spoiler-chat

[reef compass]

I feel like ||it sidestepped Lyon's own whatever he goes with||

very kind words though

[pastel pasture]

i hate how Nova's KIM is so....unhelpful? I mean yeah you do help her eventually but like

all the conversations feel like

Kaya: teach me about Protea

Drifter: hah hah you sure do like time travel don't you. Well you see Protea exists.

end of chat

[opaque dove]

She said she hates how you make her blush, clearly something is being done right

[remote raft]

Yea I hate to get a French to English translation before I moved on and laughed after reading it

[pastel pasture]

now how do i get Roathe to love me

[opaque dove]

I had the option pop up to express an interest in Roathe when talking to Marie a while back, didn’t take that route, however

[thorny creek]

"Remember this"
GET YOUR GRUBBY UNWORKED BLUE CLAWS OFF MY FACE

[opaque dove]

Wot

[thorny creek]

ballas carriage reveal lol

[opaque dove]

Oh

[reef compass]

I can't quite say but at quite the beginning of the chats I remember Marie having an option of "express interest for Roathe" maybe that gets you down a path for him?

it was a very explicit option saying that like the trigger warnings

which fitting huh
"trigger warning: orokin romance"

[rain otter]

I love that his carriage says shit like "if we have to do a emergency continuity we will use your body" and such.

Also it seems to he a Calphalon just for his carriage.

[reef compass]

thats actually a perfect excuse for not letting you fail ngl

[pastel pasture]

"Tenno, tell us what you remember"

"I was leading a carriage and the executor inside died...or was going to die. Then he used continunity on me sealing my fate to a mind death."

"Tenno that makes no sense at all."

[reef compass]

no no, it would be way worse, cause as someone put it the other day
"yeah, Ballas gets you body and then his mind gets zip bombed by visions of dancing Murmur body parts"

its not that Ballas would win, is that he would lose HARD against Wally

thus, you would be letting the Indifference in your mind yourself

[thorny creek]

I would love to see an orokin perform continuity on a tenno now. I wanna see that guy go insane

[zenith jacinth]

they wouldn't

[thorny creek]

[hearty pendant]

+ the one who tried got eaten by voruna

[keen steppe]

Are we still talking about descendia here or can that go in general

[remote raft]

(bites ball-ass blue finger off)

[lean cedar]

Huh. Funky little quirk. if you're aim-gliding close enough to the ground, you can hit the parazon prompt over an enemy and even though the kill animation is happening on the ground, it'll still count for the "kill x enemies while aim-gliding" challenge.

[keen steppe]

Is there a fix for when roathe dies to marie and completely disappears without letting you destroy the throne

And im taking my questions elsewhere.

[tight fulcrum]

I’d imagine that would go in the bug reports mega thread

[midnight swallow]

Lyons name just make me go PREVIOUS lyon

[midnight swallow]

i really wish they had of dropped this as an amp skin

plat or like a 2% drop from a boss fight in duviri or something

[zenith jacinth]

What is that

[midnight swallow]

old duviri amp

pre release

[hearty pendant]

lotus hand, looks like

[midnight swallow]

watch the original duviri paradox gameplay demo

i would have rathered this lotus hand skin for my amps then the sirocco amp skin to be fair. this was soo cool to see in the demo

[zenith jacinth]

Meh, I prefer sirocco

[hearty pendant]

idk if it works the same as that demo but you can still get the lotus hand by dying a bunch in duviri
v bugged though, i believe

[pastel pasture]

warframe is a perfect game with no bugs

this is post sister confrontation

[balmy storm]

They super would lol

If they had to they would
We have 3 instances of the idea of an Orokin continuitying into a Tenno body

[zenith jacinth]

I meant they wouldn't go insane

[balmy storm]

Oh I thought they meant insane like
Not mentally lmao

Like how we go crazy in a mission and deal damage cap or something lol
Yeah no they wouldn’t go insane

[analog plover]

It'd be neat if there were airborne Parazon finishers

[ornate oak]

Man, the discussion with Roathe about how Ballas and Margulis met was... uh... man, I hope I didn't miss something.

Also like, dude, why are you telling Drifter this story like it even matter that much what they think. Ballas didn't do any of this to them. He did it to the kid.

Drifter can't forgive Ballas even if they thought he was forgivable, cause all he did to them was try to kill them repeatedly during The New War.

I let the dude tell his whole story as far as I could tell, and in the end it was nothing but ||'Actually, Ballas genuienly had a crush on Margulis. Then she got kids and he got jealous and went insane.'||

[ornate oak]

I don't think we have any way of knowing what would happen. We've never seen an Orokin succesfully perform continuity with a Tenno.

[rancid pilot]

At the very least the Grineer Queens thought it was safe enough to try

[lofty girder]

i mean they are desperate

and likely unaware of the true extent of the void shenaniganery going on inside our head

[rancid pilot]

Personally I headcanon the orokin during the old war were more picky, and being the void devils, tenno probably were off limits for those reasons. Grineer Queens already did continuity with cloned bodies, so they hardly cared for the formalities.

[lofty girder]

they were social outcasts from their birth anyways

[rancid pilot]

Exactly, they hardly cared about what cultureOrokins had, rather that they were the "superior" as Orokin to the grineer and thus took control of them

They have a certain degree of ruthless practicality, but the same Orokin arrogance

[lofty girder]

you can cast out the worms from the orokin, but you can't take the orokin out of the worm

[floral badge]

I think i like him more than the entrati simp

That is not a romance is it ? That is a tragedy

https://tenor.com/view/fire-writing-gif-24533171

[solid otter]

.. Marie or loid?

Marie likes Albrecht because he quite literally gave her the ability to move without a wheelchair, id say its understandable

[floral badge]

Cant romance Loid so Marie

[lofty girder]

Im just hoping future convos with marie lets us convince her that entrati has issues

[solid otter]

You... can from the start

I just go the route I think personally.

[lofty girder]

Fairly sure i picked those options, but i can't recall exactly

Tbh the only one im a bit eggshell-ish is roathe

[solid otter]

We do not have much of a choice outside kinda relying on Albrecht, so I chose that option

[lofty girder]

Probably cause i need to be aggressive with his ass

[solid otter]

You need to use heat to cook an omelette :)

[floral badge]

I said hes a good liar and she went off on me 🤣 im sure it will be a while before i can romance them but so far im conflicted which happened with the Hex too was going for Eleanor but ended up liking Aoi more

[solid otter]

.. yeah.

[lofty girder]

"im teaching you self love with the power of violence, whether you like it or not!"

[solid otter]

Because you insulted the literal miracle worker that made her able-bodied again. I too, would go off at you for it.

[solid otter]

He has a moment, a kimchat, where he doesn't want to continue with the descendia. WELL TOO DAMN BAD.

YOU GONNA FACE YOUR ACTIONS IF YOU LIKE IT OR NOT.

[lofty girder]

"WHERE ARE MY VINQUIBUS BLUEPRINTS ROATHE!?"

[solid otter]

... I aint gonna like i bought the whole collection cuz im too lazy to grind

[lofty girder]

Tbh i got most of it from the maphicas

[solid otter]

And i spent my plat on adding to the Albrecht shrine

[lofty girder]

I came to play Old Peace on a Sunday, so i got double decendia rewards

[tropic venture]

tbh with how cheap the BPs are I'd just run Descendia normally

[next rose]

guys what do i do?

this hits too close to home, i also have memory traumas

option 2 is a no

option 1 is a bit cheesy but i feel like its the right one

[pure merlin]

Damn, your options are so different from what I got.
I'd say do what you think is right, option 1 doesn't seem too bad, but then again I've never gotten those options so I'm not sure what would happen if you chose 1 or 3

[livid glen]

I got through 21 fights for the Honoria after the first conversation so I'm not sure I can even receive this conversation anymore

[pure merlin]

I'm pretty sure you can, I did the same

[ornate oak]

I mean, considering he thinks Ballas loved Margulis because he didn't blatantly abuse her until she got a kid... I don't think he knows what love is.

[next rose]

I chose 1

And got nothing but its ok at least i let rhoathe know we can do this

[zenith jacinth]

Ok but why would they go insane

[lofty girder]

wally

[unique dagger]

i wont lie, i thought adis would become hunhow

or at least become a big bad we'll meet later on

[cerulean kiln]

I just thought Adis was gonna die

[unique dagger]

adis dying felt kinda soon imo

[obtuse gyro]

imo option 2

[cerulean kiln]

I thought after we killed the other Sentient the peace would break and Adis was gonna fight us

[next rose]

Its late now but ty

[unique dagger]

that was how i thought it was gonna go down

[lofty girder]

Speedran an entire marriage over the course of an hour lmao

Get hitched right after high-school, get into a fight, one partner dies, then the most valid crashout in history

[livid glen]

Become a widow any% speedrun

[unique dagger]

lmao yeh, we technically got married

looks like both operator and drifter have had relationships now

[dry panther]

Is ADIS Jade’s light or do we know what that is already?

[unique dagger]

i think it worked on us, because our souls bonded

[cerulean kiln]

No, Ballas just gave her Jade Light like abilities

[zenith jacinth]

What

[brittle tangle]

Adis' light isn't even jade, it's just blue

[uncut solar]

Don't you remember his song

Cast and cry cast and cry

I am mr jade light

[teal valve]

Unsure was explained what his abilities was like

Unless I missed bits of info

[uncut solar]

He is a sentient healer

A very rare occurrence

[cerulean kiln]

Healing is like the only ability we know

Jade Light doesn’t heal at all

[zenith jacinth]

It very much does the opposite

[livid glen]

Well, I mean, I guess from a certain point of view... /j

[uncut solar]

cauterize a wound with a death laser

[still swan]

excuse me holidays? what should i ask him?

[cerulean kiln]

Ask them and find out

[tropic venture]

Maybe choose for yourself

[still swan]

damm did not even know they called like that

[teal valve]

Sounds familiar to some books I read where the characters celebrate similar times

[tropic venture]

winter and summer solstice are irl things

[uncut solar]

ew

[tropic venture]

The Orokin were nothing if not morbid

[signal token]

i kinda miss the bickering

[signal token]

and then i rage baited him into "im not a coward!"

feels like tape over a dam

[balmy storm]

Reset them

[signal token]

hell no

saving that for when i fail fables & frontier

[balmy storm]

You can reset separately

[signal token]

go away wally

[balmy storm]

You can choose which specific group

[signal token]

the reason why Marie call us "wolf" is so stupid and makes alot of sense

||"Rap tap tap let me in little piggies"||

[brittle tangle]

Oh, that's actually delightful

[tropic venture]

Might also be a nod to Sköll and Hati, the two wolf-like Giants in norse mythology who chase after the sun and moon, hence why they move across the sky

with how the Void is sometimes described as wanting to "devour" Reality's space and stars

[opaque dove]

Been a minute since I seen those two mentioned

[gentle cape]

i dont. that was painful to get through... i'd rather they stay sickeningly sweet than reset them back into "one single word from you & im jumping your ass".

[worn fjord]

My fav text from Lyon so far. I like how it was written — || Trust is a stained glass window. Delicate in its creation. Beautiful in its splendor. Tragic in its breaking. And dangerous once destroyed. ||

[broken monolith]

No i meant to say its because sp has higher drop chance so does that help or not change anything

[livid glen]

Yeah, exactly. Because the length is not affected at all (assuming you can easily kill the bosses), the extra drops from the Vanguard is definitely worth it.

Not actually sure if the end of mission rewards are affected, I'm assuming so but I've never done a none-SP Perita Rebellion mission. Either way the Vanguard itself would more than make up for it.

[thick jolt]

The drop chance booster doesnt help for that no

But separate from that the bosses do drop more of the resources

Drop chance only affects the chance that the enmy drops something when they die

So it has no relation to end of mission rewards

[fleet ledge]

does anyone know the name of the soundtrack that plays during the last fight with adis in the old peace quest?

[fierce kiln]

https://youtu.be/bwhIN58HKTg?list=PL6_mpbR7CMAOduKE9fNNkqCJxN1b05Fko

also on streaming platforms

[drowsy valley]

Is there a post of the lyrics for Roses of the Abyss yet?

[fleet ledge]

omg thank you so much

[burnt maple]

They gotta let us turn in galariak and sagek for ducats fr fr

[fallow pilot]

i haven't seen one yet, though presumably since it's all/mostly Latin it's going to be easier than Executor 😂

i still can only make out like four words in executor 😔

[fierce kiln]

im sure there is some latin in it but i swear i also hear some requiems

[edgy zodiac]

ok i just finished the old peace and i am genuinely very confused as to where it fits in on the timeline of events

i thought the tenno were called that cuz of the zariman ten-zero void jump incident, how'd our operator make it to tau? was there a second trip?

[real niche]

No, the Solar Rail the Sentients built and Adis mentions in that same quest.

[hearty pendant]

the sentients were sent to build the rail, the zariman was sent after, zariman incident, sentients finished the rail after

[edgy zodiac]

ohhhhh okay

so the order is:

• sentients sent to build rail
• zariman colony ships sent during rail construction
• ten zero incident
• solar rail finishes
• start of old war
• old peace/restart of old war
• end of old war & fall of the orokin empire?

[hearty pendant]

yup

[edgy zodiac]

ok cool, thanks for the clarification

the solar rail line must have just slipped my memory

[nova minnow]

I'm sure this has been explained already, but I have a question about how we were on Tau, despite the Zariman Ten Zero incident;

In the events of The Old Peace, is it our operator who survived the incident, then ultimately still made it to Tau with their newfound void powers, while our Drifter split off into a different timeline where he never made it to Tau, and instead got trapped in Duviri?
OR, are the events of The Old Peace following an entirely different Tenno, who wasn't aboard the Zariman?

[real niche]

They didn't make it to Tau because they had Void powers; They made it to Tau after the Zariman was rescued because of the Solar Rail the Sentients built. Drifter not only didn't make it to Tau, they weren't even rescued from the Zariman at all.

The second one doesn't make sense because the Tenno come from the Zariman

[nova minnow]

Gotcha

So basically it was the first option, where they were rescued from the Zariman after getting their void powers

[shadow cairn]

So the Old Peace tells us when the Operator is put into the dream.. or maybe put back into the dream? Margulis makes it sound like its a pre-existing concept, so maybe not all Tenno were “allowed” to go in and out of warframes at that time? Plus we see the operator blast Erra with the Lotus so there is now clearly precedent for Tenno temporarily being woken up and then put back under, it’s not just a one-time thing..

[obtuse gyro]

it is a prexisting concept

because before it was used in the warframe project it was used for therapy

before they pulled an eva/gundam stunt the kids were getting their noggins checked

[hearty pendant]

when they blasted erra, the eyes are dark. probably still in the dream then

[chilly pine]

that was how they got the kids to learn how to control their powers was it not?

[shadow cairn]

Hey i bet that cutscene looks a little nicer after the rework i’m gonna rewatch it

Hm. Did it always put you in your own outfit? I thought it used to force you into a zariman suit colored the same as whatever you had on but maybe i’m just confusing it with new war..

[hearty pendant]

not sure if it put you in the zariman suit then before, but tnw still does

[fiery oyster]

"Sit In Your Shadows" - Citizen Soldier

[reef compass]

have I done something strange or does everyone get the option to ||confess feelings|| for Roathe?

...I am not taking it, I am just curious <_<u

[neat eagle]

Anyone else having a glitch with lyons conversations on Kim?

[ornate oak]

Am I the only one who feels like, as much as I enjoyed The Old Peace on its own, it actually didn't answer any existing questions, and just added more to the pile? Like... I mean, apparently now it turns out we were being harassed by Wally constantly the whole time, so wtf was Rell doing?

[tulip moon]

ive never seen this postion for wally, did they add new ones?

[uncut solar]

It's a setup for the Tau update, not really meant to

I assume the actual answers will be there

[reef compass]

I am waiting for all Lyon's dialogs to be done with before judging that, myself

[serene lynx]

I've gotten that one throughout the years

[uncut solar]

That whole thing about radiation in the quiz also will probably come up

[tulip moon]

i usually got the weird hand stand one in that spot, crazy to think im still seeing new ones

[reef compass]

but the main deal is that the loss of memory apparently was from Wally

[ornate oak]

Every new major quest adds tons of questions. We have so many built up now that it's kinda notable when only adds more without answering any previously raised ones.

[uncut solar]

Like?

[reef compass]

its also very odd that whole radiation locking device seems to be just in an ARG before an update

[ornate oak]

Like wtf was Rell actually doing if not stopping Wally from Harassing us?

[reef compass]

no, Rell stopped Wally from filtering even further

Rell was more like... a filter

cause you need the Void energy to come after all

pulled by the fingers and such

[uncut solar]

This will definitely come up in the update later

[reef compass]

which means he was then quite used and abused : /

[uncut solar]

I wouldn't be surprised if that's what wally needs

[reef compass]

Rell's being gone is when you start to see Wally right?

[uncut solar]

Ye

Rell is gone and wally starts to show up

[reef compass]

so that means now Wally has a foothold and everything starts spiraling

[ornate oak]

It's explicitly stated by the player Tenno that they believe Margulis is going to make them forget, so I dont' see how that works.

[reef compass]

maybe has to do with the deal Lotus (and her personalities, which includes Margulis) has

[ornate oak]

See and hear. You only hear him one time at the end of The War Within before that. Other than that he's completely silent until Chains of Harrow.

[reef compass]

the Indifference was calling the Operator but Lotus got in the way in Lotus Eaters

and Wally says she broke the deal

so possibly Margulis promised us to Wally

in exchange of removing the memories

and able to sleep

tbf in a way being asleep is being submerged in the Void right?

Lotus decides to wake us and free Lua etc

that might have been the point of breaking the deal even

[ornate oak]

Margulis isn't one of Lotus' personalities. Lotus was made in the image of Margulis, so she has aspects of her personality coded into her. She's not actually Margulis.

[reef compass]

I wish I could agree fully with you, but the game is lately being very weird about some things

there's also the whole Pazuul using Ballas lines that's quite eerie

[real niche]

I wouldn't be so quick to say it isn't one of her personalities, but Margulis the person being a different person from Lotus is true.

[ornate oak]

See, this is kinda what I'm talking about. In order to answer the questions presented in the new quest you had to make up a bunch of wild speculation that wasn't even vaguely hinted at in thhe story.

[reef compass]

I mean its not making it up

its what Lotus says in Lotus Eaters

she blocked the Indifference's call to us

and she broke the deal

which deal? when the deal? who?

[ornate oak]

That's what I'm trying to say. They're completely different people, even if Lotus has a facsilime of Margulis' personality incorporated into hers.

[reef compass]

thats more nebulous but maybe its multiple answers and yeah its messy

it does add and explain but yeah we need Tau to move on and maybe get finally definite answers

[ornate oak]

THis is why I was saying that Margulis is not "one of Lotus' personalities" They're two completely differentt people. Lotus is based on margulis to an extent, but that doesn't make them the same person.

[reef compass]

the whole thing about continuity makes this kinda weird though

[real niche]

There's no mention of any kind of deal in Lotus Eaters. She just knew that Wally wanted to take Operator for some reason and had to bring in Drifter to do 1999.

[ornate oak]

Lotus didn't break a deal Margulis made because that's impossible. Lotus and Margulis are two different people.

[reef compass]

then again can continuity be done on sentients? why lotus and erra get these kinda things?

[real niche]

We don't know about Continuity on non-humans
Why are we even bringing up Continuity?

[reef compass]

cause Erra/Pazuul spewing Ballas lines

and Lotus having personality stuff from Margulis

[ornate oak]

Wait, are you changing the subject? I'm not sure how that follows from our current discussion.

[reef compass]

it follows on that the line on what is Lotus and how much of Margullis is there and it if affects the possible deal between Margullis and Wally

it's not that complicated (maybe)

[real niche]

She... didn't make any deal with Wally as far as we're aware

[solid otter]

... there was no "deal" as far as we know

[real niche]

Neither of them did

This is just made up.

[solid otter]

There's no indication Margulis has even seen wally.

[reef compass]

Wally does think she had a deal

[obtuse gyro]

I mean, why is it a necessity for continuity to be part of the conversation wrt to this?

[reef compass]

at least Lotus is implied to

[obtuse gyro]

but lotus isnt margulis

[solid otter]

Okay but the lotus isn't Margulis

[obtuse gyro]

and lotus didnt make no deal

[ornate oak]

The idea that Wally can't tell the difference between a person and a computer simulation of that person is a really weird assumption to me.

[quick smelt]

The only deal made we know the most about was our operator and Wally (considering it’s a major lore point)
Lotus is trying to keep repelling Wally from taking her child

[real niche]

No one mentioned anything about a deal in Lotus Eaters, just that she was being called to Wally for some reason.

[reef compass]

because Lotus herself says its one of her 3 parts, even if its not the same person

[obtuse gyro]

again, what does continuity have to do with this

[hearty pendant]

people who have made a deal with wally are like.
us, baro, parvos maybe, rusalka, vor(?)

[quick smelt]

Assumption that Margulis did continuity on lotus or something

[solid otter]

... continuity was rarely, if at all, used on people outside the orokin caste. Let alone what the orokin see as a literal object.

[obtuse gyro]

what does the ritualistic process of transferring and locking in your consciousness in another body using kuva have to do with a man implanting a replica of his dead lover into a machine

[reef compass]

well we dont know actually, precisely, but why do Sentients have person memories or traits? in Erra's case, Ballas sentences and in Lotus' her whole Margulis part

[solid otter]

Also.

Kuva is void related. Something that would harm a sentient.

[obtuse gyro]

like if continuity was involved with the lotus, there wouldnt be a lotus

thered only be a margulis

[reef compass]

it might not be "continuity" but it might be something other

[quick smelt]

Not necessarily
Apparently Kuva could heal a sentient’s scarred womb

[hearty pendant]

yea ballas reprogrammed natah to be more like margulis

[quick smelt]

Hence the whole Gara sacrificing herself to blow up the giga sentient

[reef compass]

what are the big pools of liquid the sentients come out from btw?

I even thought it was kuva back then haha

[hearty pendant]

temple kuva could, yes, the stuff refined by the unum

[quick smelt]

No idea

[ornate oak]

I don't know what specific sentences you're referring to, but Erra was Ballas' subordinate during the entire Old War, and we know pretty much explicitly that Ballas reprogrammed Natah to resemble Margulis.

[real niche]

Definitely not.

[obtuse gyro]

so then how would you characterise the personhood of Hunhow?

[ornate oak]

What pools?

[real niche]

The ones when you enter Murexes and stuff

Big pool of metallic goo

[reef compass]

that's in the Archon missions, when Pazuul spews exactly after Lotus says there's another personality at play the Ballas "you are afraid of the possibility that I am right"

[ornate oak]

Oh like, the weird floating blobby metal?

[reef compass]

yeah all that goop in those

...which makes me wonder why is there none in Tau?

[real niche]

We dunno.

[real niche]

Yeah I'm gonna be real without pointing to the exact quotes I'm not sure what you're talking about.

[ornate oak]

I don't remember Ballas saying that, but again, Erra was his subordinate for the entirety of The New War, so him saying something similar to him one time isn't reason to think he literally is Ballas.

[reef compass]

it's usually on Nira weeks

[ornate oak]

I know Erra says it. I don't remmeber Ballas saying it.

[hearty pendant]

Lotus: "All messages decrypted. Pazuul is not merely insane, Tenno. There is another mind at work within him."
Pazuul: "Just admit it, Natah. You're scared to face the possibility... that I'm right."
not finding a relevant ballas quote but still looking

[obtuse gyro]

you do know we know what the two minds in pazuul are right?

its erra and pazuul

[worn thistle]

Executor Nitokh is death or missing?

[hearty pendant]

her status is unknown

[worn thistle]

So we have 4 dead and 3 unknown?

[hearty pendant]

yep

[rancid pilot]

Inb4 Nitokh is alive right now In Tau and trying to do her plan of taking over again

[worn thistle]

I think so too; I highly doubt they mention her so much just to do nothing

[rancid pilot]

I half suspect Nitokh would be the face villain with her making a deal with the Indifference

[tulip moon]

wait who were the other 2 unknown seven

ik ballas, Fatso, tuvul are dead

[hearty pendant]

Avantus, Ballas, Karishh, and Tuvul are dead
Nitokh, Tormis, and Scarne are unknown

[tulip moon]

ah ok

[echo basalt]

scarne from what roathe has said in his vm's was on the side of wanting peace with the sentients so he could maybe be alive

[hearty pendant]

keyword there is maybe. we don't know

[echo basalt]

a flimsy but okish theory is that nitokh got turned into the first garuda

and tormis is a mystery

[tight pagoda]

Technically that wasn't Drifter

[tight pagoda]

Those make Sentients I think, and maybe they can only be made on Murexes? Like they're part of the murex which fragments off and makes the new sentient fragments from itself?

Idk.

Another thing could be that the Orokin could make the pools on Tau, but since ||they had no plans for the Sentients to actually stay there, they just didn't bother||

[jagged sable]

Maybe that goop is made up of microscopic sentient nanomachines?

[lean cedar]

So, un-fun discovery of the day.

During the Dactolyst fight in Perita Rebellion, Hildryn Prime is too bulky to fit through the gaps in its firewalls.

No matter how perfect your aim is, you still take the heat procs.

[tight pagoda]

Muscle mommy muscle mommied too hard

[lean cedar]

Fairy Quadmother got too jacked.

[jagged sable]

Hildryn Prime: Why do I keep getting heat procs?!?
Operator: It's your muscles, You're too jacked Hildryn!
Hildryn Prime: What?
Operator: You're too jacked
Hildryn Prime: Is that man in the wall guy messing you up, you're muttering mumbo-jumbo that I cannot understand.
Operator: Your muscles are too big
Hildryn Prime: Clearly this is that void tongue junk that I've heard about. Nothing you're saying makes any sense!

[lean cedar]

Turns out her hitbox is too wide and the heat wall always touches it.

[amber terrace]

Genuine question: if I don’t immediately respond to Roathe’s chemistry KIM message and instead wind up doing a Descendia, does the Descendia voice message immediately eat the chemistry KIM message?

[worn fjord]

That did happen to me once. And I never tried it again lol. Although that chat will come back in the next reset. Even more likely if you have the “All KIM chats” option on

[amber terrace]

Ah, thanks for the heads up : )

[worn fjord]

No prob, VMs and Roathe’s chat after it were a bit buggy for some people including myself

[worn fjord]

Do you have the option for all the chats turned on btw?

[amber terrace]

I haven’t turned it on yet, mainly because I don’t want to reset my 1999 core Hex KIM because I’m happy with Lettie

[worn fjord]

This? It doesn't reset anything. It just makes sure you get all the chats for the ones you're currently talking with (Triad). I turned it on around the time the update dropped, even after finishing Hex and the Roundtable

The only difference apart from getting all the KIM chats is that reaching higher chemistry takes more time

[amber terrace]

Okay so apparently I am a connoisseur of tasty rocks because I’ve apparently had this setting on since before the update, mb

I won’t lie, I feel like a complete dingus coded uber goober rn lol

[worn fjord]

Oh at least you had it on! That’s good lol, more lore and chats for you

[worn fjord]

Nooo it’s fine! If it makes you feel better I didn’t have it on during Hex..when I thought I did

[amber terrace]

If I am to rely on my,,, spotty,,, memory, I would like to say that DE added that around the time of Techrot Encore but I may be mistaken

[worn fjord]

Yea I vaguely remember that..it was added later

So Roundtable I guess

[plain nimbus]

hey guys anyone else getting the bug of descendia when host leaves we are in an infinite free fall and the mission wont progress?

and im not sure where to report this

[worn fjord]

That is the worst bug damn..

[worn fjord]

#support-and-bugs

[plain nimbus]

thank you ,3

[worn fjord]

No prob! You can also check the Warframe Forums to see if others got the same bug and if it’s already been reported

[plain nimbus]

thanks i just posted on the forums

[eager dagger]

So is it just more or does it seem like based on lyons kims Mf’er is hearing the man in the wall?

[solid otter]

He absolutely is.

[eager dagger]

I wonder why tho he’s not rell

[trail maple]

why is roathe, marie and the harrow guy human? Werent the only protoframes in the past?

[rancid pilot]

They're still in the past, also protoframes more exist when Albrecht decides to infect somebody with the helminth for whatever reason

for the Hex, it's seemingly to help us

for Devil Triad it seems more of a redemption thing

[peak minnow]

WHy does this make sense -

[trail maple]

oooh so that portal takes us back in time?

[hearty pendant]

-# it. it says "XX99" when you walk through it

[rancid pilot]

Roathe also mentions having to basically make do with their primitive tech to "reverse engineer" a Helminth to get to our time

[solid otter]

It is one of his more selfish things, but i do understand it. Guilt is not a fun thing to have.

[rancid pilot]

also the KIM with the devil triad really does make it seem to be some point in time before 1999 (could still be 1899) and not a post radiation war France equivalent

[solid otter]

Oh it is

Current time is 1899, from the clues we've gotten

[eager dagger]

All except Roathe are from the past

[hearty pendant]

roathe is still from the past. just a far more recent past compared to the other two

[solid otter]

Time is relative anyways/j

[hearty pendant]

true,,,

[eager dagger]

Well yes but recent past as he was with the Orokin war in tau but Albrect snatched him up right before he toppled the empire

[rancid pilot]

I was secretly hoping that there would be a twist and this was a post radiation war earth, but with the mentions of the world outside of the Cathedral seem pretty normal to just a rural town so

[solid otter]

I had someone try to convince me they weren't rural bcs "cathedrals aren't in rural areas" 😭

[hearty pendant]

whuh

[solid otter]

They seem to associate cathedrals with the huge ones found in cities, not that they're just places of worship for catholic people

[hearty pendant]

the famous ones are the huge ones. they're not the only ones that exist tho lol

[trail maple]

wait but roathe is an orokin

did the orokin exist in 1999?

[hearty pendant]

no

[rancid pilot]

Albrecht kidnapped Roathe and brought him to XX99

[hearty pendant]

he'll explain what happened to him in the first few chats, with more detail later

[trail maple]

but why would he kidnap him lol

[rancid pilot]

that's for you to discover through the KIM

[trail maple]

ahh aight

thank you for the lore

[eager dagger]

Traditionally cathedrals aren’t in rural areas that is correct they tend to be in cities

[solid otter]

... homedawg there's one in my rural town.

In Australia.

[eager dagger]

Yes and apparently that’s where he protoframed all of them

[solid otter]

A historically not very religious country

[eager dagger]

In rural towns they typically put Diocese not cathedrals it can be confusing but they are different

[rancid pilot]

interesting, are they Catholic, i assumed most Australians would be some denomination of protestant?

[eager dagger]

Ah here in the US it might be different

[eager dagger]

That we don’t know yet we know the effect it had so far and what happened after

[eager dagger]

He takes Roath from tau when the Orokin were fighting the Sentients and then goes to 1999

[solid otter]

Most of us are atheist, hard to find a Christian.

Haven't seen a Jehovah's witness in 6? 5? Years

[rancid pilot]

fair enough, also didn't know JW were in Australia

[obtuse gyro]

wack, I saw one just yesterday, Ill send them your way

[solid otter]

Jokes on them, I'll be moving tomorrow so you're just gonna send em to a empty home!!

[obtuse gyro]

they have your scent

[solid otter]

That's... horrific

Actually considering the last time I saw a witness was in the area I'm moving to, I might see one again

[obtuse gyro]

Jehovah Jireh

[solid otter]

My honest reaction

[tropic horizon]

whoever said I'd like Whispers in the Walls cause I like the Magnus Archives, you were right in the first half, but so far this is giving me more of a CONTROL vibe than Magnus Archives. it probably doesn't help that I usually abandon my frame in favor of the Drifter who's kit feels very similar to Jessie Faden, but also the names of the Big Bad Enemy are similar (The Hiss, The Murmur), and they both follow similar concepts that they aren't doing this out of malice, they're either indifferent or don't even realize what they're doing.

[solid otter]

Oh hi thats me

[tropic horizon]

also, Loid needs therapy, for his sake and the sake of anyone who dares interact with him. man is depressed and he is making it my problem.

[solid otter]

And thats why i said you'd like it. Literally none of the other shit lol

[obtuse gyro]

well loid can get in line

[tropic horizon]

oh fair enough lol

[solid otter]

I know you fans well enough for me to guess you'd like Loid

[tropic horizon]

I am trying to like Loid

it is not easy

[solid otter]

Common thing for them to love blonde twinks in a situationship

[solid otter]

He is a bit of a diva, but you learn to love him once you learn why

[tropic horizon]

I'm getting the impression that a lot of his depression comes from the fact that Albrecht just wasn't a very nice person to be with

[solid otter]

1. Gay as shit
2. His lover abandoned him
3. Broski is lonely and stuck with animals that hate his lover

[solid otter]

Oh no, Albrecht was rather good to loid

[tropic horizon]

hmm... I'll have to play a little more then cause I've been misreading this

[solid otter]

You're just seeing the relationship after wally has purposefully divided them

[wild wind]

Albrecht was capable of incredible charm, genius, and insight

The problem is that Albrecht went on a mad crusade against the Void itself

[solid otter]

Well, realistically noone else could

[tropic horizon]

I'm glad again I'm not playing this with headphones cause the Voidtongue is spooky enough

[wild wind]

He has at least one suicide attempt during this, abandons Loid two or three other times, dumps work on Loid, and then at the end he orders Loid to destroy his way home and go into cold sleep for some rando to wake him up to start the back and forth all over again

[solid otter]

Just go read Albrecht's notes, you'll learn.

[solid otter]

Tbf Albrecht regularly came back, and Loid would be with the family

[wild wind]

Not once the war started in earnest

Part of the reason Roathe wants to reunite Loid with the family is that he knows Albrecht wouldn't want him to

[solid otter]

He only stayed in Duviri for an extended time, but there is odd time warping for Duviri and the real world

[solid otter]

Albrecht does, he just knows he can't

[rancid pilot]

actually so by the time Albrecht goes to 1999 and Loid smashes the pod

1. does albrecht not come back to present after that
2. is it before or after he went and sent Roathe to XX99
3. does the family think Loid died and only necraloid remains

[wild wind]

For 1 and 2 Loid smashing the coffin is the last time Albrecht travels to the past
3. Yes

[solid otter]

Family thinks loid is dead
After, he wouldn't have been able to return from xx99 if he did
He is currently in the present.

[wild wind]

Tossing Roathe at Marie and Lyon is an earlier plan

[rancid pilot]

ok that makes sense, it's just because we got that content later my brain gets scrambled

[wild wind]

Yeah, DE's going to get a lot of mileage out of this

Heck, Arthur has a few conversations about this

[solid otter]

Roathe being kidnapped happened before he destroyed the sarcophagus, or he wouldn't have been able to leave xx99, if it is indeed before 1999

[rancid pilot]

do i have to mind wipe him to get those?

[wild wind]

How many myths and legends are Albrecht seeding history with protoframes

[wild wind]

probably yeah

[solid otter]

I just want to know how Lyon feels about one of his religious icons being deadass Loid

[hearty pendant]

imo, the fact that albrecht uses a helminth (and not the coffin) to transport roathe says its probably after he leaves 1999?
but i'm not attached to that thought either

[wild wind]

that might be to carry Roathe with him

certain Orokin technology plays badly with the infestation, plus Albrecht doesn't use the Helminth to leave

[solid otter]

He wouldn't have been able to have gone through the helminth, iirc Albrecht was physically there and I don't think he specifically can time travel with the helminth

[rancid pilot]

the way Roathe words it, it does seem that the Helminth was to bring Roathe since it strands him in XX99 but not Albrecht

[hearty pendant]

yea, those are fair points
whole thing seems weird

[wild wind]

Roathe actually reverse engineers a Helminth to connect up with the Sanctum

[rancid pilot]

btw, props to Roathe for somehow on his own create a Helminth with extremely primitive tech and just trial and error

[solid otter]

Used his own blood as samples

How much blood did he need like damn

[wild wind]

The portal to Albrecht's Exile was reactivated for you, afterwards

[solid otter]

Im also curious to why Loid never knew of these protos

[wild wind]

Albrecht didn't tell Loid about a lot of the projects

[solid otter]

Tbf I wouldn't have either. Loid would worry far too much.

[rancid pilot]

Albrecht has a olympic gold medal in bad communication

[wild wind]

he probably knew there were protoframes all over, but them being able to reach the Sanctum via Helminth time travel is incredibly out of pocket

[solid otter]

It is unfortunately needed.

The more exposed to wally a person is, the more at risk they become

[rancid pilot]

I kind of hope they don't make Albrecht time traveling to "X" year retroactively more common

[solid otter]

Its unlikely, iirc they've said they've finished making protos for now

[rancid pilot]

like maybe a batch of Proto's on modern day Tau for 2026 👀

[solid otter]

Loid proto please-

[wild wind]

they just said they were done with 1999 iirc...

But also, more voidshells DE please

[solid otter]

Oh God please no

Protos are cooler when there's just a few of them

[rancid pilot]

i think 1999 doesn't need more characters, just build upon what's there

[wild wind]

https://tenor.com/view/snow-white-witch-evil-laugh-laughing-evil-gif-4850418

Also, someone has to be in charge of 1999 void relics!

Who's going to tell you about fissures, and needing reactant? Can't be the Lotus.

[rancid pilot]

Kaya, she's underused anyways

[wild wind]

plausible, but at the same time, Xaku and Kullervo and Revenant protoframes

[steep hemlock]

I'm slowly falling in love here then the honoria pop-up ruins the mood...

[wild wind]

some of them should REALLY be emails

[fierce kiln]

some of them could be put earlier in the game, for example the one for fate pearls could be easily put at the koumei shrine

would make more sense lore wise too

[fierce kiln]

julius ceaser as kullervo

[undone lodge]

Ceaser

[fierce kiln]

he got enough stabwounds for it

[tight pagoda]

I'm especially wondering about the Quest ones. Do they get included in the email? Or will there just be an unceremonious pop-up after getting it?

[tight pagoda]

https://tenor.com/view/slam-table-28stab-wounds-connor-dbh-detroit-become-human-gif-17801169

[fierce kiln]

seen footage of it just popping up during the quest completion screen, covering other text

[tight pagoda]

💀

[fierce kiln]

it fades away so not a big deal but could be better

[tight pagoda]

Definitely do think they should move some to other vendors

Roathe still has the Arcane store and other wares so it wouldn't make him redundant

[fierce kiln]

yeah its a bit gated for new players for like 70% of titles to be in the current endgame

[eager dagger]

So anyone see DeSeige’s latest video about Drifter fighting the Operator based on Roathes dialog?

[obtuse gyro]

who'd he call wally this time

[eager dagger]

He didn’t call anyone Wally just a really interesting point on why we could be setting up an operator vs Drifter conflict. https://youtu.be/ytOIPmzHMA4?si=WOmBCNn-5WAd5sKt

[cerulean kiln]

Literally not what’s being set up

[eager dagger]

I think it could be there’s a reasonable enough amount of clash points now where I think we could end up in a Tenno or drifter situation

[rancid pilot]

what?

[cerulean kiln]

Old Peace was giving Operator a reason to go to Tau nothing more

[tight pagoda]

I mean it'd be cool to see but I don't think there's been any reason for them to fight

[cerulean kiln]

There’s literally no conflict between them being created

[tight pagoda]

I don't watch DeSiege but from everything I hear, it seems like they just lack basic reading comprehension

[eager dagger]

Watch the video, he’s got dialog points more particular locus seems willing to let the indifference take our Tenno (at some point)

[rancid pilot]

i wonder if the Tau quest is gonna have Operator and Drifter do different things

[tight pagoda]

That's like the opposite of what she's doing

[eager dagger]

I suggest you watch he’s got real interesting well thought out points

[tight pagoda]

Lotus Eaters was literally her going "No you can't go to 1999 it's too much of a risk"

[cerulean kiln]

He hasn’t

Literally nothing in the dialogue from Old Peace suggests it

[eager dagger]

She point blank tells the indifference “not yet” when he’s trying to take your Tenno like they have a deal where he gets you at some point

[eager dagger]

Watch the video

[cerulean kiln]

I don’t need to watch the video to know that’s not what is being set up

[eager dagger]

Yeah then you give your argument up I guess

[cerulean kiln]

Dseige has a habit of saying stuff with zero backing to it

[eager dagger]

Folding your arms and pouting saying you won’t watch the thing kinda is you folding

[cerulean kiln]

No it’s me knowing already what he’s like

[eager dagger]

Your choice tho bud

[cerulean kiln]

Nothing at all suggests Drifter vs Operator

[eager dagger]

You have a whole dialog exchange with Roathe about it…..

Like I said watch the video

[cerulean kiln]

Theory vs reality

[eager dagger]

Ok bud whatever you said lol

[cerulean kiln]

They literally share the same slot of spacetime

How would they even fight each other?

[eager dagger]

You didn’t seem to know this happened so I can why you’d think that operating without knowing any of this

[rancid pilot]

the Roathe hypothetical is that Lotus once got mind controled before,
that she could be being manipulated by either Albrecht or the indifference
and that in such a case the operators might become enemies to Drifter

[eager dagger]

They share opposite ends of zariman event and as lotus eaters showed us they can be in the same space no issue

[rancid pilot]

I would give it more credence if Roathe wasn't the resident shit stirrer

[eager dagger]

As DE tends to bread crumb I’d be shocked if this isn’t the case

[clear sparrow]

Roathe wants Albrecht dead. Anything involving Albrecht from him is unreliable.

[rancid pilot]

Also tbh it seemed more like Roathe was asking if the Drifter could take on not just the Operator (althought that what he opens with) but rather the other tenno as well

[eager dagger]

They literally have them in the same space in lotus eaters guess they changed their mind

[wild wind]

I think we file that under "shitstirrer"

[rancid pilot]

they had that weird split down the middle

[cerulean kiln]

Did you even read what that just said?

It explains how they did that

[eager dagger]

Did they? I don’t remember that

[eager dagger]

Yes, see previous reply

[cerulean kiln]

They didn’t change their mind at all

[eager dagger]

They literally say they’re occupying the same space what are you on about?

[cerulean kiln]

Yeah, which has been the case since New War

[eager dagger]

You wouldn’t be so confused if you just watched the video or at least bow out because you didn’t even know about the Roathe convo

[obtuse gyro]

woah hang on

[rancid pilot]

ok so it isn't a clear split, but the framing of it is weird and the fact that the operator and drifter always take turns talking, never talking over each other, seems to imply that there is more going on

[eager dagger]

Can you find a pic of it? I don’t remember a split

[obtuse gyro]

Lotus doesnt have any lines from Lotus eaters or subsequent idles that have her do that

[eager dagger]

It happens in the old peace as a cut scene

[obtuse gyro]

homie, the answer to your question was in the same piece of text

[obtuse gyro]

aight bet lemme check

[eager dagger]

Yeah that’s how I remember it I wouldn’t say it’s a divider I’d say lotus is between them

[obtuse gyro]

@eager dagger right there at the end of the paragraph

[eager dagger]

Dude it’s awesome it plays off her saying she wants to let the indifference take our Tenno

I answered that already

[obtuse gyro]

I think there must be some confusion here

[eager dagger]

There isn’t

[obtuse gyro]

there very much is gimme a hot second

[eager dagger]

There is not point blank

[obtuse gyro]

Nem sends the pic of the AMA saying how and why they occupy the same space

you reply, "they literally have them in the same space in Lotus eaters guess they changed their mind"

but right there in the screenshot, it's specifically stated how theyre both there in Lotus eaters

so they very much didnt change their mind

[solid otter]

They've always been able to do that, since we've seen them together on the zariman

[obtuse gyro]

and more than that, the AMA came after Lotus eaters, because thats the 1999 AMA

[solid otter]

Areas weakened by the void, or dipped into the void as an area allows them to exist in the same "space"

[eager dagger]

So we establish they can occupy the space space time in the void, in the sanctum in the zariman - so there are locations they can fight each other that was the over arching point he was denying

[solid otter]

Because the void functions outside of a "timeline"

[tropic venture]

yeah it seems to pretty much be that in Reality only one of them exists at a time, but in the Void they're separated

[eager dagger]

Also more to a point I’m sure you know - lore is what we see on screen not what is said in an ama so while that’s great that isn’t what we got on screen

So any of those locations could be a throw down

[obtuse gyro]

Im confused at what youre trying to get at, this is a direct explanation

[eager dagger]

If the lotus does have a deal with the indifference to take our Tenno at some point

[eager dagger]

Game lore is what we get in the game

[obtuse gyro]

like I agree, there are throw down sites, my point of contention is the idea that "DE Changed their minds"

[cinder marten]

what is the indifference gonna do to the tenno anyway

[solid otter]

This also means that Albrecht couldn't have gone back in time, or there would be multiple Albrechts. Which isn't possible there. Unless he... did it when he was was in duviri...?

[eager dagger]

Because?

[solid otter]

.. kill us. Kill our timeline. Kill everyone and everything we love

[cinder marten]

really

[obtuse gyro]

because thats not what happened?

[cinder marten]

that's boring

[eager dagger]

Not a clue but they’ve taken full control before so ….maybe they want to find out what having knee caps is like?

[solid otter]

What, did you want a child to be tortured or something?

[obtuse gyro]

anyways scrolling back to this,

[cinder marten]

what if it's actually something good

plot twist lmao

[obtuse gyro]

given the context of the Lotus saying "not yet" I highly doubt, and heavily disagree with the notion that the lotus made a deal with wally to have us

[solid otter]

Id say the tenno being forced into the indifference's herald is pretty bad. That's what we know what happens to failed operators in other timelines. They get consumed.

[eager dagger]

Isn’t the indifference kinda fugged up and trying to find out what life is about? And just going about it in the worst possible way? Seems Albrect woke him up and he’s been like “wtf” the entire time since

[solid otter]

... he made us kill our parents

[eager dagger]

Old peace cut scene is her saying “not yet”

[tardy sinew]

Does anyone know the full oath of the seven from tnw?

[cinder marten]

if the indifference is not a god but merely a product of conceptual embodiment carried out by entrati then it's basically a newborn child with little grasp of right and wrong yet

well human right and wrong

[wild wind]

eh, we know that's probably wrong

[obtuse gyro]

because in light of what she says in Lotus eaters, shes actively fighting Wally repeatedly.

Going "not yet" is indeed playing off that, by reaffirming that she's denying wally again

[wild wind]

Cuz he's already destroyed timelines

[solid otter]

Oh, but it got Albrecht's childhood name he hasn't heard in literal centuries?

[obtuse gyro]

yeesh, thats a whole dive into the Zariman ARG

[undone lodge]

Yeah it seems to understand human morality and emotions pretty well

[eager dagger]

It seems like he’s just another dimensional being he seems like he had no idea we existed before Albrect

[solid otter]

The indifference got that but didn't sense Albrecht was terrified?

[cinder marten]

because albrecht made the indifference

[tardy sinew]

Where would I find the results of that?

[wild wind]

Orokin Archives

[obtuse gyro]

I mean, if it was born of that terror...

[rancid pilot]

ok having watched the video, it seems like they're begging the question based purely off of Raothe's singular "shitstirrer" hypothetical and trying to connect that to the Lotus saying "not yet", implying there is a time that it would be ok in the future

[solid otter]

Archives mentioned !!

[cinder marten]

your entire subconscious turned into something tangible

[eager dagger]

Plot twist? She makes a deal with Wally during the new war at the end of- that’s what she sees and won’t tell us - and then her saying “not yet” in the indifference voice mixed with her is her saying she needs more time but she will give the Tenno to the indifference?

[eager dagger]

No he woke it up it existed before him but it slept

[cinder marten]

like there are things we don't know about ourselves and the void sees everything when we look into it and just spits all of that back

[solid otter]

Yeah. Still doesn't make sense that Wally didnt realise Albrecht was scared. If he had access to his mind, then there's no real reason to why it didnt realise he was scared.

[solid otter]

.. thats what our drifter thinks.

[wild wind]

Wally also enjoys pain and suffering and seeks to spread it

[eager dagger]

What if it liked that feeling?

[solid otter]

Not what we know so far.

[wild wind]

And is banished by positive emotion and expressions of affection

[eager dagger]

Yes but I think he might be trying to understand and can’t but keeps attempting to

[cinder marten]

that's just another way of saying that he created it into being

[solid otter]

Then... wally is malicious

[wild wind]

Yeah he's not some poor little meowmeow who doesn't know right from wrong

He gets off on watching you kill people

[solid otter]

What, what tagfer thinks? Tagfer doesn't know he made us kill our parents.

[rancid pilot]

Wally KNOW's the pain they're causing

[cinder marten]

because it came from entrati's subconsious, entrati, an orokin

[cerulean kiln]

My 3rd home after the lore channels

[wild wind]

Not according to Eleanor

[obtuse gyro]

wait sorry its actually just this:

By the glory and wisdom of the Seven I give my life. To uphold the sanctity of the thousand legems evermore. To carry the sacred light of our dominion into the deepest dark. In this, we are one.

[cinder marten]

whether he wanted to or not, the void just did its thing

[solid otter]

Albrecht also isn't actively malicious like wally is

[eager dagger]

Think of a new born baby if it has no moral or ethical context - that’s what I think Wally might be and it’s learning through basically satism and maso

[wild wind]

That's what Roathe says and I'm pretty sure he's wrong

[solid otter]

Roathe can be wrong

[cinder marten]

look at the zariman for example, a space vessel that traveled through the void carrying hundreds of people

[solid otter]

He shouldn't even know about the man in the wall

[cinder marten]

all of those psyches and all of those emotions absorbed by the void

[solid otter]

Ehhh.

[wild wind]

it hit a wall first

[tardy sinew]

I'm talking about the part of the oath interrupted and uncaptioned during the quest

[solid otter]

... no it was explicitly our drifter that caused the embodiment of Duviri.

[wild wind]

The wall was already there when they tried to jump

[undone lodge]

But it displays understanding of other things, and its observed enough to know ethical/moral context

[eager dagger]

I vaguely remember something in the logs in the sanctum about how he woke up the indifference and it not understanding? Wally is 💯 bad but idk if Wally understands that he’s bad? Yk what I mean?

[tardy sinew]

Oh thank you!

[obtuse gyro]

I mean, presently roathe is backed by sythel, who learnt from albrecht so

[rancid pilot]

I feel people are taking what Roathe is saying all too seriously, when he's just a guy, he has insights into Orokin society and stuff, but the void stuff is out of his league as much as it is for anyone else

[cinder marten]

i'm not talking about duviri, i'm talking about the zariman as a whole

[eager dagger]

How so? I’m not sure it understands what it’s participating in and might just be getting off on it

[obtuse gyro]

I take what roathe says about wally as in the right direction because:

https://tenor.com/view/dirty-docks-shawty-triflin-shawty-triflin-she-gif-22455514

[eager dagger]

Mainly DE’s writing history of bread crumbing bringing that up specifically seems intentional

[wild wind]

Given what we know about the Murmur from Isleweaver, I'm fairly certain that Wally is entropy

[solid otter]

Well, tbf he likely learned that shit from the operator reports, not of his own choice.

[obtuse gyro]

but the operator report is a fence sitter

[solid otter]

So if that is wrong, then he would be wrong

[eager dagger]

We never win then

[cinder marten]

the more i think about it the void in warframe is like the immaterium in 40k lol

[obtuse gyro]

nah, its a CE cosplaying as something bigger

[solid otter]

Its just the space between... space

[obtuse gyro]

thats the hill I will die on

[solid otter]

Eh I think its fully conceptual embodiment

[wild wind]

Like you can tell Roathe, it's way bigger than any conceptual embodiment

[eager dagger]

No no no no the immaterium is actively malicious

[wild wind]

Albrecht put a face on a facet of the universe

[cinder marten]

nature is violent my friend but not malicious

some might say it's just indifferent

[rancid pilot]

are you telling me, that we're going to be fighting the embodiment of entropy, that indirectly lead to the fall of an ancient civilization, and our protagonist as a former member of the civilization needs to stop the embodiment of entropy with the power of friendship and a member of said ancient civilization (who got his memories erased, and restored by us)||I really had to stretch this one||

[eager dagger]

If it’s entropy we’re fugged we never win against that

[cinder marten]

it's what we feed into it that manifests

[eager dagger]

The chaos gods are Malicious

[wild wind]

Took something that should just be a thing that happens, like gravity, and taught it to choose to grind everything into nonexistence

[solid otter]

I agree with Roathe on that wally was originally CE, but us constantly using his power and using the mutilated fingers gave him more.

[cinder marten]

whether consciously or subconsciously

[obtuse gyro]

Albrecht dressed up his fear as something bigger, and because everyone after was too afraid of the damn unknown thing dressed it up bugger. For all wally's jibbering and jabbering about your "light" I think we should shine a light on this monster to find its just your worn clothes draped over your chair

[solid otter]

Continually added to the embodiment, I guess

[wild wind]

that isn't how conceptual embodiment works tho'

[solid otter]

We don't have many examples on how it works

[cinder marten]

the chaos gods are malicious because the energy they receive is malicious get my point?

[eager dagger]

The more we talk about this the more I can see lotus giving us up she made a deal at the end of the new war and this becomes drifter vs Tenno

After Wally takes our Tenno

[undone lodge]

I mean

you can just look at it’s behaviour in like every piece of content we’ve seen so far

There isn’t a single bit that would indicate that this is actually some developing infant void thing that doesn’t fully understand the world or emotions. The opposite, really

[cinder marten]

that's why entrati is going for the whole love and friendship and forgiveness route to fight the indifference

[rancid pilot]

no, the Chaos gods are straight up malicious, it isn't just the energy they get

[solid otter]

It knows emotions far too well. That's how it uses it against us.

[cinder marten]

roathe is a test if an orokin can be forgiven

because entrati hates himself and that got fed into the void

[solid otter]

Roathe is a substitute for Albrecht in that question.

[eager dagger]

Go back to Albrect logs about waking the indifference

[wild wind]

the point is that defeating Wally has to be something that we can do for the story, because they have plans for after this whole arc of story, but also something that doesn't change the status quo in a single way, meaning the Murmur doen't go away

[undone lodge]

Oh I remember them just fine, and they don’t indicate that at all

[cinder marten]

but it's not if we forgive the orokin but rather if the orokin can forgive themselves

[solid otter]

... the requiem logs, and it doesn't showcase that at all.

[eager dagger]

Some of them do

[solid otter]

No?

[obtuse gyro]

Which ones?

[eager dagger]

Give me a sec I’ll go through them

[solid otter]

The notes do not talk about wally much. Only Albrecht worrying about if he is wally.

The requiem logs do not show any form of sympathy from Wally.

[cinder marten]

slaneesh was manifested and born out of the pure debauchery that the eldar have inflicted

[rancid pilot]

TBF is wally is something as big as being entropy itself, i'd could just always exist, we don't get rid of wally perse, just stop him from messing with reality and us

[undone lodge]

Vapour erupted inward at the gap, but not just from there. For as I rolled my eyes back, I saw the same… a great-steam of scintillation, smoking from my skull. Dumb in awe, I faced toward my chimerical twin. He spoke.

Khra. Time. An old name, unspoken in the centuries since my mother reared me. A soft hiss, soothing as a viper's gaze. "Little Bengel." The other reached out, offering his hand, gliding toward me without moving, as though the distance between us was now collapsing. A confusion, most euphoric, filled my mind. With the shred of wit that remained, I decided that I should run for my life. At once, crazed and frantic, I fled.

[cinder marten]

khorne is the chaos god of war but that can also be seen as self determination

[wild wind]

yeah, exactly. That's the metatextual reason why I don't think Wally can be a conceptal embodiment

The Murmur have to stay in the game.

[solid otter]

Ehh

[wild wind]

which is cheating for the purposes of this discussion

heck the Murmur have a bane mod, even the Sentients don't have that

[cinder marten]

nurgle represents the cycle of life and death in nature

[solid otter]

We definitely kill the ropaloyst or however you spell it, and it still comes back

[obtuse gyro]

Mark my words, wally is just going to be some pathetic thing that really needs human connection because its just a fear taken shape, and that fear drives it to want connection, but its made of crap, so it only knows how to keep lashing out, and that maladaptive coping method is perpetually reinforced the more albrecht fights and recruits fighters against that thing.

Wally is a monster of our design, it can be stopped

[tropic venture]

Sacrificial mods kinda

There's also one for them for Railjack turrets

even tho the only time we face Sentient ships nowadays is in TNW

[wild wind]

depending on how you count it there's more than one ropapolyst

[rancid pilot]

yeah of excess, which isn't necessarily malicious, Elder just did TOO much, of everything
it wasn't they were all torture, and extreme stuff
the Chaos gods have "positive" aspects but by their nature they never act without maliciousness

[obtuse gyro]

also like theres already a whole buncha media out there that DE can draw inspiration from, where a whole faction is reliant on a central entity, and they persist after said central entity is destroyed

hell, destiny has two of them

[wild wind]

look if Warframe starts cribbing from Destiny most of us are bailing

[obtuse gyro]

which are the Taken and the Dread

[rancid pilot]

i wanna be a contrarian and say there must be something worth cribbing, but tbh i can't think of any

[wild wind]

right but they're not literal parts of that thing's body

[solid otter]

Also I don't think Wally can die or we will lose our powers, no?

[obtuse gyro]

but the murmur are excised from wally

[solid otter]

So we gotta put him in a bottle ig

[wild wind]

Unless there's lore I missed they're not?

[solid otter]

Yeah they are fragments

[obtuse gyro]

hell one of the murmur types are extra bullied by the rest

[solid otter]

Murmur are fragments from Wally's whole, thats why they wouldn't count as alien as they are just bits of wally.

[solid otter]

Oh?

[obtuse gyro]

ok no thats misinfo, I wrongly remembered that the severed warden was bullied

[solid otter]

Ima still pretend they're getting bullied bcs its funny

[cinder marten]

yes an excess of malicious things get it

[wild wind]

The Murmur if anything are the Orz

[obtuse gyro]

all their descriptions allude to being separated

[solid otter]

I often like lore for the funny

[obtuse gyro]

all part of the wally whole, but separated

[wild wind]

https://tenor.com/view/orz-starcontrol-gif-16577184958051029345

many fingers

[solid otter]

Again, Lyon just stripping on his own volition for the protoframe serum. That's funny asf.

[cinder marten]

maybe nurgle would be less nasty lookin if there wasn't so much death from all of the war in 40k lmao

[eager dagger]

So the logs that show off Wally being basically infantile is Lohk the poem suggests something that’s doesn’t have emotions , understanding or consequence to universal laws it just exists

Especially “cosmic forms from tangent planes “

[tropic venture]

Marie was just like "No Father Lyon it is absolutely necessary, the uhhh serum needs no obstructions that's definitely it "

[solid otter]

That poem might not even reference wally at all. While there is "its heralds are the stars it fells", which is related to wally, the rest cannot be associated.

[eager dagger]

It’s all about Wally

[tropic venture]

"Carrion hordes trill their profane accords to eldritch plans" almost sounds like the Infested too

[rancid pilot]

That explains Roathe I guess, he was wearing his Grand Carnus whilst getting the serum so he's permenantly fused with it now

[eager dagger]

I’m thinking mummer

[solid otter]

Nah man Marie didn't even do it, he probably saw Marie's clothes fuse to her flesh and went "nope"

[solid otter]

.... do you know what carrion means?

[tropic venture]

Carrion means meat, which the Murmur kinda lack

[eager dagger]

Yes until the strain turns him fully in to Uriel

[eager dagger]

Idk what the mummer is - is there any in universe lore or what they’re made of?

[cinder marten]

they're made of rocks

they're rocky

[tropic venture]

Their rock bases look to be made of Temporal Dust like the Indifferent Gorge, while their limbs are made of the same metal we see on the Zariman and the Void Angels

[solid otter]

Sand of sorts. Silica maybe?

Its not a natural substance

[cinder marten]

they'e made of murmurium

[cinder marten]

elite temporal archimedean

[wild wind]

entropy animating something is horrific

it means that Wally feeds on dead universes

That he gains power from it

[solid otter]

"From brooding gulfs are we beheld by that which bears no name"

Also, where does this suggest any form of infantile action? It just lacks a name. Yk. Like how a lot of eldritch horrors do?

[tropic venture]

It's a contradiction, which fits perfectly

[wild wind]

yup

[rancid pilot]

it makes sense since when the murmur units get killed, they don't become a corpse, they decay instantly into dust

[cinder marten]

not infantile but rather indifferent to human concepts

such as morality

[tropic venture]

it could be that Incarnons "extract" some form of Entropic energy when they kill things, and that's how they charge Void energy

[solid otter]

Wally doesn't care for morality. That's like. Why wally is called "the indifference"

Wally isn't indifferent most of the time

[rancid pilot]

i'd like to add, even if wally originally had no concept of morality upon the first encounter with Albrecht, it was aware of them but did not care for them in future encounters

[solid otter]

Wally gets upset at Albrecht, us and the drifter. That shows wally isn't indifferent.

[tropic venture]

Eleanor describes it as being "so utterly and completely indifferent to my existence", which is something to note as it's different from the whole "emotional indifference" that many people initially read it as

[cinder marten]

imagine if ants by themselves have created societal rules for themselves and you as an outsider it amuses you

[eager dagger]

Makes sense

[solid otter]

.. they do this. Ants are social creatures

[eager dagger]

It’s describing the indifference it beholds us and it has no name

[cinder marten]

we are just tiny dots in this universe

[solid otter]

Yeah so how is it infantile?

[cinder marten]

the void being just happens to be a bigger dot

[solid otter]

I know more than a few people who've had no legal name

[tropic venture]

like "Indifference" in Wally's case is less-so "doesn't feel any emotion" as it is "doesn't consider us as significant"

[eager dagger]

The entirety of the poem says it lacks emotional understanding, universal law understanding and it beholds us that’s pretty infantile

[wild wind]

it's that story about ants praying to humans as gods

[solid otter]

... no? It is indifferent. a lack of emotional understanding isn't indifference.

[eager dagger]

I don’t think it even knew our dimension existed till Albrect woke it up

[eager dagger]

Read the poem

[wild wind]

except the "human" understands the emotions of the ants and enjoys watching them kill each other

[solid otter]

Because you uh. Still feel those emotions. Just don't understand why you feel them.

[tropic venture]

Lack of emotional understanding would be like Rell, not Wally

[cinder marten]

like showing an iphone screen to a fish after you picked them from the water

[eager dagger]

I think it’s hooked on emotion as it doesn’t understand them but likes this hit kinda like drugs

[solid otter]

Exactly

My lack of emotional understanding isn't indifference

[eager dagger]

Think of an infant it can look at you but doesn’t understand much of anything but acts out from instinct

[solid otter]

Ehhh

[tropic venture]

Yeah, that's not indifference

[eager dagger]

And it knows what it likes

[solid otter]

Thats not indifference

[cinder marten]

maybe albrecht's solution is to teach it lol

[solid otter]

Like. At all.

[eager dagger]

I’m not sure the name is what it is

[solid otter]

That was the exact opposite of what he wanted to do

[cinder marten]

like hey wally this here is called friendship

[tropic venture]

indifference is an adult looking at a crying infant and not even thinking about why it's crying

[solid otter]

He wanted to dumb him down and distract him

[eager dagger]

I’d hate that so much

[cinder marten]

look wally i have successfully forgiven myself how does that make you feel

[eager dagger]

Like this thing needs to be put down for the sake of everything and everyone

[wild wind]

"Same way I feel every day, Albrecht: murderously omnicidal!"

[eager dagger]

https://tenor.com/view/sleep-good-night-take-care-gif-11134188868442043999

Wally: stop crying stop crying stop crying

[cinder marten]

we are gonna conceptual embody love and forgiveness into the void and the void will spit out love and forgiveness

[wild wind]

excuse me, forgot my suffixes there

[solid otter]

Nah, wally wouldn't care to try and get them to stop crying. He'd be indifferent to it. Not upset nor annoyed. Indifferent.

[rancid pilot]

I do think perhaps because Albrecht was the first person to contact with Wally,
that might be why it's "weakness" is bonds between people
because Albrecht at the time was so bad at it, it reflected onto Wally

[cinder marten]

that's what i'm saying

[eager dagger]

Him fighting us isn’t indifferent tho- he also guides us to the lotus right before Ballas takes her remember?

[solid otter]

I would say for sure Albrecht had bad relationships before wally tbh

Wally is predominantly why his relationships went to shit

Trauma and wally. Pretty common thing ngl

Well. Minus the wally

[wild wind]

Albrecht had deep-sixed his relationships way before Wally happened

[cinder marten]

it's like trying to defeat a reflection of yourself

[wild wind]

Wally is why Albrecht cut contact with his immediate family

[solid otter]

He was close to his daughter and loid before wally

[wild wind]

Euleria was close to him, less the other way around

[solid otter]

Ehhh

Wouldn't say that

[cinder marten]

no wait you can't just conceptual embody happy things into the void because it'll look like the duviri joy spiral lmao

[wild wind]

Not "nothing" just less

[rancid pilot]

tbh, i wish we knew more about Albrecht before the void stuff, cause we really only know his relationship with Eularia and Loid and that's it

[cinder marten]

you keep yourself happy by just making things go away

and that's not healthy yo

[solid otter]

.... ||dead wife he didn't gaf about bcs it was an arranged marriage.|| We have that

[unborn heart]

guys does John "War" Framer die in the story.

[solid otter]

I do not fault Albrecht for not liking that person ngl.

While it wasn't her fault at all, he has every right to hold resentment to her.

Had a person on tumblr try to tell me that Albrecht wasn't a victim in that situation. Bcs... uh. He was a man. I guess?

[rancid pilot]

i deadass didn't even know that, like I knew biologically he had to have a wife, but like i half believed a crack theory that Eularia was made by gene splicing Loid and Albrecht's DNA

[solid otter]

We wouldn't even need that. Albrecht could've just had a female yuvan once

[cosmic prawn]

Do we actually know anything about Albrecht and Gerivaine beyond that their marriage was arranged and she died? Albrect being detached doesn't mean he didn't care.

[solid otter]

I have thought a lot about this.

[rancid pilot]

you have, but sometimes that is a burden one must bear

[solid otter]

Iirc roathe directly says he didn't care

[solid otter]

I dont wanna think of old men doing it i hate it help

[cosmic prawn]

He says "Removed. Detached. Uninterested. Unimpacted." but he is not inside Albrecht's head

I'd take that with a grain of salt

[cinder marten]

so now roathe is a credible source of information regarding a relationship

[wild wind]

the fact of its existence, yes

The inner thoughts of everyone involved, no

Not even his own

also Albrecht had more than one kid and they aren't accounted for

[rancid pilot]

WHAT

roathe has been holding back on me

[wild wind]

That's a throwaway line from even before 1999

Roathe just had a second one

[cosmic prawn]

Any unaccounted for Orokin were murdered by Tenno until confirmed otherwise. What does Roathe say exactly?

[wild wind]

Albrecht had children

And yes they're absolutely dead

[cinder marten]

it's a big solar system maybe it's like star wars lol

[solid otter]

Sorry to burst the bubble here, but if Roathe says someone didnt seem to care, then they really didnt seem to care. There's a reason Albrecht doesn't mention Euleria's mother. And when he does it's something completely irrelevant. Her eyes are the same. That doesn't mean much.

[cinder marten]

some orokin surely have survived only to die in a different way

[solid otter]

Again, its just "his children" and "Kids", i still think its a writer error

[cosmic prawn]

He says Albrecht saw her the same as everything, yet we know he cared for Loid he was just shit at showing it.\

[solid otter]

Roathe seems to be able to justify any relationship, so the fact he can't do that for Albrecht means something.

[solid otter]

Ehh

Except. Uh. Albrecht very much and very obviously did not treat or see Loid as the same.

Idk why you're insistent on the idea he secretly actually cared about his forced wife.

[cinder marten]

he was his special

[solid otter]

All we know is that she wasn't liked at all by Albrecht.

[cerulean kiln]

Butler with benefits

[solid otter]

So I'll go on that, thank you

[zealous wagon]

It could also be literary flourish, like saying the progeny, up to the present day, and followers of a historical person and their beliefs/scientific discoveries are their “children” or “kids”.

[tight pagoda]

Is there a line on that?

Haven't gotten a chat with that info if it was from a chat

[solid otter]

If we compare the two, his wife doesn't even get a mention by him, not even a name, while he mentions Loid what. 5 times? Loid is in almost every one of his notes, yeah?

[cosmic prawn]

" All save Albrecht. Everything he did, everyone he interacted with, it was as though he viewed it through a section of his beloved seriglass.
Removed. Detached. Uninterested. Unimpacted. Even when Gerivaine died and he was left to raise his little welp of a daughter on his own"
Is all we get about Albrecht and Gerivaine.

[solid otter]

RoatheRank3Convo5

All save Albrecht. Everything he did, everyone he interacted with, it was as though he viewed it through a section of his beloved seriglass.
Removed. Detached. Uninterested. Unimpacted. Even when Gerivaine died and he was left to raise his little welp of a daughter on his own.

And we know he didn't do the same for loid

[cinder marten]

we need to determine if someone is merely speculating or stating fact that can be seen in the videogame, warframe, created by digital extremes inc

[solid otter]

He quite literally treats loid as above him. Above an orokin.

If that's him in love, then he really didnt gaf about Gerivaine

Not even a name drop

Only that Euleria's eyes was like hers

[cerulean kiln]

Albrecht doesn’t even see himself as worthy of Loids love

[solid otter]

Which is mildly true

[cerulean kiln]

Self aware Orokin

[solid otter]

Next time I see someone call him narcissistic, I will just explode

[cosmic prawn]

The only notes we get from Albrecht are from long after she died, considering Euleria still needed 'raising', it's not really proof of anything.

[solid otter]

Nemesis, if i do explode, shove it down Voh's throat for me.

[cerulean kiln]

Albrecht literally did nothing narcissistic or egotistical

[tight pagoda]

Gerivaine literally had vain in her name, smh, no wonder he hated her

[cerulean kiln]

Book against humanity will activate

[cinder marten]

geri vain e

[solid otter]

Genuinely what is the point of this argument

[solid otter]

Thank you Nemesis.

[cosmic prawn]

I disagree that we can say that Albrecht hated being married, that's all

[solid otter]

Ehh

Its clear he didnt like it.

[cosmic prawn]

How?

[solid otter]

Didnt do shit for him

[cinder marten]

objection speculation your honor

[solid otter]

.. he actively did not care. Or appear to care.

Which we know isn't what it's like for Albrecht, when he does love someone

[cinder marten]

what is love

baby don't hurt me

[cosmic prawn]

He did not appear to care about many things, he at least had a positive view of her since the similarity with Eulaeria's eyes is given as a positive.

[solid otter]

I don't see it really as a positive or a negative tbh

"She has her mother's eyes" can mean a lot.

[cerulean kiln]

Mothers eyes can be a good or bad thing

[solid otter]

I've been told I sound like my dad, and you'd think that would be a good thing, right?

It wasn't.

[rancid pilot]

quick question, what is the "thermostat" counter for Roathe do?

[solid otter]

His endings iirc

[cosmic prawn]

Positive good negative bad

[rancid pilot]

well I pray that i got that up

i do not want to reset him and spend another week or 2 doing this again 😭

[cinder marten]

if you get the bad ending you would have to reset meaning you also lose relationship with marie or lyon oh noes

[rancid pilot]

i don't mind that as much, since i'm trying to romance Roathe, but the damn flowchart for Roathe is A MAZE

[solid otter]

He and Loid go out of their way to piss off the orokin. High chances that they flaunted their relationship too.

[rancid pilot]

I wonder how common relationships between orokin and archimedeans were, considering we know of at least 2 of them

[solid otter]

Loid wasn't an Archimedian

He was an Archimedian assistant

Two different things

[rancid pilot]

I must be mis-remembering that

[cinder marten]

assistant to the archimedian

[rancid pilot]

right Otak was the Archimedian

[solid otter]

Said... "Archimedian" was Albrecht. So we can take that in two ways

[cinder marten]

the nasa scientists

[solid otter]

Either Albrecht was that pathetic in the eyes of the orokin that he close to an Archimedian, or orokin people can be an Archimedian

[cinder marten]

the prejudice part is too on the nose

[cerulean kiln]

Not like Albrecht could get punished for it

[uncut solar]

Orokin says "I want to play the role of an archimedian"

"Whatever floats your boat, you look kinda dumb" said the rest

[cinder marten]

what if an orokin just thought the void was cool and wanted to study it

[uncut solar]

[cinder marten]

who's gonna stop them

[solid otter]

This is just Albrecht

[cosmic prawn]

Albrecht pretty clearly had negative social standing, even after his Void success elevated him. Some of that was because he deliberately didn't care about all the social ceremony the Orokin seemed to love.

[rancid pilot]

it's weird cause it's not like the Orokin didn't do science, Ballas made the warframes and Father made the necramechs, what made them so different from Archimedeans

[cerulean kiln]

Loid trained to assist Archimedeans then got assigned to a non Archimedean

[cinder marten]

can't it be both lol

[cosmic prawn]

It's literrally just caste

[solid otter]

.. as far as we are aware, it was over him being a failure, not sure on the lack of social norms

Over all, he was pretty normal for an orokin

[cosmic prawn]

Archimedeans weren't Orokin, and thus were automatically lesser.

[solid otter]

Can't even say the lack of a long arm was something particularly odd, Roathe lacks one too

[cinder marten]

it's a cosmetic choice

[solid otter]

Ik, its just a trend Albrecht never abided to

Even after the void incident he looked a bit... rough around the edges

[cinder marten]

everyone wore jordans in the empire

[cerulean kiln]

Tbh Infestation could’ve took it

[solid otter]

This portrait is absolutely after the void incident. So he still.. uh. Dresses like he's homeless

He also seemed to have gained weight after the void incident

[rancid pilot]

nah, he got that shit on

[cerulean kiln]

He is homeless
Look who’s the Drifter now

[solid otter]

His clothes are torn wdym 😭

[eager dagger]

Wasn’t his skin fried off at so point t and that’s why he’s discolored now and no long arm?

[solid otter]

Nup.

[cinder marten]

archimedians are just the scientists and the orokin are the ruling class it's not that complicated

[rancid pilot]

it's a fashion choice /j

[solid otter]

This portrait and a kimchat by roathe suggests otherwise.

[violet cipher]

whats the chances that this will have a impact on anything

[cerulean kiln]

0%

[eager dagger]

Which one?

[cosmic prawn]

I think it's just the messy artstyle and some rough shadowing

[eager dagger]

Idk what they’re doing with that anymore

[solid otter]

RoatheRank1Convo3

"A voice I recognized - but not a face. It was Albrecht, but not the one I knew."

He recognised Albrecht's voice, but not his face. That suggests he didnt recognise the 1999 version over the blue version, as Albrecht was undoubtedly shown in the peak of the empire.

[solid otter]

....no

As an artist, its not. Its torn.

If it was supposed to be intact. There wouldn't be huge gaps.

[eager dagger]

That’s what I’m saying I think there’s some lore his skin was badly burned loud nursed him back to health and that’s why he’s discolored looks different now

[solid otter]

.... he kidnapped Roathe long after the void incident.

[cinder marten]

ballas married an archimedian and they couldn't do jack

[solid otter]

His skin being blue, which is shown in the Zariman portrait- that has VOID specific scarring meaning its post void incident means he became the white fella later on.

So not from the void incident.

[cosmic prawn]

It's either body sculpting or a last Continuity, the final one mentioned in his notes.

[solid otter]

Idk if you can see it well, but there's blue in the scarring around his eyes. You know. The place the void harmed greatly.

[cosmic prawn]

These might be higher quality

[cerulean kiln]

You even have the Duviri stuff that mentions the same appearance as the portrait

[solid otter]

Danke

[solid otter]

Yuppers

While it is just hair, it still is more consistent to bluebrecht over Adam Sandler-Albrecht

[cinder marten]

maybe it's just cosmetic like the somatics on our operator

[cerulean kiln]

He only changed his skin colour and hair to not look as weird in 1999

And Cathedral

[solid otter]

Aren't the somatics also the result of void damage or void contamination 😭

[cinder marten]

who knows maybe it's just a cool tattoo

[solid otter]

Ehhh

[cerulean kiln]

Somatics help with Void connection

[solid otter]

Thats a stretch.

[solid otter]

Mm. Figured.

[cinder marten]

so it is a cosmetic but has a purpose

not a result of something

[cerulean kiln]

Our chair was a somatic chair which we don’t need after Teshin helped us get full transference back

[mental ice]

https://tenor.com/view/warframe-warframeballas-ballas-gif-903064965064944974

Hmmm so many theories...