Leafcoats - New faction (Early Access)

[hidden cape]

i'll have to check later

ground one worked

[torpid patrol]

Yeah, I ran a quick run myself. While they do visit the Observation Terrace, they seem reluctant to do so. (Opting to visit basically anything else first) And the only Contemplation Spot being used was the 1 I had on the ground, none of the others in the tree.

So there is something weird going on here.

Okay, I think I have Local Access set wrong on the Contemplation Spot.

[hidden cape]

Ya the observation terrace well being is fine

I'm glad I removed my early game play contemplation spots, i may never have seen this

[astral ermine]

got by me since i have so many on the ground in my play haha

[hidden cape]

Right, I started reworking some stuff I did early on to make it more aesthetically pleasing. Dumped all the ground ones since I had so many tree versions. Checked my well being randomly and it was zero

[torpid patrol]

Well, I'm gonna try and fit it ASAP then

there, that looks better.

Also I changed a couple of icons

well, more than a couple

Yes, I know there's still more to do.

Campfire -> Garden and Triple Medical Bed.

[hidden cape]

Wasn't intended to be an asap thing. Just reporting it

[torpid patrol]

Fixed ASAP doesn't necessarily mean updated ASAP.

[torpid patrol]

but as you can see, I fixed it.,

[torpid patrol]

how does the observation terrace icon look?

[astral ermine]

can see it maybe being confusing for someone who doesnt know what it is.

[torpid patrol]

Hopefully it's more of a hint on how you're supposed to place it

[hidden cape]

At first glance I wasn't sure about the icon but if you're clicking through the icons in there it makes sense

[astral ermine]

could see what you were going for no doubt

[torpid patrol]

Removed the Greenery Need effect from Hedge Path. If you can just build free paths and get a need, it's a free need, and too powerful.
Updated terrain block to match vanilla factions.
Added Arch Banner
Fixed Branch Contemplation Spot.
Updated a few more icons.

[astral ermine]

just built and got used almost right away 🙂

[torpid patrol]

It broke to an incomplete change I made for Version 1.0.5.0

in any case, I think all my icons should be updated now.

[torpid patrol]

So, thoughts on all the new icons.
and are there any other icons you think I should change/update?

and any changes I made that you don't like too.

[hidden cape]

I'd have to look at another time but from what I remember they look good

[torpid patrol]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqJrIGwF5Y8&list=PLelipWd9VJGoy3ispFMnhmxZvZ6Ph65Rb&index=11

It's that time of the week again.

aaah Reet Peeps!

[astral ermine]

already watched. but totally read that in his voice

[acoustic yarrow]

Jump scared myself. I toggled back to an old Chrome tab which auto-loaded and then at top volume played "ahhh Reet Peeps!"

[torpid patrol]

x3

Done that myself a few times.

[torpid patrol]

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1062090/view/515229743889516084

I'm so excited to be nominated as a contestant.

[desert rover]

You deserve it!

[torpid patrol]

While I do believe that, how many others on the list also deserve it?

[desert rover]

It was a difficult choice to make.

[torpid patrol]

Yes. that's why I didn't vote for a modder.

I could vote for myself, but, that list is made of of good modders.

Though there was 1 name I didn't recognise.

Probably because everyone else on the list has helped me at some point. well, I don't remember if normanr has helped me, but, he's a good dude too.

[desert rover]

I didn't vote for a twitcher because... well... I don't do twitch. /laughs

The youtuber who introduced me to Timberborn wasn't on the list, but at least I have seen some of them.

[torpid patrol]

Same. I only voted for Youtube and Map editor

I didn't recognise many from the youtube list either.

[desert rover]

Me either, tbh.

KatherineOfSky was the one who introduced me to Timberborn, back in the very early days.

I've been out of the loop for about 3-4 months... do EmberPelts and LeasfCoats have wonders?

[torpid patrol]

Emberpelts do, Leaf Coats doesn't yet.

[desert rover]

I'm achievement hunting so I have been forced to play FT and IT to get a number of them.

[torpid patrol]

Leaf Coats is probably at about the phase of Emberpelts when it was first released. Mostly complete but missing a few things.

I released Leaf Coats when I did because I was burned out and needed a break from modding.

So it was less complete than Emberpelts was when I first released it.

[desert rover]

Yeah. It was around that time I stepped away form Timberborn for a while as well.

[torpid patrol]

Leaf Coats is also way more ambitious than Emberpelts. So many new models, rather than just recolouring vanilla items.

[desert rover]

You know I love them both.

[torpid patrol]

So it's taking a lot longer to develope

[desert rover]

Well worth the wait.

Between your two and Lapan's WhitePaws, I have no more interst in the default clans. 😛

[torpid patrol]

I've barely looked into white paws.
While I admit what he's accomplished is impressive, the play style was a bit too different for me to get into it.

I'm sure I could with time.

But I've been too busy working on my own factions to have even played Folktails or IronTeeth since U6.

[desert rover]

It is brutal. But I love the challenge.

[worn ivy]

Frankly, I was surprised that Zeddic was on the list, being a smaller channel.

[desert rover]

A number of the achievements require one or the other.

[torpid patrol]

if I load FT or IT, it's usually to test something with one of my mods.

[torpid patrol]

I'm sure I'll have to play them when V1 comes out.

[desert rover]

I'm at 41 /59 achievements right now. Done with FT, but still doing IT. As soon as I have all the IT specific, I'll probably do the rest with EmberPelts (since LeafCoats doesn't have its wonder yet).

[desert rover]

I -just- discovered that "Convenient Large Water Wheel" does not count for the waterwheel-only power achievements.

EDIT: my mistake

[torpid patrol]

as far as the game is concerned, should be the same as a normal large power wheel.

so I think that achievement is limited to the non-large power wheel.

[desert rover]

10,000 in power without lager power wheels? I -suppose- it is doable.

Nevermind

My bad

I misread an achievement.

It -IS- working for the achievement that it is supposed to work for.

[harsh fern]

Bobbing deserves the award, because it's not just one new faction, it's two good ones and both amazing.

While I enjoy lapan's whitepaws and it's extensive tech tree, but let's be honest so few people actually play that mod, while emberpelts is everywhere and leafcoats picking up.

Emberpelts/leafcoats should be integrated into the game, bobbing should be paid for his work when they integrate it..

[desert rover]

I had misread this one and thought it was water, not walker:

[torpid patrol]

that might be why

[torpid patrol]

Thanks.

Though it's not just me vs Lapan, you also have to consider the great work by others too.
Luke has made so many script based mods, and others like Knatte Anke, while probably haven't made much new in the past year, have maintained their library.

I already forgot who else is on the list.

Me, Lapan, Luke, Knatte Anke, Normanr, Tobbert... and 2 others.

The Blood Eyes. I've not interacted with them much, and... Opolame?

Opolame did the more tunnels, and overhang levees.

[worn ivy]

Blood Eyes was the primary maintainer of TimberAPI,

[harsh fern]

He was and I understand from a technical point a lot of other mods won't work without base work done by likes of luke or blood eyes, but from the point of view of the voters (which are end users of mods) they don't get to see what happens in the background.

I don't mean to be rude or take away from their work

But likely it's modders who provide end use mod will be winning it

[rain spire]

You should make the leaves start to wither

What if the power was obtained from leaf like solar panels? Like photosynthesis

[torpid patrol]

hmmm

[rain spire]

I don’t really know if that works but I had the idea. Then I read more into the thread and realized might not work???

[torpid patrol]

I mean, it could work, but, sun in the game is kinda reliable, so all it would really do is reduce the need for food

would probably be fairly complex to try and write it in.

and if you tried to just implement it as them being happy in the sun, it's basically just a free wellbeing point.

So while in theory you could make the mechanic work, probably not a good idea

[torpid patrol]

let me rephrase slightly. Not sure it would be a good game mechanic.

And then you have to worry about, how exactly do you determine if the sun is shining? Time of day?

what about weather mods, people would then complain they have a sun buff when it's raining, but to try and tie into "What's the weather like?" in another mod, it might end up being a dependency, and I don't really want to force you to use other people's mods. Ideally I like as few dependencies as possible, so when something goes wrong, I don't have to be dependant on the other people fixing the other mods.

If it's possible to implement it without a dependency, then perhaps I'd look into it, but still.
While it's a neat idea, it wouldn't make such a good game mechanic, so I'm not sure it's worth the effort.

[torpid patrol]

not sure if it's any good, but, early leafcoats roof idea.

wait.

I just realised I made a mistake with things.

I copied my Shrub and Hedge into the Plants V1 blender file, and updated them for the V1 way of doing things.

Then when I redesigned the hedge and shrub for merging, used the version in the LeafCoats Blender file, the U7 models, that don't animate.

Whoops.

[torpid patrol]

they do waggle, they just don't waggle correctly.

[rain spire]

It kinda looks like a rice farmer hat🤣

It looked good though

[hidden cape]

Ya I was thinking this as an alternative to the images I sent earlier but thought it might be hard to emulate

This is kind of what your idea is. Which looks good

[hidden cape]

Jormungandr. my newest leafcoats map and inspiration. more to come

[hidden cape]

Housing Unit: has the stair rails but not rungs

they can still access, just seems to be a texture thing

this one is two high just to see (for science) if they could access because i know they can access from one space away using a ladder below

[torpid patrol]

That is odd. I'll look into it.

note, when I made the beaver plants, the dead plant has to stem, even though I modelled it.

you are right. Regular housing unit has to steps

Somehow, nobody has noticed this since the initial release of Leaf Coats until now.

[hidden cape]

this is why i like testing things

i was simply trying to figure out if i need to put in a ladder and noticed it

[torpid patrol]

Well, I'll add the steps in next update. Already fixed the model.

[outer python]

I noticed, just didn't comment on it. Figured we just had a few beavers who liked the fireman's pole style

One other thought I've had recently - for these ones that have an "entrance" gap, it might make more sense to just make them a pac-man shape and that a entrance a truly empty voxel? You could always build a platform there if you want, but there's so many 2-tall things (zipline access, small storages, etc) that I often find myself with something sticking up and no great way to get back to flat without just using a layer of the declaration dummy blocks.

(one thing that does fit nicely, is the double-high 3-hammock medical bed, since it can stick up "under" the built-in platform)

[torpid patrol]

A bit late to remove the platform now though, if you do it will cause anything built on top of the building you're modifying to collapse.

most of the newer buildings I just put 4 auto-walls on them.

The designs of these with the doorway arch were mostly done before I changed the way branch access was designed.

It's why if you compare some of the things I made first like District Center, Housing, and even the Large Water Pump have an access archway to the door, where things that came later like the Badwater Rig just have 4 identical sides, where branches can connect.

Since I'd changed the way Pathing works by then, it didn't need the arch anymore.

[outer python]

True, changing it isn't very backward-compatible

yeah, the inconsistent look of having various holes in the trunk is part of what's bothering me.

I wonder, could it still be solid on top without occupying anything in the voxel (i.e. let a 2-tall block from below stick up into the archway, but still keep the platform "lintel" and support what's above?

[torpid patrol]

I'm not sure I'd even want to try to replace it with a solid wall, because it would overlap with other things like Paths or Braziers that could have been built in them, and if I change it, does the path, or medical bed go away, or does the rest of the building?

[torpid patrol]

Maybe, not sure.

[outer python]

the thing I keep finding myself wanting to do is stack the unwanted opening over a protruding zipline access or small storage (the way you already can over the 2-tall medical beds, but the zipline/storage don't let you do that

[torpid patrol]

if they're 2 tall gaps, try something decorative.

or useful, like medical beds, like you said.

[outer python]

yeah, but what I get is two one-tall gaps, both platformed

[torpid patrol]

Part of the intention was for you to put things like the medical bed in those gaps.

[outer python]

so it can't be stairs, or most decorations

it's not exactly a big problem, just a minor frustration of sometimes wishing the intemediate platform wasn't there

[torpid patrol]

unfortunately the gap tends to be 1 block tall if you're stacking buildings, and most decorations are 2 blocks tall.

[outer python]

it's not really bad though, just part of the tetris of this faction 😛

[torpid patrol]

being able to stack is already easy mode. Don't want to make it too easy.

[outer python]

how to not end up with useless holes

[torpid patrol]

Some people have been asking for things to be less rigidly designed too

so, not just the 3x3 circle

Like, lets take the medium storages for example. They have the rounded corners, and solid middle piece.

People have been asking for a version where the 2 end tiles are solid squares too.

so you can arrange them to make a 5x3 tree, or even a 5x5 tree.

and concave walls

[outer python]

I don't know how hard your levee model merging was to implement, but maybe it could just work like that? If you put another tree structure next door, things visually join (with no change to gameplay balance)?

instead of making a zillion variations of all the models with permutations of round/square ends.

the curved ends are already all just blank walls

so you'd basically just sub in the treetrunk side block model to square it out

[torpid patrol]

Lots of parts.

[outer python]

Yeah, didn't know if you could just draw over a "false front"

[torpid patrol]

Some things like housing could use generic blocks, I guess, others like storages would need to be more dynamic.

they have custom parts, they have custom storage layouts too

[outer python]

not make variations of all the curved models, just draw two square sides "in front" of it

[torpid patrol]

I doubt I could make the storage model work custom.

[outer python]

squaring out the corner

[torpid patrol]

I'm not sure I can even have 1 square corner, 1 rounded corner, and flip would work.

[acoustic yarrow]

If you want to change buildings in an incompatible way, then one way is to add a brand new building and hide the old one from the bottom bar (by ||marking it as a devmode tool||)

[outer python]

the big (2x1) Gravity battery seems have the wrong construction model (seems to be the one for the tree-corner gravity battery)

[torpid patrol]

hmmm

I can fix that easy enoguh

[outer python]

Not a big deal, but I also figured it was likely just a copy&paste typo somewhere, since the stock model should have already had its "under construction" model

It just confused me for a sec, thinking I had actually built the wrong one

[outer python]

Also seems like you can't power the grinder from below?

(or any of the others, but most of them don't have a flat bottom that would look like you could)

no problem if it's intentional, as you said these guys are already making verical stacking tremendously easy

[acoustic yarrow]

You probably can, but from the blocks that support it on the right

[outer python]

yeah, those were terrain blocks, I just used ||dev mode|| to make a clearer screenshot

[torpid patrol]

Yeah, that's intentional. I could have put some slope on the bottom, but it's hard enough to do on something with a flat side, that has a lot of detail on the side and would look wrong.

[rain spire]

What’s the best map for leafcoats?

[hidden cape]

Anything with height. Lots of the player made maps work well

Flat maps like thousand Island have little entertainment when building vertically

[lavish kindle]

Does the Tree Murderer debuff go away after a while?

If I place two buildings next to each other with matching entries, like two warehouses, can the beavers pass directly from one to the next?

[hidden cape]

If they stop cutting down trees

[merry sinew]

Not without a branch, Zipline or ground path.

If you want storage silos attached though even a one tile branch connecting is enough

[torpid patrol]

if you don't re-apply the debuff, it goes away after 2 days.

[lavish kindle]

Thanks. And I figured out the warehouse question

[torpid patrol]

okay

[torpid patrol]

I already know what everyone is going to be thinking before I do anything else.

"Does this auto-merge like everything else?"

Maybe...

I'm still dabbling with the design, it's not finished yet.

[rain spire]

The leaves look a little mosaic like. Don’t know if that’s what your going for but it works😄

[hidden cape]

Looks good. Assuming the roofs will include 2x1 etc when modeling is done?

[lavish kindle]

Can someone explain the pruning flag to me? The map I am playing (terraces) only has wild birch that is presently accessible (I already cleared the Pine in the starting area), but when I place the pruning flag, it tells me "nothing to do in range".

[astral ermine]

they dont prune birch

[lavish kindle]

Is it only willow that can be pruned?

[astral ermine]

willow and eucalyptus

[lavish kindle]

yeah, only willow for branches.

[astral ermine]

birch are only good for a quick log

[lavish kindle]

Ok, I was confused because it says "prunes wild plants", I assumes it only worked with pre-existing plants

Yeah

I had seen the Willow and Eucalyptus earlier, but promptly forgot about them when I needed branches

[lavish kindle]

@torpid patrol Have you considered making your Observation terrace similar to the IT Hydroponic Garden, but with a ring of seating extending one square further out? I think that would work better than the current and it would also let you continue adding to the building.

I am pretty sure this is related to removing loosened dirt.

[torpid patrol]

The current one hangs from the middle of a branch.

that log is so long, I don't think I can even see where the exception is

[lavish kindle]

Yeah, it took me a while to figure it out, but I did. Just got that same crash a second time.

[torpid patrol]

you're getting path mesh marker issues, install either the No more path mesh warning mod, or Nomanr's Vertical Path Mesh mod.

[lavish kindle]

Pretty sure I have both installed. Let me check

[torpid patrol]

hmmmm, when is it crashing exactly? because that error doesn't look familiar

[lavish kindle]

Yeah, I have both. It is crashing when removing loosened dirt. Not instantly when I tell it to remolish, but when it does the removal. At least I assume so, it happened twice shortly after asking it to demolish some dirt. It has worked fine previously, though.

[torpid patrol]

You should only use 1, not both.

[lavish kindle]

ok

[torpid patrol]

hmmmmm

I'm not sure why it would be crashing.

The only time I know it crashes is if you collapse something (remove dirt at the bottom of a large stack of dirt and buildings) that has a Loosened Dirt pile in it somewhere.

[lavish kindle]

Just happened again, this time I tried demolishing them one at a time rather than the bunch. These are not stacked, just a single layer.

[torpid patrol]

It's weird that your log file is massive.

send me another one, just the exception file

[lavish kindle]

Well, crap. I tried using Dev mode to just delete the loosened dirt, and it still crashed. Same error.

[torpid patrol]

doesn't seem to be an issue for me

I'm still doing my multiplayer gaming session, so I can't really do any debugging right now, but, if it works for me, it's probably something in your setup.

what's the game version you're on?

probably 1.0.6.0, which should be fine.

[lavish kindle]

1.06

My guess is thatthe save got corrupted somehow or something, because nothing I do can seem to remove those blocks.

Does "There is already an entry for..." imply that it is already marked for removal?

[acoustic yarrow]

Vertical Path Mesh is already present. It shows that the errors are for the 0000 mesh.

[torpid patrol]

ah

[torpid patrol]

not sure. it suggests there's already rubble there.

[acoustic yarrow]

There's still an edge case I haven't identified where it tries to use the staircase renderer with no (horizontal) connections

@lavish kindle Can you post a screenshot of what's at (60, 140, 14)

[lavish kindle]

give me a minute

[acoustic yarrow]

TImprove has an option to display the coordinates (if you don't have that option already enabled)

[lavish kindle]

Pretty sure I know exactly where it is.

[acoustic yarrow]

I'm guessing the top of a ladder stack?

[lavish kindle]

I have that option enabled but it is not displaying.

It is the top of that ladder

Actually, no, the bottom of those two ladders

[acoustic yarrow]

could you screen shot with the navigation mesh visible (just have a path selected)

[torpid patrol]

Are those the loose dirt you're trying to demolish too?

[lavish kindle]

Yes

[torpid patrol]

so they're on top of sluices

[lavish kindle]

Yes

[torpid patrol]

I don't know if that'll have an effect or not

[lavish kindle]

Certainly could be the issue. It works in Vanilla, but could certainly be the issue here.

I mean bombing dirt works in vanilla, obviously you don't then gather the dirt afterwards.

[acoustic yarrow]

hmm, I can't reproduce with IT, let me switch to LC

[torpid patrol]

lets see what happens

[acoustic yarrow]

:Kaboom:

[torpid patrol]

Honestly, the only solution I can think of to fix this is just if the loose dirt doesn't drop dirt items.

I mean, I'd probably need a longer stack trace to figure that out, it's not even pointing to my function that generates the good stack

at a wild guess... It's generating the good stack, positioning and registering it, then trying to move it again in the same tick.

[lavish kindle]

Could you check to make sure the result is on the ground, and if not, just delete it?

[torpid patrol]

The game doesn't like it when you register an entity, and try to unregister and reregister it in the same tick

[torpid patrol]

I probably could, but, I tried doing something like that before and it made it unstable

not that it's entirely stable now

[lavish kindle]

Yeah. The only other option I could see is just make it so you can't build dirt on structres in LC, but that doesn't really seem like a good solution, either.

[torpid patrol]

Like I said, because of all these issues is why I'm just leaning towards loose dirt just not dropping dirt.

[lavish kindle]

Sad, I really like that feature... But I agree that losing it makes sense if that is the only option.

[torpid patrol]

actually...

lets comment that out

[lavish kindle]

That is the way that I have always said that explosives should be handled

[torpid patrol]

what, give dirt?

[lavish kindle]

Yeah, explosives leave dirt that must be gathered before it can be used, rather than just vaporizing it.

Essentially exactly how explsives work in the real world.

[acoustic yarrow]

ugh, so path nav issue happens when path is going down (i.e. district center is at the top end of the ladder), and there's only 1 way out at the bottom

(ironically, placing a path at the bottom of the ladder fixes the issue)

[torpid patrol]

oh, right, yeah. Leaf Coats don't auto-path

[torpid patrol]

okay, this seems to work, maybe.

[lavish kindle]

Found another little bug. That is a fermenter sitting on top of the metal grinder. It does not properly connect to the path.

[torpid patrol]

hmm

[lavish kindle]

I remember a simmilar issue on U7 experimental with your Extra Large Indutrial Pile

[torpid patrol]

the classic "no Block Object Nav Mesh Settings Spec with Generate Floors On Stackable flag"

[lavish kindle]

Heh

[torpid patrol]

basically, if you can build on top of a building, that building should have this.

[astral ermine]

classic...yup...

haha

[torpid patrol]

I'm just thinking what I can do about the Rubble

does it look silly?

[hidden cape]

i kinda like it

[astral ermine]

same

[hidden cape]

it gives both thatched vibes and leaf vibes

[torpid patrol]

still kinda wip

but that would be a 1 edge merge

[obsidian tinsel]

i tried oasis with these guys and i was struggling to produce food on the map before my berries ran out.

[torpid patrol]

You need to plant Grapes ASAP. and maybe Dandelions and a Fermenter.

they take a bit of time to grow, but once grown, produce crops about 3 times as fast as berries. I think it's slightly faster than 3 times.

There's 1 slight problem with the auto-roof...

how do you know the difference between a Corner of an L line, and the corner of a square.

I'm going to have to model both either way.

[hidden cape]

just for confirmation, decoration bushes are a random of 1 of 3 colors?

[torpid patrol]

Shrubs, Yes.

[obsidian tinsel]

yeah it is definitely a rough start on oasis.

[hidden cape]

A poll I did says this is the preferred roof style

But the final rendering is your choice as the creator

[torpid patrol]

so, not imagine there's this on the end.

this is the hard one.

what do I put here?

This is where I said there'd be 2 variations

the M variation, where if you make a 2x2 square, the middle goes down, more ideal for an L shaped wall,

then the n variation , where it goes up and stays up, more ideal for the squares.

[torpid patrol]

so this is the type n

it felt like the easier of the 2 to do.

[hidden cape]

I like it. How does it look when you then stack another piece on top?

The slopes give a thatched look

[torpid patrol]

and this is M type

[hidden cape]

While the top is more green roof or living roof vibes

[torpid patrol]

well, these are designed to just be 1 tile high, so you'd end up with steps

[hidden cape]

I meant more the blending when you place another piece on top of the flat part

[torpid patrol]

well, you can't place one on top of the flat part, it's not designed like that.

[hidden cape]

Gotcha. Takes care of that 😄

[torpid patrol]

if you look at it from the side, this line is the top of the tile.

[hidden cape]

All in all it's very Scottish

[torpid patrol]

I suppose I should make more "Types" too

I think what you're asking for is like the half roof

these are more like the 1x1 roof

I can do more roof variations later.

[torpid patrol]

so... 1 or 2?

the 4 way n is basically just this.

[astral ermine]

seems less than ideal haha

[torpid patrol]

would only show up if you have a 3x3 (though corners can be missing)

hmmm

it assumes the corner is there

[astral ermine]

oh... thats just the end result of the "middle" bits of the roofs

[torpid patrol]

yes

[astral ermine]

right

[torpid patrol]

having it change dynamically is a fun mechanic, but...

could be useful to be able to place these of the specific one you want

also there's some variations missing.

specifically of the middle piece, for M/N hybrids

and T

what if you want M style at one side, but n style at the other?

[astral ermine]

ngl i'd be a sucker for the right one

haha

but options are always a good thing for decorative things

[torpid patrol]

There's already 9 variations, and I'm like, just for T there's a 10th (and flipped) and also another 2 for the + piece in the middle.

so 12 variations total.

those extra 3 pieces can't be done on the auto-neighbour system, because it only looks in 4 directions, up down left and right.

down, left, up, right.

I COULD make the variations fully dynamic with all 12, but I'd have to write a new script for 8 directions (add diagonals) and the original script isn't small.

and since it only does rotation, not flipping, may need a 13th for that flipped T.

[astral ermine]

⬆️ ⬆️ ⬇️ ⬇️ ⬅️ ➡️ ⬅️ ➡️ 🇧 🇦

😛

[torpid patrol]

heh

is it worth it... hmm

[astral ermine]

perhaps later

some functional options now is nice, that much if its gonna be a big pain doesnt seem worth tearing everything up to start over

[torpid patrol]

I'm just thinking, if I do this, I could implement it in other things later.

I mean, look at what happens if you do a 3x3 block of levees. they add those brown blocks to the corner of every levee piece, because it doesn't know if it's in the middle of a + or a square.

if it could know it's in the middle of a square, it could remove those brown pieces and go full White wood.

but would mean modelling all the extra variations.

Perhaps...

if instead of using whole blocks, it instead split it into block quarters

if you look at it, there's only 4 block quarters.

so in order of those screen shots.

you have an L connection, both edges, no corner.
you have an I connection, only 1 edge.
you have an O connection, no edges at all.
you have a Square connection, both edges and the corner.

So it only looks for the corner if you have both edges.

then the block can be dynamically constructed from these 4 quarter blocks.

though the 2nd one needs a flipped option

Though, 4 of the last would would result in a checkerboard pattern, where the planks constantly swap direction, as it's the same corner rotated to make all 4 corners.

It's options for the future anyway.

[hidden cape]

2, the extra bar seems excessive plus I like the focus on the "moss" like top

[torpid patrol]

mmhmm

[hidden cape]

been awhile since i did a generic folktails playthrough. i made a tester save. my point earlier was if you decide to make the roofs multilayered (not saying you should or need to) I would be interested to see how the green leafy parts mesh with a second layer

also did not realize the generic flat parts already had the green mossy parts

i like your thatch better, it gives more of a palm leaf/tropical feel

[torpid patrol]

Yeah, I'll consider things

[placid patrol]

are you going to make these roofs 2x2 or 3x3? Most tree towers will have a 3x3 footprint, no?

[worn ivy]

The current plan seems to be modular with connected textures.

[obsidian tinsel]

so i know it might be a big ask but could we get tubes with leaf coats? im a huge tube fan and would love to be able to use them with leaf coats

[lavish kindle]

It's possible to add things like that yourself by just editing their blueprints. It's not difficult, though I haven't done it since 0.7, so I don't know if my understanding is still current.

[obsidian tinsel]

ughhh how?

[lavish kindle]

I don't remember exactly, let me see if I can find it.

[obsidian tinsel]

thanks man

[lavish kindle]

Google gave me instructions, but I am almost certain that they are wrong with 1.0. My suggestion would be to ask in #🚀mod-users, one of eth more experienced users there probably can tell you. It's not hard, you just need to copy the existing blueprint file and edit to add Leaf coats.

[obsidian tinsel]

lol google told me to download emberpelts to get tubes.

[lavish kindle]

Well, it is strictly right. 😉

I normally prefer tubes, too, but ziplines really make sense for LC. You have figured out how you can zipline between buildings?

[obsidian tinsel]

yeah but i can also build tube bridges

[lavish kindle]

Yeah.

[obsidian tinsel]

also i plane to make my trees more a row of trees

have tiny tubes going to each floor

so it would be like 3 "trees" in a row with one end being tinytubes stations going up and the other end being the 4 beaver house. the middle bits are workshops and storage

[lavish kindle]

@torpid patrol Suggestion: A Spacer layer, that functions like a housing unit, but doesn't provide housing. Basically just a blank layer that you can build at the base of a tree as an entrance.

You can build them manually, but it's a PITA.

[torpid patrol]

Sounds like "Ain't nobody got time for that" logic.

[obsidian tinsel]

hey bob is there a posibilty of tubes for leafcoats?

[torpid patrol]

I'm not going to make that mod, but there's no reason why you can't just include IT's tubes in Leaf Coats.

I believe Luke has a mod that allows you to do that.

I believe it's called Configurable Faction

[obsidian tinsel]

word i tried configurable ziplines and tubes i will check that one out and see if it works thnks man

[torpid patrol]

Hope it works for you~

[obsidian tinsel]

darn, it hasnt been updated to 1.0 yet

[lavish kindle]

@torpid patrol It's noy only that I don't have time for it, though that is some of it. I can't replicate the functionality, only sort of ballpark it. I can add this, but because of the ladder, it is only accessible from three sides, and it doesn't look as good as a single layer house does.

[torpid patrol]

hmmm

[lavish kindle]

Don't get me wrong, this is not a big deal. Just a "it would be nice if..."

And since all the functionality and modelling is already dome, sit should be easy... Just take the housing out of a house and it is done.

[obsidian tinsel]

whats the purpose of branches. i havnt figured out a reason to use them. like i get the branch bridges but the actual bronch block seems to not be used

[obsidian tinsel]

ooooo it only connects to the outside of the building if the door is there?

[torpid patrol]

Actually, putting it in the door is doing it wrong. Most buildings (not storages, not the stackable windmills) have connection spots on the side that they'll attach to.

[lavish kindle]

The upper one connects to the door, the lower one doesn't.

[obsidian tinsel]

aghhh ok i will mess with it more so i can figure it out

[lavish kindle]

The "windows" on housing units and the like are the connection points. The automatically become doors if they connect to a path.

[worn ivy]

Uh... What was up with that first bridge seemingly blocking any bridges below it?

[lavish kindle]

@obsidian tinsel

[obsidian tinsel]

my question wasnt about branch bridges. its about the 100 science branch block

[lavish kindle]

Oh, ok... I haven't figuired that one out either.

[obsidian tinsel]

hence me asking in here lol it seems like its jsut a path that costs resources

[lavish kindle]

Yeah, gotcha

[obsidian tinsel]

yeah i tried to use it all over the palce and still havnt figured it out.

[lavish kindle]

It doesn't seem to want to connect to anything but solid surfaces,

[astral ermine]

the oddball one that doesnt fit in like the others goes on the ground, not 'directly' attached to a tree

I forget the reasoning for it

and the branch bridges are just that, paths. that you can put observation posts and contemplation spots off of

can only attack 1 thing per tile space

[torpid patrol]

Trees in the way

[torpid patrol]

oh, right.
if you place a bridge that meets up with things like a cliff-side, it kinda looks a bit odd with no "Foundation" on the cliff, so you can tidy it up by placing the branch block on the cliff.

I have an example of this somewhere, one moment

honestly, I think it was MiGly that did the best example

see, you can do something like this, but it looks like the bridge is kinda just floating there.

or put the blocks at the end, that makes it look nicer, like there's a foundation.

[lavish kindle]

Neat, thank you.

[torpid patrol]

Keep in mind the original design wouldn't have branches directly linking up with paths, you'd need to have a "Branch Entrance" to be able to leave the branch directly onto a path, like you have to with Emberpelt's Walkways/Skybridges

I dropped that functionallity, but kept the design.

[lavish kindle]

I suggested a day or two ago making something like the IT Hydroponic farm as the observation deck. Better idea. Make something like that as a nightclub. Extend one square past the tree in all directions, so only the middle 9 squares need to be supported. The middle is the dance floor, with seating around the edges. And because it has a roof like the hydroponic farm, you can stack on top of them.

[torpid patrol]

hmm

[lavish kindle]

Ooh, I just discovered your number cruncher. I love it.

Much better use of geothermal than for power... I don't usually find it useful since it is not located conveniently on most maps. This makes it truly useful.

[obsidian tinsel]

oooo ok the name is just a bit confusing on its purpose

the observation post is weird to place early. to make it work with a tree you need to unlock branches so kinda feels wierd for it to be one of the 2 unlocked at the start

[lavish kindle]

Do you mean the observation terrace?

It can also be placed at the top of a building, you just need to build a ladder. So you don't absolutey need ladders, they are just an option.

[torpid patrol]

Yeah. Power generator is still available for those maps where it would be useful, like Oasis, but it gives you a useful alternative.

[lavish kindle]

Yeah. I am playing Thousand Islands today, and the only geothermal is on the far side of the map. Makes it useless.

[torpid patrol]

A bit of a trick way to do it, but, yeah, that works.

You can also put it on a platform, or a thin cliff formation, as long as you can access it from one of the sides.

[lavish kindle]

That was the only waay I initially thought they worked. I hadn't played with branches yet. You can understand why I was not really impressed with the observation terrace immediately, lol.

@torpid patrol I must say, though, I am really impressed with what you did with Leafcoats. Another hit out of the ballpark.

[obsidian tinsel]

yeah i agree with max this is a fantastic faction that is fun and unique

the way i had been using the observation terrence early is i just put it on ladders on the ground near a tree

it just still feels awkward with out branch bridges

[lavish kindle]

Can we get a branch variant that is not a path, just a platform, so we can build shrubs and the like on them?

[torpid patrol]

Thanks.

[torpid patrol]

also, that's why I moved it to the Tree Buildings tab, along with the Branches.

[lavish kindle]

Makes sense

[torpid patrol]

Yeah, that's on the to do list. I can't really do it until eMka releases the fix that deletes buildings on game load when built on certain platforms, like Branch Bridges and Tubeway Bridges.

[lavish kindle]

Gotcha

[torpid patrol]

to note, it wouldn't be the platform that gets deleted, it would be the things you build on the platform

[torpid patrol]

Okay, done more testing on this issue.,

I changed from using the RecoveredGoodStackFactory to the RecoveredGoodStackSpawner, and it seems to have fixed the problem.

the method is still crude, always drops all loot at coordinates 0,0,0 of the block object, but when using a 1x1 object like this, 0,0,0 is the only valid anyway, so, I'm shortcutting.

[torpid patrol]

Changed Contemplation Spots to be unlocked at the start, and Observation Terrace to cost 200 science to unlock. This change is because the Observation Terrace should be placed on a Branch Bridge that also needs to be unlocked, where the Contemplation Spot can be built without them.

I thought that change made sense.

[torpid patrol]

Feels weird to own a building that is locked.

I think I've made enough changes recently that I should publish them, even though I Haven't done the roof stuff yet.

[torpid patrol]

Removed a lot of Path Mesh Hider entries.
New Dependency: Vertical Nav Mesh. This mod will still work without it, but you really should get it to prevent the log file being spammed with warning messages.
Updated to correct versions of models for Garden and Shrubs.
Fixed Housing unit had no steps on it's ladder.
Added Ladder Tunnel.
Fixed Building on top of a metal grinder.
Changed Contemplation Spots to be unlocked at the start, and Observation Terrace to cost 200 science to unlock. This change is because the Observation Terrace should be placed on a Branch Bridge that also needs to be unlocked, where the Contemplation Spot can be built without them.

[lavish kindle]

Looks good, @torpid patrol

[torpid patrol]

It doesn't say it, but I actually added a Path Mesh Hider to one building.

[lavish kindle]

Is it possible to have a building on more than one menu list at once? If so, can I suggest copying the Tree Structure ladder so it appears both there and on the paths & structures menu? I am guessing this probably cannot be done, though.

[torpid patrol]

not in vanilla.

I think Luke's version of TimberAPI's "More Groups" option allows you to have it on more than one group at once.

[lavish kindle]

kk

[torpid patrol]

I'd need to look into it. And if I do use it, then it'd just be on both if you have the mod installed.

in theory

[lavish kindle]

Yeah. But that would not make it a dependency? It would work if it was installed, but if it wasn't, it would just work as normal?

[torpid patrol]

It's done with Blueprints.

Pretty sure if a Blueprint uses a spec that doesn't exist, it's just ignored.

[lavish kindle]

Handy

[torpid patrol]

May even be able to stick it on the building's blueprint itself.

[lavish kindle]

That would also let you include the Observation Terrace and contemplation spot both in Tree Structure and Well Being

[torpid patrol]

Yeah

[torpid patrol]

how do these new graphics look?

[hidden cape]

Looks good

Is that a cursed district crossing?

[torpid patrol]

cursed?

Before and After.

[hidden cape]

Lol I don't use districts. Once the game devs took out the restrictions I gave up on them. I just make the beavers run everywhere

[torpid patrol]

Why does the IT District Crossing have an FT style door?

which works for EP, but, LC like square doors

[hidden cape]

Good call on ladder tunnel

[lavish kindle]

@torpid patrol FYI, the new version does not prompt for an update on Mod.io. If you click on it, it shows the update available, but does not have an "update" button.

I also got a crash when I tried to install it. Missing dependency? (NM, false alarm)

Hmm, after rebooting, the others did show up. Not sure why they didn't the first time.

[torpid patrol]

Because steam is crap with updates?

[lavish kindle]

mod.io, though

[lavish kindle]

Interesting, you don't get a plant muderer debuff if you assissinate them with explosives.

Or I guess shovels in Leaf Coats lore

[torpid patrol]

You're removing trees by tunnelling under them?

[lavish kindle]

Yes

I mean, the intent was the tunnel, but that was the result

suggestion: Could you add a toggle to the lumberjeck flag to cut dead trees only, to avoid the plant murder debuff?

[torpid patrol]

It's more complicated than that. I think there's a mod that adds cutting dead trees first. I'd need to look into however they do it.

[lavish kindle]

There is a mod, cut dead trees first, but it's not 1.0 compatible yet. But it seems to make sense for the leafcoats, so I thought I would mention it.

I couldn't remember, but Cut Dead Trees First only prioitizes cutting dead trees, it doesn't let you turn off cutting live trees.

[torpid patrol]

But it would be a place to start.

[lavish kindle]

Yeah, and assuming the mod isn't abandoned, it would probably be easy to get them to add a "cut dead trees only" option.

I assume they are just waiting for the 1.0 release, hard to know.

[torpid patrol]

A situation I'd never considered.

This is from Greedy Nation, rather than Leaf Coats, but still... The Observation Terrace is in the water.

[astral ermine]

Was doing the same with the colony I showcased recently if you look close enough haha

[hidden cape]

So they get wet fur and sit in a river stream?

[astral ermine]

Do believe they did. Didn't watch too closely to the staus bar but once, and they weren't in there too long. But I think wet fur went up too

[wraith burrow]

hey i just joined this thread and saw this mesage and thought i should metsion it would seem nice if the shreder turned scrap into usable metal scrap that than can be melted down into metal blocks in a smelter

[desert rover]

LeafCoats wont use a smelter if memory serves.

[wraith burrow]

ah ok

[worn ivy]

Yeah, the Leafcoats are all pyrophobic.
It's also why they don't have dynamite and have no baked or grilled foods.

[torpid patrol]

Apparently it doesn't actually give wet fur

Yeah, it's a bit odd there.
I was talking about how the Leaf Coats have a lot in common with Folktails, and Emberpelts have a lot in common with IronTeeth.

Food is where you basically swap them around.
Emberpelts cook food like Folktails, and Leaf Coats prefer alternate methods of food preparation, like Fermentation, like Iron Teeth.

[outer python]

several of my observation terraces are built that way ( across the top of dams, half in the water and half overlooking the downstream dropoff)

it was quite a lot later before I realized they even could be built on the branches

but I still liked the look

[torpid patrol]

That's why I moved it to the tree parts tab

[hidden cape]

huzzah, and it was on leafcoats, not folktails

[outer python]

Yep, that indeed clued me in

[worn ivy]

I doubt they bothered to enforce factions with any of the achievements beyond "only this faction has this thing."

[desert rover]

I didn't test it when I got the achievements. I used FT and IT to get the ones that were named for them. I used EmberPelts for the rest. Well, still working on the last one; 500 beavers.

[worn ivy]

Ah, yes, the "Why is my CPU fan screaming at me?" achievement.

[astral ermine]

ngl, would never have thought to see if that little bit can path through it on purpose lol

[torpid patrol]

It's supposed to be where a branch can connect. But, yes, you can do that.

You're building with leaf coats how you build with other factions.

[astral ermine]

yeah, am on the 50x100 map and was still waiting on log production to get more established. need to change up production today now haha

[astral ermine]

is this building more like leaf coats?

🤣

[worn ivy]

The one on the right is barely acceptable, but the one on the left offends the laws of physics.

[astral ermine]

hey now. beavers are master engineers. just because you dont understand it, doesnt mean it cant be viable!

haha

[merry sinew]

I have a Three Days Grace song playing in my head now. From my super emo days. Thanks for that XD

[torpid patrol]

LOL

Yeah, I'm thinking of changing that one to not be stackable, but I'd have to do it in such a way that it doesn't break for people.

which would probably mean renaming it, and adding the name as a migration entry for the one with a frame.

[astral ermine]

idk how much I'd sweat over it. only silly people would even think to build ladderrs up like that instead of just putting them the same way or only rortate as needed up the center of the trees. which you wont see in the end anyway

[acoustic yarrow]

It would need to be "attachable to another building (or ground)" which I don't think can be done.

[desert rover]

I totally forgot, but do branches transmit power and goods like the trunk usually does?

[torpid patrol]

I barely started to look into that. I was going to see if it's possible to add a new building Validator similar to how terrain can attach to the side of other terrain.

Though, it would probably get nuked by the game load block object validator like things on tubes do right now.

[torpid patrol]

Nope.

[torpid patrol]

People in the past have asked for things like a Lumberjack Lodge. Something like a 2x2 building (like the forester) that employs 5 beavers.

While Leaf Coats wouldn't have that, they don't have a Farmhouse, but perhaps a Farmhouse-like structure could be a Gatherer's hut?

I was originally going to have the Forester also able to collect, but I couldn't get the logic working.

[viscid zinc]

I think a gatherer lodge totally makes sense since they are heavily reliant on gatherers and not farmers.

[desert rover]

Agreed. The more things that are tree parts instead of just on the ground better, except perhaps when it makes sense for them to be on the ground like the scavengers and wood cutters.

[torpid patrol]

I don't think a Lumberjack Lodge would make much sense for Leaf Coats. perhaps for other factions.

Gatherer's hut would work for all factions, but less useful than for leaf coats.

I can't really multi-task with other things, so if it's a gatherer, it can't prune, etc. And while a Pruner's hut or Scavenger's hut would also work, I don't think I'd want to include it as base for Leaf Coats.

[hidden cape]

never really paid much attention to it, when using the planted leafcoats mod in conjunction with the no breeding, you still need a forester around to replant, right?

[desert rover]

My experiences says yes.

Though I leave regular breeding on also.

[torpid patrol]

yes

[hidden cape]

Ty

[hidden cape]

Ty

[astral ermine]

the little gateways... just such a nice little touch to things

[torpid patrol]

Glad you approve.

[desert rover]

Is this totally stand-alone or does it physically fit with anything else?

[torpid patrol]

Nah, it's just stand alone.

[placid patrol]

it really does look nice and clean

[hidden cape]

I like the idea that not everything has to be a tree but many things can be a tree

On that note, a tree top Forester or maybe just like a tree house/bar/gathering place (possible wonder idea). Just thinking of ideas to top the trees

[desert rover]

@torpid patrol From my current game when all the population died save for one planted beaver.

After planting the next generation you go to the big pump and get some water.  Now all you have to do is stay sane until your 10 new friends ripen.```

[hidden cape]

lore heavy leafcoats

[desert rover]

I am just glad he made that sub-mod!

[torpid patrol]

😛

Was talking in comments on youtube to MiGly.

When they plant matures, they just plop off and sit on the ground for a moment before running away.

now imagine you do that and wake up, and you're the only beaver in an otherwise dead colony.

Anyway...

Basically looks like an LC Farmhouse

but it's just a Gatherer.

Would be great if you could put the Gatherer and Forrester on the same building, but you can't.

Well, you can, but it doesn't work right.

[hidden cape]

thats a fun building. assuming it will be a separate mod from base leafcoats?

[torpid patrol]

Nah, Gonna put it in base LeafCoats.

It's basically their version of a Farmhouse, but it acts like a Gatherer's flag.

How many beavers do you think it should be able to emply?

[hidden cape]

2-4 range? It depends on the benefits vs flags. Aesthetically it looks nicer. But you could also just place 2-4 flags based on what looks like a 2x2 footprint

[torpid patrol]

Except would it really be a 2x2 footprint with the paths?

[astral ermine]

ive found that 3 is usually more than enough for just regular flags in an area, so maybe just 2, but make them more efficient while in the building somehow? flags be free and that will cost science and resources

[torpid patrol]

hmmm... more efficient...

[torpid patrol]

Considering it's the size of an IT Farmhouse, I'm tempted to be like... 2 workers, but at the same time, why would you want to build this if you could just build too Gatherer's flags.

Might go 3?

[hidden cape]

That's what I'm saying. Maybe a benefit would be the level of storage? 30 or 40 of each material? I'm not entirely sure what a flag storage is

[torpid patrol]

Flag storage is 20, Farmhouse is 50, so I kept it at Farmhouse levels, 50.

I also gave them double working speed and double carry capacity.

They still have to walk, so 1 beaver is probably like, 1.8 the speed of a gatherer flag beaver.

so 2 or 3 beavers would work.

Since it's the size of an Iron Teeth Farmhouse, go with 2?

[astral ermine]

2 would probably be fine

[torpid patrol]

With the bonuses, yes.

[torpid patrol]

The Bonuses aren't too Overpowered, are they?

[astral ermine]

i mean, if you have the building cost like 1000 science and cost treated planks and gears to lock it to later in the game i dont see any problems

leave the flags for early game, then that for later in the game for efficiency

[torpid patrol]

I wasn't thinking that late game.

I can increase costs a bit

[torpid patrol]

Instead of treated planks, perhaps Metal Blocks.

[astral ermine]

whichever you decide, i just threw out suggestions. just figured the best way to avoid it being OP is to make it inaccessible too quickly. by the time you get to it you're probably at least fairly established and looking to improve efficiency and looks

[torpid patrol]

but if it costs metal, then it would typically look like it's made of metal, and I'm not sure where I'd put that in the model.

[bold sedge]

Absolutely adore this faction, as I mentioned on steam too. This is what I'd call my "completed" colony, since there's nothing else I can really improve besides expanding, everything is stable and resilient and I've built production chain to the max, and maxed out wellbeing. Really, REALLY like the verticality!

Ziplines go WEEEEEE

[outer python]

give them scythes or reaping hooks in the pile of tools out front? metal tools seem like a good reason for the work speed bonus

[hidden cape]

Or could they use tools to boost gathering in the hut? Not sure how complicated that is

[torpid patrol]

I don't think I can add a consumable to the gathering process.

[outer python]

Yeah, I was just thinking of it as hanging on the wall or leaning out front (e.g. where you seemingly have a broom now) to help sell the use of metal. Or maybe it could even be like the farmer hats, and be carried around. I then had the same thought that it could be a consumed input (and another recipe for the building that makes shovels), but I don't think the engine really has a way to implement that for gatherers (rather than a factory recipe)

Lapan does have something kind like that with whitepaws, but they ended up with a generic "tools" consumable that is made from metal and boosts productivity, but it isn't tied to any particular building,

He just did that with a well-being bonus (along with similar boosters "sandals" for movement speed and "satchels" for carrying capacity). Which gave some economic sinks that consume resources even when you don't have major building projects going on.

[wise mulch]

It's a detailer or a "detailer remover" ? 🤣

[desert rover]

suggestion: one or two smaller decorative topper options

@torpid patrol I discovered something today that I never paid attention to before. The tree toppers need an extra width of space around them. No big deal. No one (but me) probably builds two trees touching.

But that was the before times. Now there are situations, like this one, where a geothermal vent is right beside a bad water source. There is no choice but to build them beside each other if your beavers wish to tap both. That means at least one of the two trees can't have a topper. That makes my beavers sad.

[desert rover]

BTW, I got innovative with a solution for this one case. 😛

[astral ermine]

I mean, sometimes you just need storage towers. And at least with the toppers being 5x5, both towers would get the roof bonus if you didn't feel inclined to get a topper on both

[torpid patrol]

Working on updating mods for v1.0.7.0 of Vanilla.

There's like, 2 things I need to account for, but the first 1 effects more than half my mods.

BlockObjectSpec exists on every entity that can be placed in the world. 422 of them across all mods.

Fortunately Lapan gave a simple find and replace ruleset, so I just did that.

Then there's changes to FactionSpec blueprint modifiers. fairly simple changes.

and related to blockobjectspec, I also have to update the script pack, basically any script that uses it.

No type found for key WindGaugeSpec

[torpid patrol]

Apparently, there's way more to change.

this might be a while.

[merry sinew]

makes note to NOT update for a bit

[obsidian tinsel]

well guess i shouldnt have updated if i wanted to paly leaf coats today lol

[torpid patrol]

I'm actually at the point where the game is loading

just doing some quick checks, but I'm probably going to update shortly.

[torpid patrol]

Leaf Coats:
Updated District Crossing Model.
New Models for the Tree Side Block Branch Access.
Added new Gatherer Hut (Like a Farmhouse but for Gathering). Beavers work twice as fast and carry twice as much compared to a Gatherer Flat, has 2 workers.
Added Worker Outfits.
Fixed for V1.0.7.0

Leaf Coats Beaver Plants:
Added Greedy Coats and Greedy Nation support.
Fixed for V1.0.7.0

Plus 14 other mods Fixed for V1.0.7.0.

Note, didn't need to update Badwater or Explosives, because the actual assets that were broken are actually inside Leaf Coats mod.

[torpid patrol]

not sure it looks very good, but.... can you tell what it's supposed to be.

[hidden cape]

Dirt excavator?

[placid patrol]

underground windmill

[hidden cape]

I thought this as well. It's all perspective. Are we looking top down or from the side

[merry sinew]

Powered levee? (sp)

[hidden cape]

Maybe a tunnel turbine?

Wind wouldn't be logical underground but if you pumped water through it?

Even tho windmills work underground

[placid patrol]

hey, we are playing a humanoid beaver game, logic doesnt apply

if it spins it spins

[desert rover]

@torpid patrol Ever thought about having the wonder launch self planting vine-grown beavers? 😛

[torpid patrol]

usually my icons are from the side.

[hidden cape]

By this logic no one is right so far and we are looking at it from the side

[torpid patrol]

It is the in-tree windmill

[hidden cape]

Oh the medium one

[torpid patrol]

is it bad?

[desert rover]

No. I'm just better at being told what an icon is, then having my brain accept and associate it, rather than guessing with little or no context.

[desert rover]

Are there any numbers or observations about how many willow and eucalyptus trees are needed to keep a plank maker and a log maker going at maximum production?

Also, does planting willows in water change how they grow and produce, or is it just an option?

[hidden cape]

In all honesty I don't use the log/plank maker. I just ate the debuff until I had bots

[desert rover]

The debuff should probably be harsher because I do that a lot as well.

A -10 debuff and people may look into the provided alternatives more. 😛

(Including me)

[hidden cape]

I think because I haven't used it I really haven't had a chance to anticipate what the need requirements are. Like how much space you need of each tree. Plus when I tried using it on my first playthrough, my builds got too big to keep up with demand so I went back to oaks

[desert rover]

That was my problem last time.

[torpid patrol]

Yeah, I doubled the productivity since V1 was released

I can't look it up to get numbers right now, but I have posted numbers in the past.

[torpid patrol]

Planting in water doesn't offer any bonus, it's just an option.

[obsidian tinsel]

its not just the debuff tho it takes a lot off infrastructure to not have to just cut the wood

[hidden cape]

See I didn't even know this was an option. I'm sure it says it in the details. But my assumption was willows grew on land. I guess if you plant in water at least the beaver gathering will get wet fur bonus

[torpid patrol]

In theory its a land tree, but doesn't mind being partially submerged.

[torpid patrol]

https://youtu.be/k7H6k_MsJrk?list=PLelipWd9VJGoy3ispFMnhmxZvZ6Ph65Rb&t=518

Apparently I went crazy

[outer python]

When working underground, the "loosen terrain" model is hidden by the "visible layers" tool too early. You have to be able to see the block being dug, and the ~~two ~~ three layers above it, to be able to see the flag

[merry sinew]

Hey, Bob? Out of sheer curiosity, why is Leafcoats incompatible with Whitepaws? Not asking you to change it, just curious. They're my two favorite mods XD

[tawny zealot]

Whitepaws modifies even the regular factions when you have all the mods enabled, so I'd assume they both change the same thing and it breaks something

[acoustic yarrow]

It's not some much that Leafcoats is incompatible, it's that Whitepaws is. It's not even recommended to play Folktails or IronTeeth with Whitepaws enabled.

I think a bunch of overrides would need to become faction specific overrides to make it work.

[merry sinew]

Interesting. I've run a lot of IT with Whitepaws enabled and never had an issue, but I do have a tendency to have extremes of luck. Good or bad, but always extreme. Possible I just somehow missed all the issues because I was having a day when the gods didn't hate me

I asked primarily because LeafCoats specifically lists WhitePaws as incompatible, but Emberpelts doesn't

I thought it might have to do with the borrowed Grapes or something

[torpid patrol]

I'm not entirely sure to be honest.

[tawny zealot]

I think Timberborn needs mod groups, maybe like Stellaris or other Paradox games where you can select which list of mods to load

[torpid patrol]

oh yes, the mod interface could definitely be improved.

being able to click and hold on the text to drag a mod up and down the list would be a big improvement.

Being able to save and load mod lists would also be an improvement.

[torpid patrol]

this is an improvement, right?

[small beacon]

I know this was several months ago but, in case it might be relevant still, why not mechanical solar panels?
... How do they work, you say? Idk, stirling engine, plant that spins? We're already asking for suspension of disbelief with green beavers...

[torpid patrol]

there, that seems to have done it.

[torpid patrol]

Considering everything else they have, I don't think they need it.

[viscid zinc]

Mechanical solar panels. I think leafcoats would instead find a way to have treetoppers or branch hangers that were leaves doing photosynthesis to provide energy. They would connect to a power network via a biological/mechanical interface.

Would have been an interesting way to go with power generation that was only available during the day and have to use charged gravity batteries during the night for attractions and bot-run buildings.

But they already have the large wind turbines as giant tree sections, so I don't think this is necessary.

[torpid patrol]

ah, right. I'm running into an issue with this now.

To make it stop deleting it based on "Uncovered", I had to change to Underground instead.

The Uncovered logic is per-stage, so, Finished (Which isn't really needed), ConstructionSite and ConstructionBase.

ConstructionSite and ConstructionBase use different models.

Underground only has 1 image, so there's no way to do ConstructionSite vs ConstructionBase graphics for Underground.

[torpid patrol]

The underground model also doesn't turn grey when in build mode like the others do.

It's probably good enough as is.

[outer python]

Thanks! Not a severe bug, just made it tricky to plan deepening that tunnel

[torpid patrol]

Yeah, I think the new version I have is an improvement, but has bugs of it's own.

Keep in mind that when you get to the point of working underground, you should be using remove terrain instead of loosen terrain

there's nothing stopping you from building loosen terrain in the floor of a cave, but you can't build it directly under something.

[outer python]

Yep, i drilled the first layer with remove, but was then deepening it with loosen because i wanted the dirt

I like the loosen terrain mechanic more in general, it just feels unrealistic for dynamite to make dirt just disappear. I like to try and plan my terraforming as cut&fill where the dirt is mostly just moved, and preferably not far.

[wise mulch]

Was hoping for exploding dynamite to end to a dirt block scrapped by a scavenger. But, how is now it is good enough.

[outer python]

Yeah, I like the loosen/demolish/collect

[wise mulch]

demolish is out of place, but, is minor ...

[outer python]

I also really don't like the "unsupported dirt blocks just disppear" - they should drop straight down, destroying buildings but landing as still-occupied blocks. So you should get a collapsed sinkhole, not a removed mountain.

but hey, at least we can tunnel now

The other mechanic I'd like to see someone try (maybe whitepaws, since they have the absurd 1000 dirt cost to build a terrain block?) is something like the tunnel script, that swaps a dirt block and an empty voxel, moving the dirt one position. So you could do minor reshaping (like notching in a stairwell), but any megaproject stuff would have a huge cost in materials/time

but I suspect that would not be easy to implement in the engine

[torpid patrol]

I originally had a Flag Mechanic, but it was buggy. That's why I went with Demolish and it dropping the dirt as rubble.

[torpid patrol]

hmmm, they're probably not supposed to be able to loosen without support.

[outer python]

Sorry, I meant that just in general for the digging mechanics in Timberborn

you can only loosen on the top surface, so you can't use loosen dirt to undermine a whole column

but you can use remove/tunnel that way, and everything above just... vanishes (in stock factions as well, of course)

you **can **loosen an unsupported overhang though (and it just disappears without leaving the loose dirt, or the rubble)

but I don't find that any more objectionable than all the other ways of having dirt just vanish.

[hidden cape]

tbh, i believe (dont quote me) the amp ears faction (lets keep praying its still in the works) was supposed to have solar panels

[acoustic yarrow]

(and whitepaws do -- it's just a reskinned powerwheel)

[astral ermine]

Lol, is that all it really is? Makes more sense now that it has a worker requirement lol

[outer python]

Yep. Which is really quite clever, because a solar panel should only make power during the day - and requiring the worker makes it turn off at night

but it means that you really want to make sure the worker at your solar plant has good sandals (movement speed bonus, thus treadmill produces more power)

[acoustic yarrow]

I assume the worker, umm, helps maintain the equipment.

[outer python]

Someone has to eat all these snacks

[acoustic yarrow]

Gotta have someone to synchronize it to the grid every morning.

Chris Boden has some great videos on reconnecting hydro power plants to the grid.

[outer python]

How utterly idyllic (just watch your step on that 3rd-floor entrance bridging over the aquifer pump)

[torpid patrol]

what the...

[desert rover]

That is a cool way to power the pump.

[outer python]

I thought so. It's not really enough power/battery to keep the pump at 100%, but the wind will almost certainly have the weights hauled to the top by the end of a drought/badtide, and that means we'll be able to start up with full power and get the channel's evaporation losses refilled quickly. After that flow rates are at the mercy of the wind

but also it looks cool

[torpid patrol]

there's so many variations here

I had to write a new script to make this work too

[outer python]

ooh, nice though

[astral ermine]

Looks great 👍

[torpid patrol]

Honestly trying to figure out where I'd put such a roof as Leaf Coats, and I came up with this.

[outer python]

I dunno if it helps (espescially if you've already done all the variations, but https://mod.io/g/timberborn/m/modular-roofs#description really just had gabled and hipped models - but they overhung by 0.5 without a collision detection, so most of the cross-gable, etc are just letting the models clip into each other

doing it with a script and actual alternate models is definitely less hacky, though

[torpid patrol]

oh yeah, I wrote a script

and all I really did was copy an existing script, and modify it for 8 directions.

[outer python]

I've definitely got things that aren't 3x3 tower tops and currently have decorative-floor flat roofs

Thought I may have to leave that one, lest we deprive the kits of their new favorite challenge (high-fiving the scarecrow)

[torpid patrol]

x3

I just had the wildest thought

what if the plant on the roof changed colour at random like the shrubs

no I'm not doing that.

[outer python]

Though there's weirldly one corner of the wind turbine on the right I can't put decorative flooring under

Heh, you just like making us rebuild things until they roll the right color combination

maybe it's an annual, not a perennial, so it changes color each season

[torpid patrol]

Seems like a bug, I'll fix it

[hidden cape]

Looking good

[torpid patrol]

so I think I ended up with 15 model variations

0000 (no connections)
1000 (1 connect)
1001 (Corner)
1010 (straight)
1011 (T)
1111 (X)
those are all the standard ones.
Then the Corner needs another variant for diagonal
10010001
T needs 3 more variations.
10110001 (1 corner)
10110010 (mirror of previous)
10110011 (both corners)
X needs 5 more variations.
11111000 (1 diagonal)
11110011 (2 diagonals next to each other)
11111010 (2 opposite diagonals)
11110111 (3 diagonals)
11111111 (all 4 diagonals)

Variations are allowed to rotate, but not mirror, that's why the T needs 4 total, not 3 total.

The order of the digits there are.
Down, Left, Up, Right
or if 8 digits
Down, Left, Up, Right, DownLeft, UpLeft, UpRight, DownRight.

[hidden cape]

Oh no, he's using the Konami code

[torpid patrol]

Fixed Tube Platform Block Index calculation.
Added new BobingaboutMergeableObjectModel8Way script for LeafCoats stuff.

Fixed some warning messages.
Adjusted Hitbox and Occupation of the Tool Factory.
Fixed where Beavers sit in the entrance of the Gatherer Hut
Fixed "Underground" and "Uncovered" graphics control for Loosen Dirt.
Updated water wheel power value
Added Dynamic Roof. (Probably just the first roof)

[outer python]

Whoa, water wheels just got a huge buff

Updated water wheel power value

I guess you mentioned that

[torpid patrol]

They did in Vanilla, but I forgot to update them to match

also, I forgot to buff the power dam ¦3

[outer python]

now two aquifer pumps and three water wheels is an over-unity generator

[torpid patrol]

Keep in mind I'm just following Vanilla changes

[outer python]

yep

I'm just laughing because my already-too-big "prepare for bot factories" project to narrow, deepen, and put water wheels in the badwater diversion stream immediately scored the "mastered the flow" achievement upon loading.

it's now > 11k hp, currently hooked to... nothing

better get the rest of that project built

[torpid patrol]

😛

I'm not sure when the vanilla change was made

somewhere in V1

[outer python]

1.0 changed the water simulation tick from every 2s to every 1s

So the reported "cms" now shows half as much (because it's measuring only half as much time)

the water "second" is now the same as the second for everything else

I assume they rescaled the generators to match that so they didn't get weakened

(but they rescaled the sources on maps to be half as strong, else everything would now be flooded)

I suppose they probably rescaled the water wheels too

[torpid patrol]

Probably

[worldly trellis]

Schweeeet!

[torpid patrol]

Also, Power Dam.
If you use it like a water wheel
a water wheel has a 2x3 footprint and a power of 120.
a power dam has a 1x1 footprint and a power of 50.
so if you made a 2x3 grid of them, you'd get 300 power. Seems a little OP to me.

they do require a bit more setup though

[hidden cape]

I have a leafcoats build with zero water wheels and all wind/gravity batteries

I wasn't generating nearly enough power with water wheels so I tore it all down

[torpid patrol]

Well, they've been buffed now

[hidden cape]

Nice

[acoustic yarrow]

btw the Steam workshop and mod.io descriptions pages for Leafcoats still say that there's no other way to breed (with no breeding mod). I assume they should mention Beaver Plants instead?

[torpid patrol]

Probably

[outer python]

Another slightly-weird occupancy - the ladder block of the medium housing unit won't let you place a path under it

[torpid patrol]

Hmm

That's the 3x2?

[hidden cape]

Was this the one previously that didn't have ladder rungs? I know I've tested since that fix went out but not since this most recent timberborn patch

[outer python]

yeah, the 3x2 house

it seems to connect fine, you just can't place the path texture/railings/hedge/etc

[torpid patrol]

That was the 3x3

[hidden cape]

Ok

[worldly trellis]

Thank You Guys for all you do!!!! Having a blast with LC. just posted my latest pix in screenshots

[limber mason]

How close would you say Leafcoats is to being "complete" for 1.0?

I'm going to float a few options to my community as to what they want to see next and I've got a decent contingent of people asking for the treevers

Also selfishly I really want to play these guys again 🤣

[tawny zealot]

Hmm, the devs have broken all mods in a recent update, so there wouldn't be any guarantee that the devs wouldn't break the game again before the full release...

[limber mason]

Correct. But I'm asking more about whether what exists now, in experimental 1.0, is in a mostly complete state as far as mod functionality and features are concerned

[torpid patrol]

I'd say the mod is mostly complete, there's just a few things missing like the Wonder, and a few decorations missing, like Roofss and leafy bits for the tree.

I don't have a schedule for how long it will take to make these things.

[torpid patrol]

I am working on more than just leaf coats too.

Like this incredibly complex minefield of code. Even eMka said he wouldn't try this.
No, it's not actually functional yet.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1300977672037339188/1463677502785327279/image.png?ex=6972b366&is=697161e6&hm=8fc95a54c5184c3d9cc4b850a72f553113ae136658168d083a111035be82366b&

[torpid patrol]

I think the Wonder should probably be a priority. Once that's done I'll drop the early access status.

But I have to admit, I still haven't decided what it should be.

[hidden cape]

Spinny topper to a tree made of palms leaves (like a carousel) or a giant star like a Christmas tree 🤣

[torpid patrol]

I think a beaver catapult could be viable too

[hidden cape]

Technically water beavers has a catapult. But that could be fun

A giant clock tower. So the beaver parents could Zipline by and say "hey kids look! It's big Ben! And parliament!"

[torpid patrol]

I mean, could make an absolutely massive clock that you can build on top of a tree.

[acoustic yarrow]

I like the idea of a giant plant that disperses seeds, shooting them off into the distance. Something like witch hazel or wood sorrel crossed with little shop of horrors

(could use the IronTeeth wonder mechanic)

[hidden cape]

"Eww your getting your seed on me"

[glad oriole]

So uh, without the badwater for leafcoats mod, it's impossible to get extract if the map doesn't have a badwater source to put a rig on (and since badwater seeps don't count, the new experimental map Seepage is an example).

||found that out the hard way when I wanted to get into terraforming that map and then was like "wait, where's my extract rig?"||

[hidden cape]

Maybe I'm slow on the uptake here, but wouldn't a bad tide produce bad water and use a bad water pump? Or is the pump only accessible with the mod? My mods are all a blur because I use so many. And what's the extract being used for?

[astral ermine]

only with mod

[worldly trellis]

An Idea for LC Wonder. You don't build the wonder, you plant it. then supply it with materials like bark, branches extract, water, When complete it is a HUGE Beaver/ Treant looking Tree. That's my 2 cents for what it's worth. But anything Bobbing comes up with is fine by me. Just want start finishing maps with LC.

[torpid patrol]

This is true, it's basically why the Badwater mod exists.

Plant the Wonder, hmmm.

[torpid patrol]

Should I include new game modes in Emberpelts (And Leaf Coats?), or put them in another mod?

And if I also put some in Leaf Coats, should they be the same game modes, or different ones?

[worn ivy]

What kind of game modes are we talking?

[torpid patrol]

I've written 2 so far.

Balanced:
The Seasons are fairly balanced.
50% chance of Bad Tide starting from Cycle 5.
All seasons last 25 days except for early game handicap.

Long:
The Seasons are fairly long.
Droughts and Badtides can last up to 100 days.
Temperate season can last up to 30 days.

Balanced is what I typically set my options to in most games.

not always 25. I've done 15 and 30 before.

and another I've done is change the durations to 10 for a wet season and 20 for a drought/bad-tide.

but these are game modes based on what I tend to set my custom games to.

Depending what map you play on, some people want to play on Hard mode, but the map doesn't generate enough water to make 5 day wet season followed by 30 day drought very viable.

I mean, you can do it, but you have to limit your irrigated land.

[worn ivy]

Hmm... I feel like those would make more sense as their own mod.

[torpid patrol]

hmm

You like the game modes though, right?

[worn ivy]

They sound decent enough.

I typically play with these settings:

10 Adults (+2) aged 10% to 50% 
5 kits (+1) aged 10% to 90%
200 food
50 water

Temperate: 10-20 days
Drought: enabled
    10-20 days
    10% handicap for 5 cycles

Badtide: enabled
    50% chance
    10-15 days
    10% handicap for 5 cycles
    4 cycle delay

Injury rate: 50%
Refund rate: 50%

[torpid patrol]

I didn't list food, but, I set them both to 100 food, 20 water.

does 10% handicap mean they last only 10% as long (20 days can be 2), or are 10% shorter, so they last 90% as long (20 days can be 18).

[worn ivy]

That's the percentage of the full time for the first cycle. It then scales via linear interpolation, reaching full length after that many seasons of that type. (i.e. badtides don't count toward the drought handicap counter and vice versa).

10-20 days with a handicap of 10% means 1-2 days on the first cycle.

[desert rover]

Will these be aware of and work with Luke's weather mod? I presume you don't want Luke's to override what you set.

[torpid patrol]

So if its handicap for 5 cycles, the first is 2 days, second is 5 third is 9, 4th is 13, 5th is 17, then 20 as maximums?

[torpid patrol]

This is done with Vanilla methods, so Luke's mods will be aware of it as much as its aware of vanilla difficulties.

[hidden cape]

I'm sure JC would be intrigued by the modes as a mod. He likes to torture himself with water beavers which plays out sorta like this

[torpid patrol]

Still, the question is. Stand alone mod, part of Emberpelts, part of both Emberpelts and Leaf Coats, and if both, Same modes, or unique modes in each?

[hidden cape]

I like stand alone for each. The unique part can be up to you. I don't want to make more work for you

[torpid patrol]

hmm

[acoustic yarrow]

Stand alone, you could bundle the different options into a single mod if you wanted

[worn ivy]

I would tend to go with that option as well.
Separate from the other mods, but all of the custom difficulties merged into one pack.

[worldly trellis]

For what it's worth, Stand Alone

[torpid patrol]

Updated to 1.0.8.0
Buffed Power Dam to match the Water Wheel buff from the previous update.
Edited Block Occupations of Medium Housing Unity to allow you to place Path at the bottom of the ladder.

also updated Emberpelts and released Beaver Faction District Control.

[glad oriole]

With only leafcoats mods, I'm getting the following crash message, so uh...

if you need that in text form I can paste it here but I figured two pages of error messages might be a bit much to just paste in unprompted

[torpid patrol]

You need version 1.0.8.0, it's a steam sync issue

[glad oriole]

goshdangit

[torpid patrol]

Game version 1.0.8.0 changed BottomMatchingTemplateSpec to UnderstructureConstraintSpec, I updated that probably 8 hours ago now.

[torpid patrol]

Yeah.

That's why when people have issues, I typically ask for a Mod.io link to mods I don't already have.

If I press Subscribe on Steam, they don't actually show up in my game for several hours.

[desert rover]

This helps:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3358667560&searchtext=update

[torpid patrol]

@idle ibex People keep asking me if there's a way I can add the IT Tiny Tubeway Station to Folktails if using your Ziplines&Tubeways mod.

I mean, I can add the IT TTS to FT, but it would just always be there and be useless if they're not using your mod.

Any thoughts?

[idle ibex]

hmm... not sure. right now Z&T only hard code Tubeway for FT and Zipline for IT and that's it. with Configurable Factions (work in progress), maybe.

but I don't think Z&T can do it because it's a modded building

[torpid patrol]

Yeah, that's my thoughts exactly. You'd have the same issues from your end as I would on mine, there's no easy way to say "Add this building IF both these mods are enabled"

Configurable Factions would be the only viable option.

[acoustic yarrow]

Z&T would have to add support for modded factions. It could be hard coded, the list is short 🙂

[torpid patrol]

@acoustic yarrow on a different note.
You've assisted me on things a lot lately. Would you want to be a named beaver in the Leaf Coats mod?

[acoustic yarrow]

That would be fun. I'd be honored.

[torpid patrol]

So, I'd need to know what name you'd want them to display in game (I assume "normanr", though this may become "Normanr"), which faction they'd be in Beaver Factions mods, and what they'd look like.

Like, Tobbert is a sandy colour (lighter than Folktails), and is a Folktails faction beaver. probably the most simple example.

Lapan is a radioactive whitepaw beaver

[wise mulch]

Lapan is not so dangerous. Sure, while not deal with brambles 🤣 And, congrats Bob, for wining 👏

[torpid patrol]

Thank you.

[acoustic yarrow]

Yea, plain "Norman" would be better if it wants to make it title case (it should probably be in title case anyways)

[torpid patrol]

Sure

any thoughts on the other things I mentioned?

[acoustic yarrow]

I think I'd be fine with either Leafcoats or Folktails.

For look I was thinking something techo-beaver-ish. Interpret that as techno-music, or techno-mancer, as you like 🙂

Something almost opposite to steampunk, it would have high-tech red/blue streaks (a bit like eMka's white band).

but maybe more like the charcoal beaver markings

Think: David Bowie's Aladdin Sane cover -crossed-with- William Gibson's Neuromancer -crossed-with- Harry Potter's Lightning bolt

[torpid patrol]

Hmmm

[acoustic yarrow]

I feel like I didn't explain that very well 🙂

[torpid patrol]

Feel free to try again. Pictures can help too.

[hidden cape]

My best take on what @acoustic yarrow is explaining is like cyberpunk, dystopian yet futuristic

[torpid patrol]

Dead plants should no longer spawn beavers on game load.

[outer python]

Dead plants should no longer spawn beavers on game load.
Well, that explains the many beavers who just just died of thirst

I had a planted (but not re-planted) a large field of beavers hoping they'd grow and repopulate after the first incident™. This worked, they ripened and joined a few survivors, and the colony carried on. And then I opened that save and found myself with way more beavers than I expected to have

Just to mention it, I'm playing Greedy Nations now, with Splet needs and Split breeding, and it looks like the leafcoats aren't getting their "plant murderer" malus, nor the emberpelts their "wet fur" one

I assume those scripts just don't work in the faction-mix setup?

[torpid patrol]

Greedy nation excludes those by design. Split needs should re-add them, but needs to be lower in mod load order.

I haven't really tested that it actually works yet.

[outer python]

Ok, I moved Split Needs to the bottom of the load order, and now it crashes with

InvalidOperationException: Need with id Apples not found or multiple needs found
Let me do a bit of searching with it loading at different points and see which mod it apparently also needs to be above...

[outer python]

Ok, so if I have

(a bunch of mods, including LeafCoats, Emberpelts, Dam Decoration, and some other stuff)
and then at the end

1. Greedy Builders
2. Greedy Embers
3. Greedy Coats
4. Greedy Nation
5. Greedy Groups

If split needs is inserted at 1.5 (before Greedy Embers), or earlier, things load fine, but I don't get "plant murderer" or the emberpelts "wet fur".
If I inset it at 2.5 (between Greedy Embers and Greedy Coats), I get a crash on load "Need with id Juice not found or multiple needs found"
If I inset it at 3.5 (between Greedy Coats and Greedy Nation), or anywhere later than that, I get a crash on load "Need with id Apples not found or multiple needs found"

[torpid patrol]

No id for Apples and Juice? Not AppleJuice?

Apples and Juice are from Emberpelts, Applejuice is from Food Expansion.

If you have the latest version of everything, it should work regardless of order.

I can't look at the zip for several hours though, I'm on mobile and just got up for work. And after work go to my dads.

[torpid patrol]

put split needs down one below Greedy Nation.

But I don't think that's what's causing the issue. Honestly I'm not sure what would cause it. With those version numbers, it should work.

Apples is Emberpelts, Emberpelts is there.

wait...

where in the list is Emberpelts?

This log file lists it at the top, 7th down.

but then again in the next list, at the bottom after greedy groups.

where is it?

[outer python]

EmberPelts is 7th down, Beaver Faction Split Breeding is the one after greedy groups

not sure why the list printer for "Minimum Game Versions:" is in a different order

it looks like maybe it's been sorted/grouped by the minimum versions, so EmberPelts are being printed near the end because they require 1.0.8.0?

If I put split needs down below Greedy Nation I get the same "Need with id Apples not found or multiple needs found" as in this log (where it was between Greedy Coats and Greedy Nation). So I assume the relevant part of the error is "or multiple needs found", since LeafCoats and EmberPelts both have apples

(though of course that ought to be normal, sorting out the overlapping needs is what Split Needs is all about...)

Here's the player.log if I move Split Needs even later (after Greedy Nation) - same exception

Now I'm headed off to work, sorry to post and run.

[astral ermine]

AAHHH REEET PEEPS!

[torpid patrol]

x3

when I get home, I'll have to check if MiGly posted another episode of Wee Trees.

I've been waiting to see if he spots eMka

Though I figured out the true issue with the Beaver Plants thanks to MiGly

[torpid patrol]

This one

[astral ermine]

He did. Didn't catch anything too crazy, but also watched at work haha

[torpid patrol]

😛

[sudden folio]

Did a quick search in this thread and couldn't find something that explains this (or maybe my keyword search was wrong) : I started a Leafcoats colony on Helix today and somehow even if I have 14 beds free the beavers never breed more than 0 to 2 child at a time, which is making my colony over at a max of 10 to 13 adults and I can't grow further, at all. I tried building a house or two in a different 'tree' other than the 'main tree' to see if that would change things, to no avail. Am I missing something? Average well being of 13, built some of the basic stuff up to planks and 4 types of foods and almost all types of trees but can't grow past that because of the 'beavers don't make enough children' issue I seem to have. I couldn't find any type of 'children' oriented building, food or item to help.

[astral ermine]

any beaver that has the "plant murderer" defuff currently will not breed

so that might be impacting the rate of population growth

[wise mulch]

YA, and for sure you don't want to use Rainy weather mod 🤣

[torpid patrol]

Isn't that something the Emberpelts hate, not Leaf Coats?

[sudden folio]

Mmm would 2 or 3 of my 12 beavers having the debuff be enough to cause having only 0-2 child in the colony. Yea that might be that, I'll try to adjust and see.

[astral ermine]

Population that small it could be a measurable slow down in growth I would imagine.

[torpid patrol]

It also depends how many houses you have.

If you just have 1 huge house where everyone lives there, and there's plenty of free child slots, then every time a non-debuffed adult enters (after the first one), there's a chance it creates a child.

If they're all in different houses, then it's only the second adult (and 3rd if there's more than 2) that enters that has a chance to create a child.

Basically, it's down to how the breeding logic works (and I know how it works, because I studied it and replaced it in my Split Breeding mod)

When an Adult Beaver enters a building (IE, to go sleep) a breeding event will trigger.

Breeding will fail if:

1. The beaver has a Debuff that prevents breeding (Being contaminated, injured, Wet (Emberpelts) or Plant Murderer (Leaf Coats)).
2. There is no other beaver to breed with (This includes all other adult beavers currently in the house having a Debuff)
3. There are no free Child slots (Children will occupy a child slot unless there are no free child slots, so if the building houses 6 beavers, 2 will be child slots, 2 adults + 2 children = all child slots occupied), my Beaver Faction Split Breeding mod ignores this rule.
4. There's a 5/16 chance applied as the final step, so even if they can breed they might not.

Therefore, if you have 9 adult beavers and 4 children (13 total), and a house that holds 18 (like the Emberpelts Tenement housing), it will have 12 Adult slots and 6 Child slots. As all 9 of those adults enter, you'll get 8 attempts to breed. It is very likely at least 1 will succeed, and you'll end up with 5 or 6 children.

If you instead split those into 6 houses of 3 (standard lodges), you'll get 2 Adults and 1 Child living in the first 4 houses, and 1 adult living in the 5th house, with the 6th house empty.

You'll get no breeding attempts.

It's only when the Children start to grow up that things change.

you now have 13 adult beavers in 6 lodges.

This means the first house has 3 adults living in it. No breeding attempt as there is no child slot free.

The next 5 houses will get 1 breeding attempt each night. With only a 5/16 chance, the odds say you'll get 1 or 2 baby beavers born that night.

Put the same 13 adult beavers in a Tenement lodge, which has space for 18, leaving you with 5 free child slots, you'll get 17 breeding attempts that night, Odds say you should get 5 baby beavers, filling the house (of course that's CHANCE, so you might not actually get all 5 in the one night)

[torpid patrol]

So... in conclusion... If you're having an issue where beavers aren't breeding, try building the largest houses available.

If all 13 adults lived in 1 Tenement lodge, even if 3 have plant murderer, that's still 9 breeding attempts.

though the largest Leaf Coats house only houses 14 slots. That'll split into 10 adult and 4 child slots.

So if you have 13 adults, that's 10 in one and 3 in a second one.

Small has 2 slots, no child slot here, and no breeding.
Medium has 4 slots, 3 adult 1 child slot.
Normal has 6 slots, 4 adult 2 child slots.
and as said, Double has 14 slots, 10 adult 4 child.

[astral ermine]

Leared something new, didn't know housing had an allotted maximum kit number

[acoustic yarrow]

I think the shaded icons for empty beaver slots in housing buildings show it

[astral ermine]

Guess I'll have to look closer when I get home tonight

[acoustic yarrow]

eg

[torpid patrol]

This logic even works for vanilla, triple lodge will produce more offspring than 3 lodges in Folktails

[desert rover]

I too have learned so much more about Beaver breeding. Growing leafcoats as plants is much easier. :p

But seriously, thanks for the lesson in the breeding mechanics.

[hidden cape]

Seriously, I've been playing so long... U3 I think. And I've never encountered this issue. Maybe just compounded because of the tree murderer debuff

[torpid patrol]

It is possible that if you have a few Plant Murderers and other injured beavers spread across lots of small houses, it can block breeding.

[hidden cape]

Ya that's what I meant. I've always been bad with folktails, and to that extent my first attempt with leafcoats, and breeding. I did a folktails helix and couldn't figure out why I couldn't surpass 20ish beavers. I just never built more housing. But I've also never been one to build excessive housing so I don't think I've ever triggered the issue where beavers go into a house and don't have the chance of breeding

[torpid patrol]

Since Breeding is triggered when an adult enters the building with another adult in it, it's also effected by working hours. And beavers that work a long way from home (so can't get home before the night ends)

[desert rover]

If you're more into IronTeeth breeding and it doesn't creep you out too bad, then I would seriously consider the pod people mechanic. Plant your beavers with your forester.

[hidden cape]

I do. I planted leafcoats on my second go and turned off housing breeding

[torpid patrol]

Greedy Nation with No Breeding Emberpelts and Leaf Coats, Phoenix Pods and Beaver Plants.

so only the Folktails breed.

But that's also why I'm working on this.

Can seperate the beavers to optimise breeding.

[desert rover]

Beaver Plants! I want to be able to grow pod people for all the beavers!

[torpid patrol]

with split breeding, if all your Folktails die off, there's no easy way to get them back.

[desert rover]

I'm sure you could find a way to make folktails pod people.

[torpid patrol]

I guess you'd have to get lucky and have Tobbert show up, and Battery Smooth or Lapantouflemagic roll as Folktails.

I mean... I guess I could make a mod, or option, that just makes all beavers reproduce with all methods.

though I don't think I added a dropdown option for Beaver Plants

so you'd just get a random faction beaver every time

[desert rover]

But... but... the most famous pod person of all time... 😛

That is Donald, father of Kiefer, of the Sutherland clan. 😛

Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1978), for those not in the know.

A good crop of beavers.

@torpid patrol Seriously, I am so glad you made that sub-mod. I love it!

[torpid patrol]

thanks

[desert rover]

I wish there were a better thanks emoji. 😛

[hidden cape]

You buried your planted beavers one level down?

[desert rover]

Optical illusion. They are level with the path. The green behind them is one level up.

I can envision a crop of EmberPelts all looking like spicy peppers. WhitePaws, FolkTails, IronTeeth... all grown from plants.

Even better the vine grown can still breed normally (for their clan).

[astral ermine]

which i find funny, because i very much prefer breeding and not pod population control

[desert rover]

I do both.

My colony was dead. There was one growing plant left. It ripened and from it I grew 4 more. And from those 5 I grew/bred my colony back.

[hidden cape]

This is where JCs paused breeding pod apocalypse protection plan comes into play. Pause a pod or 2 like 99% in case the worst happens

[desert rover]

I do that for IT when I play them!!! Oh, that has saved me.

I didn't know that was @limber mason's trick. Cool.

[hidden cape]

Some even go to the extent of making a separate district with food and water stores just in case there's a mass die off during a long drought

[desert rover]

I have never gone that far. With FT and IT, I do like a bot-only district to send into the bad water. Probably works for EP and LC as well, but not WhitePaws. ALL their bots can do is work as haulers.

With LeafCoats, I am busy making my bots be lumberjacks.

[torpid patrol]

Yeah, a well known trick before JC started using it

[hidden cape]

Ya. I just know he uses it. I haven't tried it, but does pausing planted leafcoats cause any problems? Drying out?

[torpid patrol]

I don't think you can pause the plant.

[desert rover]

Nope. I tried.

And if you chose not to replant them it says they died. 😭

[hidden cape]

Ahh ok. I must have just ripped them out then. I was having birth and death waves because they were all timed the same. Pausing them wouldn't make sense anyway

[astral ermine]

i always did like the trick of putting the breeding pods in a hole, then have a fluid dump set to the lower priority of jobs. when that job get filled, the breeding pods get flooded and no more beavers until they start dying off

[desert rover]

I -never- considered such a thing. Brilliant

[hidden cape]

Same trick for bot production. Flooding the factory and setting the pump at lowest priority

[torpid patrol]

Yeah, they die after the beaver is "Born"
it was either that or just delete it.

[desert rover]

Well, given that choice, I can live with it dying.

[limber mason]

I wouldn't say it's "my" trick exclusively, I'm sure I picked it up from a comment someone left

But it's been VERY useful lol

[hidden cape]

Ya I wasn't implying it was a JC exclusive. Just the first person I saw do it. It is a rather handy work around

[torpid patrol]

I've known about this trick back in the early days of like, U2 of the game.

Could probably have done it back in V0 if I knew about it.

[torpid patrol]

I didn't even realise this was broken, because Steam didn't update the game.

30 min fix for Script Pack, Emberpelts and Leaf Coats.

Fixed Automated Manufactory Power Consumption Switch for V1.0.8.1
Fixed Pneumatic Tube Supplier's power consumption code for V1.0.8.1

Updated to fix Geothermal Engine crash in v1.0.8.1

Updated to fix Geothermal Engine crash in v1.0.8.1
Removed Sound Emitter from Power Levee (It's not needed, and crashes in V1.0.8.1)

[acoustic yarrow]

I remoted into my pc to check, and found it had updated an hour ago (when it was supposed to be suspended)

[torpid patrol]

Heh

[torpid patrol]

I haven't forgotten about your custom beaver either I just haven't got around to doing it yet

[acoustic yarrow]

no worries, I didn't exactly give a super clear answer 🙂

[acoustic yarrow]

nit: the BlockObjectToolGroups blueprints should be renamed to have just aBlockObjectToolGroup prefix (the ones in the BlockObjectToolGroups directory), because each file is a single BlockObjectToolGroup.

[acoustic yarrow]

specifically:

• BlockObjectToolGroups.Industry.blueprint.json
• BlockObjectToolGroups.Platforms.blueprint.json
• BlockObjectToolGroups.TreeBuildings.blueprint.json
• BlockObjectToolGroups.Zipline.blueprint.json

[acoustic yarrow]

Updated timbertrees to latest version (picks up rename of "Large Wind Turbine" and addition of "Roof 1x1")

[torpid patrol]

True. Not sure if I will actually do that though as its a minor issue and would probably break when someone inevitably just extracts the update over the old version, keeping both files.

I should make a note to do it later at least.

[torpid patrol]

I made these changes locally and noted it in my change log.

Not planning to release it for just this though.

Emberpelts too.

[torpid patrol]

I'm probably not interpreting things very well