#decks vs factions

53 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

limber jay
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I just got stick war 3 a few days ago, so this idea is mostly theoretical. I also have a large bias towards stick empires, which I enjoyed a lot.

I think it would be better for the balance of the game overall if, at the beginning of the game, players chose a faction to play as and a deck of upgrades to go with it, instead of having units included in the deck.
I think this makes sense, because then factions can be balanced as a whole, rather than developers having to balance every individual unit. If the units of a faction are provided as a set, you can balance factions by tuning units from that faction. For example, if Chaos has very strong heavy melee units, Chaos can be tuned as a whole by nerfing their ranged units or their spellcasters. This makes balancing easier, because you know what unit combinations you can make, and you can make small adjustments to the faction as a whole by tuning the units in the faction. On the other hand, with the current deck system, players can combine any set of units, which makes balancing tricky. Individual units may be balanced on their own, but when combined with something else, they can become overpowered.
Secondly, having units included in the faction you pick instead of the deck you pick ensures that players always have something to counter what the opponent is doing. In the current deck-building system, every unit has an immense opportunity cost that discourages you from selecting too many units. Many of the top decks at high levels of play have only 2 or even 1 units. This sort of system reduces lots of games to the matchup. If you opponent brings something that counters the units you brought, you don’t have many other choices. Having the player pick a faction allows them to have a varied set of units that always enables them to respond to what the opponent picks. The system of picking a faction also reduces the opportunity cost of picking units, so units like the bomber who rarely get picked will have a chance to shine.

lone obsidian
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interesting idea.

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but I do Slighty agree because I think You Just Be Allowed To Mix Units.
(Expect For Campaign Maybe)

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Not To Mention some Upgrades Like Castle Archer Are Exclusive To Order

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unless they make another version but instead of archers it's toxic dead

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But this Is a fair idea ngl

twin trench
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So just remove mixed decks?(order and chaos not allowed in the same deck)

storm dragon
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or we can give bonus buffs if a deck is purely from one faction only.

or you need to pick a faction where you can use all of its units and the cards you will choose for your deck are only upgrades, enchantments, generals, and spells. maybe the included units per faction are only the main units from other games, so rip riders and sickles must be added to the deck manually.

limber walrus
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Nope

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If you're saying that you want to remove mixed decks then no

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That's just stupid

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It just doesn't make sense

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Removing mixed decks would just ruin the fun

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I'd personally stop playing it if that ever happened

lone obsidian
limber jay
twin trench
lone obsidian
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Sad face:

storm dragon
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chaos are lacking magic units, their kai is a general and most likely be medusa too

twin trench
storm dragon
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thats what im thinking, the kai is the general and the deadkai is the unit, if medusa is dead and if im not mistaken its cannon she has a daughter petra, then she can be the general and the gorgons are the units, still making chaos have enough spellcasters, not to mention the kai rider if it would exist and if they will still add the deceased medusa both as generals

limber walrus
steep ginkgo
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Overall, I strongly dislike the idea because you're taking the game we've enjoyed and completely changing the rules, and making it more like some other gang games which are already out there and less original.

Plus, do Chaos units stand a chance against well built Order units? Other than the basic zombies (which you need a group of them) and bombers (which do almost nothing) all Chaos units cost a lot when just starting a game... so the entire system and how much it cost to buy the units would change.

As @storm dragon said, MAYBE a bonus buff if a deck is purely one faction, but even that should be small if any, as it's only going to be successful with the order.

Going back to the very original, it was about gaining new units by first defeating them and then they join you, so mixing and matching is at the core of this game.

steep ginkgo
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Actually, maybe this might work in campaign mode, as that's telling a story, including which units came along on that story or adventure... so there might be some levels where only Chaos units come along or something.

But overall, currently, I think it would just mean people stop using Chao units as they don't really have a swordsman and their ranged attacks cost a heck of a lot more to get one single one than order and it'd be order all day every day currently.

limber walrus
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Like, sure, I love chaos, but to actually get decent units, it's not easy, like the ranged units all cost mana

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So I like to have a archidon when I start off, and a swordwrath until I can get the stronger units

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So removing mixed decks would just make the game boring

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And chaos doesn't have as much units as order does

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Not only that, but removing mixed decks would just be stick empires all over again, not that I'm complaining, but I'd like to have order, chaos, and elementals in one deck

storm dragon
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ill wait for crawlers, they are the equivalent of swordwraths, and should be good with pack mentality and fast speed

steep ginkgo
autumn needle
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I see what you're trying to go for

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This would make more diversity in decks at first

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However, it would eventually devolve into a very rock-paper-scissors meta

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One deck is good against another

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Ultimately making the game much less interesting and strategy based

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Feel free to change my mind tho

lone obsidian
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@limber jay

limber jay
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my bad

lone obsidian
lone obsidian
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There was nothing wrong with it

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I only post devious because I wanted to

limber jay
# steep ginkgo Overall, I strongly dislike the idea because you're taking the game we've enjoye...

I agree overall that this idea wouldn't work with the current state of the game. Chaos needs several buffs to be viable.

Right now, chaos is missing a viable basic melee and early access to ranged units, as well as magic users and generals (or some other super soldier). On the other hand, Order lacks a flying unit and giants (bombers are kind of irrelevant). For it to work, it’s important that all factions have access to similar kinds of units. For example, the same way juggerknights are counterparts to speartons, it would be good for order to have some counterpart to the Eclipsor. They shouldn’t be exact copies, but I think it’s overall healthy for each faction to have access to basic melee units, basic range units, and basic magic users. Fun unique units like bombers and shadowrath also have their place, but to a lesser extent.
This would also provide the opportunity to give chaos something like generals, but not identical. For example, we could implement giant versions of units .

storm dragon
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you know this game is still beta, albowtross, enslaved giants, and crawlers should all come soon and are all great additions that will fill the missing parts of their respective faction

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i think for this decks vs factions things, should be able to exist at the same time, like lets say modes for non rank matches, or infact maybe also add such modes to rank matches, so there is more choices than the same mode.

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like you know, only unit cards mode, or a mode which is like all cards of a chosen faction, or any mixed gamemodes

steep ginkgo
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Doesn't matter if it's beta or not... we're still playing and enjoying it, there is no reason to make it worse by limiting it.

And CURRENTLY I can not select albowtross (whatever that is), enslaved Giant (is that for the order?) and Crawler... so point still stands that it currently doesn't work with the game that we're currently playing.

Yes they could do whatever in the future, but that's hard to debate because we haven't been able to test or play the future yet. But the point still stands that currently that doesn't come close to working.

storm dragon
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egiant and crawlers are literally on development