Water Beaver Overhaul

[shell fiber]

and of course i didn't want to rip the building out of existing saves, but since i assume people will start anew with U7

[radiant arch]

personally not really care - they aren't really utilised much and bring little benefit early on

a lamp or something passive would be cool as replacement imho

[stiff flint]

most of the time i build the rooftop terrace it isn't on a rooftop.... i like them on platforms at water level so they end up being a boardwalk cafe

[astral harbor]

I'd be happy if you remove it. I hate that building. Always cumbersome to place it anywhere useful.

I agree that replacing it with something passive would be ideal

[woeful sun]

r

[junior hatch]

???

[old kite]

I feel like rooftop terraces dont work out quite as nicely in water beavers because most of the buildings arent flat tops. Like in normal timberborn you stick them on top of a medium warehouse early on and its all nice. Then later you can put them on houses, etc. With water beavers the medium warehouses come a bit later so the terraces tend to not get used much early on, at least for me.

[woeful sun]

(not an intentional message, my desktop hung, and I was trying to restart it with a shortcut, I ended up rebooting 😦 )

[stiff flint]

agreed.... flat rooftops are valuable building space

[marble panther]

Maybe some other wellbeing building like a pub, which takes chestnut beer to function and provide a social life bonus + the beer itself

[radiant arch]

please not make this have 12 inhabitants haha

[halcyon trellis]

Overindulgence debuff

[shell fiber]

i probably wouldn't go for something like that, but that's mostly because i don't want to lean too much on the "drink = fun" of pop culture, but having something actually require chestnut beer would be fun like a beer bath (instead of a mud bath). but i'm not making any promise.

also to keep in mind is that any wellbeing building would be buildable into every district without too much trouble, and given that simply supplying water to districts was already quite a chore i would maybe prefer to avoid that.

for wellbeing in this faction i wanted to lean more into decoration and possessions rather than time-spending activities (not that i dislike it, it's more or less to differentiate from other factions).

typically i've been wanting to have the beavers have gloves, boots, tools or whatever, but i don't want to introduce new materials like thread, leather, etc so it's complicated.

.
but anyway, for now i'm working on loading all buildings into the game and i'm maybe 80% done, then i'll have to double check all of the internal paths / floorings are correct, which they are definitely not since they reworked that script entirely.

and then there's the power shafts to bash my head against. hopefully it's not too messy of a system.

[still frigate]

I am quite excited for the chance to get to try this when you have it playable again!

[shell fiber]

okay... all the buildings are in... except the old power shafts 😑

[cloud flax]

Against the popular opinion, i actually liked them... I put them atop the terraced nursery (i forgot the name but it makes berries, bramble flowers or lotus recipes and had a nice overhanging garden). Beavers visiting it felt like they are visiting the garden. But I won't cry if you remove it. Tbh, this mod has so many such beautiful building that I feel they can have passive buff themselves like that terraced nursery or even architects lodge, artists lodge, GMO growing lab, ENS. The rooftop terrace I just used in a way that they were visiting these beautiful buildings.

[junior hatch]

It sounds like the game is adamant that you should use the new ones.

[marble panther]

Yeah makes sense to rely less on buildings for wellbeing since it's really a struggle to get a significant percentage of beavers to visit them.

As for the water distribution in districts, in my current playthrough I really haven't had much of an issue with it except maybe the first dry season after I established the district, where I had to rely on barreled water.
Now I have water, lotus flower tea, spicy sodas and sake distributed among districts with no issue

To be fair, after a few cycles I gave the new district independent access to water, so that definitely helps

[shell fiber]

Maybe some sort of garden could be neat indeed 🤔

[cloud flax]

Hanging gardens (Of beaverlawns) 🌚

[shell fiber]

fun fact : when i was a kid i thought the hanging gardens were... well literally gardens build hanging from a cliff or something. like... who the hell would enjoy that ? and how do you even... get there ? seemed actual insanity to me.

and then i grew up 🤣

[cloud flax]

Growing up.... Such a sad thing it is 🥲

But hanging gardens from cliff do sound nice!!! Would have such a nice view

[still frigate]

You were not alone in that belief.

[stiff flint]

that's fair.... even historians can't properly define what the "hanging gardens" were, where they were, who built them, why or even if they actually existed.

but a pinwheel of florist buildings is close to what i first thought of.

[still frigate]

Since experimental broke I reverted to U6 and fired this up. For the past TWO hours I have been paused on day one, just looking through the build menus.

To say that I am impressed is a major understatement.

[shell fiber]

if you feel lost, in the "village" tab you should find the techtree billboard, maybe that can help you figure it out.
it's not up to date though, but the early game hasn't changed a lot in a long time

(different story)

i'm currently poking at the power shafts, and here's the situation :

basically the script that managed the models so that all connected shafts spin correctly is entirely removed, which is not an issue for the shafts that have only two connection, because there is no rotation inversion shenanigans

so that's good

the issue now, is that all shafts with 3 or more connection are kaput

the ones that i could salvage are :

• straight shaft
• turn shaft
• Z upward shaft (the old one)
• straight vertical

i... probably could recover the horizontal-to-downward shaft but honestly its use is so anecdotical that i don't think it's worth polluting the menu with it

but the good thing is that i can just use the new universal to replace the T and X shafts (also works downward too)

and the universal stackable takes care of all of the vertical T variants

which is actually pretty much what i was going for, i think

[still frigate]

Not so much lost, but more amazed at just how different the game is and how much work you have done. I will probably die my first try.

I was so worried about overpopulation that I still only have 12 beavers and it is cycle 2, day 14 with the second drought coming and no dam.

[still frigate]

I love the new universal power shafts.

[shell fiber]

specifically, what this means for early game, is that you will only have access to straight and L shafts, the old Z upward shaft to manage basic elevation changes, and will have to unlock the rest eventually

[shell fiber]

you... probably will, one way or the other 😅

but thanks !

i've been poking at his game for... two years now ? damn that's fast 🤔

[still frigate]

I also love your 4th wall break about the floating white arrow.

[shell fiber]

or.... i can make a crappier version of the horizontal to upward turn (so that it doesn't require a platform) and have the horisontal to downward complete it to make the same as the old Z upward shaft 🤔

[shell fiber]

if you read the flavor description, you'll find a few more things like that 😅
poor, poor mathilda...

[still frigate]

I always do.

I have a lot planned but very little actually built.

[shell fiber]

hmm... yes, it's good to be careful

although each farm has only one worker, so right now you'll have problem harvesting

very early on my go to is two farms and two waterpumps

they can feed themselves and each other no problem, with enough wiggle room to support the forester etc

[still frigate]

In a normal playthrough I do that.

[shell fiber]

are you playing on hard mode ?😅

oh, you mean normal factions ?

[still frigate]

Nope

Yeah, or Emberpelts.

[stone pond]

I personally probably wouldn't even try this mod outside of customized easy mode 😛

[still frigate]

I should have set custom and given myself 100% material refund until I am used to the new offerings.

[woeful sun]

Did lemons and lemonade get upgraded to Update 6?

[heavy lodge]

YA, even working for U7 (still not sure about 0.7.9.0)..

[woeful sun]

but it's a separate mod?

[heavy lodge]

Ya, it's Special Maps Reader mod

[astral harbor]

Yeah this scenario was pretty much exactly what I suggested last time 😄
The only thing for me is if you plan the new universal to hide behind science requirement, as early game the T variat can be built and is actually very important for progression.

I feel you could keep the platform and gear requirement just add like 2 platforms to broken cart, so that early game there is some wiggle room on how to plan power out without giving player too much.

I was also playing now around with nuclear on bad water source. I feel that the power output on Badwater source should be at least partially dependent on the source strength. I'm playing on the same map as JC and I strongly feel that the 3000 power is underwhelming on those sources compared to what I can achieve with waterwheels. I do think that Nuclear should be a big change leap vs waterwheels especially having cost in mind.

Another thing is that if I plug every source with Nuclear I get screwed by not having access to Bad Water anymore. Maybe modify it to allow some outlet or add module to underground mine which allows to gather badwater the same way it's being done with Methane

[still frigate]

Is the nuclear power unit the only thing in this one that seals badwater?

[astral harbor]

So far yes 🙂

Actually one more thing I'm misssing that would be great to streamline lategame is to have Assembly Line be able to produce Water barrels.

[still frigate]

I am also guessing no sluice or equivalent?

[astral harbor]

Nope. Only floodgate which requires huge effort to get and build

[still frigate]

Well, I guess only one thing I don't like so far isn't too bad. 😛

I love my sluices.

[marble panther]

Are you that reliant on them?

Not sure I feel the same about the nuclear, I'm currently only turning on a single weak reactor for short droughts and 2 for longer ones and I'm doing just fine (with 3 large gravity batteries)

I feel the large nuclear reactor is overpowered for my current needs, I don't need the hassle to setup the supply line for it

And I've basically no need for more energy, I've built all the clockwork hydroponics I need and I'm working on the wonder

I don't know what awaits me after it's finished building though

[astral harbor]

Depends on the size of colonies. I have about 700 beavers and still want to grow it. But either way on nuclears it's just a principle. Single large water wheel produces 1500 power and I can have multiple of them, so the 3000 and nuclear requirement feels utterly weak compared to that.

Large nuclear seems ok trade for a hassle it requires (still don't know what I'll do with the water tho 😄

[astral harbor]

Hauling water puts a big strain on hauliers. Bottleing it is really efficient way of moving it around the map, I have great success with it but keeping up with production is a royal pain.

I'd also like to see Balons with option to have a worker there, I consistently keep running into a problem of hauliers ignoring them despite being proritized. I'm at a point where I cansider separate district just for baloons because of that

[marble panther]

Yeah must be the colony size. I'm currently stable at 420 beavers and 80 bots

Don't have the need to grow any further, and I'm already getting 15 fps

I don't have issues with water or any other liquid distribution though

[astral harbor]

Yeah I saw it's the issue for most ppl. With my colony so far I'm able to play on x30 with stable 25-30 fps

[marble panther]

Not even across districts

[astral harbor]

That's a factor of colony size

Up till like 350-400 I had no issues

[marble panther]

I'm m constantly on 2x speed, don't really go higher or it just halts to a grind

[marble panther]

Yeah I had the same issue earlier, no longer now. So what does the beaver working in the tower do exactly?

[astral harbor]

no clue xD

[marble panther]

beaver slacking off, I'll low prioritize it then

[shell fiber]

Good point actually, remind me again if I forget 🤔

[astral harbor]

Will do 😄

[shell fiber]

Sluices are too powerful I think, not sure I'll ever add them 😅

[astral harbor]

Honestly it's just a different flavour of flood gate if you have the mod that allows to automate them with stream gauge.

[shell fiber]

Yes, that's difficult to balance, on the one hand the point of the small nuclear reactor is mostly to cap beer water sources, but at the same time having it just cap and not produce power of stupid. But it's also difficult to balance because any water source can produce enormous amounts of power if you put enough water wheels behind. And I still want the large power plant to produce much more, but not necessarily a near infinite amount either 🤔

[shell fiber]

Yes but, it can also automatically control water levels, is stackable etc.

[astral harbor]

The thing is that in my case you would say it compares to 2 large water wheels which is definitely not fair.

Also even if we put this aside, I still cannot cap all Bad Water sources as then Im screwed.

We don't have alternative way for Bad Water

[astral harbor]

I mean WB don't need sluice with all the changes to water here, irigation and barrelled water make it so that we can just allow flow of anything anywhere and just be fine 😄

Concerning the large nuclear I would be happy for it to have 2 recipes for power if that's doable. Cheap and expensive one 😄 By the time I manage to build one, the 25k power may not be enough

Also how much work would it be for buildings like GMO growing lab to use barreled watter? Those are heavy users (among few others) that occupy haulers for 90% of time.

Yes I know it can be solved by splitting into districts but I hate this mechanic with all my heart 😄

[shell fiber]

It's just a hauler, although...I could try to rethink that system

[marble panther]

Agreed, a second recipe half way between the small and large reactors, maybe using less of the purified fuel

[astral harbor]

Just make him exclusive for the ballon hauling 😄

[astral harbor]

I was going other way, a recipe that uses mooooooore 😄

[marble panther]

Ah ok, I didn't realize that job is a hauler, I thought it was related to the balloon

[astral harbor]

@shell fiber concerning small nuclear if there was a byproduct of harvesting badwater that would be a very worthwile building then.

[marble panther]

It would just make sense to have the job in the balloon itself

[shell fiber]

Sadly power generators in this game don't allow for that 🤔

[marble panther]

I may be able to look into that in the future. I'll be out of a job next week and have some free time

I've written a couple of mods, so I can check if it's possible to change

[marble panther]

I disagree, it's much more powerful. It allows to have arbitrarily high water reservoirs. With WB you're only ever limited to 2 high

[shell fiber]

It's been a point of misunderstanding for a long time, a possible fix would be to fuse the balloon with the landing pad, but then we lose the flexibility of just changing the balloon when you want sorting else

[astral harbor]

But WB is not about building those type of reservoirs, that's the point/

[marble panther]

I meant purified fuel, but less than the large reactor, and generates less power, something in between the small and large

[astral harbor]

Can you just make baloon landing pad not occupied? and signe the job to baloon itself?

[marble panther]

I agree, so this is why the sluice should not be a thing

[shell fiber]

That's possible I think, and I probably should do that

[astral harbor]

That would be single best change to ballons

[marble panther]

Yes that's what I was thinking too, you already have the beaver model in the balloon

[astral harbor]

I like the trading systems but it's as buggy as old fermentation barrels

[shell fiber]

I'll have to go to sleep (work starts early) but I'll think about it.

[astral harbor]

Back to this thought. I would be happy to take the tradoff of removing the flow of badwater off the map entirely by using nuclear reactors, but being then locked out of getting badwater whatsoever makes it not viable. Therfore if a byproduct of this reactor would be at least the same amout of Bad Water as mechinized bad water extractor.

[astral harbor]

Sure get a nice sleep 🙂 Don't loose it over a mod. I'm just dropping over my thoughts on pushing the limits of the mod 😄

[shell fiber]

About the power scaling of the nuclear reactor, right now the best option to make things feel right (that I can see) would be to rescale the power consumption of many buildings, so that late late game that is the only viable solution 🤔

[shell fiber]

Input is always welcome 😊

GN!

[astral harbor]

It is already scaled well, once you get into several foundries, drills etc. you quickly go though thousands of power at once. Not to mention that even with mechinized water extractors it takes huge amout of them to support those massive colonies, so that also consumes stupid amounts of water.

[marble panther]

That is somewhat part of the challenge though, you have to choose which to cap and which to not cap. Although it is limited by the map

[astral harbor]

Challange would be to get rid of bad water, flush normal sources off the map and "live" only on the Nuclear Water 😄

[marble panther]

Yeah maybe, but I personally don't mind the limitation

[astral harbor]

I mean we get to bypass all limitations except bad water production, so I still think of it more like a design oversight rather than a challange.

Naturall way of technological progression would be to have somehthing better than harvesting it from a puddle 😄

[marble panther]

I wouldn't put anything past these beavers, I mean they store nuclear fuel in crappy warehouses

[stiff flint]

the reactor can power all 16 automated water pumps, i had 4 pumps paused because i only needed 12 of the 16 to slurp up all of the reactor's water output (running 13+ caused the water level to fluctuate and the out of water notice would flicker)

With that set up i could store 20k water in 24 hours

If somebody wants to say the reactors are over powered i agree....

[astral harbor]

100 cycles gone and I'm far from being done.

[astral harbor]

The large ones are overpowered that's true. 😄 Just sealing the outflows is a royal paing. It should only have 1 direction of spill not 3

[still frigate]

Do you play with badtides left on?

[shell fiber]

we wouldn't want things to be too easy wouldn't we ?😉

actually it's already easier than i wanted

my idea was that people would have to build a whole ring of aqueduct one level lower than the top platform, but then i introduced the deadend aqueduct piece that allows to just seal off the sides you don't want.

Well the endgame nuclear reactor is intended as the solution to all water problems. Also because it never runs dry 😊

generally for every "issue"the game throws at you, I want to have an final answer that solves it permanently. Like the floodgates (with the floodgates trigger mod) that solves the issue of bad tides entirely, the washing machine that allows you to completely disregard beaver contamination, the clinic that should just cure everything else etc.
The clockwork farms should be able to provide near unlimited food and the nuclear reactor should solve water entirely.

[shell fiber]

yes, but right now is it more like "your power consumtion frequently requires more powerwheels" or is it more like "i'm never going to be able to run all of this" ?

i think it would be more challenging if power consumption quickly got out of hand and even spamming large water wheels would eventually not cut it. at which point nuclear becomes really more interesting

do you have screenshots of your town ? like how many of what type of power consuming buildings, and how many water wheels producting how much ?

[marble panther]

Yes that would be nice, in fact I kind of expected it, and was a little underwhelmed when I realized I actually had no need for the large reactor

[astral harbor]

About washing machine, I never use it. And there is good reasons for it.

1. Prisons are just too easy and too good.
2. Deluxe Stew which heals contamination.

No idea if that is possible, but towards late game Prisons should become slower and Deluxe Stew shouldn't heal contamination.
I know that Deluxe Stew was supposed to be the late late late game meal, but it is possible to get it relatively quickly if you plan well enough and by that point washing machine is worthless.

[radiant arch]

i always go for Deluxe Stew too, as anything else is a pain of ill, contaminated beavers not ready to work

[astral harbor]

Yeah, with tha rate of injuries game is unplayable >200 beavers without Deluxe Stew.
The thing is that it's not a rant against Deluxe Stew, rather agains the injury rate being so high that nothing else is able to keep up with the healing process.

[radiant arch]

that and the bother to have haulers and resources occupied for medical beds and such!
easy to skip on all this and have some extra boost to happiness

[astral harbor]

Concerning nuclear, scenario on which your are talking about is perfectly fine and I can see this scaling working late game, but then transition mid to late game becomes a pain as there are limited amount of power generation even if you are god of water wheels and getting the Gold Requirement for Nuclear is very very very very time consuming. In my humble opinion the difficulty should lay in balancing act not the "wait long enough" act.

[astral harbor]

I mean it would be worth while if Medical beds were 3x more efficient. Then it would make sense to delay the Deluxe Stew

[astral harbor]

Also to get to the point where Nuclear would be so over the top it would actually have to be over the top. My network required about 20k power before I managed to build reactor. The hassle factor to get the extra 25k (yeah honestly I had no other source to get it, but still) was hilariously big. On the other hand with 800 beavers everything seems to be "too easy" as I have plenty of resources to spend.

[astral harbor]

Sure I can do it later 🙂 The thing is that it's far from being optimized to the maximum.

[marble panther]

I did the same, only built the washing machine late game because I had nothing else to do while waiting for science or the ems to finish researching whatever

Also didn't know the deluxe stew fights contamination, that's good to know

[astral harbor]

@shell fiber Overall, while we are also on the topic of end game solving problems once and for all. Bad Water harvesting doesn't have solution (I might have said that yesterday already 😄 )
Also I wanted to ask about GMO Growing Labs. While fast and great for brambles, berries, the Shrooms reciepe is a royal pain while also being quite hmmm inefficient. You can kickstart all other reciepes from scratch no problem, but for muschrooms you need 12 of them to create juice to create 75 of them in GMO lab. That seems unneccessary at best.

[radiant arch]

i find this balance fine, with the mushroom juice, as you need it otherwise and would have overproduction on it, wouldn't you?
thought i agree GMO is a little slow on mushrooms maybe

[astral harbor]

Speed is fine, it's just not aligned with other reciepes in it. I get the idea that you need shrooms to produce shrooms, but that means that I always need to keep one or two othe shrooms buildings "just in case", especially that receipe requires dirt which is very unreliable with drills and saw dust which also swings by a lot, so I wouldn't call it the end game solution.

@radiant arch how were your experience with bamboo? For me it seems that no matter how big the farm is, it's never enough xD At least at my colony size

[shell fiber]

interesting... yeah maybe it shouldn't heal that

[astral harbor]

@shell fiber one more thing. Is there something funky with the reactor model or it's water generation? Before i buitl it I was stable at 20-30 fps, after I finished it with all the aqueducts it dropped to like 3-10 FPS. The only other thing I changed alongside of it was expansion of Bamboo farm

[shell fiber]

oh, really ? it used to be fairly...forgettable before. maybe i should buff the med beds then

[astral harbor]

With 200 beavers I always have at least 10-25% beavers injured ...

Also some injuries come up quicker then it is humanly possible to get the tech for medical beds

The fun part is that with 800 beavers and being full on with Deluxe Stew and Med centers I still constatly hoover 4-7% of injured beavers, despite having full stock of healing items

[shell fiber]

deliberate

[astral harbor]

I agree with something being hard, but it then comes to the point where colony has 60 beavers of which 25 are injured and you have no way of progressing even to the healing tech

I know early game is "short", but still it's very punishing for unexperienced players

[shell fiber]

i think i'll probably kill off the mushroomjuice entirely, it originally was meant as an emergency water source but there is other options now

[astral harbor]

I'm happy to hear that.

Or even better

Mushrom Stew based on the Juice?

Insted of raw Mushrooms

Currently lots of meals "compete" for raw mushrooms

I was sure that in U5 I could've built something on top of a large liquid tank (the buried one) and in U6 I can't place anything. Has that changed, or do I remember it incorrectly?

@shell fiber Also the late game ballon (don't remember the name, helium one) should be nerfed big time. It does feel like equvalent of 20 ballon pads or even more. With 2 of them I managed to get the full stock of all the items they bring in permanently, with 800 beavers consuming those. So that's 100% OP.

One note on it. Placing it took me like half an hour. It's really unclear about the collision and that it doesn't need baloon pad to be placed on.

[still frigate]

Okay, I'm confused. We get one anvil from breaking the cart. How do we get a second one to build the factory, which can make them?

Is it guaranteed that breaking down the primitive ironworks will give you your anvil back?

[astral harbor]

Exactly. When you break primitive ironworks it gives you anvil back 🙂 Just make sure you have all materials ready for Factory before you do so. Also you must have glorious storage set for anvil to make it work.

[still frigate]

Okay. Because I know breaking isn't ever 100% by default.

[astral harbor]

When there is only 1 of something used to build anything it always gives it back 🙂 Rounding up.

[shell fiber]

as far as i know it always rounds up the amount of things you get. even if you had set salvage to 10% you would still get one anvil back

[still frigate]

Nice! I did not know that.

[shell fiber]

i'll try to look into the early game injury sources, but most of the injuries are very minor, like heals naturally in a couple of days

[astral harbor]

May be, but the rate must be too high. In this very playthrough I was at a point where like 40-50% of colony was injured in one way or the other. Or maybe it's glitching becuase I play on x30 🤔

[stiff flint]

the lower your total population the worse the injuries are.... i think it's because after a worker is injured they stop working and are a replaced with a healthy beaver waiting for their turn to be injured.... it balances out better when you have unemployed beavers to fill in the jobs while the injuries are healed

[marble panther]

Agreed, it's the only recipe I had to build 2 gmo labs for, the others are producing enough with just 1 lab

[marble panther]

When you click the delete button, it shows you what you'll get back in the confirmation popup

[still frigate]

A Zork reference, eh?

[radiant arch]

bamboo is tricky, but end-game need is somewhat low too, so works for me now. (production used to be far worse before)

[radiant arch]

might be glitching. or you have too few beds / bad supply chains. usually numbers for me are more around 5-7% at this stage too (without Deluxe stew).

[marble panther]

I did it! Strategically placed in the middle of town to achieve maximum beaver happiness upon launch!

Well played @shell fiber

I love this settlement. This has been by far the best playthrough of this game I've had so far

Wrong image

Ah no that's correct, for some reason I'm seeing the preview of the same screenshot as above

[prisma merlin]

I softlocked myself from getting rid of all of my berries and the rest of them on the map getting destroyed by badwater before I could get to making tree nurseries 😭

Nvm found the florist, I'm all good

[still frigate]

Okay, I had a blast with this. I played it regulalrly, then played aorund with it in DEV mode. Some things take a painfully long time to happen, but otherwise, I love it. I especially love the aesthedics in the assets.

I very much look forward to playing again when it is upgraded to U7!!! 🙂

Also, in case you are not aware, "Pantry" is broken in U7_experemental. Uncertain about released U7.

[abstract vector]

Yeah I don't think deluxe stew needs to cleanse contamination

[astral harbor]

So I see pretty much everyone agrees on that

😄

[prisma merlin]

Also broken to date in main branch U7

[astral harbor]

It's simply too powerfull

[abstract vector]

It's a bit of a weird rule, but you're supposed to spoiler anything talking about ||dev|| mode

[still frigate]

Okay.

[astral harbor]

Is there anything still plugs into the backside of the deep mine?

In the place where power goes

[shell fiber]

No, there was but right now is removed

[wise hollow]

Ok, I need help. How do I get this mod to work? I get it needs v6, so I get to the "old-0.6" version of Timberborn from steam. When I downloaded the mods from Steam Workshop & dependencies (and just dependencies) it loads but I can't use water beavers without getting to lvl 1 in folktails - but trying to load folktails it fails. So, I cleaned up the install and downloaded older versions of all the dependancies from mod.io - but which versions? I get ones near the latest water beaver release date, but now those mods wont load.

Is there somewhere I can just get the mod-pack as one?

[shell fiber]

I'm not sure how to deal with steam at the moment because it doesn't let choose mod versions, you're probably better off downloading mods from mod.io

[heavy lodge]

You can use versioning system, and, make internet providers happy for traffic 🤣

[wise hollow]

Should I be using the latest version of all the dependancies?

[shell fiber]

      "Id": "Lapantouflemagic.1x1x2Storage",
      "MinimumVersion": "2.3.5"
    },
    {
      "Id": "Lapantouflemagic.Logstairs",
      "MinimumVersion": "2.1.1"
    },
    {
      "Id": "Lapantouflemagic.TexturePack",
      "MinimumVersion": "1.0.4"
    },
    {
      "Id": "Harmony",
      "MinimumVersion": "2.3.3"
    },
    {
      "Id": "TimberApi",
      "MinimumVersion": "0.7.7.0"
    },
    {
      "Id": "KnatteAnka.MoreGroups",
      "MinimumVersion": "2.0.8"
    },
    {
      "Id": "eMka.ModSettings",
      "MinimumVersion": "0.6.8.0"
    },
    {
      "Id": "Timberborn.IgorZ.TimberCommons",
      "MinimumVersion": "1.10.1"
    }, 
    {
      "Id": "ToolFinder",
      "MinimumVersion": "0.0.3"
    },
    {
      "Id": "KnatteAnka.Staircase",
      "MinimumVersion": "2.2.0"
    },
    {
      "Id": "Tobbert.Ladder",
      "MinimumVersion": "2.1.2"
    },
    {
      "Id": "Battery.Pantry",
      "MinimumVersion": "0.0.2.1"
    },```

sorry for the delay

i can't tell which is the last U6 version for those mods, but in mod.io you can generally see notes with each version, if you see one saying that it's the first version for U7 you probably can safely pick the one immediately prior

or if you don't know, just go for the version indicated here

[wise hollow]

Thanks mate, I'll clean out my install and try again with that list. Appreciate the help!

[marble panther]

just an FYI, seems like in its latest update (on the steam workshop) TimberCommons dropped support for 0.6, you'll need to download an earlier version from mod.io

[shell fiber]

sorry folks, i haven't managed to find a lot of time this week for modding (and updating you)

i'm currently working on the irrigation towers, which i think may be the last complicated part to fix

after that i have all the internal paths to rework

[still frigate]

Exciting news!

[shell fiber]

whelp... unity suddenly broke, i have to re-extract the script, update some dependencies, no idea why.
this software is sometimes really incomprehensible...

[astral harbor]

As a dev I was always wondering is the stories about Unity were true. I guess they were 😄

[shell fiber]

From my short experience every version is whacked in a different way. This one seems to have memory leaks or whenever it's called, each time you build your mod it seems to take a little longer, sometimes I just close it and restart in the hope that resets something. But that might be all in my head for all I know

[shell fiber]

okay i'm back online

irrigation towers work

[shell fiber]

that is what i feared... beavers walking through walls again...

i know the fix, it's just boring to do

[shell fiber]

@woeful sun i don't seem to get the tool finder to work 🤔
it should be ctrl-F right ?

for everyone else : i think i have a playable version but i didn't test it much yet, i'll upload it only to mod.io for now because uploading it to steam might cause massive chaos and i won't be able to put out the fires quickly.

soo... at your own risks 😅

(i didn't fix the beavers walking though walls yet)

oof... connection is slow on the upload side...

Well great the computer blue screened just after finishing the upload.

Hopefully it actually finished it

[still frigate]

Gonna make me have to get over my refusal to use mod.io for anything, eh? 😛

[shell fiber]

Of course don't forget to report bugs etc 👍

[still frigate]

I find myself confused by the installation instructions. It mentions BepInEx which all over the site people are saying isn't needed since update 5 and and to not install it. I don't have it.

I normally avoid mod.io like the plague, so if it's not done through the steam workshop I'm not up to speed on the other installs. So I'm learning as I go.

Never mind, I think I found what to use instead.

[shell fiber]

It will be on mod.io soon, don't worry, you don't have to force yourself to fight the modding tools if you don't want to 😅

[still frigate]

I got it installed and I'm running it

[still frigate]

bug: GiantSequoia

I had just selected the clear crops button.

InvalidOperationException: No or to many remove yield strategy component or spec for resource group "GiantSequoia" in prefab: GiantSequoia(Clone)

IRemoveYieldStrategy components: 

UncuttableRemoveYieldStrategy; Id: Uncuttable; Compatible groups: Farmhouse, AquaticFarmhouse, Gatherable, Tappable
TreeRemoveYieldStrategy; Id: Cuttable; Compatible groups: Cuttable```

**EDIT: **this time the crash hit during mouseover of trees to plant.

**EDIT 2:** Can be intentionally triggered with mouseover of trees to plant.

**EDIT 3:** The crash can also "just happen"

"F" (flip door) does not work on the farmhouse.

[woeful sun]

yep, Ctrl+F or /

hmmm, so it opens the dialog for me, but then doesn't refresh the tools at the bottom

(you can force trigger a refresh of the bottom bar ||by toggling devmode||)

it's supposed to do it automatically though

actually it depends on which version you're using,

I didn't have the latest (v0.0.8) installed on my laptop, let me upgrade and try again

Latest seems to work okay for me

[still frigate]

major bug: the town center wont connect

Once built it becomes its own district but wont connect to any road.

[shell fiber]

That's normal, those don't flip

[shell fiber]

Oh

[shell fiber]

I'll look into it

[still frigate]

I had to stop testing because of that one.

[shell fiber]

No worries 👍

[shell fiber]

also fixed that, was just missing a tiny file

[shell fiber]

hmm... the power shafts icons are bad

[marble panther]

Pretty sure that's by design, because the farmhouse supports upgrades

[shell fiber]

uploading a fix for the problem @still frigate raised 🙂

i also corrected the dependencies version for 1x1x2 storage, logstairs and texture pack

[still frigate]

deleted 5 from drive
installed 5.0.1
resuming testing...
Previous bugs confirmed fixed.
New bug found...

[still frigate]

bug: pit and ladder lodge with side door (builders or haulers) does not connect to road.

Same as it was with the district center.

[still frigate]

map compatibility report: Hollows - playable

NOTE: There are two metal sources that can be reach (with difficulty) using starting technologies.

[shell fiber]

hmm... new path definition system makes things comoplicated...

[still frigate]

Sorry about the extra work.

[shell fiber]

that's not your fault 😅

[shell fiber]

mod updated !

[still frigate]

YAY!!!

[still frigate]

deleted & reinstalled
resuming testing

[still frigate]

bug: river bath is flooded

Is regular housing supposed to still be stackable?

[shell fiber]

yes... what do you mean ?

[shell fiber]

okay i'll look into that

but time for bed now tbh

[still frigate]

I though Whitepaws housing had vertical passthrough like Emberpaws housing. But I could be mistaken.

Hrm... I guess if it did you wouldn't need the pieces with ladders in the center. Never mind, almost certainly my mistake.

[shell fiber]

Oh no you have to connect the door normally

Only the pit and ladder and I few other connect by stacking

[still frigate]

bug: stranded on log stairs

Merely annoying in a regular game, it is a critical problem in a Whitepaws early game.

NOTE: The mod "unstuckify" does appear to work and allows play to continue.

[still frigate]

bug: rudimentary sawmill not connecting to district.

bug: crappy waterwheel flooded

[urban wind]

Does that mean the mod will work with update 7 now? 🙂

[urban wind]

Alright, it's working! Just played my first hour... what a GREAT mod!!

[shell fiber]

whelp, sorry guys, were's back at pit and ladder lodges not being infinitely self-stackable 😣

unless i figure out something else

[still frigate]

@brave ivy is having the same problem with Leafcoats. I just posted this tought on it: #1377606620342648832 message

[shell fiber]

oh, no, he went and build that monstrosity 😅

green beaver with grass instead of fur

[brave ivy]

I did

[shell fiber]

huhuhu 😈

[arctic olive]

I cannot remember the day I was a child

[shell fiber]

as wellbeing increases, kits take more and more time to become adults, instead of growing up faster

[arctic olive]

Well isn't it the same as humans

[junior hatch]

Well then, time to establish a separate district for raising kits with minimum wellbeing.

[shell fiber]

(@arctic olive) exacly 😉

[arctic olive]

Holy crap, I would be dead pretty much by now. Meanwhile still confused about everything.

[shell fiber]

same for me

okay, time to go grab some food

from the burger joint litterally downstairs

[brave ivy]

I got it working!

1,1,1 is my ladder tile.

Block Object Accesses Spec basically says "You can build from inside the building here" and Tube Accessible Path Modifier lets them build directly upwards.

oh, @shell fiber

[still frigate]

Very nice!

[brave ivy]

maybe I spoke too soon.

[shell fiber]

thanks ! i'll try !

[brave ivy]

it let me build the small one on top of the district center that it wasn't doing before

oh, I had block object access spec on my houses twice with different values, that might be why it didn't work for the houses

[brave ivy]

so, yeah, this works for me.

[shell fiber]

i'll try tube accessible path modifier

[brave ivy]

You'll probably need both scripts.

When I just had the tube accessible path modifier, it didn't work.

[shell fiber]

oh okay

[shell fiber]

still nope for me

but it's okay

[shell fiber]

uploading new version now

[still frigate]

changing gears and will resume testing.

Some questions I have had:

How do you feed your growing population? I mean, what is the more efficient foodstuffs to aim for (at early tier)? I've currently been relying on cabbage, and that's not really cutting it.

Also, are there any tricks to get the population to fill out better? I keep adding more housing but end up with a lot of empty housing. I know eventually they will breed and fill it up, but that doesn't seem to happen fast enough once you're over a population of 100. I often have more jobs than I have workers for.

FYI - stranged on log stairs continues to happen.

[shell fiber]

oh, that's because i didn't update this mod yet 😅

letmesee if i can do that real quick

alright, done

[shell fiber]

one way to improve your food production is to use the cooking recipes, cooked foods not only give wellbeing (while raw ingredients mostly don't) and also produce more food that their ingredients

[still frigate]

steam and mod.io both?

[shell fiber]

yep

[shell fiber]

but generally just having more farms and more farmland is good enough

also mushroom growers take little space and workforce and generate quite a lot of food

[still frigate]

If one has the sawdust to keep them stocked.

[shell fiber]

but specifically i think the best crop is pumpkins

i use the slow reciepe mostly, you should always have plenty of logs and water for your normal operations anyway 😉

[still frigate]

Don't think I'v ever unlocked them when playing on the previous version.

[shell fiber]

depends on your playstyle, i tried to make the mod have choice in what you will go for first, some players might try to go for the factory first, some might try to go for the large farmhouse, some might try to unlock the floodgate dam, it depends

also at some point you can make clockwork farms, which produce 3 times what the equivalent farming area would

oh right, i have to nerf the deluxe stew 🤔

anyway, time to go to bed

have fun 🙂

[still frigate]

Be well. I have upgraded and shall resume testing.

[still frigate]

River bath is still flooded. @shell fiber

[still frigate]

question: underwater buildings

Can you please tell me what building should be waterproof? Some are flooded that I don't think were in the previous version. Alas, I am not certain.

bug: passthrough lodge not connecting to district.

[still frigate]

bug: triple watertight lodge (upper level door) is not connecting to a district. The other one works.

[wheat apex]

What is needed to have Lemon trees, Lemonade Stand, and Lemonade working in a non-Whitepaws game. Back in U6, I used to have them in an Emberpelts game with the Whitepaws mod not enabled; just the More Plants Reader and Texture Pack enabled.

I have those two enabled in a U7 game and while I can plant the trees and harvest the lemons, the lemonade stand is not available in the game.

Loading my previous U6 game in the current U7 environment, the lemonade stand has disappeared from where it was located and the storage tanks while visually empty still have lemonade selected and say they are full.

[still frigate]

bug: shower pathing on roof.

the one to be built shows a district connection, but once it finishes it says there is no district connection.

I have only hit this building on top of another building.

[still frigate]

@shell fiber Because of MAJOR spoilers, I am sending my next report in DM. My apologies for not asking ahead of time.

[sullen cape]

Wait another new faction
Crazy that's hard work

[sullen cape]

Lapan I could meme this with another kit settlement with low well-being auto-resettling to all my other settlements lol

[shell fiber]

updating !

i had to rewrite the flooding rules for all buildings 😑

basically the game used to look at the voxel behind the door by default, now it looks at in front of the door for some reason.
but there is a script to overwrite this, mostly used for building that have no doors, but it works nevertheless.

it's up 🙂

[shell fiber]

oh, whoa, this cavities map is seriously cool !

[heavy lodge]

don't ever think, White Paws will remain at the bottom 🤣

[still frigate]

Is this a steam map or somehwere else?

[shell fiber]

i think i'm playing the same map

as this

[still frigate]

Question: shouldn't "elevator to the abyss" also be protected since the full end-game ||Abyssal Nuclear Reactor|| is constantly flooding around it with water? Or is it flooded for me simply because I still have water in the middle (see iamge) from when my test map was flooded 2+ tiles deep?

By the by, once I got water levels down to something "normal" this is the only piece still showing flooded from that test I sent you.

Also, the items I noted with no connection to the district seem to ahve all been fixed. YAY!!!

[still frigate]

Hollows. It is the game's newest official map.

Did you find the path to metal? I almost gave up on using that map for WhitePaws but then finally found it.

[radiant arch]

it was normal before for the abyss to stay flooded till water evaporates naturally

[still frigate]

That would totally make sense. It just didn't happen in my special test when I went back to the old version 0.6.

possible bug: water flowing when building is paused

Even with all three components paused for multiple in-game days, water keeps spewing out of this. Is that working as desired?

bug: the reactor no longer produces power even when fueled and manned.

EDIT: this may be because of errors noted below.

bug: "vertical power shaft" issue.

It animates but does not show power supply/demand when placed on top of a "universal power shaft"

Also, the power shafts do not connect to the power points on the reactor.

All 3 bugs are most likely related.

Also, at this time, I am returning to my "normal" WhitePaws game to contunue testing.

[brave ivy]

Still very early stages right now.

[still frigate]

bug: watertight liquid storage building showing as flooded.

It eventually cleared up. maybe it got water on top as it was building???

[radiant arch]

might have gotten water in the center stacking up

[still frigate]

My best guess too.

[shell fiber]

yeah, now it doens't like having water in the center

also, i just noticed the woodburner and primitive smelter don't connect

[still frigate]

Makes sense. Just makes initial building a bit slow when any water inside has to evaporate away. But that just adds to the "charm" of it all. 😛

[shell fiber]

that is unfortunately normal

i have yet to read all of your posts, sorry 😅

[still frigate]

No worries. I sorta go crazy when I am playtesting.

[shell fiber]

everything abyss related should be flooded as long as there's water in the abyss

[still frigate]

I try to think of anything possible that needs tried. Currently attempting a tower of building to get above my farms and redirect some badwater that is poisoning the ground below.

But it failed with the "too far from district" error.

I know you were working on that one.

I haven't tried yet with single-height buildings. I wanted needed the water storage. /laughs

suggestion: add back 3-way power pieces

Since the universal power piece is science-walled, you might want to add the 3-way horizontal and vertical pieces back. It is currently impossible to power more than 1 building from the same source pre-science.

[radiant arch]

it's expensive, but you can power exactly 2 from there (connecting the other side of the wheels)
having a means to bridge the science gap might be useful though

[still frigate]

Yeah, except the other side is badwater. 😛

You can just see the falls in the upper right corner of my screen shot.

I could, however, use the other side to tie the two rows of waterwheels together and that would give me shared power to two buildings on the "safe-ish" side.

[urban wind]

Hello, I just started with the Whitepaws today... why is the basic smelter and the badwater bucketing post not connected?

[still frigate]

Some bugs (like those) are still being worked out from the upgrade from 0.6 to 0.7

[radiant arch]

short answer: the upgrade to version 7 is in progress and not done yet

[urban wind]

Ah ok, got it.

So I will have to wait for the next updates, I guess.

Thanks 🙂

[still frigate]

There were a lot more. We're getting them tracked down and @shell fiber is fixing them.

So far there have been daily updates fixing bugs, so be hopeful.

[urban wind]

Sounds good

[shell fiber]

oh, right

[shell fiber]

let's take a look at this

[still frigate]

Yeah, that one is sorta game breaking. Prevents science. 😛

[shell fiber]

hmm...yes, that's kind of the idea i had, for the better or worse.
sadly the script that determines which visual variant to use in order to have the correct rotation on all three inputs is dead.

there's an odd chance i can amputate the horizontal omni shaft of a connector, but i'm not sure.

[still frigate]

I'd be fine with the old ways back and one just has to research the new ones.

Sorta fitting in a way.

question: is there anyplace that lets one see the total number of haulers and total nubmer of builders?

[shell fiber]

ah, maybe one of the connectors was wrong

[still frigate]

Single-height stacking doesn't work yet either.

[shell fiber]

no longer self-stackable, until i find a solution

[still frigate]

Okay. I knew you were working on it.

[shell fiber]

it doesn't produce when nothing is consuming power

[still frigate]

I had a draw of 500. That is how I noticed the shafts weren't transmitting the need between the two types. So I deleted the second type and went up all the way with one that was working.

[shell fiber]

new problem found

the unsupported things like the bridge platfrom now always disappear on loading

[still frigate]

Yikes.

[shell fiber]

there was two connectors having errors

fixed now, but found another problem...

probably not excessively long to fix, but that will have to wait tomorrow

[still frigate]

Understood.

You putting out another update for the badwater before you call it a day?

[shell fiber]

i'll try

just edited the value for the vanishing bridge issue

compiling now

uploading

[still frigate]

Using back-and-forth building, I am getting my tower made! OMG this is slow and takes a lot of materials. /laughs

But it will be worth it.

🙂

[shell fiber]

Oh right, I'm going to adjust the kit growth speed by a lot because right it just makes the early game sluggish

Probably growth time will only start going up at 20-25-30 wellbeing or so

[still frigate]

Oh?! Forcing us to concentrate on wellbeing? I like it.

Mine have a 7

I see 5.0.5 is up!

[still frigate]

bug: "Contaminated Beaver Jail" is not connected to the district.

[still frigate]

For anyone playing WhitPaws on Hollows, there are some interesting features and challenges. Of note, is a major lack of proper places for small mines. So far I have found 5. Three of them were in a badwater river that I redirected to its alternate route.

Also, -some- of my sprawl was because of building flooding errors form previous builds. But now that it is built, I am making use of it.

Feeding this many beavers is a challenge at low tech level. With 5.0.5 I am able to start making science finally!

modding the mod update information:

I am currently testing several more mods than the "known list" of compatible mods. For those interested, here is my current mod list.

NOTE: I just activated Moddable Weather, so I do not yet know how nicely it will play. If it works, things will get very wet. Too wet msot likely. 😛

Harmony
MoreModLogs
Lapantouflemagic.1x1x2Storage
KnatteAnka.Materials
Tobbert.Ladder
Lapantouflemagic.TexturePack
Lapantouflemagic.Logstairs
MaterialPlzNoCrashes
eMka.ModSettings
ConstantWind
Aperion.FreeFlow
eMka.GoodsStatistics
Tobbert.PipetteTool
SaveEveryday
KnatteAnka.Staircase
TimberApi
KnatteAnka.MoreTopbars
Hytone.SimpleFloodgateTriggers
TimberApi.UIBuilder
Cordial.Mods.CutterTool
SteamUpdateButtons
Timberborn.IgorZ.TimberCommons
TimberUi
ModdableWeather
TImprove
TImprove4Mods
TImprove4Ui
ToolFinder
Tobbert.Unstuckify
Lapantouflemagic.WhitepawsFaction
KnatteAnka.MoreGroups```

[still frigate]

bug: CRASH on accessing dropdown for copyist AND artist lodges

This is a reproducible bug. It does not matter if the building has been completed or not. Click on the drop down list for what to do and it crashes.

EDIT: I tried it without any extra mods and it still happens. Probably something similar to the giant sequoias in an earlier release.

[shell fiber]

for the record, you can place the entrance of the mine on something else

[shell fiber]

i'll look into this

[still frigate]

Well, knowing that changes a lot of stuff

[shell fiber]

adjustment

tbh i could just delete the feature entirely

the lifespan curve is base game for the record

[radiant arch]

isn't that fine? adults still are working much longer the older they get? (and it basically only starts to count from mid-game too)

[tulip trail]

Hey all, ive just built the elevator to abyss, but i cant seem to connect power to it, there is the cog connection on the back side opposite the entrance but no power connections seem to connect anywhere?

[shell fiber]

what do you mean ? once the abyss elevator is connected, the modules will take power directly from it

at least if things work as intended...

[shell fiber]

also are we talking about U6 or the hot-from-the-oven-U7?

[tulip trail]

u6

[shell fiber]

seems correct to me 🤔

does the abyss say "no power" ?

[radiant arch]

is the last shaft missing? also it might not produce any power at night?

[tulip trail]

if i try to add the connection it just says power connection is blocked, ive tried all the way around the building, angle connections and nothing seems to want to connect

[radiant arch]

that's certainly not how it was supposed to work

with all my u6 games it should work connecting this way

[shell fiber]

just ignore the connection blocked message

i think it's a bug on some buildings, i don't quite understand why

[tulip trail]

oh cool its connected now and working

[shell fiber]

yeah, it says connection blocked while it's not, it's really mind-boggling, and in the building property i see absolutely nothing different from other buildings that work just fine 😓

[shell fiber]

need to look into that now

[shell fiber]

holy crap, that is going to be a lot of water... and a lot of beavers

[nova crescent]

@shell fiber Library isn't connecting in U7

[shell fiber]

oh

i'm both surprised and not surprised i completely forgot about it

like "yeah of course i left it for later" and "how could i forget that" 😅

[nova crescent]

Anyway, can't progress now until you fix it.
Glad to see whitepaws at U7 was waiting eagerly. Can't play with normal factions now days.
Became too boring. 😋

[shell fiber]

compiling

[shell fiber]

updated 🙂

[nova crescent]

@shell fiber Another bug.
Archetecht's lodge is not connecting to path.

[nova crescent]

@shell fiber Another bug
Scree press not getting power.

@shell fiber
Paper Mill not getting connected to path.

[shell fiber]

what is that blue centrifuge 😅

[nova crescent]

Ummmm. Yo didn't see that. Ignore ignore.....

I have added buildings from other fraction through my mod. 😂

@shell fiber
Game is crashing if I try to complete Clockwork Hydroponic Farms
Full logs attached. (More mod logs enabled)

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
at Timberborn.Workshops.WorkplacePowerConsumptionSwitch.UpdatePowerConsumption () [0x00000] in <d587dfd342534408abeb6b84713d2bc2>:0
at Timberborn.Workshops.WorkplacePowerConsumptionSwitch.StartTickable () [0x00000] in <d587dfd342534408abeb6b84713d2bc2>:0
at Timberborn.TickSystem.TickableComponent.Start () [0x00008] in <2007466c76eb40eb9ae872c7b0d4c413>:0

[shell fiber]

can you try without this automation mod (not sure what it is) that seem to appear here and there ?

[nova crescent]

Will try.

[shell fiber]

i just double checked the other bugs, it's all good now 🙂

[nova crescent]

@shell fiber
Abyss elevator expansion complaining about path.

All elevator expansion buildings have same issue.

[shell fiber]

ah !

indeed

found the error

let me take a shower and i'll upload the fix

i'll also poke at the CWfarms too

[nova crescent]

CFWfarms have the same issue with only your mod enabled and your dependency.
Just tested.

[shell fiber]

yep, jsut tested it right now, sorry 😅

[nova crescent]

Mechanical Drill also crashes the game. @shell fiber

[shell fiber]

hmm... likely a similar issue

[nova crescent]

@shell fiber Basic nuclear reactor is not completing.

[nova crescent]

@shell fiber How do you connect the wonder?
And it's complaning about water even I have submerged it into water.

@shell fiber balloon also crashes the game.

I think with this I have tested all the building at least it doesn't crash with other buildings or the path connection issue.

Not sure about the wonder. Can't figure out how to connect to the building. Also, it complains about not enough water.

[radiant arch]

wonder has to be in as deep as the pillars (was it 5? 6?) and connection is from one side 2 m above that

[nova crescent]

Are you in U7?

[radiant arch]

there's a door on that side (might need a bridge)

not yet tested u7. that was how it worked before

[shell fiber]

fixed thqt

i think the balloons, mech drills and CWF probably all have the same issue, which i think i had on the oversized waterpump

sadly, what the issue was was... unclear

but i'll just rebuild them using the oversized pump as template if necessary

[nova crescent]

I think wonder has some issue.
Is this correct setup for wonder?

[shell fiber]

i haven't redone the internal path and connections for the wonder yet

but it seems otherwise correct

[nova crescent]

Okay got it. Then all buildings are tested.

[shell fiber]

it's all pretty late game so i hope that can wait tomorrow

oh, right no i had the architect not connecting etc

okay, one more update, the fourth for today 😅

[nova crescent]

Thanks for all the updates.

[shell fiber]

you're welcome 🙂
thank you and everyone for dancing in the minefield and telling me what explodes 😅

if i had to find bugs one by one myself it would take a thousand years

uploaded !

[still frigate]

I had some RL trauma yesterday ||(had to put one of our kitties down after 14v years)|| and I just couldn't keep my mind on my duties as a playtester volunteer.

suggestion: make @ionic swift 's "Faster Underwater Movement" mod an official recommendation

Luke's logic for this mod in the first place makes total sense for the game. Doubly so for the "water beavers" I would say.

My playtests show it to work fine with this overhaul mod.

[stone pond]

my condolences.

[shell fiber]

Don't forget that the small mine can be build atop of something oh that whole save me the trouble of doing it myself 😅

[shell fiber]

I'm sad to hear that, take care.

[nova crescent]

@shell fiber
Elevator has some new issue.
can't place add-on buildings on left side.

Also, none of the add-on buildings can connect to path and power connection.

@shell fiber
Abyssal Nuclear Reactor is not generating power.

[shell fiber]

That's because of the path you have 😉

[shell fiber]

It needs something to consume power I think

Just slap a heavy gravity battery and discharge it in devmode

[nova crescent]

Sorry. 😂😂😂😅 Too much testing. 😂

[nova crescent]

Make sense.

[still frigate]

Is there storage for blueprints?

[radiant arch]

scroll racks - you might need them to collect blueprints from demolished buildings

[still frigate]

Okay... perhaps I am being blind, but where are they found?

[radiant arch]

i forgot 🙂

they were weirdly placed

[still frigate]

Wow... I am totally failing to find them.

[nova crescent]

It was scroll display. I think. I also can't find it in u7.
I think lapan removed it.

[radiant arch]

but how would beavers collect them without storage? did he add a new mass-storage?
for single district storing them with the copyist/ artist works

[still frigate]

@shell fiber Can you shed some light on blueprint storage? (see discussion above this post)

[nova crescent]

That they can take directly from copyist and artist building.
You don't need storage for that. Like any other material.

[still frigate]

Say you delete something that used a blueprint. That blueprint becomes unusable rubble wihout storage. Beavers wont recycle without a place to put something.

[nova crescent]

Yes that's true. If it's in rubble you can't use it.

[radiant arch]

that's the only problem...

[still frigate]

Yeah, that's no good.

I made a large farmhouse blueprint but it disappeared. Maybe in a crash with copyist and artist dropdowns (which is now fixed)? Not sure.

If it is truly gone I'll have to research it again. I was hoping with storage a builder would find it and deliver it to my copyist. Ah well.

[radiant arch]

if you change recipe in copyist/ artist/ whatever the active progress is lost, including all stuff that went into it (like scrolls)

[nova crescent]

@shell fiber Got this crash.

[nova crescent]

@shell fiber Successfully reproduced the issue.

If you have any blueprint.
And you hover over the blueprint in the top category where it shows the count the game crashes.

[nova crescent]

@shell fiber Another bug.
Happened when I was checking medical beds and clicked on the visitor.

[nova crescent]

@shell fiber This isn't a valid config?

[shell fiber]

sorry guys, i was mostly abscent today, some friends invited me to play board games 😅

[shell fiber]

correct, fixed now 🙂

[glass gull]

Having industrial/otherwise productive buildings fulfill needs along the lines of "rural views", "mechanical landscapes", "imposing knowledge" could be cool imo. So that once you build some new landmark building, beavers get a bit happier for it. Not all beavers would go out into the fields during their work, but it's not like they'd be debuffed, just not buffed.

[cloud flax]

Interesting. The giant sawmill has dirty fur debuff so maybe it might be possible to use same mechanics for good buffs??

[radiant arch]

only found out about the debuff years after i had placed mine center of a small map.. those beavers been ever so busy and needy after!
(glad the wonder solved that issue once and for all, literally)

[cloud flax]

I have yet to build the WB wonder. Wonder what it does

[cloud flax]

OMG guysss! You gonna make me play it again from start just to reach wonder it seems :P
Not that I won't love it ;)

[junior hatch]

What I can say is that it is a cool rocket, but I don't know anything about the effects of firing it.

[shell fiber]

well it makes you beavers forget all their other needs 🙂

[shell fiber]

the scroll display was broken for some weird reason, just fixed it now

[shell fiber]

this one is because there was no storage for the scrolls

[shell fiber]

this one is new, there seem to be something missing in the need description of something that can kill a beaver.🤔

[radiant arch]

missing .. something that can kill a beaver 🤔 - interesting direction! haha

[still frigate]

I just updated to 5.0.8 and I am still not finding where this is located... or is this fixed for future release 5.0.9?

[shell fiber]

Oh yeah on Mondays and Tuesdays I don't have much time for modding

[still frigate]

Ah. Understandable.

[still frigate]

These brambles survive underwater, eh? If they survived without water as well, they literally could take over a map! Wow.

possible bug: red cabbage storage

Unless I am missing it, which is quite possible, red cabbage are not included in the warehouses options. Unless there is someplace special they are stored?

[old kite]

im pretty sure when theyre harvested they just turn into a cabbage, unless something changed for U7

[still frigate]

Ah. I have never grown them before.

[radiant arch]

they die after some time with >1m of water if i remember that correctly

[still frigate]

They are in a future rice field, so the water isn't that deep. I'll harvest them away... or maybe leave them and just control harvest them.

[radiant arch]

if it's looking bad you can place rice fields between them - they never grow onto a tile which is marked for building or growing

[still frigate]

Yep. I do that with chestnut or pine trees all over the place.

[radiant arch]

that's a sweet layout to put a big farmhouse into the midst of!

[shell fiber]

Yeah different plant, but it's just cabbage, it's for people who like it better and also so that the assistant farmers stop complaining they have nothing to do

[shell fiber]

For people who didn't know, the large farmhouse (like many buildings) can tolerate up to 1 high water

Buildings who can't generally have some fire going, so of course that wouldn't work well underwater

[nova crescent]

@shell fiber Clininic has saame issue. from 2nd building it's not connecting.

[radiant arch]

does it still allow ladders below too?

that would improve range (especially towards the back) a lot in this case

[nova crescent]

@shell fiber Ballon is also having crashes.

InvalidOperationException: WPScoutBalloon(Clone) doesn't have any required WorkplaceBehavior component
at Timberborn.WorkSystem.Workplace.ValidateWorkplaceBehaviors () [0x00029] in <e019003cd6194036a2b85de41ba7a7b0>:0
at Timberborn.WorkSystem.Workplace.Start () [0x00006] in <e019003cd6194036a2b85de41ba7a7b0>:0

[still frigate]

crash on mouseover dead beaver

Uncaught exception but didn't generate an error file. Had to hard kill the game from steam.

EDIT: For the crash you have to click on the dead beaver and mouseover their needs.

[shell fiber]

Probably the same issue as drills etc, will look into it

[shell fiber]

And this is probably the missing thing in the lethal needs

[still frigate]

possible bug: Should this building flood since it can be part of a levee?

[still frigate]

Also, what would one upgrade this with? I built a second one and had thought the "logging loft" would be it, but even though it will place, it doesn't seem to be able to connect to the district, front or back.

[still frigate]

probable bug: Some buildings wont connect to platforms.

The mechanical kitchen shown was one more unit left of where it is and would not connect to that double platform. I also tried the hanging platforms.

I believe the Lumberjack barn has the same problem. Possibly more buildings as well.

EDIT: Also the assembly line. I tried to build one on top of factory and it wouldn't connect to the district.

[still frigate]

So here I was trying to upgrade all of my early game equipment. Then I noticed that I couldn't find any building beyond the old gnawing station that make the screwpress axels. Is this correct or am I just missing a better building for it?

[radiant arch]

it should be possible to make them in the abyss? there's a factory module (really advanced / late)

[still frigate]

Ah. Not near that one yet, I don't beleive.

[radiant arch]

it's pretty common to need a couple of gnawers around for a long time haha - rotating between sawdust needs and axles
strongly recommended to have some extra and stockpile axles

[still frigate]

Yeah, my lumber mills aren't keeping up with my sawdust needs.

[radiant arch]

only advanced sawmill might at some point (or the 3rd of them depending on population size)

[still frigate]

My population is absurd. 222 workers. 390 beds. 18 are empty. 109 are still kits!

[radiant arch]

that's some rapid growth if things not changed for U7

[still frigate]

The population is struggling to keep up with the wroker demand. I seems like there are always too may kits and not enough adults.

[radiant arch]

on medium / bigger maps i usually target around 600-800 for midgame to have multiple copies of core industries and speed up bot production and abyss reactor later

[radiant arch]

and around 10% are just unable to work

[still frigate]

I'm been seeing so many buildings saying "beaver only" I've been wondering why one would build bots in this one.

[radiant arch]

bots can carry lots and haul anything

that's the only use though (and 80% of them walk around with single resource still..)

yet, they never die and neither eat nor drink eliminating any such needs for the ever growing community

[still frigate]

They don't break down liek the vanilla bots?

[radiant arch]

only after thousands of days

[still frigate]

AS slow as science goes, it may take thousands of nights. 😛

I'm eating science as fast as I am making it. I need to switch to advanced science, but not keeping up with the ingredients for it.

[radiant arch]

fun-fact: those bots batteries run couple of times longer than brambles in a desert

[radiant arch]

so true!! in later games i always focus on foods and building my second ENS as soon as can do

[still frigate]

I'm still using libraries for science. Two of them, fully staffed.

And I just cashed because I accidently moused over scrolls at the top. /laughs

My fault. It is a known bug that will be fixed when Lapan has time.

Sometimes it is simple things in this game that bring amusement. I have a dam on top of a pass-though lodge and it likes like the beavers are just going through a wall of water. 😛

I also -just- discovered that balloons aren't optional. Such is life.

[still frigate]

Are there any instructions for the hot air balloon phase, or is it just trial and error?

[radiant arch]

well, you go with demands.. like you will needs lots of those exploration things (really LOTS for pilot licenses especially)
and you will want to get foods for your big flies stocked
and after you can use them for wellbeing and foreign foods once you got airships

something like that? most other options are fake anyway (=not worth it)

[still frigate]

Looks like I go no further down that track. I also got hit with balloons crashing the game. #1070709592176197642 message

Getting further and further.

[shell fiber]

should not

[shell fiber]

how ?
are you on an older update ?

also, now the farms, tappershack, lumberjack barns, forester etc, can actually flood if they are completely submerged

[shell fiber]

there was yet a few more buildings that didn't have their roofs set as walkable 😐

[shell fiber]

who doesn't like good old cavern behind a waterfall ? 😉

okay, i'm good on the easy bugs, now let's take a look at those balloons / drills

[still frigate]

5.0.8 was the newest that I saw on mod.io.

[shell fiber]

Found the issue, a combination of script changes and recipes now requiring an icon to display (some recipes go back to U4 when that wasn't a thing)

But I think I'll allow all balloons to have a dedicated worker

[still frigate]

I don't know enough about the balloons yet to offer an opinion.

My actual game in old-6 never got this far.

[spring heath]

is this determined by the top of roof or top of square bit?

[shell fiber]

it's mostly arbitrary.
but the primary determinant is that only voxels that are visually full are made watertight (so the entire first voxel layer of the lumberjack barn, minus the lower right corner), and watertightness on several voxel layers must be identical, so i can make a 2x2x2 cube watertight, but not a L-shaped building. and i thought a triangle-shaped building working just fine at the bottom of lake baikal would be silly, so they flood above 1 voxel of water.

but if you build the upgrade, then they're fine 🙂
which is not super extra consistent to be honest 🤔

[still frigate]

The ballons still giving you grief?

[shell fiber]

oh, no that's probably more of the same, i just don't have much time to mod at the moment

[still frigate]

Ah. Yeah, that kinda makes squashing bugs hard. 😉

[shell fiber]

just tried the balloons, seems to be working now 🙂

decided to go fix some text entries, there really used to be some wild crap in this mod 🤣

[still frigate]

Wow.

[shell fiber]

it comes back at when we first tried to add bots, the model was not extracted properly but the animation still worked, which made it look like some ungodly monstrosity.
which i of course...had...to integrate somehow. 🤐

never went through it though, was too busy with other more sensible parts of the mod.

also i didn't have any mean to reskin the bots at that time

this should have been their face image 😅

[shell fiber]

uploading update now 🙂

[heavy lodge]

Need a darker night in game. Will see only walking eyes 👀 🤣

[shell fiber]

if someone were to make that i could use it in some other custom faction 😅

i have so many ideas 🤐

it's up ! have fun dancing in the minefiled 🙂

although it seem that most things that could blow up already did 🤔

Oh right, completely forgot about that lethal needs issue

Oops ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[still frigate]

So... are balloons supposed to be static on top of their towers or are they supposed to animate and fly?

Just so I know if they are working as intended.

[shell fiber]

They should fly off

They're not moving ?

[shell fiber]

okay, not crashing anymore when hovering above mild disease 👍

[shell fiber]

hm... not moving... 🤔

[nova crescent]

@shell fiber was this fixed in 5.0.9?

[shell fiber]

That's a clinic right ? I had forgot this one too (just fixed now)

[nova crescent]

Yes. Thanks. 😀

[shell fiber]

Also the large window should be a Caduceus

[junior hatch]

Make sure it has double snakes.
A caduceus with just one snake represents veterinary medicine.

[radiant arch]

isn't veterinary what it would be here?

[shell fiber]

Actually I think I heard the opposite 🤔 the symbol for medicine is the one with only one snake, while the staff and two snakes is a symbol of Hermes which is a messenger or whatnot.

But the one with one snake is not a Caduceus it's a Rod of Asclepius, which hardly matters because it's confusing either way 😅

[tulip trail]

i dont get it with the traders, for some reason im trying to get spicy sodas into the traders to get seeds, the tanks keeps filling up then all my beavers come along and drink it and wont put it in the ballon traders?

[radiant arch]

that's the sad truth about hauling limits in the base game...

placing them strategically, having surplus production (highly recommended) or having excess haulers or using separate districts can help

might help to skip tanks temporarily too

[nova crescent]

@shell fiber Same issue with gigarantuan storage.

[nova crescent]

@shell fiber **Game crash. **
Reason: Clockwork Hydroponic Farm

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
at Timberborn.Workshops.WorkplacePowerConsumptionSwitch.UpdatePowerConsumption () [0x00000] in <cf1211186bd94583b806fc06e4933354>:0
at Timberborn.Workshops.WorkplacePowerConsumptionSwitch.StartTickable () [0x00000] in <cf1211186bd94583b806fc06e4933354>:0
at Timberborn.TickSystem.TickableComponent.Start () [0x00008] in <8498b5b25fae49a0bfb26d409948e183>:0

[still frigate]

Also, some of these balloon windows are too wide. On my laptop this one takes so much space I could hardly place the balloon. The airship window size is fine though.

[still frigate]

More connection weirdness. 3 of the 5 medium warehouses connect just fine. Two of them do not. The paths for the two that do not connect are on top of small warehouses. But these paths connect just fine to other small warehouses (as shown).

(Also, ignore the flooded buildings. Just waiting for the water in them to evaporate.)

[still frigate]

I tried it in another situation and it worked.

My only theory is that the two that wont connect are attempting to connect from the top-side of the small warehouses while the one that does connect is connecting from the top-back of the small warehouse.

[still frigate]

Here is a third instance, this time a scroll case, on a platform, but the path is on the top of another scroll case.

The scroll case on the ground using the same path works.

Another view of the above:

Ah ha! The problem (in part) is with the "platform"! I deleted it and built a "crappy platform" and it works fine.

The overhand walkway also works fine so far.

This one appears to just be a graphic error. Even nearly full, the large tanks on these always look empty. The small tank behind animates just fine.

[still frigate]

Anyone... is there anything like a solid dirt block to fill and shape holes? I thought there was but if so I am not finding it.

Maybe I am thinking of the U6 version?

bug: giant buried tank and Tree Nursery is not connecting to the district.

It also says tree nursary can connect from the bottom via ladder but I was unable to get that to even place down.

[brave ivy]

Didn't the info I gave you help? I got my lodges working.

[still frigate]

terrain block is missing from U7

This is from a U6 game I am comparing against.

[shell fiber]

Oh, oh well of course, more autonomous buildings shenanigans

[shell fiber]

Yeah I didn't even start looking into it.
I didn't start thinking whether I want to be able to build overhanging terrain.

Note that with a cost of 1000 dirt, go wild of you can 😅

[shell fiber]

I tried but that didn't work 😓 or I misunderstood something.

Problem is every single build attempt of my mod takes a good 5-10 mins so I quickly get bored when troubleshooting this think of unclear mess

But I'll try again

[still frigate]

If I can do maths, that is 1 dirt block per drill every 6¼ days.

well, if the drills ran 24 hours. Never got that far.

[still frigate]

Do you plan on eventually adding zip lines or the like?

[brave ivy]

I can go through with you what I did that worked later, after work.

[still frigate]

I know what a normal school traditionally is, but I can't find a translation for Subeaveure. I assume it is some modifier attached to beaver, but that is as far as I get.

[shell fiber]

ah, yes, sure but i have yet to even look at how it works

[still frigate]

Cool. No rush, I was just curious.

[shell fiber]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/École_normale_supérieure_(Paris)

and more specifically the one i went to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/École_normale_supérieure_de_Lyon

although the new logo didn't translate well to timberborn UI so i went for the old one 🙂

[still frigate]

I was right about what a normal school is.

what does "Subeaveure" translate as?

[shell fiber]

superieur originally just means "higher" but i wanted to put in "beaver" somewhere

i just frenchified the spelling 😅

[still frigate]

/laughs
Fair enough.

[radiant arch]

i like élitiste beavers 🥖

[brave ivy]

So... like a university or college basically?

[heavy lodge]

Beaversity ? 🤔

[still frigate]

Like in tech when one "trains the trainers."

A normal school is for educating educators.

[shell fiber]

not sure what the original meaning was meant to be, but yes, nowadays it mostly trains professors and researchers, and occasionnaly weirdoes 🤐

(overlap may occur)

fixed the CWF too

[shell fiber]

oh, it doesnt cut the text anymore ?

[still frigate]

Yet one more change from 6 to 7.

[shell fiber]

seems fine on my side, do you have a mod to move the windows to the side ?

[still frigate]

Yes.

that the fault?

[shell fiber]

can you try without just to confirm ?

probably, but if that's the only issue this mod has, i can insert line breaks in the text

[still frigate]

I can tomorrow. I'm running old-6 right now on my laptop and not in condition to go up and use my desktop at this time.

Some of them, like exploration and airship are fine. I am guessing you have line breaks in those two?

[shell fiber]

in principle they have, but at some point someone gave me a macro to mass-correct the missing capital letters etc and that removed some of that. now the text file is 1500 lines long so it's hard to track them down manually unless you know which thing you want

[still frigate]

gotcha.

Happy to do it. Just in too much pain tonight.

I say "tonight" but it is half past 3 AM. /laughs

[shell fiber]

okay, added back the terrain block (hopefully works)

was there anything else pressing ? except the balloons not moving

[still frigate]

the large water tank and especially the tree nursery not connecting.

[radiant arch]

the deadly needs?

[shell fiber]

done

ah, the tree nursery

yes

[still frigate]

I thought there was another major not connecting one... let me reread my posts...

There are the weird connection glitches on top of certain structures, but I wouldn't call that major.

[shell fiber]

that's still pretty troublesome, but i fixed it

accidentally had ticked the wrong box 😑

[still frigate]

Oh, I can't upgrade the lumberjacks cottages in u7. the building places now but wont connect to the district.

[shell fiber]

flipped cottages ?

you mean the barns right ?

[still frigate]

Can't do this in U7.

It builds but wont connect to the district.

[radiant arch]

did this work in U6? i never could get it to work with the entrance i believe

[still frigate]

Yep. this is my live U6 game playing right now on my laptop.

[shell fiber]

damn you must really hate trees 🤣

but it should be doable

i'll nee to poke at it myself

[still frigate]

My guess is that it needs its district connection point to be one block more forward, if that makes any sense.

[still frigate]

This thing is really good at harvesting brambles.

I use the "cutter tool" mod to form a checkerboard pattern and let them keep regrowing and filling it.

This one is still filling the area, but this is the idea of it.

Your White Paws map too. 😉

[shell fiber]

nah, the problem is the door on the left lumberjack barn is flipped, so i need to add an internal path to the right side

[still frigate]

Ah. Makes sense.

[shell fiber]

okay, i'll upload that for now 🙂

[still frigate]

Sounds great!

[shell fiber]

damn it, yet again, i find myself wanting a 4way pit and ladder house 😐

am i the only one wanting that ? i've been thinking for a while that the blocky gatherer would be better if it was a pit-and ladder

but realistically it should only be 2-ways

[radiant arch]

would help a lot imho if it was 2-ways

as for pit-and-ladder: it's fairly okay to use two and a ladder / stair for 2-way. quite often wished for 4-way too!

one down-side of pit-and-ladder: it can't be overflown without flooding. the gatherer or the walk-through both can (and you can build dams on top)

[stiff flint]

yes please, I like the options for mega sized buildings

[glass gull]

I can't wait to play WBO with Bobingabout's housing optimize :D

[shell fiber]

problem i have with a 4-way is that i really seems like the shittiest house imaginable, like you have 4 rooms, all separated by public roads. gotta be hell

[stiff flint]

and living in a foundry is better?

[shell fiber]

free central heating, and who doesn't like to stare at white-hot molten steel 😅

[radiant arch]

not to mention the off-chance to fall into said molten steel

[nova crescent]

Instant beaver statue.

[radiant arch]

2-story-pit-and-ladder?
living rooms upstairs and lounge / workspace (builders) / restrooms (haulers) downstairs with the crossroad?

would look lovely with some decorations and glass walls for the lower floor haha (and cause a new use for glass panes)

[stiff flint]

north-south entrances on the first floor.... east-west on the second

[radiant arch]

nice too!! having 3 rooms each side totally makes sense somehow!

[shell fiber]

well you can just stack two single-floor buildings for that 😉

[glass gull]

Maybe the 4-way pit&lodge could have offcentre doorways?

[shell fiber]

but then that becomes a building that is too efficient

[shell fiber]

i also thought about a shape like that, but i'm not too sold on it

it's still an option thougth

[stiff flint]

what about a 4x4 format?.... make it a larger building

[radiant arch]

imho as they are right now they are pretty much the go-to option either way

[radiant arch]

too impractical for placement. there's so many 3-wide rivers and holes and it's perfect

[stiff flint]

dynamite is cheap

you would be blocking entrances putting it in a 3 wide channel anyway

[cloud flax]

felt like playing tetris trying to fit 4 of these and still have some usable space around. i was worried that i wont be able to fit 4 there

[glass gull]

are those deep mines?

[cloud flax]

yeah

this map has surprisingly very few spaces for digging down.

had to hunt for a surface near my settlement to be atleast 4 deep

[nova crescent]

@shell fiber In 5.1.1 the add on bildings are still not connecting.

[nova crescent]

@shell fiber Why haulers ignoring dirt from mechanical drill?
Am I missing something?
Rocks and iron are carried out instantly but not dirt why?

[shell fiber]

ah, this issue again...

goddamit

[stiff flint]

pause the drills and they will rush to empty the precious dirt into available storage

[cloud flax]

was medium mine suppposed to only produce 1 NO2?? its the same speed as the small mine if thats the case....
(this is from U6 btw)

[nova crescent]

Okay will try . Thanks.

[stone spruce]

By the time this gets updated to Steam it's going to be so stable the Devs will be eager to rebase the game onto it XD

(As a casual enjoyer of the mod, thank you all for working so hard on the U7 update)

[shell fiber]

ah, yeah right

[shell fiber]

actually i'm wondering if i should upload it on top of the U6 version or give a new page for the U7 version, because i don't want to have to deal with the compatibility with this fat cow (mod is almost 400Mo)

[nova crescent]

New one for U7. You can create folders also for different version for steam package but that will increase the size too much.

[glass gull]

can beavers enter the pit and ladder lodges by the ladder? Without a side door?

[junior hatch]

From what I've seen, only the marked tile at the back actually connects to the pathing.

[glass gull]

Thanks! Looks like it'll work

[glass gull]

Honestly I was apalled at how cheap the tooth grinder was. I was expecting logging to be bogged down by beavers only being able to chop 10 trees before having to switch careers, and the grinder to be locked past at least metalsmithing.

[still frigate]

I agree about the new one for U7.

I strongly prefer using steam workshop; however, had I not gotten it from mod.io I would have never found your tutorial videos.

[glass gull]

should pitlodges register as flooded in this case?

(water in ladder shaft)

(Can't send image for some reason)

[still frigate]

As requested, Timprove 4 UI is deactivated. Also upgraded to 5.1.1

Airship and Balloon Trader Landing Pad are now the widest, but still very reasonable in width.

(Discord also wont let me upload images at this time.)

[shell fiber]

i'll remove that, it's annoying and serves little to no purpose, that was just in case i went on with the sluice, but i probably won't

also i want to make the cross-shaped and 3 wide dam fit on top of the pit and ladder lodges

[glass gull]

Were you planning on making the flooding toggle watter collision?

[shell fiber]

oh, no i can't do that

if i were to make sluices, i would make them an upgrade to a special kind of pit and ladder lodge, where you'd have the water flow in the central pit with one sluice, and flow out on an other sluice.

but it's complicated to set up and with how flooding works now it's a pain

and i don't really want to be adding too many new buildings, as soon as this is stable i'll try to add the ropeways and that will be it

[glass gull]

ah, ok.
Having sluices be parts of pit&ladders sounds cool, but idk how well that'd mesh with the badwater management angle. You couldn't really have a "let badwater through" sluice without routinely badwatering beavers on the ladder

[still frigate]

@shell fiber

Nearly everything I reported last time is fixed! Wonderful!

One item of questionable importance is that the tree nursery wont connect to a pit and ladder structure as it says in its description.

[shell fiber]

remind me if i forget again

i need to go to bed soon

[still frigate]

No worries. Not really important to me at all (in this instance at least), but I saw it in the description so I tested it. 🙂

[shell fiber]

it's meant to work, the tree nursery often wants to be both touching water and dry ground, but is not watertight itself, so putting it on a pit-and ladder lodge that gives access to any side from the bottom should be pretty advantageous, it kind of has to work

[still frigate]

Oh! Didn't know about the water part. This is my first time with one.

[shell fiber]

oh, i forgot to add the dirt block to the prefab list of course

(that's just to plant bamboo, it doesn't need water otherwise)

okay, GN !

[still frigate]

~~ missing: banana greenhouse

Bananas wont plant. I am assuming this is why?~~

PEBKAC error. Disregard.

[still frigate]

By the by, I like where you put dynamite in U7 much better than where it was in U6.

I just realized that there doesn't appear to be any tools to stop badwater ground contamination. Is there some other way to combat it in this mod?

[still frigate]

Never mind. Once again dynamite and wood save the day! 😉

Do domesticated brambles not self-replicate like wild ones do?

Hrm... apparently not. @shell fiber can you confirm one way or the other?

(Once again @ionic swift saves the day with their autosave mod.)

[ionic swift]

"saves the day" pun intended?

[still frigate]

Not in this case.

😉

[still frigate]

I wish beavers would live where they work. Some of these guys have an evil commute.

[still frigate]

bug: the architect's lodge no longer works as a "big staircase."

[cloud flax]

U6 build. always love to use the architects lodge as a staircase!

[still frigate]

Nice!

One of the thing I love doing is making impossible improbable architecture.

I love abusing overhangs and making inversed pyramids.

We can pretend to blame this:

[cloud flax]

my version of hanging gardens :P

[still frigate]

That looks liek a build you have worked a very long time on.

[cloud flax]

yeaah. but love spending time to build something nice, compact and meaningful

[still frigate]

I start with barely functional chaos. Then, over time, I tend to delete and replace into something nicer.

That is part of why you ALWAYS see piles of rubble all over my settlements.

[cloud flax]

oh for sure!!!

at the top gardens, i earlier had some handicrafters lodge, but then needed more bramble flowers so it was gone and this cliff was repurposed for this. but like i shifted district center so many times, changing where i want what.... its systematic chaos lol

current District center

[still frigate]

Would you mind rotating that for me? I'd love to get a look at that tall structure behind the billboard sign.

[cloud flax]

the forestry viewing upgrade?

[still frigate]

Yeah. I have never gotten one of those tower upgrades to work so I wanna see how it is laid out.

[cloud flax]

let me reload the game. i just closed it

[still frigate]

Oh. sorry.

[cloud flax]

but i just put 2 staircasesin front of the arrow

theres another one in which you have to offset the forester by one on the inside. The harvesters lodge one iirc

hauling upgrade

with the harvester/farmhose, you need to put 1 length suspension bridge

[still frigate]

I would have never figured that one out.

[cloud flax]

hit and trail lol

[still frigate]

(I have tried a few times)
Should have seen me figuring out the lumberjack barns. Glad I got those in 6 since they weren't originally working in 7.

[cloud flax]

for the luberjack barn though, no need for space. you just need to allign the door faces of both buildings

this is all in U6 btw!

[still frigate]

I was meaning this config. Took me forever to figure out.

[cloud flax]

ooh i have never used that lol.... havent felt the need

[still frigate]

Harvesting large amounts of brambles.

[cloud flax]

where are you using?? usually 1 lumberjack barn seems enough

aaaaaaaah

is it still enough though???

[still frigate]

Sorta. I never seem to have enough brambles.

[cloud flax]

sameeeeee

[still frigate]

From the other direction:

[cloud flax]

and GMO lab takes that glowing liquid which is such a PITA

[still frigate]

They are harveste din a checkerboard pattern.

I -just- got my first bug installed. I was looking for where to store frozen hooman meat.

(I am guesing that frozen pit)

[cloud flax]

my bramble mess lol

[cloud flax]

yeah, but dont worry you just wont have enough untill you get those big airships

[still frigate]

I use the cutter mod for a checkerboard cutting pattern that gives them the fastest regrowth.

[cloud flax]

i made checkerbaord manually :')

[still frigate]

Works too

[cloud flax]

but yeah, i wont worry much about storing hooman meat. you will use it fast enough. only issue would be if its left in the rubble

[still frigate]

Wow... I already struggle to keep up with my drinks and the meat wants more strong alcohol. /laughs

[cloud flax]

am wondering if i should go towards balloons next or foundary and power and those stuff

[still frigate]

I'm working my way though the tech chain. Gotta unlock glass.

[cloud flax]

i feel sad for them haulers....

[cloud flax]

what population are you at rn?

[still frigate]

508 adults with 37 kits.

[cloud flax]

ooooh niceeee

unlocking balloons and then the tree nursery is gonna open up tons of further food stuff for well being. might do that first then get into the dangerous industrial stuff

at 288 beds rn

[still frigate]

I have my first tree nursery up and a second one building... slowly. Not enough dirt.

666 of 700 dirt... getting there.

[cloud flax]

hahahahha i remeber... just cursing

just keep a dirt pile next to tree nursery and set it to obtain and priority by haulers

[still frigate]

Just realized I forgot to raise it a level to unblock the door. So I had to cancel the build and start over. /laughs

At least I have the materials there and might have the rest of the dirt by the time it is done again.

[cloud flax]

hahaha. gpnna sleep now though

[still frigate]

Also, thank you. I was able to build some of those upgrades I couldn't figure out on my own.

[still frigate]

How do you get the sick & wounded beavers to actually use the Clinic. I have one full of surgery tools and the other full of antibiotics and no sick & wounded beavers are going there. They just use the little beds.

Hrm... I guess they are using them. But at night.

Now I am not sure. I have burned and injured beavers still.

[shell fiber]

Houses work as levees but save for that, nothing

[shell fiber]

Yeah you can dig a trench and fill it with log levees

[shell fiber]

They do, but you have to unplant them. The planting order disables natural spread

[shell fiber]

Have you tried bobingabout's house optimise?

[shell fiber]

Is this ai or some movie prop ? I wouldn't assume it to be real 🤔

[shell fiber]

This is not bramble harvesting, that is eradication 😅
I tired to build that, that's a real lawnmower 😊

[shell fiber]

Would need to look into it

[still frigate]

From a movie.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0339291/

[still frigate]

That is why I use it with a checkerboard cutting pattern.

[still frigate]

Not with White Paws... yet.

[glass gull]

I'm using it and it works splendidly with WBO on U7

It's not perfect all the time, but it sure helps

[still frigate]

Cool. I'm stuck on my laptop for the night so I'm back to U6 for now.

In my U7 game I split the district but that is always a management nightmare for me.

[glass gull]

This pit and ladder is unreachable despite being connected to ones with the same orientation and showing path connection

[brave ivy]

Only 400MB? Is that per version? My biggest upload was about 1.4GB with Emberpelts, but that's when I had to support 3 versions. U6, U7 stable and U7 experimental.

[brave ivy]

Did you try my housing optimise mod?

[shell fiber]

they can't be build from under themselves...yet.

[shell fiber]

i have the textures split into a different mod

[shell fiber]

thanks for making it btw 🙂

[brave ivy]

Or remaking it. It is heavily based on the old code.

[glass gull]

So quick question - will the current clunky borderpost ziplines remain once the new and improved ziplines are added or no?

[stone spruce]

I'd say whatever gives you the least amount of work to do. Logically people probably won't stay on U6 forever; continuing to support it or compatibility for it shouldn't be something that gives you grief.

[shell fiber]

what are you talking about ? 🤔

[glass gull]

I might have misunderstood ig, I thought I read somewhere you were going to add the new zipline systems to whitepaws but then ig you might have been talking about porting the old ziplines?

[still frigate]

I believe they are referring to the long-distance district crossings.

[glass gull]

This message made me think that iirc

[shell fiber]

ah

those are entirely different things

[still frigate]

I just discovered them yesterday, myself.

[glass gull]

I know, but I feel like with the new ziplines the long distance crossings could be considered obsolete by some

not that I think so

[still frigate]

Might need to speed up the crossing to make them better than zip lines, but they still would have value.

Here is a double-bramble harvester (as soon as the rest of the brambles fill in).

[still frigate]

reminder: the filler block and the under-access for the tree nursery. 🙂

[still frigate]

I will be doing so when I switch back to my desktop shortly.

[still frigate]

I built them in U6 and they don't work any better there from what I can tell, (Clinics)

I really want to try "lemon canyon" in U7 but I don't want to start over. /laughs

[still frigate]

Regarding clinics and medical beds, should I delete the injury and disease beds since these what what the clinics cover?

[still frigate]

I followed an injured beaver for a full day (and then some) and it never went to a clinic. Is the clinic only for major injuries?

I put injury beds back in and all my injured beavers went to them immediately. Diseased beavers seem to use the clinic as I have none left but also no disease beds.

[still frigate]

bug or intentional?: upon load, several levees vanished.

All but one of these could not be replaced because of missing dirt blocks. (Which is probably why they vanished.)

[still frigate]

@brave ivy It seems to have helped but even after several in-game days, some of them are not updating. Does your script have a limit to the number of beavers it will process? White Paws end up with huge populations. I'm only mid-late game too.

[brave ivy]

It fills only Adult slots first, so if you have more adults than adult slots, it's not that efficient

[still frigate]

Ah. yeah, that is a MAJOR issue with White Paws.

I'll expect it to get beter when my population is better used.

😉

BTW, I use this in all of my other plays and it works great, but they usually don't go over 200 or so beavers.

[still frigate]

bug: suspension bridge pathing too low

I had to add connections on the opposite bank at ground level and the beavers walk across the water not the bridge. 😛

[still frigate]

Should glowing fluid and strong alcohol have the same texture and color in the barrel?

[still frigate]

more on the clinics...

I can't seem to leave this one alone, especially since I got a major injury beaver. So I concentrated on it a bit. Here is what I have done and what I found out.

• I removed all beds.
• I have one of each of the three clinics.
• Each is fully stocked with supplies and worker.
• Diseased patients get healed quickly.
• Burn patients get healed quickly.
• There are always injured patients and the number doesn't seem to ever go down more than 1 or two, if that.
• I built and stocked a 4th clinic, setting it for injury (so now I have two injury clinics)
• the number of injured beavers is actually going up.
• note: several beavers were burned and healed while I was watching the injured numbers.
• EDIT: a beaver with a severe injury went directly to the clinic and was instantly healed.
• U6 Version: The problem exists in the U6 version of the game as well, despite the tooltip for surgery kits saying it works for minor and serious injuries.

So, whatever the problem is, seems to only affect the injury clinic and beavers with minor injuries.

I hope this helps.

[still frigate]

I, um, "took care of" my excess adult population. There are even 2 unfilled jobs. And so far, after checking over a dozen different workplaces, none of them have the beaver(s) working there that are actually living there.

[brave ivy]

hmmmm

[still frigate]

Current stats:

[still frigate]

After exiting the game to main menu (to change a weather setting) and comin back in, beavers are living and working in the same place.

Not all of them, but some.

[brave ivy]

they should only move at day break

[still frigate]

Daybreak just hit. How long should I give it or is it basically instant?

[brave ivy]

should be instant

[still frigate]

Still a lot more that don't match than do match. But also I am back to 5 unemployed adults. But definitely more than 5 places don't have beavers living where they work.

[still frigate]

A great ||evil dev|| killed my entire beaver population (save for 6). Lets see what happens when things build back up.

At about 100 population I am getting a lot of mates. Most of them that don't match are places without a residence attached, but not all.

I'll add about 100 a day and see if I can identify where it has a problem, if it does this time.

[still frigate]

200 and 300 are still pretty good. That is about 50% workforce.

by 400 it is getting off more and more but still a fair number of matches.

At 500 the game itself is stalling while assigning people to jobs. 130 openings and 20 unemployed for a while but eventually it assigned them. The first two buildings I check, water pumps by the district center showed 1 match, one not a match. Scrolling through the population we are getting a lot fewer matches than before, but still over 50% by my rough visual estimate.

What is really messed up is you get stuff like the attached image happening. An empty space in the residential part and the worker still doesn't live there.

I am wondering if the mod's code to attempt to fill all empty beds might be conflicting with your housing mod? In just 5 days, the mod has generated 204 children.

[still frigate]

@shell fiber Do these still exist? If so, where?

[still frigate]

bug: abyss modules not powered or connected to path

I believe this may have already been reported.

[glass gull]

Am I correct in assuming this exception was thrown by the drinking fountain? I had one put in "just in case" as I decided to store some water in barrels

I'm gonna demolish it and see if the problem repeats

I am using some other mods so it may be a conflict.

[cobalt wraith]

It'd be easier to tell with a more detailed log, but that does seem likely from the snippet

[glass gull]

Here are the other files from the error report

[cobalt wraith]

It looks like you're on 5.1.0, try and see if the error occurs still on 5.1.1
- Whitepaws Faction (v5.1.0)

I'd start with that and go from there

[glass gull]

ok, I'll update

[glass gull]

Are treated planks even used for anything by the whitepaws?