Gang Warfare

[drowsy sail]

Add at least three separate gangs to each city, with their own randomized membership, organizational structure, turf, and money making ventures, using the already pre-existing money lenders and illegal arms and drug dealers and making them affiliated with one gang or another, and make it so they have random relationships with each other, with some forming alliances and others being rivals. Turf would ideally shift via wars and buyouts over the course of the game, with gang warfare being a quite simple affair of “some guys start shooting at other guys in the streets”.

In addition, as the name implies, let some murders be related to mafia squabbling, with murders potentially increasing tensions between the gangs if one gangster kills a rival gangster, or even some Yakuza plotline shit where a gangster tries to murder one of their own and pins it on a rival gang in an attempt to start a gang war.

[wicked burrow]

Gang warfare would be amazing. Mobs, Gangs, robberies, heists etc.

[covert hull]

Could add an element of investigation into the crime family, and their connections to a potential gang murder

[solemn elbow]

gangs could even intimidate witnesses so they wont speak to you about anything, possibly try to jump you or harass you if you investigate to much into the murder and maybe make it so you can ultimately take down the gang in the long term

[drowsy sail]

@shadow harbor @gray sundial honestly, it's this one that I wanna deal with- has cole said anything about adding organized crime in general

[gray sundial]

i haven't seen anything over the past few months

if it were to come it'd probably be part of the social class update

the dev has been very quiet in terms of suggestions ever since release in ea

[drowsy sail]

Okay then, what do you think of this as a concept? One thing I'd also add to it is that it would also kind of work as a second job, down to visiting shady nightclubs and bars to find out what a guy did for a gang

[drowsy sail]

alongside all of this

[gray sundial]

it's fine

this is just what i expect from a more alive city

[drowsy sail]

yeah basically

[gray sundial]

i think though that the turf wars and etc might be too intrusive, but that's because i've played 100 hours of shadow of doubt so it feels weird having such a jarring change

[drowsy sail]

I think the turf wars should be something that looms over a case, like you need to calm down the gangs yourself to avoid more blood in the streets by ending the case early

OKAY NO THAT'S ACTUALLY A GOOD WAY TO TIE GANGS TO A DETECTIVE GAME- REPRESENTATIVES OF BOTH GANGS COME UP TO YOU AND SAY "hey, this guy killed our guy, you better fucking get them for us or we'll come for you/go to war", and you're forced into making bullshit confessions or risk the wrath of that particular gang

[gray sundial]

eh

i would like to see more lighter activities and integration first before anything else

that's just too much for me rn

[drowsy sail]

oh for sure- just like, initially treat them as like how jobs work basically

they have little dens they operate out of, gang civvies have crime jobs and those jobs are interesting, yadda yadda

basically a sort of job reskin at first

with the main thing being that a lot of their suspects can be of rival gangs, who do still fight it out in the streets and do deals and shit

[shadow harbor]

As described, this would completely change the foundation and complexion of the game. Not into it.

Adding crime rivals as another motive for murder is cool though. I'm into it on that level.

[drowsy sail]

Would… it? Specifically the suggestion of “criminal job as a second version of job that’s more dangerous” is basically just a content expansion to how regular jobs already work.

I think the way I would handle it would literally just be reskinned jobs but with a few twists, one being that those jobs actually effect things in the world- notably, the arms dealers and drug dealers lying around. And yes, the aforementioned crime rivals thing, where gangs can fight each other in the streets and murder each other, with rival gangs being treated as potential suspects

The only other change I would make is that maybe pursuing gang related murders is just somehow more dangerous than regular ones- like, maybe the thing you complained about everybody being strapped and trigger happy only really applies to gangsters

Yeah maybe cut out the shifting turf stuff, but keep regular gang controlled areas in alongside the gambling dens, drug houses and nightclubs that replace offices, where there’s a reputation meter curried with each gang depending on what cases you take and how they end

Like, some gangs will be more likely to answer your questions or you can even get free information off them with enough curried favor, while other gangs will stone wall or even outright attack you if you’ve, say, arrested their boss

[hushed crow]

I agree that it would completely change the foundation of the game. The biggest thing would be reformatting how people interact with the world. people terrorized by gang violence or under control of gangs would act different than normal people. People would avoid areas if they new they were gang controlled. People would avoid other people in the street if they new they were gangsters. I could go on.

I personally thing adding gangs to the game would be great, but it would change the world completely. Maybe a good way to go about this would be add a gangs toggle when creating a new city.

[gray sundial]

that's a good way to put that feeling i was feeling

[drowsy sail]

See that’s actually where you’re entirely wrong, or at least in the bit about people avoiding things. You don’t give a wide berth in the streets to a guy who happens to be wearing a particularly loud suit, and I don’t see why this game, of all games, would give two shits about the NPCs having specific districts they avoid. It would absolutely not need any change, both from a game perspective and even a realism perspective to some degree.

[hushed crow]

It's not about a "loud suit" it's about knowing your neighbors. I'm speaking of specific people, not people who look as if they may be affiliated. People who are bad people are usually well known within their communities and people will do anything to avoid those people if they can help it.

[drowsy sail]

Okay, not to get too harsh, but it’s time for me to get VERY harsh: what the fuck are you talking about? Do you think that being a gangster automatically nets you a negative enough reputation that you’ll be out and out pariah’d? Do you not realize that even in real life, tons of gangsters become respected community pillars in spite of their evil jobs and others become, as you say, pariahs? It’s a frankly kind of childish view of what being a gangster is if you think that it automatically gets you kicked out of every barbeque. And also, that does not even matter, because this game clearly does not give and should not give the slightest fuck about simulating details like that.

[hushed crow]

This game is early access there are currently no real relationships between characters, but i believe there should be. I never said that becoming a gangster automatically makes you a pariah. Which is why i said i was not referring to a loud suit. Let me explain what I meant. There would be some members of the gang that nobody would know and nobody would care about. They would get no extra attention, nobody would act differently towards these people. Then there would be members of the gang that would be infamous for being dispicable. People would act differently when they see these people. Some people may flee, others may opt to avoid the area, while others simply may not talk to you when they see these folks in the area.

As you say, gangsters that become pillars of the community these mechanics may not fully apply. It would largely depend on the reputation of the gangster. If someone was a "good" gangster, they would be treated differently than someone who was "Bad".

[drowsy sail]

So basically, you want a system where Joe Pesci’s character from goodfellas is like, feared by the community? I… can kind of dig that, but think that would require changes to how character relationships work that wouldn’t necessarily need to be inextricably tied to gangsters. What you’re suggesting is actually an idea all it’s own, and not a half bad one, just not one connected strictly to gangsters

[hushed crow]

Correct it wouldn't be a change only applying to gangsters, I commented on another post supporting family trees which would be part of a similar system. It is my opinion that adding gangsters wouldn't feel realistic without some for of relationship system also being implemented. I mean two rival gangs' would have to have some form of relationship to on another

I also feel adding gangsters would require additional changes such as:
A motive system.
Non serial killer murders.
Non Murder crimes.
Gang related activities, such as taking a loan from a loan shark.

I had some other ideas but I forgot them before I wrote them down.