Choo! Choo!

[native vortex]

Yeah I think I have an idea on where to place it for the most benefit

[delicate sierra]

I usually have lots of rather short sections (5-10 tracks), and two parallel tracks in opposite directions.

Looks like this...

Sometimes, I combine them using platforms when it's tight.

And a multifunctional two-way-rail + path + power combination, built just for fun.
(Putting the path on the upper levels allows everything to be build without external scaffolding.)

Btw, by now, I have 6 districts connected in a more-or-less two-way loop with turning possibility close to the cargo stations. It's one cargo station per district, and everything works well. I don't know where the notion comes from that a rail line cannot connect several districts.

[quick thistle]

Did anyone say that?

[delicate sierra]

When playing folktails, you can even replace every 3rd power piece with a windmill. 🙂

[quick thistle]

i dont remember anyone saying that ever

[delicate sierra]

It was in one of JCs videos, I think he mentioned it in #28.

Ah, it was in the comment section: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAPPMlfK3uk&lc=Ugz8CY-pA00o-cQ7UoF4AaABAg.9nAbHDyiQ3u9nAd2K6_xTC

According to my experience, the only way to get into trouble (or at least lots of busy beavers and trains) is to have two cargo stations in the same district, one exporting the same goods than the other imports.

[regal matrix]

I said that because that's what I had gathered from here

Although I haven't personally tested it

If I'm wrong I will issue a retraction in Thursday's video 😅

[quick thistle]

I pushed a new updated not as live which has the new models

Lemme know what people think and how the system that i build works.

Not final, but i think its in the right direction.

with new system i mean selecting the model for the wagons. You can change those by clicking on the train

[rich rapids]

O-O runs to update

3 district and 4 stations

And a water district on the way

The wagons forms change the resource it takes or is esthetic

[quick thistle]

havent implemented changing resources, so costmetic now

[rich rapids]

Oh nice

[quick thistle]

but thats mostly because i dont know how i want it implemented

[rich rapids]

Oh kk np

Theres and message as well

When i change the form

But its just thats

[quick thistle]

yea, i saw, but its mostly for getting feedback on the models and system

[rich rapids]

Oh kk

[rich rapids]

The caos is here!

[vestal elm]

uhhhh

[strange blade]

Ya, 3 length waiting station, now Tobbert need to make them 5 length 😮

[delicate sierra]

That will destroy much of my existing layout... On the other hand, I like rebuilding and improving.

[strange blade]

Well, you remember the changes in vanila warehouses ? 🥳

[delicate sierra]

Yeah, but it was for the better, IMHO. 🙂

[strange blade]

and now, it isn't ?

[rich rapids]

Choo Choo Timelapse!
https://youtu.be/lBof4Q4DsLE

[waxen walrus]

how do i set tracks to go in one direction? i double track EVERYTHING so i need that to be useful

[tall bridge]

Click on a track should be an toggle button

[waxen walrus]

ooooh ok

once in finish my rails ill do that

[delicate sierra]

@strange blade I think it is. 🤷🏼‍♂️

[narrow oasis]

@quick thistle

[quick thistle]

Thats for the new wagons?

Btw, i would love to try and get this ingame

If you want to ofcourse

[narrow oasis]

Yes

[rich rapids]

I have an idea about how to implement the wagon system

[quick thistle]

Might be just visual and change on type in the wagon

[rich rapids]

Can be use for more capacity of the train, for example i have a water district so maybe putting the water wagons, the trains can carry more water, lets say 25% more

[quick thistle]

OOOOOH

HMMMMM

meh

I like the idea a lot, but also feel it can feel wierd

[rich rapids]

Uhmm

Otherwise been totally cosmetic, the train can be changing the type of the wagon depending of the resourse it carrys

And, in the same time, maybe carry more things? Idk

[cobalt jolt]

is the new update out or just some tests with specific players? i didnt get the update notice in mod manager yet?

[quick thistle]

no, everyone can download it. You do have to manually select the version. Go to the mod in the manager then change the version to the highest

to prevent new players from downloading that version, but the mod became to big to share otherwise

[cobalt jolt]

perfect thanks a lot.

[quick thistle]

lemme know what you think, it cane be more unstable than normally

[cobalt jolt]

uuuuh uuuuhh lol ok i will ty

[cobalt jolt]

Actually i was missing not one but two updates, i was missing 5.7 ... AND 5.8, updated now.

[quick thistle]

5.7 was just the first, but 5.8 is better

[cobalt jolt]

yup thats the latest so thats the one i got ty

[gilded fern]

i can give u the prefab, then u can do with it whatever u want

[quick thistle]

yes please, i would love to try some thingss

[gilded fern]

because it will take a while before im capable of releasing these things

[quick thistle]

if you wanna try that, for sure do ofcourse, i dont wanna take credit or discourage

[gilded fern]

no no i just don't have the time to figure it all out now

so until then im just playing around

[cobalt jolt]

By the way @gilded fern those models you made are great, they look awesome.

Ok first try gave me a crash at start but second try worked and its running now. just noticed it took way longer to load than normal but other than that no biggies so far.

[quick thistle]

hmmm, the extra models require more load time maybe? wouldnt know what could cause that

[cobalt jolt]

no big deal an extra minute or two waiting wont hurt

[quick thistle]

a minute or 2?

how long is your waiting screen?

[cobalt jolt]

(figurative) dunno exactly how long but it took a bit longer.... normally i would say it loads within 2 minutes if i start the game from scratch from steam.

[quick thistle]

aaaah, oke

[cobalt jolt]

It was the perfect time for remo... that was an old train. 😁

playing with the new wagons saw this (just visuals). the tank wagon kinda goes inside the box wagon.

[quick thistle]

thats on load

[cobalt jolt]

its paused right now but the train is running fine, just the visuals i guess from certain angle.

i think it was only while loading, it kinda blinked and got normal

[quick thistle]

yea, thats what i mean, on load

because the size was smaller before

now the size is bigger

[cobalt jolt]

oooh ...got you, i thought you asked if it was while loading the train lol (loading at the goods station)

[gilded fern]

@quick thistle see below

does this work?

[tall bridge]

best is left click and select Export package that way it gets any subprefabs/meshes used also

[cobalt jolt]

Happy goes the new train!

[gilded fern]

thx, I try 😁

[delicate sierra]

I also just updated 5.8, was on 5.6 before. Did the size of the waiting stations change, as someone mentioned here?

[cobalt jolt]

I know the train size changed, not sure bout the waiting station size.

[quick thistle]

Nope

[kindred grove]

I wanted to suggest roller coaster cars under well-being to be used with the tracks. Some rollercoaster track parts could fit in the track section

Maybe after your satisfied with your mod

Love the crap outta this mod btw

[rich rapids]

Another Choo Choo Timelapse! https://youtu.be/AZq3FeK3Gig

[cobalt jolt]

Just a suggestion. (some images used from wiki).

[rich rapids]

In the flat wagon maybe can show the boxes of the item

The gondola maybe put the heavy stuff

Looks awesome

[cobalt jolt]

ty

[cobalt jolt]

Go to 1:20 in the video, looks like the train is dancing to the music.

[rich rapids]

Hahaha yeah!

Omg its true! xD

[waxen walrus]

Did some investigation this is what goes on irl
Gondola holds dirt, scrap and logs
Flat can hold planks and metal
Tank is self explanitory
Box carries the rest

It would be cool if there was a use for passenger rail

[kindred grove]

Lol imagine if it lets you save some of their walking distance before they get hungry or thirsty

[waxen walrus]

yeah

what if beavers took the train to work

how bout rail extends district limits?

[quick thistle]

district limits exist for performance reasons. Increasing it wouldnt make sense in that regard

[quick thistle]

what you mean? they could just use normal paths, as its probably shorter

The only instance i would see it being even a little bit usefull is jsut beavers being able to teleport between stations

which is on the todo list and already partially made

[waxen walrus]

idk it would be cool

but beavers need to live close to their job

[quick thistle]

Also, this is what i had in mind. Though logs might also be flat as i imagen them longer. But both would work.

[cobalt jolt]

@quick thistle whenever it gets decided what goes in which let me know if you want to update the chart for future use as reference.

[regal matrix]

In my current playthrough, I almost tripled the district limits and it's definitely hampered performance some but not as much as I thought it would

It is very exciting to see that you're working on beaver teleportation

[waxen walrus]

Logs can go in flat or gondola, but you need to strap down logs in flat

[regal matrix]

Also while we're here, my trains are experiencing rubber banding

Distance between cars expands and contracts constantly which is funny to look at but ultimately is something that probably needs to be fixed

[quick thistle]

thinking a lot about that, havent thought of a solution yet

[rich rapids]

My trains doesnt move, any thought?

nvm resolved

[plain summit]

I know trains work well with bridges, but does it work with tunnels as well? like with those from https://mod.io/g/timberborn/m/path-extention?
Thought about my next Playthrough and it would be awesome to have tunnel trains 🙂

I am not sure since you can place rails on bridges to connect the tracks, but not into the tunnel. Will have no access to my PC till Monday, so I cannot test myself unfortumately.

[rich rapids]

No, tunnel are just for beavers for now i think

[delicate sierra]

Sometimes, I wish there was a third mode for goods in the cargo stations - auto balance.
Import, when we're below the districts resource minimum, and export when we're above the maximum, as set in the distribution centre.

Between minimum and maximum, just do nothing (except act as storage, maybe).

[regal matrix]

That would be an excellent mechanic

A lot of other games have that functionality for trade

[quick thistle]

hmm, the hardest reason for not changing the logic for that is that im not sure how to make the UI for it

the ui in general is pretty bad, but not sure how to improve

[delicate sierra]

Just a third option "auto balanced", and a button which opens the district limits dialog, which is also used in the distribution centers.
The advantage of trains against distribution centers is that I don't have to set individual routes, just connect all the cargo stations.

(And that they don't run out of energy on large distances... )

Or maybe have your own limits, independent of the distribution centres, as the semantics are different.

hmm. Not yet thought through 100% on my side. 🥴

[cobalt jolt]

Attach a number of haulers to each goods station by placing a hauling post to it, the haulers can also go (teleport) from station to station to load/unload as needed.... (1 hauler per wagon) if theres no haulers theres no cargo movement in any station. that can take care of balance if theres no workers theres no loads to move.

[regal matrix]

I can photoshop a couple of ideas later tonight if you want. I have some specific things I'd like to see changed that are probably easier to just show rather than try to type out

[jaunty halo]

Is there any way to delete trains?

Ok apparently you can but you don’t get anything back from it

[strange blade]

Click on loco and press the delete key .

[delicate sierra]

It should drop the materials as debris.

[rose stirrup]

I'm a bit late but if you're making faction variants, my waterbeaver faction certainly would be happy about it 😅
But building designs is mostly folktails to be honest, just the colour palette is slightly different

[strange blade]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=de5zuCQxYfE Some wagons can go off-road 😮 Or, must say, off-track ? 😄

[quick thistle]

If that wouldnt be to much of a hassle, i would love that!

[plain summit]

@quick thistle could you say sth. about that? or if this is planned or even doable?

[quick thistle]

very easily doable, but no time sadly 😦

[plain summit]

nice, then I shall patiently wait for it 🙂

[rich rapids]

Wut?

Back to the Future Style (?)

[kindred grove]

Less off the rails, more of straight up selectively ignoring the rails

[rich rapids]

I fix that with the "H" intersection, the trains was turning because wanna return but there was no exit

[rich rapids]

Final Rework

[delicate sierra]

These appeared in the console window while loading a saved game. Are those of any importance?
[Warning: Unity Log] While loading Train.Folktails(Clone) couldn't reserve capacity for 20x Plank at GoodsStation.Folktails(Clone) and ignored this reservation of capacity.
[Warning: Unity Log] While loading Train.Folktails(Clone) couldn't reserve capacity for 23x Biofuel at GoodsStation.Folktails(Clone) and ignored this reservation of capacity.
[Warning: Unity Log] While loading Train.Folktails(Clone) couldn't reserve capacity for 20x Biofuel at GoodsStation.Folktails(Clone) and ignored this reservation of capacity.
[Warning: Unity Log] While loading Train.Folktails(Clone) couldn't reserve capacity for 21x Biofuel at GoodsStation.Folktails(Clone) and ignored this reservation of capacity.
[Warning: Unity Log] While loading Train.Folktails(Clone) couldn't reserve capacity for 20x Plank at GoodsStation.Folktails(Clone) and ignored this reservation of capacity.
[Warning: Unity Log] While loading Train.Folktails(Clone) couldn't reserve capacity for 21x Biofuel at GoodsStation.Folktails(Clone) and ignored this reservation of capacity.
[Warning: Unity Log] While loading Train.Folktails(Clone) couldn't reserve capacity for 22x Catalyst at GoodsStation.Folktails(Clone) and ignored this reservation of capacity.

[quick thistle]

Yes, in that time they can overfill. Very annoying to fix

[delicate sierra]

Ah, I see. As long as it only happens rarely, I'm okay with it.

[delicate sierra]

https://youtu.be/da2893Pa-NU?t=4567 at time 1:16:11
My guess why they are "empty" is that they just return to their next task in the queue, which supposedly are logs in the other direction. Maybe trains could check for outgoing transport tasks at the station they just unloaded, before checking for other jobs?

[quick thistle]

while i get your idea, think a little more about it. If it checks for outgoing, then a situation can arise where 2 stations both have outgoining, ignoring other stations that have higher need for items.

[delicate sierra]

You're right. But in the video, a single station monopolized the trains for some time, in a network with only 2 stations. Maybe some randomization, or round robin?
Maybe the real solution is more trains (instead of deleting them as JC did), to increase transport capacity, and put more one-way segments and waiting stations to increase the network capacity.

[gilded fern]

@quick thistle goods station 2.0? https://puu.sh/JCag2/6ca32054f8.png

[outer loom]

mmm, needs second texture in the roof

Is top walkable?

[tall bridge]

Ya would be great with mor contrasts

[delicate sierra]

Maybe outgoing goods are dropped on top by the beavers, while incoming goods are picket down from the door?

[regal matrix]

For my video I had messed with the quantities required for trains to move so that could have been it

[rose stirrup]

oh, i like the barrels with this texture !

[gilded fern]

suits them well, right?

[tranquil hare]

O_o am i blind or is the one way track gone?

[rich rapids]

yep

Now u can change every track like one way track

click in a normal track

and u can change it

is so much easier now

[tranquil hare]

ohhh

neat

[rich rapids]

New design. i was having problems with the enter-exit of the principal road -left road in the middle- both was sharing the same color so i change it a little bit and now works like a charm.

[plain summit]

I don't understand how it works but it looks awesome and well thought through!

[rich rapids]

Thanks! its very easy when u learn the trick

[jaunty halo]

PSA to any railroad operators: never leave your operations unattended, trains can easily glitch and cause chokepoints on a line. Usually its solved with turning the glitched train around but I’ve learned that lesson the hard way

[rich rapids]

Ye, that was the problem i was having

I like to test the trains after any changes

But the turn around system indicate something wrong with the configuration

I like that move actually

[tranquil hare]

okay i like how the one direction was changed for the rails 😄
got a 4 district train line set up

[rich rapids]

Nice!

[little shore]

so i have a single line with multiple goods stations and plenty of places for one train to sit and wait, i have a second one waiting in the spot where they get made, how do i get it to go do stuff

ok it started moving when i split up the line in a spot where it loops but the first one froze on the tracks

oh it just started moving

weird

[rich rapids]

Trains wait until are stuff to move

to actually move

[quick thistle]

I removed that button in 0.5.6

Are you updated?

[jaunty halo]

Probably not

[quick thistle]

to be clear, i removed it because it now automaticly should do that if it cannot go forwards

[jaunty halo]

That’s an interesting detail

On an unrelated note, do you think you will add cross section pieces?

[quick thistle]

as in a 4-way?

[jaunty halo]

Either that or a piece with two tracks in a perpendicular crossing but don’t connect

[quick thistle]

I havent added a 4-way as I didnt like how it looked first off all and that I think not adding it adds bit more thinking to how you make the layout.

The crossed one is not possible with current system and would require some changes to be made. Though i see that is a better solution.

I do like other peoples thought on the 4-way though, so lemme know what you think

[jaunty halo]

I meant something like this

[quick thistle]

That is not possible with current system. 1 track is 1 section, but that piece would require 2 sections.

[jaunty halo]

Ohh I see so its a signalling issue

Yeah that makes sense

[quick thistle]

Though not sure how hard the fix would be

[jaunty halo]

It could technically be made as one section but without the tracks intersecting

Not sure how that would work tho

[little shore]

what about like the 3 way but all 4, so they can come in any direction and leave as any direction

[quick thistle]

yes, that is a thing a i dont wanna add, as not having it requires more though, but i might be wrong

[little shore]

eh i think it would help organize it better

it's no less realistic than the 1 tile turns of any sort

[quick thistle]

its not that its not realistic, but more that i think its more fun not having it

[little shore]

eh i disagree

[plain summit]

not everyone needs/wants a challenge, but you can set the challenge yourself if you want to.
ATM I do a "No-Bot-Challenge" for fun, thats not to say i or anyone else should not have Bots in the game.
But if it makes it easier (especially in such a complex mod) for people I think it would be worth adding.
you could make it cost more science or ressources to reduce usage though

[quick thistle]

I guess thats pretty fair, if i really wanted to i could make a toggle in the settings or something

[gilded fern]

https://puu.sh/JCvRl/030d8b7260.png

[delicate sierra]

Actually, I'd like this kind of crossing (as it's "realistic", such things exist in reality) and can be very useful. (Although I understand it's not easy to implement it for technical reasons.)
I don't really like the Idea of the free "4-way in any direction", as those don't exist for real railways. Even the existing 3-way switch points don't really exist in reality, although - topologically - they're just a smaller version of what can be built by creating a triangle with 3 "normal" switch points. (I hope it's clear what I mean... I'm a train fain, but not a native English speaker, and TBH, should sleep instead of posting here...)

[jaunty halo]

4 way any direction diamonds exist but they’re really rare

[delicate sierra]

I use the small switches a lot, because space is tight, but they're not realistic at all. 🙂

[jaunty halo]

I never use the 1 x 1 curves

or switches

[jaunty halo]

3 way points exist for turning trains around, and Wyes (at least used to be) pretty common on railroads

As “intersections” tho they’re a lot rarer

I see your point tho

[delicate sierra]

But usually, 3-way points are not as small as in our mod, as trans just can't turn that small. Topologically, they're the same independent of the size.

[jaunty halo]

I wish we had the 3 way 2x3 but only a two way switch

I think I’ll draw some concept art for trains

[delicate sierra]

We need to make some compromises between the game requirements (squares, only 90° angles, tight space) and reality. 🙂

[jaunty halo]

Also trains - tunnel mod collab when?

[delicate sierra]

This is how a three way can be built using "classic" switch points. Topologically the same, just a lot bigger.

[jaunty halo]

It’s so eerily similar to a 3 way junction in lego where its a similar design for the tightest radii possible

[delicate sierra]

There are also fork-shaped 4-way (one way in, three ways out) in reality. Or double-slip switches, which don't really fit well with 90° checkerboard layout.

[jaunty halo]

And then theres… uhhhh

this

[delicate sierra]

I'm not sure this would pass muster in modern railroad design. No chance an ICE, TGV or Shinkanzen could pass there with 300+ km/h 😇

[jaunty halo]

It was meant for streetcars and subways exclusively

[delicate sierra]

Actually, I think this might be either tram (which has their own rules) or some special tracks for mining carts, due to the very small radii.

[jaunty halo]

Now I’m thinking about electric trains in Timberborn

[jaunty halo]

Mining carts do have small radii, but I’m not sure there’s even the traffic in those tunnels to jsutify something like this, or the space

Electric substations 😳

(Beaver) has died from electrocution

I’m sure there was a unique scenario but most of the time you just need to get carts from the entrance and to a branch and back, not really turn off and take a detour to another tunnel

[delicate sierra]

I have several ideas for powering trains:

• Leave them as they are. It's just a mod, it's fun, why bother.
• Trains need to pick up wood and water
• A coal factory which creates coal out of wood (and maybe a coal mine), and the trains pick up coal and water
• Bio Fuel (for FolkTails)
• Overhead Wires need to be built on top of the tracks, and occasionally connected to power sources via a power station.

One idea is that steam trains are a bit slower and can only have 2 trailers, and work with wood and water. Modern trains use Bio Fuel (FolkTails) or Overhead Wires (IronTeth), are faster, and can have 4 trailers.

[jaunty halo]

I’m against the idea of electricity being in the game, but coal and biofuel are definitely on the table

[delicate sierra]

Trams, Undergrounds, and small narrow-gauge lines usually have more freedom than "real" train tracks. The requirements of tracks for "real" trains (length, weight, speed, etc.) place lots of restrictions on how the tracks an be laid out.

[jaunty halo]

A while back I made a concept of a biofuel tractor (tractors instead of trains) that would run on biofuel

Also longer trains should be an option, like with a price tag per locomotive and car

[delicate sierra]

And, to be honest, noone is building beasts like those nowadays, for good reasons. (I don't even know the English words for it).

[delicate sierra]

And needing extended cargo stations (or stopping several times) to unload all cars.

[jaunty halo]

Just realized a benefit to that would be better framerates for the game, since it doesn’t have to deal with individual beavers delivering goods

[quick thistle]

The problem with longer trains is that if they dont fit on the station, that my code should change

as currently, the station is to short for the new models

[delicate sierra]

Did those even exist in the US, where space was not a concern?

[jaunty halo]

That’s also something I was thinking about. Added realism and better mechanics calls for an overhaul of the entire system, and that’s up to you if you want to dedicate your time to this already amazing mod

[jaunty halo]

Turntables?

[delicate sierra]

Yes.

[jaunty halo]

Yes

[quick thistle]

Currently i dont have time, but if i had, i wouldnt mind, as im also a train enjoyer

have several LGB model trains that i run sometimes

[delicate sierra]

I used to have LGB and MiniTrix/Arnold trains, but they're stored at my parents house and rotting since 20 years, as I don't have the space to put them anywhere in my small city flat.

[jaunty halo]

I have a few model trains but they’re all different scales and non compatible

[quick thistle]

tyhose would be also cool, right?

[jaunty halo]

What’s a tyhose again?

[delicate sierra]

Yes, very cool. But somehow, I don't see an use case, as long as we have 1-square switches and equally short locomotives and cars.

[jaunty halo]

Oh those lol

[quick thistle]

as a other model for the train yard maybe? or even waiting station?

[jaunty halo]

I don’t know how you would even work them into the game, since locomotives and cars are still conjoined you would have to make it so locomotives could detach from cars and possibly trade with other trains

[quick thistle]

the rotating part might not be feasable in that case

[jaunty halo]

Waiting station would make the most sense since that’s the purpose most turntables irl serve

[quick thistle]

though thats the coolest part xD

[jaunty halo]

This actually sounds like a cool idea the more I think about it

[novel turtle]

just throwing ideas out there (imo not the best solution)
you could make an extra type of track that has a power shaft input and that has to be put every X amount of train tracks to keep the train powered (with like a battery in the trains themselves? could grab the system of the gravity battery maybe)
would fit well with the game and seems feasible

[quick thistle]

could use the argument of a flywheel i guess?

[jaunty halo]

Sounds a lot like a flywheel

[quick thistle]

xD

that sounds decently good

[jaunty halo]

Powered rails crossover

[quick thistle]

as a power system

[novel turtle]

not a clue, I'm not that into trains, just figured it sounded good 😄

[jaunty halo]

That sounds like a nice idea actually

As an alternative to electricity

[quick thistle]

what would be downside of it not being there?

[jaunty halo]

no clue

[quick thistle]

slowdown? and if so, how much?

[jaunty halo]

Wait I have an idea

[quick thistle]

it will try to upkeep it itself, but if the power building doesnt have any aswell

[jaunty halo]

What if trains were cable cars that had to be powered by some kind of shaft or central steam engine

I’ll come back to this forum with some concept art

[little shore]

would it be possible to have an option to disable hauling between two goods stations in the same district? i had two nearby and set it up to haul wheat flour and my haulers now take all the flour back to the station it started at, which is hilarious but wastes haulers

still happens with prioritize by haulers off

also instead of longer trains, maybe trains that carry more per car

[quick thistle]

i tried this, but couldnt figure out a way to fix it.

[little shore]

darn

[quick thistle]

im sorry, for now it is better to only have 1 good in the district

or atleast, not both send and receive

[quick thistle]

i think this is doable? hmmm, maybe?

i was more thinking of just adding another wagon type

[regal matrix]

Regarding train length: what if there were modular station elements? Like you have the station building as it is now, with the three blocks of length for existing train sizes. But what if you could add additional single block platforms to either end to allow increased train length, or add something like a fluid tank platform to unload liquids into a holding tank?

Kind of like how Satisfactory treats train cargo, if any of you have played that one

[quick thistle]

sadly no, but that system idea is very good

[regal matrix]

That's too bad, but understandable

[delicate sierra]

I sometimes also wish I had some s-shaped track (like the green marked part of the switch), to just change track 1 lane. The workaround using 2 small 90° curves is a bit "squary" 😇

[regal matrix]

Also I don't think you are, but please don't feel like I'm begging for demanding anything. I understand you're doing this for fun and respect your ability to pick and choose what you put into the mod

I just get really excited for trains

LOL

[quick thistle]

i dont feel that at all xd

i love the converstation hear and all the ideas

What i love about the train mod is that its already pretty complicated and just thinking of ways to add to it is just so much fun

[novel turtle]

I usually just use the R shapes, but just don't connect the straight end

[regal matrix]

It adds so much utility to the game and helps remove so much frustration

God, I hate distribution posts

[delicate sierra]

Or to cut the lower right "straight" part, so combinations like the following are possible.

[quick thistle]

🙈

[delicate sierra]

The only Advantage is that you don't need to build the infrastructure, just a path is enough. With tracks, you currently can only cover areas which are covered by builders.

[regal matrix]

Well, not the only advantage

It also saves beaver labor

[quick thistle]

@regal matrix havent had time to watch vids though 😦

[regal matrix]

That's okay! Mine are obscenely long, I will never expect you to watch them all 🤣

[quick thistle]

i do find it fun you got a sponsor of anno 1800!

[regal matrix]

Yeah that was awesome! They just emailed me out of the blue and I was like "uhh... I have less than 4k subscribers" and they didn't care

[quick thistle]

no, that team is also incredible, such nice people

[regal matrix]

Hopefully that video does well so I can keep getting more work from them. That's the kind of thing that helps elevate YouTube from a hobby into a legitimate job

The guy I've been talking to was amazing and super helpful. Agreed wholeheartedly

[delicate sierra]

train cars on their own ways... 😂

It sometimes happens that the locomotive turns to the waiting station, then turns back and takes the long way, and the cars behind all do the same route.
(I marked the way of the first locomotive in the screenshot, I just didn't react fast enough to catch it on video, but was lucky enough that a second train came just behind so I could at least have some nice screenshot.)

The same also sometimes happens at other, similar networks, but only occasionally.

[quick thistle]

meh, its fine

noticed this aswell, havent seen what the problem is

[delicate sierra]

It's funny, not critical. 🙂

[quick thistle]

no, thats lower on the todo

[delicate sierra]

And the next video from @regal matrix - I just managed to finish #33, now it's #34. 🥳

[little shore]

my train network

[delicate sierra]

Nice!
In the left picture, it looks like you have parallel tracks without waiting stations...

[delicate sierra]

Anyways, @quick thistle , thanks a lot for that mod and all your work! If there's any way I can pay you a pizza or beer...

[quick thistle]

im fine, i just enjoy doing it

[gilded fern]

are u really turning down that pizza?

[quick thistle]

i guess ¯_(ツ)_/¯

i really really just like doing it

[rich rapids]

@delicate sierra the trains turn around because they dont have more roads to go. U have a lot of green and if a trains enter to a section, and that seccion already have a trains, they fly (?)

U need to give them more options, and more space (more sections for avoid the turn around thing

[delicate sierra]

@rich rapids That does not explain why the first train turned there (and then had to turn back when it noticed it cannot enter the waiting station the wrong way).

[rich rapids]

There is one: the train can go back

The trains dance like that because wanna turn around but theres no road to do that

[delicate sierra]

But why did it try to short cut in the first place? I'm not yet fully convinced.

[rich rapids]

That short cut is a wairing station

[quick thistle]

oh, found the bug

[delicate sierra]

The train came down the hill, took the turn to the waiting station, then turned 180° back and took the long way to the waiting station, like I painted the orange line.

[quick thistle]

That bug should be fixed in next upload

i forgot 1 line of code

[delicate sierra]

the second train did the same, but going to the second waiting station.

The waiting stations are directional, they cannot enter the other way, so there was no reason to try to shortcut. But Tobbert found the bug, so everything is moot 🙂

[rich rapids]

In my opinion its not a bug

Its logical

[quick thistle]

then i think you are talking about something else?

[rich rapids]

That

[quick thistle]

that short path shouldnt be happening, that is a bug in the pathfinding

[rich rapids]

The trains cant go back and theres to.much green

\

Do u need something like this

1 trains per color, if 2 trains are in 1 color, the turnaorund trigger

[quick thistle]

he does have a lot of green, but so he could improve with a one way somwhere

[rich rapids]

Make another line just for the road it self and cut the waiting station like in 2 instead of 1

The train have more option= less flying

[delicate sierra]

I just did a small redesign, and it still happens.

Btw, the most annoying thing when (re)building that kind of network is that builders can't cross rails...

The locomotive and all cars tried to enter the white-ish waiting station from the wrong end, then turned, and then parked from the correct side.

[gilded fern]

this is where u think ahead and make sure they can reach these spaces from underneath

[delicate sierra]

Sometimes, I also build platforms on top, then later remove them.

[rich rapids]

Any way to return to the waiting station?

How many trains do u have?

\

cut the sections on the right line

[delicate sierra]

I have 7 or 8 trains, connecting 7 (cargo) stations in 6 districts. I have some blocks of waiting stations close to most of the cargo stations.

(Yes, one district has 2 (cargo) stations - one is only exporting, the other one only importing, and not the same goods.)

[winged hull]

you need more waiting stations than trains

[rich rapids]

Thats 1 point

But even with more waiting station

The flying thing just gonna keep happen

Now i nee too much blue

When a train leave the waiting station and the other train leave the good station

One gonna turn aorung

around

Because the trains can share 1 color

Thats its the logical issue

[winged hull]

if he has trains going the wrong way then he needs more signals

[rich rapids]

The turn around defens skip that

[delicate sierra]

My other waiting stations (all in this same network)

[rich rapids]

defense

Same issur

Same issue

Too much color for all of the waiting

[winged hull]

yeah, he needs more signals

[rich rapids]

Try to use my design in yours

[delicate sierra]

It took me quite some time to get all my stations deadlock free.

With the current design, I did not have any deadlocking trains any more, and the turning was just confirmed and fixed by Tobbert as a bug in the path finding.

[winged hull]

oh no, your waiting stations are backwards

they should be pointing right not left

[rich rapids]

Nope

I just cur the tracks before a waiting station

[winged hull]

if you make this stations go left to right then it will work

[winged hull]

I meant to mark this message

[delicate sierra]

What does a short one-way section before a waiting station actually help?

[rich rapids]

More speed, less waiting

more flying

Less flying

[winged hull]

it helped before when they didnt have a direction, now it is not needed

[rich rapids]

The train wait less because the section are more short

[delicate sierra]

The waiting station should be available for the trains which just dropped goods at the cargo station. When I turn them round, the train cannot reach them.

[winged hull]

you can remove the bottom waiting station and make it go left

make it light blue

[delicate sierra]

It seems I'm starting to make typos. Should go to bed now.

[delicate sierra]

That will allow the trains to bypass the cargo station, but will not prevent them from trying to enter the other waiting stations in the wrong way.

[rich rapids]

Yes but allows to turn around a train

when its needed

Maybe the train must to go there but no for the good station

[winged hull]

trains can only enter a waiting station from 1 side

[delicate sierra]

Since some updates, trains can turn in case of emergency. And it can always pass a good station or train yard without stopping, only waiting stations cannot be routed.

[rich rapids]

yep

[delicate sierra]

Yes, exactly. And the bug fixed by Tobbert was that they first attempted to enter the wrong way, then turned round.

I should have made a video.

[rich rapids]

but hey, its a small bug, the trains still gonna turn around if something is wrong

But yes, u need to delete the top side waiting station and make a proper road

Honestly, i will just redo that setup, make it perfect and then change the others

[delicate sierra]

Anyways, I have to leave now. It's late night here. See you tomorrow.

[rich rapids]

Okay good night!

[winged hull]

if they try to enter the wrong way cant you just put a signal right after the station?

[rich rapids]

yes, actually i do that

i enjoy thinking about how to improve my setup

[quick thistle]

gn!

[rich rapids]

@quick thistle i wanna do a Cho Cho guide

[quick thistle]

oh? Epic!

you mean writing down how it works and things? get people up to speed?

[rich rapids]

Yep, and a section on it call "why my train do that"

[winged hull]

make it easy to edit 🤣

[rich rapids]

Sure! xD

[quick thistle]

0 bugs

[rich rapids]

its not a bug, its a feature (?)

[little shore]

yep i had to add in a ton of those, probably need more. they really help them from getting jammed. there’s i think 4 trains on that

i have a few waiting stations around but just having parallel separated bits of tracks really helps

[jaunty halo]

Question for everyone, why do people build their railroads with single track only but put passing loops everywhere instead of just having 2 tracks the whole way?

[little shore]

fewer tracks i guess

tho that would make it work better

two one way loops with branches off to either switch directions or get/give resources

[midnight garnet]

This Mod is fantastic. The amount of work that must have gone into it is incredible! Thank you for your efforts!

[little shore]

ah i was wondering where my trains were

[midnight garnet]

But... As a developer who writes buggy code I recognise that no software is perfect and unfortunately there are some bugs

[little shore]

guess i need to make a bypass

[rich rapids]

The train from down stay in the purple track, and the train from above are waiting the first train

That happens to me a lot xD

[midnight garnet]

The issue that I currently have is a station being blocked by a train with nothing to do that is stopping the next train dropping off it's load.
I only have 2 trains on the map and I have 2 waiting stations but the trains seem to very rarely use it.

[little shore]

i just remove and add back a dividing track

they get confused and do some fallback ghost train behavior lol

[tall bridge]

maybe would need signal to look 2 step forward and if that is blocked it stops 😉 so you can keep a intersection empty ( lower intersection where selected train is)

[midnight garnet]

does no one else have the issue with idle trains blocking stations? Has nearly killed my beavers several times when they are running out of water....

[quick thistle]

Are you using section dividers?

Clicking on straight track and chacking the box?

[midnight garnet]

yes, I have many section dividers

[quick thistle]

Hmm, could you then send in image of the siuation?

[midnight garnet]

with the update and trains that only haul specific goods this is more of an issue as a non water train is blocking the station for a train with a water delivery

[midnight garnet]

Errrm.... I just completely re-engineered my tracks to try to get round the issue. Now have another worse issue and will have to go back...

will post next time I see the issue

[quick thistle]

Rip 😦 thx if you do that

[delicate sierra]

A bypass would not help if the to train also wants to drop off at the cargo station.
I think it's better to put two adjacent tracks in opposite directions everywhere, and make sure the outgoing tracks can always be reached from the cargo station without being blocked.

You might need bridges to implement non-blocking crossings of the two directions.

This is why I don't have any one-way segments in this whole railway station - the Train on the blue segment can always get out either to the left or bottom without being blocked, making space for the next rain. No deadlocks possible.

[delicate sierra]

I only had it either during rebuild, or when there was no reachable free waiting station.

This is the simplest design of non-blocking. The disadvantage is that while the train is busy at the cargo station, it blocks all other traffic, but it takes relatively few space, and the train can always leave after being processed at the station, as there are always two ways out which cannot be blocked by any train trying to get in. (I have enough waiting stations reachable in the network at other places, so idle trains won't stay and block after processing.)

[midnight garnet]

Yes, that's how I do most of my stations.

[little shore]

making a part of one section a loop fixed some of the issues i was having

[delicate sierra]

Yes, a large one-way loop should also work, if there are enough waiting stations.

[midnight garnet]

You can see here that there is a train in the station at the top of the screen blocking the train from the ramp despite there being an empty waiting station at the bottom of the screen

[quick thistle]

And you have as many waiting stations as trains?

[midnight garnet]

I have 3 trains, 2 waiting stations. I thought that was the recommendation?

it's been stuck like this for several beaver days.

I would expect the blocking train to go to the visibly empty waiting station

[quick thistle]

Nope #trains = #of waiting stations per side of a single track section. If you have single track sections

[quick thistle]

The other one was already underway, so the station is occupied

[midnight garnet]

ok so in my case I have double track everywhere so that means I have to have same number of waiting as trains?

[quick thistle]

Correct

[midnight garnet]

the waiting station is occupied? how is that?

[little shore]

i have a ton of different track sections and they're rarely not needing to transport something so im not sure if i have 4 waiting stations any more, i know i've removed some

[quick thistle]

To prevent trains from stations going to the same station, the station is occupied the moment it tries to go there

[midnight garnet]

ok, I'll try adding another one

[midnight garnet]

I can't see in the docs anywhere the goods that the different waggons transport. We have 3 types of storage buildings but 4 types of wagons...

[quick thistle]

thats a beta release, i was testing different wagon types, but now its only visual. That does is where i want to the mod to go in some form.

[midnight garnet]

ok, sorry. I didn't realise I was on the beta

[quick thistle]

I wanted some feedback from others, but the mod is to big to share in this discord

[quick thistle]

You had to manually select that version.

But it should be stable

[midnight garnet]

I also didn't realise you were the developer! Really fantastic work. It has added a completely new dimension to the game

is it on Github anywhere?

[quick thistle]

yup: https://github.com/TobbyTheBobby/TimberbornModsUnity

[quick thistle]

oh, xD

[midnight garnet]

To give some feedback if we're going with differnet waggons I think 4 would be confusing. Have "piles" "warehouses" and "tanks" is what I would suggest to mirror the storage buildings

[delicate sierra]

The recommendation is at least as many waiting stations as you have trains. If you have e. G. 3 trains and 2 waiting stations, it might happen that two trains getting idle "reserve" a waiting station and try to get there, while the third train stays at the last cargo station (as it cannot find a free waiting station), blocking the way for the trains to reach their waiting station.

[delicate sierra]

When the train searches for a free waiting station, it "reserves" the station, so no other train can try to get to the same waiting station. So it counts as occupied although the train is not yet there.

[delicate sierra]

Version number starting with "0." are usually beta (or worse) 😁

[quick thistle]

0 for me means more that its just not finished yet, nothing else really

1 would mean it has everything that i want in there

[strange blade]

Hmm, drag and drop tunnels for trains, before version 1, maybe ? 🚆

[quick thistle]

not sure if i can even get to 1

[plain summit]

Ok my first traintrack is done i think ... a one-way around the canyon-map, 3 stops with 17 trains in total, works like a charm. This mod is officially aweseome!

now that I roughly know how it works, I would build it differently (waiting stations scattered around the map and not that far away from the station, the purple loop does go around to station and then back around each time the main station has something to deliver), but i am pretty pleased how well it works

building the big track was rather difficult though because of the range, had to use a "moving district with switching storage" 🙂

[jaunty halo]

Are the new train models in an update?

[quick thistle]

You can manually select the version 0.5.8

[little shore]

something i’d love to see is a builder train, which could lay down a bunch of tracks more easily, since beavers can’t walk on them i have to micromanage them usually

[elder tide]

I dont know, if it got reported already, but I quite often experience trains getting stuck near their cargo stations without any reason. Tried it even with a single train on that track circuit and only transport in one direction. Worst was it getting stuck after one single delivery.

[little shore]

image with the line colors showing?

[elder tide]

Mom, I start up again.

[quick thistle]

Depends on the image if its known xD

[elder tide]

Screenshotted the shortest line. It mostly gets stuck on the descend on the left or nearly completely in the station on the right.

The purple line.

[quick thistle]

Do you have circles at the end?

I dont see those

[elder tide]

They just change direction usually. Or is that a bug?

[quick thistle]

Oke, so i do need to revert that change

Wait, no i remmeber how i should prevent that

Yes, that shouldnt happen

Will look at that after my league

[elder tide]

Ok, thank you. Was already thinking about creating a District only for cargo distribution, so no hassle.

[jaunty halo]

💯 This ^^^ This is such an annoying problem when I build tracks.

Also trains keep getting stuck in this one spot over and over again, and I'm not sure why. Would updating the track be worthwhile?

[rich rapids]

That problem happen because u have the entry and the exit with the same color, both trains are waiting for each other

[rich rapids]

Make more sections with one way tracks, like every 3 tracks put an one way

[jaunty halo]

That’s a lotta signalling

[rich rapids]

And the curves and branches cut them short, more color=less waiting encounters

[quick thistle]

This bug, not sure why happening

[rich rapids]

I know the reason but its hard to explain

Im gonna upload a new Cho Cho video for references

[little shore]

i fixed it by adding another track and making the two on either side in the image one way and the new one the other way

[quick thistle]

no you dont, you are just saying things, as i sort of know why thats happening, but not 100% sure, thats why i say "not sure"

like, i apreciate helping, but you shouldnt say things that are probably false

makes it only more confusing

[rich rapids]

Ok my bad

[quick thistle]

most issues are not the how the tracks are layed out

the bug where a train is wierd on a track piece is related to the movement system

sometimes the rotation is wrong and can lead to a train not understanding where to go

in that instance, it probably is that its 2 pixel to low, therefore it thinks its in the ground

that would be my guess

[rich rapids]

My theory is, theres no waiting station and the train wanna get out of the track (return) , but it cant because the other track have oposite way so the train just stay there. in that particular case.

The lack of one way track make the train confuse and bug it self. In my opinion.

But in my experience ye, still with my setup the trains occasionally bug for no reason, they have where to turn and still fly between tracks

Choo Choo Timelapse #3! https://youtu.be/uuJYEBOQ9Ic

Maybe the video can help u guys ❤️

[quick thistle]

at what point specificyly? or just once again a nice relaxing video xD

i really like them

just five minutes of pure relax

[rich rapids]

Sadly in a test video fly action happen but doesnt record. Yeah thats the idea! I really like doing this kind of videos. I will try capture the TMNI -train movement no identified- on video!

[rich rapids]

found the video!

2 options and he decide to fly

@quick thistle Here is the fenomenom.

[quick thistle]

yes, so this is that bug that we spoke about earlier, thats fixed now

or atleast, what i think is causing it, is now fixed

[rich rapids]

Nice! because is no reason for that turn, Train logic (?)

[quick thistle]

again, as i said before, it has to do with the pathfinding

and some recent changes to it

forgot 1 line

[rich rapids]

c sharp right?

[quick thistle]

yup!

[delicate sierra]

Which version?

[quick thistle]

not yet uploaded

[delicate sierra]

Okay, thanks.

[quick thistle]

sorry to get your hopes up xD

[tranquil hare]

wewt, got a 6 district train line set up. and ONLY using trains for transport. no more distro posts being used 😄

two of the districts are robot only ones too

[quick thistle]

ayo, thats epic

[tranquil hare]

only once had trains get in a 'traffic jam' which was fixed. been going flawlessly since 😄

https://youtu.be/Ucvl4mM9bgE <--

[rich rapids]

Nice! so clean! u can fix permanently the jam situation with more cuts on ur road -more one way track- here is my setup. its a simple one but have a lot of trains. i hope it can helps u https://youtu.be/uuJYEBOQ9Ic

[strange blade]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcXqdDwPLD8

[native vortex]

Any idea why my train won't move? The sending item (scrap metal) is full.

[rich rapids]

My theory is the train dont have anything to do and u dont have waiting station

Or u mess up 1 one way track

[native vortex]

I have 24 waiting stations, they just aren't in the picture

I don't think the track is wrong as I've already checked it but I'll try again

[rich rapids]

Uhmm it happens to me a lot before

[little shore]

you can try toggling separation on a track

it’ll glitch out and they overlap if needed to move it on

[urban rapids]

So can you make just one train track connecting 4 districts and 4 goods station and have multiple trains

*4 goods station in each district

[quick thistle]

Yup, trains are fully automonus and will move goods based on desired amount in a goodsstation

Recommended to only have 1 station per district

[urban rapids]

hi tobbert! love the mod

[quick thistle]

Multiple is possible, but can give some wierd behavior

[quick thistle]

Thx, i like you enjoy it

[urban rapids]

yeah, everything is set to have one goods station each district but only one train is moving

[quick thistle]

Aah, then you need to use sections. Click on straight tracks and press the toggle

[urban rapids]

oh, do I set sections at every station?

[quick thistle]

Sections are a indication where only 1 train is allowed to be

So to keep trains moving you need more sections.

[urban rapids]

ohhhh so if I have 4 trains, I have to have 4 sections?

[quick thistle]

No, you need number of trains + 1 sections

As a train cannot enter a section thats occupied

[urban rapids]

gotcha

Imma do that now 😄

[quick thistle]

Just type if you you are having issues

[strange blade]

But, @quick thistle , in 0.5.8, it seems that , if you have 1 station sending a good and others receiving the same goods, only the first built good station will receive that good, at least, until that station cannot receive more.

[quick thistle]

i havent touched that logic, i dont know why that would be the case

[strange blade]

But in 0.5.6, it works, I mean, 1 station sending logs and other two, receiving in the same time ... Weird 😮

Here is the save. It's about the station near the mine who won't receive logs ...

[little shore]

if you have a loop of one way track, divide it every 3 or 4 blocks and then they can all queue up and fill the space, but put enough waiting stations in

[urban rapids]

so do train operators die lol mine is currently at 83 years old

[quick thistle]

oh, it records the trains age, not the operators, though no, he doesnt die xD

just funny stat to look at

[silver egret]

That is what he wants you to believe, they are trapped merciless unable to die. Just to ride the train forever

[strange blade]

Maybe, when deleting a train, will have that beaver appear into the rubble ? 😆

[little shore]

would probably make more sense to not have a beaver in it

since it doesn;t take a job and can work continuously

[quick thistle]

but... but.. cute machinist

[novel turtle]

afaik the reason there's a beaver in there in the first place is cuz Tobbert took the system of beavers carrying stuff for the trains to be able to carry stuff
That's how I looked at it at least 😅 (TOTAL GUESS)

[quick thistle]

nope, the beaver is only there for costmetic purposes, i thought it would be omega cute

[novel turtle]

definitely cute, did also think it's weird they live forever tho 😅
also thought it was a sort of placeholder, it would be more realistic or fun to manage if it was an actual beaver imo, but I don't even know if that be possible as they ignore the district boundaries

regardless it seems VERY nitpicky!
Love the mod atm as is already!
Distributing stuff to other districts is a PAIN without it and trains are running GREAT for me!

[quick thistle]

hmm, you could think of them switching all the time, just looking the same xD

[novel turtle]

I like it! new head cannon

[quick thistle]

thx, i appreciate that

next thing is visual update and maybe some overal improvements to the systems

finished the train model switcher today

[novel turtle]

will they indeed change depending to what is being transported? like there was discussed? or did you not find the time to try that?

[quick thistle]

that i havent worked on yet

i decided to make a whole system for it

now it allows for easy adding of new models

which can be for different factions aswell, like water beavers

[novel turtle]

oooh that is nice! Love to see the improvements!

[little shore]

will there be a way to upgrade the train capacity? like same number of train cars but each carrying twice as much?

like maybe the default can do anything but a smaller quantity than some that can only carry a smaller set of items but a larger quantity

like carrying buckets of water vs a tank of water

or a thing meant to stack planks or logs

feels pretty realistic to have some additional capacity when using the right thing

[quick thistle]

I think that is the best implementation. So a base rate, and based on the type you selected, its 2x that. But im not sure how to communicate that. The current KG ui is just the defualt game behavior. So i would have to change that.

[novel turtle]

https://youtu.be/IopeeIqR1yg
(timelapse from 4 pov)

[little shore]

Basic Car: general but lower capacity, blah blah resources needed
Tank Car: carries liquids at double capacity, blah blah resources needed
Flatbed Car: carries logs, planks, and such at double capacity, blah blah resources needed
Hopper Car: carries raw food, flours, and such at double capacity, blah blah resources needed
Box Car: carries foods and other warehouse goods at double capacity, blah blah resources needed

[little shore]

gonna need to remove one of my train lines and a bit of stuff to remove a dam and move the dam to the edge of the map to hopefully stop flooding

so annoying

or setting up an automatic overflow path elsewhere that releases water when the level gets too high

[little shore]

sigh

i've built up the area so much lol

someone ought to make a mod to swap out blocks under some stack of stuff

like any 1x1x1 for any other 1x1x1

or maybe a dam to platform converter

separate building which takes planks and returns logs

eventually i'll get around to getting a mod set up

or maybe the flow reduction is from all the basic water wheels

[delicate sierra]

I also had the impression, and on the other hand, that whenever I have 2 districts exporting the same good, one station is strictly preferred over the other, as long as there are not enough trains to ship everything at once.

[strange blade]

I had to wait for the "preferred" station to not accept anymore logs (all strorage full), for the second one to receive .. Lucky me that was not about food, sine was only bots in that district 😄

[native vortex]

Has anyone ever had an issue where the trains will send all the resources from district 1 to district 2, but won't send a different resource from district 2 to district 1 out of the same goods station?

[delicate sierra]

There was a scene in one of JCs Youtube videos where that happened. My theory was that the trains were busy transporting things in one direction, and thus did not pick up the tasks in the other direction.

This could fit with the theory that some tasks / materials / stations are somehow priorized over others.

[native vortex]

So would the solution be more trains?

[delicate sierra]

Probably, if you have enough one way signs and waiting tracks. Or just wait till the transport tasks in that direction are finished, then the trains will pick up the other tasks.

[quick thistle]

the problem currently i believe is that they are oredered based on total missing goods. So if one station has more requested goods than another and they both are completely empty, then the one with more goods is priorised

will have to change that to based on the amount anywhere, but to make a better system, i will need to build a more complicated priority system

mostly as the current system is poorly optimised

[native vortex]

Thanks to both of you. I'll add more trains and see if that works.

[quick thistle]

the answer is always to add more trains xD

but yea, more trains will result in faster reservation of capacity and therefore quicker action by other trains to fill in the other direction.

[tranquil niche]

I feel as though trains should respect district separation with receiving and sending stations.
Like. You have two goods stations in one district, one for receiving and the other for sending, but it just leads into a loop of constant supply/demand in the same district.

[little shore]

yeah i think there would need to be some modification of hauler routing to make that work well

[silver egret]

priority

maybe round robin

[quick thistle]

To be clear, multiple stations inside the same district is not possible. Items do not have a history and therefore it will aleays result in some kind of hauler game which cannot be solved.

[silver egret]

or a network where you can configure each station to do special priority/round robin within that network

[tranquil niche]

Hmmm, next map, maybe I'll make some more dedicated rail networks between sending/receiving.
Though, that would take a ton of space. Here's just three "stations" with both sending and receiving in the same districts.

Also, trees.

Despite all the space, it actually can only handle four at a time because of the first picture playing the hauling game.

[quick thistle]

Within the same district is just not feasable, in ANY form. This is because oke lets say. Beaver takes food from warehouse. Then brings it to station A. Train brings it from station A to station B. Bevaer will take good from station B to warehouse. Now it starts again.

[tranquil niche]

It works "somewhat." But hey, I'm also playing the hauling game with distribution posts, so it's a moot point.

[quick thistle]

i Think i just need to add a disclaimer somwhere, because i also dont see it being feasable that i can prevent the player from placing 2 in the same district.

[silver egret]

Feasable in coding wise ?

Just the same as district gates

[quick thistle]

I guess thats possible

[tall bridge]

But then if you want one station per external district you cant😳

Maybe if you dont allow import of one goods if its exported or vise versa but that has its own problem
Maybe show error message on station that you can check and still allow

[quick thistle]

No, thats the best way to fix. A good can only be active in one station per district

Ten you can have multiple stations, but the hauling problem cannot happen

[tranquil niche]

I mean... you could just identify different stations as one group in one district, and have an array of what it requests and what it sends in a combined list. That's the best method I can think of.
It sends the completed list as request and demand... or we could directly control where trains pick up and drop off cargo ala Simple Flood Gate Trigger's Linking between water buildings and stream gauges.
Basically, to reiterate, the player tells where the trains go.

[quick thistle]

This is still possible to exist in that cenario

Or you mean that stations within the same district have a shared inventory of sorts

[tranquil niche]

I'd still like to use two stations for sending/receiving separately, but kind of.
It'd be like a more advanced form of distribution post, but you're telling trains where they can and cannot go, with respect to signals and direction.

[quick thistle]

I did create a scheduler, and is mostly done, but the problem is more so that i couldnt make it feel good.

idk

But without giving items a history, it still wouldnt fix the problem

[tranquil niche]

Thus would need a scheduler for said history of how long/old an item has been in storage?

I guess that would give priority on what the train picks up first?

Hmm. Complicated.
Well, I'll wait and see what this scheduler is all about.
It would probably give me better insight, especially with item history.
Meantime, I'm going to make a new colony and test out the multi-station idea on separated lines.

[quick thistle]

I found a image where i showed the concept https://discordapp.com/channels/558398674389172225/888491376143134760/1054888818563625061

[tranquil niche]

Ahhh, Okay. Factorio scheduling.

[quick thistle]

Yes, that was the idea

But it feels cluncky, mostly because im bad at UI

[tranquil niche]

It's good as a baseline, in my opinion.
Item history seems to be muddying the waters a bit on its implementation in relation to Factorio-style scheduling.
I guess the next item would have to be rotated in a queue to make the most sense. Round-robin style.

I suggest name tags for stations so players don't get lost in what station is where.

[quick thistle]

Its also so much fun to me to look back at that gif and see how much has changed and improved

[tall bridge]

@quick thistle so so like each train network is its own and one town district can only be reciving or sending one good type so if you have multiple train networks to one town district one station can send and one can recieve and act as a rally point/ distrobution point

[quick thistle]

Let me be clear, being able to send and receive in the same district is not possible in ANY form.

It WILL end up being an endless loop of goods

[tranquil niche]

With the Factorio-esque scheduling system, it'll be alright.

But presently, as it has no scheduling system, it'll repeatedly try to push and pull requests to the same district.

If you have two goods stations with one receiving and one sending.

With the scheduling system, it will be possible to send and receive goods this way.
But apparently Tobbert needs an item history, for some reason.

[quick thistle]

The scheduling system would result in the same

[quick thistle]

these messages are a fact, unless you can prove me a situation where it isnt the case

[tranquil niche]

I suppose it would. Considering the pic you sent.

It's within the same district, so it delivers to both stations, but it's also set that way in scheduling system.

[quick thistle]

yes, the trains right now are just a automated version of a scheduling system. It is therefore more appropriate for this game as beavers are also fully automatic

I made that system as someone suggested and pushed me a lot to make it, but i dont like it as it doesnt feel like it should be part of this game and would add to much complexity to the mod to maintain

[tranquil niche]

Basically, you would need to tweak the scheduling system to be able to target specific goods stations for pickup and drop-off like a distribution post.

[quick thistle]

Yes, and the current distribution system is what i wanna avoid

because i HATE that

[tranquil niche]

So the only possible solution I see is a completely separate line for each automated train in a push and pull scenario where you could deliver product in that automated way.

[quick thistle]

The solution to what problem?

bc we may are talking about different things right now

[tranquil niche]

Set one station as receiving, set the next in sending, build a separate line for each push and pull request.
It'd still try to fill requests, but it wouldn't interfere with each other.

[quick thistle]

No, because if you continue this logic, you can setup the same for another district, which is the same. This will result in a loop

[tranquil niche]

Yep. Exactly my point.
Unless there is some kind of limit in storage distribution, it will continue for eternity.

[quick thistle]

and the only way to fix it is just not allow it at all

[tall bridge]

Will do a image of what i mean later but ya the above you want to not allow.

[quick thistle]

but it also just makes sense, as either a district produces something or it doesnt, if it does, only export if it doesnt then only import

if production is to small, then it didnt statisfy the local population in the first place, therefore its not enough to begin with

[tall bridge]

Did a quick and dirty image 😉
Red = stations
Green = train network
Blue = path between

So if you have a main wood production at station 1 and want to to 2/3 first and if above min value send it to station 4 was the senario i thought of.

So if station 2 and 3 cant both be wood then. You cant do it that way😉 but its your mod, you do what you see fit.

[quick thistle]

why wouldnt you in this case just want 4 to send directly to 1?

this is more of a case of a priority system

[tall bridge]

Hmm true

[quick thistle]

the station 3 (receiving) would need a higher priority

in essence, there is no reason for station 2 to exist

like, the system currently is uncompleted and has to be massivly improved, but allowing both sending and receiving is just not an option.

adn believe me, i think way to much about this when im not coding xD

[tall bridge]

Ya and as you said not really needed

[quick thistle]

but @tall bridge and @tranquil niche I LOVE the interaction and critical thinking, as it keeps me very sharp and makes for the best possible mod

for example, for the scheduler, adding different names would go a long way with improving that system

i do think manually setting trains as a fun option

just for the giggles

[tranquil niche]

You'd be surprised with the results of a scheduling system.
Though yes, I think you could add it as a config option.

[quick thistle]

nono, it would be a toggle on the train, i think

default is automatic, but toggle it off and it will listen to the scheduler

[tranquil niche]

Makes sense.

[tall bridge]

So you set this is a wood train?

Or auto

[tranquil niche]

https://discordapp.com/channels/558398674389172225/888491376143134760/1054888818563625061

[quick thistle]

I never deleted the code and its still there, just hidden and not doing anything

[tranquil niche]

Like this, but with a toggle.

I guess the next step is to be able to extend trains. After toggleable scheduling.

[quick thistle]

All of that is like, i dont know how i wanna do it xD

what makes sense, what feels good

would the player understand?

[tranquil niche]

Or visualization of different cargo being transported.

[strange blade]

@quick thistle , for priority system, maybe a limit to , let say, less then 1/10 of storage capacity in district for a good will led to that good to be prioritize (I assume that great storage capacity = more need for a good). Also, maybe a slider in the station control panel to set the minimum amount that a train can get from that station ?

[silver egret]

What about a minimum items required before exporting 🙂

so it would need at minimum 100 carrots else trains ignore it

[strange blade]

Already exist a minimum capacity for trains ...

[silver egret]

[strange blade]

Trouble is that the train is focused on a good, and ignore others ....

[delicate sierra]

Hmm. Maybe a simple round robin system would be an easy way to balance, and might be comparably simple to implement.
A round-robin queue between goods stations within the same network, and a per-station round robin queue with goods to send (or to receive).

[little shore]

can you prevent haulers from taking items from a goods station? because i think that would be the only thing putting it somewhere to go to another goods station in a loop

[delicate sierra]

Strictly preventing to place 2 stations might be to harsh. I have one "scrap metal" exporting station close to the mine, and a "generic" goods and fuel importing station close to the district center. My haulers would have quite some more work to transport all the scrap metal from the mine to the other station.

[quick thistle]

This is not a possibility, because a hauler would bring it to a warehouse and from there back to a station

[quick thistle]

Correct, i suggest a good being active in only one station

thats the only posibility that allows close acces and prevent endless loops

[little shore]

so you can't prevent haulers from taking items from it?

[quick thistle]

I can, but it wouldnt solve the problem, or you are not suggesting for that

[little shore]

because i feel like workers would only grab it to put it in a building and then haulers wouldn't take from its resources

so like haulers don't take an item but it's close enough to buildings that need it and the workers get it directly

basically i think haulers are the beavers that are taking it back to start the loop

so stopping them from taking it out would break the loop

[delicate sierra]

It could work if there was a min and max limit. Only import when the district has less than min items, and export when the district has more than max items. (But all stations within a district would need to obey the same limits.)

[quick thistle]

Yes, beavers and trains together are the problem as i demonstrate here. the other blocks are warehouses in the district

[quick thistle]

yes, but then you cannot have them deliver to a warehouse anymore

[quick thistle]

But if everywhere its set to 0

[little shore]

well if it's a user selected option, then it could solve the problem

it has some storage

[delicate sierra]

Then it will do nothing when you have 0 items (as the amount is not below min), and export as soon as you have 1 item (as we're above max).

But maybe some defaults like 50/100 or 100/200 could be applied. (And a strict min<=max rule enforced in the UI.)

The advantage of such a min/max system is that you could connect your districts and the goods would auto-balance between districts - e. G. you do some build project in one district, and all the others with materials in stock would ship it (still keeping their max amount). Later, you do some building in another district, and goods will be automagically shipped there. No manual changing of import/export once you established appropriate min/max rules in all your districts.

And the "less micromanagement" is one of the big advantages of trains, compared to distribution posts.

[little shore]

red is haulers, green is workers, dotted would be disabled with what im saying, w is warehouse, s is goods station

wait forgot the train line blue is train line

[delicate sierra]

So, basically, you want to forbid the haulers to pick items from the train station, the workers will have to pick them directly? (This will reduce productivity of workers, quite the opposite of the "priorize this building by haulers" button. Some buildings like water dumps or engines will just work as now, but others pause when the workers go out to pick goods.)

[little shore]

yeah

if they go a short distance it's fine

they get like 80% efficiency

[delicate sierra]

I want 110% 😇

[little shore]

i mean like they're all really close to the station

obviously not ideal but until the devs give more control to set/forbid routes, it won't be perfect

i think this would be a less bad fix than no both send and receive of a good per district

and togglable per item ideally

so some could then be taken by haulers to somewhere else

[quick thistle]

While yes, this is a good system to implement, its not about the problem from before.

[delicate sierra]

Agreed. But it will prevent "short circuit" loops between stations within the same district which have the same good activated, as the whole district will either import or export a specific good.

[silver egret]

I have the solution

🙂

It was probably the same solution as markus, but we ain't sure

[gilded fern]

just use seperate loops with unique sending and receiving stations, instead of connecting everything together

the problem is that people make one giant network, i think using multiple smaller networks in parallel will work better

[quick thistle]

What probably will happen is that i juist completely yoink the district limits

low will mean send until this amount and hgih will mean receive till this

that will also fix it i believe

[tranquil niche]

Hmm, priority on items? That might work.
But you'd still need an item history.
Maybe you could yoink something from the building order as well and apply it to items in the goods station?

[elder tide]

Anyone got an Idea, why the train stays in the cargo station and clogs the rest up, instead of proceeding to the wait station? Got this problem with every track using multiple trains. 1 waiting track per train.

Sometimes they proceed to the waiting station, but every once in a while, they dont.

[quick thistle]

only thing i can think of its trying to get on that it cannot reach or something

[elder tide]

How couldnt it? They are right after the cargo station.

[quick thistle]

they occupy as soon as they start to go there

so it could be those 4 are occupied

and therefore cannot go to any of them

[elder tide]

The other 3 trains still have to drop their cargo. And there is 1 waiting station per train.

[quick thistle]

and you have a path that they can use to pass ther

they cannot pathfind over waiting stations

[elder tide]

That explains it. Thank you.

[kindred grove]

Nice track density though

[elder tide]

Thank you. And still havent finished the Hub^^ Is a whole District with only the purpose to centralize cargo distribution.

[urban rapids]

can trains pass on shallow water

[quick thistle]

trains can go anywhere where there are tracks

[urban rapids]

even this? 😄

that's all water

[quick thistle]

yup, i havent made anything that prevents them from doing that, so now we have smoke underwater

[urban rapids]

yay! waterproof smoke

[outer loom]

https://tenor.com/view/spirited-away-train-gif-9430003

[kindred grove]

I have trains that disappear beneath the water only emerging to visit a station or take that one track running through the sky

It's a really fun mod that doesn't try to limit anyone's imaginations

[quick thistle]

Just the limitations of not turning around and sections felt like should work good enough to be fun

[kindred grove]

Now if I can eventually get roller coaster track parts and a set of cars for beavers to ride for well-being

XD

[quick thistle]

I still feel that roller coasters should be its own mod

[kindred grove]

Maybe but I think it would be fun to make the track parts interchangeable

So my trains could also do a vertical loop

But anyway I digress, the roller coaster bit would also fit with the other powered well-being items both vanilla and mod

I hate being at the reading stage of learning something new, when I already have a fountain of ideas distracting me

[quick thistle]

The only problem with rollercoasters is that just giving well being would be boring

so i would like to design some things that could be rewards in other wayss

someone suggested that if kits go into something and get max well being from it, that it will stay forever

or will increase the max bonus

The problem with the game in general is that it needs more ways to get cool new things

[strange blade]

Why ? A rollercoaster wellbeing could not add something new to wellbeing , but, during fulfill can , let say, double the multiplier for each well-beings (including negative ones), and increase, the need for sleep ?

[kindred grove]

Lol sorry I was basic then

[quick thistle]

i mean, current wellbeing system is pretty boring

[kindred grove]

Legit can't think of what else for reward besides well being

[quick thistle]

Thats why i think that it should become its own mod, with more negative stuff and more simpel attractions aswell

just a whole roller coaster tycoon build into timberborn

[kindred grove]

I mean if the roller coaster could cause "injury" in the form of motion sickness from the roller coaster by chance

[quick thistle]

ooooh, that would be fun!

yes

and make it required aswell, a need that like water is required

big negative impact if a beaver hasnt used a attraction recently

[kindred grove]

And as far as the kits go, I thought all the well-being stuff was supposed to accelerate their growth rate? Or am I totally wrong about that?

[quick thistle]

some system that they become bored after while if only the same one

[kindred grove]

I like this idea

[quick thistle]

idk, i find well being a bit boring overall

yea, so you need to expand and build more attractions

[little shore]

also brings up that there should be a passenger car for the trains to take them long distances

[quick thistle]

i have been working on that, and have a working prototype

[kindred grove]

Huzzah

Not long now then

[quick thistle]

idk, lots of kinks still

prototype just means that my theory works, but not that anything is remotly finished xD

[kindred grove]

I meant relatively speaking lol

[quick thistle]

true true xD

[peak sparrow]

just a small bridge...

[delicate sierra]

I think we need ladders for trains... 😇

@quick thistle Just a small question out of curiosity: How to trains choose the waiting station? From watching the trains, it seems not always to be the closest free station, but I may be wrong.

[quick thistle]

Closest (absolute distance) thats empty. Occupies on selection therefore it can look it didnt choosr the closest

[delicate sierra]

Ah, "absolute distance" as in "geographical distance"? I was thinking either "track length", or "segments between one-way signs".

[quick thistle]

Nope absolute just means through anything, so just between coordinate 1 and 2

[delicate sierra]

Ok, thanks. That makes sense now. 🙂

[still crane]

anyone know how the one-way sistem works? I want to set up one but dont know what to use

[quick thistle]

Click on some straight track and toggle the divide sections

[still crane]

just that?

[delicate sierra]

Yes. The ✅ checkmark activates the one way for this track, and the button changes the direction. Waiting stations are automatically one-way (and cannot be changed).

[quick thistle]

Yup, i simplified the system to be more enjoyable to use

[native vortex]

How will trains function without districts?

[silver egret]

Pretty sure they added districts again today

Added some unwanted things

[kindred grove]

Would they even change? I mean they pretty well ignore districts even without a probable joke

[native vortex]

I was trying to play along with the joke 😂

[solemn kestrel]

anyone have a video that could explain how to install the mod, im new to modding and im unsure on how to install independent mods like this one

[tall bridge]

Use the mod manager😉 see pins in #🚀mod-users. For guides

[urban rapids]

Doin a little dance when passing through water 🤣

[quick thistle]

Ive seen them doing that in other peoples videos aswell, no clue why thats happening, really wierd

[urban rapids]

It's so cute, although it must not be comfortable for the lil beaver

[gilded fern]

https://tenor.com/view/head-banging-waynes-world-gif-22703830

train be like

[urban rapids]

So accurate 🤣

[gilded fern]

i havent played properly in a while. which version of choo choo is the stable one?

[quick thistle]

0.5.6, 05.8 has new models

but seems people report one small bug on 0.5.8, but i cannot tell has i havent changed that code,

🍝

[gilded fern]

ok thnx

[elder tide]

Just because of that, I wish, I could play Bohemian Rhapsody everytime my trains do that^^

[urban rapids]

do they not carry at max capacity? I have enough planks in the sending district and enough space for planks in the receiving end

[quick thistle]

they should do, i wouldnt know exactly why they wouldnt take full load

only thing i could think of is that other trains are trying to fill the same station, but the capacity is just reserved

so there are still trains underway to fill the same destination

[modest juniper]

@quick thistle i had a bug with mirrored buildings, you can mirror the building but the train spawns on the wrong side, not on the tracks.

[strange blade]

This is because tracks are coded...

and, mirrored buildings mod, in description, say, it works with vanila buildings ...

[quick thistle]

🙈

[gilded fern]

this is where diagonal tracks come in

[kindred grove]

Or maybe one of them train spinning platforms that spin the train around so it looks a bit less conspicuous

[plain summit]

same happens with power distribution, only the models are mirrored, not their function

[modest juniper]

i see

just though i share it here

[dire river]

Has anyone made a tutorial on how the trains work - I know it sounds silly but i can't wrap my head around them lol

[quick thistle]

The discription has some video's that have used the mods and explain the mechanica.

[urban rapids]

so having more trains doesn't mean faster deliveries?

[jaunty halo]

Evolution of my railroad network - read right first

[patent radish]

Having trouble getting the trains to start pathing and distributing. All tracks lined up correctly with no conflicting paths. Solutions

?

[quick thistle]

could you provide some more info? A image of your layout with the colored lines visable please.

Btw, please just ask in one place, little annoying getting a message everywhere.

[quick thistle]

You need to divide your track layout. Click on some straight track and press the toggle

you will see the colors change, those indicate a section

one train can only be on one section at a time

[patent radish]

one moment

Simplified to one track and one train; still not moving. The pick-up stations are empty, could this be the issue?

[quick thistle]

Yes, you need to set both stations to have the same good and one be sending and other receiving.

And ofcourse they need actually goods inside for them to move goods

[patent radish]

testing...

immediately started moving. Thanks for the help.

[timid flax]

which map is best to use train i just want a casual gameplay

[gilded fern]

the bigger, the better

[silver egret]

2048x2048

[reef valve]

Could the station code be reused to make a multi item warehouse

[quick thistle]

in some form, yes, though anything todo with inventories just sucks

[jaunty halo]

will we be getting 3 wide curves and switches?

or is 2 the most gentile that the mod is going to get in terms of radii?

[quick thistle]

i think, for me, 2 is the max yes

or atleast, its pretty far down my own todo list

mostly bc the models is the most work

[sturdy pilot]

does anyone know why beavers dont deliver goods to my train stations?

A sends gears and receives pine resin
B receives gears and sends nothing
C sends resin but receives nothing

Can this layout work? There's a loop at A and C so the train can go back the same route

[strange blade]

What version of mod ? But, that station need to had that good set-up to send, and to not have in that district another warehouse with a higher prioryties for that good .

[tall bridge]

question is there a way to go from A to C without going throught a station or waiting station?

[sturdy pilot]

no

do I need a bypass?

[tall bridge]

could affect it not 100% sure

[sturdy pilot]

So this is A, there are gears stored opposite the station

do I need to change to not accept goods?

Do I need a hauling post? I don't have one

[strange blade]

Do you use track separators to make sections ? A train can be only in a free section...

[sturdy pilot]

hang on the train just moved!

I think it was because the warehouse was storing the gears

I had to set it to empty

[strange blade]

Or, be sure that sending goods at train station have higher priorityes .

[sturdy pilot]

the trouble now is that it's stuck at B- I assume because there are no goods being sent to C?

[strange blade]

That train has any goods on it ? (not visual, of course)

[sturdy pilot]

empty

[strange blade]

Hmm, it means that it tries to go to to a waiting station, or, if it not exist, to a station to wait ...

Make sure to have a bypass, number of waiting stations and sections to be greater then train numbers .

[sturdy pilot]

so thats my layout, I want to get the pine resin at C and take it back to A

there's only 1 train

[strange blade]

@quick thistle, 1 train still need waiting station and sections ?

[sturdy pilot]

how would I add those things anyway?

[strange blade]

for a section, click on a straight track, click on the box to activate section divider and, may change direction

It's a one way, so, watch the flow . For waiting station, it's already one way, but, be sure that is not on the main line (don't count in pathfinding)

[sturdy pilot]

so add that?

[strange blade]

Look here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzDRJ7YuezQ how is with sections, one way and waiting stations, and 15+ trains ...

[sturdy pilot]

it still wont move to station C

[strange blade]

remeber that a train can enter in a section only if is free.

[sturdy pilot]

free of what?

there's only 1 train

okay I fixed it by using the empty storage method. it turns out you cannot get pine resin into a train station without building a storage that you then set to empty

they wont take resin from tappers shack to station

I guess I need to manually keep changing the storage to accept goods and then empty, so I can then load the train?

[tall bridge]

should not need to do that :S

[strange blade]

No, but you need to have a storage near the receiving station to have the goods taken from that station !

[sturdy pilot]

that's the only way it works for me- beavers wont fill up the goods station unless the storage for that item is set to empty

[quick thistle]

No, no waiting station means it wont try

@sturdy pilot sorry for late ping, could be your warehouses are on filling. Filling means they prioritise them over stations. If you put it on normal then they can take from the warehouse if there are haulers with free time.

With normal i mean the first option. Beavers can bring and take whenever they feel like it