Lunar Anticheat

[elfin steeple]

Lunar having its own anticheat like Vanguard from Valorant. This will reduce hackers in most server and most hackers just inject into Lunar or spoof in order to make people believe they are not cheating. If this was implemented, Lunar could automatically alert their partnered servers if a user was cheating and ban them from servers partnered with Lunar. Not only will this reduce closet cheaters or cheaters in general, this will also persuade servers to partner with LC in turn generating more revenue for Lunar. Win, win for all!

[opaque hawk]

FUCK NO

i would rather not have lunar snooping on everything on my computer

way too proprietary for me to trust

[elfin steeple]

I mean valaront does it, nobody cares when they do it

and you could probably deconple the AC to check

Lunar are decently open

[opaque hawk]

bruh, lunar expressly says decompiling their stuff is illegal

[opaque hawk]

ehhhhh

[elfin steeple]

mevermind

[arctic aspen]

THAT IS
VALORANT

[opaque hawk]

yeah but valorant is valorant, this is an mc client

[arctic aspen]

no they're not lmfao

[elfin steeple]

Well whats the difference tbf

[opaque hawk]

plus valorant doesnt even have linux support

[arctic aspen]

one is VALORANT
one is MINECRAFT

[opaque hawk]

it would break the cross platform stuff

[elfin steeple]

yes i know

[cunning glacier]

No thanks, I like privacy and performance

[opaque hawk]

fr

[arctic aspen]

^^^

[elfin steeple]

it was a suggestion chill

[cunning glacier]

They used to have this and they removed it for a reason

[arctic aspen]

i mean BLC has a fcking weird privacy policy, lunar doesnt need that

[elfin steeple]

they did?

[cunning glacier]

Yep

[elfin steeple]

zzz

[cunning glacier]

Lunar did until they removed aal

[arctic aspen]

mhm

[cunning glacier]

(the anticheat was called aal)

It was removed in 2020

[arctic aspen]

also,

This will reduce hackers in most server and most hackers just inject into Lunar or spoof in order to make people believe they are not cheating.
you do realise clients will just disable the AC right

[cunning glacier]

I used it back when it was a thing

[elfin steeple]

if they can fix the privacy issue soemhow itd be good

[arctic aspen]

the privacy issue is the ENTIRE THING

[cunning glacier]

No can do, that's how anticheats work tbh

[arctic aspen]

that's like "let's make computers without electronics"

[elfin steeple]

wdym

[opaque hawk]

that is literally impossible, and thats just part of the issue

[arctic aspen]

it won't make people believe lunar users aren't cheating

because you could still cheat

[elfin steeple]

yeah thats why i said if they could somehow

[arctic aspen]

but they can't

[cunning glacier]

Just run an outdated build of lunar and inject anyway :p

[elfin steeple]

yes ik but i said if they somehow invent a new way of doing it etc

[arctic aspen]

this. this this

[arctic aspen]

wdym

you don't seem to understand it wouldn't be effective

[opaque hawk]

like without looking at any processes running on the computer or files?

[arctic aspen]

lmfao

[cunning glacier]

Lmao I have archived builds of lunar, I archive before updated I could see me not liking

[opaque hawk]

smart

[arctic aspen]

that's quite a good idea

[elfin steeple]

Well echo ac does this and loads and loads of serve ruses it and they are less known than lunar

[cunning glacier]

I have 2021 replaymod archived

[arctic aspen]

less well known, why?

[elfin steeple]

loads of lunar partnered servers use that

[arctic aspen]

because guess why
people hate spyware!!

[elfin steeple]

bc lunar is huge compsred to echo

[cunning glacier]

Never consent to a screenshare

[arctic aspen]

fr

[cunning glacier]

I like privacy

[elfin steeple]

well echo has been really reliable and if cheaters dont use it if they are suspected chesting staff bans them 🤷‍♂️

[arctic aspen]

echo's site literally screams spyware

[cunning glacier]

You don't need to see my files, I don't care if I'm cheating or not

[elfin steeple]

yes okay okay

[cunning glacier]

You don't need to see my files

[arctic aspen]

good.
I'd rather be banned for denying a screenshare even if i'm not cheating

[elfin steeple]

but people do it anyways because they dont want to be bNned

im just trying to find a solution

[opaque hawk]

thats a terrible choice to have

[arctic aspen]

or bc they don't care about privacy

[arctic aspen]

the solution is not spyware

[elfin steeple]

yes tell that to the people who dont which is like 80% of some servers playerbase

[inner kettle]

hell no

[arctic aspen]

BEDWARS PRACTICE DOES SCEENSHARES??

[elfin steeple]

yes

[inner kettle]

bro played too much valorant 💀

[opaque hawk]

lmao

[cunning glacier]

Lunar literally had this and they removed it for a reason, and not to mention they get bypassed quickly

[arctic aspen]

exactly what i've been saying, thank you

[elfin steeple]

lunar partner servers use it too

[elfin steeple]

i dont even have it installed

[arctic aspen]

so?

[opaque hawk]

lunars gonna roll out a ring 0 kernel anticheat and that'll fix the problem

[sonic dagger]

I mean in the beginning lunar had an anticheat

[elfin steeple]

like i said i was simply suggesting you guys dont have to go all out

[arctic aspen]

let's make malware persistant through resets!!!

[cunning glacier]

Flash my bios with no cheating in block game bios

[sonic dagger]

But I can't remember why the removed it

[opaque hawk]

i love rootkits!

[arctic aspen]

suggesting spyware is such a great idea!!!!

[arctic aspen]

me too! I love buying a new motherboard every time some mod is like "uwu theyre too good"

[elfin steeple]

yes o totally was suggesting spyware intentionally

[arctic aspen]

you were

[cunning glacier]

I gtg but you get my point lol, let's not add this

[elfin steeple]

how?

[inner kettle]

💀

[arctic aspen]

you were saying that instead of making a good ac, they do somehting else

[elfin steeple]

i was showing an existing software to prove my point

[inner kettle]

[elfin steeple]

show where

[sonic dagger]

Lunar used to have an anticheat and you only had the little lunar icon it you had it enabled. So back then it was a relatively small, clean pvp client that proved you were legit

[arctic aspen]

software which is literally spyware lmao

[elfin steeple]

literally but youve never even seen it used before

[sonic dagger]

But i reckon for sakes of approachability they removed it

But idk

[elfin steeple]

^ proabbly

[arctic aspen]

why would I?

I don't want spyware installed. I don't want some random on my pc looking through EVERYTHING

[elfin steeple]

echo ac is used by tons of servers averaging thousand of members

[arctic aspen]

so?

it's still weird

^^^

[elfin steeple]

i think by now someone would hav exposed it for maleare

[sonic dagger]

Bro's got cp hidden away on his pc or what 💀

[elfin steeple]

since its been here long time

[opaque hawk]

it is spyware, nobody cares about their privacy though

[arctic aspen]

ew no i just have unencrypted passwords lmfao

[sonic dagger]

You think Lunar will turn into a token logger?

[elfin steeple]

then dont consent im not saying you have to

[arctic aspen]

i never said that

[sonic dagger]

Well

[elfin steeple]

exactly

[arctic aspen]

i said i don't want some human to be a token logger

[sonic dagger]

It wont be a person

[elfin steeple]

why would lunar waste a perfectly good profitable thing go to waste

[sonic dagger]

That's not hkw an antjcheat works

[arctic aspen]

how is it profitable

[opaque hawk]

that shoudnt even be a choice u have to make, because if it gets added, then people will asume you're cheating f you dont have it enabled

[arctic aspen]

i never said it was, i was talking about screenshares done by humans

[arctic aspen]

^^^

[elfin steeple]

🤷‍♂️

[sonic dagger]

Ofc you don't want to ss random ppl over anydesk for example

[arctic aspen]

exactly, thats what i was saying

[elfin steeple]

I was just suggesting an idea, stop trying to make a whole fuss about it, it was merely an idea I didnt think too deep into it

[arctic aspen]

"oh yes 🤷 idc about legit players who care about privacy"

[elfin steeple]

I just provided examples of my existing ideas

[arctic aspen]

your examples were basically spyware

[sonic dagger]

I thought you were talking abt an anticheat

[opaque hawk]

i mean ok, we're just saying its a feature we would really not want implemented

[elfin steeple]

which servers use and people consent bc they dont want to be banned from their servers they main 20 hours a day

[elfin steeple]

I just said i dont know

[arctic aspen]

still, i would rather be banned than have spyware installed

[elfin steeple]

no need to get all defensive about it jesus

[arctic aspen]

a "normal" clientside AC that functions like a serverside one could never be effective

[sonic dagger]

There is probably a good reason lunar doesn't have an ac no more

[elfin steeple]

yes alright and im saying most people wouldnt

i dodnt say you were wrong

[arctic aspen]

so you're saying innocent people SHOULD be banned?

[opaque hawk]

ok arctiz do you now see why an anticheat would be a bad idea?

[elfin steeple]

jit i didnt say that

stop twisting my words into the extreme

[elfin steeple]

im saying most people cheat on purpose to gain an advantage and they dont wont to refuse ss becasue they dont want to get banned from servers they main 24/7

[arctic aspen]

so people who cheat, won't refuse to an ss because they don't want to be banned?

[inner kettle]

if they get banned itd be a good opportunity for them to get a life tbh

[elfin steeple]

i said most people wouldnt refuse ss because thye will be banned from servers otherwise, this is already an existing rules in most servers that ss

[elfin steeple]

mums

but thye just buy unban anyways amking more revenue to servers

[arctic aspen]

is that not against the EULA

[inner kettle]

UNBANS

what kind of servers are you talking about

p2w? 💀

[arctic aspen]

but reasonable [innocent] people would refuse because they don't want (a) spyware or (b) a random snooping around their ocmputer

[elfin steeple]

change your name stop taking everything to the extreme jesus im just having solid debate no need to be all annoying abt it

[arctic aspen]

solid debate towards spyware yes indeed good

[elfin steeple]

it is and lunar partnered servers still do these

[arctic aspen]

so?

how does a server being lunar partnered exclude them from the EULA

[elfin steeple]

jesus oh my god calm down, im not intending on spyware, like i said i didnt think of these stuff when i elaborated in the first message

[elfin steeple]

providing existing examples innit

[opaque hawk]

awesome, we've established that this is a bad idea, great.

[arctic aspen]

yep

alright i'm going to leave before my brain dissolves

[opaque hawk]

time for everyone to chill

[elfin steeple]

to each their own

[opaque hawk]

yup good idea cya

[opaque hawk]

??

[elfin steeple]

opinions

[arctic aspen]

oh yes it's a subjective opinion that spyware bad

[elfin steeple]

???? its an opinion chill

[arctic aspen]

definitely not objectively bad no no some non-criminals think spyware good!

[opaque hawk]

yup, I hope ur opinion on the anticheat has been changed though, because ur old opinion was bad

[elfin steeple]

flat earthers still exist and eveyrhting chill

[opaque hawk]

ok but you see now ur comparing urself to flat earthers

[arctic aspen]

so you're now saying flat earthers are right?

[elfin steeple]

no im saying they stil exist

you man are being passive aggressive calm down

[opaque hawk]

and they are objectively wrong

[elfin steeple]

im ujst saying we all got opinions why u dragging

[arctic aspen]

are you saying both sides have a valid opinion?

[elfin steeple]

alright so vanguard from val thats still spyware

millions of people play

[opaque hawk]

isnt vanguard the rootkit?

[arctic aspen]

yes

[elfin steeple]

yes as this already exist but not impleneted on lunar, server owners already use it

[arctic aspen]

if you think both sides can have valid opinions, does that mean if someone tried to argue killing people is good, you'd say they have a valid opinion?

[opaque hawk]

its worse than spyware, its a rootkit that gives people a potentially devastating attack vector into your computer

[elfin steeple]

chill g why you getting into philosophy

[elfin steeple]

oh well people play anyways, tell that to the millions that play

i guarantee many of those people know but play anyways

[arctic aspen]

they probably actually don't know what it does

[elfin steeple]

i said many of those people

[arctic aspen]

because nobody reads the TOS when installing valorant

[elfin steeple]

read what i said

[opaque hawk]

yeah. that doesnt mean valorant is good.
millionsof people think meta products are good products, even though meta has enabled genocide. Does that make meta products good?
you cant look at a lack of knowlege and make conclusions about stuff

[arctic aspen]

but what is your definition of many

everyone but 1? 50+%? 90%?

[elfin steeple]

okay lets say i didnt say many, a minority

they know they stillplay

[arctic aspen]

and how many of those people care about their device

[opaque hawk]

i dont see how this makes a rootkit ok

[arctic aspen]

and how many of those people go "ah yeah sure it's a big company they'd never actually abuse the rookit tho"

[elfin steeple]

did i ever say it was okay? NO i said they do it anyways, STOP TWISTING MY WORDS

[inner kettle]

yall dial it down lol

[arctic aspen]

you don't need to directly say something in order to infer a point

[opaque hawk]

OK. so rootkits are bad, and anticheats are bad. Lunar shouldnt implement an anticheat. glad we've reached a conclusion and you agree.

[elfin steeple]

listen if you were madly addicted to something you would do it anyways, those people dont care

[elfin steeple]

okay what did i say that gave the inference of rookits are good

[arctic aspen]

where did good come from lmao

[elfin steeple]

i never agreed but okay

[opaque hawk]

so is a rootkit good/acceptable?

[elfin steeple]

fine, okay then

[arctic aspen]

so you don't agree they're bad?

[elfin steeple]

stop twisting my words, you said "you agree", i said no

omd

[opaque hawk]

which part dont you agree with

[arctic aspen]

so you agree a rookit isn't bad?

[opaque hawk]

why are you making this so difficult

[elfin steeple]

blud stop choosing what you want to believe

rookit bad, anti-cheat can be bad, lunar could impelement anticheat if everything is good and people can consent or not

[arctic aspen]

right let's just make this clear:
do you, or do you not agree that rootkits are good or acceptable?

[arctic aspen]

but if people don't consent they'll be assumed to be not legit

rookit bad
thank you. so why did you say lunar should do something like vanguard?

just for proof:

[opaque hawk]

ok but we already established that "consent" wouldnt actually be consent because if you dont consent you get treated like a cheater. and weve established tah its impossible to have an anticheat that respects privacy.

[elfin steeple]

well server owners will just ss them if people who didnt consent and if theya re cheating, ss will get them banend anyways

[opaque hawk]

ss is even worse at respecting privacy

[arctic aspen]

so you agree a random looking inside someone's computer is good?

[arctic aspen]

^^^

[elfin steeple]

i said like, i didnt make you infer they should make it a rookit

at that point before all this it was merely an idea

[arctic aspen]

what would your reaction if you brought your computer to a shop to be repaired and the person looked around your computer? serious question

[elfin steeple]

i never said that

[arctic aspen]

answer my question pls

[elfin steeple]

i have numerous times

[arctic aspen]

you never did

[arctic aspen]

no response to this

[elfin steeple]

let me type holy

just wait if you want an response

[arctic aspen]

it's a yes or no lmfao

[bleak sierra]

Lunar had an anticheat, but removed it

because it is quite useless

[arctic aspen]

well not a yes or no but a "thats bad" or "thats good"

[elfin steeple]

i said similar stuff to this: people who madly play the server and want to gain a competive advantage will cheat, and staff will offer ss, if they refuse they ban but msot of them wont refuse because they want to not be banned if they werent cheating

[arctic aspen]

answer my question

[elfin steeple]

no bc you keep twisint my words

[arctic aspen]

what would your reaction if you brought your computer to a shop to be repaired and the person looked around your computer? serious question. do you think that is acceptable?

[elfin steeple]

i just remove my stuf lfmao

[opaque hawk]

ok lets reset.

1. Privacy is good, and lunar should not infringe upon that in any way, nor enable others to infringe upon that.
2. Anticheats don't respect privacy.
3. If you opt out of an anticheat, you still lose privacy because now people assume ur cheating, and u have to screenshare.
4. Thus there is no way to implement an anticheat that is good.
5. Because there is no way to implement an anticheat that is good, lunar should not implement an anticheat.
   @elfin steeple do you agree with this

[arctic aspen]

and again, what would your reaction if you brought your computer to a shop to be repaired and the person looked around your computer? do you think that is acceptable?

[elfin steeple]

your making your questions one sides

[arctic aspen]

answer the questions lmfao

[elfin steeple]

so i have to agree with you in everyway

[arctic aspen]

you'd intentionally avoiding answering basic obvious moral questions

[elfin steeple]

shut up its biased questioning

[opaque hawk]

Yes, that is how it works. I am showing you a logical conclusion.

[arctic aspen]

what would your reaction if you brought your computer to a shop to be repaired and the person looked around your computer? do you think that is acceptable? i'm just going to assume yes if you don't respond

[bleak sierra]

I don't think an anticheat has to infringe on privacy, I don't know what you are doing in your .minecraft folder but it shouldn't be much

[elfin steeple]

i responded learn to read scroll up

[opaque hawk]

yeah but an anticheat HAS to look other places, otherwise its useless.

[arctic aspen]

link me the message

[opaque hawk]

@elfin steeple is ther any part of this that you disagree with?

[bleak sierra]

what do you think the anticheat would do? Send all of your private stuff straight to lunar?

[elfin steeple]

Privacy good
anti cheat may not respect privacy
if you opt out and youre hacking, leads to same thing anyways and people who assumes youre cheating will just assume lmfao
it may be possible in the future
no

[elfin steeple]

@arctic aspen

[opaque hawk]

I dont know what it is doing. that is the problem. i dont want anytthubg looking through my stuff

[bleak sierra]

I have seen worse

[arctic aspen]

so you format your pc before getting it fixed?

[river knot]

Guys

Topic 😭

[arctic aspen]

this is on topic

[bleak sierra]

simple, scans your computer for cheat patterns, not more

[elfin steeple]

literally just learn to fix yourself or just take awy your ssd or something idk if thats possibel tho

[arctic aspen]

wtf are cheat patterns

[elfin steeple]

mums

[river knot]

How this went from anti cheat to "formating pc"

[arctic aspen]

huh?

[bleak sierra]

how alot of cheats are representing

[arctic aspen]

it went from anti cheat to moral issues

[elfin steeple]

yes because you dragged it there

i aint tryna deep this and you man here bringing philoshopy and i aint never done that lmfao

[arctic aspen]

but that wouldnt mean you were cheating at the time
like a lot of youtubers have done a "omg lets try hacky clienty wienty uwu" videos, but they don't cheat, but according to this they'd deserve a ban

[elfin steeple]

thats not what he means i think

[arctic aspen]

what does he mean then

[elfin steeple]

i think he means like the cheat clients similar patterns to each other

liek the software side

[bleak sierra]

no? The idea is (I hope) that when you join a partnered server the anticheat would try to scan if cheats are active and ban you

[opaque hawk]

if you opt out and youre hacking, leads to same thing anyways and people who assumes youre cheating will just assume lmfao
If you dont have the AC enabled, people assume ur hacking even if u aren't, and you get banned. Thus, having an anticheat is likely to either lead to an invasion of privacy, or an innocent player getting banned

it may be possible in the future
Ok, but we have literally just established it is impossible to create an anticheat that is good, because all anticheats are bad.

[opaque hawk]

when lunar had it, it looked at all running processes on ur computer and also all files on ur computer.

[bleak sierra]

what else do you want it to do "only look in this 1 file"

[elfin steeple]

why would you get banned for ahckign if you arent

you dont know that lunar might do a huge breakthrough in technological means and be the leading factor of security

nothing is impossible love

and anyways just opt out

[opaque hawk]

I want it to not exist. If it has to look through everything, it shouldnt exist.

[opaque hawk]

Because people assume that ur hacking, cause thats easier for them. If someonedisabled the anticheat, it is fair to be signifcantly more suspicous of them than people with anticheat enabled.

[elfin steeple]

maybe more suspicious, how will you get banned?

[opaque hawk]

you dont know that lunar might do a huge breakthrough in technological means and be the leading factor of security

How the fuck would lunar be able to prevent hacked client processes from running without looking at all of the processes that are running. Its impossible

[arctic aspen]

because if you intentionally disable the thing that """confirms""" you're """not cheating""" it's """clear""" you're cheating

[opaque hawk]

Some things are

[arctic aspen]

alright i have to go for a bit and i am glad my brain shall recover

[elfin steeple]

blud chill, it was satire but it may be true you never know

they may develop new internet you never know

[opaque hawk]

Server adds lunar ac integration
Player has it disabled.
Player gets reported, cause their ping made them move weird, or someone was mad, or some other reason.
Player has to scrteenshare cause they dont have the AC, but doesnt consent to that
Player gets banned.

[opaque hawk]

💀

[opaque hawk]

alr cya

[elfin steeple]

ping is common excuse people just be blinking instead, and if they dont consent and thye get banned they probably arent addicted and good for them!

[opaque hawk]

if they dont consent and thye get banned they probably arent addicted and good for them!
ok but do you see how banning innocent players is a bad thing

[elfin steeple]

yes however most people will accept because they dont see the privacy concerns iwth it and you cannot educated this much people easily so they will do it anyways

[opaque hawk]

...ok?

does that make it ok to ban innocent players?

[elfin steeple]

youre saying something thats is already happening with the use of echo and people do it anyways

[opaque hawk]

lunar ac would make it more widespread

[elfin steeple]

no it doesnt but its already happening! and many of lunar partnered servers do this!

[opaque hawk]

Ok. So a Lunar AC would make the problem worse. Thus a lunar AC is a bad idea. Do u understand that?

[elfin steeple]

no

[opaque hawk]

god fucking dammit i give up

hopefully the 8 downvotes speak for themselves

[elfin steeple]

echo is already being used, server owners love it and if lunar does soemthing similar, it will be more intgrated

[elfin steeple]

yes but once again you never know, like that reddit day or something where communities went private, or something not sure if that worked tho

[lilac jacinth]

How in the world does this have 300+ messages already