Toxic dead buff

[livid mesa]

I'm really tired of this game's toxic dead injustice. Okay, they don't have movement speed, but I don't understand why their range is less than archidons and eclipsor. They move slowly, they die before they catch up with archidons and their damage is very low compared to archidons, so their disadvantages outweigh their advantages. Also, marrowkai, who is supposed to be the general of the dead, has no toxic ability. Unless I add a toxic upgrade to the deck, it has no toxic ability. No toxic immunity either. "Finally, the unit poisoned by toxic dead should be toxic dead if it is archidon and dead spearton if it is spearton because otherwise archidons and other units kill them in two hits" . Strengthen the chaos unit for a fairer game. #general

[naive slate]

I understood everything until the last part

[minor lily]

Tdeads rn are kinda OP

Also, the RoR buff at the end is a straight

[naive slate]

Yeh, spears and juggs get fcked around an armada of them lol

[minor lily]

Tdeads have the highest DPS against tanks out of every ranged unit and they're tanky too, especially with RoR

[naive slate]

The only thing immune from RoR are deads 😭

The giant deads too

[minor lily]

They also don't need forge or armory (armory it ror, which is pretty much always used with tdeads) until later into the match, which allows to get temple and barracks (pretty useful for BB which is common with tdeads + tower spawns which is one of the 2 meta deadspam decks)

[naive slate]

Don't these have less hp than tdeads or am I tripping

[minor lily]

If deadspam, or just tdeads in general take tower, they are NOT getting forced off unless you use a general or a strong early-mid setup that also has cure and heal to deal with tdeads poison

[minor lily]

They have 360 HP

[naive slate]

[minor lily]

Technically 300 HP

Since RoR for some reason affects the RoR deads too

[livid mesa]

This is the way it should be when we think logically, and you forgot one thing, toxic dead is the least hitting against non-tank units, not to mention its short range and attack speed is less than archidons, there is not much difference between it and archidons in terms of damage. Finally, for toxic dead to reach its full potential you need to take more than one thing in your deck, but this is not the case for archidons.

[naive slate]

[minor lily]

Tdeads do 17 damage to heavies without needing any upgrades, have faster attack speed than archers, and have poison damage

[naive slate]

Toxic deads tankiness makes them deal more damage overall too, pair them with hhw or atleast meat shielders like deads and you got something deadly

[minor lily]

Also, you really only need 1 extra card if you want strong tdeads, which is the same case for archers as they need a good healing card, an archer general, or spearos

Tdeads in defense are unrivaled

Even without RoR, they're still the strongest ranged unit for defense

Them being tanky also means that they can fight on their own without needing a tank

Unlike the other 2 ranged units which need a tank or else they die

[naive slate]

Full potential?
And take more than one thing in your deck?

[livid mesa]

I use spearton spam as a toxic dead user, but when you can't take the middle tower or you lose the middle tower, the game is 90% over for you. Because you recover late and if they attack while you are trying to recover, you don't retreat because you are too slow. If you counterattack, you get a nice damage by archidons because you are slow to take the middle tower and your range is short, and then you are already defeated. Finally, I forgot to mention that I don't understand how toxic dead still takes up 5 units of space despite having so many disadvantages.

[minor lily]

Not really

There are decks with tdeads that have strong late-game potential

[naive slate]

I remember tdeads being infront of spears back then, is that still applied today?

[minor lily]

Yes

Deads are always in front of other units when in formation

[naive slate]

Not 90%, more near 50% if opponents deck isn't outright a counter

[naive slate]

The range isn't THAT short

Can I see what deck do you use for tdeads?

[livid mesa]

But it makes a difference because they don't have enough speed to catch up.

[minor lily]

Tdeads are tanky too, don't forget that

Also, 1 hit from a tdead is guaranteed death or forced garrison for the archer, while the tdead can tank up to 30 arrows

[naive slate]

Also the spears could probably tank some arrows from the archidons because of the speed difference

[livid mesa]

I only use this deck, it's not fun to play with others

[naive slate]

Not bad

You don't have eg though

(Eg - Early game)

<;

[livid mesa]

For the early game, I make a tdead and send it to the middle tower, at that time I make the speartonspam upgrade, if I can defend it, I continue to make a tdead and most likely I win, otherwise I lose.

[naive slate]

OHH THAT'S WHAT YOU MEAN BY SPEARTON SPAM 😭

[livid mesa]

Yes

[livid mesa]

You constantly emphasize that it is a tank, but it is not exactly a tank, and if it did not have so much health, tdead would not be played. It has so much health because it is already slow and it is not enough, and that is another issue.

[naive slate]

Heh???

The hp is not enough?

Also deads are meant to be slow

If you want fast then look at pouncers

They also have the heavy attribute which makes the slow speed make more sense

You could also use HHW with them and make them literally unkillable for a few seconds

(Not exactly unkillable but you get what I mean)

[livid mesa]

I agree that toxic dead is very strong in one-on-one but if archidon comes with a spearton you will lose. Because by the time you make one, they will have made two or even more. They will develop faster and you slower. Also, if you take an area heal against tdead, you will put them in a difficult enough situation. Not to mention the electric tower spell

[minor lily]

Don't forget that tdeads can pretty much guarantee an archer's death or force a garrison, tho tesla is a problem

Just tdeads can't beat archer + spear (if the enemy knows what they're doing), but again, that's a counter to spam and just tdeads is spam

[minor lily]

You don't have any good cards for forcing tower control...

[livid mesa]

@naive slate Can you be a little clearer, I don't speak English and I don't understand what you are saying in translation

[naive slate]

Just pure brute force and poison

[naive slate]

HHW > Heavy Healing Wisp
Also what I meant as tdeads being meant to be slow because they're you know, deads?
And most deads suffer from being slow

You atleast have acid rain to help a little bit

[livid mesa]

I don't have a problem with them being slow, my real problem is that they don't balance, they are slow but they also have low range, are expensive compared to other units, and take up 5 units of space (meaning less tdead in a longer game). The speed given by acid rain should make you faster than other units in order to be an advantage, but it just evens things out. Almost every deck has area healing for him anyway, so it doesn't make sense to get him just for a little speed.

[livid mesa]

Because there is no good card to force the tower card. For this, the spell of turning into dead when tdead poisons needs to be developed. In other words, just as a larger dead is born when giants die, when spearton dies, a shielded dead needs to be born, and the same for archidon, he needs to be born as a tdead (like in Stick War Legacy). Finally, Medusa and the tdead general should come to the game urgently. There is a lot more I want to say but it will be too long.

[naive slate]

Good points, though less tdeads may be for the greater good (6 of them can make frontlines like jelly easily)

They're not that expensive

[naive slate]

When giants die a larger dead is infact born

[livid mesa]

Yes, but since there is a comparison, they are expensive. So it is easier to make an archidon or a spearton, and since it is a medium tower, speartons reach earlier with their speed.

[naive slate]

Medusa is dead so it won't be following the aftermath of the story and wouldn't make sense for her to be added to the game
Tdead general when tdeads are already good enough..
I don't agree with making archidons turn to tdeads when they die since the population difference is clear (3 pop turning into 5 pop)
And also spears turning into a shielded dead

[naive slate]

When you know your enemy has good control of the tower you don't attack, build up your army to kill their speartons quickly and make work of their archidons
By the time you have middle against a spearcher user you most likely have won..
Also the cost makes up for their poison and dps shredding damage, not their speed

[static snow]

Me when deck has tdead but no dead:

[static snow]

Rn there's giant dead but no other dead types yet. We'll just have to see if they get added.

[livid mesa]

Instead of Medusa, her daughter Petra could be. I don't think the dead are as strong as you think. Archidon is debatable, but when speartons are born dead, they are born as normal dead (only with shields in Stick War Legacy) and they are born bigger and stronger than giants.

[livid mesa]

There are two Archidon generals in the game and both of them are not bad, even one of them is op. So why shouldn't there be one in chaos?

[naive slate]

Both of the archidon generals are op lol, also chaos does need some generals but not for tdeads anytime soon (unless it's like a deadkai type thing)

[livid mesa]

It definitely needs to be added so that tdead has some meaning.

[livid mesa]

I don't understand

[naive slate]

We have Toxic Totality also btw, so it would make chaos legitimately the most overpowered meta (behind kytchu and some meta) if those get added 😭

[naive slate]

Deads are pretty strong, have you seen the full potential of rune of reanimation?
A horde of deads..

[naive slate]

The spearton deads in stick war legacy are so tanky, I could not imagine them being added 😭

[naive slate]

He meant
"when a deck has tdeads but there are no regular deads:"

[livid mesa]

I don't know much about either of them since I've never played them, but arrow rain is really op. I think a tdead general is definitely needed. Also, marrowkai needs to be immune to poison and should be able to poison his fists without a poison upgrade, otherwise it's a logical error for a general. Also, spearton has more than one general. What does chaos lack from these?

[naive slate]

Marrowkai is already strong enough with toxic totality, he's also basically nearly immune to poison since he has every chaos attribute known to man

[livid mesa]

I think chaos needs to happen in order to get the value it deserves.

[livid mesa]

Yes I know but for this you need to have a solid tdead army and complete the poison upgrade. This takes a long time

[minor lily]

1. The tower isn't a card
2. There are many cards that would help you with forcing tower control, mainly a damage spell like lightning storm or scorch and an unit for helping with early game such as deads

[naive slate]

You don't need complete poison upgrade..

[livid mesa]

Yes but the punch skill needs to be able to apply poison without any upgrades

[minor lily]

I don't think you realize how OP that would be

[naive slate]

...

Doesn't poison last forever unless cured or garrisoned..

Why more poison when poison-

Mkay..

[minor lily]

Marrowkai, PB and TT, and only 2 cards to help with forcing tower control, one of which is already considered as a necessity...

[livid mesa]

Normal mages can both stun and burn. Why can't Marrowkai do the same as a general?

[naive slate]

Because those are temporary

And don't have the shit- ton of splash like marrowkai's hellfist does

[minor lily]

Poison is a lot different from burn + marrowkai has stun too, also, Marrowkai's hellfist has a lot more AOE than magikill fulminate which means more units poisoned per hellfist, it'd be hella OP

Gtg now

[naive slate]

Yuh

[livid mesa]

2. All of the above can be blocked by a single healing path.

[static snow]

Generals can just cure the poison after a while.

[naive slate]

Yep, basically passive healing and cure :b

[livid mesa]

I know

[static snow]

Only cure in multiplayer.

Also due to how TT works the dead's poison override the tdead's poison which leads to lower poison dps to enemy tanks so I don't really see a point in using it.

[livid mesa]

It wouldn't be as op as you think, but it would be strong, which it should be. Also, if you balance the poison damage, it won't be that op.

[naive slate]

Healing path?
One XII scorch would cripple swordwraths and archidons 😭
Don't even get me started on volt lightning storm..
Unless you're using thera nothing is surviving both of these spells

[naive slate]

You're talking to fan ideas guy.. And calling him wrong 😭
You have no idea

[livid mesa]

Sorry but I don't understand

[naive slate]

What he means is that poison doesn't stack with poison, meaning if you give a unit 3 poison damage each tick, and give them 2 poison damage each tick after, the 2 overrides the 3, leading to weaker poison

[livid mesa]

I don't think so, it will be the one that deals higher poison damage, not the lower one.

[naive slate]

That's basically how it works here.. You can't change it unfortunately

[static snow]

Game mechanic sh-tting on how you would want to play. I'm no stranger to it.

[livid mesa]

First of all, I didn't tell him he was wrong. On the contrary, I said he was right but not as much as he said. Secondly, I won't approve of everything he says just because he is a fan of ideas. I have my own ideas and thoughts like everyone else.

[naive slate]

I think the translations are twisting your words a lot.. What do you use for it?

[livid mesa]

I am currently using Google Translate but normally I use deppl

[livid mesa]

I'll have to try it but I still don't think so.

[naive slate]

"It wouldn't be as op as you think, but it would be strong"
Basically the same thing, just giving him 1 poison damage would make it op since pairing him with toxic totality would be more powerful

[livid mesa]

Once you get the poison upgrade his fists deal poison damage, which makes him strong but not that strong. I mean he should deal poison damage without getting the poison upgrade, he is a chaos general after all.

[naive slate]

By the time you have marrowkai you would probably have temple I, meaning you have poison already..

Also if tdeads poison stack with tt, means tt would stack with the marrowkai having poison

[static snow]

I'd argue making him a good unit buffer to units with dead tag in the same way as kytchu being a good unit buffer to archers would be what could make him op. Otherwise he's more or less just gonna be mid considering what kytchu and atreyos can do.

[livid mesa]

By the time you have marrowkai you would probably have temple I, meaning you have poison already..

[minor lily]

Acid rain temporarily disables merics from healing
Scorch has a lot of DPS which healing ward can't outheal
No one would use a healing spell over lightning storm unless a lot of units are inflicted with spark
Deads are units, healing doesn't counter them

[minor lily]

And TT marrowkai is OP even though it's overall weaker than your hellfist buff idea

[minor lily]

The hell is this supposed to mean

[minor lily]

You really don't realize how strong poison is

[livid mesa]

What does Tt mean?

[minor lily]

Toxic totality aka the poison upgrade

[livid mesa]

No, I like to play with chaos because poison is powerful. What I meant was that marrowkai is more useful with the poison fist.

[minor lily]

Yeah no sht, of course he's better with poison

[livid mesa]

Okey thanks

[minor lily]

Also, you said "not that strong", which is just wrong

[livid mesa]

Yes, that's why that update needs to come.

[minor lily]

You really REALLY don't realize how OP poison is

[livid mesa]

Look, really, the poison is powerful, very powerful, but the marrowkai is incomplete without the poison.

[minor lily]

Give him a proper fcking buff instead of intentionally making him OP

[livid mesa]

I think it's balanced, if you keep the poison damage balanced it's fine, but if you miss the balance then it's really op

[minor lily]

Nope, still OP, Marrowkai's not even that bad, other stuff is just OP

Just buff his summon and hellfist cooldowns to 25 seconds instead of 30 and make reap ability be able to target units instead of reaping the front most unit

[livid mesa]

I absolutely agree on that.

[livid mesa]

The reaper ability should also deal damage

[minor lily]

This ain't sw2 or SE

Reap doesn't need damage

It just needs being able to do what it's meant to do, which is not damage

[livid mesa]

I know, but it has to be

[minor lily]

It simply will not work

Sw3 is far, FAR different from any of the other sw games

[livid mesa]

Why

[minor lily]

Sw3 is just too different from any of the other sw games

[livid mesa]

If the aim is to be different, the poison punch must come

[minor lily]

???

How is that related to what I said?

[livid mesa]

Sorry

[livid mesa]

Translation error

[minor lily]

Ah

[livid mesa]

I edited the message

[minor lily]

Uh, no, sw3 is already hella different from other sw games, and again, poison hellfist is OP

[livid mesa]

With the poison upgrade, the fist of the ilik kain deals poison damage, including all other chaos units, and the maximum poison damage is 3

[minor lily]

That's OP too

[livid mesa]

Then they should weaken all the chaos units, including the marrowkai, so that you can relax and I can relax.

[minor lily]

Or nerf the actual problem which is poison

You have the same sense of balance as CJ

[livid mesa]

Cj?

[minor lily]

Also, eclipsors need a nerf, crawlers need a rework, and tdeads need a massive rework

[minor lily]

Crazyjay, the lead developer of this game

[livid mesa]

The poison is what makes chaos chaos. Instead of weakening the poison, remove the chaos unit directly from the game

[minor lily]

The poison isn't what makes chaos chaos... Chaos has a lot of other things too, they just excel at poison in comparison to the other factions...

[livid mesa]

I know Crazyjay. I'm just not used to abbreviations.

[livid mesa]

"I definitely think the crawler needs to be updated because they are very dysfunctional."

[livid mesa]

"If it weren't for the poison, it wouldn't be any different from the order empire. If toxic dead cannot throw poison, it would be worse than archidon. If there were no poison damage, the dead wouldn't be born either. Its only advantage would be the normal zombies crowding and attacking. This would not be any different from the sworwraths, and would even be worse. That's why the poison is what makes chaos, chaos."

[minor lily]

Outright wrong

The chaos empire isn't the deads empire

Without deads, chaos is still chaos

[livid mesa]

So what and who makes chaos chaos?

[minor lily]

Y'know, CHAOS

You're ignoring so much stuff that chaos has

[livid mesa]

like what for example

[livid mesa]

Hahaha Okey

[minor lily]

Crawlers, juggerknights, giants

The many combinations you can make with chaos units

The aggressiveness and rush potential which chaos excels in compared to the other factions

Being able to prolong attacks through smart cycling and utilizing the passive heal

[livid mesa]

Then it is the units that make chaos chaos. Because you cannot do it with units of order.

[minor lily]

Exactly

Deads aren't the only chaos units

[livid mesa]

Right, but they are the majority, right?

[minor lily]

Only 1 dead in se/sw2 and 3 deads out of the 8 chaos units

[livid mesa]

I don't quite understand what you mean here

[minor lily]

In SE, there are 9 chaos units, and only one of them is a dead
In sw3, there are 8 chaos units, and 3 of them are dead, which is less than half

[livid mesa]

Sw3 is just too different from any of the other sw games

[minor lily]

What does that have to do with most chaos units not being deads?

[livid mesa]

The thing is that we shouldn't base this game on other sw games and the most used unit in this game is the dead.

[minor lily]

1. There are a few things in SE that need to be implemented in sw3, such as making tdeads similar to SE deads and making sw3 crawlers similar to their SE counterpart (keyword: similar)
2. You are factually wrong, deads aren't the most used unit in sw3

Also, I never mentioned anything about basing sw3 on other sw games (before the thing I just said)

[livid mesa]

I never played SE but I watched a few videos of it. crawler is already very bad right now, maybe the SE version is better. I don't know much about toxic dead since I never played SE. Speaking of SE, I wonder when elemental empire will come. as for the second point, considering that every time we use a spell there is a dead spawn and there is a normal dead spawn, dead is the most used unit.

Sorry I'm writing a little late because I'm using translation

[livid mesa]

I know, it's just a misunderstanding, sorry

[minor lily]

About crawlers, they're legit OP but held back by their terrible training time efficiency (which isn't that big of a problem) and spearton's block (hardcounter to crawlers), making them similar to SE would allow them to be weaker in terms of cost and pop efficiency (which they're currently OP in), while also being stronger in their training time efficiency and having enough damage to not their DPS cut by roughly 75% from speartons block

[minor lily]

Np

Also, the deads tower spawn is an upgrade, not an unit, it doesn't count

And even if it did count, it's still not the most used unit

[livid mesa]

Do you think Crawler is op in its current form?

[minor lily]

Yes.

[livid mesa]

And what do you think is the most used unit?

[minor lily]

Likely swords or archers (if we exclude both miners)

Spears are definitely in the top most used too

[livid mesa]

Really? I think Crawler is the worst and most useless unit in the game. I don't know how to buff them since I don't play with them, but from what I've tried, at least their damage and health should increase.

[minor lily]

I have done calculations multiple times and I'm willing to do them again

[livid mesa]

I asked about the chaos empire, but yes spearton and archidons are the most used units (I hate them both)

[minor lily]

Their cost and pop efficiency, in both DPS (damage per second) and HP is higher than every other early game unit (excluding deads since deads are the raw strength unit), being on par with shadowrath, and that's not even including their fast movement speed, small hitbox, and the chaos passive heal and cure

[minor lily]

Then it's either crawlers or eclipsors, more on the eclipsors side tho

[livid mesa]

So it's not a unit I use, it's whatever you want it to be.

[livid mesa]

I'm torn between eclipse and death

[minor lily]

What???

I'm not a dev

I can't just change crawlers stats

[livid mesa]

I know. I don't use Crawler very much, so I don't know the pros or cons. so I mean I can't make a comment

Crawler has the lowest health and attack power of all

[minor lily]

Individually, yes, but I said their cost and pop (population) efficiency, not their individual efficiency

[livid mesa]

Then you're right.

[livid mesa]

But isn't individuality more important in the early game?

[minor lily]

At the start, yes, but in early-mid, which is somewhere about the 2:00 minutes mark, cost efficiency becomes much more important

Also

[livid mesa]

Absolutely.

[minor lily]

Crawlers are spam units like swordwrath and sicklewrath, and due to that, their pop efficiency is important too since it's useful in mid-late game

And due to crawlers incredible pop efficiency, in late-game, they can outpower other early game units (except deads)

[livid mesa]

I don't think they will be very useful in the mid-game, because archidons with very low health can kill in two hits. If there is a mage they are absolutely useless

[livid mesa]

I agree. Crawler's mass attack is very effective.

[minor lily]

They're useful even in mid-late game, in fact, with the correct deck, it can even beat kytchu decks

[livid mesa]

If there is a sorcerer, it is difficult to defeat, but if it is only spearton and archidon, it can be

And with the right deck, you can beat anyone.

[minor lily]

Yeah magiks in late-game are unbeatable for melee based decks that aren't tank spam or have a strong backline sniper against magikill

[minor lily]

Well, no, every deck has counters, even if it's few

[livid mesa]

The right deck is to make different combinations for each opponent.

[minor lily]

If you focus too much on versatility, your deck will eventually end up not being versatile or powerful enough

[livid mesa]

If you build a deck that blocks certain units, that's the right deck. If you only play with poisoned dead like me, it's the wrong deck.

[minor lily]

What would you consider as "the right deck" or "the wrong deck"?

[livid mesa]

For me, the right deck is a lineup that can block certain units. For example, if the opponent has crawler or sword wrath, I take mage, or if the opponent has archidon, I take shield, or if the opponent has acid rain, I take area heal. In short, you build a deck according to the meta. The wrong deck is the one you buy randomly without a certain order and system.

[worn rampart]

I think the Toxic Dead should be reworked. As tanks, they deal too much bonus damage to other tanks, so their bonus damage should be reduced. Additionally, due to their slow speed, they are nearly impossible to retreat, making them quite inflexible. They should receive a buff to their attack range, possibly similar to that of Archidons. This would allow them to be effective ranged units without being overly powerful

[grizzled delta]

no slower unit require no skill no need a buff

u can just spam it

its gay

[livid mesa]

I don't think there is a problem with bonus damage. If flexibility and range are increased, health can be reduced. So he can attack and retreat at the same time.

[worn rampart]

Bro what are you saying, in this game everything has strategic value.. it's spam only if you're a bad player.

[worn rampart]

Ok what I meant is that to increase the range it should be nerfed on something else to not be too op. The toxic dead is a tank, lowering his health would not make sense

[livid mesa]

In addition, if these conditions are met, the population should be 3 instead of 5 in order to put a tank in the front row (it needs a tank because its health will decrease)

[livid mesa]

If you increase the movement speed along with the range, the health nerf is not a problem because now he can run away. But if we only increase the range, I don't think it needs any nerf because being slow is the biggest disadvantage in itself

[cerulean summit]

TDEAD HAVE BASE 360??

Base hp of 360????

[naive slate]

No, giant deads have them

[cerulean summit]

Oh

[naive slate]

-_-

[cerulean summit]

Rare sight

[worn rampart]

For sure the movement speed cannot be touched since the dead have this movement speed in the game

[naive slate]

Deads are meant to be slow, as I've said for the 3rd time

Pouncers being the only things that have different speed

[worn rampart]

Well you know there are those in the community who consider them too op, but the only good thing about them is the damage, otherwise they suck

[naive slate]

"The only good thing is the damage" 😭

[livid mesa]

I totally agree, everyone talks about how much poison damage you do to tanks but nobody talks about how slow it is and that's why you always have to defend, your range is short and you can't dodge sudden attacks. Again, the disadvantages are more than the advantages

[naive slate]

Once you attack, you should never go back

[livid mesa]

As I said before, the problem is not that it is slow. The problem is that it's both slow and has little range. It has nothing to compensate for its slowness. So there's no balance.

[naive slate]

???
It's range isn't even that short, you just repeated it by calling it slow and little range

[naive slate]

It's compensation for it is being tanky, having the heavy tag which makes it be able to use hhw (heavy healing wisp), and being a grinding machine for heavy units because of it's bonus damage, it has no problems dealing with light units too because it has poison and that poison will eventually kill the light units

It's not the only heavy that suffers from being too slow and little range

[livid mesa]

Because it is slower, it takes longer to cover even short distances. The two biggest problems are that it is already slow and has a short range.

[naive slate]

You're only covering it's bad parts, it doesn't need a buff since it's already good enough, it needs an entire rework

We also have tunnel for replenishing them quickly to the middle if you're defending

But to be fair no one uses the tunnel enchantment

[livid mesa]

The important point is to take the middle tower. If you don't get it early in the game you will probably lose. Also I don't know if the tunnel will help with that

[livid mesa]

Yes

[livid mesa]

Definitely needs strengthening

[naive slate]

Tunnel will help alot, it brings your newly trained unit to the middle right away, which saves alot of time if you're using deadspam since they're incredibly slow
Though it only works upon getting temple II which already takes too long
Also you probably won't lose automatically when the opponent gets middle unless they have the spell: projectile barrier, which is BARELY used in todays meta

[trim stone]

that well make toxic dead even scary for heavy units

[naive slate]

Speartons already struggle enough 😭

[livid mesa]

The bullet barrier is one of my must-have cards. I think there are better options instead of the tunnel

[naive slate]

Acid rain

Since you're using an all deads deck

Your spirit speartons also don't get affected much since they can pretty much tank the poison damage

[livid mesa]

In the current situation, tanks are terrible for them

[livid mesa]

Spirit Spearton?

[naive slate]

The speartons that come from the middle

This is your deck right?

Replace toxic totality, barrier or blazing bolts with acid rain

But not recommended since you might meet other deadspam..

Your problem is speed and range?
Just give them acid rain..

Sprite

[livid mesa]

I use a completely dead deck but I don't use acid rain because it's not useful enough and can be easily blocked by a meric , general meric or area heal. If you don't have any of those they can commute to base and back until you reach mid tower (yes tdead is very slow)

[naive slate]

The poison lasts till the spell ends, it also boosts the deads speed

Also have you seen any meric, thera and healing ward before at your rank-
It's genuinely rare for me to find these

[livid mesa]

I can't replace it with anything, especially a barrier, because then I would be really vulnerable. I can't replace it with toxic totality because it adds poison damage to all chaos units and tdead increases poison damage (useful for marrowkai fist) and I supplement the damage with fiery arrow.

[livid mesa]

I encounter a lot with space optimization

[naive slate]

You already have poison so why use toxic totality?
Also blazing bolts only gives a low dps boost lol (was it 2?)

Use this instead
Your deck is too vulnerable early game

[raven nymph]

First off
Too many tags for an idea that doesn't elaborate how to fix them
Two
T deads are fine currently
They shred tanks like they're made of paper
Ror doesn't need a buff trust me
Normal deads are enough

Also I don't think marrowkai should have poison in kit
Because marrowkai doesn't really have anything to do with poison
Medusa has more stuff to do with poison because she's a gorgon
Marrowkai is a skeleton wizard
Also having poison naturally on a general who can completely mess up your backline snipe and mess up your whole army with one ability is kinda unneeded

Marrowkai is in an ok position
No need for poison ability

[raven nymph]

Kinda weird
I used to see a lot of healing ward but it seems to have fallen out of usage for some reason
Haven't seen a lot of generals except kytchu too
Even atreyos is getting less usage
Maybe because the upgrade system kinda limited a lot of the generals' power by a bit

[minor lily]

Their HP, combined with their DPS output, a tdead stack is damn near unstoppable unless you use a pretty damn strong melee setup such as swordripp or swordjugg or jugg/spear spam with spells like PB and snow squall

And even for ranged decks, if they mess up once, they're just fcked

[grizzled delta]

Or u mean it's speed like in legacy version, I think it's quite good

[naive slate]

Hha wat-

[grizzled delta]

Jump like a madness

[naive slate]

I don't see much speed difference between tdeads from both legacy and saga

[grizzled delta]

I love how zombie madness and fast not slow and useless

[naive slate]

THEYRE STILL SLOW WYM 😭

[grizzled delta]

Bc u don't play it

Cried

[minor lily]

Tdeads in both swl and sw3 are slow as hell, in fact, some tdeads in swl are slower than in sw3

[naive slate]

[grizzled delta]

https://youtu.be/jAac1MtF8Do?si=sdsPvAZlUBAIV-0N

...

Just watch

[naive slate]

Wtf

That's pouncer deads

The video is also sped up 😭

[grizzled delta]

No it's not

[naive slate]

https://tenor.com/view/sad-emoji-sad-emoji-emoji-stare-disgust-gif-405076546600269050

[minor lily]

Yes it is

Miners don't walk that fast and Kai rider doesn't attack that fast

[static snow]

Honestly I don't think recommending that to someone who isn't already good at deadspam is a good idea.
The deck is deliberately very weak until it gets tower, and have very limited tools for getting to tower and you're supposed to compensate for that by knowing an unhealthy amount about deadspam techs and matchups.
It's very newbie unfriendly as a consequence of it's design.

Just give them a spellspam variant.

[naive slate]

I think I made a deck that fits his playstyle
He mentions poison, speed and range alot
This deck may be a hella mid but he's only 1300 (marrowkai could be replaced for something else)

[static snow]

It's gonna be hella mid once people aren't free to acid rain anymore so probably 1600s.

Marrowkai is fine if you're not planning to fight 2k players.

[static snow]

Blazing bolts for deadspam is basically a diet cw that also boost dmg for all your ranged units and have higher dps while in active combat than volt arrow. It's useful, is what I'm saying.

There's a very drastic difference in lethality between normal uc tdead and uc tdead with bb. Especially against light units.

[timber raptor]

ahh yes, the order empire has become more powerful lately

[livid mesa]

I'm deleting the game because I don't want to play against injustice anymore. This game is really starting to get on my nerves.
Toxic dead is not as powerful and tanky as you think, it doesn't kill tanks as fast as you think (faster than archidons, but it doesn't really matter). Poison damage is not as effective as you think, being slow and short ranged is not as trivial as you think.
The solution is to spawn the dead version of the unit it kills (I'm talking about improving the spell to spawn dead units that die by poison).poison dead general is a new chaos unit. damage, speed, range you already know these things.
Anyway, I'm deleting the game and wish patience and success to my friends who are playing. Hope to see you again when chaos is given the value it needs.

[minor lily]

Hmm, I think I could teach you how to actually use tdeads

[livid mesa]

Thank you, but I don't think it's necessary anymore. But I'd like to know what you think.

[worn rampart]

I understand your frustration but there are different methods to use Tdeads at their best. For me the developers should change the category of Tdeads, maybe making them light troops like the Shadowraths. I say this because it makes no sense for Tdeads to be tanks because they can't tank. As other ranged troops, they need protection from real tanks like Spearton or JuggerKnight, zombies are not enough for the later stages of a match

[raven nymph]

Deads are already light so in dead spam
If you make t deads light that would mean they still have dead speed but are squishier in favor of probably more attack range
That would mean normal deads would need a price increase and a health increase because they are now heavies

Oh the duality of light and heavy and how it limits some decks while barely affecting others

[static snow]

No amount of you telling me about sw3 would get me to not think that spearcher kytchu just have so much better raw stats than deadspam.

[worn rampart]

In fact, a duality that should not exist because it is useless. They should simply allow training two tails of any troop

[naive slate]

[minor lily]

No, OP

Especially with tdeads

[worn rampart]

Then they should handle this duality better, toxic deads are not tanks

[naive slate]

[minor lily]

They are tanks tho

[worn rampart]

The game could use better balancing, I personally find the deads quite weak due to the lack of a real tank

[minor lily]

Just not in the traditional sense

[worn rampart]

That's right, they shouldn't be, they are a cross between DPS and resistant troops, they have HP similar to Shadowraths

[naive slate]

You want a speardead? :3

[minor lily]

No, they should be, it's their purpose, but, as I said, not in the traditional sense

[worn rampart]

Dude, I don't even use Tdeads, but they're simply the most boring and weak deck in the game

[naive slate]

Most weak?

[minor lily]

Wdym, deadspam is NOT weak

[naive slate]

[minor lily]

For the effort deadspam takes, it is the strongest archetype

And you can improve on that power with better synergies within the deck, game/matchup knowledge, and overall skill

[worn rampart]

Their slowness makes them easy to counter even if they are in large numbers

[minor lily]

Yeah no

Every real GM has said that deadspam has the power of a GM deck with the effort of a low rank deck

And mikage, a deadspammer, reached top 7

[worn rampart]

Are there no effective strategies to counter them? If you reduce their numbers and play aggressively it might be possible, since deads are weak to arrows and are slow

[minor lily]

There are

And playing aggressively is unironically the counter to them even though they excel in defensive capabilities

Tho, it's not that easy to counter deadspam

[worn rampart]

Not even with a deck centered around Eclipsor?

[minor lily]

Especially good variations such as mikage deck or 84436 deadspam

[minor lily]

Eclipsors have more of a problem with deadspam

The best counter I've found against deadspam is, if you know that your enemy is running deadspam, ditch early game units, get only 1 eg unit for tower cap, and immediately switch to more expensive units such as tank units, generals, or eclipsors

Mainly tanks and an early general

If you don't get an early tank, you will be forced off of tower, and once deadspam gets a good hold on tower, they will likely not lose it

Unless you have a late-game counter to them ofc

[worn rampart]

Yes indeed it is the best strategy, however the Tdeads are effective against the tanks

[minor lily]

Yeah but 1-2 tdeads isn't enough DPS to force a tank off of tower before the enemy can get another tank to tower

[worn rampart]

I think this replay is enough to show the weaknesses of deads spam:
stickwar3://watchReplay?guid=d9f66103-02e3-fbe5-96f9-fa3333940000

I found it randomly among the community replays

[shy warren]

fuckk you

[static snow]

I'd argue spearcher kytchu but your only gameplan being 1 arrow to statue then camp base + volley spam is still stronger per effort taken.

[minor lily]

Real kytchu takes actual effort, pls don't include braindead volley spam in this

[static snow]

Very few decks in the meta can properly beat both. My variant is really good at punishing the 'camp base to build up' strat while his variant is really good at conventional back and forth combat at mid.

[minor lily]

Hmm

oka

I'll keep that in mind the next time I play deadspam

[static snow]

Deadspam is still kinda ass to play overall but it's also like dummy strong now.

If you try to only use decks that always beat deadspam you'd be bored to death with lack of deck variety.

[minor lily]

Heavily depends on the deadspam variation

For example, volt rippclipsor (without Tesla) can always beat deadspam unless the deadspammer has healing ward

[static snow]

Deadspam just bring mass heal or thera as a result.

[minor lily]

Ngl it's crazy how kytchu can out-late shadows

I played a match against a volley abuser

And my statue was fcked

While I couldn't even get to their statue cuz my spears were dying too fast but his weren't

I couldn't risk mass saccing my eco either since I didn't have enough resources to keep up for the rest of the match if I did sacrifice my miners

And after each attack, he re-attacked so I couldn't rely on tower bonuses for more eco

[static snow]

Statue volley + spearcher kytchu base camping might be a bit matchup dependent of a problem but when it is...

[static snow]

Can't even stop kytchu from coming in to arrow statue due to uc ignore?

[minor lily]

Ngl if my enemy attacked even once they would've lost

[minor lily]

Not because of that, I had to keep my army in garrison to reheal

[minor lily]

I had such good counterplay ready only for them to go back to their base 😭

[static snow]

If you don't have statue volley abuse in the list of things needing counterplay you're not really. Sw3 is straight up a kusoge, in that you need to develop counterplay to jank abuse or you'll get cooked.

[minor lily]

Every kytchu player I've fought actually committed to attacks

And I was so damn ready to be full attacked

I had the bomber delay trick set up on my shadows only for it to be useless

[static snow]

It's conventional kytchu play, and even some 2.4k would use conventional play rather than statue volley abuse even if they lose the match for it. It's probably an honor and fairness thing, some do it some don't.

[minor lily]

I've fought kytchu players that volley abused while still actually committing to attacks

[static snow]

If statue volley abuse gets patched out the ppl playing conventionally stays relevant while statue volley abuser gets fcked.

[static snow]

It's extra dmg for them basically. Still unfair but also less than 1 arrow to statue then spam volley from base.

[minor lily]

If kytchu decks in general get nerfed, the kytchu users playing conventionally would still stay in top 100 while volley abuser get wiped off the leaderboard

[minor lily]

Yeah

That's why I don't have a problem with statue volley, but rather statue volley being able to be used multiple times from a single shot

[static snow]

It's like ripp distracting full armies. Only relevant when the jank isn't patched out yet.

[static snow]

Single statue volley would be fair if we remove sudden death and have tower zap do lower dmg or only active from 15 mins or gets removed.

[minor lily]

Btw, probably a weird question, but would it count as "statue volley abuse" if I shoot an arrow at the enemy statue and fire a volley or two (for the entirety of the match) if I retreat from the enemy base?

[static snow]

Statue volley by itself tips the scale of statue damages in a way nothing else could, and tower zap + sudden death makes it go from annoying and maybe too privileged to actively unfair and ridiculous.
Would be abuse if you keep using that same arrow for volley again but otherwise it's just using statue volley.

[minor lily]

I'd rather use my kytchu for sniping or tank shredding than some statue volley that would likely end up being meaningless

[static snow]

Getting multiple volleys off the same arrow turns the risk-reward from 'kinda unfair' to 'overtly blatantly unfair'.

Honestly without both tower zap and sudden death it's not too hard to argue that statue volley (1 per arrow) is fair for a general ability. But that ignore how things currently works as they are.

[minor lily]

The statue doesn't even suffer that much damage from a single volley

[raven nymph]

Have y'all seen atreyos recently
Recently I haven't even seen kytchu that much
I used to see kytchu in 2v2 almost every match but now I don't see even a single general these days

I don't know
Asian server children like abusing double tesla hidden tunnel so much that maybe they don't bring generals anymore

[naive slate]

Rarely see atreyos ngl

[sterile granite]

Really? Sure I rarely play SWS nowadays but to the point of not bring Kytchu? Something is maliciously brewing.

[naive slate]

News report:
Kytchu becomes boring!

[sterile granite]

Make sense because if you play the same unit over and over again, it will be boring.

[minor lily]

Kytchu's still common, I got my ass kicked by one yesterday

[raven nymph]

Turtle
Vs
Porcupine breeder
Of course

[minor lily]

I was playing shadowspear rush

The main reason I lost is because my opponent didn't fcking attack but the strat I had set up required him to commit to an attack at my base

[sterile granite]

Inconsistent but it's SWS.

[grizzled delta]

Yes