spoiler-chat

[royal grove]

I just told her i love her

[solid otter]

Marie is well written

[balmy storm]

Yeah nothing states Sol nuns don’t exist, just the details for Lua nuns which are different lol

[solid otter]

I do concede there. But it certainly was a choice.

[zenith jacinth]

yes, let's ignore context...

[loud dock]

i dont think i dislike any of them either

[royal grove]

My entire goal was to get three kids with Marie and a cockroach named BallAss

[zenith jacinth]

profile checks out.

[hallow wharf]

No way🔥🔥

[balmy storm]

Why not a cockroache?

[dark whale]

I love the triad, it's definitely my favourite group of protoframes so far, I'm absolutely obsessed with Roathe, but of course some things could've been done better

[loud dock]

like; they're all well written to me but i think the update definitely suffered crunch because i think they were all supposed to be as dynamic as roathe but also
please dont make me forgive abusers to "redeem" roathe holy shit

[solid otter]

Except Sol is the same? Only being portrayed by masculine figures? Even the pronouns for the celestial figures align with it

[dark whale]

I love these bugged notes because I also have this and then on Marie I have literally just an empty black box

[dark whale]

YEAH LMAO

[royal grove]

Oh shit to romance roathe u need to play more descendia

[covert dune]

No like I mean she went "You care about me? Oh so you only pretended to care about what I was saying to get close to me" out of nowhere. I mean Freakzen also went "Yeah partially" but besides that it's strange

[loud dock]

SAME

[dark whale]

Marie and I are:

[loud dock]

yeah i've definitely got some bugs too because i think the counters are a little broken

[covert dune]

Lol

[dark whale]

Worth it, his trauma logs are insane, the voice actor had bills to pay lmao

[balmy storm]

Okay? You’re doing a lot of assuming about this made up religion, that men can’t what, worship Lua? That women can’t worship Sol? I’m not really sure what the argument here is beyond an assumption based on what we knew that clearly isn’t correct given what we now have
A Nun of Sol

[hallow wharf]

Also on Roathe's box saying he'd romance me if I asked? Don't think I've been insanely super nice to him😭

[solid otter]

There's been a boolean activate somewhere. Go check the kimulacrum for that conversation to see what it could be

[dark whale]

Bugged notes
He wants everybody now apparently

[balmy storm]

Her existence is enough to tell me their religion wasn’t as binary as you imply

[pure merlin]

Is your note for Roathe after today's chat still the same as you showed earlier ?

[hallow wharf]

Lore accurate ig

[quick smelt]

||To other Orokin it is||

[royal grove]

The straight path is closed now the gay one is open

[covert dune]

Isn't Kimulacrum closed?

[hallow wharf]

Immortality makes you bored or sumn🔥🔥

[solid otter]

Considering it is contradicted in the very church they reside in, yeah. Ima go off what we know. Marie doesn't count as she is the point of criticism.

[loud dock]

mm? no its still active you just gotta look at the full svg chart for ones that aren't documented yet

[dark whale]

I didn't play today's chats yet as the reset happens in the middle of the night for me and I'm off the pc
And I don't think I will play it considering I really want him redeemed

[solid otter]

Been open since the 14th iirc

[covert dune]

Dang it, been playing without it all this time. Thought it was closed

[zenith jacinth]

kimulacrum was down for like a day or two

[loud dock]

man like i've been playing it blind for the most part and only checking it after

[pure merlin]

Right yeah, I forgot you said that, mb

[loud dock]

but im still kinda like "wrow" at "idk man im feeling vengeful as a hella abuse victim being conditioned to do that" = ~eeevill~

like what y'all tryin to say with that

[balmy storm]

I don’t really see how those are contradictions?
They just depict it being a certain way, not that it must always be that way
We don’t know their rules nor have their full bible, this argument doesn’t make sense when she’s standing right there and DE made the conscious decision to have her there

We also don’t know the history of this religion, how it may or may not have changed in 100 years

[zenith jacinth]

the writer's poorly disguised preferences

[balmy storm]

Your argument relies on an assumption that goes out the window cause Marie exists.

[dark whale]

all good :) maybe i will try out the convo and if it bugs out for me I'll just close it so it resets lmao

[covert dune]

What is the "Thermostat" counter?

[pure merlin]

Probably on the basis that "forgiving" his abusers is considered the good choice, and not forgiving pushes him to want "vengeance" so therefore it's bad. Although you can decide to not forgive someone that wronged you and still not go for their throat

[zenith jacinth]

positive good end, negative bad end

[dark whale]

Roathe redemption meter basically
X>6 if you want him redeemed

[covert dune]

How do I know how much Thermostat I have?

[zenith jacinth]

I'm still doubtful that marie being a nun of sol wasn't a thing they came up with after making her...

[pure merlin]

Mind sending me your notes if you do try and it doesn't bug? i'd like to compare it to mine maybe to see if it's the same

[zenith jacinth]

you don't

[dark whale]

You don't by default
Gotta count it yourself by comparing convos with flowcharts

[dark whale]

Sure thing!

You'll have to add me though :)

[covert dune]

Dangit, thank you

[loud dock]

i mean probably the intention but not the result of how at the end of the day this is still limited choices
imho; don't black-and-white a literal RAMCOA victim
that's my tea
literally

like the moment that roathe talked about his own academy life its
it's something

[pure merlin]

No I mean I get you, I think some conversations shouldn't push him to be immediatly evil when you're helping him get through something
That's just pushing for failure with his chats

[balmy storm]

I think it went out the window the moment they had her be Wisp
Also a Nun of Sol can totally be a thing, nothing actually says they don’t exist

[loud dock]

(and its not that much of a stretch to view what dude went through either as something parallel to ritualized abuse given that he was hazed; beaten bloodied, to the point that he was given a new body as a child)

[zenith jacinth]

yes, you repeat it enough, I understand your point, I just can't trust that DE doesn't have other logic behind protos at this point

[mental echo]

Repeating a point isn’t a bad thing

Besides I feel as though making wisp which is already very tied to sol and mysticality makes sense to like make a nun based off dat

[solid otter]

Marie is rhe contradiction, so when the concept is under scrutiny, she isn't counted as she is the catalyst.

[fiery turret]

Marie got REALLY mad at me so I had to commit,I want it to be perfect

[loud dock]

(for the source on that btw)

got given a yuvan
while he was still basically a kid himself

[zenith jacinth]

my argument is that they made her a nun of sol after making big booty nun a thing

[mental echo]

??? Ok I feel like that’s just very presumptuous

[solid otter]

Not really

Its very inline with DE.

Love them to death, but they are like that.

[zenith jacinth]

DE has a track record of dubious decisions

-# especially since rebb took over

[solid otter]

This entire update was full of it

[rain otter]

I still think this is like the worst opinion.

Is somehow warframe Is worse after Reb took over.

[mental echo]

I feel like that’s a very jaded perspective of how de operates when we don’t really have a vibe before especially since wisp could very easily be a nun of sol

[zenith jacinth]

I know, in your mind warframe and DE are perfect and flawless

[rain otter]

Not true.

[fiery turret]

It's still a fun game,no matter how much cheeks size they crank up

[mental echo]

Dude why the aggression

[loud dock]

i like the triad but i will be slapping my little headcanon hands all over them

[rain otter]

It's just Zariman to me is like the best Update they have done gameplay wise.

[loud dock]

if the game has weird handling of things i will simply make fancontent 🥰 fighting abuse with teeth isnt evil

[zenith jacinth]

annoyance at complete disregarding of bad choices because game good

[mental echo]

But these aren’t objective “bad choices” these are subjective opinions that a choice is bad

People can differ in opinion

[rain otter]

We disagree about what we think are bad choices. Also warframe isn't perfect to me like the liches that aren't coda suck and should be changed and such

[quick smelt]

Honestly the Liches and Sisters should have an update to be more like the Coda

Would make them much more enjoyable

[zenith jacinth]

I don't know, "it's not cheating because it's time travel" is pretty objectively bad

[mental echo]

No I agree with you on that

I feel like that’s a pretty normal thing to agree on but to say that they designed Marie with the intent of “sexy nun” is only based on the community sexualizing wisp

[loud dock]

oh don't get me started on that
ogh don't get me even started....
also its not healthy polyamory if you only tell your partner AFTER the fact

[zenith jacinth]

DE has a track record of going "behold, big butt"

[quick smelt]

Inb4 DE does the Witcher 3 thing and both dump you in a cutscene to completely catch us off guard

[mental echo]

Human form be the human form

If people sexualize bodies that’s on them ig

[zenith jacinth]

I get that I'm pessimistically critical, but I have reason to be

[mental echo]

In a game where people are turned to steel flesh suits I feel like it keeping to the form of the human body is fairly normal, oh no a person has a butt or breasts or oh no they give a masculine warframe a codpiece I have bigger things to worry about in the game like how slow the start of the game is for many people

[solid otter]

This is so real

[quick smelt]

Helminth has a particular taste in men and women, I see now.

[solid otter]

They listen to the community btw.

Guess who designs the heirlooms?

[mental echo]

Yeah I’m aware

[zenith jacinth]

sure. you're right. I'm wrong.
not worth arguing.

[solid otter]

... so do you honestly think. That they made Marie in good conscience.

[mental echo]

No one is saying it like that? You don’t need to be aggressive like that

[solid otter]

Ehhh

[mental echo]

Idk I feel like her design is fine and I frankly just see her as a nun in a mystical religion so

[solid otter]

Based on a real one that shares real terminology and beliefs.

Sure.

I lowkey hate the "it's fiction" excuse

[quick smelt]

I think DE is slowly realizing the game is rated M and are using that to their fullest power

For peak stuff like dark things and for the
Well

[zenith jacinth]

it tends to sound like it though

[solid otter]

Except its not? Not everywhere

Why do people always think that its M everywhere

Here in Australia, its only 15+

[quick smelt]

Oh they have different ratings?

[solid otter]

Yeah

[quick smelt]

Intriguing

[loud dock]

i almost feel like if they broke the mold of having protoframes in their default animkits with marie it'd be better

[solid otter]

Everywhere does 😭

[loud dock]

i feel that dante's animations would've worked on her like; really well actually?

also for parallels given how dante's also interwoven in albrect's history?

[solid otter]

Marie literally has her own animation BUT WE DONT GET TO USE JT

[solid otter]

The proper rating name of it here is MA-15+

Mature adult - 15 years of age

If it was 18+, it would be labelled R18+

[quick smelt]

In my opinion
They could of picked different protoframe types or so

I can see Harrow because yeah, base Harrow is VERY priest vibes.
But Wisp? Base Wisp didn’t feel very nun-like. She felt more like a ghost or a witch, especially with her one skin being an actual witch.

[solid otter]

LITERALLY

This is so true.

Xata nuke

Equinox... equinox is there my guys..

[quick smelt]

Uriel and Harrow fit the vibes
A devil and a prie-

YES
YES EQUINOX

[solid otter]

We wouldn't even particularly need harrow if we used equinox

[loud dock]

EQUINOX WOULD'VE BEEN SO GOOD GIVEN HOW HER DUALITY SEEMS TO BE AT ODDS WITH HERSELF
she's proud of how cunning and spiteful she is but also knows it causes harm

like she is a VICIOUS lil thing in reality

[valid folio]

Has anyone managed to romance Marie?

[loud dock]

thats kinda why her and roathe got at it so much they're actually - not .... that dissimilar of people //cough

[hallow wharf]

I had a dude try to sell me the Vome requiem for 30 the other day😔✌️

[quick smelt]

It’s just weird vibes at times with their Protoframe selection

Nova for time traveling stuff was weird because I never saw Nova as the “time traveler”.

That feels more like something a Limbo Protoframe would be trying, which would make much more sense then when Drifter goes “Hey be Veeeery careful trying to time travel.”

“Last time a Limbo tried to do any significant jump of sorts, I had to gather his pieces around three different planets.”

[solid otter]

Limbo proto but its Loid

Please if there is a limbo proto let it be loid

Let me wear loid as a skin suits DE PLEASE

I can see it. I can see it happening

Ill explain how

Loid goes upstairs to the family OH NO he gets infested. Guess what he does cus he knows Albrecht did it to others and it worked. PROTO INJECTION.

FISH.

https://tenor.com/view/fish-gas-station-you-know-what-that-means-gif-1113666392679473186

[quick smelt]

Look
If DE ever does more Protoframes
Please make the nerd group at some point DE
Dante, Limbo, Lavos, Vauban/Protea

[solid otter]

Even moreso now that he's on the kim system

[hallow wharf]

This radiates Otak and I can't understand why.

[solid otter]

CHIP :D

[hallow wharf]

Be great! Do great things!

[quick smelt]

Just
The Math nerd
The History nerd
The Chemistry nerd
The Engineer nerd

All working together to make something

Loid being the Limbo Proto would be funny because Loid is intelligent so it’d fit the nerd group vibe

[pure merlin]

We have a goth nun can we have a king Inaros protoframe in medieval times/egyptian times

[solid otter]

Loid even looks like limbo prime

[quick smelt]

Loid popping in to drop the zestiest time stop known to humanity

[solid otter]

Jojo pose or something

[quick smelt]

Looking back at it
I really do wish they gave the protoframes their own type of idles

[tame canopy]

https://wiki.warframe.com/images/ArthurRank3Convo6.png?05452

[solid otter]

Marie has her idle in the cathedral

[tame canopy]

Today I found out that the arthur kaithe dialogue all ends in us trauma dumping (well, except for the options when we say nothing)

Drifter's really nonchalant with their trauma lol

[solid otter]

Oh I mean

[tame canopy]

makes sense but boy does that make the space trauma moniker apt

[solid otter]

Once you kinda heal from it, that happens

[tame canopy]

Idk if it's healing so much as being desentizied

[solid otter]

That is actually apart of a model of therapy

[tame canopy]

but regardless poor arthur got to feel what Quincy did when we tell him about stuff like ayatan sculpture

[tame canopy]

It is??

[solid otter]

Mhm. Trauma based therapy often will have you reliving trauma, not until you become numb, but until you can manage it yourself by the tools your therapist will give to you :)

You can't really get rid of the trauma response, but you can manage it

[quick smelt]

“Man, I remember the time I learned how to do this.”
“Really?”
“Yeah, took about 100 times to get it right to where I at least didn’t snap my neck when I fell off.”
“…Wait what?…”

[solid otter]

Which is where the whole take a few deep breath shit comes from. Its a grounding exercise to keep yourself from getting too upped and heightened :)

[valid folio]

Has anyone managed yet to romance Marie, just want to know whether I'm behind or not?

[loud dock]

......broooo
okay no now i know why roathe somehow is villian route
what do you mEAN all three of them add to the thermostat counter

like what??????
why do ALL THREE of them count towards if roathe is "redeemed" or not i was going through shit like they're all unique people bECAUSE THEY ARE?

or at least are SUPPOSED to be????

[night zephyr]

Wait so is there a villain lock bug or was it just you

[loud dock]

no im looking at the kimulacrum
all of them; have additions or subtractions to the thermostat
its not distinct for each one of them
its interwoven

[balmy storm]

Contradiction for info that we don’t solidly know anything about beyond Lua specifically had nuns and it seems there is a binary rule

[loud dock]

which is whack to me because the thermostat specifically affects roathe.

[night zephyr]

I was not aware of the "thermostat" thing cause nothing shows up in game, is that an internal counter that shows up in kimulacrum?

[loud dock]

internal counter, yep

[night zephyr]

That's interesting

[balmy storm]

It’s not even a thing that’s brought up, thus I doubt it’s a contradiction lol

[loud dock]

so you have to carefully play the field with all three of them to make roathe "redeemed" fully but
ugh, no, actually that sucks

[night zephyr]

Interesting

[loud dock]

like that's too "views of the many affect the few"

[night zephyr]

Well hopefully I made enough right choices that he's not going to go the villain route lol

I think there is still a bug though according to a couple other users from earlier

I would assume they played the thermostat right

[balmy storm]

And to expand on this a bit further
Other nuns exist! Nor is it stated anywhere afaik what kind of Nun Marie is!

[night zephyr]

It's probably just better to wait no matter how much I want to max them

[reef rampart]

Wait... Walle can appear on the backrooms?

[balmy storm]

If you have the chair, yes

[reef rampart]

What chair? Did velimir sell me a cursed chair? God damnit, not again.

[balmy storm]

It’s the same type of chair that he appears in during the Hex quest

[thick jolt]

And which reportedly haunted the development of the quest lol

[celest hollow]

how so?

[thick jolt]

The devs mentioned on social media about chair related bugs that were being particularly hard to nail down back close to launch

[balmy storm]

Same chair as Amir’s which I believe was the actual one that caused issues

[thick jolt]

Makes sense

But anyway devs made a haunted chair because the chair haunted them

[celest hollow]

hmm of all things that could be buggy

didn't think it'd be a chair

[neat eagle]

Anyone else get really giddy at amirs relationship voice lines

[mossy axle]

How do I make my warframes last longer in circuit? e_e

[tribal stream]

Typo spotted

[worn fjord]

Wait is the redemption route also bugged??

I’m confused, any Roathe lovers able to confirm this?

I really want the redemption route and don’t want to reset sighhh

[night zephyr]

A couple of people here including @dark whale have reported that it is bugged, yes

Is it ok to play as normal though as long as you don't engage the KIM chat? I've never exited out of one that wasn't bugged as in it wouldn't progress

Roathe gave me his last voice message yesterday and I got the honoria for it, so I fear the next chat will be a forced villain one, if that's the case I'll prob have to reset

[worn fjord]

So far I’m at Trusted with him and did all 21 stories …

Because he asked sigh

[night zephyr]

So you are in the same position as me I guess. I'm not sure what conversation is next so I wouldn't be able to gauge if I got locked into a bad route, so I don't want to risk it

Unless altF4 works lol

[worn fjord]

Did any text come up for you today?

[night zephyr]

I haven't logged on yet, was planning to

[worn fjord]

I just got the VMs (because of that the chats arrive the next day instead)

[worn fjord]

Let me know the starting words of the chat you get, you don’t have to click open the chat

[night zephyr]

The way the voice messages spawned for me was I did the descendia all the way, then it seemed to be 2 per day and based on the relationship level

[night zephyr]

Will do

[worn fjord]

Nah I had a bug where if I do Descendia then I will only get the VMs next reset

And when I do get the VMs, no chat from Roathe

[night zephyr]

"Which is your favorite way to kill, Usurper?"

[worn fjord]

That’s also why I wanted to get the VMs out of the way

[night zephyr]

That doesn't sound like the start of a pivotal conversation but I could be wrong

[worn fjord]

Damn hold up let me check the flowchart

[night zephyr]

I do still have to resolve the fight Tagfer and Marie had, hopefully that does not have any issues

Also if it helps, I am at "Trusted" rank with all three of them

The issues I'm seeing have seemed to come up at "Close" so maybe if I don't touch it till a patch, they'll be alright?

[worn fjord]

Okay so it’s a Rank 4 convo 6 chat. Not necessarily bugged or anything. But since it’s one of the later chats in Trusted, if you want a different one (more “earlier” one) you can load back in your orbiter/Backroom to change it I guess

[worn fjord]

They had a fight??! I love both of them omg but that’s…so interesting to know

[night zephyr]

Over their views of Entrati I believe

[worn fjord]

That’s what I’m guessing too..And DE will be back after the holidays

[night zephyr]

Since Tagfer has a great resentment to him and Marie reverence

[neat eagle]

Ok so I don't see my nightmare missions am I bugged?

[worn fjord]

Ohhhh that makes more sense

[neat eagle]

Idk if it's a spoiler or not

[night zephyr]

Alright, so there's no timer to respond to these? Like if I leave them for two weeks Roathe won't berate me or something

[worn fjord]

I don’t think it counts as a spoiler

[neat eagle]

Ah ok I'll ask in general then tyy

[worn fjord]

From my understanding, no

[night zephyr]

Okay, that's great to hear, thanks 🙏

I guess I will leave them alone just to be safe, I don't want to punch the ground and reset them

[worn fjord]

The chats will just cycle through all the Rank 4 convos as you load in and out of your Orbiter/Backroom

[night zephyr]

Gotcha, I think there's probably one or more I haven't seen so I guess it'll go back and forth

[worn fjord]

Resetting is the worst, I’ve come this far without resetting (especially after what Quincy said and I stand by it) and I’m not gonna start now lol

[night zephyr]

I remember checking the kimulacrum once I had max with the Hex to see if there were conversations I missed, sure enough I did. I know there's a "view all conversation before progressing" but I didn't at the time

It's good to know the info from there on the new guys though like the internal thermostat counter and whatnot

Through what others have said

[worn fjord]

I didn’t have that option on at that time too. It is what it is

[night zephyr]

It's just having to go through the motions again something about it isn't right, especially when the characters are self-aware as I've seen from Lizzie screenshots

I imagine Roathe is probably self aware

Not sure on the other two

[worn fjord]

Exactly, and even if Drifter does reset I was expecting more of a convo with the Hex or something idk it feels off

But as a game mechanic I know why it’s there

[night zephyr]

For sure

It's a smart way to do that

[worn fjord]

I’m gonna search the forums about the bug

And see if it’s happening to everybody

Or just a few

[night zephyr]

Maybe them knowing just freaks me out like Undertale did way back when that came out

[night zephyr]

That's a good idea

[worn fjord]

Even if they didn’t know..to mess with memories isn’t well, morally right isn’t it? I know this is just a game but I really felt it when Roathe was devastated about losing his memories. “…to lose my memories is to lose myself” or something like that

[night zephyr]

Yeah maybe I'm just too much a bleeding heart even to fictional characters, I dunno

They could just be so well written I care about them as if they were people

[worn fjord]

Nah same here

[worn fjord]

That’s true too

[night zephyr]

I thought the hex were all well written especially in the context of writing styles online, each one has their own way of typing, I liked Amir the most hahah

[worn fjord]

DE went above and beyond with the writing, even if some Drifter responses weren’t my cup of tea

[worn fjord]

Same here!!!!

Amir had the best lines in missions imo

[night zephyr]

I try to think it's Drifter not me but I pick the option that best aligns with my viees

[worn fjord]

But they’re all awesome

[night zephyr]

*views

[worn fjord]

Yea what I meant specifically were the response options for Kaya

There wasn’t much variety and more mean spirited.

At least it was easy to tell which is the right response to choose

But everything else was great

[night zephyr]

For sure, I did feel that the Drifter was talking down to her or had responses that felt more curt compared to some of the others

[amber terrace]

I got this today

So Exorcist and The Devil’s Confessor are different Honorias

Exorcist is for kicking Roathe’s teeth in 21 times and TDC is for listening to Roathe talk about the old war or some shit like that 21 times

[worn fjord]

@night zephyr I found the “bugged” convo— It’s Roathe’s Rank 4, Convo 7 - Usurper. I feel we are nearly there. A few days || more, and the pieces of my mind will nearly be complete. We will nearly reach that point where we "last left off," I believe. It is a strange thing to reflect upon. ||

Basically if anyone does this convo, he automatically thinks that you did reset

Because at that point we’re only supposed to do 17?

Argh….let me read a bit of it before I jump to conclusions

[night zephyr]

Huh, that's odd. Maybe he's not supposed to send all his voice messages by then?

I doubt it has to do with the number of time you do descendia because surely they'd account for people running it 21+ times all in one day

[worn fjord]

Yea surely so that makes me really confused and if we do that convo it looks like we’re missing out on something called a Promise Counter?

sigh

[night zephyr]

I checked the strand of this conversation on the Kimulacrum just now, I apparently had this before I got the last voice message so it went along with him starting with "Usurper, I have a difficult request to put before you."

I got this one yesterday I think?

No, the day before that

[worn fjord]

OH WAIT

[night zephyr]

A promise might have to do with the resetting, or something to do with the deal you make

Not sure exactly

[worn fjord]

THERE’S TWO STRANDS OF >21

Wait so the ones who got the bug got the reset one!!!

Then as long as ppl get “Usurper, I have a difficult request to put before you..” it shouldn’t be a problem

[obtuse gyro]

theyre not the same strand

one is HellStory and the other is HellKeyPlayed

HellKeyPlayed is achievable since day 1

[worn fjord]

What’s the difference between the two

[obtuse gyro]

HellStory...

[obtuse gyro]

HellKeyPlayed tracks the number of times you beat him up in his head

HellStory is the number of VMs youve listened to

[worn fjord]

Oh shit

But I got all the VMs dumped on me

Sigh

[obtuse gyro]

So when he says "where we last left off" or however he puts it, in my head Im thinking its based on the previous HellStory check which was 17 I think?

The KIMs are very clear when theyre checking if roathe knows about resetting, and this thread aint one of them

[worn fjord]

What if I listened to all 21 stories and beat him 21 times

[hearty pendant]

hits that check RoatheKnowsReset2 in like half of his convos

[obtuse gyro]

Roathe 4.7 doesnt check RoatheKnowsReset2 in the beginning

[night zephyr]

Oh so he does know if you reset hahah, unnerving

[obtuse gyro]

so youre not caught with your pants down there

[obtuse gyro]

only if you reset LOL

because the whole descendia work is deeper than the memories you can wipe

[night zephyr]

Right, I still want to wait on touching my convos while they're at Trusted I think, so that I don't have to reset in case something goes awry

[obtuse gyro]

so when he looks at you and wants to ask you to help with descendia, but discovers the work is already completed... he has only one conclusion to make

[worn fjord]

Hmm true… but guess I’m missing on that Promise counter thing depending on how the chat would start for me..

[night zephyr]

Makes sense

[obtuse gyro]

oh that? I've already had that convo so its not so much a spoiler

but its basically triggered if you dont have over 21 HellStory

where he makes you promise to not go deeper

[worn fjord]

And the more Promise Counter you have does what exactly..?

[obtuse gyro]

you can break his promise obviously, you just need to have your head on you as you navigate from there

[obtuse gyro]

if you have the promise counter on, and you keep his promise, it means you stop doing descendia LOL, which obviously cant happen

so youre bound to break it

[worn fjord]

Ohhhh so basically I bypass that since I already did 21 stories and fought him 21 times?

[obtuse gyro]

so if you navigate it right, you can push him towards an ending

[worn fjord]

I didn’t have that counter on so I’m good I think

[obtuse gyro]

if you navigate it wrong... well, lets just say thats why DE made roathe's trees all massive with the RoatheKnowsReset boolean

[hearty pendant]

so are roathe's chats bugged or not

[obtuse gyro]

I think theyre working as intended for the most part

[worn fjord]

The answer I’m truly waiting for lmao

[obtuse gyro]

save for how inconsistently the VMs are dished out

[night zephyr]

Wait that's so interesting, I may have to go back into there and look at the previous chats I did but when he knows you reset

[obtuse gyro]

like the VMs are the one thing controlling the pace and theyre wildly inconsistent to me right now

[worn fjord]

I came here running because people said the Redemption route is bugged?

[hearty pendant]

roathe waited 3 days for me to hit 21 and then gave me 6 VMs in a row lmao

[obtuse gyro]

LOL

Im at 15 or 16 I think?

not my fault I know my HellKeyPlayed is at 21

[worn fjord]

Same

[obtuse gyro]

so he's the one dragging his feet

[obtuse gyro]

oh btw HellKeyPlayed is the thing that determines whether a VM is triggered

[night zephyr]

The way it went for me was I talked to him a couple times after only doing descendia once. Then I beat his ass 21 more times and he first dropped 5 on me, then two per day after his text. Then at the next big rank he dropped another 5 on me and stopped at 20. He gave me the 21 the other day in his message to break up the fight between marie and tagfer

Then I got the honoria

[obtuse gyro]

WAIT

WAIT I CANT BELIEVE I MISSED IT

I KNOW WHY MY VMs ARENT SHOWING

[hearty pendant]

oh?

[night zephyr]

He would only give me the messages after I completed a chat

[obtuse gyro]

Check /Lotus/Scripts/1999/DialogueScriptNodes.lua:StoryConditions(dialogueType=/Lotus/Types/Gameplay/1999Wf/Dialogue/RoatheDialogue_rom.dialogue, rank=4, count=9, storyCount=17)

ITS BECAUSE I HAVENT RANKED UP WITH ROATHE

[hearty pendant]

ah so they are rank-locked

[night zephyr]

i had a feeling it was tied to rank somehow

[obtuse gyro]

ITS NOT INCONSISTENT, ITS BECAUSE I HAVE ALL CONVOS ON

[night zephyr]

Because he did drop 5 when I ranked up lolpl

[night zephyr]

And so we are still unsure if he is bugged to force into villain route hahh

[obtuse gyro]

Im literally still at Rank 3 LMAO

[obtuse gyro]

oh that? nah he's not bugged to go there

at least I dont think so

[worn fjord]

See that’s the thing, after finishing Descendia I don’t get the VM until next reset. Then I got it all dumped on me that reset

[obtuse gyro]

all the KIMs I've played in the game so far has kept every ending open

[night zephyr]

A few people were saying that, and I think one person's been checking to make sure they are on the "right" path and it still went that direction

So I dunno

[obtuse gyro]

odd, are they sure they didnt just yknow, misread the flowchart

[night zephyr]

That is what I don't know hah

[worn fjord]

That’s a possibility too

[thick jolt]

We can only be sure after the holidays i guess

[night zephyr]

Now I wonder if my choices put him on the path to redemption or not, I guess I wouldn't know huh

[hearty pendant]

those flowcharts are incredibly messy
but i'd hope someone's literate enough to find a bug like that

[night zephyr]

I clicked on the one Mar told me of (Rank4 Chat 7) and that alone was like woahhh there's a lota variables here

[worn fjord]

Oh someone on the forum explained the issue well -

“To sum up what I believe to be the problem:

We are not supposed to have listened to all 21 voice messages at this point. They are normally on a 2 per day limit or something like that if I remember correctly and are locked to relationship rank additionally. Problem is that since I for example played with the seeing all KIM chats before ranking up option on, there were several days of me not getting any of them. Upon rank up, the game then dumped the entire rest of the now unlocked voice messages on me immediately, since going by only the number of days I should have unlocked them already. Crucially, this shouldn't happen.”

[obtuse gyro]

yea but that dont bug you to go the villain rought

[worn fjord]

Oh thank the void

[solid otter]

Ohhh im pissed.

Im. Angry.

[worn fjord]

So it might be a case of ppl just misreading the flowchart about the redemption?

[solid otter]

Sorry for the interruption but I need validation

[worn fjord]

No worries

[night zephyr]

So then, it's good? I'm still nervous hahaha

[solid otter]

Did loid sideline the Family's story?

You know. The one finished 5 MUCKING YEARS AGO.

[worn fjord]

Hopefully but I say that tentatively

[night zephyr]

From the forum message it seems to be the issue arose from the "all conversations" option which I did not have on

[solid otter]

SORRY THAT YOU HAVENT RANKED UP THE FAMILY'S SYNDICATE YOU SHIT EATING SQUASH.

Some idiot on tumblr complained about it and I am mildly crashing out

[worn fjord]

Hmmm…

[worn fjord]

Ohhhh

[hearty pendant]

oh, is someone upset about the roathe deal thing requiring r5 entrati fam?

[night zephyr]

They were limited to two per day for me until rank up

[worn fjord]

Well I’m glad I reached R5 for all syndicates before 1999 dropped

[solid otter]

No?? They think Loid took away from the Family's story somehow???

ITS BEEN FINISHED FOR 5 YEARS

[night zephyr]

If you ain't ranked Entrati fam by then I feel bad because they've got helminth stuff

[worn fjord]

Every VM got dumped on you too on rank up?

[night zephyr]

If anything he adds to it as an outside lover of Albrecht meeting his family

[hearty pendant]

huh
yea that's. been finished?

[solid otter]

RAGE.

[worn fjord]

LMAO WHAT— poor Loid

[night zephyr]

Not every voice message, but I think I got four or five instead of the usual two when I went from rank 3 to 4

[solid otter]

https://tenor.com/view/rage-gif-24341837

[hearty pendant]

hold on i want to see this post

[worn fjord]

Interesting

[night zephyr]

Then, he stopped at 20, and I wondered if something went wrong. He gave it to me the next day and got the honor

[solid otter]

Ill dm it to you, + my response bcs I be too lazy to seperate em

[night zephyr]

It feels like that might be intentional but I dunno

[solid otter]

VILCOR DIDNT. DIDNT DO SHIT FOR THE WAR.

THE ENTRATI FAMILY

[worn fjord]

Well I just got all 5 today and got the Honoria as well

[solid otter]

WERE IN FACT. NOT INVOLVED IN MUCH OF THE WAR.

[worn fjord]

So not intentional, probably a bug

[night zephyr]

So he was just holding out on me huh 😔

[solid otter]

Rage. Normal.

Im so normal.

[reef compass]

marie sure didnt have a good time tonight with our chat huh xD dunno where all will go with her..

meanwhile roathe is having a great time asking me stuff? he seems so comfortable?

[night zephyr]

Been hearing that from several people especially confessors during the tagfer fight conversation

[worn fjord]

Should’ve gone a bit gentle on him when defeating him to a bloody pulp

[solid otter]

Roathe probably feels entitled to that information.

[night zephyr]

I was lost in the sauce

[solid otter]

Real

Reckon kalymos likes wet cat food or dry cat food

[night zephyr]

Mix

[worn fjord]

I haven’t had this Tagfer convo yet and I am concerned ..but hopefully I know how to navigate through that

[solid otter]

Healthy mix yeah

With some infestation too

[night zephyr]

And maybe some techrot pheromone

Yeah lol

[reef compass]

yeah i havent had to confront yet directly with her

[night zephyr]

I'm going to move forward cautiously, I don't want to piss her off haha

[worn fjord]

If I can navigate through Minerva and Velimir successfully, then Tagfer and Marie shouldn’t be too hard

[reef compass]

pretty sure i pissed her today, but i felt it was quite inevitable idk

[solid otter]

That stupid post has my entire back clenching and it hurts.

[night zephyr]

Oh yeah they had me so nervous, somehow I got them back together

[hearty pendant]

okay yea they have like. maybe 2 valid points. out of the whole post
could the family be more utilized? sure. but they haven't been, for a while. i'm not sure what they're talking about w/ putting more focus on loid than the family. there's plenty of reason for there to be more focus on loid. he knows what he's doing. the family are working on existing with each other rn lol

[worn fjord]

Which convo and what did you say ?

[night zephyr]

(do they need a third..?)

[worn fjord]

Real

[reef compass]

I didnt and I am not resetting, i dislike that couple after all, Kaya and Flare are neat tho

[night zephyr]

Fair enough, everyone's got their own views on these things

[reef compass]

she was complaining about people complaining

[solid otter]

They also seem to think that Albrecht revived Kalymos for the grandchildren. No you troglodyte. He did it for himself. He wanted his damn cat.

Rage and anger

[night zephyr]

Kalymos seems like the only thing he's ever really cared about but he left her too

[solid otter]

Tbf that is a safer option

[worn fjord]

Huh vague but interesting convo I suppose

[solid otter]

Its more safe for kalymos to stay there then follow him

[reef compass]

so I ended up telling her about what her faith told about such treatment, the other two options were siding with her (no) and comparing her to roathe (no, no way, I am NOT doing that, I value my non Sun view)

[worn fjord]

They missed the lore lol

[solid otter]

EXACTLLY

God.

[worn fjord]

Omg some of these Drifter responses!!😭😭

[lean cedar]

So when do y'all think DE gives us Dark Refractory nemeses?

[reef compass]

but yeah she went off shouting in French, i thought it was the lesser of evils in those choices xD

[solid otter]

"Isn't it interesting that we have a name for Lady entrati" she's dead. She isn't lady entrati. That's Mother.

[worn fjord]

Wally in the Dark Refractory?

[solid otter]

Albrecht mentioned his wife ONCE. And it was to do with her eyes being similar to Mother's. Which doesn't mean SHIT

[lean cedar]

Some horrific trauma-amalgamation that gives you donked-up versions of Tenno weapons would be fun, I think.

[worn fjord]

“lesser of evils” that summarizes it well lol

[solid otter]

I get told I sound like my dad. Sure aint a good thing for me

[worn fjord]

Or.. Operator vs Drifter in the Dark Refractory. I know it won’t happen but hmm just a thought

[lean cedar]

Listen I just want a better Heat Sword.

[reef compass]

idk why I feel we will get new Amps from those

[night zephyr]

Heat sword with actual heat

Slam doesn't count

[worn fjord]

Wait off topic but are the Holdfasts actually dead or resurrected

[solid otter]

Both I think

[reef compass]

yesn't

[hearty pendant]

they're void constructs based on the dead
both is an accurate answer

[reef compass]

as in, they aren't turned to void angels, but they definitely went through corporeal death

[worn fjord]

Are they… void zombies or the void created copies of the original

[reef compass]

so they are holding fast to their selves

[worn fjord]

Oh

[reef compass]

I think of them more like ghosts

[worn fjord]

That makes sense

[reef compass]

i dont think they are having any meals on the ruined zariman <_<

[worn fjord]

..that’s true. I forgot to factor that in

I lowkey wish we could have the Holdfasts, Cavia, Loid on KIM just to chat

Oh and the Family

Family and Cavia would have to use VMs I guess

[solid otter]

Loid has a kimchat!

... 2 chats. BUT STILL

Please DE add more please

[worn fjord]

I need mooooore

[night zephyr]

Fibonacci using text-to-speech

[reef compass]

I cant even begin to think about Bird 3's chats

[worn fjord]

Exactly. DE, Operator at least needs to speak with Loid more (the dad who stepped up)

[worn fjord]

So it’s possible

[night zephyr]

I fear I'm going to be staring at that little yellow exclamation bubble on my POM like this

[worn fjord]

Oh I’d love them

[solid otter]

"Mister loid said its my turn on the computer mister roach"

[worn fjord]

Maybe if there’s too much in one day

[reef compass]

i suppose all 3 would use text to speech

although the image of bird 3 typing away with those claws lol

[solid otter]

Bird calling Roathe "Roach" will always be true to me

[night zephyr]

I think tagfer and bird 3 could do it with those chunky keyboards

[worn fjord]

I love that lmao

[solid otter]

Loid is easy to pronounce

[night zephyr]

Roach cause he just doesn't die

[solid otter]

Roathe isn't 💔

[reef compass]

oh so THAT was why he cut the convo when i told him bird 3 had insights on people lol

[solid otter]

I still can't pronounce Euleria

[night zephyr]

Hey now roaches aren't all that bad

[worn fjord]

Bird 3 has interesting lines when you go up to him

Some stand out more than others

[solid otter]

He mimics Loid in kne

[night zephyr]

bird 3 is goated

[solid otter]

He has a line about not fitting in your body and that

Bird 3 i feel that.

[reef compass]

thats sad with how awesome looking bird 3 is

[night zephyr]

Love his hammerhead

[solid otter]

He also has a line about knowing that mister loid doesn't want to be in the sanctum

[worn fjord]

This was interesting “"I'm glad to be here, but Mister Loid wants to be somewhere else. Where I am he wants to go from. But when I was where I was, I think this is where I wanted to get to. Rark. Wuk. Maybe everyone's here is a there someone else wants. Maybe everyone's there is a here someone wants to leave. Maybe that's what all those voices are murmuring about all the time WILL YOU SHUT THE HELL UP!"”

[solid otter]

EXACTLY THE LINR J WAS MEANING

[worn fjord]

I wish we could hear the ones from previous ranks again too

[reef compass]

ah that one xd

[worn fjord]

You’re welcome

[solid otter]

Mr loid wants to be with his family and Albrecht

[hearty pendant]

murmur
-# sorry

[solid otter]

Im so normal.

[night zephyr]

btw are there somachords for descendia i have found a couple in rebellion, but that guitar man

I need the bgm for my orbiter

[solid otter]

https://tenor.com/view/freak-tweak-tweaker-tweaking-freak-out-gif-16108345590627731463

[worn fjord]

If anything happens to Cavia, there will be hell to pay

[solid otter]

Me rn

[night zephyr]

ok i looked up apparently there are in descendia i just need to find them

[chilly pine]

roses from the abyss, the one that plays when you take control of uriel, is in descendia

[solid otter]

Need to draw loid doing shit for my mental health

[hearty pendant]

there's a couple yea
the two i remember are one at ||marie's stop and one at the start of roathe's oblivion, near the ceiling||
spoilered just in case you want to find them on your own

[night zephyr]

sweet, thanks guys

[worn fjord]

They are?!! Damn I never came across it. Guess it’s time to use Golden Instinct

[worn fjord]

Ohhhh thank you

[night zephyr]

Sorry to Roathe in advance I will be beating your ass again

[worn fjord]

Real

[night zephyr]

He said I'm using him for target practice lol

[worn fjord]

In the meantime I’ll keep you updated about any bugs later

[chilly pine]

btw, how does the roathe fight actually work? last time i tried it got instakilled during phase change

[worn fjord]

Before you get instakilled, switch to Drifter and void sling through the chains

When he’s in the air

[chilly pine]

ah

[worn fjord]

There’s four points where you need to void sling

[hearty pendant]

there's two instakills i've seen
one where he floats in the middle before dashing straight at you, just have to keep moving. quickly
and the one where he floats for a while, and you just have to touch the runes around him (drifter or warframe doesn't matter)
tbh i'm not sure if the first is an instakill or if i've always been at low health when it hits

[night zephyr]

Greatly appreciated

[worn fjord]

You have to void sling through them quickly

Faster if you’re in Steel Path

[reef compass]

no need to drifter can jump through or float with Jade/Hildryn

[remote raft]

Or fly with Uriel

[worn fjord]

Oh interesting

[hearty pendant]

just have to touch them

[chilly pine]

ill probably take titania into descendia then

[worn fjord]

I’ll try that

[worn fjord]

Wait so just the Warframes have to touch them??

All this time… huh

[solid otter]

Me n jade fr

[hearty pendant]

mhm
number of runes scales w/ players i believe? but that's the only change i've seen

[worn fjord]

I’ve been using Baruuk Prime and Uriel mostly

[karmic blade]

Chat what happens if you confess interest in Roathe while talking to Marie

[worn fjord]

Oh that’s cool. I did it solo for VMs but guess I can go public now

[karmic blade]

Help please, I just need one chance with him

[worn fjord]

You will get DrifterRoathe boolean

Which is good

[karmic blade]

I wanna kiss the devil PLEASE I NEED THAT TOXIC RELATIONSHIP

[abstract sorrel]

[karmic blade]

Please Roathe I need this

[night zephyr]

It probably doesn't put you in relationship with him but maybe gives you an additional chat option later on

[karmic blade]

My drifter kinda lonely

[abstract sorrel]

My drifter is lowkey infatuated with Roathe

[worn fjord]

The entire Triad will be effected by DrifterRoathe boolean

[abstract sorrel]

[night zephyr]

I assume then there's a DrifterLyon and DrifterMarie too

[worn fjord]

By that I mean the convos, not much change

[worn fjord]

Yeassss

[night zephyr]

Neat

[worn fjord]

DrifterLyon I’m almost there I think

We’ll see how it goes

[karmic blade]

I need that DrifterLyon action

Guys, I can fix him

[abstract sorrel]

🗿

[worn fjord]

My Drifter doesn’t want to fix him, just accept him for who he is already

[supple dagger]

Is this a bug if Marie and Loie doesn't have facial animation on their gemini?

it's really uncanny

[wild wind]

not a bug, the models mostly aren't rigged for it

[tight fulcrum]

In ballas we trust

He’ll make the origin system great again

He’ll send the sentients back to tau and close the solar rails

[supple dagger]

Are they gonna rig them later?

[worn fjord]

Most likely. I’m guessing if they’ve been made aware of it (on the Forums) they’ll probably do something about it after the holidays

[zenith jacinth]

That's the opposite of what he wanted to do

[worn fjord]

So you can trigger the boolean DrifterRoathe while talking with Marie or Lyon @shell palm

[shell palm]

And which chat would that be

[worn fjord]

Hold on there’s a list but have you expressed your interest in Roathe to either of them?

[shell palm]

Yes to Marie

[worn fjord]

Here’s the list

[shell palm]

It's true for me so I guess he really is bugged right now

Because I have done everything I was supposed to

[worn fjord]

I think you have to be Close rank with him to date probably

[shell palm]

That's the thing I am at the close rank

[worn fjord]

Or you need to finish the redemption or Villain route first before dating..?

Idk

Very well could be a bug

Because VMs for many people are inconsistent right now

[worn fjord]

Not soft locking for ppl

[shell palm]

I submitted a bug report I guess we'll know whenever de's studio reopens if it's a bug or not

[worn fjord]

I think they’ll be back around Jan.8th..? Basically after holidays they’ll work on it

[shell palm]

Hey who knows maybe I'll get lucky and he'll ask me out over text

And I won't have to deal with the bug

[worn fjord]

True btw ppl stated that they’re getting the villain route, is it happening with you too?

[shell palm]

No I got the redeemed route because I was careful with what I said

[worn fjord]

I wonder if it’s because they chose the wrong options or is it truly a bug like they said

[shell palm]

This screenshot would be different if I didn't get the redeemed route

[worn fjord]

That’s true.. I’m not at Close yet so idk what to expect

[shell palm]

Probably chose the wrong options because if you don't tell him he can change he won't go down the redemption route

[worn fjord]

Ohhh

[shell palm]

And also there's a thermostat you can look at in the cathedral to see which direction he'll go

[worn fjord]

It’s in the cathedral?!

[shell palm]

I don't remember where it's located though

[worn fjord]

I didn’t notice it lmao

[shell palm]

I think it's in the pool room you can tell me if I'm wrong

Oh wait that's not in the cathedral oops

[worn fjord]

The pool? You mean where Marie was?

Descendia?

[shell palm]

I'm referring to the area where you start the old peace quest in you can go there and look

[worn fjord]

Oh that hmm okay thanks

Also were the VMs inconsistent for you too? (Like you got 5 or 6 VMs in one day)

[shell palm]

Yup

[worn fjord]

And this happened to you before you got to Close rank right?

[shell palm]

I listened to the listened to the last vm when I was at close rank but yes

[worn fjord]

I’m at Trusted with all 21 stories because of that bug

But I’ll try not to mess things up I guess

[shell palm]

Roathe is really buggy huh

[hoary pond]

is anyone else having roathe's fight bug out at the last step? he fell over but it wont tell me to shoot the throne

[raw arrow]

Apparently the roathe thing is bugged, at least for my friend it seems to be

[shell palm]

Despite being on good terms and having the drifterroathe thing being true I don't have access to the ask to date prompt

[raw arrow]

Same thing for my friend

Apparently he may just switch to the villain route instead of being on the redemption one

[worn fjord]

Ooof really feeling bad for all the Roathe lovers out there

Just hope the redemption route isn’t also buggy

[raw arrow]

Yeah they’re trying to romance him but despite having the romance check on KIM, the dialogue option is not there

[shell palm]

I did the redemption route it's bugged and I can't ask to date

[worn fjord]

Damn wait what if there’s an option to ask in person like with the Hex

[idle goblet]

I’ve been having this issue to I tried asking Lyon and it still wasn’t there

[shell palm]

There should be

[raw arrow]

They did it and nothing, its not there

[reef compass]

stg finding those darn apex tank console drives me nuts

[worn fjord]

I hope there is, I’m curious what the dialogue will be for Lyon

[shell palm]

I saw someone who asked Marie out

[worn fjord]

LYON IS BUGGED TOO

Noooooooooo

[tight pagoda]

Confirmed that they have that

It's not just the KIM

[worn fjord]

Oh thank the void

[idle goblet]

No one works for me 🥲

[worn fjord]

Are you at Close rank?

[tight pagoda]

Romance with them, as a whole, seems bugged

[raw arrow]

Cropping for anonymity, that’s their KIM and on person

[shell palm]

You have to be best friends with Lyon to ask him out I thought

[idle goblet]

Mhmm idk what to do I’ve gotten close and it says that I can ask on the thing but in person there is no option

[raw arrow]

Guessing same thing as i sent?

[shell palm]

It's not just us it's almost everyone having this issue

[idle goblet]

Yes 🥲

[worn fjord]

But looks like there’s no ask option there on the right

[rancid pilot]

imagine if Rebecca has time gated the Roathe romance to 26th of Dec or something

[shell palm]

Why would she do that though??

[worn fjord]

Maybe you have to finish up Roathe’s villain or redeemed route

[worn fjord]

But I saw ppl confessing in text already

[shell palm]

I'm going to finish my route when I can tomorrow and see if I can ask to date then

[rancid pilot]

it's a joke, i don't think she would nor has a reason too, probably just warframe being buggy

[worn fjord]

Keep me updated 🙂‍↕️

[rancid pilot]

it would just be funny, to mess with losers players

[worn fjord]

Bugframe the real April fools

Even if it’s way past that date already

[shell palm]

If I still can't ask him out then it'll be confirmed he's bugged

[shell palm]

After I finish the day 2 chat

[worn fjord]

Oh another important (probably?) question, how many R5 Roathe chats do you have yet to complete?

[worn fjord]

Is that the last one?

[shell palm]

It's not it's just the one after the first rank5 convo

[worn fjord]

Ohh

[raw arrow]

I hope DE can shed some light on it, cuz being taken out of it is irritating

[shell palm]

Is it bugged because I'm dating a hex member???? I'm not breaking it off with Eleanor I refuse

[worn fjord]

No it shouldn’t be… there is a consent convo after you confess to Roathe

…hmm but if it is a bug…

[worn fjord]

We can only hear back from them after holidays

The wait will be long (kinda) but they need the rest

[tight pagoda]

She's greedy

Never forget the other thing she did regarding a Renee Zagler character

[rancid pilot]

Roathe KIM is a bit frustrating because i confessed since Rank 4 Convo and every convo since is basically glossing over it happening at all 😭

[formal fable]

my marie today not so happy and also roathe and lyon devil triad abit hard to tell which questions to ask my all closed as well

[shell palm]

He's bugged

[rancid pilot]

tbh, looking at the number of triggers and counters, i'm not too surprised that it's got a bug like this

[worn fjord]

Yea..that’s true lol

Also off topic but playing as Quincy right now and realized how much I missed the lines lol

[rancid pilot]

Cyte-09 is so fun, but playing him on controller feels bad sometimes

[stiff harbor]

had another brain thought: i think if they DID do another group of Protoframes...they would do the "Perita Anarch Vanguard" or PAVs where their protos can still hear the minds of the Tenno trapped within due to a "bad batch" from Entrati

[formal fable]

well my one gg already

rip

[rancid pilot]

so Mesa, Caliban, Protea, Volt and Ember?

[stiff harbor]

correct

[rancid pilot]

i could see it, except Volt/Amir exists already

[formal fable]

hoping can get best friends with marie

and the rest

devil triad abit hard to pick which convo is best

[stiff harbor]

well...remember Kaya unlocked Portal Time Travel? what if Amir was the first test subject due to his speed and he got tossed into Perita?

[rancid pilot]

i don't like the implication of Amir being lost in time and getting turned into a comandeered warframe

[worn fjord]

I don’t mind more but I hope instead of that DE expands on what we have already. More KIM convos with the Hex or questline

[shell palm]

Oh so I figured it out you have to confess feelings in his 3rd rank 5 convo to date him

[stiff harbor]

🤷

[hearty pendant]

• kaya and amir already sent a roomba with an explosive attached through a time portal, that was their test subject

[worn fjord]

..same

[worn fjord]

Oh yea

[shell palm]

I had to go on kimilacrum to figure out why I couldn't date him and now I know why

[stiff harbor]

well again this was just a brain thought i had to get down on "paper" before i lost it

[shell palm]

Unless I'm wrong

[worn fjord]

There’s only one convo??? Damn what about the ppl who didn’t have “all KIM messages” option on

I don’t think they’d limit it to one convo

[hearty pendant]

its a rank 5, so all of the rank 5 ones should play anyway

[stiff harbor]

well what if after enough roomba testing, they needed a "human guinea pig" and since amir was fast enough to zip in and out, he was the one that volunteered?

[worn fjord]

Oh I didn’t know that

[rancid pilot]

i did the rank 5 convo 7 and confessed to him, it became really sad at the end

[stiff harbor]

ough

[worn fjord]

So even after that the romance couldn’t start for you/is bugged?

[shell palm]

There's two convos where you can confess feelings the rank 5 one is just the one he'll accept and not gloss over

[rancid pilot]

future convo's just didn't acknowledge the confession, the next convo was the ||Marie Tagfer fight|| and the it was the rank 5 convo 1 and than the Rank 4 Convo 3for some reason

[shell palm]

I hope this helps

[worn fjord]

I think because for that convo, you can see there’s no flag that checks for RoatheDating or something like that

[rancid pilot]

wait now ignore everything i said

i might have flubbed the ranks for the convos just now

[worn fjord]

So it’s not that he’s ignoring you, it’s that DE forgot to add that boolean in the chat

[worn fjord]

Wait what happened

[stiff harbor]

DE bugged Roathe's relationship track so they are making ahotfix

[rancid pilot]

no i'm stupid, i'm on rank4 only,

i wish it was the word not just a number rank, i keep getting them mixed

yeah i'm stuck on the Rank 4 Convos, so i probably got a bad order of convos

i think what's happened for me is, i got the Rank 4 conffession convo super early, so I ended up with the other rank 4 convos, which don't seem to have a confession trigger or something

[abstract sorrel]

You know what I noticed

Drifter is a warrior but doesn’t like really using violence unless necessary

But Operator has no qualms and is extremely detached from using acts of extreme hyperviolence to achieve their goals

[rancid pilot]

Drifter isn't really trained or anything, they were stuck in Duviri for most of their life, so they're more a survivor than warrior

Operator is straight up a child soldier

[hearty pendant]

yea operator is a child soldier and drifter died every day for hundreds of years

[abstract sorrel]

[worn fjord]

That’s probably it. Again those R4 convos might not have the boolean to check if you’re dating Roathe. The boolean might be there only for R5 convos

In case DE forgot or something

[rancid pilot]

yeah that's what I think as well

[worn fjord]

So you’re good!

[formal fable]

me dating roathe but wanted marie haha

apperantly i can rommance roathe but not marie

[worn fjord]

It’s a slow burn with Lyon for me

[formal fable]

my kim says still lyon and i and are closed now

but marie yesterday got fight

[worn fjord]

No it’s possible im sure. You just have to trigger boolean “MarieWillDate” probably

[abstract sorrel]

Operator as a whole isn’t exactly a paragon of morality, as due to their Orokin upbringing following the Zariman incident where they were treated as freaks at first, then useful freaks when the Old War fell in the Sentient's favor, and then their reawakening to immediate warfare in the modern day, their style has really become shoot first and wonder later.

They use their time to perfect and hone their craft of focused, fast, and absolute destruction, because that is what they have been told they’re meant for since the Old War, they were taught how to kill and adapt and mod and kill again, long before they're encouraged to wonder about their impact or the consequences on the world around them.

[worn fjord]

Fight with you or || Tagfer? ||

[formal fable]

but today i confessed feelings she say you used carnail stuff to get to me

[abstract sorrel]

🗿

[formal fable]

tagfer fight

i think she is pissed

[worn fjord]

True… well said

(Crying about Operator again don’t mind me)

[abstract sorrel]

Their mind and mentality has bern deeply corrupted

[worn fjord]

It’s supposed to happen I think, I haven’t gotten to that part yet

[abstract sorrel]

All they know is being given orders to kill and following those orders with ruthless efficiency

[worn fjord]

But others have

[formal fable]

well i can show you my conversations with marie

[worn fjord]

The life of a child soldier…

[formal fable]

apperantly today me with roathe he said will kill all but only he will be left for albrect to retuurn only

[abstract sorrel]

I don’t know how they can be healed to be honest

[shell palm]

I looked in the kimilacrum and there's this

You need to apparently trigger these to date him

[worn fjord]

Lots of hugs and understanding — Loid is already doing a good job

[abstract sorrel]

As kind as the Lotus wants to be, she is using Operator for the same thing: kill the enemies of the Tenno without mercy and with the same ruthless efficiency they did during the Old War, and almost every main story quest since the second dream has been focused on bringing the operator back to their former level of power so they can kill even more

[formal fable]

this one is from roathe from me today

[rancid pilot]

a whole ass laundry list, well thank you for sharing this, it has reinvigorated my quest

[worn fjord]

I just wish we had KIM convos with Operator too. Want to help them as Drifter

[formal fable]

marie

[shell palm]

Rank 5 3rd convo

[formal fable]

btw i asked lyon he said he has reli memories though

[abstract sorrel]

It would probably do them some good, since most of the time they seem to be in their own thoughts

Literally and figuratively

[worn fjord]

So wait wait— what do you need help with? I’m not at those convos yet but I’ll try help if I can

[worn fjord]

I’m not gonna read the chats sorry 😭 (don’t want to be completely spoiled yet)

[formal fable]

my i think all borked alrady

[hearty pendant]

not sure how accurate that characterization of the lotus is, considering half of the quests you're pointing to as "the operator just getting stronger," lotus is barely involved with them doing so. old peace and war within are the biggest examples. the operator goes into the kuva fortress despite lotus's warnings; the operator pushes themselves to go deeper into their memories, lotus just agrees that it is necessary

[worn fjord]

Hey Grey do you know where the thermostat is? Someone said it was at the pool area (during the quest, that scene) but idk where that is?

[hearty pendant]

no, i spent a bit looking around that room after i heard about it, didn't find anything

[worn fjord]

Hmmmm

[abstract sorrel]

Because the Operator as a soldier is dedicated to the conception, implementation, and execution of whatever gameplan or method they deem necessary to get the job, whatever it may be, done as quickly and efficiently as possible, and often results in a display of horrific brutality simply as a byproduct.

[hearty pendant]

i'd also point to the sacrifice as the biggest antithesis of your point, where the operator spends the whole quest empathizing with umbra, and ballas points out the unique ability of the tenno to "see inside an ugly, broken thing and take away its pain"

[worn fjord]

is it this...?

[hearty pendant]

maybe? that could be a thermostat ig?
where's that at, i could go look to see if its different

[abstract sorrel]

Because the Operator themselves are a broken child, they see themselves in Umbra and latch onto them, it does not make them any less dangerous or dedicated to their goals

[worn fjord]

The drawing next to the Cathedral entrance stairs (left side)

[abstract sorrel]

In that same quest they stabbed Ballas through the chest and killed him

Even at their best, their actions result in displays of brutality and violence

More often than not

[hearty pendant]

exact same diagram, prolly not it
hmm

[rancid pilot]

that was completely justified with what Ballas had done up to that point, it wasn't exactly extra brutal either, we just stabbed him (also didn't kill him)

[worn fjord]

It does look like a thermometer tho 😂

[abstract sorrel]

He was revived by the Sentients

[hearty pendant]

there's a staircase beneath bird 3 that leads to the dark refractory room btw

[hearty pendant]

it does, sorta

[worn fjord]

Oh istg that was closed when I checked.. maybe I’ll check later

[rancid pilot]

i'm pretty sure we just stabbed him and he got whisked away right after. Like it probably was meant to kill him, but technically he didn't die and Erra makes him into the chimera

[hearty pendant]

he's fairly limp during the cutscene, and he claims to have died later
unreliable narrator n all that, obv, but its fairly likely he died or was close to it

[rancid pilot]

wait he straight up claims to have died? oh, mb then

[abstract sorrel]

I’m not saying the Operator is bad or evil

I’m saying we were brainwashed into becoming killers and due to that end up inadvertently or not doing acts of brutality

The operator is broken

[rancid pilot]

yeah, it's just the Ballas example seems a bit weird, cause we didn't do anything particularly brutal, we just stabbed him, that's the tamest way we could have done that

i'd argue the Uriel Crashout or the staff throw at the Elder Queen is more indicative of the operator's brutality

[abstract sorrel]

I would say the worst one we did that’s canon confirmed is the attack on Tauron

That was straight up an act of barbarism

Storming a school is crazy

[rancid pilot]

also, granted it was a choice, just smoking daklo on sight

[balmy storm]

As brutal as they were it’s also very understandable

[rancid pilot]

also true, very valid crashout

[balmy storm]

The Grineer queen is

1. An Orokin
2. Had lead the grineer for a thousand years
3. Tried to literally murder us and steal our body

And I don’t even need to say why Tauron was valid lmao

[rancid pilot]

considering we just had a wedding graduation earlier and our partner friend died

[balmy storm]

Also, as brutal as the Operator can be It makes sense lmao
They’re a kid with the most powerful abilities in the system wielding walking warcrimes

As smart as the tenno can be they are still a child

[rancid pilot]

i'm not crazy that graduation felt weirdly like a wedding, i guess it's joining of the sentient and orokin for the younger generation so it's like a symbolic marriage

[balmy storm]

And Tauron was losing what innocence they still had, faced with war

[balmy storm]

It was absolutely a symbolic and platonic thing lol

[rancid pilot]

definitely 0 romantic chemistry, but i was so strange the first time 😭

[balmy storm]

It reminds me of the concept or Moirails from Homestuck

Which is basically a soul mate but best friends and not anything more

[abstract sorrel]

Understandable? Yes. Valid? Ehh

I’m not sure if attacking a school is justifiable

[balmy storm]

I mean it kinda was?

If they got the chance to kill Ballas right there and then that’d absolutely be valid lol

[rancid pilot]

to be fair, the school was underattack before we came

we didn't start the fight, we came to end it

[hearty pendant]

to take one step backward
is it actually a school? armed guards, no other students

[abstract sorrel]

The only thing that makes it look that way is the carnage that happens to happen at the same time due to the simultaneous Sentient attack, otherwise it would just be a lone Tenno attacking a school and probably killing anyone who is in their way just to kill one person

It’s utter carnage all around

[balmy storm]

The
Sentient attack?? Did you play the quest???

The Grineer attacked the sentients under orders from the Orokin

[hearty pendant]

the moment the treaty breaking was announced, the grineer attacked

[balmy storm]

The whole idea of peace was a farse, the Operator was valid in attacking the school, the people they thought they could trust but not only betrayed them but an entire people, including their best friend.

[abstract sorrel]

My mistake, but the point is that carnage was happening which kinda obscured our part in it

We were going to attack Tauron regardless

[balmy storm]

They were going to attack regardless???

You do know the Orokin are in the wrong here, again, yes?

[abstract sorrel]

The Operator? Yes. As soon as Adis died and we started walking back that was already sealed.

[balmy storm]

That they planned this whole thing

[balmy storm]

No, the GRINEER

Yes we were going to attack, Wally was egging us on, feeding on our anger because our best friend just died because of what the Orokin just did.

[abstract sorrel]

The Orokin are wrong for breaking the treaty, the Operator made the decision to attack the school. I’m aware of people’s opinions on the Orokin but not literally EVERYTHING is their fault all the time

[balmy storm]

It kinda is like most of the time

And the Operator didn’t wholly make the decision, they were specifically egged on by Wally.

They also attacked the school that was full of, not innocents, but those who were attacking the innocent Sentients

It’s like saying a Jedi fighting back during Order 66 is in the wrong cause they were brutal about it

[hearty pendant]

wouldn't say it was sealed until wally hit us with "they're laughing at you up there, kiddo."
looked like there was a moment of hesitation before that

[abstract sorrel]

That would be a fitting comparison if the Tenno didn’t end up being the ones who did the Order 66 of the Warframe universe against the Orokin

[balmy storm]

We’re talking about the Old Peace
And also
That’s not equatable at all beyond a planned strike

The Orokin got what they deserved, brutal or not they had it coming after centuries of pain THEY caused

I know you’re an Orokin apologist but seriously, they weren’t innocent.

[abstract sorrel]

And according to Palpatine, the Jedi Order got what they deserved

Anyone can say anything if they win

[hearty pendant]

okay there's one big difference there and its that we have proof the orokin were Terrible People in most cases

[balmy storm]

Which faction used child soldiers and killed people for immortality alongside untold amounts of warcrimes while having a complete hold on the entire system?
Oh right, not the tenno.

[rancid pilot]

Ok you're comparing the Jedi, who were a stagnant order who became too big for their own good and upholding a shitty status quo and the Orokin, who commited every warcrime under the sun, mostly for fun

[hearty pendant]

primary sources, even. roathe, albrecht, the rest of the entrati family, teshin. we see it during the old peace

[rancid pilot]

I love Roathe, Mr "Devil of Tau" admits the Orokin were bad and had to change

[balmy storm]

He’s the closest we have to an actually redeemable Orokin because we can actually put in the work for one person
Can’t do that for all of them

The Entratis being the least terrible and also necessary
They also, while still. Awful, are much more redeemable and are suffering constantly for their crimes

[rancid pilot]

I think it helps we don't know what bad stuff, if any, the Entratis did, and Grand Mother seems pretty cool with non orokins, so it's easier to believe they were "good" orokin

Roathe is fun cause we know EXACTLY what he did

[balmy storm]

They at minimum killed kids for immortality

[worn fjord]

That’s true

[abstract sorrel]

I don’t believe in wiping out an entire group of people wholesale, even if some of them did horrific crimes. I will always say there was a better way than that, and I hope one day DE shows the Night itself either as a quest or as a cinematic so everyone can really see the true horror that occurred, free of the tinted lenses from which it is viewed

[hearty pendant]

well we weren't exactly going to get them to reform

yes, it was horrific, but i'm not sure there were any good alternatives for the orokin

[abstract sorrel]

My issue is that people romanticize it as if though we were saving everyone

We plunged the system into a dark age

[thick jolt]

Even to an orokin that wanted to change them the solution was killing the others

[rancid pilot]

ok, i agree with the wiping out entire groups of people part, but that's really works in real life only, there is a nuance to reality that the game and story isn't going for, the Orokin were terrible and had no intention of reliquinshing power and thus doomed to be destroyed by something, if not the sentient, then the tenno (both of which they created and both turned on them)

[thick jolt]

Or even themselves considering roathe's plan

[worn fjord]

I think what most ppl are saying here is that it was a valid crashout from Operator. Not romanticizing it

[abstract sorrel]

I’m talking about the Night of the Naga Drums when I say it is romanticized

[balmy storm]

This isn’t just a group of people, this is a group of tyrant billionaires who care for nobody but themselves
The literal worst of the worst of humanity.

[balmy storm]

Better than the Orokin Empire.

[abstract sorrel]

Do the children of billionaires deserve to be killed for having their last name and being born into their families?

[reef compass]

I am one to think that we will have to control Hildryn to defend Ballas and avoid some Paradox, with Kullervo as the boss

[abstract sorrel]

My family is well off, should I be killed for having this wealth and being born into it?

[balmy storm]

It depends
But as we have seen even the children were more than messed up, the Grineer queens for example who were children, cast out by the Orokin and still turned out rotten.

[abstract sorrel]

That is something that can go very far into an extreme.

[balmy storm]

Was it extreme?
Yes
But there wasn’t another option, not really

[reef compass]

wait they were kids? I thought they were high rank orokin according to the Simaris notes

[balmy storm]

I don’t really care how brutal the night of the naga drums were when 99.99% of the Orokin deserved it

[balmy storm]

They were twin sisters cast out for being twins

[reef compass]

well at least one was high rank and got eviscerated, unsure about the "friend" now

[thick jolt]

There are no simaris logs about the queens iirc

[reef compass]

oh twins

[balmy storm]

Not at all high ranking if they got booted for being genetically identical

[hearty pendant]

the lorists were a different set of twins

[reef compass]

I thought they were that one that joined the grineer rebellion

[thick jolt]

Orokin went "oh ew they look like clones throw them out"

[balmy storm]

That’s the Grineer queens yes

They were Orokin twins that went on to leas the Grineer post collapse

[thick jolt]

You are mixing bilsa and alarez stuff with grineer queens

[balmy storm]

Oh yeah forgot they also had a whole thing lol

[reef compass]

yeah most likely i am it just seemed fitting xD

[thick jolt]

Grineer queens only have their story in the kuria poem

[balmy storm]

The queens turned out rotten and they were booted from the Orokin society
I don’t exactly trust that any Orokin child would have done good

[abstract sorrel]

No. It doesn’t depend. Children are children and having a certain name or parents do not make them to be marked for death ever.

That is a horrific statement

[hallow wharf]

Same. I really wish the Night of the Naga Drums was expanded to be more than just "Tenno murder all the Orokin"

[balmy storm]

It does depend when it’s Orokin children which are also just as awful at times.

There’s a whole Naberus story about Orokin children body snatching people for Halloween costumes

They were just as bad.

[worn fjord]

In regards to the Night - I guess your point Kazirei is that they could’ve handled it better but there in lies the problem —in the end they were children , child soldiers yes but they acted on emotions first and for them there wasn’t another option

[reef compass]

you know, now that Werner Herzog is a voice for Warframe, reminds me of that movie he made about children going crazy at a party and doing awful stuff

[balmy storm]

Again, I know you’re an Orokin apologist and I get that normally this would be absolutely messed up
But there really wasn’t any Orokin that was innocent.
Maybe some were some semblance of good, but never innocent.

[hearty pendant]

tbf it wasn't entirely the children acting, either. it was the lotus

[thick jolt]

Not even the oh so great and wise orokin minds really saw another out as shown by roathe

Like even among the orokin the way they saw outta their situation was killing eachother

[balmy storm]

It shows that as horribly horrific as mass murder can be there wasn’t a better option, not really

For all the chaos we caused it was better than whatever the empire would have done next

[reef compass]

it was just a boiling point of karma reached

[abstract sorrel]

Yes, that is my entire point. Orokin society by the end was degenerate and partook in some of the worst humanity had to offer, but in slaughtering them almost to the last man we in the end just continued violence and brutality.

[reef compass]

could have been diplomatic? maybe? would it have been feasible? not at that point

[abstract sorrel]

Some of the Orokin needed to go, I will not deny that

[thick jolt]

Most

[abstract sorrel]

Creatures like Ballas were beyond all reproach

[balmy storm]

Okay, genuinely what was the better option?

[thick jolt]

People like parvos were also stomping around back then

[balmy storm]

When the Orokin proved time and time again that they cannot lead humanity I don’t think there really was any better solution
Even if Roathe succeeded who’s to say he wouldn’t succumb to the power, continue the Kuva

[worn fjord]

I guess that’s the best question to ask right now to settle this discussion a bit

[reef compass]

tonight I had a dialogue that Roathe told me that ||Ballas and Margulis loved EACH OTHER|| so...

[thick jolt]

Untill margulis dared look to anyone that wasnt ballas

[abstract sorrel]

I don’t doubt they did, once

[reef compass]

but yeah, makes one wonder how things were before? if there was a moment, something that the guy that was in the middle deciding to vote peace or war, which is a REALLY hard thing to do... that made him snap

[balmy storm]

With how consistently awful they were it was the better option, you can’t redeem all of the Orokin, even if you selectively choose who there’s bound to be issues as the Orokin have proved time and time again with their behavior they care not for anyone but themselves

[abstract sorrel]

But I’m not surprised people are surprised, because when people like Ballas are loved, it forces you to humanize them

[reef compass]

was it envy? or something else? idk

[abstract sorrel]

And no one wants to humanize Ballas because we only know him for his cruelties and vileness

[reef compass]

thats ||exactly what the chat turns out to be||

[balmy storm]

Ballas’ singular good trait is he actually loved Margulis for like a minute
And then he tainted that like he, and just about every Orokin does

[reef compass]

which is a dreadful statement for most of the players cause we hate Ballas SO MUCH

[abstract sorrel]

I don’t deal in absolutes

I don’t treat the Orokin as an absolute monolith

[balmy storm]

Even though they kinda are

Now I ask again, what is the better solution?

[reef compass]

nah, orokin werent monolith

[obtuse gyro]

funny enough, given how roathe describes how ballas was bound to draw the ire of each side in the vote, I realise that ballas satisfied both sides extremely easily

voted for peace, sabotaged it for war

now the peacekeepers and warmongers are happy

and ballas is all the better for it

[worn fjord]

It’s such a case by case basis, which the operator didn’t have the time or energy to go through at that point… which again is very understandable from their POV

[balmy storm]

They can’t all be redeemed, they don’t listen to reason, you can’t imprison them so what’s the solution
They were the problem, so what do you do with that?

[balmy storm]

I mean them and all the other tenno
They can’t go case by case, it was a now or never kinda deal

Who knows when they would have their guard down again

[worn fjord]

Mmhmm

[balmy storm]

Given the options wiping then out was the best option

[abstract sorrel]

Put out feelers for Orokin that weren’t degenerates or beyond hope, those that were decent, and do the same for Archimedians, and coup the Emperors and Executors

Put some decent Orokin in charge and make them actually change things

[balmy storm]

And how long would they stay decent when born from that society?

[reef compass]

in a way, the night of naga drums was also a surgical strike like that, against emperors and executors

[thick jolt]

And yet in the same chat roathe comes to the conclusion that it was just the simple act of margulis caring for someone not ballas that caused ballas to snap

Let's be honest here if caring for orphans made him snap things were gonna go south sooner or later

[balmy storm]

Also assuming any Orokin were good enough

[reef compass]

so we cant really fault the tenno doing such

[worn fjord]

Wasn’t that Roathe’s plan if I’m remembering correctly

[balmy storm]

Oh it absolutely wasn’t their fault
The night of the naga drums was initially planned by Ballas

[balmy storm]

His plan was wipe em out and take over himself

In which case you can question if he wouldn’t be corrupt

Which he and many other Orokin likely would be given that much power

[worn fjord]

Ohh

[balmy storm]

Even if you put out feelers for decent Orokin there’s no telling if they would just become as awful with time

Also assuming decent Orokin exist

[obtuse gyro]

Honestly roathe might have abdicated... provided that whatever came after satisified him... Im not sure if he'd be satisfied

[thick jolt]

His plan was kill everyone else and put himself in charge until a new government could be found

And when questioned by drifter he doesnt deny he probably wouldnt let the bone go

[obtuse gyro]

I don't think that could have reasonably been an option

given yknow, the Night of Naga drums being marred as a "beyond the grave" strategy for the Sentients and not a revolutionary act like what roathe had in mind

[balmy storm]

The closest thing we have to decent Orokin are nowhere near decent people

[thick jolt]

Again noone in universe saw a realistic future where the orokin could be convinced to turn for the better

[obtuse gyro]

The Tenno might have been the actuators, but like all the gaggle of co-conspirators for the Night of Naga drums... you know that they envisioned an end to the empire as a whole, and not a reformation of the empire

[balmy storm]

I’m outside it and I’m struggling to see a realistic way it could be done