BeaverBuddies

[ivory burrow]

then type ipconfig and hit enter

You're on the same LAN right?

like in the same house

[wide cradle]

Not in the same house

[ivory burrow]

That gets harder then

[wide cradle]

hmm, ill try you staps, hopefully that still works igg

[ivory burrow]

I don't think it will work actually

https://github.com/thomaswp/BeaverBuddies/wiki/Port-Forwarding-Guide

[wide cradle]

thx, ill read this and hopefully it works 😉

[floral flame]

Hey BeaverBuddies! I've created a beta release with Steam P2P networking support, so you don't need port forwarding. I'd love a few folks to test it (including someone not using steam, with standard direct connect) before I deploy. I'll need to do some more testing myself, but it's a pretty big change to the codebase and I'm afraid I've introduced a bug or three. Here's a link: https://g-3659.modapi.io/v1/games/3659/mods/3726597/files/6476635/download

Let me know if you're able to give it a test

[floral flame]

If you're on steam this might solve your problem, though a warning that it is still very much in beta right now

Thanks! All of these are things I just haven't done yet, so I've added an issue and will address when I can.

[floral flame]

@sand bough and @split sluice and @forest hill and anyone else who might be willing to contribute to BeaverBuddies, I made a video showing the basic process for addressing desyncs due to unimplemented UI events. Here's a draft contributing guide: https://github.com/thomaswp/BeaverBuddies/wiki/Contributing with the video linked. Let me know if you're interested!

[split sluice]

I will check this weekend. Ty very much.

[floral flame]

Though I admit the video is a bit rambly (and in English), so I'll try to accompany with other written resources as well.

[stone plover]

can anyone offer some advice on how to use hamachi for beaverbuddies?

i have the network created, but i am unsure on how to proceed from there

[velvet elbow]

My advice is to not use hamachi at all, they are shady as hell and ZeroTier is way easier to explain to your friends

[stone plover]

i only used hamachi as it was on the github page

[velvet elbow]

Yeah no worries, I tried it too but it was a pain in the butt getting all my friends installed and connected

[stone plover]

can connect to the network with my friend, issue is connecting to the game

like he pasted the IP from hamachi into the box and it gave cant connect error

even tried with port 25565 on the end, still no luck

[velvet elbow]

Hmmmm

And it was the local address?

Like 192.168 yada yada?

[stone plover]

wait am i being dumb

i copied the IP from hamachi network

Damn it, i think i gotta use my actual IP right?

[velvet elbow]

I haven't tried the mod in a hot second but I'm fairly certain the local address is correct

Like if you run ipconfig you should see it

[stone plover]

ohhhh i have to give them that one

[velvet elbow]

It'll start with 192.168.1

[stone plover]

not the network IP from hamachi app?

or my global ip

[velvet elbow]

Yeah buddy, if you're both on hamachi you're pretending to be at the same house, so you treat it like a LAN party and use the local address

I believe so

Again, it's been a minute, but I'm fairly certain that's the one

[stone plover]

Will give it a try when my friend is home from work

[velvet elbow]

Good luck!

[stone plover]

Thank you kindly

[stone plover]

Tried with local IP, still issues

[stone plover]

Issue solved via port forwarding

now how do we start as separate districts

[floral flame]

You need to download a supported custom map first (or create your own). Link here on Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3372147096

Then start a new game (solo) and select it:

Then specify how many players you want (up to the number mentioned in the map)

You'll notice there are multiple starting locations, each with their own settlement. Then save the game and rehost it in multiplayer.

Sorry you can't start in multiplayer - just doesn't work.

[floral flame]

See above

[stone plover]

ah okay

we'll try again after it's a little more stable, got 2 desyncs in like 5 minutes

very nice so far though!

[dry shell]

Path placement is an issue make sure to place them down slowly

[stone plover]

So dont drag to place, place them one by one?

[floral flame]

Drag shouldn't be an issue. It's more double-clicking fast, or if you and your friend both place a path that intersects at the same time

Hey thanks for all this. Should be fixed in the next release.

[floral flame]

Also, in the next release, this bug should be fixed - should be later this week or this weekend.

[stone plover]

Awesome

[violet plank]

after todays timberborn update (2025-06-25 ) when the game desyncs the host's game crashes to desktop, quite annoying as we have to rely on autosaves.... is it only us or it's a common problem that will be solved ? thanks

[floral flame]

I can look into it. Can you please post your player log + save game, or your crash report .zip, here or as an issue on the GitHub?

[terse salmon]

For some reason no matter what I do the mod tells me that I can not connect to the host

Would this be a firewall issue?

I have done the PortFowarding already

[boreal wave]

hihi

[violet plank]

error report and saved game, we found out that it crashes to desktop only if we select rehost, if we just click no we can save the game and rehost it without crashing timberborn, i hope that this error report might help you anyway

[violet plank]

btw we started a new game on a new map and "save and rehost" still crashes the game to desktop

[cerulean widget]

Yep. One of the clients can click no and save the map and then send it to the host

[floral flame]

Thanks! Based on the error, are you on the experimental branch? The mod doesn't support it yet. Based on my timberborn version, that error shouldn't be happening

Hmm, the logs suggest not - Ok, I'll look into it

[floral flame]

Ok, I think I know what's going on. Very minor issue, should be fixed in the next release, which I can try to get out this weekend.

[violet plank]

not on experimental 🙂 thanks for this amazing mod btw, i hope it will grow and become stable even with bigger maps 🙂

[lean saffron]

I know the instructions say it does not work with other mods? But has anyone actually tried it? Is it just some mods or all mods don't work?

[jovial lion]

Anything that relies on Harmony is likely to break or behave incorrectly

Also beyond that, you can always do that science yourself, and let others know what does and doesn't work?

[boreal wave]

no :C im on normal branch

[floral flame]

Sorry, it's been hard to find time to deploy the fix because I need to do some testing of other features that will go out. In the meantime, just save and rehost manually

[kind condor]

@floral flame did you deploy the experimental branch mod to the steam workshop? i show an update from a few hours ago that causes a crash to desktop at the main menu

nevermind - it seems that mod settings is now a dependancy that isn't auto installed by steam

i figured it out - for anyone else running into this issue:

[wise sedge]

For some reason I keep on unsyncing when a bad tide happens

[floral flame]

That's correct. It shows in the changelog, but I don't think there's a way to warn about it when it auto-updates

[modern flame]

Hello, Is this mode still in development or is it working? If so, what session settings do you recommend to play as comfortable as possible?

[wise sedge]

badtides seem to have code which causes desyncs

[kind condor]

for what its worth, ive played like 12-14 hours worth in the last couple of days and havent hit a desync issue with a bad tide/season change

[modern flame]

OK thanks

[modern flame]

Are you connecting via Steam or Hamachie? And which game mode do you play: Co-op or Versus?

during your game

[floral flame]

There is no versus mode per se, and all controls are shared so it's intended for co-op. You can decide to have one or multiple starting points (see earlier comments on how to use a multiplayer map). If you know how to use Hamachi and it's working for you, I'd use that; otherwise try steam.

[modern flame]

Yes, thank you. I'm playing with my friend and Steam works very well.

Thanks for this mod

[violet blaze]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3522273920

@zinc widget helped with tweaking for multiplayer

[violet blaze]

@floral flame

[kind condor]

just through steam/direct ip with port forwarding, and coop, though, all with realtively seperate areas and our own rivers etc to manage - its more like 3x single player games occuring together that we can all yap about

one thing to keep in mind is that any map can be quickly edited with the mod enabled to add 2/3/4 starting positions and shared to other people, so while the steam workshop map pool is quite limited for beaver buddies - this is somewhat easily resolved if you just find a map you wanna play on

[floral flame]

Nice! Added it to the collection of MP maps: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?edit=true&id=3372147096

[floral flame]

I would also recommend making sure each starting location has ample trees and berries, and consider how damming at one location would affect others.

[stone onyx]

hello i tried installing the mod from mod io with the mod manager on GOG version and the game crashes with this log

[stone onyx]

nvm was using the experimental version of the game

fixed after using main branch

[midnight crown]

i use this and mod settings it has NEVER failed me

[kind condor]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3524980556

I dabbled in map making for those kinda folks that enjoy a bit of a rough start if you're playing on hard with friends and seeing how they tackle the same problems - it's not a co-op map, its 4x single player games on the same map.

[grim thorn]

Hello, we may be some of us encountering a bug while loading the game with the new today steam patch , so I created an issue : https://github.com/thomaswp/BeaverBuddies/issues/79

[kind condor]

#1203786573142032445 message
download_depot 1062090 1062091 5572968329001314155

@grim thorn you can use the above to download the previous version of timberborn until the mod is updated

the bit i put in is the updated manifest id since what was in that post was previous one the last time this happened

https://steamdb.info/depot/1062091/manifests/
this is the link to get the manifest IDs in the future should this happen again 🙂

[grim thorn]

Thanks we make it work, I prevent my girlfriend to download the update and she already sent me here install. Hope it helps other people to patiently wait for a fix

[kind condor]

no doubt ill be talking people through how to do this later tonight so we can play too

[zinc widget]

its not really too hard to do with a few searches online on where to find the depot download location

[floral flame]

Glad there's a way for you all to keep using it when I don't have time for a quick fix! But today I did. Should be working again - let me know if you're having issues.

[zinc widget]

at least it started normally without a crash but havent tried to play coop yet

[kind condor]

worked fine for us today

its very minor @floral flame - setting a water level limit on the water pumps of both factions isn't a control that syncs across the game, and will desync the game when the pump toggles on/off on that players client

i assume all of the different water pump types and mechanical fluid pump will have the same issue, but have only tested it on the basic frresh water pumps

[random arch]

I get the Uh oh... a bug error whenever trying to place the district crossing in the coop game im running not sure if related

Got around it by starting the coop game alone placing the district crossing saving and then restarting game with both players fyi for anyone else that run into that

[floral flame]

Thanks. This is a known issue, at least as a desync.

Hmm, actually @random arch what you're describing might be a bit different. Would you post an issue here? https://github.com/thomaswp/BeaverBuddies/issues

Most important think is to include the error log if you have it, in case I can't reproduce

[random arch]

Cool just posted it

[junior drum]

im not sure if this is something that has already been resolved i tried checking. does the 1.5 version of the mod form mod.io work with the steam version 1.5.1? cause my friend doesnt have the game on steam and we have had problems trying to connect to eachother

[blazing smelt]

We're consistently getting the issue that the mod won't do the 'initial sync', as in the client can connect to me just fine but then it just silently desyncs or something. Beavers tend to just kinda spaz out on the spot and the playback speed doesn't have an effect either (though interestingly enough if the client presses play it'll also start playing for me, but then nothing really happens afterwards). Any others with this problem, or has my map just become too big or something?

[kind condor]

i've never enoucnterd that, even with 4 players and over 1000 beavers total

[livid hawk]

Are there any content mods this is compatible with? Was trying this out with my buddies the other day, and had disable everything but mod settings and this to not crash.

[tidal cove]

Hypothetically it should be compatible with anything that doesn't rely on harmony, but there's exceptions

Beaverbuddies uses harmonyx which is incompatible with regular harmony

[whole schooner]

is it just me or is beaverbuddies broken since the last game Patch?

[weak bluff]

is there a fix to this?

[whole schooner]

[cerulean widget]

mod is still working for me. going to hack on the issues soon. anyone here is "SamuZad"? maybe we can combine our efforts

[somber dragon]

It’s me

If you check out my fork (main branch), I’ve actually come to the conclusion that a “larger network rewrite” would probably be quite useful 😁 because at least for the people I play with, the forced drop and rehost is the most disruptive

Parts of the rework (90% drop in network traffic, due to not using json for communication etc) are already done and I have a good idea of "what should be done", I think.. but I at least wanted to talk to the mod creator about my other PRs and their vision for the project, before I went too far down this rabbit hole 😅

[cerulean widget]

hah ok yeah Ive seen the rewrite. keep up the good work! I am going to look into the desyncs on saturday and got some input from @floral flame via PM

[short dome]

Is the overlapping in the Video https://github.com/thomaswp/BeaverBuddies/wiki
Only to show that both have same area or will the game show two Screen when mod activated

[tawny basin]

Hi autor! Does it work with Map Resiser mod?

[tawny basin]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3551399947

@floral flame Made a map based on your mod!

[floral flame]

I've got a hopefuly fix for the Mod.io issues, but no one to test it. Would you friend be willing to do that? I'll just push them in the next update and hopefully it'll start working.

[floral flame]

Unfortunately very few mods will work with this one. If they modify game code at all, it's unlikely to work. One day I'll work on adding a library for other devs to make compatible mods but that's a ways away.

[floral flame]

Wow, I'm genuinely impressd you got that to work 😮

[floral flame]

Can you say more about what doesn't work? Post and issue or desync on GH please: https://github.com/thomaswp/BeaverBuddies/issues

[floral flame]

Haven't tested. It's possible

[bright arch]

@floral flame As a non Steamplayer I got the mod from mod.io (version 1.5.0) and it always crashes. Tried downgrading to different versions- no result. Do u have any recommendation?

[floral flame]

Hey everyone! Version 1.5.2 is should be out now:

• Fixed desyncs related to moving contaminated beavers and changing the water depth limit on pumps
• Name updates made through the overview panel should now sync
• Non-steam players should now be able to use the mod again

[floral flame]

Try the new version and see if it works for you. I can't test, but I'm hopefuly it will. And if not, send me your errors.

[tawny basin]

Please could you add it to the mod map collection section?

[split sluice]

@floral flame
We played yesterday with a friend, he was on the GOG client, and I was on Steam. We managed to play for 4 hours without any desync at all. There are still a few issues with pause management during interactions, but aside from that, the experience was truly fantastic!

[cerulean widget]

can confirm that it runs pretty smooth, yet we got another desync during badtide. something around water is still desyncing but not reproducible

[floral flame]

Done!

[whole schooner]

found out, that the issue is only occuring, if beaverbuddies is loaded after harmony in the mod selection. why that is, i do not know
but loading modsettings first, then beaver buddies, then harmony and the rest of the mods solved the issue...

[sullen granite]

hey me and my buddy have a little problem he is hosting, invites me through steam, game shows "downloading map..." message box with OK and nothink happens afterward

this shows up and nothing happens

[tropic robin]

interested

?

anyone wanting to play?

[livid hawk]

I know that for large maps my group had the same issue, so if you're using a larger map that could be it.

Our fix was loading a small map, then going to main menu and loading into the large map.

[tropic robin]

@sullen graniteyo you got a spot left?

[whole schooner]

the steam connect mode does not work for us at all. when my buddy connects, he gets the map and the moment we unpause, we instantly have a desync. doing it like before with direct connect and port forwarding works fine

[prime vigil]

Hi all, have found this mod today, and the game does not want to start at all. Has anyone else been having this issue and found a way to fix it?

[velvet elbow]

Are you getting an error about a missing dependency?

I had to go into the steam workshop and manually subscribe to the exact thing it was missing before it could launch, I'm not exactly sure why it doesn't grab it automatically anymore

[prime vigil]

have added mod settings but am now getting a saying oh oh... a Bug and the only option i have is to exit game

[velvet elbow]

Hmmmm, are you on the latest version of the game, and not the beta?

[prime vigil]

yer we are on the main branch

[velvet elbow]

Also I came back to the mod after like 6 months and was having some trouble getting the two mods updated, so I ended up fully deleting the game and reinstalling

[prime vigil]

even attempted with the Beta as a hmm, i wonder if this will work.

Mestoth is working off a fresh install as of like 20 minutes ago

[velvet elbow]

Dang, that's really strange

[raven marsh]

just to confirm it should be just those two running right? tried other combos of things (ie Harmony) but unsubbed them

[velvet elbow]

And you're subscribed to both mods through steam, not by manually installing or anything like that?

[raven marsh]

correct

[velvet elbow]

Right, that's all I have

Let me check

[raven marsh]

i guess the main thing - it does work for you right and isnt just us 🙂

(hapypy to be an idiot here 🙂 just want to understand if i have some odd thing

[velvet elbow]

Yeah, I'm really confused because my friends and I went through this like less than a week ago and everything just magically worked

[raven marsh]

does it launch for you now?

[velvet elbow]

Ooop, no it does not

[raven marsh]

im looking at the logs trying to work out if its soething in that

[velvet elbow]

I'll bet it's a patch

[raven marsh]

ya there was a patch like 48 hours ago

good its not just us 🙂

[velvet elbow]

That'll do it

[prime vigil]

Oh well, at least we know it is not us. thanks for the suggestions

[velvet elbow]

Yeah no problem!

[raven marsh]

looks like its "TypeLoadException: Could not load type Timberborn.SoilMoistureSystem.SoilMoistureMap, Timberborn.SoilMoistureSystem, Version=0.0.0.0, Culture=neutral,

[tropic robin]

again anyone up for a game?

[spare ermine]

I wish...

Also having the same issue

of crashing

[velvet elbow]

Yuh, the update killed it

@floral flame halp

[earnest crystal]

What's the bug, check the error reports folder, find the zip file with the date and time you got the error message, and copy and paste the text from the error report text file

[spare ermine]

Here it is

[split sluice]

Already fixed by another dev but @floral flame need to verify and merge the change + update workshop. https://github.com/thomaswp/BeaverBuddies/pull/94/files

[floral flame]

Thanks, folks. I'll take a look at the PR soon and hopefully have a fix out. But I should warn that if they updated the logic of water simulation it could make desyncs more common (or I suppose it could solve some, who knows ).

[spare ermine]

Thank you for the mod! I really appreciate the effort :)

[floral flame]

Ok, the update should be live and working on the newest Timberborn! Thanks to @somber dragon and @zibo-ye for the PRs that went into it. Big maps should now be working.

[woeful rain]

@floral flame When you say very few mods are expected to work with this one, are you meaning an outright crash or unexpected behavior? Been having an issue where my husband and I will play, but somehow our games drift apart without a desync error occurring. We only realize when one gets a bad tide and the other gets a drought, for example. Wondering if this has anything to do with a mod-specific science unlock breaking game sync

[gaunt thicket]

Mods that require Harmony will almost certainly conflict badly (crash), because BeaverBuddies includes HarmonyX which is not compatible.

Mods that rely on some sort of randomness may cause desyncs.

[woeful rain]

But it never crashes or causes an desync error. Maybe it’s not the mods at all, only using stairs, ladders, and tunnels, and we have both placed all of them and the actioned synced. But something is happening that causes the client game to quietly stop communicating with the host game. Which is a bummer when you’ve gone a whole cycle or more before either of you realize and they just did a whole bunch of work that will not get saved. Or worse because their last actions caused their beaver colony to wipe and I (the host) wasn’t paying attention to their colony

[floral flame]

@woeful rain You can always try. It's not that it's inherently incompatible with all mods. Mods that don't have code should all work. Mods with code that don't use randomness or add new user interactions should also work. But almost all mods do those things, so they'll break it. It's just easier to say that it doesn't work with other mods.

[woeful rain]

Yeah, that’s the tack that I took. “Let’s see if it works”. Have you ever seen this type of desync before? No crash, no desync error, host and client just stop communicating

[earnest crystal]

Coding is hard, if you can find a bug yourself it's really helpful for a small team

[woeful rain]

@earnest crystal If that was in reference to me, I'm going to need you to help me help you. I'm not familiar with the code base, the use cases, or the logging mechanisms in play. Best I can find for logging are the OOTB error reports generated by the game, but I already said: no error is ever produced -- there isn't even a desync modal shown, so I can't even take advantage of the reporting recently built into the mod. And that's why I'm here.

[earnest crystal]

Hmm
What are all the mods you're loading when you play the game?

(Process of elimination)

[woeful rain]

Screenshot is a week old, but the list the same.

[tropic robin]

still in for a game?

[tropic robin]

@velvet elbowhello sir

@woeful rainyou?

[gaunt thicket]

Try disabling Harmony (and then anything that requires it), to see if that makes any difference.

[woeful rain]

@gaunt thicket Is there anything I can do to capture log messages? Sometimes it can take hours to happen, and I’d rather not blind play test for hours at a time per session looking for a needle in a haystack

[gaunt thicket]

All messages should be written to Player.log

https://timberborn.wiki.gg/wiki/Game_Directories has info on where to find it

If you have a log (or crash) then someone on #🚀mod-users or #🤖mod-creators should be able to look at it and find the most relevant entries

[woeful rain]

@gaunt thicket Nice! I didn't know this file existed. Very hidden away in a different directory. I will report back with anything I find

[real sorrel]

Yo, anyone wanna play a game?

[tropic robin]

I can in about 2 hours

[livid hawk]

Played with my group (4 of us) last night for first time since last patch, had a few crashes, each time from the same thing.

Desync occurs, host saves the game so that we can load it up and boot back in from that point. When host loads the game using the Host co-op game button, each client that joins crashes. If we go back to an earlier save before the desync clients are able to load in just fine.

We managed to find a workaround by host loading the desync save in single-player, resaving and then hosting again.

[velvet elbow]

Do you have any player logs from the crash?

It would be helpful to see what exactly was being built that was causing it

I also usually play with four people, so I get the struggle of trying to narrow down what exactly everyone was doing beforehand

[livid hawk]

Unfortunately only have a log from the desync last night when we decided to call our session, unless old logs are saved somewhere (or appended).

[velvet elbow]

I don't believe so, player.log is pretty much just the last game you ran

I'm definitely guilty of just relaunching immediately if I've got something going on

[dense valve]

Hi guys, I just installed the beaverbuddies to try and play it together with my girlfriend but were not able to launch the game and we are not reaching the main menu screen due to crash.

Is there a need to downgrade the version of the game before we can play?

[velvet elbow]

Did you also get mod manager?

[dense valve]

thank you that solves it hehe silly me it was stated in the error. I subscribed to Mod settings and solved it thank you!

[livid hawk]

Had crash again

[real sorrel]

hey, sorry I didn't reply. You available today?

[gaunt thicket]

"InvalidDataException: End of Central Directory record could not be found" Looks like a corrupt save, try an earlier one

[woeful rain]

When you use the in-game log post button, where does it go?

[woeful rain]

Chugging along fine with a new save without Harmony mod enabled until first bad tide, then immediate desync, and then a subsequent immediate desync after hitting play on rehost even after fully restarting the game. I'm trying to make heads or tails of the log traces both in the logs and from the code, and having a hard time pinning down what actually caused the desync. If I understand correctly, the logs it spits out are just the last things that happened in the problem Tick?

[livid hawk]

ime, badwater always desyncs my group. Probably something to do with the contamination levels mildly randomizing on each client and not being synced.

[woeful rain]

That makes sense, but I’ve played several different maps and never had an issue with bad tides specifically. Maybe the latest patch with the water changes introduced more complexity than before?

[livid hawk]

I only got the game with update 7 and have had this issue from when beaver buddies was patched to work with it, so unsure.

I'm also playing in a group of 4, distributed around the whole of the continental US with very different internet speeds amongst us. So more chances for my group to have issues and badtides just multiply that chance. If someone's land start flooding we also tend to have issues depending on how bad/intermittent it is.

[upbeat wing]

Can you give play with other mods?

[earnest crystal]

If the mods don't rely on RNG then yes, otherwise they break BeaverBuddies

[real sorrel]

Anyone available to play a game rn?

[woeful rain]

Interesting development on this. If we leave the game running at 1x through a bad tide transition, it won’t desync, but run the game any faster and it will. Also, like I mentioned, after desyncing, it will keep doing it every time after reloading the game immediately after hitting play, but if we connect through Steam instead of locally, it will almost always work to get past the immediate crash but will still desync if the game runs faster than 1x

[kind condor]

made a new map - have tested it, its tough, but its survivable on hard, very chill on normal https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3583060355

i tested that map with friends for ~24 cycles over the last couple of days, with many bad tides in there and we never desynced on season change

[velvet elbow]

That looks sick, around what cycle will the badwater pool fill up if you just ignore it?

[kind condor]

it won't

theres a drain at the bottom of one and tunnels between them

[velvet elbow]

Oh nice, I didn't notice that

[floral flame]

Nice! I added it to the multiplayer map collection

Is anyone having issues after the last minor update 10/9? I didn't update the mod, but it still seems compatible. A few people on steam are saying "fix bug" but that could refer to anything 😄

[silent salmon]

Though it desincs occasionally, this is a very stable and fun mod to play 😁

[kind condor]

so im pretty sure the current frequent desync issue is around planting crops/trees, and that 1 player can plant stuff, but it doesn't sync through to the others - and sometimes near immediately, and sometimes much later down the track (such as planting trees from a forester that hasn't been completed yet) a beaver will go to plant said crop/tree, and then the game desyncs

my reasoning for this is several times after a rehost (as a client) i'll notice that crops/tres i've planted, sometimes minutes beforehand, aren't there anymore. to me this means that the host didn't recieve the command to plant them from my client, and that would be why they aren't in the save file we load from

[woeful rain]

I've run across similar things, too. I've been trying really hard to understand the logs/messages the mod leaves, and I think some things aren't making it to host given how many "tick too late" messages I keep getting.

[split sluice]

Ty very much for the map. Very nice map.

[kind condor]

@floral flame the unfiltered/fresh/badwater toggle on mechanical fluid pumps isn't shared between clients and causes desyncs

[kind condor]

Ever worried that bad tides are too easily handled and that all your beavers are contamination free? Never fear... I made a new map.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3591356054

[slim oasis]

hello guys, i got the game via steam and mod from mod.io yesterday, same goes for my friend and we want to play together but we don't know how, i was on a non steam version for months, port forwarding never worked, same goes for hamachi, is it as simple as the guide says with steam chat invite? i tried to make new game then save, exit to main menu and load as host, but beaverbuddies never connects

[broken ravine]

I've also noticed the pause/unpause of the Large Warhouse construction site was not syncing up.

A friend and I got a safe going we where playing for a few days now, and the game desyncs almost immediately now. Trying to understand what might be the cause currently 🙂

Looking at the event log, the events are properly generated tho.

[plucky aurora]

Hey everyone, I could use some help with Beaver Buddies.
I'm running Timberborn version v0.7.10.13-a445513-sw and using the following mods via Steam Workshop:

Harmony v2.4.0
TimberAPI v0.7.12.3
Mod Settings v0.7.10.0
Beaver Buddies v1.5.5.0

I believe that the mod order is correct (Harmony → TimberAPI → Mod Settings → Beaver Buddies), but the game crashes right after the mod manager screen.
The error log shows:
HarmonyException: Patching exception in method GameSaver::Save(...)
InvalidOperationException: Incorrect code generation for exception block.

From what I understand, Beaver Buddies is trying to patch a method that changed in this Timberborn version. Can anyone confirm if there's a fix or workaround? Or is there a compatible Timberborn version I can downgrade to?

Thanks in advance – I really want to get this working!

[broken ravine]

If you're playing on stable it might be caused by some of the other mods. Maybe try just Mod Settings and Beaver Buddies?

[livid hawk]

Harmony is incompatible with beaverbuddies, it uses harmonyx (which is built into it iirc?)

Or rather, your load order is wrong, it needs to be mod settings -> beaver buddies -> harmony -> timber api

[harsh dome]

My partner and I have desyncs during badtides. They start a few ticks after the badtide starts, and continue on during the entire badtide (no matter when the reconnect happens). If I leave it running (as a host) until the badtide is over, reconnect works fine. Then with the next badtide, same problem. Can anyone help there?
No other mods installed except ModSettings and BeaverBuddies, both at the most recent version.

[vast urchin]

https://github.com/thomaswp/BeaverBuddies/pull/104

v1 soon

[vast urchin]

are you playing on a custom map? I had some issues on specific maps

[harsh dome]

The spiral mountain is an official one, right? That's the one

[woeful rain]

Admittedly haven't played in a while much less with the buddies mod, but I experienced the same thing and never came to any conclusion on a fix. I will agree that it seemed to be related to the map played in some way. Likely related to how many bad/water sources are on the map and thus how complicated the water calculations are.

[vast urchin]

u1 version of the mod is on github

https://github.com/thomaswp/BeaverBuddies/tree/u1

does anyone want to do a build for everyone 🙂 (im on mac so its PITA)

[floral flame]

I'm happy to build for mod.io - I could also do steam if there's enough folks who'd appreciate a separate beta channel.

[vast urchin]

Id try it on steam workshop ideally although dont really mind where

[floral flame]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3613072673 <-- let me know if this works for you

[vast urchin]

ill try soon, still at work

[vast urchin]

@floral flame science unlocks dont sync

the building appears unlocked for p2 but you cant place it

[broken ravine]

Hmm, this is strange. Can you maybe open an issue and submit the log files according to the bug report template?

This would help a lot when investigating this issue. But I'll look into it regardless once I'm back 🙂

[vast urchin]

It fixes when you reload the save

but any new unlocks dont sync

[kind condor]

how have i only just noticed that only the host for beaver buddies needs to have the map file

[leaden maple]

is there a way we can see the logs of desync?
found player.log but is basically empty, no errors

[vast urchin]

needs patch for latest update :?

could be mod settings

[broken ravine]

Works for me. Maybe try reinstalling the game. I had trouble launching it too after an update once

[dense kernel]

the mod is making my game crash after starting the game

[broken ravine]

If you are playing on the experimental branch, please use this version of the mod: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3613072673

[leaden maple]

but what about constant desync?
tried the 0.7 and 1.0 and both desync (altho 1.0 is more rare)

[silent salmon]

I have had a lot of desync problems too, tried doing some experimenting but I couldn’t find anything to fix the problem. I think it might be problems with other mods being on at the same time

[leaden maple]

we have like zero mods only the multiplayer

[vast urchin]

My desyncs tend to happen around season changes/when the water is doing stuff

Never had any desyncs on smaller maps before, is it the map?

Also desyncs whenever I use Dev tools but probably expected

[leaden maple]

we do nothing, we maybe add few stairs to original maps when creating it but thats it

[vast urchin]

I mean is it a small or big map?

[leaden maple]

256x256

[vast urchin]

yeah try a small map mb

I didn't have any issues on 120x120 on u7

[leaden maple]

we tried 50x50 but all the same lol

and if anything, beaver count would be an issue not really map size, but we have had desyncs with like 40

[broken ravine]

My nightmare would be of these desyncs would be caused by some cpu dependant floating point weirdness

[leaden maple]

we tried 2 different host, we both have amd cpu but thats about it (and btw i made a github issue about it as well)

[long wolf]

Any mp maps posted for experimental?

[violet blaze]

Hello not the mod man here I have one in the works (a challenging one)

[violet blaze]

hey @floral flame a question, do you have any plan with beaverbuddies regarding the full release of timberborn?

[ruby flare]

Yeah i would love use it but it seems like it’s broken rn

Imo top 3 mods

[floral flame]

There's a branch that's been up to date with v1 (you can find it on the workshop), but I haven't tested it in a bit. So yes, my hope it to update it when v1 releases

I'm in an "off" period of development to focus on other things, but I know there are still plenty of desyncs to work on, so when I've got time and energy again I can work on them. And of course community contributions are most welcome

[ruby flare]

is that the beta branch?
because that one is having a problem with mod settings

gives a warning that it needs mod settings and that its outdated or something and if you try and launch it crashes

[hidden shore]

Does anyone know how to Join another person on the Co op buddies mod? We have tried setting our ports to the same and ip etc but there is NO INFO on anything to do with this mod?

[opal lotus]

https://github.com/thomaswp/BeaverBuddies/wiki/Installation-and-Running#port-forwarding-or-steam-networking

[opal lotus]

you'll need to port forward

[signal trout]

Hey, me and my friend are playing and whenever we place a district crossing the game crashes?

[split sluice]

Rapport bug on git with log and more information. See GitHub link for more information.

[rapid magnet]

The port forwarding is no longer mandatory if you play on steam, as steam invite can manager that part

[violet blaze]

mod settings doesnt work for 1.0? making 1.0 beaverbuddies unplayable?

[violet blaze]

mod settings has been updated but it still doesnt work so i think the 1.0 version of beaverbuddies is brok

[ruby flare]

Mod settings?

[violet blaze]

beaverbuddies brok

either that or my files are no goodie

[ruby flare]

Alr

[signal trout]

Getting this when I launch?

[rapid magnet]

probably because experimental branch has been updated today

[chilly vector]

Indeed, there seem to be 1.0 changes that have broken the mod. Anyone working on this? Can I help?

[rapid magnet]

might be related to the new tutorials

[floral flame]

Ok, hopefully just pushed an update to the beta branch to fix it on steam. Let me know if it's working for y'all. I had to remove a patch stopping analytics from working (which was causing desyncs), since they changed the way analytics work. I couldn't find the new analytics code, which means this verion may have a bunch of new desync - let me know if you find that's the case.

Especially if turning off analytics fixes it.

[next cosmos]

Hi, I was playing on Update 7 with a friend with the Beaverbuddies and it was working fine. Now our districts becamse a bit larger and now whenever we place a few crops, we desync every time. Are there settings we can change to make it more stable, or is the only solution to keep the map small?

[chilly vector]

@floral flame Thank you for taking the time, appreciate all that you do. Is there anything we can do to help lighten the burden here?

[next cosmos]

@floral flame with the latest 1.6.1 mod update, I am not able to start any new games with the mod enabled. I have disabled all the other mods and its crashing immediately when I create a map. im on version v1.0.8.0-1c8b9ad-xsw

[ruby flare]

is anyone else having problems in latest 1.0 version?

[fallow raptor]

Yes.
Same as post above #1203786573142032445 message
Maybe this is the problem
Patch notes 2026-01-26 (experimental)
Misc.
-//-
The in-game day is now longer by 0.8 real-life seconds. While this may look cosmetic, it means that 1 in-game hour is now exactly 32 ticks, and 1 in-game day is now exactly 768 ticks, without any fractions.
-//-

[ruby flare]

alr ty

[floral flame]

Hey folks, should be fixed now @next cosmos @ruby flare @fallow raptor

[ruby flare]

YAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAY

tysm

will you be able to make beaverbuddies work with harmony?

[trail crest]

Has anyone encountered a problem when playing multiplayer that when one person spends science and unlocks something it shows as unlocked for player 2, but they can not build it without unlocking it again?

[ruby flare]

No

[next cosmos]

Yeah that double science unlock we had aswell, but it doesn't cost science for the second, so it wasn't an issue

[next cosmos]

Awesomez thanks!!

[trail crest]

That's strange because on our game it costs the 2nd player science even after first player unlocks it >.<

[next cosmos]

ah oof, well I guess you are also generating twice the science, so its fair

[floral flame]

Good to know. I've filed an issue and will try to get to it.

[floral flame]

Thanks for asking! If anyone's a dev, I could always use help tracking down bugs in the issues list (e.g. the science unlock issue just mentioned). Otherwise, the most helpful thing is just to help newcomers get the mod going and troubleshoot, which lots of you already do, so thanks 😄

[floral flame]

To clarify: BB uses HarmonyX, which is a different version of Harmony. You can't use both at the same time, so you just have to disable the Harmony mod if you're using it. Since other code-altering mods aren't currently supported, that shouldn't be an issue. Are you not able to get it to work with the Harmony mod disabled? FWIW, I will look into whether vanilla Harmony works with BB (see this issue https://github.com/thomaswp/BeaverBuddies/issues/101), but last time I tried there were inexplicable crashes without a way to debug why.

Is anyone having issues with the main (non-experimental) branch? Folks are in the steam comments are describing issues that I thought were just related to the experimental branch (and since fixed). Pre update 1 seems stable and unchanged, but let me know if I'm missing something.

[ruby flare]

Ive been using it with my friend for the past few days, we have only had a small amount of desycs and those are not crashing the game it just puts my friend on whatever is needed x speed

[ruby flare]

alr

[fallow raptor]

another patch and BB dont work again? (experimental)

[floral flame]

Yeah, looks like it. Unfortunately, I can't commit to real-time patches for experimental branch, but I'll take a look when I can

[velvet elbow]

Is anybody else having a problem with floodgates causing desyncs?

[cloud elbow]

Hello! My friends and I do a weekly 3-5 player game night, and we were thinking of doing timberborn for our next campaign. Most of the comments I see on BeaverBuddies seem to be talking about just 2 player games, does anyone know if the mod runs stably with 3+?

[velvet elbow]

It's stable with 5+, but with that many people you always have to customize a map a little bit first to make it fun

Even the really good multiplayer maps usually only have four decent starting locations tops

[livid hawk]

Hi, am someone who played as part of a group of 3-5, it's fairly stable at 3+, just beware of bad tides and sluices causing desync.

Note though: you can only have a max of 4 starting districts, which is why my 5 man run died.

[velvet elbow]

If you turn on dev mode you can cheat in a fifth district and some berries and save the map so that when you host it with five people you all have a spot

[random arch]

Not sure if you ever got around this, but for me if you load it in single player and place the district crossing, save and then rehost it will be fine.

[velvet elbow]

This fixes most desyncs for us to be honest

[real cosmos]

Is there a mod.io version of the 1.0 update for beaverbuddies?

[crisp root]

Any ETA on when this could be addressed? Also just making sure it's still down and I'm not skill issued, I suppose haha. I understand it not being a priority when you've got a lot of other things going on 🙂

[floral flame]

I've got 2/3 of it ready - hopefully this weekend. Remember the main branch (not update 1) is still working fine.

But I know you can't downgrade if you've already started a map - I'm working on it!

[crisp root]

You're incredible, thank you so much for the quick reply and putting in your time for this community ❤️

We're playing on the main branch while we wait patiently for you!

[floral flame]

Ok, the Update 1 branch has been updated!

I should say the most recent patch messed with the game's speed logic, which is at the core of how the mod works. I think I patched it in a way that will still work, but I haven't tested extensively yet, so let me know if you're seeing a lot more desyncs or weird behavior.

[floral flame]

Are many of y'all playing with more than 4 people with independent settlements? I just assumed the game would be a bit unstable and laggy at that point. But if you are it's not hard to add in more than 4 slots to the map builder. That said, as you've noticed it's not hard to cheat in more if you need it.

[crisp root]

Over 2 hours into a new savefile, finally starting to get actual population now. Didn't want to comment earlier in case we were misremembering earlygame performance from last night, but I can now confidently say the experimental branch is running Far smoother for us today than the main branch was last night. No desyncs, no weird behavior, just buttery smooth gameplay with 0 stuttering.

[wise cove]

tried to use this mod today on both experimental branch and current release. Both of them crash the moment i try to boot the game with that mod on, i tried reinstalling everything twice, even checked on a different computer.

i really hope i'm not an isolated case, pls halp

[velvet elbow]

Do you also have mod manager?

[wise cove]

bepinex? it was specified on harmony's page that it's not required and should be removed

oh... i'm dumb, harmony was the problem

[velvet elbow]

Lol, it happens

[wise cove]

darn it, was certain it's necessary to launch BB

[ruby flare]

Beaver buddies uses a diff version of it

That’s why it breaks

@floral flame said he was looking into changing it to work with the mod but I’m assuming that’s gona take a while

[floral flame]

Unfortunately, I did look into it and the original Harmony just isn't able to patch some methods b/c of limitations in it's implementation, while HarmonyX can. I might be able to work around that, but I think it's only worth it (and the potential instability) if I'm prioritizing making it work w/ other mods, which would also require adding a way for other mods to make synced events. I've mostly got that figured out, but I'd want to see if other devs have interest in it.

[somber dragon]

I think it would be worthwhile, I was going to have a look at opening a PR for this 😄 but if you have a branch already that's awesome!

[floral flame]

Hey folks, so the exciting surprise reveal of automation is cool! Fortunately it doesn't seem to have broken anything major and I've updated BB (experimental) to support it. That said, it may be a minute before I can support all the automation UI. I'm looking into ways to make it a bit easier to create all the events for the new UI, but barring that, some help from the community wouldn't go amiss 😄

I bring that up less b/c of the work of implementing it and more b/c it's actually a pretty straightforward bit of event creation - a good way to learn to contribute.

[floral flame]

P.S. If anyone is interested, I've found a nice way of streamlining these events on the automation branch (e.g. see here: https://github.com/thomaswp/BeaverBuddies/commit/a5d292be780e433bbdf2f7bf37063c8a59a9cddd), so we don't have to do them all by hand!

[ruby flare]

cool thank you so much

[next cosmos]

Hey @floral flame, no rush, but do you have any idea when you think beaverbuddies for 1.0 could be ready?

[opal lotus]

So you no longer need help with creating the events i take it?

[floral flame]

Just moved the 1.0 beta to the main mod on Steam. It should work other than the automation buildings. Will update Mod.io soon.

[floral flame]

I think it's going to be pretty straightforward. But if I don't find time this weekend, a PR to finish it up would be welcome

[humble juniper]

Hey! Now you updated the 0.7 mod but what should i now prefer to use?

[violet blaze]

@floral flame https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3684775334

[restive pine]

Guessing there's no chance to ever make it compatible with mods using harmony right(Or rather it'd have to be on harmonyx's side to make the bridging)

[opal lotus]

it's mostly up to the modders to support it, which means adding proper networking events etc

[restive pine]

My specific question was due to this using harmonyx while most mods still use harmony

these not being compatible with each other afaik

[opal lotus]

ohh right 🤔

[restive pine]

So there'd have to be a bridge made unless more modders move over to harmonyx

[opal lotus]

i dont think it would affect much api wise to switch over

curious why he uses harmonyx though

[restive pine]

has more stuff it can do compared to harmony

specifically it's able to patch some methods harmony can't

[opal lotus]

yeah makes sense, well the "official" modding tool distributed by the devs is harmony so yeah very unlikely a majority will switch

[velvet elbow]

Is the crater district supposed to be gone in the multiplayer start?

[floral flame]

Right now they're identical. I'll probably discontinue support for the v1 beta, except maybe for testing experimental builds.

So use the main one.

[floral flame]

Nice - I added it!

[floral flame]

For those interested in Harmony support, there's a draft PR with that functionality. I'll have to test it a bunch, but thanks to Robin for creating it!

https://github.com/thomaswp/BeaverBuddies/pull/122

After that my goal would be to try to support other mods adding BB synced events.

[sacred gale]

before 1.0 me and my buddy had no issues joining and playing but now even after making sure weve got the updated mod the person connecting crashes everytime we try to join

weve tried me joining him and him joining me and neither way makes a difference

[floral flame]

There may be a minor update causing it. Can you post an issue? https://github.com/thomaswp/BeaverBuddies/issues

[violet blaze]

n-no?

[winter sable]

hey i'm working on a change that that significantly improves BB performance for MacOS users

is there a chance i can recruit a Windows user to help me test?

checkout my WIP branch, build, & make sure it still works on Windows

[somber dragon]

Happy to do it

[winter sable]

ty, here's my PR https://github.com/thomaswp/BeaverBuddies/pull/122

the PR adds the Harmony mod as a dependency & requires a little bit of env.props adjustment to point to where that's installed

[violet blaze]

totally didnt just mess everything up in the worst possible way trying to fix it

[winter sable]

@somber dragon you're welcome to send me discord friend request to work through anything you run into

[violet blaze]

did it, fixed it hahaha

[astral bluff]

i'm having major issues when me, my partner and our friend try to load in, me and my partner are same network, our friend is obvs a different network this is the error code im getting to do with the steam overlay:

ArgumentException: IPanelController Timberborn.SteamOverlaySystem.SteamOverlayInputBlocker is not on top of the stack!
Timberborn.CoreUI.PanelStack.Pop (Timberborn.CoreUI.IPanelController panelController) (at <2acfdb81a91b4cc18dc1ed697141da2b>:0)
Timberborn.SteamOverlaySystem.SteamOverlayInputBlocker.SteamOverlayActivated (Steamworks.GameOverlayActivated_t callback) (at <05be1b8561504ceeba0c7b6df3dfa6e5>:0)
Steamworks.Callback1[T].OnRunCallback (System.IntPtr pvParam) (at <fb51e49a772643d28f2cc742e704d38b>:0) UnityEngine.Debug:LogException(Exception) Steamworks.CallbackDispatcher:ExceptionHandler(Exception) Steamworks.Callback1:OnRunCallback(IntPtr)
Steamworks.CallbackDispatcher:RunFrame(Boolean)
Steamworks.SteamAPI:RunCallbacks()
Timberborn.SteamStoreSystem.SteamManager:UpdateSingleton()
Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleService:UpdateSingletons()
Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleService:UpdateAll()
Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleUnityAdapter:Update()

can anyone help?

[floral flame]

I'll make an issue for it. Haven't seen that issue before; could be something in the update that'll need fixing.

[jovial moss]

@floral flame you told me to reach out to you on discord, but your dms are closed, did you mean here? xP

[remote terrace]

hello, anyone would like to try out this mod ? I'm getting back into timberborn and playing with someone sounds awsome

[idle perch]

+1

[winter sable]

hey do any devs here have a decent understanding BB's client-server connection initialization sequence? i'm trying to get familiar with it & i'm getting kind of lost in the layers of queues

[floral flame]

It's a bit janky (evolved over many iterations), but essentially it starts by sending the map first thing, then a start state (which is really more for the networking code; it doens't include game state, and could probably be removed at some point), then it sends the first game event, which ServerEventIO generates: an InitializeClientEvent. Then it's just game-generated events. Is that what you were asking about? There are a few unneeded abstractions from early on (it was originally a record-and-replay mod), and b/c of needing to handle both steam and sockets.

[floral flame]

Weird - you should be able to dm me (I don't friend everyone just b/c this is also my private account :D) but I accept the messages. But you can also share here.

[floral flame]

Alright, I've replicated the issue - sorry about that! Hope to work on a fix soon.

I'm getting it specifically when joining through steam - is that also your expecience? Direct connects are working fine

Ah seems to be specifically about bringing up the steam overlay or removing it....

Seems to be some vanilla TB code that's intentially throwing an error. I'll have to look into it more.

[winter sable]

ah the record-and-replay history makes everything make a lot more sense, ty! i do see those loose ends & pass-thru abstractions

another quick question @floral flame , are the Inspector & ClientServerSimulator development tools still used? if they are i'd love to learn how to use them & document them for future devs

if they aren't it'd be great to remove them to simplify the repo

[floral flame]

Inspector is essentially a scripting repo for inspecting the code from outside of itself. Still used, and may be used more in the future: the hope is to walk through the TB code to detect changed for patched methods so I can verify if the code still works if the code its patching changes.
The simulator hasn't been used in a while and could probably be removed, but it actually might be useful for people working on a single computer. The original idea was you can record some activity and then it would play it back, but that shouldn't be needed any longer.

[winter sable]

using a virtual machine is probably a better way to test, i wrote some notes about my setup in this github issue, maybe we can add that to the project documentation

[wintry sparrow]

Is there any chance 1.0 would cause crashing on load in between games the map transfers and they can play solo but if they try connecting it crashes fully

There is a bug report on GitHub https://github.com/thomaswp/BeaverBuddies/issues/123

just curious and wanting to play more with friends

[rancid jasper]

how do i fix

[livid hawk]

Do you have mod settings before beaver buddies?

Do you have another mods besides those 2?

[rancid jasper]

turning off steam overlay fixed it

[astral bluff]

Only when I use steam overlay, we can’t seem to figure out the direct connection stuff!

[winter sable]

hey there! we have a fix for this specific steam overlay bug in progress it'll go live hopefully soon

[astral bluff]

yay!

[astral bluff]

we are now having major desync issues every time we play 30 seconds into the game we desync \

and occasionally our friend gets this message [I don't know how to report things on github so ill post it in here aha]

InvalidDataException: End of Central Directory record could not be found.
System.IO.Compression.ZipArchive.ReadEndOfCentralDirectory () (at <9465b0f262d6495fae15d1c99e2f8561>:0)
System.IO.Compression.ZipArchive.Init (System.IO.Stream stream, System.IO.Compression.ZipArchiveMode mode, System.Boolean leaveOpen) (at <9465b0f262d6495fae15d1c99e2f8561>:0)
System.IO.Compression.ZipArchive..ctor (System.IO.Stream stream, System.IO.Compression.ZipArchiveMode mode, System.Boolean leaveOpen, System.Text.Encoding entryNameEncoding) (at <9465b0f262d6495fae15d1c99e2f8561>:0)
System.IO.Compression.ZipArchive..ctor (System.IO.Stream stream, System.IO.Compression.ZipArchiveMode mode) (at <9465b0f262d6495fae15d1c99e2f8561>:0)
Timberborn.SaveSystem.SaveReader.ReadFromSaveStreamUnsafe[T] (System.IO.Stream saveStream, Timberborn.SaveSystem.ISaveEntryReader`1[T] saveEntryReader) (at <dfe324e5929746cabb60385dcf07a94c>:0)
Timberborn.GameSaveRepositorySystem.GameSaveDeserializer.Load (Timberborn.GameSaveRepositorySystem.SaveReference saveReference) (at <0c2cff97bf5a4d18b4f5271464993d39>:0)
Timberborn.GameSaveRuntimeSystem.GameLoader.Load (Timberborn.GameSaveRepositorySystem.SaveReference saveReference) (at <35c704b85585407da3b6d691a6ecaa2e>:0)
Timberborn.GameScene.GameSceneSerializedWorldSupplier.LoadGame (Timberborn.GameSceneLoading.GameSceneParameters gameSceneParameters) (at <74c76d3d1bfa4cea98fa4a375c16db2c>:0)
Timberborn.GameScene.GameSceneSerializedWorldSupplier.Load () (at <74c76d3d1bfa4cea98fa4a375c16db2c>:0)
Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleService.LoadSingletons () (at <e844e163c8424237a965b90504ceea0e>:0)
Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleService.LoadAll () (at <e844e163c8424237a965b90504ceea0e>:0)
Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleUnityAdapter.Start () (at <e844e163c8424237a965b90504ceea0e>:0)

[winter sable]

does the client ever successfully connect? or does it crash before they even load in? i may have an idea what's going on

either way this sound legit & it would be very helpful if you could open a full-fledged bug report

[wintry sparrow]

this is the issue im having

[winter sable]

hey happy to help, i do need a proper bug report with logs to figure out what system inside timberborn your problem is coming from

[winter sable]

if you have a github account you can use this link

if not you can still see the bug report template at this link which includes instructions for accessing your logs

[crisp root]

Just wanted to drop that you should probably include in the mod description that players should turn this setting on:

This way if someone clicks out to google something or answer a message they are far less likely to desync. Was very helpful to find this, I'm betting people would have less issues if they knew that existed!

[floral flame]

Added a feature request - thanks for the suggestion!

[eager sandal]

Holy heck I didn’t know this existed and now you’ve saved my life!!! Thanks :D

[eager sandal]

Good luck with this mod. I’ve been keeping tabs for a few months now. I intend to play with friends soon, hopefully this will be my key! Best of days to you.

[astral bluff]

I shall do this very soon!

[wintry sparrow]

https://github.com/thomaswp/BeaverBuddies/issues/123

that’s the bug report I have open currently

[severe vault]

Hi there, quick question, is direct connect / Hamachi more stable against desyncs than Steam P2P ?

[uneven mauve]

Hey! First off, thanks for the mod! Played lot of hours in coop and had a great time with it.

My setup: playing BeaverBuddies cross-platform, Windows as host and Mac M1 as client, connecting directly via IP on a local network. Only mods installed are BeaverBuddies and Mod Settings (Mod Settings listed first). On the MacBook I always launch with the macOS workaround (Rosetta on) - without it the game crashes

Since 1.0 I've been running into a couple of issues:

1. Science unlocks don't sync between players, though rehosting the save fixes it
2. Desyncs are happening too often now it's become hard to play

I can share logs, save files, or try to find out which actions are triggering the desyncs - just let me know what would be helpful

Also curious, is there any chance BeaverBuddies could support a mod API that runs natively on macOS? The game runs fine under Rosetta, but native would obviously be a nice improvement.

Either way, keep up the great work! coop in Timberborn is something a lot of people have wanted for a long time and it’s awesome that you’re making it happen. Really appreciate the effort that goes into this!

Also noticed that when a desync happens, the client has to hit ESC and open the reconnect menu before the host starts hosting again - if the host goes first, the game freezes completely on the client side and ESC stops responding, so the only way out is to force quit

[winter sable]

direct connect is slightly more stable but i'm pretty sure it's not a big difference!

[winter sable]

science unlocks is something we're aware of & working on getting to! we'd love the help, if you want to contribute desync logs, please join us on the on the github

[winter sable]

hey thanks for uploading new error logs, i replied in the bug report with our progress on your bug & a maybe-workaround!

[winter sable]

i have seen a lock-out situation similar to what you're talking about, i ran into the bug while playing with 3 players but i wouldn't be surprised if it can happen with only 2; either way i have a bug thread here, it'd be great if you could add a note on when you've seen the error

[subtle thistle]

someone can send me the last version of this mod ? i can't download it on mod.io cause it's a previous version

and i don't have a steam version so i can't use workshop

[severe vault]

Thank you for the answer ! In this case any tips with setting up Hamachi ? The tutorial for the mod on GitHub is really geared toward port forwarding, but my friend and I struggle with it, and setting up Hamachi seems slightly different enough so that we're clueless on how to actually do it

[winter sable]

i'm not familiar with hamachi; my friends & i use tailscale to network devices together & it's been great to us

[velvet elbow]

Literally came here to say that Hamachi is sketchy

We use ZeroTier and it's honestly a breeze to set up

[severe vault]

Oh, I'll check that out
How do you setup / use tailscale or ZeroTier for Beaver Buddies ? Like which port / IP do you put up in the field in-game

[velvet elbow]

I posted a whole thing a while back, let me find it real quick

#1203786573142032445 message

Lol, never posted a discord link before, let me know if that works

[severe vault]

The link works ! Does it work with pre-existing saves though ? We used Steam P2P beforehand

[velvet elbow]

It should!

[severe vault]

Alright
I'll try that with my friend tomorrow
Thank you !

[velvet elbow]

Good luck, I hope it works out!

[uneven mauve]

thanks! I opened an issue, hope it helps https://github.com/thomaswp/BeaverBuddies/issues/143

[winter sable]

great bug report, ty

we'll update you in the issue as we get to it

[meager sail]

i am having the same issue now does anyone know the solution

[severe vault]

Does the Direct Connect multiplayer have to use custom multiplayer maps ?

[severe vault]

Answer is no I just tested 🙂

[spare ermine]

Bro it was 6months ago

[spare ermine]

It was solved a long time ago XD

[rancid jasper]

hey im not sure if i would get hate for this lmao. but my mate and i encounted alot of bugs while playing - 1. science unlocks were not synced 2. it desyned all the time. 3. when it did desync, it would not let us connect wihtout us both having to re launch the game.

so i vibe coded alot and we played today with no issues.

would you guys like a summary of what was changed or? i know alot of people look down on vibe coding lmao

[rancid jasper]

?

[hot smelt]

that's what a pull request is for

[wild imp]

I think you should make the request on Github

[rancid jasper]

yeah i just wanted conformation as some people hate vibecoding

[wild imp]

It's true that desync bugs are problematic. You managed to solve the problems?

We have it regularly with my friend it's hard to play

[rancid jasper]

yeah by making the water simulation run independant and only sync up every two days as opposed to regually, it seems to have fixed it

i can send you my updated mod if you wanna test it, and if you see any buds then send them over, as its not perfect and very experimental

[wild imp]

I don't know anything about code. It's not going to be too difficult to patch on my side?

[rancid jasper]

no yout drag and drop it in ur mods folder

dm's

[wild imp]

Doesn't it cause a problem to synchronize water with so much interval?

[rancid jasper]

no cos both pc will run the water pretty much the same anyway

might be only slightly differnt

my mate and i stress tested it by opening a massive flood gate on 10x speed

i sent a dm

[idle perch]

one of the triggers for a desync is having a beaver try and plant spadderdock in water that has a cliff overhang directly above it like in the hollows map, with said beaver being moved on top of the cliff when it occurs

[severe vault]

I'd love to try too if possible, I have desyncs every 15 minutes with my mate on our first map probably because it got pretty big

Did it only fix the frequent desyncs issue or also the reconnect and science sync issues ?

[rancid jasper]

Yes + now the automations are synced as they wernt before

[tall mulch]

Does automation work on the mod or No?

[minor holly]

Hey @severe vault I was reading your thread about MacOS and BeaverBuddies compatibility and was wondering if you could get it to work without crashes? I'm looking to play something with my partner and she seemed to like this game. Obviously without multiplayer it's not something I'd like to buy. If you need help with tailscale lmk that's up my alley.

[severe vault]

Uuuh i have told nothying about MacOS

I play on windows only X)

[rancid jasper]

I can try and see if the mod is compatible and if not code something up, I won't be able to test it tho

[floral flame]

I'll have automation working probably this weekend. It's 90% there. Some things won't work smoothly, but that's just constraints of multiplayer.

Just published a fix for the steam connection bug.

[severe vault]

What does that fix exactly ?

[wintry sparrow]

Has anyone looked at the science points desync yet i noticed its still bugged in the update from last night

[minor holly]

Thanks let me know and Ill test!

[cloud elbow]

I convinced my friends to download Timberborn, we'll probably be looking to do a ~4-5 person MP game within the next few weeks, how's the overall stability of the mod looking?

[wild imp]

There are a lot of desyncs right now, and bugs with science and automation.

[cloud elbow]

How hard is it to recover from a desync with the mod? Does it require everyone to do a full restart of the game?

[wild imp]

Most of the time, yes but you don't lose progress. Currently, there are very frequent desyncs, which makes the experience unplayable for me and my friend. Sometimes you can play for 20/30 minutes without desync, then it will desync every 5 minutes or even less.

I believe the problems are being resolved, but it may still take some time.

[cloud elbow]

Oh that does sound pretty difficult to play with. I guess it's good that we're not inclined to do a timberborn game for a week at least, and it sounds like the dev is really on top of this

[wild imp]

I hadn't tried it before version 1.0, but the problems seem to be due to the update. So it's going to take a little longer, if I understand correctly.

[rancid jasper]

are you a solo dev? or do you have a team?

[winter sable]

dud8dud is the only maintainer, a few of us contribute patches but everything passes through them first

[severe vault]

I've found that playing through droughts seems mostly fine, while playing in floods seems more unstable
The mod is fine for small scale games (beginning of game is cruising) but when you start getting in the mid game it's more unstable
I'm playing on a map with 700 beavers and the game desyncs at least every 10 minutes, but I imagine that's a lot of beavers

[split sluice]

Post ur report on Git. Please create a ticket on it with all the files needed.

[severe vault]

I found that while using an edited version of the mod, I'm not 100% sure how applicable that is
I'll check

[whole folio]

Just a quick question. Does BeaverBuddies work with Harmony Mods? i cant remember if they do or not.

[somber dragon]

SoonTM: https://github.com/thomaswp/BeaverBuddies/pull/122

[whole folio]

LOL sounds good. ❤️

[wild imp]

Do you have any ideas for fixing all the desync problems?

[floral flame]

The last update fixed a crash when people were joining through steam.

[floral flame]

There are a few folks who've made great contributions, like @winter sable @split sluice and @somber dragon . The limiting factor is that I'm a bit slow to review contributions/PRs (sorry y'all) because this is a side project that I get to between my job and other hobbies to keep it sustainable for me. But more people still helps if you can test and review PRs or offer your own.

[ruby flare]

W

[uneven mauve]

Hey guys, I’m willing to help test the integration branch.
Would it be possible for someone to share the latest build here? I don’t have the required tools to build it myself

[ruby vessel]

burp

[winter sable]

we're actively working on making latest-builds available on github! soon!

[split sluice]

I hadn't had my gaming computer with me for over four months because I was in the process of moving to a new city and changing jobs. I've finally found a place to live, so I'm bringing my computer with me this week—along with... my car 😄

[blazing pumice]

Hey all 👋

I'm currently looking at the PR that addresses Automation, can't wait to get this in! Think I understand the bug with the weather automation but need to verify a few things before feeding back.

I do all of my development on a mac, is there any aversion to making changes to the csproj / setup instructions to make it work here? I'm figuring it out as I go and happy to make a PR for theses changes if people think it'll be worth it, if not I'll work with my botched local setup for now 🙂

[astral bluff]

hi sorry me again, i really dont understand git hub so ill pop my issues here. When 3 people playing, the game gives an error when loading:

once trying it again we all load however the game desyncs us within the first 20 seconds

[winter sable]

hey @blazing pumice i also develop on mac & merged a few relevant fixes very recently

the current main branch now includes both env.props.unix-template & env.props.windows-template

& the integration branch includes changes that remove the bepinex & rosetta dependencies

[eager sandal]

Hi Joe! :D

[blazing pumice]

Ah perfect thanks

[pine kestrel]

Are the desync in science between players normal? Never had this issue in v.7, started playing coop in v1 two days ago and when the other player buys things, the padlock is removed from my game but I still need to spend science to unlock it. We also have the science that desyncs. I am currently sat at 700, while player 2 has 500

We are playing the stable release

[wild imp]

I think they have a big patche in the process of validation to solve a lot of problems, but I don't know when they plan to release it

[pine kestrel]

cool

I thought that maybe it was by design so that the players don't share science

[graceful ivy]

I also had the "i can use partners science" bug. Then it went away. No idea why or when, but suddenly it wasn't a problem anymore. Literally while we were playing, it just suddenly wasn't a problem anymore.

[glad iris]

Can you add this map to your multiplayer map collection on Steam?
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3694145938

[wild imp]

We tried the latest version, and like the other one, there are desyncs every 5-10 minutes. It's unplayable.

[gaunt thicket]

Any chance you could update HarmonyX to at least 2.13.0? (newer would be fine too)

[winter sable]

i recently replaced harmonyx with stock harmony for beaverbuddies

not sure when that work will be released but hopefully soon

[gaunt thicket]

Do you just depend on the Harmony mod for it?

Then you don't even need to include it with Beaver Buddies

[winter sable]

yep exactly we now depend on harmony mod

the change results in instant compatibility with many popular mods

[somber dragon]

I also have some some patches for mods that need a bit of work ready to go once the rework Harmony is released.. though I might need to sell @floral flame on the idea on bundling these with BeaverBuddies itself 😁

This is roughly what I'm playing with currently

Bobingabout Beaver Factions: needs a patch to sync stuff - fully implemented
Mechanical filter pump: needs a patch to sync stuff - fully implemented
Bober's Laws of Motion + Riverborne: needs a patch to sync stuff - I'm working on this currently, though it might be tricky so I might abandon it, or leave it in a half-ready state)
Moddabe Weathers + Skyblight Weather (which is not in this screenshot): needs a patch to sync stuff, and it works with some "design decisions" (ie, I'm hiding global settings and profiles)

I should also disclaim that my policy for ensuring mod compatibility is purely driven by the person I play with (or me) saying "this mod would be cool to play with"! 😅 and as such I know that I'll definitely get GreedyNation to work and am slowly building toward it (with some side quests along the way).. other mods I'm considering at the moment:

• Beaver Faction Building Control
• Beaver Faction District Control
• Beaver Faction Split Needs
• Beaver Faction Split Breeding
• Second Shift

[gaunt thicket]

Moddable Timberborn has optional dll loading. So you can include that required code with Beaver Buddies, but it'll only get loaded if the other mod is present

[blazing pumice]

In my opinion this should be the next thing and then more stability on desyncs now automation is in

[tidal cove]

@lyric socket is doing some updates to Waterbeaver's code that will hopefully make them more beaver Nation compatible. All 5 factions may be possible soon

[blazing pumice]

Does anyone else notice a desync when water floods massively? I'm gonna try and dig into it but I'm not sure if it's just a quirk with the game I'm playing with a friend

[somber dragon]

Do you have valves placed?

Their settings do not sync currently

[blazing pumice]

Not at the moment, it's literally when water spews everywhere

Good to know about valves, let me go see if I can get that fixed. I'd like the integration branch to be merged first though

[blazing pumice]

Ok there's a descync issue with automation on floodgates, digging into this too

[blazing pumice]

PR for fixing valves (will need rebasing once the integration branch is in): https://github.com/thomaswp/BeaverBuddies/pull/166

Ok, I've found the bug with floodgates and automation too

1.0 added A LOT

I've just added floodgate fixes to this branch too, I can split it if people would like but these are two issues I just enounctered whilst playing 🙂

I'm an idiot, fixing the names of variables

EntityUIEvent is getting to be a pretty big file, we should consider refactoring that down soon

Ok so I've tried playing it out with a friend with the fixes and it looks like we can't invite each other via steam from the integration branch at the moment either... Let's see what's gone on here

Derp, didn't do the steam build

Ok, the above PR has made my online save work again with my friend!

[somber dragon]

@blazing pumice there was already a PR for the valves

[blazing pumice]

Ah, damn I should have checked

[somber dragon]

(The PR opened just before yours in fact 😁)

I can close mine, it’s fine

[blazing pumice]

Either way doesn't matter, my changes are on top of a rebased integration branch that will need to go in, so I will need to rebase again one way or the other

[blazing pumice]

Did we arrive at the same solution? I'm happy to take mine out and use yours and mine just be for the floodgates

[somber dragon]

Alright, let’s go that route then

[blazing pumice]

Ok, I'll amend my commit shortly - I just really need the integration branch merging in because of the rebase I did to help smooth that over 😅

[floral flame]

It's a good question. I think we wouldn't want to add a dependency to the mod that requires other non-essential mods. The idea way would be to allow mod devs to support it on their own (or have it be a third mod that bridges them), but I wouldn't want to take on the maintenance of supporting a bunch of mods either. Maybe the contributors should brainstorm ideas.

P.S. I'm away from development this week / weekend, so sorry for slower responses. Thanks for the issues and PRs!

[blazing pumice]

I think I've found the cause of desyncs when there's a massive flow of water change for whatever reason. Need to do some more digging, I think the fix is going to impact performance if I'm right

[blazing pumice]

Ok I'm 90% sure this is right. I'll put up a draft PR tomorrow, I hope there's a better fix for it though

[glad iris]

?🙏🏻

[uneven pasture]

@ivory geyser

we just tried to play this mod and couldnt get it to work

[uneven pasture]

aftre fiddling we got to work but desyncing frequently

[uncut flume]

hello, is it possible for each player to play a different faction? maybe with the use of some other mod?

[blazing pumice]

No - that would be one hell of a project I think

[blazing pumice]

If you let me know what the players are doing when it desyncs I can investigate - automation is a big one at the moment (though plenty of fixes already out and more scheduled), and water flow / fertility of tiless seems to affect things because of how the threading works

[uneven pasture]

we had just started

@blazing pumice

we were still putting down the first couple of buildings and it just desynced every few minutes

[blazing pumice]

No buildings placed or nothing?

Same OS/any other mods installed?

[uneven pasture]

not sure on the OS of other player

[blazing pumice]

It shouldn't make a difference but would be good to get a better understanding, if I can reproduce it I will diagnose it (I'm not a maintainer just someone who wants this to work and knows how to develop software)

[uneven pasture]

we had difficulty getting it to connect us at first..then set it up cuz they had a better understanding but i hosted...would that cause issues, I didnt do any of that port stuff, they sorta guided me

[blazing pumice]

Are you playing through steam?

[uneven pasture]

i think Id only gotten lumberjacks a harvester water pump and water tank down and it desynced the first time

yes

[blazing pumice]

And no other mods installed for either of you?

[uneven pasture]

nope just the beaver buddies

[blazing pumice]

what map?

and is it folktails or iron teeth? Will try and reproduce it now

[uneven pasture]

this map
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3637487662&searchtext=beaver+bud

i chose folktails not sure what they chose

if they can choose

[blazing pumice]

They can't. Can you try on one of the default maps and see if you have the same? I don't really want to understand the intricacies of a custom map to see what could be causing it right now

[uneven pasture]

ill see if I can get em on after easter dinner

[blazing pumice]

Let me know if you have the same problem, if you do I'll try and figure out what could be going wrong.

Make sure you both have the same mod versions etc too

@uneven pasture what timezone are you in?

[uneven pasture]

east coast usa - eastern daylight time

yeah we coordinated the game versions etc...

@ivory geyser is was who i was playing with

we couldnt get experimental to work but did get reg version to work eventually

is there a map you recommend?

[blazing pumice]

Ah ok. I'm in Europe so probably can't try to help out in real time

[uneven pasture]

im up all times

i dont sleep

not sure where cebie is

[blazing pumice]

I've been playing Waterfall with a friend quite successfully, but I've patched the mod quite a bit since. I have a couple of open PRs open on GitHub for the mod but I can distribute a build if 1) it's not against rules and 2) you trust a stranger to send you them

[uneven pasture]

holiday today tho so not expecting to hear too much

[blazing pumice]

Is there anywhere I can bounce ideas off of other devs other than github for potential fixes?

[somber dragon]

We (sometimes) use this thread for that purpose

[blazing pumice]

Cool - I ask because I think there's some issues with the DeterminismService but I'm literally brute forcing fixes with a friend at the moment to fix desyncs 😅

[somber dragon]

What issues did you find? 😱

[blazing pumice]

Unfortunately the fixes I'm going through are messing with threads in the game and it's... not great.

It's around flooding/water flowing and tiles changing states non-deterministically. My thinking is floating point math causing a desync

[somber dragon]

Do you have a save where this can be reproduced reliably? I’m asking because I tend to play maps with a lot of water sources, and haven’t noticed anything so fundamental out of place - though of course that just means we might not do the specific action that’s the “root of the problem”

[blazing pumice]

Yes, BUT, it's a patched version of the mod already (the majority of the fixes are on github already)

[somber dragon]

Of course, that makes sense. I have a couple more questions:

• are you early/mid/late-game?
• are you using automations?
• do you have specific “reproduction instructions” to go along with your save?

[blazing pumice]

I've just built a stable version with a lot of water happening, it's just not massively performant.

Mid/late game
Yes (and I've patched them in this build too, PRs on GitHub)
Yes - flood the map entirely

[somber dragon]

Interesting! You’re playing main branch, right?

[blazing pumice]

Branched off of integration now

[somber dragon]

No, I meant the game itself (ie not experimental)

[blazing pumice]

Oh - yes of course!

My fixes in this PR made the main game stable until I accidcentally flooded my colony and then it desyncs constantly and that's what I'm trying to solve

[somber dragon]

Interesting, if you send your save over I can check if I can reproduce and come to the same conclusion tomorrow

[blazing pumice]

Sure, I'll send you the save over DM and I'll push my current changes trying to figure things out to a branch on github

[blazing pumice]

@somber dragon your fixes seem to be working well, thank you

I have just come across a beaver child naming desync though! Should be a quick one to fix. It would be really nice to get the integration branched merged into main so I can base things off of that 😅

[somber dragon]

I fixed all name syncing issues already, just not in dev/master yet

But otherwise I’m glad that things are working!

[blazing pumice]

Is it the same as this? https://github.com/thomaswp/BeaverBuddies/pull/169/changes/bb1c2586b03be931d7dba56875df9b7d2e5bc792

[somber dragon]

No - but this isn't needed

It was this: https://github.com/thomaswp/BeaverBuddies/pull/147

[blazing pumice]

Though I'm beginning to think my local build is in a git mess of random commits

[somber dragon]

How are you seeing the desync?

I'm asking because:

• I'm almost certain that there is not mismatch with naming - the people play with would know
• Beaver names don't actually cause a desync.. Ie even if this weren't synced, there would be no gameplay effect/the desync detector would not register this as an issue that matters

[blazing pumice]

You're right, I think this was a false positive, but a bit weird. I'm adding more debugging in now, I've managed to get it to desync on the first tick on reload so give me a few mins ...

I have different seeds on the client and server currently. Desynced on the first tick. Absolutely no idea why this has happened

But it does appear to be moisture related

Let me go through the logs and try and put together a theory

Seems to be due to a rehosting issue and skipping the moisture hash calculation on the server side

[uneven pasture]

I think I need another guinea pig to attempt this with. seems my other one doesnt wanna try again...any takers?

[cloud elbow]

What's the scoop on BeaverBuddies rn? Is there a specific patch of Timberborn that my friends and I would all need to roll back to or anything like that?

[cloud elbow]

Just finished playing with friends, it was kind of rough to get started since I think my multiplayer map saves somehow got fucked up, but we only had one desync over the course of ~90 minutes

[kind condor]

so a friend and i experienced a weird desync issue due to water physics that is new

it was happening here

i had a damn where that floodgate is being built

and on my screen the water seep was getting up to the limit and turning off then the water was spreading out and the seep would enable again

on theri screen the water was just much flatter - and the seep always active

the dam that i deleted was thus pulsing water overflow on my screen, and on their screen it was constant

i dont think this is an issue with the mod, its that the water physics is calculating slightly different for the 2 of us

either way with us taking no actions - it would desync after 10 seconds of unpausing every time until i deleted that dam so that my seep would stay constantly active

so i guess while there isn't much the mod can do about this - its worth knowing for people that water seeps and how you handle them can cause issues if you're using dams with them

it wasn't till i build the levees surrounding the seep to add flood tgates to block bad water from bad tides that the flow of the seep went really wacky

tl;dr - in regards to that video - the way that the water was going up and down, and thus changing the strength of the source on the fly was calculating differently on host and client and causing out of syncs quickly - changing the levee/flood gate set up so that the water level was lower resolved this

maybe the mod could do something to the update rate of water source strength of seeps in multiplayer to alleviate this?

[floral flame]

I've wondered if it might be helpful to have a devs discord server just so we can keep things a bit more organized and focus this thread on helping new players... (though I think we probably pick up some new contributors by keeping the conversation public, so it's a tradeoff). I agree for now here is the best place.

[floral flame]

I've worried about this a lot. I could never track down a thread causing the issue. There is a flag to turn off multithreading in DeterminismService (NO_PARALLEL) so if that fixes a reproducible desync then you've found the issue. For floating point, gosh, I'd hate to have to try to fix that. Doable, but as you say, performance issues.

[floral flame]

The mod should be working with the latest main build (Update 1) and many folks are working on improvements (and I'm trying to keep up :D). Can you say more about save corruption? BB shouldn't affect your save very much at all. What happened?

@somber dragon and @winter sable , @blazing pumice proposed a rebase to clean up some of my double-commit mistakes in integration (see https://github.com/thomaswp/BeaverBuddies/pull/150#issuecomment-4163945853). I'm happy to clean it up, but I wanted to confirm whether anyone is working on a PR right now based on the actual integration branch, where this would mess you up. Of course we could always rebase that PR, but the commit history is already a bit of a mess, so it's not my highest priority.

Ok, I confirmed we have PRs based on my uglier history and on Joe's cleaner one (same code, different commits). So someone will have to change. Probably the easiest thing will be just to squash the PRs when they come so it ignores the different histories...

[winter sable]

i'd join a dev discord, good idea!

[winter sable]

squashing commits is totally fine by me

i'm comfortable with rebase so whatever is fine by me

sorry i haven't been as active; i ended up asking the dev team if they'd gift me a non-steam copy of the game to use to set up automated testing & they pretty flatly declined to

it's not a huge deal, they obviously don't have to do anything, but it's demotivating: putting effort into making their game better for their players is less fun when that good faith isn't returned

[floral flame]

Sorry about that, I feel you. Yeah I just ended up buying a second copy of the game to make this all easier. I figure if it saves me an hour or two then it's paid me back already.

[winter sable]

yeah i might end up up doing the same eventually

[floral flame]

@blazing pumice after looking at it, I think it'll probably be a bit more pain than it's worth to rebase. Are you ok if we just keep with the existing commit history (warts and all)? That way we don't have two separate histories running around.

(Since i think you're the only one who's been working off your new history, but multiple people (may) have been using the existing one.

If you don't feel like reworking your existing PRs, I can just squash your PRs when integrating. Thanks for all your work, btw! I really appreciate it.

[cloud elbow]

I believe it might've been an issue with the Meander MP map pack, I had to pull the map manually, load and save it in the map editor, then manually move it into the saves folder. We all got this error message trying to load into the game:

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
Timberborn.GameFactionSystem.FactionService.Load () (at <603c5460e9e047abaaafc61bf5c66d15>:0)
Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleService.LoadSingletons () (at <e844e163c8424237a965b90504ceea0e>:0)
Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleService.LoadAll () (at <e844e163c8424237a965b90504ceea0e>:0)
Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleUnityAdapter.Start () (at <e844e163c8424237a965b90504ceea0e>:0)

[blazing pumice]

Yeah all good, I can rebase my other PRs

Once the integration branch is in I will update all of my PRs to be based off of that

I think the valve/floodgate fixes are worth releasing soonish too

[serene ravine]

Anyone know why after playing a map with my mate for a fair few hours, when I rehost now i just constantly get desync and need to re host.
No error seen on the server side. Until after the server shutsdown.

[velvet elbow]

I haven't touched the mod in a hot second but we ran into something very similar and we fixed it by going back to an auto save like five minutes back and letting the host build whatever the problematic structure was

The issue was another player placing a sluice gate and it was causing the game to crash basically on startup each time

But when the host placed it we were able to continue just fine

[serene ravine]

Ahh, that might be it. I know the other player has just set up sluices/throttling valves

[velvet elbow]

Lol, yup, sounds about right

Hopefully that fixes it!

[serene ravine]

Much appreciated 🙂

[velvet elbow]

🤘🎃🤘

[kind condor]

throttling valves/fill valves dont always seem to sync their settings across clients (its a known issue they're gonna fix) - the easiest way is to pause the game, and have all players set their values to whatever you wanna change them to, and then unpause

the other issue i've encountered a lot recently is that water seeps are just absolutely screwed in this mod - the easiest way to deal with them is to just to have the host enable dev mode and delete them and replace them with regular water sources (or edit the map before game creation - remember only the host needs the map, everyone else loads the map from the save file when joining the game)

the way in which they change strength based on current water levels means that all clients have to calculate the changes at the exact same time and in the same way or different amounts of water get created, which cause different tiles to fertilize/contaminate differently causing all sorts of problems - tl;dr, avoid water seeps as much as you can

[blazing pumice]

My next test map is with water seeps in - I will get this fixed!

[blazing pumice]

This has been my feeling too but I've not been able to prove through logs/data, but I will continue to get it to make sense if I can

Once we merge PR 150 it opens up a lot more fixes I think. I don't know what the process is for releases as I'm a new contributor, but we have fixes for some things and we will have them for more soon...

[floral flame]

Ok, I made an issue here: https://github.com/thomaswp/BeaverBuddies/issues/172?reload=1 Feel free to add details.

[floral flame]

Working on it now!

[floral flame]

Ok, v1.7.0 is live with many changes discussed before. Please let me know if it's working ok for y'all, and don't forget to add the Harmony dependency!

[grave gale]

Hi. Tested for like two hours. Works amazing. However, hiccups with a game became much more often. It's just stuck for a second or two and then continuous like nothing happened. Maybe it's an internet issue, I'll keep an eye on it. But anyway, amazing work.

[grave gale]

Yeah, that was just internet hiccups. So don't worry about it.

[steady brook]

Hey, THANKS. We've been playing for over an hour now. No problems at all. Thanks again for all your hard work!!!

[floral flame]

@somber dragon @winter sable @blazing pumice and anyone else here who develops mods, would you take a look at this idea on how to best support other mods in BeaverBuddies? I want to get on the same page and then solicit feedback from other devs in #🤖mod-creators https://github.com/thomaswp/BeaverBuddies/issues/177

@somber dragon I know you did some work on existing mods already. Please share your experience!

[somber dragon]

@floral flame sorry, I was fairly busy this week. I'll write up my experiences and opinions about mod compatibility tomorrow/early next week

In other news, I put together a ping system for the mod 😄

[graceful ivy]

Started playing the new buddies version last night. 320 beavers, huge map, 2 players, zero desyncs after 2 hours. Great job @floral flame !

[blazing pumice]

nice

[uneven pasture]

i really wanna try this mod but am not having luck finding a buddy to try it with...anyone wanna play with me on it sometime?

[floral flame]

A lot of the new improvements are thanks to new (and ongoing) contributors!

[uneven mauve]

Hi! I’m using the latest mod version and still getting frequent desyncs. I've played new maps both via local network and Steam invites and got same results

Desyncs seem to happen most often around water events, most frequently after a drought ends or during bad water, possibly because of floods and buildings getting watered.

Also ran into a crash (not a desync) when placing a district crossing. Placing it in solo game and then rehosting helped tho.

On a small colony (less 100 beavers) it's playable but noticeable. My older map with ~400 beavers is pretty much unplayable due to how frequently desyncs occur 🥲

[tidal cove]

Make sure it's only the host adjusting valves and flood gates

[cloud elbow]

Just wanted to thank the dev team, my friends and I played for like 3 hours straight last night with zero desyncs. We had some trouble getting the server up, but once we rehosted a few times it was perfectly smooth.

[uneven pasture]

I have located a victim to try this with...lets go ....any map recommendations?

[deep orbit]

Wonderful, I am a victim. Great. Anyway, recommendations from people who played with most updated version of the mod would be great

[uneven pasture]

guniea pig a better term?

[tidal cove]

I think there's a map collection of multiplayer specific maps around somewhere

[uneven pasture]

hello!

trying to play these guys now

so we had the game speed randomly changing

[manic halo]

The game speed will change for any clients connected to the host, this is a mechanic used to keep up with the host. So if the host is slightly ahead, the game speed for the client will speedup so it can catchup.

[digital salmon]

Just to add another data point for others reading this, my friend and I were getting frequent desyncs (sometimes after 20 minutes, sometimes after 2) when playing yesterday on a save we've had for a few weeks. ~200 beavers, so not a massive population.
Started a new save, and played for about 90 minutes with no desyncs. still not had a badtide on that save though, which has always seemed to be a trigger.

[uneven pasture]

seems I was also changing it constantly....way i play
Im a pauser, think about what im doing, place a bunch of stuff down and then run it at max speed, adjusting build priorities as I go. but I may pause after each building is built and delete a path, anything I place, do is during game paused. game functions better if paused while adding deleting stuff. I try and place stuff when games running and run risk of placing it just a block off where i want it

[manic halo]

Found a desync in BeaverBuddies to do with Badwater Discharge. The Badwater Discharge building has three modes, Closed, Open, and Automated. The Closed and Open options sync between players, but the Automated option does not sync. Since the automated option doesn't sync this eventually causes a desyn due to miss-match in water expectations.

This is reproducible in any map by placing a badwater discharge building. I suspect the issue is related to this building dealing with automation slightly different to every other building.

[verbal ingot]

Don't know if it's fixed already but we had an issue with power clutches on Sunday where switching it would not synchronize from the client and only the host doing it would make it stick. Like it doesn't even register for the host.

Also I'm not sure if it's this mod (or mods it depends on), the game or Proton, but playing gradually filled most of the 24GB of RAM as well as basically all of the 12GB swap. Is it possible that there's a memory leak somewhere?

[blazing pumice]

The two desyncs here I think will be quick fixes, looking into it now

[blazing pumice]

https://github.com/thomaswp/BeaverBuddies/pull/184 Fixed here

[blazing pumice]

And this should fix this issue: https://github.com/thomaswp/BeaverBuddies/pull/185

Interesting how the clutch works differently than other buildings

[velvet elbow]

It's so strange, we're consistently crashing in under 100 ticks, without anyone placing anything or opening any menus

I'm watching the player log live with LogExpert because historically I've been able to see the problem block and have the host place it themselves to overstep a desync, but this time I just can't seem to find any evidence as to what is causing the crash

[wet summit]

from what i have been able to test, badwater and alot of water are the main problems

[manic halo]

Badwater is typically worse for desyncs then water itself due to how it effects the terrain and can cause side effects. If the badwater isn't synced properly you can have crops dying on one client but fine on the other client which will eventually lead to desync due to crop growth.

[wet summit]

bad water is a desink after another is a pain

[uneven pasture]

I see maps for 4 players...anyone ever try more than 2?

[wet summit]

i am always playing with 3

[uneven pasture]

nice

hows it play?

[wet summit]

ok until theres a bad tide

[uneven pasture]

i still cant find anyone else to play with me on it

[wet summit]

for our next map we are planing to desable badtides

and just editing a map to have more bad water spawns

[wet summit]

well does anyone know what mods work ok with multiplayer

[uneven pasture]

thats one thing im curious to try , id love to try zxuijis greedy builders with bobs split faction/needs mods with someone and each plays a faction

[wet summit]

I want Configurable Faction (Faction Mixer)

or something the sort

[uneven pasture]

the greedy mods are mixed factions

[wet summit]

but the real mod i wanted is https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3614598709&searchtext=

[uneven pasture]

greedy builders is ft and it

i love that mod and use it every game..til bots

https://prnt.sc/L9FHAEVguZO2

ive played each one of those mixed factions so far and theyve run with a lot of mods on em

[wet summit]

what is the mix of the 2 vanila ones

[uneven pasture]

greedy builders

[wet summit]

thx

doesn 2 shift work well on multiplayer or nah?@uneven pasture

[uneven pasture]

i dont know

[wet summit]

sad

[uneven pasture]

i cant pay someone to play this mod with me to find out

reddit posts, multiple requests on here on multiple channels...im getting a comlpex...do i smell?

someone make me an AI friend mod

[blazing pumice]

I did start looking into making this more stable a while ago, and it's... complicated

[blazing pumice]

if you're in a European friendly timezone (or can play in one) we can schedule some time to test things together one evening and work through some issues

[uneven pasture]

im in usa but i have insomnia and im self employed...time is irrelevant to me

ill DM ya

[wet summit]

i would love to get some nice and stable badwater

oh and question to someone that can answer, is a headless server ever gonna be a thing?

[blazing pumice]

Almost definitely not

[wet summit]

DAS SAD

[blazing pumice]

It would essentially require an extra copy of the game on a different steam account or whatever running

[wet summit]

never tested the DSP headless but

https://github.com/NebulaModTeam/nebula/wiki/Setup-Headless-Server

[blazing pumice]

The first step says you'll need an additional copy basically. Theoretically it could be done but I don't really know why you'd do it

[wet summit]

well

i already have a homelab thats why

make so it is possible to be on without my pc

[blazing pumice]

Once the mod is more stable with desyncs, maybe it's something I can look into, though I kinda want to build a lobby screen once we're more stable

[wet summit]

fair

[blazing pumice]

But it isn't my mod either, so who knows what will happen

[somber dragon]

I’m reasonably sure that badtide itself causes no desync. So it must be a building or something else. Do you have a save you could share?

[wet summit]

i can

give me a bit because i am actually playing atm

we been playing on speed 2 and not 3

and its been stable for a while

but lets see badtide in 2 days

[somber dragon]

No rush - please just save “before a badtide comes”

[wet summit]

but now we have bad water tunel

[somber dragon]

Yeah, if you can give me a save that is “just before badtide hits”, that would be appreciated

[wet summit]

no worries i can

i will give you this version and a older one with a previous badtide

[somber dragon]

Sounds good

[wet summit]

so just a bit like 1/2 ingame hours?

well i have the saves

but speed 2 and water diverted 0 crashing

[somber dragon]

Even 3 days before badtide is fine

Just send them over and I’ll take a look

[wet summit]

i have 5 hrs and 2 and 1 hr

but yah recent one 0 crashing

[somber dragon]

Thats perfect

And I’m glad you’re not crashing

Do you have automation in place?

[wet summit]

yes

and it crashed

after 1 day xD

[somber dragon]

To be clear: is it a crash or desync?

[wet summit]

desync

my bad

[somber dragon]

All good

Ok, send the saves and I’ll see if I can see what’s up tomorrow

[wet summit]

okii

[pastel shard]

any updates on desyncs? my buddy and me are getting desyncs every minute after some while in every save

[wet summit]

from what i can figure out

water and its changes are the bigest cause

[blazing pumice]

I think they are, and it will depend on performance on the computer and the network that will lead to them. Bad tides trigger a lot of changes and if they don't line up between the host and clients it will desync

That said, there are buildings that are not baked into the mod and will cause desyncs (the latest update addresses these)

[wet summit]

oh we have quite diferent specs

and one of the players is 1 meter from me the other is 350/400km from me

[somber dragon]

That’s not/shouldn’t be an issue

Also, I don’t mean to sound dismissive but if the desyncs were just due to (bad)water, everyone would be experiencing them 😁

Which is why it almost certainly will be something more niche

[manic halo]

I have no doubts haha, Badwater has so many side effects and I expect it's pretty difficult to keep the water levels in sync with the human factor involved.

Had a desync once because a beaver got sick on my end but not my friends end because the badwater wasn't synced up. We think it was caused by some terraforming we were doing around some badwater sources but could never reproduce lol. As long as we keep the flow rate stable we can go multiple sessions without any desyncs so it's not too bad!

[manic halo]

Do you got anymore info on what you might've been doing each time it desynced? There can be a lot of causes for desyncs so if you're running in to them try to provide as much information as you can so people can try help :D

[kind condor]

i swear that fresh and bad water seeps are still the main problem causer for desyncs

[kind condor]

go into dev mode and delete the seeps and replace with normal water/bad water sources

[blazing pumice]

https://github.com/thomaswp/BeaverBuddies/pull/188

I've added extra debug logging, gonna try and force a desync with bad tide stuff this evening, one way to find out

[uneven pasture]

anyone tel me whats wrong with this?

[uneven pasture]

help
https://prnt.sc/40jmJ445MHmv

[blazing pumice]

There's going to be something in that map that isn't supported I think

[uneven pasture]

what i thought might be the issue

[manic halo]

Non priority issue:
Tubeway Station Customization doesn't sync
If you change the colour of a tubeway station using the customization button, the other users can't see your changes.

This is a non-game impacting issue so not a major.

Another non priority issue (this one might be a Timerborn thing rather then a beaverbuddies thing):
Floating dirt blocks, can't reproduce super often but happens on occasion.
If the client places a dirt block on the end of an overhang with nothing underneath, then deletes the overhang using the Demolish Buildings tool, the dirt block stays in the air even with nothing underneath it. Doesn't always happen, so might be related to lag perhaps?

This is synced on both Server and Client so doesn't cause any game breaking issues, just a bit strange seeing floating dirt blocks.

[manic halo]

Last issue for the day, since I'm on a roll haha.
Since the BeaverBuddies v1.7.1 update, with "Always Use Detailed Logging" enabled, the first unpause of the session causes the game to freeze for both server and client for ~10-20s.
Every unpause after that goes fine, it's just the first one of the session. This has caused a desync a couple times when one client has unpaused, and within that 10-20s period another client also tried to unpause.

Simple fix is just patience, but thought worth mentioning.

[opaque wren]

Has the sync issues been mostly resolved since last year? I think that's the last time I've played with BeaverBuddies.
I think I stopped played for a bit when Bad Water became a thing. My daughter got scared. 🙂

[grave gale]

Yeah. It's now more than playable. Just when badtide starts slow down a game and it's not gonna be any problems.

[opaque wren]

That was an amazing experience.

Just finished playing 4 hours with my kiddo.

Thank you soooo much MOD team. I've been waiting years for this to stabilize! I'm sooo incredibly grateful.

[blazing pumice]

It's definitely better now, but if you do some across any desyncs share them and we can try and figure it out / fix them

[sterile cypress]

I might start a new save with a friend. Every time we've picked up older saves they desync within a couple minutes for no obvious reason.

[kind condor]

open the saves up in single player, go into dev mode - replace seeps with regular water/bad water sources, save, rehost multi - gg

[midnight depot]

Hello! I'm having problems playing with a friend. When we join the game, as soon as we build a path or do any action, we get a connection error. Is anyone else having this issue?

[manic halo]

Does it happen regardless of who is host?

[restive crystal]

got gifted the game recently and have been addicted. got my husband into it too, and bought a second copy just so we could play this mod together. if i want to try a multiplayer map, do we both need to have it or just the host?

[violet blaze]

I think just the host however it has to be a beaverbuddies compatible map

If you go to the modmaker's steam workshop page he has a collection that includes quite a few maps

[next finch]

Has anyone here tried the Casthorde multiplayer mod? It seems to be more feature rich, but I would rather stick with beaver buddies if it's more stable.

[restive crystal]

I'm struggling to communicate with my husband during game, especially to navigate menus. Is there any way to ping a location or something? I don't even see a compass rose so idk how to give direction either

[midnight depot]

My friends and I use the door of our houses in District Center as a reference point. For example, when we want to explain locations, we first orient ourselves using District Center with the door facing “towards us”, so we know we are looking at the world from the same perspective and can give clearer directions.

I also heard that in the latest co-op patch they added some kind of signal/ping system, but I haven't been able to test it yet because we get a connection error almost immediately after joining the game.

I hope I explained it well. Most of this text was written with AI because I'm a Spanish speaker and my English is only around B2 level 😅

[midnight depot]

We still haven't been able to test it with my friend hosting, only with me as the host. We'll be able to try it tonight.

[cinder thicket]

does anybody know how to make a server without port forwarding i dont have a password to my router

[somber dragon]

There is now a ping system in the game 🙂 (well, the mod)

[uneven pasture]

yes yesterday

it was so simple to connect

no desyncs but we played the ironteeth and its still in early stages so only ft is tested and been focused on

we were able to place our own districts where we wanted and played just liek normal game but with both of us at different start areas

since was IT tho the other player started with no beavers and had to add some

and eventually I had a bug where ground became unusable after I removed what was planted there...modder said reloading map/game save would solve that

and to play ft for now till they get time to iron out the irons

is supposed to work with all normal mods just not mod factions yet

[toxic sentinel]

wait does it fix the issue where one person sees buildings the other doesnt?

if so that would be absolutely amazing

[uneven pasture]

They placed building for me and me for them

stuff I unlocked, I placed on their side for them and vice versa

sorta cheated science a lil that way

just cant connect your paths

map we used had the storage caches around

id build a path to it and use it than let delete it and they made a path to it and used it

only that planting glitch caused them to see what Id originally planted and not what I had changed it to...i planted birch/pine/oak together, then when birch was cut down redid with oak...thats what it didnt like

[uneven pasture]

so the answer is yes to this

[toxic sentinel]

oh so you play as 2 different cities/villages/colonies?

[uneven pasture]

heres its claims
https://prnt.sc/QApULVJqDAuf

[uneven pasture]

?

probably have to look at the rules i guess

id imagine not

[somber dragon]

I'd advise you don't talk about pirated copies of the game in the game's *official * discord channel 😅

[uneven pasture]

seeems like good advice

so..ignore it...JK!

tho my mom would say I do

im looking for a beaver buddy/casthorde partner today?!....

[opaque wren]

I do run into desyncs. But, you've made the mod so recovery is sooo fast.
How important is it to share desyncs to the community? I'm want to make sure I can give back instead of just take.

[opaque wren]

my desyncs stopped when i switched off Wifi... and moved to full ethernet.

🙂

[blazing pumice]

If you share them they can be investigated and fixed, if you don't it will only be resolved by someone who can fix it having the same desync. Moving to full ethernet concerns me a bit, and further makes me think there's something with the syncing code and water syncing though, which is something I've been suspecting for a long time

[tall mulch]

does beaver buddies work ):

[manic halo]

Yes

[grim marsh]

how well is it woring

[opaque wren]

BeaverBuddies is awesome.

[grim marsh]

how well is it working

[blazing pumice]

it works well

[floral flame]

Thanks for reporting - added an issue.

[floral flame]

I'm guessing the is a vanilla TB thing, since the mod shouldn't affect logic around floating blocks.

[floral flame]

10-20s seems a bit long. How big is your map? This is something that I could probably optimize if it's getting in the way of gameplay, but I think of this as a setting that's usually just on when debugging a desync. Makes sense that players would leave it on though.

[floral flame]

You're very welcome - thanks for sharing!

[floral flame]

Seems like a different philosophy of multiplayer, with more emphasis on syncing state and actions between players, as opposed to just syncing actions and making the game deterministic (which is what BB does). It's a great idea, and one a few folks here have asked for, but it's a huge amount of work. I'm impressed, though I do wonder if this will get it 85% of the way there relatively quickly, but struggle with the 15%. The dev has indicated that's it's heavily AI generated, so I'll be curious to see how brittle it ends up being to work with. But it's good for the community to have some options, so I'm glad to see it.

I just wish he'd spent that time making a fork of BB to clean it up, add all the new features and fix the bugs 😄 Then I could retire happy

[manic halo]

We're on a 256x256 map that has a lot of structures and ~500 beavers at this point so there's probably a lot to process, we ended up turning it off in the end, most of the time when we get desyncs we're typically able to figure out what the cause was anyways.

[verbal ingot]

Similar to this, it seems like automation coloring (e.g. relays) doesn't sync between host<>client