spoiler-chat

[supple dagger]

Corrupted do not care about anything unless you're in the tower

[weak finch]

Rifts

[cyan crest]

No way someone outside the hivemind would in any way try to cooperate with them
Alad is stupid so he doesn't count

[fleet veldt]

Then again, Ballas could have the Neural Sentry remote-linking to Narmer units via a bunch of obscure waypoints out in the black which allows them to coordinate as they do.

[zenith jacinth]

Is it possible to take off the corrupted's masks btw?

[winter plinth]

🔥

[cyan crest]

Ballas is dead

[fleet veldt]

No(?).

[winter plinth]

Natah is best choice

[zenith jacinth]

That is your opinion

[fleet veldt]

Even with Ballas slain, it's like a hydra or creature that will keep going even without the coordinating element. Otherwise Narmer would've shut down immediately without Ballas around.

[cyan crest]

Good
No reason or known way to try cooperate with the corrupted

[zenith jacinth]

A roach seems more fitting for that

[winter plinth]

Well Margulis just straight up makes no sense so that's 1 third gone already

[supple dagger]

Fair enough. It's more proper to say that they aren't a fashion that can be allied with. Either you're corrupted and fine, or you're not and need to die

[winter plinth]

And it just feels like a cop out imo after all that to go back to lotus, back to the status quo

[weak finch]

I fully believe the hive mind is powerful enough to take over a mask and broadcast into others, against their will

[cyan crest]

It makes sense, remember she is the one choosing who she is gonna be

[winter plinth]

Margulis is a real person who is dead now, why should lotus roleplay her?

[zenith jacinth]

Remember that she goes back to lotus pretty much right after defeating ballas

[supple dagger]

It's more about them not having any way to screw with anything Orokin without him

[cyan crest]

Being disrespectful doesn't mean she isn't making sense

[fleet veldt]

Margulis is a Narmer vision seen from the view of Ballas. To me, any who pick her are Narmer sympathisers. Regardless of opinion or reasoning, at least at this moment.

Lotus is a gestalt of the voices - or she just prefers to keep the name she's been using the most as of recent.

Natah is a revert-to-start which essentially could lead to more lapses and confusion if she gets to chat with her kin.

In my case, she continues to be Lotus, but has reverted to her Natah form.

[weak finch]

Her reasoning was to bring peace to Tenno, and help them relax

[supple dagger]

Margulis was also the tool to use and abuse the Lotus, so

[winter plinth]

I think after all that we shouldnt need to rely on her anymore

[cyan crest]

Wow that Margulis Narmer thing is the reachest reach I've ever seen

[zenith jacinth]

Narmer had a cool song

[winter plinth]

Natah is her true identity that the orokin and Ballas tried to force her to forgo

[winter plinth]

Not as good as we all lift

[supple dagger]

Natah having member issues was because of Ballas and Erra gaslighting her. The skin itself would be fine

[winter plinth]

Don't think they're ever gonna top that

[cyan crest]

Sleeping in the cold below is better

[zenith jacinth]

That's true.
It's better

[runic schooner]

the void ship is going to be quest locked just like lua right

[winter plinth]

Nah

[cyan crest]

Right

[fleet veldt]

Z10-0 will be quest-locked, like with how Kuva Fort was.

[runic schooner]

ah right zariman

keep forgetting it

[zenith jacinth]

Zariman ten-o

[winter plinth]

Player housing, I'm gonna put nihil in there by himself and never enter it, it'll be his lil house

[cyan crest]

Put 5 domestic drones too in case he's dirty

[zenith jacinth]

Good idea.
I'll bury him under my floof pile

[winter plinth]

I hope none of them accidentally knock him over and unleash him back into this mortal coil

[cyan crest]

They're roombas not cats

[winter plinth]

That's why I said accidentally

With a cat it would be intentional

[vital owl]

Well the Kavats might knock him over

[cinder steppe]

Wait they did conquer Eris? I thought they left Eris alone as well.

[cyan crest]

Eris was Narmer last time I played the quest

[subtle crown]

there were no nodes on eris.

[cinder steppe]

Which makes sense to me because Eris has been nothing but a "just dump sick people there" kind of place for years

I thought I checked and saw no Sentient ship there. Can remember it wrong tho

[subtle crown]

Yeah, the sentients aren't too fond of the infestation. They're immune to being corrupted but they still hurt.

So, there was a narmer outline around the planet but unlike all other planets there were no narmer nodes.

[cyan crest]

There weren't?

Mmm
I need to replay the quest

[cinder steppe]

There's also not really a lot of benefit for them to own Eris

[subtle crown]

Used to have a screenshot in the old spoilers channel. It came up so often.

[cinder steppe]

Because again, it's nothing but a dump for people that get infected and they need to prevent the infestation to spread

[subtle crown]

Yeah, no narmer infested. Even the neural sentry in the void only the ancients with defined heads become the corrupted.

Eris planet surface is completely lost to the infestation. We found that out with Arlo. Infested ships are moved into Eris orbit and left there.

[cyan crest]

It doesn't seem infested from orbit, unlike Deimos

[subtle crown]

Deimos is a moon.

[cyan crest]

And Eris is a planetoid

[subtle crown]

Plus it has been infested for a couple centuries.

[cinder steppe]

And we en it comes to Deimos, there's certainly the benefit of taking Deimos because the Entrati. But it's just way too dangerous there.

[subtle crown]

Eris infestation is a super recent thing timeline wise.

20 years tops.

[cyan crest]

There doesn't seem to be anything on Eris from orbit tbh
At least with Ceres we have a cool surface, Eris is just... Nothing

[cinder steppe]

I mean in a Devstream when they first talked about Deimos and showed the concept art, Steve said that he wanted us to use our Railjack to navigate the infested mass to get to the surface because it was supposed to be so dense and difficult to get there

Unfortunate that it's scrapped

Would've been cool tbh

I'm not sure if I remember correctly, but we did land on Deimos with Archwing in the beginning of the quest right?

Just in the cutscene

[subtle crown]

There are no longer any active military or research campaigns in the Eris region – it is overrun. Long evacuated Corpus and Grineer vessels drift aimlessly in orbit, slowly being devoured by the techno-organic parasite known as the “Infestation”. What remains is a twisted graveyard of partially-digested ships that are disfigured versions of their original forms... Abandoned, but not unoccupied.
Eris Fragment

Well, these days it's mostly contained. Spores as old as stone. Derelicts drifting in forgotten orbits. So it was with old Kenga. Somehow exposed and promptly cast out. Woke up on a blessed cage-drop down to Eris.But, should some sad soul catch the grey-vein, well... every culture has its plague dogma. But maybe there's something more to this 'Infestation', something we all missed. Turns out... Kenga didn't find Void in that hell-nest, no. He found a survivor!
Emissary introduction from Nora Night

[simple python]

Things to think about... electric-focused guns will be really good with Gyre right? And Fulmin has some SP builds ready right?

[simple python]

Ol' Acorn Ordis. The one that got blasted by Eidolotus, that was drifter's ordis right? How did drifter get ahold of ordis anyway? Did he just find the abandoned orbiter and ordis with it?

[supple dagger]

No, that's still Operator Ordis

[craggy drum]

No that was our Ordis using a proxy body

Drifter doesn’t have their own Orbiter or Ordis.., they’ve been stuck in the Void up until now

[simple python]

Hmn... wait so there's just an abandoned orbiter that drifter hid out in during TNW: Drifter Act?

[supple dagger]

No, that's our Orbiter

[simple python]

So... our orbiter has been painstakingly moved to the earth's caves for?

For survival, yeah sure... but there's so many "stage props" just unexplained during TNW. Details like that are new to me despite having finished TNW.

stage props as a metaphor for the scene changes in a play.

[supple dagger]

might have been like a crash landing that became the temporal base of the drifter

still worked

[simple python]

Hmn... I think I remember that quote. After the "'choosing' your route" near the end with the food cubes, right? I assumed that that orbiter was still the one in orbit. Mainly because of the landing craft still engaged to the orbiter.

[fossil fractal]

from what i understood the orbiter has like half the thing still floating in space while the other half is down with us in the camp

[scarlet basalt]

Roleplay will be bigger once the Angels of zariman will drop.
And my point will stand and be proved

[fossil fractal]

so presumably the rear section is all the thrusters and the front is the thing with all the essential stuff

[fossil fractal]

wdym roleplay

[scarlet basalt]

Tenno will finally have their own "house" because instead,using dojo is very hard to do a good house because of lighting issues and limited constructions.
Orbiter doesn't work since it's,well a ship with weird things inside and... i doubt someone want to have an helminth inside their house.
"Housing" will be bigger and offer more roleplay idea which would be really funny time to time,tho i discovered that there was clans that was roleplaying a lot on warframe,building up their own lore accordingly with the warframe.
The only issues would be more emote with other people interactions but it could work lmao

[supple dagger]

if only the dojo had access to the stuff we have on the orbiter i'd stay there

[swift pond]

I'm just waiting for the MTV style tours of everyones Zariman houses

[scarlet basalt]

MTV ? oh yeah the channel lmaoo

[swift pond]

"Yo homies, welcome to my crib on the other side of this hellish outer dimension!" Things of that sort.

[fossil fractal]

sounds like fun

[scarlet basalt]

"Yeah,i brought up my parents for the tour,don't mind their wings 😄 "

[fossil fractal]

i would like it if we could just invite lotus to our apartment

have tea with lotus, drifter, and ordis

and umbra why the hell not

[scarlet basalt]

Ordis look like a garbage can ngl

[fossil fractal]

looks adorable anyways

i wanna hug him

[scarlet basalt]

my cute little garbage can

[velvet wing]

I wonder if seeing as Reb has the lotus skin she can put lotus on display in her orbiter

[fossil fractal]

probably

[scarlet basalt]

ngl margulis got some mad braids

[fossil fractal]

margulis has cool hair

[supple dagger]

tbh i thought umbra would at least take part on TNW considering how his quest developed

[scarlet basalt]

I guess they were pretty scared on what to do with umbra,because,with how powerful warframes are,this could have ended very quickly lol

imagining umbra to slap the hell out of ballas

[fossil fractal]

he couldnt

[supple dagger]

maybe duo boss hunting with driter and umbra

[fossil fractal]

ballas would just say STOP

[supple dagger]

yea he couldn't and the operator had to intervene

[scarlet basalt]

yeah this is true,tho now i wonder if it's really the case now

[fossil fractal]

but i will admit that umbra could ez the archons

[supple dagger]

maybe like a last moment clutch save when the operator is cornered

[fossil fractal]

as shown when you get your wf back

only way umbra i can imagine umbra being used against ballas would be him sacrificing himself

but now that ballas is dead maybe he can do more stuff

[supple dagger]

maybe sacrificing his sentience and becoming a hollow warframe

though that'd be sad af

[fossil fractal]

no like literally jumping in front of paracesis and dying

him becoming hollow does really nothing

hey since ballas is an amalgam does he get that void resistance thing

[torpid lantern]

Warframes all have sentience though, actually

[fossil fractal]

oh yeah that scene in tsd right

[torpid lantern]

They just have been inhibited from moving

[scarlet basalt]

Wait does amalgams don't get their void allergy ?

[fossil fractal]

read in the void patch notes amalgams have some void resistance

idk ill check more later

[torpid lantern]

Ballas wasn't a Sentient initially so he would have the same resistance as most people. Sentients are weak to the void, so the resistance Amalgams get is they are now only as weak to it as the host. Not SUPER weak

[fossil fractal]

oh ok

[torpid lantern]

It's kinda like pokemon. A grass pokemon is super weak to fire, but if you have a grass AND ground type pokemon, they are only slightly weak to fire.

[fossil fractal]

i think it would be a weirder ending to tnw if umbra sacrificed himself to stop ballas' paracesis and then tenno just blast him to a million pieces

then theres the whole murex to think about and player dont have a warframe

idk its just funny to think about

operator just gets angry and kills every sentient

[torpid lantern]

I wish Umbra had been in the quest as the main frame. I know a lot of people wanted to play their main but the Warframes didn't feature very often so Umbra would've been better

[fossil fractal]

yeah but like everyone else told me umbra would just be stopped by ballas

[past kiln]

just kill ballas 🧠

[dusky linden]

Big statue man

[torpid lantern]

He would've, but it's hard t imagine Umbra just sitting bavk on the ship thinking "okay, have fun" when the operator goes off to go kill Ballas.

[dusky linden]

after watching the logs about the weird name guy, forgot his name, how he made a portal to another system, and then shut it down once things started going wrong, i think is the small summary of it

then seeing the statue, that was super interesting

a bit more than a statue, mans was talking in .5 speed

[fossil fractal]

so at the end bit does ballas just kick the warframe into the void

[torpid lantern]

Albrecht is famous because without him, the Orokin wouldn't have any void technology. So there's statues and paintings everywhere of him. His story is so cool. Sounds like Lovecraft

[torpid lantern]

That's a good question actually... where DOES the Warframe go...

See if it was Umbra, he would've hands down followed the Operator

[dusky linden]

Yeah! Especially at the time when the orokin were trying to move onto other projects, and kinda gave up on him, watching his emotions change as the logs continue, I love his story

I hope we get more of him

[torpid lantern]

We definitely will! His story and MITW are linked so it'll have to come full circle some day

[zenith jacinth]

Possibly just thrown off the ship by ballas and scooped up by ordis/cy later

[zenith jacinth]

Same, just to hear that wonderful voice again

[dusky linden]

Yeah, MITW is interesting too, especially after watching the debunked stuff on the big statue man, from what I understand, the MITW is from another system, and has been contacting certain people to try and find him? That's from what I understand, I could be completely wrong

[torpid lantern]

Ballas: "Get this abomination out of my sight."
Erra: "Okay.."
Ballas: "And the warframe too."
Erra:

[dusky linden]

Ever since delving into the story of warframe, i've been impressed that this game is free, has better story than most games I've ever played

[zenith jacinth]

Yea

[zenith jacinth]

I feel like I have some kind of obsession with voices

[dusky linden]

I'm the same, love the voices of the characters

[supple dagger]

would be cool if DE made at least a little bit of dialogues with the operator for each one in this case

[zenith jacinth]

I looked up a few of my fav characters (voice-wise) in the wiki to take screenshots of who the VA of each is

[frail nymph]

Also when Drifter says "easy now" to your warframe

[torpid lantern]

It would! The operator dialogue is pretty outdated. It was added long before the reveal that Warframes are humans (though the game had lots of hints) and DE has definitely expressed that they want to update it.
I'll never forget the entire team cringing when someone said "my Warframe is strong" on the devstream when they were talking about the VAs. I think everyone in the whole twitch channel cringed with them

[supple dagger]

ah yeah i definitely disabled operator voice until TNW because of the cringe

[torpid lantern]

"Just like riding a horse". Which if you think about it, only makes sense if the Warframes are alive and need to be tamed to use like a horse would be. Yep!

[zenith jacinth]

My operator didn't say that line in a long time

[supple dagger]

i think they removed the random lines?

[zenith jacinth]

No

[torpid lantern]

Nope. My operator still talks

[zenith jacinth]

Drifter is silent

[supple dagger]

mine hasn't talked after oh

[frail nymph]

Well drifter said that before using a frame, and said "can't be as tough as riding a horse, can it?"

[supple dagger]

i use drifter
good

[zenith jacinth]

Which is another reason why I use operator

[torpid lantern]

Speaking of voices, I fangirled SO HARD when I noticed the difference between the Operator and the Drifter's dialect.
Anyone else catch that? The operator uses proper grammar like you'd expect from a kid with an educated upbringing. And the Drifter kinda talks like a cowboy

[zenith jacinth]

I still have yet to give my operator any backstory or personality

[dusky linden]

I like the drifter owl voice, for some reason the operator owl voice seems robotic to me, if its the same then its just a placebo effect but yeah

[zenith jacinth]

Definitely different

[craggy drum]

Another… System?

Wally is from the Void and we still don’t know exactly what he wants with the Tenno

[zenith jacinth]

Wally just wants to party hard, clearly

[torpid lantern]

I 100% agree. Owl makes me uncomfortable. And Heron always sounded deeper to me than Owl so I was really surprised with Drifter that Owl was the deeper voice

[supple dagger]

probably driter had to do stuff to self sustain on the zariman ship, though IF they stayed there all the time how did they keep themselves sane

[dusky linden]

Friend of mine was talking about another solar system or something, hes been playing the game for many years so I like talking to him about the game

[zenith jacinth]

He wrong there

[frail nymph]

Puberty is more than just growth spurts, evidently

[supple dagger]

void would could easily be another system tbh

[torpid lantern]

There is NO WAY those male op voices are pre puberty. Nah

[zenith jacinth]

They don't sound like post-puberty voices to me

[frail nymph]

Well the children weren't affected, and neither is Baro etc... The madness might be selective, especially since all the currently known madness was directly related to Wally

[craggy drum]

Nah it’s been well established that the Void is something else. You can use it to travel to another system. But it’s separate from realspace and doesn’t use the same known laws of physics and time

[raw coral]

как поменять почту если ты не помнишь от старой пароля а номера нету ,а играть в варфрейм хочется

[frail nymph]

Rebecca called it the space between space itself, for example

[supple dagger]

not exactly void insanity but being possibly alone there for years

[craggy drum]

Baro probably has a vessel capable of shielding him from the Void. Seeing as you kind of need that so you don’t go mad

[torpid lantern]

I've never heard a 10 year old with a deep man voice xD
And the operator is in their teens probably mid teens

[dusky linden]

Yeah, and my friend was talking about the attempt to use the void to travel to another system, and the entire project failing horribly

[supple dagger]

15-16ish

males sound like 18-20

[frail nymph]

You mean like Albrecht's Bell? Have all explorers been using stuff like that?

[zenith jacinth]

Male op voices seem very high pitched to me

[torpid lantern]

Hello! And welcome! This is an English-speaking server only.

Please use English here :)

Пожалуйста, говорите по-английски здесь.

[craggy drum]

Considering that exposure to the Void left him blind and mute yes it’s safe to assume so.

[torpid lantern]

I agree with that.

[wicked iron]

I think that was due to glass shards getting into his eyes/cutting somewhere on his neck, if I remember correctly. When he jumped back through to leave the Void.

[zenith jacinth]

Yes, I remember it being that too

[craggy drum]

Thought that was just his hands and arms that got cut up when he landed on the shattered Seriglass Bell in the Void

He could still see in the Void. And I think the bulk of the Serglass bell shards were still in the Void.

And for the shards to somehow sever his vocal chords and not just straight up sever an artery and also somehow blinding both eyes seems odd

Plus we already know that Void exposure messes with people. So it blinding and rendering him mute makes more sense to me. And it probably fed into his imposter syndrome too.

[supple dagger]

You can totally cut your vocal chords and not bleed out

[craggy drum]

Yes

But at no point does Albrecht mention seriglass in his flesh aside from on his arms and when he grabs some to write his message.

Plus the pain he notices after he intimately falls into the Void is the pain in his arms

[autumn turret]

Was he rendered mute from that point forward or could he just not speak due to shock

[supple dagger]

He immediately says he's been lacerated in flesh and is spilling guts and blood when he comes back to reality

[torpid lantern]

He was EXTREMELY injured

[craggy drum]

He says it was gone forever

[supple dagger]

Albretch may not have been too injured when he met Wally, but coming back royally messed him up

[fossil fractal]

no wonder he wanted to die

but i would like some more operator dialogue

the assasination ones should be more common too imo

did a bunch of runs on various assasinations but never got anything

also some voice lines when stuff like zanuka or grustrag or stalker would be cool too

but i dont mind some lines are hillarious like "lets go on the offensive" in a mobile defense

[vital owl]

IF it was the real Albretch that made it back to our reality

[zenith jacinth]

That was just his paranoia-ish thing

[supple dagger]

I mean, we know for sure the real one made it back

[vital owl]

Do we though? Wally can mimic just about anyone so far that we have seen.

[supple dagger]

We know because we are dealing with Wally now

Plus, the whole missing finger

[vital owl]

im not sure that matters, wallys been all over for a while

[supple dagger]

Wally been appearing to us yes. Because we directly encountered him.

But the missing finger dummy confirms they weren't the one to leave

[zenith jacinth]

No

[cyan crest]

If Wally had made it back, first of all he wouldn't record the diaries, second he wouldn't commit suicide, third the finger would hold no void abilities, fourth Wally wouldn't have a missing finger in his "true" form
So yeah, Albrecht came back

[vital owl]

But what if both made it back. What if wally needed to be held back by Rell because it followed Albrecht home? What if, instead of saving Rell, we just doomed ourselves?

[supple dagger]

The makes no sense given how Albretch's story ends and the most recent quest

[vital owl]

I just like playing devil's advocate.

[cyan crest]

The devil doesn't need an advocate here

[vital owl]

LOL

[supple dagger]

Devil's advocate needs some form of reasonable doubt

i got a question

[vital owl]

?

[supple dagger]

do we know when cross save come out

[slim anvil]

no

[supple dagger]

ok

[west cypress]

Anyone have a good screenshot of the Incarnon Weapons?

[cyan crest]

There are a few ss of those in the #de-livestreams channel

[west cypress]

Thank you!

[leaden leaf]

Download the pic to zoom in

[autumn turret]

anyone got the link to the supporter pack post that was mentioned on stream?

[subtle crown]

From https://www.warframe.com/news/angels-of-the-zariman

No new roomba so my budget is safe.

[autumn turret]

- Gyratory Sphere Decoration
i have a feeling the only other way to get this is to buy gyre in the market

[subtle crown]

99% chance it's the same as alchemist frame whose name I've forgotten.

[past kiln]

lavos?

[subtle crown]

Yes, thank you.

[autumn turret]

and sorta baruuk

and yareli

[subtle crown]

His decoration was either from your wallet or gifting Lavos to another player and you would get the decoration.

[autumn turret]

the sekhara seems neat

because those are cool, and this will be earnable

wonder what the sigil and glyph will be like

[gentle steppe]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the zariman ship cause the rip in the origin system opening up the void?

[thick jolt]

Nope

Void was pioneered by albrecht entrati

He "found" the void

Then with wallys fingers they studied and developed void tech even if albrecht didnt like the idea

[gentle steppe]

Huh

[thick jolt]

Zariman was one of the uses of void tech

Apparently a colony ship that would jump to a new system

[gentle steppe]

And at the new war end, ballus was doing that

[thick jolt]

Yeah trying to use the sun to power a portal to tau

[gentle steppe]

And I'm pretty sure the tau is a system prison, containing the wall man

[thick jolt]

Not even close

Tau system is where the sentients came back from

Wally is from the void

[lean birch]

I believe the Orokin created the sentients to be able to travel through the void to Tau - to terraform it to make it suitable for the Orokin to go live there... and the Zariman was on a journey to there...

[gentle steppe]

Definitely true there

[thick jolt]

Kinda through the void they were supposed to make a solar rail to tau

Stabler than what the zariman was supposed to

[trim tree]

I thought they were slow traveling. Not thru the void

Since they are void weak

[lean birch]

Well yeah, the solar rails are how we travel around (what the junctions are between planets).... that solar rail technology was inspired by the void studies (I think)

[thick jolt]

I meant that the solar rails kinda go through the void

[frail nymph]

but then how is he speaking during this dialogue hmmmm

[lean birch]

solar rail = hyperspace / space jump I assume

[trim tree]

If the sentients were building solar rails, what was the Zariman trying to do

[frail nymph]

It's wrong to say we doomed ourselves. Letting Rell get possessed by Wally would be much much worse

[thick jolt]

More of a jump gate id call it

[frail nymph]

Trying to go there before they realised they could build solar rails

Sentients were not an option at the time of Zariman

And so solar rails were also not an option

[thick jolt]

In the sentient origin log theres mention of a failed attempt to go to tau
Personally i assume that to be the zariman

[frail nymph]

how did you make this?

[leaden leaf]

Snipping tool, paste into paint

Rearrange as needed

[trim tree]

So timeline is:

1. Void Travel is invented
2. Zariman tries to void jump to Tau fails and gets lost
3. Orokin make sentients to make a safer route
4. Sentients rebel when they get to tau.
5. Old war starts
6. Zariman reappears?

[gentle steppe]

Well I'm sure the wall man is the only reason the tenno are well, tenno, a source of void, because of the wall guy,

so if that's true, I'm pretty sure he's viewing the origin system through the tenno,

and he's a powerful chaotic entity, tried using the adults to make deals, they got drove mad, so he turned to the kiddos, which didn't get mucked up, so maybe he made the tenno to be his personal army at some point, or toys

[frail nymph]

No Zariman reappeared long before old war, since it was only gone a few years.

Tenno were stored in morgue-like lockers as described in Rhino prime codex

[trim tree]

This makes it sound like Tenno are agents of the void

[leaden leaf]

Tenno were being tormented by the void juice
Margulis went against the other orokin to protect them
Margulis executed
Lotus brainwashed to protect us
Sentients pushed back
Orokin overthrown/Ballas betrays orokin

Right?

[frail nymph]

I guess technically the Zariman could have been sent just before the sentients finished building the rail, like a simultaneous project. But that would mean the Sentients were way too quick at waging war and defeating the pre-warframe Orokin

[gentle steppe]

Why else would he deal with us?

[supple dagger]

wasn't lotus instructed to get rid of the tenno but instead took mercy?

[gentle steppe]

Yep

[thick jolt]

Took mercy after some brainwashing iirc

[frail nymph]

Yes, but not sure if Ballas agreed with that instruction...

Because Lotus thinks that the spontaneous mercy story is a lie

[trim tree]

I mean it’s like this was Wally’s plan all along. Have void woken people in the real world to do his bidding. But Rell kinda stopped it temporarily

[lean birch]

That bit is unclear - she says she took mercy because she was made infertile after crossing the void, and therefore took the tenno on as her children.... but the she later says she was effectively brainwashed (and that she never loved the tenno)... but she could have said that because she was being influenced by Ballas/Erra at the time....

[gentle steppe]

Maybe the very final battle is both a test of will power over control while also permanently cutting the void link

[frail nymph]

Her argument with Ballas is likely the most accurate. She was programmed to be like Margulis but ended up loving the Tenno more than Ballas, just like Margulis did

[subtle crown]

She wasn't programmed to be like Margulis...

[frail nymph]

"You were so like her"

[subtle crown]

She took on Margs appearance as a way to infiltrate the "tenno nest"

[frail nymph]

"I feel my old self dissolving"

[gentle steppe]

If the void link gets cut, then the wall guy can't do anything to the tenno, but also would probably end up with many tenno deaths since they haven't aged, at all

[subtle crown]

After that came Ballas brainwashing and Natahs change of mechanical heart.

[frail nymph]

Ballas's brainwashing was to make her more like Margulis. That's how she was so like her. Ballas changed her and directed her to Lua etc etc

[thick jolt]

Well void is being pumped into reality regardless of tenno
Thats the point of the heart of deimos it powers void tech

[gentle steppe]

Hm

[trim tree]

I thought the brainwashing was when he kidnapped lotus in a mission?

[subtle crown]

Said void tech being things like the solar rails.

[thick jolt]

Probably void sabotage portals too

[subtle crown]

Also, the tenno void link is not tied to the heart. Only the tech that uses it as a power source.

Heart dies then we still have void powers. Though our ability to still make frames move is so far dubious.

[gentle steppe]

Well hopefully killing the wall guy whose a giant won't have as many negative affects, hopefully not getting another god like entity's attention

[supple dagger]

i wonder if there will be a revisit to deimos after "we strengthen our connection to the void"

[subtle crown]

I hope we never kill MITW.

[gentle steppe]

Why?

[thick jolt]

I mean why kill him ?

[subtle crown]

He is an eldrich horror immortal quasi-god. No faster way to ruin the world building than by explaining them. Plus this is not final fantasy.

[gentle steppe]

Well if he's immortal, then that ideal goes into the fire

[thick jolt]

We dont even know what he is or his end goal
Maybe he wants a cookie party

[supple dagger]

pretty sure he's gonna be like 20 steps ahead of what we try to do

[gentle steppe]

I highly doubt a guy like him wants that

[subtle crown]

20 is super low balling it.

[frail nymph]

He is literally two whole dimensions ahead of us lol

[subtle crown]

Remember that MITW is the only character who views the universe through eternalism.

The rest of us merely try to comprehend it.

[frail nymph]

There's also Unum

kind of

[thick jolt]

Ah yes good old meat tower

[gentle steppe]

What's she gonna do against a guy like him?, I'm pretty sure she's just a super sized warframe

[thick jolt]

So two locations we definitely need to revisit
Unum and deimos

[trim tree]

Makes me wonder if Deimos story content was cut. They seems absent from the whole whole new war thing.

[subtle crown]

Unum isn't technocyte though.

[frail nymph]

let alone helminth

[subtle crown]

Remember that Deimos can hide in the void.

Similar to how the kuva fortress is constantly moving and many people don't even know it exists.

[frail nymph]

Also similar to how Lua was in the void

[subtle crown]

New war started Deimos was all "nope" and went back into hiding.

[gentle steppe]

Wouldn't they just let deimos rot away, things just a giant flesh ball that's a whole hive mind

[frail nymph]

Was it not on the star chart?

[subtle crown]

They still need to guard the heart after all..

[thick jolt]

Everyone needs the heart really

[gentle steppe]

I'm surprised deimos hasn't tried to do what the dead space flesh moons do

[subtle crown]

Oh, my mistake. It's still there.

[thick jolt]

Too busy fighting itself

[subtle crown]

Not too sure I can be bothered playing the quest for a 4th time but many questions that could be answered with screenshots...

[gentle steppe]

Huh, the zariman reminds me of the paridoxi I think it's called?

That one video that has the younger operator hiding a shotgun for the older one

[subtle crown]

Duviri paradox trailer.

[frail nymph]

Drifter came from those lands

[gentle steppe]

Yeah

[subtle crown]

He spent time there.

[gentle steppe]

Maybe a fourth open world?

[subtle crown]

That was the plan.

Planes of duviri is the void open world.

[gentle steppe]

The duviri paradox being the new open world quest there makes alot of sense

[frail nymph]

Also the AoZ promo shows drifters rather than operators, so the Zariman may indeed be Drifter's... That and the weird ghostly monsters suiting the Duviri themes

[subtle crown]

I'm highly curious to find out if the "metallic void creep" is part of the void or something else.

[gentle steppe]

Hopefully the angels won't be as deadly as a eidolon

Just fast and many

[subtle crown]

Given how many we need to kill for each weapon my guess would be the former.

[frail nymph]

Yup, compare the "Kill x void angels" requirement to other known requirements and you'll have your answer

[subtle crown]

Unless it's an op/drift only kill at which point there will be meta amps asap.

12 last time I saw.

For the Sirocco.

[frail nymph]

Mote amp needs an upgrade so badly

Oh wait, Sirocco is a thing

[subtle crown]

Since it's a duviri weapon

[gentle steppe]

Well the whole duviri open world makes bit more sense now

[frail nymph]

I just hope we don't have to kill 12 angels with sirocco etc etc

[frail nymph]

What do you mean?

[subtle crown]

Yeah. Duviri was announced almost 3 years ago but they said it won't be for a while since there is a lot of narritive build up required.

So Deimos was put out instead as the infested open world.

Now that we are getting all the required buildup we can see things really falling into place.

[frail nymph]

I suspect Duviri is no further out now than AoZ was at the time of New War... They already had a map way back in 2019...

[subtle crown]

You say map like it wasn't just a big flat plane with sparse vegetation.

[frail nymph]

Yeah but AoZ didn't even have the Zariman rooms, meanwhile...

[subtle crown]

But yeah, now that new war is over and done with I don't really see PoD being too much further away.

[frail nymph]

That long ago, I mean

[subtle crown]

Maybe 2022 Q4 if we're lucky.

[frail nymph]

Oh wait, nevermind I forgot about Tennocon... Yeah Duviri is gonna be the centerpiece of Tennocon, it has to be

[subtle crown]

"This thing we announced 3 years ago is finally getting released"

[frail nymph]

Already did that bit with New War 👀

[subtle crown]

New war wasn't as hyped as PoD.

"Here is this new open world 😄 but we have to get this new war quest done first story wise"

[gentle steppe]

Well here's something
The zariman is its own place with mission nodes, accessible via the drifters room,
and the duviri plane is outside in void connected to the other half of the zariman ship

[subtle crown]

Then new war became so much more than just a foot note to an open world.

[frail nymph]

Who knows? Maybe original New War ended at Act 1, with PoD being Act 2. Probably not but fun to imagine

Well not exactly ending after act 1, but rather just before the infiltration into Praghasa

[past kiln]

do wonder if the ballas re-enacting 1984 thing was their original intention or was added in later tho

[frail nymph]

Has anyone seen Aznvasions' video about New War leaks? Is it safe to assume it was all baloney now? The one on Dec 14

[subtle crown]

100% leaks.

If there is one thing DE has been super consistent with, it's not leaking.

If something didn't come from a dev or the live version of the game assume it's false.

[frail nymph]

I wanna watch that video for the hek of it but I don't wanna get spoiled even if there's a slim chance

[subtle crown]

Yeah, he is justifying it by saying the devs "ran out of time"

[gentle steppe]

I think the only why we'll access the duviri plane, is by going through the zariman, half of it is loged in a void portal

[craggy drum]

The same way Ballas could speak mentally to Umbra probably. Some means to broadcast his thoughts

[gentle steppe]

Am I making sense?

[subtle crown]

We can go into and out of the void whenever we want.

The biggest issue is the inside of the void is massive so without a map we would have no idea where to start looking.

[radiant matrix]

if the bottom one is the orbiter, what's the top part then?

[subtle crown]

Landing craft.

[fossil fractal]

thing you fly to missions in

[cyan crest]

When the landing craft extracts you, it attaches to the orbiter

[radiant matrix]

ahh that makes sense

i always thought the top was the orbitter all in one

[cyan crest]

And it was bigger in the inside?

[subtle crown]

Nah. In space the ramp separates the two.

[radiant matrix]

yeah ahahhaha

[kind epoch]

The bottom part is not bigger, but you can access the open space

[radiant matrix]

and im guessing in space, the orbiter also connects with the RJ, hence the big tube connected to RJ

[subtle crown]

Yup.

[cyan crest]

Yeah
It looks silly but that's it

[subtle crown]

Tube elevator.

T o o b.

[cyan crest]

still looks silly

although it must be really fun to travel through it

[subtle crown]

It looks ridiculous, but I'm not loading into the dojo every time I want to go for a spin.

[cyan crest]

yeah lmao

[zenith jacinth]

But is it regor approved?

[subtle crown]

We should find his corpse, embalm him with kuva, ask him and then kill him gain.

[icy ore]

Toob Regor

[molten crystal]

Maybe that's how these bosses keep coming back in stories and quests, the Queen(s) just shoves a litre of Kuva down their throat everytime the Tenno bönk them and then send them back to work

[subtle crown]

Well that one is "when we refight the boss it's like we're fighting them for the first time"

[craggy drum]

The Grineer can be easily explained away with clones

No need to waste precious Kuva

[molten crystal]

Yeah, but then how did Sargas Ruk appear in Scralet Spear? Or how did Regor appear in Tubemen of Regor or Natah? We had already killed them by that point.

[subtle crown]

Sargas ruk: We never killed him, only defeated him.
Tyl Regor: Check the timeline bro.

[molten crystal]

But then how would they have same memories and personality?

[subtle crown]

Tubemen of Regor was his main moment, Curing Alad V using regors serum. then after ToR the Natah quest was released, Lotus said he was a pain and at the end of the quest we go to his Uranus base and permanently kill him.

[molten crystal]

Sargas Ruk: Literally explodes when you kill him

Tyl Regor: What timeline? Isn't he killable before you complete quests he appears in?

[subtle crown]

Sargus Ruk is canonically still alive. He uses the explosion as a distraction to escape.

[molten crystal]

Atleast Vay Hek had the decency to fly away infront of us

BTW, does killing the Warframe kill the Tenno?

[molten crystal]

Then why use it on liches?

[subtle crown]

Vor: Void muckery.
Vay Hek: Still alive
Lech Kril: Still alive.
Sargas Ruk: Still alive
Tyl Regor: Dead as of 2013.
Kela de Thaym: Still alive.
The Seargent: A literal pencil pusher where one dies the next in line gets promoted.
Jackal: Expensive robot.
Raptors: Factory destroyed, considered dead for now.
Hyena Pack: Mass produced robots.
Ambulas: Expensive robot with meh AI.
Phorid: Keeps reforming.
Lephantis: Dead though might eventually reform.
Juggernauts: Keep reforming.
Jordas Golem: There are still several copies floating about in secret.
Hemocyte: Keep reforming.
Zealoid prelate: Technically dead but the strain may make another one.
Ropaloylist: Dead.
Nihil: Trapped.

[subtle crown]

From what we have been told, not exactly. Though actual warframe death while connected is super bad.

[molten crystal]

Super bad how? Did the Tenno connected to their Warframes die while Vor was killing them? Did Mirage's operator die as well?

[subtle crown]

While not instant death, it is incredibly painful for the tenno and might potentially leave them a vegetable.

[molten crystal]

How did Alad V survive though? He killed him like twice, once with Zanuka and once after Patient Zero

[subtle crown]

Alad V survived because he is Alad V and always survives.

[molten crystal]

If you count the trailer, we killed him thrice

[subtle crown]

We defeated him, never killed him.

[molten crystal]

Maybe V stands for how many times he'll die

[molten crystal]

This is more Void muckery than Vor

[fleet veldt]

Conventional maps are useless.

[molten crystal]

People nowadays have no decency to stay dead....then again we shouldn't be the ones to say that

[subtle crown]

Not really. In the jupiter boss fight we knock him out but never kill. In Eris fight we knock him out, kidnap him and forcefully cure him. In new war absolutely nothing said Alad V was on the ship that Veso blew up.

[ivory surge]

Ballas is very good at staying dead tho

[molten crystal]

But since we have eternalism....

[subtle crown]

Eternalism is useless in that aspect.

[molten crystal]

Ballas is dead; Ballas is not dead

[subtle crown]

If it didn't happen while inside the void it may as well not have happened at all as what we were assigned basically cannot be changed.

[molten crystal]

Eternalism is relevant to everything

[ivory surge]

Schrodinger's Ballas

[subtle crown]

While inside the void you might be able to look at other realities where he is alive. Once outside the void we can still only return to our one where our assigned outcome is "Ballas is dead".

[molten crystal]

Void is the Cafè of Broken Dreams, where all unrealised possibilities and timelines are stored, inaccrssible to most people sure, but there

[ivory surge]

what it matters is that he's dead in ours

[subtle crown]

Is warframe a game set in that location? Or is it a game set mainly outside the void in the sol system?

[molten crystal]

Brother, abandon this Presentism, accept Eternalism

[subtle crown]

He is dead in ours and there is no way for us to change that.

If he died while inside the void that is entirely different and eternalism would 100% apply.

[craggy drum]

Etetnalism isn’t as simple as being dead and not dead. People keep latching onto that because they misinterpreted one of the quiz questions.

It’s about choices committing you to one reality, while another reality is related in parallel where you made a different choice.

The question is about the girl making a choice that will result in one of her partners being dead. She makes a choice and commits to that reality with one of them dead. A parallel reality is made where she made a different choice resulting in the other parent’s death. Under Eternalism, both realities are valid and true and theoretically accessible, therefore “both parents will live, both parents will die” as a result of the choice that is made

[subtle crown]

But if something happens outside the void our assigned outcome is our assigned outcome.

[molten crystal]

No one stays dead for too long in this game, the Vulpaphylas spit at the face of death everyday

[ivory surge]

DE smoked something really exotic before creating Warframe's lore

[subtle crown]

The girl still chooses to kill one of the parents and unless she is an eldrich horror immortal quasi-god named "the man in the wall" there is nothing she can do to change her outcome.

[molten crystal]

So for all intents and purposes, anyone who is not a Tenno, is still subject to Presentism?

[subtle crown]

Tenno are still subject to presentism.

Drifter could kind of comprehend how time was supposed to work while in the void but even then still couldn't quite get there as his only frame of reference was linear time.

[molten crystal]

Then what was all that fuss about multiple versions of us dying when we shook wally's hand?

[subtle crown]

That was man in the wall doing his thing.

[molten crystal]

This is some Rick and Morty level stuff

[craggy drum]

Everyone is subject to Eternalism.

The Tenno are the first to fully realise Eternalism because they got yeetedi into the Void, where an alternate reality version of themselves was residing. Allowing one to cross into the reality of the other (Drifter getting into our timeline)

[subtle crown]

Again. Eldrich horror immortal quasi-god. Linear time is not a concept to him, thanks to albrecht it would possibly be the first time he has ever interacted with someone with that viewpoint.

[craggy drum]

The Void is the one place that you could theoretically access alternate timelines because it plays fast and loose with time and reality

[subtle crown]

Yup.

[molten crystal]

Why did the other versions of us die spontaneously then? Shouldn't all possibilties always be possible as per Eternalism?

[subtle crown]

Even that "theoretical" is a big neon sign as we have never once been shown anything like it.

[craggy drum]

Yup

[subtle crown]

Eldrich. Horror. Immortal. Quasi. God.

[ivory surge]

I've seen more people doing philosophy here than at school

[subtle crown]

For all we know MITW has the power to mess with eternalism to change outcomes.

[molten crystal]

Also, how did the Sentients mamage to take over the whole system just by defeating 1 Tenno? I mean sure, oir Tenno was gone, but what happened to the other Tenno? Why did Nora say "The Tenno are gone?" Did they all just give up and go hide in the Void?

[subtle crown]

"There can't be a split if there is no decision made"

[craggy drum]

My bugbear is just people thinking that Eternalism means dead and not dead when it’s nowhere nearly that simple. And is actually about the choices we make creating alternate timelines where we make different choices

[subtle crown]

There was a several year timespan between operator getting banished back to hell and the drifter coming to our timeline.

[craggy drum]

Ballas would’ve had to make some very different choices to not be dead.

Maybe there’s an alternate timeline Ballas that didn’t let Margins be killed meaning no need to defect from the Orokin and no need for the Collapse

[molten crystal]

I thought I heard Neil Degrasse Tyson say something like that, that when qe make any choice that has more than 1 outcome, the Universe splits into that many versions that exists parelly....actually eveb Onnko says that when you make Amps with him, something like "There are unlimited versions of future, but when you choose one all others close, now the one you have is unique"

[ivory surge]

maybe even a timeline where the sentients were not created

[craggy drum]

Yup

Onkko has been spewing Eternalism since he was introduced.

It just sounded like crazy nonsense to us until now lol

[subtle crown]

Yeah, NDT was talking about one of the 5 schools of the multiverse theory.

[molten crystal]

Yeah, but still, where'd the all the other Tenno go? I saw that Lua had no Murex around them, neither did Deimos, Kuva Fortress, or the Void, so were teh Tenno just hiding there?

[subtle crown]

For all we know, yes.

The Tenno all being void demons might have been pulled in.

[molten crystal]

Unum is also said to see time from all sides or something, so maybe she knows about Eternalism too, we know she can just pause time if she wants to.

[craggy drum]

But yeah that’s the Warframe version of Eternalism boiled down to its basics.

You have a choice to do A or B. You choose A and are now committed to that reality of choosing A.

But another reality is created where another you chose B and is committed to that timeline.

If you were in the Void, you could theoretically access the reality where you chose B and vice versa. Reality may not be that pleased about two versions of you occupying the same reality. But it’s theoretically possible

[molten crystal]

Maybe the Sun and Moon choices play into this

Oh God there is a version of time where my Tenno drank Kuva

[subtle crown]

That version you could theoretically access but so far there is no way to.

Especially if MITW ended them.

[molten crystal]

Yeah, Ballas almost brainwashed the entire system and put Orphix fields everywhere, not much Tenno can do, even with Necramech's so they prolly just went back to hiding

[zenith jacinth]

The quills know about all this time nonsense because the unum tells them

[molten crystal]

We are like Naruto, people hate us because we carry a demon inside us and because we're orphans, but really we're descent folks

[subtle crown]

Even Onkko is "primary nexus".

[craggy drum]

It would also explain why she let that Murex crash into her, I don’t think it was something that took her by surprise. The Quills and their ability to know all possibilities and what their choices will do in order to choose the best outcome (like Onkko choosing to stay away so Saya could move on and be with Konzu due to that being the best outcome for her)

then it’s safe to assume the Unum can do the same and saw that only by letting the Murex crash into her and let Cetus be taken over for a time, could the Tenno eventually reach the point of chasing down EidoLotus and in the end, Ballas being defeated

[molten crystal]

I saw a lore video that said the Narmer veils were using Unum's Kuva to brainwash folks

[subtle crown]

Yes.

[molten crystal]

I always thought Unum was some Orokin who pulled a Silavana and transferenced into the Tower

[subtle crown]

Unum being red meant that she was harvesting kuva for Ballas. When we cleanse her and turn her blue again she was fine.

[molten crystal]

Maybe Kuva has something to do with Transference

Their effects are quite similar

[craggy drum]

Eh they have a mirror and working Veils like not long after they invading Cetus so I dunno if it’s Temple Kuva

[subtle crown]

We are literally told that kuva is how the orokin elite body hopped.

[molten crystal]

Maybe someone sold them some beforehand, remeber Nihil glasses a traitor amongst Ostrons because he was doing something like that?

[craggy drum]

Nah

Transference involves Void energy in some capacity and the Void and Kuva are oil and water

[subtle crown]

But yeah, Ballas is basically a master of kuva. It's how his kuva is bright red and shimmering and grineer kuva is polluted with some sort of black sludge.

[craggy drum]

Ballas probably has a better method of harvesting it/has a stockpile left from the Orokin Era.

The Kuva siphons are Grineer made so a bit less refined

Probably resulting in less clean Kuva

[molten crystal]

But then why did Teshin get a red glow on his hand when he was touching our operator's reservoir pod on Lua? Also Worm Queen keeps saying that Kuva Siphons are workimg due to the Tenno jumping around

[subtle crown]

Teshins involvement is sketchy at best.

[molten crystal]

Kuva is called Blood of Orokin anvestors, so maybe Orokin ancestors mucked around with the Void?

[subtle crown]

2 separate fields of study.

[craggy drum]

Kuva was around long before Albrecht’s first venture into the Void

[molten crystal]

We know Requiems can cancel out Kuva and Requiems seem to be poems about Wallyboi

[subtle crown]

The orokin did muck about with the void. It's called the Entrati family and Deimos.

[ivory surge]

I like to imagine DE reading this chat and going: "yeah yeah, we totally thought of all this 👀 "

[subtle crown]

the isolation valuts are individual labratories running different void experiments.

[molten crystal]

Take notes bois, they think about lore far more than we possibly can

[craggy drum]

The Orokin believed the Void was just that. Empty. No energy, nothing that could be harnessed to benefit them and advance their ability to travel

[cyan crest]

Nope, nopey nope, they, void and kuva, are opposites if anything, seeing how they react to one another
Kuva also predates void by a lot

[subtle crown]

For the most part. Remember that the heart of deimos was the link and provided void energy to a great many things in the empire.

[molten crystal]

But Void is older than the stars

I think

[cyan crest]

I mean the usage of void by the orokin

[subtle crown]

Like a power plant that used the void instead of nuclear fuel rods.

Solar rails are powered by the void thanks to the heart. Heart dies all solar rails die with it.

[molten crystal]

I mean there has to be some reason Orokin were godlike beings with unlimited lives, money and tech. Maybe their ancestors had some run in with the Void but then told no one, so they didn't have to share their power

[subtle crown]

If the heart dies tenno will still have void powers, but without the heart our warframes may or may not work.

[cyan crest]

Kuva is also seemingly harvested from the air, so it wouldn't make much sense for it to come from another dimension

[craggy drum]

Again. The Orokin had never stepped foot into the Void because they didn’t believe there was anything there and nothing they could use until Albrecht went there.

[subtle crown]

Yeah, I wonder if the heart was before or after Albrecht excursion.

Deimos is a huge laboratory that still powers a large portion of orokin tech.

[cyan crest]

If it pumps void energy into realspace, it should be after, given how the orokin didn't believe the void had energy or anything, right?

[craggy drum]

After.

It’s been maintained by the Entrati family for a very long time

[subtle crown]

The void being empty and the void being a fuel source need not be linked.

[molten crystal]

"Listen to the chamber simmer. The longer that dreamer thrashes about the more Kuva essence we collect."

Worm seems to think that dreamers thrashing around leads to more Kuva production

And Dreamer's powers come from Void

[cyan crest]

If it's empty it has no fuel
If it has fuel, then it isn't empty, and therefor exploring it makes sense

[subtle crown]

I'm more meaning "treat the void like the sun".

[molten crystal]

[subtle crown]

You don't need to interact with the sun to gain solar energy from it.

[molten crystal]

Eat it with a giant Sentient mothership so you can go to another system?

[cyan crest]

You need to know it has energy
Which the orokin didn't about the void

[craggy drum]

This^^

[molten crystal]

The Void has energy; The Void doesn't have energy

All problems can be solved by application of Eternalism

[subtle crown]

There is something that made it distinct from the black of space, if they figured out a way to harvest the ambient energy from the void merely existing it doesn't need to have anything in it.

[molten crystal]

Do the Warframes themselvs have the power to cast abilities? Or is it the Tenno channellimg their Void powers through them?

[cyan crest]

Which they only discovered after going into the void? Also void is out of the rules of time so different versions of the void itself shouldn't exist
I think
I believe

[molten crystal]

Like are all Warframes just super soldiers on their own, and the Tenno are the ones channellimg their powers as abilities? Or do the Warframes come with the abilities built-in and the Tenno just pilot them?

[subtle crown]

Umbra.

[craggy drum]

Nope. Albrect was the only one who believed there was more to the Void, all his research up until his venture into the Void didn’t show anything.

[cyan crest]

Abilities are built in

[molten crystal]

He was a Daxy boi

[cyan crest]

With abilities without the tenno

[molten crystal]

Oh no wait Chroma and Mesa can do sruff without Tenno too

I just remebered

Who was controlling Chroma btw? And what was the Arcane Machine?

[subtle crown]

Hence "will warframes still work without the heart powering them?"

We could probably still jump in, but at that point it might merely be sentient life forever trapped motionless.

[molten crystal]

They were able to walk after the heart went offline

During the quest

[cyan crest]

Only walk

[subtle crown]

Walk yes, it was super sluggish.

So our tenno powers might simply not be enough to power them fully.

[molten crystal]

They were also hit by missiles and what not

[molten crystal]

Tenno simply provide the consciousness I guess

[subtle crown]

We don't.

[cyan crest]

Father also talks about re-routing your transference to Snake, so that at least should still be working

[molten crystal]

Then what do we do?

[subtle crown]

They have their own consciousness. They're in agony. We calm them down.

[molten crystal]

We still control them though

[cyan crest]

And kinda snatch their bodies for a while

[molten crystal]

With consent

[subtle crown]

We control them yes. It's an agreeable situation though.

[molten crystal]

They are living things, and according to Ballas during Valkyr Prime's trailer, barely controlled by us

[subtle crown]

Pure unending agony and anger vs calmness while a kid moves around your body that you yourself have no ability to move.

[molten crystal]

Which makes us feeding them to Helminth a little questionable

[subtle crown]

Except for when they do...

[cyan crest]

Call it a mercy

Hunter is now gonna say that modern warframes aren't actually people and just helminth blobs

[zenith jacinth]

Giving them back to where they come from is questionable?

[molten crystal]

The things inside Cryopods seems pretty human

[cyan crest]

He doesn't consider those because their name is old

[molten crystal]

All that stabbing in the neck and all

Whose voice was speaking via the Arcane Machine?

[zenith jacinth]

I'm not the only one to believe in this theory

[subtle crown]

Honestly, after what they have been through it might be an improvement.

[cyan crest]

Yes but you're here and others aren't

[cyan crest]

It sounds like Pragahsa

She spoke in a trailer

And used that voice

[molten crystal]

What did they go through? First they were in a Cryopod, now they are infested with steel skin and organs linked with untold resilience.

[opal rapids]

Wasn't that Hunhow

[cyan crest]

Could be, the voice is more similar to Prags

[craggy drum]

Yeah I’m pretty sure it’s Praghasa

[subtle crown]

Did you miss the part where existence as a warframe is pure unending agony unless a tenno is physically in proximity?

[molten crystal]

What did her 2 lines mean then? Eyes of night drinking the day and all is hushed, empty is womb of sky? Also how'd she control a whole Warframe?

[cyan crest]

Ehem rhino ehem

[molten crystal]

Those were the early one's no? The ones with real people in them?

[subtle crown]

All of them.

[molten crystal]

Oh my stars 😳

[zenith jacinth]

There is the theory that chroma's pelt was controlling him

[cyan crest]

"Hushed and empty is the womb in the sky" means "holy void the moon is gone" (the moon is the womb in the sky)

[subtle crown]

https://youtu.be/YaKMSU-O2xc?t=259 Arcane machine voice.

timestamped.

[molten crystal]

And the eyes of day drinking the night?

[cyan crest]

I don't remember her saying that

[molten crystal]

During The New Strange, Simaris' intro quest

[craggy drum]

The eyes of night drinking the day and all is hushed” sounds like she’s talking about the Void and her journey through it. “Empty is womb of sky” is referring to Lua

[molten crystal]

But why would the pelt help sentients?

[cyan crest]

It looks sentient, and chroma's passive is incredibly sentient-like

[zenith jacinth]

Because it might be made out of a melted down sentient

[molten crystal]

Eyes of Day, like the lidless eye

[molten crystal]

Shouldn't Lotus have recognized the voice?

[zenith jacinth]

Why

[molten crystal]

As Phragasa's or Hunhow's?

[molten crystal]

She Sentient Princess

[zenith jacinth]

She doesn't remember her past yet at that point

Seemingly

[molten crystal]

Did the Orokin actually force her to love the Tenno or did she do that by herself?

[subtle crown]

Ok, the new strange was 1.5-2 years after Natah quest.

[zenith jacinth]

Didn't know the sentients had a monarchy

[subtle crown]

Debatable and highly depends on how you read things.

[cyan crest]

If anything she's the great sentient queen
Wink wink

[molten crystal]

Someone called her the Great Sentient Queen

[subtle crown]

Natah is "queen of the mimics" and a direct descendant of Hunhow the warfather.

[cyan crest]

Descendant is correct but it's a weird way to say daughter

[zenith jacinth]

There's a meme that fits natah weirdly well

[craggy drum]

Erra also calls her a Queen in the Erra cinematic

[molten crystal]

I think she volubtarily chose the Tenno and Ballas lied to her so he can turn her against us by telling her that her love for us was fake, and he was acting like a prisoner so he can sell the lie as a defeated person who is telling the truth

[subtle crown]

The joys of sentient reproduction.

[molten crystal]

Even the Drifter says, Lotus chose the Tenno

If Orokin had programmed her and all, why'd she have the Tenno kill them?

[subtle crown]

Not programmed, brainwashed.

Huge technical difference.

[cyan crest]

Lotus does say she remembers Ballas making her old self dissolve on Lua, when they're fighting in the sun

[molten crystal]

Unless it was Ballas who brainwashed her, but then why would he make her love the Tenno when he hated the Tenno, since he lost Margulis due to them

[molten crystal]

Maybe she was talking about the Apostasy Prologue

[subtle crown]

Welcome to abusive narcissists.

[cyan crest]

Cause he made her Margulis 2.0 and she kind of needed to control the tenno and that

[subtle crown]

Ballas brainwashed Natah into loving the tenno in a self sacrificial motherly way because that's the sort of love he wants.

[molten crystal]

Then why not have her love him?

[subtle crown]

different kinds of love.

Margulis did love Ballas, but in the way 2 adults do. Ballas saw the self sacrificial love she was showing the kids and wanted that kind of love instead.

[molten crystal]

But he didn't get to love her, she chose to love the Tenno over him, again

[subtle crown]

Hence him brainwashing the whole system into that kind of love. But him being an abusive narcissist it was never enough.

"I have the entire system brainwashed but this splinter group will never bow to me and I'm going to make it everyones problem"

[molten crystal]

Kinda wish he didn't was wishing the quest would be about all out Sentient Vs Tenno war and all that, Ballas made it all about him figuratively and literally

[subtle crown]

Then Ballas throwing a hissy fit and deciding if he couldn't get what he wanted then no one will and started eating the sun.

[subtle crown]

Hello, welcome to the past 1000 years of warframe lore. It always has been about Ballas.

[molten crystal]

Then he kissed Lotus and died, "We end as we began"

Lohk

[cyan crest]

I don't know what he expected to find in Tau other than hate by literally everyone there tbh

[molten crystal]

Imagine all the Sentients living peacefully and a random Orokin shows up

[craggy drum]

I think he was hoping that by controlling Praghasa he could bring the rest of the Sentients in Tau to heel

[zenith jacinth]

Ballas: comes to tau
The sentients:

[molten crystal]

But why make her love the Tenno? He already lost Margulis once because she loved Tenno more than him, why again?

[subtle crown]

Congratulations. You literally summed up the entire reason Sentients are fighting us in the first place.

[subtle crown]

You have clearly never had a narcissist parent or partner.

You are trying to justify actions the person would make like "do I want a peanut butter or a ham sandwich for lunch?"

[molten crystal]

I have, but like they weren't Orokin

[molten crystal]

Ham

[subtle crown]

They were, your point?

[molten crystal]

Why Ballas did the same thing twice?

[subtle crown]

As easily as you chose ham, Ballas chose to destroy the empire.

[molten crystal]

If he was brainwashing Lotus, why not make her love him, if that's his end goal?

And if he wanted her love voluntarily, how does making her love and care for the Tenno, achieve that goal?

[subtle crown]

Maybe this time I'll get it right. But it needs to be the self sacrificial kind of love a mother shows to a child.

Not the kind of love one adult shows to another.

[molten crystal]

Okay, but how does making her love and care for the Tenno, get him that kind of love?

[subtle crown]

Ask the abusive narcissist why they came to that decision.

because it's already heavily justified and a non-issue to them.

[cyan crest]

Mainly because Ballas wanted the orokin to go down, and he had to use something to do that
Here come the tenno, who need to do that, and they someone who gives the order for that
So, you make a Margulis 2 to give them orders and that stuff, and also care for all them, and when the time comes she has to order the tenno to kill the orokin
Wibbly wobbly stuff happens and everything blows on Ballas' face because Oops, she actually loves them now and doesn't want to kill them
At least that's how I see it

[molten crystal]

He ded

[craggy drum]

During the fight between Ballas and Lotus doesn’t he say something about her wanting kids (because the Void made her barren) so he gave her the Tenno and she ended up loving them more?

[molten crystal]

I thought he was talking about Margulis

[molten crystal]

Ah so Natah not only flipped off Hunhow but also Ballas

[cyan crest]

Margulis wasn't barren because of the void

[cyan crest]

That's the way I see it, ye

[craggy drum]

He says that he gave her the kids. And mentions her being barren

Pretty sure Margulis was the only one who wanted to take care of them. So she did.. didn’t Ballas for that

[molten crystal]

Did he say anything about Lotus being barren?

[subtle crown]

Yeah, Lotus was barren.

[molten crystal]

I know Void makes em barren, but did Ballas say he gave the kids to Lotus bevause she was barren?

[subtle crown]

Margulis came into contact with the kids thanks to her work making proto-warframes so the void demons who could barely control their powers move and interact with the world.

[supple dagger]

She met the kids before Protoframes

[subtle crown]

During actual Margulis work she still loved Ballas but developed love for Margulis. Even with being maimed and blinded by the kids.

[subtle crown]

Yup. Meet kids, start work on proto-frames, somewhere around there start to develop a sense of motherly care and love for them.

[molten crystal]

Ditch Ballas for them, get killed

[subtle crown]

Silvana gets involved, develops helminth strain and titania. Grabs titania and bails back to earth.

[craggy drum]

Don’t think margulis had anything to do with the Proto frames. Infestation wasn’t her field

[molten crystal]

She collabed with Silvana for that

[cyan crest]

Did silvana make the helminth or is that just assuming things?

[supple dagger]

She was working with Silvana on an adjacent project. Not full on frames, but just surrogate bodies

[molten crystal]

Silavana was using infestation to try and clean earth's pollution

[subtle crown]

The proto-frames were just that. Prototypes. Some of the earliest ones were complete failures.

[supple dagger]

Nothing says Silvana made Helminth

[craggy drum]

They worked on Transference therapy together. But that didn’t involve Proto frames at all. That came much later when it was discovered Tenno could control them

[subtle crown]

After Silvana got involved things progressed more smoothly except for Ballas who instruments of war.

[cyan crest]

Initially silvana says it's for therapy so those weren't frames per se, those would be the initial transference surrogates they were trying to put the tenno in to make them live normal lives
And then came the frames made for the tenno

[molten crystal]

Ballas made Warframes, Margulis onky had enough time to make the Tenno dream I think

[molten crystal]

So just the pods then

In Lua's reservoir

[cyan crest]

And the surrogate bodies they had to control

[supple dagger]

Helminth would've been made separate from Silvana

[molten crystal]

Okay so, Lotus was barren, so Ballas gave her the Tenno, but yet again she loved them more than him?

[supple dagger]

She wanted no part in any War Project, and Helminth is directly from one

[molten crystal]

I think it makes more sense that Ballas did not brainwash Lotus prior to Aposatsy Prologue and lied to her after the Apostasy prologue, to make her believe that her love for the Tenno was fabricated

[subtle crown]

My mistake. I mistook her comments on finishing the Titania warframe to that of her work on the infestation strain they were all filled with.

[molten crystal]

But then the line about shaping her in Lua makes no sense

[subtle crown]

Ballas brainwashed Natah pre-collapse. 1000ish years ago.

[supple dagger]

Lua is just where she and the Tenno were kept

[molten crystal]

Why?

[subtle crown]

To control the tenno.

[molten crystal]

For what?

[subtle crown]

The tenno were a key part in the collapse of the orokin empire.

[supple dagger]

Because he was a sociopathic narcissist that couldn't handle his guilt in killing Margulius. So he took Natah and made Margulis 2.0

[cyan crest]

To... Kill the orokin... The main reason he allied with the sentients....

[subtle crown]

Some have walked these desolate worlds while you have slept. Some like me. I remember what you did. I remember the day.

The Tenno appeared at the Terminus, gleaming and victorious. Our cold and gold Emperors, breathless, bathed you in savior's silk. Then came the sound. Across all our worlds, all at once, the ceremonial Naga drums. A royal salute to the honored Tenno. Ten solemn beats to declare the suffering was over. I watched from a distance, with the rest of the low Guardians. With each beat terror began to crush my throat. The Tenno were not stoic and silent. They were waiting. They were poised. I tried to call out but only a strangled whisper escaped.

When the ninth beat rang a torrent of blood filled the stadium, loosed by Tenno blades. The drums, the Empire, fell silent forever.
Now I hunt, dividing your numbers. Watching from that dark place, cataloging your sins, I am the ghost of retribution. You may forget but you are not innocent.
Stalker codex entry.

[supple dagger]

But then Natah wanted kids, so he put her in charge on the Tenno like Margulis Was

And lo and behold, she came to love the kids just like Margulis did

[molten crystal]

But then Margulis 2.0 did the same thing as Margulis 1.0 and loved the Tenno more than him, that wasn't something he intended right? He was hopimg Margulis 2.0 after being introduced to Tenno, would become like Margulis 1.0 enough, but not to the point where she leaves him and takes the kids?

[subtle crown]

Like, Ballas controlling the Tenno was an important part in his plan.

[subtle crown]

You are trying to find justification in the decision making of an abusive narcissist.

[supple dagger]

Controlling the Tenno was a part of the Sentient plan, not Ballas

[subtle crown]

You would have more luck trying to figure out a sociopath thought process.

[supple dagger]

Ballas just straight up wanted us dead

[molten crystal]

He was wworking with them though, wasn't he? The Vitruvian tells us that

[craggy drum]

Though he also wanted her to kill them once the Orokin had been killed but instead she hid them away.

Because he hated the Tenno as much as he hated the Orokin. He blamed them all for Margulis’ death

But Lotus loved them and protected them instead

[cyan crest]

And the orokin
Like the sentients, who he allied with
So, using the tenno to kill the orokin was part of his plan as well
The sentients also wanted to kill the tenno after everything ended

[supple dagger]

He was. He gave them the secret of the tenno and Warframes, and gave them all the info needed to kill us

[subtle crown]

Remember that pre-collapse Ballas and post-collapse Ballas wanted different things.

[molten crystal]

He must've thought he'll get Margulis to love him in a way she loved the Tenno, just wanna know how exactly he planned on that happening

[subtle crown]

Find that narcissist parent or partner and ask them.

They might get close or they might get the opposite.

[supple dagger]

Ballas is a complete Sociopath. He flat out cannot comprehend how it works

[subtle crown]

I wouldn't call him a sociopath.

[molten crystal]

I think he wanted to make Lotus just enough like Margulis that she loves him, but Lotus went full Margulis and reapted what she did, loved the Tenno more than she loves Ballas

[subtle crown]

To be fair, that version of her was only while the helmet was on.

The second the helmet came off the brainwashing to be Lotus wore off. Then Ballas started gaslighting her hard to get what he wanted.

[molten crystal]

Eh, she cared about us even during sun fight, asking Ballas to spare us in exchange of being his slave, telling us to run and save ourself

[cyan crest]

It technically was while the cables were on, since that's the divergence point and when Lotus takes the helmet off by herself

Divergence isn't the word but you get the idea

[molten crystal]

Her cables were off in Second Dream

[cyan crest]

Nope, she came to us with cables and all

[subtle crown]

Either way, helmet off = no more Lotus as we knew her.

[molten crystal]

Yes but they were not connected to anything but her helmet

[subtle crown]

There you go trying to apply your own narrow logic again.

[molten crystal]

What? Even without her helmet she was offering to be Ballas' slave in return for him sparing us

[supple dagger]

He absolutely is a sociopath. He cannot understand basic concepts like empathy, and spend his time lying and manipulating to get what he wants, and takes pleasure in torturing Umbra for his own amusement

[cyan crest]

Anyway all this bamboozling made Lotus pretty confused about who she was by the end of the new war

[subtle crown]

At the very end when the sun had already had a huge chunk taken out of it.

[supple dagger]

Not really

[subtle crown]

Then that is psychopath.

[cyan crest]

Yes... But that's not close to when she went with him and abandoned us in apostasy

One was, or seemed, voluntary
The other was out of desperation

[molten crystal]

Which means she does care about us without the helmet

[subtle crown]

1000 years of brainwashing will do that to you.

[cyan crest]

After being someone for that long of a time you start feeling like that, yes

[subtle crown]

Natah was still in there. Just trapped inside her own mind while the Lotus programming took over.

[cyan crest]

Hence why she is so confused about her identity at the end of the quest

[cyan crest]

At least now she is who she is by her own choice

[subtle crown]

A robot with boobs.

[molten crystal]

Lotus: "Ballas! Stop! Spare them! Spare them... and I will be whatever you want."

Ballas: "Shut. Up. You are making me do this. And when this child is dead you and I will have words."

[cyan crest]

I mean
Yes, but I meant her identity

[subtle crown]

So did I.

[cyan crest]

After being someone for 4027493839273 years and loving someone, even because you're manipulated to do so, you kinda get attached to being that way
Even when she is Natah she still loves us, and I mean at the end of the quest

[cyan crest]

Having 3 people inside of her kinda made her 3 personas influence each othet

[molten crystal]

What kind of mucked up Stockholm Syndrome ass relationship do we have

[cyan crest]

42% of the players are wrong

[subtle crown]

One that usually requires a LOT of therapy and deprogramming.

[molten crystal]

Her voice is slightly different with the Margulis skin as well

[subtle crown]

Hence "robot with boobs"

[molten crystal]

It's nice to have an actual face guiding us

[cyan crest]

All the skins change her voice in a way

[supple dagger]

Except Ballas also knows he's being cruel. He doesn't understand them, but know how to make a mask and appear unassuming.

[cyan crest]

She is a robot with boobs in all of them wdym

[molten crystal]

Wot

Aight, time to farm hella plat

[cyan crest]

Radiant Lotus gives her the normal Lotus voice so that's bad

[subtle crown]

Her voice actor is Rebecca.
Margulis = no filter.
Lotus = normal filter.
Natah = most filter.
Eidolon Lotus = "radio slightly out of tune" with Lotus filter.

[molten crystal]

"Tenno, forget your current objective, watch the Devstream"

[supple dagger]

"You are here to capture a target and bring them in for interrogation"
captures target
"Change of plans: watch the Devstream"

[molten crystal]

"You beat the Grustag Three, impressive, but Tenno, next time watch the Prime Time"

Does Lotus simultaneously guide all the Tenno who are in missions? That's some serious management skills

[swift pond]

"Tenno, I need you to go into Corpus data vaults and retrieve the Twitch Prime rewards"

[subtle crown]

So, fun fact. Early on in the game she wasn't "the lotus" but one member of the lotus network.

[molten crystal]

Also, do we just assume that all the other Tenno, other than our Operator, just automatically wake up from the Second Dream, and get Void Powers post The New War? Like imagine a line of ships at Lua, each Warframe waking up their operator and carrying them to their respective Orbiter

[subtle crown]

Sort of.

[cyan crest]

Leaving them in Lua after the second dream would be stupidly dangerous

[subtle crown]

Some quests all Tenno go through. Other quests only our Tenno does them while other Tenno are off doing different things.

[molten crystal]

Then do we also assume every Tenno has their own Cephalon?

So many friends for Ordis

[subtle crown]

We know they do.

Ordis is a cephalon for all Tenno ships.

[cyan crest]

Awakening is possibly very similar for all tenno, but with differences here and there

[cyan crest]

Is he?

[molten crystal]

I truly hope we get to see Tenno NPCs in AoZ , I already miss Terolee and Berryn from New War

[subtle crown]

It was part of his punishment.

[cyan crest]

To be the one for a ship, for the operator
But the one for every ship?

[molten crystal]

I think each Tenno has a different one

[subtle crown]

We each have our own copy.

[molten crystal]

I mean they gave each Tenno their own huge ass Orbiter, why not Cephalon

[molten crystal]

Can Cepahlons be copied like that?

[subtle crown]

Jordas copies himself over to other ships to spread his infestation.

[cyan crest]

Cephalons being able to be copied kind of undermines their status as non artificial intelligences
And I mean, only Jordas ever talked about copying himself and he was infested
Although iirc he only says there are others, not that he actually copies himself

Mmm, imma check his quotes

[molten crystal]

Now that begs the questions, were all cephalons people once?

[cyan crest]

Yes

[molten crystal]

What kind of person was Simaris?

Imma build a zoo, but like of people

[subtle crown]

All cephalons live in the weave. For all we know "being installed in multiple ships" might simply connect each ship to the same cephalon.

[molten crystal]

But Ordis' fragments only seem to refer to a singular operator, he never says he is plugged into the ship of every Tenno

[cyan crest]

This is what he says about other infested cephalons

And yes I checked his quotes outside his quest

[subtle crown]

Yes, they are all Jordas. He was originally a corpus transport ship cephalon who somehow became infested in the weave. He spreads himself by taking over other ships, pretending nothing is wrong and gradually infecting the new ship as well.

Wether it's a weave hivemind or the infested hivemind is unknown.

[cyan crest]

And how do you know they're all Jordas?

[subtle crown]

Their name?

[cyan crest]

?

[subtle crown]

They are all jordas golems.

[cyan crest]

Are you talking about the mission replays?

[subtle crown]

The eris boss and the infested raid.

"The Jordas verdict"

Jordas lied to us, he wasn't the last of his kind and now a new much larger Golem looms. Destroy this menace before it reproduces any further.

[molten crystal]

I think it'd make for a more interesting world if each Tenno had their own Cephalon. We havs Ordis, someone as Edwis, someone as Morris, someone as Chassis but some poor Tenno has a Karen

Operator, I'd like to speak to Lotus

[subtle crown]

The Jordas verdict big boss was "J3 Jordas Golem"

[molten crystal]

Maybe Jordas was integrated into the infested hivemind and then replicated, since the virus is now capable of infecting technology

[subtle crown]

Yeah, how the original Jordas became infested is a huge unknown.

[molten crystal]

What was the original Jordas' function? A Tenno Cephalon perhaps?

Although the ship he was on was Corpus

Then again Corpus are thieves

But Darvo also says something about selling Cephalons so maybe Corpus make Cephalons with Solaris brains

[craggy drum]

I mean… Cephalons are just digitised minds often stripped of things that wouldn’t benefit their purpose as a cephalon.

At that point they’re really just data. Being able to copy/paste them makes sense. Considering the sheer a,lint of things that would have needed Cephalons during the Orokin Era, having the same Cephalon duplicated to serve the same purpose (like a ship Cephalon) would save a lot of time and effort compared to if they had to get a band new Cephalon for every single thing.

[molten crystal]

Tenno: The Corpus never fight their battles, watch out for robotics.

Also Tenno: Sitting cozily in the Orbiter while making the Warframe fight their battles

[craggy drum]

They don’t have the means to make Cephalons. All they use are remnants from the Orokin Era.

Cephalons require glassing and only one guy could do that

[cyan crest]

According to cordy, Cephs can put certain parts of themselves to different tasks at once iirc
Not exactly copying but similar enough I guess

[molten crystal]

TBH glassing seems to be his solution for everything, remember Gara Prime's trailer?

"Glass her, for her presumption" cried Nihil

[kind epoch]

who got glassed and became simaris

[cyan crest]

Simaris

We only know his name was Irmis

[molten crystal]

Some sick zookeeper

Who became Cy

[cyan crest]

Someone

[molten crystal]

"I get to be a Cephalon. Yay."

Cy, probably

[kind epoch]

A space captain with PTSD

[molten crystal]

Cy probably asks his PTSD to take 5

[zenith jacinth]

I mean, the tenno is controlling the warframe

[molten crystal]

Were the Tenno aware they're dreaming and controlling the Warframes back during the Old War? Or was that itself a Second Dream?

[swift pond]

It would be fine if Crewman transferred into their MOAs, but they wouldn't have the decency smh

[molten crystal]

They can do that?

[supple dagger]

they were not... as far as i know...

Tenno were completely aware that were controlling frames

[zenith jacinth]

It was a joke

[molten crystal]

So the Warframes going to sleep, post-war, was Third Dream

[cyan crest]

They only aren't aware after the very long dream Lotus put us through

[cyan crest]

Whaaaaat

[molten crystal]

The Operator's line in Second Dream seem to allude they weren't

[subtle crown]

Ready for some trauma? The initial dream they knew they were in a dream like state. The second dream the Tenno thought they woke up but didn't actually. Instead the second dream the warframes were their body and their body basically ceased to feel anything.

[zenith jacinth]

Nah, that was the 42nd dream

[cyan crest]

You can see them awake very deep into the old war in the Erra cutscene, so...

[molten crystal]

Until suddenly they witnessed their own body flop on the ground in Lua

[subtle crown]

So early on in the second dream they still knew they were tenno jumping between warframes. However as things went on and they spent so long they forgot they had an actual body.

[molten crystal]

Look at their eyes, they don't seem so awake

[supple dagger]

The Second Dream days the opposite. The Tenno were entirely aware of the things going on around then

[subtle crown]

The first dream is like that.

[molten crystal]

Brb gotta read the transcript

[cyan crest]

what
how is having your eyes be black and react to the environment and things happening not being awake

[subtle crown]

Like being in a tank where you can see things happing around you but you had no way to interact with them. Only kind of wiggle your body around.

[supple dagger]

The Tenno were fully aware they still had bodies until they were put to sleep during the Collapse. We know they were running around killing things with Amps

[cyan crest]

That too, Varzia remembers us killing Dax with amps
During the collapse
So it's only after Lotus puts us to sleep that we truly stop knowing

[molten crystal]

Lotus: "The Orokin murdered Margulis - used her work to create 'Transference'. Your mind - projected into a surrogate, strong enough to withstand your power. It felt like waking up, but it was just a lucid - second dream[sic]"  (download)

"... we sought justice."

Operator: "Maybe we felt it? Maybe it didn't matter. We had a life! We embraced it. I wanted to punish those who abused their power and now I had a way."  (download)  (download)  (download)  (download)

"... we fought with honor."

Operator: "We must have known. I remembered what it was like to be afraid, to be weak. I vowed never to forget that, never to abuse what I had been given. I had a code."  (download)  (download)  (download)  (download)

"... we reached for knowledge."

Operator: "We sensed that otherness, but we embraced it. I was free as anything! Free to learn, to experience, to mean something."  (download)  (download)  (download)  (download)

"... we protected the innocent."

Operator: "It was a shadow underneath what we did. That sensation of being a victim, of being helpless. I took up the sword to protect those in need."  (download)  (download)  (download)  (download)

"... we were fearless."

Operator: "There was a sense of it, but we set fear aside. I remembered what fear did. How it turned them against us. I vowed never to be controlled by it. I was going to live, or die, with honor."  (download)  (download)  (download)  (download)

They seem to be only vaguely be aware

They aren't sure either

[molten crystal]

Are they reacting tho? Seem to be just mimicking the Lotus

[cyan crest]

They seem completely horrified when killing Erra

[molten crystal]

https://youtu.be/wzYKUboM41s

[supple dagger]

None of those lines really imply they didn't know they were still people

[molten crystal]

They seem absolutely non-chalant, except our operator who frowns slightly

[molten crystal]

It implies that they must've known which means they aren't exactly sure, only parta of them slipped into the dream, like feeling powerless and all that

[cyan crest]

Ehem ehem

Also they founded the schools in the old war
Which give operators more power and that stuff

[subtle crown]

"She put us into the dream, brought us peace. I remember we could still hear her voice, raging at the leaders for their mistreatment of us."

"The Orokin murdered Margulis - used her work to create 'Transference'. Your mind - projected into a surrogate, strong enough to withstand your power. It felt like waking up, but it was just a lucid - second dream"
The second dream transcript.

[molten crystal]

That makes no sense, amps are made of Eidolon pieces and assembled by Quill operatives, how can there be Quill operatives before the War? And the Tenno didn't even have their Void powers up till War Within

[subtle crown]

Dude, this all happened pre-collapse.

1000 years ago.

[molten crystal]

How did they get amps back then?

[cyan crest]

That the quills re discovered how to make amps doesn't mean they invented it
Also, not necessarily eidolon pieces, sentient pieces

[subtle crown]

Ask Varzia.

she is the single point that says "operators were walking around back then" when the whole rest of the game says the direct opposite.

[cyan crest]

Also, Amps only require you to have the basic void beam, which we kept even with Margulis' mental thingy

[subtle crown]

Before Varzia operators were basically locked into the lotus pods.

After Varzia apparently some were running about somehow.

[cyan crest]

To be fair it only says they were running around in the collapse, not during the war per se
Still, they did found the schools that are semi-operator exclusive in the old war so they must have known

[molten crystal]

The Tenno didn't have the ability to hop outta their frames and blast people up till the War Within, they were locked tight in their pods in Lua. Margulis had locked away all our powers.

[subtle crown]

Exactly.

Happy continuity error.

[molten crystal]

Maybe she didn't mean operator amps per say, maybe Amps are some kind of weapons

Or maybe Dax found the Tenno in Zariman and got blasted

The Tenno had outbursts and shiz, prolly killed a Dax or two, Ember Prime's Codex entry says so

Or maybe Varzia's head got sorta crushed when Erra held it

[cyan crest]

To be fair we could work around things, as this was the collapse and Varzia was stationed on Lua
Maybe Lotus woke some operators to kill some Dax in Lua that time and then put them back in their place, and that's what Varzia saw? It's difficult

[subtle crown]

"Not looking to settle any old scores with your kind, Tenno. Working with Aya... I saw the way your amps carved people I loved in two. Don't think I didn't. But... we're all different people now."
Unfortunately it's pretty set in its "operators are now up and running about" when the rest of the game said they weren't.

[molten crystal]

Varzia probably heard Tenno talking about Amps and assumed that's what a weapon is called

[subtle crown]

Even if she just used Aya to see memories of Tenno using amps to hurt people, them being people she loved after 1000 years of cryosleep is... eesh.

[molten crystal]

Dammit DE, now watch as we creatively try to come up with solutions to this darn oversight

[subtle crown]

You might. I'm not going to bother.

[cyan crest]

Perhaps this was training, when they were still being treated by Margey, and accidentally killed a Dax or 2?
And Varzia mistook the void beam with an Amp?

[molten crystal]

Operator: "We were dangerous, broken. Every time they tried to fix us, someone always got hurt. I wish I could have saved them. I wish I could have taken their fear away."

Aha

[trim tree]

Ow man. DE please make different cephalons a cosmetic option. Like for map apps. I’m sick of Ordis lines. Also works out that with the there are different Tenno around.

[subtle crown]

If anything I would love for her to describe the kind of "amps" she saw. The Sirocco is an amp despite barely being one.

Then the Sirocco was made within the void, not outside it.

[molten crystal]

When she said amp she prolly just meant the Void beam

[subtle crown]

Or just a void gun.

Or a void powered sword.

[cyan crest]

How did the drifter find the Sirocco anyway?

[subtle crown]

Drifter custom built it.

[molten crystal]

Yeah, maybe she's talking about the Warframes using their powers to slice Dax in half like seen in the intro with Exalted Blade and all that

[frail nymph]

Can we now be confident that all future content will be entirely post New War?

Main story content I mean

[subtle crown]

Main story, yes.

[frail nymph]

So basically no expansion on the events of New War like the initial war against sentients, the fall of Narmer from grineer/corpus POV, the fall of the system against Narmer, etc?

[subtle crown]

Outside of an exposition dump, probably not.

[frail nymph]

Hmm... I wonder what we'll have in the future of Warframe, then... Sentient forces seem to be gone for good in terms of actually formidable threats, given all the corpses everywhere... I guess the Void is gonna open up for exploration

[supple dagger]

Nothing says we were locked into the pods

Especially since we still had orbiters set up with the Somatic Link

[frail nymph]

Like we might have some cleanup content for sentient fights... If Erra survived, he might end up creating anything between situations for mass cordination events or raid worthy bosses. But no real invasion at this point, not enough to drive to story

[frail nymph]

What do you mean by "before Varzia?"

[cyan crest]

Before Varzia said anything

[frail nymph]

Oh right

[zenith jacinth]

Erra seems to not be entirely stupid, he should hopefully realize that being our ally is a smarter option

[cyan crest]

Focus on entirely

He is kinda stupid

[zenith jacinth]

Amps existed since the old war

[frail nymph]

Well I doubt one can conclude that they were "permanently locked" in pods even if Varzia is ignored. Like the entire concept of amps wouldn't really exist...

Onkko would have to be a suitable inventor of amps, otherwise... Even though Hunhows dialogue about chiseling weapons from Sentient Bones long predated him

[zenith jacinth]

(This is an answer to the stuff below it)

[supple dagger]

Nothing even says Operators weren't running around themselves during the Old War

[kind epoch]

Quill Onkko would probably not be the inventor, but possibly an innovator

[subtle crown]

So they were jumping in and out of the pods despite being so incredibly secretive many people thought of them as mere ghost stories?

I had been, until then, a Tenno denier. They were ghosts, propaganda, twisted casualties of the void era. Not possibly real. Yet here it was in the flesh. The Empire, in their desperation, was going to turn the demons loose and hope for the best. Who did we fear more, the enemy or this monster? We had our safeties off, could we trust it? Then it didn't matter anymore. The punch came - and our windows became blinding. When we could see again our ship was somewhere else, shattered and dead in an instant.
Mag prime codex.

[cyan crest]

There must be a reason for there to be a somatic link in the orbiters now that I think about it

[zenith jacinth]

Varzia half-confirms the opposite to be true

[cyan crest]

One thing doesn't exactly contradict the other
They can be secretive and be deployed in operator form
And to be honest, deploying them in operator form is the best way to take advantage of void beams and that stuff

[zenith jacinth]

Was it varzia? I forgor

[subtle crown]

Yes, Varzia.

[cyan crest]

Depends on what you're talking about

[subtle crown]

She is the one "they were running about".

[zenith jacinth]

I think that's just people calling warframes tenno

[subtle crown]

Prior to her introduction there was no mention of the kids being outside the pods.

The frames were running about if you were in the know. But the kids were still super hush hush. They were an embarrassment after the failed void jump.

[cyan crest]

Then again, we only technically have confirmation of them running around killing people during the collapse, not before

[frail nymph]

We were specifically talking about ignoring Varzia and what that would mean for the pre-varzia lore.

[frail nymph]

Lotus did have some Tenno in bodyguard/turret mode in Erra cinematic so it's not completely unprecedented for them to ever be outside for at least non-combat reasons...

[trim tree]

Has anyone made like a timeline of events infographic somewhere?

The timing of old war events really confusing

[frail nymph]

Btw the fall of the Sentients at the end of New War was ridiculously quick... Especially compared to Tenno fighting sentients for "Several Lifetimes" before Umbra was even made.

I guess Lotus making them stand down is a crucial thing but even then...

[frail nymph]

The main issue is that there are things that are ambiguous even today

Like the whether the Zariman launch was before/after the initial creation of whatever machines evolved into sentients