Insert your controversial opinion here

[lavish sun]

The Māoris were segregated into their own units in ww2 and they ended up being the most successful units of WW2

[rustic pawn]

💪

28th (Maori) Battalion 🗣️

[lavish sun]

My mam told me about that

And New Zealand took the most casualties out of any commonwealth nation
(Britain doesn’t count)

[rustic pawn]

Aye GOAted mum

[lavish sun]

I have an aunt from New Zealand

I remember when I was 7 I asked her if she went to New Zealand on holidays she could bring home a kiwi bird

But it turns out that’s illegal ):

[rustic pawn]

Kiwi birds are based

Just for existing

[lavish sun]

https://tenor.com/view/d-gif-5948298390722757317

I actually did have a kiwi teddy

[rustic pawn]

Awwwwwww

[lavish sun]

His name was kiwi

Very creative

[rustic pawn]

Fr

[rustic pawn]

@lavish sun Who's your pfp haha

[lavish sun]

Michael Collins

He was one of the main commanders of the IRA during the war of independence and he then fought against the IRA in the ensuing Civil War

[rustic pawn]

Interesting

[lavish sun]

Truly

[steep pine]

No Russian is my favorite call of duty mission

[lavish field]

[inner mortar]

[ionic sand]

im not sure if i exactly have a controversial opinion but

i did read one about the allies (1939) being dumber than an earthworm

and i'd have to say i definitely agree

I mean they literally promised Poland and never put in the full effort to actually assist Poland militarily

Imagine feeling like you're safe because you have two global superpowers as your allies, but as soon as you're in danger, they don't do anything

Then again the situation did become complex about what to do once the Soviet Union invaded on the 17th

but still, I feel sorry for Poland, they felt like they had genuine help by their side until the two giants next to them crushed them.

[lavish sun]

War is all Money Money Money Like my mam likes to say

[stray magnet]

Every minor European nation in 1939-1942 be like

It’s not just Poland that had this bad luck, mostly the Norwegians and Danes too but instead of protection it was neutrality

But then again, military command and politics (especially the French) kinda did screw over both Allied powers

Germany really was lucky at that point in time tbh, most nations it clashed were either:

1. Minor nations with barely any experience of combat or small armies
2. Nations there were very unprepared and under equipped
3. Nations that the Germans launched a surprise attack on

[lunar widget]

meanwhile in China

[stray magnet]

Although credit to the Norwegians for actually holding out the longest

[stray magnet]

China is…different

Japanese command really smoking that pack when they claimed to conquer China in 3 months

Ah overconfidence

The killer of all military planners and commands

[lunar widget]

I’m more talking about how China was also lacking in support

[stray magnet]

Yeah but it already had some support

Albeit a small Soviet aid package in the form of red army planes and pilots

Followed up with the previous German aid (before they decided Japan > China) and the Western powers in whatever aid they contributed

[lunar widget]

That was later retracted in 1941 due to a nonaggression pact. Also the US sent the famous Flying Tigers.

Idk about any other European support prior to 1942.

[stray magnet]

Western allied was pretty much a broad term considering I had planned to put in the flying tigers, the Allied aid to China via the Hanoi route (before Japan had cut it off by its occupation of Indochina)

And ofc the later OSS training and equipping of the Chinese forces, the Burma road, the multiple Us airbases in China and hence forth

[lunar widget]

Would love to study that more. Honestly it’s hard to find good stuff on the Second Sino-Japanese war.

[stray magnet]

It’s a shame really because the Chinese theatre is either the most overlooked or underrated part of the war depending on what faction you are looking at

[lunar widget]

Indeed

I have a few books on the subject, it’s my favorite to study

[stray magnet]

If the United Chinese front wasn’t too disunited and well…petty over squabbles etc. They could have tried to put up some resistance but by this point the Chinese really weren’t prepared for the second Sino-Japanese war

Considering half their armies were either part of the central army, warlords or the local county militias

[lunar widget]

And a lot of the German trained units were lost by the end of Shanghai and the push for Nanjing.

[stray magnet]

Which were either ill trained and equipped to deal with the mechanised Japanese juggernaut or were practically more like bandits and press gangs meant to impress more locals into the army

[stray magnet]

Most died in the seige of Shanghai as mention, or were held back as reservists so it was an unfortunate loss of

Equipment and manpower

[lunar widget]

From what I’ve read, Divisions like the 87th had lost around 50% manpower by the time they had to defend Nanjing.
And the replacements were of less quality.

[stray magnet]

Pretty much, the NRA at that point would be fighting on the back foot until the involvement of the US-Allied forces where British and American arms and equipment would end up in the hands of the Chinese

Which did kind of shore up their quality and ability to remain in the fight although most of these trained units were sent to the Burmese jungles to help secure one of their only few routes that the allied forces can supply China

China is rather lucky that like the Soviet infrastructure in Barbarossa , China being underdeveloped slowed down the rate of Japanese advances into the Chinese interior

Aka southern China having a lack of proper road infrastructure unlike the northern parts forcing the Japanese to use rails or marching on dirt and mud roads

[lunar widget]

They the south was a slog from what I’ve heard.

Do you know of any good books on the Second Sino-Japanese war?

[stray magnet]

I unfortunately don’t have although I kinda want to also get books. If I can I may send you if I happen to head down to the bookshop here in Singapore

I kind of have one osprey book about the Interwar period of China tho

Mostly the long march

[lunar widget]

Ah I wish you luck. I can send you the pictures of the books I have.

[lunar widget]

👀

[stray magnet]

Sure I’m all ears

[stray magnet]

It’s funnily enough, what got me interested with the Chinese front fully

And well China pre-1953

[lunar widget]

I may post later because I need to sleep, got school tomorrow.

[stray magnet]

All good, cya

[lunar widget]

I got interested because of a Lego stop motion

[stray magnet]

🤝

[lunar widget]

Goodnight! (Or what ever the time is for you)

[stray magnet]

Gn

[rough elm]

If Poland joined up with the Nazis they would have been betrayed after 5 seconds

[stray magnet]

Pretty much

[wooden warren]

Who was better the Wehrmacht or the Waffen SS?

[rustic pawn]

I think both were full of war criminals who inflated their own achievements for all I care.

[wooden warren]

Not what I meant

I was talking about how well they were in combat

Not how evil or cruel they were

[rustic pawn]

I think the Wehrmacht were tactically decent, but were mediocre strategists and logistics. I'm unsure about the Waffen SS combat performance but they're highly exaggerated by Wehraboos.

The Bewegunskrieg doctrine was only effective for short-term campaigns. But it struggled in the attritional Eastern Front. Additionally, the geography and weather of the USSR brought more problems to the Wehrmacht.

[lavish sun]

Wehrmacht

Also

Another controversial opinion

The Black and Tans were just a British Waffen SS

[wooden warren]

Who were they hold up let me check real quick

Hmm interesting

[inner mortar]

when X Force is the most likely to be supplied of the GMD's NRA, because a sizable number of these got pushed away from their homeland's borders by the IJA in British Burma

beside whatever Vinegar Joe Stilwell and the Chinese divisional commanders would hamper in their debatable moves against the Axis forces in the South Asian Theater

[stray magnet]

favourite human meme, Stilwell

of the century

apart from many others

[inner mortar]

Vinegar Joe and his last hurrah
being a prison riot in Alcatraz lel

[stray magnet]

damn, still find it amusing he was also the same guy that planned a 'Coup de'tat' against CKS

only for it to not go anywhere, get discovered by the KMT and did nothing but further the disturst of the US

[inner mortar]

yup... Stilwell is to FDR in the Asian continent what McArthur is to his unintended successor Truman

[stray magnet]

huh, ngl the burmese front has some stories to tell

[inner mortar]

indeed

[stray magnet]

Britain too is interesting

Slim turning the entire army in Burma and India from one in shambles and on the verge of collapsing to pulling a reversal on the Japanese army in Burma

Kohima is...wild

[inner mortar]

aye, Imphal is one savage battle to tell a tale about the war there

[stray magnet]

its funny how you got two "Stalingrads of the East" one for Kohima and the other is the bloody battles of Manila

[inner mortar]

you know what's funnily controversial: calling Shanghai a Stalingrad

[stray magnet]

The three stalingrads of the east

ironically they form a perfect triangle if you draw and mark them out

[inner mortar]

[rustic pawn]

Slim is the GOAT

[stray magnet]

Best but underated General

typo and correction

oops

[rustic pawn]

He's underrated because the Burma Campaign is underrated.

Anyone familiar with Burma has nothing but praise for Slim. He's my favourite WWII commander.

[stray magnet]

Shame hes at least recognised in the battles of Imphal, Kohima and practically the Burma campaign

cant say the same for the previous command before Slim

Where they got...dislodged from burma early on during the war

[rustic pawn]

Agreed. But we should also remember Myitkyina and Meiktila. They were two other brilliant victories coordinated by Slim.

[rustic pawn]

Then Slim reformed the Fourteenth Army and made an epic comeback.

[stray magnet]

pretty much

[stray magnet]

Funnily enough I have the Opsrey book for Meiktila?

but i forgot

[lavish sun]

My favourite has gotta be Patton honestly

Or Montgomery

[light moat]

We should have attacked Iran instead of Iraq

after 9/11

we already got Iraq in the Gulf war

[slender acorn]

I told you we just got the letters mixed up ok it was a simple mistake

[inner mortar]

Just invade both, just as Ike did Iran in '52

[slender acorn]

You’re right

[inner mortar]

too modest of you about me
there's been no invasion, just a plenty lots of riots against Mossagdegh

not sure how could you spin that against Ayatollahs, once supposed allies amongst Iran's political factions during the last years of despotic Western monarchism

[meager jolt]

soviet deep operation beat them at their own game fr

certainly an unique doctrine, differing significantly from typical western military conventions

the back bone of soviet armies coming more in the form of battalion/field officers rather than an experienced but invulnerable NCO corps

to which the heer experienced over the course of their campaigns

alongside soviet/russian doctrine around artillery usage and its role, not merely as support but the main delivery of firepower

which is reasonable given how a majority of all military casualties are from indirect artillery fire

[dark estuary]

the nazis deserved more punoshment

[haughty mauve]

not that controversial just facts

[inner mortar]

a very agreeable opinion

[rough elm]

chad

[ionic sand]

Not controversial in the slightest

[hot sinew]

Operation unthinkable should've been carried out

[rough elm]

fr

[hot sinew]

Should've kicked Soviet ass when they didn't have nukes yet

[gusty bane]

Humans are responsible for every single deadly conflict

[ionic sand]

This is meant to be controversial takes but I'm seeing some of the most lukewarm takes ever 😭

[rough elm]

Stalin was a terrible guy

[hot sinew]

...

Personally I dislike Hitler

[light moat]

They were both bad, end of story

[hot sinew]

Now that's controversial and I won't stand for it 😡

[inner mortar]

here's a controversial take:

Wilson was aight

[hot sinew]

I can't believe there's an actual controversial take

[rough elm]

He supported the KKK

[near estuary]

Heres a really controversial take:
Hitler was stoping over population

[inner mortar]

ik
the KKK, while irrelevant at present, remains as a social irritant

[gusty bane]

Germany could’ve won World War Two.

Refuses to elaborate
Knows this take is dumb
Leaves

[lavish sun]

This is my take

[ionic sand]

Dude chill out

That's an outrageous take

[kind compass]

Communism isn't inherently bad

[inner mortar]

They are more than meets the eye

[near estuary]

intense waiting

[tender quail]

again with the agreeable takes, europe has kinda proven the effectiveness of some socialism there is no reason communism couldnt be the same

[inner mortar]

The only good socialism is Christian Socialism and Democratic Socialism

is this a kewl opinion or a grrr opinion

[lavish sun]

Tis a grrr opinion

Me no like commies

[dark estuary]

us bombing of japan was justified

(kinda)

look if your gonna support the same army that rape kids, target field medics, and do the most grusome shit on random civilians and POWs for fun, expect the concequence of your action

[dark estuary]

also you literally cant not agree that this image is sick af

"surrender our war or die in a blaze"

"heck no"

"nuke #1"

"no"

"nuke #2"

"CHILL BRO PLEASE"

[dark estuary]

HELL YEAH

[dark estuary]

and also operation sea of radioactive colbalt

[hot sinew]

Not necessary

You destroy Soviets and beat China in the civil war by supporting other sides

Korean war never happens

[dark estuary]

but if it wins a war in 10 days without an invasion why the hell not

[hot sinew]

Eh debatable if it does

[dark estuary]

fair, but the us was busy bombing japan while the ccp was fighting the roc

and we technically did try to support the roc

it just wasnt enough

also we cant beat the ccp, its a canon event

without ccp there would be no john xina ice cream, thus severly influencing meme culture

[hot sinew]

🗿

[tender quail]

for sure some of the worst atrocities ever they had it coming for them

[lavish sun]

Both armies were terrible tbf

[dark estuary]

Not really the rape of Nanking is nowhere comparable to anything we did

[lavish sun]

Americans were known to mutilate Japanese corpses back in ww2

[dark estuary]

There already dead

[lavish sun]

Melting the flesh off the bone and messing around with the skeletons

I’m sorry

Would you like that done to your corpse when you die

[dark estuary]

Well deserved especially considering the treatment of American pows. They should of seen it coming

It’s only fair.

[lavish sun]

No

It’s not

War is Never fair

Nothing in war is fair

The fact that it happened isn’t fair

What everyone did wasn’t fair

And the US did sometimes violate Japanese women, especially during the occupation of Japan

[dark estuary]

It’s not like a Nazi soldier scenario where the individual soldier had nothing to do with the whole regime cuz the Wehrmacht was diffirent from the warffen ss

The Japanese soldiers

They be worshipping hirihito

[lavish sun]

You seem to think every Japanese soldier was a rapist

[dark estuary]

No

[lavish sun]

There are a couple of diary entries saying they weren’t very passionate about it

[dark estuary]

But what I’m saying is that the Japanese have done worse then the us

[lavish sun]

Not by a million miles

The US have done their fair share

[remote hazel]

there's no comparing 731 that's for sure

[dark estuary]

I think bro might be brainwashed

[dark estuary]

T HATS WHAT INWAS ABOUT TO SAY

[lavish sun]

I’m Irish and we didn’t fight in ww2 so we don’t have to be brainwashed

[hot sinew]

All sides did war crimes but the Japanese were notorious for them. Not comparable

[remote hazel]

Yes both sides have done rape and put people in camps, but 731 is a whole other level

[lavish sun]

Yeah I don’t doubt that

[dark estuary]

Exactly

[lavish sun]

But my point is the USA still have done a lot of war crimes, and many of them were swept under the carpet

[hot sinew]

Having your corpse mistreated is a bad war crime to do but I'd argue that it pales in comparison with the rape of Nanking

[remote hazel]

tbf the US did give immunity to the director of 731

for research purposes

[hot sinew]

Just because it's not black and white doesn't mean it's the same

[lavish sun]

It doesn’t pale in comparison but I don’t have to admit that the rape of nanking was hell on earth

[dark estuary]

Point to where in the Geneva convention does it say that

Disrespect is not a war crime

[hot sinew]

Mistreating the dead is a war crime

[lavish sun]

But the reason I say it doesn’t pale is because the mutilation by the US soldiers got so bad that FDR had to get involved

[hot sinew]

I've had discussions over it with more modern conflicts some times already

[dark estuary]

Ok fair enough

Still tho Japan deserved to get bombed

Also it would’ve just ended the war faster

[hot sinew]

https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v1/rule113

[dark estuary]

Yk how much more lives it would take if operation downfall actually happened

[lavish sun]

I don’t think the Japanese deserved to be literally evaporated on the spot

[remote hazel]

their military did

the cities idk

[lavish sun]

It’s a no

[lavish sun]

That’s a yes

[hot sinew]

And if he didn't get involved it'd be better?

I think it shows initiative from higher ups that war crimes aren't cool

[dark estuary]

But they still didn’t surrender after the first nuke so the second one was basically there own fault

[remote hazel]

should've nuked their military bases

[lavish sun]

A lot of higher ups encouraged it

[dark estuary]

What bases? By 1945 we already took most of there pacific bases

[lavish sun]

That’s why the president got involved

[remote hazel]

on the Japanese mainland?

[hot sinew]

It was the nukes, the firebombing, the overall naval campaign and the invasion of Manchuria that all made Japan surrender in the end

[hot sinew]

The leadership involving itself in avoiding war crimes shows the nation's character

[lavish sun]

Yes it was their fault that they got the sun dropped on them twice

[hot sinew]

People are people and they'll commit war crimes. That's how it is. It's about trying to set boundaries to limit it as much as possible

[lavish sun]

The US’s character is a hotly controversial one

Some people think it’s golden but others think quite the opposite

[dark estuary]

Well cmon, what would you rather have; 2 bombs and millions of civilians or millions of soldiers and civilians to be lost

[hot sinew]

That's because it has free speech and you're allowed to talk about it. Say the same thing in other countries and you'll get 15 years in prison for discrediting the armed forces if you're lucky

[dark estuary]

Tell that Israel and Hamas lol

[remote hazel]

brother, not here

[lavish sun]

Yes

And free speech is gud

[hot sinew]

Let's not get into modern discussion, rule 3

[lavish sun]

2 bombs is a gross understatement

[hot sinew]

Also that discussion would end this thread in flames no matter how it would be approached 🙏

[remote hazel]

Even the Destroyer of Worlds had regrets

[lavish sun]

Idk the lore there

[hot sinew]

The firebombing has to be noted too

[lavish sun]

Yeah

All bombing

Of any sort

On cities

Is absolutely evil

[hot sinew]

Indiscriminate bombing in civilian areas is a war crime

[lavish sun]

And rightly so

[hot sinew]

Yep

[hot sinew]

I guess discriminate bombing in civilian areas is too lol but whatever

Let me use fancy terms

[hot sinew]

Well under certain circumstances to be fair

Not always

[dark estuary]

Cities more like essential infrastructure and facilities to the imperial Japanese military

[hot sinew]

The act of killing civilians by itself isn't necessarily a war crime

[hot sinew]

Huh?

What could he possibly mean by this

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo

[dark estuary]

Look it’s very hard to distinguish camouflaged factories so why not raze the whole thing

[lavish sun]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=7rwJ1T6rmAg&si=fhvZpfV8OeTLuAPt

[hot sinew]

Houses of a million people in Tokyo was essential infrastructure of the imperial Japanese Army?

[hot sinew]

That's indiscriminate bombing in a civilian area, ie a war crime

[dark estuary]

The same people who are funding the army

[lavish sun]

Even Ireland was not spared

[remote hazel]

bro everyone funds the army

[hot sinew]

You're an American tax payer?

[dark estuary]

Nah I’m too young for taxes

[lavish sun]

Through taxes, which you are legally obliged to pay

[dark estuary]

Wait crap i fucked up my argument

What I was saying was

[hot sinew]

So when you're an adult, you'll be a legal target for any organisation at war with USA?

[dark estuary]

If we bomb Japan, we will end the war faster at the cost of less lives

So it’s better then a conventional invasion

This being justified

[hot sinew]

Potentially sure

Still a war crime tho

[dark estuary]

That we will never have to pay because we won the war and we were on the good side

[hot sinew]

🗿

How old are you btw?

[dark estuary]

Well it’s not as simple as that

[remote hazel]

there r no good sides

[hot sinew]

You don't have to tell me if you mind

[lavish sun]

There is never any good side

Ever

[hot sinew]

Nah I disagree

That's bullshit

Allies were the good side

[lavish sun]

The better side

[dark estuary]

So your saying the same nation that is allies with the nazis is better then the allies?

[lavish sun]

Not the good side

The better side

[dark estuary]

Much better phrasing

[remote hazel]

yeah

Soviets aren't good breh

[hot sinew]

The situation not being black and white doesn't mean there isn't a contrast

[lavish sun]

Yeah

[dark estuary]

I hate communist “people”

Communism is in theory practical, if used in smaller policies to break down monopolies but other then that commies can go leave this argument

[inner mortar]

The Western Allies indeed are the sweetest evils compared to the Comintern, the Axis, and the Co-Prosperity Sphere

No sacrifice, no victory

[valid shell]

dudee we're much better at controlling the disease than an inferior west

[inner mortar]

||C H I N A||

[valid shell]

T H E Y A R E S O G O O D A T S U P P R E S S I N G T H E D I S E A S E T O O G L O R Y T O T H E C O M M U N I S T P A R T Y O F C H I N A M A Y T H E Y E N D U R E TO P R E S I D E A N D L I F T T H E P E O P L E O F F O F A L L T H E D I F F I C U L T I E S

[inner mortar]

C H I N A

-# W E W I L L G R O W L A R G E R

[ionic sand]

The Bob Semple was undoubtedly the best tank of the entirety of WW2, even outperforming the T-34

But the Allies knew it couldn't be deployed onto the battlefield for it was far too deadly

[lavish sun]

How do you make text look like that

[fluid iron]

Rome is overrated

[inner mortar]

-# type -# and press space

[slate spire]

The US electoral college system is flawed

[lavish sun]

Yeah I think the irish way of doing it is much better

[lavish sun]

-# thanks

[slate spire]

Ooo, how do the Irish do it?

[lavish sun]

So in Ireland you don’t vote for someone to vote for you, you vote directly as a citizen, and you as a citizen have your voice heard

You choose the different candidates and put them on a list akin to a top 5 list

The one you want most is put up at number one

The one you want second most is put at number 2

And so on so on

[slate spire]

Yeah that’s already better than the electoral college

[solid portal]

Electoral college was the only way the US could have been created in the first place

Removing it would inevitably lead to the Constitution being powerless

[outer shell]

Not really a controversial opinion, many people here already have that opinion

[slate spire]

Damn

[slate spire]

Unless, NaPoVoInterCo

[slate spire]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact

[solid portal]

Which would set a dangerous precedent for the nation, as it is now acceptable to find loopholes to bypass the constitution

[slate spire]

Probably

[solid portal]

Also the likelihood of this plan coming together is low

The states don't like eachothers guts

[slate spire]

True

[solid portal]

The electoral college also has advantages

Giving more representation to Rural communities that typically wouldn't have much of a say, but who have the largest impact on the country

The Cities being in charge of rural areas is dangerous

And with the status quo it seems like leadership favoring the rural conservatives and urban liberals switches on a regular basis, which is healthy

[outer shell]

They should give me absolute power

[slate spire]

Agreed

[slate spire]

How will that be changed if the US (theoretically) removes the Eectoral College system

[solid portal]

Cities have more population, despite not making many raw materials, mainly manufacturing using raw materials. But because they have more population, they can make it very difficult for the rural areas, who are vital for the country, to be represented

[slate spire]

They dont.

They represent only like 20-30%

Of the entite population

Others live in more rural(ish) cities

“Cities”

[slate spire]

What source?

And urban can mean ally of things

[solid portal]

Census

[slate spire]

Big cities or medium ish cities

[solid portal]

https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2022/urban-rural-populations.html#:~:text=Despite the increase in the,down from 80.7%25 in 2010.

[solid portal]

They count medium-sized cities

And towns

[slate spire]

Oh okay

[solid portal]

But that has the same problem

Their economies are manufacturing/service based

[slate spire]

Towns are in the semi-rural area for me

Towns could support huge agricultural production

[solid portal]

I could add together all cities with over 100k pop

[slate spire]

Sure

[solid portal]

My google AI short answer. I will try to find more accurate numbers

[slate spire]

So 50 50

[solid portal]

Over 50

And that would shift a bit with a more inclusive defenition

Even 80k would shift it over

[slate spire]

So most towns are in the 200 000-100 000 area

[solid portal]

It just depends what definition you use

[solid portal]

No...

Town is 2k to 15k

[slate spire]

Most of the cities are 200 000 to 100 000

Then

[solid portal]

Park City Utah I'd say is a good basis for a middle ranged town

[slate spire]

Is it considered somewhat rural?

[solid portal]

Not even really. But that's because it's reliant on Ski Industry

[slate spire]

It has like 9000 people

[slate spire]

True

[solid portal]

I would consider somewhere with 2k to 15k somewhat rural

Once you go over it it's definitely urban

And where we put city is the question

So 100k is pretty strict , but supports my theory still. Any lower of a definition and my theory stands

[slate spire]

Let’s go back to this, so a candidate could theoretically reach the 270 line by just winning smaller states with less populations because of the -2, +2 rule?

[solid portal]

Yea

[slate spire]

So so fair?

[solid portal]

Yes

Not everyone is important to the country as someone else

[slate spire]

?

[solid portal]

An corporate worker in LA provides less to the country than a farmer, despite better pay most of the time

[slate spire]

Yeah

But so his vote should count less?

What do corporate workers do again

They might organize a huge corporation

That might contribute to services and activities

[solid portal]

When someone has 60% of the vote they get 100% of the policy

If the electoral college was abolished farmers would get 0% of the policy

Right now it shifts and it's basically 50/50

Bush 8 years, Obama 8 years, Trump 4, Biden 4, Trump 4, and I predict a democrat will win 2028

[remote hazel]

I predict Rule 3 is in this channel

[solid portal]

Dont look here

This is a haven

[remote hazel]

2 late

[remote hazel]

nah

[solid portal]

The discussions fascinated here are healthy and grow our understanding of others opinions

[remote hazel]

they are if they're before 2013

[slate spire]

Pwease

Yes this is before 2013

Trust

[remote hazel]

no

[slate spire]

Why is that?

[solid portal]

Because the President only serves their party for the most part

Senate would be only safeguard

[gritty palm]

I think the JFK assassination was likely an inside job

[solid portal]

Not controversial

Bullet theory is dumb

[gritty palm]

Fr

[outer shell]

What about a certain event that happened on the 11th of September?

[gritty palm]

There is the stuff about jet fuel not being able to melt steel beams and how supposedly the us government had just lost a bunch of money prior to the attack but idk

[slate spire]

Why?

[gritty palm]

Footage that mysteriously disappeared, saw something about Carcano firing way too fast to pull off accurate shots, the angles of the bullets that hit him, and bullet theory being stupid

[solid portal]

Research it. You'll go down a rabbit hole

[tame marsh]

we might be right capitialists or left commumists. But we all line together against lgbbq

[slate spire]

Alright great personal opinion

But just watch out for rule 1

[inner mortar]

barbecue discrimination tsk tsk

[slate spire]

Barbecue

Is

[tender quail]

godly

[slate spire]

And tasty

[inner mortar]

an opinion anyone fond of roasted meat agrees

[slender acorn]

No more controversial opinions 😔

[lavish sun]

I have one

Fulgrim is the best Primarch

(:<<<

[steep pine]

i think that was also an inside job

[slender acorn]

😭

[lavish sun]

Yeah I said it

Fulgrim is the best primarch

[lavish sun]

Or Mortarion

[crisp lantern]

the building of the twin towers was an inside job

[dark estuary]

How is this thread still not dead

[slender acorn]

Who knows

[slate spire]

WW1 was unjustified

[near estuary]

if you think about it, no wars are justfied

[outer shell]

Except for ours against you of course

[modest sapphire]

Other than all the death and pain, (not including destrutcion because I like destroying things), War lowkey seems exciting / fun to participate in

[sleek spindle]

The USSR never was communist

Das kapital tells as much

[ionic sand]

is this not a strange thing to say

i dont think that falls under controversial but rather more stupid, i think youve just watched too many little dark age edits bro

[modest sapphire]

Nah I just live in a boring small area where there’s nothing to do

[dark estuary]

IMO, the latter part of ww2 was justified. if it wasnt for the allies, who will stop hitler

ww2 is the exact oppisite definition of violents begets violence

[lavish sun]

No country was ever communist

[sleek spindle]

ahem

i beg to differ

the incas had something that worked

(yes they had a king, but it was closer than the ussr)

[lavish sun]

And currency

So that’s two things that go against communism

[sleek spindle]

no they did not

The Inca Empire functioned largely without money

[lavish sun]

Either way

Having a government goes against true communism

[sleek spindle]

its more about worker unions right?

[lavish sun]

Communism is the idea of having no businesses, no corporations, governments, leaders, currency or military/police

[sleek spindle]

it looks like ur confusing it with anarcho-communism

[outer shell]

Isn't that what Marx said a communist society should look like though?

[sleek spindle]

no actualy not

hold up lemme grab the book brb one sec

marx unlike anarcho communism wanted a transitional period in between

and marx wanted a planned economy

[outer shell]

Yeah but the end goal after the transitional period was a stateless society though right

[sleek spindle]

no

a decentralised international nation

[outer shell]

You read Marx?

[sleek spindle]

i have the book

yes

you know

i kinda wish that volga germany stayed an ssr

and that it succeded from the ussr it would make an interesting scenario, would it not?

[outer shell]

Yeah maybe

I wonder what the Volga Germans thought about Nazi Germany?

[sleek spindle]

thats why stalin removed it

but the volga germans became distinctive from germans a long time ago

[modest sapphire]

I got another controversial topic, if something like Democratic Socialism worked out, imo it would be better than capitalism

People still have religous freedom, and they can electic their leaders, but it would be a socialist society. Similar to if china had elections, but all the candidates were in the same party, with slightly different ideas and policies

[crisp lantern]

the plains indians were kinda communist

[solid portal]

Odd thing to say

[solid portal]

How would you prevent people from starting businesses without government

The USSR is what happens when you strive for communism

Since communism is basically impossible

[lavish sun]

It’s just not part of the ideal communist anarchy

[solid portal]

So it's not possible

[lavish sun]

Yeah I never said communism wasn’t flawed

[solid portal]

Its not a real Ideology

[steep pine]

Why do u think the so many cooperates (mostly jews) sold all their stocks and bonds

And moved them the DAY BEFORE 911

[sleek spindle]

israeli intelligence probably warned them or smth

[dusky ether]

India needed a cultural revolution

[quick surge]

Agreed

[sacred tundra]

Colonialism was a blessing for the world

[near estuary]

If you posted this statement on Twitter, the amount of death treats you would receive would have been beyond your ability to count

[dusky ether]

As a Twitter user, they would agree with him

[worn frigate]

Nah most people believe they suffered more then benefitted from it so unlikely people agree with him

[dusky ether]

NATO bombing of Serbia was justified

[sleek spindle]

this is the truth

[willow vortex]

My controversial opinion: I should be allowed to eat large quantities of the chernobyl soup

https://tenor.com/view/good-soup-good-soup-meme-meme-adam-driver-gif-22924425

[burnt bloom]

In what sense? It shall be very interesting if you could elaborate.

[outer shell]

Being super wealthy isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[inner mortar]

chug

[sleek spindle]

i should be allowed to eat the elephants foot

[dusky ether]

I am completely capable of driving to the liquor store

[sleek spindle]

i am to be trusted with a 50 cal

[burnt bloom]

Warning: what you are about to read is EXTREMELY controversial, if you said that in public then those could be your last words.

India needs state sponsered Atheism in order to improve on the socio-economic front.

[opaque rose]

Henry ford was a horrible person

[lavish sun]

Colonialism’s good effects are only long term

They brought western culture to the natives of Asia and Africa, America etc

But it’s easy to think that’s a good thing when you’re from a western country

It was not a complete blessing but it did bring some good things

[sleek spindle]

I would have given the mayans, incans and others medicin guns and ammo if it ment they survived

[worn frigate]

Atheism for developing socio-economic sector?

What are you on about bruv?

[worn frigate]

Well.. as I said, they were more harm then good. Besides Im sure natives of each of those places would choose their own culture over "western culture" (whatever that is) anyday of the week.

[lavish sun]

Fr

Like it’s because of colonialism that English is my first language and that I despise speaking my native langauge

[worn frigate]

You despise speaking your native language?

Where you from?

[lavish sun]

Because its so COMPLICATED

[lavish sun]

Ireland

[worn frigate]

Ah right.

[lavish sun]

IF THOSE FUCKING BRITS HADNT CAME OVER I WOULDNT HATE MY OWN LANGUAGE

[worn frigate]

I mean even ours is but we still do.

[lavish sun]

Sry I got mad there

[lavish sun]

Yeah

In short colonialism was pretty shit

[worn frigate]

Is the IRA still active?

[lavish sun]

Yes

[worn frigate]

Join them.

[lavish sun]

And god only knows how much I hate them

[worn frigate]

Why what happened?

Didn't they use to fight the crown back in the day?

[lavish sun]

And make carbombs that end up killing little children?

[lavish sun]

That was the old IRA

[worn frigate]

Ah never heard of it but yeah then don't.

[lavish sun]

The new one is a shadow of its original glory

[outer shell]

Probably should've done a bit more research 💀

[worn frigate]

Damn..

[worn frigate]

Yeah mb.

[lavish sun]

It’s ok everyone makes mistakes but just be glad I didn’t go full maniac on you

Cus that would have been very not nice

[outer shell]

Interesting side fact though my great grandfather served in the old IRA

[worn frigate]

Yeah ig.

[lavish sun]

My great grand uncle served in the British army

In Italy, during ww2

[worn frigate]

Imagine getting drafted just to fight chicken with long necks, with literally machine guns and still lose.

[sleek spindle]

Scotland should get indipendence from the UK

[dusky ether]

Europe’s very first third world country🔥🔥🔥

[sleek spindle]

nah greece is, its greatest ruin complex is their economy

[sleek spindle]

nah but mainly after the uk said: hey if you become indipendent were gonna make sure u never join the eu, and then the uk had brexit

like... dude wtf

[lavish sun]

Alr

Time to make a controversial opinion

inhale

Northern Ireland should not be in the Republic of Ireland

https://tenor.com/view/escape-gif-5626762

[sleek spindle]

Nah fair

Northern Ireland is like Ireland but more unstable

[wooden warren]

Fair enough

[lavish sun]

The thing is I don’t think the Irish government will be suited for Ulster’s industrial complex

Ulster is the richest province in Ireland because of its huge amount of heavy industry

Like the Titanic was built there

And the vast majority of Britain’s aircraft carriers

And also if we were to unite under either the republic or the crown one way or the other people will be angry

[sleek spindle]

so its like bosnia in a way?

[ionic sand]

chicken?

j

jjj j j

chicken jockey

[stray magnet]

Mint chocolate chip ice cream ain’t that bad

[lavish sun]

It’s goated

[lavish sun]

Idek what the deal with Bosnia is

[sleek spindle]

3 ethnicities, 3 ethnicities that hate eachother, no one can agree

[lavish sun]

There’s no two major ethnicities in Ireland it’s mostly political at this point

I don’t rly like Ireland being compared to other countries cus sure every country is different and unique

[sleek spindle]

isnt like the scots english and welsh people that moved there and the irish on the other side?

[lavish sun]

There weren’t many welsh settlers but most Protestants were of that descent but

You could hardly call that an ethnicity

[sleek spindle]

ive heard theres some large amounts of welsh in argentina

they call it

Y Wladfa

[lavish sun]

Cool

Wales is kinda goofy sometimes tbh

[sleek spindle]

argentina is just the world hotspot foor goofy

[lavish sun]

Fr

Anyway

About the troubles and divisions and allat

I honestly can’t get over how

Just how pointless it was like

And it happened in the land I grew up in just cus it’s in the uk doesn’t mean it didn’t affect the republic

And everyone’s parents in my generation grew up while it was happening

Saw the atrocities of it in the news, something new every week sometimes

And it’s not very far from home like

[sleek spindle]

Eastern Asia would have had less trouble if they were still Russian territory, my argument is that many struggle with water, food production, so to say their own geography fucked them over so they have oil, but cant sustain a good population and are landlocked for most of their borders, they need one entity to help eachother whether thats themselves or another power

I am aware these nations have river but a slight problem is that these nations are mainly in the altai mountains wich stretches from china to the middle east, that makes the only good patches of land in mountain pastures wich there are little of

[dusky ether]

Bring back the Iron Curtain

[sleek spindle]

bring back czechoslovakia

[dusky ether]

In fact, bring back East Germany

[sleek spindle]

restore tha papal state

[dusky ether]

Rebuild the Berlin wall and rearm the border between east and west Germany

[sleek spindle]

https://tenor.com/view/simpsons-gif-21933474

this is just that clip

[sleek spindle]

bring back the kalmar union

in fact, bring back poland lithuania

[burnt bloom]

Bring back the Mughals!

[worn frigate]

Nah bring back the Rajputs and Marathas.

[burnt bloom]

I could agree with the Marathas only if they followed the policies of Shivaji Maharaj, which seemingly were lost by the time the First Bajirao died.

[worn frigate]

What about Rajputs?

[burnt bloom]

Rajputs were never a united kingdom, they were just a fragmented group. So which group among them are you referring to?

[inner mortar]

my brother in Perun, we have an Iron Curtain, it's made outta Bamboo

[lavish sun]

Bring back the Irish Empire

[sleek spindle]

bring back the greater liechtensteiner reich

[stray magnet]

Exactly yet

People treat you like a madman for loving Mint Choco chip

[willow vortex]

Someone eats chocolate chip, and no bats an eye, but I eat Mint Choco chip…society…society calls me cRaZy

https://tenor.com/view/joker-laughing-gif-9806460305539250666

[stray magnet]

Exactly

We need more like minded people, I will never understand why there’s hatred for Mint Choco

[willow vortex]

So real

[stray magnet]

Peak flavour, ranked as high as Pistachio and vanilla

[willow vortex]

REAL, preach

[stray magnet]

Only the enlightened will understand

That mint Choco is a superior flavour

[willow vortex]

https://tenor.com/view/psychic-third-eye-enlightenment-telepathy-gif-22477198

[stray magnet]

Millions must preach

The word of mint Choco

[willow vortex]

https://tenor.com/view/hyped-happy-yessirr-yes-sir-lets-go-gif-17289987

[lavish sun]

Mint ice cream when dark chocolate chips

[sleek spindle]

i like most icecream

i even like bubblegum

the best thing about liking unpopular flavors is that they will always be available

[lavish sun]

Bubblegum is goated

[near estuary]

this thread has finally died

[dusky ether]

East Germany should’ve been the one doing the reunification ngl

[sleek spindle]

it alr did

[lavish sun]

Thankfully

[remote hazel]

really took that long

2 years this's shit been running

8.6k messages. double that of 2nd place(don't talk about that one)

[meager jolt]

They should've ngl, no surprise that the AFD is popular in the east considering how much "reunification" was more absorbtion by the Western half.

Would be nice if Germany could be split again

Make it back into the GDR, a strong bulwark against NATO aggression, war mongering and barbarism it has promoted in the middle east and more

[inner mortar]

We split it into three Germanies:

• Danubia
• Rhenia
• Elbia

[sleek spindle]

Wheres sorbia

[inner mortar]

It's Elbian

[tiny heath]

Definitely not

Socialism is inherently authoritarian

Capitalism is compatible with a free society, considering the fact that is quite literally a system where free trade occurs

Socialism is intent on regulation and taking away people's busisnesses for "worker representation."

There is no room for owning your own busisness

[modest sapphire]

All buisness' are state owned yes, but unlike more radical forms of left wing beliefs its the least radical of the radicals

there is still elections, still private property, religious freedom, the only difference is business control

wait

actually

that would mean all media is state run, as there arent any private media businesses'

shit I just realized that

[burnt bloom]

The Maratha Empire after Shivaji Maharaj was completely different from what he actually intended to establish. His successors simply undermined his legacy and went for power grabbing.

[sleek spindle]

Is that the Indonesian empire?

[near estuary]

Unsurprising the more I think about it the more I realise this applies to most indian empires and kingdoms

[near estuary]

Maratha empire

[burnt bloom]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maratha_Empire

[burnt bloom]

Not really, Shivaji Maharaj's dream wasn't establishing an empire. He wanted it to be different from the Mughals, something more inclusive of the general population. His armies never looted a single civilian, religious or cultural establishment even if it were in enemy territory. He strictly instructed his troops to BUY supplies from the people at market prices instead of looting it from them. When he wanted to build ships, they literally asked each and every tree owner before they cut it down and even paid him back, also Maharaj had instructed them to plant ten trees for every one they cut.

Everything changed after he died. 😞

[near estuary]

IDK where I read this from, but I heard his army was responsible for the burning of a few churches in the coast. Do you know if that's true?

[near estuary]

Not sure if you know but the vijayanagara empire, they to successfully made a secular kingdom in the South. But this was destroyed due to a rival kingdom

[burnt bloom]

No, that was after Shivaji Maharaj died and his son Sambhaji Maharaj took over. He was wary of European influence on the subcontinent and went to war with the Portuguese, but he was a little less cautious about maintaining morality during the conflict and the Maratha troops went for a little war crime stuff.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maratha–Portuguese_War_(1683–1684)

@near estuary

[near estuary]

Alr cheers

[dense socket]

dayton shouldnt have happened, bosnian and croat forces were already pushing the serverly weaked serb rebels back so if dayton never happened bosnia wouldve won the yugoslav wars

[sleek spindle]

shut up

statistically unlikley

bosnia would have never gotten out of ohio otherwise

they only signed that to get out of fucking Dayton Ohio 😭

my opinion for today is the following tho: No try as he might Spiderman cannot defeat Otto von bismarck

[dense socket]

Yugoslavia jad been bombed to shit by nato

Bosnia was getting nato weapons

While yugo still used outdated equipment

Also croatia was helping them

So 2v1

Texhnically 2,5 v 1 due to nato

[sleek spindle]

yeah but like

what about the byzantines tho?

[dense socket]

What byzantines?

[sleek spindle]

shhhhh

[dense socket]

How are they repevant to this?

[sleek spindle]

i alr said to much

[ornate salmon]

kosovo is albanian hands down

[wooden warren]

Kosovo is independant the way the balkans are it'd just be a speedrun into war but Albania is in NATO 💀

[sleek spindle]

Kosovo is too right?

[ornate salmon]

nah like if kosovo is independent that would be wayy too many states

i am pro-serbian due to ww1 but just cuz of 1990s war issue, i support albania on this

[harsh juniper]

iraq might have had weapons, but the iraq invasion was unjustified and unreasonable considering 120k civilians died

[meager jolt]

Apparently there were no WMDs to speak of either, unless they're speaking of Chemical weaponry that the west PROVIDED IN THE FIRST PLACE, which was also apparently not available/completely gone in the Iraqi arsenal to begin with 🤷‍♂️

BS war and justification, America did it to further its own hegemony, for Israeli interests to remove a potential threat in a secular Iraq and for OPEC.

[harsh juniper]

fr

wait a second this isn’t against rule 3 right???

[meager jolt]

no

[harsh juniper]

phew

[meager jolt]

anything beyond 2012 or so, BS rule if you ask me considering that we have an Russo-Ukrainian war channel lol #🔵・russo-ukraine-war-discussion

[harsh juniper]

.

that’s kind of stupid

[meager jolt]

yh

bad oversight

or just incompetence

[harsh juniper]

wait why would the west supply the chemicals in the first place then???

[meager jolt]

Iran-Iraq war, western corporations willingly and gladly provided Iraq with tools and chemicals to make CWs

[harsh juniper]

ohh so they hate iraq and iran but they hate iran more so iraq got weapons

basically

[meager jolt]

yh

The US was being bit of a crybaby when Iran fell to revolution, a revolution that deposed the Shah that the US installed after a coup.

Bit of a pattern, just like the US has sanctioned Cuba for decades like a manchild, in spite of wider international support for Cuba against sanctions, unfortunately the country with most money and guns to pay off or threaten the world gets what it demands.

[ornate salmon]

Saddam hussien is a good guy (Kinda, rly, i mean he saved palestine yeah but.....uhhhhh)

[meager jolt]

He had probably around 250k killed tho

[ornate salmon]

and used chemical weapons

[meager jolt]

That's for the Anfal campaign post Gulf war against the Kurds alone 💀

[ornate salmon]

my friend told me tho he is a nice man cuz he saved palestine thats all

[ornate salmon]

crap

[meager jolt]

He gassed them to shit

[ornate salmon]

WHAT DID THOSE POOR GUYS DO BROO

[ornate salmon]

THEY DIDNT EVEN DESERVE IT

[ornate salmon]

also bro learned chemical warfare from ww1 germany and decided to use it agasint villages rather than soilders💀

[meager jolt]

big yikes

[ornate salmon]

whoever said he was a good man=💀 🤡 ❌

[meager jolt]

Saddam was 100% a nutjob, again I don't fault the over romanticization post-Saddam considering what happened.

Again tho, its literally the choice between a nutjob in power ruling a secular dictatorship or the chaos after his overthrow.

Very similar case for Syria in its history, even before Bashar - when the secular Baathist aligned regime in Hafez did pursue genuine progress, but with an iron fist against Islamists.

Very mixed bag and legacy in the most generous of terms

[ornate salmon]

i lived in saudi arabia my whole life and i didnt even know this happened💀

[wooden warren]

Hmm it'd be interesting no doubt but more states would most certainly not be great

[ornate salmon]

the balkans have wayy too many states and i think they should be reduced. this is my controversial opinion, please dont mind i think macedonia should be bulgarian north macedonia should be greek and kosovo should be albanian

just to reduce the states

[wooden warren]

Why North Macedonia being a part of Bulgaria?

[ornate salmon]

i said north should be greek but the rest should be bulgarian

because their language is similar

[wooden warren]

Ah

[ornate salmon]

or maybe get rid of north macedonia just macedonia country only

litteraly balkan map has wayy too many countries(and endless border conflicts too)

but living there i think is kinda better than france/ germany because of lower prices, etc

mostly for bulgaria/romania

only cuz they are in EU and NATO

[wooden warren]

Well if you're looking for cheaper but still better and growing Poland, the Baltics and such are pretty nice

[ornate salmon]

yeah poland fine too

[ornate salmon]

only thing concerned about is how they treat muslim minoritys(now please dont say turkey, just looking for somthing else). bulgaria has like a small muslim minrotiy and romania has even lower

[ornate salmon]

oh yeah and also poland is more safer too and has cooler history too( they are in NATO and EU too so there is that)

[remote hazel]

So what do you think caused the Downfall of the Controversial Opinion Forum

[turbid atlas]

Canadians

[near estuary]

This thread just refuses to die

[sleek spindle]

We alr gave them all?

[lavish sun]

If you just shut up maybe it will finally die

[sleek spindle]

why the hostility?

[lavish sun]

Because I hate this thread

[sleek spindle]

still doesnt give a reason to be so rude tho

[burnt bloom]

Absolutely stunning take here:

America was responsible for Pakistani war crimes in Bangladesh.

[remote hazel]

Nah

[limber bear]

Hitler did good also during world War 2

[burnt bloom]

That in itself is very controversial.

[sleek spindle]

around 15.8 million people + many others want you dead rn

[burnt bloom]

Quite a massive number of people who like to get violent over history.

[sleek spindle]

yes

its the intire jewish population

[burnt bloom]

Oh I see

Also, just a query, does Rule 3 apply here as well?

[sleek spindle]

i think only if its like not THAT controversial its ok but i think wed need to consult a mod for it

[wooden warren]

I don't know if this applies to generally but I do like what Hitler did for animals still doesn't help his reputation

[limber bear]

That's what I mean

[wooden warren]

Well you did specify WWII

not generally

[ornate salmon]

guys hot take: all of russia's land are stolen from other nations (kerilia is finnish and kailligrad is german, and chechnya is independent and crimea is ukrainain)

[limber bear]

Kinda agree

[sleek spindle]

karelia is karelian

[turbid atlas]

I actually own it. Bought it back in 1900

[wooden warren]

What a legend

[sleek spindle]

if the low countries stayed united, ww1 would have either never involved them (this one is more unlikely) or would have been harder on the germans, ww2 would have also been harder on them

[meager jolt]

They were rightfully earned, hot take

Especially Kalingrad, Wehraboos and German chauvinists can cope on that

[sleek spindle]

hes alr gon

dont beat a dead corpse

fuck it beat it all you want

[wooden warren]

I would say this is not controversial at all seems abit out of place don't you think

just facts

[meager jolt]

Why do some people, especially non germans glazing German chauvinist pieces on German history want Kalingrad German?

Its already Russified at this point, the people there are majority if not outright all Russians, unless those glazers are contemplating genocide

[sleek spindle]

People who want Revanchonism dont think about the natives

[wooden warren]

Hmm interesting question

one I don't quite know how to answer

[meager jolt]

Nationalists and revanchists are the scraping of the barrel socially imo

Having pride in militarism or some "strong" authority/identity speaks of lack of self strength or merit.

If that's the only thing one has pride over.

[wooden warren]

Second times a charm?😉

nah just kidding

Russians are not, have not and never will be moving out of "East Prussia"

without specific action of course

[meager jolt]

Yeah, they won't besides they've earned it anyways

Any revanchists or nationalists in Germany, Baltics or elsewhere trying to dispute that can cope on that

[wooden warren]

I can agree with that mostly anyway

[sleek spindle]

the last bit of prussian culture and militarism died toghether with the DDR

[meager jolt]

"Prussian culture and militarism died together with the DDR" How?

[sleek spindle]

the military structure of the ddr was verry prussian more so than west germany and some other social things, the german identity of today is more like western germany and the intire unification basically was obsolving the east german culture (in general culture and tradition stay longer in communist countries)

[meager jolt]

DDR denounced Prussian feudalism/Aristocratic past and its militarism.
As far I can recall, the Bundeswehr didn't diverge that much from the Wehrmacht/Prussian roots in comparison to the NVA.

I don't see anything distinctly "prussian" in either halves, DDR is not Prussia 2.0.

[sleek spindle]

i am aware that its nor prussia 2.0

not saying that

[meager jolt]

I do not understand the "Prussian culture part", its just vague imo.

[sleek spindle]

only that the idea of the prussian foccus on dicipline and the emphasis on duty and collective responcibility

those ideas didnt survive long in west germany

while the ddr held on to these ideals

[meager jolt]

I have slight doubts on that, besides collective civic/national duty was practised in the FRG in the form of conscription/national service.
I disagree with the whole notion of the DDR being the closest or the core inheritor of the Prussian culture and "character".

[sleek spindle]

no im not saying theyre the inheritor

[meager jolt]

Besides, a good chunk of Wehrmacht leadership made up of Prussian junkers made up the military or the political base in the FRG too.

[meager jolt]

Not inheritor per se, but not really the biggest holder of Prussian "values" though, when we look at the West.

I would ascribe it more as it being adapted in both halves at best

[meager jolt]

Truth

[sleek spindle]

Yeah

[solid portal]

Because western colonialism is based!
Duuhhh

[meager jolt]

That is true!! Western colonialism and empires have killed millions more, capitalism has likely killed 3 billion people for centuries which makes it most based!

[burnt bloom]

Least hypocritical behaviour by western countries.

[slim rain]

It's a damn near miracle Alan Turing didn't defect to the USSR or France or West Germany or the U.S

[slim rain]

a take im unsure of: Austria was still a huge risk since Austria had the capability of regaining some influence over the German states Bismarck and Prussia worked so dearly to unite, so it wouldn't have been tolerated during the Austro Prussian war

[meager jolt]

Its a shame Turing did not defect to the USSR