Water Beaver Overhaul

[glossy hornet]

still, didn't know that

[midnight escarp]

I think Lapan also mentioned using other buildings?

[still frigate]

That wasn't a typo. That was my brain just saying supports = platforms. 😛

[glossy hornet]

ngl assumed the flags on mines worked like the levees and had to be grounded

like on the ground grounded

[midnight escarp]

I would be surprised if they didn't require being on ground. But you can raise up the mine from below with some other flat solid building if the cliff is a block or two too tall?

[still frigate]

Exactly. I had assumed they had to be on the ground.

[midnight escarp]

One day I'll actually get the TImprove 4 Mods and make a mod profile so I can play with the Whitepaws instead of just watching others play

[still frigate]

That is essential for me. Especially when I want to do map making.

[heavy lodge]

Mod profile is useless. Must have the possibility to choose what profile to load on the first game screen (mod order screen).

[still frigate]

I can't agree about it being useless. And it can't be on the first screen because the game hasn't loaded mods yet.

[heavy lodge]

That's why cannot be a mod. Must be a game feature.

[still frigate]

Ah!

[midnight escarp]

I'd love it to be a game feature

[still frigate]

yes, that would solve it.

[midnight escarp]

But as a mod, even if I have to load the game, select profile, restart game, that's still a TON better than manually clicking every mod that I want to switch around

[heavy lodge]

Now, we have to restart the game, and, with tons of mods, it takes too long time

[still frigate]

Better to have a slow way than no way. /laughs

[midnight escarp]

My game never takes /that/ long to restart (even with Emberpelts installed and enabled)

And load time isn't a big deal to me if I plan to play for more than an hour anyway

[still frigate]

I'm running an older CPU. I think my desktop was last redone in 2018.

[heavy lodge]

😜

[still frigate]

That looks about right for me too!

There are just soooo many super cool mods.

I am torn. If anyone wants to give me their opinion I would appreciate it.

• Image one is no pool.
• Image two is a 1 block high pool.

Hrm... I guess with WhitePaws it is easier to dynamite something you don't like...

[midnight escarp]

Yeah, maybe the 77 mods will act differently than my 29... but this is my list

Can you guess which one is Emberpelts?

[still frigate]

FieryPitsOfHeck?

[heavy lodge]

Puddles 😛

[shell fiber]

That looks really cool tbh

[still frigate]

I am so glad it worked!

[heavy lodge]

You must try on Thousands Islands 😮

[midnight escarp]

-# Anyway sorry for mildly off topic

[still frigate]

(edited) I enjoy chatting about the game.

[shell fiber]

Oh that is weird. I would have assumed the platform from the copyist was interfering with the "input pipe"

[sullen cape]

Oh I'm looking through the files to see how much drinks quench thirst, and thank you for teaching me what "Amazake" is 🙂

[shell fiber]

The power plug is mostly for the sake of "realism" unlike electrical power, mechanical power can't just go wherever. And sharing between buildings means you'd have power shafts in you living room or something.

[still frigate]

I did always think it was weird the residences were power passthroughs. But industrial buildings... just a cost of doing business. 😛

Of course since this mod mixes both...

[still frigate]

Whitepaws = 46 mods
{other] = 69 mods
map editing = 10 mods

[shell fiber]

both are fine to me, but the player can choose to block off something in solution 1 to make water accumulate and get solution 2, but the opposite is more complicated. so, the more option the better ?

[still frigate]

A minimum of 4 buildings per quad would be needed to block it. But then to unblock it would be 2 dynamite per quad (minimum).

A player will not reach that level in early game so they -should- have plenty of dynamite.

But you do make a good point

I suppose I could meet in the middle and use blockages so they are easy to remove.

[shell fiber]

to expand on that, that is less true now with the base game's universal adaptive shafts, but we used to have a quite expansive system of shafts, 2/3/4 way intersections, going up, down etc. i felt that was interesting, but the game completely undermined itself by having building just share power.

like i've see several playthroughs and who actually uses power shafts ? usually your first few wheels go staight in your lumbermill, then stick some other building to it, then a third one, then more, then eventually add more wheels to whatever building touches the river (and the rest) and here you go, not a single shaft placed.

the only time i see them used is when building a giant windmill / power battery scaffolding tower, which i think is a shame since that entire part of the game is completely wasted.

so no power sharing and power plugs on buildings, just to have a good reason to interact with this system.

[still frigate]

For me, I have a map-wide shared power system, so I have shafts going everywhere in a vanilla game.

Even my normal WhitePaws games I use shared power.

My current map discourages this, but it isn't impossible.

[shell fiber]

well at a certain scale eventually people start using them, but i still think the game really doesn't entice you to use power shafts.

[still frigate]

/nods

The new thumbnail for the map (version 0.3)

[still frigate]

@crisp parcel @radiant arch This is the new look.

[radiant arch]

no worry, they easily go through ground - indeed quite beautiful to see them rise from the ocean floor!

[still frigate]

Nice! 👍

[shell fiber]

hmm... there is odd things going on with the balloon animation...
basically the 'mechanical node animator' component that should animate things based on power availability alone, behaves like a 'workshop animator' if the building is a workshop.
of course that was not the only issue on you guys' side, but that's still odd.

also thankfully i had the balloons blender animations already made from the U6 port and saved in the folder, not entirely sure how i had them disabled in the first place but whatever

now the big question is how do i get a hitbox on the actual balloon in blender rather than in unity ?

[sullen cape]

||Need.WaterpumpDeath.DeathMessage|| Hmm what is this

[shell fiber]

where did you see that ?

[sullen cape]

Digging in the steam mod files

||Blueprints\Needs\Basic needs\NeedSpecification.Beaver.WaterpumpDeath.json||

[radiant arch]

is there a way for the map plugin to set rice and sequoias?
i know birches are replaced with brambles - but what is rice and sequoia? mangroves + oaks?? (oak=everblossom??)

[shell fiber]

that's the ||oversized water pump isekai|| message

[shell fiber]

i think they are not in the map editor mod, too many plants make a huge mess of the menu.
i think the mangroves are in there though

[sullen cape]

Oh that's good to know, I'll still build one I think

[radiant arch]

those needs are very well-balanced: you'll see different ones at times, but never get flooded with them.
even if you have a dozen of those you'd only get a message every now and then.

[shell fiber]

probability is very low

oh, i found out why the balloons where behaving strangely, the animator was likely fused with the thing that moved ironteeth recreation buildings 🙂

[sullen cape]

Yeah i don't mind the Grue message

[shell fiber]

okay, all balloon animation seem in order, now all balloons go at different angles, and at different speeds

they also fly off with different starting delay

now i need to find an animator script that works, maybe the one from wind turbines can do

🤔

[radiant arch]

so excited for this!

[radiant arch]

something went wrong with this..

[sullen cape]

Do you have an outlet? I can see a row of water sources that are blocking the water out of the map, even with the dirt in the way it works to the top of the map

[radiant arch]

the floating absorbers. but those are rather hard to balance with 380 power water source..

very fun to play with. sky water sources, sinkholes and floating crystals

[heavy lodge]

Waterworld at extreme level 😍 😅

[radiant arch]

balanced

with this mod it's quite another level of water management

sadly my PC not handles big maps .. might otherwise be curious to explore making the mines of moria with hidden dangers and secrets (and balrog?)

enormous caves are easy to make with this now

(ruins suffer from same issue as super irrigation towers - they never vanish when scaling layers)

[shell fiber]

doesn't that lag like crazy ?

i always wondered how too many water sources would impact performances

i'm still fighting the balloons, the animation works but it's still awkward because it stops as soon as the beavers gets out of it

ideally it would be better to keep it not using workers

but in that case i need to rethink the system so it doens't get stuck like it always does.

one solution could be to rework trade so that you have a normal ground building that consume some whatever ressource (that includes the methane etc) to produce some "trading package" of sorts.

then the balloon just exchange that for the ressource you want

[radiant arch]

it's more about the total number of voxels having some flowing water i guess.. it get's worse with complex layouts. otherwise on my PC it's around a 300 beaver population - just without the beavers

[radiant arch]

sounds nice

[sullen cape]

Hmm, my Tapper's flag keeps killing my beavers by getting them stuck until I pause the flag
They just sit there trying to tap the Pine tree forever, and die as soon as I pause the flag unfortunately

[radiant arch]

is this a special tree?
had the same issue with a lumberjack for every tree that was accessed using a crane

[shell fiber]

damn i think i just understood what had been he most mind-boggling thing about the "bottom matching prefab" script

the rules have always been near incomprehensible

i thought it was a matter of matching properly occupancy between the top and bottom part

but no

no no no no

no it's as plain and dumb as "does the building specified exist in voxel (0;0)" in addition to the regular block occupancy...

[shell fiber]

well i guess the balloon pads won't be flippable after all 😓

because if you flip it, the crane is no longer occupying (0;0)

hence the balloon, even if flipped, no longer sees the landing pad

and as you can see, i had to make the house door point outside because the door can only point toward you in editor, and i needed the house in the bottom left corner to be under the crane

but that is minor

also since having an actual beaver in the balloon crashes the game as soon as it goes out of the map box, i have made the beaver in the balloon be a gold fur beaver, to reduce confusion

(hopefully)

of course this could work :

but i would have to remodel the building to give it a 45° wall so that the door looks okay either way

and right now... i don't really want to

[spring heath]

wow thank you for all your effort with these balloons!

similarly to my WPL the other day, I just had another flooded-building-trapping-beavers situation. This time it was a pit-and-ladder lodge (hauler w/ side entry). I dunno if it's a mod thing or a game thing, probably testable tbf, but the beaver get stuck inside, needs dwindling, until the offending building is demolished (i.e. disconnecting path doesn't fix). I only noticed this time because I had 6 homeless beavers and like 10 empty beds lol, the P+L is kinda out of the way

[shell fiber]

lights on 🙂

[shell fiber]

i don't really understand the situation, do you have a screenshot ?

[spring heath]

not from the time but here's where it was

the building flagged as Flooded. my UI housing summary indicated 5/6 homeless beavers, but on scrolling the expanded Population tab, I saw no beavers without an 'address' (all had an icon where their home is listed). Upon clicking the P+L I saw it had inhabitants (even when paused), and clicking on those inhabitants locked the camera onto the P+L. Upon demolition, 5/6 beavers ran off from the site, all Exhausted

[glossy hornet]

not gonna lie, wish the placement instructions were less vague on this thing

doesn't help that my dynamite production is extremely bottlenecked by the lack of nitroglycerine production. and I can't get more nitro until I get more labs, which I can't get until I get quartz

[radiant arch]

you can save a little on the dynamite if you use curved stairs. if that is any help

otherwise that phase of the game is tricky indeed

[glossy hornet]

the problem is I made the hole too wide

[radiant arch]

too bad..

[glossy hornet]

can I pad the walls with platforms or something? would that work?

[radiant arch]

filling up holes is the one thing that's super late and super slow in this mod..

[glossy hornet]

welp

[radiant arch]

it's ground-only i believe. so no

you could cheat the earth back, but that's all i know

(or load an autosave)

sorry..

[glossy hornet]

eh not your fault dw

[glossy hornet]

tried that and forgot that I was impatient and blew up the dynamite piece by piece

[radiant arch]

me too, every time 🙂

[glossy hornet]

ok so what's the dang hitbox here is it 5x5 with a small cutout is it 5x4?

[radiant arch]

it's 3x2 for the actual mine part + 4x2 for stairs

but cut out stairs as you need only

mine part + entry must be 4 deep

all the fence is on solid ground

[glossy hornet]

so 3x2+1

[radiant arch]

• stairs

if you got ladder 3x2+1 is enough actually (or was the little fireplace-thingy too? not sure)

[glossy hornet]

I'm saying +1 for like a theoretical ladder or something right at the entrance yeah

would this work? 2x2 of spiral stairs snaking down into the 3x2 for the mine

[radiant arch]

sadly misplaced the image with the 'easy' layout..

the mine itself is 3x2 (the entry) +1 (the fireplace) + entry tile

[glossy hornet]

so flip it and add a thing for the fireplace and it's good?

[radiant arch]

XXXXX
XMMMX
XMMMXX
XM4__X
123__X
XXXXXX

X is a fence, M is the mine (4 deep), numbers is dynamite depth for stairs (curved + normal), _ can be left alone if you have curved stairs

[glossy hornet]

ty, helps a ton

so this would work, right?

[radiant arch]

there's no space towards the storage (for the fence) but otherwise the hole should work, i hope

[glossy hornet]

so it wouldn't place because of the storange but otherwise it's good?

[radiant arch]

please save before trying 🤞

[glossy hornet]

will do

[glossy hornet]

YES

[still frigate]

thb, I had trouble figuring that one out too. I had to experement a few times until I had it figured out... or so I thought. I had no idea the entire L didn't need to be 4 deep! I just assumed ladders were the way to go.

When I was playtesting it, the dirt block was missing in U7 so even in ||dev mode|| there was no undoing a bad dynamite pattern.

I like that it is a non-square and took some trial and error for me to figure out. These little things make the mod that much more unique and seriously add to the charm.

[still frigate]

My similar one with water sources all along the bottom, is one of the few maps that I can run smoothly at 30 speed on my machine.

[radiant arch]

your map design really has a great low-complexity-high-visual approach to the water flow

[still frigate]

1. are you running FreeFlow mod? If not, I -strongly- suggest it for intense water mechanics stuff.

[radiant arch]

free flow is awesome, yes. not used for this

[still frigate]

2. that is why I have the corner drains on mine. If waters goes above a "max height" they will take care of it.

[radiant arch]

copied that from you

works like a charm, once it's tuned

[still frigate]

Yep!

Glad it works for ya!

My initial version of the map only had one space at each corner and with "ebb and flow" + monsoon weather, I actually overloaded and it wasn't draining fast enough. So I expanded the corners a little.

[radiant arch]

sounds tricky.. did you try if it works without free flow too? for me that had quite an impact on flooding

[still frigate]

I haven't... but I will now that you mention it.

Fortunately that is one that can have settings changed on the fly. 🙂

I just set it to disabled. lets see what happens!

I need to let it run a few days, but I think everything is draining okay. I don't have any "climbing water" either, but that is more luck than intelligent design.

[radiant arch]

might have little to no effect on your map actually - it only changes how water flows if there's more than 1m to a column

[still frigate]

I'm in a "surprisiningly refreshing" weather mode, so I want that to end because I can't tell what the change has done to my badwater.

The uppermost water sources are set to 3.333333.

All the middle tier ones are set to 8.

None of the waters sources in the lower level should be unblocked. Except the negative water drain and it seems to be working fine too.

The middle tier corners have a different water pattern but still play nice.

into "rainy" weather and the changed freeflow mode is blocking 2 of the 4 badwater exits. So it just flows out of the open two. So no true affect in -this- map.

Actially... it -seems- to have made the badwater ratio lower. I'll need a few more days after the "surprisingly refreshing" before I am certain of this.

Oh! there it is! Here's some effects!

image 1 - free flow "disabled"
image 2 - free flow "unlimited"

It is minor, but the water patterns in image 1 are "rougher"

image 1 - free flow "disabled"
image 2 - free flow "unlimited"

[radiant arch]

free flow looks much better imho

[still frigate]

"height multiplied" overloads the drains

Even with the corners overloaded at the top, the bottom levels didn't flood.

monsoon weather jsut started. Gonna see how that changes in the 3 modes.

I get some flooding in all 3 modes.

"height multiplied" has the least flooding, surprisingly.

[radiant arch]

is it much worse without free flow?

[still frigate]

not more than about 2/3 of a block.

[radiant arch]

i usually need to downscale some (increase the drain) for that mod

[radiant arch]

that's pretty decent if it stays within that range

[still frigate]

I made the map with "unlimited" in mind.

I wanted there to be some possibility of flooding but not map-filling levels. 😉

[radiant arch]

nice!

btw: love the design on water beavers living on top of the water (mostly)

[still frigate]

Yeah. The water is contaminated so I try to minimize how much they spend in it. Even 5% contamination will eventually make a beaver sick.

Ah-ha! my top -finally- flooded! Nice!

Even "paradise" isn't safe. Bwa-ha-ha!

With @ionic swift and @cobalt wraith my waterworks are just so much more fun!

On the upper level, I also have a center area that will drop massive amounts of water to the middle level so that the whole of the upper level doesn't become a pool.

The flooding has caused me to start running out of drinking water, but that isn't a map problem, that is a settlement design problem.

Sorry, I can't help it. I have to quote "The Rime of the Ancient Mariner": "Water, water everywhere, nor any drop to drink"

I should unlock deepwater pumps so I can put these things one more block higher and not fail during a flood. But I spend science soooooooo fast. /laughs

awww... monsoon is over. Levels are slowly returning to normal.

deepwater pumps are only 150 science. I think I'll save up and do that.

[radiant arch]

yeah, science is cheap for them, yet they need metal + tar

[still frigate]

only scrap, not beams. I can deal with that.

[radiant arch]

curiously, as they benefit from worker bonus, they aren't much slower than the mechanized pumps late game

[still frigate]

Yeah, and I have over 100 unemployed beavers so labor isn't an issue.

[cobalt wraith]

Btw, I legitimately appreciate all of the feedback you’ve given me so far. I’m going to push the patch for the negative values just to be safe on EaF, and also have the contamination % defaulted off because of this mod

I wouldn’t have known if someone hadn’t said, so I appreciate it!

[still frigate]

I am glad it helps. I worry about over-pining people.

Back when I was a modder I loved discussing the effects and uses of my stuff with the players. But, again, I am a chatty old man. 😛

[still frigate]

@shell fiber I'm not requesting you change this; I just find it amusing that my beavers love to "hang out" even when the building part is done.

🤣

[spring heath]

rebuilt it in the same place... no issues this time

[spring heath]

do grav-bats not connect underneath anymore?

easy to shimmy them over, just not how I remember them working lol

[still frigate]

I didn't think -anything- in WhitePaws connected underneath, but I never tested that one.

[spring heath]

to my memory it was these and only these

[still frigate]

Ah.

Anyone: Am I imagining it, or wasn't there something that would take excess types of a book/scroll and recycle it or sell it? Like I accidently made 75 blueprints for the mechanical part of the ENS. There is no way I'll ever make 75 normal schools. 😛

I know, my fault for not paying attention to my duplicators, but still... I thought there was something somewhere?

[still frigate]

@shell fiber You got rid of the rooftop terrace, correct?

[still frigate]

Version 0.3 of this map is treating me very well... save for a lot of sick beavers... but not nearly as many as I had in version 0.2.

I am working on a power tower to get my drive shaft to the beaver washer on the second level. In the future it will go to the third level too because... why not? 😛

Now running deep water pumps so they didn't flood, but a lot of my fermenters (both here and over where I make beer) did.

More unreal architecture. 😛

[shell fiber]

Ah, well the crane is almost a debugging tool, you probably should remove it once it has done it's job 😅

[shell fiber]

Base game I think it does, but not mine. It's because vertical power shafts used to cost only one log, so it was too prevent cheezing

[shell fiber]

You always delete them in devmode but otherwise no way to destroy/recycle them

[shell fiber]

Ah some point it weirdly becomes believable again 😅

[shell fiber]

@ all do you want me to make terraforming easier ? honestly i don't care much about this feature, being able to overhang terrain is important for me to play on maps like hollows and such, so i'm still pushing to the U7 update, but the ability for the player to terraform sideways ? meh. i won't use it personnally but opinions are welcome.

[radiant arch]

for me that's perfectly fine as is. not a fan of big sideway terraforming either. that's kinda a map-maker thing imho
also love the current balance. feels rewarding to me to carefully consider with few tree nurseries, yet still can place a couple of blocks easily too.

[heavy lodge]

still, some maps like Diorama will be forbidden in this case.

[shell fiber]

why forbidden ?

[heavy lodge]

YEAH, you can play, but, for how long ?

[radiant arch]

diorama is fine to play - even with badtides and all. just very slow

got to 400 beavers and wonder and all just fine there (edit not mind gravity..)

[heavy lodge]

I mean with whitepaws, where you can place all buildings and to have some space for crops and trees ?

[radiant arch]

you just build towers essentially

problem is actually dealing with the little energy water gives you

[heavy lodge]

sure, with the lack of platforms....

[shell fiber]

well i agree that playing whitepaws on an exceedingly tiny map is asking for trouble...

[radiant arch]

well it is troublesome

[heavy lodge]

Diorama is not exceeding tiny, Whitepaws is too big without terraforming.

[shell fiber]

is that infinite platforms using hanging squewer platforms ?

not gonna lie i probably should delete deprecate that item

[radiant arch]

that's ancient. would need to adapt that now. not currently possible

[shell fiber]

it was mostly a test in the first place, i didn't think it through 😅

[radiant arch]

it's perfectly save now. only up to two squewers ever

[shell fiber]

I'm currently looking at a complete rework of the trade system, for now if i look at the existing trade, i can divide inputs in the following categories :

__Foodstuffs : __

• braised cabbage
• pumpkins
• Fried Rice
• Nenuphars
• Mushrooms
• Kimchi
• Chestnuts
• Awfulstew

Drinks & Fun :

• Amazake
• Redsoda
• LotusTea
• Chestnutbeer
• Wine
• Toys
• Comicbooks

Construction stuff :

• Gears
• Scaffoldings
• PineResin (?)
• Metal fixtures
• ScrapMetal
• Tools
• MetalBlock
• Explosives

Health / Curios :

• Basic Balm
• Cure
• Brainsalts
• Minty bamboo Shoots
• Strong Alcohol
• Hooman Relic
• Foreign Food

basically the idea would be to have a "packaging plant" or "trading center" of sorts, that has for each 2 recipes, for example a "low grade food pack" full of a large amount of cabbage, pumpkins, rice, mushrooms and whatever raw ingredients you can easily get your hands paws on, and an other "quality food pack" that would cost a lot less, but use only cooked foods etc.

but to reduce clutter, both reciepe would yield the same item, that is then traded alone in the balloon to solve the worker vs animation issue

then each faction you trade with exchanges whatever they make against a given type of package

damn that's going to be a crapton of work

there gotta be a better solution

[radiant arch]

sounds fun

almost could give the poor balloon beaver some packed water too haha

[shell fiber]

and cereal bars 🙂

[radiant arch]

way to solve a visual problem with immense work 🙂

the principle actually would nicely fit airships too, if you got that way. imho they are too cheap rn

[shell fiber]

hmm...actually, the problem with the trading balloons is that the methane is taking up the majority of the inventory

but i can offload the methane to the landing pad, who would consume it for power

that is transfered to the balloon

so that would actually solve 95% of the issue

the last one being the sky exploration balloon

oh, i have an idea too annoying to animate

i've been itching to make the viewing spot tower or whatever it's called more usefull

the observation deck yeah

[cloud flax]

Smart power was really game changer!! Would be hell without it

[shell fiber]

I realised that one of the reasons why the balloon platform was so complicated in the first place was because... Well beavers have to get up there to actually build the balloon 😑

But the food news is, the functionality seems to work : the platform consumes methane for power, which means the balloon can run their recipe with only one input, which means we won't run into that annoying hauling issue anymore

And the animation runs as long as methane is available

[heavy lodge]

Hmm, Brambles planted by farmers, but under Forest and appear under Forest Tool Comfiguration 😱

[sullen cape]

I think it is a special tree, maybe I'll replant it
I have old save files with it if needed
And sometimes they can harvest the tree, but it seems to be the same tree each time

[sullen cape]

Oh and I miss the 2x2 Pumpkins 🎃

[spring heath]

Brambles are planted by tree nursery, which is essentially Forester+

[storm prawn]

Were wild brambles even plantable at all? (take a good look at that unresolved lockey)... No, this mod's version is wholly unplantable
Oh wait, those seem like those from moreplants/mapreader... Anyhow, they do count as trees/bushes..

And yes, Domesticated Brambles are a (different) thing.

[storm prawn]

@still frigate @shell fiber I just had a quick look, seems like the WaterInput Component on that small badwater pump got really out of wack: it was reporting negative water-depth ... no clue how that happened unfortunately

[heavy lodge]

I must have been posted a larger picture. The faction is Emberpelts and is about Map Reader mod.

[glossy hornet]

Weird

[storm prawn]

yep, looks like something dragged the waterinputcoordinates (which should have sat on that propeller) up by one ... for some reason placing a copyist lodge with its overhang over it does do just that (at least after save&load) ... how peculiar. Just checked again, and this seems to be it. No clue why the intake coordinates would move up like that, but oh well.

[shell fiber]

I'll take a look

[storm prawn]

Alright then. Probably an edge case about the occupancy of the voxel right above the propeller - it also ends up reporting a 'max input pipe' depth of 0.
No clue if it's even fixable

[snow scroll]

Damn you work hard at play! Keep up the good work!

[shell fiber]

looking at the small badwaterpump, the data is correct, but apparently anything immediately above the propeller will interfere with it. i'll see if i can adjust something, but the voxel where the propeller is is actually watertight so there's maybe not so much to do about that.
worst case scenario, i'll just forbit placing anything in that voxel, but that will cause the copyist lodge to vanish

who was it who had this problem?

[heavy lodge]

🤣

[shell fiber]

wait what was the issue ? this still works 🤔

[shell fiber]

ah, yes

problem is that this damn bug takes a lot of work to fix

[sullen cape]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KijulosjYF0
JC's Waterbeaver's Map review, it's amazing what you can do with this mod 🙂

[midnight escarp]

I half read that and thought his current series was over already. Glad I read it wrong.

[shell fiber]

okay, new ballon plaftform works, new scouting balloon works, time to roll out the change to all other balloons 🙂

unfortunately old balloons will definitely vanish

landing pads should be fine

ah, but that will mess with everyone using steam, and they can't roll back to the previous version

f*$% 's sake

or... people can just recreate them with devmode, it's not as if the balloons vanishing would erase half their colonies 🤔
also i lost the data of the old scouting balloon 😑

[sullen cape]

The popular Stellaris mod Gigastructures has roll backs by uploading the old version as a new mod each time the main game updates, but that might be a pain

[midnight escarp]

I guess the people who get the mod on steam can still roll back using the mod.io versions (though I wish Steam let you have versions other than the latest installed for workshop items)

[storm prawn]

Save & load. It doesnt register the obstacle right away.

[shell fiber]

oh, right

well that's weird

[astral harbor]

The only thing I miss in this model is some kind of rope ladder from the building to the landing pad to symbolize how beavers get to the baloon.

[radiant arch]

little wooden logs ladder on that pole down to the lodge would be nice too imho (if rope ladder is too complicated )

[shell fiber]

i figured they just ride the crane ?

[astral harbor]

Crane looks lke it's being operated from the platform 😄

So looks like 1st beaver would have to teleport there to bring the others

Also I do feel that rope ladder would fit the theme really good

Also I think it would be fun to have option to put up to 3 beavers into ballon (also helping out with moving goods to it).

In real world its rare that somebody flyies balon by himself. Usually it's 2-4 ppl

[shell fiber]

how about like that ? 😊

[shell fiber]

true, but at the end of the day the beavers would remain fake even if i put more in the balloon

[astral harbor]

That's a beuty! 😄

[astral harbor]

Aren't the new baloons having the dedicated beaver now? You could just allow placing up to 3 in there. 😄

[shell fiber]

nope, that messes up the animation, having ballon stop and freeze in mid-air is an absolute eyesore to me, so i have to keep them unstaffed.
also if a beaver in a beaver display slot is taken out of the map's bounds, the game crashes

and since i have no control on where the player would build the balloon pad, i wouldn't be able to make the balloon do much more than go straight up.

which would be sad

[astral harbor]

I'm confused now. I get that they cannot be part of the animation of the baloon, but this also means no workers can be assigned to the baloon?

[radiant arch]

it's perfect!

[radiant arch]

you can assign them to the lodge, handling the crane and cargo. than the methane is running the balloon and a "fake beaver" (aka bobby) is send abroad

[astral harbor]

Yeah aside of the animation, I was just thinking about having ability to employ more than 1 beaver to supply the baloon.

[shell fiber]

yeah it's confusing.

basically the balloons use the "mechanical node animator" component, which animated a thing permanently if it is purely mechanical (power shafts, numbercruncher) but only animates when the building is "occupied" which means having a beaver enjoying a carousel ride, of being in the building for running its reciepes.

so basically if i allow even one beaver to be stationned in the building for any reason, the animation will freeze as soon as it gets out, for example at night, when it's hungry, thirsty, whatever.

but right now the reciepes have only 1 input, which solves the hauling issue, so no worries anymore 🙂

[storm prawn]

@shell fiber Finally figured what caused the 'viable water depth' to go negative: it looks for obstacles from top down, and set the voxel above the first/highest one as the updated input coordinates. Also, found a component that could be added to any prefab that could overhang there, to get it ignored as an obstacle to to the water-input: PipeIntersectionAllowerSpec

[shell fiber]

Yeah but I would need to add that to almost every single building and that would allow weird stuff, like bridges crossing through water pump pipes 😓

I'll just set the occupancy off the building to also use the voxel above the propeller and that will fix it with no issue 99% of the time

[still frigate]

How do you solve it in the big bad water pump? Because it works just fine for me. I build things on top of it without problem. Like I'll have a large bad water pump, a 3x2 building of some sort, a bunch of platforms, an overhang and then another large bad water pump, etc.

[still frigate]

(edited above. I sorta fell asleep mid-post) 😊

It is hard to see because I have so much other crap here. But there are three large badwater pumps here.

[still frigate]

(I do have to use an edge-platform over the actual propeller.)

[storm prawn]

Perhaps, the actual platform-overhangs have better clearance (bottom of voxel above, rather than top of base voxel - or something like that)? Or does the waterinput for the larger badwaterpump sit lower - in the propeller 'hole'...
Lapan, is there any difference in their (copyst overhang & regular overhang platforms) blockOccupancy? Can't even try to check myself till next evening

[still frigate]

@shell fiber

I have a beaver washer frustration/quesiton.

This needs deeper water, but If I put this one block lower, it counts as flooded. The only way I have ever gotten these to work is to use the primitive dams.

Is that your intent or is it bugged? I'm okay with either answer, I just wanted to know how you envisioned it.

[still frigate]

Solved -this- instance with dams, buildings, and hanging platforms.

[storm gulch]

Hey, any reason why the Update 6 WB mod dependencies are throwing this message at me and crashing the game on load?

Timberborn is set to the Update 6 version and I checked file integrity

I haven't added any new mods or updated stuff, it's not given me this kind of error before either even with mods having newer versions for the Update 7 stuff

The game version I have for WB (and have had for this entire playthrough) is v0.6.9.4-5873e3b-sw

[heavy lodge]

Steam always update mods to the latest version. So, for U6, need to use ModIO do dowload the compatible version of mods.

[storm gulch]

I have never had this problem with these mods and have been playing on this version for months while the dependency mods have been continuously updated without it affecting this

It's just really weird

I used to have to have an entirely separate Timberborn folder for steam to load old versions but ever since the change to mod structure with U6 it just automatically gave me the correct mod versions for anythingI had loaded, never had to mess with it

[heavy lodge]

Let me check if 1X1X1Storage mod use correct versioning system

YA, it not use versioning system. You need to disable the steam version and download the correct version from ModIO

[storm gulch]

ugh

Thanks, though

Is "1x1x2Storage" named something else on mod IO?

[midnight escarp]

https://mod.io/g/timberborn/m/2-tall-small-storage#description

[storm gulch]

Ahhhh

[midnight escarp]

I think

[storm gulch]

I had been putting 1x1x2 into it and it only showed the tubeway thing

[heavy lodge]

You have been too fast, this time 🤣

[storm gulch]

Alright, I've pulled the correct versions from mod IO

Will check and report back

Fantastic, we're in business

Really appreciate your help!

[heavy lodge]

This is how my mods look using versioning system. But , for larger mods, and WB mods for sure are huge, it's not an option ...

[heavy lodge]

After cabbages, now sunflower 😭

[heavy lodge]

Wait, this is due to rotating sun mod 😱

[wheat apex]

They rotated so hard to follow the sun they (visually) shifted position?

[shell fiber]

the larger one is different, because the propeller voxel is not watertight

[still frigate]

Ah

[shell fiber]

also, that really shouldn't be possible

[still frigate]

Oh? It worked in U6 too.

There just has to be a space between them.

[shell fiber]

oh, wait, no actually that is fine

[shell fiber]

well... yes, that is a frequent issue with buildings that need water, but don't want to be flooded themselves, generally you need a dam or something to maintain roughtly 0.5 water level in their pond, that is a base game behavior

[still frigate]

ah. no worries then.

[shell fiber]

it doesn't ?

[shell fiber]

i was thinking about the part where you said the building could actually suck water from under it, that shouldn't be possible, but stacking buildings like that and keeping the whole thing submerged is possible.

in the meantime, i've been investigating the issue with the wonder not being accessible fromt the bottom and found the answer

unfortunately "answer" ≠ "solution"

because the problem comes directly from one of the wonder scripts

[sullen cape]

Oh that's annoying

Hmm
My colony has run out of food that's not pumpkin chips at the moment, but my beavers are complaining about being hungry.
Do they avoid eating food for which they've maxed the well-being bonus from?
In vanilla I can sustain a colony on just bread for a very long time...

[shell fiber]

pumpkin chips specifically, because of salt

but i could remove that

actually that was mostly because pumpkin chips were filling only 0.1 hunger, which made them edible way early than other foods, and would have caused beaver to overeat them

at the expense of other foods and needs

so i guess the restriction has lost its reason to be now

[shell fiber]

fixing this now, i had forgot to package the U6 version on the last steam update

[shell fiber]

Updating mod now 🙂

[sullen cape]

Oh I had the same problem when I had no water and only Amazake, but that makes a lot of sense when you think about it 😉

[heavy lodge]

#1070709592176197642 message

[shell fiber]

hmm... something seems wrong with mod.io, it doesn't upload

ah, no progressingl slowly

so what else was on the list ? sorry i know i keep forgetting.
maybe look at the ziplines etc 🤔

oh right, i wanted to think about removing the blueprint from the balloon platforms

ziplines stations would be a good candidate for a blueprintable building honestly

[heavy lodge]

Hope not to be the pillars, too 🤣

[still frigate]

So long as they can be copied. 😛

[shell fiber]

i'm thinking about reworking the observation deck into a ropeway hub 🤔

ooh

[still frigate]

With shroom juice gone are all affected rescipes adjsuted as well?

[radiant arch]

no more shroom juice??

[still frigate]

See the bottom of the changelog above.

[shell fiber]

pretty much everything that was taking shroomjuice now just take mushrooms

oh, wait, crap, did i remove the reciepe from the screw press ?

yes

good

so let's think about those ropeways :

the observation deck becomes a station, because it goes with farms and stuff so it's good to have direct connection to the rest of the colony

we probably need the normal arm and tower relays anyway 🤔

now the question is : do i also add other stations ?

i like the idea of farms having an integrated ropeway hub, not gonna lie

so i could just add one to the large farmhouse too

possibly the treenursery 🤔

people have been wanting for a permanent house-type scavenger place, that's also an option if the

ooooh

if the ropeway eats way less walk range, i can make a scavenger house grafted with a ropeway, this way you can just place a ropeway exit next to ruins and have that place scavenge from the whole map 🤔

i need to test that immediately

aaah, neat ! the work range transfers 😈

[midnight escarp]

Yeah, quite a bit, too #🐸experimental message

[radiant arch]

that's a sure win for big farms and tree nurseries!

[shell fiber]

according to the specs, one unit of zipline distance is worth 0.4 actual range

i'll test if i can overwrite it

[still frigate]

Hopefully to increase the range?

[shell fiber]

i think we're in business 😊

oh, i have yet an other idea 😅

ah, but that's not a very realistic idea

i was thinking instead of relay towers, i could attach the relay wheel under a balloon and that's it 🤔

hmm... maybe... if i can make those enterable nonetheless and consume some methane...

[radiant arch]

oh.. wait.. the game is supposed to crash if you not removed all old balloons?

kinda thought they only would fly away.. hmm

[radiant arch]

that's not it.. 😭

removed the shroom recipe, removed the balloons.. removed the ballon platforms.. it still crashes on new version

can you make anything out of this? game crashes only on new version - even without balloons

[shell fiber]

hmm... it doesn't say what the issue is. does starting a new game work ?

[radiant arch]

can start a new game, yes

label "NEWLandingPad" not has any texts.

the wonder works again

only can not load the old game and dunno why or what to remove to fix it..

what else did you change? the small bad water pump? anthing else?

[sullen cape]

I'm in late earlygame, but it's still super satisfying
The map is a little tricky but I'm getting better at it

[radiant arch]

could the remaining mushroom juice be a problem that causes the crash? that isn't it either.. hmm.. 😒

[radiant arch]

removing all the mushroom juice, the abyss labs, balloons, platforms, wonder.. did not solve anything..
error seems not to relate to either balloons, balloon platforms nor use or storage of mushroom juice ..

any other ideas for what might break my save on the new version? (still same exception..)

[shell fiber]

sorry for the wait, i'm back

do you have the "more logs" mod added ?

there is clearly something wrong with one manufactory building, but i cannot figure out which one

ah !

may have an idea

possibly forgot to remove one component in one of the balloons

any chance you can send me your save ?

hmmm no all balloons seems indeed correct, no crash detected :/

althought the animation of the crane is whacked for some reaons 🙁

what in the f...

i had redone the animation entirely, and now it's back at the previous one ? goddammit

[radiant arch]

it's actually the NEWScrewpress (i believe)

[shell fiber]

hmm... would be a possibility but i did remove the reciepe properly

did you update with steam or mod.io ?

[radiant arch]

mod.io

no fragments

[shell fiber]

i supposed you already tried uninstalling reinstalling the mod

can you try to roll back, make sure no screwpress are making shroomjuice, and re-update ?

[radiant arch]

did all that

next (and last step) would be removing the screwpresses alltogether

just removing all shroom juice form the game and setting another recipe did not work

[shell fiber]

that is weird

removing something from the game usually is not problematic

[radiant arch]

that fixed that issue 🙂

now it's down to broken recipes it seems:

15:15:21 TimberApi.Tools.ToolSystem.ToolService.Load() executed in 00:00:12.1552017
15:15:45 WorldEntitiesLoader.LoadEntity(GMO_Lab) failed with an exception
15:15:45 Timberborn.WorldPersistence.WorldEntitiesLoader.LoadNonSingletons() failed after 00:00:23.5613904

so part (1) screwpress is crashing game by just being build

part (2) recipes must not be set to what you removed / changed it seems

[shell fiber]

what ? how ?

i litterally just tried building a bunch

that makes no sense

[radiant arch]

if you build them with the old version and load them with the new one?

[shell fiber]

maybe the mod.io upload if messed up

i'll give it a try

[radiant arch]

can confirm that steam version throws same error as mod.io - this only applies to save files containing screwpress and possibly other buildings involving recipes that used to use mushroom juice

new games are fully fine it seems (as far as i could test)

[shell fiber]

oh, the screwpress animations are broken 🤔
well, not important

i made a new game with 5.1.7 and build a few screwpresses wiht different reciepes

loading up 5.1.8 now

i have no idea what is going on, but crash indeed

i'll try to re-add it in the game then, for now

[radiant arch]

removing all GMO, abyss labs and screwpresses does load the savegame 🙂

sorry for the trouble, Lapan

[shell fiber]

no worries,

adding back the shroomjuice and the reciepe allowed the save to load properly

i'll push that update quickly because you're maybe not the only one

probably not actually

[radiant arch]

your update may bring hundreds of beavers closer to witness the wonder of their lives 😇

[shell fiber]

can you try to load your previous save see if it works ? the original one

[radiant arch]

i'll try

getting the same exception for the GMO still - would need to remove the building to "fix" the save

16:26:49 TimberApi.Tools.ToolSystem.ToolService.Load() executed in 00:00:11.8701934
16:27:12 WorldEntitiesLoader.LoadEntity(GMO_Lab) failed with an exception
16:27:12 Timberborn.WorldPersistence.WorldEntitiesLoader.LoadNonSingletons() failed after 00:00:22.9383733

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at System.Collections.Immutable.ImmutableArray`1[T].get_Length () [0x00000] in <6bb08d37de124a778ca2954872cc5e3e>:0 
...
  at Timberborn.Workshops.Manufactory+<>c__DisplayClass56_0.<Load>b__1 (Timberborn.Workshops.RecipeSpec recipe) [0x00007] in <2faf26ae5050456881bf46466a306559>:0 
  at System.Linq.ImmutableArrayExtensions.SingleOrDefault[T] (System.Collections.Immutable.ImmutableArray`1[T] immutableArray, System.Func`2[T,TResult] predicate) [0x00029] in <6bb08d37de124a778ca2954872cc5e3e>:0 
  at Timberborn.Workshops.Manufactory.Load (Timberborn.WorldPersistence.IEntityLoader entityLoader) [0x00051] in <2faf26ae5050456881bf46466a306559>:0 
...
  at (wrapper dynamic-method) MonoMod.Utils.DynamicMethodDefinition.Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleService.LoadNonSingletons_Patch0(Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleService)
  at (wrapper dynamic-method) MonoMod.Utils.DynamicMethodDefinition.Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleService.LoadAll_Patch1(Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleService)
  at Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleUnityAdapter.Start () [0x00000] in <9117b1294fcf4df390fc07f3eef2285e>:0

no problem with the srewpress this time

not tested, but might apply to abyss lab too, if you want to test again with save & load on your end

[shell fiber]

but i only changed the reciepe for those, this doesn't make any goddamn sense 😭

[radiant arch]

maybe U7 does not approve of changes to recipes anymore.. or softly antagonises your disliking of superior mushroom juice

was it simple to just replace them with NEWNEW instances?

[shell fiber]

there's a good chance that would work

i'll try to remove shroomjuice but have berry juice replace it

[radiant arch]

doesn't replacing it with actual mushrooms work too?? if berries work?

oh, the screwpress.. yeah..

[shell fiber]

oh, well it's a liquid so i figured i may as well turn it into berryjuice

but nah, doesn't work

this is whole situation is absolutely deranged

that makes no f*#$king sense

[radiant arch]

made a wee map 🙂

slightly extended it

and now gonna see if whitepaws can settle caves and mines 🤔

btw: was there a plan for lifts too?

like.. vertical distance crossing?

[shell fiber]

oooh

i don't know if that's going to be fun or painful 😅

but be careful, i think for the map context, modded maps are not acceptable !

[radiant arch]

yeah, no contest for that

just had to test the limits of your mod and something really really big, yet somehow different from open plains

[tawdry bronze]

can you try replace the Blueprint/recipies folder with this and tell if it works?
or not so tech sawy to find the mod and the folder
#🤖mod-creators message
else you will have to wait for tomorrow if he has time to try fix it

[radiant arch]

me? ok.. give me a minute or 5

[radiant arch]

there's a formal problem with the recipe definitions. edit can't load the mod even

[woeful sun]

Does More Mod Logs say which json file failed to parse?

[radiant arch]

sadly no. trying to figure it out, but it's too many..

the log with MoreModLogs did only give this part on the exception

[woeful sun]

RecipeSpecification.LibraryScience.json looks bad

so does RecipeSpecification.ResinSynthesis.json

[radiant arch]

yeah, missing brackets

[woeful sun]

comma

[radiant arch]

oh, darn^^

[woeful sun]

but probably all of:

Antibiotics
BadCogs
BadwaterSlow
BadwaterTurbo
BetterBrainSalts
BetterCogs
BetterExplosives
BetterMedicine
BetterSmelting
BetterTar
BrainSalts
Cure
EvenBetterMedicine
FrostBalm
Glowfluid
LibraryScience
Methane1
Methane2
Nitroglycerin
ResinSynthesis
SurgeryKits
Tar
Tar2

[radiant arch]

easy fix..

[woeful sun]

There may be other bad files, but those are the ones without a comma at the end of the Icon line

[radiant arch]

yeah

i forgot the shell magic to replace them.. can only use grep to find them..

yeah, after those more json problems..

JsonReaderException: After parsing a value an unexpected character was encountered: ". Path 'RecipeSpec.FuelCapacity', line 29, position 1.

[woeful sun]

one (or all) of:

Badpaper
BetterOreSmelting
ComicBooks
NuclearWater
oresmelting
oreTOsteel
RoboLog
RoboRice
RoboSunflower
RockToss
WPBotLimb

[radiant arch]

yeah, found the files 🙂

sorry got distracted

fixing those missing commas helped

can load my save now with these

thank you @woeful sun @tawdry bronze

(fixed version attached if it's wanted)

[radiant arch]

for i in *.json; do ERROR=$(cat $i | json_pp 2>&1 >/dev/null); if [[ $? -ne 0 ]]; then echo "$i with: $ERROR"; fi; done

if anyone uses unix shell for quick testing json files on mass (too tired to adjust for subdirectories; also json_pp not like comments with //, nor trailing comma in lists)

why did you need to make the balloon platform door face outwards...

this is looking great and all, yet.. it's not seamless to upgrade ..

also, if it's quick to answer:
regarding the wonder - at what tile does it measure required water depth??

for me it worked nicely on a wide hole in new game

it not works at all in a minimal hole - it's flodded before it's satisfied

[storm gulch]

Thanks! Got it figured out last night with the help of folks in here so we're all good 🙂

[shell fiber]

thank you !
i'll try to load it up asap

[shell fiber]

Btw which mod version is it based on ? 5.1.7 ?

[tawdry bronze]

Latest mod.io download should be 5.1.9

[shell fiber]

i have to go but i'll upload at least a fix to steam before

i managed to get a launch

my setup was kind of in-between so i had some things to revert

but thanks for fixing this mess 😭

[tawdry bronze]

np

[nova crescent]

@shell fiber Is this a left over?

[shell fiber]

That is how the swim speed fix works but I'll change it eventually

[radiant arch]

you make them hate water so much they speed up??

[sullen cape]

Hmm, my Landscaping menu came back, but it only has dynamites in it, at least it's there, I wanna build my first burried tank!

There are a few redundant well-being needs in my list, Stew is listed twice, uh Rooftop terrace and a few others are present despite the buildings being removed. Hold on it's probably a legacy thing

[sullen cape]

I worked out what it was
It works in Badwater too I noticed 😏
Maybe I should make water tunnels for my beavers to run in instead of tubeways or ziplines

[nova crescent]

It's more groups mod. That places buildings in spearte tabs. Disable that and see.

[sullen cape]

Hmm I will try that later 🙂

What I'm seeing

[radiant arch]

regarding the Broken Expedition Cart:

• the symbol is 💩 - was that intended?
• the "Clean Fur" need is supplied to an area under the cart -> not sure this works as intended? (is it even a positive one?)

i usually forget about showers early on and almost lost a few settlements to beavers being too dirty to work 🙂

[sullen cape]

💩
I'm guessing yes lol

I'd build a river bath soon after starting a game, they are good IMHO

[shell fiber]

load order issue, sometimes more groups jumps at the end of the list, but it should load before the faction

[shell fiber]

i'll try to integrate the faster swimspeed script in my mod, or make it a dependency

except i probably want a good +100% speed, not +50%

[shell fiber]

intended, that makes the two builder beavers get dirty a little bit slower, which can give people enough time to react when they see their beavers start to go on strike because of the lack of baths, the builders will still be able to work a little longer.

[shell fiber]

exactly

[sullen cape]

Ohh thanks Lapan 😊

[stiff flint]

I'm trying to start a new game and I'm crashing as soon as I start, I've reinstalled and I'm 99% sure I've got the newest version on the mod list on Steam

Is there anything I need to load that doesn't trigger a yellow warning sign?.... I think I'm running the minimum list of mods to launch WBO

Steam version of the mod isn't playable right now?.... That would explain my problems

[still frigate]

What does the yellow warning say?

Also, make sure you are NOT using "Pantry".

I've been making maps for the contest, so I haven't actually played the game in a couple of days, but I do beleive that the steam version is the most up to date,

[stiff flint]

I saw the pantry problem, i'll double check to make sure i tried both

[stiff flint]

i must have turned the pantry back on after i reinstalled.... it still crashes but it crashes differently so that counts as progress

now I can get to the start game screen but I can't see the water beavers next to the Folktails and Iron Teeth and it crashes as soon as I start a game with either

[still frigate]

I haven't tried this in a while, but this was my minimum build to make it work. Make sure you have all of these, and preferably nothing more unless there is a new dependency I missed.

Once it works, then add more should you wish. I have about 40 mods I use with WhitePaws.

[stiff flint]

I stripped down to that list (without More Mod Logs and TimberUI) and it's still crashing when I load a save or start a game... and the Whitepaws aren't visable on the select screen

since i had to reinstall I might have to have a colony with 10 happiness to "unlock" them again

[still frigate]

Show me your mod settings (including WhitePaws) such as this:

[still frigate]

1. you are using the wrong version of WhitePaws if you are playing the current version of Timberborn. The one you have is for old-6 version.
2. you have an unresolved yellow warning by them.
   (standby for link to current version...)

[stiff flint]

found it on steam

[still frigate]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3508401248&searchtext=

[stiff flint]

thank you

[still frigate]

Happy to help.

@shell fiber It would make this a lot easier for new players if you go back and edit your description for the U6 version with a link to the U7 version. Especially on Steam.

Also, anything I post if fair game for pinning or putting in a wiki. (¡I suck at making wikis!)

Some of it may help people.

Of course, when I am available, I will continue to help troubleshoot getting WhitePaws running. 🙂

[sullen cape]

lol JC got eaten by a grue 😅

[still frigate]

I wonder what my most common method of death is in peoples' games. /laughs

In my own it was old age. OMFG! Being 54, that sorta stung!

[sullen cape]

Someone posted my Beaver got the Trebuchet death, which is super-duper rare!

[still frigate]

Nice!

[shell fiber]

i made some changes to the description but i would need to refresh the steam upload to fix it properly 😓

[radiant arch]

usually old age - around 120s

[still frigate]

-chuckles-

[still frigate]

That sucks of Steam.

@shell fiber You were in Japan when I did this and may have missed it.

#1070709592176197642 message

WTF discord?! It isn't going to the correct message for me.

#1070709592176197642 message try this one?

[shell fiber]

it points to an excel sheet with the bumber of inhabitants per buildigns for me 🤔

[still frigate]

Ah. It is working for you then!

My own link and it points to something else for me. /laughs

Also, to nit-pick, it is a Google Sheet, not Excel. ( I don't suport MS Office. 😛 )

That sheet is really helpful to balance out residents vs jobs for WhitePaws.

Also... you may not have gotten the joke. I used to have to support MS Office when I did customer support in the late 90s. /laughs

[shell fiber]

i... never felt the need to calculate how many inhabitants i would need 🤔

[still frigate]

When I have over 100 unemployed beavers I tend to get a little more picky on what i build.

[heavy lodge]

Always forgot that only haulers can be bots 🤣 I use the have all beavers unemployed 😅

[still frigate]

Yeah, in a vanilla game! But they eat too much in this one!

And keep getting sick/dirty/hurt. 😛

[heavy lodge]

or, eaten by a grue 🤪

[still frigate]

Zork 1, on a Commodore 64, man.

ancient trivia: Zork (I, II, and III) was originally a single game, but built on a mainframe. They had to split it for the PCs of the day.

My first "Hello World" program was on a display C-64 at a K-Mart.

20 goto 10```

Then I learned how to load Zork I and I was lost. (As were other people wanting to use the display model.)

And.. yes... to this day... I have a functional Commodore 64. I haven't touched it in over 15 years, but I have it for nostalgia sake.

If Lapan had figured out a cheeky way to work in a wumpus, I would have really been floored. Grues aren't as unknown but it is still awesome.

[radiant arch]

why isn't this enabled by default with the mod?

[still frigate]

How did you make it work?!

[radiant arch]

frog statue mod

added the whitepaws jsons

[still frigate]

Yeah. It wont show for me.

[radiant arch]

trying to figure out how to add science cost now

[radiant arch]

give me a little and i'll upload a patch

replace the version-0.7.9 with this in your frog statue mod and it enables it with whitepaws – hope none mind me doing this..

sadly it seems like i can't just change build needs or science cost easily... can't find anything i could easily edit 😦

btw: love the news board 💚

[shell fiber]

what's a wumpus ? the only bell it rings for me is this : http://www.magiccorporation.com/scan_maxi/9th_edition/vo/248.jpg

[sullen cape]

^ Wumpus

Discord Mascot lol

[still frigate]

Referenced in the 80s video game M.U.L.E it is originally from a 70s game called hunt the wumpus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunt_the_Wumpus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.U.L.E.

Again, M.U.L.E. is from my Commodore 64 days.

[wheat apex]

Now that is a cool idea.

[radiant arch]

do they sway with the wind?

[shell fiber]

no, the wheel thingie has fixed coordinates so even if i made the balloon wobble around, the anchor wouldn't follow

[radiant arch]

hmm.. forester does not replant dead pines it seems - at least not after contamination

oh.. now it did.. false alarm!! was just messing with me and skip the routine for 3 cycles ..

must have been a problem with another mod

[nova crescent]

Wow. Nice.

[heavy lodge]

What will be the next step ? Bevears descend on balloons rope ? 🤔

[shell fiber]

nah, balloons are just relays

[heavy lodge]

But, maybe, it can be possible a support tower (a vertical double rope) acting also as a zipline rope ...

[shell fiber]

hmm... well i have to sort of balance it a bit, balloons have 3 connections, a long range, and occypy almost no space on the floor

normal towers also don't use much space but have way less range, also only 2 connections

[heavy lodge]

I know, that's a little bit tricky

[shell fiber]

the model that used to be for the observation deck now acts as your main entrance to the network

with long range and 4 connections

i also want to make a permanent building for the scavengers, which will have its own access to the network too

not entirely sure what design to go for though

[radiant arch]

will the observation deck keep the well-being part?
will there be further access points - beside scavengers and observation decks?

[shell fiber]

well the large farmhouse has its own dedicated add-on

and i've been itching at the idea of a larger, fancyer district center, which could have a direct access to the ziplines

also, i plan to have the ziplines locked behind a blueprint

which will be in the architect

in exchange, the balloon platform no longer requires one

[heavy lodge]

A larger district center with an agora at center ?

[radiant arch]

sounds very well balanced regarding those workers that tended to be further out or have too little range

another point i would be concerned with - with large maps - is district crossings.

but here the far-distance-crossings kinda overlap with ziplines and can already be build closer to the center for medium-sized maps

[shell fiber]

i don't particularily like the agora as a building, but that's actually a good idea 🤔

[heavy lodge]

To serve also as attraction, and beavers to use-it, not only the builders.

[shell fiber]

to be honest i wouldn't be surprised if the next game update were to add a houseoptimize-type script and got rid of districts entirely

[shell fiber]

i think it's doable, just not entirely i can squeeze both the DC functions, the builderhub function, the Zipline function, and the attraction in the same building 🤔
but ditching the builders is possible

[heavy lodge]

Maybe, the extra function, in an add-ons building to be placed into district center ?

[heavy lodge]

After the dev's struggles to add flexible start ? I don't think so ....

[radiant arch]

there also is the major trouble with performance and big path networks and complex needs.. would look like a major overhaul to replace districts

[shell fiber]

well not so long ago we were limited to 70-range districts, now on relatively small maps i think you can clearly do single-district colonies, the main issue being the random attribution of housing and workplaces

but who knows

comming back to the ziplines... i think eventually we would need an exit point that can be placed pretty much anywhere, after all if we want to have a central scavenger hub taking care of the whole map, we need to be able to place an exit next to ruins without trouble

[radiant arch]

that would solve everything, yay 🎉

[shell fiber]

maybe you're right, a balloon with a rope ladder would actually be nice

[heavy lodge]

and, will have ending with farmhouses near storages and farming on entire map ....

[shell fiber]

also the balloon is always refunded so that's good

[radiant arch]

will the tree nursery be a hub too?

that's one with too little range too to keep the beaver busy

[shell fiber]

I was considering it yeah

that's likely

although to be honest, the "issue" with the terminus balloon is that it can pretty much be used to connect anywhere to anywhere

or at least would be, if you didn't have to make a balloon item for that

[radiant arch]

how about making it behave like the crane?

not connect to roads

that would allow all scavenger / farmer / forester whatever, but not function as shortcut for regular workers?

or would that be bad too, as in excluding haulers?

balloons aren't that hard to make tbh - especially with abyss unlocked

[shell fiber]

that's what i think i'll try to do

[shell fiber]

that is precisely what i would want

the point is to give access to a distant building, but not to replace roads entirely

[radiant arch]

awesome!

[shell fiber]

right now i'm trying to get the balloons to actually consume methane

not a lot though

it's more for the sake of realism than anything

[radiant arch]

oh, i like it this way - it's a minor scaling impact and it's setting a limit to how early you can use them

[shell fiber]

hmm... i think i'm off one Z-level on some data but the functionnality seems good

i wonder if i can add some tiny tiny flame in the balloon 🤔

probably should make a better model for the ground anchor

then i'll try to make the terminus balloon

[sullen cape]

Ziplines? I feel spoiled, they make transport much nicer and faster

Oh and I wasn't sure if this bug was fixed, but thanks Lapan, now I don't have to build 1x1 suspension bridges with my ladders

[sullen cape]

Hmm does Quadruple Dynamite only cost 3 sticks of explosives or is that a me thing?

[radiant arch]

isn't it convenient to save on the medium mines?

[shell fiber]

that's the ladder mod doing this.

[sullen cape]

Oh

Uh

Thanks anyway 😂

[shell fiber]

hmmm

not quite what i had in mind

i guess i won't be fusing the observation deck with the balloon then

although i could abuse that display issue 😅

[shell fiber]

i'm not going to let a game tell me what i can and cannot do 😉

ahahah

[shell fiber]

not gonna lie, with all these rope-using buildings, i'm starting to itch about a "rope" ressource to manufacture

but maybe that would be annoying more than anything

and adding new construction materials this late into the mod development would be slightly annoying

but for the sake of argument, how could rope be manufactured 🤔

of course the obvious solution is growing hemp for fiber

that would make one more crop and one more reciepe for the handicrafter

sunflower stocks are quite fibery so that's not unthinkable

except sunflower is always in hot demand for oil already and i don't want to go back so some clunky mess like the lotuses used to be

lol... you could actually flip it on its head, like grow some crop, but if you leave it too long it becomes fribrous, like asparagus or something 😅

[radiant arch]

planting hemp? handicrafter, later assembly line?

would worry about same constraints with high-demand sunflower

[shell fiber]

that would be the most obvious solution yes

[radiant arch]

or just make them from wood?? (=little magic, but the tile-footprint of current lines is huge already)

[shell fiber]

i wonder if i can make some wall-climbing plant like ivy or something 🤔

[radiant arch]

wait.. how about bamboo?? as in skipping the logs and making it produce fibre ?

[spring heath]

I think given the number of tree/bush plants, I don't see one more crop as a huge burden

[spring heath]

ooh I like that

[shell fiber]

would be an option, but they come very late

[heavy lodge]

I wish to be possible to have multiple output for farms, so, for crops that need replanted after harvested, to collect also straws (can be use as ferilizer, making ropes, insulated houses ....)

[shell fiber]

i would prefer something that comes into play early

[spring heath]

could treat sunflowers as lotus are now? gather seeds, dig up fibrous part?

[shell fiber]

ooh, actually i can "cheat" a bit and have the florist grow some potted hemp or whatever

[radiant arch]

would make that one useful..

[shell fiber]

that's actually the most realistic option

but the issue is that your beavers would start by cutting your sunflowers for fiber before letting them grow seeds

[spring heath]

I use fences to manage lotus, cheap but effective

[shell fiber]

also to be honest, i don't intend to make so many things require a lot of rope

it would be mostly for flavor

[spring heath]

plant flowers, build fence blocking farm from some plants, place gatherer on other side of fence

[radiant arch]

if it's never gonna be a demand hemp from florist might be the least impact

[heavy lodge]

Lotus ? use bamboo, at their height, will give a really long rope 🤣

[radiant arch]

would love to see the bamboo too. can't see much reason not to have them early either

[shell fiber]

actually with the implementation of ziplines, trade becomes available from start or almost, so you could just go trade for exotic seeds immediately (while the ironteeth will gladly sell you loose dirt...)

[prisma merlin]

I like giving the florist a purpose, I think him growing it there is interesting

[shell fiber]

but the issue with that, is the balloons also would require rope...

[prisma merlin]

What if the florist required a few exotic seeds to make some magic rope?

I guess that would make rope appear late as well so same problem as bamboo

[shell fiber]

so i think if we want to use giantbamboo as a source of fiber (replacing logs, which would be fine), we'd need the florist to painstakingly make the first lot, then balloon trade etc.

although we could also load some rope on the broken cart

or make rope a tradable item

[spring heath]

tbf that thing does look held together with rope, spit and a pipe dream

in the most affectionate way

[shell fiber]

that's the idea i like best for now

although there is an other possibility...

SHAVING BEAVERS !

muahahahaha ! 😈

[heavy lodge]

Make then a barber house 🤣

[radiant arch]

could use it as fertilizer in the GMO too

[shell fiber]

yeah but realistically i don't see how to actually do that 🤔
there's litterally nothing in the game that generates a good in exchange for a need. (but the opposite exist)

but i just remembered : i have a fern-like plant from before i implemented purple cabbage

fern is fibrous... somewhat

[radiant arch]

brambles are too?

[spring heath]

maybe it's an evolved (naturally or beaver-led) kind of fern that is more fibrous

[shell fiber]

yeah, but they are already set as a cuttable for flower, don't want to change them again

[heavy lodge]

It is possible to have negative consumption ?

[shell fiber]

no, not without scripting

[heavy lodge]

crap 😭

[radiant arch]

so a new fern plant for the farmer to handle?

mangroves aren't replaced with anything yet – using them for the fern might skip on adjusting the more plants mods and still have them pre-set for maps?

[shell fiber]

mmeeeeeeeh

[shell fiber]

you still have rice to grow

[radiant arch]

right.. the limited space..

great rope fibre too, rice haha

[stiff flint]

after i've planted bamboo I usually destroy the forester since i won't need to replant (unless there's an incident).... cutting bamboo for rope would change that

[radiant arch]

just realised i could drain a medium mine using a deep water pump and some platform - only that the deepest tile is literally in the middle of the thing.. (they take forever to drain naturally, yet they are so easy to fill..)

[shell fiber]

i'm really having trouble finding a decent icon for plant fibers 🤔

i think i'll go for some cotton icon

[spring heath]

base it on the cattail root icon? looks kinda reedy

[shell fiber]

which also makes sense with the florist, since cotton is a flower

[spring heath]

or that lol

[heavy lodge]

https://www.flaticon.com/free-icon/flax_1407320

[shell fiber]

that's just a flower 🤔

right now i'm on either of those two

[shell fiber]

hmm... not bad, with some editing it could work

regarding the source of fibers, i think it won't hurt to have the florist be the only way to produce fibers

until we reach giantbamboo that is

[shell fiber]

that will do

kind of have to make it from scratch

[shell fiber]

yeah, i'm much happier with this one

[shell fiber]

Uploading today's mess

But only on mod.io for testing

[shell fiber]

Loaded!
(I didn't make it live yet)

[radiant arch]

just found out it can be downloaded anyway! perfect for some testing 🙂

[radiant arch]

too late today for much testing. it does load. it works for me.
nothing major missing (few texts).

love it!

[radiant arch]

can insta-bridge 40 layers vertical gap 🙂

[astral harbor]

I love how you manage to break it in all the weird ways 😄

[astral harbor]

This icon looks best for this type of fibers feature.

I also do support the idea of making it in Florist, but I'm strongly against idea of doing it in Handicrafter / Assembly Line. Those buildings already feel overcrowded with stuff they make, forcing multiple repetitive buildings just to keep up with different demands.

Another idea I would have is to make rope a common commodity as Planks or Paper. In general idea, ropes could and should be used for building dams for example.

[astral harbor]

Zipline will attach this way only to a few buildings, or is that an addon that can be attached to any building?

[shell fiber]

I still have the custom gristmill model so I was thinking about putting it back as a rope maker, kind of like the paper mill

But the handicrafter should likely have a crappy recipe

[astral harbor]

YES! 😄 I love that idea much more than handicrafters

[astral harbor]

That depends on your idea of how early it should be available

For me the new building could have 3 recipes, crapy, normal, fast

[shell fiber]

I don't think it will require anything special to build, we'll see

[astral harbor]

All depends how much use for it would be finally. I do like the idea of using rope in more than ziplines

[woeful sun]

Could you also weave nenuphars for rope?

[nova crescent]

@shell fiber so no normal zipline station? Only upgrades.

[shell fiber]

i've been adding rope costs to every building for which that makes sense to me

early on you won't need much, the rope dropped by the cart should be enough for building a few bridges etc

then you should be able to produce a bit on your own with minimal effort

but when the demand starts to rise (ziplines, a few robotic buildings) you probably will want to invest in the rope maker

which is quite a contraption 🙂

[midnight escarp]

I can't wait to see what you come up with

[shell fiber]

well it is just a manufactory building, but i tried to make it look like what real industrial ropemaking

[shell fiber]

hmm...i could make a zipline station that is just a zipline station, but that seems a bit bland to me.
and there is the zipline terminal balloon

ah wait no, it doesn't connect roads

and eventually i'll probably make a better DC with an integrated zipline access

[radiant arch]

play-testing it some it pretty much fits all needs right now (and outperformed my expectations of reach and speed)
give it a DC access point and it's perfect

[nova crescent]

Yes. I was thinking why it was there. Balloon stations also will work. But as of now it doesn't connect to roads. That's why I asked the question.

[radiant arch]

it does connect to roads - just for special buildings (like the zipline station + upgrades to large farmhouse or tree nursery)

that's one concern rn: the descriptions to those upgrades should mention what to add them to.

[shell fiber]

well i like to have things slightly restricted and not too conveninent

[nova crescent]

Not those. Ballon zipline station doesn't connect to the road.

[shell fiber]

i added that

[shell fiber]

deliberate

oh, i haven't done the description on this one

[nova crescent]

So which are the stations?
The farmhouse, tree nursery and the forester upgrade one?

So what is the second balloon zipline for?

[radiant arch]

one is relay and one is for scavengers/ farmers/ harvesters etc to expand range

the ballon relay can connect two routes

and serves as attraction

[nova crescent]

Ahh got it.

[radiant arch]

really adds to the mid-game to have those

[nova crescent]

So the zipline terminus balloon can be used as a zipline station? Or is it just to increase the range of the collector it is attached to?

[radiant arch]

balloons not connect to roads

[nova crescent]

Hmm so it can't be used as a zipline station. It can only be used for increasing the range of the collector.

@shell fiber can we have a general station upgrade for other buildings?

[radiant arch]

tbh: you can place a large farmhouse whereever you need access and have them reach any farm using ziplines

they easily cover 100 tiles almost asap

[shell fiber]

three 🙂

[shell fiber]

the terminal balloon has only one connection (until i change my mind about that) so it's not really a relay

but it allows access to the ground

the next 2buildings i ahve to make is a permanent scavenger base

which will have an integrated zipline access

and the DC but htat is lower priority as far as i'm concerned

also, i kind of want to do a skydiving balloon attraction or something 🤔

[nova crescent]

Woo this sounds cool.

[radiant arch]

hmm.. a minor trouble with farmhouse zipline upgrade: it might not build from below.. (requiring platform + bridge; at least when farmhouse is connected from front door only)

[radiant arch]

i assume this is base-game problem, but there can be an uncaught exception with blocked zipline connections while trying to connect some

InvalidOperationException: Can't unblock edge to 354088, it wasn't blocked
  at Timberborn.Navigation.NavMeshSourceNode.UnblockEdge (System.Int32 nodeId, System.Int32 groupId) [0x00024] in <71d2065186fa45cf94bd55d7aad77bff>:0 
  at Timberborn.Navigation.NavMeshSource.UnblockEdge (System.Int32 startNodeId, System.Int32 endNodeId, System.Int32 groupId) [0x0000f] in <71d2065186fa45cf94bd55d7aad77bff>:0 
  at Timberborn.Navigation.NavMeshChange.Apply (Timberborn.Navigation.TerrainNavMeshSource terrainNavMeshSource, Timberborn.Navigation.NavMeshUpdate+Builder navMeshUpdateBuilder) [0x0007d] in <71d2065186fa45cf94bd55d7aad77bff>:0 
  at Timberborn.Navigation.NavMeshUpdater.ProcessInstantChanges (Timberborn.Navigation.NavMeshUpdate+Builder navMeshUpdateBuilder) [0x0001b] in <71d2065186fa45cf94bd55d7aad77bff>:0 
  at Timberborn.Navigation.NavigationUpdateSynchronizer.ProcessInstantChanges () [0x00000] in <71d2065186fa45cf94bd55d7aad77bff>:0 
  at Timberborn.Navigation.NavigationUpdateSynchronizer.UpdateSingleton () [0x00006] in <71d2065186fa45cf94bd55d7aad77bff>:0 
  at Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleService.UpdateSingletons () [0x00010] in <9117b1294fcf4df390fc07f3eef2285e>:0 
  at Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleService.UpdateAll () [0x00008] in <9117b1294fcf4df390fc07f3eef2285e>:0 
  at Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleUnityAdapter.Update () [0x00000] in <9117b1294fcf4df390fc07f3eef2285e>:0 

had this yesterday and again today when a connection i was testing was blocked by objects or solid ground (for positioning from an 'to-be-build' balloon)

can't really pinpoint what actually triggered it, just that it happened randomly within the testing of possible zipline connections

hmm.. darn.. 😭

makes my game quiet hard to play as it happens increasingly often when trying to place a new one it seems

might be related to solid ground between two zipline stations that are otherwise 'within range' 🤔

yeah.. no.. happened too when a ground tile was tunnel-dyna'd 🙃

[shell fiber]

i'm not sure i understand how it's happenning

it happened not while you were placing and connecting a zipline, but after a tunnel piece was completed ?

can you do something similar in vanilla TB ?

[radiant arch]

did intensive testing on vanilla. after vanilla and all mods i use.

it never ever happens no matter what

once i enable whitepaws it can happen

i'm not yet sure it's to do with some "possible collides" during internal route checking for ziplines

or entirely randomly triggered

it mostly happened while i was trying to either place a zipline access or connect one. but other times it also happened when i just watched my beavers do their work

it only happened when there was at least one zipline station (another was in build, but not sure it was needed)

still testing if it has to do with a space constraint below the actual zipline (whitepaws might be more lenient on those)

[radiant arch]

can't figure out what actually causes it 🙂
biggest problem is that the actual check causing it does appear to be triggered at random basically

[stiff flint]

I deleted a terrain block in progress and no materials were returned

i got the message that 400+ dirt would be returned but it's not on the ground

[radiant arch]

here's a save that reliably triggers the problem - just try and explode the dynamite (there's other triggers i believe, but this is easy to do manually)

it might only happen if a balloon is involved. it's not needed for it to be build (or actually placed) it seems. it happens without balloons too, but might be harder to trigger / involve other factors.
(just classic diorama map, minimal whitepaws, few buildings set in dev-mode. that's it)

no idea what's happening or why.
this time there's literally nothing in the way i guess..

[shell fiber]

i'll look into it

in the meantime i finished modeling yet another hellish contraption

[radiant arch]

thank you

what kind of contraption?

[shell fiber]

it's going to be the scavenger's permanent building

hopefully it doesn't crash

(or at least not in an incomprehensible manner)

[shell fiber]

ah, i had forgot to add the enterable spec

[radiant arch]

the farmhouse add-on?

is that the new scavenger?

[shell fiber]

yep

comes with a tower

(which is not an add-on)

3 beds, up to 8 workers, double workspeed, triple carry capacity

watertight, can be build on pit and ladder lodges

and with a funky grinder to shred all the trash metal they will gather

also holds up to 200 scrapmetal

[heavy lodge]

Grinder❓ So, you changed the scrap metal into metal powder ❓ 🤣

[radiant arch]

or softer things, randomly

[shell fiber]

Fixed the animation a little bit

[radiant arch]

nice detail

[shell fiber]

yeah, +100% work speed and +200% carry cap, means they work 6 times faster

[radiant arch]

so basically 1 worker can cover most of the map now till late mid-game?

if the scavenger isn't too expensive this might actually be really helpful with hauling. they tend to work long ways with single scap metal a lot

[shell fiber]

also, because why not :

[shell fiber]

i didn't boost their walk speed because i was worried it might interfere with the speed boost of the zipline

but yeah, you probably won't ever need to build more than one of those

it is a mid-game building though, on some maps you might run out of scraps before you get to build it

it's not horribly expensive but still require one blueprint

[shell fiber]

oh, that might be due to the small crane actually

i see the functionnality was not lost 😅

someone being cheap in stairs

but if i'm correct with that, that's quite a problem

note that balloons can also fix that 🤔

hmm... no removing the crane didn't change anything

[shell fiber]

@ all did anyone else have this ? i don't understand this bug at all

it doesn't even seem related to the ziplines

[radiant arch]

weirdly it only happens for me after some ziplines are present. not when i removed them all it seems.

testing this requires the 5.2.0 version from mod.io - as it's not public only available from "more versions"

[radiant arch]

maybe you are right on that.. when i removed all zipline related buildings it still happened in my game, just randomly a little later

not even sure anymore it was just random it happened while i set up the balloons and was more or less random with the new version from the start??

[shell fiber]

yeah, same for me

it seems pretty clear that it triggers when the terrain map is updated

but that doesn't explain where it comes from

[radiant arch]

not at all, no. or why it never happened before

[shell fiber]

is there any chance that it happened when some tunnel was build ?

[radiant arch]

that sometimes triggers it. but i build like 8 or 9 till it happened just now

and the save i gave you not had any tunnel ever

did the crash happen for you too?

also in the save i randomly could explode all the dynamite before i first placed the balloon. but that might be totally random too 🙃

is there anything that could leave an (invisible/ weird) fragment in that map / routing?

[shell fiber]

it happened on your save

but on my test map for ziplines, i tried to blow up stuff, nothing does anything

[radiant arch]

did your test map run for several days too?

or you tried placing more ziplines later?

[shell fiber]

blowing stuff up near a crane makes no difference

i'll try to run it at 99xspeed

[shell fiber]

i don't think so but based on the crash message i'll see if there is something that could be an issue

ah!

there's something in the relay balloon, just realised that's the only one that was not present on the map

hmm... probably some leftover from testing the system

yep, fixed it, no kaboom now

[shell fiber]

packing it now, then upload

probably can upload on steam too

I increased the number of connections of the scavenger's junkyard to 6 connections

since it's supposed to be somewhat central on the map

also speaking of district centers, i've been thinking about a stackable pit and ladder DC 🤔

[radiant arch]

like not going on top?

some variations might be nice. a huge one, a stackable, the default (rural / small community style) might be fun.

currently missing the versions you made with the pantry, just for the visuals (and the pharmacy - those can't be stored anywhere rn i believe)

[shell fiber]

indeed

but medication was never really meant to be stockpiled

[shell fiber]

i could remake the specific disctrict centers, but just without the pantry function

have fun !

and thank you @radiant arch for your noble sacrifice 😅

[radiant arch]

thank you for going through all this and giving back so many great updates!

[shell fiber]

Not gonna lie, just by testing the functionality I can tell the zip line system is absolutely amazing

I kind of mangled it a little by reducing the distance cost by a factor 80, but still

Maybe that's a bit excessive actually, we'll see

[radiant arch]

hmm.. not to be ungrateful.. yet: it's crashing

InvalidOperationException: Cost good Tool for building ScavengerDen.Whitepaws(Clone) does not exist

mod.io version here - simple misspelling in the prefab it seems ("Tool" for "Tools")

[radiant arch]

hehe: dunno what it was supposed to cost, but replacing the building costs fixes it 🙂

for minor annoyance: the farmhouse zipline add-on still not connects to path (entry one tile behind farmers) and can't be build but from above (ladders+bridge or something)
was this intended?

[shell fiber]

How did your do that ?

[radiant arch]

https://mod.io/g/timberborn/m/moddable-prefab#description

[shell fiber]

Not Really I'll look into it

Oh and of course I uploaded the broken version on Steam

They will teach me to do last minute changes

[nova crescent]

I was thinking how you edited that.

[radiant arch]

still debating the proper costs for the frog statue..

currently set to require 150 science points, 15 logs, 16 treated planks and 3 metal.

but is that enough metal? would they use clay rather?? or lotus for the green colour? 🙃

[nova crescent]

Lotus for green colour. 😂

[radiant arch]

you know, the frog and pond and so^^

[nova crescent]

Yes makes perfect sense.

@shell fiber the latest version from steam is 5.2.0 and mod.io is 5.2.2 ?

[radiant arch]

oh, that version on steam haha

[shell fiber]

Yeah I just rolled back the steam version

And 5.2.1 was only on mod.io for testing

I'll fix and re upload tomorrow morning

[nova crescent]

Mod.io one works?

[radiant arch]

only if you patch the ScavengerDen building cost

[shell fiber]

Sorry 😔