Unit Balance Changes

[drifting jackal]

I need other opinions on these changes
Only a few units. I don't see much reason in changing the others.

Crawler
-Cost from 50g to 75g
-Health from 35 to 40
-Damage from 4 to 5
-Increase 1 damage for each lane of Crawlers(6). No limit

Sicklewrath
-Health from 55 to 60
-Damage from 5 (+2 light) to 5 (+3 light)
-Movement and Attack speed increased by 10%

Spearton
-Block now acts as a mode like Egiant's catapult mode. Block mode reduces 40% ranged damage and 30% melee damage

Spear AI will no longer be able to use block
Spears can no longer move and attack when blocking
Spears cannot be stunned out of block mode, but can get knock backed

Juggerknight
-Health from 500 to 550
-Charge now does 16 dmg (+7 heavy)
-Juggs get 1 damage reduction, but unlike the current spear, it will always be active

Riprider
-20% splash to 30% splash
-Training Time from 25s to 26s

Toxic Dead
-Heals instead of taking damage from poison effect
-Health from 225 to 200
-Training Time from 15s to 13s
-Statue damage from 4 to 5

Meric
-Passive heal of 5hp every 10s
-Meric AI can now use heal while retreating
-Shield now lasts for 6.5 seconds, but shield will have 75 health. Range of healing reduced by 50% while shield is active. Tesla Coil and Thunderstorm no longer triggers the shield.

[forest plank]

Crawlers would need a cost nerf if that buff happens

Sicklewrath buff might be too much

Speartons casually tanking 21 egiant boulders and still being alive after this change:

For tdeads to have 7 damage against the statue, they need to have 14 base damage

Also why make tdeads less tanky?

I don't know about ripps, I don't use them

[drifting jackal]

By cost nerf do you mean increase or decrease cost

[forest plank]

increase cost

[drifting jackal]

Good.

[forest plank]

Idk about meric shield change, but a passive heal and being able to heal while retreating would be good

[drifting jackal]

75g good? Kinda awkward to change it to 60g

[forest plank]

Yeah

[drifting jackal]

It's a cost to pay for reducing training time

Instead of making it a light unit, I thought reducing training time might be better. But 10s was too broken so I went with 13s.

[forest plank]

👍

[frosty drift]

With this change speartons should follow up Juggerknights, increasing their damage, or hp. It's just that then spearton will be stupidly better than jugg. I don't accept excuses, I won't answer anything

[drifting jackal]

I don't see how a simple block rework makes them stupidly op compared to juggs

[wind kernel]

hell nah

no riprider buff

also keep meric shield same

[drifting jackal]

Only rip buff is the extra splash. Tried covering it with slightly longer training time since they needed damage buff anyways.

[wind kernel]

do you have any idea how strong current rips are?

[drifting jackal]

As tanks

Good dmg against heavy

[wind kernel]

they have 23 dps againist heavy

12 dps againist light

lot better than spears and juggs

(max target potantial)

[drifting jackal]

So splash buff is a ney, what about the damage rework?

[upper swan]

Buff sword wrath:]

[wind kernel]

nerf their cost and hitbox

[forest plank]

They have 6.5 DPS against light and 10 DPS against heavy

[wind kernel]

dont buff em

[wind kernel]

u sure?

they hit every 2 second

20 damage to heavy

10x3 heavy

[forest plank]

What?

[wind kernel]

50%2=25

[wind kernel]

they have 25 dps againist heavy lol

[forest plank]

They have a 2 seconds attack speed and their damage is 13(+7H)

[wind kernel]

they have damn splash

[forest plank]

So 6.5/10 DPS

[forest plank]

No way that splash adds up to an extra 12/20 DPS

[wind kernel]

yes

it add

it hit 3 more unit

10x3=30

[forest plank]

How does it add up to that?

[wind kernel]

50/2=25

they have nice dps

for their cost

and pop

but they die fast

they need nerf ig

[forest plank]

10.4 DPS

[wind kernel]

11

[forest plank]

If splash damage is rounded up, then 11

Yeah

[wind kernel]

still better than juggs

and speartons

[echo plover]

Juggs are suffering

[wind kernel]

but rips have worse pop/dps/hp

and rips die easy

[forest plank]

Against heavies ripps have 16 DPS

[wind kernel]

25

[forest plank]

16

[wind kernel]

20+3x10/2=25

[forest plank]

20% of 20 is 4

[wind kernel]

thats not how splash work

[wind kernel]

splash deal 3 damage and+7 heavy

sw3 damage system weird

[forest plank]

Wacky splash damage

[wind kernel]

it's not work like 20%20

it work like 13%20+7

[forest plank]

So it's 20%13 + 7?

[wind kernel]

yes

thatsthats how sickles deal 4 aoe damage

per hit

[forest plank]

I'm sorry, wtf is this?

But that's their max DPS

Their base DPS is 6.5/10

[wind kernel]

they have very bad dps at single target

not worth to pop

even on full dps

pop dps/hp not worth

but their hitbox good

you can run invincible shadows and swords

and archers

[forest plank]

People call ripps tanks, but imo they're more of meatshields than actual tanks

[wind kernel]

thats their difference beetween spears and juggs

[forest plank]

Their HP to cost isn't that bad, but their HP per pop is only 75 (for reference, spears is 90 and juggs is 83.33)

[wind kernel]

spears have block to

[forest plank]

But they make up for their low HP by being unreasonably large

[wind kernel]

their hitbox very usefull

I cant kill enemy shadows with volley

because riprider

[forest plank]

And they also run around like annoying pieces of sht

[wind kernel]

actualy thats debuff

you cant distrach magikills

and it give you time to kill backlines

like when I get a good time I use volley for past rips

[forest plank]

Against ranged units, them running around is good (when paired with melee damage dealers)

[wind kernel]

no

just kitin bro

[forest plank]

What does kiting have to do with this?

[wind kernel]

slow rips

and gain time for army

you can sacriface 1 archer

for make rips delay 5 secnod

they go opposite side for handle 1 archer

which give you time

[forest plank]

If they're constantly blocking the ranged units from firing at other melee units, then it's good

[wind kernel]

and extra kitin

[drifting jackal]

I actually remembered why I buffed them in this post

[wind kernel]

their movement just debuff

[wind kernel]

they need cost and hitbox nerf

not buff

[forest plank]

???

[wind kernel]

if they dont move they can tnak every damage

and stop backline sniping

think your rip siting inside of archers

[drifting jackal]

It's the Riptors. If Riptors get added riders would serve no purpose since ripts are cheaper and are too similar.

[wind kernel]

and you cant kill archers with spearos

[forest plank]

That's not movement speed

[drifting jackal]

So riders would do the damage and Riptors would be used more like tanks

[wind kernel]

riptors have 550 hp 2x faster attack speed no aoe 550 gold cost and 15 damage

[drifting jackal]

20dmg actually

[wind kernel]

thx to hackers

[forest plank]

Don't they have the same damage as rippriders but without splash?

[drifting jackal]

At some point they're gonna nerf that 20dmg

[wind kernel]

idk I saw they deal 15

[drifting jackal]

So they'll be mindless tanks

[wind kernel]

I dont think riptors in normal game

[drifting jackal]

I'm planning incase they do get added

Riders would still be the menacing anti heavy tank that we know

[forest plank]

Funny how offensive units are being used defensively
Rippriders are fast and are AOE tank killers but they're used to tank for light melee units
Magikill are offensive spellcasters but they're used to summon minions for meatshielding

[drifting jackal]

While Riptors would just be the lesser version, but cheaper and used more as tanks

[wind kernel]

actualy devs tryed make em anti heavy

and light unit

they were to op

[forest plank]

So anti-horde?

[wind kernel]

60 dps at max if I'm right

[forest plank]

HUH?!?

[wind kernel]

and 35 againist light at max

[wind kernel]

they hit 2 times instead of 1 times

in 2 second

350 hp

[forest plank]

So a very fast attack speed

[wind kernel]

yes

insane damage

so they made it new kind of tank

[forest plank]

Actually

[wind kernel]

I think if riptors gona get added they will dps

instead of ripriders

[forest plank]

What if ripps have that insane damage they used to have BUT less HP and smaller hitbox?

[wind kernel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfXNL8M_QuYah

[upper swan]

That just seems annoying

[wind kernel]

than shadows dont have a job

they stole job of shadows when they realesed

[low schooner]

Buff juggs too if you'd buff spears

you kinda overbuffed rips

all meric needs is heal buff

Crawler has no damage stack limit so they would be meta if the enemy doesn't have a crowd control card

[wind kernel]

merics balanced tbh

[wind kernel]

juggs balanced already

[wind kernel]

I agree

[wind kernel]

yea

[forest plank]

Ripps seem underpowered in this video tbh

[wind kernel]

this is not broken rips

this is first realese

they had bad ai

and they hit 1 time

instead of 2

[frosty drift]

Its simple, juggs will not be needed if there is such a powerful tank as the spearton. Its not rework, its an up

[echo plover]

Juggs need a attack speed buff and a damage reduce when charging

[forest plank]

30% less damage is not a joke

Even that 3 flat damage reduction makes them tankier than juggs despite having 50 less HP

The more I think about the tankiness difference between spears and juggs, the more I think that juggs need more tankiness

[drifting jackal]

Reduced. I wanted the block to be more like the SE one, but ig I should reduce the attack speed when blocking?

[forest plank]

Or just straight up copy shieldwall from SE

% block while still being able to attack and move seems pointless to try to balance

[drifting jackal]

Yeah, I'm looking at the proof rn. But I atleast tried to balance it

K now done

[low schooner]

Bring back sw2 crawlers

[dry rain]

Why a riprider buff?

AND BEFORE YOU SAY "BuT i mAdE tHeM TaKe 1 mOrE SeCoNd tO tRaIn" that ain't sh-t

[drifting jackal]

I'm thinking long term. In a future where Riptors get released, Ripriders would be worthless. So similar to spears and juggs, I want riders to be the heavy splashing tank destroyer and the rips be weaker but cheaper and used as tanks.

[lusty oak]

i feel like speartons should still be able to move while blocking

just decrease the resistances

[dry rain]

Also: I am the balance man

[lusty oak]

especially since you made the spear ai unable to use it

they kinda just...

become order juggerknights without charge

[drifting jackal]

Oh yeah, what you think about sickle buff?

[dry rain]

Useless

I mean, it is a buff

But so useless

10% faster attack speed ain't that much better

[drifting jackal]

Not being able to move is a small price to pay for being able to block that much dmg

Think of shield wall from SE

[dry rain]

The only great thing is the faster movement speed catching greedy early archidon starters

[drifting jackal]

Not too op, not too useless now.

I feel 60 health still low

But that's the best thing we can get, unless we increase the cost

[drifting jackal]

Hold on lemme just-

[drifting jackal]

First off, a tp to top

Shit- wrong guy

Sorry for ping

@dry rain made a few tweaks to sickle changes

[wind kernel]

you are worst balancer in this chat

[wind kernel]

your old sicklewrath was good

why you changed

[frosty drift]

Stop doing this, you're annoying me. What's the 25% stun reduction? Is this when juggs will still get off the Charge, but will get up 25% faster? Are you kidding me? And what's the 14 + 7H damage, you added it for laughs? We need up to 20(or 17 + 3H) damage, or + 50 hp, or 1 damage reduction(like speartons shield) for juggs, WITHOUT increasing their value.

And what did you do with the speartons? Did you know that the SW3 is based on a phone controlers, not a keyboard & mouse like the SE?

[shadow pagoda]

Wot tf going on

[dry rain]

You just want to nerf or buff things that gms want. Even with this sh-tty op metas before and alt accounts, there is only around 1000 gms. We CAN NOT balance to what just they want. And it aint like you are a good balancer. You do not post sh-t, and say that I am the worst?

[dry rain]

I can not deal with these no pfps gms anymore

They all talk like yasin, and are disrespectful.

[restive sparrow]

I agree thats really true
The same can be said for jugs as well if you are running melee generals like xipho and zarek but for shadow wraft ist much Better bring riprieders becouse of the Speed and the more large hitbox

[drifting jackal]

Yeah, stun reduc when charging is when they get out of the charge. Like when swords and magiks stun them. The damage is for the charge. Was afraid that going too high would make them too op. And the spear change was meant to make them better defense units, like in SE. Tried tweaking their block reduct first but then again it was just pointless.

[heavy saddle]

Good Question.

[drifting jackal]

I also want an answer to that.

[heavy saddle]

Things I have noticed with many arguments is that they just agree and disagree to something based on whatever likeness they have, there are multiple ways to balance things that are all correct, its just a matter of how would you like the balance to look like, balancing could be based by complexity, direct counterpicks, roles, Playstyle dependency, etc. if you go by complexity it would balance GM but would leave lower ranks in mess, direct counterpicks will also work but would leave certain scenarios unfair because of decks, roles could be the safest but could also be boring, Playstyle dependency would make some players complain on “why is my favourite card only used for this”. Whenever I comment things about balancing I ride their way of balancing stuff but also suggest my own thoughts to open several options or opinions to choose from for balance changes or increase the value of a new fan concept. but then I get here and all I see is no because this and that and then it gets into insulting the other and GG we achieved nothing and pissed each other off.

[drifting jackal]

Not even pissed off by that tbh, I've seen worse, so we're fine

But yeah, thanks for that

Out of all posts, mine gets arguments where people don't even try to work with eachother on the same topic

[heavy saddle]

the devs for example aims the game to both be as simple as possible but also playstyle dependent, then they also use deck system and look what we got, a very unbalanced game if based on competitive balance

[frosty drift]

Okay, so you want the player to make a couple of speartons in defense, and the rest without a shield at all? Because in defense, these speartons don't deal damage and move. I don't like this change speartons, after all SW3 is a mobile game.

But I wasn't kidding about improving the survivability of juggs. They need either 550 hp or 500 hp and 1 damage reduction

[drifting jackal]

Reduction?

Like the reduction is always active?

[frosty drift]

Wdym

[drifting jackal]

I want it to be more strategic. Imagine how much we can do with a defense mode.

[frosty drift]

Yes, permanent 1 damage reduction

[frosty drift]

Maybe you are right

[drifting jackal]

So it's better tanking for juggs?

I thought they were lacking the heavy part...

[frosty drift]

Yes, 1 damage reduction or +50hp without increasing their value

[drifting jackal]

+50 health is fair actually now that I think of it

Makes them last longer

[frosty drift]

Yes

[drifting jackal]

Since every unit in this game is kinda fragile

[frosty drift]

Tp to top

[drifting jackal]

Done

Appreciate the collaboration from other people so far

[frosty drift]

Good decision

[frosty drift]

I generally agree with the rest, except that sicklewrath has standardized movement speed, so you probably shouldn't improve it

[drifting jackal]

If the health buff is enough to solve the problem of them being too fragile to do any damage, then I'll change it

I still haven't gotten any opinions on it

[frosty drift]

In general, I thought that it would be ideal to make a rework of sicklewrath, to make them more expensive, but more tanky

Give them a "tribe" shield

[drifting jackal]

I had that in the past, but then I realized it was too much like SE crawler.

Oh, the sickletons

[frosty drift]

U think?

Right now, the crawlers themselves are quite different from their SE selves

[drifting jackal]

I had an idea like that in the past, but I can't find the image

[drifting jackal]

Because in SE, they were the only early game unit chaos had. In sw3 they're free to be fast fragile swarm units.

Which a lot don't like

[frosty drift]

I like your crawlers upgrade, although it's a pity that they won't cost 50 gold, but what we can do, they need a hp and damage buff, you can't do it without increasing the cost

[drifting jackal]

The sw3 crawler cost went from 100 to 50, the health became too fragile, the speed is doubled, and pack mentality was gone

I tried to be as close as I can, while thinking of something the devs would accept, despite knowing they never add fan ideas

[frosty drift]

I like their current role in SW3, I don't think we need a second Swordwrath

[drifting jackal]

Exactly

That's what the devs aim to achieve

I can't just say "bring back SE crawler"

[frosty drift]

Pack mentality will be added soon

[drifting jackal]

That's atleast something to look forward to

[frosty drift]

Why do you need SE crawler? Do you really need it when you have Swordwrath?

[drifting jackal]

Taking the words out of my mind

So the thing at the top is the closest thing

[frosty drift]

This would make sense if we couldn't take units from different factions in the game

[drifting jackal]

But, deck building makes it so we can have things like juggcher and spearclipsor. Can't say I hate the system rn though.

[frosty drift]

I didn't say I hated this deck system. But in general, to be honest, I would like the game to have a separate 1vs1 ranked mode, in which you could only use units from one faction

[drifting jackal]

Like "factions" or something. They don't have to replace the system, it'll just another fun gamemode.

[low schooner]

why are there "cool" reactions

this is a balance type of post

[low schooner]

no

speartons shouldn't have the same hp as juggs

juggs have 6 pop

and ya know.. hp to pop ratio

[drifting jackal]

The health is for juggs

[frosty drift]

Its for juggs, u know

[low schooner]

oh

this convo is so mixed up

but still

+50hp for jugg is no no

[frosty drift]

They need more survivability

[low schooner]

nah

they're super close to balanced

[frosty drift]

In general, I suggest a constant 1 damage reduction for juggs, it would be good

[low schooner]

wdym?

constant 1 damage reduction?

[drifting jackal]

What's missing?

[low schooner]

charge delay

tbh

[frosty drift]

I feel like everyone has figured out that speartons just tank better and juggs need a little survivability buff

[frosty drift]

1 damage reduction, like a Spearton's shield ability

[low schooner]

honestly I prefer to remove Jugg's multi-hit to light units with charge, but if we are to do that then we need to buff damage and knockback of jugg charge.

[frosty drift]

Crarge delay won't change anything, they're mathematically weaker

[low schooner]

so like, passive block?

[dull breach]

I mean the jugg kinda die very fast, especially facing with archer spamming

[frosty drift]

Yes

[low schooner]

everything gets melted by archers

[frosty drift]

Except speartons

[low schooner]

okay, that's a good idea

[frosty drift]

Thanks

[unborn pumice]

Who is yasin?

[drifting jackal]

Be glad you do not know

[dull breach]

Yeah... I have to use meteor to counter archer

[unborn pumice]

Is that bad?

[low schooner]

who is he 💀

[unborn pumice]

😰

[low schooner]

I haven't been grinding gems lately

too lazy

plus I already have 12K gems

[unborn pumice]

Wait yasin is jenny? I think i play against it

[frosty drift]

I have 4k gems, im the LAZIEST

[dull breach]

I'm too poor bro only 312

[low schooner]

keep grinding 👍

[drifting jackal]

The kind of guy that can say "merics op" and proves it

[unborn pumice]

@drifting jackal yasin is linh?

🤔

[drifting jackal]

Ask em yourself

[unborn pumice]

Uh

I think also is "massi"

[wind kernel]

fun fact healty game for high ranks mean healty game for everybody

if gms cant abuse anything and play withpure skill

this will force low elos improve their skills

instead of archer spam

and dumb decks

look to clash royale

even some cards a bit broken

you can win without em

or not every deck work

you need make sure all cards connected

you just trying make game balance fit to you

im sure you are 1700 elo guy or somone who abused turtle or tesla for reach gms

[dry rain]

No, because there is OP stuff that gms will never talk about or face against because they do not have to worry about it/people that use it suck. For example, Spiritions. You almost never see it in higher ranks because their is better things for the slots, but this upgrade is crazy strong in lower ranks (not midladder) due to people in those ranks not learning anything to get back tower (like UC). So in this case, this is the Megaknight of SW3. Also, your example of Clash royale is stupid asf. That is like saying pre nerf egiant is fine because it does not hard counter certain decks that do not have it. Look at that! You are the sh-t balancer now! Because you think that broken cards are fine due to you being able to win against them without using them!

AND ONCE AGAIN: THE FIFTH TIME I AM SAYING THIS! I am a gm just because I can bully the ever living f-ck out of old turtle before the tower bonuses and I use a deck that helps my lower AvA skill!

[dry rain]

Yes

He does not like being called that, but I do not give a sh-t

He uses shadowripp and beats the sh-t out of me.

(Unless he is playing swordspear and I am playing egiantswordturtle )

[wind kernel]

no I'm not people keep call me with that dumb name

people keep call me with that dumb name

I'm not jenny or yasin

why people keep calling me with that names

that vibrah started call me with that both names than that buff sickle guy

just stop it

[wind kernel]

spiritons usable on high ranks

only reason low ranks cant beat it

they try spam archers

[dry rain]

Or copy top decks and try to learn them. Eventually, they learn wtf those decks are and one sticks with them.

[wind kernel]

they cant pass 1800

without know what to do

[dry rain]

Or a broken deck

[wind kernel]

you not nerfing broken decks

you just touch what balanced

or make broken thing totaly useless

idk if you realize

i only hate your posts

i tell others what wrong what can improve

but your post just dumb

meaningless

[forest plank]

What did bro do to you

[wind kernel]

always bad ideas

always target whats balanced

trying to owernerf tower for turtle meta

like who tf try nerf tower without trying nerf turtle

[dry rain]

Because I have already did balance changes for most un balanced things.

[wind kernel]

i read almost every balance changes you created

you create more problem

instead of fix

like why nerf statue hp

thats just stop people use statue at tank strat

[dry rain]

No you have not

I have made more then 11 balance posts

Much much more

[wind kernel]

i read more than 11

[dry rain]

Too many

[wind kernel]

you can just search

[dry rain]

You would be scrolling for a long time

Not all of them are called balance changes

[wind kernel]

i have time

[wind kernel]

i dont read card ideas

[dry rain]

Some are called meta changes, other meta fixes.

And more

I forget some of the names

Some are very bad (like the second one I ever made)

[wind kernel]

i juat read which created from fan ideas guy and youra

[dry rain]

I will put all the good balance changes (the ones that best fit game without changing everything else) in the next balance post.

Okay?

[wind kernel]

ok

Will see

[forest plank]

Civilbreak, could you check out my deads subfaction rework and deadkai post?

[wind kernel]

if you can actualy made something good

[wind kernel]

they are good in my opinion

just albow part annoy me