Water Beaver Overhaul

[tall cobalt]

At one point I put an irrigation tower house in the bottom of a lake partially to see if "nice view" still applied. Apparently yes.

If that counts then there's no reason a rooftop terrace doesn't.

(In fairness, the other reason I tried was because the entrance to the irrigation tower was perfectly matched to the depth of the lake, making stairs unnecessary.)

(I decided it wasn't worth it and dynamited water retaining pits along the edge of the lake instead.)

This being said, I do put my terraces at the top of super high towers for the same reason I always try to put my shrines in places that would provide a view of untamed nature to contemplate. I like thinking about the spirit of things.

(Inside the city itself, spare corners get water tanks and rest beds instead.)

Another question. Why can't you put windmills on top of stacked Large Warehouses, but then if you add an industrial pile on top suddenly you can?

(One of my favorite Folktails setups is stacking huge numbers of warehouses on each other and then using the top ones for power generation and gravity batteries.)

[shell fiber]

The windmills need to find a floor X levels under them, most of my buildings have fake floors when they are more than 1-tall but not the large warehouses, so there is situations where you can't place windmills only because the floor they want lands in the middle of a large warehouse

[shell fiber]

should i change the door texture so that it looks like there is an actual door blocking water from entering the building ?

[shell fiber]

uploading that on the mod.io page

hopefully that helps people not playing like the folktails 🙂

[shell fiber]

@radiant heart

now getting them supplied...

[radiant heart]

that would be cool but definetly not a must nor a rush

[shell fiber]

i just found the last piece of the puzzle

[shell fiber]

it seems to work just fine, the only catch is that they must be supplied by something that makes water, not haulers. they also seem to treat supplying as pretty high priority, so it's better to place them close to waterpumps

[radiant heart]

so the tank is like a torage that the pumpers will bring it to directly?

[shell fiber]

yeah but you can't go drink in it

also, even when dry beaver keep trying to get showered

[radiant heart]

but if paused do they empty it like the irrigation tower to get the water back?

[shell fiber]

despite it not working

[shell fiber]

i believe so

but storage is 30

[radiant heart]

beavers are so dumb 🤣

so they stay in it forever untill someone shows up with water?

[shell fiber]

actually it makes sense, they get 1x10^-7 /hour of clean and wet fur, which is enough to overwrite their natural filth progression

oooh

can i...

eheh

seems i can

negative by negative = +

[radiant heart]

?

[shell fiber]

okay, they are just morons

attractions like the med bed have a default need value and a multiplier for when ressource X is present

so i figured if i make the default a negative, they wouldn't want to come when there is no water (because that would litterally dry them and make them dirty)

but either they are just idiot, or they always assume there will be the ressource and go even if there's not

[wild ermine]

Would it be possible to spread to other beavers in same house :-)?

[shell fiber]

hmm... not really, or at least way to complex for me

[radiant heart]

and don't need that game to become pandemic, there is a game for that anyway 😉

[heavy lodge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMOZJ3lmVWc Beavers eaten by a hungry monster at 15.00 into the video 👹 🤣

[radiant heart]

good thing i saw that vid first, was about to use those billboards to power my colony !

Waas down to 3 beavers, would have been the end of the run

[heavy lodge]

Never trust a billboard from @shell fiber 🤣

[radiant heart]

if it's too good to be true, it probably is! I was like "no way that power can be free" but didn't think much about it and had no idea about the reference

[heavy lodge]

It's the funny video ever 🤪

🤣

[shell fiber]

it's a bit late to watch it now, but as soon as i have time 😅

[heavy lodge]

Have a lot of fun ...

[static glacier]

not an fan, i am thinking about the struggle i would have with just supplying all the small dirstricts with what they need

[static glacier]

this is beautiful, makes me want to start over and play the white paws more like they should be

[radiant heart]

there is alwas the optin to move your actual colony toward the intended way once it's kinda stable too 😉

[static glacier]

but it is so big XD but maybe worth the challenge

[radiant heart]

Youy do you, starting new is also a fun challenge if there were a few version updates since you started, early game changes every here and there

[static glacier]

i mean would be nice, but also i have just really utilised this river for power... maybe starting a second district is the key here

[radiant heart]

so much room to grow, there is still a lot of room to abuse as long as fps doesn't drop too low for your liking

[static glacier]

buildings placed ontop of each other dont block of passages, so the beavers move right through them. Convinient for building but i am shure not intentional XD

[radiant heart]

think it's a thing with the buildings having inner pathing, it is in fact cuper convinient for building and will assume it's intended unless told otherwise. So much evil stuff in that mod, it's cool to get a break here and there 😉

[white sand]

Hey folks, I am having some issues with the Pit & Ladder lodge tower segment.
after building the "base" lodge I can build only one tower segment on top of it and not more. I get the warning it would be to far a way from a district, but it is clearly not. Well, I can place it, but it can not be build. Am I just missing something obvious? I have all the recommended mods installed as well (like ladders)

[shell fiber]

Oh I thought I had fixed that, which update are you on?

[radiant heart]

did you also fix the rooftop terrace that doesn't connect if built on side platforms? ( and a combination of pit lodge/side platforms, if it can be

[shell fiber]

In principle yes

[shell fiber]

Oh that's a nice town 😊
If you can spare the resources, I would replace those platforms with shaft on top with literal double platforms, so that you can give them a little roof too 😉

[shell fiber]

What are those triple platforms like things with windmills in top in the background ? 😅

[radiant heart]

looks like the 3 tall storage

[shell fiber]

There's no such thing as far as I i know🤔

[radiant heart]

ain't the large storage 3 tall?

can't look it up, on my hard run atm, that storage is lightyears away!

at least back to 15 beavers after the appocalypse that got me down to 3

just curious, did you ask @kind spire about that shower tank thing, guess he could come up with a 2 lines of code that would fix it 🤷‍♂️

can they eat raw rice ? like it only fills up hunger with no buff but they still eat it?

[radiant heart]

8d drought without a proper reservoir is the point you need those,

so on normal, they still can be used for 2 days on long ones

need that running for wwwwwway longer on hard tho...

[white sand]

I have 2.2.9 now, but it already did not work with the version I startet the savegame with. I can not remember the version, but I installed it on 23.09.2023.

[wispy crypt]

Hi idk why but my beaver don't use the Rest Bed when they have one of the injuries (minor burn, mild disease, minor injury). In addition Minor burn does not show on the left side of the screen that a beaver is injured

It's the Version: 2.2.9

[shell fiber]

i'll look into it

[wispy crypt]

And ty again for the great mod

[shell fiber]

whelp, a new update dropped 😅

i mean, not fully yet

[heavy lodge]

It killed dandelions 🤣

but, remains Brambles 😁

[shell fiber]

@strange seal is there going to be some other new harvestable plants instead ?

[strange seal]

no plans for it atm

[shell fiber]

so what is left on the list of mapeditor-available plants ? pine, berries, birch ? 🤔
that's not a lot

tbh it would be really cool if you could make everythign available

also did i read correctly ? is there a third faction now ?

or eager beaver is just a way to call the players ?

[heavy lodge]

Nope, the gratuated modders ...

[static glacier]

those are medium framed flyweels, i build them to compensate for the river being my only real source of power and that running dry now and then. They are 3 tall

they are pretty usefull as a place to just put your 3h windmills. better than not using the space at all

[shell fiber]

oooh, yeah right ! i had forgot about those

[bronze ingot]

HI ! with update 5 everything disappeared, Water Beaver is no longer there, I have nothing left! 😦 what should I do? reinstall everything? I'm sorry, I'm aware of being a disturber, but I'm Italian, I find it very difficult to follow everything you write, in my Timberborn, with nothing left

[heavy lodge]

Stay in normal game mode, not experimental. This way, will be in U4 and you can contnue your playthru.

[bronze ingot]

ohhh, I'll go to normal immediately, thanks!

[shell fiber]

ahah, well for a start give me more than a few hours to see what's happening 😅

[bronze ingot]

no 😦

[shell fiber]

at the moment i'm pretty sure not even timberAPI nor thunderkit is working, so yes for the time being let's stay on V4

[heavy lodge]

What's happened ? None of the depending mods is loadded due to TAPI fault !

[shell fiber]

but i have to admit i have no idea which of those is correct, i would assume "none" (nessuna) is correct

[heavy lodge]

None means current stable version (U4)

[shell fiber]

well even beyond that, there will definitely be a bunch of scripts that will be changed from V4 so effectively i'll have to rebuild the mod from zero again, thankfully i'm expecting most "simple" stuff to be largely unchanged

[bronze ingot]

I'll try to see

[arctic olive]

All my fault

@shell fiber any new ideas how to be with the new water mechonic ?

[bronze ingot]

yes! 🙂

[heavy lodge]

Fault ? Only ho is not working has his mod intact (Hytone with Wireless pump ? ) ...

[shell fiber]

well it really will depend on whether we can mod in other types of liquids, but to be honest the most problematic for me will be the deletion of dandelions

Oh crap

and the medicine / ressource-consuming attractions too

which i finished YESTERDAY 😣

[arctic olive]

That's simple, just add them back in

Make it a mod

[shell fiber]

well that's easy to do, but i had made them unplantable to force player to protect them

i'll probably have to rework that whole thing

[shell fiber]

so the issue is that i need them naturally occuring

[static glacier]

what deletion of dandelions? WHUT? I am so not up to date...

[heavy lodge]

In U5, no more dandelions !

[static glacier]

and how are we supposed to make medicin? i am cunfused....

[heavy lodge]

No more medicine, just medical bed for injury and advanced medical beds for poisining with badwater 🤣

[static glacier]

feels more like a downgrade...

[shell fiber]

no to be honest the whole dandelion -> healer -> medbed was pretty pointless in the base gaem, you can just have extra beaver taking the spot of injured beavers and ignore it completely.

i made dandelions into a bunch of things in my mod specifically because i don't like having pointless stuff laying around.

[static glacier]

i just dont understand why removing something that was at least an extra step, plus it makes it really hard for modders like you now. I think it was a strange decision. Thats all 😅

[shell fiber]

i guess it helps keep their code clean or something ? i don't know. i don't mind too much, we'll just keep going with berries and whatever else i come up with.

[radiant heart]

wow, that's something, happy i don't have to make that compatible with U5...

[shell fiber]

actually i'll probably make the science cost something that is derived from this bad water thing, seems interesting to have to actually collect and store this crap 😅

the fact that it is represented by a radioactivity symbol is actually slightly inconvenient because i was about to add plutonium from the deep mine

[heavy lodge]

Don't mix plutonium with badwater then, may it blow 💥

[shell fiber]

[radiant heart]

mega dynamite that blows up the hole for the giga tank in one shot? 😝

[heavy lodge]

It is in the base game in U5

[shell fiber]

hmm... i wonder if they were nice and made provisions in the scripts for a larger explosion radius, in addition to depth 🤔

in the meantime, i think i settled on a design for my megastructure engineering lodge

not as obnoxious as i was going for, but still a pretty neat building i think

(the glass pane has a cutout for the stairs but it doesn't display in unity)

[radiant heart]

tought it was an elevated skating ring before reading 🤣

[shell fiber]

basically what i want to convey visually is "i'm the guy building stuff out of giant sequoias"

[heavy lodge]

It detonates the nearby dynamite ...

[shell fiber]

yeah but what if i want to make a really big kaboom by making a 3x3 stack of dynamite ? 😅

[heavy lodge]

Or, a pattern for buried tank ?

[radiant heart]

can't you just extend the "ground place" of the dynamite? 🤔

[shell fiber]

i never tried actually 🤔

i suspect it is scripted to only blow up the voxel directly under the pivot point

[radiant heart]

can the "pivot" be larger on an element?

[shell fiber]

probably not

[storm gulch]

So I was running waterbeavers in Experimental, am I just screwed now?

I don't see a way to continue using an old experimental build

[radiant heart]

tried dragging the "experimental" save in the "normal save" folder and try to boot it there?

[storm gulch]

I will try that later

I'm just sitting here stressing out about having three different video series all ruined at the same time because of this update

[radiant heart]

can't you just block the update? ( yeah ii know you wanna do a U5 serie too but.... )

[storm gulch]

I think the game will refuse to launch until updated unless I just physically remove the Wi-Fi adapter from my computer before I turn it on today

And that obviously isn't sustainable 🤣

[radiant heart]

there is no option on steam to block the auto-update?

[heavy lodge]

Nope, just stay on normal stable mode, and, after, until all mods will be fixed, you can choose to run "Old version - 0.4" ...

[storm gulch]

I don't know how I'd disable updates without steam finding out that Timberborn needs to be updated first unless I go in and change settings without the computer being connected to the internet

Aaggghhhhh

I wish they'd give us notice when these things drop

[radiant heart]

https://tenor.com/view/burn-elmo-pyro-burn-it-down-ashes-gif-5632946

[storm gulch]

Well, let's hope I can manage to get all this to load in 0.4 stable I guess

[radiant heart]

not sure how the saves will handle it but the mods work on stable not experimental i'm 100% sure, that's how i play it so no worries there if you manage to swap the saves and the game can see it

[tall cobalt]

you need to make onigiri, I think

I mean I can sorta, a little see dandelions gone, they confused new players that assumed that they were an edible, but

[radiant heart]

yeah, i was asking if it could have a lower tier version of eating rice

[tall cobalt]

Cooking tent is not difficult to make

[radiant heart]

still, on hard it is a bit 😉

[tall cobalt]

I feel like cooking tent counts as a low tier building

hmm

[radiant heart]

still a higher tier then like cabages that can be consumed raw

[tall cobalt]

Why do you need rice to be consumable at the very beginning? Is it because you are running a map with a lot of water? Because the third crop being slightly more difficult to process seems perfectly acceptable to me

[radiant heart]

i was just thinking about maps like thousand islands where you have so much water land plus stairs beeing available right away would make a descent option

anyway. Think the focus for a bit gonna be moving all that to U5 so....

[tall cobalt]

I don't feel like every mod needs to be able to accommodate every challenge mode

Hmm. This mod isn't doing anything with the underground ruins, the ones that look like squares on a starting map

[radiant heart]

it's a work in progess for now you can get water and anvil in there

[tall cobalt]

Ah, that's the endgame mine

[radiant heart]

think it's in from 2.2.7 or 8

[tall cobalt]

got it

Honestly y'all could just keep doing the thing where you specifically say you highly recommend a version 0.3 map with dandelions on, and gate dandelion planting behind something else high-ish up in the tech tree... hmm

...Perhaps the hobby farm could have a second dandelions only recipe that works somewhat faster than the berry dandelion one

it could even slowly consume clay pots if you want to make it harder

[radiant heart]

not sure dandelions will stay when you open a map on U5, didn't go there, barely started new run

[heavy lodge]

bye bye dandelions in U5 ...

[tall cobalt]

Also... perhaps a fun use for waste rock could be to create a "jetty", a pile of rocks that would be exactly like your levee, but cannot have anything other than pathing built on top. IRL they look like this:
https://static8.depositphotos.com/1010801/982/i/950/depositphotos_9821394-stock-photo-rock-jetty-into-the-bay.jpg

Building a giant outcropping of them out in the middle of nowhere, as a sort of landfill, would I guess be possible? Perhaps require that they be constructed in water? Hmm.

[tall cobalt]

"Straight out of a beaver science fiction about a society that built everything out of rocks instead of wood!"

[shell fiber]

It is not really possible to specify that only X can be built on this of that building, but either way it would be either like a dam (blocking 0.5 water) or like a levee and I already have both 😉

Plus irl those things don't block water they just break the waves

[shell fiber]

That's a possibility too but then those maps would be missing bad water sources which would be a shame.

It's okay though, I'll rethink and rework a few things it's not a big deal.

What I'll slightly upset about is that I literally just finished 4 buildings that rely on the medicine deliver mechanism and that's likely going to go.

[shell fiber]

I'm quite confident that if you can find your save file and roll back the game to non-experimental everything should work just fine

[storm gulch]

That's exactly what I did, it works fine now

[carmine dragon]

Now, remember Sef, the game player?
It seems he has started a new series again using this mod.
Which means I need to hurry up and update the translation.
https://youtu.be/q4qfBeu7JtA?si=1iXihELlUY5aNGaq

[shell fiber]

oh boy, just at the right time 😅

i need to make a few tiny changes on some entries, so don't start too fast 😅

[carmine dragon]

Oh, well, it's not that hard to find the differences, so I'll keep working on it anyway
Even at this point, some important information has already changed (like around the traders)

[shell fiber]

ah, yeah

well the one good decision i took was to generallty add stuff at the end, so the order of entries should not be massively different.
there is the occasional insertion of a few lines thought

apparently he doesn't know about the filth need, but he has a path crossing down in the river so he should be fine 😅

[static glacier]

he will learn the hard way like me i guess XD i had a path in a river but all of a sudden all my beaver were too dirty to work and only two kits growing up saved my colony

[radiant heart]

just an idea, for all the late game stuff you could just keep the dandelions in and still have them planted by the nursery.

[shell fiber]

Actually I think the dandelions models were called through meshy so visuals might be an issue

My plan for now is that pines won't be plantable anymore along with berries. Dandelions will maybe stay as a regular plantable, at least until I settle on what to do with all that

[radiant heart]

What!!! non-plantable pines, that sure gonna mess up a ton of maps 🤔

or is resin gonna be changed for clay as a caugking metthod for early stages of the game? 🤔

[shell fiber]

they can proliferate on their own, and you just have to not cut them all 🙂
but i'll check out the map editor too, i think most maps will have pines no matter what

[shell fiber]

no that's the point, the ressource is precious, don't wreck it 🙂

[heavy lodge]

Bad idea, on badtide will be dead and, game over on pine ....

[shell fiber]

from what i could see from JC's video, bad water toxicity has a range inferior to normal water's irrigation range.

but that is a fair point, i'll keep it in mind

note that this also applies to blueberries 🤔

[radiant heart]

i mean to make the WB playable on any maps, kinda like the 1 extra dynamite in the kart so even without 2 tall cliffs on a map it can be done to dig a hole and place the mine and move on

trying to avoid situations where you start a run and end up hard lock due to the map itself and not a lack of experience/competence witht the faction

[radiant heart]

good point

[heavy lodge]

Do you remember occasional floods when you have dams ? One such a flood with bad water and will kill any tree or crops in 0.1 day !

[radiant heart]

berries spread faster tho so might be doable to make them spread far away from the "bad zone" before it comes and have a shitty irrigation tower save the day

[shell fiber]

yeah but at some poiny a mapmaker that only ever plants oaks and birch (i think that's the only 2 trees commont to all factions) is just not trying to make good maps, i can't accomodate that degree of bad design

[wild ermine]

I guess I do something wrong... High temp foundry is leaving injured beavers left-right-and-center, but none seem to visit the 4 clinics/wards?

[shell fiber]

i hope my system isn't too disfunctionnal, i'll look into it

[radiant heart]

got it, but if they are too far from the start or just bad tides or whatever... 🤔 i mean you took the time to test out yourself a "pineless start2 afterall 😉

[wild ermine]

Let me know if I can help you with more info, @shell fiber

[radiant heart]

are you sure they produce? got no issue over here

( are you on 2.2.9?)

[wild ermine]

I have 4 types of medicine stocked up in the 4 types 😉

[radiant heart]

strange

[shell fiber]

and no one visits the hospitals ?

[wild ermine]

None listed in the visits history

[shell fiber]

hmm... might have miscalculated the values then

don't know when i'll have time to fix this thought, moving to a new place tomorrow

[wild ermine]

Yes am on 2.2.9, installed usual way (delete fodler -> mod manager)

[shell fiber]

let's make a few tests and if it ends up too problematic, we'll think about somethign else 🙂

[wild ermine]

no rush, @shell fiber - I have plenty of beavers out of job 😉

[radiant heart]

But where will you find someone dumb enough to test those hardcore things ? 🤔 🤣

[wild ermine]

only 400 jobs for 480 odd beavers 😉 (Video card is starting to feel that)

[shell fiber]

i really wonder 😅

okay, time for bed !

[radiant heart]

A bit torn between jumping on U5 to give it a try on continue the hard run of the WB... too bad i can't boot both at the same time 😆

GN !

[shell fiber]

you can go ahead and try v5 for at least a couple of days, i'll make one updates on this mod and then will try ripping v5 and poking at its insides.

[radiant heart]

don't really feel like leaving helix mountian where it's at. U5 always gonna be there later anyway

willl watch a few vids to have an idea of what those new things are about tho

[carmine dragon]

Okay, this should be good for now(っ´∀`)╮ =͟͟͞

[bronze ingot]

hi, I'm producing grape juice, I noticed that it gives me an error (in the name?) but everything works correctly, what does that value in red mean? @shell fiber @heavy lodge

[heavy lodge]

It's a missing translation key. Just annoying , not harm at all...

[bronze ingot]

ah! Fine thanks 🙂

[shell fiber]

strange... i though i had fixed that

[bronze ingot]

@shell fiber @heavy lodge This upgrade doesn't work, and it can't contain any supplies, or am I wrong?

[shell fiber]

oh, the text is a bit old

it has a lot of farming storage, but you can't store other things like in a warehouse

i'll fix the text

@carmine dragona few new or fixed lines at the end. i had a few buildings that didn't specify "watertight building"

[bronze ingot]

but it says "no activity in the area" so the 3 helpers above don't collaborate in the collection, they don't do anything?

[shell fiber]

ooh, i see

they will collect crops

the nothing to do is because they don't have any planting area designated

you need to plant the appropriate decorative pland (the fern i think) somewhere in their range to remove that mark

maybe i should just go and give them a real crop to plant...

[bronze ingot]

ahhhh

Yes, it is. Thank you

[carmine dragon]

At least not crash-to-desktop

[shell fiber]

thank you !

in the meantime : i just can't help myself

giant sawmill

[heavy lodge]

for sequoia ? 😍

[shell fiber]

yep 😉
I was also considering a design like this with a rolling bridge, but i think animating it will be a nightmare.

now the main thing i was thinking about : what reciepes will we be doing with this ?

the obvious solution is cut it down in a crapton of logs and/or planks

[tall cobalt]

Can you turn giant sequoia into giant platforms yet

[heavy lodge]

Or, some giant planks as an alternative to default metal platforms ?

[shell fiber]

but since i also made this thing, and i'm thinking about making stackable bridges out of half giant logs (split lengthwise) i'm thinking about adding what essentially amounts to giant planks

[shell fiber]

there is giant platforms for clockwork mech farms for now

[tall cobalt]

What if: splitting it down the center and then putting one of the halves, flat face up, across a river or gap as a sort of "bridge" that doesn't need the two ends to be the same height (scaffolding probably needed at both ends)

you can probably find other uses for a half sequoia as a giant walkable

[shell fiber]

actually i thought about making angled bridges at some point and cheekily tried to get @tawdry bronze to do it 😉😅

i will probably do some sort of giant bridge made of half sequoias, but horizontal

because i want to have houses buildable on top

i mean "houses"

because most houses are watertigth they can't be on that stuff

but that would allow to lift most storage and other non-watertight junk off the ground

[tall cobalt]

The fun part about making a giant log an angled bridge is that you don't need crazy suspension scaffolding in the middle to make it look plausible

[shell fiber]

yeah 🙂

[heavy lodge]

Make then non watertight houses from clay and, make them non solid 👹

[tall cobalt]

Split Sequoia as a resource that is just, like, sequoia trees cut in half (you can fit exactly twice as many of them into giant sequoia storage) sounds like a fun time

[shell fiber]

Eheh

sorry for the rain noise

[heavy lodge]

I'm afraid to ask how bad will be a injury for working beavers here ... But, looks awesome 😍

[shell fiber]

basically the idea is that all injury causing injury can cause different types of injury with different probablilities and gravity

so it is entirely possible for a very unwise beaver to disregard elementary safety rules and end up sawed in half 🤐

[heavy lodge]

so, instead of 1 working beaver, to have 2 half zombie ones ? 😮 😬 😢

[shell fiber]

First try success !
this thing is FAT

it's litterally an entire dam on its own

because ofc it's a watertight house too

[heavy lodge]

House ? Who want to live in a sequoia lumber mill ? 🤣

[shell fiber]

beavers ? 😅

[silver phoenix]

beavers that like noise and splinters

[shell fiber]

AAAnd of course my animation if f＊＊＊ed because unity is a giant flaming turd...

[silver phoenix]

https://tenor.com/view/doggie-doo-firework-fireworks-poop-gif-19131695

[shell fiber]

apparently the sawblade animation is fine

there's somethign wrong with when an object doesn't finish its animation where it started

same issue with the trebuchet i think

okay, enough for today !

Good night !

[radiant heart]

Looks like injured beavers don't like the rest bed, had one injured for a few days and never in the bed

( early game injuries)

[radiant heart]

someone is clearly cheating there, how the F do you get a giant log cutter and a medium tank but still be on the kart ??🤣

[distant wigeon]

They're testing, of course.

[radiant heart]

i know lol

[radiant heart]

@shell fiber starting to hit those 12+ droughts, would be nice to have the tanks shower 😝

and small irrigation tower is brutal, uses way too much water to be reliable, had to roll back 2 cycles and make the better one 😅

[radiant heart]

dropped to 6 beavers but still alive, one week left on drought of cycle 6 |

Sing "i will survie" while looking at that mess !

How about a "safety office" that reduce injury risk in a range? 🤔 Credit to DisturbedZ

[tall cobalt]

I feel like this mod needs a wiki, not just a tech tree graphic. The names should all be clickable

[radiant heart]

need someone with time to do it... it's quite a mess honestly, wouldn't want to have to do it

[tall cobalt]

lemme just poke wikidot actually

[tall cobalt]

http://whitepaws.wikidot.com/ there is basically nothing here so far but

I will either get to it when I am no longer too exhausted to sit up and/or I can add any of you

[tall cobalt]

(Without going into specifics, I have a chronic illness.)

[tall cobalt]

Do metal fasteners require exactly 0.3 coal or is that a rounded number?

[tall cobalt]

http://whitepaws.wikidot.com/glorious-storage Okay I haven't actually done that much but here's a start

[shell fiber]

did you make this ? that's pretty cool !

is it some sort of free wiki generator platform ?

[shell fiber]

one coal fuels 3 reciepes, so it's effectively 0.33333 but the reciepe doesn't show more that one decimal

[shell fiber]

i made an account "Lapantouflemagic" as you could expect.
how do i request access to the page editing menu ?

[tall cobalt]

I think I have sent the right kind of invitation?

you may need to go directly to https://www.wikidot.com/account/messages to see the invite

[shell fiber]

I got it ! Seems to work ! Thanks !

I guess we could get @heavy lodge and /or @radiant heart on it too if they are interested 😊

In the meantime

https://tenor.com/view/cat-catzzz-zzz-sleep-gif-25903356

[tall cobalt]

Use "options -> page source" (bottom right) to see how a page was created so you can copy the template at the top

I think there is some sort of page template thing but idk how to use it

Also, if you save a page and the formatting is effed up, let me know, I can fix it pretty easily

There is the possibility to upload images or make it look pretty, but those cost extra money

You get 300MB of space under the free plan so it has to just be plain text for now

[tall cobalt]

... What if the Elevator to the Abyss is how Whitepaws acquire parts for their beaverbots, rather than building them in aboveground facilities? And then you would have some sort of copist lodge-like setup that consumes ENS degrees for "reverse engineering" them into usable limbs and bodies...

they would have to create their own heads though

What I mean is, The Elevator to the Abyss could mine "electrical parts".

Making them into something useful would then require building an "advanced engineering lab", which can literally just be a very large undecorated house; the description would then mention that it has a "cleanroom" taking up the vast majority of the space.

The advanced engineering lab then consumes materials, a new type of ENS degree, a big chunk of science points, and also aforementioned "electrical parts", to turn them into Bot Limbs and Bot Torsos. When not doing this, the advanced engineering lab could also be a very slow source of science points.

IDK how you'd do the heads.

[distant wigeon]

Didn't Lap want to do some sort of crazy demonic black magic for getting "Bots"? Or Zombie beavers?

[tall cobalt]

Alternatively, the Elevator to the Abyss literally just mines plastic.

[distant wigeon]

I'm just curious at this point what Lap will do with Badwater. The icon indicates it's Radioactive, after all.

Who knows WTH extract is supposed to be, too.

[tall cobalt]

Mention that the plastic gets melted down into the standard log shape and size for long-term storage, and you're good to put it in a Pile. Or just put it in a warehouse, nobody's counting.

[distant wigeon]

Or rolled up Sheets for Piles.

[tall cobalt]

Can still do that to acquire the Heads

But yeah, allowing the elevator to mine plastic could open the door to some real weird nonsense

http://whitepaws.wikidot.com/sawdust Also do you think this is enough, or should I put the exact ratios of log to sawdust to other product

Like this wiki isn't intended to replace the mod

It's supposed to be a thing for "but where do I get clay pots??"

[tall cobalt]

Bug report: Artist's Lodge is 1) not in the Village Jobs submenu and 2) has the ENS icon instead of the Artist's Lodge icon

Another bug report: Two woodfelling planification lodges in two separate places on the menu

The one on the left has a bunch of logs in front of it and the one on the right doesn't, which I suppose is a reasonable explanation for why they are two separate entries, but why are they in different places?

(Don't mind the bunch of random buildings in the background, I am using Creative Mode to do research for the wiki)

[tall cobalt]

http://whitepaws.wikidot.com/blueprints Despite the small and unassuming nature of this page, it took me like an hour to cross-reference and verify everything, and I'm still not sure of the "six total in artist and copist lounges" part

I am going to lie down now

I will work on the Billboards later

[radiant heart]

not that much interested, typing text bores me fast. i'd rather test dumb stuff ( BTW not sure if you've seen it but looks like 2.2.9 broke the rest beds, running 1-2 beavers short all the time they don't use it)

[radiant heart]

I Like that, and they have to bring down the ancient magic scroll and other stuff, hope @shell fiber is onboard with that once the display thing gets fixed

[radiant heart]

i'd guess use it for the buclear reactor but that thing is more end game, early on who knows

probably gonna be some super cool/painfull thing like the rest of that mod

[radiant heart]

i had stuff like that when i didn't delete the folder before upgrading , waht version are you on?

caus everything is fine here

well... in the menus, colony is a hot mess 😅

[tall cobalt]

I'll try reinstalling when I am at my computer later

[radiant heart]

if you delete the WB folder from the pluggins and reload it problem should be fixed

[shell fiber]

Actually that's a pretty good idea, I don't like the concept of bit because I feel there's no way Beaver could make even half autonomous machines with wood and cogs, but unearthing human technology to make them is more appealing.

What I was going for fire now was to dig up "Hooman artifacts" and then you can "study" them to get all sorts of stuff, so that's not incompatible

[radiant heart]

did you manage the tank shower or beavers are too dumb and there is no way around it ?

[tall cobalt]

I wish there was a way to generate random outcomes, like when you stick an "Artifact" into processing you get one of several different parts back

Oh well, multiple recipes is fine

[shell fiber]

Yeah but I have issues loading custom textures for bots so for now I gave up on that

[tall cobalt]

Anyway for now you could probably just have the artifact stuff and call the rest TBD

[shell fiber]

One is the new one, the other is deprecated, they are only visible because you are in cheat mode 😉

[tall cobalt]

aha ok

Yeah like I said I was in Creative to get all the stats

[shell fiber]

It works, just need to finish packing that update 😅

[radiant heart]

getting in the 2weeks droughts, life is rough

the bath is only 169 tiles from the kart...

[shell fiber]

Ahahah😂

[radiant heart]

actually wanna do the district center on that island

[tall cobalt]

meanwhile on the wiki I have described kimchi as "brain food"

[shell fiber]

I can easily change the icon if I want, thing is if that's bad enough to kill all plant life and poison the beavers on contact, how do I turn it into something good that makes sense ?

The only thing that's sure is that will be a job for the alchemist

[radiant heart]

if alchimist can sit in bad water and purify it? 🤔

[tall cobalt]

That sounds like a job for bots

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11356-020-10985-9

This mod has clay, which is irl sometimes used for remediation of polluted water; perhaps that might be relevant

If badwater and/or mining is handled in the wrong way, however, that would create a very toxic fluid waste called "tailings" that would be at least as difficult to get rid of as waste rock

you could just stick it in a fluid dump and let it run off the map, which fun fact some companies do IRL and it is very very bad for everyone downstream

Which suggests use of it in mining actually... hmm.

[radiant heart]

@shell fiber something broke on 2.2.9 with irrigation tower, can't place a path there

Edit, can place the path while the building is not built tho

[tall cobalt]

Badwater being used in some process or other to greatly increase yield when mining at the cost of producing something even worse than waste rock...

[radiant heart]

works on that one tho 🤔

like that too, it works... no slue why first one is not working

[tall cobalt]

Related to the irrigation tower... what does "crushable building" mean?

[radiant heart]

if trees spread naturaly under it it will destroy it

[silver phoenix]

perhaps there can be an entity that thrives when coming in contact with badwater. an anti-beaver of some sort, if you get what I mean

or a specific plant or crop or w/e

does that make the game easier? 🤔

perhaps you can affect the happiness of your beavers if the composition of the population is uneven. e.g. the ratio of beavers / bots / anti-beaver needs to be within a certain range or else your beavers will be unhappy, that could give this 3rd entity more of a purpose

[shell fiber]

You have sunflowers under it, they are 2tall

[shell fiber]

Also means that is you try to place a building which space conflicts with the tower's space, the tower will be immediately destroyed. Like a stump or dead crop

[shell fiber]

That's a bit of a corner case but yes

[shell fiber]

I need to look at the specifications, but beavers who like bad water wolf be a good idea for a new faction

[shell fiber]

I don't think I have the means to do that 😓

[tall cobalt]

Clay for purification means that it may be possible for the Water Beavers to have some sort of way to treat badwater to turn it into water

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedimentation_(water_treatment)

The idea here would be to mix clay into badwater to adsorb the impurities, then let it settle for several days, and then end up with normal water

(Adsorb means the impurities are attracted to the surface, as opposed to absorb where it gets deep into the middle of it like a sponge.)

Wait no actually

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_sulfate

Aluminium sulfate is used in water purification and for chemical phosphorus removal from wastewater. It causes suspended impurities to coagulate into larger particles and then settle to the bottom of the container (or be filtered out) more easily. This process is called coagulation or flocculation.

Alum can be mined, or extracted from clay (the latter of which the alchemist can do)

[shell fiber]

hmm... filtering bad water into clean water is definitely possible yes, but do we want that ? water is plentiful enought

i think it would be most useful as a power source

or as some (possibly unhealthy) foodstuff would be more fun

i'll push my (probably) last update for V4 tomorrow most likely

GN !

pretty tired today, spend the whole day mounting Ikea furniture

[tawdry bronze]

If you play on hard its alot less water you have but maybe would be interesting as seperate mod for all factions 🤔

[shell fiber]

Ooh I just had a great idea !
Let's say we can purify bad water to obtain some weird salts (basically radioactive elements dissolved in water), that can either directly or indirectly be used as some sort of brain-boosting salts for making science, with the side effects of slowly turning your beavers insane and/or into zombeavers 😃

This way that also gives an actual use to the zombeaver curing machinery because it seems that bad water is effectively easy to defeat of it spawns on the side of the map (cf eldgames who completely defeated bastides with just a couple floodgates)

[tall cobalt]

Zombeaver shenanigans sound like a fun time

Some sort of research building using Weird Salts to Marie Curie the beavers is probably the way to go tho

Using radioactive materials to do Science! but insufficiently shielded and likely to make beavers sick long term

After that... how about a nuclear reactor?

[tall cobalt]

Or some sort of extra special water wheel that can only be built in a stream of badwater specifically...

So as to prevent "floodgates on the edge of the map"

by demanding that some type of terraforming be done

IDK how difficult "extra special badwater water wheel" would be to code but it would require that badwater at least flow into the map a little ways before flowing out

Outputs at different heights and a solid top would then complete the set of "why to use it"

[radiant heart]

ok but still strange i can place it with building mode but once built i can't, just let me do it or not, not have to destroy and rebuild 🤣

[radiant heart]

probably with some really specifics well-beeing thingnies but that sounds like a nightare to make happen

[radiant heart]

i tought about a "filter dam" taht would use charcoal ( since 1-WB got it and 2 it's a way to clean water)

not sure how about the other factions what could be the "filter material"

[radiant heart]

lapan had that in mind before the bad water, actually cockblocked the radioactive logo

Cycle 13, 10 days left on the drought... even if i die, i'll be happy

made it way further then i imagined

gotta give a special award to the rest bed not beeing wanted by the injured... a constant 3-4 useless eaters is a pain in the a....

[radiant heart]

it's peas, not sunflower... can't you recognize your own creation ? 😅 but i get the point

[shell fiber]

I looked into that yesterday it's weird. Somehow injured beaver are not allowed to use attractions, and the rest bed is one... I might be missing a script.

[radiant heart]

ain't it supposed to be a copy of the med bed but without the medecine?

worst case revert it to med beds and since there is no medecine they will never be boosted

BTW, is it intended that the ground irrigation tower is not a house? ( not the shitty one)

[shell fiber]

Well it is supposed to 😓

[shell fiber]

I fixed that a couple days ago I think 😉

[radiant heart]

lol

actually, WB hard is doable on 2.2.9 FYI, but can't have many woopsies...

and had a 2 deep hole to sink a bath in

getting to the long enough droughts that this will still be too shallow tho

[shell fiber]

Wait are you taking about the one on stilts ? Or the floor one that had the same design ?

[shell fiber]

Wait so beaver use the clinics an so on ?

Just but the rest bed ? Or they won't use any ?

[radiant heart]

the floor one

[radiant heart]

on my testing run i barely had any injuries so i assumed they are using it, but on my new one ( librairy not even built) the rest beds are never getting visitors even if i have injured beavers

[radiant heart]

I'm a bit sad there is no "good stew" in the early food chain, it's aunique part of the faction that should be there as soon as you get to coocking... idk, something like "cheap stew" somewhat high output be basicaly is dirty water with somewaht vegies in.

[radiant heart]

Another tought, balancewise, large farmhouse makes the assistant farmer kinda obselet unless the assistant is a bit of an in-between for the buffs, it's quite low compared to the large farm. ok it has to be less but that much less? maybe a 5% working spped too?

And of course a special crop would be cool, i'd do corn, cord be just grilled corn for the tier 1, tier 2 let's go popcorn sith some oil and higher? 🤔

[shell fiber]

Oh actually I already have assistant farmers the green peas, too many people just don't understand that they need to plant the fern. Which makes sense because I literally withe wrote "cannot plant crops"

But adding plants is one of the most difficult things to do because of the 3d model

Oh no right the IT already have corn

Different story : I was looking up smelling salts for the bad water, and they are generally ammonia based. Sadly turning nitrate to ammonia is not easy at all.

Basically only plants do it quite well

Unless you have lots of pure hydrogen of course...

Whelp, salts will be just dried bad water or something similar

[tall cobalt]

I suppose bioremediation by growing some weird bacteria is possible

So like, a hydroponic garden with whatever sort of bacteria in

[radiant heart]

I mean, peas saved my life once or twice now, that's why i'm a bit against pushing them further down the foodchain;)

on another line of toughts, i feel like moving the wood burner in the industrial tab instead of metal would make it easier to find early on.

[shell fiber]

well as far as i'm concerned, adding a new crop and finding it a new use is far more complicated that just pushing a very optionnal crop a bit later 😅 green peas are mostly good for some stew reciepes and their own wellbeing buff, but otherwise not vital

[shell fiber]

hmm... yes, could be a good idea

but it makes charcoal which is used mostly for metal working

[radiant heart]

true, got anough on your plate with U5... will keep that somewhere when you ask me "what next" in a couple 😉

[shell fiber]

but since people try to look for it long before touching metal i think it makes more sense this way

i fixed the rest bed issue too

[radiant heart]

make coal in the smelter then?

[shell fiber]

it is weird

[shell fiber]

ah, no a buidling can't have anything both as input and output

even across different reciepes

[radiant heart]

kk, was not sure about the diffrent receipe thing

[shell fiber]

i was actually thinking back on making a potter

and pretend cooking the pot happens magically

[radiant heart]

potter that is in charge of all the chauldron could be cool and more instinctive to find the place

[shell fiber]

but a potter doesn't make metal cauldrons

[radiant heart]

gotta admit some of those early on buildings i'm still a bit confused. it changed a lot since my last new run

[shell fiber]

i'll probably move the wood burner to industry for now

[radiant heart]

if not mistaking last new run was 2.2.3, maybe 4

like the anvil loop was not even in yet and the ENS not BP locked

[shell fiber]

okay, everything seems to be in order

oh i forgot the newsborad

[heavy lodge]

and, the Category button billboard too 🤣

sorry

[shell fiber]

i added :

• human relics (elevator to the abyss)
• nuclear waste (elevator to the abyss)
• Steel sawblade reciepe (foundry)
• advanced sawmill + 3 reciepes
• added giant half logs
• added megastructure engineer lodge
• elevator to the abyss is now a megastructure
• mega platfrom is now a megastructure
• rest bed are "fixed" (1 -> 3 variants)
• the trebuchet animation may or may not be fixed
• the cauldron reciepe is removed from primitive ironworks
• Added tank showers

i have a headache 😣

but i need to push that thing out

then i can start working on U5

[radiant heart]

"may or may not be fixed" lol

[shell fiber]

well i did a thing that should have fixed it, but i can't be bothered with checking

my brain is going to pop out of my skull 😣

but uploading now

[radiant heart]

will do don't worry 😉 sure wanna go back on gentle canyon and try that monstruous Sawmill!

the clay pot is still wood burner tho, right? and there is still at least one med pot in the kart ?

[shell fiber]

yep, that's the plan

to push people to make the factory

GN !

[radiant heart]

GN!

[burnt hamlet]

Not been here long, so not sure what the normal update procedure is. But, should I start a new game with the update you just dropped or just replace and keep going? Just downloaded and started Sunday.

[tall cobalt]

(I would be working more on the wiki but the covid shot is kicking my ass rn)

[radiant heart]

normaly updates don't break saves, been a while since that happened so you caan keep on your previous colony

Might have to manually delete the faction folder and reload tho, mod manager got some issue updating it, probably due to the size of the mod but it's not clear yet

[radiant heart]

@shell fiber trying to update with mod manager didn't crash the game but it didn't update

[shell fiber]

Did it work if you retry ?

[shell fiber]

The mod doesn't work on update 5 yet though !

[radiant heart]

retry like delete the pluggin and reload as usual or just try the same thing twice?

[shell fiber]

Just re-download without deleting again ?

[radiant heart]

nope

[shell fiber]

Oh

So modmanager not working at all ?

[radiant heart]

at least now it doesn't crash, just doesn't upload

[shell fiber]

Download you mean ?

[radiant heart]

my guess is the file size but also happenned once with the extra warehouse so i'm a bit confused since size would not matter on the storage one

i mean when i clicked "update" to go from 2.2.9 it looked like it started downloading but after a while the button came back and was still on 2.2.9

when i go for download after deleting the pluggin file it downloaded

[shell fiber]

Have no idea what's going on in mod manager

[radiant heart]

same here 🤣 i just keep you updated since you asked 😉

[radiant heart]

it's really cool ! it works ! Well done sir, well done !

[shell fiber]

So the rocks go in the correct direction ?

[radiant heart]

yup

[shell fiber]

Nice !

[radiant heart]

less nice, got no room available to dump in the giant sawmill 🤣

[shell fiber]

Time to terraform 😅

[radiant heart]

i like the 3 inputs in the back tho! ( one on the side would be nicer to drop it in the corner but won't complain too much for now )

[radiant heart]

terraform where? i'm at like 95% occupancy of the ground

[shell fiber]

There was something weird with the animator. Basically if a movable item ended at a different point than where it started, the whole animation gets rescaled to make it happen anyway 😥
So basically I just added a fram where everything gets back into place at lightning speed

[shell fiber]

Well I guess it's time to uproot some buildings and replant them on top of the sawmill 😅

Which is a bit the cycle of d conduction / destruction i was hoping for 😊

[radiant heart]

wow, steel blades in the foundry! ( so now i need a 3rd chunker 😅 )

and methane is a tad precious already... let's see how/if it works and worry about the balance later

( btw name is not displaying properly in the foundry item list)

no more metal blocks in the foundry is intended? 🤔

[radiant heart]

my clinics upgrade don't seem to get a ton of visits

maybe that save is cursed a bit tho with leftovers from bots and all, like all buildings still let me place bots and got the bot alive counter in the UI still....

everytimes i look at it there is no sign of visit and storage is full

still didn't fill up the ENS for the huge mill.... not complaining... yet

[radiant heart]

did you mess up with screwpress axel consuming speed @shell fiber ?

[shell fiber]

Yeah, that made too many things obsolete

[radiant heart]

one less chunker to feed !

really like my 2 set-up, don't feel like getting a 3rd one in

[shell fiber]

Basically the med bed issue was that beavers who can't work also can't use attractions, unless they are need beds but that only gives an exception for the need the med bed fixes. Do more the beds are for minor stuff and clinics for making the medicine, the upgrades are for severe injuries burns disease etc only

But I'll rework it again later

[radiant heart]

gonna give it a little try

[shell fiber]

Uh, no, why ?

[shell fiber]

But what about silicon metal 😅

[radiant heart]

cauz i'm bumb and overstock on saw dust 🤣

since the huge mill doesn't make something that needs a constant supply, gonna make a few blades and swap it

Goes in and meds got in right after making the screen cap !

[shell fiber]

I still have to make proper visualisation and storage for glass, steel sawblades, and giant half logs 😅

Lots of blending in perspective

[radiant heart]

the little pot by the med beds that used to show if there was medecine in or not would be cool too 😉

[shell fiber]

Although the sawblades will literally be the same as the small ones but with a less crappy texture

[shell fiber]

We'll see it if it still exists after u5

Also they shouldn't drink scalpels

[radiant heart]

doesn't in vanilla, meds are gone, so is paper

[shell fiber]

Just saying 😅

[radiant heart]

well, a tray instead of a pot i guess

[shell fiber]

What ? Paper ?

[radiant heart]

paper is bye bye in U5

[shell fiber]

Oh it only existed for dynamite right ?

[radiant heart]

no more books and not needed for dynamite

[shell fiber]

Eh, sure why not

[radiant heart]

there was a wellbeeing thing with books, the windmillls needed it, so did the scarescrow

[shell fiber]

I can re-add it easy peasy

[radiant heart]

wonder how they are done with FT now 🤔

[shell fiber]

So what do the windmills need now?

[radiant heart]

no clue

[shell fiber]

[radiant heart]

where do they get that problem, other 2 are getting visitors but looks like that one i don't have the requirment to injur my beavers

[shell fiber]

Barely implemented yet

[radiant heart]

holy wow

suggestion: have dust piling on the platform over the doors kinda like the other places where it piles up according to inventory

and instead of closing a door can the visual of the log stay there and the blade actually goes across instead of the brown door? if it's too messy forget it

[shell fiber]

I'm considering both but I also wanted to make the second log be here or not depending on whether there is a second log in storage or not. That will depend on how tolerant the scripts are to each others.

The insides of the building are hidden because it's actually a huge mess inside 😅 the long way seems in one piece but it's actually 3 boxes adjusted to look like one. I could fix it but not a priority. Also that saves me from animating more stuff with the sawblade 😅

Long story short : can do but lots of work needed

[radiant heart]

forget it then, it's already super cool

deluxe storage for crude blades but not balloons? 🤔

assistant farmer still "cannot plant crops" in the description

not gonna complain about that one, you know my idea there 😉

Metal tab getting a bit crowded, might be time for sub menus, like "mines & Drills" and leave the processing on the first layer

power too could use some shrinkage but most of that isn't WB mod directly, if it's a depedency can the WB mod manage the sub-menus or the actuall mod would have to do it?

GN, getting a bit late, gonna go over the rest tom evening

[shell fiber]

Crap forgot about that

[shell fiber]

Actually I was hoping someone would tidy up that mess. Doesn't shaft extensions clean it up ?

GN !

[shell fiber]

Okay ! modding tools fixed !

[shell fiber]

just before i go to bed : is it safe to assume the latest verison is bug-free ?

[radiant heart]

didn't manage to crash 2.2.10 yet

most early game things were already built some had to swap receipe here and there but other then that it's fine

For the later ones, ENS was still in the process of filling up, will continue this evening

[tall cobalt]

Did some more work on the wiki, including defining gathered resources and creating more lists of buildings

It doesn’t feel like progress when I am doing nothing but creating lists of dozens of red links but

wait, no, I made the page for ENS

http://whitepaws.wikidot.com/ens

also http://whitepaws.wikidot.com/gathered-resources

(As opposed to crafted resources)

Also, exactly how many tools does the mine consume?

[shell fiber]

Oh right sorry it completely slipped out of my mind 😅

I'll check for the mine

[shell fiber]

God editing this site from a smartphone is a nightmare 😣

[tall cobalt]

You could always just dump it here and make me do it lol

Do the "2-tall small storage" storages count as mandatory for the mod?

Or are they more like supremely helpful but not technically required things like Ladders

okay it looks like not having it loaded crashes the mod, so I'll count it as mandatory

[tall cobalt]

I also redirected "NO3" to "Saltpeter" because someone is going to get tripped up by that sooner or later, even though I haven't actually made the page for saltpeter yet

[tall cobalt]

15 pages today! Whew.

[shell fiber]

I think it's a dependency but I don't remember at the moment. Strictly speaking you could play without but I originally made it for this faction

I eventually split it because why not

May as well be useful for other people too

[shell fiber]

Remind me to add the wiki to the mod page 👍

[tall cobalt]

My life philosophy is basically that if something needs to be done by "someone" "eventually", I should be that "someone" and I should make that "now"

anyway I'm currently downloading 2.2.10 and after that I'll take a crack at a couple more

dams, probably

[tall cobalt]

I'm going to contemplate how I want to cover the flags and the matching houses

[radiant heart]

yes it's still a depedency

[radiant heart]

still not done with the new stuff in ENS, tried that "going to bed early" thing yesterday 😉

[shell fiber]

tool consumption for the mine (might change) :
coal/iron/mix : 1 tool / 100 cycle
Cave water : 1 tool / 200 cycles
Quartz : 1 tool / 50 cycles

yeah i can definitely double the consumtion

[radiant heart]

sounds good

[shell fiber]

ahah

[radiant heart]

in the end anyway you end up with one medium for quartz and made a second for coal just in case the mega drill gets stuck

[radiant heart]

actually Quartz could be double 🤔 afterall it's more needed for end game stuff so should be the most ressource consuming one

[shell fiber]

yeah i'll probably double all of them

one tool costs 0.5 metal, and one metal costs like... 1.666 coal and 1.666 iron ore, so effectlively 1 loop of the ore reciepe already makes up more than the cost of one tool, so consumption could be much higher

i just don't want to make the medium mine become less interesting than the small one due to tool consumption

[radiant heart]

i mean double the tool consumption for quartz, 1 per 25 cycle instead of 50

[shell fiber]

i think i could easily go for one tool / 30 recipes for ores, half for water, and double for quartz

[shell fiber]

yeah that too

[radiant heart]

smalls mines are closed except for the salt one, didn't destroy the others just in case but it's close to happen

[radiant heart]

receipes for the "abyss" seem to work just got nothing to do with them 😉

[radiant heart]

got a guy running around with minor burn even tho i got the beds and the clilnic for it 🤔

[shell fiber]

maybe he's hungry ?

my beds don't suspend those needs

[radiant heart]

will look again next time

don't think so tho

probably got him on the way back from the food or sleep i guess

[shell fiber]

to be honest at the moment i want to take advantage of many people having to update their maps to push my mapeditor mod 🙂

if i can get many maps to have natural brambles or other fun stuff, that would be neat.

opens possibilities

[radiant heart]

no stress, still 100 pencils to go before the megastructual platform research starts...

and can't do much 3x speed dropping to 10-15 fps at 3x

[shell fiber]

my thing works 🙂

[radiant heart]

"ruined path" ? just a texture name or you're introducing earthquakes?

[shell fiber]

just a name

it can be placed from the mapeditor only

[radiant heart]

something is sucking up all my water and can't put a finger on it 🤔

only thing ( i think) that i build new that uses water is the shower tank and made only one, does it consume that much

stilth house crashing my game 🤔 could it be that i started building it in previous version and finishing on 2.2.10?

will delete and try to redo

[radiant heart]

and yes, starting to build it and update before finishing was the issue

[shell fiber]

good to know !

[radiant heart]

still can't figure out what is draining my water taht fast tho 🤔

Made some changes in some things that now consume more?

ooo, building 5 clockworks famrs at once i guess consume a bit of water 😅

ok, i'm dumb

hope clockwork farms won't do the same as irrigation tower 🤞

[shell fiber]

no they don't consume water, they recyle it infinitely 😉

it just costs 5000 water to build 😅

[radiant heart]

i mean they were set in place prior to the update

so i hope they don't crash me when it gets done

got built !

[shell fiber]

enough modding for today !

got the baobab, the lemon tree

well need to see if the textures work

the grapes are in

[radiant heart]

getting "too much products" with power saving mod on the abyss even if there is none

display is of and swaps when selecting but looks like they don't gather it, or maybe it has to do with the power saver mod... the anvils were collected tho

Ooo maybe since it's already full of anvils it blocks

looks like it

yeah, once the anvils are drained it works

[shell fiber]

So basically nothing is really broken ? Nice 😊

I'll keep pushing the mapmaker mod this weekend so that people have plenty of options to choose from

[radiant heart]

but all those new cool crops/trees are just eaten raw and once dried no way back i guesss?

mmm no more rest beds? so before science injured beavers need to walk it off and that's it?

(back on my hard run, don't feel like waiting out the 700h atm)

[empty brook]

Can I get stand alone dandelions and dandelion tea mods now that the devs left me with just the cursed blueberries?

Also kinda wondering if this mod will use bad water for engines since it kinda looks like petrol

[radiant heart]

that would be cool, think dandelions planting is gonna stay and still be later game stuff but it needs a replacement for all the early stuff

[radiant heart]

think the idea was around a massive engine that burns the sequoia logs but who knows what lapan will come up with

[empty brook]

I'm just mad they're getting rid of a plant I use for decorations

[empty brook]

Maybe it uses bad water as a primer to get the log burning

Like lighter fluid, but on more of a jet fuel scale lol

[radiant heart]

lol, would need some processing first i guess since that's gonna be late game and just using it straight up lacks a bit of steps

[empty brook]

I mean any of the wind mills are easily late game

So logically an engine would be too

[radiant heart]

the taller ones for sure but the 3 maybe even the 6 can be done early-mid game

not like they produce a ton tho, better rely on water wheels specially with the bad water always flowing it's gonna make longer droughts a non-issue

[empty brook]

I like that bad water makes me use water wheels cuz they typically aren't useful in vanilla anyways.

[radiant heart]

with WB don't really have a choice to use the wheels, anything else is locked behond power

[empty brook]

I don't mind this, it's honestly the faction I've gotten the most use outta the water wheels with. Helps with water tight buildings

[tall cobalt]

I'm contemplating how exactly using houses as dams does and doesn't interact with badwater

Since pausing them is technically still cheating

Ones with aboveground access are really important of course

[radiant heart]

will not want the entrances in water like i normaly do

[tall cobalt]

Yep

[radiant heart]

wet fur was always off the charts!

[tall cobalt]

Like, the second-story entrance butted up right next to the riverbank

Perhaps a second-floor access variant of the long tiny lodge is in order?

I am also thinking about using the Pit and Ladder Lodges' front entrance to provide direct sealed access to a second damhouse that has a floor entrance

[radiant heart]

it's gonna be a lot map and luck dependant

[tall cobalt]

Yep. Still, more buildings with high or even top access may be in order

[radiant heart]

gonna need some sort of floodgate mainly i think, the one available now is a bit far

[tall cobalt]

A floodgate house??

[radiant heart]

probably since everything has to be a house

[tall cobalt]

A very very tall house with a floodgate - actually hold on let me draw this

Perhaps the gate needs to be staffed for it to have a height above zero? Perhaps if you don't have anyone in there it will remain stuck in its current position?

The Simple Floodgate Triggers mod has a thing where you can set it to one height at the start of drought and another height at the end of drought. It also has some weird schedule and time of day stuff I have never used

But perhaps staffing the lodge allows for that kind of automation?

Though the simplest implementation is to just... attach a house to a floodgate.

3-high floodgate, because the utility dam upgrade caps at 2. Possibly they could go higher than 3-high. The top of the floodgate could be walkable to ensure the top access lodges can be top accessed...

Why am I thinking about possibly having power conduction

Having the houses conduct power might not work, but if you make something buildable then someone could pass a power shaft through... hmm.

Let me think more on it

how about this for an advanced version

The idea would be that you use either one walkway side, or possibly a walkable top?, to actually access the lodges, but then there is also an extra ledge you can use to construct power shafts or pit piles or railroad tracks or whatever on

Simple one-floodgate lodge would be relatively early in the tech tree, cost comparable to a primitive dam upgrade, and then the one with the walkways would be later in the tech tree

Because bridges are easy to construct early in WBO, the primitive one could either be walkable-top or just have one tile of "balcony" sticking out the side of the top that you would then use as a platform for building bridges across... hmmmmm...

The advanced version could also be used to provide very high walkways on dry land, without ever using the floodgate part, but I think that's fine as long as you make it expensive

I'm going to go poke at the wiki more in a bit

[shell fiber]

I want to rework those actually, and get rid of the small overhang which is a relic of before I added side platforms.

Also watching disturbedZ 's playthrough make me realise that to wild be super cool to have warehouses variants of those, would give more vertical play

[radiant heart]

overhangs are a really nice visual + walkway, heard lots of good comment about those on vids. it's part of the WB signature IMO, has to stay

[shell fiber]

Not sure I fully understand your design, but I specifically think that floodgates are a bad idea design wise. As a player you surely want them, but it's the same issue as ladder as windmills : they're so efficient that they make everything obsolete, and therefore they are bad to the game.

I saw a video of eldgames in which he defeats the badtide event completely with 3 floodgates, which should have been the entire purpose of the update. Basically making his playthrough revert to update4. Honestly that was almost depressing

[radiant heart]

yeah disturbedz got a nice serie going on, was about to go for thousand island on that run but caught his vids and decided to do other stuff

[shell fiber]

What I'm most likely going to do is make "water drainage" houses or something like that, basically a house with a big pipe on the first floor that can open the valves to drain the dam. (Works like the mechanical water pumps or knatte's big pipes)

So you still should play be making a water reservoir, but it gets pulled whenever a badtide comes, at which point you have to drain it entirely up clean it, and hopefully get it filled back up before the next drought

[radiant heart]

i see a way with irrigation towers/water dumb where you have to make the entire colony far from the main flow but building time and all the balance is not there, maybe with the shitty irrigation tower buffed, think lower consumption over bigger range

[tall cobalt]

IDK, I can see someone making a sort of "entry reservoir" ringed with like five utility dams

At some point you really do have to be like "it is physically possible to play the game this way but I'd prefer you not because it's not the intended experience", like you are with the damhouses

Defeating the badtide with three floodgates is something that they are probably gonna deal with before the patch gets pushed from experimental to main

Perhaps the floodgates could have "lag time", where they take several hours to open and close?

...I will also note, the fact that utility dams always have a 0.5 dam at the bottom makes this... actually an issue in your mod? You can't totally flush the reservoir

[tall cobalt]

Like, because the alternative is building and demolishing a house whenever they want flow added or removed

Which is only not practical because it is somewhat unpredictable when beaver builders will get there

...Hm. Are you proposing a mechanical water pump/house that doesn't require endgame resources and genuinely excessive amounts of power to run in lieu of floodgates?

Because that's always been my issue with the Mechanical Water Pump, the fact that it takes a significant amount of time and tech tree to get there so it's just not something I design for ever

But no, seriously, this is still going to be an issue no matter what kind of water management you try to introduce to the game. Badtide being able to be defeated by building a relatively small waterbox around the source, and turning something off and just letting the badtide run off a shorter edge on the side, is always going to be an option. Even if you have the reservoir, you can just put another pump house or two on the opposite side of the reservoir and turn them on during badtide instead

Like, there's no "drain and clean" if you wall off the source closely enough, this is just always going to be a thing

And in fact the thing you did with the utility dam upgrade where it always retains the 0.5 blocks regardless of what you do is really the only thing I have seen that can make it even slightly difficult

[tall cobalt]

Do brambles actually take longer to cut down than other types of trees or is that placebo effect?

[radiant heart]

they are LLoooooonnnng to cut/ delete

lapan could correct me but i think atm it's 8h cut/remove and 4h collect flower

[shell fiber]

Not very expensive

[shell fiber]

Hmm ... Yes in a way it remains possible even in this mod, if you wall off the source and place floodgate dams you can get the bad tide to make an u-turn of the map🤔

[tall cobalt]

How many gears does the Gristmill take

[shell fiber]

You mean consumes ?

[tall cobalt]

Yeah, consumes per use to create weird udon or sawdust or chestnut flour

because it says 0

[shell fiber]

Would need to check

[radiant heart]

0 according to the display 🤣

And a new day is rising on pinkertown XIII

went down only to 22 on last drought! getting good at it

[tall cobalt]

Udon is a type of Japanese noodles that are thick and chewy. How a simulacrum of this is created with chestnuts and spadderdock is left as an exercise to the reader.

Sometimes you just have to be snarky on the wiki

[shell fiber]

Yeah I guess the only real fix is to place the water source basically in the center of the map, so at least it takes a lot of effort to drive it off

I'll probably make a long post about what can be done to make it more interesting. O think the best solution is to make an map edges walls (si no leaking out) and have water drains in select location, which is convenient because that already exists (water source with negative strength))

[shell fiber]

I fully support this 😂

[tall cobalt]

http://whitepaws.wikidot.com/weird-udon not kidding

[radiant heart]

it's perfect, beavers don't have to live by the hoomans rule!

[shell fiber]

I mean it is "weird" udon so...

[tall cobalt]

yeah p much

Basically I'm saying "explaining this isn't my problem" and backing away slowly

I also had to think about whether to use the word "simulacrum", and concluded that even if someone doesn't understand the word, it looks enough like "simulation" that people are at least not going to get the wrong idea

My writing just has ten-dollar words in it sometimes

(I also once described something in another piece of my writing as "rotating like a deranged screensaver", so I would like to think I'm at least somewhat conscious of what I'm doing)

[shell fiber]

https://tenor.com/view/words-trump-gif-10343307

[tall cobalt]

(I am actually a reasonably accomplished fanfic writer! That's a story for another time, though.)

anyway now I'm gonna strap in to try to do all the water pump variants

wish me luck

[shell fiber]

Nah it's good, I think it's important to not only use 4 letters words 😉

[tall cobalt]

http://whitepaws.wikidot.com/water-pump ok this is basically filled out now, except for the small aquifer pump bit

[tall cobalt]

http://whitepaws.wikidot.com/pit-and-ladder-lodge Is suggesting uses on the wiki page a good idea, or would you prefer people figure it out for themselves?

[tall cobalt]

http://whitepaws.wikidot.com/dams-houses-and-damhouses totally complete!

Um... is there any reason to make awful stew? Is it just a desperate hunger thing or

[radiant heart]

also needed in the baloons to trade with... polar bears i think

*polar beavers

[empty brook]

Sadly no use for the hooman remains yet

[radiant heart]

not the nuclear waste

would have been soon i suppose but U5 happenned

[tall cobalt]

Okay I knocked out a bunch of food buildings also

I think that's enough work for today

there are so many crafted resources though...

Ah well. Marathon, not a sprint.

I don't have a deadline to crunch for.

[radiant heart]

you don't even have to do it so... yeah, anything is something !

welll, finally had to build one

[tall cobalt]

dw, this is something to do after my last Project ended lol

[radiant heart]

cycle 17, not that bad

[tall cobalt]

also, you sure you don't want wiki access?

lol

[radiant heart]

nan, i'm good playtesting, will help out with the info and all but i'll most probably F up the pages and shits if i try, rather leave that to someone who got a clue how ti

[tall cobalt]

The traumatology ward, burns ward, and infections ward all say that recovery can be improved by "XXX". I am to presume this does not mean alcohol.

...Hmm! Should the monuments count as megastructures?

[tall cobalt]

The icon for "half giant log" has two halves of a giant log, which seems counterintuitive. Shouldn't it only be one-half?

What are minty bamboo shoots used for?

[shell fiber]

Oh placeholder text 😅

[shell fiber]

Yeah but then readability would suffer. Plus one giant log make two giant halves so...

[tall cobalt]

also I threw together a quick page for "billboards" so I could document the eaten by a monster and Napoleon's face ones

[shell fiber]

No that's good 👍
People coming to the wiki would likely be the ones looking for hints and answers so it's a good thing to have that explained

[radiant heart]

i would leave the monster out, maybe just explain the reference and put something like "build at your won risk" not telll ppl straight up it's a beaver grinder like the geotermal mod

[shell fiber]

nah, don't bother with billboards, it's better to let people discover by themselves

[radiant heart]

Hey @shell fiber is any healing source now science locked?

that's a bit harsh imo 😛

[shell fiber]

no the rest bed are not locked are they ?

[radiant heart]

what rest beds?

they gone in 2.2.10

[shell fiber]

what ?

[radiant heart]

or did you move them somewhere else?

[shell fiber]

uuh, wellbeing i guess ?

they are in the spec files

[radiant heart]

had beige lines talking about rest beds in the bepin while opening previous save and they seem to be gone had one right there

[shell fiber]

oh that's because i changed the prefab name

didn't want to get in any bugs trying to save a dysfunctionnal thing

[radiant heart]

and where?

[shell fiber]

can't you see those three beds

oh they are science locked

oh but that's fine

who gets hurt before science anyway 😅

[radiant heart]

i do 🤣

[shell fiber]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-hehehe-evil-laugh-laugh-giggle-gif-5575578285263571108

[radiant heart]

and probably not the only one, not sure where they get injured but they do

probably in the wood burner

[shell fiber]

whelp, one more reason to get that science going

log gnawing station can cause injuries

[radiant heart]

it is going but... yeah... hard mode 😅

[shell fiber]

sawmill too

[heavy lodge]

Injury ? More likely broken teeth 🤣

[shell fiber]

also 😉

[radiant heart]

cycle 18 and got like 40 science 😆

[heavy lodge]

Why the "hungry" billboard can't produce science points ? Some may found the trade ... fair ? 🐸

[radiant heart]

power one is a good "birth control" might have to use it if droughts get too long

can't remember, treb and ENS can make science too, other then that is there a lower tier one to help out?

[shell fiber]

the clinics making medication generate a bit of science

but overall you won't dodge the library

[radiant heart]

ho yeah, but it's not early really

not trying to dodge it but to help it 😉

[shell fiber]

grow more food, make more beavers 😉

[radiant heart]

cant really "grow more berries" someone made sure of that 😉

at least i saved a patch of those and dandelions but it was a close call

lots of beavers died of dehydration to make that happen

[shell fiber]

berries repopulate quite fast actually

having them really expand is something else though

but you can replant them with the tree nursery right ?

[radiant heart]

it's the lack of green space, stretched quite to the max untill i get the lido irrigation or the super irrigation tank

[radiant heart]

should, but i'm quite far from that

want the save file to look at the hot mess i'm in?

[shell fiber]

are you making berry juice and berry onigiris ? that should help with beavers eating them

[radiant heart]

onigiris yes, juice, the press is in process

gonna be for oil at first tho, want 2-3 hamster wheels until i can unlock the giga flywheels

[shell fiber]

the 5hp thing ?

[radiant heart]

yeah, had like 20 of those on my last hard run

[shell fiber]

lol

[radiant heart]

gonna see if it's also affected by walking speed like the vanilla ones

or go full retard and use some power billboards 😆

[shell fiber]

it is, that is intrinsic to the beaver powered generator script

which is slightly inconvenient for the solar pannel

[radiant heart]

the faster they walk the more solar power output is big? lol

[tall cobalt]

I will not compromise on explaining the beaver grinder. There is literally a comment on your mod that says something like "why does my settlement keep getting eaten by monsters?" and answering questions like that is what a wiki is for.

[shell fiber]

in that case you should make a redirection page for "hungry monster" 😅

but fair enough

[tall cobalt]

Also, I have a beaver in one district that has a disease. Why can I not tell him to go to the other district where I put the disease ward?

[shell fiber]

oh

the game doesn't allow i guess

but i'll rework diseases and stuff eventually

[tall cobalt]

I kinda wanted to have different specialists in different districts where beavers might travel long distances to go to the right ward for their particular affliction

I just liked the idea? It seemed realistic and cool

[shell fiber]

in practice it is quite complicated as you can see

[tall cobalt]

yea

I guess I will just have to suck it up and make more nursing licenses

[shell fiber]

but if it's for mild disease just med beds can do the trick

and i believe the medication can be transported

[tall cobalt]

no it's the serious kind

Hm

I guess I'm supposed to do the thing where I build a storage to allow import? Okay

[shell fiber]

oh

[tall cobalt]

hrm

[shell fiber]

no they can't be stored

wait cross district transport only works if there is dedicated storage ?

[tall cobalt]

Unless you manually set it to "obtain always"

It does not believe that there is a demand

For example if I am building a dam in a remote district it will not import metal fasteners until I build a metal fastener storage

This despite the fact that there is a building going on that needs them

I guess I could set it to "obtain always" and roleplay that as having the medicine mailed in from very far away but that just doesn't feel the same and also idk if that will even work

but I guess what I am supposed to do is suck it up and make more nursing licenses

for which I am just going to say "OK fine"

[shell fiber]

oh i see the issue, it is possible that it won't be delivered, because delivering to med beds is a special task

okay, i'll keep that in mind

when i'll rework it you likely won't need more than one licence per district

okay, the mapmaker mod and mapmaker mod reader are for now complete

i'll get to work on updating this to V5 sunday, maybe

GN !

[radiant heart]

GN

[radiant heart]

might sound crazy but how about making sunflower not eatable raw?

[tall cobalt]

Roasting sunflower seeds in the cooking tent? Could work

You may want to call the harvested crop "raw sunflower seeds" or "shelled sunflower seeds" to emphasize that they need cooking, if you go that route, since people may become confused if their "sunflower seeds" are inedible by WP when FT can just eat them

Note that this is going to be an early game recipe and so I would prefer that it not require any input other than the seeds themselves; mountain salt should be reserved for onigiris and up

I'm imagining "raw sunflower seeds" as input, a fairly short cooking time, and "sunflower seeds" as output - like, maybe in batches of 10 in to 10 out

Also can the "wellness" menu hide wheat, bread, and grilled spadderdock? My reaction in midgame, while scouring the menus for easy well-being improvements, was "Did I miss something? Is there a special building I need for those?" and then several minutes of anxious searching of menus

To be fair, "several minutes of anxious searching of menus" is a major part of the gameplay of this mod though lol

[shell fiber]

And people say I can't control feature creep 😅

[shell fiber]

Oh I didn't know it was still here.
I'll remove them

[storm gulch]

You are a masochist

[empty brook]

As someone who likes sunflower seeds, I must protest even the idea of the removal of eating of the glorious sunflower seeds

Look what happened to dandelions

https://tenor.com/view/avatar-the-last-airbender-iroh-uncle-iroh-tea-ba-sing-se-gif-20429743

[tall cobalt]

Dandelions could have a sequoia-cradle-style building where you could have the forester plant them, if you want to keep dandelions hardish to get during early and midgame

but idk

Alternately, the broken cart could plant them

[radiant heart]

no no no, ear me out, ( and @shell fiber too) seeds are really shitty to fill up unger but you need a lot for oil and science, a small patch could do it for those 2 purpose, problem is those twits are gonna eat them before they can serve a better purpose

[empty brook]

The solution is clearly, more sunflowers

[radiant heart]

heard that one before 😉

like with roasted seeds in the coocking tent with a not much bigger hand out but at least you can preserve the raw ones for the other stuff

[tall cobalt]

Oh, you're suggesting that the raw seeds should have some sort of processing barrier so the beavers don't eat all the raw ones before they go to the library and oil press?

[empty brook]

Wouldn't the real solution be, to have more food items that use and consume sunflowers, also meet the nutritional values of sunflowers so they are less inclined to eat them

[radiant heart]

nutritionnal value of the seeds is already super low but they will go for it to fullfill another wellbeeing buff even if it gives barely nothing on hunger

[tall cobalt]

Maybe there could be some sort of seed-and-rice-ball, in the same general vein as the way berry jam onigiris fulfill berry need more efficiently than raw berries? hrm

Or maybe there could be a "trail mix", ingredients blueberry/sunflower seed/whole chestnut

[empty brook]

I like that as a food source idea lol

[radiant heart]

nothing that complicated, just roasted seeds so you can have a way to decide if they it eat or press/science it

[empty brook]

Any way to make it so the sunflower oil in cooked foods could chip away at the nutrition value, allowing them to reach for other foods more often?

[tall cobalt]

Okay, I gotta ask again - what are minty bamboo shoots for? They are not edible, are they a trading good or something?

[tall cobalt]

There is a stray "<color=#green>" in the description of the Mega platform

[tall cobalt]

Does the megastructure engineer lodge provide Nice View? Spacious House?

[tall cobalt]

There is also a Need for "freshwater laminaria" that likewise does not appear to have anything to satisfy it. I checked scrollback and apparently you added it as a hydroponic farm at some point and then... presumably removed it?

[shell fiber]

I don't think it does, this is the last building I made so it might miss some features 🤔

[shell fiber]

Yep, removed

Need to erase the need too

[shell fiber]

Well that's the same issue as for berries actually. They try to eat them as you try to use them for other things. That's how I expected things to be honestly, but I don't know how annoying that is

I like the trail mix idea to be honest, but a sunflower seed onigiri seems that is most practical. I'm pretty sure the green stew (vegetable stew) also gives more sunflower seed need value that the ingredients alone

(there is a very good reason to make advanced foods)

But also making sunflower seeds inedible on their own would bleed on the other factions because consumable item properties are fixed and not faction dependant

[tall cobalt]

Still a question I need answered

[shell fiber]

Oh sorry ! They're used for the frost balm but I'll probably add some other uses later

[radiant heart]

it's super annoying 😅 berries i guess is fine since it's basically the step 0 of feeding beavers. Seeds tho since you have to plant them feels a bit more shitty when you can't do what you wanna do with them cauz they get eaten super fast and are crap to fill up unger

[radiant heart]

well since you can't play other factions anyway with the WB active, i don't really see the issue there ( or just in the background call them something else that would not affect the others)

[tall cobalt]

Something I wrote on the Scavenger Flag page

Some custom maps use aboveground ruins to gate progression: because you cannot delete ruins, access to certain areas will be physically barred until one has a scavenger flag to harvest the ruins (and, implicitly, enough science to acquire said scavenger flag). Because the Whitepaws have the scavenger flag unlocked immediately, these maps may not play as intended. It is pretty obvious when a map is doing that, though, and if you really want to block off an area, you can build a line of unusable unconnected flags.

Advice on making things harder for yourself

[radiant heart]

is lido science locked in vanilla factions?

[empty brook]

You can totally play other factions with WB mod active

At least in u4 lol

Eagerly awaiting to see what @shell fiber will do with the bad water in u5 once that's all ready

[empty brook]

Is there a way to make them bias against the blueberries like the iron teeth?

[radiant heart]

he's on it, nothing should happen to the WB untill he manages the u5 thing

like 2.2.10 is most probably the last version not compatible with U5

[empty brook]

Cool, I'll update my u4 install and see what it breaks sometime

Or just start a new playthrough

My old one was kinda full

[radiant heart]

started a new one a tad to close to U5 so i'm not messing with that yet, gonna enjoy my last U4 run intil they force it uppon us

22 cycles in, finally unlocked the "minor injury" med bed 😆

[empty brook]

WB injury before medicine: "paper cut? Nice knowing you"

[shell fiber]

Okay ! i'm back

let's slay some bugs !

[late wasp]

Question: What are the pink birch trees?

[shell fiber]

Everblossoms 🙂
pink trees always blooming 🙂

(that doesn't exist in real life)

[shell fiber]

Ahah !

[radiant heart]

right in time, almost conquered hard mode, made it over 25D droughts without too many deaths and i guess it won't last many more cycles before i see if a 30D is survivable, once that's done i'll be all set to test ou U5 stuff 😉

[tall cobalt]

...can WP get hot springs instead of mudbaths?

What you do is, it's basically the model for the mudbath, except it needs to go in a 2x2 and 12 units deep hole in the ground, completely surrounded by also ground. Blasting this kind of ludicrously deep hole will require both dynamite and access to a tall enough piece of terrain, most likely a mountain, which is rarely easy to access from the starting location.

The building cost should probably be tweaked to better fit the mod. Whether you still also require a power hookup can be your business, but I think it is unnecessary given the super high mountain thing? Or perhaps it consumes some other resource

Then the actual 3D model is just the mud bath, only you have water inside instead of mud, and copy-paste the straw from the deep water pumps to sit underneath the model to visually justify why the hole has to be so ludicrously deep. It can still sit four beavers in the same locations and have the same entrance and everything

[tall cobalt]

The description for "Farm upgrade - assistant farmers" still says it cannot plant crops even though you moved green peas there

[tall cobalt]

Similarly, the description for "Large farmhouse" says it "Can only plank pumpkins !", which is wrong twice: It is "plant" not "plank", and it can also plant spadderdock now

[crimson ferry]

/

[radiant heart]

Well, looks like most of the chaos is sunflower seeds, removed them all and everything is running smooth, not sure how big the nerf is on feeding but it might be a bit too intense

[shell fiber]

I'll probably go with the mixed seeds onigiri, something like 10 rice, 3 sunflower seeds and 3 chestnuts for 16-20 onigiris that each fill 0.1 of each need. So basically you get 1.6-2 points of need for an initial input of 0.6. Which should divide they consumption of raw seeds by three

[radiant heart]

will have to try out the removal of seeds on my test run and see if it really clears the chaos

worked on the hard helix one at least

[shell fiber]

I don't really want to remove the raw edibility, I think that's part of the point of cooking stuff

[radiant heart]

raw seed gives how much on hunger?

that's the only issue IMO

[shell fiber]

But sunflower are a bit slow to harvest so it's best to plant them near a large farmhouse to benefit from the huge harvesting power

[shell fiber]

It's a standard foodstuff so I guess 0.3 hunger and 0.2 of the specific needs

The main issue being it's the worst crop

5 days for 2 units of food and 2h harvesting time

[radiant heart]

how bad is it? might be the other issue then but still have a lot of food so... it's like a drug once they had it they want that one need filled and as soon as one is available they walk all over the place to get it? kinda like water when everyone is thirsty?

[shell fiber]

I never really faced this behaviour so I don't know what causes it

[radiant heart]

kinda why you introduced berry juice at first, to prevent a situation where everyone needs one thing and stop working as soon as one is available all beavers rush to it

[radiant heart]

want my gentle canyon save?

[shell fiber]

Ah I see what you mean. Yes the original reason was to give manufactured drinks to get out of thirst chaos faster

I suppose the same can happen with starvation too

[shell fiber]

Probably won't have time to actually check it any time soon tbh 😅

The mod loads on U5 but there is a weird bug

[radiant heart]

gonna keep it running a bit still, made a stable colony for 90 beavers with tier 1.5~ish buildings, as long as i have enough tanks and pumps it's working.

Starting to get into stuff like factory and mill. like if you know what you are doing, the balance is there for hard mode mostly, still gotta figure out if some real bad times were due to my dumbness or balance stuff 🤣

Yay watertight farms!

otherwise that cabage would be drowning

[shell fiber]

Oh you're low on something, just build more of it 😉

[radiant heart]

tanks are everywhere, the 6 days to fill up getting a bit short

[tall cobalt]

Wait, so the back of farms is watertight even though the front isn't?

If so I need to prod at the wiki page

One thing I did find in my own experimentation is that farmhouses still work even if the entrance is partially underwater so long as it's less than a block deep

However, upgrades do not work if the entrance has any water on it

(I also suggested on the page for the Nerdy Attic that for people who like "realism" the way I do, one might fill its extra storage space with comic books or wooden toys lol)

[shell fiber]

Only the 2x2 blocky part is watertight

[shell fiber]

I think I pulled the upgrade entrances back in the farm's watertight volume so it shouldn't flood unless it's covered in water

[tall cobalt]

That doesn’t match my experimentation

[radiant heart]

Loollll !!

[radiant heart]

are peas exclusive to the assistant or the farmers too can plant them? cauz atm no one is planting them it seems

[radiant heart]

ok, i'm dumb, with assistant set to harvest peas are not getting planted, swapped it and they got planted