the account
The account is based on the phone number. How to delete personal data without deleting hte account in this case?
fathom parrot
let them waste 10 days and then you do the validation check at the end
if they are invalid they can eat a bag of d*cks
wide briar
let them waste 10 days and then you do the validation check at the end
i like this. but needs to be stated in the agreement beforehand 🤣
fathom parrot
The account is based on the phone number. How to delete personal data without de...
set phone to ""
quiet lion
https://appwrite.io/docs/references/cloud/server-nodejs/users#updatePhone
awesome! yes, this looks like it solves the problem. If a user tries with the original phoneNumber, it won't create a new account?
fathom parrot
I'm surprised that the endpoint asks for a phone number (aka required)
It should be theoretically be possible to set it to null
fathom parrot
awesome! yes, this looks like it solves the problem. If a user tries with the or...
Uh, yes it does.
Just save the phone number for at least 90 days after "official deletion"
quiet lion
Uh, yes it does.
Then how does that prevent a user with a deleted account from creating a new one...?
quiet lion
Just save the phone number for at least 90 days after "official deletion"
That sounds great 🙂
fathom parrot
You are allowed to postphone the deletion if you have valid reason
You have to state it to the user that it is to prevent potentiall abuse
You have to acknowledge their deletion request within 30 days and I think you can delay it for several months. At least 3months I think
quiet lion
You have to acknowledge their deletion request within 30 days and I think you ca...
Thank you, I will check
fathom parrot
When a user request their account to be deleted create a document in the collection"Mark for deletion" set the userId and deletionDate
Block their user account but do not delete their phone number for now
When you officially want to "delete" their account. You do erase any data the user ever had and delete their phone number but you should still not delete the account from appwrite
quiet lion
Excellent, thank you 🙏
fathom parrot
I do it this way so it should work
Just asked ChatGPT and it seems to be right. "Under GDPR, you should delete user data "without undue delay" after receiving a valid deletion request. Generally, this is interpreted as within one month, though you can extend this to three months for complex cases if you inform the user. "
quiet lion
When you officially want to "delete" their account. You do erase any data the us...
Why not delete the account?
fathom parrot
Why not delete the account?
Is there really a reason to do so?
That account does not contain any personal information anymore
Look at discord
When a user deletes their account they are called something like "user_deleted_<randomId>"
They just override it
spring kindle
If you delete the account the account will be able to sign-up at any point since the account has been deleted and not blocked
fathom parrot
If you delete the account the account will be able to sign-up at any point since...
It is more about the userId
spring kindle
Blocking the account supposes saving account data
fathom parrot
Since we will override the data of the user
quiet lion
If you delete the account the account will be able to sign-up at any point since...
But this is true also if I replace the phone number, correct?
fathom parrot
Your permissions and all your documents where you set the userId will not magically disappear
spring kindle
But this is true also if I replace the phone number, correct?
Wdym?
fathom parrot
They are still there associated with that specific userId
So if you delete user "XYZ"
spring kindle
Your permissions and all your documents where you set the userId will not magica...
You need to delete all the associated data of course according to GDPR
fathom parrot
and then a user is created with the id "XYZ" it inherrits it from the previous user
spring kindle
You need to delete all the associated data of course according to GDPR
If the user wants
fathom parrot
The account is not traceable back to that user
That itself is sufficient
I work with a GDPR agency so I know that
quiet lion
Wdym?
I understood above that if I change the phone number in an account, the user can create a new account with the original phone number yes? The same as if I delete the account. But not if I block the account. Yes?
fathom parrot
I understood above that if I change the phone number in an account, the user can...
Yes that's correct
How else would the system know?
Even if the system would hash it that would not circumvent GDPR
quiet lion
The account is not traceable back to that user
How to make the account not traceable to the user and prevent them from creating a new account? Is that even possible?
fathom parrot
You have to keep the phone number in the account for as long as needed. If you delete it within 3 months you are on the safer side
fathom parrot
How to make the account not traceable to the user and prevent them from creating...
No
You can make use of deviceId blabla but that shit sucks ass and for some other technique u probably do not have the money for
Just keep the phone number my dude
And keep the transaction data
"We need to store the phone number for a prolonged amount of time to prevent potential abuse (2months) and after that all data will be erased that may identify the user (1month)" Ofc better worded
You can say for the latter part that it needs around 1 month before it is erased from all your system
Because of backup and stuff like that
GDPR requires you to save only enough data in order to fulfill your task
So delete their data like name or whatever and just keep their phone number
Basically any data that does not help you preventing abuse has to be deleted
in this case phone number seems to be enough
quiet lion
in this case phone number seems to be enough
awesome, thank you very much!
fathom parrot
That should only apply to users who has received a payment
That is not valid for users who have only registered
In their case you can do the procedure immediately
quiet lion
That should only apply to users who has received a payment
correct, good point 👍
Thank you all for your help!
[SOLVED] how to prevent deleted accounts from creating a new account