🗿
#Sailing Skill Disabled for New Players…
winged sorrel
I started playing the game a week ago and average about 5 hours a day (40 hours total currently).
I was prioritizing SVIM tasks
completing SVIM tasks whenever they refresh and I am online, I am currently sailing level 9
If you prioritize ALL of svim's task, which judging by your post, you do prioritize as recommended by the veterans. This assuming that you're actually successfully doing 3 tasks every refresh.
You would've already gotten to level 20 within a week. With just 35 hours of actual gameplay. 5 hours a day.
This assumes you're doing 6 svims' task a day.
6 svims' a day, up to 42 Svims' task total by end of Week 1. That would've been more than enough to land you in level 20.
Because here's the thing: You play Bitcraft five hours a day.
That is 6 tasks total. Including the refresh. You're doing something really wrong here.
winged sorrel
Admittedly this is also largely due to the fact that many SVIM tasks are very hard or straight up impossible for new players to complete.
Now this, I won't deny but:
Svim generally tasks for following:
10 Blank Parchment,
10 Salt,
10 cooked lakefish fish.
1 Ocean fish package,
1 annoying Ocean scale.
1 Cloth Tarp
1 T1 Timber.
You can easily do ALL except the Ocean fish package and annoying ocean scale.
mellow hamlet
given what Swim asks for I'm not surprised really, especially if you don't main fishing
winged sorrel
It's not even hard to do fishing.
mellow hamlet
tho only lv 9, makes me think you've missed a few resets
spring tree
I absolutely have missed resets…
mellow hamlet
regardless, I do tend to think that sailing and taming need a bit of reworking for exp gain
spring tree
I play 5 hours a day. I have a job
winged sorrel
Yeah but with just 5 hours a day, you'd realistically gotten level 15 sailing within a week if you skip the ocean-fishing.
mellow hamlet
current system doesn't work well for casual players, or more dedicated players who casually complete requests
spring tree
I recommended this game to my friend who loves fishing in MMOs and has been playing them for 10 years. He tried the game yesterday and stated it’s the worst fishing sailing system he has ever played in any game ever
I’ll let him know all he needs to do it login to the game every 4 hours exactly and do tasks for 50 hours of game time and he’s at the entry level tho
Sure that will bring him back
winged sorrel
I mean if he's logging into game every four hours exactly.
Then it would've taken him 2 IRL days to get to level 20 sailing instead
spring tree
If you are able to log into a video game on a 4 hour schedule you have serious issues in your life man
winged sorrel
I'm pointing out that there is serious inconsistency in your statement. You're not prioritizing Svim's task, you're slacking on it.
You're level 9 sailing, you said you prioritize svim's task.
spring tree
Work, family, obligations. People login games once a day and play till they log off
mellow hamlet
there's not an inconsistency, this game is not a job and Svim asks for a wide variety of things
winged sorrel
Yes and wide variety of things isn't that hard to do.
mellow hamlet
for a casual it is
winged sorrel
I've provided the list of what he wants, and lot of these resources he want are fairly easy to make if you focus on them.
spring tree
Honestly, they 100000% should reset everyone’s sailing to 1
spring tree
They should now
It’s a faulty test
If u fundamentally change the system it has zero value as a test sample
mellow hamlet
also the point is that there's an issue with the system, and the devs should take another look at balancing it
out of curiosity KnickerBocker what changes would you suggest for the system itself, we used to have active exp gain from sailing which should come back at some point, and I've seen a few other suggestion like 'trainings' similar to those available for cooking and construction
winged sorrel
It probably won't come back with how people manage to script the ability to pathfind constantly. Even then. It's not gonna be enough EXP to get you to level 20 either way.
Remember. Taming/Sailing XP got disabled for botting reasons.
mellow hamlet
I think some of the macro issues would go away if we had more exp options beyond time gated quests and honestly pathetic travel exp generation - some people are always gonna try to bot/use macros regardless, and those are the people that will likely get banned
winged sorrel
Yeah but it is because of those people that Moderation knows they don't have every manpower in the world to track down, and punish.
spring tree
Gimme 5 min driving rn
winged sorrel
Okay stop texting and driving.
winged sorrel
I think some of the macro issues would go away if we had more exp options beyond...
Regardless the best way to handle the lack of alternative Sailing XP is to create an activity that actively rewards the Sailor to do the activity. Like transporting cargo from Harbor A to harbor B.
Similar to how Archeage did it.
mellow hamlet
that sounds like a good addition
fathom relic
agreed, this lack of active xp is beyond frustrating
mellow hamlet
I've seen something similar suggested as a straight trade addition
but adding sailing exp seems like a good incentive
winged sorrel
The more cargo your raft/skiff/clipper/cargo ship holds, the more sailing XP (and whatever agreed hexcoin was given to you by the person doing Harbor request) results when you deliver it to harbor they want. Allow more player transportation between regions
It also have to be backpack items specifically as well,and you get more EXP if it's like T10 compared to if it's T1.
vital pecan
Can we all agree that tasks suck
are there people that actually prefer this over being able to deterministically train a skill? people overwhelmingly hate daily quests in mmo's and we got that but worse
feels like tasks should just be treated as a placeholder system until the skills are actually trainable and then they get torn out and hexcoin generation is done through some other means
spring tree
Ok I’m back, now what should ACTUALLY be done with the sailing skill is easy and obvious. I’ve seen many people suggestion some version of it
mystic current
Remember. Taming/Sailing XP got disabled ***for*** botting reasons.
People were botting because gaining sailing exp through tasks sucks
It's a game design flaw if people feel botting is the practical choice
vital pecan
they fully plan to make the skills trainable btw, i just hate daily quests.
winged sorrel
People were botting because gaining sailing exp through tasks sucks
It's a game ...
Which is why they disabled it to figure out another solution.
spring tree
The best solution for the sailing skill is simply to re-brand it. Change the skill name to “explorer”, “adventurer”, “navigator” or something similar. And you make the XP gain directly linked to discovering new areas
rustic acorn
from my understanding the plan for tasks is to be an initial intro to the economy but they want different skill gains for midgame and on
spring tree
Super easy to implement, and basically every explorer in history was also a sailor, so it fits
rustic acorn
The best solution for the sailing skill is simply to re-brand it. Change the...
yeah, I like getting sailing on exploration, don't even need a rebrand
spring tree
But then you have land discovery giving sailing xp
winged sorrel
feels like tasks should just be treated as a placeholder system until the skills...
People overwhelmingly hate daily tasks
That's a big jump there. Many people will do their dailies just because it gives them something to do. The issue is that certain games like World of Warcraft for instance have every single activity be a daily, or a weekly. The rewards they provide are essentially very minor, or so pointless.
spring tree
And you can’t have it as just water territory discovered, cause that’s unfair to people who spawn in landlocked zones
winged sorrel
That is why lot of people hates WoW. Because almost everything there is in WoW was a daily.
fathom relic
dailies suck, i just want a decent way to work towards getting my next fishing boat
spring tree
The daily task system itself is fine besides the fact that SVIM missions themselves are impossible for new players….
vital pecan
```People overwhelmingly hate daily tasks```
That's a ***big*** jump there. Man...
I had runescape in mind, where the meme "dailyscape" exists 
, and people in wow hate dailies too. thats why blizzard made their rewards so minor that it never feels bad to just not do them.
winged sorrel
It feels bad because you actually have to do them in WoW.
vital pecan
back in original wotlk when they provided a significant amount of gold everyone would just complain while still doing them
spring tree
Bruh I just want a boat without 100 hours….. and that’s fast estimate
Half of SVIM missions are “undiscovered” for new players. I’ve seen 6 salt total in my 40 hours….
vital pecan
Bruh I just want a boat without 100 hours….. and that’s fast estimate
now do the math on the clipper and cargo ship, cargo ship when we had the xp for actively sailing was a 3500+ hour grind
LOL
winged sorrel
Salt is only found where there are ocean.
spring tree
Y’all assuming that new players have hundreds of hours of knowledge…..
winged sorrel
Which will throw off lot of people, because that mean you gotta go to shoreline.
spring tree
The game quite literally LOCKS the recipes
winged sorrel
Welcome to discovery, friend. Wikipedia should never be your friend.
Seriously I am cursed with the knowledge that Skiff is slower than a clipper in an ocean biome.
spring tree
If the game requires every new player to open Wikipedia in order to progress in a skill than this is a doomed game
100% dead on arrival lmao
winged sorrel
You've never heard of Minecraft, or Terraria.
vital pecan
that are not dead
winged sorrel
these games literally have people open up wikipedia all the time.
vital pecan
the first thing anyone tells you to do when you ask for advice as a new player in osrs is to get used to looking things up on the wiki, a youtuber even made a video series about playing the game without the wiki and he got so hard locked from completing quests that he had to bend his own rules after a while
but, also... i would never see salt and think "i probably get this from the ocean"
id be imagining some sort of salt mine somewhere
so i get the confusion
spring tree
Ya, my buddy who wanted to fish spent an hour and half researching and traveling for a SVIM task and apparently had to be lv 60 for it so wasted his time.
vital pecan
had to be level 60 for what
spring tree
No clue myself cause I decide not to spend an hour on a task that gives the same exact reward I can get for a different skill in 5 minutes
Idk, why would I spend hours investigating a broken skill?
vital pecan
well because its not possible
winged sorrel
Level 20 get you a skiff, level 50 get you a clipper, level 80 get you a Cargo Ship.
vital pecan
svim wouldnt be asking for an item that requires level 60 unless youre level 60 in sailing, which nobody in the game is yet
spring tree
He tried to get some giant fish for a mission and said he neeeded a lv 60 rod
mystic current
but, also... i would never see salt and think "i probably get this from the ocea...
feels odd reading this.
Back during schooling days, had those experiments of boiling salt water to simulate boiling sea water to get salt
vital pecan
then your friend must be level 60+ fishing and just didnt have a t6 rod to get the fish
but if youre that far progressed id imagine your friend would know how the game works
sorry t5 rod
spring tree
He has 6 hours playtime and quit cause fishing was boring and sailing are broken
vital pecan
sounds like its not broken hes just being a silly goofy goober
mystic current
He has 6 hours playtime and quit cause fishing was boring and sailing are broken
It is kinda broken, when to fish you need to do other professions/tasks just so you can get boat upgrades
spring tree
Cool, so only 5,000hrs of playtime under the new system
vital pecan
at that level it was definitely a t1, max t2 task. in which case youd only need either level 1 or level 20 fishing to complete it. if it was a t2 task and it was asking for t2 fish then he would need a t1 rod to gather the fish
the starting rod is not t1, its t0
winged sorrel
Starting rod is T0 which is frustrating.
I feel like they should've pushed the level from 100 to 90
and it would've made far more sense
Because you spent 0-20 doing... T1
fathom relic
with no details from the devs on specifically when we will get active sailing xp, this becomes pointless
spring tree
Pretty sure he was stuck on Ocean Fish Package quest.
winged sorrel
Oh then that's just how it is. Ocean Fish package quest is annoying.
You have to:
Fish a bait-fish.
Fish up lake-fish.
Then get meat from Sagi bird.
Then turn lake-fish and sagi bird into chum.
Make at least 2-3 chums.
Sail out to an ocean. Now you'll want to go to boundary between the regions for most sure chance, even though there's potential ocean biome in various locations elsewhere. This is generally easiest to do though.
Then you have to spend a bit fishing at the chummed waterspot that you've found.
If you hadn't noticed already, you need a raft.
vital pecan
they made making chum purposefully annoying so it would "encourage group play"
so youre "incentivized to go out with a group and share chum"
winged sorrel
I mean it works, honestly. The issue is everybody need their own raft or skiff.
vital pecan
since if someone chums the pool everyone can use it still
winged sorrel
That's the issue. Your skiff/clipper/cargo can't be used by anyone else but yourself
Feels like an oversight imho
vital pecan
I mean it works, honestly. The issue is everybody need their own raft or skiff.
yeah i mean it works, ive seen people do group trips to go fishing. i just think its stupid because it just hurts small groups, its annoying for the sake of being annoying
anyway were going off topic on rants ahahahaha
fix sailing
flat elk
getting sailing xp mostly feels bad cause the task system is bad. I have a clipper and can say its a slog.
spring tree
You typed all that out and just thought, “Yup, this defends my stance that this system is A OK and doesn’t requires hundreds of hours from new players”…..
vital pecan
i mean, requiring hundreds of hours from a player is just this games whole thing.... yes you need to as a new player too 😂 gestures at peoples 400+ hours within the first month
spring tree
For a new player to reach the ENTRY point of the sailing skill, lv 20, it requires over 100 hours currently. That is a BIG ISSUE
spring tree
i mean, requiring hundreds of hours from a player is just this games whole thing...
For ONE SKILL, and that’s JUST ENTRY level
flat elk
does it? thats not a 100 hours grinding sailing. that just general play.
spring tree
Like sailing is legit 10x worse than hunting/leathewrokign ever was
vital pecan
im not defending it, the system sucks. but if you think 100 hours is a long grind just wait until you have a single craft that takes 45 hours
spring tree
does it? thats not a 100 hours grinding sailing. that just general play.
Yes.
100 hours grinding SVIM tasks whenever you online
vital pecan
im not even exaggerating too, longest craft ive done was 45 hours long. it took 3 full days
fathom relic
its not a grind atm, its just a time gate
spring tree
I mean unless you are logging on SOLELY to do SVIM tasks, and then logging off after as to not inflate your hours, it will take over 100 hours to reach sailing lv 20
flat elk
no. its not just grinding svim quests. You don't have to spend that much time on svim, cause you prep most of what you need before you need it. if you see a quest then have to run out to go get it you are going to have a bad time.
vital pecan
can you show the math for that
spring tree
For comparison, I have 40 hours and have already cleared lv 20 in every other skill
vital pecan
because im pretty sure its way less
spring tree
Lv 9 sailing
fathom relic
i respect a grind, dirt time to aquire something you want, this is just painful to watch
spring tree
And I do every SVIM task that I can (which doesn’t take an hour of time to get the resources)
vital pecan
show the math or stop
im pretty certain its way way under 100 hours but i just smoked and i cba to do math right now
flat elk
Yes, sailing is going to be slow, cause the task system sucks but you are not grinding 100 hours on Just sailing. You are doing all kinds of other things.
winged sorrel
show the math or stop
You need 39,000 sailing XP total to get to level 20 sailing.
Around that number.
Each Svim task awards 1k each
vital pecan
34,800 not 3900
spring tree
39 tasks. A new player can typically only do 1 SVIM task if they are lucky
spring tree
34 tasks then
vital pecan
spring tree
its 34.5 hours
Your tasks reset every hour?
vital pecan
ugh ok fine let me double check task xp values
fathom relic
reset is every 4hrs
spring tree
Your math is assuming that a new player who buys this game logs in and out solely to do SVIM tasks…..
winged sorrel
it is 1,000 EXP per task.
No EXP have ever gone below 1,000
I would be amazed if I could find a task that goes below 1,000...
vital pecan
is your "100 hours" real time? because thats only like 4 and a half days
what was that website with all of the tasks on it
winged sorrel
I listed out all the tasks
10 Salt,
10 cooked lakefish fish.
1 Ocean fish package,
***1*** annoying Ocean scale.
1 Cloth Tarp
1 T1 Timber.```ok so i was right its 1k per task
yeah then its 34.5 hours of playtime to get skiff if you do every svim task during those 34.5 hours
way under the 100 hour claim
spring tree
A new player will average 1 - 1.5 SVIM tasks per reset since they are by far the hardest. Considering it’s a 4 hour reset, the absoltelty EARLIEST a new player can reach lv 20 sailing is 138 hours
And that’s logging in and out for EVERY SVIM
vital pecan
now youre just pushing the goal post
flat elk
since its 35 tasks to hit 20. each T1 task is 1k per. even if you only did 3 tasks a day, which is easy to do for a causal. It would take 12 days. This game is all about the long grinds.
vital pecan
is it "it takes 100 hours to unlock skiff" or is it "it takes me 100 hour to unlock skiff because i dont do all my tasks"
spring tree
?
flat elk
svim tasks are easy. not sure where you are getting they are the hardest.
vital pecan
just because you dont get them done doesnt mean theyre not doable
youre choosing to not do it
there is nothing in the game preventing you
fathom relic
those tarps are a pain
vital pecan
pain =/= impossible
spring tree
youre choosing to not do it
WTF are you talking about?
vital pecan
tasks suck
fathom relic
very true
spring tree
Where did I say I didn’t do SVIM tasks?
flat elk
tarps are not so bad at t1. Higher tiers? very much a pain to get tarps
fathom relic
by comparison to the fish, etc its a bit much
vital pecan
Where did I say I didn’t do SVIM tasks?
theres 3 tasks per reset, you math is literally assuming you dont do all 3 every 4 hours
spring tree
I said I did every single SVIM task that doesn’t require an hour of time to farm resources every single time I was online since I started playing. I legit stated this like 3 times….
winged sorrel
You put in a cargo request, asking someone to ferry like 10 T2 Packaged planks and some hex-coin award for anyone willing to do (as an incentive), and send that request.
Then anyone willing to sail can look at this task, see if their current ship can support it, and then sail to designated harbor. They succeed the delivery, and will be awarded sailing XP equal to amount of cargo that was in or the tier of cargo
Higher tier cargo means more sailing EXP, and Hex-coin on top. And no - you can't self-request yourself.
vital pecan
✨economy✨
winged sorrel
⭐ Economy.
vital pecan
i was in dragons head and set up buy orders for every item on the task list for every npc
ez
winged sorrel
This is truly a meta play honestly.
winged sorrel
You can actually do this and people would just sell random crap to it and you can just use that to get tasks done
vital pecan
people setup trader stands next to the npcs
that sell the stuff for the gold value you get from the task
they get the gold you get the xp ezpz
spring tree
JFC the irony of this whole situation is incredible
flat elk
if you do set up good buy orders people will sell. i've done it too. Sold to buy orders the extra stuff i had from grinding svim tasks.
winged sorrel
tarps are not so bad at t1. Higher tiers? very much a pain to get tarps
Tarps aren't even bad at higher tier. The issue is you need water bucket.
Water buckets are needed starting at T2.
.. Then you need to bug Rambugh.
flat elk
water is easy. its needing 150 wisp thats the problem and its only getting more.
winged sorrel
Rumbagh?
I can't relate to that one. I can easily get like 1,000 T2 Wispweave in 30 minutes
spring tree
Hey, new player here. Just wanted to share some feedback on your brand new system since it’s drastically different from a new players perspective.
People with 500+ hours - lmao skill issue. Proceeds to fill the support tickets with end game economy discussion built around the literal tools/vehicles new players are now completely gatekept from…..
winged sorrel
Hey, new player here. Just wanted to share some feedback on your brand new sys...
gods I WISH.
flat elk
T4 wisp you need 100 but the growing time is 2hours. T5 starts the 150 wisp
vapid fulcrum
"You're playing the game wrong"
"It's supposed to be like that"
"Just play 10 hrs a day bro"
"If you have prior knowledge of game mechanics and min/max, it's fine"
"It's Early Access, what did you expect?"
"It'll all be fixed eventually, so no need to give any feedback"
"Maybe this game isn't for you"
flat elk
Knicker, I got my skiff before they put in the sailing XP. Heck i was at 35 sailing before the sailing xp thing even came in.
so its not gatekept from new players.
spring tree
I have been actively trying to level all my skills evenly. My sailing is currently lv 9, and every other skill is over 25….. like it’s blatantly obvious the system is flawed, because I literally have spent more time trying to raise sailing than any other individual skill
flat elk
yes, the task system sucks. Though if you understand how things work its not too bad. Slow, yes cause everything else does not have much time gating. All the npc task skills level slowly. maybe with exception of contruction but even that is pretty slow.
guess cooking is not bad, since you can just grind that one out.
spring tree
I’ll admit, if I was willing to quit my job like a lot of you recommended an ensured i was online for every SVIM reset, I would probably have a higher Sailing skill. But personally, I don’t think that’s a good game mechanic…
flat elk
Its a long grind. Thats this game, long long grinds. You just need to prep svim's quest stuff. Instead of going out and getting 1 fish cargo for the quest, you get 20-40 of them and throw them in the bank. same with all his other stuff. You horde. Like you do with everything else you need in the game.
fathom relic
thats only one part of the equation
vapid fulcrum
There used to be an Improved Raft that helped bridge the gap between Raft and Skiff, idk why it was removed, but the gap between lvl 1 and lvl 20 sailing was brought up a lot during the first week of release.
Idk why every feedback post people have to try to gaslight OP to act like there's no problems with this game. It's EA, the devs need our feedback in order to be able to finish the game
flat elk
100% they do need to add more and do stuff, but at the same time throwing around stuff like it takes 100 hours of grinding and new players being gate kept is not helping anything.
spring tree
You say that as if it’s not true thou lmao
winged sorrel
Well it's not.
flat elk
its not.
winged sorrel
Also every other skill is 25... Damn you're real grinder. 😩
vapid fulcrum
neither is tacking on 250 comments to this post derailing it in all sorts of ways
new players don't do a straight line of progression towards a specific goal, they're inefficient and learning the game
spring tree
Unless you are logging into/out of the game specifically for SVIM missions, you are not getting above lv 20 sailing within 100 hours of playtime
winged sorrel
Seriously I should make that Harbor Feedback.
It would probably be better discussion of that than simply turn back on Sailing XP from sailing around
spring tree
It’s literally just a built in feature with timegating
rustic acorn
It would probably be better discussion of that than simply turn back on Sailing ...
yeah, make your own feedback, this thread is going nowhere productive
winged sorrel
Yeah. I'll draw the idea when I get back, Lunara.
I hope you guys will have good day though. Be safe at work, Knicker.
🫡
spring tree
I quite literally never said to turn it back on and and said I supported turning it offf
Literally illiterate
Please read my post next time before commenting 20+ times
flat elk
and then under that you say turn it back on till lvl 20 so new players are not shafted and at a disadvantage to older players out had an advantage. which sailing xp was not turned on for quite a while. it was only up for like a week i think. would have to check notes for exact time.
sinful sun
There's a reason there's going to be a wipe on luanch
part of EA is to test for exploits so there is no unfairness
but the people with high sailing were fundamentally exploiting it
it didn't matter for anyone else
spring tree
I will admit that I was not aware sailing xp was a recent update. But if that is the case, all that shows is that their IS a issue with the sailing skill, and the Devs are literally trying to fix it.
spring tree
I will admit that I was not aware sailing xp was a recent update. But if that ...
If someone just responded with this it could saved 200+ messages
flat elk
Most of the highest sailing levels didn't exploit it. the devs said they took the xp from people that did. didn't see any of the top list fall so.
sinful sun
No
Quite literally
they said they couldn't
Which is why theyr'e making the rules more clear.
so they can properly punish botting.
sinful sun
I will admit that I was not aware sailing xp was a recent update. But if that ...
Exactly btw
they're trying to find engaging ways to train it that aren't just sailing in circles
spring tree
Ya, cause I’m new, I thought the sailing xp system from before was the normal one, and that this was a rushed change to stop botting.
Probably will end up deleting this thread and replacing it with a simple suggestion (the map discover one many have mentioned before), since it was created on incorrect info
SVIM tasks do need to be more beginner friendly tho, but a lot of people already have threads about that.
flat elk
devs already said no map discovery one, cause they don't want people locking themselves out of xp they could have gotten.
sinful sun
Task aren't supposed to be the main way to train skills @spring tree
spring tree
How would map discovery lock you out?
sinful sun
They're supposed to be like a bottom line for trade almost
flat elk
you can swim.
sinful sun
so scales add value to fishing without taking money from the market
spring tree
you can swim.
Oh no, my suggestion was a bit different
flat elk
The scales are a bit evil starting off. At least they buffed their drop rate.
spring tree
The best solution for the sailing skill is simply to re-brand it. Change the skill name to “explorer”, “adventurer”, “navigator” or something similar. And you make the XP gain directly linked to discovering new areas
Don’t need to be on a raft to explore, Any exploring gives “adventurer” xp
So sure, swim, sail, or walk
flat elk
could work. Devs have said they want like some kind of sailing mission where you go get cargo in the water and bring it back or something like that.
spring tree
Honestly I consider Sailor and Explorer synonyms to a degree.
Will make a thread later just for clarity cause this is way too long of one now lol
sinful sun
No sailing is going to be a full skill
skills aren't fleshed out yet
again combat is just ramparte task currenlty
cooking is just heimlich task
flat elk
They will be fleshed out, but they will not be like full professions. They want skills to be something anyone can level.
spring tree
Cooking gives xp, and fighting Jakyls gives xp
fathom relic
They will be fleshed out, but they will not be like full professions. They want ...
and " will be " does not fix these problems now