spoiler-chat

[solid otter]

Nah, you don't

Whuh forgot about the wally part at the end of the war within

[proper merlin]

okay thank you!

[vestal dome]

I'm not sure which would be funnier, if this was being honest or if it was lying.

[undone lodge]

before they were scientists the Entrati’s started out as the equivalent to the Kardashians

Finally. Solid, ironclad confirmation against the weird child Wally allegations some people have

[twilit jetty]

Anyone know when the Alternate Version of the Riftguard Syandana will be added. given i was expecting to maybe see it with the Resurgance Rotation yet nope.

[thick jolt]

We havent been told but my guess is tennocon the same way they did the alternate backpack one

[visual birch]

Its honest simaris deadass running a scam forcing u to go through a loading screen just to read some lore

Honestly one the most annoying things

Is there even a way to go to simalcrum without going to relays

[twilit jetty]

Really They said when they showed it off that it would be added to Varzia's stock for people who dident get the tennocon version of the Riftguard syandana. and that people that already owned the original version would get it in there inbox when it was added for free

i mean we already know that this Years Tennocon is a Ephemera

Maybe in the un-announced update

[thick jolt]

That is the "how", yeah the alternate backpack is also on varzia's shop

What i was saying is the "when" if i recall correctly they launched the alternate "tennocon" backpack during the following year's tennocon

[wild wind]

Oh good guess

[twilit jetty]

Ah fair

[long lantern]

Makes sense to do it that way, itll likely be added when the new Digital Ticket gets added to the shop

[twilit jetty]

I mean the digital Ticket got leaked and all it has is the Hunhullus Ephemera in it.

[flat tree]

Why doesn't Narmer try to hijack ships?

Are they unqualified?

[zenith jacinth]

??

[cerulean kiln]

Because they can just put masks on face and command them that way instead

[undone lodge]

They probably would in-universe

But the big ship tilesets we go on aren’t exactly great targets

Since unless they were just hitching a ride or doing a hit and run they’d need blueprints/specs, enough spare staff with the necessary knowledge to replace whichever ones die during the takeover before they can start Veiling, the infrastructure to actually support the ship

Stuff like that

[twilit jetty]

I guess Ballas never accounted for Space battles when he Made Narmer only Trained in Ground

[zenith jacinth]

narmer isn't trained in anything they just mind control ppl

[twilit jetty]

Then i guess he was Hoping mostly the sentients would handle issues in space...and never Accounted for someone stealing a Murix and Crashing it into the mothership

[zenith jacinth]

or, get this... they just put a veil on a trained pilot

[twilit jetty]

Well im sure will see if they learned anything If this next update is Narmer Themed as the Tennocon Sigil Suggests

[celest hollow]

or

orrrrrr

sentient themed

[solid otter]

Its seemingly just origin system sentients over just. Narmer

Where's the tennocon image hold on

Woe

[echo basalt]

isnt this tennocon gonna be about tau?

[hearty pendant]

prolly
the tennocon logo there definitely has a ton of those sentient energy designs on it

[echo basalt]

so what we guessing? narmer is the main enemy in tau?

[zenith jacinth]

possible but I personally doubt it

[echo basalt]

i mean it makes sense

[wild wind]

It's possible the Tau update proper is getting delayed to next year

[echo basalt]

why's that?

[wild wind]

And instead we'll get Narmer in-system

[wild wind]

No particular reason, just that New War got delayed like three years in a row

[echo basalt]

thats because of covid

[wild wind]

DE hitting release targets for five years straight is the outlier really

[wild wind]

Naw, it was railjack

[solid otter]

Eh

[wild wind]

Empyrean was rough for DE

[hearty pendant]

there were a lot of other factors w/ new war, though
from what i've heard at least

[solid otter]

I wouldn't say there gonna miss the end of year update tbh

[wild wind]

Not denying it

But if they had a good enough idea I could see them slotting a huge Narmer update in before Tau proper

[solid otter]

And. Saying 2026 Tau and miss it might cause them legal issues, can't exactly promise something and not go through

[zenith jacinth]

I don't think DE would give us "tau 2026" if they weren't sure they could get it done in time

[echo basalt]

i mean yea that could be the fall update

[wild wind]

Err, no???

[solid otter]

This too lol

[wild wind]

That's not how that works lol

Claiming a date and missing a date is a problem when it's a contract where people have exchanged money

If they schedule slipped the Tau update it's an issue between DE and Tencent

If they changed plans it's not an issue because Tencent is still getting their deliverable (a content update in winter that will induce players to spend money)

[solid otter]

Investors + can go under hot water due to false advertising

Its an extreme case but it can happen

[wild wind]

Okay we're now getting close to my actual field and I reiterate that's when money has exchanged hands

Revealing something and missing the date does not put anyone on the hook

If DE completely whiffs and Tau is February with no update in 2026, Steve gets some pointed questions from Tencent and the next several all-hands meetings are about figuring out why they whiffed

If DE delays Tau because they have a different idea they want to do first, nothing happens

[tight pagoda]

The only way we're not getting Tau this year is if we have another COVID situation or things are shutdown for reasons beyond DE's control.

I don't think DE would've announced Tau 2026 if they weren't confident they could get it out.

[echo basalt]

Guesses accountant

[wild wind]

I've done that too tbh so a good guess

[delicate bolt]

Wait, tau update is not old peace ?

[balmy storm]

Nope, Old Peace is about us uncovering our memories of Tau

[echo basalt]

tau is going to tau

[tight pagoda]

Old Peace is memories of Tau, the end of 2026 update will be about returning to present-day Tau

[echo basalt]

we also

don't have any idea on how were getting there outside of A. rebuilding the solar rail and taking the railjack B. using pergasha, or C. some other way

[fierce kiln]

probably sentient grandma

she isnt dead so keeping here lingering there would be odd

we will probably have one last meeting with hunhow too or ask if he will come too

[uncut solar]

It's Hunhow

[solid otter]

I definitely think its. Related to hunhow over Narmer

[uncut solar]

We tell him about Tau and he gets up and out of the water like the grandpa from willie wonka and the chocolate factory

He was ok all along

He is just very happy to go home

[amber terrace]

If DE puts Hunhow as a pivotal character in Tau 2026 I would be very pleasantly surprised. Idk if I’m interpreting this wrong, but Hunhow’s mail message after Jade Shadows gives me the vibe of Hunhow basically hanging up the hat

The line that sold me was “I remain: the great and terrible Hunhow.”

[hearty pendant]

he kinda did that in TNW
his whole 'sitting in a hole, waiting to die' bit

[uncut solar]

He means that it's the stalker who left

And he remains as is

[amber terrace]

Either way my point still stands

[hearty pendant]

indeed
i'm not sure if he'd continue sitting at the bottom of the ocean or show up to go to tau or not

[amber terrace]

Don’t get me wrong, I would love to see more Hunhow, his voice is hot as heck

I just don’t see DE fishing him out of Uranus’ oceans so he can see his grandkids bumrush Tau

[uncut solar]

He just needs a really good stretch

[obtuse gyro]

imo rail is more likely

you need a way to reliably travel back and forth

plus de hinted at rebuilding the rail to tau

[uncut solar]

Could be a very cool operation

[fierce kiln]

words cant describe my love for xatas whisper

will mod proj speed to my detron once maxed

[undone lodge]

Most likely gonna be going via the Rail. We already know about the stuff with Pazuul+Narmer, Zariman’s kinda busy rn and normal travel or RJ would take too long, and if what happened at the end of TNW according to Pom-2 is any indication it isn’t a good idea to open portals of that kind of scale up

[echo basalt]

i mean we can take the RJ on the solar rail

gonna need some fire power in case we find some wack shit

[undone lodge]

…I meant as in, using the Railjack for it’s Reliquary

[echo basalt]

oh right

[cerulean kiln]

Imagine watching a Railjack trying to jump to Tau

500 jumps later and it still isn’t there

[tame canopy]

So the entrati got obols, which seems to be their own currency somehow

Do you think other orokin families have their own currencies?

[undone lodge]

Maybe a few, but probably not

[tame canopy]

Actually, stupid question, pre fall, did they used credits or did they had their own currency?

[undone lodge]

Unknown, IIRC Ducats were an Orokin currency, but I don’t think we know if everyone else used it

[undone lodge]

Obols were significant because of just how influential and reputed the Entrati became

[undone lodge]

There probably was a universal currency of some kind, since there was interplanetary trade on a level that entire societies could survive on and be centred on it, and we know of being rich/wealthy being a thing below the Orokin

[tame canopy]

the orokin's abundance were beyond categories, so based on what I know about them, they probably partook in some trading for novelties, if nothing else

They could also take whatever they want by force at any point, but I imagine they don't do this all the time - keywords, all the time, when their forces could be allotted to dealing with, say, inter-personal conflicts amongst orokin families

[undone lodge]

Universal

As in

Everyone

Not just the orokin

[uncut solar]

Ducats?

No?

[onyx pecan]

Dude im gonna have a coniption

The new war quest as the capitalist dudes makes me wanna pull my hair out i have NO health

[solid otter]

Use the shield moa

[tame canopy]

I was musing on the extent in which the orokins would exchange goods and services, is all

the idea is that they likely at least trade with other non-orokins for novelties, it doesn't mean they just trade amongst themselves. Idk if they need foodstuff or other assorted base necessities for their citizens when they have their own productive forces and landmass to manufacture those, ie. prime grineers, farmers (granum's backstory).

anyway, I got my 75% coupon, and today, I decided to splurged for my favorite warframe, valkyr

brought her whole heirloom

[desert aurora]

my orbit without helmet came out?

[solid otter]

Hehe.

:)

[visual birch]

I havent sen him anymore. When does he stop appearing in orbiter

[desert aurora]

so.. what's the gift? only the harrow blueprint?

[visual birch]

Yuh pretty much I think

Just do the next quests

[zenith jacinth]

never

[visual birch]

Bro doesnt like visiting me 😭 ✌️

[desert aurora]

have to wait for this sh8 vro

and this sh8 is hard

[solid otter]

Go make yourself something to eat

[desert aurora]

already had some snacks XD

[cerulean kiln]

I managed to prevent him ever visiting

Placing 2 chairs seemingly breaks his code

He hasn't visited me since a bit before Old Peace

[fierce kiln]

lmao

the indifference, beaten by 2 chairs

[stoic nymph]

I slide

[uncut solar]

The chairs of love and affection

[solid otter]

Slideee

[amber terrace]

Question about the 1999 calendar tasks, specifically about the melee kills portion. Does Voruna’s 4/UwU pounce count as a melee kill?

[zenith jacinth]

no

but atlas's landslide does

[amber terrace]

If only I was able to make Atlas consistently work ;-;

My problem is the first like two mins before I get max rubble armor where everything costs like 67 morbillion energy

[zealous latch]

i see no god up here other than me

[amber terrace]

B0ss where’s ur health bar?

[desert aurora]

um guys? i unlocked the room, mistakenly pressed X to a blue orb, followed a line now im here

[ornate carbon]

hold w

im psure youre fine

[zealous latch]

bro gonna know pain

[zealous latch]

there was sadly no frame spawn next time will time it

[zenith jacinth]

just spam 1

[amber terrace]

That’s the thing, I tried that, I always run out of energy way too fast ;-;

[zenith jacinth]

energize

equlibrium

[onyx pecan]

With how family and relationship oriented the story is i wonder how long its gonna take for the tenno to start asking the real questions.

Like why they don't need to eat, or shower.

[willow mango]

does choosing between ||lotus, margulis and uhh natah|| changes anything ? 😂

[willow mango]

my friend even said he feels like a therapist in this game, all about family drama

[visual birch]

No its just cosmetic i think

Story wise def doesn't change anything but it might change some rewards or something like that

Like u get sigil or something maybe idk though

[willow mango]

oh oke. i am conflicted who i choose and the white and black symbols dont help.

[visual birch]

The balck and white is just a choice thing it dont mean anything

[thick jolt]

Well it does have a meaning, but yeah doesnt affect gameplay

[zenith jacinth]

it changes people's opinion of you

[zealous latch]

I think mission transmissions/dialog changes?

You can buy skins for 165p to swap

[visual birch]

They do but its just the name not anything else

Afaik

Cause they not making a bunch of different dialogue

[zealous latch]

I swear i chose natah and the dialogue between lotus and natah are diffrent

[zenith jacinth]

it's not, they just have different filter intensity

[visual birch]

I chose natah cause thats the realest her

[calm horizon]

Excuse me what????

[zenith jacinth]

what?

[calm horizon]

Oh I started old peace

And I wasn't expecting Excalibur prime

[calm horizon]

ARE YOU KIDDING ME I GOTTA DEAL WITH THIS THING AGAIN

[zenith jacinth]

technically you haven't dealt with him before at that point

[calm horizon]

True but you know what I mean

Also hi Uriel

I..isn't that the archon? The wolf one?? I swear his name was amar

[zenith jacinth]

yes

archons are made up of dead sentients glued onto frame bodies, archon amar's head is from that amar

[hearty pendant]

pre-archon amar

[flat tree]

What a kind wolf

[hearty pendant]

watch how kind he gets !

[calm horizon]

I saved him till last

[balmy storm]

You mean was?

[zenith jacinth]

easiest for last

[calm horizon]

Nah I wanted to have a wolf 1v1 with my voruna in the climatic battle

[flat tree]

https://tenor.com/view/cute-dog-fight-bark-gif-14228699

[zenith jacinth]

it's a very anticlimactic battle

[calm horizon]

NOOO

[distant stirrup]

Guys I found something BIG

Just go to the area of the map. We may have a new orb fight!

[calm horizon]

IM GLAD I KILLED BALLAS

[zenith jacinth]

you are HILAROUSLY late

[distant stirrup]

Huh...

[zenith jacinth]

that orb was discovered years ago, and the narmer drone also has been 1 or 2 years ago

[celest thorn]

well I just beat fossa

[distant stirrup]

Has it always been active?

Cause it's moving

[zenith jacinth]

the drone?

[distant stirrup]

No the big massive orb thing

[zenith jacinth]

idk

[warped marten]

yes

I do wonder why there's a narmer drone tho

[zenith jacinth]

narmorb

[spring solar]

If we ever go to Tau, I hope that we can get Bloom Guardians like Amar (or at least entities styled on them) as Kubrow adjacent entities.

Even if it's just a skin, because Amar is beautiful in his original self

[warped marten]

I wanna see how Boreal and Nira looked before

[echo basalt]

i mean one would probably look like the owl yokai from nioh 2 and the other would be a big danger noodle

[warped marten]

yes but Amar had a sigil and stuff

[calm horizon]

I loved this part.

[balmy storm]

It makes sense that Narmer would be looking into it, it’s got sentient tech

[balmy storm]

We will, later this year
And there likely aren’t any bloom guardians left since the blooms are likely extinct ):

No more fragment individuality

[spring solar]

Alive, no, but recreated? Maybe. Their designs are likely still around in some capacity... and you never know. If they make an Adversary in the form of the Sentients as they did with the Liches, Sisters and Coda, that could be a means to gain and relinquish them. Who knows.

[balmy storm]

I’m not saying the guardians are extinct, I’m saying the xenoflora, the thing they protected likely is
We could ofc still see Sentient liches

We also don’t know how many guardians there were, if Amar was one then presumably the other Archons may have been too

[thick jolt]

all the orbs have been in certain places in orb vallis since it launched

[cosmic quiver]

We really need a horn on the bike. Let me honk.

Cause I summon my bike at the end of random missions and I don't want to leave extract, but I have an indescrible impulse to "Beep beep" at my teammates in extract.

[celest hollow]

no

bc trying to recreate the doppler effect might be a bit hard

[brave marlin]

I think I accidently bugged my Roathe out, and I was told they have rolled back hotfixes they were going to put out for him.... Anyone here romance him before that can tell me, IF I HAVE TO RESET HIM (I got a ticket in to see if I can get a full reset with no lore implications).... can I still date him after the memory reset?

[wild wind]

Yes you can

Different conversation set

[vestal dome]

So, I'm having an issue with Lyon. How do I trigger the other date permutations, instead of just always doing the Sanctum one?

[wild wind]

Wait a week

They unlock one per week over five weeks

[vestal dome]

And then how do I use them?

[wild wind]

They're captura scenes

[steady inlet]

awww, you left out the best part!

"Rap tap tap! You let me in, little piggy!"

[desert aurora]

Me became orphan

Mother held another guys hand, took off her helmet

And gone

[zealous latch]

Still u can do next quest take your time dont rush em but u may get to know who was that dude

[desert aurora]

Im talking abt mother lotus

[zealous latch]

I know and i am saying if u do next quests u may figure out why this happened whatever happaned also lore wise now is the time when u will do jupiter boss in a bit

[vestal dome]

Orb 3 fight just might be a Narmer fight

[zealous latch]

I thought we might get in undermind but sadly nope

[desert aurora]

Me feel sad when mother did that tho 😔

[zealous latch]

We all did but we all had to wait 6ish months to play next quest for new war like 3 years but now u can do next quest as its here in your journy you shall wait with the rest of us for post peace

[zealous latch]

Yea this was us for 3 ish years

[desert aurora]

So how many chapters till i get her back?

[desert aurora]

💀💀

[tight pagoda]

Apostasy Prologue (mama leaves)
The Sacrifice (about 50 minutes)
Prelude to War (mostly just mildly interactive cutscenes)
The New War (5-ish hours, while doing it you're locked out of all other WF content but there's regular checkpoints so you don't need to do it at once)

[zealous latch]

Not gonna spoil

Also did anyone else feel like there needs to be a peritia mission that just the missions no boss mode? Endless farm potential right there

[tight pagoda]

Literally talking about ||exploiting Tau of it's resources|| like you're an Orokin lmao

[calm horizon]

No i didn't

[desert aurora]

Holy shit

Could have just lost our ship and try to get it back would be enough

[wild wind]

Originally it would have taken several days to progress to the New War

The base star chart is much easier now so that more players can reach 1999 and other new content asap

[desert aurora]

I see

[dusky acorn]

😂

[tame canopy]

I unlocked nidri

honestly, I got 2/5 tauron strikes now, another one from zenurik

Too bad apparently you need to equip the relevant schools to actually use the operator mods 💀

Someone should gift me the tauron strike pack 3 times 😭

[zenith jacinth]

excuse me, 6?

[tame canopy]

typo, 5

im curious
what's y'all first tauron strike, if you grinded for them

[zenith jacinth]

vexoric

[uncut solar]

The STAFF OF VAZARIN

[tame canopy]

Mine is zenurik

For some reason the absolutely close up shot of lyon's face and him being static with dramatic voicelines crack me up

The idea is just to get tauron strike for the very first school I picked, then the school related to revives so I can use it for support in ETA/EDA or any particularly hard missions lol

[zenith jacinth]

I got vexoric bc I wanted the strike for my main school, then nidri bc the honoria was cool

[hearty pendant]

grabbed thara then vexoric as they looked cool + i use madurai the most
would grab lorak if it was cooler, alas
don't use the other two schools enough to justify grinding their artifacts (though i'll probably get around to it eventually)

[uncut solar]

I picked the staff because everything else was useless for frames I play

And it's a WIZARD STAFF

[tame canopy]

Trvth nuke, wizard staff rocks

[zenith jacinth]

it is also the objectively strongest tauron strike

[thick iron]

they really like giving me these i don't even need it 😭

[fierce kiln]

ive only ever had it twice

nearing day 500 now

[warped marten]

does it?

[solid otter]

Mhm, the. Shield stuff from memory

[wispy coral]

Uhm

[solid otter]

Green is for what Jade would've chosen, red for what stalker would

It doesn't matter, we haven't seen them since this

[wispy coral]

Orion it is then

[uncut solar]

In 2035 we will see Jade Shadows 2

Since Stalker left Hunhow

It'll be Stalker and the boy, like Kratos and Atreus

[solid otter]

Lil baby !!

Cute little baby... baby Orion..

[zenith jacinth]

if stalker says "Boy" to him so the name choice doesn't affect stuff much I'd accept it

[visual birch]

Isnt Sirius a girls name?

[cerulean kiln]

I know a character from a show who was female with that name, yeah

It’s probably a name you can use for 2 genders like Charlie

[fierce kiln]

technically its latin and -us were male names

while ending in -a were typically womans

[hearty pendant]

somewhat sure both options are masculine in origin
but i could see sirius being feminine as well

[solid otter]

Orion... Orion pax..

[visual birch]

Tenno... bullet jump out 🥹 🥶 🔥

Stalker finna get slimed and then Orion gonna start giving insane speeches in 2045 when we go to tau

[zenith jacinth]

since when

only sirius I know of is from harry potter

[misty veldt]

"My name is Orion we are here and we are waiting"

[solid otter]

Ohh if only I can remember enough of his long ass speeches to say them

[deft mist]

Nice

[balmy storm]

The orbs have sentient shielding

[echo basalt]

i mean why else do both randomly speak english (or whatever the hell warframe's common language is offically called) when the other corpus proxies don't

[warped marten]

isn't there like human minds in them?

[zenith jacinth]

no that's cephalons

[hearty pendant]

The Business: "The Mothers are a product of Corpus breakthroughs using salvaged Sentient technology. Traditional weapons are ineffective against them. Their command and control systems have thus far proven impenetrable."

The Business: "Profit-Taker is an autonomous battle platform piloted by hybrid AI, with Sentient adaptive shielding,"

the orbs were not

[zenith jacinth]

no I mean
cephalons are made from human minds

[flat tree]

what if you

stole a grineer cloning facility

revived nihil

used the clone brains

endless cephalons

[undone lodge]

Even better

Do whatever they did to make Cephalons Cephalons and not just digitised people and either take the knowledge or just make him tell you

That way you don’t have to deal with his whining

[next ginkgo]

so is it me or void armageddon's extraction bug is either back or hasn't been fixed since 2022? because I'm trying to do nightwave and 3 times in a row after completing the objectives and bounties, cavallero telling me I get to extract, in 13 min + missions extraction never spawns so I'm forced to abort with the elevator, causing mission failure

I'm kinda done trying to do that nightwave mission by now, feels like a waste of time

[amber terrace]

So what did we collect all those nightmare tatters for?

[wild wind]

Like, in game?

Copying the Follie portrait in Vesper

[amber terrace]

Ah, so where is it gonna show up?

[wild wind]

Supposedly the Arbiters will have a more accessible version that won't require going to a destroyed relay for

[amber terrace]

Also, did Zorba get eternalism’d into showing up at all the relays?

[hearty pendant]

gameplay > lore for that one

[wild wind]

Haha no he just happens to be hanging out on whatever relay you're at

[hearty pendant]

same as amaryn, cressa tal, ergo glast, etc

[visual birch]

Theres actually a seperate reliquiary drive in all their rooms that teleports them to each relay whenever the door is about to open

[balmy storm]

Every other individual we also see in every relay:

[vestal dome]

insert joke about kaya and ordis only showing up at larunda

[echo basalt]

Honestly they should switch at least cressa with a hologram cause she's at iron wake

Or like set up a vid call or something

[tight pagoda]

Ordis is there specifically because Larunda is closest to the sun, so he can send the motes out to be burned

[visual birch]

She already at all the relays whats wrong with iron wake too

[echo basalt]

She's there cause its steel meridian's base

[wild wind]

Kinda disappointed we never saw the other factions get similar

I'd love to see the Veil temple all rebuilt

[thick jolt]

Can only imagine how funny suda's base would be

[wild wind]

It's entirely possible it's just a walkable version of the datascape with random things floating around based on her interests

[tight pagoda]

Would be peak if players were given Dante's walking animations for that area, just floating around in data

[amber terrace]

I just realized, Kaya is at Larunda, so would it be entirely out of the realm of possibility for Tenno era Drifter to take Kaya to Deimos and see how she interacts with the Triad?

[solid otter]

Probably, but id be worried about bringing another person to the sanctum, its. Supposed to be predominantly a secret

[amber terrace]

I mean, the family kinda knows about the happenings in the basement?

[solid otter]

-# im still not particularly happy with Roathe risking God knows what letting the cavia and loid up there

[solid otter]

Yeah, thats. True, but id imagine if word got back to someone like Parvos that its indeed open, they'd have. An possible issue regarding corpus

[next imp]

Old pic from when I first played old peace

[thick jolt]

That's like 5 months old or less

[gilded cedar]

"See you any visions worthy of ink?"
-Orlick the Bicameral, Soulframe
H m m

[wild wind]

snrk

He'd get along great with Follie and Zorba

[thick jolt]

Dante too what with certain book related incidents they share

[zenith jacinth]

orlick the guy whose beard I wanna steal

[dusky acorn]

Does the duviri locate inside the zariman ?

[wild wind]

ish

Rather the Drifter's Zariman seems to have become Duviri, at least in part

[dusky acorn]

Drifter's zariman ?
Why is there now more than one after the timeline break ?

[wild wind]

Technically it's all the same Zariman

[zenith jacinth]

there are and aren't multiple

[wild wind]

But the Drifter's specific version of it unfolded into Duviri, at least partially

(it's still connected to the actual Void-lost Zariman, which also is visible in Duviri's sky)

don't think about it too much, the Void is weird and doesn't care

[dusky acorn]

@wild wind @zenith jacinth ha

My brain

[zenith jacinth]

the multiple zarimen are all one zariman

[dusky acorn]

How

[zenith jacinth]

yes

[dusky acorn]

Nh

[wild wind]

In real world physics, black holes break a lot of what we know about reality

[dusky acorn]

And we still don't know much about them to say they break physics

[wild wind]

we do know some things, like how they can slow time

[dusky acorn]

Slow time cuz of gravity which is what we know

[wild wind]

anyway, the Zariman in the sky is possibly a reflection of Duviri

or Duviri is the reflection

[dusky acorn]

Where is the undercroft and the place teshin is in ? @wild wind

[uncut solar]

It formed like a layer between Zariman and the void

[wild wind]

Teshin's cave is the place closest to the passage to the "real" Zariman

[uncut solar]

Zariman is plugging the hole to the void and duviri formed around the void side

[hearty pendant]

undercroft is basically on the edges of duviri iirc
where duviri ends and the void begins

[wild wind]

The Undercroft is.... hm. Basically unexplained, tbh.

We can speculate but they've never said for certain.

[uncut solar]

It's some sort of under... Croft

[dusky acorn]

What about the undercroft

[dusky acorn]

So what are the enemies their ?

[zenith jacinth]

spectres of armies that do not yet exist

[wild wind]

I just checked the wiki and the very first thing is does is whiff on its citation lol

the Undercroft seems to be Duviri's backrooms is how I'd phrase it?

[zenith jacinth]

I wish they'd give a teshin voice volume slider like they did for ordis so I can listen for decree fragments without an old man shouting in my ear

[wild wind]

you know how it's a storybook right, and every day Mother reads a chapter until the Orowyrm goes berserk?

[dusky acorn]

How did his aura disappeared 😔

[hearty pendant]

Sythel does say that the undercroft is "too close to the void"

[dusky acorn]

Not yet ?

[zenith jacinth]

yes

[tight pagoda]

The Jackal didn't exist when Duviri was conceptualized

[wild wind]

The parts of the story that aren't happening that day are stored there, maybe

[zenith jacinth]

duviri paradox, we're preventing failures that haven't happened

[dusky acorn]

So the order is like this ?
Void - undercroft - duviri - zariman -techen - solar system ?

[wild wind]

Well, we're also changing things that did

[wild wind]

no no, Duviri is in the deep void

[zenith jacinth]

which makes it so they didn't

[wild wind]

The part that doesn't touch reality

[uncut solar]

The positioning is weird

[hearty pendant]

although rune marrow's description would also say that the undercroft is at the "core" of duviri

[dusky acorn]

So how what how did it exist in davori

[wild wind]

Because the Corpus sent probes and exploration teams into the Void

[fading current]

For fun thoughts, what would a teshin version of an Orowrym look like..? Like I know probably basic colors but what would YOU guys like it to look like if he ever got something like that. A complete what if? Situation.

[hearty pendant]

“Rune Marrow erupts from Duviri's core.”
and rune marrow's only found in the undercroft

[wild wind]

The Orowyrms really only change accents from version to version

[dusky acorn]

AAA so that's what's the paradox

[uncut solar]

Teshin orowyrm won't stop talking about conclave

[wild wind]

The "Paradox" is that the Operator and Drifter both help the other one after they've already been helped

[zenith jacinth]

well the actual paradox is operator helping drifter leave as thanks for drifter helping in tnw, which they didn't do yet

[dusky acorn]

What the sh**

[wild wind]

The Operator helps after New War, after they've been helped by the Drifter, who will be helped by the Operator

And around and around it goes

No beginning or end

[dusky acorn]

How did the operator helped drifter ? @wild wind

[wild wind]

A paradox

[wild wind]

The Warframes in Teshin's cave

[dusky acorn]

I mean what w1y

[dusky acorn]

Am I the only one who understood that as his Warframe drops to the void ?

[wild wind]

You send them the three starters during the quest, and then all the other Warframes and weapons that you might one day have access to

haha, not like that, remember you can just walk in through a door

[tight pagoda]

Blue= the Void, everywhere but not a threat
Cyan = raw dangerous void power
Red= Duviri
Green = origin system/reality
yellow= the Zariman, plugging a hole of raw void and bridging the gap between Duviri, the Void and the Origin system

And uhhh Undercroft is probably somewhere too hang on

[dusky acorn]

W 🗿

[wild wind]

The Zariman is the one stable portal to the Deep Void that (as of right now) isn't blowing up half the Origin System

[zenith jacinth]

if we gave teshin to the helminth and just let it do its thing, which frame would it theoretically give him

[wild wind]

Nothing, the Helminth really doesn't like Void

[dusky acorn]

Wait system insiide the void ?

[wild wind]

And Teshin's been around a lot of it for the future however many long years

[wild wind]

The Void is everything that isn't real

So by definition, yeah

[dusky acorn]

I can guess he will be so strong

[tight pagoda]

The void isn't a place, it's the barrier between dimensions, it's everywhere and everything

There are just holes in the void that let us enter that Void-y part of it

[dusky acorn]

Can the drifter enter and exit zariman freely ?

Or does he need to go throw zariman

[wild wind]

Drifter needs to go through the Zariman

[dusky acorn]

Didn't it not appear until the zariman quest ? @wild wind

[wild wind]

But theoretically can just teleport to the ship

That's what I was going to say, the Operator and Drifter can swap places

When you talk to Yonta on the Zariman, she can see both of you at once

[hearty pendant]

relevant i think

[wild wind]

Eleanor mentioned something similar in the 1999 demo (not real 1999)

[dusky acorn]

Cuz now that part in the zariman is in both the void and the reality so they exist simultaneously in the same space ?

[wild wind]

yeah, but it's only temporary

*that they can show up together, sorry

Since The Lotus Eater quest, the two have mostly split up

[dusky acorn]

What's sanctuam

[wild wind]

Sanctum Anatomica, Albrecht's labs on Deimos

[dusky acorn]

Is the drifter still in 1999 ?

[wild wind]

Not all the time but yeah

[hearty pendant]

1999/isleweaver/xx99/wherever you have them active

[dusky acorn]

Why not all the time ?

[wild wind]

There's other stuff to do, like Duviri and doing Dark Refractory for Roathe

[dusky acorn]

When the loop restart in 1999 does the protoframe have memories of last cycle ?

[wild wind]

Both will be going to Tau to chase Albrecht

[wild wind]

Yes, until you reset their memories

[dusky acorn]

• { I just started the game this month and now I wanna learn everything} *
  Normal ?

[wild wind]

The protoframes learn about the loop at the end of the Hex quest

[dusky acorn]

Why does he want to reset ? 🙁

[wild wind]

So they remember all dying

[dusky acorn]

So they don't know now ? @wild wind

[wild wind]

No that's a core memory, from "before" the loop

What happens is that when you do Hex Finale you change how that ended

[dusky acorn]

Does the 1999 event really happen in the past or is it a separate timeline where events happened

[wild wind]

So they get NEW memories on top of the old memories

Actual past of Warframe universe

[dusky acorn]

Does it not change the future ?

[wild wind]

Every loop changes the future yeah

That's why you have to keep the loop going

[dusky acorn]

How do we not see the effect ?

[dusky acorn]

What ?

[wild wind]

Because it ends up not mattering tbh

Several years after 1999 the infestation will break out across the world

The Radiation Wars will start and the Orokin will rise to power

[dusky acorn]

How did it start 🙂
-# feel like I am asking much no ?

[wild wind]

Those two things together end up erasing records of human history before the Orokin

[wild wind]

We don't know

probably the infestation just breaks quarantine in Hollvania

[dusky acorn]

Soooo everything about the void started with the fingers and entraty..

[wild wind]

But the Infestation wasn't made in Hollvania, it was just tested there

So it could break out anywhere and start the apocalypse

[solid otter]

Entrati, and yeah. Albrecht and Wally's fingers

[dusky acorn]

So he's the most important character ? @solid otter

[wild wind]

He thinks so.

[solid otter]

One of the most influential

[wild wind]

Ballas would disagree.

So would Hunhow.

[dusky acorn]

🗿

[solid otter]

Albrecht doesn't think he's the most important he goes to fix the shit he caused, which is just a lot

[dusky acorn]

Ball:ass is shit

[dusky acorn]

That's the Modesty

[solid otter]

He "thinks" he's important because he is, he isn't making himself as more than what he is

[wild wind]

Yeaaaaaaaaaah that's what I mean

He's the ONLY person who can stop what's coming

Heard that before

[dusky acorn]

I still wanna know what really happened at the cutscene where Loid break the machine Albert was in

[solid otter]

Loid breaks the time machine so wally cant follow

[wild wind]

yep that's it

[solid otter]

Trapping Albrecht in 1999, upon his request

[dusky acorn]

How and what ?

[wild wind]

Albrecht has a time machine

[dusky acorn]

And how do you guys know all those Info ?

[wild wind]

The.... quest dialogue

[solid otter]

Autism, at least for me

[wild wind]

[zenith jacinth]

by paying attention

[uncut solar]

By eating the text and absorbing information

[solid otter]

And. Ive replayed whispers more than 8 times

[wild wind]

Warframe does something nasty that most games and shows don't do

They show you something once and move on

[dusky acorn]

Information doesn't autismation into existance

[uncut solar]

"Previously in Whispers in the walls"

[wild wind]

without stopping to explain everything, or repeat themselves

[zenith jacinth]

they should start recapping everything 50 times

[solid otter]

Nah but the retention of the information is particularly good because of it

[dusky acorn]

Souls games literally

[wild wind]

Nah Souls is shit about this

Because the story ain't that deep, they just throw a lot of lore at you

Lore =/= story

The story of Dark Souls is you wake up and kill some guys to set yourself on fire

That's the story

[dusky acorn]

They say thing in the lore then doesn't come to it to make it a mystery

[wild wind]

No, again, that's not story

[solid otter]

Lore is the recounting of events happened before you start, story is what you do in the game

[wild wind]

It's also a bad mystery because it's not relevant to anything you actually do

[uncut solar]

Oh my favorite topic

[solid otter]

Eh

[dusky acorn]

Doo Albrecht is still in 1999?

[uncut solar]

I'm going to destroy all of you

[solid otter]

I don't think that makes a bad mystery

[dusky acorn]

Ha ?

[wild wind]

He left and went to Tau

[solid otter]

Games have world building, it doesn't need to be apart of the main story

[dusky acorn]

Where did we know ? Before old peace quest @wild wind

[uncut solar]

Souls games absolutely have a deep narrative, but the story is simple as shit

[wild wind]

He says so at the end of The Hex quest

[solid otter]

We do not know he is on tau, to clarify.

[dusky acorn]

So can drifter travel between dimensions and times ?

[uncut solar]

It's just half the important shit is missed

[solid otter]

People assume he is because he says its in sight

[wild wind]

It also gets brought up in the KIM a few times

[uncut solar]

Because anyone who cares about "lore" doesn't bother to pay attention to the environment

And only reads item descriptions as their job

[solid otter]

Can. I see those kims?

[uncut solar]

[dusky acorn]

What's making Tao this much important ?

[wild wind]

But him mentioning Tau is what pushes Operator to use the memory machine during the Old Peace

[solid otter]

Is it just drifter saying he might be or that hes going to tau, or is it drifter saying he currently is on tau

[solid otter]

Albrecht's interested in tau, has something to do with fighting wally.

[dusky acorn]

Hmmm

Now everything relates to wally ?

[solid otter]

It always has

[uncut solar]

Yes, it was a pretty long winded plan

Orokin managed to start travelling through the void thanks to Wally

[dusky acorn]

How can he fight him while he is outside the spacetime ?

[solid otter]

Thats the neat part, he's not

[dusky acorn]

Or what would happen if he entered throw the portal that entraty made

[solid otter]

The lost fingers force him to obey by our rules

[dusky acorn]

What ?

[dusky acorn]

Wait what how where id

[wild wind]

Lettie: This Tau. This is where the... sentients were sent ¿no? This fake race made by fake gods the orokin 
Drifter: Yeah, but then we never would have met. Or started dating. So... small upside?
Lettie: Jajaja sí Small upside But why? Why is this place so important that it will take you from me some day 
Drifter: I'm not sure.

[solid otter]

The fingers tie wally to the chains of cause and effect, he can't just do things and have no consequences.

[wild wind]

So yeah, Albrecht name drops Tau and the Operator and Lotus start looking for how to get there

[solid otter]

If

[wild wind]

Which leads to the Dark Refractory and The Old Peace quest

[solid otter]

Drifter says if he is headed there, never even says if he is there

[wild wind]

It's almost certain

[solid otter]

Not. Particularly

[dusky acorn]

1where is this
2 why the *** dating ?

[wild wind]

KIM

And because you're dating to trigger the conversation

[solid otter]

Because. Drifter isn't certain either, I wouldn't say Albrecht is at tau definitely, because. Chances are he's not

[wild wind]

Lettie has most of the really good KIMs

Lettie: ¿Cómo qué? ¿Like what?
Drifter: "Merely framed Merely shaped they are called. There was no their mother, there was no their father."
Lettie: ¡¿QUÉ?! WHAT DID YOU JUST SAY?! WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT
Lettie: ¿POR QUÉ? why are creatures from the far future quoting ¿a los PUEBLOS ANTIGUOS? ¿Qué chingados está pasando ahora?
Drifter: Lettie you've lost me again. Back up.
Lettie: AGGHHHH this makes NO SENSE Those words are the words of the ancient people of Chichén Itzá. WHERE DID YOU GET THEM?!
Lettie: THOSE ARE FROM A SACRED TEXT OF LOS PUEBLOS ANTIGUOS "¡¿CÓMO Y POR QUÉ!?"
Drifter: I - I don't - I don't know. I have no clue. I'd only be guessing.
Lettie: I do not drink But if I did now would be the time Aaayyyy this nonsense gets worse and worse every day

[cosmic prawn]

Or we missed him somehow

[solid otter]

How does he even get there?

[wild wind]

Same way he time travels out of 1999

[dusky acorn]

What if he had his fingers

[dusky acorn]

What are kims

[solid otter]

I. Don't think a nuke is gonna push him to tau dawg

[wild wind]

do you think he's dead then

because he's not in 1999 anymore

[uncut solar]

Nuke sends him flying all the way there

[solid otter]

Do you think he's dead on tau then??

[wild wind]

if he's not in 1999 anymore then he can arbitrarily be anywhere he wants

[solid otter]

How do you think he's gonna survive out there

[wild wind]

No, I think he's alive on Tau

[solid otter]

With possibly hostile sentients?

[wild wind]

It was terraformed

[solid otter]

Yeah. And covered in possibly hostile sentients

[wild wind]

And I've been over this, I don't think it is

[solid otter]

That.

[wild wind]

I'm fairly certain descedents of the Anarchs remain

[uncut solar]

Unless Entrati was secretly on their side

[solid otter]

Even worse

[cosmic prawn]

Albrecht clearly has his own thing going on, he's a genius inventor

[solid otter]

Tau isn't a safe space, not by any means. The sentients are gonna be there, we're looking for them

[dusky acorn]

..

[wild wind]

I'm reasonably certain the Tau system's balkanized

[wild wind]

oh, everything dies

Instantly

[solid otter]

Yeah he is, but if Albrecht could've used a nuke to push himself to tau from the start, they would've

[dusky acorn]

Why 🗿 @wild wind

[cosmic prawn]

Well, we're hoping that there's something there. There's been no contact since the Rail was severed.

[dusky acorn]

Do why did it not happen before ?

[wild wind]

he goes back in time and kills your father and mother and grandfather and grandfather's grandmother

[wild wind]

Because he lost the finger

[dusky acorn]

Before he lost them @wild wind

[solid otter]

There's. Pazuul getting visons from the lords of tau or whatever he says

[wild wind]

Because he wasn't in reality?

[solid otter]

But im unsure if that's genuine contact

[dusky acorn]

?

[wild wind]

No I'm very serious, he never escaped the Void

[cosmic prawn]

Pazuul is pretty insane, who knows if those are real visions

[wild wind]

Since he's still in the Void he can't effect reality

[solid otter]

.whuh

[dusky acorn]

What about new war quest when he went out from the portal ? @wild wind

[solid otter]

He absolutely can affect it, he does affect it

[wild wind]

not before the portal opened he couldn't

[fading current]

Ok…but I was just simply asking what your own version of a teshin orowrym would be. Why I included the “what if? Situation” part

Doesn’t have to be exactly what DE would do. With accent changes or whatever. What would YOU like to see for teshins version of the Orowyrm?! Was just a fun convo topic lol

[wild wind]

which is why he didn't assassinate your ultimate grandfather

[dusky acorn]

Why couldn't he before and why can he after

[solid otter]

The game is leading us to believe that he didn't exist before then.

[wild wind]

Void and reality are two separate things. When Albrecht opened the door he could leave, but the door closed on him first

Losing his fingers cost him his godlike power

[dusky acorn]

Brain ain't braining

[wild wind]

he's still more powerful than anything else imaginable, but he's not a god

Because he lost the finger, he has to follow some rules

SOME rules

[solid otter]

Wally existed for a very short time before his fingers got cut off, is what the game wants us to think

[dusky acorn]

What if he went through full ? @wild wind

[wild wind]

Then every dies like I already said

[dusky acorn]

But why is it what he wants to do

[solid otter]

Him being in our world doesn't mean much, conceptual embodiment doesn't particularly like being outside the void regardless

[wild wind]

Because it is his nature

[solid otter]

Wh

[wild wind]

Why does the sun shine?

[dusky acorn]

What does have with concep----@solid otter

[solid otter]

Eh, I wouldn't say its his nature

Noone is created evil

[dusky acorn]

Where did we know 🙂

[wild wind]

why did you murder your parents

[dusky acorn]

Hydrogen

[solid otter]

Because. It produces photons..?

[dusky acorn]

Ha?

[wild wind]

Because it is its nature

[solid otter]

We were forced to kill our parents by wally

[wild wind]

It's a very simple question. Why did you murder your parents?

[dusky acorn]

Why it is where said it is ?

[solid otter]

That. Doesn't make sense

[dusky acorn]

Not in this timeline

[wild wind]

bro. Please. Actually go play the game.

[dusky acorn]

Ah

[wild wind]

If you don't know this not only is it spoilers but your questions are pointless

[dusky acorn]

I was joking

[wild wind]

because the answers won't mean anything

[cosmic prawn]

I feel like the CW theory has been set up more to be debunked than confirmed. Narratively, you would have Roathe spell it all out if he's 100% correct.

[dusky acorn]

Isn't the void that corrupted them not wally ? @wild wind

[solid otter]

Its not just roathe whos saying it

[dusky acorn]

What's cw

[wild wind]

You're absolutely right but that's cheating.

[solid otter]

Its.. more than roathe, sythel says it, Albrecht implies it, the operator report also implies it

[wild wind]

The correct answer is that Roathe is wrong because he's Orokin and the Orokin are wrong about everything.

[solid otter]

It would. Be pretty pointless to go over 3 years for it to be fake

[dusky acorn]

What's this ?

[wild wind]

Eh, "the Lotus betrayed you" lasted four

[solid otter]

Hell, almost 6 years if we count the requiem logs

[cosmic prawn]

None of those people are actual authorities, and Albrechts ego would very much like it being all his fault, rather than mostly

[solid otter]

She. Fundamentally did though.

[dusky acorn]

@solid otter @wild wind What's this theory you are talking about

[wild wind]

Wally almost certainly existed before Albrecht, Wally just borrowed his face

[solid otter]

God im not dealing with this.

[wild wind]

No, Ballas mind whammied her

[solid otter]

This is genuinely mind numbing.

[wild wind]

you can see Erra and him gaslighting her in the Prelude to War

[obtuse gyro]

eh, I am highly doubtful of that "almost certainty"

in fact, I am deeply uncertain that wally existed before albrecht face planted in the void

[obtuse gyro]

CW? or CE?

[dusky acorn]

How did Albrecht opened a portal to the void ? Like if it's another dimension or exist how was he possibly able to

[zenith jacinth]

conceptual wumbo

[obtuse gyro]

same way all mad scientist manage shit, they just made the tech to do it

[wild wind]

Comic book science

[solid otter]

No clue how he did it, he just did. Tore a hole in the fabric of the reality

[cosmic prawn]

CE, was a typo

[dusky acorn]

🗿

[obtuse gyro]

go me thinking who the hell was Calbrecht Wentrati

[dusky acorn]

I started reverse not understandingwhzt the void really is

Can someone rexplaing?

[cosmic prawn]

How is unknown, because DE isn't writing a fictional science on interdimensional gateways,

[dusky acorn]

What's cw

[solid otter]

Imagine the universe as a blanket
Imagine the void as the mattress under that blanket

[untold river]

The Sacrifice explains it quite well, its like a celestial scale of the soul with the universe as the body.

[cosmic prawn]

But the Void was a known quantity as if Albrechts experiments, so the Orokin science was advanced enough for it

[obtuse gyro]

CE, Conceptual Embodiment. Where Thought+ Strong Emotion+ Void is able to manifest into being

[wild wind]

tbf their initial understanding was that the Void was "absolutely nothing"

[obtuse gyro]

a known quantity of "absolutely nothing in it"

and then skippy over here falls on his face

[wild wind]

Pure machines can't interact with it or see anything there

[solid otter]

Whyh

[untold river]

No soul or true emotion.

[dusky acorn]

Mean about cw

[solid otter]

No? Albrecht sends machine in prior doesn't he? He also has monitoring on the seriglass bell the cavia were sent it, albeit it broke some time in

[zenith jacinth]

that was a typo

[obtuse gyro]

No such thing as CW, that was a typo

[dusky acorn]

Why

[wild wind]

As mentioned, the Void needs something in you to perceive something there

[zenith jacinth]

how can you reply to a message saying that was a typo, ask what it is and not put 1 and 0 together

[obtuse gyro]

aint there a whole host of tech meant to interface with the void lol

[wild wind]

Cephalon Cy waxes poetic about how much nothing is there

[solid otter]

Yes.

[wild wind]

most of it is organic

[solid otter]

We. Literally see one of the biggest examples

The heart. The heart is right there

[dusky acorn]

Waait so what if wally is the ce of evilness and Albrecht's fear ?

[wild wind]

The Lotus revealing she's seen Wally is a huge deal

[obtuse gyro]

Organic?

[dusky acorn]

._.

[wild wind]

As much as the trees I bet

[solid otter]

Stone and metal

[obtuse gyro]

its distinctly labeled as a synthetic material

[zenith jacinth]

that rocks

[solid otter]

And. Tech

[dusky acorn]

Where and why

[wild wind]

Synthetic has multiple meanings!

[solid otter]

That doesn't mean its biological

[dusky acorn]

Why can't machines interfere or see the void ?

[solid otter]

They can.

[obtuse gyro]

as per the secretion list, its very clear what kind of synthetic the lanthorns are

[wild wind]

Also those don't interact with the Void, they interact with other machines

[dusky acorn]

How did lotus get void power ?

[wild wind]

Never explained outright

[obtuse gyro]

she aint got nun

[dusky acorn]

New war ?

[wild wind]

But she did see Wally

[dusky acorn]

Where was it stated

[wild wind]

bro

[obtuse gyro]

She threw up shields, everyone and their mother in this universe can throw up shields

[wild wind]

please look something up on your own after this

[cerulean kiln]

https://tenor.com/view/the-man-in-wall-warframe-gif-24269482

[dusky acorn]

Didn't u before said that she didn't see him or was something other in the chat ? @cerulean kiln

I asked here after I finished it and someone said that she said that she didn't see him

[wild wind]

https://wiki.warframe.com/images/DRopaTennoAbil0360Natah_en.ogg?fb3e5

she straight up says so

[cerulean kiln]

I’ve only ever said she tries to say she didn’t

[solid otter]

the heart

[wild wind]

But yes, she's seen Wally, and in The New War she pretends she didn't

[cerulean kiln]

She dodges the question in New War

[obtuse gyro]

Also lua's systems to keep lua in the void... before we break it

[dusky acorn]

Why

[solid otter]

Mhm

[wild wind]

I would absolutely bet there are organic components there

Like the eye and the ear

[solid otter]

And. Whatever monitoring Albrecht used for the cavia

"After the monitors failed, Albrecht wondered how you all came to be exposed to that degree. Fibonacci?"

[solid otter]

Those aren't. Organic are they?

[wild wind]

They are

[cerulean kiln]

Lotus also didn’t even believe in Wally seeing it as just in our head

[dusky acorn]

Where does she dodge it ? And do we know why she pretends she didn't see it

[solid otter]

You can't just claim that all this tech is organic based on the unfounded belief that it cannot interact with the void unless its biological

Where is it even mentioned it won't interact with the void unless its organic?

[wild wind]

Cephalon Cy, Lotus originally

[solid otter]

Can. You get those quotes

[wild wind]

my friend are you serious

[solid otter]

Yeah dead serious

[cerulean kiln]

What did you see?

Nothing

[solid otter]

I can just say that the lotus says the opposite

[cerulean kiln]

End of New War

[solid otter]

And my word has just as much weight as yours

[wild wind]

https://wiki.warframe.com/images/DSarcKeyMission4870RJCephalon_en.ogg?20709

https://wiki.warframe.com/images/DSarcKeyMission4880RJCephalon_en.ogg?0c36a

This was INCREDIBLY famous

[solid otter]

Why are you linking the audio file???

[wild wind]

so you can listen to it?

[solid otter]

I can read it.

And i can't currently play audio! Im outside doing stuff!

[obtuse gyro]

cy says he perceives nothing there, but lotus? lotus says outright shes seen the walls other face waaaaay before she goes into temporary denial in TNW

[wild wind]

Then why are you on Discord lol

[obtuse gyro]

but also like, the critical flaw here is using cy as a foundation to claim all pure tech cannot interact with the void is that you errantly presume that whatever is limiting cephalons like cy applies to all other machinery

[wild wind]

The Man in The Wall: "You mad at me, kiddo? Did you forget? You owe me."

Cy: "Where the negative resides my mind is dissonance. All I know is... Lua. Will you go?" ```

[solid otter]

We can argue that cy is biological as well

[obtuse gyro]

When we have so much void-based machinery doing all the gobbledegook with the void

[solid otter]

He is just a cephalon, who. Come from a biological source, we don't know what happens to the brain during the cephalization process, but I wouldn't be super shocked if there was still some biological component

[wild wind]

The brains are all glassed is the thing

[obtuse gyro]

The whole of the Zariman has just one "organic" object

[wild wind]

tbf that's the one thing that needed to interact with the Void

[obtuse gyro]

and "organic" is tenuous at best when its the void source itself

[solid otter]

The duviri citizens aren't biological and Sythel sees wally lol

Wally is physically there actually, hello vagabond

[wild wind]

Point of order, they're creations of Void

Void interacts with Void

[cerulean kiln]

Hello, Rusalka

[zenith jacinth]

"vagrant"

[solid otter]

Anyways. Nemesis or Bau can you write what those quotes say or

[wild wind]

....I literally did lol

[cerulean kiln]

Which quotes?

[solid otter]

Please and thankyous

[obtuse gyro]

^ its just this

[solid otter]

^

[wild wind]

Warframe players and reading

[cerulean kiln]

The Man in The Wall: "You mad at me, kiddo? Did you forget? You owe me."

Cy: "Where the negative resides my mind is dissonance. All I know is... Lua. Will you go?" ```

[dusky acorn]

@cerulean kiln Wt ?

[solid otter]

How do these prove that cy is incapable of interacting with the void what 😭

[obtuse gyro]

Anyways, the biggest stickler here is that Lotus, who is effectively a "pure machine" did see wally for a good while now

[obtuse gyro]

the idea here is that the void isnt returning a proper result when cy looks at it, but very evidently, cy is able to work around it

its like those tropes where you smack an "invisible" person because you detect the gap

[solid otter]

Hm

[wild wind]

Pure machine except for whatever bits of Margulis's soul she has, because she has memories in her that Ballas could not have put in her

But I recognize that is an actual conspiracy theory

[solid otter]

I. Guess yeah

[obtuse gyro]

um

a soul is not an organic component

[wild wind]

I'm aware

[solid otter]

Soul is a concept that doesn't even apply to a lot of people

[wild wind]

As I said, conspiracy theory

[obtuse gyro]

but also, which memories would ballas have been unable to put into natah

[wild wind]

Being evaporated by the jade light

She mentions remembering it when she's standing outside the labs

[obtuse gyro]

Ballas was right there

[wild wind]

He wouldn't have Margulis's memories of it

Lotus does

[obtuse gyro]

Wouldnt be too out of the park for him to be able to recreate it since he was also there

[obtuse gyro]

also where was this?

[wild wind]

???? when she's standing outside the labs

[obtuse gyro]

oh the sanctum labs

[wild wind]

yeah

[wild wind]

see my issue with this is that we see what happens when Ballas wants to use Margulis's name and memories

he can't help but big himself up in Old Peace even when it'd hurt his cause

[solid otter]

???

[wild wind]

If he wasn't scamming actual children his entire plot to restart the war would have failed because the Operator phoned Margulis

[obtuse gyro]

ok now we go back to here lmao, which quote are you talking about

[wild wind]

Lotus: "I will not let It devour one instant of my pain. Not even Ballas. Not even the Jade Light."

[obtuse gyro]

because theres a single one referring to the Jade Light, and I fail to see how it precludes being added to margulis

especially since we know the orokin to have methods/devices that allow for some persistence after physical death as per the goober who got gibbed by ordan

[wild wind]

She's saying she's not letting Wally take any of her memories, including what Ballas did to her, or her memory of being executed

[solid otter]

So, the lotus is a machine, the idea of a soul isn't proven and is predominantly a spiritual belief

And. I do not think that'll make it so she can interact with the void or wally lol

The idea that all these machines can interact with the void because they're secretly biological seems silly

I feel like the game would've. Mentioned that before

[obtuse gyro]

Oh heres another machine:
Atomi-cycles

[solid otter]

Yuppers

[obtuse gyro]

We have too many characters who work on their atomis, so the presence of an organic component in a void powered bike wouldnt have gone unnoticed

[solid otter]

Woe

[tight pagoda]

I wonder how fast Tommies go in km/h

Or MPH if you're on the imperial system

[solid otter]

Fast. Stupidly fast.

An unmodified atomicycle is already debatably street legal

[tight pagoda]

I eyeballed the size of the wheels but jeepers

Wait radius is the middle

[solid otter]

lol

[tight pagoda]

Okay it's still 471km/h

[solid otter]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_n7ru1e-rg

this goober is comparable, iirc it has 230hp

[tight pagoda]

Wow, and this one can't even flip

[solid otter]

its also dependant on weight iirc

[zenith jacinth]

hey, all bikes can flip at least once

[undone lodge]

I mean it’s not like they’d need to do it in a way that reveals anything

You get dropped off into the Necralisk, so even that Latrox guy wouldn’t see, and then the Family just need to be let in on not discussing it

[undone lodge]

Wouldn’t that make it the “layer” around the core? The “mantle” of Duviri

[runic latch]

So I brought this up before, but I kinda wanna bring it up again, as I still think about it from time-to-time.

There's this interpretation of the Lotus being plural, based on the sequence towards the end of The New War where she speaks about "There are... voices..." and asking us to choose between the different Lotus skins.

I know that whole thing is likely just a way of making "you can now choose how the Lotus appears during missions" an in-universe thing... but I can't stop reading it as like, we're helping the Lotus decide who is fronting.

It helps that each choice puts a different background to why she continues to help us - Natah through decisiveness and power, Lotus through compassion and strength, and Margulis through healing. They all mean well, but they show it in different ways - which feels similar to me to interacting with different system members.

Idk, I'm just kinda throwing this out there.

[zenith jacinth]

That's... not even an interpretation that's literally what's going on

[uncut solar]

Hunhow was calling to Natah at some point

Ballas was calling to Margulis to control her

[zenith jacinth]

Except that lotus is the one choosing

[runic latch]

I'm... not sure I understand what you're saying?

[zenith jacinth]

Lotus is choosing which voice leads the others

[uncut solar]

Scrap agrees just not with the "asking us"

It's her making a choice

But it's given to us as a player

[runic latch]

Oh wait I forgot
Even though the choice shows up, that's not our Operator choosing
My bad

[zenith jacinth]

Hence the choice prompt being
"I am..."
Natah
The lotus
Margulis

[uncut solar]

But yeah the way you interpret it seems very much valid

[zenith jacinth]

It's very missable

[uncut solar]

Shes a sentient designed with mimicry in mind, having multiple "fronts" is literally the way she was made probably

[runic latch]

Yeah
I think it's mostly just justification for "you can use different Lotus skins now"
But it still definitely comes off as plurality-related
And I wouldn't be surprised if it came up later

[runic latch]

I have never thought of that before
Interesting

[zenith jacinth]

It's half one half the other

Dying and coming back woke up the other personalities

[uncut solar]

Yeah she went through all 3 of them at some point in time

Getting revived brought it all back up

Before that we can clearly see Hunhow trying to reach out to Natah as well

[runic latch]

ngl I just thought they were using different names because that's just how they knew her

Though admittedly, that doesn't stop plurality from being the cause of how they know her that way

[uncut solar]

Her behavior clearly changes so

She's quite literally designed to be a mimic

[runic latch]

Okay so
I'm not sure I understand the point about her being a mimic?

(I've cleared all quests, so don't worry about spoiling me - I might just be forgetting something)

[zenith jacinth]

She's the mimic queen, the mimics we fight are her fragments

[uncut solar]

That there's intended capacity for multiple personalities

[runic latch]

wait where does that come up?

[zenith jacinth]

Multiple times starting in sacrifice

[runic latch]

Elaborate? Still not sure I understand what's being pointed at

[uncut solar]

Are you talking to me or

[solid otter]

Tbh the lotus being plural isn't a crazy thing to think, multiple things can be true, especially when it comes to interpretation

[runic latch]

To Scrap

[uncut solar]

Ah

[zenith jacinth]

Ugh it's hard to type when my body decides that a slight decrease in temp justifies shivering like I'm dying of hypothermia

[solid otter]

Voice to text :)

[zenith jacinth]

Wdym

[solid otter]

You gotta get the actual quote scrap

[zenith jacinth]

That'd be worse

[runic latch]

Well you say she's the mimic queen
But I genuinely don't remember any instances of her being implied to be a "Mimic Queen"

[solid otter]

Oh she is one, im not sure on the fragments part though

Lemme find it for you uhhh

[runic latch]

Hold on lemme
Refresh myself on The Sacrifice
to the wiki!

[zenith jacinth]

Do I have to go fight my phone's crappy internet

[uncut solar]

She's called a queen

[zenith jacinth]

Not wiki, use orokin archives

[uncut solar]

She's called a mimic

But never both at once

Queen of the aphids is the only other title

[zenith jacinth]

I've delayed enough that I doubt it's worth opening google now

[runic latch]

Okay I'm still confused
There must be some dialogue or scene I'm not remembering that points to this

[zenith jacinth]

Dangiz

[solid otter]

Yeah the mimics just exist in the sacrifice

[solid otter]

This could just be in reference to us, the tenno

[runic latch]

Like my memory of stuff back towards The Sacrifice isn't that great
But I still feel like I'd recognize this

[uncut solar]

Yeah I can't reference anything

[solid otter]

Nah, I ran through the transcript, didn't see nothin

[uncut solar]

Queen, mimic, all separate

[flat tree]

Who were controlling the mimics on Lua anyway?

And even controlling them now?

[runic latch]

Good question

[solid otter]

No clue

[uncut solar]

Me

[solid otter]

We can just go. Ludonarrative dissonance or smthn

[solid otter]

https://tenor.com/view/hiii-cat-wave-cat-wave-hi-gif-174708314057938083

[uncut solar]

Secret extra sentient

[runic latch]

Wow, you must be busy playing every Mimic on every player's game at once

[uncut solar]

At the depths of lua

[flat tree]

But it does seem Ballas has some control over the sentients like how Hunhow does.

[solid otter]

Its probably the same sorta deal that. Dax and grineer have

[zenith jacinth]

Natah is a mimic
The mimic enemies are fragments
The mimic enemies only start showing up after ballas takes over natah

[solid otter]

Counter point, they continue to appear even after natah isnt there

On murexes apparently

[uncut solar]

Counter counter point, Poopapolyst dialogue exists

[runic latch]

(side note: thanks wiki for the stats)

[zenith jacinth]

Spare fragments that got taken by nondescript other hive mind

[solid otter]

NaN...

NaN%...

[uncut solar]

Some missions are just frozen in time

[flat tree]

Conjunction Survival tho?

[solid otter]

NaN++

[zenith jacinth]

Naan

[runic latch]

I don't think those are specifically Mimics tho

[flat tree]

In terms of what sentient hive mind is controlling them since it takes place after Ballas dies

[runic latch]

yeah not mimics

[zenith jacinth]

Conjunction specifically doesn't have mimics :D

[solid otter]

They're oculysts aren't they?

[runic latch]

I think you missed what conversation tree I was replying to :p

[flat tree]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1407110500034150501/1474253177510432878/image0.gif

[zenith jacinth]

And aside from like. Hyper rare spawns mimics don't really show up after tnw

[flat tree]

oof

[runic latch]

Honestly though
Seeing as the Mimics only appear during story missions where the Lotus is taken by Ballas
I think I can understand the implication of her controlling the Mimics

Wait

[wise basalt]

Mimics do show up in another place post TNW, though... it might more on a technicality.

Descendia.

[runic latch]

Descendia is memories of the past though, back when the Orokin Empire was still a thing
So it doesn't exactly help us here

[runic latch]

Also it seems I misread the wiki

can later be found on the Murex which occasionally appears in Veil Proxima.

[zenith jacinth]

Descendia isn't even memories it's roach's mindscape

[runic latch]

So uhh
Nevermind on "only appears during story missions"

[solid otter]

Its both

They feature aspects of our, Marie's, Lyon's and Roathe's memories

[zenith jacinth]

It's like 1 in 10 missions has maybe 1 mimic at most really

[solid otter]

Still

[runic latch]

Hmm

[solid otter]

Its there, amount doesn't matter

[zenith jacinth]

It kinda does

[solid otter]

Eh

I don't see how it does here

[zenith jacinth]

They're so rare that it seems very likely to be individual rogue fragments

I don't even feel cold why am I still shivering

[solid otter]

Are. You just saying that or do you have the actual spawn rates

[zenith jacinth]

Estimating based on my experience running veil anomaly missions

I've seen like. 2 mimics in the 36 missions I've done

[solid otter]

So, not actual rates

Or. Alternatively, they did their job and hid themselves and you didn't notice