Water Beaver Overhaul

[radiant heart]

sucks a bit tho.. assistant is better to harvest not plant 🤔

If i remember correctly, can't be locked by the assistant but plantable by the farm, right?

kinda like spadderdock that is now a large farm exclusive?

[radiant heart]

and tryed it out, removed sunflower seeds from the normal run and chaos was gone.... so i guess the nerf on "hunger" is just a tad too big

[tall cobalt]

I want to do crafted resources but it objectively speaking makes far more sense to start from the buildings end

[tall cobalt]

anyway the two mines are written up now

[tall cobalt]

http://whitepaws.wikidot.com/power-plug

Trying to build around the exact plug locations can create industrial chaos! This is by design. How you somehow manage to get your power shafts into the correct places is your problem.

[radiant heart]

might ad, "carefull, a window is not a power plug"

tons of pll do it, i did it often to

[tall cobalt]

I did put a bit about that

Do not confuse the power input with the windows of the building - windows generally have 2-4 spokes and are larger.

Each entry on a powered building will also say where the power plug is

[shell fiber]

Nope. But honestly setting farms to planting first is generally the best solutions, except if you really want everything harvested before a drought or something

[radiant heart]

exactly my point, but with a huge land the assistant is there to harvest not to plant at first

[shell fiber]

Yeah that's the idea 😉
I would go for something like "no one said beavers were competent engineers" 😅

[radiant heart]

Want RCE to never play that faciton? 😂

[shell fiber]

But I'm pretty sure you always en up to the saturation point where planting is done essentially at the same rhythm as harvesting. If you want it to harvest first it likely won't plant the green peas, but if you set them to plant that will plant all their peas, then harvest whatever is closest from their door.
I think if you set them to harvest first and prioritize peas, they sound harvest peas, plant peas, and then harvest whatever. I think

[radiant heart]

can't prioritize a rss on the assistant 😉

[shell fiber]

I wonder how long he will resist building an architect lodge 😅

[shell fiber]

Oh

[radiant heart]

got 2 farms on "harvest rice" they will either collect or plant rice and then collect anything available and then plant if nothing can be harvested

if assistant was either alway set on peas by default or have the drop down menu sure would be better

my other idea was to give it a tiny like 5% working speed since now it not only harvest but plants too . Just a little kick but nothing to make the large farm obselete

[tall cobalt]

I'm trying to figure out how to taxonomize the power shafts

probably the four horizontal ones go on one page and the high power shaft goes on another?

Maybe I should just give all the suspension bridges just the one page

since their function is basically identical

[marble canyon]

Just a quick question, is this update 5 compatible? I had a quick skim read but couldn’t see anything mentioning it

[tall cobalt]

Not yet

[shell fiber]

I can probably give the assistant the ferns back, this way the prioritize menu would show again

[shell fiber]

There is nothing with the power shafts that is exclusive to this faction, so I think you can save yourself some trouble

[shell fiber]

The only thing that deserves to be said is how they don't actually require any floor space I suppose

[shell fiber]

Working on it 😉
I finished work a bit late today but I'll have time this evening.

[shell fiber]

I made a few entries on the items that can be stored in the glorious storage

Also I didn't check if it works, but I made the large farmhouse and all the flags tolerate up to 1m of water

And maybe @radiant heart can confirm but the advanced sawmill doesn't have a recipe that makes only sawdust, it should make giant half logs, a crap ton of regular logs, or a crap ton of planks

[shell fiber]

Okay, seems i'm just one step away from getting the faction to work on U5

i got it to load without the broken kart, now need to see what's wrong with it.

GN !

[radiant heart]

and that the 1-2 ones are science free

[radiant heart]

if i recall correctly there a 3 receipes, planks, half logs and not sure bout the 3rd one 🤔 will have to look it up

[radiant heart]

3rd one is pure sawdust

[shell fiber]

Whelp I have a typo then 😅

Also bad news : I'm afraid the scripts that allow the tank shower might be kaput 😓

For the clinics and stuff I can find a roundabout way to still make Beaver consume medication to fix themselves, but I don't see that working for the tank showers

That also compromises the bowling alley idea at some degree

[radiant heart]

So U5 messes up the well-beeing managment?

[shell fiber]

Not really, but because it removes the medicine and healer, the script that leads the healer to deliver the med bed is removed, and the script that allows an attraction to consume resources is also dead

[radiant heart]

can't it be reworked with something like filth?

the bonus goes both ways

• clean fur 😉

[shell fiber]

For the medicine the easy fix is that I make medicine heal 0.1 point of injury, but also fill 1 full point of "treatment cool down" that can't be overfilled but decays in 24h, which means that injured beavers still go consume medication for faster recovery every day.

But for the shower to work that way would make a huge mess

[radiant heart]

for both showers or only the tank?

[shell fiber]

One "easy" solution would be to introduce soap as a water-free way to get cleaned

Oh only the tank shower

But I think I'll replace the crappy irrigation tower with a crappy bath

[radiant heart]

made from resin and bramble flower ? 🤣

[shell fiber]

Basically a crappy water container that constantly loses water, if you pause it Beavers can't get cleaned there, if you don't it constantly uses up water.
But at least it irritates a little bit around

[radiant heart]

i like that, anyway at the rate the shitty irrigation consumes water... it almost killed my run early untill i realized the amount to run it

[shell fiber]

Ahah, yeah it's garbage 😅

[radiant heart]

at least with the bath function it's usefull garbage

[shell fiber]

I think disturbedz almost killed his town using 4 of them

It eats up 1.5/hours, so that's as much as 18 live beavers 😅

Thank God he paused some of them

[radiant heart]

yeah, been a dick about that one, didn't say anything 😆

I mean on normal it's ok but on hard... super tower is next in the science list, 48 science to go

[shell fiber]

Victory !

[tall cobalt]

I like the soap idea

IRL, what you do is you get a whole lot of ash from wood you burned, slowly trickle water through it into a bucket (this makes wood-ash lye, aka potash lye), then mix that bucket with an oil. This makes a liquid soap. (Solid soap requires NaOH, soda lye, which requires more complex chemistry to create.) So you can make the alchemist make a liquid soap with sunflower oil and wood, but it would be more accurate to make the wood burner capable of making "wood ash" and use that as input.

Maybe you could make coconut oil in the screw press and have that be needed instead of sunflower oil. Coconuts being required for soap seems completely fine to me - the shower problem is a mid to late game hard mode thing anyway, so a hard mode player having to make a mad dash to the relevant balloon trade also seems reasonable

Alternatively, another junglebeaver trade route for soapnuts or folktail trade route for soaproot

[shell fiber]

One of the ideas I had at some point was to make all buildings using wood or coal as fuel generate ashes as a by-product, then turn that into soap with sunflower oil. But eventually I chose not to because that's literally the only thing it would have been used for and I have enough stuff in this mod like that 😅

[tall cobalt]

Then something like soapnuts seems like the best bet

[shell fiber]

Coconuts would also work for oil but the filth issue is actually a quite early game issue in hard mode since this nonsense is literally 84% droughts

[tall cobalt]

ah

Wood ash in the wood burner may be the only workable answer then

Don't make every building make ash, that seems very silly, but something specific like that could work

Unless you want a waste rock-like situation in early game lol

speaking of, replacing one of the monuments with literally just a giant pile of rocks (ground-only) made out of like 40,000 waste rock would be extremely funny

this is made incredibly unhelpful by making the footprint unreasonably large and the radius of effect unreasonably small

[shell fiber]

My internet is still not functional in my new place so can't upload anything yet, but I'm working on the whitepaws bad water pump.

It is absolutely the worst design you could possible have for this building, and thus is absolutely the best 😅

[shell fiber]

Muahahah

[heavy lodge]

You must change the faction moto back to "water hell" 🤣

[arctic olive]

You changed the color ?

[marble canyon]

https://tenor.com/view/sas-evil-gif-26310062

[tall cobalt]

that looks hilarious. I look forward to it

[tall cobalt]

http://whitepaws.wikidot.com/suspension-bridge

Do I have anything wrong

[tall cobalt]

Also, while messing about with Creative Mode to try to make something tall enough to put the tall windmills on, I stumbled upon an idea for a half buried storage tower: working around the WP's lack of stackable platforms for an Ironteeth-style pilestack by simply not using any

You build a spiral staircase down into the abyss and put industrial piles in. You get a total stack of 7 piles this way

You could theoretically blast it further down, double the amount of staircases you use, and have it for large warehouses, but you are unlikely to have the depth to do so.

Above this you have to rely on complicated suspension bridge shenanigans, but this is pretty good

You can even fill in the floor level with overhang platforms if you're short on space, or abut them directly next to each other to share some of their walkways if even shorter

If you build it this way, it is also the perfect height for an architect's lodge

It's a real pity bridges won't allow power shafts or I might have been able to try for even higher

As it is, 6 is enough to let you easily do H6 windmills, which is actually extremely impressive given that a lack of stackable platforms is possibly the biggest weakness of using WP for this kind of thing

(...though now that I think about it, the sequoia platform is actually not too bad for this kind of bridging... hm. I shall experiment later when I am not in bed)

replace the double platform stairs to the 7th level with equivalent windmill and high power shafts, and you have extremely reliable and tileable bases for H6es and potential for even more flights of fancy

[radiant heart]

with a 2-3 deep lake that you domn't pump or not too much the river bath can do the trick but still got shower tank as safety, didn't hit the 30d ones yet and last 25D dropped me down to 6 beavers... had to drain the irrigations towers to drink to survive 😆

[radiant heart]

so badwater pumpers are bound to get infected? the contaminated thing is bad, basically even with decontamination ( at the actual vanilla rate) a beaver that gets contaminated willl become useless for the rest of his life...

[tall cobalt]

Put a watertight building with its face butted right against the door lol

it works for pit and ladders

But also WP decontamination probably gets to go into the medicine system

special bed or clinic or whatever

[radiant heart]

I just feel that the way WB are intended to be played, it would be knida normal that they have to take a swim in bad water here and there, making decontamination a really early need and clearly can't be as slow as vanilla is atm

[tall cobalt]

aha

[tall cobalt]

I'm looking at wikipedia pages about chelation therapy now lol

Unfortunately, it appears that the least technology-intensive of the chelating drugs, penicillamine, has as its simplest production mechanism purifying the pee of people taking penicillin, and I doubt that pee-purification is quite the tone you want to take with this mod here lol

(They use a different chemical process now)

Hrm. Okay, lipoic acid (ALA) is also a candidate for something that could be reasonably made in a lower-tech setting

It's not a very good candidate but it can technically be purified from a large amount of a food source if you try hard enough

Prussian blue is used for radioactive cesium poisoning, which means it's probably the most relevant one

[shell fiber]

Basically that's the idea, but you should be able to build it so the beaver don't actually get contaminated

[shell fiber]

I didn't poke at it too much yet but that's the idea, I'll make it so you can actually fix them

[tall cobalt]

DTPA is the one that is used for uranium and plutonium poisoning. Interesting.

https://www.who.int/news/item/27-01-2023-who-updates-critical-medicines-list-for-radiation-and-nuclear-emergencies

Or... look. Iodine is supposed to be something you take before radiation exposure to protect your thyroid, so technically administering it afterwards does a lot less good and thus is less realistic, but "iodine" is at least somewhat understandable.

It is found most in shellfish and seaweed, neither of which are easily found in the Timberborn universe. But you can purify it from certain types of underground ore deposits if you are desperate enough.

... It's associated with underground brine.

It's something

You make

Out of mountain salt.

Now that isn't quite how it works, the real thing is gotten out of brine that they get out of the layers above oil wells, but if you can use the alchemist to turn 20-40 units of mountain salt into 1 unit of iodine and then use 1 unit of iodine to make a beaver better in 3-6ish days, then you're close enough to the truth.

[radiant heart]

i like it, don't get me wrong, just the contaminated thing needs a whole rework to make it playable, FT/IT doesn't work

for the vanilla mode it's basically you toucht bad water you have 3 days to become a total peice of trash that won't do anything else for the rest of your time on planet beaver

at least if it killed them faster would help sometimes with pop managment tho 😅

[radiant heart]

Learned over the last few years to not thrust the WHO so let's just make something creative gamewise 🤷‍♂️

[tall cobalt]

Like I said, iodine is close enough to the truth to be getting along with

I may be annoyed about realism, as I have established I like adding realism where it really doesn't belong, but iodine is at least something people are going to understand to have something to do with radiation poisoning.

[tall cobalt]

anyway @shell fiber this is my actual final proposal re: badwater poison treatment in the early enough part of the game to matter

It even interferes with food production in that one way you seem to like doing with useful stuff!

[radiant heart]

Balance note, with the tier 3 irrigation tower, lido is turning a tad less interesting, might wanna drop the science cost a bit to make it more releveant in early-mid game, otherwise it's an easy skip ( what i did )

[shell fiber]

I don't know if I'll make an iodine medication strictly speaking, but that is a pretty sound idea. One option I had was to just rename bad water into polluted water and change the icon but that's not much better.

We shouldn't really stress about realism because... Well you don't really get radiation poisoning by just bathing in contaminated water, skin is specifically here to protect you from the outside after all, you would only need decontamination if you actually drink it, but that wouldn't turn you into an useless slob, it would just give you cancer.

[radiant heart]

Maybe make it go dirty furr super quick?

[shell fiber]

Basically my plan for now is that bad water is turned into some sort of "brain boosting salts" in the alchemist that is then used for science, with the occasional Beaver going insane because of it every now and then (or maybe the alchemist going insane 🤔)

(or just the bad water pumper 🤔)

[radiant heart]

diffrent odds at all lvl?

consumer is the most at risk and production lvls a tad less

[shell fiber]

Could be an option

[radiant heart]

but "crazy makes them produce faster to get more salt to do more salt and soo on..."

[shell fiber]

One thing that is important is that exposure to bad water only turns the beaver insane three days, si the pumper going crazy is not a big issue for me

[radiant heart]

sounds good, my big complain for vanilla is decontamination time, it's just dump, hope they make it more playable

[shell fiber]

What I need to check is : does the random need applier script only work when a recipe is running or are long as the building is active ?

What I wouldn't want is Beavers working on the library getting insane despite not actually working because there is no brain boosting salts

[shell fiber]

How long is it ?

[shell fiber]

Can't do, as far as i have access to, dirty water is just water

[radiant heart]

basically yhe rest of the beaver's life JC tried it out it's non-sense

[shell fiber]

Easy to do better then

I also need to think about what to do with dandelions too. Wolfess fixed the texture for me (somehow it is on grey scale in the v4 data) but I don't know if I'll going to keep everything the same

[radiant heart]

early on it would have to be swapped out for lower tier stuff unless plantable by the forester

[shell fiber]

For now science is kimchi + sunflower + berries + dandelions + water right ?

[shell fiber]

Will be plantable by the forester

[shell fiber]

I didn't forget anything ?

[radiant heart]

so who cares, leave it like that

[radiant heart]

nope, 5 ingredients

[shell fiber]

Yeah I just don't want the science recipe to become unnecessarily bloated

But up to 6 won't take more space in the UI

So I'll just add brain salts and call it a day

[radiant heart]

1 feel like 5 is already a lot

is the salt only gonna be for science?

[shell fiber]

Basically anything that needs a lot of brain power 😅

[radiant heart]

maybe remove seeds since there is so much need for oil/eating, crazy salt could go there

[shell fiber]

So also the ENS and blueprints

[shell fiber]

That's a possibility

[radiant heart]

to keep it down to 5

[shell fiber]

Needing water is certain, berries are still not plantable so I want it in the recipe, dandelions is useless crap otherwise, so the removable ingredients are only kimchi and sunflowers indeed

[radiant heart]

and kimchi is blocked by having haulers so i wouldn't remove it

[shell fiber]

If I make kimchi useless the barrels really loose in usefulness

[radiant heart]

i like how they force ppl into haulers

[shell fiber]

So that has cascading effects

Yeah I think removing sunflower seeds from the science recipe is the best solutions

But I might make the brain salts recipe use a tiny bit though 😅

[radiant heart]

( on another note) Cycle 30, back up to 80~ish after down to 6 beavers not that many cycles ago 😅

[shell fiber]

Sometimes you need lipids to do distillation 😉

[shell fiber]

Kittopia

[radiant heart]

ewww, gonna make a whole other cycle or comething... so like the press not gonna be science locked anymore ? 🤔

[radiant heart]

evaporate the badwater in the wood burner () gonna nerf the mush too if you want to make more)🤔 another way to extract the salt and much more simple

has to be tier one~ish stuff

except kimchy everything is 1 step from collect to turn into science

[shell fiber]

Ooh, actually that gives me a fun idea

If you grow mushrooms on bad water, that should give you weird mushrooms

[radiant heart]

https://tenor.com/view/tell-us-more-willy-wonka-sarcastic-listening-gif-787727691108504837

[shell fiber]

Then you distillate that to make brain salts 😂

That is even more messed up that just boiling off the water part of bad water 😅

[radiant heart]

but how do you "grow them" on bad water? a diffrent receipe in the mush tent?

[shell fiber]

Yeah

[radiant heart]

keep that one for the ENS ? 😉

[shell fiber]

Possible 😅

[radiant heart]

so tier one burnier, tier 3 mush salt?

now tier 2 🤔

[shell fiber]

Why burner ?

Would be alchemist

[radiant heart]

the alchimist for the mush salt for the ENS, but for the librairy just evapore it

[shell fiber]

Or science could just consume weird mushrooms

[shell fiber]

Ahh

No tier one would be weird mushrooms

[radiant heart]

tier 2, for the meca and archi

[shell fiber]

Then yes tier two could be brain salts from the alchemist

Tier three I don't know yet

Small issue is that in my head the kimchi was supposed to be the brain food

[radiant heart]

Then make brain salt part of the kimchy receipe 🤣

[tall cobalt]

today in adventures of me being unreasonably dedicated to realism where it doesn't belong, I made a science district specifically for the ENS that is intended to be a "college town", with library, mech lodge, arch lodge, and also I topped all the local farmhouses with nerdy attics for giggles

[shell fiber]

Should I really bother making the u5 version compatible with saves from u4 ? It seems rather pointless and that's a good opportunity to fix a few things

[radiant heart]

don't think you should have to, it's quite normal with that much change that the save is not compatible, worst case players can revert to U4 with steam to play an older save

[radiant heart]

Yay hamster wheel is effected by walking speed, now getting 6 HP ! 😅

temporary solution to keep the press running untill i can get some flywheels unlocked

[radiant heart]

just a tought, how about having a hauler in the tank house? same size house got 2 so that one could have only one maybe. Just give it a little buff so it is more appealing for players to build it

[shell fiber]

You can have this one 😅

[shell fiber]

Hmm but then the basic lodge becomes essentially worthless because for a tiny bit more resource you can get the same thing with 150 liquid storage

[radiant heart]

it's still quite a rss bumb `tho

[shell fiber]

Having no jobs inside is part of the balance but it's mostly watertight storage =one family

[tall cobalt]

You can technically build a suspension bridge initially on a support, delete the support, and still have the bridge, but that is 1) definitely cheating, 2) doesn't allow for longer spans since you can't build a bridge off the support poles of another bridge, and 3) how would you even get up there afterwards to use it?

[shell fiber]

Pretty sure they would vanish upon save/load

[tall cobalt]

Interestin'

[radiant heart]

from the small lodge with one hauler to the tank house the rss diffrence is ok IMO, but the 2 story with 2 haulers compared to the tank with one hauler i see it would mess up the balance

[tall cobalt]

I'll check in a bit

[shell fiber]

The fact that they can be build is because of a corner case in how the game tells if a building is ready to be build or not, but the presence of the support should be rechecked on loading

[radiant heart]

kinda like blasting the square behind a levee, it will stay there for vanish when you reload the save

[radiant heart]

Maybe had some planks to the tank house 🤔 idk, just tossing it out there. Since it's not really a early game thing would be nice having them just not as storage maybe a bit pricier

[tall cobalt]

Anyway once I have a while and a computer, I believe today is the day I will write up all the Piles

[shell fiber]

Well they are fairly straightforward, maybe you don't really need to elaborate much

[tall cobalt]

yea probs

it's really just the quantity of them being imposing

[shell fiber]

The ft fountain monument cost 12k science ??? Holy crap !

[tall cobalt]

It's an endgame science sink

[radiant heart]

they had to make it pricy, science is turning useless at some point for the FT since they don't use it to boost the bots

[tall cobalt]

To be fair WBO doesn't have endgame yet but

[radiant heart]

Imo "endgame" is once you go past the ENS

[shell fiber]

Yeah makes sense, since science is free

[tall cobalt]

ENS is lategame

[shell fiber]

https://tenor.com/view/kermit-gross-frog-vomit-vermit-gif-23487970

[tall cobalt]

There's still a significant amount of tech afterwards like tree nursery and clinic

[shell fiber]

ENS is the start of late game 😉

[tall cobalt]

yea

Still, you can't turn the library off

and you have the trebuchet and medicine making

which means you have lategame science still in question

[radiant heart]

ENS, treb, clinics can make science and probably some other crazy stuff lapan will come up with, just don't wanna turn off the librairy to get taht +3 books bonus really helps buff up the beavers

[shell fiber]

Good news, the contamination need turning beavers into slobs works exactly as I expected

The part when contaminated water turns them though is pure witchcraft

https://tenor.com/view/elmo-flaming-sesame-street-fire-hell-gif-9446285

Ahahah

I found how to cure the contaminated beavers

Take the carousel

Increase its spinning speed by a lot

Have it be submerged

BEAVER WASHING MACHINE

[radiant heart]

Washing machine for the beavers ! like it

clearly has to be named "washing machine"

[shell fiber]

Probably should be usable to get the clean fur very quick

[radiant heart]

gonna be ready to start testing that out soon, went a bit too agrssive with the expension on hard mode and propably won't survive the next drought without having to resort to cheating mode....😆

or a dying distric 🤔

food is stacked water gonna be the issue

[shell fiber]

Apparently they updated the experimental branch and there's something wrong with the plants, of they just implement a script governing how long each plant can tolerate pollution (which is what I expect) I might be able to upload an experimental update tomorrow

[shell fiber]

Mushroom juice ?😅

[radiant heart]

don't stress about it, will get there when we get there

[radiant heart]

last resort, but with not much HP from a thirsty beaver in the wheel not gonna get much

[shell fiber]

Oh I've just spend all evening poking at stuff, everything seems to work

I'm trying to push more filth in the farm, diseases etc

I can't make custom icons without internet atm

But I could prepare all the specs 🤔

[radiant heart]

with med beds science locked, i would not push to hard on farms for diseases tho. Feel like it will make early game quite a mess and atm balance is quite fair there

[shell fiber]

I was thinking more adding a bit more filth, not disease

I realised in the latest versions the amount of points you get by just swimming in the river was huge

Like in セフ's playthrough he could literally pass the first drought without ever being the bath just because he had one road crossing the river

So I made that weaker, but I also want to make more baths become necessary as population increase

[radiant heart]

sounds good, i saved my ass a few times too in early droughts by just having a path down in the river. I'd say just be carefull not to make it too pointless, want that "trap" for when badtides come around 😉

[shell fiber]

Nothing better that bathing in toxic waste 😅

[radiant heart]

free buzz!

[radiant heart]

Platform upgrade for the fermentation barrel? or just a "covered one" kinda like the tank🤔

[radiant heart]

or just have the normal platform fit on it? not sure if the barrel is too high and would look weird

other thing, i think blades and press axels should use similar storage type, don't get it why one is glorious but the other one reguler. IMO both of those could be regular since they are consumables not so much "core items" like the anvil and med chauldron

similar for drill bits, they are a consumable. Baloons on the other end are more "core" items

[tall cobalt]

experiments with edge cases of the sequoia cradle

[tall cobalt]

http://whitepaws.wikidot.com/giant-sequoia-cradle Did I need to do this much work on edge cases? No. But I had curiosity that wanted settling.

[radiant heart]

🤔 not all 4 but i think you still need more then one , would have to look it back

[tall cobalt]

Yeah, 1 didn't work and I don't think 2 worked?

I can't be bothered to set up the ability to modify the exact hydration levels that finely, so I can't get anything more precise than "not all"

[radiant heart]

have a row of those on my test run that was set up to try it out but i don't remember the final outcome

[shell fiber]

To be honest for me it's a bit of "whatever" but it's true that maybe the sawblade did be stored as a pileable. If only because you would want to store more than five

Problem is that the display system for those is really weird and it would be quite a price of work to do. I'll probably get to it when I'll take care of the balloons and glass display but each of those require a finely tuned 3d model

[radiant heart]

don't stress about it, just little details here and there i find 😉

[shell fiber]

Or I can make them then all fit the glorious storage

That might be actually easier 🤔

[radiant heart]

either way, just a bit on consistancy 😝

[shell fiber]

Actually I was thinking more about a very large storage for the balloons and steel sawblades, at which point there is just a portion of the core items being displayables

[radiant heart]

how about just one big warehouse for the "core stuff" and consumables go to piles/warehouse? it's cool but getting a tad to complex maybe🤔

[shell fiber]

But then what happens to the glorious storage ?

[radiant heart]

"big glorious warehouse"

😉

it's so nice clearly don't wanna lose those

basicaly i just mean to say that blades don't belong in there , simple like that

at least that's the way i see it, just feels more natural that the "glorious" storage is not for consumable that you won't care at some point

[shell fiber]

says the guy who mass-produces chemistry sets

[shell fiber]

But in a way I intended it to be more of a showcase of the stuff your beavers made 😉

[radiant heart]

"just build more"
-someone famous

[radiant heart]

well, stabilized at 18 beavers, didn't realize the super water tower was that consuming. Might pause the swaps for a bit

[shell fiber]

Do you mean the crappy irrigation tower ?

[radiant heart]

no, the lido/toilet/beehive....

it's more then the lodge

[shell fiber]

Ah, but it's still not that much considering how powerful it is

[radiant heart]

yeah, it's fair enough, just didn't think about it and paid the price

back to 70

[radiant heart]

clean fur takes forever to reload in the super lido tower tho... like 6-8h

[shell fiber]

Be careful things might start to collapse eventually 😉😉

If they stay unoccupied for too long

[radiant heart]

for normal it's not a big deal but for hard mode... those pop waves are normal i guess, decay would have to cover let's say min 2 cycles of 38 days before the collapse

[tall cobalt]

anyway I knocked out all the warehouses and piles on the wiki. I'll get the tanks before I log off too

The small covered tank is stackable/flat-topped but does not require Scaffolding in its construction. It is in fact the only such storage building that does not require Scaffolding. Is this intentional?

[tall cobalt]

http://whitepaws.wikidot.com/giant-buried-tank I hope I have explained the "hole in the ground" placement requirement well

and that should be all the tanks

I think I am going to continue work on Industrial and/or Metal tomorrow

oh I forgot the scroll rack and gaz tank. eh w/e I'll also get those tomorrow

Also, I'm sure you've probably had this complained about to you before, but "ananas" are "pineapples" in English

If you want to keep it that way because "pineapple" is a dumb word, I completely understand and will not get in your way, but I wanted to make sure it was intentional and not a Translation Weird

[shell fiber]

So basically never 😅

[shell fiber]

Yes

I felt like it was sturdy enough to be stacked on itself without constraints. Also to make sure players have at least one thing stackable from the start in case they need to pile up stuff to get out of a hole. Something like that

[shell fiber]

It is absolutely intentional 😅

[shell fiber]

Fixing the English language one word at a time

[shell fiber]

I'm actually tempted to make an "easy mode" for this faction.
Juuuuust in case

[radiant heart]

got some storage house that been there for a while, acces path is not getting built super fast, guess those would be gone for sure 😅

[shell fiber]

I agree that's the one thing that is problematic, no way to differentiate this from a cheaty house

[shell fiber]

Also internet still not fixed at home so no upload yet

[marble canyon]

https://tenor.com/view/turu001-gif-5810884644760705183

[radiant heart]

it's ok i guess since i ended up saving my mess on Helix! still got stuff to play with 😉

[shell fiber]

Quick question : how many factories do you build in a quite advanced game? One per recipe it has ?

[radiant heart]

think i had some in double at some point

1 on bits permanently for sure, anvil and chemestry sets were not a dedicated one

[shell fiber]

I guess you might want one for metal blocks and one for drill bits right ? Because the rest is not really consumable

Yeah that's what I was thinking

[radiant heart]

aren't the steel blades made in there or it's the foundry? don't remember that one

[shell fiber]

Factory

[radiant heart]

so that's another one

so 3 min in the end game, think i had 2 for blocks when bots were still in but swapped it on steel blades probably when they went away

[shell fiber]

Oh steel blades sorry I misread

No steel blades are in the foundry

[radiant heart]

probably have 2 on blocks then still 🤣

[shell fiber]

The factory is meant for making utilities mostly

So basically 2 or 3 max

What about mechanical drills ? One of each ?

[radiant heart]

unless metal becomes a consumable in some form 2 is ok

[shell fiber]

I'd assume the best ratio is 2 iron 3 coal

I see

[radiant heart]

2 for coal 1 for iron ( don't think i built the second coal tho since i moved all old mines to coal)

[shell fiber]

Oh

I see

I tend to prefer the wood burner tbh

[radiant heart]

except 1 medium for quartz and one small for salt & saltpeter

[shell fiber]

You probably can raze the rest I think

How many greater cooking tents in a big run ?

Just one ?

And alchemists one per recipe too right ?

[radiant heart]

great tent i was at 2 and propably needed a 3rd one

(with 600~ish pop) maybe even 700 in the end when i dropped in all the new stuff

alchimist at one per receipe, yes but some swaps like if tar and explosives are full those 2 would do something else, didn't keep them on a steady receipe except for the alcool one for the traders ( and 1 is not enough for that but i've left it like that cauz wine production was not quite there too)

Wine cellar is a big one, was up to 5min, maybe more would need to reopen the save to be sure

[shell fiber]

Yeah I figured there would be multiple wine cellars in any given game

Also I game sole thought to what your were saying about the tree nursery having something interesting to plant on a regular basis beyond bamboo

I think banana tree would be perfect

Which, fun fact, are not actual trees but giant grass

Probably would require a sequoias cradle like greenhouse

[radiant heart]

thing is too much food type is part of the chaos i have ( and the seeds not filling up hunger enough)

[shell fiber]

Which would be perfect to give more use to glass

Well I have some stuff in my sleeve that will make Beavers more demanding as game progresses

So if they need more food, they can fill more needs 😉

[radiant heart]

just a tought, can the line where hunger/thirst goes from green to red be moved ? like atm it's about 75% red for 25% green, something closer to the 50/50 would most probably solve the chaos without too much changes on the rest

[shell fiber]

Can be moved but wouldn't solve anything

Or maybe it will

Actually that's a good idea

That makes them stock up more food, so more time before they will drop whatever they are going to get food and water

But ultimately that wouldn't change consumption

Are you sure your chaos is not sure to storage being scattered everywhere ?

Anyway, time to sleep !

GN

[radiant heart]

GN!

[radiant heart]

tried making small storages section with all types of food all over the place, same for water/wine and beer, there is something with setting of the storage tho i noticed too, didn't put my finger on it quite yet but looks like places that "acquire from other" are not prioritized even if right by the beaver to go get a snack, turned all that to normal and it helped a bit eith the wine/beer never getting filled up but food is still and issue

[shell fiber]

Maybe a packing plant like building could fix many things

[radiant heart]

most advanced foods are doing that tho, like deluxe stew is a lot of stuff at once

and the food chaos i had in early game was claerly the seeds, all other food was stacked up but they "Wanted" seeds to so kinda like water issue when everyone is thirsty i suppose, as soon as a seed is available it's everyone runs towards it to get it

[tall cobalt]

At the water chaos point the remedy really is to just grow more seeds

[radiant heart]

easier said then done, my "testing run" got maybe 4-5 tiles of ground left available on the whole map

Grape production to make enough wine is, i think the biggest thing i'm growing, right after spadderdock

[shell fiber]

Try to give yourself a ton of sunflower seeds with cream mode to see if the food chaos settles down

[radiant heart]

that's waht i kinda did on Helix, made a seed plantation with 2 farms, one assistant and a large farmhouse, all they do is seeds on a quite large field.

Chaos went down a bit but it's still early and don't have much food options, want me to try it with the test run one ?

[shell fiber]

Yeah the on that has no land space anymore

[shell fiber]

Ah, I see that stews fill up thirst too... I'm worried that can cause chaos in the beaver behaviour 🤔

That would deserve some testing

[shell fiber]

I don't have any update 4 working on hand but if you feel like trying stuff, you can go in goodspecification.deluxestew.original (same with "greenstew" and "chestnutstew") and delete / comment out the thirst values to see how it affect things ?

[shell fiber]

Nice !
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/888491376143134760/1162573611165552681/DSC_0337.jpg?ex=653c6e0c&is=6529f90c&hm=c5f7794afbac70c20b4640692d530729cf39ec327700fd15b04550f3c0791851&

[radiant heart]

bigger gaz tanks?

not sure if it's intended but looks like nerdy attic give the farms under the ability to plant green peas 🤣

[empty brook]

I had 5 for that one playthrough

1200 population beaver settlements needed 6 Great Cooking Tents to keep them all fed

[shell fiber]

Internet Fixed !

[shell fiber]

thats... a lot 😅

[empty brook]

That's like a minimal population colony for me. I'm usually at 600 meat bag beavers and another 2000 bots

My PC hates me I'm pretty sure lol

[radiant heart]

could try and push that far but i'm on a med map, on a large one 1k is quite easy

[radiant heart]

last or second to last IT run i did had about 1k bots serving 10 meatbags in the end, will never know how far that could go, it's an old U3 thing

[rain hull]

i update your mods at latest version which need logstair at lates version too. but it crash when logstair mod active

[tall cobalt]

I was going to complain about scaffolding, made of two different pile resources, not also being a pile resource for realism reasons, but then I realized you would need a 3D model for it and decided I'll just think of it as being like flatpack furniture

[bronze ingot]

@shell fiber HI. I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THIS INFORMATION: since you introduced the clinic, it has been almost impossible for me to continue a game. Even by setting the creative mode, even by setting a 1% chance of injury, the beavers get sick after a short time, stopping working, I don't have enough time to be able to build everything necessary to create the drugs, it takes a long time, there are too many hardworking. I can no longer finish any game, the only solution is to totally exclude the possibility of injury, precluding a good part of the game. Any strategic suggestions? Am I doing it wrong?
Thank you

[radiant heart]

did you build the 3 types of med beds? if the injuries are "minor" it willl help heal a lot of beavers even if you don't have a clinic yet

[shell fiber]

I don't know if the injury chance setting in the options will affect the chance of sickness and burns. But I don't understand, are all of your Beavers getting sick in a completely abnormal manner ? It's normal for Beavers to get sick every now and then, but that shouldn't stop your colony from working

[shell fiber]

Need to look into it

[shell fiber]

Yes it's an IKEA package 😅

[shell fiber]

Make sure you are not using the update 5 experimental version with upgrade 4 waterbeaver mod

[bronze ingot]

@shell fiber @radiant heart yes, I have built all types of beds, as you can see, because in the previous version, it was enough to stall! not now.. they all get sick at the same time, while in the other version, if I indicated a low percentage, they got sick sporadically and very few at a time

[shell fiber]

how on earth does that happen 😐

[bronze ingot]

and I'll tell you more, I'm in creative mode, I can add all the beavers I want, well... even the new ones get sick, so not even the beds are enough anymore

[shell fiber]

you are on the latest version right ? you didn't build any of the hidden "doom statue" or "death statue" right ?

and you said you modified something with the chance of injury setting ? try to put it back to default, maybe there is a weird bug with it

[bronze ingot]

I have the up 4 version, I'm not even aware of these statues

[shell fiber]

good 😅

they are stuff i made to test the disease and injury mechanic

not supposed to be build

at the moment i have really no idea what's going on to be honest.

[bronze ingot]

I don't have anything new that you built, I checked on your site today, it tells me that the version I'm using is the latest one that is available on your site

[shell fiber]

the best i can tell you is to try to start a new game with default settings and see if new beavers still immediately get sick/injured

then try to find what setting caused that to happen

i'm suspecting the "injury chance" thing though

[bronze ingot]

I have already tried to leave a higher percentage, the result was even worse, with a percentage of 1%, it let me play for 1 hour, if I set for example 75%, I play for 10 minutes and it's all over

I'll try to set 0% now, let's see what happens and I'll inform you. I wanted to ask you, did you add anything new, the construction for the redwoods? I don't have it, I can't even find it in the mods.. or does it still have to be inserted?

[empty brook]

In my previous playthrough I did notice beavers seemed to ignore all medical beds, but that was update 2.26 and I have played a current u4 file of WB. Could this be what it's occurring?

Maybe follow a beaver from injury to death. None of mine used a medical bed, medicine went unused

[bronze ingot]

@shell fiber the choice of the percentage of injury, it works, I confirm it, I started a new game, setting it to 0% and no one gets sick, I can continue easily, but at this point, the clinic will be completely useless, I could build it just for beauty , consequently also all the buildings used to create the various medicines. So, either 0% no sick people, or from 1% to 100% they all get sick at the same time without a solution, the medical bed alone does not alleviate the situation

[shell fiber]

Well you're in uncharted territory here, I have no idea what the percentage of injury does to the game so I really would not advise touching it, the default values seen to be just fine as far as I've tested.

I have a lot of buildings all having various chances of injury and various dive rolling intervals, some of them for example rolling for 0.1% chance of something really bad happening every 1.8 hour or whatever. So if you change the injury chance value for all I know you may actually be bumping up the accident rate by ten times.

There's also a chance that one of my buildings is rotten and causes excessive injuries but no one reported that yet.
I can try to check this evening but I'm not home now. Is there any building that seem to trigger diseases appearing ?

[shell fiber]

Also just to confirm you have no other mods in addition to the dependencies?

[shell fiber]

The red wood (giant logs) are obtained by cutting down giant sequoias, they are planted by the tree nursery and need a giant sequoia cradle

[tall cobalt]

Okay, not only did I write articles for the three water wheels, each one gets customized tips for use

[empty brook]

Does anyone know if optimized housing works in u5?

[shell fiber]

Optimized housing works in u5 , but not the waterbeaver mod (yet)

[tall cobalt]

Apparently you can build metal platforms over the solar array without compromising its power output. This seems... weird. Is this something not worth fixing?

[empty brook]

Ty good sir

[tall cobalt]

2.10 bug report: Repeated error in BepInEx window saying "The given key Lapantouflemagic.LitteralDoublePlatform.DisplayName was not present in the dictionary."

This does not harm functionality but produces a lot of red text.

Gravity battery wiki page text I am writing: "Strictly speaking, the only part of the building that needs support is a 2x1 part in the back. You can physically fit up to 2-height buildings underneath the "bundle" part, if you wish to render the building useless."

And that's all of the Power tab!

I'm going to go back and try to pick at some of the others now.

[bronze ingot]

I understand, later when I get home, I will do this further check and confirm for you. thank you for now

[tall cobalt]

crossed all the Crops off the list, though I'll have to go back and check over their uses later

[radiant heart]

same thing as sunflowe is happening with juice and thirst, guess it's game mecanic that beavers go by default to the one thing that fills in more needs so if production is not up to the size of the colony, it creates chaos....

[shell fiber]

Hmm... 🤔

Well the solution is clearly to make more of everything 😅

But more seriously, yes I need to think about this

I'm making a table with all the Beavers needs and what fills them, hopefully that will help me come up with some solution

Probably the solution is simply more foods that fulfill multiple needs.

Like a seed and chestnut onigiris, or some cereal bar or something

An other option would be some sort of food court where beavers can go an fulfill food needs, but that provides no hunger

[radiant heart]

is juice also nerfed on thirst kinda like seeds on hunger?

[shell fiber]

neither is nerfed though 🤔

[radiant heart]

had in mind at some point you said seeds fill up less hunger when they eat those 🤔

[shell fiber]

no, not particularily

[radiant heart]

other thing i think it's kinda like when water is low and there is not enough to fill in tirst let's say. so they go for a sip but it doesn't fill up, same with any ressource that you don't have enough made🤔 that means i'd need like 2-3 presses pressing berries to have the chaos stop, one is not enough for 150 beavers

[shell fiber]

yeah it's likely that they would do that, but probably not during their worktime

[radiant heart]

it happens during work time or at least it feels like it

[shell fiber]

basically the way i understand it, is that as long as they can work, they should stay at work, unless they have a need in the negative. but maybe there is something specific to the vital needs groups, i should check

[radiant heart]

they leave work for water that one i'm quite sure ( when thirsts gets red)

[shell fiber]

yep

[radiant heart]

i'd assume the same for hunger

[shell fiber]

same for hunger

but they shouldn't for berry juice

unless they are thirsty

[radiant heart]

but if they are thirsty they will go for juice before water?

had something similar with wine and beer on the testing run, cellars were in one corner of the map and everyone was running over there to have a sip even if there was water all over the placed. Swapped the fuel/catalyst tanks to wine/beer when bots got the boot and it helped

like they are not smart enough to go for the closer thing, they will go for one that fills in more needs i suppose

[shell fiber]

i made that thing

it mostly works

(warm storage)

[radiant heart]

"mostly" 🤣

it's cool but a stew can be eaten cold 😉

fried rice i get it, it's bad cold tho

[shell fiber]

there's some weird crap happening when you try to give yourself some of its contents

also braised cabbage

and all the stews

except the awful one

it costs 100 clay to build, so you have a very good reason to keep the clay pit running

[radiant heart]

does it consume logs to keep it warm?

[shell fiber]

and it burns i thing 4 logs/day

yep

i also made all the factories use the "toggleable reciepe" thingy

[radiant heart]

could there be 2 receipe for heat and have one on dust too? 🤔

[shell fiber]

nope

it's clunky enough as is

but in theory i think it could be done

[radiant heart]

like atm on my hard run i'm burning the dust, shroom farms are exploding with shrooms and the dust is pilling faster then i can make paper/explosives

[shell fiber]

but you will need sawdust for weird shrooms now, maybe best not burn it

[radiant heart]

that's gonna be a future me on U5 problem

[shell fiber]

do you have 20 log gnawing stations again ? 😅

[radiant heart]

nope, 2 and a mill, ( mill run 20~30% of the time tho) need to unlock flywheels and batteries

[radiant heart]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-more-gif-21856591

[shell fiber]

whelp, time to make paper and get that second library set going !

or just make comic books i guess

😉😉

[radiant heart]

need to finish my reservoir first, really stretching it to the limit with the 25+ droughts

need way more pumping before getting into expension

[radiant heart]

that's awesome !

[shell fiber]

only the mushroom grower doesn't have it yet (and copist / artist etc)

because i would need to make two icons for fast / slow mush.growth

and i can't be bothered atm

[radiant heart]

a turtle and a rabbit ! that's pretty universal i suppose !

[shell fiber]

i also need a visual texture for fried rice and braised cabbage

[shell fiber]

yeah that's what i thought too

i just hope the building game won't be picky with loading the icons

sometimes it does when they are not attached to a real thing

[shell fiber]

this think is particularily good because there is no longer a "no reciepe selected"

hence whatever is first becomes the default

soooooo much better for all those damn kimchi barrels

although i guess you might prefer methane

oh crap it's already 2am

my new pc setup is so comfy i didn't see time fly

i have 3 screens now 🙂

[radiant heart]

GN i guess !

[shell fiber]

yep !

GN

[radiant heart]

(is there a U5 WB uploaded yet or still too unstable?)

[shell fiber]

Oh it's stable (except maybe for the warm storage) but o have yet to finalize the beaver decontamination process

I want to make the beaver washing machine, but I feel it would be nicer as a mid game thing (possibly blueprint replacing the mechanical water pump that no one uses anyway)

*mid game

So I need an early game solution, maybe

[radiant heart]

Make the shower tank do it?

[shell fiber]

I also have still no clue about what to do with the bad water season

[shell fiber]

It's broken

[radiant heart]

Too bad cauz i't cool, didn't use it as much as i tought honestly tho

[shell fiber]

Yeah I showed it in the main chat hoping some devs might like it but right now its dead

[radiant heart]

2 drowned baths that get "undrown" later in the drought also do the trick

just need a deeper zone not too far

[shell fiber]

I'll have to rework the medicine etc, next update will be very experimental 😉

[radiant heart]

Yay game crashes !

😅

[shell fiber]

But I'll make the leaky bath that will be good enough

[radiant heart]

is it possible t make the river bath tolerate more water above, could be cool to have a nice bath by the tall bamboo deep underwater!

[shell fiber]

Oh actually I meant more in terms of "oh there's a big hole in the game" type of thing 😅

[shell fiber]

Well beavers need to breathe 😅

Oooh

Idea for a faction !

[radiant heart]

fishy beaver !

[shell fiber]

Beavers who DIE of they get dry

(also known as frogs)

Okay I need to sleep

GN

[radiant heart]

GN

[empty brook]

the quality of your fried rice might be low, fried rice is like pizza, you should be able to eat it cold

[radiant heart]

feels a bit much now that i think of it 🤔

[radiant heart]

Cold Pizza 🤮 unless i'm super drunk at the end of the party it's at least getting a minute in the microwave

[empty brook]

i mean there is a difference between pizza and cold pizza

but cold pizza is acceptable if there is no microwave or heating source

[radiant heart]

really depends on the amount of drugs/alcool, sober it's not happening

[empty brook]

funny, must not really like pizza then

you just think you do

[radiant heart]

i like it but not cold 😝

feels like in the US cold pizza is quite normal tho.

[empty brook]

maybe....lol

[bronze ingot]

@shell fiber Hi, I confirm that, as you suggested, it is better not to change the injury percentage, but to leave it with a setting between 75 and 100%. They still get sick quickly, but it was 1 beaver that started it, and not the entire population. However, in order to guarantee the care necessary for the clinic, starting at least with "food and care", the quantity of buildings to create the various ingredients and plantations with attached buildings are so many as to require a greater quantity of hours of play, compared to at the rate at which they get sick. At a certain point in the game, when we have barely managed to create everything necessary for the first part of the clinic, everyone starts getting sick, with all kinds of ailments, eh nothing... I won't be able to finish this game either.

[bronze ingot]

it's all I have

[radiant heart]

"more platforms" work with the WB? should not

@shell fiber is there a way to lock the buildings that would do "major" injuries behind the appropriate clinic so you sure have one by that pooint since it's not very clear where the injuries happen ?

Like require the specific medicine as part of building material? 🤔

[bronze ingot]

do you mean these?

[radiant heart]

nope, more platform mod gives taller ones

that's the basic ones for WB

[bronze ingot]

ah! I understand! no, they don't work in this faction

[radiant heart]

be sure to disable at least the mods that are not compatible, could cause some unknown issues

[shell fiber]

There's a bunch of mods that seems not compatible or that I just don't really know, but nothing I imagine while cause such a mess

Probably would try to reproduce the issue to see if it's a game issue or a mod issue

[radiant heart]

i don't have the issue on my actual run but i'm not in the later game stuff with a risk of major issues... i think

And here it comes, first 30 drought, sadly the reservoir was not done... fingers crossed

[radiant heart]

well, only lost 33% of my folks! if next one is not a 30 again i should reboom nicely

pumping power is solved at least, once the upgrades are in i think 200~250 gonna be manageable

went back from almost none to 4k in 4 days!

[tall cobalt]

How fast are gears consumed by the paper mill exactly?

[radiant heart]

idk, I use the tent ones since they look better and don't need power 😆

gotta admit beeing locked behind the factory makes it a bit shitty but it works

[tall cobalt]

I'm writing it up for the wiki

[radiant heart]

i know, just can't help much so i say stuff .. can STFU if you prefer 😉

[tall cobalt]

don't worry, I'm just obsessed with getting all the information lol

[radiant heart]

https://tenor.com/view/cheers-drinking-cartoon-gif-14140170460864096311

[shell fiber]

Need to look it up

[radiant heart]

@shell fiber quick one from the back of the class:

would it be that hard to make the deep pump 6 like the IT or maybe even more ?

i feel that with badwater gonna need some massive reservoir/pumping power

[shell fiber]

That was the point 😉
Making the good paper mill more relevant by making the primitive one more difficult to scale up

[radiant heart]

I hate you but i like it 😉

one anvil away from factory, just need to store a few blades

[shell fiber]

I'll pretty sure the deep one is literally the IT pump

But I is raised one level for the house part

[radiant heart]

yeah, so it's 5 from ground not 6... the "house part" is the power of that faction so.. idk, can we just say the housing part is in the top?

just remembered you dais something about beeing shit to extend it like the regular one back then, maybe nowadays it's just and easy quick fix

[shell fiber]

But because the house is watertight too, plus the upgrade, means you can pump from a dam that has two more layers of water than what the IT would allow for

Also changing it so that the pump stands lower would require to rework the upgrades too

But generally speaking I want to complete the late game, I probably will only ever change the early game if something is really broken

[radiant heart]

so maybe a tier 3 exclusive pump?

at that point it could use coal or something to purify bad water too 🤔

like 10 deep or if the is a way to make it "to the bottom"

something is messed up with priority on farms, even if set to plant, will gather seeds before planting rice unless i prioritize the rice

[shell fiber]

maybe

i had some ideas in that direction

but that may become merged with the nuclear power plant

note that there is aquifer pumps too

although i think the small ones might be a bit weak for the investment they represent

[marble canyon]

Is this available in u5 now? I get there’s still a lot to do with it but looking forward to trying it out

[radiant heart]

not yet

[tall cobalt]

Not until the decontamination system gets worked out, I believe

[shell fiber]

getting closer to it, got to strike off stuff from my checklist

i fixed/improved that mess

also definitely the best way to treat bad water contamination

(yes it's a jail 😅)

also i reworked the warm storage so that it is no longer buggy, but now it is in two parts (base consumes wood, top is actual storage)

[thorn dune]

cage the zom-beavers 😄

[shell fiber]

next really important i think before being able to push the update is completing the sickness and injuries, which shouldn't take long

[shell fiber]

actually i'm wondering, should i make it so that it heals the beavers, but they still consume food and water, or should i make it so that they don't consume food and water, but don't actually heal the beavers

both are ultimately better than leaving them roam around all day eating your food and not healing on their own.

of course later you will have an efficient way to heal them with a "beaver washing machine"

which may or may not be an even more ridiculous contraption than anything before

[radiant heart]

so let them die of thirst/hunger or heal them using ressources ?

[tall cobalt]

I think the cage should just be a cage and any healing needs to be another tech level up from there

[shell fiber]

Not really leave to die

[tall cobalt]

More like stasis?

[shell fiber]

Not really either

Just... Jail

Don't o don't know how to make them consume no food without it being weird

Right now it a jail but the description says they are just too polite to escape (it's made of wood after all)

[tall cobalt]

incredible

[shell fiber]

But at the moment they still will get out to get food and water I believe

[radiant heart]

just to be sure i get it right, the Jail is for contaminated beavers while we wait for the washing machine?

[shell fiber]

(needs testing)

Yes

The washing machine will be a mechanical building with blueprint

[radiant heart]

blue one i suppose?

[shell fiber]

Yes

Green is architect

[radiant heart]

g2g, later 👋 ( and GN)

[shell fiber]

GN

[shell fiber]

Also, there is literally nowhere to go 😅

[distant wigeon]

Shouldn't the ladder be on the outside?

[shell fiber]

Arguably, but then they wouldn't be able to go get food 😊

[radiant heart]

Crazy idea, how about awefull stew is made with bad water instead of clean one and actually cleans contamination ( but you still get the yuk) 🤔

[distant wigeon]

Other beavers climb the ladder and throw the food down to them!

[shell fiber]

I would like to do that, but that would require scripts that no longer exist 😥

Specifically the med bed thing

[radiant heart]

can't the old script be used in the mod directly to make it happen?

[shell fiber]

I don't know if that's possible, maybe @kind spire knows 😉

[radiant heart]

i'd guess yes

[shell fiber]

I'm watching disturbedZ's playthrough, and maybe you're right about sunflowers seed being always low 😅
between the fried rice, punpkin chips, nitroglycerin, tar and beavers eating the seeds, we need an absolute crapton 😅

maybe one solution could be to make the oil more generic (like vegetal oil) and add a new crop that is more efficient to make oil than sunflower 🤔

or i could just give a small bumb to existing sunflowers, wouldn't hurt too bad if they produced 3 seeds instead of two

[shell fiber]

hmm

okay, for now i gave them a tiny +15% production speed, from 2seeds ever 5.1 days to 3seeds every 6.7 days.
also the higher yield per harvest shaves some harvesting time

but gotta go now 🙂

[radiant heart]

peanut oil, plus , if i'm not mistaking, they are pretty resistant to drying 🙂

[radiant heart]

think there is something about gathering time, can you do something about that instead?

[radiant heart]

Have a good one, gonne hit the bed soon

and also watching Disturbedz's playtrough, it's funny how i feel the struggle of the first time around, fun~ish memories

[tall cobalt]

lmao jc the beard screwing up giant buried tank placement

[radiant heart]

inhis defence, it doesn't say anything about the 4X5 area it covers, only the 3x3 hole, was fun to watch tho

[shell fiber]

The description does say the trusses must be stuck in ground or heavy stackable

But apartment I missed a couple of his videos, will watch this evening

[shell fiber]

Actually now that I can use blender correctly... 🤔

I can probably make it 3 deep, and I always wanted a bottom access one that you can stick in an alcove in a cliffside

[tall cobalt]

Yeah I wrote about it on the wiki and everything

I trust that given the incompatibility the new version of the mod will be version 3.0?

The wiki pages do note which version they were written for so a major version update will be visible there

[tall cobalt]

ah shite there's a way to state which pages are parent of which pages

looks like I have a good hour of work to do lol

[storm gulch]

The thing that messed me up, I think, is that when I was playing off-camera to test stuff I had placed a giant tank with the doorway facing a long path and hadn't had anything next to it on the other three sides. But in the video I put the hole in a completely different location that was bounded on two sides instead of just the one with the path

[shell fiber]

No worries, I take great care in making everything slightly inconvenient (I took the concept from oxygen not included 😉) so it's normal to hit a corner with your toes every now and then 😅

[tall cobalt]

The entire mod is built so that nothing quite fits together perfectly; that's part of what makes it a fun time

Also I kinda got sidetracked learning that pumpkin chips are a real thing, they're how you make the skin of a pumpkin edible after you make pie and roast the seeds

and with that I have completed all the food that comes out of the cooking tent

cooking house next

[kind spire]

Quite often, yes it does work. It does depend what other scripts have been changed in the update, but yeah generally you can do that

[tall cobalt]

http://whitepaws.wikidot.com/early-game-tips I probably did not need to do this lol

Anyway I wrote up a bunch of food today

[tall cobalt]

In idiomatic English, the thing the Polarbeavers want should be "hearty food", not "stuffy food"

[shell fiber]

oh, also i'm a little late in your videos, but in case you haven't done it yet, the latest update for V4 is stable (2.2.10)
it has a bunch of fixes, better subgroups etc. most notably for you there is a decent irrigation tower that would help you nicely i think.

[shell fiber]

yeah but we're talking awful stew here, so maybe that's appropriate ? i don't know english is not my native language

[storm gulch]

I'll try to remember to update to this before the next video. Thanks!

[tall cobalt]

No, it really is hearty. "Stuffy" is never used to describe food

[shell fiber]

okay 👍

[thorn dune]

stodgy for bad food

[shell fiber]

okay, i finished my shenanigans with the pit and ladder tower

also made the giant buried tank much more giant

now stores 4000

and need a 3x3x3 hole

but there is also a bottom entrance variant

reworked the bad water pump to be more compact

oh, crap, already 2am again

enought for today

GN

[silver phoenix]

https://tenor.com/view/nice-gif-21458880

[tall cobalt]

I need to figure out how to write up balloon trade

Mechanically it is just a weird production building, but

I suppose that the trading balloon submenu can just be the one page

Are the beavers employed in the landing pad normal haulers or balloon only haulers?

[shell fiber]

Normal haulers

[tall cobalt]

http://whitepaws.wikidot.com/balloon-trade

[shell fiber]

i've been itching to rework those damn landing pads for a looooong time

new is the left one

old one on the right

much less blockyness

less haulers

looks a bit taller

also, balloons now have a "balloon" aura that gives +2 happiness

so as to give incentive to scatter them around, and not bunch them all up together

n'est-ce pas @radiant heart ? 😉😉

[shell fiber]

everything seems in order...for now

[radiant heart]

who reads those ? 😆

[radiant heart]

that's cool, now just needs a connector that can put the bottom entrance one on top of the top entrance one ! 😝

[radiant heart]

https://tenor.com/view/crying-happy-but-sad-face-gif-19422780

[radiant heart]

i like that, also, a question, about the "baloon ride" happiness, is it like the shell necklece that they only need one ride in theyr life to be happy about it or it has a decay?

( is it just visual work or there is also a buff in production ?)

[shell fiber]

don't remember, but i wanted to make a balloon that just takes beavers on a small trip above town, might have to scrap it though

actually let's remove it for now

[radiant heart]

that would be cool tho, just aminiature balloon pad that goes around the map and come back

not sure if it would be simpler a bit but just have another baloon that can be placed on top of heavy stackables and do those "joyrides"

[shell fiber]

well what the balloon goes on top of is hardly the problem (and it would definitely be just a regular landing pad)

it's more about how to i make the beaver actually ride the balloon and not jump off midway in the trip

which would thankfully or not teleport them at the landing pad

also it's not super interesting to make a stationnary flight

but if i make it go in any direction and beavers on it go out of bounds... well crash

i should have done that a long time ago

[radiant heart]

can the path be limited to a certain range around the pad to make it impossible to go to far and crash ? for the "joy ride" model

[radiant heart]

that billboard needs to be massive to be readable tho, police is not that large on that

[shell fiber]

it's quite high rez

if you get close it's perfectly readable

update incomming !

don't get too attached to those new playthought though 😅

[heavy lodge]

Have you tested with Flood mod ? 🤣

[radiant heart]

i'd say don't make it the "live version" tho

[shell fiber]

oh i forgot to untick that thing

[shell fiber]

not there yet 😅

whelp, it's almost 2am

might go punch the bed

with my face

[heavy lodge]

Bed time 🛏️

[radiant heart]

GN

[shell fiber]

no kaboom yet ?

[radiant heart]

need to update to experimental first

[shell fiber]

oh right, you're still playing on u4

yeah

no worries

[radiant heart]

don't have time for that ATM, probably this evening

[shell fiber]

whenever you like

i probably won't have much time this WE

[radiant heart]

gives me time to crack up the shell and see if it's a hot mess 😉

[shell fiber]

I think it should be stable

But the balancing of injuries diseases and burns...

[tall cobalt]

Do the "cursed scrolls of forbidden magic" do anything?

[thorn dune]

I'm missing something obvious here, what makes a water tight dam home flood? water on top or the entire entrance tile being completely full of water?

or either?

[thorn dune]

entirely flooded entrance tile, this is fine

[tall cobalt]

The entrance tile specifically

[thorn dune]

are the pumps supposed to list a maximum depth of 2 but give no production unless the tile immediately below them has water? (update 5)

[shell fiber]

Not yet
That's a leftover from what I intended for making bots. But that went through the drain

Might find an other use someday

[tall cobalt]

It's supposed to be visually equivalent to the depth of the straw, if that helps any

[thorn dune]

think it might be wrong but as it's my first time playing it I can't be sure

[shell fiber]

Not sure what you're taking about, water pumps are largely unchanged

[tall cobalt]

So like, so long as the "straw" is in water you're fine

[thorn dune]

no there's something else going on. I guess that worker wasn't at work during work hours due to starvation / disease or something, my bad sorry

[tall cobalt]

Use the double green arrow to prioritize staffing mission critical infrastructure such as pumps and farmhouses

[thorn dune]

thanks 😉

no cheating! I just need to uh , finish the district before I let everyone move in ok?

while I'm talking again, the power requirement mixed with the submerged requirement on the bad water pump, without any tech to get vertical power shafts, is brutal

I think my confusion was the pump doesn't pump out the full two levels below it, it leaves a little bit remaining without pumping it dry

[shell fiber]

If that can help, you can always let the bad water pump be entirely submerged

Oooh I forgot to write this in the description

[thorn dune]

it would have if I'd realised the trouble I was in before I built it yeah

[tall cobalt]

It works underwater?

[shell fiber]

The bad water pump (and only this building) can be completely submerged

Whelp, that's what I get for writing descriptions at 1am

😅

[shell fiber]

It's actually intended to

But that cause the beavers living inside to get contaminated soo 🤐

[distant wigeon]

Unless you have bots, of course...

[shell fiber]

Also, I'm close to rolling out the script that causes buildings to collapse of they stay unoccupied for too long, so soon that won't work either 😅

[thorn dune]

everyone is moved in now! it just took a while to finish

[shell fiber]

Screenshot ? 😉

[thorn dune]

you don't believe me 😮

[shell fiber]

What map is it by the way ?

[thorn dune]

including extra "actually works" bad water pump, and yes the original is paused but as I wasted all my dynamite making the hole for it this is not cheating at all

[shell fiber]

Nah I do, it's just out of curiosity. It's always good feedback to see how people play 😉

[thorn dune]

terrace valley, badwater version. I've disabled badtides, but I do that anyway in vanilla too.
no idea how to deal with it in this without flood gates, probably just let everyone die

[shell fiber]

Oof

This map is hard

It's the one where your have barely a trickle of fresh water right ?

[shell fiber]

😭

To be honest I have no idea how to deal with them either 😅

[thorn dune]

I've done it in vanilla ok. climbing up the hill to get more water was surprisingly easy even with the log stairs
yes that one

the plan is to build a new district up there to deal with it

there have been some extremely wild population swings. I thought I'd lost at one point but survived the drought with 11 left

[shell fiber]

Even in vanilla that was quite the pain...

[shell fiber]

I think normal Waterpumps still work in half-polluted water right ? In that case badtides is just a pain for a little after the badtide is over

And the bad water pumps should eat up some of the pollution

So I figured it would be fine...ish

[thorn dune]

yes but badtide is 100% bad so it won't help there

it very quickly takes over a water store

[shell fiber]

Are you making bad shrooms to use it up ?

[thorn dune]

not sure what you mean. the brain stimulating mushrooms?

[shell fiber]

Yeah

[thorn dune]

if I could pump it sure but like I say I only have the static badwater sources, the badtides are disabled, and it's tiny so I still haven't got the badpump set up to work with the water wheel

[shell fiber]

Ooh

[thorn dune]

maybe on this map with the trickle of water you could actually pump the badwater fast enough to use it up 🤔

I just realised this design is going to force the water so the wheel doesn't spin. argh

[shell fiber]

Maybe the bad water pump design could be improved

I'll need to test myself 😅

[thorn dune]

I really can't tell this is a horrible map and settings for it. someone else will have to try with something normal

I think it would be v hard on vanilla maps with 1 tile deep rivers too though

yeah I know I'm suffering alpha pain here

[shell fiber]

To be honest I thing the map is even harder with the bad water.
In the u4 version you could dam of a small plain near the start and get it to fill up to make a large rice paddy, but now instead of water coming from the left side cliff you have bad water so you can't even do that anymore

[thorn dune]

yeah I did that in vanilla update 5 attempt but with waterbeavers I don't think it's viable 🙂

as you say the badwater there hurts

ok I redirected the water and now i have Too Much. and it's 2am so I'm done for tonight.
great mod, thanks for making it. my favourite building so far is the Pit + Ladder Lodge (liquid storage) because it absolutely saved me during a drought and blocks a huge amount of river.

[shell fiber]

If you only want to block off water the regular liquid storage house is slightly better 😉

Easier to access too

[radiant heart]

@shell fiber Love that one!

and "update" crashes as usual...

Need a tier 2 of that for hard mode runners 😉 JC gonna do one most probably

And game crash after closing mod manager when download worked...

[shell fiber]

Tier 2 of what ?

I wouldn't recommend starting a new streaming playthrough just yet, I might change a bunch of things early on

[radiant heart]

and crash when doing "start new game"

[radiant heart]

and nope, not happening i guess i'll do a little more Helix over the week-end, wanna at least build the ENS before calling it done

[radiant heart]

the achievement

[empty brook]

It is? One of my u4 runs for WB is in terraces I got that 1 little spring bringing water absolutely everywhere on that map

It makes power easy once you got a steady stream of materials

I think the starting area is either 11 or 12 allowing you to put the 12H windmills at ground level late game

Ya, know, when you end up burying literally everything

[thorn dune]

it took a long time for me to get update 5 versions of every other mod. I had trouble with it switching versions for some mods so I had to do it manually and rename the directories + edit manifest files so mod manager understood what version they were

[thorn dune]

I admit defeat, if the water wheel floods I don't see how you can do this bad water pump

you literally need bad water above the level of the building to pump it, and you need the wheel to be on the same level as the building as you have no vertical shafts, and you need an unbroken connection for the power, so the level of badwater will always fill the waterwheel and flood it. I don't see any buildings with multiple power connectors to use as a dam to transfer it

[thorn dune]

ok fine I eventually got it, I don't think there's another way though and it seems really harsh to gate everything through one solution. I had to dev mode in dynamite and terrain to get the layout. I'm not sure the original 6 would have been enough even if I hadn't spent them on things that didn't work

don't ask how many contaminated beavers I have

[shell fiber]

yeah the first variant of the bad water pump had a power shaft plug in the front too

if you want to try, go in the factionspecification.waterbeaver.json file (in specifications) find the 'water stuff' segment and replace "SmallBadwaterPumpWP" by "BadwaterPumpWP"

and see if it's less nightmarish

but i also would like to know how tempted you'd be of using these houses in random places to block of water instead of pumping bad water

[shell fiber]

that will give you the previous variant, but i felt it was too big and too bulky

[thorn dune]

if it has power on two sides I think that's very tempting tbh

[radiant heart]

i tried a bit yesterday but couldn't make it work, guess i have to install everything manually from mod.io, is that what i understand?

[thorn dune]

in the end only billboards and the storage one messed up for me, I couldn't manually select the newest version in mod manager and have it install correctly

so I had to install those manually

but I did it inside the modmanager named directories so it didn't get confused

[radiant heart]

i'll give it another try later then, feel like playing a it atm not messing around with updates/downloads and whatnot

[thorn dune]

it was a bit of a mess yeah

[tall cobalt]

If you're going to make the new version incompatible with the old one, this is your opportunity to ditch the "Barrel cleaning" recipe, which has only ever confused people

[radiant heart]

Good call, that's some old relic from the past that doesn't need to survive !

ORRRRR..... Use it as a tier one decontamination for the beavers ? 🤔 that would be sweet, as long as you are carefull go ahead and produce whatever, if SHTF just swap the barrels on decon mode !

[empty brook]

The hilarity of the image of a beaver crawling into the fermentation barrel to decon is too much, 😂

I mean the contaminated beavers do have white eyes so maybe they're blind until they heal, idk. Funny image for me though

Flavor text could say "hopefully the haulers don't forget about the beaver being decontaminated"

[shell fiber]

well, unfortunately that is two completely different functionnalities 😑

also there is no longer any script that consumes a ressource to fill a need (that's the tank shower / med bed issue)

[empty brook]

So that's what they broke, when they removed dandelions?

[shell fiber]

yep

[empty brook]

But wait.....how does food work then?

Oh you mean as in a building that performed this function. Sorry I'm slow

[tall cobalt]

Oof

[empty brook]

I guess let me ask this a different way, does the shower as a building or the lido consume water to function?

[tall cobalt]

I mean we could try to get the TimberAPI folk to put it back in

[empty brook]

Or is said water only subject to evaporation?

[shell fiber]

the shower and lido don't actually consume water

[tall cobalt]

Lido is only subject to evaporation, I believe shower consumes water?

Huh, if not then that's cool

[empty brook]

See this is what I thought

[shell fiber]

if the shower does, i never noticed it and don't know how it does

[empty brook]

Thanks for the clarity

[shell fiber]

no prob

[empty brook]

I figured you'd know cuz you mod lol

You can see the wizard behind the curtain

[shell fiber]

ahah, i don't know what's in the scripts, i just did a lot of testing and trial-and-error to understand how things work 😅

[radiant heart]

too bad, that would have been cool, any idea if @kind spire could fix that? ( sry bout the poke bro)

[shell fiber]

I think he said that should be possible

[radiant heart]

i'm about to remove the pumps from my shower zone, will let you know

[radiant heart]

if builder's lodge buff on cap would let them carry 2 scrap metal it would be nice 😉

[radiant heart]

@shell fiber been following beavers around since chaos is starting to happen, looks like some food stuff fill the other wellbeeing stuff but not hunger... could there be a typo somewhere in there ? 🤔

Shower doesn't suck water, confirmed 😉

[shell fiber]

Do you know which item does that ? I'm pretty sure the game would not tolerate typos in needs

[heavy lodge]

I take a look into specification, and Amaizingfood need exist, but that good, don't Also, no receipe.

[shell fiber]

yes i'ts one of the effects of the amazing stew

[kind spire]

I can extract old game script for you @shell fiber, so if there’s something that’s been removed, let me know!

[thorn dune]

waaait, different foods give different amounts of hunger points?? cabbage is 0.25 compared to every other plantable at 0.3! no wonder everyone is starving all the time

[thorn dune]

the upgrade says it has a depth of 3, is it supposed to be pumping that little trough? I've found that the upgrades hardly ever pump, I often see just the main buildings pumping and none of the upgrades doing it

[shell fiber]

that's because cabbage needs to be cooked to be a good food 😉
but all others are 0.3 like any generic foodstuff, except the awful stew that is 0.9 but that's moslty to make sure it is not eaten in normal circumstances

[shell fiber]

well in the old med bed you had a "good consuming attraction effect booster" script or something like that, it could be used to make buildings that consume ressource XYZ to fill up whatever need you set it too

and this script is dead in V5

but i cannot tell how deep it was uprooted

[shell fiber]

oof ! i have to say you were 100% right on this, the power shaft CANNOT be in the back, that is just... a big big no

i don't know what i was thinking

probably not anything smart and probably not clearly

building size set aside, it absolutely need a front power plug

and probably would be nice to have it go through the entire building for the late game when you want to build other watertight stuff (including factories) on top

hmm... althought possibly a stupid concern, i don't like the implications of having the shaft connect both front and back.

[thorn dune]

both seems a lot with the restrictions on other buildings

[shell fiber]

basically that means the shaft is running through the length of the building entirely, which means it occupies 3 squares... in a 3x2 house

which means that there is basically 1-2 blocks of livable spaces in the house

so i want it to be larger

so the older model is better

[shell fiber]

i think it's not that crazy to connect both ways

because it's a buidling that is mostly useless as part of a dam when there is no bad tide

OR i can remove the power requirement 🤔

in which case the house becomes a regular-size, fairly livable building

actually that's a lot better

yeah, let's try that

[thorn dune]

sure would be nice is mechanistry's AI didn't have my water pumpers get thirsty and leave work (and 3 units of water) to run across the city to get a bit of water

[radiant heart]

will pay more attention next time around, didn't note what was or wasn't filling the hunger bar

[radiant heart]

well, deluxe stew gives barely anything on hunger, went from just in the red to just in the green, beaver gonna be starving again by the time he hits home

[marble canyon]

the U5 version Compatible with another mods like stairs or paths? or even district expansion?

[radiant heart]

district expansion is kinda pointless now since there are no more limits since U4 or am I missing something?

Dandelion tea is not giiving much on thirst too... tank is almost full so not like the little guy could take a huge sip

[radiant heart]

Same with juice, barely moves the bar from red to green

(on thirst)

[kind spire]

Based off how modular scripts usually are, it's probablty OK to just add it back in

[tall cobalt]

Maybe the shaft goes through an extra room above the living quarters, which makes the whole building L-shaped

We've got L-shaped buildings with the entrance on the front or the second floor, and we've even got the Architects lodge which has the entrance out the back, but we don't have any L-shaped buildings with the entrance on the side 😉

Also a dam with power transmission on the second floor is lacking, the utility dam transmits power on the first floor

(much to my frustration at some points)

[tall cobalt]

Districts restrict pathing, so beavers will not go halfway across the map to fill a need; this helps substantially with efficiency

(I also like using them to make restricted special-purpose districts like the "mining district" or the "science district", but you don't need to do that)

[radiant heart]

🤔 so beavers will have a set max distance they walk from theyr home ?

[tall cobalt]

No, they don't have a set max distance, it's more of a comparable/in practice thing

Like, walking is not fast

And if you really want some subset of beavers to not eat your goddamn sunflower seeds, put them in a different district, disable import/export, and they will carry on as though sunflower seeds never existed at all.

Did... um... did using districts for that not occur to you?

You'll obviously need to balance jobs and housing on each side but like, you can just, have some beavers not,

[radiant heart]

kinda but need science for other stuff then the district crossing, so i just built more farming land with a gizillion sunflowers 😉

[empty brook]

Maybe they will add it back in if enough ppl make noise about the FT needing tea since IT got coffee

[tall cobalt]

The names of the "irrigation tower lodge" and "irrigation tower" feel like they are the wrong way around

The taller one should be the tower and the lower one should be the lodge

"Irrigation lodge" and "irrigation tower" would work better and be easier to parse I think

[radiant heart]

the one not on ppillar should not have "tower" i agree

[shell fiber]

Probably it has its dandelion tea already filled

[shell fiber]

Yeah good idea

[shell fiber]

Very common and annoying issue 😅

[radiant heart]

not sure, but that's probably the whole base of the chaos mechanics...

is there a way to make sure the beaver fills up both needs not only one, specially the "vital" ones🤔

like deluxe stew, , IMO, if one goes for that snack it should fill up all the needs it displays in the description, not stop at some point because one is already filled up

[shell fiber]

There's some issue with that, mostly being that the script that defines the watertight voxels is a bit limited and doesn't allow weird shapes to be defined properly, but I'll see

[shell fiber]

The issue with that is that if the dandelion tea / red soda need can be overfilled, they become strictly better that water in all circumstances, like vanilla berries that are effectively not eaten because even eating raw kohlrabi when the kohlrabi need is 99% full is still better than a foodstuff that only fills hunger

But what I could do is maybe give water a supplementary need, which would allow to uncap the tea / soda one and make them all somewhat equivalent

But that will still cause beavers to drink a lot more tea/soda than they currently do

Hmm... 🤔

I think the solution is still to make stuff that fill multiple needs...

Maybe some lunch boxes like things 🤔

[tall cobalt]

I was looking through all the food recipes, and it seems that there is one thing that sates "Nutrition: grilled chestnuts" and it is mushroom stew

Chestnuts + sunflower seeds + possibly berries? as a granola sounds like a fun time and way to bridge the gap

I'm thinking about it in terms of... like... how many distinct foods would I need to have as a bare minimum of nutritional needs?

[shell fiber]

I'll probably make something like that, but not clear yet what ingredients to put in.
Probably rice, chestnuts, sunflowers, could do berries but that makes blueberry onigiris irrelevant.
Not a big issue though.
Maybe a bit of pine resin as a binder ?😅

[shell fiber]

Yeah I just couldn't be bothered with remaking the chestnut need at the time I made the recipe, fixing it is on my bucket list

[shell fiber]

Turns out pine resin is edible 🤔 sort of

[tall cobalt]

I'd still make berry jam onigiris regardless of usefulness, but I could be the only one

[shell fiber]

well i need to rationnalize things every now and then 😉

skim off excessive complexity when it doesn't serve a good purpose etc

[shell fiber]

@radiant heart are you making green stew in your playthrough were you just can't get enough sunflowers ?

i'm checking the maths behind the curtains, and green stew effectively has a x10 multiplier between consumed need and output need (one seed makes 10 stew, each filling as much sunflower need as one seed)

[shell fiber]

enough poking at that stuff for now, time to playtest

oh, regarding the bad water pump : one of the reasons why i want it to be more readily usable, is because there's no telling how long it will take for the second badtide to arrive, and i want to make sure all players manage to get one operationnal before the first one.

i'm also removing the thirst value of stews for now, i'm pretty sure that causes a lot of chaos (and that caps the consumtion of stews)

according to my exel file, with only vegetable stew, chestnut stew and pumpkins, you should be able to easily cover all crop-based needs.

then i need to rework the cooked dishes to remove orphan needs such as weird udon, that solely exist to give a food reciepe to the gristmill

also the spadderdock need is woefully underfilled because even the vegetable stew doesn't use it, only the deluxe stew fills it

now weird udon fills both chestnuts and spadderdock needs

btw i renamed them (at last)

[thorn dune]

talking of weird udon, in the top right you can see me slowly realising how slow 4/hour is and how many gristmills and waterwheels I'm going to need

[shell fiber]

fair point

i could easily double or triple the production speed i guess

[thorn dune]

I was trying to justify it to myself and I figured it didn't use water, and had such a small number of ingredients that travel time was minimal so maybe it was ok

like producing stew full speed in a drought is a little risky

and green stew is 5/hr but with so many ingredients one of the workers is likely out getting more fairly often

[shell fiber]

ah, yes, that's why many buildings have more workers than just one

i figured that they would actually spend most of their time gathering ingredients, so i put more workers

the ratio between inputs and outputs is something i've put tought in, but the rest like cooking time ? not so much

stews take a while because that's how a stew is made

otherwise...

[rancid temple]

Trying to get water beaver working U5, getting the following:

[Error : Unity Log] ArgumentException: There is no GoodSpecification with id: ScrewpressBlueprint
Stack trace:
Timberborn.GameGoods.GameGoodFilter.Load () (at <71994a431bde4ef1a7c335073a993c77>:0)
(wrapper dynamic-method) Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleService.DMD<Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleService::LoadSingletons>(Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleService)
(wrapper dynamic-method) Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleService.DMD<Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleService::LoadAll>(Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleService)
Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleAdapter.Start () (at <a38ce14644da437795019583808b06f8>:0)

[tall cobalt]

1. Did you download the u5 specific experimental build?
2. Compatibility is being broken between u4 (WBO 2.2) and u5 (WBO 3.0) saves so you cannot carry over. This is being used to completely overhaul the medicine system in the new absence of dandelions, clean up a variety of legacy cruft, deal with the new absence of certain scripts, and also because the badwater processing subsystem isn't in place yet

If it's not those, gonna have to wait for Lapant to get here

[shell fiber]

[there is no good specification with Id screwpressblueprint]
How on earth did you get that ?

Did you have a very old version of this mod installed by any chance ? Do you have mods installed beyond the dependencies ?

[shell fiber]

jeez, not having access to bad water AND no badtide comming is such a drag 🙁

i'm cycle 5 and i can't get any science running because no access to that red crap 😑

time to make a building that fixes that...

[thorn dune]

badwater is post metal in vanilla, I think you might be making WB difficult on most vanilla up5 maps as you've switch it around

fwiw I'm going slow now as I'm on to the factory + metal and the number of missing limbs is becoming a serious problem 😅 might need to wait for more healthcare to reappear

[shell fiber]

did you change the injury risk in the options ? beavers getting maimed should be extremely rare early on

[thorn dune]

oh I didn't realise, thanks that'll keep them working harder for a while

[shell fiber]

yeah there is a weird behavior occuring when you try to change it, not sure why

best is to keep that value as default because what is does makes no sense to me

[thorn dune]

hmm, ok, I didn't touch it I just got unlucky I guess.

[shell fiber]

can you upload a few screenshots ?

hmm... im getting quicly irritated at the lack of badtides

maybe i should rework my nonsense to make it not dependant on that

tapping in the bad river seems a more viable option

but i want the solution to also be good for bad tides

🤔

[heavy lodge]

Why don't use flood mod ? I have badtide straight from cycle 1 🤣

[shell fiber]

well that's a good idea, but unless i make it a dependency i need the mod to work for normal people too

oh i see