New Miner plus a little something extra

[gentle saddle]

Extra enhancement
Comfy beds: garrison units heal more health and faster recovery times for generals.
Barracks lvl 1: +10L +20H general recovery -20%
Barracks lvl 2: +13L +24H general recovery -25%

You guys think this is good?

[robust river]

so a better Order Miner?

[gentle saddle]

Something like that

With a unique twist

[lean wraith]

What is the point of this

[gentle saddle]

They get gold a bit faster than the usual miner

[robust river]

nohing the order miner can excel at compared to this?

[lean wraith]

And still has the same tankiness + double the DPS

[robust river]

like, just a complete overshadow to ominers?

[gentle saddle]

Isn't that technically what eminers are too?

[robust river]

we cannot have cards that statistically outperform another card in all department

[robust river]

eminers are light and has lower health

[gentle saddle]

I can tone down the speed bt they aren't technically supposed to be better

[robust river]

an ominer will last longer than an eminer against an archidon or spearton

[lean wraith]

Who needs passive healing or anti-sniping when you have a miner that is better at getting resources, still has the same anti-sniping as ominers, AND has doubled DPS

[robust river]

they have no disadvantages compared to Ominers

[gentle saddle]

The fact that they only get 10 gold a hit and their speed ain't supposed to be THAT fast

[lean wraith]

Eminers have better long-term survivability, ominers have tanking capability

[lean wraith]

You still said that they get gold a bit faster

[robust river]

👍

[lean wraith]

Which means they can out-mine the 2 other miners despite gaining halved resources

[gentle saddle]

Hmm so like 🤔
They get gold at around the same speed as your normal miner but they only get 10 per swing but swing a little faster

If that helps

[robust river]

that doesn’t really do anything

no it doesnt

[gentle saddle]

Good

[robust river]

[gentle saddle]

Ok hang on are they supposed to be better or worse?

[lean wraith]

Even if the 2 other miners had the same resource gaining rate, this miner would still out-mine then since you could move them around faster since they wouldn't be restricted by the mining animation, while also being able to do better starts since sometimes, you might need only 5 gold to get an unit or an upgrade

[robust river]

neither

they have to be different

[gentle saddle]

The supposed to be the idea

[lean wraith]

Different, but equal

[robust river]

an Ominer and an Eminer isn’t directly better than each other, they just excel in dofferent things

do the same for this miner, if you can find any other gimmicks

[lean wraith]

Eminer is overall better than ominer tho

[robust river]

because again, we can’t just have a card technically better or worse than the other

[robust river]

excluding meta things

[clear shore]

I have NOT beens ummoned

No

\

This is a powercreep

[lean wraith]

But that could be fixed by just giving ominers a bit more HP so that their tankiness is more worth it in exchange for less long-term survivability

[clear shore]

My Arms are giving up

No

[gentle saddle]

So then how would you balance this 🤔

[robust river]

thats on you, because youd have to think of something that will differentiate the use of this miner compared to other miners

[gentle saddle]

Well I don't want to just copy paste

[lean wraith]

First, figure out what the main role of this specific miner is

[robust river]

an economy card?

jk

[lean wraith]

what kind of economy card

[gentle saddle]

I mean they are an economy unit soo

[robust river]

miner

but yeah anyway

[mighty nymph]

Just Ctrl V Ctrl C of miner

But a little bit better

[gentle saddle]

That's the point it's not supposed to be either

[robust river]

Eminers excel at not needing time to recover but sucks when under attack, Ominers excel at lasting longer when under attack but requires time or source to heal

[lean wraith]

little but better?

[lean wraith]

Then why the fck would you make this instead of buffing ominers?

[robust river]

maybe we don’t need another miner

[lean wraith]

If you want a better ominer, just make ominers better instead of leaving the original ominers in the trash can

[robust river]

we’ve yet to get Lavish and Chomplers

best you can do is a non-unit economy card

maybe a spell that summons miners or smth

[lean wraith]

I would summon haeret but he hasn't really been active in osw recently

Haeret knows how to balance miners

[rancid wind]

Great. Another unit that does the same thing as an already existing unit.

[robust river]

imo the two of us shouldn’t really be active at this point

[lean wraith]

But better, literally

[gentle saddle]

That's the point of he miner

[lean wraith]

Then it doesn't deserve to exist

[gentle saddle]

Why?

[lean wraith]

If you want better ominers, just buff ominers instead of making an unit that's better in literally every single way and leaving the original ominers in the trash can

[gentle saddle]

So what if I just lower the damage to say 3?

[robust river]

whats the point?

it would be just a weaker miner then

no point of bringing

[lean wraith]

Wouldn't matter much, ominers are used for tanking through attacks in early-mid game so you can have them continue mining instead of having to miner rush or garrison them

[lean wraith]

It still has a better resource gaining rate

[robust river]

oh right

so an economy focused miner

well its still as tanky as an Ominer, you wouldn’t need miners to attack anyway

[gentle saddle]

That's kinda what I'm getting confused about yall seem kinda back and fourth on is it op or does it suck completely

[robust river]

you are missing the point

what we are telling is it shouldn’t be about being op or up

its about what it offers that will be different compared to Ominers or Eminers

[lean wraith]

1. It's OP
2. It completely outclasses ominers, and not in a "it's overall better and more worth bringing" way, it's LITERALLY just a better ominer

[gentle saddle]

Well if that's the case then yes
Its not technically part of the Order faction if you look at the characteristics

[robust river]

balance wise

we can’t have this on multiplayer because otherwise it will make Ominers obsolete. if you suggest to reduce the damage, then this miner becomes obsolete compared to Ominers

[lean wraith]

It won't

Having lower damage doesn't really matter

[robust river]

i keep forgetting its economy focused

[gentle saddle]

I mean like there's allot I can do to it
I can reduce the health, decrease Mining speed, reduce movement speed

[lean wraith]

Having less damage will just make a miner rush with this pretty much only useful for extra meatshields, however, it's still as tanky as ominers and has better resource gain than ominers

[gentle saddle]

I just don't know whats good since I got so much back and fourth

[lean wraith]

You don't even know what this miner is meant for (other than usual miner stuff, of course)

[gentle saddle]

So just tank the respurce gain?

[lean wraith]

You can't make a balanced unit if you don't even know what role it's meant to take up

[gentle saddle]

No I do have other uses for it but none I'm stating rn

There's an entire faction behined the dude that I'm still working on

[robust river]

how about a unique passive of some sort

[lean wraith]

Why aren't you stating any of them then?

Literally the only use this miner has as of right now is just completely overshadowing ominers

[gentle saddle]

Cause I haven't fully refined the kinks
This felt like a half decent start to this so I sent it off to get feedback

[lean wraith]

So your idea was to post an unfinished unit that's literally just an existing unit but better in every way?

[robust river]

I guess what we should do is wait

[gentle saddle]

I like the idea but like... what tho

[gentle saddle]

To try an work out the basics so hes not better in every way yes

[robust river]

you decide doctor

[lean wraith]

This certainly isn't a good start

[gentle saddle]

Yeah cause I'm too busy trying to figure out if the crazy lad is OP or not
I've gotten yes I've gotten no and I've gotten its litterally just the same

I can't work with this

[lean wraith]

We already said that this guy completely overshadows ominers, which are just a little bit away from being balanced

I think that says enough about the state of balance on this unit

[robust river]

it is op

[gentle saddle]

But then you back it up and say he's bad

[robust river]

for me its bad in a way that its bland

[gentle saddle]

Ok then I'll work on trying to make him less good

[lean wraith]

He's bad because it's an existing, completely unoriginal unit that's better than what exists already

[robust river]

not bad as in underpowered

[gentle saddle]

He carries a backpack and chisel, mines faster and gains less gold per hit but at the same time not supposed to be better or worse than he base ominer or eminer
How is that not original?

[robust river]

bad as in conceptually

[robust river]

that doesn’t affect gameplay though, or balancing

thats the unoriginal part

[gentle saddle]

So should it?

[robust river]

or atleast barely

yes

[gentle saddle]

Why then

[robust river]

thats the point of having a new card

for new purposes

different uses

thats like adding a golden spearton with same cost and pop than regular speartons but with better hp, damage, and speed

[robust river]

like yknow if Golden speartons exist whats the point of ever using regular speartons

[gentle saddle]

K 🤔

I'll work on it and I'll ping you both when I got something

[lean wraith]

Since this miner seems to be focused more on speed, you could make his mining and movement speed faster than the 2 other miners in exchange for gaining less gold/mana per swing, having less resource capacity, and less beefiness

[gentle saddle]

That's what I was kinda thinking but that still sounds like a bit much

[robust river]

would benefit more to Miner Upgrade and Bastion than other miners

[robust river]

atleast there is a drawback to balance it out, yours has none

[gentle saddle]

Another issue here is miner hustle which was something I thought about

[lean wraith]

The faster mining speed but less resource gain should be overall less than the 2 miners slower mining speed but higher gain, but it'll be compensated by the faster movement speed

[gentle saddle]

True

[lean wraith]

Bastion is a % increase

[robust river]

miner hustle benefits all miners the same, because its a speed boost on all departments and is on percentage, no changes will make miner hustle provide more or less boost to a miner

[gentle saddle]

Alr

[lean wraith]

Same with bastion and miner upgrade mining boost

[robust river]

not really, a miner with faster movement speed benefits more to those

[gentle saddle]

Tbh halfing the bag size also makes sense cause they're wearing a backpack and not carrying a bag

[lean wraith]

Make bastion and miner upgrade increase movement speed too

[robust river]

[lean wraith]

Ngl both deserves that buff

They're too expensive

They're useful, but overall not worth the cost

[lone narwhal]

only buffs EMiners have is their tags

since they are considered chaos they basically have auto heal

also they are light so they are more convenient

[robust river]

personally I dont think it should be movement speed, yes it helps but like its just so generic

why not bag capacity or something

[robust river]

in terms of mining efficiency it serves nearly the same as movement speed

[gentle saddle]

Aight I'm halfing the bag size

[robust river]

i was talking to fan ideas guy

[lone narwhal]

just make eminer weaker but give them a passive where they get stronger the more they are while ominers are just normally better without buffs than eminers

eminer: better the more there are but weaker in stats
OMiner: just naturally better excluding with buffs

[robust river]

[lean wraith]

They basically already have that

[lone narwhal]

oh

I was thinking about a pack mentality

[lean wraith]

No

[lone narwhal]

while Ominers are just stat-wise way better

[robust river]

Mo

[lean wraith]

Leave eminers alone

[lone narwhal]

ok

[lean wraith]

Shut

[lone narwhal]

just make EMiners applicable to monstrosity

[lean wraith]

???

[robust river]

also Heavy Healing Wisp

[lone narwhal]

yeah

no

[lean wraith]

I just realized that you're cloud

[lone narwhal]

who's cloud

[robust river]

Robogta

[robust river]

im still laughing about it to this day

[lean wraith]

This is why I trust you with unit and boss ideas only

[lone narwhal]

my new unit and boss ideas suck

[robust river]

yeah you’re better off with balance changes

[lone narwhal]

I'm better at balance changes?

[robust river]

no

[lone narwhal]

“you're better off with balance changes”

[robust river]

Irony

[lone narwhal]

oh

[gentle saddle]

Its not letting me edit

[robust river]

restart discord

[lean wraith]

Restart discord

[robust river]

dont forget to copy your edit first

or youll have to do it again

[gentle saddle]

There we go

[robust river]

how much faster is the mining rate compared to regular miners? atleast in percentage

[gentle saddle]

I haven't been able to get an accurate speed at which the miners mine at but it's basically 3 taps on gold every seconds

[lean wraith]

TP to top

[gentle saddle]

Which would be 30 gold per sec

[robust river]

percentage doesnt need that

[lean wraith]

Okay wtf

[robust river]

its just how much faster it is compared to whatever the miner speed is

[lean wraith]

It just comes down to the same problem again

[gentle saddle]

No enough info on my part

Honestly I didn't exactly have much info to work off of when it came to speed values cause it was basically just "slow, average or fast"

So a miner takes 1.5 sec to swing their pic and get 25 gold out of each swing which makes it 6 seconds to get 100 gold
Every 3 swings for the Tminer takes 1 second which means it takes them ~0.3sec to swing their hammer and chisel so it would take them about 3.3s to get 100 yyyeeaahh that's definitely broken
It takes them +11 to make it back and forth from the nearest gold pile (Tminers speed is the same)

I'll delete this and post a revamp soon after I run the numbers properly instead of like a

[robust river]

you don’t need to run the numbers for getting percentage values

[gentle saddle]

Im also doing it to get a netter idea of just how fast they were

[open vigil]

Huh

[robust river]

Long time no see Haeret