Walling off profession stations is not chill

[lofty hornet]

rope

leather

[quick fulcrum]

We're talking about before they were even open. But i do appreciate you trying to change the narrative

I respect it truth be told

[devout girder]

As far as I'm aware the only things that were listed were things like rope, as a joke. No completed resources that were actually useful

[torpid thunder]

Oh yeah i definitely saw ornate stuff of dh market couple days back lol

[quick fulcrum]

As a joke, very funny

[lofty hornet]

just go to bitjita > market > "ornate"

you can see who listed it

dax said part of it was to corner markets

[devout girder]

Rope, which again isn't actually useful

[torpid thunder]

Plus melody him/herself said they were cornering the market on region chat

[lofty hornet]

yeah without the wood stuff i guess you cant do anything with it

or the ore

[sharp notch]

told him he should have listed it for 7777777
people don't get the joke if it's not super obvious

[radiant cape]

That's the hypocritical thing, if you wall off stations when your members have used public stations in other settlements.

If players want to wall of stations, members of that settlement should not be allowed to use public stations in other settlements.

Right now there is no system that allows that

[torpid thunder]

Unironically rope is more useful than cloth, but this is offtopic

[devout girder]

That was an original conversation, plans change.

[devout girder]

It's useless unless you have all the other resources as well

[sharp notch]

Tortuga has public access to all stations that can be accessed in other claims
so no idea what your problem is

[torpid thunder]

Im not specifically targetting tortuga but theyre the only example i have. Also i am in support on ur side for saying that it should be ok to wall off the stations

Im not trying to be confrontational here

[radiant cape]

I don't care about Tortuga just making a point that if settlements want to wall off stations while using other people's public settlements that's a form of leeching as well

[quick fulcrum]

I think the problem is that you talk the talk but don't walk the walk

If tortuga wants to respect their member's hard work by letting them use the stations first, i think you guys should respect the time of other settlements by waiting a week before using any other non-tortuga settlements again

[sharp notch]

okay so we can use your t7 stations right now?

[devout girder]

I honestly wanted to list T7 scrap for 10k each, would have been hilarious

[quick fulcrum]

Well by your own self imposed respect of others, you should wait a week before using calmalu when they hit t7. Afterall i did contribute quick a bit of stone chunks to them. Same with ottoadman and jaruud

I can say that Ive contributed to those settlements just like how ive contributed to Tortuga

Can you?

[sharp notch]

yes

[torpid thunder]

With the way conversation is going its becoming about fairness or asholesery which is probably beyond the scope of what the admins can do

[sharp notch]

seems a lot of "Tortuga bad" ranting to me tbh

[quick fulcrum]

What great contributions have you made to Calmalu, or Jaruud or Ottoadman. Im interested now

[torpid thunder]

Like "these is your problem go figure it out" cuz it doesnt sound like gamebreaking

But my reaction to this is simple, ill contribute my tax money and possibly resources elsewhere

[quick fulcrum]

I've contributed to each and every settlement I've used. I'd love for some people to call me a leech

[sharp notch]

here, have this t1 rock, I'm now entitled to use your stations forever :)

[quick fulcrum]

You've been entitled to use those :)
Again, i need to remind you that locking off stations is something only 𝘴𝘰𝘮𝘦 settlements have done :)

[sharp notch]

build t7 stations and we won't wall ours off
not a hard concept to grasp no?

[quick fulcrum]

Not a hard concept at all, sounds like everyone with t7 stations should wall themselves off

[sharp notch]

they can if they want, we'll just let people use ours then :)

[quick fulcrum]

Unfortunately despite all my pleas, the other t7 bound settlements don't want to. bless their big hearts

[torpid thunder]

Bar ur getting sucked into the kind of behaviour u initially wanted to prevent lmao

[quick fulcrum]

I was being sarcastic lol

I've now helped all 3 of the named settlements for all their t7 mining needs, not a single one has mentioned walling anything off

Must not come natural for them

[raven lynx]

Against my better judgement of jumping back into this hellhole of a thread; if anything constructive wants to be discussed, I made a seperate thread Bar and Cadexn, more actual suggestions and feedback could probably be helpful in it.

Or even input about the current posts

[devout girder]

3? there are currently only 2 claims researching T7

[ionic fog]

i have absolutely mentioned walling things off. i even told teloril he'd pay for the wall. 🙃

[quick fulcrum]

T7 bound as in eventually.

[quick fulcrum]

Yea but you mentioned toad coins so i didnt want to implicate you for irl trading

[ionic fog]

:^)

little does he know i don't even have build perms so imma pocket the bribe and run

anyway i just came here to congratulate yall on reaching 1000 messages

[civic gale]

Part of the strategy. Either war them and take over to remove the walls, create your own area, join them, or join someone else, or move areas entirely.

[lofty hornet]

this

[lofty hornet]

we beat the t4 berry thread and thats an accomplishment

[ionic fog]

also beat the stamina while crafting thread

[sharp notch]

did that one have as much drama as this one?

[ionic fog]

not even close

[lofty hornet]

basically, it was just directed at the devs instead

oop

jinx?

[ionic fog]

tbh i have no clue why the blueberry thread has that many messages. it was a very obvious purely factual issue.

[lofty hornet]

they even acknowledged it and threw a bandaid fix on it

[ionic fog]

bug reports should be as short as possible while having a full description or reproducibility.
feedback threads exist for people to go on for days and days repeating the same things over and over to the point that no one even bothers reading anything and just repeats what was just said.

[sharp notch]

reading is for nerds
just scream as loud as possible

[devout girder]

I need an ai bot to read these threads into tiktoks for views... This is a joke for any who can't tell

[quick fulcrum]

Discussion aside i do find the ratio of the +1 and -1 to be very funny

[sharp notch]

I find it sad
only 56 people having an opinion on it

[quick fulcrum]

You just have to look deeper at the people behind each reaction to see the humor in it

[sharp notch]

-1 people have access to a t7 claim
+1 don't have an access to a t7 claim
correct?

[sturdy oasis]

Walling off stations is up to a claim, it shouldn't be anything less. If you dont like a claims decision to do so, dont work with them. If you are a solo player, you arent restricted to a single claim, find a claim that works for you. If you provide services make sure to get a fair deal, in payment of coin or materials. A claim has gathered resources from many people to build those stations, and demanding access to that work is wrong for everyone who has worked upon it.

[ionic fog]

i mean, i agree with it being cringe but i don't even think this is the worst thing tortuga has done this week. devs have more important things to fix with this game rn tbh.

[quick fulcrum]

Correct me if im wrong, but i was told that everyone in the game currently has access to a t7 claim. Sorry if that is not true tho :)

[sharp notch]

well I guess it's not correct, since Tortuga has open access to t7 stations

[quick fulcrum]

Thanks, just making sure!

[sharp notch]

wait there's more drama?
tell me more

[ionic fog]

nah we're not allowed to bring in game drama into discord

🙃

[sharp notch]

dm me

[cinder sky]

[dusty mason]

The way the game was designed encourage ppl to use other settlements, especially for minor communities or solo players. Settlements should work as any mmo city, that why it was designed to be shared and have a passive income as benefit, atleast for large settlements.

[sharp notch]

oh hey, add a reputation system that determines which parts of claims you can use
guess the issue would be figuring out how the reputation would be earned

[lofty hornet]

a social credit system

fits right into the communist vibes

[empty bridge]

Walling off station is the prerogative of the people who built them, they put in the work to build them after all. That being said, we're trying to incentivize people not to wall them off.

[tribal bison]

imagine full free release and it has reputation system
then some influencer or botter or community to bomb reputation of someone that they didnt like
.....

[verbal goblet]

Reminds me of Black Mirror :p

[oak obsidian]

@oak obsidian reply has been deleted by fihs haters

[lofty hornet]

Is this Yeong 1 and Yeong 2 were talking to here?

[novel hare]

In current system, most players think that claims are, and should be public. The game implicitly teaches you that. And that's why players are so pissed off by Tortuga. It almost feels like a betrayal to the community.

If walling off stations is a player's right, just let people close their gate or make it private somehow. It feels very awkward having to surround the station with fences to make it private, which is their "prerogative". It makes them look incredibly selfish, way more then when they just make their land private.

Not letting the players to close their gates, but allowing them to fence off the stations feels like even the devs don't know what to do.

Either allow it by system, or disallow it by rules. Be clear. Please.

[cunning axle]

Being able to specifically block people/citizens of a specific claim/specific empires form utilizing settlements would be amazing.

I find it very weird when someone is overly aggressive and wall off their town, or is generally hostile and rude to people all the time in chat, yet they always come to our settlement to use our workbenches. There is 0 consequence for these types of toxic trolls

[silent glacier]

its same like i dont want strange people to visit my Bathroom

toilet is a good example for project limits, if someone uses it, you cant go to it.

[fresh flint]

Just the fact that you can’t set your claim to private and close down your gates shows that the devs want claims to be public. It’s not implicit, it’s right in our face.

[nocturne iris]

The problem is your using physical access limits to control a limited slot number. This claims have to deal with it.

This game is in Early Access. I agree players learn that stations and claims are public. I also dont think the devs have implemented all features yet.

[silent glacier]

and i have to deal with it, when some stranger uses MY toilet?

[nocturne iris]

I am accepting Blave's response for now. We will have to wait and see.

Claims are like towns not like bathrooms. Stations are not like toilets. But I understand you analogy just not the way the everyone sees it. Different perspective and all of that.

It would be nice of the Devs clearly stated thier opinion on that matter

[silent glacier]

its literally the same, or do you work for nothing?

[nocturne iris]

Not sure why it matters if I see the world differently. but its fine I guess.

[sharp notch]

Tortuga claim is fully public, no idea why you're complaining
at no point did Tortuga ever prevent anyone doing anything that's also possible in any other claim

[nocturne iris]

Exactly we dont understand each other complaining. I dont know why your here talking about Tortuga. I am just giving feedback, I assume you are as well.

[sharp notch]

because people keep spamming variations of "Tortuga bad"

[silent glacier]

its not feedback, its just hate against blocking of Stations, without sense

[nocturne iris]

I disagree with player controlled movement blocking in an MMO with out a way to blow up the wall. I dont want this game to have claim seiges so I am left with no alternative. I think it changes the atomosphere of the game to something I dislike.

[silent glacier]

we will see if Devs doing permissions onto stations, how many people are crying about they cant access them

permissions are also movement blocking, what are you talkign about xD

[pastel prairie]

Game already lost trust between players

[silent glacier]

"oh no i dont have permissions to come in to the city, i just blow up the wall to get access to"

[sharp notch]

I like how this whole drama thread wouldn't even happen if people just played the game and progressed to t7

[nocturne iris]

I come from a hard core gaming community. I am use to conflict and counter mechanics to situations. This game is just poorly explaining it intent behind mechanic leaving them open to intrepetations.

[pastel prairie]

From the moment it was confirmed that what was taken for granted wasn't taken for granted. We need to spend more time validating each other, and people will start to think about whether to spend valuable real time

[nocturne iris]

What was expected does not seem to be reality for some of us, we need to reevaluate if this the game for us.

[silent glacier]

if there were door locking, its litterally the same like just put a wall there

[nocturne iris]

I think it would teach a different lession to players that some claims can be private. and it would be understood. expectations would be better. hind sight 20 20 is not a good way to teach game mechanics.

[sharp notch]

economy is the only thing in this game, so supply/demand issues should have been expected

also I don't know of any private claims

[silent glacier]

with permissions there will many

and then people still crying about

[nocturne iris]

We would want to see it listed on the map so we know where we can go.

[sharp notch]

I don't think you'll have private claims
you'll probably just have separate groups
guess it might just become an informal way of making guilds

[nocturne iris]

I think guilds houses would help

[sharp notch]

what do you mean with guild houses?
like just regular houses that only specific people can enter?

[nocturne iris]

Nah, group managed instanced property. So like a guild is created and the guild structure. Private housing I think one player owns it. But I want a group to own it so as different leaders change the property still is accessible to the group and managed by the group (Guild).

[sharp notch]

yeah we're thinking the same idea
a house where only a specific group of people can enter
it's really just the same as having station specific permissions but with less micromanagement since you only have to set them once

[nocturne iris]

Not sure if we can assume the devs will put stations in there. But it would help if they did.

The rug pull for me was that claims stations could be walled off, while I always thought walls were to keep jackyls out not people due to how poorly walls were made.

[sharp notch]

guess you weren't around in the last alpha
the same thing happened because of trolls that were harassing high tier claims

[nocturne iris]

I played demo

[sharp notch]

yeah demo didn't have problems with high tiers since t2 was the cap
the last time this happened was alpha 3

[nocturne iris]

Yea, the devs are focused on new features before fixing the old it seems.

They do bug fix, dont get me wrong, but there are more to do still.

[sharp notch]

I mean, players found walls to protect themselves so there was no real issue :)

[nocturne iris]

I still want wall climbing though

Think the demand on stations maybe design to spread out the players to different claims.

I do think claim members should have unlimited slots though or priority slots

[sharp notch]

there are a lot of ways to handle it yeah
you'll always have spread out claims because of distance

[nocturne iris]

That is why I am waiting to see what Blave means by "...That being said, we're trying to incentivize people not to wall them off."

[lofty hornet]

None of this will even have to happen anymore with player housing

if people wanna restrict benches itll just go in somebodies house since those have perms where you can allow just specific individuals in to use them

although... idk if youre going to be able to move those outside of the house so that might be rough 😂

[gray trail]

Workbenches can't be placed inside a player house

[lofty hornet]

ooooo interesting ok

[gray trail]

Systems like the hexcoin generation when people craft. There are other systems we can introduce that will incentivize players not walling off claims.

[gray trail]

We're very much so focused on fixing the old. Things like player housing are a new feature that help address old problems (such as solo / Small group players having difficulty with storage and wanting a place of their own to build, players wanting more permissions over storage access, this also is another incentive to not close off a settlement since having filled house slots generates hexcoins for the claim.)

Housing isn't "the fix" for these things, but it's both a new feature that the artists can work on while we have programmers still working on more solid "fixes" for other design issues (such as storage permissions, which we need more of)

[nocturne iris]

People said they would be more willing to make stations pubic if claim members did not lose crafting slots. That would incentivize it more.

[nocturne iris]

When I was saying this I was thinking hunting and profession balance as well. with new feature being prioritized over them. We have seen a lot of player burn out on balance issue. And have seen hunting take a hit on the leaderboards.

The problem is is leather is slow to get then all other proffession wait on it or have to spend time helping. Which leads to players feeling bored since a profesision wont keep up.

[gray trail]

Right, a lot of fixes to hunting would require new features as well. We've increased exp and pelts per animal kill, but functionally no amount of number tweaking will fix the issue and a new feature that improves the hunting experience is needed

[nocturne iris]

Cant the spawn numbers of certain animals fix it? I run out of animals often, but never trees.

[gray trail]

And we did add tool scrapping, which is died to smithing, with plans for the armors as well. It's not like we are ignoring the professions, but tool Scrapping was a bit easier to get out sooner than proper hunting improvements :<

[sharp notch]

I'm guessing more animals could cause performance issues
trees are dumb so it's not a big deal
bunch of animals moving around though...

[gray trail]

Too many animals cause a lot of server lag, and while it would help it wouldn't be much different than just bumping up the number of pelts per animal again.

A lot of the day 1 server issues were due to the mob AI, and too many crabs

[nocturne iris]

So how about spawn timers?

[gray trail]

Can't say for certain. Still wouldn't make hunting feel all that much better, but yeah it's definitely another thing that wouldn't make a bad bandaid fix

[nocturne iris]

10% quicker spawn on timer, no extra mobs.

[gray trail]

Improvements to the profession gameplay and progression are something we have listed on our Roadmap as well, though nothing specific mentiond

[fresh flint]

do you plan on allowing closing off the gates?

[gray trail]

Just feel the "prioritizing new features" isn't fair when even with the hunting example we are doing as much as we can to try to buff hunting to keep up with the other professions while we wait to get to new features to make hunting more fun. :<

[gray trail]

Yeah, no ETA for that though

We want to fix some of the "clipping through walls" issues before we make cities feel more secure than they actually are...

[nocturne iris]

The Road Map did not show priorities but put profession balance low in the list.

[native gust]

I believe adding a skinning knife to pelt while hunting or adding the ability to shoot while riding would significantly improve the profession and overall fun. Having to run back and forth from mob to cargo feels bad compared to other professions.

[sharp notch]

wait there's a problem with the walking through walls feature?
are you making it simpler to do?

[gray trail]

Yeah, shoot while riding and / or having mounts follow you when not riding them are both things we are considering/looking into.

There was a bug that allowed you to shoot while riding, but it wasn't intended and was causing player server position errors and the animations were super broken. Having just the ability for the cargo collection follow you around would help a lot more than just hunting.

[nocturne iris]

Balance is the number one reason I hear before someone take time off from the game. I hang out in my group VC and Hunters saying the same thing and then go to play another game while most other professions stick around. I put it at the highest priority since I see the fall off in players.

@gray trail feel free to lock this thread, its been derailed by this point and Blave gave their answer.

[oblique pilot]

I've heard fair points from people that people walling off their stations actually increases the social aspect of the game.

But this is just a bandaid to a much bigger problem.

[ionic fog]

"enchancing" the social aspect and making it more toxic aren't mutually exclusive

[oblique pilot]

People complain about resources being spread too far out.
Meanwhile trade is dead.

[sharp notch]

it's basically just a hack to remove trolls since permissions can't be set up to fix that

[ionic fog]

lmao the irony

[oblique pilot]

Trade is dead because people would rather gather stuff themselves than pay someone.

[valid ginkgo]

I dont know if this has been brought up at all, but couldnt you band together with another advanced settlement - get a bunch of people together who all are disgruntled, boost a settlement to T7 as well, and then just never interact with them again??

[oblique pilot]

And often they can't pay someone, because they don't have money, because they can't sell anything, because trade is dead.

[sharp notch]

you could also just cooperate with the t7 claim and have access to t7

[valid ginkgo]

you could, but if you cant get access for whatever reason, you just go the alternate route and band together to push forward without them

[oblique pilot]

And having access to remote stations encourages self-gathering, and discourages trade.

[sharp notch]

Tortuga was always open to cooperation so uhh, I don't see any issues

[valid ginkgo]

idk, im not in your region with Tortuga, but if it was me in that position, I would band together with another active settlement that was like T5 or T6, and make the push to T7 with them, assuming you talk it out first and establish who does what

[oblique pilot]

But more directly, people lose more money from not being able to sell their stuff than they gain from letting people use their benches.

[valid ginkgo]

then instantly everyone has access to T7 benches, you never interact with Tortuga again, and they can do their own thing without affecting anyone else

[wraith glacier]

I'm with Mercy on this one. I'd try to get 2 active T6 settlement aligned, and then push to T7 or even t8 before Tortuga is even able to.

[idle cave]

people also "loose money" when they can't rush to the first t7 settlement and craft a ton of tools/gear to sell for outrageous prices since nobody else can make them.

[sharp notch]

the people in the region already cooperate there
it's just randoms from 2 specific groups always trying to smear Tortuga cause they can't keep up despite both being bigger

[ionic fog]

stop making drama

[wraith glacier]

Aren't they rightly being smeared for walling off stations and holding other back? lol

[sharp notch]

no?

[oblique pilot]

Honestly, most people in this thread have completely lost the plot.

[sharp notch]

all stations are open for use

[valid ginkgo]

look, im not in on the drama here, im just offering a suggestion

[sharp notch]

other claims still aren't providing access to t7

[ionic fog]

that's literally false

[vapid gust]

tortuga's players uses T7 claim now

[ionic fog]

^^

there's multiple people from tortuga using calmalu's stations

[oblique pilot]

But then that can be traced back to the wording of this post in general, not providing feedback on how to make the game better, but attacking the playstyle of people who play it in some fashion.

[ionic fog]

don't just lie to try to make your point valid

[sharp notch]

oh you guys finally allow others to use t7 stations
took you long enough
way longer than us

[idle cave]

t7 stations were temporarily locked for a few days, the rest of stations have always been free to use.
besides, if you don't have a t7 settlement you don't have a need for t7 stuff. what is "holding others back"?

[ionic fog]

that's also just completely invalid

plenty of people are able to do stuff at t7 who don't belong to any claim, never mind a t7 one

[wraith glacier]

Just because you don't have a T7 settlement doesn't mean you aren't lvl 70 and could use the T7 tools.

[ionic fog]

yall need to stop making absolute nonsense up to try and make an argument

[ionic fog]

we never stopped people from using them. people have been using them from the minute they went up

[sharp notch]

play the game instead of causing drama against us

[ionic fog]

your arguments are obviously in bad faith

[oblique pilot]

Why is fighting permitted in the feedback channel at all?

[ionic fog]

they aren't, which is why i'm telling them to stop stirring up drama

[sharp notch]

no idea, they keep attacking is for whatverer reason

[ionic fog]

i'm not attacking anyone, i'm pointing out lies

[oblique pilot]

You think it seems to matter whether your statements are true or false.
You're not providing feedback on the topic, you're doing something entirely irrelevant.

[raven lynx]

This thread turning into fight club is exactly why I made a seperate one with genuine feedback regarding the issues that I assumed caused all this to begin with.

[wraith glacier]

Holding people off from the T7 stations sounds like trying to corner the market on T7 tool sales, which is poor behavior and will open people up to bad mouthing you. Don't be upset about it. Own the fact that this is probably what the intention was.

[sharp notch]

I already explained that we locked the stations off to prevent trolls from 2 groups from flooding our stations preventing us from using them

[native gust]

I am sure people that were blocking off stations were getting paid from outsiders to upgrade their tools. There are plenty of players above 70 that don't have access to T7 stations.

[sharp notch]

yes, we let people use them if they ask (when they were locked ofc, they're open to everyone now)

[oblique pilot]

Absolute clownfest, the lot of you. 😒

[wraith glacier]

If you let people use them if they ask, then I don't see the issue. Not sure how this can be proven/disproven one way or another outside of word of mouth. But I'm not in your region so idk what goes on there. I'm just reading this from an outside perspective.

[fresh flint]

dev already said locking off stations is allowed, the reason doesn’t matter

[wraith glacier]

And that's fine if the devs say that is okay, and that's fine if the empire wants to do it. But don't be upset about the backlash. You are inviting it.

[plush hare]

Devs said road griefing and thieving chests are allowed, people are still not gonna be happy about it though

[native gust]

But imo blocking off stations should not be allowed. I foresee this game to be a cozy mmo social game. I don't personally see it as a hardcore game but I understand if people want to play it that way, everyone will eventually be T10, the only thing that will be left is how great is your reputation is.

[ionic fog]

some people would rather be first to T10 than have a good reputation though

[fresh flint]

🤷‍♂️

[ionic fog]

the fact is that regardless of what a game is designed to be, there will always be different sorts of players

you can't just say "people should play one way" and expect everything to be sunshine and roses

[sharp notch]

we just need a proper permission system to block off trolls
this will get much worse in release when the game will be free

[lofty hornet]

Doesnt even make sense given nobody was far enough ahead to even take advantage of it. It was private for like 4 days, nobody actually made money off of it

The only way cornering the market like that would work currently is if you had a degen hunter that got so far ahead of all of the other hunters that you have a monopoly on the tier. Every claim thats pushing is about to get xp gated by hunter so well all be equal tier by t8. t9 is going to be a game of "who gets the first 80 hunter?" Or a solo hunter hits it first and then sells themselves, either to everyone or they sell their exclusivity to make cornering the market possible. Even then the gains are minimal since the demand for that tier of resources is going to be very very low and probably wouldnt be worth what it would cost to buy that exclusivity.

[onyx flame]

Unfortunately the devs have said road griefing and thieving chests are allowed. As well as walling stuff off like this. Basically anythign that can be player mitigated is allowed behaviour apparently.

This changes the entire vibe to approach the game with imho. Im fine to roll with that now its confirmed - they've basically said its up to players to enforce it.

in fact using th word griefing is obsolete in these cases

[raven lynx]

I mean this creates a whole other problem with lack of logs for storage use and such; basically having to penalize everyone's storage permissions in a settlement in the event of a theft. (Unless it's a settlement with friends or trusted individuals.)

[fresh flint]

indeed

[onyx flame]

going to be some eve like shnanigans with someone working up then stealing everything using their house

and teleporting away

lol

[devout girder]

How is trying to corner a market (which tortuga didn't do) with something only you have access to poor behavior?

[devout girder]

Also tortuga didn't hold anyone off from t7 stations, they were more than free to go make them themselves

[ionic fog]

oh my god shut up

[devout girder]

There already exist cozy mmo social games, this is a grindy mmo social game

[oblique pilot]

<@&564286519192584239> Repeated rule breaking by several users in this channel.

Do not bring in-game drama to the official BitCraft Discord server.

[ionic fog]

this was supposed to be a thread about the game design of a social sandbox, why do the tortuga people keep making it about them

[ionic fog]

"cozy social mmo" is LITERALLY the branding that clockwork labs use for bitcraft

[onyx flame]

didnt you hear, its albion online now

get griefed

(yes im being somehwat facetious)

[fresh flint]

I dont see having empires competing as being cozy, at least they made it opt-in.

[devout girder]

Sure they say cozy and everyone is like that means I should have access to everything any builds. They also say free trade economy, Those typically are driven by how one can control the market

[dull furnace]

there are sometimes contradictions between what devs say and what they do. but I hope bitcraft stays cozy despite everytihng

[gray trail]

Keep in mind, a behavior not being in need of moderation doesn't mean it's the intended gameplay experience. We are wanting to develop new systems to help players better protect their builds and items, among other things to help mitigate the amount of unresolveable conflict.

[onyx flame]

Fully understood, looking forward to see where we go from here

theres going to be alot of weird edge cases

[gray trail]

Yup. When we say something is allowed by the game, it's usually a case of "we need to design better systems to prevent this" rather than having to spend all our developer time trying to moderate issues caused by a lack of good design

[vapid tulip]

100%! engineered controls are better than administrative controls

i hope the outcome will end up being systems that alleviate all the excuses being presented, e.g. limited crafting capacity of stations, etc.

[lofty hornet]

[gray trail]

He's catching up!

[lofty hornet]

if he surpasses you he gets your position

[gray trail]

[sonic wigeon]

16,513 👀

[shy agate]

Hunting feeds to attract animals would be a cool feature

[quick fulcrum]

Would be nice to have devs take a stance and just make blocking off players officially endorsed by adding a system in-game to truly blacklist players.

It's a lil annoying that right now you can't do it to specific players and would alienate most of the playerbase if you wanted to prevent specific people access to your stations.

I'm sure tortuga feels the same way

[ionic fog]

yes, but systems are harder to implement than just making a statement in discord

like, voxel and tyler have said they want to implement systems, but that's gonna take time

[primal lagoon]

wait, if I spam enough does that mean I get to join the company? Challenge accepted

[quick fulcrum]

I get that, but even the statement of saying it's coming would be helpful so that settlements have to think twice before deciding to douse their rep in gasoline for clout.

[ionic fog]

i think they intentionally don't want to state what is coming or when until they can commit to it.

that's why we get "this is on our radar." or "we have ideas about this" -type responses

[quick fulcrum]

Fair enough, I'm interested in which direction they decide to go with because it's pretty clear that not all players are on the same page atm.

[primal lagoon]

yeah, this is one of those pivital points I think that sorta decides what the goal of the game is. This alone won't decide if I play on release but it's for sure gonna be one of the big pieces in that decision

[ionic fog]

yea this message really spoke to how i feel about things #1396010857082781797 message

[vapid tulip]

i think bitcraft should aim to truly stand out from the rest--forget open world sandbox survival craft pvp mmo, there's a million of those already!

let's make the first-ever PAPvP mmo: Passive Aggressive Player vs. Player

you can't attack another player directly, but you sure can frustrate them! gaslight, gatekeep, and air your grievances publicly in global chat! equip your character with plausible deniability, master all of your favorite logical fallacies and engage in disingenuous arguments in this groundbreaking new mmo

[fast ice]

I for one would like to see some sort of economical resource 'warfare'. I see comments talking about how this game should be social, yet I now for one just go near a settlement that has a resource I want, gather, process and tp out without ever interacting with anyone in that settlement. I simply don't need to.

If I had no permissions for stations I would be forced so socialise, be it ask for permission, contribute or pay to use it. My favourite case would be that I would be able to just buy that resource from the settlement owners.

I say let settlements lock access, force interactions and enable an economy or trading local resources for distant ones.

[primal lagoon]

I lot of this would be accomplished via making home tele less OP as well. If you had to negotiate for bulk trades or spend long enough there to process a shipment worth shipping manually that would encourage if not demand a lot of socialization

[lofty hornet]

somebody pin this

[sharp notch]

oh that sounds like a great idea
it's basically a sandbox game with social elements
wonder if we could make a simpler name to describe it though, something along the lines of "sandbox social game"
wonder why nobody thought of doing that before tbh

[faint owl]

If bitcraft's aim was to mimic real life civilation and we as automatas are to rebuild the world, I can see how far we've mimicked it (anger jealousy war) LOL

[subtle hawk]

Will we ever get the ability to close our own gates?

[fresh flint]

#1396010857082781797 message

[subtle hawk]

Good

[deep badge]

hunting would feel better if it auto grabbed the body so long as you're within range. i enjoy hunting broadly but chasing them around when there are many hostiles in the area/ needing to go pick up every single body and within 60 seconds so nobody else has the chance to steal it is kind of a pain when every single other profession just pops into your backpack/cart/personal cache nearby

[undone oasis]

let's work on the design document brother, we're going to be rich

[jovial blade]

+1 The ability to blacklist players from using stations. Player/Settlement/Empire.

If this is the direction they want to take the game, they should fully support it.

[hollow ingot]

Extra context: Only one project was allowed per bench in Alpha1/2. The Public/open bench system allows all of us to have our 'own' projects.

In A2, I could join an open recruitment claim, finish a project left on their bench and claim it. I only ever claimed a project once, and felt terrible since I had no way to put the materials into their storage (cause, no storage perms by default). I ended up making a package and dropping it, in the hopes they would recover it before it decayed (packages lasted 24 hours back then on the ground). This is why the new group craft has the limitations it does(I assume). I can now resume my helpful explorer ways that I enjoyed in A2, and nobody has to fear some random traveler will walk into their base and take their stuff off their benches.

But uh... on topic? thoughts: I liked the idea of designating a claim on the map as having 'closed' benches. Just having an easy lock doodle on a bench for owners to flip on and off or add permissions to would ease the fencing QoL issue of move/move back, move/move back game play loop. Having those switches visible from the map (like tier is currently) would be fun. Help cut down on lost time and TP energy to show up to a place you hoped would serve you but, turns out they don't serve my kind here.

These in-game mechanics of locking benches would also push us past the current other issues that can crop up with 'fencing our buildings in fine' arguments. If I fence in a waypoint to trap players, is that my right to do so or should it constitute a 'grief' like action? Same with the Marketplace and bank; I have items stored there, is it okay for the claim owner to deny me access to my items? What if I started a project on a workbench, but it was moved behind a fence and was told I can no longer access my 100 ingot project? Can I fence in a player? They are on my claim, after all.

I'm currently against a blacklist of players option. This just invites more use of alts, finding ways to workaround the limits and encourages sabotage, imo. It also gives credence to more full PvP options arguments, since the only way to deconstruct 'unfair' or 'laws/rules' we disagree with is violence (That was a fun bit earlier in the thread, whew!). I'm with Voxel, where Dev priority should be finding more ways for us to play and have fun together in the sandbox, rather than stake out our corners and hit each other with our sand shovels if people look at our sandcastle wrong.

That all said; I look forward to housing permissions being expanded and that being applied to chests... and maybe benches?

[ivory umbra]

your discussion of what may constitute griefing has a real example now - #1398407267656663263 message looks someone specifically extended a claim to wall in someone's trader stand

[vast barn]

But why solve your own problems with the tools given to you by the game when you can instead whine and cry about not having T7 and pretend this is about the health of the game on Discord?

At least, that's how most of this thread has felt like to me... but maybe I'm just a more independent person than a lot of other people here

[valid ginkgo]

From experience, people tend to like to complain but it only takes one person with enough spite/motivation to bring together peiple who are dissatisifed with something like this to push onward and compete

This aint my battle to fight, but to me the answer is clear

[vast barn]

its just really weird to me since i've never felt like i was ever entitled to something that someone else made, no matter how cooperative we are being. this is true even within my own settlement

[valid ginkgo]

Different mindsets from sifferent people

[vast barn]

I guess so. At the end of the day though I want things to be cozy just like everyone else

[hollow ingot]

This is disingenuous to the 'whiners' frustrations. Also, you are now whining about whiners. Thus opening the door for the vicious cycle to continue.

Entitlement works both ways; as we see with the 'very bad support' feedback thread. This is why dissecting the feelings of entitlement can be useful. We discover what the mechanical pain point is and see if there is an amicable solution.

Besides, it's EA and a video game. Appealing to the Makers is a tool given to us; to potentially add more tools into the game to confront the 'problem'. Just as arguing against those arguments is our tool to dissuade additional tools we may dislike being added. Cozy may be our declared shared goal, but a Palia player's Cozy may not be the same as a Haven & Hearth's Cozy.

To expand on the bench lock idea; This would stop new projects from being started. That way an in progress project could be finished, but feelsbadman for the carpenter that just finished stripping wood or any other material that cannot be easily packaged and transported away from the lockdown. I suppose a sophisticated bench lock could still allow packaging, depending how cozy versus limiting we wanted the mechanic to be.

[shy agate]

id never say haven and hearth is cozy due to the playerbase, if you start late in a wipe you are likely to run into someone dropping slurs at you for moving nearby them