spoiler-chat

[supple dagger]

Zariman is after

[trim tree]

Given that the natah lotus arc seems to ending that sucks

[frail nymph]

Oh... how do we know that?

[supple dagger]

There no point to going to Tau if it's unhabitable

[frail nymph]

There's no point in having a Zariman at all if Sentients have already built a rail there

[cyan crest]

Colony ships can have terraforming stuff, and the sentients' main objective was to build a rail, which the Zariman didn't need because it void jumped using reliquaries

Perintol's "she will not forgive you" is also very weird if Margulis hasn't worked with tenno yet

[frail nymph]

The Zariman itself was supposed to be a long term home for a reason. The journey there was a fraction of the actual time that would be spent in the ship

[frail nymph]

He was referring to the Void I'm pretty sure

[thick jolt]

This to me still includes the zariman

[cyan crest]

Yeah, that's weird if it's not about Margulis

[frail nymph]

Why?

"May the void forgive you."

"She will forgive me, but if you do this, the void will not forgive you."

[thick jolt]

Guess that depends if you focus on you or she

[cyan crest]

The void is a she?

[frail nymph]

The void was god when it came to Dualism... Might as well have been a goddess

[thick jolt]

Dunno feels like a stretch to me

[cyan crest]

Yeah

[frail nymph]

Margulis feels like a stretch anyway. Just out of nowhere

No relation to any of this

[cyan crest]

Perintol is an archimedian, he would know Margulis
And it's a way to get Ballas' attention and kind of mock him before the others

[zenith jacinth]

Lots of stretching here. We doing yoga?

[frail nymph]

Why would Margulis be mad at Ballas for not breaking Orokin Law to allow some robots to make a solar rail?

On top of being unrelated, Peritol hadn't even started to talk about the fact that his project was supposed to contribute to the plan. Ballas knew it was, but only Ballas did... Doesn't make for much of a scene

Keep in mind the fact that Ballas is the one who instructed him to say all of this, which makes it even weirder if he's talking about Margulis for no reason.

Margulis hasn't shown any desire to explore Tau. If anything, her experience with Tenno would make her want to stay away from all of it

[subtle crown]

Well, yeah. Margulis wasn't part of the initial void jump crew. she just had to help deal with the aftermath.

[thick jolt]

In a way she doesnt need to be related
Just need her name to "justify" ballas anger and impatience during the audience

[turbid pier]

Why was Erra seemingly subservient to ballas in new war? I thought ballas was the one on the leash

[subtle crown]

It was to gaslight Natah.

[turbid pier]

I see

[frail nymph]

He literally says, "She will not forgive you," as a direct response to "may the void forgive you."

If it's entirely unrelated, then he might as well have said "Margulis."

It's weirder than the scene where Batman spares superman just because he said Martha

[subtle crown]

The plan was to make her think Erra wanted the war so she would summon more sentient fighters. The second she does Erra drops the leash and Ballas stands upright.

[frail nymph]

That and to remain inconspicuous while things were still unstable

[kind epoch]

yellow wall

[frail nymph]

Natah would be harder to manipulate if Erra was working with the evil makers... She was already doubting even the fact that Erra is really still alive

[kind epoch]

maybe I had my brightness way too high, but the wall was quite jarring to see

[subtle crown]

It was meant to be jarring.

[frail nymph]

I love the fact that he did a front flip

Maybe he was just trying to fit through the portal sideways but still

[cyan crest]

"Yo tenno check this sick thing I've learned"

"wasn't it cool? see ya"

Maybe we misinterpreted his Requiem language

[subtle crown]

Well, misinterpretation on misinterpretation. MITW has his own language, Albrecht attempted to assign English meanings to the words, then we attempted to use those assigned meanings to make sense of what MITW said.

All the while the language could be highly fluid and contextual so what he said to us the words have a very different meaning.

[molten crystal]

Well there's still a bunch of them in Tau, and Hunhow is down there in the mosit depths of....you know, the planet between Neptune and Saturn, and Erra might return

[subtle crown]

Tau is the Sentients home and they still do not want anyone from the Sol system travelling there.

So I'm sure someone could try and sneak through and the Sentients get angy again.

[molten crystal]

If Erra manages to survive and go back, he might bring another fleet, for a proper invasion this time, maybe team up with Hunhow

[subtle crown]

He has no way to. Praghasa is basically immobile and without her he can't travel through the void to go back home.

[molten crystal]

They went from Origin to Tau once, why not again

What's to say Phragasa existed back then too

[subtle crown]

I can't actually find how they got there. Only that they got there safely through a means the Sentients don't have, and that Ballas also didn't have since he needed to use Praghasa to protect him the same way she did the Sentients travelling to Sol from Tau.

[simple python]

The sentients can't stand the void that's why they can't find another Phragasa

[subtle crown]

The void is "poison" to them. As we saw in Octavia quest even active shielding couldn't stop the constant damage they were taking.

[simple python]

Not sure what's considered when DE put this Eternalism thing into the ballpark. We could have an Old War mark 2 with an alternate universe of sentients.

[frail nymph]

How many? If any, that is

[frail nymph]

Well we would all be long ded by then. It takes a looong time to go to Tau by flying...

Although it would be faster than building rails along the way, at least

[molten crystal]

Must be a whole civilization, we know Void makes them barren, so they must've had some kind of reproductive ability to begin with and must've populated Tau

[molten crystal]

Erra is already barren, no reason why he can't use the existing rails to go back

[supple dagger]

Cause that would kill him

[subtle crown]

^

[craggy drum]

There aren’t any rails to Tau. They were destroyed during the Old War

He has no way back.

[supple dagger]

The only reason they're sterile in not dead is because of Praghasa. And she's pretty much been a corpse since then

[molten crystal]

What if he became an Amalgam?

[subtle crown]

Also, there is no rail linking Sol and Tau. That's the entire point of why the sentients sent Hunhow and a token force over to Sol the long way to stop anyone coming to Tau.

[supple dagger]

Why would he

[molten crystal]

Make a new rail and go back to Tau

[supple dagger]

I don't think the Rail was actually destroyed, just that there's no reason to jump there

[subtle crown]

Also why Erra dropped Ballas like a hot potato the SECOND Ballas said he was going to Tau.

[craggy drum]

It is destroyed. Otherwise Ballas wouldn’t need Praghasa and the Sentient could have easily hopped over to the Origin System while the Tenno were sleeping

[slim anvil]

because erra is missing like 85% of the character development he actually needs

[molten crystal]

Ballas would create another Margulis there and that one would ditch him too, and then he'd destroy Tau

[molten crystal]

Ballas needed it to destroy the sun, because if Ballas doesn't get his way, everyone else must suffer as well

[supple dagger]

It would kill the Sentients to use the Rail. And they likely have it guarded heavily on their end since the Orokin got jumped the one time we know they used it

[subtle crown]

The whole entire and literal point of the Sentients even coming to Sol in the first place is to stop anyone from going to Tau and ruining everything.

It's why Erra was fine working with Ballas. With everyone mind controlled and Ballas staying in Sol there was no risk to Tau.

[molten crystal]

What's to say Sentients in Tau can't send another army?

[subtle crown]

Nothing.

[molten crystal]

Better get ready for Newer War then

Hopefully this one won't get hijacked

[supple dagger]

They'd need a way to survive the jump

[subtle crown]

They would need another Praghasa like Sentient to protect them while in the void but they could send over another warfather.

[molten crystal]

Eh, they'll adapt, they are smart folks

[subtle crown]

They quite literally can't.

[thick jolt]

He didnt want to destroy the sun for funsies
It was to open a portal to tau

[supple dagger]

They very specifically can't

[molten crystal]

They also couldn't disbale Warframes but they found a way

[subtle crown]

What?

[supple dagger]

Because Natah told them how

Which is an entirely different situation

[subtle crown]

Natah gave them detailed instructions on how to do it.

[molten crystal]

So? It just works

[supple dagger]

It's very much a jump to them somehow changing their very makeup

[subtle crown]

The sentients can never adapt to the void. It is poison where even being inside Praghasa and shielded from direct contact they're still barren.

[molten crystal]

Caliban and his Conculusts seem fine

[past kiln]

caliban is a warframe

[molten crystal]

And Erra made em, who knows with some Kuva he might be able to overcome that flaw, the Eidolon sure thought so

[past kiln]

temple kuva only resets the sterilizing iirc

[subtle crown]

Raw void damages them. Like being in acid.

[molten crystal]

So Erra alone just make a whole army, give some to the 3 Eidolons and Hunhow and we got a party

[supple dagger]

That just resets them. They're still as weak to the Void as ever

[molten crystal]

What if they don't use the Void? Just fly from Tau to here?

[subtle crown]

You need to pass through the void.

[wraith sigil]

Who’s they?

[supple dagger]

That'll take them hundreds to thousands of years to slow boat it

[molten crystal]

If that'd be the cass all sentients would be barren or dead

[subtle crown]

They being Erra going back to Tau for some reason.

[wraith sigil]

Ah ok

[subtle crown]

The sentients still in Tau are fine.

[supple dagger]

You have to use the Void to travel in any kind of efficient manner

[past kiln]

Erra would somehow need a way to make Praghasa alive again to make her tank another void jump, and eating the sun is kind of a problem b/c it'd kill the sol sentients

[molten crystal]

Perhaps if the Sentients in Tau have developed faster travel, circumvent the Void completely

All the Sentients in Sol have been here for millenias, they don't know what muckery their kin have cooked up in Tau

[supple dagger]

We don't. And Tau Sentients have no reason to come back either

[subtle crown]

Why would they need to travel though?

[wicked iron]

If there are Sentients still in Tau. Entirely possible they all came to Sol.

[subtle crown]

If they all came that would be a terrible decision tbh.

[molten crystal]

Oh my

[subtle crown]

Send over Hunhow and a small army to make sure those still in Tau keep their paradise.

[wraith sigil]

As long as daughter is safe lel

[craggy drum]

This. If they all came to the Sol system they’d be damning their race to sterilisation

[molten crystal]

So we can finally have that Tenno vs Sentient War we have been so hyped up about ever since Parkour 2.0 became a thing, remember that trailer of Excalibur staring down 1000s of Sentients?

[wicked iron]

The alternative would be to potentially lose the war in Sol with less forces, and then lose Tau to an even more powerful Orokin/Tenno fleet.

[subtle crown]

Oh, you're still going on about that.

[supple dagger]

That was just for Second Dream. There was no war there

We got the pay off for that trailer already

[subtle crown]

Mesa + Xaku subsume will make incredibly short work of any war with sentients.

Saryn as well since every tick of her spores will also tick void damage.

[wicked iron]

I thought Xaku's ability only amplifies weapon damage, not all.

[molten crystal]

I was promised a war, I was given feels. None of the things in that New War trailer made it into the game, no confrontation with Natah, no Margulis flashbacks, no frying Sentients with Void beam while crying, only Ballas being insecure

[supple dagger]

Yeah, cause it was a trailer meant for hype

[molten crystal]

Even Phragasa was supposed be alive and instigating Lotus, but instead both for braindead

[subtle crown]

We saw the war. The war was the Sol system vs the sentients.

[supple dagger]

Of course most of it wasn't gonna actually be in the quest

[subtle crown]

Not the Tenno vs Sentients.

[supple dagger]

didn't feel like a war except for the grineer side ingame, was more like a sudden everyone instalost

[molten crystal]

The Warframes, even Umbra, decided to just go on a strike

[subtle crown]

Yes. That was a big part of what the quest told us.

[wraith sigil]

Act 2 was like the war was over and we all lost

[subtle crown]

That we are so hilariously overpowered that any war would never be satisfying.

We have a great many ways of dealing with level 9999 enemies. How do you make a war like that work?

[molten crystal]

I built an entire Railjack and Necramrch expecting a War, I barely got a conflict

[subtle crown]

Because it was not our war.

[molten crystal]

What are we even doing in this system?

[subtle crown]

Being overpowered as hell.

[molten crystal]

Let's all go to Tau and invade them for a change

The Reversed War

[wraith sigil]

Yup good idea

[supple dagger]

tbh we're pretty much the weapon and biggest hope of whoever we're allied to
that's why when the op dissapeared they lost hard

[thick jolt]

Yeah sure lets go to tau with limited supplies fight against unknown numbers and firepower

[wraith sigil]

Can our railjacks even reach tau in a single void jump?

[slim anvil]

didnt mag prime codex go to tau

[molten crystal]

Like that ever stopped us

[subtle crown]

We go there and even if it was exclusively level 9999 sentients we would still wipe the floor like nobodies business.

[thick jolt]

Eventually the supplies in the orbiter would run out is what i mean

[molten crystal]

We'll do our own Scarlet Spear and Orphic Venom first

[supple dagger]

It quite literally did in the Old war

We went to Tau and got jumped bad

[molten crystal]

1 Sentient core will immediately refund everything

[molten crystal]

We were young back then

[supple dagger]

Quite literally the main reason we were winning is cause they couldn't reproduce

[thick jolt]

Yes supplies magically appear if you offer a sentient core

[subtle crown]

A huge part of the quest was directly telling us how OP we are. It took the warfather helping a Tenno without void powers and even then drifter could just barely fight back.

Then we rock up and kill them in under 5 seconds.

[molten crystal]

They restore your health, energy and shields, instantly, we'll work around that

[supple dagger]

gameplay =/= actual happening

[frail nymph]

There are no existing rails. That's why Ballas needed Praghasa. Hunhow says that they severed the worlds after crossing the gap way back in Natah quest

[molten crystal]

1. Mass harvest sentient cores
2. Use it to run shield generators
3. Drain shields from shield generator to run everything else
   4)????
4. Grofit

[molten crystal]

We are Void demons, we'll take a shortcut

[subtle crown]

You will never get the war you want.

[frail nymph]

I mean that we're not sure if all stayed back

[molten crystal]

Then we colonize Tau

[supple dagger]

We very much cannot

[thick jolt]

?) Make bullets and operator living supplies appear out of thin air

[molten crystal]

We will take our Dojo with us

[molten crystal]

We will melee

[thick jolt]

This gets more and more ridiculous as it goes on

[subtle crown]

Kill everyone in Sol then go to Tau and subjugate the sentients still in Tau before inevitably ruining Tau as well.

[supple dagger]

[molten crystal]

Do not describe Warframe lore to me

[subtle crown]

You're clearly ignoring it anyway.

[molten crystal]

Complete the Orokin legacy

[frail nymph]

Don't have that kind of tech anymore... Although it would be interesting to go make peace with sentients there

[supple dagger]

we're on a channel to discuss lore of upcoming content
do not describe warframe lore to me

[molten crystal]

Yes like they ignored Arcane Machine and Oro

[subtle crown]

The Sentients in Tau very much do not want us there. they're fine with us destroying ourselves in Sol.

[thick jolt]

Oro was barely a thing from an ignored part of the game anyway

[subtle crown]

Oro has also been in the game for years.

[molten crystal]

You are telling me Conclave and Lunaro had no serious lore implications?

[frail nymph]

Implications? Yes. Serious? No... All we got was a name for the "press x to revive" button

And also the name for the sentient version of that, aka the ability of an Eidolon to come back

[molten crystal]

Even Railjack crew does that nowadays

[molten crystal]

That's due to Oro?

[frail nymph]

No I mean the hold x to revive yourself button

[molten crystal]

Ahhhhh

[frail nymph]

Steve said Oro represents the resurrection ability of the Tenno and other enemies that Teshin is most concerned with (Sentients).
Doesn't really change anything, even knowing that

[molten crystal]

So any Sentient once killed can just press X to revive?

[wraith sigil]

Oro is one the reasons we cheat death

[supple dagger]

Is that from an early Devstream?

[molten crystal]

I thought qe cheat death bwcause we ain't the one dying

[frail nymph]

Well more like Oro is something that needs to be destroyed to guarantee death...

Lotus didn't exactly press x to revive but was revived...

[molten crystal]

I feel like I've heard this concept before

[frail nymph]

Yeah Teshin describes the exact mechanics in conclave

[molten crystal]

But in another franchise

[frail nymph]

oh

[wraith sigil]

Like the oro we steal when we kill a sentient?

[molten crystal]

I know a movie like this

[subtle crown]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7QVemHYKn4&t=3023s timestamp.

[frail nymph]

It was from a devstream in which they were introducing conclave... super old

[molten crystal]

Maybe I am thinking of Liches (not the Warframe ones)

Oh no wait, in Elder Scrolls

[frail nymph]

Not sure if that's Oro. I think only the big powerful sentients can revive... The ones that become Eidolons.

Especially since that thing blows up by itself

[wraith sigil]

Hmm… I remember stallordd saying the sentiments have an unstable version of oro

[molten crystal]

Eidolons feel completely detached from other sentients

[wraith sigil]

Sentients*

[molten crystal]

Like we even have seperate Ediolon frame and Sentient frame

[frail nymph]

There's no reason to believe theirs is unstable... Other than assuming that the stuff that falls on the ground and blows up is Oro

[craggy drum]

The Plains Eidolons are tiny fragments of the original giant sentient they came from that are alive enough to move around and long to be whole, but dead enough to never be able to reunite into a whole being

Basically zombies.

Not quite alive, not quite fully dead

[molten crystal]

Limbo Sentients

[frail nymph]

Eidolon is just a dead sentient ghost thing. The great sentient turned into the three PoE eidolons. The Ropalolyst is an eidolon. Lotus in New War was an eidolon

[molten crystal]

Did you guys notice that the hand that wally extends to us in Zariman looks alot like Lotus' severed hand?

[subtle crown]

Yes.

[wraith sigil]

Yes I noticed

[frail nymph]

Yes it was all over the subreddit

I was too drunk to notice during the quest itself

[subtle crown]

And 2 different spoiler channels in this and the other warframe discords.

[molten crystal]

I noticed it on my 4th replay

[supple dagger]

Were Sentients even a things at that point?

[frail nymph]

Damn and I'm here questioning if I should even bother with a 3rd

[molten crystal]

Also who exactly takes off the drifter's mask when they are first revealed? Lotus or Ordis?

[frail nymph]

The "enemies teshin is most concerned with" are the sentients.

[molten crystal]

They existed as a concept

[supple dagger]

ordis

[molten crystal]

Or the Queens

They kinda can press X to revive

And were controlling Teshin

[frail nymph]

It's ordis but yeah I have no idea why the arm looks exactly like Lotus's tentacle

[molten crystal]

Right?

[wraith sigil]

Continuity go brrr

[molten crystal]

You take a Kuva sipp, and you shall never dipp

[frail nymph]

Not really, cause Teshin's entire purpose with the conclave is to train us to fight sentients

That wouldn't exactly make sense for the queens

[subtle crown]

The stream was about 2 months before the Natah quest that introduced us to Sentients.

[molten crystal]

Maybe that's him trying to prepare us for the Queens without actually them knowing, remember he says he's been training us for this during our fight with him

[subtle crown]

Stream 2015-05-09, Sentients introduced 2017-07-31

[frail nymph]

Prolly reused asset because it was lying around in the room at the time

[frail nymph]

But we know that he's been training Tenno to fight Sentients...

Or at least that's what I was told

[molten crystal]

It can be 2 things

[frail nymph]

Besides, Teshin has always been trying to keep Tenno away from the Queens and keep it a secret

[subtle crown]

Then second dream was 2015-12-03 so 7 months after.

[trim tree]

Wait are the sentients using the void to travel? I thought they take the slow way to avoid it?

[frail nymph]

had* RIP

[molten crystal]

He saws an awful lot about training given anyone barely ever does conclave

[trim tree]

How are they damaged?

[craggy drum]

No it’s lotus using her ghost tentacle arm thing that she later uses to choke the Drifter

[molten crystal]

They went there via the slow, then they used a solra rail, but that uses void they got sterile

[subtle crown]

They aren't. It's mostly shadow crackpipe theory about how to instigate another war for some reason.

[frail nymph]

The slow way is also damaging because the journey is vaguely "perilous." So flying to the system while taking damage to start a war wasn't an option.

Instead they took the rails quickly and gave up fertility. And then destroyed the rails right away

[molten crystal]

Too weak to stand up, but will take away your gun and hood

Mom move

[frail nymph]

Probably just a reused asset that was close by while animating the scene

Lotus didn't even have a body at the time

[supple dagger]

probably a way ordis does stuff on the ship

[molten crystal]

Ordis was a flying Cephalon and most of Orbiter was in stasis so prolly was Lotus

[frail nymph]

But then why wouldn't she recognise drifter?

[subtle crown]

🤦

[supple dagger]

Because she was half dead and delirious

[molten crystal]

Maybe that was just she doing something instinctually

Oh, shiny gun must have. No? Okay, take hood then

What did she have a Lotus in her lap for though?

[supple dagger]

she had what made her lotus taken away so pretty much she was a sentient barely alive and decaying on that chair
consider how when you put one of the fragments from the archons she doesn't recognize you and attacks you by instinct

[molten crystal]

Symbolism?

[frail nymph]

https://youtu.be/dVYKSFeRtJQ?t=4299
You can hear Ordis flying around when the hat thing happens and you can see the arm as if the source of it is orbiting around him. Drifter even talks directly to the hand, which cannot be lotus.

[molten crystal]

I mean what else would be speak to if not the hand? Not much of Lotus left to speak at

Just a wierd outline and a lotus flower

[frail nymph]

He was speaking to Ordis. "good to see you too.... continues talking to him"

[supple dagger]

The claw that take the hood can only be the Lotus. It's the exact same spectral consistency as she was and the same claw she had before

[frail nymph]

Again, temporarily reused asset. Lotus would not gesture "good to see you" to Drifter

[supple dagger]

She didn't

Drifter was just talking to her body, then was talking to Ordis

[molten crystal]

Nah, why would Ordis take his hood and gun?

[frail nymph]

Also why is the hand coming from the opposite side of the room here?

[supple dagger]

Drifter isn't talking to Ordis until they directly reference them by name

[frail nymph]

It's like taking someone's coat

[supple dagger]

It's the opposite side, it's from the ceiling

[molten crystal]

She sentient queen, she do a strech

[frail nymph]

The orientation is wrong. If it was a stretch, the claw would be upside down

Like underhand vs overhand

[molten crystal]

She also disembodied

Kinda

[supple dagger]

Except it's not treated like that. Drifter treats it like a child or pet taking you things

[frail nymph]

There's nobody else to talk to. Lotus is unconscious, almost dead

[frail nymph]

Drifter treats ordis like one, yes

[molten crystal]

There is, if you consider eidolon Lotus, who is only half dead

We know Eidolons do stuff based on instincts

[frail nymph]

She was not conscious.

And eidolon instincts are not to playfully take a stranger's helmet when they come home, their instinct is to kill the stranger, like lotus almost did.

[molten crystal]

And the Eidolons romaning the plains every night trying to find their non-existent pieces are?

[frail nymph]

Fully conscious

[molten crystal]

Maybe that's why she reached for the gun

[frail nymph]

It's literally a playful scene

It feels nothing like a tentacle trying its best to kill a stranger

[molten crystal]

The Drifter treats it as a playful scene

[subtle crown]

Just a fun reminder.

[molten crystal]

The tentacle's main body is half dead, it's like a headless chicken or a lizard's tail

[zenith jacinth]

And they lived in the void for years, so they're probably careful about treating things that way

[frail nymph]

Drifter says "hey" and it casually backs off. Then it playfully takes the helmet slowly and goes away. Totally a murderous dangerous tentacle amirite?

That Tentacle has the strength to immediately choke out drifter, meanwhile (if it belongs to lotus)

[molten crystal]

Then perhaps since she's unconscious Lotus mistakes the Drifter for Operator

[fossil fractal]

would make sense

[molten crystal]

The veil sure didn't know

[fossil fractal]

if it was supposed to be ordis i think they could at least recolour it

[subtle crown]

Y'all have fun. I'm checking out, here is hoping this lore with spoilers room goes back to lore with spoilers and not whatever this is.

[craggy drum]

It has that kind of strength when Lotus has already consumed 2 Archon Crystals

If it were stronger the Drifter wouldn’t have been able to just grab the gun back.

[fossil fractal]

have a good one

[frail nymph]

The first half of that sentence literally contradicts the second half. Unconscious literally means you can't think or feel

[molten crystal]

Semi-conscious then

Or no better yet

Sub-conscious

[frail nymph]

Evidence? Lotus was lying pretty lifeless

[fossil fractal]

ordis' scans did detect drifter as operator so a semi-conscious lotus/natah confusing them would be feasible i guess

[frail nymph]

A semi-conscious one, yes. An unconscious eidolon that might as well be dead, no.

[molten crystal]

She wasn't completely dead, she was in survival mode, on life-support

[supple dagger]

We also Lotus using the exact same claw later when she's fighting us. It entirely can't be Ordis

[frail nymph]

Reused assets are a thing in Warframe

[molten crystal]

Yeah, guy didn't even activate purge precept

[frail nymph]

The thing that drops off enemies in Deimos is not literally a Helminth segment

[molten crystal]

Helminth itself is infested, no harm in believing there are others like him in tge wild or that they have a common anvestor or whatver infested have

[frail nymph]

What life-support?

[frail nymph]

Or, you know, look at the fact: reused model. One of them is technocyte, the other is helminth.

[fossil fractal]

the claw would have been recoloured

[frail nymph]

Why?

[fossil fractal]

because otherwise its just confusing

[molten crystal]

Ordis says they tried everything, so maybe give her some Sentitent cores, Orokin cells, a Forma

[frail nymph]

He tried googling everything

[frail nymph]

And that doesn't really matter. You don't see the claw from Lotus until much later

[supple dagger]

Sure, reused assets are a thing, but when it's the claw shown to belong to only one character and they are repeatable the only person to use it, there's no reason to think it's being reused.

[simple python]

Okay, prior to this: she does have a body, just her avatar's body not the full set.
Also she wouldn't recognize drifter because she didn't train the drifter. Keep in mind Lotus was programmed to be like Mother/Margulis to the Tenno. The Tenno still lost on the Zariman, like our drifter, are not recognizeable to her.

[molten crystal]

Helminth is literally a specific strain of technocyte, why wouldn't he have any similarity with them?

[frail nymph]

So when the mouth shown only belongs to Helminth, there's no reason to belive that Deimos dropships are not helminth?

[supple dagger]

There's no reasonable explaination to Ordis having this one time sentient claw we never see from them again

[fossil fractal]

they could like make it come from ordis or something

[autumn turret]

i have doubts she'd even recognize the operator in that state

[fossil fractal]

or literally just make it float

[frail nymph]

Why don't warframes look like ancients then?

[frail nymph]

No, because that would ruin the obvious suspense.

[fossil fractal]

they arent the same right

[autumn turret]

because warframes were specifically designed

[fossil fractal]

what suspense the drifter looked and sounded perfectly comfortable

and the "hey" sounded very playful

[frail nymph]

It was floating. The arm was leading up to an object that was literally going around drifter in a full circle

[molten crystal]

They are infested Orokin, Warframes are humans infsted with an extremely specific strain that makes the skin go steel but leaves the mind intact

[frail nymph]

The suspense for the player. It's a cinematic custscene

[supple dagger]

Everything about the claw point to it being the Lotus, so why would I think it's somehow Ordis, especially since Ordis isn't brought up until directly asked a question

[fossil fractal]

if there was supposed to be suspense in that scene they could do more like they did in every other suspenseful cutscene in tnw

like the stereotypical intense music

[frail nymph]

One thing only: the look.
Everything else points to Ordis: Sound effects, position in space, nature/feel of it

[molten crystal]

And majority of the Orbiter is offline, Ordis is in a Sentinel body due to that, why would be be controlling that 1 specific tentacle?

[supple dagger]

tbh the "tentacles" reminded me of the hoses on the warframe cryopods

[craggy drum]

Drifter is also directly looking at and then walks up to Lotus in the chair and only then to they speak to Ordis and address him directly by name

[frail nymph]

Do you really not understand the point of not showing Ordis's face until his name comes up in the dialogue?

[fossil fractal]

didnt really feel suspenseful at all to me

[molten crystal]

How exactly was Ordis controlling the tentacle?

[frail nymph]

Nope, he only looks directly at Lotus after the whole thing. Drifter is literally turned away 180 degrees from the lotus while saying "alright"

[molten crystal]

Does it just come out from under his sentinel body?

[frail nymph]

Probably

[molten crystal]

You know just so I don't have to have that mental image, imma go with that tentacke being Lotus

[frail nymph]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[fossil fractal]

so it just pops out of here

[molten crystal]

We accept this memory and move beyond it's reach

[fossil fractal]

okay

[frail nymph]

If it's lotus's arm, where is it?

[zenith jacinth]

Imma touch your memory

[wicked iron]

That was one of Lotus's arms, that removed our helmet. Not Ordis.

[frail nymph]

It comes from way off to the side

[wicked iron]

Same arm that chokes the Drifter in the fight.

[fossil fractal]

btw any hints for what happens in aotz i wasnt paying attention

[molten crystal]

Hey, return that Aya

[frail nymph]

It can't be, even just based on looking at where the arm is coming from

[zenith jacinth]

🧠👈

[molten crystal]

This is how Maroo makes endo

[zenith jacinth]

Touched the memory

[frail nymph]

Like seriously, where is it?

[zenith jacinth]

Funky insect-like things

[molten crystal]

We return this memory to the Void and find peace in our emptiness.

[supple dagger]

The claw has the exact same look as the rest of Eidolon Lotus

[zenith jacinth]

Sounds like a job for anyo

[fossil fractal]

the arm is energy so it could just come out of anywhere right

[molten crystal]

We use this memory. It fuels our wrath

Imma say the most iconic quote from this game

"Why does it have to be ravenous?"

[torpid lantern]

The way the Drifter speaks in that scene also only works for him addressing Lotus

[supple dagger]

Th arm is coming from somewhere above us

[frail nymph]

How exactly?

Why would he treat lotus like a child? That would be Ordis

[supple dagger]

He's treating he like a child because she's nearly dead and is pretty much all instinct

[molten crystal]

Why would he treat Ordis like a child?

[frail nymph]

Because that's how Ordis acts all the time

[molten crystal]

[fossil fractal]

asks ordis immediately afterwards so imo it would make sense if drifter said something like "good to see you too ordis"

[frail nymph]

Instinct = kill drifter

[torpid lantern]

He never once addresses Ordis with a soothing playful tone in the entire quest. But he is constantly talking to Lotus that way.
"No biting this time, okay?"

[supple dagger]

We literally never treat Ordis like a child

[molten crystal]

What part of Ordis is childish?

[wicked iron]

She only tried to kill the Drifter after she got enough energy back with shard #2, and after we said we were Tenno when she knew they weren't.

[frail nymph]

There's no tone change from him saying "alright alright" to "what do you think?"

[frail nymph]

We are Operator, not Drifter.

[supple dagger]

When she gets her faculties back, yes. Drifter also never treats Ordis like a child

[molten crystal]

She doesn't know that, that tentacle is all muscle memory

[frail nymph]

I was talking about operator not speak to Ordis like he's childish

[supple dagger]

Ordis wouldn't try to take the gun or hood away either

[frail nymph]

Why not?

It's the equivalent of taking someone's coat

[supple dagger]

It's really not

[frail nymph]

Of course it is. There's no other reason to

[fossil fractal]

hed take the whole coat if he wanted to

[frail nymph]

There's no whole coat though

It's a shirt

[torpid lantern]

Which would be funny because he couldn't exactly stow it anywhere. Even the hood is like half his size

[fossil fractal]

looks pretty coat-y to mee

[fossil fractal]

true

[molten crystal]

Gun has unlimited ammo and hood needs no maintenance and Ordis is told by the Drifter to not treat him like the Operator

[supple dagger]

It doesn't make sense for Ordis to suddenly want to take a weapon or clothing when entering the Orbiter

[fossil fractal]

yeah he could have taken them when reaching the camp itself

[frail nymph]

Same for an unconscious body

[torpid lantern]

And ordis is not a butler

[fossil fractal]

or reaching the other sub-bit thingy where arsenal stuff

[molten crystal]

Wet nurse, sure. Butler, nope.

[supple dagger]

She's not unconscious, just nearly dead

[frail nymph]

Again, where tentacle

[molten crystal]

Roof

[fossil fractal]

hunhow says that every fragment is a part of his mind

[supple dagger]

Somewhere above us is the best we can say when it's never in focus

[fossil fractal]

so maybe theres just an arm hanging on the roof thats a part of lotus

[wicked iron]

The Drifter says "alright, alright. Good to see you, too," after the helmet is removed, while looking and walking in Lotus's direction.

[frail nymph]

Lotus is far off to the right and it comes from al the way left. Drifter doesn't even see it until this instant. And there's nothing extending from the chair upwards

[molten crystal]

We are discussing real lore heavy stuff here today

[wicked iron]

There's no one else it could be addressing. That's why the next line addresses Ordis, because the prior was not.

[frail nymph]

time between content releases be like

[molten crystal]

Now why would they re-use assets for a quest as important as this?

[supple dagger]

It's not coming from the left, it's coming from above

[frail nymph]

It's a way of speaking. It doesn't mean that's the first time adressing him, minion

[frail nymph]

And there's nothing extending upwards from lotus

[molten crystal]

The part connecting it to her maybe invisible since she's mostly faded away

[wicked iron]

Let's just move to a different topic. This is just going in circles.

[frail nymph]

Here it's not even from above anymore, it's from behind... almost exactly opposite to where Lotus is, and exactly where Ordis's floating sounds are coming from

[molten crystal]

Alright, then, why did Ordis not activate the purge precepts for Drifter?

[frail nymph]

Yeah cool

[wicked iron]

There is no purge precept. That was part of Elder Queen's deception.

[supple dagger]

Ordis is on the exact opposite side of that claw too though

[fossil fractal]

you could argue that the purge precepts are something that happened in the "dream" segment of tww

but no way in hell ordis just lets some random idiot on the orbiter

[molten crystal]

Or perhaps that's why the Orbiter is offline

To suppress the precept

[wicked iron]

Ordis was still fully active. There is no purge precept.

[fossil fractal]

i dont think it exists

[wicked iron]

The Elder Queen was trying to fill us with despair, and making us think Ordis turned on us was part of it.

[fossil fractal]

i think its a bit of the weird simulation deception dream thingy in war within

idk why she didnt just force us to kill margulis

would def make us fill with despair

[molten crystal]

Well then she'd risk us remembering oir past and rejecting her trying to manipulate our memories into despair. Remember evertime she recounts a memory from Zariman her hand symbolically wraps around our throat, but we recalling our tur past allows us to disrput her twisting of facts.

[frail nymph]

It's quite interesting that she (mentally) brings victims to the continuity advertisement room thing to do continuity on them

[molten crystal]

Huh, I just realised, the Queens used Kuva to twist memories before Ballas did

[fossil fractal]

wdym

lore-wise ballas doing continuity for so long

[wicked iron]

Teshin somehow commandeered it and brought us there to awaken our full powers.

[fossil fractal]

ages of watching continuity i figure he found out some way to counter it

teshin must have been pretty epic gamer to survive the fall

[frail nymph]

Well the Queen seemed like that's what she wanted as well

[molten crystal]

She was using Kuva to make make us fill with despair, trying to fabricate fake memories in our mind to make us fall deeper into despair, but thanks to Teshin's help we recollected our true memories, along with them our powers, allowing us to always stop her mid sentence with our replies, allowing us to escape the Golden Orokin Maw (Symbolic of the Queens) with our new found powers (symbolic of our memories)

[frail nymph]

I mean all he did was unlock our powers again

Which is similar to how the void requiems break kuva lich immortality

[molten crystal]

Ballas does the same thing, he uses Kuva to twist the facts, fill you with despair and make you believe his version of reality

[fossil fractal]

he was doing that in the orokin age too though right

[molten crystal]

It also strengthened our connection to Wally, enough to overwhelm Rell

Man I wish Rell had a cameo in War Within

[fossil fractal]

rell is so cool

i hope we get to talk to him again drifter or normal

[molten crystal]

How'd he get a Warframe though

If Mragulis set him aside and didn't let him dream, who gave him a Harrow?

[fossil fractal]

farmed for harrow obviously smh my head ||im joking||

[molten crystal]

And then for whom was a Harrow Prime made

Prime frames be breaking lore

Imagine Caliban Prime

[fossil fractal]

i guess the harrow and harrow prime were made already so the red veil just took a random harrow and gave it to rell

only way i can think of

[molten crystal]

Rell's memories weren't suppresed so he must've reatained his powers of independent transference unlike us

[fossil fractal]

yeep

one line of teshin is a bit confusing where he says your old powers have united with your new

[molten crystal]

Man Margulis was not very friendly towards differently abled

[supple dagger]

I mean probably, but he never would've used them

[molten crystal]

Or maybe the Veil just kidnapped Rell

[fossil fractal]

someone in the other server pointed out that maybe she just had so much on her plate that she couldnt handle rell

or rell just walked out because he felt the duty to hold off wall dude, but whatever the case i gotta go sleep now so cya have a good day

[molten crystal]

Was he truly any more disturbing than all the other kids at that point? If anything he understood everything better than them, probably could've helped her out

[molten crystal]

Same

[fossil fractal]

good night

[molten crystal]

Goodnight, don't let the 2 Archon shard fed Eidolons bite

[frail nymph]

Rell's theories were all directly opposed to everything Margulis understood about the void and exposure to it... That along with his inevitable insistence on it probably made it impossible to work with him.

Giving up on him would feel like being cast out to Rell

[crystal bridge]

EmreEser1655 beni dolandırdı ne yapmalıyım lütfen yardım edin 50 plat aldı

EmreEser1655 warframe oyuncusu

[kind epoch]

not sure what that says, but since I can read 50 plat I'm going to say that's in the wrong channel

[craggy solstice]

Dolandırıcılıklar destek platformuna bildirilmelidir.

Bu discord sunucusu sadece ingilizcedir, lütfen sadece ingilizce kullanın.

Please use only english in this discord.

[craggy solstice]

https://digitalextremes.zendesk.com/hc/en-us

[torpid lantern]

I don't believe at all that she singled out Rell. She had a team helping her with her work, like we learned from Silvana, which probably meant she had a team helping her with the kids too. (And there was a whole slew of them). I'd bet they were assigned to different teams and people based on how badly the ship messed them up.

Kids that couldnt control their powers. Kids that could. Kids that had extreme PTSD, or developed disassociation disorders in order to cope (Rell might have been lumped into that group), and of course kids that just didn't want to be there or have anything to do with the Orokin.

In War within, the Operator has a line talking about how they stood up against the Orokin treating them like lab rats so it definitely wasn't a happy time

I believe that there were lots of kids like Rell that got lost in the system. The Orokin didn't like the project, tried to shut it down. The staff were under significant stress which would've worsened when Margulis started getting more and more pressure from her superiors. Even if Margulis genuinely cared, realistically she couldn't be there for everyone and we've got a whole slew of examples in real life to know that stuff like that is never immune to corruption. In that setting, I can easily see abuse and mishandling happening. People like rell and others ended up suffering

[supple dagger]

I mean, we know she personally saw Rell

So he's at minimum someone she intentionally let slide

[slow flame]

guys need to farm ash

or ember

any one help mer

[supple dagger]

#757632548842111086 and select your platform's recruitment channel

[torpid lantern]

Oh definitely! She probably saw all of the kids at some point, but I dont think she worked with all of them since there was just way too many for one person

[subtle crown]

Yeah, she gets a lot of flak for dealing with potentially 5-6 digits of traumatised children.

[fossil fractal]

kinda hoping we get to like play as her or something

or see what lotus meant when natah says "i have seen the wall's other face too"\

[molten crystal]

Maybe that's how Stalker and his bunch of misfits came along, kids who rejcted Transference and decided to get stuck in their Warframes permanently

[subtle crown]

One theory.

[molten crystal]

Hunhow says Stalker hates himself, so maybe they hated being Tenno so much they just permanantly shiftef to their Warframe, used Kuva perhaps

[subtle crown]

Another one is stalker and his crew went through what Umbra did except it wasn't a punishment.

[molten crystal]

But Stalker also went mad after findung out what the Tenno truly are so there's that

[subtle crown]

Some have walked these desolate worlds while you have slept. Some like me. I remember what you did. I remember the day.

The Tenno appeared at the Terminus, gleaming and victorious. Our cold and gold Emperors, breathless, bathed you in savior's silk. Then came the sound. Across all our worlds, all at once, the ceremonial Naga drums. A royal salute to the honored Tenno. Ten solemn beats to declare the suffering was over. I watched from a distance, with the rest of the low Guardians. With each beat terror began to crush my throat. The Tenno were not stoic and silent. They were waiting. They were poised. I tried to call out but only a strangled whisper escaped.

When the ninth beat rang a torrent of blood filled the stadium, loosed by Tenno blades. The drums, the Empire, fell silent forever.
Now I hunt, dividing your numbers. Watching from that dark place, cataloging your sins, I am the ghost of retribution. You may forget but you are not innocent.
Stalker codex entry.

[molten crystal]

And the Acolytes say something like "United by Dreams, divided by blood"

[subtle crown]

Stalker was a "low guardian". He knew what the Tenno actually were.

[molten crystal]

Or perhaps he's in denial about being a Tenno and not the Warframe

[subtle crown]

Maybe convinced himself that now he no longer has a Tenno body he is not one of them.

[molten crystal]

But then he saw the Operator on Lua and hesitated, thinking to himself that perhaps he's a Tenno after all

[subtle crown]

Not on Lua, on the orbiter.

[molten crystal]

He was there when the Operator crawled out of the pod and was being carried by the Warframe, but he hesitates to kill them and Hunhow says his hatered is too weak

Wonder why he ditched his armor and War in New War and went back to using his old gear

[subtle crown]

https://youtu.be/rQZ8jsHiSSU?t=279 Orbiter.

I'm guessing he ditched the armour after the sword broke. He was back to his original loadout that was way more deadly.

[molten crystal]

He still uses new loadout post Second Dream when he hunts us tho

[subtle crown]

Yes, when he hunts us as if during the second dream.

Power downgrade and all.

[molten crystal]

Maybe Hunhow got tired of being carried everywhere

[subtle crown]

Now that he is back to his despair/dread/hate loadout stalker can go back to being an actual threat who one shots players from accross the room.

[molten crystal]

Is the massive Sentient attacking Lua during the Erra quest Hunhow?

[subtle crown]

Need to double check, sec.

[supple dagger]

Yes

[subtle crown]

Yes, that is Grandpa Hunhow.

[supple dagger]

Hunhow and Praghasa are the only two massive ship Sentients in the origin system

[subtle crown]

Back before he was severely weakened and "buried" at the bottom of Uranus ocean.

[molten crystal]

He went all the way to Lua, didn't even destroy the reservoir, got bullied by bunch of Railjacks and fell into Uranus

[subtle crown]

Hunhow is a warfather. A powerful one but still a warfather. Organisation is his thing.

[supple dagger]

The opposite, he drew the Orokin to Uranus and went down deliberately

[molten crystal]

To leave Lua undefended?

[supple dagger]

His only mistaking was thinking Ballas wouldn't screw him over

[subtle crown]

Probably to give time for Natah to do her job.

[supple dagger]

No, the Sentients didn't really care about attacking Lua

[subtle crown]

But then Ballas abused, brainwashed and gaslit Natah not to do that.

[supple dagger]

Or rather, it wasn't one of their goals

[molten crystal]

It'd kill all the Tenno, get rid of the Warframes, Ballas did reveal their secret to him

[supple dagger]

Yeah, which is why they planned to use the Tenno against the Orokin

[fossil fractal]

they were planning to do that?

[molten crystal]

Warframe's lore is just bunch of double crossing and betrayals

[molten crystal]

It was part of the sequence, as said bu Lotus, during Natah

[fossil fractal]

thought natah was supposed to kil them

[subtle crown]

Ballas at least planned that.

[molten crystal]

Yes, via the Tenno, she's a mimic after all

[subtle crown]

So, before Hunhow and Natah/Erra traveled to the Sol system the plan was for Natah to infiltrate and kill the Tenno.

[molten crystal]

Though I doubt Tenno needed much encouragement, they didn't like the Orokin much anyway

[fossil fractal]

kill the tenno and the orokin go down

thats what i thought their plan was

[subtle crown]

Natah arriving in Sol took on the appearance of Margulis to make infiltration easier. Then Ballas rocked up and threw a wrench in everyones plan.

[molten crystal]

Make the Tenno kill the Orokin then kill the kids, Grofit

[subtle crown]

So Ballas changed Natah plan from "kill the kids" to "use the kids to kill the orokin empire, and then kill them".

[fossil fractal]

but then natah said no to killing the kids

[molten crystal]

Lotus is connected to them after all, has their taint, can even get them to fire void beams in synchornized way

[fossil fractal]

because a theory i heard was that the orokin exploited a hole in natah's programming to make her the lotus

[molten crystal]

Ballas*

[fossil fractal]

why would ballas say no to killing the kids

[supple dagger]

No, Natah mostly

[molten crystal]

To make Natah more like Margulis

[subtle crown]

Natah said no kid death.

[fossil fractal]

he pretty clearly wanted to kill the kids

every time we've seen ballas he either wants to kill or manipulate us

[supple dagger]

Ballas wanted us just as dead, the entire point of revealing the location of Lua

[molten crystal]

After he got ditched a second time due to them

[fossil fractal]

even at the earliest stage he still hated them

[molten crystal]

So what was all that about him brainwashing Lotus

[supple dagger]

Natah specifically is why the kids are alive

[fossil fractal]

wasnt one of his first lines ever "they're devils from that hell not human anymore"

[supple dagger]

Cause he wanted Margulis 2.0 that he could control

But then she wanted kids

[molten crystal]

Then why'd Lotus say that it was the makers who made her care for the Tenno, not any genuine sympathy

During Ropalolyst

[fossil fractal]

natah said that

she also says in orphix venom that she was a puppet

[molten crystal]

Yeah, but why

Why would the maker (Ballas) want her to love the Tenno?

[fossil fractal]

so the whole prelude to war thing felt less like it was natah herself speaking but moreso her family

[molten crystal]

If he himself hated them

[supple dagger]

Because they did. Ballas remaking her is what allowed the initial seeds of care

Natah purpose was just to use the Tenno and then kill them

[fossil fractal]

what i think is that they exploited the part of natah who wanted kids to make her love the tenno

so basically until the end of tnw shes never been able to make her own choice of who she wants to be

[supple dagger]

It's becoming the Lotus that made his sadness from being barren take hold

She came to love the Tenno on her own

[fossil fractal]

thats what the whole new war thing went to say

[supple dagger]

All Ballas did was make her into Margulis. Loving the Tenno was just a consequence of that

[fossil fractal]

oh thats a cool way to look at it

i do wonder if lotus/natah and erra are somehow like immune to the void because erra just tanked a void beam and lotus survived lua

[supple dagger]

Erra is not

[fossil fractal]

maybe like only erra's core survived or something

like the bare minimum to stay "alive"

[supple dagger]

And Lotus was deep enough in Lua to be insulated

[subtle crown]

They are not immune to it. But it's not like "a slight touch and they die".

[supple dagger]

We have no idea how Erra survived, since Lotus is flat out sure we blew him to bits

[subtle crown]

As we saw in octavias anthem the sentients while in the void and with shields took constant damage as if they were in low-medium strength acid.

[fossil fractal]

so they have like a higher resistance than other sentients then? do the "royal" ones have more resistance

[supple dagger]

Erra has no resistance

[subtle crown]

Being sentient they cannot.

[supple dagger]

His survival is a complete unknown

[subtle crown]

For all we know Erra survival is his purpose similar to how Natah is a spy.

[supple dagger]

Erra is mainly their head research and development

[subtle crown]

Natah works in the shadows, Hunhow grabs everyones attention, Erra does his thing manipulating leaders and being a weaponsmith.

[fossil fractal]

only way i can think of is if like erra's core survived somehow and lotus didnt notice

so lore-wise are all the other tenno "awakened" like we are so at least able to use transcendence

[subtle crown]

Maybe. All tenno will go through the process of transcendence > transference. But how Tenno who aren't us gain the first step is unknown.

[fossil fractal]

transcendence would be easy in that lotus could just direct them to taking their bodies to the somatic link in their orbiter

the war within's upgraded transference would be harder since teshin would have to like unlock their memories or something

[subtle crown]

Yeah, by this point it would basically be a pamphlet.

Yeah, with the snow mountain where Teshin revealed just how much he has lied to us being a sort of "dreamscape" other Tenno could go through it without needing to be threatened by the queen.

[fossil fractal]

maybe our operator could just host a course or something

imagine them getting a message in their inbox "FACING PAST TRAUMA: UNLOCKING YOUR TRUE POWERS (FEATURING ME FROM ANOTHER TIMELINE)"

[subtle crown]

Unlocking Tenno powers: Because it wasn't traumatic enough the first time.

[fossil fractal]

id still like it if that cutscene in tnw the classroom one showed friends and/or people you play with most as the other students

[zenith jacinth]

That'd probably be a lot of work

[fossil fractal]

just yoink the models

voicelines would technically be easier since youre just using pre-existing va right

[subtle crown]

It would basically just be the hair colours going from natural to "bleached to hell and back then put colour on 3 weeks ago"

[fossil fractal]

then heres the issue though

what if you only played solo and the only time you played with a friend they havent beat tsd

im thinking they would just remain hooded

[subtle crown]

Or like now, set placeholder models.

[fossil fractal]

yeah that would be cool too

so assuming ordis is unique to us then will we ever see any other tenno's cephalon

[subtle crown]

That's a heavy assumption there.

[fossil fractal]

yeah hence the "assuming"

[cyan crest]

so many things would be simpler if DE just put some tenno npcs here and there

[subtle crown]

It really would.

[fossil fractal]

would be cool gameplay-wise if there was a story quest that had multiple tenno but then story-wise it wouldnt really make sense

[subtle crown]

Why wouldn't it make sense?

[fossil fractal]

like they all just say "no I killed the worm queen

[subtle crown]

Why?

They could simply tell us "I was busy on X planet while you were dealing with the queens".

[fossil fractal]

oh yeah that would work i guess

[subtle crown]

Tenno NPCs aren't our Tenno.

While there are many quests all Tenno can go through, some are our personal Tenno only.

[fossil fractal]

i mean other players

forgot to specify

[subtle crown]

Then they aren't NPCs.

And we're right back to whatever headcanon each player uses.

[fossil fractal]

i think it would just be easier to leave it as is

[subtle crown]

Yup.

It's just making things way more complicated than they ever need to be.

Especially when the other Tenno we have seen all have set customisations.

[cyan crest]

Idk, I just think that making tenno npcs helps us feel like we're not the only one that's doing stuff
I mean actual npcs, not other players, just have some be there and show up sometimes

[fossil fractal]

would be cool

[turbid pier]

Why did the crystal things from the Archons heal lotus/natah/margulis?

[fossil fractal]

theyre built to do that

bring things back

[turbid pier]

I see

[cyan crest]

They also give people a ton of power, seeing as how op Ballas came when absorbing the last one

[fossil fractal]

someone in the wiki comments said why didnt ballas give the "sentient core he had" to the final archon to superpower it

[subtle crown]

Probably because they're an idiot.

The sentient core Ballas had came from the 3rd Archon.

[fossil fractal]

oh good im not going insane

this is what they said

[subtle crown]

Yeah, that sentient core he stole from us came from the last archon.

[fossil fractal]

so theyre just dumb

[subtle crown]

So good news, Ballas literally did give that core to the last archon 😄

[fossil fractal]

nice

im so happy for the archon

i kinda want a archon shard accessory but at the same time do i?

[subtle crown]

If it's an accessory it would just be a generic crystal necklace you can buy at any tourist trap location.

[fossil fractal]

shame there arent any of those

except i guess nakak

[subtle crown]

Like this for Amar if it was clearer.

[fossil fractal]

i was envisioning it going through the neck like it did on nira

but the idea of a necklace is like 20x funnier

[swift pond]

This made me realise we were literally going out to buy our mom healing crystals the entire quest.

[subtle crown]

What is this buy? We went out to fight mob enforcers to get magic healing crystals.

[swift pond]

Purchased with blood, you see.

[fossil fractal]

my fav currency

after ducats

[cyan crest]

I wonder if Ducats were an actual orokin currency or Baro's just a scammer

[subtle crown]

Little of column A, little of column B.

[swift pond]

I forget which, but at least one of his Prismas is identical to the base weapon stat-wise but painted blue. Definitely the latter.

[subtle crown]

Oh, the prisma angstrum. Same damage per shot but all the other stats are higher.

[frail nymph]

Apparently they wanted to release Rising tide at the same time as Tennocon... So that would mean Empyrean was delayed by 5 months...

No wonder there was no way to release New War before covid started, even if it was just until Act 1 of what we have now

[subtle crown]

Yup.

It cannot be understated just how much work had to go before duviri.

Only Deimos wasn't a pre-requisite.

[frail nymph]

Not to mention they released most of their 2019 New War work in the form of sentient anomalies... Instead of first coming out in New War itself

I almost get how people end up assuming our current New War had too little new content compared to the delay

[subtle crown]

Well, that and the fact the devs said multiple on multiple social media platforms that the new war is story only with cosmetic rewards. content comes after.

But reading is hard.

[frail nymph]

Hehe yeah

[subtle crown]

Remember that new war was mentioned as an off hand "yeah we have to get this done before duviri".

[frail nymph]

I still can't stop thinking about how different it would be if Act 1 lasted a year with regular New War content before Act 2 moved it into Duviri or something

[subtle crown]

The multiple acts wouldn't be compatible with the 2019 plan.

It was almost assuredly tied to the railjack where we go on an excursion and 20 minutes after starting the quest we're on duviri.

[frail nymph]

Yup even Geoff was like, "did we really put Duviri on the 2019 whiteboard" and Steve explained that Duviri was only there because they would technically begin to work on it that year

[subtle crown]

Then new war got a massive overhaul and became this huge thing.

And yeah. starting work on a void open world could absolutely be done. They literally did it with Deimos.

[frail nymph]

But what about the whole "belly of the beast" concept art and that general design direction for the tileset?

The only way we end up in Duviri while also being inside Praghasa is through similar events to Act 1

[subtle crown]

To google

[frail nymph]

Yeah they did finish the Dax, horse, Drifter models and even a big chunk of the map by Tennocon.

[subtle crown]

Yeah, the "belly of the beast" is only bringing up results that go between "helminth mouth funny" to "rule 34"

[frail nymph]

Lol I just called it that cause I remembered Steve saying it in a Devstream

What I meant is that the sentient tileset was originally supposed to released as being inside Praghasa directly in the NW quest, instead of random floating derelicts.

[subtle crown]

Oh, the murex tileset.

I can only assume it was before it was used for scarlet spear.

[frail nymph]

Yeah, it ended up as the murex tileset because New War got delayed. When they show it off in 2019, they showed it as being inside the mothership

[subtle crown]

Positive note, the murex tileset is probably what Praghasa looks like on the inside.

[frail nymph]

Yeah... That tileset was literally designed to be Praghasa's inside and was repurposed for Murex...
Even in the released quest, both times we enter Praghasa, only a handful of rooms are different from murex rooms

[subtle crown]

Also, lets be real for a sec. Not a chance the tileset would stay Praghasa exclusive.

[frail nymph]

Yup was about to say that

I'm wondering what else we'll see from it because it's too much work to stop here

[subtle crown]

Some things I could absolutely see being "single use".

[fossil fractal]

im still really wishing for an operator void melee

its a dumb idea but it would look sick

[subtle crown]

From memory we have the custom moon tileset from war within quest and Inaros custom outdoor area.

[subtle crown]

That is literally void blast.

Same code, same melee bugs and all.

[fossil fractal]

void blast gonna go meet my dead lich on 27th april

[frail nymph]

He means something like Drifter Rumblejack but better

[fossil fractal]

i was envisioning something like energy weapon

[subtle crown]

At which point just give us the ability to equip single daggers.

[fossil fractal]

defeats the whole "void" theme of operator

but hey as long as the child gets to slice things im not complaining

[subtle crown]

They slice with void beam.

[fossil fractal]

oh nvm

i thought you meant void blast

but i mean like actual slice and not just beam

[subtle crown]

Their void powers without an amp is basically void blast or void beam. To make an energy dagger you would basically need to create a real dagger that you can infuse with void energy.

[frail nymph]

Basically dagger version of Sirocco

Although Sirocco doesn't need recharging

[subtle crown]

Which means it's one step up from the bottom.

[frail nymph]

Also whatever happened to modular archwing? I know it's on Hiatus but hopefully it doesn't get shelved permanently

[subtle crown]

Probably because archwings are all about their abilities and what their actual stats are is largely irrelevant.

If you have an Amesha built you hope it doesn't get deconstructed or at least your forma is refunded.

[frail nymph]

But they were very close to being ready already... Why not just release it when there's time?

[subtle crown]

Amesha abilities, base sprint speed, the rest doesn't matter.

when did they say they were close?

[frail nymph]

I think Quietshy or someone asked them for an update on the Devstream and one of the Devs said his department was done working on it and asked another Dev why it's not released

The other Dev had no idea it was done

Cause priorities

[subtle crown]

If it’s the asset department it being done doesn’t mean all too much sadly.

Like the railjack guns. They’re all on the balancing team. Probably another dozen or so models still on the files.

Or like how Geoff said that the prime trailers were done before he writes the scripts.

The art team at DE are top notch.

I'm trying to find the stream that was Reb and Pablo talking about Nezha Deluze and Pablo casually does more than half of it in an hour live on stream.

[frail nymph]

Oh yeah

I remember a stream where he was being modelled

[subtle crown]

Yup. That is the talent working at DE.

[frail nymph]

Although sculpting is a lot faster than the other steps... Scott was talking about it took a bunch of on-paper iterations for Equinox deluxe.

[subtle crown]

Devstream 105.

[void vapor]

Kudos to whoever named the challenge to take a Kubrow on 10 missions: "Tenno and Hooch". Now Ordis's comments about it messing up his interior makes even more sense.

[frail nymph]

Update: this was actually regarding reworked Grineer minibosses Sprag and Venkra.

In that case, all I know about modular archwings is that it was WIP in 2019.

And this for march 2020

[subtle crown]

All those 3d models ready for the balancing team to realise that the abilities are all that matters and have no idea what to do.

[frail nymph]

What? No.
The current state of AW is the whole point behind the rework.

It's a complete rework of Archwing from the ground up.

There will be no more regular archwings when it's out

[subtle crown]

Yes, at which point we figure out what is the closest to the Amesha and the rest is left in the dirt.

[craggy drum]

Yup lol

[frail nymph]

If they don't rework anything, then sure.

But that's the point, they are reworking it. Amesha was a point of discussion in the devstream.

[subtle crown]

It's pretty hard to beat 2 forms of godmode, giant AoE slow, crazy energy regen, status immunity and aggro control.

The ability rework of modular archwing is the only thing people will care about.

Oh, I forgot that the devs said they wanted to convert archwing missions into railjack missions.

[frail nymph]

Taking bets: how hard will it be to kill a Void Angel?
-The Sergeant
-Kuva Lich
-SP Zealoid Prelate
-Hydrolist

[fossil fractal]

im kinda hoping its lich lich seems a level im comfortable with

but hey if its hard i can always upgrade my better amo

[cyan crest]

I vote Sergeant or Teralyst at most

[frail nymph]

I hope it's more mechanic based than dps... Like for example you need to kill it with void beam but doing it at the wrong timing/wrong conditions will just heal it or something

[fossil fractal]

yeah that would be cool

since the devs seem to be on a roll with fun boss imo with archon

[frail nymph]

What exactly were the Nira Mechanics? I never understood

Like you have to not get frozen but that's all I know

Didn't hunhow say something about her exerting herself too much?

[subtle crown]

Not get frozen is basically it. She also has bad invisibility that you can either use the radar to reveal her or just keep attacking anyway as you can still clearly see them.

[fossil fractal]

idk better than some other bosses like lech kril or vay hek imo

[subtle crown]

Oh yeah.

[cyan crest]

I like the idea behind Kril's battle but the execution could be... Uhm, better

[fossil fractal]

wonder if there will be a sp zariman

[subtle crown]

Kril at least has some fun ways to kill him.

Prior to Octavia I would bring a high status weapon, keep a rad proc on him and the grineer would kill him for me.

[craggy drum]

It was asked during the last Prime Time and yes, the Zariman will have Steel Path nodes

[fossil fractal]

nice

im not up to date with dev stream

[subtle crown]

Steel path operator heavy missions in the same patch they kill the steel path build i_i

[frail nymph]

Steel path build is dead?

[subtle crown]

Yup. No void blast.

[frail nymph]

which?

what's it for?

[subtle crown]

There was a bug with X4X amp and void blast where using the amp was like void blasting on every bounce.

Combined with arcanes you would proc your school void blast ability.

Some ran zenurik for AoE slow, others ran uniaru for mass wisps for more damage.

[knotty panther]

i cant wait to see my hildryn build mk2 its going to be fun floping but hopefully a better over shield stamina so it works

[subtle crown]

Speaking of Hildryn, it will be interesting if the zenurik "free ability cast" works on channeled abilities.

[supple dagger]

That at best would only stop the initial cost of casting

[craggy drum]

Probably just be the initial casting cost and any channeling drain will work as normal

[knotty panther]

good point it may save her in a moment of need ive been using healing alot on hildryn static conduit via zenurik could cause electric discharge maybe
but channeling logic the old dispatch overdrive for melee hildryn was a hoot

[rain prawn]

i imagine around the tankiness of a rank 80+ demo-unit

[trim tree]

Which build is this?

[subtle crown]

Amesha.

1. Little drones absorb incoming bullets
2. Aggro control + healing
3. Status immunity + slow
4. Incoming damage is converted to energy, when not at max energy you get godmode.

The godmode on 4 is super easy to keep up since Amesha 3 is a channelled ability and constantly drains energy.

[trim tree]

Ow cool

Been using Itzal all this time

[subtle crown]

It's why it is basically the default archwing. Especially after Itzal lost blink.

Though some people do use Itzal for the loot suck ability.

[trim tree]

Yeh that’s useful for bosses

Maybe Amesha for rj

[subtle crown]

Oh and Ameshas polarities means she can be a no forma build without the primed mod, or a 1 forma build with it.

[trim tree]

Was trying to level elytron for rj

Really gotta farm more aw mods lol.

I’m not familiar with half of these

[subtle crown]

Yeah, getting the mods in the first place is the hard part of the system.

[rain prawn]

i know that the new war isn't supposed to be extremly hard at phase 3, but i spent so much time beefing my necromech and archwing. only to find out that i dont ever use the archwing for the war, and enemies felt like they were no more than level 30

[subtle crown]

System reroute = efficency
Morphic transformer = strength
Energy amplifier = range
Efficent transferal = duration.

Enemies cap at 20.

[trim tree]

Also since theyre combing multiple modes in nodes they should change loadout behavior. Changing your AW and Mech everytime sucks

[fossil fractal]

do you feel the POWER?

[subtle crown]

Honestly, I wish they went railjack/archwing. The necramech was actively slower at killing enemies than my drifter.

And mine is fully maxed out.

[fossil fractal]

probably because mech s l o w

[rain prawn]

not much power to feel if all thats thrown at you is level 20 weaklings

[fossil fractal]

idk i felt POWER after the whole drifter segment since i went from using basically normal human to large mech

[subtle crown]

The mech is slow and none of the weapons are really designed for dealing with a slow trickle of enemies without the freedom of movement that is archwing.

Forget about voidrig 4.

[fossil fractal]

mech gameplay feels very fun for me because i feel like a literal tank

[trim tree]

Can’t remember properly but is the drifter more agile and smoother to play vs the operator?

[subtle crown]

So, almost the exact same movement.

[trim tree]

Or is it just perception

[fossil fractal]

just the roll, i think 3 roll is 4 slide

[subtle crown]

They have the same base movespeed. Then the 2 roll is 3 slide. But the 3 slides are faster.

[fossil fractal]

oh ok

[trim tree]

Ah

Might be the lack of comparison with the frame

[subtle crown]

The drifter having operator movement speed they can really feel like they're wading through molasses.

[trim tree]

Now going from frame to operator feels clunky. But in NW it didn’t because no frame

[subtle crown]

But it's nice to finally have good outfits instead of the travesty that is operator fashion.

[fossil fractal]

idk i like the bishamo stuff

[spark herald]

Drifter also has a buggy void blast for now.

[subtle crown]

How is it buggy?

[spark herald]

If you use it in air, game gets confused with slam attacks and does a double blast when you land.

[subtle crown]

Aah.

[trim tree]

It might be just me but I completely forgot that we have a void blast ability. Lol I was using dash to disarm kuva

Was wondering what was being removed

[subtle crown]

Yeah, kuva might be a tad rough post update.

[gaunt rover]

Basically all non-basic offensive void abilities are just being yoinked if I remember right, which is kinda rude, honestly. I do wish Nakak’s Operator masks worked with the Drifter, though, or that he got some kind of Ostron thing. We need more Drifter fashion.

[errant charm]

I will say being able to drop the energy regen field without dashing will be nice.

[thick jolt]

And making it larger and give a bit of strength

[frail nymph]

https://mobile.twitter.com/sj_sinclair/status/1035662678147166208
Anyone read this?

Apparently Operator was gone for 4000+ days before Drifter came and found Ordis, at least in the 2018 version of a proto-script during New War events...

Ignore the 11 million seconds, Someone pointed out it's not even half a year in replies and Steve realised he messed up.

Steve Sinclair (@sj_sinclair)

spoiler warning 1 more internal doc thing! Outline (half) for Ordis-themed side-quest I want to do!

This would be refined until solid. Then full 'recording' script, targeting maybe 15 pages. War Within/Sacrifice was closer to 40, screenplay format.

https://t.co/eKP6EC7tVX

Likes

741

Twitter · Aug 31, 2018, 10:56 PM

Nevermind, this must be pre-game (awakening) Ordis

[wicked iron]

I would love an Ordis mini-quest!

[supple dagger]

what was the quest that changed ordis to call us "star child" and are the quotes somewhere?

[craggy drum]

That was during The Sacrifice after we install the Vitruvian into the ship

It’ll be in here

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/The_Sacrifice/Transcript

[supple dagger]

huh, i remember ordis sounding a bit more like Cy, thanks either way

[old cairn]

Hey is it normal for the narmer bounties to be only doable once then never available?

Or is it like they're available at certain parts of the day?

[supple dagger]

Narmer Bounties are variations of Cetus and Fortuna field bounties, with all enemies replaced by their Narmer counterparts. They are available after completion of The New War on the Plains of Eidolon's day cycle and on Orb Vallis during the Plain's night cycle.

[molten crystal]

So basically Ordis would've had a Codsworth moment "You are 4000 days late for dinner"

[spring yew]

It has been done... well I'm late seeing this but damn... We need a Kahl Everything. Hell make him a warframe.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RGNLuxsOKI0

[swift pond]

Playable Grineer and Corpus game modes. Do it, you won't.

Can't just give us both and leave it at 5-10 minute segments of a several hour long quest.

[fossil fractal]

someone wanted that as a conclave thing

[subtle crown]

Yup. Especially given DE history with unreal tournament it could be a great method to revitalise conclave.

No more bouncing around like rabbits on industrial grade stimulants.

[fossil fractal]

i would like it if they kept it but with a mirror-match like thing

or i heard in the old days they had stamina maybe they could bring that back for one conclave gamemode?

[subtle crown]

Basically, anything to get bullet jumping out of conclave.

[fossil fractal]

yeep xD

[subtle crown]

Like between updates 11 and 17.

[fossil fractal]

or at least add stamina so you cant spam the hell outta it and can only use it t a c t i c a l l y

would be fun i guess

[subtle crown]

Update 17 slaughtered conclave.

[fossil fractal]

what did 17 do?

[subtle crown]

Parkour update.

[fossil fractal]

best part to think about is in the 7.9 billion people theres someone who could hit a headshot on a bullet jumping tenno with a sniper while theyre mid-bullet jump too

[subtle crown]

Changed conclave from reasonably popular ability shooter into what it is today.

[fossil fractal]

i tried lunaro this one time with some random dude

[subtle crown]

There is like 3 of those. If you want to play conclave prepare to be the 4th or only play in private groups.

[fossil fractal]

really? thats some damn good aim

at least for me because my aim is horrendous

[subtle crown]

Welcome to what conclave is like today. Though instead it’s assault rifles while both upside down, mid bullet jump headshots. That is when melee doesn’t have some room clearing bug.

Ability shooter that many could jump into, to that.

[fossil fractal]

im gonna stick to doing dumb stuff with my friend in conclave

[subtle crown]

Hence “grineer vs corpus” conclave mode being viewed neutral to positive addition by many.

[fossil fractal]

one time i tried lunaro with a random dude and he did this thing where he bullet jumped and threw the ball so i had no clue how to counter that so that was annoying as hell

also unrelated but i was hoping thered be like an operator vs operator mode or something where everyones got no upgrades or amps or anything

[subtle crown]

If operator schools were fleshed out more it could be fun.

[fossil fractal]

thered be that one focus school that would do something to make it unfair in pvp so imo it would be better if it was just plain old no focus upgrades or amps

[subtle crown]

The base is there. Uniaru tank, vazarin heal, Madurai brawler, naramon assassin, zenurik debuffs.

[fossil fractal]

i guess yeah

[subtle crown]

Though with the update uniaru is tank/debuff and zenurik is more CC.

[fossil fractal]

was naramon the thing of "flow with the enemy" i forgot

[fossil fractal]

vazarin is the flow with the enemy? i wish they did that more

[subtle crown]

They will post update.

Their shields are getting the snowglobe treatment where for 4 seconds they absorb incoming damage to add to the strength.

[fossil fractal]

i was kinda imagining something like baruuk's 1 but i realize how hard that would be to implement

[subtle crown]

Especially when vazarin can give allies godmode.

[fossil fractal]

would be cooler i guess if at least visually you have that dodge looking thing

[subtle crown]

Yeah, the schools we have today don't really line up with what is written.

[fossil fractal]

so if theyre gonna change the tutorial stuff in war within will they change lore to match up with new war?

[subtle crown]

?

[fossil fractal]

corrected myself sorry xD

[zenith jacinth]

Madurai still not gonna be speedy

[subtle crown]

I still have no idea what you mean.

Madurai speeds up eidolon hunting at least?

[fossil fractal]

like they say about mother and father but in new war you do the jump in the classroom

[zenith jacinth]

I guess

[subtle crown]

The kids were in the void for days. Both can easily happen. Especially since those 8 days were time passing outside the void.

[fossil fractal]

so then did something along the lines of operator go back to their room, say hi to their mother and father, mother and father get mad, then they reunite with the other kids, then they either built prison or hunted them down right

[subtle crown]

Don't forget the Rell comic.

Not everyone stayed in the classroom.

[spring yew]

Pretty sure what happened was the adults were trapped outside the classroom and got corrupted. The options you could make were to either kill them. Have hope for them or just acceptance.

[fossil fractal]

oh i forgot that existed

[subtle crown]

All the kids in the classroom post jump were between "comatose" or "scared out of their minds".

[spring yew]

And I just said something everyone already knew.... o.o

[subtle crown]

The adults going mad wasn't instant. It was a build up.

[fossil fractal]

only way i can think everything aligns is the parents got insane at different points in time

[spring yew]

So I'm guessing there is more to this story than what the missions tell me

[subtle crown]

We were told it was basically that.

[cyan crest]

I mean, when you go back to the second flashback adults are already mad
Which was a gradual process, so there's some time between the 2 flashbacks, where the stuff in War within can have happened

[fossil fractal]

so the operator could have left and re entered the room for the second flashback?

[cyan crest]

Yes

And then barricaded the classroom and that stuff we see them do

[zenith jacinth]

"Let's not do that again."

[subtle crown]

I still love that the Rell comic opens with adults being ejected into space.

[fossil fractal]

that would explain why they thought to barricade them up

[subtle crown]

Yup.

[fossil fractal]

ill read the rell comic right now before i forget

[subtle crown]

There were "hunting groups, helper groups, and being helped groups".

[spring yew]

So with the new mass update will the choices we make even matter?

[subtle crown]

https://web.archive.org/web/20220117132938/https://www.warframe.com/chains-of-harrow-comic

[cyan crest]

I like the guys that built makeshift prisons
It didn't mean anything at the end but at least they tried

[fossil fractal]

im liking rell more and more

oh its over already?

[zenith jacinth]

It short

[cyan crest]

Lmao how did I not notice that

[fossil fractal]

so i take it rell mastered his powers instantly?

[subtle crown]

No.

But the kids did get void beam pretty much straight away.

[cyan crest]

He knew how to beam
Which we all knew
So uhm, no

[subtle crown]

The exact same way we did in game.

[fossil fractal]

oh thats a shame

[subtle crown]

"Mother takes your hand and says there's been an accident. But don't worry, angel, you're safe with me. Her eyes are distant, unfocused..."

[cyan crest]

She's lying

[fossil fractal]

so then a little after she goes insane and tries to kill you?

[subtle crown]

"The biomes had been sabotaged. The food stocks dwindled. Paranoia gripped your father's mind. What was it he said - as he stared out into the starless black?"

[cyan crest]

According to us, other adults killed her

They teared her apart, I think we say

[fossil fractal]

so then he said that before the jump?

[subtle crown]

this is all after the jump.

[cyan crest]

Some thing's out there kiddo
Watching us

[subtle crown]

The war within tells us that the adults gradually went crazy. It was not an instant thing.

[fossil fractal]

but the void isnt black

or is it another bit of void or something

[subtle crown]

Did you not look out the window in the new war? It was really black.

[fossil fractal]

looked blue-ish to me

[cyan crest]

The Rell comic shows the same, a very black... well, void

[subtle crown]

Yup. The void of space and "the void" are 2 distinct things.

[fossil fractal]

yeah so does void just look like various things at the same time or something

[cyan crest]

But the Rell comic shows "the void", right? Just in it's starless black uhm appearence

[subtle crown]

Also, this is the classroom post void jump. time has clearly progressed and the classroom is a "stronghold".

[cyan crest]

Enough time for them to set up hammocks

[fossil fractal]

so then man in wall didnt grant them powers on the handshake, he just freed them from void

[cyan crest]

What

No, he did grant them powers on the handshake

[subtle crown]

Much like real life not everyone would be gung ho about going out. Hence the hunting group, the hugbox group, and the logistics group.

[fossil fractal]

so then did rell comic take place after shake

[subtle crown]

Rell comic is post handshake. Which we saw in new war was at least a couple days after the jump.

[fossil fractal]

o h

[cyan crest]

Kids would need the powers to be able to hunt the adults
That or the Moon operator is really Teen Rambo

[frail nymph]

The insant amount of times this has happened to me is... well, insane

[fossil fractal]

seems to be more common than i thought xD

so then after they gain their void powers they make the choice in war within about hunting or makeshift prison

[subtle crown]

Remember that the classroom went from pristine to this in the time between the 2 cutscenes.

From the outside looking in the kids were in the void for a bit over a week.

From inside the void who knows how long.

[fossil fractal]

so then why exactly did operator show up in place of drifter when we saw handshake? i wanna properly understand is it like due to non linear time or something

[subtle crown]

There is a lot of time for things to happen. It's why many events slot in so nicely.

We as the operator gave drifter their powers.

Us being "same person, 2 individuals" and all.

Wally said "save them, save all of them" and then we altered the deal so that "alternate us" was also saved. Then it worked.

[cyan crest]

Apparently when Natah did her wible woble we came back and gave drifter their powers on the way
Somehow
It seems to me to be what heppened

[subtle crown]

That was also the point a bunch of us died as well, so win some and lose some.

[fossil fractal]

bit of a shame

would have liked to meet more of me

[frail nymph]

I see two possible options...

1. We were reliving Drifter's timeline of the events, which might explain the late powers
2. The parents didn't go mad all at once, and your parents went mad after the deal scene. Although this doesn't explain the , "mother says there's been an accident."

[subtle crown]

the parents didn't go mad all at once.