@stray dragon you should write video game in assembly
#Emberpelts - New faction!
rotund torrent
stray dragon
<@165886649513803776> you should write video game in assembly
not assembly, I couldn't handle PC Assembly, it's too insane.
I did start working on one in C/C++ though.
Even wrote my own file for reading .ini config files, but, this was over a decade ago now, before I knew about more useful languages like JSON.
stray dragon
A mess.
rotund torrent
Me too
stray dragon
The original version was in Borland Turbo C++ for MS-DOS.
I later updated to a version for Windows 95, but running on Windows XP, it wasn't the best to work with.
full pelican
have not tried Great cow basic for microchips? 😛
rotund torrent
Trying to mess around with dungeon keeper in code ended up kinda badly for me
stray dragon
I basically hit the MS-DOS program size limit, so had to migrate to 32Bit, which meant I had to drop all the BIOS I/O commands, and I never got to the point if it displaying anything, but I did have a 0 player AI vs AI battle simulator, that generates a team, and plays it out.
rotund torrent
Because it crashed off with my version and I wanted to know why. There was a missing string of code from the pirate one I got from uncle
stray dragon
It's pretty cheap on GoG, you get the MS-DOS version that runs in Dos box.
rotund torrent
I basically hit the MS-DOS program size limit, so had to migrate to 32Bit, which...
Always something, even if it doesn't work half the time
rotund torrent
It's pretty cheap on GoG, you get the MS-DOS version that runs in Dos box.
Yeah, that version works perfectly and I own it
I just can't find what the missing string of code was
Well, no matter now since I don't have to fix it
Also, wild how DK1 gets more support than DK2 in modding
Ooh well
stray dragon
its not as uncommon as you think. Game devs typically just make whatever assets work for them.
stray dragon
Sometimes that means putting them in some sort of archive. Sometimes it means using a file format that's not very friendly to modders.
stray dragon
The hardest part is getting the rope to look right
how long can bridges go?
how long SHOULD bridges go?
stray dragon
thorny mantle
I think 8 looks great. anything wider than a 16 span, bro you got bigger issues than spanning a 16 wide gap! 😛
IMO
worn tusk
I think double is a good stopping point, past 12 and you start getting silly
thorny mantle
I think going longer than 10, you would need access to both sides to make a full bridge as you can only reach that far? I may be incorrect in assuming this?
worn tusk
the normal 6 length can be built at the tip if the structure is green when placed
or reachable at the tip
stray dragon
what other things do you think I should add? I'm talking things like platforms and overhangs.
I have a 7x7 metal platform, 3x1 overhang with the support in the middle, 5x1 center overhang, 7x1 center overhang, 7x1 normal overhang, length 7 bridge and length 8 bridge.
stray dragon
3x10? 10 is long
worn tusk
er a 5x10
stray dragon
the biggest I have right now is 7.
stray dragon
could do a 3x7, but would that be Overhang style, or metal platform style?
and on top of that, where would the support be?
worn tusk
2,2
stray dragon
here?
worn tusk
yessir
stray dragon
Feels like a really strange place to put the support. Kinda like a hybrid between the 3x3 metal platform, and an overhang.
worn tusk
yeah exactly, a larger overhang with some built in width
worn tusk
just looks off from a stability point of view
stray dragon
or here
stray dragon
just looks off from a stability point of view
I mean, beaver engineering, you can put a 6x1 playform, on the end of a 6x1 platform, on the end of another 6x1 platform, etc.
worn tusk
i agree with you there
stray dragon
throw more ideas at me, can be other things too, not just platforms and overhangs. like Bridges, stairs etc.
Ladders kinda make most of the stairs ideas kinda moot though.
dull pine
Ladders kinda make most of the stairs ideas kinda moot though.
90 degrees stairs are cool. 3*3 platform with ladder in middle built in. A sloped bridge would be cool. There are many types of bridges that could be made. Search for different bridge types on Google. Variety is always cool
stray dragon
90 degrees stairs are cool. 3*3 platform with ladder in middle built in. A slop...
90 degree stairs are kinda made moot by the ladder.
3x3 platform with ladders build in could be cool though.
what do you mean by sloped bridge?
the end is on a different angle than the base?
though, as you'd be able to tell from my tenement lodge, entities like the platform with a built in ladder act strange. it wants to just to mark the entire top surface as a path.
if you think of my lodge as a 2 story ladder.
urban linden
throw more ideas at me, can be other things too, not just platforms and overhang...
maybe its interesting to explore deeper platforms, that will allow us to build against vertical walls more easily. I imagine they work kind of like lido's and pools with the base being higher than the rest of the building
I think this can work in very steep maps where there is little room for support below the structure, or if you don't like ruining the view by building brown supports everywhere
stray dragon
Hmmm, interesting.
I've seen molded platforms that can be placed on walls before, but not looked into how they work.
urban linden
yeah I know Tobbert made one, but if I remember correctly it cannot go higher than 1sq from the floor
also unrelated, if you're really wild, instead of ladders, beavers should have a powered elevator to go to higher places
sharp glacier
I feel like the Emberpelts would like to use explosions to go up.
Omg. dynamite loaded spring pads.
dull pine
what do you mean by sloped bridge?
The whole bridge is sloped. Maybe a 2 over and 1 down or up
A ramp basically but suspended
stray dragon
Yeah, I see
stray dragon
😛
making it would be pretty difficult though.
Modelling has awkward rotation pivots
stray dragon
maybe its interesting to explore deeper platforms, that will allow us to build a...
I do have the thought of adding a platform to the end of another platform... not sure if I can do that and still allow you to build on top. Not sure how cheaty it would be to do such a thing either.
worn tusk
whatchu talking about
worn tusk
throw more ideas at me, can be other things too, not just platforms and overhang...
what if you had built in stairs to a platforms supports
stray dragon
what if you had built in stairs to a platforms supports
Someone did suggest that sort of thing, but you need the path script for a ladder to work right, but if you don't have a path on the whole surface, you end up with strange results. Like my tenement Lodge. Place one and enter path mode, try and place path on the roof and the whole roof will light up.
worn tusk
that makes sense, i forgot a ladder is just a path
stray dragon
It's only a visual bug, and it's not so bad with the relatively small roof of the lodge, and with the limited number of them youre likely to have, but it could be a bigger issue if its an entity with a larger surface and used more often, like a platform.
I need to check the nav spec on the tenement lodge and double vertical lodge again, I remember there being a few issues.
worn tusk
probably a stupid question but are there any unused scripts mechanistry has in the game?
stray dragon
No idea.
Would be best to ask one of the other coders, I've only just started to look into it. Tobbert, Battery smooth and TheBloodEyes come to mind, one of them might know.
worn tusk
word
worn tusk
3x9
you could also redo the whole bridge system
instead of making them modular, make a set of 10 fire themed bridges, like a tied-arch or something new
overhangs have changed the meta of bridges, and they're used less
urban linden
I do have the thought of adding a platform to the end of another platform... not...
something like this? where the supporting tile (marked red for convenience) is the same height as the floor its on? Maybe you can look at the model for the suspension bridge, because that basically does the same thing right?
stray dragon
something like this? where the supporting tile (marked red for convenience) is t...
Yes, but that occupies the tile you place it on, meaning you can't put anything else on it.
I'm wondering if it's possible to do that and leave the support tile unoccupied to allow you to build on it unhindered.
urban linden
looks like there is already a mod that does this. I think its MorePlatforms
i forgot this existed
stray dragon
Yeah, that's the sort of thing I'm looking for.
being able to stick it on the wall like that is intersting too.
stray dragon
thoughts on a new windmill model?
stray dragon
dull pine
It's good
simple escarp
Ooo vertical 
hard lagoon
thoughts on a new windmill model?
Nothing wrong with your design, but I've always hated these vertical wind turbines, it just feels... wrong... like it shouldn't work.
How can anything that has a simmetry axis have an unsymmetrical reaction to a uniform airflow ? What sick mind came up with that ? 🤐
hard lagoon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical-axis_wind_turbine
Aaah, my eyes 😣
That's an even worse design 🤣
weak monolith
Why ? If it works, and, is working 🤣
sharp glacier
thoughts on a new windmill model?
It'd look cooler if the blades were a little taller rather than fatter.
stray dragon
It'd look cooler if the blades were a little taller rather than fatter.
Yeah, I was considering that. The problem is... How to stretch something without making it look stretched... or how to splice 2 hight together and not makit it look spliced? especially considering the bottom part is narrower than the top.
hard lagoon
Yeah, I was considering that. The problem is... How to stretch something without...
In blender through the vertices you can move some elements and stretch some others, it shouldn't be too hard to make something that looks fine
stray dragon
In blender through the vertices you can move some elements and stretch some oth...
Yeah, I can probably stretch it down by about 50%, but much more and the proportions look too off.
full pelican
you do know that you can strech in edit mode?
so you use xray mode from the side and select a portion and resize/move that part 😛
sharp glacier
Mm. You just stole it from the science huts, didn't you?
stray dragon
Mm. You just stole it from the science huts, didn't you?
yes
stray dragon
you do know that you can strech in edit mode?
so you use xray mode from the sid...
And yeah, that's what I did.
but as said, if I stretch it too much, it becomes too obvious.
sharp glacier
Does it really look that bad if you stretch it "too much"?
stray dragon
Paper looks less and less like rectangles, and even the wood frame starts to look odd.
sharp glacier
Pics or it didn't happen!
deft jackal
flame of unity not giving the fire bonus seems like a missed opportunity
stray dragon
flame of unity not giving the fire bonus seems like a missed opportunity
I could add the fire bonus, but it's a very long range entity, and I thought it was make it too easy to satisfy if I did.
sharp glacier
I think the Fire wellbeing bonus is more along the lines of "oh, I cozied up to a nice and warm fire", not "I saw a flame over yonder".
stray dragon
That's why I limited it to things like the campfire, Rooftop terrace, Excersise plaza that has a big fire pit in it, and the Brazier with a very small aesthetic range.
fallow imp
Coming back to this berry problem. The dry state shows the berries in blue. So a missing or corrupted texture?
stray dragon
Coming back to this berry problem. The dry state shows the berries in blue. So a...
I hadn't considered that actually, should fix.
deft jackal
I could add the fire bonus, but it's a very long range entity, and I thought it ...
thats fair, probably good for balance
full imp
This would be neat if it had folk tails varients as a faction exchange thing
stray dragon
Alright!
Emberpelts mod updated.
Project Phoenix update.
Ladder for Emberpelts updated.
and Emberpelts Choo Choo patch updated.
Emberpelts:
Edited Wonder colour scheme slightly.
Adjust the Clay mining time so 1 mine -> 2 kilns for bricks.
Changed windmill model.
Fixed small engine selection box area to not include the cut out tile.
Reworked the material patch script to accept Specification files! (Modders know what this means.)
Also added script for replacing materials on buildings.
Ladder for Emberpelts:
Added path railings under the ladder when placed on anything other than ground.
Project Phoenix:
Updated the script to make use of the new Material Patching script in Emberpelts mod.
Emberpelts Choo Choo patch:
Added MaterialPatch information to recolour the buildings to match Emberpelts scheme.
stray dragon
Coming back to this berry problem. The dry state shows the berries in blue. So a...
I forgot to add it to the changelog, but I did also fix the berry bush dry colours
let me go update that on Mod.IO and steam
full pelican
Emberpelts:
Edited Wonder colour scheme slightly.
Adjust the Clay mining time so...
this will be great so i can use the same timbermesh as folktails, and just edit some parameters textures👍
stray dragon
this will be great so i can use the same timbermesh as folktails, and just edit ...
it will be part of the stand alone mod I release, Material Patcher.
but if you want an example of how to use it...
Emberpelts itself, and Project Phoenix give examples of how to use the Material Patcher.
Choo Choo Emberpelts Patch gives examples of how to replace materials on buildings.
The problem it has though is that the Building Material Patcher can't change the colours of a texture, so if you try and use (Replace to, or from) something like BaseWood_LightBrown.Folktails or BaseWood_DarkBrown.IronTeeth that use the _Color entry to changes the colour of a greyscale texture, the result doesn't look as expected.
thorny mantle
Any updates on resolving Unstuckify issues?
stray dragon
I wasn't looking into that, Tobbert was, that's his mod.
it's purely a scripting mod too, so, I wouldn't know where to begin with it
That's also one of the reasons why I wrote the material patcher.
It can be a headache to try and decompile somebody else's mod to adapt it to work with a new faction. You don't have all the assets they used, so end up having to re-animate buildings etc. but the worst part is that prefabs lose all their scripts because of the GUID thing, so you end up having to manually patch them all, script by script, prefab by prefab to work with your specific copy of the extracted game files.
1 entity like the ladder, it's not so bad.
but choo choo has... lots of them.
it was easier to just change the textures on the folktails version, than to effectively recreate the mod from the ground up (though I could still import and use Tobbert's scripts, if I knew what I was doing)
thorny mantle
Gotcha! Thanks man, especially for all your hard work. I wouldn't be able to make a mod if my life depended on it. 
stray dragon
Well, this game isn't the easiest to mod. but I have come across harder.
trail steeple
Im getting a
Too many atlases loaded...
any Idea what Im conflicting with?
z Believe I Have too many mods loaded, I fanyone has a fast answer, for Running Emberpelts.
Does a Ember run need be streamlined down to minimal mods?
full pelican
Too many atlases loaded...
its a tell tail that your using mods as more then one factions material is loaded and can result in more memory usage but its not a Error its a Warning!
trail steeple
Thanks. That was my suspect. I will try eliminate them to find culprit
full pelican
if you have a crash happening can you upload the error zip in #🚀mod-users and i can look into it
stray dragon
Does a Ember run need be streamlined down to minimal mods?
I wouldn't say it needs to be streamlined to minimal mods, but there may be some that aren't compatible with it for whatever reason. So reducing some mods could fix things.
worn tusk
RKG streamin in 15
trail steeple
🤦 More paths mod was culprit '
thorny mantle
Mods that add things to the game usually don't work with WB or EP.
trail steeple
Agreed!. Yet if it doesn't conflict, it usually just wont appear, rather than the bl;ack bug crash screen. Ep has paths. hmm, maybe @hard lagoon could use this logic to get the ruined paths from the Mare Plants Map Maker Mod back into at least the Whitepaw Faction.
full pelican
@stray dragon 
i have this Materialpatch but nothing is happening
able to use the beta update and debug?
the one besides the levees should change color
stray dragon
<@165886649513803776> <:ThinkingIT:913808774576365568>
i have this Materialpat...
you don't use scripts at all, do you?
I'm not sure why it's not working, but I'll take a look at it.
full pelican
Ya no scripts at all
stray dragon
Ya no scripts at all
I'll send you a copy of the debug version of the dll if you want. Should tell you what it's seeing and if it replaces anything
just streaming to the game's log.
you need to have a building prefab patch specification file for a building and that faction you're using it on for it to tell you more than just the entity name of what it sees... but...
this is basically why it's not replacing the texture. Apparetly the name's on the entities are being read as MainAtlas.Folktails rather than the names of the materials.
full pelican
this is basically why it's not replacing the texture. Apparetly the name's on th...
Wonder if its because i use sub prefab to reuse it muiltiple times with different coordinates
stray dragon
Wonder if its because i use sub prefab to reuse it muiltiple times with differen...
I'm not sure. Tobbert helped me with the script so would know more about that stuff than me, but so far as I know, it should just use the materials given to it in unity, name and all.
full pelican
hmm have checked the different buildings and the patcher do not work for me shows mainatlas.folktails
this is the output both when having model under a child and at #finished no differances
IndustWaterTank.Emberpelts(Clone)
IndustWaterTank.Folktails
MainAtlas.Folktails3 - Uncolored21 (Instance)
1KA_DarkMetal.Folktails - Uncolored18
MainAtlas.Folktails1 - Uncolored3
does it have something todo with multiple models in the prefab? (constructionstages)
@main cedar got any tips?
stray dragon
hmm have checked the different buildings and the patcher do not work for me show...
I dunno, it shouldn't be a problem.
I have multiple models in some of the buildings I tested it on myself, but I guess I can do some more testing.
full pelican
had the levees done for dam decoration so working on replaceing the loaded sub prefab and this looks ok 🙂
stray dragon
Yeah
It does look okay.
not sure which of my models by default has children of children anymore. I know the windmill used to, but I replaced the model
full pelican
this is even prefab child the same component is reused multiple times
stray dragon
<@165886649513803776> <:ThinkingIT:913808774576365568>
i have this Materialpat...
I meant to ask, why are some of these blue?
full pelican
its if imported prefabs meaning there own files linked
so the child is from an other prefab file
stray dragon
so, like... your model is saying "Build a levee here" rather than including the levee as part of it's definition?
full pelican
see it as building blocks that you can reuse and if any changes only one place to edit
stray dragon
Yeah, I've never really tested this with that. what happens if you add a file to recolour the levee?
full pelican
but now with timbermesh its not as usefull
tried but nothing happended thats why i tried with the tank as its a most normal building with no prefab childs
stray dragon
did the tanks work?
full pelican
no
full pelican
hmm have checked the different buildings and the patcher do not work for me show...
this is the file i tried with and the debug output
stray dragon
hmm have checked the different buildings and the patcher do not work for me show...
All I can really suggest here is try using what it says in the log readout, EG MainAtlas.Folktails1 instead of PaintedMetal.Folktails
see what that does
full pelican
but the model has 7 materials....
stray dragon
and it only listed 1?
full pelican
it lists 3
stray dragon
It definitely feels odd
stray dragon
would even more debug readouts help?
full pelican
well will start getting pipes and aquaducts working then we can look more into this
stray dragon
I'm kinda running out of time today too.
full pelican
np
stray dragon
I don't know if it helps at all, but outside of all the loading specification files and tying everything together, etc... This is basically the entire script.
full pelican
wait does it have to do that i created new prefabs and try to recolor those
PowerLevee.Emberpelts(Clone) -- Prefab
PowerLevee.Folktails -- Model
MainAtlas.Folktails3 - Uncolored21 --Material?
nope no differances:
PowerLevee.Folktails(Clone)
PowerLevee.Folktails
MainAtlas.Folktails3 - Uncolored21
Those comments are correct, prefab, model (or mesh/renderer as it calls it) and Material.
full pelican
Wonder why its not finding all the materials and only a pack tho
stray dragon
Yeah, that's got me baffled too.
trail steeple
Is 'wet fur' avoided in Emberpelts? or am I still tryin wrap my head around base game mechanics?
worn tusk
You can check your well-being page to see everything the faction needs
full pelican
Is 'wet fur' avoided in Emberpelts? or am I still tryin wrap my head around bas...
they do not like to be wet 😛 so they get a debuff if they get wet
trail steeple
Lol AH HA so trying reroute em into water not such a good Idea
full pelican
ya 😛
trail steeple
thats awesome. the wet fur flags are disappearing!
stray dragon
New Large Lumbermill which is 3x3, and takes 2 workers.
Also a large Smelter that's 3x4.
The the question is...
Do I reduce the number of workers in the normal smelter down to only 1 to match FT and IT, so the large one has 2...
or do I keep the normal one at 2, and have the new one have 4?
worn tusk
they look so goot next to the other triple wides
dull pine
It's odd that the base game doesn't have upgrades for many basic items
stray dragon
Since you also have the smaller ones... Should the larger ones cost materials that they produce, to encourage you to get the smaller one first? (though the normal lumbermill is unlocked by default)
so the smelter costs scrap metal to build, but the large one costs metal blocks instead?
sharp glacier
Do I reduce the number of workers in the normal smelter down to only 1 to match FT and IT, so the large one has 2...
or do I keep the normal one at 2, and have the new one have 4?
I voted 1/2, because I'm struggling with actually deciding.
On one hand, four workers in a smelter sounds excessive.
But on the other hand, if you pretend the other factions had upgradable buildings, 1/2 would just match the other two factions instead of being better.
Is there any benefit to the larger building other than the number of workers?
Since you also have the smaller ones... Should the larger ones cost materials that they produce, to encourage you to get the smaller one first?
I love that idea.
stray dragon
> Do I reduce the number of workers in the normal smelter down to only 1 to matc...
I can't do a quote from mobile... do the larger ones offer more than just more workers? Not currently. It's mostly just more compact.
On the note of smelter though...
Vanilla recipe is wood fuel, 2 scrap, 4 hours, 1 metal block.
Emberpelts recipe is charcoal fuel, 3 scrap, 6 hours, 2 metal blocks.
This is per worker, so even if the normal emberpelts smelter had only 1 worker, it would still be more efficient and produce 50% more metal blocks. (both per hour, and per scrap.)
sharp glacier
Then I think 1/2 is a fine plan, if the recipe is already more efficient.
dull pine
Since you also have the smaller ones... Should the larger ones cost materials th...
Yep. Or just be more expensive in general. Maybe it uses metal so it's forced into late game.
stray dragon
this one is being a lot more difficult to design
and yes, as you can tell, I basically rotated it 90 degrees
worn tusk
crazy how quickly you're pumping these out
stray dragon
crazy how quickly you're pumping these out
well I'm editing the assets I already have. The hard part would be trying to make the FT and IT versions of these again, because I'd basically have to do my original process in reverse.
worn tusk
i wouldn't even think about FT & IT unless there's demand
stray dragon
on the note of demand, people are asking for IT and maybe FT version of the automated water pump.
worn tusk
it is one the best additions you have made to the mod
stray dragon
I was gonna look at the automation script for that, wasn't I?
is it better with the red trim, or black trim around the upper section?
worn tusk
Based on your in game screenshot, it seems the red would look better
sharp glacier
The red trim matches everything else I've seen better, but I like the black trim more.
thorny mantle
Red.
stray dragon
stray dragon
The red trim matches everything else I've seen better, but I like the black trim...
I personally agree with this.
Red matches the other buildings better, but for some reason, I think the black suits it better.
thorny mantle
doesn't match the others that are already red.
stray dragon
the other smelter is black too
sharp glacier
doesn't match the others that are already red.
That was implied by "Red matches the other buildings better".
thorny mantle
IMO, the top of all the buildings should be the same? Black or Red, not either or?
But again, I'm not the mod designer...
sharp glacier
I like mismatched things sometimes.
thorny mantle
So it's not my decision.
stray dragon
If you actually compare the Emberpelts color scheme to the other factions, Emberpelts are already FAR more consistant with where they put colours
thorny mantle
My OCD doesn't alike mismatched things. LOL!!
sharp glacier
I haven't paid enough attention to the consistency of the other two factions I guess.
stray dragon
Maybe instead of plastered wood (the red one with the cracks in it) I should go with Plaster Red (same but without the cracks)
sharp glacier
It's worth a look.
stray dragon
I changed nearly all ground floor materials to use plaster black on the Emberpelts. but FT for example, Houses use plastered wood (which is white), most other buildings use Irregular Planks Light Brown, but there's a few others too
similarly, there's probably half a dozen buildings on IT that use the Plaster Orange for the ground floor walls, but other materials too, like some have the Irregular Planks Metal.
I changed all the flat buildable roofs to Irregualr Planks White, while FT mostly use Mossy, IT use a range of different ones, including having not only a different colour roof on the Piles, but it's also the platform style roof with the crossing beams, with holes.
when I did use the platform style, I at least used the same colour, Basewood White.
Anyway, The large smelter
should I keep the current model with 2 chimneys, or change it to have only 1.
and if 1, Centered, or to one side?
thorny mantle
I like the 2.
sharp glacier
I like the two chimneys as well.
stray dragon
how can you judge until you see the others?
1 offset
and 1 centered
I like the 1 for one simple reason.
It looks less like 2 stuck together ¦3
sharp glacier
how can you judge until you see the others?
I have an imagination. That's how.
I like the 1 for one simple reason.
Whatever you like, I s'pose. I like how the two chimneys doesn't look like you just took the smaller smelter and pulled on both sides to stretch it like taffy.
sharp glacier
Yeah, the black looks better to me. Just too much of all that red with all the other buildings around.
thorny mantle
But isn't that the theme of the faction?
sharp glacier
There is such a thing as leaning to hard into something. A theme doesn't have to be strictly followed on literally everything. Some contrasting elements can be useful to help break up visual monotony. Especially when the theme is "red wood". No offense Bob.
stray dragon
That's basically why I kept it black on the original
it's why the sides of the upper roof of the large gear workshop (or front/back of the original) are wooden planks, not red plastered wood
just these few small inconsistencies from building to building, rather than the larger range on FT/IT
sharp glacier
Good foresight.
stray dragon
Yeah, gonna stick with black for the smelter.
actually, the design I dislike the most is actually the District center.
stray dragon
this part here being the red plaster, especially so close to the red roof, has always felt wrong to me.
thorny mantle
I'm still playing with an old version of the mod, because I don't want to mess up my current play though. I was the one that found the incompatibility with Unstickify. 😦
stray dragon
but the white plaster and black plaster both didn't seem right.
thorny mantle
Maybe change some of the red shingles to black?
stray dragon
I'm still playing with an old version of the mod, because I don't want to mess u...
I don't think anyone can figure out why that doesn't work. Even Tobbert has been having difficulty figuring it out
sharp glacier
I was gonna say that black didn't seem like the answer...
No, I wouldn't change the shingles to black.
Maybe a dark-ish brown? Edit: The circled part, not the shingles.
thorny mantle
same shade of brown as the logs in the 4 corners?
stray dragon
Maybe change some of the red shingles to black?
not easy to do because it's just a flat texture, there's no way to specifically target single shingles without changing the texture, which would change it on all models.
sharp glacier
They've done lots, I presume, to make the game moddable. But they can't just hand over the full source code or anything.
stray dragon
The models are simple for a reason.
though it does make modifying them more difficult.
being shorter might help a little
thorny mantle
I still feel for you man, I am too stupid to do what you do, and wouldn't be able to make a mod if my life depended on it.
stray dragon
if it was Vanilla, I'd probably just put brown planks in like this.
thorny mantle
That model look good, but I prefer it before it was squished.
stray dragon
thorny mantle
👍
sharp glacier
The brown planks actually look good.
stray dragon
Lets see how the currently unused red planks look
I made 6 plank textures... Brown, Red, Light Red, Dark Red, White and Metal. and only used 4 of them.
similarly, also made 5 Base Wood textures, and didn't use Light Red there either
sharp glacier
I still like the brown more.
stray dragon
I dislike the red planks the least from the 3 options (red plastered wood, and brown planks being the other 2)
The red plaster blends too much into the roof tiles.
The brown planks blend too much into the brown frame.
sharp glacier
Maybe, but the brown planks break up the redness in a way neither of the other two do.
stray dragon
What else would work with a bigger version?
sharp glacier
I think I am missing context.
stray dragon
double Smelter, Double Lumbermill, Double gear workshop
sharp glacier
Ah. Could I get a list of the production buildings available to the Emberpelts?
stray dragon
I dunno... x3
lets see...
Food:
Grill, Gristmill, Bakery, Press.
Clay:
Clay pit, Kiln.
Metal:
Smelter
Water:
Centrifuge
Wood:
LumberMill, Gear Workshop.
Landscaping:
Explosives factory.
Science:
Bot part factory, bot assembler.
I'd include a few others like farmhouse, Tappers shack and Forester, but the game won't let you have 2 of those.
worn tusk
double botmaker
sharp glacier
Oops, shower is open, I gotta snag it before it's taken again. Be back later to help think.
stray dragon
oh yeah, forgot about those.
Science:
Bot part factory and bot assembler.
Inventor hut and Number Cruncher are also here, but I'd rather make something new than a bigger version of one of these.
Bot maker has that ring design, with Unity scripts to make it function, so it's not a very good candidate for a double workshop.
@worn tusk
worn tusk
so you still want to expand and not making something new, eh? what if you could do both? double kiln
recipe for glass. silica from mine. impermeable glass panels letting you peek into a capped off channel
worn tusk
what about a brick wall
worn tusk
what you mean?
to go with wood and metal fences
stray dragon
to go with wood and metal fences
I had thought about that actually.
but still, currently no brick texture
stray dragon
what about making slim botpart makers
the problem with that is... what do you do? still only have 1 beaver, does it work at the same speed, or would it be slower for being smaller?
I'd probably rather go with a 5x3 or 3x5 and do a double.
on another note...
Should this be part of base emberpelts, or an extension mod like Phoenix pods?
worn tusk
what if you made them taller?
stray dragon
Also an option.
Another thought would be a machine that has a new recipe that produces all parts needed to make a bot.
worn tusk
a 5x5x3?
stray dragon
Or other dimensions
Bigger than the existing one at least.
Would probably take...54 hours per beaver, if my maths is right, 3x18.
Though with that recipe, it could go in either machine.
But if you have a big machine that can take 3, 6 or even 9 beavers, you probably want it making more than just 1 part
I also forgot the dynamite factory from the list.
worn tusk
double-wide excavator?
stray dragon
Again, unity script, its difficult to get working as it is, that's one of the few I have that is still mostly a unitymesh
stray dragon
sharp glacier
Hmm. I think it'd be fun to upgrade everything in one way or another, though I'm not sure just making a double version of everything is the answer.
I'd include a few others like farmhouse, Tappers shack and Forester, but the game won't let you have 2 of those.
What do you mean the game won't let you have two of those?
stray dragon
Hmm. I think it'd be fun to upgrade everything in one way or another, though I'...
When you have 2 farmhouse on the buildings list, the game crashes on load telling you it can't figure out what building is supposed to be for planting because there's more than 1 of them.
sharp glacier
That's...interesting.
stray dragon
I don't remember if it's gathering, planting or both, but I do know it doesn't like more than 1 for plants.
Because this is one of the things I would have more than one of.
sharp glacier
I mean, I guess I have nothing left to say because apparently there's just nothing you can do about it. Well, nothing as far as I, a non-modder, can tell.
hard lagoon
I don't remember if it's gathering, planting or both, but I do know it doesn't l...
For the farmhouses you can have one building per planting list, but you can share the harvesting lists, so for example in my mod I made a large farmhouse, it can't plant crops from the regular farmhouse but can harvest them. And if you give it some specific plants (I added pumpkins but whenever goes) regular farmhouse can gather them too.
It causes minor weirdness in the prioritize list but otherwise it's fine
stray dragon
So multiple gatherers but only 1 planter, got it.
stray dragon
Comment of the week.
worn tusk
Today they learned 😆
sharp glacier
lol
stray dragon
By Beach, I assume they mean Lido or swimming pool.
While I didn't match everything 1:1 with FT and IT, I did include extras in other areas to make up for it, so the total wellbeing is 75, which is the same as Iron Teeth.
I've never actually counted up the Folktails max wellbeing, but it's probably pretty close to 75 too. I know their welbeing from food is a few points lower
sharp glacier
I was wondering what they meant by "beach".
stray dragon
I'd guess FT have ~72 max wellbeing, as most of them seem to have a 1:1 with Iron Teeth (Same number of buildings, even if they're a bit different, with the same wellbeing scores. EG, dance hall and exercise plaza, Merry-go-round and wind tunnel, etc) but FT have less max welbeing from food.
simple escarp
With the wonder it's 76...
stray dragon
IT or FT?
stray dragon
hmm
Also, someone posted a comment on the mod on steam. Feels strange they the beavers dislike getting wet, yet have an extract bath as a cure for contamination.
They do have a point.
weak monolith
Also, someone posted a comment on the mod on steam. Feels strange they the beave...
Well, then add wet fur debuff to decontamination pod and everyone will be happy, except beavers 🤣
stray dragon
The original plan was to have medicine.
weak monolith
It's too easy
weak monolith
Nope, decontamination pod also require power, bath don't ....
stray dragon
That's what I meant, the decomtamination pod, but instead of extract, you have to make medicine for it.
and then you also get wet fur debuff
Not sure what we should make medicine out of though, I don't want to have to add the dandelion plants in.
weak monolith
Sure, ask lapan for brambles 😜
stray dragon
I mean, nothing new. They have enough plants.
worn tusk
nobody likes medicine tho
full pelican
That's what I meant, the decomtamination pod, but instead of extract, you have t...
vaporized extract?
dull pine
Also, someone posted a comment on the mod on steam. Feels strange they the beave...
What about a tanning bed? Might fit well.
stray dragon
vaporized extract?
Extract Sauna?
full pelican
ya
weak monolith
Extract Sauna?
I'm afraid of RCE . Will say a "Poo Sauna" 🤣
stray dragon
Do you think RCE would even play my faction? He's usually reluctant to play with mods. I know he has used them in the past, but he seems to prefer vanilla.
weak monolith
Sure will play if will see as a challenge.
weak monolith
but, not a tough one. He give up at Water Beaver 😂
stray dragon
I don't recall seeing him play that on YouTube.
Perhaps if someone were to suggest it to him. Not me though, would look like I'm trying to use him to advertise my mod.
weak monolith
I don't recall seeing him play that on YouTube.
stray dragon
Phoenix juice.
sharp glacier
What about it?
stray dragon
what do you think it is?
sharp glacier
There are several ways that phrase pulls my mind.
Considering phoenixes (what's the plural for phoenix????) don't make...juice, it's first a bit concerning. In several ways.
But if we ignore those and instead believe you're being serious and not weird, then I immediately think of Phoenix Down. Well, okay, I've been a bit obsessed with harry potter for a little while, so I think of Fawkes first, but Phoenix Down is second, I swear.
In context of Phoenix Down, it would be meant to "revive" a beaver. But since dead beavers just vanish, I would guess it could be your version of the decontamination pod for curing contamination. Since we recently had the discussion of Emberpelts maybe not wanting to dip themselves into a liquid because of their wet fur dislike.
(Also, unless it's a fancy drink of some kind, please don't call it Phoenix 'Juice', I'm begging you.)
stray dragon
You're on the right track.
what would you call it other than Phoenix Juice?
I have to admit, that only came to mind because I couldn't think of another name.
Phoenix Liquid? Phoenix Water?
simple escarp
That's much cooler than the Iron Teeth's breeding pods 
stray dragon
Well, the basic one still takes berries and water
worn tusk
i like the color, it reminds me of badwater experimental branch
stray dragon
😛
worn tusk
always wanted someone to bring those back in any form, love it
stray dragon
instead of 1+1+1=1, I think I'm going to go with 1+1+1=2, and have the pod use 2 per day, rather than 1.
but otherwise, it's basically done
do you like the icon?
worn tusk
i think it works but have you thought about how a droplet would look on fire?
stray dragon
So, I do probably need to add 1 more Wellbeing score to the mix, to match FT and IT...
Any other balance changes do you think I should make?
Like, I think the Corn Juice should probably give you more, because raw corn gives so many cooked corn
stray dragon
i think it works but have you thought about how a droplet would look on fire?
I'm not that good at drawing.
worn tusk
lemme load up and see
stray dragon
though I could put the fire icon in the water drop, rather than to the corner
worn tusk
like on the right top side being on fire could be easy and look okay
stray dragon
hmmmm
would be easier if I had a copy of it in layers
would basically need to start again
worn tusk
i think it stands out enough from the foods, and looks cool with the fire/juice combo
but it is my opinion that tomatos and apples should yield less juice than raw produce
2kg apples = 1kg juice
3kg tomatoes = 2kg juice
might require you to balance their growth and harvest
stray dragon
I think the apples/tomatoes -> juice recipe should be fine, I'm thinking in terms of amount you get based on yield/day per tile.
that's why I'm increasing the Corn yield.
also.
They don't like having a bath, but they dislike being contaminated even more.
worn tusk
10 essence?
stray dragon
Yeah, I know why.
I entered the numbers wrong.
it jumped ahead a bit, but, that's 10, not 5
worn tusk
did you change the BreedingPodSpec in the prefab?
worn tusk
well set that bad boy to 10 and see what happens
stray dragon
I did
you can see it
but yeah. The vanilla stats are 1, 5 and 2.
so I changed them to 0.5, 10 and 4.
So, ideas on where to get that extra 1 Wellbeing?
worn tusk
mudbath of essence
worn tusk
essence is oil?
stray dragon
Well, the Phienix Essence would be too, and bathing in it in still gives them wet fur
worn tusk
i figured if they're born in it, it must be healthy for them to soak in
stray dragon
Sure, but that doesn't mean they enjoy it
worn tusk
i hear ya, just giving my two cents
people dont like having to take their vitamins sometimes but it does them good
stray dragon
I'm not sure if I should just give them another food item or something.
Some sort of Decoration.
or an activity
An attraction like camp fire, would have to be fairly low level though, as I only need 1 point
Which is why the easy solution is to add another point in food somewhere, either just giving something another point (I previously lowered the stuffed Peppers from 3 to 2), or adding a new food.
Like... Berry Juice?
or drink the Phoenix essence? x3
worn tusk
i feel like people tend to think if it does before confirming, so it fills a void
grilled beet burgers? buns at bakery? buns + beets = grilled burgers
could apple pies get boosted to 3 with another apple?
stray dragon
hmmm
I don't want to make the entry level cooking option to the bakery too complex... but having said that, stuffed pepper kinda became the new default.
but, Apple Berry Pie.
I was also considering an overhaul in the food score system.
but, might be a bit too complex.
worn tusk
Nothing like a hot bun with a little sawdust sprinkled on top
stray dragon
like, you eat an apple, it gives you apple welbeing, but if you eat an apple pie, it gives you Apple and Pie Well beings. That means you can also throw in Berry Pie, or Beet Pie, and they'll give Berry and Pie Wellbeing, or Beet and Pie Wellbeing.
but that's probably a bad idea
worn tusk
oh that is clean
worn tusk
but also sounds very complicated to balance right
stray dragon
I actually ended up with less wellbeing than they are now
the problem is, you can reach max wellbeing from food, without them actually eating each kind of food, because you can get apples and Pie from apple pie, then you don't need to eat apples, or any other pie.
so if you pick and choose what to eat, you actually make it easier
so, the options are basically...
Add +1 wellbeing to a food.
Add another food with +1 Wellbeing.
Add another food with +2 wellbeing and reduce a different one by a point.
or something else.
Can even reduce food by a point (Emberpelts is already 2 points higher than IT, which is highest vanilla) and add something else with more than just 1 point.
is this a better icon for the Phoenix essence?
sharp glacier
Phoenix Essence
This. This one so much. I'm glad I begged.
worn tusk
10/10
stray dragon
This. This one so much. I'm glad I begged.
Yeah, I had to think about it for a bit. As soon as that came to mind, I said to myself "That's the name!"
stray dragon
Icons.
sharp glacier
I can certify that those are, in fact, 100% icons!
stray dragon
I'm going new comment of the week.
sharp glacier
...what does your wonder do?
stray dragon
Blast fire out into the air.
sharp glacier
That's it?
sharp glacier
Oh. That's kind of sad.
stray dragon
at least they got to see a huge fire
sharp glacier
Did you just not have any other ideas?
stray dragon
Partly that, but also I thought this would be funny
Also it was before I learned how to edit scripts properly, so this was something I could actually make.
sharp glacier
Fair enough.
stray dragon
So I still have that question.
Should the large factories be part of Emberpelts, or an expansion mod?
sharp glacier
Do you have any skin in the answer?
stray dragon
skin?
sharp glacier
Uh, maybe you aren't familiar with the phrase. Do you care particularly either way?
worn tusk
a tailor will ask you if you dress to the left or right
stray dragon
I don't even know what that means. I put a shirt on, and button it up.
sharp glacier
I don't know the tailor on either.
stray dragon
you mean like, put trousers on left leg first, or right leg first? I'm like... whichever hole is most accessible at the time.
I guess I do tend to put my left arm in my shirt first more often than right... if it's a button up shirt.
It's a phrase I've heard before, but don't know what it actually means.
sharp glacier
Back to the original question though, do you care either way?
stray dragon
as for this.
- it's listing fields I either don't know much about, or avoid.
- Are you sure it's not something specifically American?
sharp glacier
It may or may not be specifically american, I wouldn't know either way.
stray dragon
Back to the original question though, do you care either way?
Either makes sense.
On the one hand, I fear that if I include it in the main mod, it could break some of the original intended feel, or Balance to the other factions.
On the other hand, if I put it in it's own mod, it might not be used much.
The only one that seems to fit the original vision would be the large smelter.
That's why I gave the original smelter 2 beaver slots instead of 1, but was still practicing with the modelling, so didn't make the bigger smelter at the time.
sharp glacier
Okay, my suggestion then is to make it a separate mod that can work for any faction (that you program it to). It's a neat idea that works for any faction, and you could tweak numbers for each faction as you see fit.
Having things like this in separate modules is very useful for people who don't want it don't need to have it bog up their toolbar, and can use it regardless of faction.
Less people may use it, but I think the trade-off is worth it.
stray dragon
reskinning them for FT and IT is a lot of work... plus for IT I need to replace all the doors and windows z3
could do it though
sharp glacier
You could just keep them all the same colours and slowly work on replacing the textures.
stray dragon
though, IT don't need the large lumbermill
sharp glacier
If Emberpelts get the large smelter, then Iron Teeth get the large lumbermill.
stray dragon
I want to reduce the number of beaver workers in their smelter to 1, to have 2 in the big one.
sharp glacier
Hmm.
stray dragon
I mean, they do already have that more efficient recipe, having 2 beavers makes it as productive as 3 vanilla smelters
sharp glacier
Iron Teeth don't have a more efficient plank recipe though. Just faster since two workers.
stray dragon
True. I guess I could edit the big model to have 4 wheels?
sharp glacier
Or one larger one.
stray dragon
hmm
sharp glacier
Hold on, I mispoke. The original Iron Teeth version has two wheels, right? I meant add one larger one in the middle. Not just one wheel total.
stray dragon
Still WIP, but... multiple bot textures, remembered in save, and loaded.
and I don't think I mentioned it previously, but, Same with beavers. Their textures will be saved and loaded.
I needed to implement a new specification file so you can define bot textures
stray dragon
Okay, lets try this again with actual bot textures, instead of just applying beaver textures to bots
It's hard to tell what you're even supposed to be looking at with this.
I think I know what the teeth are, and the foot.
sharp glacier
Texture maps are so funny.
stray dragon
There's 4 bots right there. Normal one and black one on the elft. Then there's an orange one in the middle, and golden metal one on the right
here's a light wood one, and a silver metal one.
Okay, time to save/load cycle and check again
looks like they're all the same colours to me, looks like it's working!
sharp glacier
Woo!
stray dragon
Though the game crashed when I tried to load Folktails.
I already know why, it's because there's no bot textures defined, so the array size is 0, and there's no check for that, so it's trying to set the texture at index 0, which doesn't exist.
I just need to add a check to the bot SetTexture routine to only set a texture is the TextureID (Index number) is less than the array size.
since size 6 = range 0 to 5, index should ALWAYS be smaller than size.
there we go. now it works.
Okay, so... Summery of the feature.
EmberpeltsBeaverTextureSetter will read the list of textures for adult beavers and child beavers from the faction definition. It will pick one at random and set it (Overwriting vanilla functionality, but it's the same functionality), but also save the one it picked when you save the game, and load and set it when you load the game.
sharp glacier
Does the vanilla game not save which texture each beaver is?
stray dragon
EmberpeltsBotTextureSetter does the same functions as previously mentioned, but for bots.
the list is read from a BotTexturesSpecification file.
stray dragon
Does the vanilla game not save which texture each beaver is?
nope.
sharp glacier
I never would have noticed.
stray dragon
Also, unfortunately, a beaver is deleted, and a new one created when it grows up, so if they were born with black fur, they might grow up to have red fur, and vica verca.
stray dragon
I never would have noticed.
the charcoal fur emberpelt beavers kinda make it more obvious
sharp glacier
I did know that one from Greedy Builders.
stray dragon
Same savegame loaded from before the save last time, as you can see, bots have different textures set
I have 6 baby beaver skins now (up from 3, basically the same 5 adult red beavers, plus a black one), and 8 adult beaver skins (same 5 red, but 3 variations of black)
And 6 bot skins.
the normal red wood with 3 different metals, Silver, Brass and Gold (Brass is the normal emberpelts metal)
then 3 alternate woods, light red, Orange and Black, all with Brass metal.
Baby beavers and Bots are currently equilly as common, but Adult beavers aren't, all the red ones are listed 3 times, once for each black fur beaver, to maintain that 5:1 ratio.
in theory I could do it so adults keep the same texture as the child, but... 2 problems.
- Since the beaver is deleted and a new one created when they grow up, The only viable way to remember the skin would be to use Harmony.
- the numbers and colours of the textures don't actually line up between Child and Adult. EG, Child 1 is the same colour as Adult 5, Child 2 adult 3 and Child 3 adult 1. Not to mention whatever I did with the new 3. So I'd need some way to define what each can turn into. (As that black child, probably number 6, can turn into 6, 7 or 8, which are actually index numbers 6, 12 and 18)
Also, yes, it saves it by index number, not texture name, so if you change the order of the textures in the list in the factionspecification and bottexturespecification files, then they'll end up with a different texture.
worn tusk
What if baby beavers had their own set of skins that are different enough that they can grow up with an adult coat that doesn't need to look like their baby coat
stray dragon
Perhaps, but what did you have in mind?
worn tusk
Faint spots, stripes maybe, more neutrals beiges and some redder hues
stray dragon
Perhaps still black and red, but more with black on the red ones, and red on the black ones?
Some sort of pattern
worn tusk
Perhaps still black and red, but more with black on the red ones, and red on the...
Oh yeah
stray dragon
I guess I'll see tomorrow.
stray dragon
One of the new charcoal beavers has red spots on its back and neck
Perhaps I should just not have the black baby
Would make more sense if some gained rare black fur rather than red turning black, and black turning red
worn tusk
Yes i like
stray dragon
If I do the harmony patch to make the beavers match colours, I can just add it back in.
worn tusk
Sounds workable if you really don't want to rely on Harmony
Does texture file size slow down loading times by any margin?
stray dragon
I'm not sure, I don't have anything measuring times, but it is basically just doing something vanilla already does... though does it twice on beavers as I'm not suppressing any vanilla functionality.
I could write a harmony patch to skip that function too.
worn tusk
I found pretty decent reduction in filesize when compressing the pngs in both vanilla and your mod. Most 30% but some were higher
stray dragon
The main difference between vanilla and my function is that vanilla picks a random number, and sets that skin, but mine loads the number from a save file.
worn tusk
The main difference between vanilla and my function is that vanilla picks a rand...
Why does yours have to function like that?
stray dragon
To remember the skin used on the beaver, so it doesn't change on save/load.
If you're not loading a save, mine still does the same random number generation.
worn tusk
You got an extra file in the timber zip to keep track of the cuties?
stray dragon
I used the build in save/load routines, so it just adds an extra array somewhere in the save game file, just a single int per beaver and bot.
worn tusk
Was that implemented in version .20?
stray dragon
No, I'm still working on it, it's not released yet.
.21 is gonna have a pretty big change log
worn tusk
You've been pretty busy
stray dragon
Yeah, that's the main reason I haven't joined kiwi in pz
worn tusk
I figured as much. Why i didn't make kiwi feel bad gaming without ya 😅
Watching him drive can be painful sometimes
stray dragon
I see
You should give it a try. I also have a weekend game I play, and I can easily get burned out on the game if I play too much.
worn tusk
Hmm for $13 right now too
worn tusk
btw kiwi said he got his map running. "been running for 4 hours" that's all i know
stray dragon
oh good
The one with full metal arms and legs looks slightly odd, because it still has the normals of wood
stray dragon
Variety good, or Variety bad?
I think there's probably too many with non-standard colours
worn tusk
variety good if they have a standard
otherwise it looks chaotic mess
like if all the tails stood out, and the body had different variety
stray dragon
I mean, there's 4 different wood colours (Red, Brown, Pink and Black) and 4 metal colours (Brass, Grey, Gold and Silver)
Red and Brass are the most common because those are the standard colours
That's a nice shot showing off the 3 different charcoal coloured adults and the 1 baby
worn tusk
i know but you gotta see them working to understand how it'll look
stray dragon
I think adding in the full metal arms and legs, and the wood coloured tail is probably a bit too off-spec to look good though
worn tusk
this is a cool one
stray dragon
That's one of the ones I mentioned, with the "Wooden Tail" and "Metal arms and legs"
I'll leave em in, see what people think
Perhaps I should wrap up what I'm working on and publish it tonight, so Kiwi can explore the new stuff on stream tomorrow
worn tusk
tomorrow woohoo
stray dragon
Patch notes so far
Emberpelts:
Added Large Gear Workshop. 3x3 and has 2 workers.
Added Large Smelter. 3x4 and has 2 workers.
Updated textures on Smelter and changed max workers to 1.
Updated textures on District Center.
Balanced Corn Juice and Beet and Radish Juice Recipes. Changed from 1 hour to 1.5 hour, but gives 5 juice instead of 3.
Updated Underground Tank model slightly.
Added Phoenix Essence, made in the Refinery. It's used by the Advanced Phoenix pod in Project Phoenix mod.
Changed the Decontamination Pod to use Phoenix Essence instead of Extract.
New script to save beaver texture IDs, to make a beaver keep his texture after a save/load.
Added some new beaver texture variants.
Script also works on bots, and added new Bot Variants too.
Floodgates (All 3 variants) can now have (double or triple) platforms placed on top of them.
Added a new need "Juice" to bring total needs up to match vanilla factions. Satisfied by drinking any juice.
Project Phoenix:
Advanced Phoenix Pod now uses Phoenix Essence instead of all other ingredients.
let me rework that 4th line
worn tusk
woah district center limited, doesn't that inhibit early game?
i like the juice addition
stray dragon
woah district center limited, doesn't that inhibit early game?
that's why I reworded it. It's the smelter that was changed to have max 1 beaver, not the district center
I know that most people voted that it should keep 2, and the large one have 4... but changing it to 1 and 2 felt more balanced, and in line with the original vission.
worn tusk
it's your mod. sometimes asking what other people want helps you choose, even if it's not everyone's first choice when asked
stray dragon
They already have the more efficient recipe, so they don't really need 2 in the normal smelter.
worn tusk
whats the fastest the mine can produce scrap metal?
i'm sure you chose right, but if you cant produce enough from a mine to provide for x amount of smelters, then the smelters are overpowered
stray dragon
I think in vanilla,
1 FT mine can provide for 2 smelters (but then it is crap)
1 IT mine can provide for 3 smelters.
1 IT mine with the advanced recipe can provide for 6 smelters.
Before the patch, basic EP recipe can provide for 1 smelter, and advanced recipe can provide for 2.
the new version with only 1 beaver in the smelter would be basic for 2, and advanced for 4.
stray dragon
and it's released.
also a small patch to storage too.
Apparently, the entrance of the underground tank had a couple of missing faces.
so I had to fix all 3 versions of it
worn tusk
the new version with only 1 beaver in the smelter would be basic for 2, and adva...
can you elaborate? can 1 EP mine supply 2 large smelters?
or, 10 miners for 4 ironworkers
IT advanced recipe is 10 miners for 12 ironworkers?
stray dragon
can you elaborate? can 1 EP mine supply 2 large smelters?
I think so, with 9 workers I think.
I'd have to load the game or look at the numbers or something.
IT mine gives +50% than FT mine.
Plus has an advanced recipe that doubles it again to 300%.
EP's is only standard FT rate, plus a double to 200%
The smelter should use the same metal as both the FT and IT smelter, but use Charcoal instead of logs, to give +50% metal out.
worn tusk
ah yes better yield from high ore processing temperatures
stray dragon
so IT get +50% from the mine.
EP get +50% from the smelter
stray dragon
Anyone try the new update yet?
stray dragon
Emberpelts:
```Added Large Lumbermill. 3x3 and has 2 workers.
Added Large Gear W...
I think I forgot to include the line about the new flat top floodgates.
Was also thinking about adding more larger floodgates
Thoughts on that?
worn tusk
I think I forgot to include the line about the new flat top floodgates.
i think they're beautiful
what if you put the metal I beam icon inside the toolbar icon instead of the up down arrows?
weak monolith
I think I forgot to include the line about the new flat top floodgates.
It's your fault 🤣 Too many new items added at once 😍
worn tusk
i wish adjacent also meant above and below
stray dragon
I hate it when someone leaves a message that just says "The game crashed when I added this mod"
Okay, that's not helpful at all.
Some mods are known to cause it to crash, though I don't remember them all, Aqua Cadre is written there saying not to use it with my mod
I think I just left a reply saying "Was this a fresh install of just the mod, are you using other mods, or did this happen on a mod update?"
Anyway, feedback from anyone who's tried the new update?
weak monolith
I tried to figure how to use Unbelivable tall bamboo (from More crops mod) 🤣 . Else. all it's OK 😍
worn tusk
I had no issues running the update
weak monolith
stray dragon
I see Mixed Beavers in there too
weak monolith
YA, the most colored dance hall I see in Timberborn 🤣
stray dragon
😛
Looking at how the Mixed Beavers mod works, it'll make Charcoal beavers a lot more rare. (Especially the children)
This isn't really a bad thing if you look at them as exchange beavers, but I think as the code is right now, they end up being even rarer than the other faction beavers.
Did you check out the save/load feature I added? In theory, it should save the index of migrant beavers too, so that Water Beaver should always be a water beaver
weak monolith
And, how it works, is just with specifications 🥳
weak monolith
Did you check out the save/load feature I added? In theory, it should save the i...
Will check, but later. Some work to do in Unity ....
stray dragon
Sure
stray dragon
I'd say throw a few extra child6 in on the child list
Then 1 of each 6, 7 and 8 for the adults.
not sure how you'd want to add them to other factions, but 6, 7 and 8 are the Charcoal beavers.
worn tusk
I thought it was 1-6, did you add two more or am i misremembering?
stray dragon
Yeah, the latest version added 2 more charcoal beaver skins
fallow imp
Someone else on version 0.6.0.21 having the refinery acting as an storage option like tanks, so haulers moving fuel back and forth between the two? From the tank back to the refinery?
radiant briar
I was thinking since the emberpelts love fire, we need a portable flame thrower, items that get marked for destruction could be burned with the flame thrower.
stray dragon
Someone else on version 0.6.0.21 having the refinery acting as an storage option...
That sounds like odd behaviour
fallow imp
Did further testing after verifying the game files and this odd behaviour only occurs for the fuel. The other two produced liquids work fine and stay in the tank.
stray dragon
What's the recipe on the refinery?
fallow imp
Tested 3 (badwater, canola and beetroot) of the 5 fuel recipes.
stray dragon
So it's when making fuel, they'll take it out, but then put it back in?
I'll try tomorrow, see if I can see this behaviour
fallow imp
So it's when making fuel, they'll take it out, but then put it back in?
Yes.
Played on another map with earlier versions and the fuel produced with badwater worked fine.
stray dragon
Hmm. That suggests it could be an issue with the new phoenix essence recipe.
lilac maple
InvalidOperationException: Sequence contains no matching element
at System.Linq.Enumerable.Single[TSource] (System.Collections.Generic.IEnumerable1[T] source, System.Func2[T,TResult] predicate) [0x00070] in <78e29e3c9350441c83ba23ba1abe8e2c>:0
at Timberborn.ToolSystem.ToolButtonService.GetToolButton[TTool] (System.Predicate`1[T] predicate) [0x00013] in <349f583393d340869b0f697a4e7b9cdd>:0
at MorePaths.Core.BaseGamePathToolButtonHider.PostLoad () [0x00000] in <70ac98dfe4484f3d8d0e1f484fe0affb>:0
at Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleService.PostLoadSingletons () [0x00010] in <2cf8a69d91ab4139baf8d8d9e11adc45>:0
at (wrapper dynamic-method) MonoMod.Utils.DynamicMethodDefinition.Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleService.LoadAll_Patch1(Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleService)
at Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleAdapter.Start () [0x00000] in <2cf8a69d91ab4139baf8d8d9e11adc45>:0
@stray dragon do you know what is causing this?
weak monolith
Do not use more path mod.
lilac maple
Do not use more path mod.
Thanks. I thought I disabled it.
Tooo many mods. 😂
weak monolith
Thanks. I thought I disabled it.
Tooo many mods. 😂
How many have you ? Look at my save 🤣
lilac maple
How many have you ? Look at my save 🤣
I have 62. 😂
urban linden
is it normal for tomatos and bell pepers to not be affected by a flood? 😂
weak monolith
It seems that only beavers hate to be wet, not the crops 🤣
stray dragon
is it normal for tomatos and bell pepers to not be affected by a flood? 😂
not normal, no.
weak monolith
In the same time, hope that will no make crops to like fire 🤣
stray dragon
Did further testing after verifying the game files and this odd behaviour only o...
can confirm, this seems to be happening for me too.
@Devs this is probably an issue with the game engine.
It seems that if the same building has 2 recipes, where the one recipe has an ingredient that is the product of the other, they'll continue to take it out and put it back in.
merry rapids
Does wet beavers generate any separate notification like stranded beavers do? If not, I think that would be a good idea
stray dragon
It's possible that they can give warnings like injured and contaminated, but considering it's likely that someone was going to run through water fairly often, especially if you're trying to expand into a an area with water, I didn't want to overwhelm the player with these messages.
merry rapids
It's possible that they can give warnings like injured and contaminated, but con...
I don't think that it would overwhelm someone, unless there is some notification sound? All it would show would be the icon and the number of wet beavers...
stray dragon
hmmm
should be easy enough to add
Oh right, I think last time I tried it, it cleared all positive needs when they got wet
like they do when contaminated
stray dragon
So it's when making fuel, they'll take it out, but then put it back in?
On the note of this...
I'm thinking I need to either change Phoenix essence to cost something other than fuel, or make a new building to make it, like the medicine hut..
merry rapids
Oh right, I think last time I tried it, it cleared all positive needs when they ...
Oh damn
merry rapids
I'm thinking I need to either change Phoenix essence to cost something other tha...
Bell peppers? Perhaps since chillis are kinda like fire and bell peppers are from the chilli family and thus fire?
worn tusk
I'm thinking I need to either change Phoenix essence to cost something other tha...
Centrifuge?
stray dragon
Bell peppers? Perhaps since chillis are kinda like fire and bell peppers are fro...
it already takes bell peppers. I was thinking it needs a different liquid.
Extract would be the most obvious...
merry rapids
it already takes bell peppers. I was thinking it needs a different liquid.
Oh ok
merry rapids
it actually works as intended.
I see
urban linden
phoenix's arise from ashes
stray dragon
but I moved away from extract for a reason
urban linden
since uve already got charcoal and wood u could make something from that
stray dragon
phoenix's arise from ashes
it contains Charcoal too 😛
Bell Pepper, Charcoal and Fuel
merry rapids
Extract would be the most obvious...
Nah not extract, maybe a new liquid?
stray dragon
Nah not extract, maybe a new liquid?
I mean, it already is a new liquid.
I don't want to make a new liquid to make a new liquid.
urban linden
put logs or planks in an incinerator to create aashes
merry rapids
I don't want to make a new liquid to make a new liquid.
haha lol
stray dragon
put logs or planks in an incinerator to create aashes
That's basically how you make the charcoal, which is why it felt appropriate
urban linden
or you could keep it simple and just use the badwater (instead of fuel) because the color scheme makes sense
stray dragon
I'm leaning more towards using a new building
merry rapids
I'm leaning more towards using a new building
sounds good, perhaps Phoenix Altar or Rebirth Forge
urban linden
so keep the same recipe but use a new building to produce? makes sense as well
merry rapids
how about getting ashes from each building type that fulfills the fire need, and then this ash is used as well in the new building? haulers could empty the ashes from the buildings
merry rapids
1x2, 2x2, 2x1.
I think 2x2 with an altar like appearance
stray dragon
Phoenix Distillery?
Just the first version idea.
I could easilly pull the rear back to make it 2x2
but, I like these odd shaped buildings sometimes too
merry rapids
Nice, bit can there be an altar type of apperance on top of the barrel or something?
stray dragon
Could even change it from 1x2 to 2x1
what do you mean by Alter?
give me an example aesthetic
merry rapids
give me an example aesthetic
yeah I am searching online
merry rapids
give me an example aesthetic
Somewhat like this
AI generated, since I couldn't find exact aesthetic, and this image matches what I had in my mind
urban linden
does that fit in a 2x1 tile? 😂
worn tusk
that's pretty sick
stray dragon
does that fit in a 2x1 tile? 😂
Looks more like a 5 wide thing to me 😛
stray dragon
Somewhat like this
AI generated, since I couldn't find exact aesthetic, and this...
Does look fancy
I don't think I have the materials or skill to make that though
merry rapids
does that fit in a 2x1 tile? 😂
This is just for inspo for bobing
merry rapids
I don't think I have the materials or skill to make that though
Damn
I think it can be made from bricks and metal
Should use coal as fuel to make essence
merry rapids
I prefer the other one
stray dragon
I prefer this profile, but not this shape
also the things on the roof are backwards
worn tusk
that looks better that the 2nd one, but i might be partial to the first one
but 3rd one would take up less space
stray dragon
Well, they take up the same "Space", but the one with the door on the end is probably easier to squeeze into gaps
stray dragon
Any place you can put this... You'd probably put down a pair of hospital beds, or teeth grinders or something.
I think it would look better if I change the window though
Window on the back like this
worn tusk
yes to all of it
stray dragon
so how many beavers do you think can fit in here?
worn tusk
1 lol
stray dragon
not 2? 😛
urban linden
2 in the building, and another 2 in those barrel things
stray dragon
that's a vote for 4 workers 😛
stray dragon
Also, you can do this now.
Mod updated
Should actually be able to put (Double or triple) platforms on floodgates now.
Removed Phoenix Essence Recipe from the Refinery to fix an issue where haulers would bring fuel back to the refinery.
Added new building Phoenix Distillery to make Phoenix Essence.
Wet Fur now gives a warning message like Injury.```as skye storme says, "oh hell yeah"
stray dragon
as skye storme says, "oh hell yeah"
I think he'd enjoy playing as my faction
worn tusk
i agree. i wonder if he'll even finish the last map or start a new one.
stray dragon
that's a 12/10 building right there. can you change the bubble color?
I tried, more than once, but it didn't want to load.
Probably an issue with the material/shader
And since these are already pink (though just a little on the orange side) I thought they were close enough.
worn tusk
dont mess with a good thing
weak monolith
If you don't have industrial water tank .... This 😱
stray dragon
fun
Does anyone actually have 0.6.0.22? I'm hearing reports that some people are still on 0.6.0.21
full pelican
Working on water extention some but can not get material patcher to work and do not got time to retexture at this time
so the question is:
- Disable all but pipes as these is ok color scheme
- enable all items even if some is not right color scheme
- Seperate mod to enable incorrect color scheme items?
full pelican
weak monolith
stray dragon
Working on water extention some but can not get material patcher to work and do ...
Material Patcher can be a bit awkward.
Ideally, releasing things with the correct colours is the best option, but IMO, Releasing them with the wrong colour is the next best option.
You can always update again later with correct colours, either by updating the models, or getting a working material patcher.
If you want, you can send me what you currently have and I'll see if I can figure out why the materials aren't patching.
stray dragon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKePuofhiYU
I'll definitely watch this
stray dragon
Material Patcher can be a bit awkward.
Ideally, releasing things with the corr...
IIRC from last time though, they had awkward names, didn't they?
full pelican
Material Patcher can be a bit awkward.
Ideally, releasing things with the corr...
here is a beta version that add all buildings as dev mode if not correct colors
if you do not find anything easy to fix i will releas that version with only correct color versions for now
stray dragon
here is a beta version that add all buildings as dev mode if not correct colors
...
looks like it needs Timber Commons, a mod I don't currently have
full pelican
ya water extention need it if not useing that mod its fine without
last test was on an irrigation tower tho
stray dragon
which requires mod settings
weak monolith
which requires mod settings
Yet, don't have a mod that requires all other mods 🤣
stray dragon
It's one reason why I don't want Emberpelts to require any other mods
So, Water Extension Irrigation needs Timber Commons.
Timber Commons needs Timber API and Mod Settings.
Timber API then needs Harmony.
weak monolith
and, that's why all are trying to make them optional 😛
stray dragon
The first thing I've really I don't even see any setting options.
so the Timber Commons seems to need Settings, then appears to not use it
full pelican
think he only has them ingame?
stray dragon
I think perhaps I should turn on more groups too
it showed up in a game, but, mod settings won't let you change them when the game it running
full pelican
then you need to change from main menu
stray dragon
I've also just never really played Modded Timberborn before I started modding it, so I've never really played with Water Extension before, so I don't really know what I'm doing with the mod.
I'm still just setting up my debugging ATM though
I tried to output so much log data that the game just stopped rendering the text in the debug window
Yeah, going to place the big irrigation tower, and it's listing the textures as "MainAtlas.Folktails2" and "MainAtlas.Folktails1"
Are you sure that's not the right name for your materials?
okay, it's not just you. Apparently my centrifuge lists materials as follows.
MainAtlas.Folktails1 would be what should be WindowAtlas.Folktails.
@full pelicanI'm not sure if there's anything I can do to fix this.
full pelican
ya then i will need to do custom models and im not sure when i will get that time 😦 but thanks for looking
stray dragon
These are all Timbermesh, right?
In theory I could fix it by lookint at each instance of a timbermesh before it's used to make an entity, but I'm not sure how to do that.
I even deleted my code for editing non-timbermesh models pre-load. I know why that code didn't work now, but I don't have it any more to fix it
stray dragon
I think I'm trying something pretty dumb right now... but... it could be an entry point to fixing the material patcher
if it's dumb and it works, it's not dumb.
NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
worn tusk
stray dragon
Exactly
worn tusk
did you watch RKGs video from today?
i think he was having productivity issues with his refineries on v21 so he built more
stray dragon
not from today
I was talking to him earlier today though, because he didn't have V22 yet
He must be suffering from that bug some people get, where they don't get the mod update even though one is available
worn tusk
so he filmed some while it was out?
i figured he did some more recording before finishing the ep with the new update, or continued into next episode while playing.
could be steam though. would be cool to see version # on screen :p
stray dragon
Looks like he only just updated it now
worn tusk
they look great, brings more charm to the mod
stray dragon
yeah
stray dragon
Increased Power Consumption of the Large Gear Workshop to 180.
Changed Wonder to need Phoenix Essence instead of Fuel and Coal.
Removed Decontamination Pod giving Wet Fur.
Changed order of items on the Wellbeing tab.
I was going to try and write a new script so that the decontamination pod gives wet fur in a similar way to injury chance, but the code is difficult to read. and if it's difficult to read, it's difficult to make a copy do what you want.
it makes sense to have the bath give wet fur, but writing that script was too much effort for just that one effect IMO.
I know I spent about 7 hours straight working on the stockpile script, but I was learning when I did that. The needs one is just a pain in the arse.
stray dragon
plus the stockpile script is something I can mostly understand.
that and the texture fixing/replacing stuff
worn tusk
What about the big tank?
stray dragon
What about the big tank?
I mean, in theory if you had a platform big enough, that could work. But... you can't really do the not occupy corners thing, because then people can just put a triple platform inside the side of the tank.
Would probably have to be a special entity like the mine, or the bad water cover/rig.
worn tusk
I hear ya
merry rapids
Would probably have to be a special entity like the mine, or the bad water cover...
What about large platform (3x3)?
It could be used on top of all large tanks and underground tanks
stray dragon
What about large platform (3x3)?
The problem is that the legs of a platform occupy "Corners", and by corners, it's all 4 corners. There's not really a way to say that it should only occupy certain corners.
So if you allow corners, then you allow other platforms too.
stray dragon
Bah.
There was the bug that the mine could be placed off-center.
To fix it I need to mark the bottom layer as occupying Top, but that's the same layer as overhangs.
so if you have a bottom level overhang over the mine, it'll be deleted with this update.
I'd rather it no do that, but there's no other way to fix the centering issue
merry rapids
The problem is that the legs of a platform occupy "Corners", and by corners, it'...
Damn
stray dragon
topic of the day... Apple Trees...
I've got a few comments about my mod. One guy is saying how he just likes using lots of Apple trees, for both food and wood...
Yet another guy is saying that he needs way too many apple trees, he never seems to have enough apples to make pies.
Thoughts on this?
worn tusk
Maybe he should have an orchard since whatever he has set up for apple harvesting is inadequate
worn tusk
topic of the day... Apple Trees...
I've got a few comments about my mod. One gu...
Did you get the confirmation his beavers are getting all the other foods? It would be impossible to diagnose any issues without that
Of course he wouldn't be able to make enough Apple pies if that's their only food, that's by game design and nothing to do with your mod
stray dragon
I don't remember the maths, but I think Apples lie somewhere between Radishes and Berries on growth rate.
you know what, let me load up the unity
Radish is 3 every 4 days.
Apples are 3 every 8 days
and berry is 3 every 12.2 days
worn tusk
Still think we're dealing with two completely different players. If one has success with apple trees for food and wood, and another isn't able to produce enough apples. without knowing about the second player, I'm going to assume they're more a beginner that doesn't know how to play the game well
stray dragon
Consider that beavers also eat the apples, and can make apple juice, Radishes have the superior growth speed.
worn tusk
So I'm gonna assume a they aren't growing radishes
Kiwi skipped a whole bunch of crops first playthrough
stray dragon
when compared to other foods, because of that "eaten raw" nature, applies are pretty slow, look at corn, it's only 2 every 10 days but then you cook it to get 8
(also, that's actually crap compared to Iron Teeth, because they package 1 corn to make 5 packaged corn)
I'm just saying, apples could grow faster...
but then berries are really slow
it's hard to balance it
worn tusk
So it is underpowered? How do you balance something that works great for one player and doesn't work for another
stray dragon
until you compare the entire food tree, what it takes to make each food, it's hard to say if apples need a buff or not
That's why I changed the recipes and growth times of the Bell Peppers
and changed the Canola press recipe to give 2 oil per, instead of 1 like Iron Teeth
Give me a few minuts and I'll go through the tree
The final listing for each food wants to be food per day per tile, I guess?
or hours per food per tile, because food per tile per day will be less than 1.
keep in mind that all food items have equal hunger satisfaction, and same with drinks on thirst, so it is balanced for a portion, rather than a literal food item.
so lets start easy. Lets just go through all the Crops, even though that aren't directly edible. we can then use these values as a base for calculating the foods (Add the item values together, divide by number of items added), rather than doing the same process on each recipe.
We won't get answers for how many Radishes per how many beets you need for something like the juice recipe, just the pure land usage for each food item.
that'll at least tell us how far out apples are.
we can then go in depth on the apple pie recipe to see how bad that is, and if it's apples causing it or not
worn tusk
you could go back to your pie idea and make it a pie need
stray dragon
Radish: 3 in 4 days. 32 hours
Tomatoes: 3 in 5 days. 40 hours
Beetroot: 2 in 6 days, 72 hours
Bell peppers: 3 in 6 days, 48 hours
Apple Tree: 3 in 8 days, 64 hours...
I have a note here saying it should be 6 apples in 8 days
it's only 3
worn tusk
mangrove is 4 every 10 days?
stray dragon
Well, we have 32 and 40 hours for tomatoes.
apples would change from 64 to 32 if I change it to 6.
lets do maths on the pie
wheat is 3 in 10 days, that's 80 hours.
wheat to flour is 1:1 so still 80 hours.
apple pie is 1 wheat and 2 apples for 6 pies.
so...
2x64+80 = 208 hours. 6 pies = 34.66 hours per pie.
2x32+80 = 144, /6 = 24 hours per pie
what's corn...
2 in 10 days. 120 per corn.
or 30 hours per grilled corn
So... faster apples alone makes apple pies too awesome.
what if something between?
worn tusk
even with dual usage? what else is used it in multiple recipes?
stray dragon
it makes the apple PIE too awesome
Apples would be on par with radishes, it puts the juice better than tomato
lets do maths for 5 apples per cycle
worn tusk
i was gonna say 4 but 5 works
stray dragon
that's 38.4 hours per apple, making it closer to Tomatoes.
and 26 hours per pie. still too good...
but what if we change the recipe to only 5 pies?
worn tusk
how many does it currently make
stray dragon
only 5 pies makes it 31.36 hours per pie, making it closer to radishes.
6
Lets do the others too.
worn tusk
beetroot?
stray dragon
Canola 72 hours.
Canola Oil 36 hours.
Maple 96 hours.
grilled pepper = 2 pepper 1 canola = 4 Gpeppers. 2x48+36 = 33 hours.
Stuffed pepper = 2 pepper + corn + 2 tomtatoes for 6 = 2x48+120+2x40 = 296/6 = 49.3
stuffed peppers is terrible
I gotta AFK
stray dragon
Baked Beetroot, 1 beetroot, 1 canola, 1 maple = 6 baked.
72 + 36 + 96 = 204/6 = 34 hours per tile.
Cornbread, 1 flour, 1 cornmeal, 1 maple syrup = 6 cornbread.
80 + 120 + 96 = 296/6 = 49.333 hours per tile.
so cornbread and stuffed peppers are equally bad when compared to grilled corn's 30 hours per tile.
in fact they both have exactly 296 hours between them.
if I change corn bread to 10, that's 29.6 hours per tile, better than corn, 9 becomes 32.8, reasonable. and 8 becomes 37, which is still better than tomatoes.
Meanwhile, stuffed peppers takes 2 peppers, corn and 2 tomtatoes, so we could improve it by also requiring fewer tomatoes
that's 42.6
worn tusk
still at 3 wellbeing?
stray dragon
cornbread has 3, stuffed pepper only has 2.
also consider baked beetroot that also has 3, but only 34 hours per tile
Given baking time differences... these are the changes I want to make.
Apples yield 5 instead of 3.
Apple pie cooking time down to 1 hour from 1.2, to give 5 pies instead of 6.
stuffed pepper only cost 1 tomato instead of 2 (It's only a minor boost in time/tile)
Cornbread gives 8 instead of 6.
Sigh
info is out of date again, Stuffed pepper is already 1+1+1
208/6=34.66 hours per tile
it was balanced previously when I changed the grilled pepper recipe, but didn't update my notes.
so with these changes, all foods should have a time per tile of between 30 hours (grilled corn) and 40 hours (raw tomatoes)
Except berries at 97.6
worn tusk
any room for a berry pie?
stray dragon
While I could add in Berry pie, I don't really want to have to add in another need for it. so if I did, I'd change apple pie need to just Pie, and both pies would satisfy this need.
plus berry pie would have a bad grow time value, as even if I make it cost only 1 berry, isntead of 2 apples, the grow time for a berry is more than double.
lets do the maths on juices for fun
lets see, we need numbers...
Radish: 3 in 4 days. 32 hours
Tomatoes: 3 in 5 days. 40 hours
Beetroot: 2 in 6 days, 72 hours
Corn: 2 in 10 days, 120 hours
Apple Tree: 5 in 8 days, 38.4 hours...
Tomato juice and apple juice are 2:3
Tomato Juice 26.666 hours
Apple Juice 25.6 hours
Radish and beet = 32+72 =104/5 = 20.8
Corn = 120/5 = 24
Radish and beet would have been more balanced at 4, not 5, which is 26 hours.
corn also costs Water
Should I change Radish and Beet juice to 1.2h for 4 juice?
worn tusk
what's the hours on that?
stray dragon
As it is now it's 20.8, but if I change it, it would be 26, very close to Tomato and Apple juices.
worn tusk
might as well since it's all the same juice need?
stray dragon
the times are a bit wonky too, lets see...
apple and tomato are 3 per hour, or 0.333 hours per item.
corn juice is is 1.5h for 5, or 0.3h
Actually, Red Juice (Beet and Radish) and Corn Juice also have their own needs.
Apple juice satisfies Apples, and Tomato Juice satisfies Tomatoes.
they all otherwise all satisfy Juice
So assuming your beavers are going to also be eating apples and Tomatoes, you only really need to make Red Juice and Corn Juice.
but then they'll over-drink it (when they don't need to fulfil the need)
the way the game works is a bit strange sometimes.
they'd rather drink the corn juice, even though the juice and corn juice needs are satisfied, than drink water.
Which is fitting for Emberpelts, but wastes corn.
so I am slightly torn between reducing the amount from red juice
on that note, I am wondering if I should add a 3rd ingredient to it.
Internally, it's "Red Juice", not Beet and Radish Juice, Red Juice
and I remember when looking up the recipe, there are usually other ingredients in the IRL version of the juice.
Apples being one of them, but I didn't want to include apples.
I could put bell peppers in there... or maybe Berries, you want me to use berries for something, right?
worn tusk
they get neglected after early game
stray dragon
Because they're pointless after early game, unless you have Phoenix pods.
worn tusk
i mean forgotten
exactly
should just get rid of them entirely and have some apple trees to start your colony with
or...use them
stray dragon
They are used in Antidote for Folktails, so in theory I could also add it to the Phoenix essence, but I put bell peppers in there because it's more fitting.
worn tusk
imma run to the store
stray dragon
to buy berries? 😛
worn tusk
caffeine lol
stray dragon
those are kinda berries
Beetroot juice recipe...
Beetroot, Apple, Carrot (substitude Radish for Carrot)
Radish juice recipe.
Radishes, Apples, Beetroot and Celery
so yeah... Radish, Beetroot and Apple is the recipe, but I didn't want to include an apple, because I already have apple juice.
stray dragon
I'll just cut the output to 4, as previously mentioned
worn tusk
well if you ever add the fermenter
stray dragon
I think Emberpelts have enough buildings
worn tusk
call it a brewer