#A Sense of Smell.

43 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

brittle apex
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The smell of pipe tobacco is strong at the murder scene but neither the victim or their co-habitant are smokers...
The stink of Fathom water comes from the size 7 foot prints around the corpse...
The smell of cordite, and the victim's perfume, wafts from the suspect's clothing as they stand nervously in the doorway...
A faint scent of cheeseburger and whiskey on the lips of the victim, they had recently dined, perhaps from the tavern down on the corner...

orchid glade
# brittle apex The smell of pipe tobacco is strong at the murder scene but neither the victim o...

This would be an annoying feature, not only to add, but also to use. Would your nose only be active in crime scenes? With a keybind? Of course we can't actually smell, so we'd have to have text showing us what we "smell", only adding to the visual stimuli and more crowding of the screen. And with all the confusing smells that the world has to offer, I'd just ignore this feature because using the killer's fingerprints is so much easier.

brittle apex
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so your sense of smell can't locate or differentiate certain smells apart from other smells? interesting.

orchid glade
paper geode
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I like the feature. I don't understand what the other guy's point is. It's not about offering an easier solution, it's to immerse the player and offer multiple ways of solving a case.

A keybind is not a bad idea though. Press the "?" key and a text box pops-up on the screen.
"You can't smell anything particularly interesting."
When there's nothing to note.

Different intensities of smell?

"The room reeks of whiskey."
"An aroma of whiskey fills the air."
"You smell something that vaguely reminds you of whiskey.''

I'm not a good writer, but I think you can catch what I mean. Maybe you can pin it to the board and then link it to it's source.

It's a difficult gameplay feature to implement, but I think it would do wonders for world-building.

brittle apex
orchid glade
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Current goal is retirement. Why should they add multiple new ways to solve cases if there's still the one easy way? If you had fingerprints, foot prints, calling card.. you'd ignore that and choose to follow the murderer to where they last had a drink? It's pointless, it's not fun, it's not even very useful.

orchid glade
orchid glade
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And I'm sorry if how I said things were negative, I don't mean to shut you down or try and insult your idea, I just think a sense of smell is pretty unimportant in a detective game.

paper geode
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That's your way of playing though. Most people who play this game are not taking the easiest, quickest solution to problems so they can reach retirement quicker. And you're talking like if every update, past and future, are going to be only about adding skin-deep mechanics with little to add to the over-arching game like Minecraft is doing.

Maybe once the game is further along it's lifespan and more features have been added and the game is now harder, there will be a crime scene with no fingerprints, footprints, calling card. But you can smell alcohol reeking in the apartments carpet, indicating that either the victim is an avid drinker or the killer dumped some while on the scene. You go to the nearest bar and talk to one of the workers and they say that yeah, the guy does come around often and is usually a hassle to deal with. Last time he was here, he was very tense and babbling drunkenly about some money he owes to John Doe. You go to John Doe's house, find an e-mail from somebody else saying- "I need the money John. I need it now. I don't care how you do it. Just get it." and a gun with the same caliber of ammo that the victim had been shot with. You just solved the case. All that from just a scent.

brittle apex
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Thanks for the input @orchid glade but your point about fingerprints being the main thing to follow is what dulls down the game for me, and I suspect, for others as well. It becomes a situation of: find all prints at the scene, get victim's address book, pin all names to board, go to overseer's office, look up all pinned names, and winner, winner, chicken dinner, our culprit's name is X. McSthespot. Also, when I discovered the overseers crunchers had everyone's fingerprints on file, well, it was tedious and time consuming, but I took screen shots of the city directory and started looking up everyone. It took several sessions but after a while I pretty much had everyone's print on file. I can now wander into the convenience stores bathroom and know who's used it. It also doesn't help that no one in the city has guests over, or throws parties so the murder scene isn't completely covered with dozens of prints, unlike a convenience store bathroom. Considering that one of the first objects I picked up was a bottle of cleaning spray (ammonia smell) I wondered why such a thing wasn't being used by killers to cover their tracks, forcing us to use other methods. I've read much noir detective literature, Raymond Chandler and Elmore Leonard particularly, and I regularly watch the entirety of Columbo, and it's never a matter of clearly discernable prints, a calling card, security camera footage, and slap on the cuffs. They use their senses at the crime scene to get clues, they smell the room, the smell the victim to get an idea of what to do next.

orchid glade
# paper geode That's **your** way of playing though. Most people who play this game are not ta...

I actually made an entire suggestion labeled "Intelligent Murderers" that suggests that about 99% of murderers do not leave a calling card, and have a basic knowledge of forensics so they know not to leave the murder weapon behind and to wear gloves to prevent fingerprints. I said myself that the game is dull in other channels, and I agree with pretty much everything you've said.

It's dull to solve a crime with just a fingerprint, but not with smell? I think that's completely backwards. You're not asking for a smell feature, you're asking for an entire smell system + complete dialogue revamp + procedural murder overhaul + updated email systems.

If a killer IS NOT killing at random (which doesn't exist in Shadows of Doubt, they always have a personal reason) then you're literally guaranteed to find them, even if it's after 10 murders. You pick up the pattern. My way of playing is following the obvious clues left behind. You're telling me that you'd neglect fingerprints and go to follow the smell of whiskey? If not, and if you are saying that there should be no fingerprints and only speculation, then you are proving my point of you asking for WAY MORE than a "smell system".

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If you go into any of the suggestions I've replied to, I come at it from a game developers prospective. I give some creativity, but also mention how you don't just "add features".

paper geode
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It's not a suggestion box for features to add now. They can be added further down the line when other systems are more developed. I never argued that a smell system is an absolute priority, I understand it's just to add more flavor to the world.

orchid glade
paper geode
orchid glade
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It's "filler features". "Fluff". I'm not opposed to a smell feature, especially if I can just not use it, but there's a lot of other issues that should be focused on before a smell feature is even considered.

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Which goes hand in hand with what you said about it being done down the line.

orchid glade
paper geode
orchid glade
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It's a fact that the game doesn't have much content. I improvise by doing some kind of "Joe Goldberg" thing where I hide items in the vents in my house. I also keep trophies from the various murders (the killers glasses, murder weapons, murder ciphers, etc). and type the story of how I solved the crime in a case file that's dedicated to documenting what's in the display case.

orchid glade
brittle apex
brittle apex
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Also, the suggestion part of the forums does not need a 'devs perspective' from anyone. Participants who put on the pseudo-developers hat and sheriffs badge have a tendency to think they can run the thread straight into a cell, because they think they have authority to assume the developer's identity and have decided they have the right to stop another's idea because they don't have the imagination required to grasp it. Example, you say you have no sense of smell and therefore you have no idea of how the rest of us rely on it to figure out things in real life, such as why can we smell things that are out of place (like a gas leak), and because you lack one of the senses, you therfore haven't the imagination required to grasp the idea i was putting across. You are not one of the devs, you do not have the right or authority to stop another's ideas. Your perspective was not asked for, and your negativity is not required or desirable, nor should you be complimented for it. This is the suggestion-box: it is where ideas come to thrive, not to be killed-off by authoritarian psuedo-devs looking to exert non-existent power over people who have ideas and wish to share them. If the idea is bad, let it will die out from a lack of engagement, not because one person 'doesn't get it' and bullies until they get their way, which is: kill the idea at all costs. When I look at other's suggestions I either add to it if I agree, or leave it for others if I don't because I haven't the right to stop them, nor is it my job as I am not one of the devs, or employed by them with the task of vetting ideas, and neither, I suspect, are you. If someone has nothing to contribute then they should contribute exactly that, and let the rest of us have our fun.

orchid glade
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"I ain't readin allat" or TL;DR- you've blatantly lied and assumed ridiculous things, and revealed multiple stages of hypocrisy.

Notice how the person who thought your suggestion was good still reached a complete understanding with me, and only you freak out about it because you're actually butthurt over my opinion.

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I stated my opinion and mentioned that a "smell feature" is not important or necessary enough to warrant development at this time. That is, again, my opinion. I also mentioned how my past of game development leads my opinion with experience of the difficulty of implementing features, and also that you are likely not just asking for a "smell feature" but much much more. That is all.

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All my mention of "experience" (only once, and then twice to explain it) was only to take into consideration the hard work of the game developers and giving them recognition for it.

brittle apex
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to quote you: "i come at it with a game developers prospective"...and in the first sentence of my comment I said 'dev's perspective'. if you do not have a sense of smell, you cannot imagine what it is to have a sense of smell, and so you don't have the required imagination to grasp the concept, but you are a "better qualifier" because you can't smell? I guess we can all start asking the blind for their opinions of the latest developments in graphics cards as they must be similarly better qualified. Your very first contribution was about how 'annoying' the feature would be, and later you reveal you have no sense of smell...but still, rather than ask for the idea to be expanded on, you take a negative - not realistic - view and start to say why it wont work - for you. You did not build on my idea, you did not seek clarification of it, you began to shut it down: "it's pointless, it's not fun, it's not even very useful." were your comments later on...and you never tried to stop the idea and you're not negative. Please. I think what your first sentence should read: "Two sentences in an I was triggered."

orchid glade
brittle apex
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When I wrote "the smell of pipe tobacco..." you read that, correct? There was no smell of tobacco emanating from your pc. You read the words and the words had the power to engage the readers imagination. It was you, and only you, who decided the sensation had to be something more than written, not me, nor any of the others who have read this suggestion and given a thumbs-up. The written description was enough for them. You're the only one who didn't get it. Examined a corpse yet? I bet you have. Found a bullet hole yet? Of course you have. Did you find it by feeling for it with your hands, watching them go through the corpses belongings, turning out the pockets, removing the clothing to find the wound? Or did the result of your search get printed on a card that you could pin to the board? You never felt the fabric of their clothes or the feel of their still-warm bodies did you? How else can you tell the approximate time of death - another bit of info printed on a card - except by feeling the temperature of the victim? Our detectives don't carry thermometers, so how do we know? The game tells us, and we accept it. No, we can't actually smell in the game, and if the hero of a novel smells roses and describes the scent, we accept it, even though we cannot experience it. Have you ever read "Perfume", by Patrick Suskind? It contains some of the most evocative descriptions of scents, but if you smell the book you will only smell a book. No, we cannot smell in the virtual world, yet we accept what we are told when it is printed on a card that can be pinned to a board. "You smell whisky on their lips" reads a card, that gets pinned to the board. Finally, have you ever been "Stinky" in the game? Smell is already in the game.

orchid glade
# brittle apex When I wrote "the smell of pipe tobacco..." you read that, correct? There was no...

You are such a fool it's insane. Yes I used my PC to "search" an NPC, but my hands are not touching the NPC, it's not real, it's a video game, similarly, your idea to create a system that produces smells from your computer is a biohazard. Your entire thing is basically "Hey, you're right" in a really long, dragged out way by giving me 14 examples.

You also just... said TEXT ON A CARD, dumbass. I've lost civility at this point and your ignorance has me "bewildered", maybe "dumbfounded". VISUAL STIMULU - AKA FROM YOUR EYES. You just ignored all of my input on how it'll be useless to have that pinned to your board or even mentioned BECAUSE IT'LL BE "fluff" AND EXTRA VISUAL STIMULI, and then you ignored it and said the same thing paraphrased.

THE SMELL IS IN THE GAME? NO, it's just a really crappy (and this is pseudo code)

if player:DistanceFromCharacter(npcReferenceHere) < 15 then
    -- whatever code here
end

That is LUA code (and Unity games commonly use C#), and a crappy example, but still an example. It's not a smell system... it uses the "sound reaction system" and it's noticeable. When you get close enough, it triggers your exact location every second or so you're close enough in the same way they would react to a light turning on, and then gives them some dialogue saying "Something reeks.." or whatever.

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You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Noticing things like that, where there is just a re-skinned feature, is noticeable to me especially because I have messed around in a game engine before. No I am not an expert, no I am not a developer of Shadows of Doubt, no I am not a better developer, no I can not develop the game myself better than any developer has or will do. I am not claiming any of those things.

Picking up on details like that, (the smell system being a re-skinned sound detection system, or otherwise detecting a trespassers action from a light turning on, sound from a PC, etc) is something I and assumingly many others are able to do, but apparently not you. Because of the poor quality of the "smelly" feature and how easy it is to get rid of, I simply disabled it in the settings.

paper geode
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<@&561208653491732507>

orchid glade
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what I said still applies

honest current
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I hope it gets added after reading all of that

orchid glade
# honest current I hope it gets added after reading all of that

Okay. I don't see truth in their argument that my inability to smell in real life clouds my judgement of smell within a video game.. where EVERY SENSE has to substituted as visual or audio, when I have functioning eyes and ears and therefor will not effect anything at all.

honest current
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@brittle apex YOU WILL RUE THE DAY YOU THOUGHT OF SMELLING IN A GAME

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Don’t ever recommend smell ya see? Listen toots these streets ain’t like they used to be. You don’t even mention smell around these parts.

sullen fog
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This would be a cool mod less of a cool main game feature. Mostly because smell doesn’t work like that. No one sniffs a corpse and smells the food on the lips. Most the smells would be death. Or perfume. I love the idea. But it would have to be a op sense of smell to do any good.

I would love if a modded came through and made a lot of these ideas into an immersion mod. Another absolutely amazing idea was search warrants but it wouldn’t have place in the main game as a base feature