Unit Idea: Cleaver

[warm lantern]

Grand Cleaver:

Chaos/Heavy

Gold: 450
Mana: 200
HP: 425
DMG: 25 (+12 L +cleave up to 3 units)
MSPD: Juggerknight
ATK SPD: Giant (club attack)
Pop: 6
Train Time: 25 seconds

Abilities:
Activated: Arcing Cleave (Deals 20 (+ 12 L) dmg to all units in an arc in front of this unit. Pierce cap of 5 units.)
Cool down: 15 seconds
Activated: Crushing Strike (Deals 50 (+20 H) DMG to a single target and inflicts stun.)
Cool down: 35 seconds

Link to Unit Library: https://discord.com/channels/555057405080371210/1217424319970283560

[lusty tendon]

grand caster reference?

hmmm

ok thats quite alot of health for 400/100

[warm lantern]

Wot?

[lusty tendon]

hes part of the council

[warm lantern]

400/100.
Same miner loads as a Juggerknight.

[lusty tendon]

ok this is uh

quite the damage dealer

first of all, it splashes up to 5 units with one attack?

[warm lantern]

Hold up... Yeah, should be 3 instead.

[lusty tendon]

this thing would destroy light units in 2-3 seconds

say goodbye to deadspam

id say its good

not too sure about the damage it deals

whats the CD of the abilities

[warm lantern]

Right. Forgot those. Again. Been a second since I posted here.

[lusty tendon]

its ok

its a good idea

also i think its better as a general

just because of its abilities and damage output

[warm lantern]

Fair. I usually get the concept before I refine it to what I want it to be.

[lusty tendon]

25s and 35s cds

hmm

reduce arcing cleave to 18-20s

and crushing strike can either stay 35 or reduced to 30

other than that its good

normal cleavers can just be grand cleavers but no abilities

[warm lantern]

K. I'll see what I can do with the DPS / abilities to make this a standard unit.

[lusty tendon]

ok

[warm lantern]

Because it's linked to the library.

[lusty tendon]

to make this a viable unit

[warm lantern]

Forgot pop.

[lusty tendon]

reduce the main dmg to 25

and extra dmg to light to 12

the arcing cleave is good, like that but reduce dmg to 20, and extra dmg to 12

in exchange, you can give it a shorter CD

[warm lantern]

Crushing Strike can take a hit to the DMG.

[lusty tendon]

the crushing strike should stay that way

so the grand cleaver has a way to deal with tanks easier

lemme get my other fan idea friends to revuew this

@dire lichen
@safe lantern
@robust tiger

they know more than i do

[warm lantern]

Mhm. Fan ideas guy helped me perfect some of my units in the past.

Unit Idea: Cleaver

[minor quarry]

Okay, i don't like the abilities

[warm lantern]

Why's that?

[minor quarry]

Crushing strike is like charge?

[warm lantern]

One unit only.

No pierce or AoE.

[minor quarry]

And...?

Is just juggerknight charge

But from SE!!!!1!1!

[warm lantern]

Okay?

If that's your sole complaint, this argument is done.

I won't argue any further.

[minor quarry]

Well uh...

This attack even slower than a juggerknight

And that sounds very BAD for early game

[warm lantern]

It's not an early game unit. It's a crowd control unit with some anti-heavy usage.

[minor quarry]

Is a giant...

Is still a tank

If you would use it will be your main tank in the deck

[warm lantern]

Is not a giant. 475 HP without block isn't tank material. It's average unit size.

[minor quarry]

Arcing Cleave has infinite AOE or something?

[minor quarry]

... Do you want to use this and for example a spearton in the same deck?

[warm lantern]

Idk. You do you if you want to.

I just make things.

[minor quarry]

If isn't a tank, why i would use it?

[warm lantern]

DPS and crowd control.

[minor quarry]

i think... Bombers and both giants can do that

[warm lantern]

Not reliably, or vs light.

[minor quarry]

@warm lantern

[warm lantern]

Oh, right. If a unit is caught in the arc, it'll take the damage. Maybe adding a max pierce of 7 or 10.

[minor quarry]

That's a lot

3 or 4 max

[warm lantern]

That just reduces it to its base attack with a special animation.

[minor quarry]

Uh oh

It looks like a bad ability for a unit!

[warm lantern]

And that's why I was setting such a high pierce cap.

[minor quarry]

And that's OP

Marrowkai has infinite AOE with hellfist but it has a long coldown

and not a big damage

Spearos has infinite AOE too but it does little damage

[warm lantern]

Both abilities mentioned also inflict status effects.

[minor quarry]

Stun and freeze, yeah?

They are more expensive than this unit

And you can only have 1

Cause both are generals

[warm lantern]

Limited by weapon range, and isn't effective against mass heavy units.

[minor quarry]

Let's see... if i have 5 of this unit it would be 6,66 dps against heavy units

And for example i am playing against 5 speartons...

33,33 dps!

And with the basic attack

And the copycat charge

That's lots of damage

[warm lantern]

As I've clarified. Multiple times. This is. A DPS unit.

[minor quarry]

It has too much health

And should be light

Like shadowrath

Shadowrath is a DPS unit

[warm lantern]

Light would make it op.

As it would be affected by Rage.

[minor quarry]

Balance it

Cause this rn won't work

[warm lantern]

I used the heavy tag for balance.

1. This unit will take extra damage from ripps, cgiants, and tdeads.
2. This unit will not be affected by Rage.

MSPD leaves it vulnerable in a similar fashion to juggs when retreating.

[minor quarry]

25% more attack speed for 5 seconds

How strong!

Rage isn't that good

[warm lantern]

considering the fact that this unit has giants' attack speed, that takes a good portion of the attack off.

[minor quarry]

Eh... I don't think this can work

Me don't like

[warm lantern]

Good job. You have an opinion.

Now let me go to sleep, you can bother me more in about eight or nine hours if it bothers you that much.

[warm lantern]

Tp to top:

[safe lantern]

what is with the word grand in this month’s fan ideas

I think that word does not fit the theme of stick war unless we are talking about extremely lore related stuff

[robust tiger]

the councul has been summoned

sheesh this is just better jugger i think

well hm

[minor quarry]

Better giant*

[robust tiger]

WTF

i do like high dmg

but like T deads are peak high single target ranged tanks

this is broken

(even though Tdead needs buff)

[warm lantern]

Fine... Suggestions then? Haeret over here says to remove Arcing Cleave.

[robust tiger]

christ arching cleave is aoe too

like all units infront>

?

ok this is just

Egiant

but...

but cheap

[minor quarry]

Basically marrowkai hell fist

[minor quarry]

@robust tiger

[robust tiger]

SHEESH

[warm lantern]

Geez, I get it. How about you suggest something instead of just rip into it? It's been a while.

[robust tiger]

ok so better E giant

eh

well

Id change cleave to smth else

also tone down the dmg or slow it down alot

I see this as a better Tdead without posion

[minor quarry]

Well uh... Maybe better ripprider

[warm lantern]

I don't know much things slower on ATK SPD than corpse giant...

[robust tiger]

I think both abilities are broken but all so intresting

[robust tiger]

just make it like 4.5 second att ack speed although i think thast too much

[warm lantern]

I admit, the DMG is a bit... Over the top.

[minor quarry]

Nerf damage and buff attack speed

[safe lantern]

im currently high, but as far as i can understand(which is currently not far) this does not offer anything unique

but yeah, high damage

[minor quarry]

High?

[safe lantern]

not thinking straight

[minor quarry]

So you are thinking gay?

[robust tiger]

i do like a high dmg ranged unit

[safe lantern]

[minor quarry]

|| ||

[warm lantern]

Not quite ranged. Reached is a better word.

[robust tiger]

and i think Tdead has its own neiche that this woukld cover

[safe lantern]

this is a ranged unit?

[robust tiger]

oh

ohh i though it was ranged

because of its ranhged ability

this is basicly a general tho

[warm lantern]

Where ranged ability?

[robust tiger]

arcing cleave

or is that not ranged?

[safe lantern]

this is basically a melee unit with large attack range like pike and Cgiants

[robust tiger]

oh

ok intresting

this is general material tho

like this is deffinately a general

i feel

[warm lantern]

Alright, how do I bring it down to non-general material, then?

[robust tiger]

well just so much dmg

and its just has so much everything

[safe lantern]

personally i don’t see a reason for this to be added, it sits to near to juggs and cgiants

[warm lantern]

I get that. I'll adjust that, if you'll just give me suggestions.

[robust tiger]

i like the high dmg

but for its price

[warm lantern]

I'm not asking for it to be added. I just made this because why not.

[robust tiger]

its an easy pub stomp

[warm lantern]

Fair, fair. Guessing it needs a cost nerf?

[robust tiger]

ok well

[safe lantern]

i think so

[robust tiger]

its not like a gaint

its mellee too

this is intresting

[safe lantern]

100 crystal for having good abilities is quite strong

[warm lantern]

150/200 crystal sound better?

[robust tiger]

oh yeah having 2 active abilites is alot

[minor quarry]

Did you nerf the HP?

[safe lantern]

400 gold with high damage is also strong

[robust tiger]

2 active abilities is magical unit / general type unit

[warm lantern]

Yes, to 425.

[minor quarry]

🤔

[stiff crypt]

Is this just a Juggerknight but more lethal

[minor quarry]

So isn't a good tank anymore

[safe lantern]

less defensive juggs

[warm lantern]

DPS. Not tank.

[minor quarry]

❓

[warm lantern]

This unit exists. For DPS. Not tanking.

[safe lantern]

you know what, adding training time might help balancing this unit

[warm lantern]

Right. New skill to learn. Yaaaay...

[safe lantern]

it could work as a tank if it has pretty fast training speed

[robust tiger]

i do like the idea of a dps mellee only sword wraths rn cover that role

[minor quarry]

Make it 35 sec.

!!!

[safe lantern]

too harsh

20-30s

[minor quarry]

Melee dps:
Shadowrath
Swordwrath
Giant
Zarek

[safe lantern]

juggs?

deads, crawlers

[robust tiger]

if forgot abt all of them

[minor quarry]

LOL

[robust tiger]

tho giants are not dps

[minor quarry]

Yes they are

[safe lantern]

yes they are

[warm lantern]

Shock units

[robust tiger]

zarek is also not a frontliner dps

[minor quarry]

WHAT IS THEN?

[robust tiger]

zarek... is just bad

[safe lantern]

a giant can potentially surpass zarek with DPS if it has monstrosity lvl 4 and hitting 4 heavy units

[robust tiger]

and needs to be buffed

[minor quarry]

75 damage and maybe some splash

[warm lantern]

Giants: easily countered
Swordwrath: only viable early game

[minor quarry]

[safe lantern]

zarek is not a frontliner

having high hp and melee doesn’t always mean frontliner

[robust tiger]

shadows are good but their super neiche

[safe lantern]

Marrowkai for example

[warm lantern]

Deads/crawlers: only viable early game or en masse.

[minor quarry]

Giants are actually only good in killing heavy units (without monstrosity)

[safe lantern]

summoned and spirit deads:

[minor quarry]

So their power is just dps

[warm lantern]

Finally.

[robust tiger]

only shadow and sword are imo true dps front liners

Jugg maybe?

[minor quarry]

Shadowripp

[safe lantern]

CRAWLERS

[robust tiger]

ripp is distraction

[warm lantern]

Jugg shock.

[robust tiger]

what is 'shock'

[minor quarry]

Giants giants! Is their only work

[robust tiger]

frontliners not dps

[warm lantern]

Shock is there to cause utter chaos in enemy ranks.

[robust tiger]

well i mean in sw ranks dont realy matter

unless your talking ranges units

which is what juggs exell at targeting

[minor quarry]

Wait so... Giants aren't frontlines units?

[robust tiger]

but bc jugg charges are stoped by heavy

[warm lantern]

Frontline? Yes. DPS? No.

[robust tiger]

front line not dps

[minor quarry]

60 damage with 3 AOE as i remember

[robust tiger]

Cgiants are both front liner and assasin lol

[safe lantern]

Assassin?

[minor quarry]

Cgiants not that good in killing backlines

[robust tiger]

yes they are

[minor quarry]

They just good against frontlines

Is their work

[robust tiger]

Tdeads and magikill

easy work for giants

[minor quarry]

Magikill can kite

[safe lantern]

your enemy must be an idiot if you can make your giants assassin against them

[robust tiger]

lol UC ignore

is such an annoting thng

anyway this unit

its DPS for sure

[minor quarry]

It only happens against turtle...

[robust tiger]

maybe dmg support?

this unit could be like a glass cannon

[minor quarry]

Against for example giantclipsor, you don't want the AI to attack your eclipsors so you won't uc a giant

[robust tiger]

hmmm

[safe lantern]

this unit is melee, plus i don’t think a glass cannon is a trait of chaos

[minor quarry]

I use giants without monstrosity in ranked

[robust tiger]

real

i stil need to unlock giants

[minor quarry]

[robust tiger]

ive just been grinding elo not progression 😦

spearmagi is a good combo ok?

be quiet

[minor quarry]

Dek:

[robust tiger]

wrong place

#stick-war-saga

[minor quarry]

that's why i put the spoiler...

[warm lantern]

Chaos isn't really a singular constant. But overall, I've noticed the Chaos abilities and such lean closer to DPS than tanking or survivability.

[minor quarry]

[minor quarry]

Crawlers?

[robust tiger]

bombers

[minor quarry]

Or uh... Yeah bombers

[safe lantern]

their HP and auto heal are often high enough to compensate

[robust tiger]

so i think chaos'es only glasscannons arent sustainable

i think a sustainable long term chaos glass cannon

is a good idea

medium HP high dmg

[safe lantern]

how about the costs

[warm lantern]

Right, gotta adjust that.

[minor quarry]

Well uh... Eclipsors aren't fragile but they should

WHY THEY ARE SO DAMN TANKY

[safe lantern]

they are pricey

[minor quarry]

😭

I CAN DO CYCLING IN LATE GAME WITH THAT THING

I GOT 0 ECLIPSORS DEATHS

[warm lantern]

Better?

[safe lantern]

which does not matter if the eclipsor user gets a solid economy, which is one of the main problem of the game thanks to center tower, eco difference

[robust tiger]

cycling is so funn

almost as much as back pedaling archidons

[warm lantern]

Tp to top (again)

[minor quarry]

Cycling should be tdead thing...

[robust tiger]

cycling is a tank thing

[minor quarry]

i can do it with eclipsors

That's why archis is so bad against eclipsors

Cycling

[safe lantern]

I do it with magics and generals

[minor quarry]

Wait this isn't about a tank/dps unit with infinite AOE?

It now have 5 AOE