spoiler-chat

[cyan crest]

The prime weapons were used alongside normal tenno weapons in the old war, if the cinematic intro is to be believed
Status was lost likely the thing that said who got to use which

[real niche]

For frames theres no telling whether the Prime came first or not, so that can be extrapolated to the weapons

[heavy obsidian]

I was going for this choice as well

[olive rapids]

Well valkyr is an odd case

[supple dagger]

She's not

[cyan crest]

She is not, not really

[olive rapids]

Seems to be some alternate timeline stuff

[cyan crest]

No

[supple dagger]

It's really isn't

[clear wedge]

where i can share my stream?

[supple dagger]

Valkyr was made by the Orokin like every other frame

[cyan crest]

Android has a big thread in the deleted channel about this

[thick jolt]

Nowhere as far as i know

[cyan crest]

But it's deleted

[real niche]

Making Valkyr Prime not based on Gersemi was a shame...

[olive rapids]

Then what was the point of her first deluxe? It seems to be the one that was experimented on, to become the default valkyr that we farm from alad v

[cyan crest]

She has a few elements from gersemi but yeah

[supple dagger]

Except it is. Valk Prime has bits from both Gersemi and regular skin

[cyan crest]

And Prime is completely unrelated to Gersemi, yeah
As in, they are not the same same frame
Prime is older, if anything

[real niche]

I mean fully

[heavy obsidian]

Ikr

[fleet veldt]

Inb4 Prime Deluxe skins being a thing in a future.

[real niche]

Prime was made to look like regular just for consistency's sake on the dev's part

[craggy drum]

Sone frames started as Primes, others earned it.

Valkyr started prime. The Gersemni skin was the standard look of the non primed Valkyr, then a Valkyr got captured and had most of her outer shell stripped away by Salad V

[past kiln]

The only frame that wasn’t made by the Orokin is Caliban

[fleet veldt]

That looks questionable and I don't get why it is related to lore/spoilers.

[cyan crest]

And experiment Valkyr then became the common Valk for some reason
Still, yeah, this

[fleet veldt]

That and Revenant are going to be interesting.

[olive rapids]

I was picturing it be some sort of eternalism thing

[real niche]

Hey, Nidus got a Prime so whatever goes

Eternalism was long after many primes were put in place

[supple dagger]

That isn't how that works

[past kiln]

Standard can come before primed

[cyan crest]

Nidus presents no problem with prime nidus

[past kiln]

^

[supple dagger]

There's nothing wrong with Nidus having a Prime, seriously

[olive rapids]

Speaking of nidus prime, why does he have what looks to be a miter blade sticking out of his chest?

[cyan crest]

[past kiln]

Base nidus was first
Ballas liked it so he gave it a prime
simple

[fleet veldt]

Nidus (Prime) is Infested, Infested were cultivated as a side-product of the Warframe Project and as another attempt to have a tthe Sentient.

[supple dagger]

We literally know nothing about Nidus other than being an Old War relic

[ionic sleet]

We do not allow the promotion of streamers here, sorry.

[real niche]

Ive had interactions with people kept acting like it was an issue (along with quest frames like Haroow) for the longest time, then subsequently shut it when their Primes came out and then moved on to the next

[cyan crest]

And his prime trailer

[olive rapids]

The prime's design does give us some clues imo

[cyan crest]

Ballas liked him, which is neat to know

[supple dagger]

He doesn't, it's just a ridge

[past kiln]

with varzia’s line any frame can have a prime

[craggy drum]

All frames are Infested… Nidus is just.,, extra Infested-y

And the Infestation had been created long before the Warframes were created

[olive rapids]

Um, no? It's at a 45° angle

[supple dagger]

Nidus has a similar ridge

[olive rapids]

Right upper torso when looking at him head on

[thick jolt]

Always looked at it as a remnant of a sash

[olive rapids]

The spikes are what intrigued me

It looks so similar to a saw blade.

[supple dagger]

It's not

[cyan crest]

It's just overgrown infestation if anything

[olive rapids]

I do have a small theory on it. Take this with a lot of salt, because it's a bit crackpot.

[supple dagger]

I've been looking at him head on since the Prime came out, there's no saw

[cyan crest]

Best theories are dumb theories that know they are dumb, go

[supple dagger]

Nothing golden besides his arm and chest ridge either, and minor bits

[olive rapids]

It could be overgrown infestation. Yes. But the way its designed is still unique

As if it was growing over something lodged within.

So, what if it was something that got stuck in the frame during its tests, and the infestation simply grew over it? (And by tests, I mean like the kind that rhino prime was subjected to.)

[cyan crest]

That would make sense
I mean, the spike thingy doesn't really need an explanation but that's a good one

[thick jolt]

Rhino prime codex is about a proto frame since its still described as having a mouth not necessarily about rhino prime

[autumn turret]

honestly i was looking at them the other day, it kinda is

[real niche]

😐

[frail nymph]

No no, it seems like Zariman might have predated the whole sentient stuff. "The Plan" from the crewman synthesis entry was to go to Tau, and apparently older missions related to The Plan had failed.

It doesn't make much sense for Orokin to send a whole colony of people to a place they thought was most likely full of rebel robots

[cyan crest]

It doesn't make any sense to send them to a place they thought was barren and uninhabitable
If the sentients were there, they would think they'd be fulfilling their duty and terraforming, not having rebelled yet

[craggy drum]

Don’t think they’d bother with a colony ship if Tau wasn’t terraformed to be able to support human life.

I think the Zariman was sent some time before the Sentients became sentient. At a time where some of the planets of Tau would be habitable.

Then the Zariman got lost in the jump. Any records about it being a colony mission were scrubbed and sometime later the Sentients went all rebellious

[frail nymph]

The main point of the sentients was to build the Solar rail, not just to terraform. And the solar rail was necessary because other expeditions had failed.

It's not that hard to start a colony on a planet even without terraforming for someone as advanced as Orokin

Why would Zariman not use the Solar rail if it was fully built?

[craggy drum]

No they were made to do both. To build the Solar Rail as they travelled and once they got to Tau, to terraform it so it would be ready and the Orokin could just use the Rail to get straight there to a system already altered to suit their needs/wants

[frail nymph]

They were made to terraform, yes. But their main benefit was the rails. Orokin can set up colonies and even terraform just fine without sentients

[cyan crest]

The main point was both to terraformed and build the rail
However, the zariman was a railless ship, basically a big Railjack, so the time is messy
Margulis was alive when the sentients came, that's for sure, and then there is the fact that the tenno were seemingly kept in cryo storage for a long time before the connection with the frames was made...
This is messy...

[frail nymph]

Terraforming was a main use of the Sentients, yes.

I'm talking about their contribution to the plan itself.
Like even without Terraforming capabilities, the Sentients would have been equally crucial to the plan.

Cause the Orokin would just have done the Terraforming part anyway, albeit not in a red carpet fashion.
Meanwhile without the adaptation and solar rail building capabilities, the Sentients would be pointless even with the best Terraforming ability.

[ivory surge]

I was going around my somachord to chill a bit and then I found "For Narmer": nice tune and calm. I knew it was from the New War but I've never heard

and that's when i remembered... I had my music turned off

it was supposed to play during the Fortuna part and I totally missed it

[opal rapids]

Imagine watching that really slow cutscene into Fortuna without it

[wicked pike]

Bruh

Also my friend finally got their but in gear to play the second dream and had their music off too and I was just where is the music

[mental fossil]

I wish Ballas' hat was also a reward for completing the new war

And the Narmer veil too

[ivory surge]

"yo this new VR headset looks sick!"

[opal rapids]

"New VR headset cured my depression, ask me how"

[low badger]

I need help with the new war quest: ||I'm at the ballas boss fight (see screenshot) and I have no idea what to do in this part, before this there were balls that I had to make ballas shoot but now theres just nothing and ballas keeps shooting me with a laser||

[viral palm]

Dodge laser. Break his balls again

[low badger]

but there arent any

I'm looking everywhere around but cant see any

heres another screenshot showing another angle:

[past kiln]

Ballas’ new war outfit looks cool and it’s a shame we didn’t get the entire thing

[viral palm]

Hm. There may be a time where you have to bop him with your amp. But besides that all I remember is break balls, dodge, break balls.

[low badger]

yea thats what I was doing before but after 3/4 of his health down the balls just didnt appear

I've been stuck here for like 10 minutes trying to figure out if theres anything to make him shoot at

[viral palm]

Lotus isn't doing anything?

[low badger]

just laying on the ground

[viral palm]

This is the extent of my expertise.

[low badger]

maybe I should ask in a more active channel to see if someone there knows what to do

[viral palm]

Watching a quest playthrough will also help

[low badger]

I guess my game is bugged cause just watched a playtrough and there should be one last ball to make him shoot at

[thick jolt]

This is the proper channel for this kinda spoiler so probably not a good idea

[junior tartan]

Idfk why, but I'm stuck on the Broken Plates thing on the new war on my main account

[vapid delta]

How to get platinum?

I need a clan to join

Am on ps4

[ivory surge]

get the ps4 role and you should see a ps4 clan recruitment channel

[wicked iron]

You can get Platinum by buying it, or trading things to other players for it. #757632548842111086 go there and choose Playstation as your platform, and you will unlock the clan recruitment channel for it. 🙂

[vapid delta]

Oh cool thanks

[wicked pike]

Replaying the new war and is it ever really explained (yet) why the narmer masks show margulotus to Drifter who theoretically has no idea who she is??

[supple dagger]

Drifter is able to either have limited access to Operator mentors or the ability to observe us

[real niche]

Looking through the quest again, nothing concrete about how Drifter knows about Operator things.

[ivory surge]

Now that I think at it again, Drifter knows what Operator is doing, but not the other way around

[icy ore]

I think, because balls banished ope in the void, Ope and Drifter swaps, so Drifter has little memory about what ope knows + what has happened for X years between the start and the end of the quest. That’s why one knows about the other but not in the other way

[ivory surge]

was the missing "a" in Ballas intentional or not?

either way nice

but yeah that's possible

[icy ore]

Yes and no

[torpid lantern]

I don't think there's anything in the quest that implies the Drifter can see or knows anything about what the Operator is doing. They don't share memories (aka why they don't know about Ballas) and only know what's going on from Ordis and other details they picked up over the years while they were helping Lotus.
I think people kinda forget that the Drifter is WAY older in terms of mental age. The operator had the advantage of cryosleep but the Drifter didn't so they have all those years of experience and intuition to help them figure things out. They also probably know a lot more about the void and how it works because of how/where they've lived.

[torpid lantern]

The Drifter had Ordis who could explain everything that happened to the operator. That's how they know. And probably why they act as if they've known Ordis a really long time. Because they've been working with him for all the years of Narmer.

[torpid lantern]

I think it's because the mask was mistaking the Drifter to be the same person as the Operator and thus using information relevant to that timeline. It can't distinguish a difference. The concept of alt-dimensions doesn't really work with technology because it's not able to process it the same way we do.

I'd wager this is also how the Drifter was able to break free from the mask too. Because the stuff they were being show didn't actually have any impact on them since that wasn't their own past.

[odd depot]

Steve said something to that effect on Twitter IIRC

[wicked iron]

Did he? I must scrounge through his Tweeeterrrrrr!

https://twitter.com/sj_sinclair/status/1472976085130350596?cxt=HHwWiMC4zb_8h_EoAAAA

Steve Sinclair (@sj_sinclair)

@StallordD Def one I dithered on :) ... ultimately went with that yep. Veil is not eternalism-aware. Felt it was more important the audience understands the deception and reinforce known characters than to muddy with things not yet experienced.

Twitter · Dec 20, 2021, 5:03 PM

Found it.

[supple dagger]

My issue with that is that, as seen, that means the mask somehow draws from a collective memory bank for it to know exactly the narrative to tell whoever it on

[torpid lantern]

Look at that! I was right!!!

I didnt even know he tweeted that

Made my day

[vapid delta]

How to get animals?

[kindred briar]

what kind?

[gritty pike]

if you are asking companions, you can get a kubrow from a quest near the beginning.

kavats are found in demos missions, and you need to scan them with a 50% chance of getting a dna sample, which you need 10.

If you are trying to do the perfect animal capture, then go to biz in fortuna, get a tranq rifle, and just run around the map aiming in with the rifle and look for animals that glow a bright red. That's the best way to get perfect animal captures.

[gritty pike]

^

[vapid delta]

I got 2

Artax

Taxon

But I needed a doggy🥺

[sturdy condor]

Normal doggy or zombo doggy?

[gritty pike]

do the quest howl of the kubrow, you will get the incubator segment then and get your first dog

you unlock it after one of the junctions, I forget which one.

[ionic sleet]

In future, please take questions like these to #players-helping-players
This channels is for discussing spoilers and assumes you've done all available story quests.

[mental fossil]

It was 3 am, it was completely dark in my house, i went to the bathroom, stared at the mirror and said: "man in the wall, man in the wall, man in the wall". What happens next?

[ivory surge]

you don't say it at your bathroom mirror, you say it at your bathroom wall

it's so simple

[velvet remnant]

Never done the ritual, but aren't you supposed to say "rap, tap, tap"?

[cyan crest]

No, that's what he does

[low badger]

does playing with the drifter have any differences than playing with the operator? (after the new war quest)

[ivory surge]

not that I'm aware of

[real niche]

They have a different roll and are taller, other than that, identical

[vapid delta]

Hello chat

[sharp spoke]

Hiya

[mystic hearth]

Hi

[torpid lantern]

Lol all these silly people saying that you have to say it to the wall. Don't they know you don't say it to the wall; the wall says it to you.

[kindred briar]

Wall: "hey"
Tenno: "AAAAA"

[tough path]

correction it's Wall: "Hey kiddo"

Tenno: "SHR8CHEIAOAHEUJSH AAAAAAAAH!"

[lime flame]

Turns out you get to ride vehicles in warframe. Neato

[heavy obsidian]

Pretty much

[swift pond]

Dargyns are redundant but very fun.

[steady fable]

Just finished The Old War and... I didn't understood anything I already knew. I mean, yeah it's cool to play a Grineer and have their point of view, but I already know they have some sense of rebellion ("For the Queens, Brother Kahl" and they Kahl says "For my brothers", good scene by the way) but... How the hell ||my weapon got on this battlefield|| ??? Please explain 😭

(Had to check the Wiki so I understood that "Tau" is actually another system 😭 )

[slim anvil]

it's not your weapon, it's a corinth prime from some random rhino that got either killed or deactivated by the orphix fields

[opal rapids]

it is kinda funny if you main corinth prime I guess.

[slim anvil]

default rhino players with corinth prime going through an existential crisis because of TNW

[supple dagger]

Did the new war spoilers chat get closed? Do we just talk about it here now?

[steady fable]

I WAS USING A CORINTH PRIME XDDDDD That is a freaking coincidence lmao Ok, thanks for this laughter XD

[steady fable]

Oh, am I on the wrong tchat ? Oops, didn't know there was a special chat for TNW ^^'

[supple dagger]

No no there USED to be, but I can't find it now

[steady fable]

Oh ok

[slim anvil]

nah that channel is gone, this is the tnw/AoZ channel now

[supple dagger]

That's why I'm asking for clarification

[supple dagger]

Got it

[opal rapids]

legally chat mods have said lore related to TNW can go in lore discussion but this is the new "spoilery" channel for TNW+

[steady fable]

Ok, so now my first interrogation is cleared, the next one : What are the ins and outs of the Drifter/Operator choice...? I choose Operator since Drifter said "Did you get all your Warframes back ?" and I kinda wanted to go fight Ballas with my full stuff so... since I couldn't chose regarding my own morals (because I didn't understood anything lmao) ^^'

[slim anvil]

its the same except you get drifter lines instead of operator lines

[opal rapids]

drifter gets a funny bit on first handling the frame.

the "did you get all your warframes back" I think was trying to figure out whre they were relative to each other, timewise.

[steady fable]

Ah crap, I would have pick Drifter then... :/

[steady fable]

But how the Drifter got on the Zariman, then...?

[opal rapids]

ah, they appear to have access to it

the whole thing is void weirdness.

sorry I'm uh, doing an eximus interception sortie

[steady fable]

Have fun, mate XD

[steady fable]

Pffffff OKAY THEN XD

[opal rapids]

so, remember, Drifter didn't get rescued. and they seem to be able to hop rides on ships. we're not sure how they get back into the void onto the Zariman buuuut

we also know, by a throwaway line, that they were on the Planes of Duviri

"Shoulda stayed in Duviri" being the line in question.

consequently we can guess that the Drifter has access to the void (Zariman), Duviri (IIRC that's a void open world?) and the Origin system.

[surreal salmon]

i just stayed in the hidout bc of the view

[steady fable]

So, Drifter-choice would be what happens if Eidolon-Lotus don't recognize the Tenno, and then forcing them to run away to the Zariman. And the Operator-choice would be "what if Eidolon-Lotus recognized the Tenno"

[opal rapids]

honestly? it doesn't matter what you choose. it was just kind of a "should I finish this myself? or should I let you finish this because you've been handlingi t so well?" moment.

[surreal salmon]

probally the same thing without being lasered to death

[steady fable]

Well, with the Angels of Zariman coming up soon, it may be the case ^^ The Zariman being the "hub" (like the Necralisk/Cetus/Fortuna) and Duviri being the open world ^^

[opal rapids]

so far we don't have the Duviri being reteased. the Zariman is a hub for procedurally generated worlds, not open world.

[craggy drum]

Duviri isn’t coming with AoZ, it’s coming later

[steady fable]

When I'll have the faith for it, I'll redo the quest and change this choice. Because imo the best version of someone is the last one. Plus, it's the Drifter who fought Narmer and Ballas, it's fair that they're the one finishing it.

[steady fable]

Oh ok my bad

[mental fossil]

Can someone explain to me what is that blank amp square that is at rank 26?

[steady fable]

Maybe the base one you got at the end of the Old War...? (not sure of the quest tho)

[mental fossil]

Old war?

I thought i woke up way after the old war

[opal rapids]

TNW was Sirocco. you also have Mote Amp and Prism.

[slim anvil]

i think it's an old bug
pretty sure ive seen it around

[steady fable]

As I said, I may be wrong on the quest. But I know you got a basic dull amp at some point (before you can build your own)

[opal rapids]

that was Mote.

[mental fossil]

I think i know what he means

Using your bare hand

No Amp equiped

[opal rapids]

possssible I suppose.

I am LAZY do not judge me.

[mental fossil]

Hey me too, what a coincidence

[steady fable]

Okay, thanks to the Wiki, I learned that, in fact, the Drifter is a Tenno who refused the powers of The Man In The Wall (wich makes sense to the Drifter saying "I don't have it yet" when Ordis ask about their "Tenno magic")

[mental fossil]

But i am the man in the wall

[craggy drum]

Yeah it tells you that quite clearly in The Bew War Quest during the table scene between the Drifter and Operator

[steady fable]

They do...? XD

I had this scene, but man I didn't understood anything in it XD

Thank you for all these explanations ! :3

[steady fable]

(too bad Drifter uses guns instead of hand-cannon... I like this idea of hand-cannons !)

[sturdy condor]

Still better than operator wielding a gun like arm cannon

[obtuse rune]

To bad DE decided to discard all of the Drifter's gameplay after the quest ended and turn them into a glorified Operator skin.

[steady fable]

Y'know, I always wanted/hoped for a reworked/alternate version of Survival Missions, where there effectively is a Tenno reiding the ship, and the gameplay would be a true asymetrical co-op. Like, there is one um... Warframe party throwing hands and spreading chaos across a ship (like a normal Survival mission), where an Operator do a Spy-ish mission, and the effectiv difficulty (number of ennemies, strengh of security systems etc) would depends of the efficiency of the "chaos" team... You see what I mean ?

Nothing to do with this, but will Ordis be a Sentinel you can grab on mission (like a Carrier or stuff like that)...? Would be cool ! :3 (or at least as a skin)

[obtuse rune]

Don't know but I'd equip him if he was. In Octavia's anthem, he got a kick out of fighting so I don't see why he wouldn't enjoy it now that he has a physical vessel to move around in.

[steady fable]

And he's really devoted, he needs a reward from time to time! Maybe he would befriend Loid ans Otak ! :D

[thick jolt]

That was the plan with op link and scarlet spear

There were issues iirc

Who knows it might come back one day

[obtuse rune]

Anyone else noticing that we're still getting perpetually trapped in the Landing Craft even after the hotfix that supposedly fixed it?

Getting tired of Op teleporting because I can't escape my own ship

[sturdy condor]

On drifter camp?

[obtuse rune]

yeah

[sturdy condor]

I still occasionally got it

[obtuse rune]

At least it's not just me then.

On the topic of bugs. Pointless bug I encountered the other day, if you're using the drifter camp and someone using the og version invites you to their orbiter, while you'll be able to see the space scenery, their ship will be visually leaking. Some sort of overlay issue.

[steady fable]

Never heard about this

[thick jolt]

The whole point of op-link was to link two separate squads
And the scarlet spear event was its testing grounds
It was pretty fun even with a few hiccups here and there
Guess its biggest fault was depending on having a squad doing the opposite task

[steady fable]

Yeah... But it's kinda like Railjack imo. You need to be in a voice-chat with squad mates (like friends on Discord, for exemple)...

[thick jolt]

Secretly hoping there were some op link like stuff among the "bounties" you choose before missions on the zariman

[obtuse rune]

Wasn't the other biggest fault being the slanted difficulty between ground team and space?

All I remember hearing is how easy RJ was compared to ground.

If they're picking it up again, they need to reassess they tasks and difficulty between both sides. Both squads need to contribute evenly towards the goal rather than one sitting around waiting for the other to finish, putting undue stress on the active team.

[steady fable]

What do you mean by that?

[steady fable]

Well, Crew IA is sometime better at the game than human players XD

[obtuse rune]

They didn't exist back then

But I can't argue that statement nor would I want to after the squads I've been a part of xD

[thick jolt]

Just that i see an opportunity for it
Since everyone would be in the same ship, so having a mission in one part of the ship affect another as part of those bonus objectives they mentioned we can choose just seems apropriate
But its all just a vague hope i have nothing mentioned by the devs

[subtle crown]

RJ was easy compared to ground because for a big part of it you could activate Limbo bubble and just afk.

Then RJ only had 5 waves while ground had 17.

The tradeoff is ground could send a ton of codes but the middle man that dished out codes to RJ would frequently fail.

If SS comes back then RJ will be packed to the brim with Mesa with Xaku subsume.

Ground as well.

[lime flame]

The good guys win ^-^

[swift pond]

Hey Khold, sorry to bother but if you don't mind me asking:
Do you happen to have that New War timeline/diagram showing how the events line up? I figure it could still be useful for anyone new to the quest and the time travel aspect but it was lost along with the New War spoiler chat.

[subtle crown]

I do not sorry.

[swift pond]

Ah well, worth a shot

[subtle crown]

Ahh, all those Zariman screenshots I took are gone 😦

[swift pond]

Nuuuu

All that work for naught

[subtle crown]

Ahh well. A decent part of it was nerding out over the giant architecture.

[elder mauve]

I uh... I dont think this is supposed to happen...

[wicked iron]

O_O

[subtle crown]

The joys of drifter with operator skeleton. Should fix itself soon XD

[swift pond]

Uh, oh. Ooooh... I thought they were just kneeling.

Taking the role a bit too much to heart there, Drifter my lad.

[subtle crown]

Really trying to figure out who had it worse. Being trapped in the void for a millennia or the unholy amalgamation that is the PTSD child soldiers with demonic powers they couldn't control until they were mind wiped and put into a coma.

[swift pond]

I guess we'll have to see how bad the Void is come Angles of Zariman and Duviri. It does look trippy as all get-out.

[subtle crown]

Honestly the void looks wonderfully corruptive.

[heavy obsidian]

I wonder if we're going to get armor like the Protovyre one in Angels Of Zariman, if not, no big deal

[flat shadow]

Would be pretty cool! Void wisps that follow us around? YES PLEASE!

[lavish basin]

I really hope so, but that means I’m gonna have to destroy my wallet for more plat

[swift pond]

I've accepted that I'm gonna do that already when Garuda Prime drops

[heavy obsidian]

My money is for her Accessories

[swift pond]

Same, never spend a penny on something you can get for free.

[lavish basin]

Her wings though, they’re BEAUTIFUL

[flat shadow]

Yeah. Garuda access is a day 1 purchase for me, for sure

accessories at the very least.

[lavish basin]

If I’m not wrong, the prime access also comes with plat right? Gotta check again

[swift pond]

The wings especially. A bit torn on the armour but we'll see.

[swift pond]

Yep

[flat shadow]

Accessories do not, IIRC.

The others do. And the top level access has the best plat price short of a 75% discount. (though it's been a couple years since I ran the numbers. Might have changed.)

[swift pond]

Wait, don't they? Harrow Prime Accessories gave me a nice chunk of plats.

[lavish basin]

Oof gonna check now, but that’s still $140 :’)

[thick jolt]

Yet another difference between console and pc

[heavy obsidian]

That's why i don't go for the PA part

[subtle crown]

Accessories by themselves don't come with plat.

[flat shadow]

Might also be a difference between console and PC

[lavish basin]

The exclusive pack for $50 is pretty decent though

[lavish basin]

Does the covenant pack come with the syandana?

[subtle crown]

Yes.

[thick jolt]

Covenant pack is the everything one i believe

[subtle crown]

Covenant is frame + weapons + accessories.

[lavish basin]

Ahhh I see

[subtle crown]

If you buy the accessories then the price of the covenant pack goes down by that amount.

[lavish basin]

Or if you’re willing to wait like, 2 years, you can probably purchase Garuda prime accessories for $20 from the vault

[subtle crown]

Yes, many people wait until it's $20. Or now buy them with regal aya.

[thick jolt]

If/when that makes a return

[subtle crown]

When.

[flat shadow]

I was on hiatus when Wukong accessories were on sale. Need to get that one.

DE mentioned that the Prime Resurgence had an incredibly positive outcome, so I expect it will be back in some form or another.

[thick jolt]

The accessories i wanted were the prime ephemeras but they are far too recent

[subtle crown]

Even before regal aya came with plat it was still a super popular event. Then when plat was added it was even better.

So now the devs get the "wallet exclusive" cosmetics from prime accessories at a slightly better rate because I don't want to wait 3 years for the proper rerun to get the thing I want and the other thing I don't want instead of regal aya for the same cost where I only buy the thing I want.

[swift pond]

I had my grumbles with the event, but being able to pick and choose alone makes it worthwhile. Much as I hated the prices of Regal Aya, getting 3 cosmetics (maybe 4-5) for £30 is much better value than 2 for £50.

[heavy obsidian]

Target farming is a good way to unvault stuff

[subtle crown]

The regal aya price was based on how a prime access rerun was $20 for cosmetics that would usually cost 3 regal aya. I think out of the 18 frames only one of them would have cost 4 regal aya.

[swift pond]

I'd still argue it's better value when you can skip cosmetics you don't want (sugatras come to mind)

[subtle crown]

100%

But yeah, the price point makes sense. Like right now banshee prime accessories. A syandana and sentinel armour. 1 aya and 2 aya respectively. $20USD.

[lavish basin]

What’s the price for regal Aya again? Never bothered to buy it during the event but I’m interested now

[subtle crown]

$20 = 3 RA + 200p
$40 = 7 RA + 400p
$80 = 15RA + 1200p

Meanwhile a rerun prime accessory pack looks like this:

[swift pond]

Wait why is the sayandana 1 aya and the sentinel stuff 2?
Subjective value I know but sayandanas are more sought after than sentinel bits surely.

[subtle crown]

Because I can't read.

Syandana is 2 aya and the sentinel stuff is 1 aya.

[swift pond]

Gotcha

[subtle crown]

Like I can't wait for Zephyr to become part of prime resurgence. Still want that operator suit.

And much like the liset prime, that ugly kavat armour can go unpurchased.

[swift pond]

sweats in purchased the Liset Prime

[subtle crown]

It's spelt "loading screen prime" 😛

[errant charm]

I have the Wipeout landing craft skin err I mean the Zephyr one.

and I call it that because it looks like something from Wipeout series of racing games.

[torpid lantern]

It looks like a hot wheels car!

[cyan crest]

And the Zephyr skin looks like a Gundam from certain angles

[thick jolt]

Lots of angles tbh

[cyan crest]

all the angles

[subtle crown]

And the outer vest looks like instant ramen quilted inside cling film 😄

[cyan crest]

what

[swift pond]

And the name of the set just reminds me of Space Harrier, if anyone knows what that was.

[cyan crest]

At least the Harrier landing craft has an actual cockpit

Unlike literally any other landing craft which is just
The ship
Nothing else

[real niche]

It doesn't need to be more than that

The Landing Craft itself might as well be the cockpit to the Orbiter

[cyan crest]

That only really applies to the liset since the others just don't fit the shape or size
Also we see it in the drifter's camp

[real niche]

Eh just jam it in there itll be fine

[cyan crest]

Which ironically uses all landing crafts

[torpid lantern]

which makes me kinda wonder how they transfer between anding craft and orbiter in space

[real niche]

The top part with the ramp that goes down is the Landing Craft, everything else is the Orbiter

Unless you mean non-Liset Landing Crafts

[cyan crest]

attach in port and use ramp
The thing is
How do things work with landing crafts that clearly don't support the liset interior?

The harrier one even has a very noticeable cockpit
Where is it when you are inside?
So many questions, so little logic

[kindred briar]

the landing craft physics follow the rule of cool

the laws of thermodynamics have no say here

[swift pond]

Operator, in this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics!

[supple dagger]

The Orbiter likely can just reconfigure the connection. It's only liset because DE couldn't get animation done

[sly plinth]

since we're on the topic of the orbiter and landing crafts, did anyone else notice that in the drifter's camp the ramp is closed in the landing craft and then there is a magic second ramp which is down in the orbiter half.

[cyan crest]

Makes sense that there would be 2 ramps in case something like what happened on the quest happens
One ramp would go on top of the other to make sense

[autumn turret]

also it makes sense to lower a ramp onto a ramp

[fleet veldt]

Probably part of how the Landing Craft docks to the Orbiter generally.

[errant charm]

It’s possible the orbiter has other bays for other craft.

Or non liset shaped landing craft are purely game things.

[supple dagger]

It's definitely something that can be done

[torpid lantern]

I'm super familiar with the set up, lol so yep, I meant non-liset. It can't dock with the orbiter so I'm wondering how that'd actually work in space.

[real niche]

Like I said, just jam it in there, it'll be fine

[torpid lantern]

Who says it doesn't fit. Just needs some good ol' fashion elbow grease

[autumn turret]

the implcation with the drifter camp is that all landing craft dock to the orbitor

[fleet veldt]

They probably share the same dock and/or use some kind of large-scale Forma-based process that allows them to still dock as if they were the same Landing Craft.

[opal rapids]

Landing craft forma when

[fleet veldt]

We technically already have it - the ability to mix-match Landing Craft abilities to any Landing Craft appearance we want.

[opal rapids]

Which is nice now

[supple dagger]

We do know other ships can dock with the Orbiter, DE was explicit in that. They just couldn't get animations done so they left it as is

[torpid lantern]

If so then mayhaps they do some sort of grave beam or something like they're using in the drifter camp to send people to and fro.

[runic schooner]

its game and science fiction logic, so yeah anything can be possible

i guess

[digital siren]

Warframe tends to run by technology vauge enough to do anything

[past kiln]

see: narmer veils, literally anything that relates to the void

[mortal musk]

OH GOD I LOVE THIS GAME SO MUCH......ITS UNHEALTHY 🤣

[frail nymph]

Bruh, I need to learn my lesson about discord threads...
Some dude straight up said that nobody who spends thousands of hours grinding actually likes the game and that it's all a sunk costs fallacy. That nobody should like Warframe and grind should not be considered content by anybody.

I debunked it showing that if you like the grind it's not even a cost for you, and compared "getting archon weapons from Narmer bounties for the sake of new shiny" to "rerolling a riven even after multiple rerolls because your chances seem to be better now" which would actually be sunk costs related.

And the guy just replied that I was "harassing him" with novels and that I should leave alone people who don't like the game and blocked me. As if the entire conversation didn't begin with him trying to gaslight everybody that dares to like Warframe.

Sorry a bit of a vent but yeah

[runic schooner]

umm... why is this in spoiler chat?

[frail nymph]

Narmer bounties

I guess it's a spoiler... I'm not sure

[runic schooner]

well u have a point i guess

[ivory surge]

spoiler venting

new trend

[frail nymph]

xD

BTW in the original 2019 plan, Deimos was not gonna be before New War and Duviri...

Is it possible Angels of Zariman was also not gonna be before Duviri?

It feels like a sideways expansion rather than a story continuation, all contained in the Zariman

[subtle crown]

Angels was always post new war pre duviri.

Deimos being bumped up was mostly "this is taking 2 years longer than expected, bump up that open world project"

[ivory surge]

I mean, it would make sense if AoZ would be released after then New war. "hey you've just saved the system, here's your own apartment to relax for a bit :)"

[frail nymph]

I guess we gotta wait for the content to be out to know for sure whether it leads into Duviri...
Who knows, maybe Duviri cannot possibly be before AoZ like how Sacrifice cannot be before TSD

[frail nymph]

Well yeah we all agree New War itself was always first

[subtle crown]

Angels of Zariman is basically the link between our first visit to the Zariman and the subsequent journey to the planes.

[frail nymph]

I feel it's more of a "we have no motion capture and we're working for home so we don't know when we'll be able to finish New War. We should prioritize Deimos instead." They mentioned the MoCap thing in Devstreams and We got no cinematic content of any form throughout 2020

I doubt New War was feasible to really work on in 2020.

[frail nymph]

But isn't the Duviri Paradox about Drifter being new to the planes of Duviri? That already happened, chronologically speaking

[subtle crown]

New War was planned to release years before it did. The devs talking about Deimos being bumped up spoke directly about how while the Planes was planned to be the 3rd open world there is simply too much narrative setup.

So instead of a void open world we got an infested open world and new war got to have even more focus put into it due to the lack of a time crunch.

[frail nymph]

Yeah New War quest was gonna be 2019, and Railjack pushed it into 2020. Then Covid made it infeasible to work on in 2020

[frail nymph]

That's what I'm talking about. I doubt they had more time for New War. It feels more likely that New War went on a hiatus until there was a lockdown end date. Because New War was impossible to finish in the middle of an Lockdown no matter what.

[subtle crown]

New War was always pre-empting Planes of Duviri.

Back when they were talking about it, it was no where near as big and cinematic as it is now.

It was just something they had to do plot wise to get to the void open world.

[frail nymph]

Are you sure about that? I doubt the story changed much at all from what I know. The current story makes more sense without Deimos and Necramechs.

Only Act 1 of New War has major content that was made after 2019, for example.

[subtle crown]

Yes I am sure of that. We were still on the "burnt out from fortuna" phase and the idea of a void open world was met with a less than optimistic approach.

Railjack was by far the biggest hype moment.

[frail nymph]

But we knew it was nothing like the old open worlds. It was operator-only... Quite different

[subtle crown]

We did not know that yet.

[frail nymph]

We had no reason to believe otherwise either. Especially from the trailer and stuff

[subtle crown]

We got the tennocon cinematic trailer, information it was a void open world and before it can launch there needed to be main story setup. Then radio silence up until Deimos release when they said it was taking longer than expected so have Deimos in the meantime.

[obtuse rune]

Contrary to popular belief, most people don't like the operators so that's not much of a selling point.

[frail nymph]

Let's not act like Duviri was not major hype.

[subtle crown]

It was absolutely major hype. But we had barely 2 sentences of information for years.

[frail nymph]

Either way, doesn't really matter. Deimos being shifted up doesn't relate to people's perception of Duviri

[obtuse rune]

Reb said they reworked the plot for New War and added more content because of the added time while they were on lock down.

[frail nymph]

Oh she did? Where can I see that?

[obtuse rune]

Kahl, Veso and Teshin were late additions.

[subtle crown]

Yeah, if Duviri released on schedule then new war would have been nothing like it is now.

[obtuse rune]

Yeah. And Deimos was a side addition they did to fill the time. That's why it has little impact on the actual quest. Because NW was being fleshed out prior to Deimos but altered later on.

[frail nymph]

Wait then why doesn't Teshin's segment make no sense given that Necramechs exist...? It's even weirder than I initially thought if those really are late additions

[obtuse rune]

I'll link the articles. Hang on.

[subtle crown]

Because rule of cool.

[obtuse rune]

well. I can't XD

it deletes them

There's two on VG247. Just google Reb Ford VG247 interview

[subtle crown]

So now we get memes about the guy who sat around in an air conditioned retirement home who lies through omission worse than Natah ever did getting his skull cracked like an egg and apparently people miss him.

[frail nymph]

Yup yup, I'm just talking about the exact decision about what made Deimos shift up.
New War talking longer isn't exactly a reason that makes sense.

Meanwhile we know New War was a cinematic quest and that the mocap required for any cinematic stuff at all was impossible during 2020. It would make sense for a company to postpone something that cannot be finished into stable times when Lockdown is lifted and at least a few people can go in and do MoCap.

[subtle crown]

Duviri was taking longer, not new war.

Duviri needed new war for setup. It was a means to an end, a bridge to content.

[frail nymph]

Duviri wasn't even supposed to be out in 2019, though. How does it matter if it took long? New War wouldn't be delayed if only Duviri took longer

[obtuse rune]

New War was postponed regardless due to Covid. They had most of the plot at that point. Like I said, the break encouraged them to add details like playing as other characters.

[ivory surge]

wait so Duviri will be a operator-only open world?

[frail nymph]

Thanks

[subtle crown]

Unknown.

[frail nymph]

Well we have Steve showing a Warframe swinging a sword around on Duviri map and saying it does not remotely represent actual Duviri gameplay, so most likely yes

[subtle crown]

Only thing we have been told is it's the void open world.

And that duviri needed the new war for setup.

[obtuse rune]

I'd prefer it that way if it was. Game needs to make ACTUAL use of the operators instead of promoting them in the story but putting them on the back burner with gameplay

[frail nymph]

That's pretty much what the focus rework is trying to do with AoZ

Hopefully it works out

[frail nymph]

And Steve saying that Warframe gameplay does not remotely represent duviri gameplay

[obtuse rune]

Cut scene shows the Drifter riding a horse and using weapons, which the Drifter mentioned offhand during NW so I'd say it's likely.

[subtle crown]

We were told that directly back in 2019.

[frail nymph]

We know that for a fact, I heard that they explicitly mentioned it

[subtle crown]

Back before drifter was named drifter.

[obtuse rune]

Alright. Did I misunderstand your unknown statement to it being an Operator-based open world?

[subtle crown]

To get to deimos the new war quest needed to happen before it.

[frail nymph]

Anyway, this is why I don't think DE worked much on NW in 2020. If they had any extra time as compared to the 2019 planned schedule, it must have been mostly after Sisters of Parvos was out.

[obtuse rune]

I'm remaining indifferent on the rework until I see gameplay modes in AoZ that focus on the Operator. With the one they showed last Devstream, I was not impressed. There's still 4 others so we'll see whether or not that checks out.

[frail nymph]

@subtle crown I think he was talking about the operator-ness of the Duviri gameplay

[frail nymph]

here

[obtuse rune]

Yeah. In counter to your response to Rhino.

[subtle crown]

So far the only thing that says it's operator/drifter exclusive is androids Steve interview/footage thing.

And even then it doesn't exclude frames.

[frail nymph]

Well the focus rework is different from mission but sure

[frail nymph]

BTW It was his twitter

[subtle crown]

So still not linking it.

[obtuse rune]

Like I said, it seems likely. Story-wise there were no Warframes in Duviri for the duration of time the Drifters were stuck there. Adding them to that feels as cheap as removing the Drifter's abilities at the end of New WAr.

[frail nymph]

IDK, if it involved frames in any way, I think a warframe swinging a sword around would not have to be explicitly mentioned as not related to the gameplay.

[subtle crown]

Would be amazing if I could actually find what you're talking about.

[cyan crest]

I tought he referred to the lack of enemies and the possibile changes in the environment that could happen in development

[frail nymph]

His twitter?

[subtle crown]

Where in his twitter?

I'm currently down to Nov 2020 and cannot find it.

[frail nymph]

Around July 15 2019

[subtle crown]

Oh wow, only now you mention it instead of just linking it?

[frail nymph]

Links get deleted don't they?

[obtuse rune]

Links don't work in here.

hence not linking the interview.

[frail nymph]

And you never asked for a link either

[craggy solstice]

Only whitelisted links are allowed in channels, I am unsure if twitter is allowed.

[frail nymph]

I'll DM it to you

[craggy solstice]

Twitter should work since it works in #fan-art?

[frail nymph]

https://twitter.com/sj_sinclair/status/1150815757049221120

Steve Sinclair (@sj_sinclair)

Which is striking when you see it all running real-time... (PS: This clip is not indicative of Duviri's gameplay at all)

Likes

1295

Retweets

139

▶ Play video

Twitter · Jul 15, 2019, 5:13 PM

Oh yeah it works

[frail nymph]

Gotcha

[obtuse rune]

Good to know. Thanks.

[frail nymph]

Steve also mentioned it in a devstream while talking about how the map was actually finished during Tennocon and it wasn't just bs movie magic

[subtle crown]

I like how you also ignore the previous tweets and some replies to comments about why it won't look that way in game.

[obtuse rune]

What's the likelihood of it being altered again after all this time?

[subtle crown]

200%

[slim anvil]

yes
very high

[obtuse rune]

so there you go.

[subtle crown]

there have been how many lighting system changes?

[obtuse rune]

lighting was not what I was talking about.

[cyan crest]

I thought that's what he meant about it not being the same gameplay
Also there's a very noticeable lack of enemies

Which are important to the gameplay

[subtle crown]

Lighting is what Steve is talking about.

[frail nymph]

How does that matter? Gameplay is not lighting

[obtuse rune]

Last I checked, I"m not Steve.

[obtuse rune]

Talking about gameplay alterations.

[subtle crown]

Because it's a thread on their cinematic footage settings that are super processer intensive.

Like the aspect ratio being not something you can achieve natively in game.

[frail nymph]

And the comment about it not being gameplay was specifically about gameplay and not footage settings... Gameplay is gameplay??

[obtuse rune]

At this point, it could be anything. They've added more content than they were expecting to have at the time. And Steve heavily emphasizes how different the entire video is from the actual gameplay.

While they may have had the map, who's to say they had a playable Drifter model to showcase

[cyan crest]

What he showcases there is literally a flat environment with no enemies nor interactables, he could very well be referring to that

[frail nymph]

It could, but I don't think that would require any specific mentions anyway. Like obviously the lack of enemies is not gameplay related..

[obtuse rune]

Agree with Android. There's an unnecessary emphasis on the gameplay if it was just the lack of enemies.

[subtle crown]

Don't forget the colour masking that now likely has a different meaning than it did then.

[frail nymph]

Okay but how is that gameplay related? I don't understand

[obtuse rune]

Because it's in the game, apparently.

[subtle crown]

How the environment reacts to the player is still gameplay.

Like his special shadows that makes grass pop.

That was also removed from PoE to make it more potato friendly.

[obtuse rune]

The only gameplay I know that involves grass is Zelda

[cyan crest]

Vifhdlfjdidhd

[frail nymph]

Ohh so you mean that in gameplay we won't see any of the masking stuff. As in gameplay vs cinematic render

[subtle crown]

Steve goes bonkers over lighting and environmental systems.

Like you should have seen how absolutely smitten he was with the earth rework at night with the moon.

[cyan crest]

He was also using that cinematic aspect ratio wasn't he? which we obviously wouldn't use in gameplay so it wouldn't be an indicative of real duviri gameplay when players get to it

[subtle crown]

Yes, "cinematic trailer" is how I read his "not actual gameplay" tweet.

[heavy obsidian]

He definitely do

[obtuse rune]

I'll concur. He loves dynamic lighting, but I'm still 99% sure Steve wasn't expecting us to go mow Duviri's lawn

[subtle crown]

Like I can already hear my GPU fans going full speed just trying to render that at 60fps.

[frail nymph]

But that's assuming that they are removing everything that Steve is demonstrating as "Duviri Paradox rendering." Why would he talking about something that's seen in live gameplay and not in the cinematic trailer.

[subtle crown]

Again, there have already been how many lighting system changes in the past 2.6 years?

[cyan crest]

how
how did you get to the conclusion that Khold said we would be cutting grass

[frail nymph]

Those tweets did not come out across 2.6 years. Steve didn't make a late amendment that mentioned "it won't look like this." You would have to assume that they planned to remove it then and there, even though it was in a live gameplay build. Which is fine, but still noteworthy.

[obtuse rune]

We're talking about Steve discussing the gameplay. You're better off asking Khold by what stretch lighting is gameplay than you are asking me.

[cyan crest]

You know that the way a game looks is reflected on the gameplay, right? And if they change how it looks, then that small video wouldn't be an indicative of how actual duviri gameplay looks

And I mean he still has the different aspect ratio

[frail nymph]

Yes. But that would mean they planned to change how it looks in 2019 itself... Not across 2.6 years. That's what I'm saying. Just a nuance

[subtle crown]

They 100% planned to change how it looked. Steve was showing off cinematic settings. Gameplay would not look like that.

[frail nymph]

But why would cinematic settings exist for warframe gameplay? Warframe gameplay was not at all in the cinematic scene. That's a lot of rigging and stuff if you're planning to discard it anyway. If they just wanted to show something in real time they would've showed the Duviri scene content in real time rather than a completely unused Warframe build.

[wanton shale]

Are we allowed to talk about the new war here?

[frail nymph]

Yes

Also in lore discussion

[heavy obsidian]

Yeah and Angels of Zariman

[wanton shale]

Thanks

[obtuse rune]

So for some reason they showed an armed Drifter defeating a Duviri Dax, then guiding the horse to the Zariman, yet it's unfeasible to comprehend the gameplay may have had something to do with the trailer's main selling point?

[subtle crown]

False equivalency.

[obtuse rune]

About as false as comparing Steve's comment about the cinematic cameras to the "not indicative of Duviri's gameplay at all"

[frail nymph]

It's less about that and more about statements from people...

[obtuse rune]

if it was just the camera angle, he would have said as much. Steve's rarely cryptic.

[subtle crown]

We know now that the planes content will be largely operator/drifter based. We still have no indication it is 100% op/drift. Especially when part of the proof is a tweet bookended by graphics engine talk.

[frail nymph]

There's no concrete reason to believe Warframes will be there, obviously. But we're talking about whether there's reason to positively believe they won't be there

[subtle crown]

Especially when you take into consideration just how incredibly unpopular the planes would be as a whole if you removed warframe and archwing terrestrial movement options.

[frail nymph]

Meanwhile for this reason, it would not just have been Steve just showing cinematic settings. They would not rig a Warframe to the new systems just to show cinematic settings and then discard it forever.

[obtuse rune]

What we know is just before the Duviri trailer, a void storm disrupted the Operator's transference link, disconnecting them from their warframe. Cut to Duviri.

[frail nymph]

It would make more sense if the Warframe part was intended to be gameplay, but remained in prototype form, and that's what he meant by not related to actual gameplay. Rather than just being a one time cinematic showcase.

[supple dagger]

A cool trailer shoot, but still doesn't mean that how Duviri is gonna be

[obtuse rune]

Hard to sell a community on horses when you can just archwing everywhere. It would work as well as a K-drive.

[subtle crown]

"Work as well as a K-Drive" is not a good selling point.

[obtuse rune]

Exactly.

[supple dagger]

You say that like DE wouldn't still put them in

[obtuse rune]

They'd have to remove both to make the community use horses.

[supple dagger]

And they certainly aren't

[subtle crown]

Then you would have fans complaining that drifter canonically uses a k-drive.

[obtuse rune]

They can if they limit the use of Warframes in that area. Operators can't utilize the archwings.

[supple dagger]

That's already a non-issue

[heavy obsidian]

And Archwings already out paced K Drives for transportation

[subtle crown]

It would be used against the devs if they did indeed remove other terrestrial movement options.

[obtuse rune]

We know DE is set on the horses. They're visible in the New War and the Drifter distinctly mentions riding one. It WILL be added.

[frail nymph]

That's not a point of contention.

It's not about whether warframe gameplay is limited. It's about whether it's guaranteed to be completely absent.

[supple dagger]

And there's very little reason to assume they will.

[obtuse rune]

I'm going off of what we were shown. We were shown the operator being ejected from their warframe, paired with the drifter losing their powers in the Duviri trailer, which carries over to Warframes. Whether they will be permanently removed, I don't know nor care. But during some point they won't be accessible.

[subtle crown]

Remember that drifter was in duviri prior to meeting up with operator and getting their powers.

And drifter has several lines about how his powers haven't come in yet and he might get them eventually.

[frail nymph]

The way I see it, Steve's statment is the only confirmation that Warframes as a whole are not related to Duviri gameplay at all... Nothing else we know so far...

Unless you interpret it quite differently, and assume that Steve is only talking about the visual aspects of prototype gameplay vs actual gameplay. Even though Steve doesn't make the point about actual gameplay being different in any of the tweets except the one that has a Warframe in it. Which could be the case, but assumptions are assumptions.

[obtuse rune]

Same.

[subtle crown]

Yes, we're interpreting the tweet differently.

[supple dagger]

It's fair, but DE trailers also very much do not reflect what actually happens in the game. They're always for hype

[subtle crown]

You're taking it at its most literal face value in a vacuum point.

[frail nymph]

I'm taking it as the most probable interpretation... It could mean visual stuff only. But that involves multiple assumptions.

It's only a coincidence that the face value one is most probable

[subtle crown]

Those multiple assumptions includes decades of "footage shown is not indictive of actual gameplay" and how the tweet is bookended with explanations of why it looks the way it does.

[obtuse rune]

It's bookended because someone asked about it. Doesn't look like Steve voluntarily introduced the subject.

[frail nymph]

This would make sense if the entire tweet was about the duviri cinematic. But it was not

[subtle crown]

Then several years of Steve changing how the lighting system works including at least 2 instances of completely gutting it and making a new one.

Android, you will never make me see that tweet the way you do.

You see like 10 words, I see 10+ years of industry standards in full display.

[frail nymph]

The assumptions are:
A) That was prototype gameplay that for sure was set to be discared even at the time of filming of the footage.
B) The fact that Steve said nothing about it "not looking like actual gameplay" until we saw a Warframe in there must be ignored.

[subtle crown]

Yes, you do you. You will never make me believe.

[obtuse rune]

Alright. So focus reworks and his discussion during a Devstream several years ago that they are focusing extensively on operators has nothing to do with this? Because he's also touched lighting?

[supple dagger]

You can ignore him cause saying that part didn't reflect actual gameplay does not correlate to not frames at all

[frail nymph]

How? It's only said in one tweet- the tweet that shows a frame.

[obtuse rune]

Steve has multiple lines of focus. He's stated as much. His fondness for dynamic lighting is by far not his only project.

[frail nymph]

Yes, it has nothing to do with this, because the things you are talking about allow the planes to have operator heavy content. They do not rule out the possibility of having a Warframe there at all

[supple dagger]

Because there's very much no reason to assume Frame standing in a blank field with nothing in it captioned "does not reflect actual gameplay" translate to no frames at all. You can't base it of trailers cause trainers blatantly do not reflect actual gameplay at all

[frail nymph]

That's fine. Just answer these question:
Why is there a frame at all in the live footage version?
Why does Steve only talk about not looking like actual gameplay in the one tweet that has a Warframe in it.

If you answer these, then your interpretation is fine with me.

[frail nymph]

Think it through.
If it indeed was talking about blankness and absense of enemies, why would Steve bother to mention anything about it not reflecting gamplay? It's obvious that Duviri won't be a blank map with nothing in it.

[supple dagger]

Because a blank space with no enemies is not how the game works?

Ergo, not actual gameplay

[frail nymph]

That's obvious and implicit. Steve would not bother to mention that explicitly.

[subtle crown]

Why is there a frame at all in the live footage version?
Because frames are the default. They can be loaded in basically anywhere. Especially the basic Excalibur.

Why does Steve only talk about not looking like actual gameplay in the one tweet that has a Warframe in it.
Decades of industry standards and how he is currently using settings unavailable to the player.

[supple dagger]

You very much would need too, cause people are stupid and won't know otherwise

[frail nymph]

Because frames are the default. They can be loaded in basically anywhere. Especially the basic Excalibur.
Not in the case of cinematic footage using new particle systems that are not intended for gameplay.

Decades of industry standards and how he is currently using settings unavailable to the player
Then why was it not mentioned at the beginning?

[frail nymph]

Yeah, no. That's a long stretch

[supple dagger]

You never bank that people will automatically assume

[craggy solstice]

Most times when DE tests anything they just use default excalibur with default gear.

[frail nymph]

I can see khold's point of it being about particle systems and visual stuff. The lack of enemies is just way too far off to me at least

[craggy solstice]

This is shown in previous dev streams too.

[subtle crown]

Also, it's not cinematic footage. It's cinematic settings. 2 different things.

[craggy solstice]

I don't know the full context of the conversation, all I know is media from Duviri paradox is still WIP and subject to change.

[frail nymph]

Again, we are talking about new visual tech that has never been rigged to a Warframe. Not something that already existed. Something that was only put in for the Duviri trailer

[craggy solstice]

Ah.

It'll be nice to see new visual tech when Duviri comes out.

[subtle crown]

https://twitter.com/sj_sinclair/status/1150815757049221120

Steve Sinclair (@sj_sinclair)

Which is striking when you see it all running real-time... (PS: This clip is not indicative of Duviri's gameplay at all)

Likes

1296

Retweets

139

▶ Play video

Twitter · Jul 15, 2019, 5:13 PM

[heavy obsidian]

Also modless

[obtuse rune]

Him answering a question in the comments does not automatically make his video about that topic. That's a longer stretch than the Grand Canyon.

[craggy solstice]

I like the black and white going on when they shown it off.

[subtle crown]

Scroll up to see the 3 previous tweets then come down to the .gif and then scroll down to see him talking about the axspect ratio.

[subtle crown]

You do realise all the tweets are linked together right?

[frail nymph]

Nevermind, if Warframes were never gonna be rigged to the new effects system, then the footage itself wouldn't exist. Regardless of whether you take khold's or my interpretation. So yeah Knowing that, Steve's more likely talking about visual effects

[supple dagger]

It's an even longer stretch to think it means Warframe will be limited in the open world when there's barely anything to support that

[heavy obsidian]

That's mostly a showcase of Wise Razor with Duviri at the background

[frail nymph]

Literally everything we know about Duviri screams that Warframes are not the main focus. That's not even a point of contention at all. It's about whether no warframes will be allowed on there, and I've changed my mind on that anyway.

[subtle crown]

Wise razor/Duviri along with "screen space contact shadows" and "mask texture" with bloom. "It's all striking seeing it run in real time"

[obtuse rune]

My opinion is that it will be limited within the quest. I've already stated that I don't care one way or another if it'll be an element unlocked later. While I think they should be excluded to actually provide a use for the "Main protagonists" of this game, players would likely lose their collective IQs if Warframes weren't accessible in the plains on a permanent basis.

[subtle crown]

Then in a reply to the gif Giancarlo talks about it being different and Steve mentions the crazy aspect ratio.

I fully believe that frames will at least be restricted during the quest and maybe bounties but it would probably be closer to eidolon hunts where frames play a minimalist role and 99% of the work is done in operator mode.

[fleet veldt]

Meanwhile Narmer only has post-War presence in one of two Landscapes every hour or so. You'd think they'd give Narmer more of a presence, either in Empyrean or in a Narmer Invasion variant at the least.

[subtle crown]

But for frames to be completely absent is something I would never see happening simply due to fan outrage.

[frail nymph]

In conclusion, it's an unfortunate coincidence that the live ingame stuff was exclusively frame stuff and the previous stuff was exclusively Tenno stuff.
Since the effects are at least rigged to a Warframe, it's more likely Steve was talking about just the form of visual effects in that specific footage, even if the effects aren't necessarily planned to be removed.

Although still entirely not unlikely that by "not related to Duviri gameplay at all still referred to the frame. In this case, it would mean they just showed basic frame sword swoosh to avoid spoilers.

[obtuse rune]

Not surprised. DE seems surprisingly fond of glossing over War in their War-based game.

[subtle crown]

The mask texturing I can fully see staying around. Though it would have likely been tweaked in the 2 years since it was shown off for new war.

[frail nymph]

You'd think people would wait until DE had time to work on that stuff first before critiquing it...

[fleet veldt]

Plus the aftermath was quite hyped by news outlets so...

[frail nymph]

The aftermath was hyped as being a turning point for the future of Warframe... We don't know if DE lives up to it until the future arrives

[subtle crown]

Screen space contact shadows I cannot see sticking around. They're processor intensive for arguably not much benefit.

[obtuse rune]

The absent aftermath which DE still hasn't addressed despite the influx of requests for New War consequences on their survey.

[fleet veldt]

The earliest we'd see any additional content on post-War would be next year going by this logic. Which is fine, but I'm just a little disappointed that the most we've gotten of a ravaged post-War system was:
-A Sentient bone bow
-Drifter
-A spot to crash park our ship
-Void pistol
-Changed Landscape x2

I was expecting these decrepid Murexes to be occupied by Narmer/Sentient forces we'd have to clear out or something.

[frail nymph]

And I'm not disappointed, because that's a lot for one update that comes with a quest longer than every other cinematic quest combined, especially knowing the decision to have it out in 2021 itself.

[fleet veldt]

DE -did- say they split the post-War content from it, hence why I'm fine with waiting. I'm just being Sargas Ruk* here.

*"I expected more! I deserve a challenge!"

[frail nymph]

Right, so the difference between us is subjective anyway

[frail nymph]

New way to end arguments? xD

[fleet veldt]

The best way to end arguments is to shake hands and imagine a compromise, if any. Or just accept and continue onto a new subject.

Unfortunately the Orokin didn't understand this.

[obtuse rune]

Seconded. It would require substantial changes to the starchart and add new gameplay features. Reb hinted in a tweet that this would come at a later time. If that's going to be their focus after AoZ, I have no problem waiting.

[slim anvil]

the best way to end arguments is to kill your opponent with a six-shooter in a consensual duel on main street

[fleet veldt]

That is the Grineer way of doing things.

As for Zariman; I do hope we get to drag in our Necramechs for this as the ship is part Landscape in how it works...

Wonder if they'll revisit Eris' Myconian colony with this same functionality?

[slim anvil]

yes

[slim anvil]

mechs deserve a lot more after they got done dirty in tnw

"hey the mech is an essential requisite of this quest"
mech: 10 minutes of actual playtime in the 6 hour quest

[fleet veldt]

And then sputters out because low battery.

[subtle crown]

Then the mech was a killing power downgrade compared to any half built operator.

[slim anvil]

tfw mech accomplishes literally nothing in the entire questline

[fleet veldt]

Funny. Speaking of Operators - what if Drifters get their weapon options as a reward from Angels of the Zariman?

Unlikely, as it could be the reward from Duviri instead, but it'd be nice.

[slim anvil]

[obtuse rune]

As for Zariman, I'm still wondering why DE thought it'd be a good idea for the Tenno to build a permanent home on the same ship they were trapped and traumatized on. Because nothing says home sweet home like setting up shop in the same place my parents tried to kill and eat me. Let me just sit my stuff down next to this massive crate of PTSD.

[subtle crown]

All things considered the Zariman ended up being the least traumatic thing the kids went through.

[obtuse rune]

Was it though?

[fleet veldt]

The Zariman is still technically our home, and given all the Tenno went through with the Orokin, the familiar weirdness of a post-Void'd ship is less of a problem than the Infestation or current-world political situation. Ingame, that is.

[obtuse rune]

Right because they didn't live anywhere before they were on the ship, right? That's like calling your minivan your home if you get trapped in a rockslide.

[frail nymph]

I also have no problem waiting especially if the rest of this year's content is delivering Duviri. I've just made peace with the fact that any of the latest release in Warfame will not fully represent the intended design experience of going through it all at once as a newer player.
Like New War plus post New War will be released across 2 years, but it's still designed for someone that plays both back to back after it's all out

[subtle crown]

"Our parents went crazy after void exposure"
vs
"Child soldiers, maiming loved ones, lies and betrayal, mind wiping, comatose for 1000 years, the orokin, 'hey I just met you, and you're mildly crazy, these guys want to capture you, genocide maybe?'"

[fleet veldt]

There's been no clear indication on where the Tenno were before the Z10-0 was a thing. At least, to my memory.

[subtle crown]

Hell, the Zariman would be one of the safest places in the universe for us and us alone.

[frail nymph]

Which is why I still doubt the overall story of New War changed since 2019. (With Ballas being the villain and what happens to the system etc...) Mechs prolly just didn't fit in with that original vision from before Deimos...

Not enough time for huge story changes that would require a lot of thinking stuff through etc.

[subtle crown]

No humanoids, no infested, no sentients. A giant worm dragon thing that has never directly attacked us and a "why is it so COLOSSAL" ship with still functional life support.

[obtuse rune]

Maiming loved ones goes back to the Zariman. As for the rest, there's this thing a lot of countries have been doing for the last dozen centuries, called War. Does that mean War isn't damaging? No. But it's not nearly as damaging as your parents trying to kill and eat you.

[subtle crown]

You seem to forget that the tenno are literal child soldiers.

[obtuse rune]

They're teens. Teens have fought in wars throughout the centuries. It's damaging but it's not the same scar as what they witnessed on that ship.

[subtle crown]

Some of the interviews of adults who grew up as child soldiers and are permanently in mental institutions are downright chilling for how they view the world.

[frail nymph]

After going through that war, the events on that ship would no longer bother me.

[subtle crown]

Some of the kids the Zariman angry parents would have been the literal worst thing ever. For others "mommy and daddy have been drinking again"

[obtuse rune]

The difference between the War and the Zariman is by then, they were trained soldiers fighting with surrogate god-like bodies. On the ship, they were vulnerable children with limited control over their powers and no outlet from the horrors they were trapped with.

[frail nymph]

The weren't trained soldiers by the War, they were turned into trained soldiers in the middle of the War.

And it doesn't matter how traumatising the War was at the time. Point is, they are trained battle hardened people now. If they survived the trauma of War easily, they can be comfortable with going back to Zariman easily.

Also Drifter is prolly not comfortable living the way operators do anyway.

[subtle crown]

Plus when the kids got their powers there was already 3 groups of people. The "worst day ever" crowd were moved to safe spots where they can be a balled up weepy mess.

[obtuse rune]

Got me on a technicality. Fine. They were trained to fight in the war. The Orokin didn't throw them in without even teaching them which direction to point a gun.

[subtle crown]

Then you had attackers and defenders. Attackers went out getting more people to the safe spots and hand them over to the defenders to sort out the logistics.

You might have a fantastic relationship with your parents. Many people do not.

[frail nymph]

Regardless, they either are trained enough or have gone through greater enough trauma to handle it.

[obtuse rune]

But analyzing it from the perspective of that one kid holding the picture of his mom, he is going to be left with permanent PTSD if he even survived.

[subtle crown]

The angry adults is still one of the least traumatic things to ever happen to the tenno.

[cyan crest]

I wouldn't say I have but having to kill them after they start hunting me is not my ideal vacation ngl

[subtle crown]

Yes, one single kid on an entire ship full of people.

[frail nymph]

The training for war would either undo that PTSD, or the being thrown into a War without training would override that PTSD

[obtuse rune]

I'm not an expert but I can say with confidence that's not how PTSD works.

[subtle crown]

Also remember that being put into the dream memories of the zariman were very heavily suppressed.

[frail nymph]

Well you did argue that their training would completely make the PTSD from War irrelevant... Just because they were trained to fight in the War

[subtle crown]

Even getting the memories back we don't really recall what happened, only vague snippets of "some people were balled up messes, some hunted, others helped"

[obtuse rune]

I didn't argue that. Go back and look. I said it is damaging but a different kind.

The trauma of killing your own family as they attempt to kill you is not the same as fighting sentients and infestation.

[frail nymph]

What is the point of this except not to say that Zariman was more traumatic just because they happened to train for War?

[frail nymph]

It is when you kill millions of Dax and Grineer and (eventually) Corpus pawns, and watch your friends die to the Sentients and infestation.

[obtuse rune]

The point is that the Zariman would be a triggering location canonically for Tenno. Not a dream penthouse.

[frail nymph]

So is your orbiter

So is every mission you go to right now
So is the New War

That's the point

[subtle crown]

Yeah, remember that daily attempted genocide is already a super normal thing by the time we get our memories of the Zariman back.

[obtuse rune]

Remind me again which room their parents were in, trying to kill them, then instead eating their friends.

[cyan crest]

I mean even if some parts of the zariman trigger your trauma you can uhm
Still live there
I think
We don't remember most of it anyway

[subtle crown]

It's like getting a memory from when you were a toddler. It happened and it might have been super traumatic at the time but now you have more context for it.

[obtuse rune]

We is subjective. Some remember. Others don't.

[frail nymph]

Yeah the conclusion of War Within was that remembering that stuff barely did anything that Lotus was afraid of revealing

[obtuse rune]

For those that don't remember, yeah I guess it wouldn't matter much to them, but for those who did, there are better locations to live.

[frail nymph]

Are there?

[subtle crown]

Many of us would still lack the memory of "killing our parents". Only the "hunter" group might have run into that situation. And even that is RNG to run into your own parent.

Like, the ship is HUGE.

[frail nymph]

Orbiter is not better, neither is Dojo. Both are related to fighting a war, massacring an empire. At least the Zariman stuff is safe and free

[obtuse rune]

We just had a system-wide war. People died or were relocated. Far as I see it, half the system now is free real estate.

Let's not forget the Drifter found a spot in the middle of the Narmer tyranny while the Sentients were actively hunting survivors.

[subtle crown]

In the garden we can see we're in one of those alcoves.

Like, the zariman is unreasonably huge.

[frail nymph]

Corpus and Grineer are practically back to what they were doing. With the Deacons etc dead, they would have just removed the veils

It wasn't even a War, it was a takeover that swiftly happened using Narmer Veils. No outposts required destroying, no civilizations/encampments needed to be moved/wiped out. (relatively speaking)

It's not safer than it was before, at least. Especially with a new faction to be threatened by

[frail nymph]

A spot no safer than your hi tech invisible Orbiter right now. It was a camp in the middle of nowhere that he spent little time in.

I guess a room with Fortuna or Cetus or maybe in the Necralisk could be another option for living quarters...

But I doubt we'd want to live with Fortuna or Cetus and Necralisk is just a tower.

[obtuse rune]

That's not how it's currently functioning in canon. Locations were ravaged and altered, IE the temple during Act 2 or Fortuna which wouldn't be any different from other labor habs on Venus. Individuals had to be freed from the veil manually and many that were resumed them, creating a fourth faction in addition to the current opposing forces.

[ivory surge]

why would you ever want to live on Deimos?

[frail nymph]

Locations were not ravaged, they were upgraded. Like Orb Vallis/Fortuna or the Act 2 Maps. Individuals only had to be sneakily freed because Deacons were around. Without them, a growing army of people would just pull masks off and waltz through.

[obtuse rune]

Right. The mountains of rubble and destruction of the plains is a great upgrade.

[frail nymph]

All of that only happened because that was the prerequisite for Narmer

The Takeover of the Unum for the Kuva within.
There's not a single sentient combat unit anywhere else except the ones defending the Archons and stuff

[obtuse rune]

It wasn't the only one. By the end of the takeover, all factions had united against the enemy. That implies mass destruction on multiple locations.

[frail nymph]

That was against a stationary sentient blockade in space, and also before the Narmer Veil was used. The whole point of the Veil is to not have to fight nearly as much

[obtuse rune]

I'm well aware. The Board would have laughed if the only consequence was a new Cetus-shaped crater on Earth. DE didn't have a strictly Corpus location to show since there aren't any in game, but the Corpus would have taken significant damage to ally with the Grineer.

[frail nymph]

Why would the corpus need to take significant damage at all just to fight a fleet that's in space? We know the Sentients didn't yet bother invading anything except Cetus. The rest of them were just waiting for Ballas to ban the Tenno

Orb Vallis didn't suffer a single scratch

It's not like the Corpus came to defend the grineer on PoE. They saw sentient ships, they went to attack sentient ships.

[winter plinth]

Nef statue head got replaced by ballas, im sure that’s a massive blow to nefs ego

[obtuse rune]

And you know that how? That's not remotely mentioned during the quest. Furthermore Orb Vallis has next to no populace. The Sentients would have to have even less foresight than Erra to wage war on a frozen desert.

[frail nymph]

Nef was in a Veil by then and loved it

[winter plinth]

High ranking corpus probably had bunkers to hide in

[obtuse rune]

You don't know that.

Presenting assumptions as facts is a waste of time for all parties.

[frail nymph]

Cetus also had no populace, so what's your point exactly?

We know they attacked Cetus because it had the Unum's Kuva.

We see no remnants of Sentients or damage at all anywhere in the quest except for the few murexes that Ballas put in for the Narmer stuff. We don't even see sentient combat units except for the ones defending the Archons once Narmer has done its job.

What is even the point of attacking anything before the Narmer plan is put in place? What's the point of destroying something you can simply rule over?

[frail nymph]

Sure, the assumption that everything was "ravaged and altered to the point that it's completely safe free real estate there because it's uninhabited after the War" is totally not an assumption even after not seeing a scratch on anything except what happened before Narmer.

[frail nymph]

Nef had nothing he could do either way. So what's the point exactly? Replacing a head does not mean making it uninhabitably destroyed

[obtuse rune]

Last I checked, we went to only two locations in the game with a population. And those locations were visibly altered. Cetus was damaged extensively while Fortuna was redesigned. Who's to say what it looked like before the Sentients rebuilt it. Half of this argument has been you stating assumptions as facts and eliminating logic for the other 50%.
We're presented with the sentients taking over, then timeskip to when they're fully established numerous years down the road. Long enough for them to rebuild and have seized control over a large portion of the system populace. In between that time, there would be rebel factions uniting against the Sentients, refugee camps, rebellions and in some cases full-scale wars.
I didn't say the solar system is uninhabited, I said many died and many more were relocated. Either due to taking shelter or being moved to a more productive location. Such as the Grineer.

[ivory surge]

Narmer:"If you put on the Veil on you will be enslaved, do you want to?
Nef:"what no!"
Narmer:"what if you can dream of being rich-"
Nef:"GIMME THAT CRAP"

[winter plinth]

The point being that it’s funny to imagine nefs reaction that ballas is taking over the statue he’s been building for years, why are you acting so aggressive?

[obtuse rune]

Either way with the information we have he was not veiled and happy. Maybe try to avoid stating your theories as facts if you don't like others jumping in.

I'm over this conversation. It's late and there are better things I can waste my time on.

[frail nymph]

What?
We know why Cetus was destroyed.
Anything else being destroyed is pointless and just a chore. Because Narmering it is just easier.

Who's to say what it looked like before the Sentients rebuilt it.
Who's to say Sentients chose to destroy it for absolutely no reason except "haha boom"
when they're fully established numerous years down the road. Long enough for them to rebuild and have seized control over a large portion of the system populace.
Nope, they barely had the time to repurpose some factories and fix some orokin towers and install a couple weird pillars in Corpus and Grineer ships etc. Cetus Children barely had enough time to grow up. If they had so much time to repair whatever they want, why didn't they repair the Plains of Eidolon?
Even if we assume they destroyed everything and repaired it all in record time, it just disproves your assumption that everything is free real estate, because the Narmer repaired it all. The only way any place is not occupied by Narmer is if the Grinner came in and freed the people there, so it cannot be free real estate.

In between that time, there would be rebel factions uniting against the Sentients, refugee camps, rebellions and in some cases full-scale wars.
Yes let's just ignore the whole point of Narmer being a positive feedback loop meant to take territory over.

I didn't say the solar system is uninhabited, I said many died and many more were relocated.
You said at least half the system is current free real estate.

Either due to taking shelter or being moved to a more productive location.
Ballas's vision with Narmer is completely pointless if half the people didn't actually join Narmer and just hid somewhere, and if Narmer for some weird reason decided not to take over the empty land.

[frail nymph]

First off, It didn't matter to the argument whether Nef was Veiled or not. Second, it was the most likely thing because that's precisely what Ballas insisted on doing - taking over every inch. Point was that no matter what, Nef's opinion on the statue did change whether or not Orb Vallis was "ravaged," including the possible the case of him being Veil. I don't care about mentioning irrelevant ambiguity for no reason, I'm not a content creator.

[frail nymph]

Sure that's funny, but we were talking about whether Orb Vallis was left ravaged and changed in a way that it would be free real estate and safe to live in for Tenno. You replied to that discussion, so I naturally assumed you were arguing for the point that Orb Vallis was indeed ravaged.

[winter plinth]

Why are you taking this so seriously? Just tryna have some fun

[frail nymph]

Don't know what you mean, I'm just chilling and typing

I guess you could say I don't usually make jokes in the middle of trying to argue very specific lore points.

[obtuse rune]

While it's amusing to watch you string together multiple conversations and multiple subjects to make your point, I'm not interested. The free real estate comment was a joke made about living somewhere other than the Zariman. If you want to latch on to that to continue your assumption that there was a peaceful take over, which there wasn't (proven right away by freeing caged ostrons even AFTER Narmer was fully established) then you're wasting both our times. And I have better things to do with mine.

[frail nymph]

Yeah sure, go ahead and backtrack. The free real estate was not just a joke, we were in the middle of conversation about whether it was safe to live anywhere. It may have been slighty hyperbolic, but that doesn't change it from being an argument.

This message of yours was a direct assertion that after a system-wide war many locations would be safe to live in.

[frail nymph]

You even doubled down on it later.

Even if you backtrack and say it's just some kind of weak point instead of uninhabited, we know it makes no sense even then. Because Narmer would not sit around doing nothing

For example, comparing Cetus and Fortuna:
Orb Vallis is more difficult to take over than PoE.
Cetus required a war with tons of collateral damage to take it over without the Narmer.
There was not even enough time to repair damage in Cetus, aka the invasion's most vital location.

Meanwhile, Orb Vallis would have a required an even bigger war with even more irreparable damage.
Yet Narmer took it over with no damage to be shown. So we know the takeover was possible with relatively no damage.

Since Narmer worked without damaging things to the point of making people flee and stay away entirely even after the fall of Narmer, Sentients would not randomly wage war in and risk damaging locations that they wanted to rule over.

[soft estuary]

Spoilers for the New War:
Batman Dies!!

[subtle crown]

Meh, he will be back. with any luck he won't be forced melee with a bad stance this time around.

[kindred briar]

with eternalism, Batman lives AND Batman dies

[cyan crest]

Schrodinger's Wayne

[kindred briar]

it also means that Batman's parents live AND Batman's parents die

[subtle crown]

With eternalism both outcomes are possible.
With reality we are only assigned to a single outcome and cannot access the other.

[cyan crest]

Unless you are magic teen that happened to be in the eldritch sauce

[subtle crown]

Would Wally even still count as a teen?

[gritty willow]

wally is the eldrich sauce

[cyan crest]

I meant the actual teens

I should have said future child soldier

[subtle crown]

So yeah, we still have zero ways to interact with outcomes that did not happen in our space or within the void.

[cyan crest]

Hmm
I wonder if something like that will happen in the future
Using the void as a nexus
Ngl it seems like something they would do just to explore the multiverse concept
Or maybe I'm just overthinking stuff again

[subtle crown]

Wally being a proxy of MITW who can come visit us would be able to go visit timelines where Teshin didn't get his head cracked like an egg.

But if something didn't happen in our timeline/realspace or within the void we have zero way to interact with it.

[cyan crest]

:(
Well, the multiverse/eternalism concept served its purpose with drifter existing I guess

[subtle crown]

Not only existing, but being self correcting enough that when Ballas tried "banishing" the demon back to hell, the void said "no" and spat a different one out.

[cyan crest]

Also yeah, that can happen

Hey they lowered the wait time

[subtle crown]

So unless MITW goes full on eldrich horror and messing with even more timelines, the fact Teshin wasn't banished but instead died an utterly generic death means you likely will need an eldrich horror ancient quasi god to meddle with the fabric of existence.

[cyan crest]

metal

Well, Teshin dying isn't that bad
He hadn't done anything for years

We have the superior Dax in our arsenal anyway

[subtle crown]

Give him some credit. He became a PvE vendor.

[cyan crest]

Ah yeah, only when I'm ready to

Walk the steel path

[sharp spoke]

They said Angels is coming out in April, right?
Supposedly, anyway?

[subtle crown]

Yup.

Soon™️

[sharp spoke]

Excellent

[thick jolt]

Personally i expect it in the third week if all goes well

[sharp spoke]

Very curious to see what this "new syndicate" will be.
I'm thinking, judging only by DE's saying that we'll be seeing more of that instructor Cephalon, and also by the reveal of the gardener drone, that the new group will consist of various drones and robots who have just been maintaining the Zariman since the incident

Sort of milling about, doing their programmed tasks until of course Narmer, and we, show up

[craggy drum]

Didn’t they say the the Devstream that the Cephalon is more a side objectives thing? They hid the new faction for a reason., so I dont think it’ll be her as we saw her in the devstream

[subtle crown]

Why would Narmer be in the void?

[sharp spoke]

I worded that poorly - I didn't necessarily mean Narmer showing up on the Zariman, I mostly just meant the general event of TNW

And I didn't mean that the Cephalon represents the new faction, I'm just saying that based solely on those two robot-like characters (the gardener even getting an official name), that I'm seeing a theme

I could be WAY off base here, just my thinking

[lament geode]

Angels Demons Mythology, I'm just waiting for the new

[subtle crown]

Duviri will have their own syndicates. They are an open world after all. So getting us used to how they function narratively is a good thing.

[sharp spoke]

True that

[obtuse rune]

"You see. This is why we need that command override back. The board just can't face reality. So what's your plan, Teso?"The Board, a merchant faction, unanimously chose to fight the Sentients alongside the Grineer. The Corpus prioritize profit over conflict and wouldn't have sacrificed valuable resources in a war unless something had pushed them to that point. For that, it stands to reason the Sentients attacked or threatened the Corpus.

On topic of Orb Vallis, I already discussed this. There's no tactical advantage to assaulting a frozen desert. It's not densely populated nor a resource giant. Apart from Solaris itself, it's nothing special. Just home to dozens of habitational facilities that could be subdued at any time. As a tactician, Ballas would instead focus on securing high-profile locations and individuals that pose significant threat, such as the Queens, their commanders and the Corpus Board. Then assimilating their forces, he'd release them on areas like Fortuna to conform them with minimal casualties.
The damage I specifically mentioned, if you use reading comprehension this time, was from rebel factions, rebellions and wars led by the free. Narmer wasn't implemented overnight. Even years later when the quest resumes there are still rebels and ordinary civilians resisting the veils. That resistance would have been stronger in the beginning when Narmer and Free were closer in number.

Nothing indicates the take over was peaceful. Not Archons, veil detonation, captivity or the narrative from the survivors. It was swift in places but swift does not equate to peace. Ballas openly stated that while Narmer would be "accepting" at first, once it grew it would mercilessly remove the opposition. Ballas: "There are those who hate and fear the truth. And well they might. For the truth is a surgeon's scalpel and has no mercy for what is foul and diseased. Purge, and purge again, until only the truth remains. All as one."

[obtuse rune]

Yes, half the system being "free real estate" was a joke and a hyperbole using the free real estate meme, ridiculous as it is that I have to explain that to you.
I'm not backtracking. I stand by there being ample locations to settle outside of the Zariman. Need I again mention the Drifter found a base during system-wide enslavement. While the factions are currently preoccupied with reestablish their leaders and freeing their armadas, choosing a home is that much easier. Some areas, like Cetus, would welcome a permanent Tenno resident that could assist with the fractured Narmer that remains a rampant issue across the System. Numerous other colonies would share the same sentiment.

[past kiln]

Looking back I find it funny how little Ballas was featured in promo stuff for the New War despite causing it (not the Sentients) and being the main antagonist

[torpid lantern]

He did do a ton of self-promo during the New War so what if it was him breaking the 4th wall

[sharp spoke]

The man do love himself

[torpid lantern]

Idk how good this quality is

But the angels are the next enemies

[slim anvil]

tfw angels are the bad guys and demons are the good guys

[torpid lantern]

They can't be warframes because warframes weren't on the ship

[sharp spoke]

Indeed. My first impression is that the Angels are the deformed, void-corrupted remains of the adults on the ship

The damned, even. How ironic.

[torpid lantern]

I'm scared that they'll be the horrific void-corrupted remains of the parents

wait

[sharp spoke]

Jinx

[torpid lantern]

👉

[slim anvil]

nice, shared brainwave

[cunning copper]

Will be time to "hunt them like animals" then

Wait scirocco is gonna be an evolving weapon?

[sharp spoke]

Hunting them like animals, the void-devils purging their home from the fallen angels who linger

[torpid lantern]

That's horrible Even if they said it in WW, I always thought that was messed up. What kind of Person are you that you can just detach all feeling from killing your own family

[cunning copper]

One desperate for survival

[sharp spoke]

The kind who's driven completely insane by lovecraftian horrors

[torpid lantern]

Hopefully itll come more as a "put them out of their misery" sort of deal. Not something Resident Evil

[sharp spoke]

Oh, you meant us.
Yeah, I imagine that'll be part of it

[cunning copper]

Sentimentality quickly falls to the wayside in a life or death situation like that

[torpid lantern]

Tenno, sorry

[cunning copper]

You fight or you die

[sharp spoke]

Best family reunion ever

[torpid lantern]

You know, that's probably a major contributor to the Tenno being "crazy" and unable to control their powers. All that suppressed trauma with no time to morn or adjust

[cunning copper]

If they are actively trying to kill you like that, they are not the family you knew anymore. They are a threat and need to be dealt with as one or nobody will survuve

[sharp spoke]

We're child soldiers now, so, yknow

Kill the boy, and let the man (or woman) be born

[cunning copper]

Part of me wonders if the void powers are emotionally driven, and the reason they lost control was due to bottled emotions they didn't have time to vent or process

[torpid lantern]

Kinda. In the moment, absolutely! But most of the kids probably had good relationships with their parents so after the fact, they'll have all that grief and doubt to deal with. "Was there another way?" "Could we have cured them?". You know, stuff like that.

[sharp spoke]

Sounds very plausible

[torpid lantern]

I just said that so jinx!

[cunning copper]

I believe all the answers to that question are valid

So some tenno hunted them to defend the others that simply tried to hide

[torpid lantern]

Mhmm.. like poor Berryn

[cunning copper]

The one wanting his mom?

[torpid lantern]

I wonder if he survived okay or if in denial he tried to find his mom and got... eaten..

yeah

[cunning copper]

I answered that we were his family now

[torpid lantern]

He didn't accept the answer you gave him not matter which we picked

[cunning copper]

I know

But i think the others would have tried to hold him back from leaving

[torpid lantern]

Poor kid. And there's probably a whole bunch just like him

[sharp spoke]

That's a thing to consider, too - if we're the "devils", as Balls so kindly refers to us as, what about the kids who didn't survive? Surely not all of us made it out... what if the Angels aren't the parents, but the us who didn't make it?

[cunning copper]

I can't be only one who thinks there was more than one classroom right?

[torpid lantern]

Absolutely there is!

[sharp spoke]

Oh definitely not.
The Zariman is mucking. huge.

[cunning copper]

Imo, the kids temporarily barricaded the classrooms to try and regroup before they made a push for an apartment/dorm area for a stronger position with food supplies

[torpid lantern]

the parents didn't go crazy right away so those kids there are just the ones that decided to hide in there. Other kids probably hid in other places or just were in other places when the parents finally tipped

Some could have been out looking for food and other stuff with their families

[cunning copper]

If scirocco is going to be an evolving weapon, what do you think the chances are Nataruk will be too?

[slim anvil]

low

[cunning copper]

Yeah probably

[slim anvil]

sirocco is a void/zariman themed weapon
nataruk is sentient

[sharp spoke]

Ye, especially because Nata..
Yeah, that^

[torpid lantern]

Also something I was thinking about. I don't think the kids were all the same age. I think there was probably a huge range from pre-teen to late teen. And the ones that survived were the older ones. I 100% think MITW chose to make the parents crazy to force the kids to make a pact with him for whatever reason. I don't believe one bit that it's an age thing because that doesn't make sense. If you've got a 17 yo who's birthday is in a couple days, a few days difference wouldn't just "poof" make them go crazy.

[cunning copper]

But the evolving cosmetics we already have are all sentient in origin

[sharp spoke]

Unless that's exactly what Wally did, just for the giggles

[cunning copper]

I'm sure the older teens made efforts to protect the younger kids

[torpid lantern]

Idk... it seems intentional that he targeted the parents/workers because that's who the kids would depend on in a crisis.

[sharp spoke]

Yeah, that definitely makes sense

[cunning copper]

It was likely the older ones that did the hunting and guarding the rooms they holed up in.

[sharp spoke]

And the robots, AI, and such would be the only ones not affected because they aren't organic.
New syndicate is worker bots, I rest my case.

[torpid lantern]

And without them, then they couldn't escape either. I don't think they knew how to fix a ship. But then again, they did come from really intelligent families and upbringings so maybe they were able to jump the ship back out of the void. Unless MITW did that too. But they were stuck for years so it's kinda random if he did.

[cunning copper]

Weren't there mentions somewhere that the tenno fought against the rescuers at the thought of being separated from each other?

[sharp spoke]

That sounds like a thing, bud I don't recall

[torpid lantern]

Yeah, Ember Prime

[cunning copper]

Probably older survivors trying to protect the younger ones

Refusing to be separated because they knew the younger kids wouldn't trust adults anymore, but they would trust the older kids

[torpid lantern]

And the paranoia probably didn't do them any good. Just look at Rell's mom in the comics. She was super manipulative after she went crazy, pretending to be just fine so Rell would trust her. They couldn't trust any normal adult after that

[cunning copper]

The older kids probably knew how to tell the difference, the younger ones wouldn't understand there was a difference

[torpid lantern]

And I think I read somewhere that a lot of Tenno died while the Orokin were trying to figure out how to handle them. Something about casualties. I think it was in WW maybe

[cunning copper]

Probably trying to learn how to control their powers before Margulis's therapy was introduced

[torpid lantern]

Not just that. Just the Orokin experimenting on them. Hang on

[cunning copper]

Oh i'm sure there was that too

And likely being killed by dax when they fought back trying to resist being taken off the ship

[torpid lantern]

Found it! The Orokin totally did. It was Second Dream.
We were just kids, but... they were afraid of what we could do. When they tried to treat us like rats I stood up to them. I wasn't going to let them divide us after what we'd been through

[cunning copper]

I chose that option!

And hunting the adults

In my headcanon, my tenno protected the other children and fought to stay together with them

[supple dagger]

Ember Prime is the Tenno being scared, not fighting the investigators

By all accounts, the Tenno were taken off the ship itself fine, it's after that you get most incidents. Beyond Kaleen

[torpid lantern]

Huh? But Ember Prime is the one we were talking about though where they attacked the adults that were investigating the ship?

Kaleen is the only person we're hearing the story from but we know they hurt Margulis too. They couldn't help it. As Kaleen said, they were scared.

[errant charm]

I also took that as they couldnt control the power either, Ive always had this odd opinion that the amps were part of that. Providing a means to give a tenno more control.

[runic schooner]

||https://youtu.be/mmQeK6ZmnOs?t=274||

@sturdy condor

[sturdy condor]

Ty

[supple dagger]

thinking of building the paracessis

[gritty pike]

pretty solid weapon

One of the best heavy swords in the game

[sturdy condor]

1k ducats tho

[vapid delta]

Anyways ps4 online?

[supple dagger]

not really an issue for i have prime junk....

[winter plinth]

No reason not to build it

Isn’t it like required for TWW

[sturdy condor]

No

[winter plinth]

I swear it was required for some mission

[sturdy condor]

I mean sure build it bit 1k ducats is to much

[winter plinth]

Chimera prologue?

[sturdy condor]

Tnw?

[winter plinth]

That’s the cost of like 2 baro weapons

[sturdy condor]

I don't think any mission force us to build paracecis

[winter plinth]

I’m 100% sure one did

Maybe it’s been updated since then to not require it

[sturdy condor]

The new war sorta just give it to us

[winter plinth]

Yeah I’m talking about before new war

[supple dagger]

It was only required to get the erra cinematic

[winter plinth]

Pretty sure new war gives it to use in case people sold theirs

[supple dagger]

But DE changed that

[sturdy condor]

Chimera is para, second one is shedu and the last one id just a cutscene

[supple dagger]

it was reward for 2nd cinematic

i forgor

You get Paracesis from Chimera. You used to need it to get the Erra Cinematic

well atleast not to build

[opal rapids]

TNW Ordis saying "I rebuilt your Paracesis" gave me a heart attack. I had 6 forma in that thing, what did he mean "rebuilt"

[swift pond]

My man went and forma'd a new Paracesis just for you, absolute legend.

Even put the same mods on it, just as you built it. Best dad.

[runic schooner]

why did erra have to sacrifice himself when we could literally block that thing with our mech anyway

[swift pond]

Because our mechs plot thrusters ran out.

I honestly don't know. That was easily the weakest scene in a good story quest.

[cyan crest]

Yeah lmao out mech literally broke down because plot

that was the moment Erra ran out of plot armor

[runic schooner]

wouldve been better if we were somehow ahead of erra and the rubble just blocked erra from joining us

rather than some plot armor that makes no sense

[cunning copper]

I actually saw Erra's 180 in loyalty as poorly done anyway so...

Plus he already survived being destroyed before, so until we see a corpse i'm not going to believe he's actually gone.

I just realized something about the coming apartments on the Zariman, i'll have to move my orbiter decorations there so I actually have enough room to place them how I want them.

[real niche]

The sun was gonna blow up anyway, might as well do whatever so that doesn't happen

[cunning copper]

That was the Sentients original plan for the origin system anyway, why would Erra care?

Don't the Sentients still exist in Tau?

[swift pond]

They wanted to destroy the Orokin and their creations, not the system.

[strange python]

Because senteints like to get a tan, you think natah looks like that with no maintenance?

[cunning copper]

The Devourers original purpose was always to eat the sun

Quest dialogue even states as much

They always intended to destroy the sun, so why would Erra suddenly change his mind?

[sly plinth]

I beg to differ, seeing as how that ship's original intention was to eat the sun

[swift pond]

How does that line up with them A. not wanting that and B. wanting the Orokin specifically dead because they ruined the system?

The whole point was that they saw their masters as self-destructive morons who would ruin Tau as well, and wanted to prevent that. Throwing an entire potential system for them to inhabit seems a bit short-sighted.

[strange python]

I think erra most likely changed as he got a wiff of ballas's real plan. Erra seemed like he rather wanted what was best for sentients and ballas could care less as long as natah and the tenno were his

[sly plinth]

the entire story played with character's alignments like tossing a magnet around a compass

[swift pond]

Maybe Ballas or someone under his orders designed Praghasa with that function for his plans? If it was the Sentients intention, you'd think that'd have been a huge deal in the last war too.

[sly plinth]

they said that praghasa was from the old war though

[swift pond]

She was the progenitor of sentients apparently, so I am not disputing that point.

My point is that the sun-eating thing would have been a slightly bigger concern than Hunhow, who was basically treated as the big bad at the time.

[sly plinth]

I'm pretty sure they try to imply that it existed in the old war too but the writing is just so bad and they needed something big and surprising for the new war so why not something that eats the sun. Though it would be hard for that to be surprising if we already heard about it. All of this is assuming they actually planned the story out from the start which... uh... yeah

[swift pond]

I guess the best excuse is that Praghasa was a skeleton at that point in Old War, only revived in New War thousands of years and gaslighting on Ballas' part later.

Don't even think we needed the sun eating thing either, Lotus' broken marriage and strained relationship with her adopted kids was the emotional crux of the whole ordeal. The fact everyone was enslaved should be dire enough.

[sly plinth]

but if there wasn't a sun eating monster then how could they give Erra the least climactic death ever?

[swift pond]

Sacrifice for his sister maybe? You can have Ballas gank Erra without gimping the mechs.

[sly plinth]

no, no, you're trying to make his death actually mean something. If he dies for a purpose that's going too far

[swift pond]

Well just give him a pointless necramech fight then idk. Have him die an idiot who followed his toxic bestie to the end.

Bird man got shafted man, I want Hunhow back.

[sly plinth]

there was so much in the new war and somehow so little

like we had more hunhow and stalker and somehow the stalker is still just "that one guy who won't give me the war"

it feels like they wanted to put so much in, that they didn't actually go into any sort of depth with any parts of the quest

[swift pond]

DEs general MO really - neat ideas, not enough time given to them before the next butterfly passes the office window.

[past kiln]

Idk why they just had to dump Erra like that and not let us use our mech lol

He should have survived to at least the ballas boss fight

[cunning copper]

Again, until we see his corpse, i'm not convinced he's dead

He allegedly died before yet survived

[swift pond]

He is narratively dead until the writers find something for him to do besides longue around the water cooler with Maroo and the Maggot Queen.

[past kiln]

They still should have had him in the final boss fight in one way or another

[bronze anchor]

We didnt see the dead body of erra when he got "crushed" by the rubble just saying, its common sense that he's still alive

[subtle crown]

No body no death. Especially since Erra has been killed before and came back like nothing happened.

[fossil fractal]

can you link the thing about angel of zariman

[torpid lantern]

Gonna just casually post this again as a reminder that the Void Angels are a new enemy type so they are very likely not Warframes. It could be Tenno possibly but it could also be the parents or something entirely from the void.

[subtle crown]

Ooh, I wonder if that means the sirocco will finally not be hot garbage.

[strange python]

Hey hey, that overload works wonders. Sometimes

[fossil fractal]

its better than mote amp right

[torpid lantern]

Killing them is how you upgrade it so I guess itll be upgraded.. garbage? 😅

[fossil fractal]

so its more just garbage

than hot garbage

[torpid lantern]

I like it! I just need to figure out how to use it properly

[fossil fractal]

well weapon evolutions sound sick

[strange python]

Are those relic symbols?

[fossil fractal]

ill be honest theres custom primaries, secondaries, melee, and companions, i would love a custom warframe

[subtle crown]

You use it properly against level 20 enemies thanks to the overcharge mechanic. Then for anything higher you use a 111 or any other combination that deals a lot more damage.

Custom warframe = helminth.

[torpid lantern]

I miss how cool it was in the quest

[fossil fractal]

i guess

[subtle crown]

The enemies are all level 15 or 20. The sirocco still functions at those levels.

[bronze anchor]

Stealth amp

[fossil fractal]

just it would be cool if you could like custom build warframes like kitguns or zaws

so it wouldnt be like as effective as specialized frames

but it would be decent enough at an all rounder

[subtle crown]

But if you want to actually kill enemies with it then you're building a custom amp for triple+ damage.

[torpid lantern]

That would break the lore so I have to say that would be very uncool

[fossil fractal]

in what way would it break lore

[subtle crown]

It will be fascinating to see the focus changes. Would mean the steel path solo operator build no longer functions.

[bronze anchor]

Its been 2 years was it? Modular Archwin when

[torpid lantern]

Unless you mean Helminth swapping out abilities because that makes sense.

[fossil fractal]

i mean like cosmetics and all that

i dont remember anything in lore restricting custom-built warframes

i could be wrong though

[subtle crown]

The lore very much says no.

[fossil fractal]

must have missed something then

[subtle crown]

Xaku especially highlighting the fact it was 3 failure warframes left to the scrap heap that were like "no".

Each and every warframe was built with a purpose they filled.

[torpid lantern]

The Warframes were designed by the Orokin. The Tenno rebuild them using data that gives them the blueprints of the frames. Tenno don't make their own designs. They can't. They don't know how nor would want to since a new one would require infecting a real human being

[subtle crown]

Then the battle to go from concept to production was brutal with a 66% failure rate.

[torpid lantern]

Maybe? I dont recall Ballas having failures. He had a few Warframe hosts change the design on him last second though

[supple dagger]

I assume you're basing that off Ivara Leverian

[subtle crown]

3 frames enter, 1 frame leaves. The other two are scrapped. Hence the 3 failed frames that comprise Xaku.

[supple dagger]

Xaku is unrelated to that

[night raptor]

More like there's three frames banished into the void that then broke down and became one I think

[supple dagger]

Xaku was made of 3 already complete frames. They they got lost in Void expeditions and the Orokin managed to recover the parts

And Ballas pretty much said "waste not want not"

[night raptor]

Not how I read it. It sounds more like the three combined over time

Meh I just want a good minigun

[subtle crown]

Get yourself a supra vandal. About as close as you will get.

[bronze anchor]

Tenora, it spins like a minigun

Supra is more of a machine gun

[fossil fractal]

custom warframes would be cool, but if lore wise it doesnt make sense i wont mind helminth exists as a budget version

[supple dagger]

Ivara Leverian is the closest thing we can call failures.

[bronze anchor]

Be an orokin and make ur own warframe

[subtle crown]

If you want that absurd fire rate bullet hose feel then supra is the gun for you.