Water Beaver Overhaul

[shell fiber]

you can cheat mode select them and hit del to get rid of them

one by one 😅

[radiant heart]

got 700 food in bank but they are dying of hunger 🤔

[radiant heart]

or cheat mode the large biofuel tank full till they all die, still doesn't solve that i have to find all those planks tank all over the place that are storing the fuel/catalyst

[shell fiber]

oh, i could just have removed those items from the item list 🤔

yeah, you can do it on your side too

go in the faction specification, and remove catalyst and biofuel from both the "goods" and "needs" lists.

[radiant heart]

plz 😇

[heavy lodge]

But, tell-him to use the copyist , or will be longer playthru series in the history of Timberborn 🐸

[radiant heart]

i told him

[radiant heart]

how about removing bots part too? got a lot of useless storage now 😆

[shell fiber]

yep did that too

(like two minutes ago)

[radiant heart]

but something is up, got food and water but everyone is starving and thirsty

[shell fiber]

are you sure everything is accessible ? i have removed the bridgehouse and the florist placement rules are changed, so they might have disappeared

[radiant heart]

didn't have either of those

[shell fiber]

what is the food you have ? if it's only amazing stew they can't overeat it

[radiant heart]

learned that the hard way couple updates ago 😉

got 9 types of food available atm

even got 4k water but theu are still running around thirsty

[shell fiber]

nothing saying "disconnected" ? i didn't change theyr behaviors, maybe they just have too much distance to cover between everything

or maybe the update caused mass confusion with the housing attribution

let's just see if it sorts itself out

[heavy lodge]

before or after the beavers dies ? 🤣

[shell fiber]

preferably before 😅

[radiant heart]

had to crank up the working hours a bit since bots are finaly starting to fade out, about halfway there

(81 left)

but since they are all incapacitated it shouldn't be an issue

[heavy lodge]

Why not a billboard to kill the bots if needed ?

[shell fiber]

i think they only die of old age

[radiant heart]

food starting to come back up, guess it was the 10h days that caused most the issue, went to 15 but still was a mess, back to 18 and food is at least stable

[heavy lodge]

Not sure, the logic it's the same for a need

[radiant heart]

gonna all pin it on the person that removed the bots while i had 200 active and going ( not gonna name anyone tho outta respect obviously)

[shell fiber]

https://tenor.com/view/the-simpsons-homer-exiting-uncomfortable-leaving-now-gif-14492345

[radiant heart]

on another note, would it be super complicated to have the "H" pad of the balloon with some indicator of what is there? when you got 1-2 fine but with 20~ish it's a bit messy to find who's doing what ( asking for a friend )

[shell fiber]

not difficult, but would require to make more custom textures

i'll think about it

like the landing pad displaying a folktail face to show it's trading with the ft ?

[radiant heart]

just like the icon of what you are traveling for instead of the "H" would be nice

[shell fiber]

seems like a good idea, but i'll likely keep that for when i'll rework the balloon system entirely

[radiant heart]

it's just quality of life stuff, not a broken thing so no rush

[radiant heart]

looks like bots were eating regular food too or idk, shit stabalized

[heavy lodge]

Nope 🤣

[radiant heart]

you brought the IT bots to the WB or just running a It run?

[heavy lodge]

IT run, just to combat @shell fiber , but, I have another update to Realistic behaviour, now 🤣

[shell fiber]

isn't that the standartd "lifetime depleted" death message or something ?🤔

[heavy lodge]

No, it's death on minimum value for a need.

[radiant heart]

death on bots is "broken down" normally, unless it changed

[heavy lodge]

Maybe .... "stuck due to rust" ??

[radiant heart]

bamboo not replanting BTW

and did anything with green peas? got some peas problem that never occured🤔

[shell fiber]

i'll check that

[shell fiber]

It's planted fine in my save

Do you have 4x terrain bounds?

Also, let's assume I remove the bones trading recipe from the IT balloon, what else could they realistically provide ? They already give coffee so it should be more of a tech resource

Ah got an idea (add usual in the five minutes of me asking for ideas)

The answer is obviously electric motors !

[tawdry bronze]

or a way to get gears cheap but slow?

[shell fiber]

oh, actually i just removed the gears and scaffolding reciepes from the university, gotta keep these architects and mechanics relevant even when all blueprints have been researched 😅

[shell fiber]

at long last !

[toxic sigil]

does anyone know how to get the second anvil for the factory?

[shell fiber]

there's a billboard for that 😉

[toxic sigil]

yeah ive got that placed im not able to make out the cycle of life buildings the billboards are in low quality

[shell fiber]

Oh well if at least you looked at them that's good 😉
You have to destroy your primitive metalworks to reclaim the anvil, complete the factory with it, and make a new anvil for rebuilding the metalworks 👍

That's what the image is trying to convey

I think the billboard are readable enough of you get the camera chose to them 🤔

Anyway, time to sleep for me 😴

GN !

[toxic sigil]

ah okay thank you yeah it was the image in the top right i couldnt make out

[radiant heart]

ouch, they are still releveant, tho i might not need as much now since bots are gone

[radiant heart]

be sure to store enough fastener first tho, i'd recomand to place the factory and let it build, when it only needs the anvil then and only then destroy the primitive ironwork to avoid messy surprises

[toxic sigil]

yeah just had that happen haha

was impatient had to rebuild it

got it going now thank you guys

[radiant heart]

is there something that makes the beavers prioritize one drink over another? feels like they all goung for booze that is in one corner of the map and no one actually drinks water 🤣

Finding the upgrade for the clockwork farm is not super intuitive, how about a sub menu with all the things they can produce and the upgrade with them? and even more simple can't it be only onee that you select the receipe?🤔

[radiant heart]

Is that new ? visual is neat !

[shell fiber]

I don't think there is any way to change visual based on the selected recipe but that indeed would be more convenient.
I'll make a sub-menu for that eventually 👍

[radiant heart]

lol, now got 100 anvils 🤣 thanks abyss, guessing it was just dumped there but will produce somethink else later🤔 or anvils gonna become a consumable somewhere?

[heavy lodge]

😮 Do you want to make an "anvil shop" ? 🤣

[heavy lodge]

Hide the image, so J C the Beard to no go mad after when the first time struggled to find an anvil 🐸

[radiant heart]

that shit is so far down the line, no way he's getting there soon anyway 🤣

you need the giant sequoia logs it's not an early source of anvil at all anyway

lido irrigation got to a whole new lvl! and it looks great, double win!!

is the radius as efficient as a lido you dynamite a hole for tho? 🤔

[radiant heart]

now tha you mention it, looks like it's open spots like the pumpkin does, no 4x4 square left to be planted

[shell fiber]

The radius of water in a hole is 15 tiles, I think this one has 18 radius, might change though because that might be too much

I don't want to make the lido obsolete now 😅

But access is complicated unless you have ladders

Oh by the way can you try to update your ladder mod ? See if the new colour is in 😉

[radiant heart]

with the size and beeing 3 high it's quite a mess to place so i'd say it's kinda normal that it's better then the lido in a way

[radiant heart]

aight, just give me 10-20 mins to exit and reload 🤣

Food tower growing nicely, was too lazy to blast all the way down and starting to regret it a bit sadly

[shell fiber]

Yeah but for example in my list advanced fake I had made a large hole to put in a lido and two river baths + a nice statue. Might be nice to keep situations where this is the optimal setup

Might reduce the range or increase water consumption to adjust. I could also play on the amount of time beavers need to spend in the bath, if I up or enough relying on this towers become prohibitive

Oh I can remove the cleaning effect 🤔

[radiant heart]

my ladders are up to date but might be something with the spec file todor made a while ago thst i don't get the new colors

[shell fiber]

Oh right

[radiant heart]

ain't the fertilizer made from the dirt removed from the beavers tho?

[shell fiber]

Yeah but that's implicit

[radiant heart]

and does it have to be a 2 part building or it's only because you felt like it and wanna toss in some stuff later like a secon layer or idk what? 🤔

lidos are still better to irrigate tress tho, taht ain't high enough to go above

[shell fiber]

Good point

[radiant heart]

removed and reloaded ladders, time to see if it chaged

[shell fiber]

It sort of has. Problem is that something cannot be a house and have visible beaver spots. that's why I reverted the mine elevator to the factory variant, the house variant was displaying beavers sleeping on the elevator platform 😅

[radiant heart]

lower them in the pit while they sleep!

[shell fiber]

Yeah they kept going up and down 😅

[radiant heart]

ladders still quite brown

[shell fiber]

But in a way the irrigation tower doesn't have to be a house (although that's also a good way to balance it)

[shell fiber]

Well that's fine at least it's not crashing

[shell fiber]

Right now it houses 3 but a 3x3 house could house 6

Basically the rule is 1/voxel

But only by full packs of three

[radiant heart]

maybe keep it down to 3 and give spacious house, having a hard time giving that buff to many beavers and i feel like end game should be able to have more of those

[shell fiber]

Yeah eventually I want to make a whole new set of basically every lodging but more luxurious

But that's not urgent

The irrigation tower gives the "nice view" buff though

[radiant heart]

i mean this is pretty much the "best" irrigation tower unless you wanna go full water extension mod, might as well give it the endgame perks 😉

[shell fiber]

Yeah but I might want to phase out the normal irrigation tower 🤔

I don't want to kill it immediately though, but I need to make it less fiddly

[shell fiber]

In that case I can make it science locked and use more advanced resources

It mainly depends on whether I can fix the normal irrigation tower in a satisfying manner

Ok which case both can stay, the large one being more of a late game thing

[stone halo]

Are the WB versions of VPS and ladder not working or just havent updated yet?

[shell fiber]

Need to check

[lone tapir]

Damn, Brambles dont die in water ;-D

[arctic olive]

Did beavers get damag ein water beavers ?

Or was that something else ?

[fresh torrent]

@shell fiber are trade balloons the only way to trade in this mod?

even with other district you own?

[shell fiber]

i have a bunch of silly death messages that can occur rarely, but that's about it

[shell fiber]

yeah

[fresh torrent]

muffins

[shell fiber]

but to be fair "trading" is mostly flavor

those buildings are essentially workshops that converts ressource X into ressourc eY

if you want to ship ressources between buildings, the choo choo mod seems to be the solution

[fresh torrent]

does that work with water beavs?

[shell fiber]

i don't think it is compatible with this faction though

in theory it should, but that would require custom specifications

we can give it a try if you want

[fresh torrent]

either that or early ways to trade between districts, cause then ur kinda stuck with one

[heavy lodge]

Sadistic mod creator say this. With the amount of planks and scrap metals needed for tracks ? Not to mention the lack of stackable platforms ...👹

[shell fiber]

but there is disctrict exchanger buildings right ?

[shell fiber]

but you can still stack houses and storage 🙂

[fresh torrent]

im not seeing anything

also just got to pumpkins

they op

but good for what u need for them

[fresh torrent]

meant for this one

[shell fiber]

it's in the village tab (but not village jobs)

[fresh torrent]

im not seeing them

[shell fiber]

i suspect if you toss that in the choochoo mod folder, there is a non-zero chance that it works just fnie

[fresh torrent]

idk how to do all that x.x

im terrrible with manual modding

[shell fiber]

oh

let's avoid then

[fresh torrent]

im trying to learn but its hard haha

[shell fiber]

maybe @heavy lodge would be kind enougth to give it a try

[shell fiber]

no problem

i would guide you through, but it's really late for me

and if any issue arises we're here for a good hour

but if you're around tomorrow

or whatever that will be in 18-ish hours from now

we can give it a try

[fresh torrent]

i sadly wont be

i go into the office tuesday and wednesdays

ill figure out something and see how far my paths will go

[shell fiber]

ahah

good luck

but you should be able to manage with the distrcit crossing

hopefully

i never actually used it more than basic testing

anyway, goodnight

[fresh torrent]

good night

[heavy lodge]

Could you check if with this in the specifications folder of Choo! Choo! mod, is working ? It should, but, never knows...

[wild ermine]

Hi, only 'just' started playing WBO... Must say well impressed how well it is designed. Kudos @shell fiber

I have 2 farm houses in water. They're fine. Just built a Farm upgrade 'assistant farmers' on top. It claims flooded.
Did I do something wrong :-)?

After building it actually took in 2 dwellers, but no workers. Saved - reloaded (without game restart) and it no longer has the dwellers (nor workers)

[fresh torrent]

they arent water tight

there is a upgrade for them i think

[wild ermine]

The upgrades list as watertight. The large farmhouse lists as "can be made watertight later"

[wild ermine]

Am on the 2.2.7c update by the way.

[shell fiber]

I'll look into it, probably forgot to adjust a little something

Ah yes I can see on your screenshot, I forgot to modify the entrance

I'll push a quick update this evening

[shell fiber]

Note that the large farmhouse is a different building

[radiant heart]

i'm torn a bit with science and BPs, BPs make it long but since makes it kinda shitty since you need the food to make it, got some stuff about that balancewise but need to make it clear before i get into giving you my toughts

[radiant heart]

i'm currently on 1.2.6 ( removed the folder and reloaded so it's what they look like with current version unless save file saved the esthetics)

[radiant heart]

not anymore, gonna have to appologize to alot of ppl i guess for spreading the way out

[radiant heart]

balloons are to get some rss you can't get otherwise, the district gate is still in for "inside" your map, baloons go in other worlds and bring back goodies

[radiant heart]

when lapantoufle sleeps and i work from home i can help out, just last 2-3 weeks been a nightmare at work and most probably gonne for still 2 weeks

[radiant heart]

guesing it's kinda like the farm in 2.2.6 but the upgrade was done the same way for the door voxel 🤔
( @wild ermine how dare you find bugs before me !!!! 🤣 , thanks)

[radiant heart]

Like at what point is basix stuff but "tier upgrade so BPs) and at the other end it's luxury so science

not sure that last one is clear, it's exactly what i'm trying to sort out

As exemple, vertical shafts, shaft extension are cool quality of life but not required to move ahead so science, not BPs, who cares ahow long some day you get it and life is easier

large farmhouse on the other end is quite a must once you reach a certain point so BPs to limit growth but don't have to starve your beavers to get is fast, it will take that time and that's it ...

see where i'm going with this?

[shell fiber]

I'll not sure I'm getting you. You're taking about the cost of researching blueprint ?

Or which buildings should/shouldn't have BP ?

[radiant heart]

nonono, just about the double cost of some buildings that need science and BPs, sometimes it feels a tad too much.

like "main shit" to progress is BPs
"quality of life" is science

just not both at the same time or a very little amount of science if it needs a BP since it's already locked

[shell fiber]

Oh I see

[radiant heart]

another exemple, the "broken kart" locks anvil and so on, they are the "BPs" to get you out of tier 0

[shell fiber]

But it's that really an issue to have stuff cost both science and blueprint ?
I think it's somewhat natural for stuff to cost both

Otherwise science becomes just overabundant and unnecessary

I think

But that's a good point

[radiant heart]

lot of stuff is super expensive in science, at cycle 85 and don't even have all monuments ...

[shell fiber]

More libraries ? 😅

[radiant heart]

basically waiting on science to get that fountain

can't even keep one full steam or i'd have some food issues

[shell fiber]

You have only the university for science right ?

[radiant heart]

128x128 map and 600 beavers

[heavy lodge]

Overabundant when all "scientist" want snacks all days to research something ? 🤣

[radiant heart]

librairis, 2 universities, 3 or 4 trebs and think there is another you dropped science in that is doing it

give me an equivalent to the number cruncher and giant log engines i'm done complaining on science 😉

[shell fiber]

Maybe you can try to rationalize your population to increase your farmland / pop ratio ? I know you use a lot of gnawing stations/ primitive paperwork and so on 😉

[shell fiber]

Ahah

[radiant heart]

building is mostly done and don't need the planks for bots so it's already done

[shell fiber]

Give me some time, I'm not even started on the nuclear reactor

[radiant heart]

no rush, but shouldn't be the power engine before nuclear? 🤔

[shell fiber]

Oh right, not enough power for the clockwork farms right ?

[shell fiber]

I don't know if I want a power engine

[heavy lodge]

and to make plutonium useless until nuclear reactor is developed ?

[shell fiber]

I'll make solar panels though 😉 the thing we discussed with @todor the other day

[shell fiber]

Just find it in the mine

I also found a neat model for fireflies

It might be giant and carnivorous 🤐

[radiant heart]

can it be an upgrade on buildings? or maybe see with @kind spire for his more roof thing?

[shell fiber]

Thankfully the beavers digging the frostpunk ruins have an endless supply of that

[shell fiber]

Problems is power connection

[radiant heart]

Ho yeah, forgot for a minute you were a dick on that one 🤣 😝

[heavy lodge]

Don't remind me. I've added a sound for them for ETS, and I have the sensation that are in the room with me 🤣

[heavy lodge]

I can imagine something like a "solar farm" with another building, a generator that must be placed inside the farm. Farm will use glass and metal to "plant" the solar panel (instant plant). Will be harvested when growth (maybe with a broken glass texture, as message for players) after some time to feed the generator the will produce mechanical power (here you can have a power connector that can make sense) ....

[radiant heart]

🤔 a building upgrade that is solar power? kinda like that super platform used to be but with power gen....

☝️ science to unlock solar power but BPs for the diffrent buildings, and a solar pannel that goes on ground noBPs but unlocks with "solar science" ... doable? 🤔

like lapantoufle said, power connection gonna be a problem, wonder if it can be in the upgrade since power gonna come from that anyway and not the base building 🤔

[heavy lodge]

That's I imagine that power generator building inside that will have that power connection.

[radiant heart]

the upgrade can use some gears depending on size and connect maybe not all around but at least have 2-3 directions it sould connet to, afer that just gotta toss a dice on what voxel is the connection and maybe rectify if some are more "natural" then others

[shell fiber]

That's an interesting idea but I don't want to put more pressure on cultivable ground, I'll thinking about a relatively straightforward building, one of the construction costs will be an electric motor bought from the Ironteeth, so it will directly output mechanical power

Because the whitepaws don't trust this "electricity" thing yet

😅

[heavy lodge]

Good point, since, maybe could have seasons and solar power will gone in the winter, I guess

[shell fiber]

Hmm... That's not within my ability at the moment but if they make seasons maybe there will be interesting scripts to reuse and abuse

[heavy lodge]

Exactly 👍

[shell fiber]

I don't think I'll need a blueprint because it will be locked behind glass for sure but what degree of complexity should I go with ? I may want to remove the iron ore to metal blocks recipe from the large foundry, but having just one recipe is sad. I was thinking silicon metal because that's an actual component of solar panels, but that is also quartz based. Which is fine I guess but it would likely be more interesting to induce a new metal from the deep mine and smelt that. Or some variation of this idea

[kind spire]

Solar panels?

This is very interesting

[shell fiber]

Well behind the curtains is going to be a running wheel reskin, the easiest way for me to make it work only daytime is to have a beaver activate it, or should I say "supervise" this definitely untrustworthy electric thing

Which aussi means I'd probably need to look into the properly that makes is produce more when beavers have movement speed buff

[shell fiber]

I just don't feel satisfied with anything but proper silicon metal 😑

[kind spire]

I feel like a generator tied to the day/night cycle would be pretty straight forward, now that’s something I actually could code in afternoon 😂

Unlike the shafts, and animation offset manager

[shell fiber]

That would actually be pretty cool 😊

Can even get it to produce like 50% more during droughts ?

[kind spire]

Yeah just on tick;
_isGenerating = _timeService.isDay
(Or equivalent)

I think there’s also a drought service too

So yeah

[shell fiber]

Oh that seems easy

But to be honest I like the idea of having a beaver supervise it

Because that means the building needs to be accessible

And also because that gives me an excuse to have Beavers get zapped 😈

Basically that's just a way to balance things so you can't just plop a million without any requirement

Not that workforce should really be an issue at this point but still

[kind spire]

Fair enough!

You could always trade with the AmpEars for silicon 😉

(Because they are absolutely going to have silicon in their tech tree)

[heavy lodge]

But, please, don't make it also watertight ! Enough with this type of buildings, or, may need to change the faction name in "Watertight beavers" 🤣

[shell fiber]

no reason to make it watertight, it's not meant as a living place 🙂

[shell fiber]

oh, that's a good idea

can you pm me that black silouette you made ?

so i can make an icon if i make a balloon

[kind spire]

Sure! I’ll get it across to you after work!

Or do you want the logo?

[shell fiber]

actually what i need is the diamond shape thing

basically

[kind spire]

Ok, I’ll probably need to make a higher-res one

Aaaaahh gotcha

[shell fiber]

it's going to be shrunk to 112x112 so no need 😅

but i think it's better to trade for the electric motor

they can make silicon i think

[kind spire]

Yeah that makes sense too!

Once I get the electrical network system figured out, the rest of the AmpEars is gonna be pretty straight forward I think

[shell fiber]

i fixed that in the update i just uploaded 🙂

[kind spire]

I should probably make a mod thread so I can shout into the void about it

[shell fiber]

that's the best part of modmaking 😂

[shell fiber]

testing results : it is not possible to have a building pump water and immediately use it through a "good consuming building" script

you can't have a factory run on its own with the production increaser script AND have the beaver workplace as a building supplier job

[shell fiber]

solar array

footprint is 4x5 as you can see

and the wiring has absolutely been made by an expert who totally knew what he's doing 🤐

[heavy lodge]

Why not solar panels small individual prefabs, with sun in name, to use rotating sun mod ?

[shell fiber]

i... don't understand what you're saying

if i make each pannel have "sun" in its name, the rotating sun mod will somehow rotate it ?

[heavy lodge]

If it's prefab, YES. Better ask @high rune .

[shell fiber]

hmm... too much trouble

plus if i do that, i need to find a good reason why they are high-tech, sun-following pannel

as opposed to dumb sheets of glass and silicon

[heavy lodge]

efficiency (high power output) ?

[shell fiber]

that's a beaver problem 😉

i mean when i say good reason

i mean "then it has to cost gears, electronics etc"

to justify it spinning

[heavy lodge]

Was an idea. You decide, it's your mod .

[shell fiber]

thanks for the suggestion

but solar pannels facing south work well enought inmost cases

to be honest, even in real life, i'm skeptical about whether this kind of spinning pannels are really worth it. like won't you eat up half of your energy stracking the sun and all ?

[heavy lodge]

But, without rotating sun mod, where is the south in game ? 🤣

[shell fiber]

especially considering computing power and stuff

[heavy lodge]

You need a arduino based controller, 2 light sensors and a small electric motor ...

[shell fiber]

plus financially too, there's the added cost of the gear and added complexity, etc

oh well crosspost i guess

at some point i had seen some ridiculously over engineered unfolding, sun-tracking smart whatever solar pannel being pitched

like... how many normal ones can i get for the price of this one turd ?😅

(personnally i'm more into nuclear, but that's an other story)

[heavy lodge]

if the occupied land value is an issue, it's wort. But, for beavers , can matter, I guess, only in Diorama 🤣

[tawdry bronze]

well rotation parts do so it takes more land area so not sure its even a real world scenario that it is better

[radiant heart]

more baloons 😲 gee wizz, gonna need to play only on 256 maps or bigger 😅

[shell fiber]

IF i make a new balloon

[radiant heart]

i mean i'm already struggeling for place anyway, not sure if i can make enough clockwork farms to reduce farming land and be able to dump in more ( still don't have enough, need like 6 per type for food related stuff)

[shell fiber]

yeah, the balloon pads take too much space, i'll make a proper zeppeling sky port or something...eventually

or... maybe if i modify the animation...

but nor right now

[radiant heart]

Maybe have a secondd receipe like "big load" or something like that, same ratio and time but uses/bring back more 🤔

[shell fiber]

Oh i just got a great idea !

at some point i intended to make some ludicrous dimentionnal storage with near-infinite capacity

i can just make it an item core, and later you can build balloons that can carry 10k items if you want

that would fix it quite well

(i'm concerned about the mass a balloon could actually carry)

(not that you really could trade riding balloons in the first place but still...)

hmmm... but still i want the balloons to have some more stackability

[radiant heart]

idk, feel like it would just make them completely broken

[shell fiber]

you still would need to load them with 10k of the stuff you provide too 😉

but that would reduce the need to one balloon of each

and of course i'm saying 10k, but could be 300 of 1500 or whatever

just a pretext to disregard the mass and volume constraints

[radiant heart]

so capcule corp is setting foot in pinkertown? 🤣

[shell fiber]

okay, solar pannel works just fine

that was the hardest part probably

next : ☢️ NUCLEAR POWER ☢️

actually going to bed not too late seems a pretty sound plan too 🥱

choices choices...

so : i want it to take water directly from the river

but i also want it to immediately evaporate it

but that doesn't seem possible

it sort of can but it's whacky and possibly crashy

[radiant heart]

i need to try that "not going to bed too late" thing, lack of sleep starting to catch up, last week was a hot mess with work and week-end was not enough to recover

[shell fiber]

yeah, i should do that too

GN !

[radiant heart]

GN

[wild ermine]

Works a treat! Thanks 😄

[shell fiber]

Oh crap I just noticed there is a bunch of mistakes in my tech tree 😅

[radiant heart]

someone mentionned in JC's server that the BP for ENS made in the architect crashed his game and the ENS still got built without it. didn't have time to test it out yet and probably won't be for 2 days if you wanna look it up maybe some typo in there i suppose

[shell fiber]

Uuh that's weird

I'll look into it

[shell fiber]

i had my architect make a ens blueprint, and no crash

but i did forget to make the ENS cost its blueprints

and some naming was wrong

[static glacier]

aint there a way to store fried rice? i have been skimming through the storage options and cant see it. Is it becaus the rice has to be kept "hot" inside the kitchen? Maybe a storage house for the cooking house to place on top with a "warm storage" would be nice?

[shell fiber]

oh, you're right, it is unstorable as of now.
yes that's essentially the idea i had, making it so that is is only edible when freshly cooked so no storage, or possibly making some sort of restaurant, but it's difficult to implement how i would have wanted.

making some sort of hot storage is actually possible, i'll think about it. in the meantime i'll make it storable in regular stockpiles nex update.

[static glacier]

i am like really deep in midgame and when going to build the medium mine, i cleared to much space so now i have been spending like 15 cycles to rebuild the missing walls XD i want it to be right there to look good

[shell fiber]

oh, ahah, well good thing there is still terraforming blocks😅

[static glacier]

yep, i am so insanly greatfull for the terraforming still in the mod. It is insane slow, but it is so helpfull and it makes sense to be slow when building it all by hand

[shell fiber]

problem i have with dirt at the moment, is that there it is a "waste product" of the large drill but there is no way to get rid of if when afk-ing, unlike sawdust that can be burned and rocks that can be thrown away with the trebuchet

[static glacier]

maybe like a "dirt-dump" that could also be build over the underground ruins? I know you have a building for above them now, but that could be one way to get rid of it. Or a pottery-class-building that uses the dirt and a bit of clay?

Or maybe something like "gold-washing" where they find gold that could be traded as a shiny toy or something. Just dumping some ideas

[shell fiber]

that's an interesting idea

[heavy lodge]

This idea are, in fact, 3 😄 Which one is interesting ?

[shell fiber]

i'm thinking more about the last one, but now that i'm thinking a bit more about it... i don't have anything really good to do with gold. if anything i could use it for electronics, but as money that's too much of a hooman thing

hmm

🤔

i'm still favoring the "remove dirt entirely" option to be honest

[heavy lodge]

Or, make a dirt dump working similar to control tower, using dust to boost workers speed in range ?

[static glacier]

maybe dirt could also be used for the great coocking tent to build it? like building the firepit out of dirt? idk... or make the mudbath consume dirt rather then just need it for building? Because marinaiting in the sauce of the beaver before you is kinda ewww and the white paws seem to be fond of being clean right?

[static glacier]

going back to the medium mine for coal and iron ore, because the haulers wont store dirt at the moment. Idk why, the stoppped doing it after i build new storage. Not killing my run but slighty annoying. Maybe there is another task at hand and they will continue after that

[radiant heart]

thing with dirt is you have to sonsume it so if it's just to build a building you'll end up with an overflow some day or anohter, i started terraforming shits i don't need to just to get rid of it atm.

Thing is terraforming is kinda needed for a woopsy with dynamite, no one is safe from an accident, maybe if dirt is removed keep the terrains blocks but made from rocks clay and logs 🤔 gonna have to choose between studying balistics or making rettain blocks

[shell fiber]

Well that's what clay is here for, dirt is not quite the same🤔

[shell fiber]

I thought about that too, but the idea was mainly to remove terrain block indeed

[radiant heart]

so you will remove dynamite too? i mean moving dirt around to change soil is quite more "natural" then blowing the F out of the map 😅

[shell fiber]

Well dynamite doesn't allow you to raise huge walls to keep water in without drawback

But I probably will leave the terrain block because it's true that's it's good to have to fix a oopsie

Only the mud bath requires water ?

[radiant heart]

you mean dirt?

[shell fiber]

Uhh yes dirt

I should go to sleep

[radiant heart]

think so, but don't think it would be super hard to swap the dirt for clay

[shell fiber]

GN !

[radiant heart]

GN !

[static glacier]

why? I rebuild it multiple times and it is now not on the lodge but on the overhang. Is the way ontop of the logde not meant to connect to anything else?

[radiant heart]

looks to me like it should connect 🤔

[static glacier]

i will wait till tomorrow to see, if it is intentional but it is indeed frustrating 😅

[radiant heart]

it's clearly not intentionnal, this should work

[tall cobalt]

Are there maps specifically built for Whitepaws? For this playthrough I paused on day 1 and modified another map to have 2-high cliffs and enclosed bramble locations using Creative Mode, but that does not appear to be the intention

[radiant heart]

any map should work, with the kart giving enough explosives to make a place for the mine

but there are no maps specially made for WB

on a first run i'd suggest waterfall to get a grip on the "how to" and then adapt to whatever map you end on

running gentle canyon atm and it's quite WB friendly but still challenging a bit

[shell fiber]

It's this thing entirely resting on side platform and squewer platforms? It should indeed work, I'll look into it
Edit : pretty sure there is a property missing in the side platforms, I'll try to fix it soon

[shell fiber]

By the way, I was also considering making those Beaver statues cost one giant log... Because they are clearly carved into one massive piece of wood no ?😉

[radiant heart]

fair enough but buff up the bonus plz since it's clearly changing the tier of the statue 😉

[shell fiber]

Maybe 😉

[radiant heart]

anyway, gonna need a crash course on well-beeing management once i figured out the basics to make the alley

[radiant heart]

been trying to figure out hard mode strat, got one small but super big issue, everything that helps clean fur early on is related to beeing in water, other then that one tiny but huge thing it's manageable...🤔

https://tenor.com/view/ray-liotta-laughing-happy-lol-gif-15802525

ok, that made my day, cracked me up big time !

[radiant heart]

yay, the farm is watertight, just realized i don't have anymore flooded building

[radiant heart]

Giant burried tank placement is ... wonky a bit mayybe ?

[radiant heart]

once in place the tank is ok, just the foundation doesn't display properly

[shell fiber]

Oh I fixed that, no problem

I'm bad at my own game, lost 3/4 of my population 😅

But to be fair, this map kind of sucks

[radiant heart]

if you need help i know someone well versed in the WB 😉 😝

[shell fiber]

I'm playing on terrace valley

Water inflow is so miserable that I spend all of my time and brain power fixing it

But then forgot about food

[radiant heart]

like bunch of high plateau and not much water source

[shell fiber]

You start in a crater

[radiant heart]

not the one i was thinking about then

[shell fiber]

Sources are high up but 99% of the water flow goes to the valley on the other side

You get like 1% of it

Not even enough to get clay from the clay pit

At least you can dam the whole thing with little consequence, flooding not gonna happen

But I think I just don't have enough harvesting power

Because I have land

Now that o have finished my amazing everything combined water tower

(this thing is way too powerful)

Like "should have a blueprint" powerful

And on the other hand since I make the old irrigation tower have far better water efficiency, I think I'll just revert it to be a ground building

The drawback will be that it's taking a but if floor space

But it will be far easier to build

And still a house

Because of course

I think I'll just increase the cost of the good water tower, but no BP

[radiant heart]

the lido/beehive/ittigation going gound you mean or the other one?

[shell fiber]

the other one

the combined one is intended to be ❇perfect❇

[radiant heart]

gonna make it way easier to use tho since the access to the top was tricky sometimes (specially until you unlock the ladders)

keep it one above ground just to mess with ppl ? 🤣

[shell fiber]

nah there's no point

i just looked at a couple youtuber's playthrough, and i'm slightly annoyed at how most people just abuse ladder litterally all the time

i don't want to remove them because they can be a lifesaver, but... they need a real nerf

like make them cost 4 Metalblock

[radiant heart]

that and maybe lock it with more science?

[shell fiber]

(which locks them after the factory)

yeah, increasing the science cost to 1000 would seriously not bother me

they just make everything else obsolete

bridges, curly stairs, platforms... everything

[radiant heart]

or just make them use a BP?

[shell fiber]

i actually thought about that too

but that's maybe excessive

[radiant heart]

actually less excessive then the 1k science

+4 metal blocks and + 1 BP sounds right to me 🤔

[shell fiber]

well unlocking the basic stairs, then curly stairs cost total 310 science, the ladder costs 300

so it needs to cost at least 500 i would say

1000 just to really discourage people from just afk-ing it out

[radiant heart]

1k gonna afk it out while the science build up

kinda where i'm at to unlock the fountain

[shell fiber]

once your colony is going well, having a library run full power should not be difficult, no ?

well i at least want the metal block cost

[radiant heart]

it is, i go no place for food growing 🤣

think it's still running on one worker in the librairy even with 600+ beavers

with the 7-8 clockwork farm it's helping a bit, might be able to push some more workers in there

[shell fiber]

can't you just build a bazillion mushroom farms ? the stackable ones

[radiant heart]

biggest bottleneck is the berries actually

[radiant heart]

you know i prefer my yellow awning mush maker 😉 and got enough of those shrooms are ok

[shell fiber]

so you can have enough food 🙂

just eat only mushrooms 😅

[radiant heart]

i can't control what my beavers eat ( or drink) they are alcoolics big time, they walk all the map to get booze instead of drinking water right by

started dumping plank tanks with booze all over the place they are wasting too much time walking it's insane

[shell fiber]

ahaha

well i guess it's time to get districts and choochoo compatibility 😅

that booze must be shipped across the world

[radiant heart]

trying to chop that down in district gonna be a hot mess, got walkways all over the place, no way it's happening on that run

[shell fiber]

how do you remove the UI for a screenshot ?

[radiant heart]

crtl+H

[shell fiber]

thanks !

that basically my situation

trapped in this cuvette

thankfully there is a nice floodable plain where i planted a ton of rice

[radiant heart]

gonna be a hot mess for suer untill you get ladders but it looks like you can escape with a lot of zig zag and log stairs

[shell fiber]

yeah it's difficult

and because the current flow is so miserable as i said, zero power

barely got the screwpress powered at 50% capacity

[radiant heart]

hamster wheels for the win!

[shell fiber]

i'm...sadly considering ti

oh, nice thing about the super-duper irrigation tower

[radiant heart]

had 2 press running only on that when you nerfed the windimlls on my hard run 😛

insert you get what you Fing deserve joker meme 🤣

[shell fiber]

well i didn't really plan it for that... but it has a spot to put a windmill

i totally deserve my misery 🤣

oh about the mushroom farm : i strongly boosted the output

[radiant heart]

the one diploma locked?

[shell fiber]

amount of shrooms per ressource is marginally better, but speed is doubled or more

yeah

and it requires to press some shrooms into shroomjuice to make more shrooms 😅

(but i calculated that in the reciepe output)

[radiant heart]

so now we are forced to make yuk stuff 😆

[shell fiber]

ahahaha

i wasn't going to waste a perfectly good yucky asset 🤣

Ah-ah !
at last !
for the first time, i found an use to this stupid thing i did !

may way out !

[arctic olive]

A ladder ?

[shell fiber]

i don't have that much science 😅

but the backside of that buildign is a very big stairs 😅

i should go to bed

gnight !

[wild ermine]

Is this by design :-)?

[radiant heart]

nope clearly something is wrong @shell fiber will have to fix that

[wild ermine]

I'm sure he will 🙂

[shell fiber]

Actually I noticed that yesterday and already fixed it, but not pushed the update yet.(someone told me there was an issue with the ENS)

But no worries, that's just the wrong name being called, and actually on this version I had forgot to make the ENS actually cost the blueprints

I have a small list of things to change so maybe I'll put a new one out this weekend

😴

[wild ermine]

Just misnamed is a bonus 🙂

Again: compliments just how well it is all thought out, designed and implemented.

[radiant heart]

that mod is just sick, most ppl i see play it jsut call it a "whole other game" plus that is codelss, it's crazy

at that point i feel like the dev of the game could just buy it out and give lapan something for all that cool stuff he made happen within the actual game limitations

[shell fiber]

🤑

[shell fiber]

@radiant heart can you check how much ram the game is sucking when playing with this mod ? In my case it's...a lot

[radiant heart]

don't really wanna konw honestly , gonna turn me to the dark side and try to optimize the F out of my consumption

[shell fiber]

Ahah okay 😅

[shell fiber]

Me : I should get on making this nuclear power plant

also me :

[shell fiber]

about to upload something a bit experimental

[distant wigeon]

Oh god, you're doing spicy butt fire for the tier 2 monument...

[shell fiber]

oh that's an idea 😅

[shell fiber]

okay, update uploaded !

tell me if your entire colony collapses due to everyone being sick/burned/injured of all at once😅

(2.2.8 is not set as the main one for obvious reasons)

[radiant heart]

that's encouraging !

[radiant heart]

had a change of heart on the irrigation tower?

well, my ENS are now useles.. 😦

apart from that nothing seems to be broken

[heavy lodge]

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/008/762/meme.png

[radiant heart]

forgot to do a back up save. kinda scared to hit play 😅

anyway getting late a bit, won't be trying that today

mmm

The warsd need medecine but can't figure out where it's made now 🤔 is that a woopsy and it should be using the pink hearts?

and is there a way to make those stackables or i need 4 clinics to have all the injury sources taken care of?

Giant pillar = super cool !

and ladder is still the cheap edition

ok, time to try that "not going to bed super late" thing ! have a good one 👋

[heavy lodge]

Cheap edition ? Watch out, or @shell fiber will make ladder to rewuire 3 BP to build 🤣

[shell fiber]

Ladder is not modified yet, I need to crack open tobbert's mod to change it and send him (unless he's okay with me outright stealing it)

[shell fiber]

That's normal, I can't replace the old bamboo with the new one because the harvestable part won't connect.
Just cut / rip it out and plant a new one

Note that I could make this better, at the moment it can technically still be planted 🤔

[shell fiber]

At the moment yes that's the idea, I don't know if I should make a big hospital, but space-wide the constraints are essentially the same

Oh but it's relying on the standard upgrade method so it has to be on the clinic

Tell me if that really feels too clunky

I can still rework the buildings

[shell fiber]

Just didn't have time

[shell fiber]

I want to make it cost metal blocks because it's just too cheap for the power level

[shell fiber]

Did you try putting platforms on the side ?

[shell fiber]

It's it still called medicine ? I though I changed that

Basically the alchemist makes a base balm, which is then used by the clinics to make each their specialised medicine

But for now I only made the "food and care" medicine for the general ward (which consumes food and balm)

Also, the balm contains some clay 😉

(what do you mean I'm justifying my weird add-ons however I can ?)

Oh I just got a nice idea

Since specialised medicine is unstorable and consumption is limited by the number of sick beavers, I can make the recipe for medicine produce science, since you learn about medicine my medicining 😅

That would likely make the whole disease and injury more palatable I guess

[heavy lodge]

But, Tobbert has reinforced ladders 😮

[heavy lodge]

Bad idea, will make player to wish beavers to get sick, for science 🤣

[shell fiber]

Oh there is ?

[heavy lodge]

YA, and lateral platforms can be placed anywhere on them

[shell fiber]

Oh right that mod !
Definitely not compatible because it uses light/heavy stackable in a weird way
But I'll take a look at the building appearance and cost

[tall cobalt]

Perhaps you can switch the clinic to being able to produce science instead of medicine, but extremely slow and inefficient science compared to the library

Umm... if I am supposed to be able to use houses as dams, what am I doing wrong here?

[shell fiber]

you can use houses like that, but buildings still get flooded if water gets above them.

[tall cobalt]

Is it cheating to pause them if they are unusable and I get the game trying to assign beavers to them and them ending up homeless?

[shell fiber]

typically in that case the best thing might be to complete your dam until you reach the ground level of the sides, then dig a channel in the ground with a primitive dam to allow water to flow without getting over the houses

i think even flooded they are usable as houses, but i'm not sure

[tall cobalt]

No they are not, I simultaneously see both empty beds and homeless beavers

[shell fiber]

oh, i see

if you leave it paused forever, i would say that's cheating, but if you're just in the process of tixing the mess i guess that's fine

not that i'm any sort of judge for that but basically if you are using the building like an oversized levee, that's probably cheating

[tall cobalt]

Honestly what I am tempted to do is build a copy of the exact same houses somewhere that is otherwise completely useless and using that to "compensate for" this game shortcoming

[shell fiber]

hmm

i think the "best" way to proceed would be to build your dam not from the bottom up, but from left to right

or right to left of course

like an entire column, then the next one, then the next etc

[tall cobalt]

I do not have an easy place to build an overflow channel so I was kind of hoping to just be able to use the center column

[shell fiber]

in that case there is a trick of sorts, which is that buildings actually only get flooded if the door voxel is flooded

so if you find the right buildings, you can arrange them so that water goes over 2 columns that have no doors

for example colums 5-6 starting from the right would tolerate water above them

hmm...

but you might hit the waterfall issue

[shell fiber]

what you can do, is build tall narrow lodges on top of each of the colums that carry doors 🤔

that would leave more space for water

yep, that's the watefall issue

😣

[tall cobalt]

I thought doing this might at least make the two rightmost lodges not flood

even if not any of the others

[shell fiber]

well in theory it should

[tall cobalt]

Maybe there is too much flow on this map?

[shell fiber]

but there is some weird thing in the water mechanics

long story short, a one-wide channel can let up to 6-7 m3 of water per second horizontally, but a watefall can only allow like 2.5 m3 or somethign ?

that's a quite ridiculous constraint

try the same thing with tall narrow lodges it should work

[tall cobalt]

...I'm just going to proceed with the "build a second copy of the same lodges somewhere else to compensate" plan. If this does not work then I am not sure anything will.

[shell fiber]

nah nah, try the tall lodges

i'm pretty confident it should work

the ones that are 1-wide

[tall cobalt]

I will manually save, turn on creative mode, and temporarily try, give me a tic

[shell fiber]

which map for the record ?

[tall cobalt]

waterfalls

but I changed it some so that there would be bramble spots available at spawn

ummm...

I tried different widths to see if that was the problem

[radiant heart]

well, having one clinic per injury is a bit over the top IMO

[shell fiber]

ahah, no just one over each door colum

[tall cobalt]

I ran it for a minute after trying each one btw

...???

[radiant heart]

nope, don't see a need for them now but they are cool!

[tall cobalt]

OK let me see

[shell fiber]

but i just checked the map, there is just too much water

it would be actually equivalent to the situation with three on the right actually

you have 12 sources of strength 1

and the river is 7 wide

[shell fiber]

but with a 5 gap you can only let 2.2*5 = 11 water

and there's 12 incomming

so you need the gap to be at least 6 for the water level to drop

[tall cobalt]

Does this mean that the side channel idea would not work unless it was also wide?

[shell fiber]

or if you can enter "creative mod"

yep, but also depend of how the water falls out

[tall cobalt]

I also have a large part of the town that is right underneath where I should put that channel

[shell fiber]

uuh

[tall cobalt]

Which ordinarily I would be like "my own consequences" about

and rebuild

But if the water flow is physically impossible then there is no point

[shell fiber]

giev me a sec

basically you won't be able to dam this effectively unless you split the stream uphill

[tall cobalt]

That is a lot of water to be giving up on

[shell fiber]

you only need to reduce the water flow a little so just a tiny gap on the right would do it

[tall cobalt]

oh hm

[shell fiber]

but you can't stop it all either way right ?

as long as the dam get filled it's good

[tall cobalt]

I was using all the water to run a long corridor of water wheels

[shell fiber]

ahhahahahahah

oh, i see

in that case uuh

i guess floodgates (utility dam upgrade) and automatic floodgate control

if that even work ?

[tall cobalt]

... I'm just going to build the equivalent size random apartment block in the middle of nowhere idea

[radiant heart]

there is no "balm" in the alchimist BTW 😉

[shell fiber]

okay, that's a solution i suppose

[tall cobalt]

Yeah I know it isn't great

[shell fiber]

oh right the reciepe call ! i forgot to change it

[shell fiber]

or you can widen the river by dynamiting / building artificial wall (houses) etc

OR

you can enter creative mode and modify the waterfall value

because honestly it's BS

but the problem is that this change won't be saved so each time you load you will need to do it again

[tall cobalt]

I think I could move some of the sources from above it to below it, I guess

again, long corridor of water wheels

[shell fiber]

that's a reasonnable fix i think

[radiant heart]

How about making the diffrent upgrades of the clinic modules so you can toss more then one on it? 🤔 kinda like the super kitchen used to work

[shell fiber]

hmm... that seems a good idea

i'll probably complete it under the current shape for now (reciepes, custom medicines etc) and see what i come up with for the shape, but having some big modular building could be fun yeah

okay, need ot go to bed !

gn !

[radiant heart]

Won't le me put platforms at the top but along the log it's fine

GN !

[shell fiber]

Intended 👍

[radiant heart]

alright, time to set shit on fire and hit play with the how the fuck will they heal !

(gonna cheat my one clinic per injury but that's it)

did i mention this looks so cool at night?

not to be a dick about it but some sort of metal collar at the junctions would make it a tad more realistic 😉 ( and look awesome )

well, planting the new bamboo crashed my game

and double crash.... Bamboo is broken ....

[radiant heart]

soloar pannel didn't crash the game but they are not plugged into the network yet

i'm clearly missing something, got 7k food, 10k water and beavers are running all over the place thirsty and starving.... 🤔

[shell fiber]

Work time ? Not enough baths ? There is a bunch of things that are set so they have to fill the need completely before going out

Or maybe it's just housing attribution temporary chaos

You're using shaft extensions right ?

[lone tapir]

Hi, where do i store the blueprints i make?

[heavy lodge]

Must build racks and place them, as many you can, inside library ....

[lone tapir]

Ohh, thanks

[lone tapir]

How can you put them on top of eachother?

[shell fiber]

there is a separate platform like building that can be placed on top of clockworkfarms

then you can place a new clockwork farm, then a new platform and so on

[shell fiber]

Oh...oh no...
what have i done...

it's working...

[shell fiber]

Aaahhh

it keeps on working 🤣

[radiant heart]

yes but how does shaft extension messes things up?

[shell fiber]

No it probably doesn't, just curiosity

[radiant heart]

got pretty much all quality of life mods that are compatible

[radiant heart]

gonna toss in baths, not sure where i can have plce for those tho but...

is bath faster then showers or it's just the amount of beavers that can use it at the same time?

[radiant heart]

10 extra showers, 2 extra baths, still running all over the place with dehydrated and starving above the head 🤔 guess it wasn't that

[radiant heart]

Water canon works but not like i tought it would, actualy makes more sence for it to work like that but gonna have to keep it shut or my precious dandelions will die!

[static glacier]

like this thought! Would make them more special

not me, responding to something not really a conversation anymore XD

when do you think will the next "stable" version of the mod be there? i am seeing all this cool stuff but i am still scared because of the pandemic i had after updating the mod XD

this problem also appears when only partially on the overhang

[radiant heart]

not sure what last live version is but it should be safe, i'm on 2.2.8 atm and not having issues but built all the clinics to be safe

[static glacier]

i am on a version from a few weeks ago XD i think i will try updating after i build the hospital XD

[radiant heart]

gonna need 4 clinics with one of each upgrade to go to 2.2.8 safely, otherwise 2.2.7 ( c or d) is safe

(actuallly don't think you can make the upgrades before moving to 2.2.8)🤔

at least not the ones specific to some injuries

[static glacier]

okay, i will try 2.2.7, that was the one where suddenly all my beavers were ill and i pray that it is fixed XD

[radiant heart]

it is fixed for sure on 7

[wild ermine]

I've got a crash on 2.2.8 - upon planting bamboo (suppose upon completion)
This is in the Exception file of error log zip:
v0.4.9.3-6c7fb02-sw
NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
Timberborn.Cutting.Cuttable.HideLeftoverModel () (at <eaf50b509f1d4839880c6965f89f4807>:0)
Timberborn.NaturalResourcesModelSystem.NaturalResourceModel.HideModels () (at <8a648256df49414a9521d0059fafd362>:0)
Timberborn.NaturalResourcesModelSystem.NaturalResourceModel.ShowCurrentModel () (at <8a648256df49414a9521d0059fafd362>:0)
Timberborn.NaturalResourcesModelSystem.NaturalResourceModel.Start () (at <8a648256df49414a9521d0059fafd362>:0)
Let me know if there is something else useful I can provide.

ENS on 2.2.8 seems fine (It build, it created mycology & metallurgy so far)

[wild ermine]

Seems sequoia get planted before the cradle is complete:
By design? unavoidable? Actually not right?

[shrewd horizon]

Hi! Perhaps this topic has already been discussed here and I've only been playing this mod for the third day... it's really great. Would anyone mind telling me how to regularly dispose of the dirt from my drill? Very often they don't want to work because of it (2.2.7c version)...

[shrewd horizon]

I thing this is only graphic glitch and yes.. actually not right. After building they work properly 😉

[radiant heart]

bamboo issue is a known one on 2.2.8, sequoia planting sithout the cradle been like that for a few versin, looks like there is no fixing it or lapantoufle just didn't get to it yet

[radiant heart]

make terrain blocks, it's the only way

unless you wanna build a pile, delete the pile, the rebblue and rince and repeat

[shrewd horizon]

ok... how make terrain block?

[radiant heart]

in the same tap as dams, houses, dynamite and all, it's the last one on the left

*right

[shrewd horizon]

Oh yes i find it thanks 😉

[wild ermine]

Tree nursery seems to suggest (priority dropdown, its graphic) it is supposed to handle blueberry, but I don't have it under planting tab

[radiant heart]

would have to boot up the game to look that one up, on previous versin it was planting, maybe a woopsy when making 2.2.8

save is quite big, don't have 10 mins to load the game atm, sry

[shrewd horizon]

One more questions - log gnaving station is the only way to get screwpress axles?

[radiant heart]

yes, you will notice every lower tier building gets one thing that is exclusive so even in the end game they don't become obselete 😉

[shrewd horizon]

That is a fact..

And mushrom juice... i cant put it to regular tank..

[radiant heart]

some stuff can't be stored, fried rice also has no storage place

and mush juice you don't really wanna make a lot of that anyway, beavers get a debuff if they end up drinking it

[shrewd horizon]

but i need 200! to nurse lincense

[radiant heart]

could it be tanks set to "obtain" are not prioritized by beavers to eat/drink from there?

[radiant heart]

prioritize haulers on the juice maker or the ENS and production should keep feeding the research, actually, didn't realize it needs that much. @shell fiber might be kind and make it storable but he likes to make us live in hell a bit so who knows 😆

[tall cobalt]

I decided to put the alchemist and handicrafter who work on explosives behind a blast shield from the rest of the colony

In vanilla this is less possible because the explosives factory runs on power, thus providing an incentive to attach it to your power grid

but no such issues here :)

(The large amounts of rubble are because I did a reorganization recently)

See also the gigantic multiple sets of log stairs, which is also there for "roleplaying" purposes

I know accidental explosions aren't a thing, I just 1) thought doing it was funny but also 2) had trouble fitting the alchemist into my existing build

so I put the alchemist in the corner first and then was like "hang on I can make that a thing"

[shell fiber]

Yeah I know about that and it shouldn't really happen, but that's how planting behaves 😓

[shell fiber]

Hmm... You probably have some leftover specification from some older version.
How do you update the mod usually ? Do you delete the mod folder and re-install or just update with mod.Io / overwrite & replace manually ?

[shell fiber]

Hmm... I'll make it storable when I have time. Need to find a good disgusting texture for that...

[shell fiber]

Oh so how did you handle that "too much water" issue ?

[tall cobalt]

Utility dams instead of any houses

I was tired of wrestling with it

[radiant heart]

the tent upgrade for fried rice storage would be much cooler then that IMO, getting 200 is not hard with haulers, if you really wanna micro manage can also drop workers in the ENS to 1 untill it's all in, no prob there , not like the other juices i've been complaining forever. this is a yuck you wanna make once in a blue moon, not a permanent thing to feed your colony

[tall cobalt]

I'm sure there was a sane way to do it but I kind of just gave up

[radiant heart]

Just do it, who cares if there is a more elegant way

[tall cobalt]

lol

[radiant heart]

my power network is a *** mess

but it ended up like that

now just gotta decide if i start PinkerTown XIII or go full retard on trying to make that baby mod i wanna try

[tall cobalt]

I ripped out like half my colony to re-stack my warehouses

so like

I care about this kind of thing?

[radiant heart]

idk, in games i can care about a really dumb thing and don't care about an important one, just has to be fun !

[radiant heart]

starting to think is it that all those fancy beverage that fill less of stuff and more at the same time hurt that much🤔

[radiant heart]

Yup, berries are not plantable in 2.2.8, another woopsy, happenned not so long ago, @shell fiber gonna fix that in a minut or less ( doesn't include loading time of the mod)

chimney on the mechanized kitchen are a Fing nightmare, they block power paths and look quite dumb flooded... don't get me wrong it looks grat but... idk, specially when under water it looks bumb

kinda sad tree nursery doesn't have some "on ground" harvestable... ( ok if bamboo worked there could be a need to keep one but otherwise once grapes, berries and dandelions are growing it's a no braner they can go away

[radiant heart]

fried rice still quite far for beeing in the tent, tought the idea was to make one of the water crop "early game" with the receipe needing oil... it's pushed quite far 🤔 even with salt onigiri, need a good map or to at lest delete the kart for the 6 dynamites
maybe "rice milk" ( basicaly boiled rice in water and you drink it, let's consider they eat the rice so it's food tho)

looks like berry juice helps a lot, never really tried it after it's been neerfed, balance is way better like taht, now dandelions are the real struggle in the librairy

[radiant heart]

Could the issue be that with the "spacious house" and "nice view" beavers are always shuffeling to get a better buff? 🤔 dropped down working hours to 15h 7k food , drops to 6,5k sometime but that's about is and total drinkables above 8k all the time

(with 660 beavers)

Geez Louise,, just noticed the updated animation of the Treb !!!! GG @shell fiber you nailed it it's awesome !

not sure if it was intended but with the super platform it saves a lot of trouble with the ladder up, don't have to cheat into a double column of ladders to go up, platforms make it work, super cool!

[shell fiber]

Wait what ? The rocks are still wrong right ?

[shell fiber]

Oh you mean the bucket and stuff ? 😅

[wild ermine]

Delete folder, install via modmanager. Modmanager crashes for me without delete

[shell fiber]

Hmm... 🤔
I guess I messed up something then

If you absolutely need to plant berries now there's a manual fix though

[lone tapir]

How can you stack them? ;-D

[shell fiber]

no i think they have the same thirst value as just about anything

[shell fiber]

fixed the berry bush issue. i probably changed it accidentally when trying to hide the old bamboo

[shell fiber]

ahahah 🤣
yeah they're a pain, but i felt that it would also be good to have some sort of stuff bothering you in the dam structures, otherwise it's just too tempting to put waterpumps on top everywhere.

[shell fiber]

yeah, now that i've added onigiris, the fried riced could be pushed back to the kitchen houses i think

[shell fiber]

basically berry-containing recipes are intended to be more berry efficient for the berry need than berries themselves. berry.🤫

[shell fiber]

i don't think beavers get to decide where they live, but it is possible that too many needs being fullfillable causes chaos🤔

[shell fiber]

megaplatforms, in the platform (sub)menu

[shell fiber]

bamboo is fixed now

i also added a bunch of new category buttons this weekend

@radiant heart what else did i have on my chopping board ?

(i'm afraid) making mushroom juice storable can wait

yeah i really don't feel like making textures right now.

[shell fiber]

Okay, i fixed the dirt issue

you can do goldpanning in the mudpit. that turns 100 dirt into 1 gold dust, then you can melt 100 gold dust into one gold bar. then...uuh, make a big pile of gold i guess ?

i'll probably try to find some excuse to use it for some monuments or whatever

or trade it for something

but for now with a 1:10k storage compaction, we should be fine

[shell fiber]

Ahahahahah !

i got yet another stupid idea

when you have enought gold, you make a big pile with it

and then you can get a dragon !

[heavy lodge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sk3hAk4iS6s Placing scroll racks funny 🤣

[shell fiber]

oh, neat ! thanks !
i didn't think it would get out before monday 🙂

[heavy lodge]

Poor J C, had to fight with windmills hell placement 🤣

[heavy lodge]

@shell fiber , bug at 42.41 into the video, or beavers has superpower to get thru walls 🤣

[static glacier]

yay, my gold idea XD i am insainly happy

[static glacier]

yes please!! or at least make it a dragon monument with a wooden/steel dragon built on top of a pile of molten gold. maybe like a gold-well

[heavy lodge]

NO, a golden dragon !

[static glacier]

uhhh yes. Could it spit fire when placed ontop of the big metal-fabrik-thing? Or it could replace the chimney on it and spit smoke

know this is very unlikly but very fun to think about

[static glacier]

50 wellbeing, kinda proud

[radiant heart]

what rock? , yes the bucket and stuff

[radiant heart]

there is a platform made of giant logs that can be built on top

[radiant heart]

true, forgot about the onigiris 😅

[radiant heart]

from the top of my head, bamboo and berries...

The Sequoia beeing planted even if the craddle is not build, did not test if you can harvest before the craddle is built ( talking about harvest, is the regular log thing set?)

did you rework on the baloons input/output ?

some way to manage dirt but i guess that gold thing will be handling it for a while

and the Fing chaos but... not sure what causes it / how to fix it 🤔

[shell fiber]

I don't think I can do much about the sequoia being planned before the cradle is complete, but I'll re-check

Wait a second...

I don't need the sequoia cradle anymore do I ?

The plan was that the cradle would cost seeds but in the end the tree nursery does

I need to rework that tree entirely anyway

For your chaos thing what I would need to do is open cheat mode and select beavers, then look in their task list see what they are trying to achieve

But I suspect it might be an issue due to your district being to big and too populated

🤔

Wondering if the diseases and injuries are going to cause issues with the house optimiser script

Do you have a lot of injured / sick beavers ?

But even that should not be a massive issue

It's only done at midnight too

[heavy lodge]

could be, house optimizer try to relocate workers to live in a house closer at possible, but, a sick or a injured beaver do not have a job (refuse to work)

[shell fiber]

Well yes that's what it's supposed to do, jobless beavers would likely inherit the houses that are not taken by workers.
But that wouldn't cause them to run like headless chickens.
Most likely they try to get 1 of X, 1 of Y, 1 of Z etc. If they are all in different locations it can be problematic

[heavy lodge]

But, you have other unfavorable wellbeing that prevent work ? Just asking, in my case swapping jobs and houses is an intended behavior since will have more chances to fulfill the wellbeing ...

[radiant heart]

nope, got one per thing and not even able to make balm so it's not clear yet how bad the situation could/should be

[radiant heart]

there is filth, injury and?? think there is a turd one...

So instead of not working just giving a major debuff like thirst, hunger and lack of sleep could prevent the chaos? 🤔

[heavy lodge]

YA, not working is a super strong debuff, but, all negative ones (with a value less then -3), prevent beavers to breed (in case of water beavers can even help, maybe) ...

[radiant heart]

at first it ight but gonna be shitty down the road when you lose beavers to the grue or whatever other woopsy made them die

[heavy lodge]

Well, any wellbeing that cause individual cumulative level of wellbeing to be bellow 0, has that effect ...

[shell fiber]

Wait what ? Beavers can't breed when wellbeing is negative ? I didn't know that

[shell fiber]

Third one is burns

All prevent beavers from working

[radiant heart]

burn is part of injury IMO 😉

[shell fiber]

Yeah but different type 😉

[radiant heart]

one of the 4 new things to deal with

still solution is the same, clinic + appropriate upgrade

[shell fiber]

I could give them a debuff when injured / sick / burned but then it's unclear if they would go to spend enough time in the hospital

[shell fiber]

I think I'll make a large modular hospital

[radiant heart]

at least we can give it a try to see if it solves the chaos?

[shell fiber]

Can try

It's easy to do manually

[radiant heart]

if you tell me how i'll try it but was actually starting PinkerTown XIII 😉

( helix hard mode )

[heavy lodge]

Could you add something like this to attraction specification {
"NeedId": "Clean",
"PointsPerHour": 5.0,
"SatisfyToMaxValue": true
} Important is "SatisfyToMaxValue": true !!

[shell fiber]

yeah i already did that for some, but it's problematic for something like the rest bed or hospital where treatment can take a few days, if they can't get out until it's full they'll starve.

[shell fiber]

okay, i finished making the specific medications : surgery kits for injuries, frostbalm for burns, and antibiotics for diseases

90% of the time it took was litterally making icons

but now i should really make shroomjuice storable because the antibiotics is using some, and we can't have a screwpress running just for that

[radiant heart]

lol, gonna have one anyway, too lazy to micro manage the press 😆

[shell fiber]

note that you would need one running for the stackable mushroom farms

[radiant heart]

you reallly want me to make one, told you i prefer my yellow awnings 😝

[shell fiber]

best i can do 😅

[radiant heart]

lol, ok, now i feel obligated... gonna do it when i get back on my gentle canyon run, keeping that one for playtesting stuff that comes up but started my hard mode run yesterday, made it to the first drought and not dead yet. i think if i can make it over the 3rd drought it will be more manageable, thing is gonna be filth...

[shell fiber]

well don't forget that the irrigation towers are much more efficient now

so you can probably get by with growing trees, then pressing them into mushroom juice 😅

also : update posted !
i'm feeling somewhat confident with it so i made it live directly

[radiant heart]

everything is fine except keeping the fur clean since only ways to clean early game need access to water, untill droughts last 10 days or more it won't be an issue but after... basicaly a race to the lido

[shell fiber]

i'm not sure the lido actually make beavers clean

[radiant heart]

no but unlocks the water dump and can make a bigger hole for lido+ bath 😉

[shell fiber]

yeah that's what i did too

one lido to fill a hole with water,

[radiant heart]

just need tp figure out if it can be done before droughts last too long

[shell fiber]

and then two bath in front of each other

and you even have a little space to put a silly beaver statue 🙂

except for the part where it needs a giant log of course 🙂

[shell fiber]

tell me if you see any issue with it !

[radiant heart]

gonna give it a go later, need to work a bit atm 😉

apart from the injury stuff and berries beeing back is there anything you want me to look at in particuler?

[shell fiber]

hmm...

nah, nothing special

just shake it see if it crashes

try to make the new medicines, see if something seem to be missing

[radiant heart]

"injury stuff" is kinda that 😉

[shell fiber]

i should try to do that myself to be honest

[radiant heart]

try the "going to bed not to late" and i'll take care of that this evening 😛

[shell fiber]

thanks

i'll just check if all ingredients of the reciepes are there and go to bed

welp, everything seems in order

GN !

[radiant heart]

GN

[wild ermine]

Blueberry is back in 2.2.9 - but kind of tempted to let it grow now it has jumped the line 😉

[shell fiber]

oh right question for people hanging around here : now that i can makde district centers with various effects (not only builder hub) would it be excessively annoying if i forced 3-4 different building in the progression to be district centers of their own ?

for example my initial idea was to make at least the ENS a district center (urban / science district), but i'm considering making the large farmhouse a district center too (for a farming district), probably the large foundry could be one too (industrial district), and so on and so on.

that could be either a way of balancing an excesively strong building (combined irrigation tower) or just a way to force the player to start using districts in order to advance.

thoughts ?

[radiant heart]

Super annoying IMO, for smaller maps it's gonna be just not fun to have to manage that, imagine having to make 4 disctricts on diaorama as exemple

[wild ermine]

Btw, trebuchet animation is awesome, and not at all defective for me 😉

[radiant heart]

not sure if it was fixed in 7 or 8, used to be a bit stiff, now it's awesome

[wild ermine]

worked in .7 😉

[heavy lodge]

There are some map even smaller then Diorama 🤣

[radiant heart]

i know, did tourniquet qith the IT early on after U4 came out, at that time it was the smallets available

[heavy lodge]

And, in Diorama, if you have Brambles, no need for farms.... Only gatherer and lumberjack flags 🤫

[radiant heart]

only eating shrooms i guess

but how do you make the kimchy for research ?🤔

[heavy lodge]

Details 🤣 Was about what you need to survive .

[radiant heart]

another thing i wanna try and see is how crazy the colony can get without destroying the kart, guess that's gonna be PinkerTown XIV. Probably not too far down the road, don't expect the hard run to last long

[radiant heart]

ice blocks it's the ones from the balloons? might wanna lower that, gonna let it run a bit and see how it goes but i feel like it's gonna be a supply issue ..

Like the extra "medecine science" with science that hard i really like having all those buildings that give a little here and there

[storm gulch]

Just checking in to say I loved Chainsaw Man

No further context offered as to why until you see in my video tomorrow

[radiant heart]

3H to go! can handle that

fun fact, removing the UI with Ctrl+H also wakes up beavers sleeping anywhere outside a house... something is messed up with the priority of sleep or something, had like 1/4th of the colony sleeping on bridges and underwarer 🤣

could that be the reason for the chaos? 🤔

ladder is still cheap edition

also something is strange with the press, worker gonna fill up the inventory before working, so had to wait days before first shroom juive was produced

Think i found a source of the chaos, "deluxe Stew" only fills up that in the hunger need...

ain't that supposed to be a super food that fills you up?

similar with coco milk and thirst

they don't get enough of the basic filled with the better ones so they run around after every trip to something

think i got something here

[thick imp]

Quick question, just installed this mod, how do I get past the firework/streamer things when I create a game?? Like tbh they're super annoying, can't see my beavers or my tc

[radiant heart]

not sure what you are talking about, you mean the skull thin with the FT or actually when starting with the WB?

[shell fiber]

That could be a possibility, deluxe stew and coconuts have their own need that cannot be overfilled, so it makes sense that they go get a tiny bit because the WB is so high, and then try to get filled with something else

I'll try to poke at that

[radiant heart]

is it possible to make the "whatever amount they take in" it fills up the basic ones?

irrigation tower sub menu made me search a bit but it's really cool, the bars were getting clunky

[shell fiber]

Well that would allow them to go eat a coconut when they really should be eating a mushroom

Also check out the farms and Waterpumps tabs 😉

[radiant heart]

i'd put the clockwork farm upgrade/platform with the clockwork farms tho, not super intuitive to go look in platfors, at least untill it can cover other buildings

[radiant heart]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-yeah-gif-25797113

[shell fiber]

I think a better solution might be to remove the food need from the coconut, hopefully that change their behaviour priorities

[shell fiber]

Oh right, completely forgot about that

[radiant heart]

and finally seen the "rock" from the treb it's funny that it shoots itselft

[shell fiber]

Oh right, good point

[radiant heart]

you nailed it on that one, it's perfect, the "shoot itself" is just a fun bonus feature !

[shell fiber]

No it needs fixing but it's kind of annoying 😓

[radiant heart]

the treb itself is perfect IMO

just the rock but at the same time it's a funny silly thing kinda like the deaths messages, idk, i like it like that

[shell fiber]

I think I'll just make the ENS a district center so effectively you will be able to just replace the tiny one

It's also because as game progresses I want to make beavers have higher needs

[radiant heart]

i get it but need to think about it, with gears and bots removed i'm not sure if more then one ENS is still needed. if 1 is enough it could sure be interesting

[shell fiber]

One should be plenty enough

But maybe I'll make an other building instead

[radiant heart]

sounds weird from the same guy that always tells me "build more" 😝

[shell fiber]

The general idea is that I want an even better town center at some point

[radiant heart]

that's cool for sure, or could it be an upgrade on it ? 🤔

i'm not a fan of forcing the more districts

[shell fiber]

Nah it would be again the "build new and destroy the previous one"

Problem is that the ENS don't have builders

And there is certainly fools that won't read the text no matter what I do

[radiant heart]

id' read it but still mess up and complain about it after 😆

[shell fiber]

But it's a big building do I can easily split the center part and make different functions coexist this way

[radiant heart]

well, did a lot of woopsies in the start, think hard run not gonna see 2nd drought 🤣 it's all my fault tho, been to conservative with the pines and ended up with severe walking time on my only 2 builders

[shell fiber]

Oh I can make a water tank shower for hard mode

[radiant heart]

would really be cool

[shell fiber]

Basically use the med bed function to run a water-consuming shower

[radiant heart]

starting to sound like an old record but the only big issu gonna be filth

[shell fiber]

That seems a fun thing to build

[radiant heart]

would sure be fun to use 😉

don't remember, is clay pot locked behind destroying kart?

[shell fiber]

It's not locked at all

Just clay and wood in a wood burner

[radiant heart]

lol, been so long since i started a new game 🤣

[shell fiber]

Which also costs wood and clay

[radiant heart]

did a clay pit but didn't remember what i had to do it for 😅

[shell fiber]

Probably metal working ?

[radiant heart]

not even close to deleting the kart, need to manage water and food first

did you crank up logstair cost? had in mind it's 17 not 20 🤔

ho yeah that reminds me, 2nd version of log stair/platform that uses some clay and less wood, since shrooms are a good early on food source would make clay pit more releveant early on

otherwise it's build the tent and then wait forever till you need it again

[radiant heart]

Ooof, down to 3 beavers, 7 days left on drought No2...

The White paw gazette is soo cool, idk why but it feels so cool

Another one for hard mode, how about making the deep pump not science lock but more expensive basically just planks, logs and resin, afterall, IT get those for free, just makin it more expensive but available doen't seem that bad

actual ratio to coock rice is closer to 1water for 4 rice, onigiris are a tad abusing water 😉

fun thing with a new run, it's so cool to have 130fps instead of 13 🤣

[shell fiber]

Always been 20, 17 is the crappy platforms

[shell fiber]

I think right now it's 20 for 4, not that far ?

[radiant heart]

not sure if you checked the things i sent for last update, nothing major stable but needs some balancing i think, there is already what we discussed about the balloons but on top of that the medecine that requires it, just didn't catch yet what building does what injury so how much is it blocking progression, unless any injury could still cure overtime by doing nothing

[radiant heart]

20 rice for 10 water

that's some soggy shitty coocking

would not want that rice 😝

Cycle 3 day 2 filth starting to hurt but the dam is in place!

[shell fiber]

Cooking rice in a water excess is a perfectly legit way of doing it 😉
Of course the "just right amount" is more appropriate for sticky Japanese rice

I think the eyeball technique is two shares of water for one share of rice

[shell fiber]

I have only so many hours to mod per day 😅
Balloons will have to wait

[radiant heart]

is the receipe balance for balloons just a file with "balloons" in the name that i could find and try to mess with?

just curious how insane it would have to be to move the ratio from 1 balloon per 100 to 1 per 500

[shell fiber]

Injury chances are not indicated, mostly everything industrial has a chance of injury. Things that uses fire have a chance of burns, and diseases are intended to be random in appearance

[radiant heart]

so in theory a run without deleting the kart could only get disease here and there still?

[shell fiber]

There is a specification file for each recipe, the contents are quite self explanatory 😉

[radiant heart]

will try and find that out like a big boy 😉

[shell fiber]

Hmm... Mines also have a chance to make their workers sick, but except that everything that triggers diseases is science locked

Also diseases don't actually spread

[radiant heart]

as long as beds/clinic/... only make the healing faster instead of rendering a beaver useless for the rest of his life

[shell fiber]

Only the severe variants don't heal in their own, the rest will get better with a med bed but still might take 3-4 days to heal

I would need to play a full run to see how bad it can get

[radiant heart]

so they die of thirst or hunger before healing ?

[shell fiber]

They can get out of the rest bed to eat I think

[radiant heart]

i hope !

[radiant heart]

on my end game run it's fine, think the worst i had was 10 injured at once

none yet on the helix

[shell fiber]

In the default bed those needs were suspended actually, which doesn't make sense to me. Useless mouths to feed is much better 😉

[radiant heart]

well, maybe have beds require food water ? i mean when you are sick it's cool to have shit brought to you when you are not alone so you get better faster !

a bit like medecine used to work, might force haulers a bit sooner tho 🤔 cauz you don't want someone to work at the bed

( or kinda sequoia craddle but corners are beds and the little square has a worker/hauler)🤔

[radiant heart]

How about a half tall levee for early game, most flows would be to much to make it super overpowered but on maps with smaller sources it could be fun to have ?

[thick imp]

Hey sorry for getting back so much later.. Yeah basically I opened up a new world with folktails, and right at spawn there were these streamer/firecracker things placed on the ground in the shape of a heart around my tc, putting out red like smoke blocking the view of my beavers and tc... also with a message on the ground saying "water beavers unlocked!" I thought it would go away after a minute so I sped up the game but it stayed. So I had to disable the mod and start over

Let me grab a picture

[radiant heart]

it's part of the game mechanis, any faction that is not the FT got to be unlocked, once you started the game and have the "insert whatever it is now" it unlocks the WB so you can just quit the game and start a new one, should unlock the ability to hit next when the WB are selected on the factin menu

[thick imp]

So I have to start a water beaver game before I can play folk tails or iron teeth again?

[radiant heart]

no, you need to disable the WB mod to play IT or FT, some modificaitons to the games menu make it impossible to play the 2 original factions if the mod is active

[thick imp]

Ah okay I can live with that. Thank you!

[tall cobalt]

I feel like rooftop terraces should be able to provide Nice View.

Like, the vanilla text for it is quite literally "A great place to talk the night away, and what a view!"

I'm aware it provides "Social Life: Rooftop Terrace" but idk it just seems like

[radiant heart]

a lot of buildings provide more then one bonus in that faction, rooftop terraace giving nice view sure makes sence

[shell fiber]

That's a pretty good point... But would it provide a nice view of it was a measly 1m above ground ? 😉😉😉

[shell fiber]

What's going on with the fire texture 😥

[radiant heart]

well, you have a "view" kinda like the irrigation tower could be in a clusterfuck of a dam and not see anything but walls 🤷‍♂️