spoiler-chat

[reef compass]

So thats what Salad next chapter will be about then

[thick jolt]

Combine that with mimics and you get sentient skinstealers

[mental ice]

Infestation went against basic Orokin empire principles:

• Wasn't controlled.
• Wasn't achieving overwhelming win.

[undone lodge]

I just want to know what it meant. Him and the rest of the Orokin’s

We got it with the Family and then none else, even for our own name

[thick jolt]

yeah.. that's why warframes were shelved until the tenno

or rather buried i guess

[undone lodge]

Speaking of shelving

[reef compass]

K-Drives

Sorry carry on

[thick jolt]

neckless children?

[undone lodge]

Petros/Father’s Necramech project getting shut down early is even worse after Roathe’s reveal that they deadass had a whole “fleet”

[mental ice]

Exactly, the Orokin I guess was built upon basic foundations and principles and the executors didn't like to deviate from them, making them pretty much stagnant

[wild wind]

that just seems logical, it was power politics

he doesn't seem to have a backer among the Seven

And he was married to Euleria

[undone lodge]

Right but like

Imagine getting to that stage, a whole fleet of your creations being assembled, being so proud and they just tell you. “Yeah we don’t like them. Going in the bin”

[solid otter]

Oh speaking of.

Now we know Albrecht did indeed have a wife.

||I lowkey suspect she wasn't a orokin.||

[undone lodge]

“Can I at least have them ba-“

“Too late, should’ve asked sooner”

[mental ice]

Weren't we aware that Grandmother (Dagath) was that since a while ago now?

[wild wind]

That's just Orokin, they really were just that petty

[solid otter]

She...uh. ||died. For one. This mf straight up died||

[undone lodge]

Shes not his wife

[wild wind]

Grandmother isn't Albrecht's wife

[undone lodge]

Shes Father’s mother

[cerulean kiln]

Being married to Albrecht makes her Orokin

[solid otter]

Grandmother is Father's mother.

[wild wind]

Correct

[mental ice]

Ah lol my mistake xD

regardless, if he had daughter, he would have a wife like you guys say 😄

[solid otter]

Ik, but like. She clearly didn't ||get access to continuity||

[wild wind]

bingo

[thick jolt]

not necessarily

[wild wind]

she did

[solid otter]

Ehh, it was up in the air if he had a partner or an actual wife.

[wild wind]

She was Orokin, she had access

[undone lodge]

Just to be clear, Grandmother was certainly an Orokin, has (or had rather) the fancy name and Roathe comments on it

[thick jolt]

having children doesn't exactly necessitate marriage

[cerulean kiln]

Or she just left Albrecht and was killed sometime in the purge

[solid otter]

Nup, it was early on, remember?

[mental ice]

Technically, Albrecht mentions only his daughter, helping him in lab with the void research, so doubtful he had access to continuity before he puts stars within reach. Perhaps she has already passed away or left the guy

[solid otter]

||Thats why Albrecht had to raise his daughter alone. Roathe says she died when Euleria was young||

[cerulean kiln]

He raised his daughter alone but that still means she could've left him after giving birth

[solid otter]

Ehh, he was still a orokin

[mental ice]

That would imply status, no? He seems like he was kind of without much resources or expectations of him

[solid otter]

She was also like.

Given to him?? Which is a weird thing as a whole

[undone lodge]

They all had Continuity

Thats the Orokin’s defining thing

[mental ice]

was it stated Albrecht had that before going into the void?

[wild wind]

yes

[solid otter]

High chances he did

[wild wind]

He'd taken it before

[undone lodge]

Doesn’t need to be, hes Orokin, so he gets to do Continuity, thats how it works

[solid otter]

And we know it wasn't post void incident

[undone lodge]

Its not something you earn or achieve, it’s your inherent privilege

[mental ice]

I know he did state it AFTER his trip, and that at some point he refused it. He could have advanced to being recognized as Orokin AFTER he got wally's fingers

[solid otter]

Unlikely

[wild wind]

he didn't

[cerulean kiln]

He didn't even give up on it until sometime after the incident

[wild wind]

He mentions that his drive to open the void was to keep the empire going

I forget the exact wording but there were a bunch of "ours" in there

So he was Orokin and had taken Continuity

[mental ice]

yes, but he could have been lower status than orokin and get that status because of his achievments

[wild wind]

Doesn't read like it

[solid otter]

So like. Arranged marriage. Lady probably died in childbirth. Albrecht has an older child.

Curious Curious

[undone lodge]

The Entrati are spoken of as an established house, if not the most prestigious pre-Void trip

[reef compass]

Wasn't void research for ftl travel?

[feral garnet]

Daklo sentinel skin when?

[wild wind]

originally yes

[undone lodge]

If they were “upstarts” Roathe would no doubt have some comment or another to make

[mental ice]

Consider, if he had a status of Orokin, why would he even go and dive into the the void himself? He would be rich enough to have slaves or employes, but he didn't.

[wild wind]

because he was considered a crackpot

for believing the Void could work like that

[solid otter]

Albrecht wasn't a normal orokin, but he was one

[undone lodge]

…have you even listened to the Requiems and read the notes?

[wild wind]

also Deimos is the Entrati ancestral home

[undone lodge]

He explains why there

[solid otter]

He was a little crazy

[reef compass]

He was clinically sane obviously

[mental ice]

I did, all of them in fact, it doesn't name him as orokin directly, we assume he was one, but he might have been promoted to that because of his void discovery. It is unknown if it was his first skin before the discovery of void

[wild wind]

He was Warframe Doc Brown

[cerulean kiln]

He was driven by humiliation which made him bitter and reckless

[undone lodge]

Form. My departure was a day less than any other. When I stepped inside the Bell, I saw no crowd through its seriglass. No sceptical onlookers. No regal sendoff. They all had given up on me and my paradoxical formulations. The wasted years had all shown the Void to be just that. Nothing. No energy. No entanglement. No form. To space-faring ambitions, a dead end. On the day, my laboratory was mostly vacant of witnesses; most of all, of expectation. Only my sluggish attendants, my sagacious kavat Kalymos, and, of course, my daughter. I had raised her alone, but with inconsistent vigour. In those eyes, her mother's, I did see a terrible reflection. Of a man that did not exist. A brave and principled man about to make history. In truth, he was a Void himself. An outcast, a joke, a nothing. Driven by my humiliation. Failure had made me bitter and reckless. I would dive into the depths myself to prove them all wrong. I gave the signal. My daughter grasped the lever.

[wild wind]

Yeah, he was Orokin

[mental ice]

Could have been as well archimedian

[wild wind]

He'd just blown several fortunes and his reputation on his crackpot theory

[reef compass]

Yeah void research was getting shutdown afaik and he did what all (scifi)scientists does... jump right in xD

[wild wind]

He wasn't though

[cerulean kiln]

He was an Orokin Scientist not Archimedian

Well still is

[reef compass]

Maybe thats what the "can the orokin ever be forgiven" question means

[wild wind]

Albrecht is doing a funny

[reef compass]

Albrecht being pushed by them to "meet" Wally

[solid otter]

He wants to know if he himself can be forgiven for his actions. Which is lowkey a reasonable thing

[wild wind]

Mmmm maybe

Albrecht is seeding peace and tolerance across the pre-Orokin timeline to try and weaken Wally that way

[mental ice]

Hard to tell, the game never stated his status within the orokin empire prior to void discovery or after. I am still surprised he did not become an Executor 🤔 with that achievment, since the guy literally put stars within reach

[solid otter]

Which Roathe opposes

[wild wind]

Roathe's stance is somewhat more complicated

Because [kim spoiler] ||he was trying to kill all the Orokin during the Old War out of genuine principle||

[solid otter]

He doesn't think he should be punished

[cerulean kiln]

He wouldn't have accepted it if he was offered as that would give him much less freedom

[mental ice]

What did albrecht even get for his achievement, a pat on the back? 🤣

[solid otter]

.. the whole of deimos

[reef compass]

A whole planet for his family yeah

[undone lodge]

Considering how, aside from the points we’ve brought up. He acts, is treated and is spoken of as if he’s always been Orokin, and someone who identifies with it

[reef compass]

But... didnt he have that already?

[cerulean kiln]

He already had Deimos though

[solid otter]

Funding

[wild wind]

Fame, fortune, respect, a place in history

[mental ice]

But Orokin as a status or "Orokin" as part of "Orokin empire" because those aren't same

[reef compass]

Looking the other way I guess lol

[cerulean kiln]

What he got was the Orokin hating him a little less

[wild wind]

Then he went crazy in a different way

[undone lodge]

Orokin as status

[cerulean kiln]

He got a statue

[solid otter]

He was a orokin. All depictions of Albrecht shows he is one

[reef compass]

He already participated in Continuity though

[mental ice]

True, there are paintings 🤔

Forgot about those

[undone lodge]

Yeah?

[solid otter]

Painting, statues, requiem logs

[undone lodge]

Did you mean to reply to someone else

That doesn’t contradict what I said

[reef compass]

And stopped after the Void experience yeah

[cerulean kiln]

His family wouldn't be blue if he weren't Orokin

[solid otter]

Exactly

Especially if the "wife" was a commoner like i suspect she is

[mental ice]

Well, Ballas did romance Margulis and she was of lower status, so Albrecht's wife might have been like that as well. If he was Orokin, no one would tell him no (apart from those of higher status)

[cerulean kiln]

Plus Son always says our time had come which meant the Orokin

[floral badge]

New daddy in town

[solid otter]

Thing is, Albrecht never loved her.

We see it with Loid, that he didn't care who he loved, but he didn't love her

He didn't even care when ||she died||

[cerulean kiln]

Ballas actually did love Margulis until Margulis had children and loved something more than himself

[mental ice]

That confirmed anywhere? 🤔 KIM logs can vary depending how you pursue convos

[solid otter]

She was "given" to him

[solid otter]

Roathe kimchat about her, id pull it up but my internet is being dogshit

[solid otter]

Orokin people as a whole, don't get "given" to people.

[mental ice]

Ah, didn't get that KIM chat then, but alright, makes sense. Unsure if Albrecht loves Loid though, seems like Loid was just there as something to 'ground him' after he was broken, then again Albrecht is Orokin, Rothe nails pretty well how self centered narcissists they all are

[solid otter]

Albrecht absolutely loves loid

[cerulean kiln]

Albrecht admits to loving Loid

[solid otter]

If he didnt, the whole thing in the sanctum between the two vessels wouldn't have worked

[mental ice]

Saying words and actually feeling them are two different things, but I will concede he might believe he does

[solid otter]

Albrecht often laments about how he cannot be worthy of Loid

[cerulean kiln]

How it's described is feeling them

[solid otter]

He talks about never being able to tell Loid he loves him

[cerulean kiln]

He literally says love shot up from me or something

[solid otter]

Well, never saying the words Loid so desperately needed to hear.

[mental ice]

To me it seems Albrecht didn't trust Loid with a lot, so I don't know if he does love Loid, I absolutely agree Loid loves Albrecht though, for all the failures the man has

[solid otter]

"Blameless love bled out from me"

Or something like that

[cerulean kiln]

Albrecht was willing to leave the labs to keep Loid safe

[mental ice]

Yet Albrecht also did not figure till much later that it is MITW weakness

[cerulean kiln]

That's not something you do for someone you don't love

[solid otter]

People read it as abandoned Loid, but that comes from biased characters

[cerulean kiln]

Still left his home to keep Loid safe

That again isn't something you do for someone you don't love

[mental ice]

Before leaving the lab and escaping to 1999, I doubt Albrecht was aware that love was a way to stop the indifference. He did leave to keep loid safe but also because he knew he was being the target of the MITW. So he went where it couldn't easily pursue.

[cerulean kiln]

Whether he did or didn't doesn't matter

[mental ice]

At this point in time, it is possible he does love Loid of course, hence why he never spoke what Loid needed to hear earlier. Perhaps his trip to 1999 made him realize it

[solid otter]

I fully expect that Albrecht figured out the indifference's weakness to love right in the interrogation scene

[mental ice]

Agreed

[cerulean kiln]

When he did also doesn't matter when asking if he truly loved Loid

[solid otter]

Mhm

Albrecht just struggles with forming connections because he knew wally liked to break them

[mental ice]

Question is, if he does love Loid though, like sincerely, because if he knows it is a weakness, then technically that would make him immune to MITW manipulations but he still escapes from it.

[solid otter]

To admit he loves loid is to give wally ammunition

[mental ice]

Loid feelings are pretty clear for Albrecht, unsure what Albrecht really feels. He seems like a man who has no time for love and would put it on back burner

[solid otter]

He does love him. He does show it and they do have time for it, just in later years he couldn't have time.

[wild wind]

not immune

And it makes both of them a target because Wally wants to break those bonds

[mental ice]

Again, I am unsure he does, so far his actions are all calculated, there was no single action that would just be Albrecht pursuing love instead of a goal to stop MITW or other goal. He claims he left because Loid wouldn't be safe, but again, he might as well have been saving himself and buying himself time to figure MITW out

[wild wind]

that is also true, actually

[mental ice]

He is an Orokin, as Rothe puts it

[wild wind]

But he could have taken Loid with him

Left the sequence to Necraloid entirely

[mental ice]

Exactly, if 1999 was safe, why not take Loid with him?

[solid otter]

No he couldn't

The whole point was to get the man in the wall to look away from Loid

[wild wind]

Because 1999 is safe because until Wally actually reaches there

[wild wind]

that's what I mean

[mental ice]

Loid words "I smashed the casket for nothing, it followed him anyway!"

[solid otter]

So... Loid going with Albrecht still puts him at higher risk...

[wild wind]

Wally's main target is Albrecht

Wally left the labs alone after Albrecht left, until you found the Grimoire

[mental ice]

I think the goal of Albrecht was to get away from MITW, not to save loid really

[solid otter]

Nup

[wild wind]

both are true

[solid otter]

Ehh

[mental ice]

That could be true 🤔

[wild wind]

He left because the labs were unsafe for him, and left Loid because the labs will be safer after

[solid otter]

It was primarily to distract Wally from Loid until the completion of the kalymos sequence

[cerulean kiln]

The goal was getting Wally to follow Albrecht which half worked until it didn't which is Whispers

[tough vine]

Tenno, it's me the devil. I'm here to convince you to do sin.

[wild wind]

literally the end of Old Peace

[mental ice]

I think Albrechts main goal was to stop MITW, but yeah, Albrecht does state about loid that if he didn't left that Loid would be a target.

[wild wind]

"They're laughing at you up there, kiddo."

[solid otter]

Loid is a target

Wally doesn't like people being connected, that's his weakness

[mental ice]

MITW doesn't care for Loid, it wants Albrecht. Loid was a means to get to him

[wild wind]

Just not the main target, yeah

[undone lodge]

Sin? Nah, ts is virtuous

15. How many principal Orokin Virtues are there?
    A. Three

B. Seven (correct)

[solid otter]

But that doesn't mean wally wouldn't kill Loid given the option

Wally may even be responsible for the family falling apart

[mental ice]

Yeah, I think MITW might just do that, like in Whispers, so it can gloat later in front of Albrecht that Loid died.

[solid otter]

I think DE won't kill Loid

Albrecht is more likely to die imo

[cerulean kiln]

Already did

[solid otter]

Especially with Roathe's deal

They're probably gearing to kill off Albrecht

[mental ice]

They could actually 🤔 It would make sense to crush Albrecht like this and give Wally a win, besides Loid is a secondary character who is sympathetic enough but not close enough to us

[wild wind]

they could still do it, KIM is secondary canon

[solid otter]

Who is prepared to bleed for his actions.

[solid otter]

Ehhh

[cerulean kiln]

Isleweaver had a dead Loid thus Loid has died

[solid otter]

Apparently the kim system isn't even written by folk at DE

[wild wind]

also, once again laughing over Nihil not being an executor and DE going in and changing the KIM stuff in Old Peace

[mental ice]

A villain is only a threat if it actually scores meaningful win, the players wouldn't care much if MITW killed albrecht

[undone lodge]

I hope they don’t. “Man dies trying to redeem himself” is such an overdone cliche

[solid otter]

I think this is exactly what is gonna happen lol

[mental ice]

nah, DE haven't been this cliche so far

[solid otter]

Its gonna feel a little unsatisfying

[wild wind]

The primary author is a contractor yes, but she runs everything by the staff and has directions about what to write from them

And heck even DE makes mistakes, so

[cerulean kiln]

I wonder if Roathe is trying to redeem himself

[solid otter]

He doesn't wanna, but he's gonna

[undone lodge]

Lord forbid you actually go all in on it and write someone being “forgiven” through anything but their own death and have them and those they’ve wronged actually confront the issues

[wild wind]

up to you to convince him to try

[solid otter]

Its the easiest way out tbh

I don't want Albrecht to die, purely for Loid's sake

[mental ice]

DE will definitely end one of them though, just to give Wally a meaningful win I think

If Loid dies, Albrecht gets a big character development arc, if Albrecht dies, nothing much happens 🤔

[wild wind]

I kinda think that the end will be Albrecht merging with Wally

so he'll be dead for all intents and purposes, except when he's around for the plot

[cerulean kiln]

They already are the same person

Albrecht said it himself while afraid

[solid otter]

I think Albrecht is gonna die with wally

[wild wind]

Right, but there's farther that can go

[solid otter]

Mhm. Merged and Albrecht ends himself?

[wild wind]

Also Wally can't actually die as long as the game keeps going because >Murmur

[wild wind]

no, takes their battle into the Void

[mental ice]

But that would be cliche... I think the "anomaly" that keeps operators tied to warframes which was mentioned at being in Tau will play key role

[wild wind]

that's just kuva

[undone lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/jujutsu-kaisen-mahito-itadori-yuji-yuji-itadori-i’m-you-gif-3829236877819562557

[cerulean kiln]

Know what

I'm gonna use my Aklex Prime on Albrecht then I'm gonna CE Wally dead

[wild wind]

or wait they said it was radiation

so, something that has the effect of kuva

[mental ice]

Unique radiation

Which is in tau

[wild wind]

In the World Seeders

[cerulean kiln]

Is Wally even weak to radiation or just Murmur?

[wild wind]

What's the difference

The Murmur is Wally

actually lol that's totally it

[mental ice]

Not weak to radiation, but if it can keep operator tied to warframe (perma transference into body) then that means it could potentialy give a void entity a permanent body we could kill

[wild wind]

Radiation and now a special radiation

[cerulean kiln]

What if the real radiation was Love all along

[mental ice]

Power of love, friendship is magic

[wild wind]

I mean the group that attacked the World Seeder in the CYOA wasn't loving it

So, definitely not

The radiation is pretty clearly another idea of Albrecht's for killing Wally, like the Cavia were

[mental ice]

But that radiation keeps void entity in body (like operators in waframe) so they can die I guess, since all that group that attacked the world seed in CYOA died

[cerulean kiln]

Can't remember but did Albrecht have the nuke just to escape or to attack Wally?

[undone lodge]

https://youtu.be/ZOynq5Pu7sc

[undone lodge]

Both

It was to escape and get the Indifference out

[mental ice]

In 1999 what Albrecht wanted was to expel murmur somehow 🤔 He did want the nuke to go off, but it seems drifter saving the hex had similar effect

[wild wind]

lock Wally out

iirc it wasn't about leaving, he says that was already in place

[undone lodge]

Our only means of escape… our only hope to contain this horror I have created… will require a spark of energy rare in this timeline. You know what this means

[mental ice]

This. But then again, we DO stope the nuke by saving hex and they succeed in stopping it. So this part confuses me a bit, if the nuke doesn't go off, then how how do they escape? XD

[wild wind]

Albrecht leaves when the nuke goes off

by the time the loop starts he's gone

[mental ice]

Ah... that means it goes off in ONE timeline, but the rest is just us looping with stopping it

[wild wind]

until it's stopped, at which point it stays stopped

[mental ice]

Eternalism be: The nuke went off, the nuke did not went off, both are true

[wild wind]

no

[real niche]

It's not that it goes off in a timeline, it's that it goes off the first time loop Drifter interferes with, and then we stop that from happening "later" when we loop again

[wild wind]

we alter the start of the loop

oh god we played it on the stack

I hate MtG

[mental ice]

Yeah I get that, and the first time it goes, Albrecht escapes. Which is why Albrecht is not part of the loop

[real niche]

Which doesn't need Eternalism to explain is what I was trying to point at

[thick jolt]

People try to chalk it up to eternalism a bit too easily

[wild wind]

Nothing in WF needs eternalism to explain

[mental ice]

Yes, and I guess Drifter is able to switch freely between 1999 and his own timeline, since he does visit Le Cathedrale

[wild wind]

even the Drifter

[thick jolt]

The 1999 loop isnt a separate timeline really

[real niche]

1999 is in the same timeline as the Origin System, but yes

[wild wind]

it's just year 1999

with a timeloop

so it's constantly being updated

[mental ice]

yeah, a repeated constantly year 1999 which drifter has access to, but is not restricted to

[wild wind]

this is why Archimedia happens, the loop is breaking time just a little bit

[plush swan]

Eternalism is the idea that the past and future exist in the same manner that the present exists, which is why you can visit them.

The whole alternate timelines thing is something that is considered a consequence of that, and Kaya seems to have some method of measuring alternate timelines.

I don't think we've visited the future yet, though, so I don't think we've disproved the "growing block" model of the universe.

[wild wind]

Alternate timelines are theoretical for the reason you mention

They exist but you can only ever be where you are

[plush swan]

Kaya says a bunch about alternate timelines and Peely Pix in ETA

[wild wind]

right, they're measurable but not visitable

[plush swan]

Ah

[mental ice]

hm...now that I think about it, the Albrecht / Loid dies thing might not actually be the aim. It could be: Operator / Drifter dies, choose one.

[wild wind]

for gameplay reasons that's unlikely

[mental ice]

Not if it's the 'ending'

Technically stopping Wally IS the ending

[wild wind]

No, they have plans for beyond Wally

[thick jolt]

Nah they wouldnt make a character they sell comestics for die

[mental ice]

Confimed info? 😮

[wild wind]

yes

[mental ice]

Then I stand corrected

[wild wind]

They have plans for the next ten years of Warframe

[mental ice]

Would founders even be playing 25 years post release of the game? XD

It's a whole new generation

[wild wind]

you'll have to ask them

but the whole idea of a live service game is to be around basically forever

[thick jolt]

Ophiucus certainly seems to return often enough lol

[mental ice]

Technically yes, but they might entrap themselves. Right now they have playerbase, but they keep adding new game modes and nodes, if active playerbase ever starts to dwindle, that's going to be problem if it keeps getting bloated up

[wild wind]

Doesn't really work that way for live service games

[thick jolt]

Also they are constantly looking at that too

[wild wind]

It's an interesting genre because of how it works but games "dry up" when there's no new content to do

[mental ice]

Can't say I am aware, I do sit in gamedev myself, but live service is out of my field of expertise

[thick jolt]

They recently reshufled some planets, cleared up some requirements, hell even the gameplay access for the new gamemodes

[mental ice]

Yeah, they are de-grinding the game nowadays 🤔

[thick jolt]

Yeah, as rebb said in an interview they cant just add stuff, they gotta reevaluate the time the game requires every so often

[wild wind]

Ah, this is just from reading Gameindustry blogs and following people who work in the live service space

but basically you need to be doing ongoing development on the early game and the endgame to keep a playerbase healthy

Vets are always going to leave once they decide they're done

[thick jolt]

Yup

Also warframe kinda always had a bit of a ciclical nature

[wild wind]

They burn out, reach a new stage in their lives, die, get bored

[mental ice]

True, though DE are the only company that pursues 'proper' path to live service, most companies just push out paid content

And never look back at what they released prior

[thick jolt]

Even when people take breaks they often return so the playerbase has always fluctuaded

[wild wind]

that's a bit of an exaggeration but I accept the spirit of it

DE's mostly lucky

[mental ice]

Wouldn't call it luck, ahve been playing since fouder packs were available (stupid me never purchased). They worked hard to get where they are nowadays

[wild wind]

lucky that Tencent bought them instead of Sony, lucky that they started doing live service at the right time

[thick jolt]

Fair they also got the right people in the right positions

[wild wind]

Not denying that, but there are plenty of devs that did similar things and it didn't work out

Doing the work is step 1

Step 2 is getting lucky

[thick jolt]

Step 3 learning?

[mental ice]

They literally put everything on their last chance to keep it alive, I know that, but they have also been doing a lot of work by playing with community, keeping the streams up etc. I recall times when it was just rebb doing those streams

[wild wind]

yup!

[thick jolt]

Yeah

But like captain said, imagine if they were prlurchased by sony

Oof

[mental ice]

I despise investors of any kind so yeah I can imagine 🤣

[wild wind]

but like, they could have done that and someone could have gotten terminal cancer during development

(rest in power Mynki)

[thick jolt]

Minki was amazing

His work still is

[mental ice]

Last time I had an investor for my own title, it ended with me walking out of the door after someone who was supposed to 'pay money to see my idea' decided they have bunch of ideas and started throwing cliches. Personal opinion, but investors who suddenly want to be creators because they throw money are the worst 😅

[wild wind]

Or like, the week before they released a major Warframe expansion Bethesda could have announced Elder Scrolls 6 was coming out

[mental ice]

Also agree about Mynki, he was amazing

[thick jolt]

At this rate i believe bethesda would announc starfield 2 before es6

[wild wind]

Oh yeah absolutely, they're clowns

but the point I'm making is that plenty of devs make amazing passion projects like Warframe and don't succeed

so yeah, luck

[mental ice]

True, very true. Gamedev requires a lot of knowledge, took me years to learn and sadly there's no one who will 'teach you' why prototype is important

[wild wind]

absolutely

[mental ice]

Most aspiring gamedevs (mostly indie gamedevs) simply fail because they have no prior knowledge about lots of things. Having idea or a dream isn't enough. Budget is a variable but good games came out with minimal one (stardev valley), so money is never guarantee. Its about working 'smart' not 'hard' and knowing how to make a vertical slice (main gameplay loop) which in case of warframe is simple formula

[wild wind]

well, or they fail because there's something like 50 new games released every day

no one has time to play all the games that release

[mental ice]

That's why creativity is important. The only thing that limits creativity is imagination and that has no limit. But many people who have money develop the game without experience of what they aim for, or no idea or multiple other reasons. I myself have once spent 4+ additional years making a browser based game because me and my friend never made prototype which resulted in retracing steps quite a lot

[dire slate]

I feel like Uriel's ultimate shouldn't have an energy cost, considering you have to charge it with the other three skills. Idk, might just be me.

[still lava]

.

[undone lodge]

.

[cerulean kiln]

.

[livid glen]

.

[mental ice]

.

[solid otter]

.

[weary smelt]

if you finish the descendia all the way can you still run it again to get less resources from chests and stuff?

[wild wind]

yes

[weary smelt]

sick

[reef compass]

Oh cmon still no ||Lyon on KIM||

[fading current]

Dang it

[reef compass]

actually uh

[frigid canopy]

Okay, without spoiling how it goes; What will happen to Roathe if I jack his "thermostat" up in my chats?

He's not gonna kill anyone, right?

[reef compass]

uh... ||I just got contacted by Lyon after talking with Marie|| !

[obtuse gyro]

Well, in order to avoid spoilers, Imma just do a quick check are you religious irl?

[frigid canopy]

nope, I respect those who are, but I don't follow any faith

[obtuse gyro]

dang okay that makes this a smidgen harder

uuuuh

ah I got it, sometimes you need some heat to cook an egg

[frigid canopy]

I understand things like the Second Coming, the Rapture, that sorta thing

[obtuse gyro]

but do you know the road to emmaus

aint even sure I spelt that right

[frigid canopy]

No? I'm gonna look into that now

[reef compass]

well today's talk with Roathe was disappointingly short for me? huh

[frigid canopy]

Is he supposed to symbolize Jesus in this passage? Or is that ||Entrati||?

[lunar adder]

lowkey feel bad for lyon
I walk up to him and apparently someone else has the sprodling ephemera so there's just a bunch of sprodlings bouncing all over his table 😭

[reef compass]

at least there's no Vaporis leaving snakes all over the table

[tight pagoda]

YIPPEE!

[obtuse gyro]

neither, he's supposed to be one of the goobers walking

"did not our hearts burn"

[lunar adder]

OH NO LOL

[solid otter]

How horrifically ominous

[lunar adder]

🤝 gg let's go

[frigid canopy]

oh okay. As long as Roathe doesn't snap and kill anybody, I'll get that thermostat up lol

I don't wanna piss him off, tho. He has some really funny lines when he's chill

[lone axle]

oh no he signs his texts he's too cute 😭

[fiery turret]

Is the entire point of Marie's Kim convo is just to convince her Entrati isn't a saint?

[obtuse gyro]

or make her double down

see how you play it

[fiery turret]

All my texts towards her have been red text most the time,if it isn't it's because I called Entrati a lil liar and abandons his family

[solid otter]

I think the best option is to allow her to acknowledge the good he's done but to recognise that he isn't the best person.

[solid otter]

Well
Yeah. Because thats the wrong choice. You got the wrong interpretation to what happened with Albrecht

[fiery turret]

Interesting.
I'll try that then

[wild wind]

the chemistry system works a bit differently, you basically always get chemistry

[solid otter]

Albrecht was kinda forced to leave, he didn't want to.

[lunar adder]

let me spoiler that

DE...the placement- please
(Marie's room captura scene)

[frigid canopy]

😉

thank you, that has now made my night

[lunar adder]

my night is ruined 🔥

[wild wind]

even if this Discord is T-rated the game IS rated M

[gray sage]

Anyone else having major lag on the new quest on pc?

[reef compass]

I definitely liked that xD very old fashioned at that

[upbeat bronze]

Idk what I'm doing wrong

I've been told to use brimstone and then bullet jump and nothing happens

[lone axle]

||unsure, using brimstone should open the door||

[plush swan]

Oh, don't worry.

Snap and kill somebody is negative thermometer.

Now, the middle is where it gets interesting...

(0-5, IIRC)

[wild wind]

0-4

[frigid canopy]

oh...how do I keep track of what I'm at?

ik I'm at at least +1, cuz I subtracted 1 from Roathe via chat, then I added 2 from chats w Marie

[mental ice]

so is a high thermostat good or low is good, that one confuses me lol

[undone lodge]

Its long but you can compare your choices with a flowchart on Kimulacrum

[undone lodge]

High good, low bad, negative score is awful

[upbeat bronze]

IT SHOULD

[solid otter]

Ehh, its only M in certain places. Here in Australia its only 15+

[upbeat bronze]

Idk if I have to be in a position to make the door blow up

[dry cove]

I hope I didn't mess up in today's KIM Chat with Roathe! This is the first time that no voice message followed after.

[frigid canopy]

no, I think it just bugged out lol. Oh no

[mental ice]

I suppose this might be right, but honestly a lot of those responses aren't that intuitive between drifter and roathe 🤔

[solid otter]

Voice messages aren't related to his kimchat

Its related to the descendia, so fret not

[dry cove]

Oh. I did get one red affinity gain line so that's good right?

[solid otter]

Mhm.

[obtuse gyro]

yea Voice messages are tied to the amount of times you clock him over the head in descendia

[tight pagoda]

Red texts are like the gold text in the 1999 chats

It's just because they're on dark mode

[balmy storm]

You try restarting the game? It’s annoying but try it

[balmy storm]

Red text

[half light]

bruh, is it really that bad ?

[tight pagoda]

They've been stuck with that for multiple days

[lofty girder]

Tbf its a literal earworm

[balmy storm]

Oh
Damn, no clue then

That’s really awful dang
Best thing they can probably do is send in a support ticket ig?

[hearty pendant]

purely from a "color theory" type of perspective, its weird that the chemistry gain color is different for the triad
its still signifying the same thing, and black + gold is not a bad color scheme, so why change it?

[solid otter]

Id love for you to consider how Albrecht showed them it

Did bro really walk into 1899 with a walkman

[undone lodge]

He has another line too

“Are they in purgatory for their music? Blah blah blah idr, yes”

[lofty girder]

Vro showed up with a gramophone strapped to his back

[plush swan]

Lyon hate boyband

Lyon smash

[solid otter]

Arthur and lyon making out sloppy style over their hatred for onlyne

[tight pagoda]

Edgy devil colors

[tight pagoda]

God I love that emote

[plush swan]

Did I hear something about children's hospitals? :3

[solid otter]

Its so funny

[half light]

they are from 1899 ? i thought they were from 1399-1799

[solid otter]

Nup, from the accidental hints we saw, its 1899

Roathe even had a removed line about being in the 19th century

[hearty pendant]

yes

[solid otter]

They really fumbled this update tho tbh

Actual content? Great! Accidentally leaving content in... mm.

[upbeat bronze]

I've tried that and still nothing

[gray sage]

God the new quest is glitch af

[upbeat bronze]

Hope DE patches it soon

[gray sage]

Fr I just had to abort a missionc cause ships didn't spawn in and I had to redo a boss fight

[upbeat bronze]

I also aborted the mission where you have to fight caliban but he didn't spawn til he did

[rancid solar]

I just read the best description for the end of the Old Peace quest. 'change of plans. leave NOTHING alive.'

[wild wind]

I agree. I posted that an hour ago

[rancid solar]

ah. maybe that's where I saw it. my brain is tired

[covert dune]

Guys in the new kim with Marie where you talk about Entrati, what way should I go? I'm neutral with Entrati, I don't think he is evil but made so many mistakes that he had to get his hands dirty to try and fix the chaos he caused

[wild wind]

all gucci, I totally agree and I also stole it

[wild wind]

I went mostly neutral where I could but erred on the side of support

I'd recommend asking her more questions where you can

[half light]

im regretting not taking those french lessons seriously, i have to pull out google translator so often with marie lol

[rancid solar]

I'm hoping I don't goof up the dating sim like I did with the couple, now they won't talk to me

[fiery oyster]

I love this.. I love being able to see more into the Orokin life

he is right, the Orokin might only be remembered for all the evil crap they did but the advancements they did cant be ignored

[noble stratus]

she's french

[fiery oyster]

y aknow what.... fair! XD

[rancid solar]

talking about how Ballas should've been turned into a Cephalon and smashed with a big hammer?

[lofty girder]

Honestly Ballas should be turned into a new Descendia, but instead of recovering memories, we're just beating the crap out of him

[balmy storm]

Send a support ticket in, I’m so sorry ):

[half light]

from what roathe says, it is painful being beaten in the dark refractory

[covert dune]

Help with this dialogue, I have the thing on spanish sorry but is after the "That's a beautiful way to see it" part. All three options are shit. the first one is like "I love him but idk how to help him", the second one basically attacks Marie indirectly by insulting the "Preaching" and the third one is just shitting on Entrati. I am neutral towards him but there is no option of that here, it's either you hate him or love him

[balmy storm]

Only issue I had was we broke the servers on launch

[balmy storm]

Good

[wild wind]

If, IF the Orokin hadn't been so bored by existence they gave up on any semblance of morality they might have been hailed as the righteous saviors of humanity

EVERY sin, crime and monstrosity could have been forgiven if they'd been the least sincere in their principles.

The point of course is that they weren't, and probably couldn't be.

[shadow forum]

wait wait
If the man in the wall has planned to takeover a whole origin system and TAU and that wally acts as decoy to manipulate the whole orokin golden emperors?
This shows how much they control to control the whole existence of tenno's and other people life's .

[half light]

what is marie humming ?

[ionic cloak]

we don't even know what wally wants

[shadow forum]

The man in the wall got lost their finger,that grandmother replicated for railjacks ships.
Tenno's had some deal with a wally, but tenno broke that promise for some good reason and wally tries to trackdown entrati and manipulate other's throught the past and future.
He want to change the whole history of things for some reason.

[echo basalt]

hold up, when did grandmother do that?

ya got a source for that

[shadow forum]

Yes, Grandmother (Entrati family) was involved with the fingers used in Railjack's Reliquary Drive, specifically through her research and dealings with the entities from the Void (Man in the Wall/Wally), with the Orokin studying and even replicating these "finger relics" for void travel, although it's more about the Entrati family's connection to the Void entity that lost fingers, not necessarily Grandmother making them, but managing the discovery.

[hearty pendant]

that doesn't exactly sound like the options i saw. unsure
"I wish I knew how I could help him fix the problem." / "I wish he had a better plan than "preach."" / "Well, seeing as it's his fault that thing is running rampant... yes. It's the least he could do."
that first one is slightly albrecht-positive, but by no means is it loving him

[hearty pendant]

grandmother has very little involvement with the void stuff tmk?
albrecht and eularia were more involved than anyone else

[shadow forum]

Wait who grandpa i mean husband was for grandmother.
Since we never heard or saw who he was.

[lofty girder]

Are we sure Grandma is even in the STEM field?

She seems more like a politician

[fiery oyster]

yeah and Marie claims anyone can be forgiven.. I dont think the Orokin can.. cause they did what they did cause they were bored

[covert dune]

Yeah In spanish it sounds like you are full positive of him. I decided to go with the preach one although I feel it's basically an indirect insult to Marie. I do not hate Albrecht but I don't find him good either

[wild wind]

you have to want forgiveness

The Orokin caste never did

[echo basalt]

we don't know who vilcors father is as of yet

[fiery oyster]

well, yea

[echo basalt]

we just got his real name these past days we aint getting a father reveal for a while

[shadow forum]

Grandmother's Role: While Grandmother wasn't a direct scientist, she was part of the Entrati family on Deimos, and her descendants (like Loid and Cavalero) continued research, mentioning "finger relics" and the need to keep originals sealed, suggesting knowledge and potential replication/management of these artifacts.
Replication: It's theorized the Orokin, and later the Entrati, cloned or copied these fingers to supply multiple Railjacks and Zariman vessels, hence the multiple "finger relics".

Oh that makes sense.

[wild wind]

uhhhh

Cavalero??

Are you using chat gpt

because that's all wrong

[covert dune]

Did that, thank you

[shadow forum]

still curious why grandmother talks about dagath

In clan lab

[hearty pendant]

.. because grandmother gave her name to dagath?

[wild wind]

Dagath nearly murdered her

when she was just a nameless murderous Warframe

[hearty pendant]

there's a lot wrong there..

[drifting sparrow]

grandmother IS dagath, before she gave her name to the warframe, dagath

[covert dune]

How? I just finished talking with Marie and I could not talk with Lyon yet. Did you get the friends status with Marie?

[wild wind]

Grandmother survived by trading her name to the Warframe

So Grandmother IS Dagath, but not Warframe-Dagath

[shadow forum]

and that ship with cursed things.

[wild wind]

The Abyssal Zone? No connection to Grandmother

It's connected to Dagath because it's from the place Dagath is from originally

[shadow forum]

What were those cursed items,where it would slow down warframe.

What they used for.

[wild wind]

A little of her curse is haunting the artifacts

Is the easiest explanation

We don't know for sure

[wild wind]

also I looked at this again and it's all wrong

100% not a bit correct

[drifting sparrow]

dagath cursed the defixios?

[wild wind]

Isn't the ship from the estate?

[grave quiver]

hey guys why is suit wearing drifter's clothes

[hearty pendant]

the defixios are apparently from the Villa that Dagath murdered the couple in
so, yea, she's haunting them a bit

[shadow forum]

More question is who sended dagath to assassinate grandmother dagath.

[hearty pendant]

felt fashionable today :)

[wild wind]

No one

[hearty pendant]

she was just wandering the crossroads, anyone she came across was a target

[wild wind]

Dagath was doing horror movie things and chopping people up at crossroads at midnight

[grave quiver]

hey does anyone know what gun makes this projectile? it makes a heavy boom, only fires one shot and leaves a purple trail behind

trying to figure out what bugged weapon i got equipped

[hearty pendant]

prolly the lotus hand
seems to occasionally bug itself back into existence

[shadow forum]

Than why the orokin devil guy wants tenno's drifter to make a peace between loid and the orokin family entrati.

Plus even said sentients have controlled the technology

Kimchat

[grave quiver]

with this firing animation maybe?

[obtuse gyro]

completely unrelated

[drifting sparrow]

how are those things even REMOTELY related

[obtuse gyro]

I think dude just has a language barrier

[grave quiver]

though suit is definitely holding it like a gun

[obtuse gyro]

its been like that for a long while

[shadow forum]

But loid put some injection into a devil orokin guy.

[hearty pendant]

that was albrecht not loid

[noble stratus]

Why does this soundtrack go so hard

[wild wind]

Because he wants to piss off Albrecht

[shadow forum]

Damn the albrecht surely has some crazy stuff.

[wild wind]

Who asked Loid not to meet them for a mostly good reason

[shadow forum]

Mostly unanswered questions maybe next December will be revealed.

[wild wind]

? This update has all the explanations

[drifting sparrow]

there are still some unknowns but probably none related to what we're talking about right now

[shadow forum]

Ok all that, this only shows thst tenno's lost powers.
But the TAU still what it will show us, the 7 orokin masters, of course some showed us.

[grave quiver]

OH MY GOD

[tight pagoda]

I chatted with her today, saw I reached Liked with her, then noticed Lyon was available

[shadow forum]

But still it's alot of things didn't been shown to us yet.

I need to add date of tennocon 2026, than maybe some answers will be revealed.

[tight pagoda]

TennoCon is July 9th-ish

[grave quiver]

guys its even worse

[tight pagoda]

But they hardly ever answer anything at Tennocon, just leave more questions

[shadow forum]

Nice now add more

[tight pagoda]

I hope they don't fix the bug or at least find a way to keep it, Suit looks drippy af with the Drifter outfit

[grave quiver]

i hope they change his head so its not an eyeball anymore

: (

[shadow forum]

it looks like excalibur

[drifting sparrow]

that looks horrific

[grave quiver]

imagine someone throwing pocket sand at you when youre an eyeball head

it looks like a helmet if you ignore the blood vessels

[shadow forum]

He is mix of rhino,kullervo and excalibur at this point.

[grave quiver]

this is suit wearing drifter's clothes, with drifter's abilities, a primary weapon that doesnt exist and an amp as a secondary. with an eyeball for a head

regular drifter is non duviri abilities

[shadow forum]

[balmy storm]

Go into a different captura

[half light]

they added a violin shawzin ?

nvm, that's the prime access one

[robust hatch]

The sixteenth run of Roathe is the best thing ever made

"To render a man into nothing more than - than this? A miserable pile of secrets unto himself? It is a greater sin than any Orokin could ever have dreamt up in their wildest nightmares. SIXTEEN."

[tight pagoda]

Peak

[lofty girder]

Rebecca is absolutely squeezing her money's worth out of the VA

Why else would Roathe have unique voicelines for repeated fights, and the voice messages

[lunar adder]

man I love daft punk

[lunar adder]

OH GOOD LORD THATS WHAT IT IS?? 😨 I THOUGHT IT WAS JUST SHINY WTF

[tight pagoda]

Steve definitely stole Jennifer English for Soulframe before Rebb got a chance to reunite the entire BG3 cast

[lofty girder]

Real question is which fan favorite actor is joining the warframe cast next?

[tight pagoda]

Werner Herzog lmao

[lofty girder]

I keep thinking of the gamechanger skit of Werner Herzog as Spiderman

[rancid pilot]

I wonder how hard it was not to add in a little ff14 reference for the fourteenth time we kill Roathe

[lunar adder]

I hope there's a stupid one for 69th 😭

[rancid pilot]

I feel lowkey bad for keep running this fight beyond the 20th

[hearty pendant]

there's 21 unique lines then it goes to generic i believe

[rancid pilot]

Ah, I'm at the point where he just sort of grovels

I assume i've gotten them all then

[lunar adder]

damn 😔😔

[tulip moon]

Fashion for 2 of my favorite suits

I'm thinking of using necra for drifter and tauron for operator

[amber terrace]

What checkpoint do I start at if I want to scan the somachord right before the Roathe fight?

[tulip moon]

Lyon

[amber terrace]

Thanks! I’m looking to get Roses From The Abyss for my orbiter because it goes that hard

[tulip moon]

I think there's 3 somas, one at Marie, one in a certain arena, and the one before roathes

[tight pagoda]

Roathe

You spawn before that descent

[peak heath]

So Roathe has been pleading with me to stop slaughtering him in the Descendia, saying some memories are meant to stay buried. What happens if I press on I keep folding him?

I mean technically the last time wasn't even my fault. I got locked out of the arena because I was monologing and didn't get to the fight in time.

[uncut solar]

I love miserable pile of secrets references

It's a pure mistranslation that barely makes any sense but people still gave it meaning

[amber terrace]

Terrible story idea: Drifter, somehow, is able to get footage of Operator’s Uriel crash out and shows it to Loid and Roathe and maybe one of the Proto frames just to see how they would react to a child going absolutely apeshit and butchering Prime Grineer, Dax, and being entirely ready to throw hands with Ballas

[grave quiver]

why is it blue

[peak heath]

The Kaithe? You can recolour them in the Teshin room in Duviri.

[uncut solar]

Poor Lyon

[peak heath]

I forgot the protoframes have vehicle mounting dialogue. I'll have to give them all a spin now.

[uncut solar]

Literally

[peak heath]

I still do not know the consequences of giving Roathe the Duviri experience where he's getting killed every few minutes or so (or however long it takes me to cycle his floor). I want to know if I'll get a negative consequence for continuing to push through his protests to not restore the rest of his memories. But I also want to avoid said consequences lol.

Also I imagine getting rolled by a Tenno hit squad is very, very, painful when you're a target with some durability like Roathe.

[tight pagoda]

Roathe is not dying, the idea of him is

The first time you fight him he mentions something like "ah of course! My perfect enemy is myself"

[lofty girder]

we are conducting the most literal form of percussive maintenance on his memories

[obtuse gyro]

well, even without looking in the KIMulacrum, theres bound to be consequences if you push past it

but as for how it plays out...

well, you just gotta find out

[obtuse gyro]

because duh, its chekovs gun the way he cries about it

[solid otter]

He is so delightfully scared

Well. Tested them all out.

Lyon is scared as shit.
Marie loves it
Roathe tolerates it.

[obtuse gyro]

holy crap lyon being scared of the archwing is incredibly funny

[solid otter]

Lets keep bro on the ground

[hearty pendant]

taking lyon to hollvania so he can experience Motorcycles and On-Lyne and then he explodes of his own accord

[uncut solar]

So bad his penance starts doing hp damage

[solid otter]

He is the reason why the reactor explodes early.

[obtuse gyro]

if you think about it

bringing them to 1999 would allow them to walk the streets freely

[tight pagoda]

I've thrown the idea of a group of Protoframe Knights, would be neat, and a way they can tie it in could be that they're actively hunting down the abominations that are the Triad. Of course why they're able to walk around would be another conversation

[uncut solar]

Chroma, finally

[tight pagoda]

How in-depth are those Consent chats? Is it specific to each character? Like can you talk to Lettie about specifically Roathe, with her being confused as to why you'd be interested in an Orokin?

[hearty pendant]

not very, unfortunately
its one prompt with little detail regardless of who the two partners are
they're mostly in character, with the biggest break being lettie being okay with it at all

[fickle estuary]

Chroma protoframe that gets bullied by every other protoframe
"Guys cmon let me fight the indifference this time-"
"Oh my god shut up... whatever your name is and go back to killing the large blue spiders in the basement"

[tight pagoda]

Yeah Lettie has started confusing me. There was that dialogue with her in the second round of chats that could be interpreted as her and Eleanor drunkenly making out (and/or crying)

Then now she's apparently fine with you dating someone else, even though it was mentioned that she "doesn't like sharing", unless that was a line tied to her "Pleasure and Pain" hobbies

[solid otter]

Ngl i think DE should be restricting their players more

[wild wind]

yeah

[solid otter]

It reeks of unexpected backlash from the "its not cheating" comment

[tight pagoda]

Had to censor myself a whole bunch there

[solid otter]

The writing for this whole update feels..

Hm. Rushed? Panicked? Last minute.

[hearty pendant]

the other big character break is also in the lettie consent chat so that one's just.. off, i guess. more of a spoiler so i will spoiler text it (as opposed to being indirectly mentioned in the patch notes like the previous was)
||she asks eleanor to peak in your head about whatever you're about to talk to lettie about and eleanor.. does? even though eleanor has multiple chats about not doing that||
like i said, though, the rest are alright

[solid otter]

Its not the best update, a little underwhelming.

Im slightly disappointed with the lack of Loid chats

Suppose he doesn't have much time

Shouldn't have expected so much from them.

[hearty pendant]

its still a great update, there's just a couple spots where its disappointing
i will merely hope this is addressed/changed in the future

• like. if you can just ignore the consent chat (which i understand the option for even if i'll never do so), why make each of them have to accept it

[wild wind]

yes that's bad

have them actually break up with you if you do it

[frail nymph]

I watched a couple old peace playthroughs and realised that if you die during the beginning Hunhulus stealth/fight sections or the Protea fight, you don't get to revive without losing progress. It started the section again, and even set Protea's health bar to max.

Are revives available in any part of the quest, before Adis does his thing?

[hearty pendant]

the last section might have them, for reasons that are in the quest, but i've not seen anyone die there to confirm

[fickle estuary]

I died during the finale Hunhunllus fight once and it just respawned me in the same way it does when you fall out of the map

It reset transmissions but not the actual fight

It was weird

[obtuse gyro]

I think it's one of those scripted moments where the story/memory didnt have you die

[solid otter]

Well, yeah, unplanned deaths aren't canon, really

[frail nymph]

Well we have previously used the revive (at least the animation) in one of the first cutscenes of the New Ear Ballas fight so I don't see a strict reason to disable revives during the memories.

[solid otter]

Ehh

[frail nymph]

And if you have a revive it's not a death technically

[solid otter]

We didn't "die" in the memory

[frail nymph]

We wouldn't have died if we had the revive mechanic either

[hearty pendant]

||well, once, sorta||

[frail nymph]

The revive mechanic is more of a heal anyway. Like... a frame that's been completely obliterated doesn't seem to be revivable. The Mirage entry stuff

[balmy storm]

We know the tenno feel what the frame does

[frail nymph]

Yup, at least when they aren't in the chair

[balmy storm]

I mean in the chair too?

[frail nymph]

Oh... I meant more taking damage and not just feeling feeling

[balmy storm]

They can feel it but it didn’t actually hurt the tenno

[lofty girder]

Im certain tenno have haptic feedback, otherwise how'd you manage grip control

[frail nymph]

Well as for taking actual damage while in the frame... It could be something that requires the Tenno to be controlling from within the frame and be fighting a sentient etc that can directly attack something as 'abstract' as a Tenno in the middle of transference.

Like the dragonfly like sentient in the old peace quest that grabbed the operators throat and made them not be able to transference out. And the attacks of the Hunhulus

[balmy storm]

They don’t control them from within what

They aren’t physically hopping in there lol

[frail nymph]

When there's no chair, they do.

Like they don't have a physical body but if I had to answer the question of "where are they," they are inside the frame

The sentient grabbed the operators throat in that cutscene

[balmy storm]

With transference they can remotely control the frames and use them to exit out from them, but they aren’t actually, physically in there

[frail nymph]

When there's no chair, where are they physically?

[balmy storm]

They grabbed the frame’s throat and the tenno felt it

[frail nymph]

The hand is inside the frame though

[hearty pendant]

huh

[balmy storm]

In the cryopod
Or they don’t exist physically

During the old pace they either are at the academy or don’t physically exist, only their consciousness but that’s speculation

[frail nymph]

The cryopods don't happen until the end of Old War.

And the original dream pods from the Rhino entry are no longer in use.

The only option (that we've currently seen) are the chair or just in the frame without a typically physical body.

[balmy storm]

Transference, for the tenno allow them to teleport to the frame’s location
We see that in the war within

We also know the tenno can feel what their frame feels

[hearty pendant]

that's pretty clearly around the neck of the frame, not in it

[frail nymph]

That consciousness is what I'm talking about. It seems to me that sentients can attack them

[balmy storm]

There’s nothing that suggests they’re in the frame Being mentally through transference

[frail nymph]

Ahh okay I remember wrong then

[balmy storm]

Or
By strangling the frame the tenno felt it as they feel what they do.

[frail nymph]

My mind just didn't process that a frame could be strangled by a dying sentient. Too weak

Or that a frame can even be choked out at all

[balmy storm]

And that’s speculative

[balmy storm]

They weren’t dying yet???

[frail nymph]

It's at the end of a fight where the sentient loses and can barely walk...?

[balmy storm]

I guess

[hearty pendant]

definitely weak, not yet dying

it floats down then charges toward you pretty quickly

[frail nymph]

Sure but why then is the Tenno's life at risk? Why is it "me or them?"

Just end transference

[balmy storm]

Anyway
The frame is being choked and the tenno feel it

[frail nymph]

Why couldn't the Tenno end transference in the moment?

[balmy storm]

Cause they were being choked???

[frail nymph]

We hear the sound effect of transference not working

[balmy storm]

You try doing something while being choked to death

[frail nymph]

They weren't physically. And Tenno have certainly powered through much more painful things I'm sure

The Tenno was in enough control to activate transference... That's why we heard the sounds

[balmy storm]

They still were feeling it.

They maybe wouldn’t have died from it but they still felt every moment

[balmy storm]

Yeah, they tried and it failed since they were being choked out

[frail nymph]

Transference has previously been used to physically pass through the Grinder queen.

It just seems outlandish to me that it can be stopped by plain and simple choking, let alone the sensation of choking.

[frail nymph]

If the Tenno had enough control to activate a 4th ability and stab, why not just use transference instead?

[balmy storm]

That was a void sling??

[balmy storm]

I don’t think it’s as simple for them as it is for us

[obtuse gyro]

do we? the transference blocked sfx is very different, I would know, Ive been a victim of it too many times in ETA/EDA

[frail nymph]

Transference is a prerequisite to controlling a frame so I wouldn't assume it's more complex but okay

[hearty pendant]

i think it is still a transference out, then in that we hear there

[frail nymph]

I remember hearing the same sound as when you press 5... But it kinda stops abruptly every time

[obtuse gyro]

thats the sfx you hear yeap

you hear out then a pause, then back in

[frail nymph]

Oh I don't mean transference interference, if that's the SFX you mean

[hearty pendant]

transference out, arms fall, transference in, exalted blade, stab

[undone lodge]

Also like
You can hop out in the fight

[obtuse gyro]

I mean, Im not sure I get what you mean by "not working" because theres an out and then an in, so it sounds like it worked

I too am not certain why the tenno figured it was "him or me"

[frail nymph]

But we didn't exit the frame successfully so did it work?

[hearty pendant]

maybe it was a fake out that didn't work, or something?
so the options were lose the frame or kill the sentient ("him or me" still applies, mostly)

[obtuse gyro]

I mean theres a good chunk of screen space off screen for the tenno

you could fit a school with that real estate

[hearty pendant]

i can't believe we're back on the transference out/in thing from the demo but with the actual quest now

[frail nymph]

Maybe it was successful but that just meant now the sentient was also grabbing the Tenno directly? Which would be worse, ergo the transference back in

[balmy storm]

We could have been fine and he could have adapted

[frail nymph]

Okay I'm late for Uni cheers guys good to see y'all after so long

[obtuse gyro]

Im not sure if I would necessarily agree, we've had our fair share of being choked right out of transference in the meta history of warframe (the sacrifice), so Id imagine a clearer image of the sentient choking us out if it was the case

its going to be one of those things where we pray someone talks about it in a tennocon art panel or something

[frail nymph]

Well that meta history has a reason to be a certain way because it would be really strange to have Umbra choke himself lol

[balmy storm]

||why didn’t adis just adapt instead of die||

[obtuse gyro]

Why did praghasa not just adapt to the void? is she stupid?

[balmy storm]

LOL ok yeah nvm

Forgot our abilities are void powered, technically

[undone lodge]

Why didn’t they just adapt to dying

Then it would just really hurt

https://tenor.com/view/drake-notebook-gif-20708336

[balmy storm]

I more so meant the damage but yeah lol

[fickle estuary]

Why didn't Adis just use Squad Health Restore (Large) is he actually braindead

[balmy storm]

Why didn’t we use vazarin strike are we stupid

[undone lodge]

Why didn’t Adis use stims

Did he forget to join the Tauron Clan

[fickle estuary]

If Vazarin Strike doesn't revive Sentients this means they don't have souls and therefore deserved to have no rights
Daklo was right all this time?!

[hearty pendant]

conversation has moved on slightly but something else i've noticed
the emissive lights on excal prime go off just after the first arm falls, then turn back on when the transfer in sound plays
do with this what you will because i have no clue

[balmy storm]

I’ll kill him again anyway

[tight pagoda]

It could be tied to the ARG's reveal of there ||being radiation on Tau that locks Operators into their Warframes||?

[fickle estuary]

Diamond Skin is right there 🥀

[hearty pendant]

maybe? ||but that radiation had a permanent affect, and was under a, by the end of the thing, destroyed egg||

• that seems like it would use the transference blocked sfx, not an out/in

[pulsar galleon]

So, given eternalism, is there a reality where Ballas was killed during his "rescue" and adis lives and such? Or would the peace still have fallen thru?

[steady abyss]

If you let him die, he simply takes your body.

That's actually what happens as it triggers a fail-safe, so if anything, he'd be more powerful.

[lofty girder]

Okay real question, how did the Sentient Archimedian fit into the humanoid cutout of the landing craft?

Like from the cutscene, the landing craft is opening ala warframe extraction. But from the husks we find on the zariman, these specific model of landing craft can open to a conventional cabin via gull wing doors

[fickle estuary]

Summonlysts can open their "legs" so he could actually maybe fit into the human frame

It still looks really weird tho lol

Then again the uh calves(?) are fat af

So dunno

[lofty girder]

DE just so happen to cut away from that in the cutscene.... Amogus

[fickle estuary]

HE DIDNT ACTUALLY DIE AND WILL COME BACK IN TAU UPDATE TRUST

The voice was just a recorded message

He floated down the cliff actually because he foresaw the craft dying

[lofty girder]

They sent the wrong landing craft, so he had to improvise

It was supposed to be a Bolkor

[fickle estuary]

Actually yeah why wasn't it a bolkor

It would have solved the weird entrance problem

[lofty girder]

And probably survived the artillery hit...

[prime forge]

Seems ive had a visal glitch

My guys ready for war without armor

[quiet willow]

Wouldn't it have made sense to see sorren once during the old peace quest? It's stated that he's a low guardian, someone who protects the orokin. Yet he was never present once. Out of all the tenno raised, how could he have known it was specifically us who betrayed the golden lords if he was never there once to see it?

[cerulean kiln]

He was there the day of the Naga Drums though witnessing us kill the Orokin while he was unable to even say anything

[mossy axle]

Alright, I'm a little lost here. I thought Natah put us in the second dream, not Margulis. Or was Margulis already executed, and this was Natah in our memories taking her place?

[coarse elk]

why doesnt father lyon wanna talk to me?

[cerulean kiln]

Because you haven't earned his trust

[drifting sparrow]

margulis wasn't executed until after she put the tenno in the second dream

[coarse elk]

how do I do that?

[tight pagoda]

Get to Liked with Marie

[mossy axle]

I thought Natah came in, manipulated us into eradicating the orokin, became lotus, and put us in the second dream after

[cerulean kiln]

Liked with Marie
Need a Daily reset for KIM chats can buy his stuff at liked without reset though

[cerulean kiln]

Natah put us in the Pods after the War while Margulis created them and used them for therapy

[terse tapir]

Ok, I would like to hear your thoughts guys... bear with me and the wall of text... not WALLY related... ^^
I'm following a Baby-Tenno atm who is streaming his journey through all the Content... Yesterday he started "The new War"... And there was something... odd... which I noticed...
You know, every time we dial into the Perita-Memories during the transition we hear a ringtone.. was also there during the Old Peace Quest whenever our Operator did go back into...
Yesterday I heard that same ringtone during the start of the Mission, where the Drifter goes to meet Hunhow...
I can't shake the feeling, that this means something... Could all of the Story just be memories we try to rediscover...?! 🤔

[mossy axle]

You mean that alarm sound?

[undone lodge]

He doesn’t know it was specifically us

Both because it wasn’t, and because it wasn’t us specifically

The betrayal was the Night of the Naga Drums, a seperate event way after the incident at Tauron

[undone lodge]

He hunts all Tenno, not just the player/main character

[cerulean kiln]

Nothing actually says low guardians were allowed to go to Tau tbh

[quiet willow]

And because of eternalism stuff doesn't that mean every tenno in existence did it

[undone lodge]

No

[cerulean kiln]

No

[terse tapir]

Yes, that... :)

[cerulean kiln]

That's literally not how Eternalism works

The quest made it clear Eternalism was theoretically accessible not always accessible

There’s been only 3 cases of it in the entire game

[mossy axle]

I'm looking at a playthrough and trying to hear it, but I don't Q_Q

[obtuse gyro]

you sure you heard that same alarm sound?

like Im rn trying to get its mp3 to use as my own alarm because I love it so much

but I would have acted like that if it was in there in tnw

[quiet willow]

An alarm huh?

[terse tapir]

@mossy axle & @obtuse gyro I have a Link ... If it's not starting at the time : 2:50:29
https://youtu.be/gcPWPe_G_Zs?si=ZcisURHTrbOOcpLs

[mossy axle]

OH MY

[obtuse gyro]

Interesting!, its a playthrough thats recent

let me show you what it sounds like before

[quiet willow]

You mean the corpus alarm sound effect? Or the combat music?

[terse tapir]

Yep, he literally did the Quest at the weekend or yesterday ...

[obtuse gyro]

16 hours ago lol

[obtuse gyro]

anyways even back to this, I dont think "all of the story just be memories..." is the appropriate conclusion

because neither do you enter or wake up from a memory, so the alarm playing doesnt make sense here

[mossy axle]

If anything, they probably re-use sound effects. That is interesting to think about though. maybe it'll tie in O_O

[quiet willow]

The corpus alarm or the combat music, or did you mean something else

[obtuse gyro]

its something else entirely

[terse tapir]

I mean the alarm sound before he load into the missin loading screen...

[obtuse gyro]

or it might be a sphaghetti

[terse tapir]

Yeah, maybe it's just a bug... But we all know how sneaky DE can be with story beats... That just made me suspicious...

[quiet willow]

Oh I hear it now

Yeah no that must be a bug, I remember during my playthrough that was never originally there.

[terse tapir]

Oki, spaghetti or bug...

[quiet willow]

I found the file if you want me to send yall it @terse tapir @obtuse gyro

[obtuse gyro]

please

[calm rock]

yeah so its fixed now lmao

[fierce pasture]

wait, isn't adis's doggo amar the archon?

[solid otter]

Mhm.

[fierce pasture]

sick

so what happened to that doggo, can it's fate be changed ?

[solid otter]

I use the like
Pager ringtone from 1999 as my alarm and it scares the shit out of me every time

[solid otter]

Nup. That's just the memory. No clue what happened, but its nothing good.

[cerulean kiln]

It can’t be unframed if that’s what you’re asking

It also had to have fell as that’s how the lore went

Archons were made where Sentient and Warframe fell

[fierce pasture]

poor doggo, so it was framed like all the others huh, interesting, wonder if there's more than just the indifference in the void

also the other executors

[cerulean kiln]

Void angels
Duviri creations
Murmur
Holdfasts

[fierce pasture]

was that not all based from indifference?

[cerulean kiln]

Holdfasts are the Zariman crew brought back by Conceptual Embodiment

Duviri is a whole load of CE stuff

Murmur are pieces of Wally and versions of Tenno

Angels were Holdfasts that succumbed to the Void song which Teshin assumes are subservient to Wally but he’s no expert so we don’t have a true answer

[solid otter]

Well, If i really wanna nitpick about it

[fierce pasture]

gotcha thanks for explaining, so there might not be another boss level void entity like wally?

[uncut solar]

inb4 the master teshin is talking about is not wally

[fierce pasture]

tis curious

[solid otter]

Technically, Wally's existence lead to Euleria writing the tales of Duviri

[cerulean kiln]

There probably isn’t an entity that is as powerful as Wally as of current lore

Angels went after the largest Void power source in an Operation which was Wally

[fierce pasture]

ooo good point

[uncut solar]

evil and intimidating void angel controlling executor Nitokh somewhere deep in the void

[solid otter]

I still haven't emotionally recovered from Albrecht having Mother's book in the netracells

[uncut solar]

hit me with a shovel

[fierce pasture]

that's what I'm wondering, roathe giving refresher/new info

[solid otter]

The kimchat system as a whole are good for bringing up older lore

[fierce pasture]

I don't remember, but did they ever talk about what happened to the drifters lotus?

[cerulean kiln]

https://tenor.com/view/kürekle-with-a-shovel-hit-with-a-shovel-gif-10412399236569101365

[uncut solar]

thank you

[ionic cloak]

He never had one ?

[solid otter]

Well, id assume that timeline got yoinked by Wally

[fierce pasture]

was there one in his timeline?

[solid otter]

Yeah, that too, but like id assume that even without us, the tenno would still have met Margulis

In that timeline

[cerulean kiln]

Timeline dead
Lotus dead

[fierce pasture]

ahh the timeline died?

[cerulean kiln]

Yes

[solid otter]

We assume so, without the chosen operator existing there

[cerulean kiln]

Drifter going to Operator’s timeline destroyed theirs with only traces remaining

[fierce pasture]

ahh, no wonder they refer to wally as a god, but a god was being contained by rell

[solid otter]

Rell would've collapsed, and we wouldn't have been there to hold it up

[fierce pasture]

was about to bring that part up too

how roathe know so much

[solid otter]

I mucking hate how we can't agree here with Roathe

[solid otter]

Honestly? No clue, probably the operator report on that POM-2

[plush swan]

Yeah, my reaction to that is, "FINALLY!"

[cerulean kiln]

Same but I think the logic was getting the conversation to be longer as I agree might end it in 5 seconds

[solid otter]

Roathe i swear i agree please let me agree

[plush swan]

I think if they let you say, "FINALLY! Someone who gets it!", they could easily have had Roathe go on with the deets.

[solid otter]

https://tenor.com/view/meme-anime-gif-22734101

[plush swan]

Albrecht's second kid: Wally Entrati

[cerulean kiln]

He’s living in a cathedral with 2 religious people while also having knowledge of Orokin society because that is his original time period plus he read Operator report on the PC so knows about current events like Narmer

[undone lodge]

Didn’t we confirm it with Gargoyle’s Cry?

[fierce pasture]

ahhhhh @cerulean kiln

[uncut solar]

When the tau update drops they should add a new line to roathe that he says at the end no matter what

"actually I lied about all of that lol"

[cerulean kiln]

Confirm master status?

[undone lodge]

Yeah

[solid otter]

I could 100% go on, improv is all about yes and, we could've agreed on how conceptual embodiment worked, asked for his own experience on it, so many things we could've pivoted to - we could've talked to him about Duviri

[cerulean kiln]

Wally doesn’t really command them in the Operation and nothing in it mentions their master

[solid otter]

Nah, the kid is older than Euleria, so it couldn't be Wally-/j

[obtuse gyro]

Ive done it

[cerulean kiln]

Done what?

[obtuse gyro]

Its usable as an alarm

[fierce pasture]

ahh I forget the kid was in stasis for so long

[solid otter]

The way this would also scare the shit out of me

[ionic cloak]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-patrick-panic-run-scream-gif-4336271928806092972

[uncut solar]

Trauma manifests(needing to go to work)

[thick cedar]

Wtfff why does he have a conversation where he contradicts this

[obtuse gyro]

he dont

his stance is very clear on wally

[cerulean kiln]

Which convo?

[thick cedar]

Lemme screenshot

[obtuse gyro]

he's making that remark for that first sentence

his issue is with you thinking it existed before, and then albrecht gave it shape via CE, instead of it just being albrechts CE

[thick cedar]

Ahh I see

[pale violet]

The ever growing line of people wanting to kill Albrecht Entarii

[pale violet]

I believe it existed before hand but not in our dimension

[thick cedar]

Me too

[solid otter]

Ehh

[thick cedar]

And definitely not in the form it takes now

[cerulean kiln]

That’s not how CE works though

[solid otter]

Void stuff as a whole aren't the same dimension as us anyways

The void is specifically the space between it

[pale violet]

It works when heavy emotions interacts with the void Albrecht fear of the void could've given it a shape

[solid otter]

Ehh

[cerulean kiln]

No, it just created Wally straight up

[pale violet]

They say it's old as stars it and has existed for eons multiple times so some sort of "it" existed before Albrecht

Or just that everyone is an unreliable narrator and we aren't getting answers anytime soon

[cerulean kiln]

This whole arc has been giving us answers

[solid otter]

Ehh that was one person who was kinda spiritual asf

[cerulean kiln]

Only a person who is old as stars can know if a person is old as stars

[solid otter]

And well

[cerulean kiln]

Otherwise it is legit speculation

[solid otter]

We are made of stardust, technically. Not really but its there.

[cerulean kiln]

Only the weak Tenno who lost to Wally

[pale violet]

According to that fear character in duviri she does say Albrecht fear took shape

[solid otter]

Sythel?

[pale violet]

I believe that's her name

[solid otter]

Yeah. She also has wally (probably) tapping on her walls.

[pale violet]

Oh she 100% does

[solid otter]

Oh no like. He is outside tapping on her wall. Like. Deadass.

[pale violet]

Wym

The vagabond?

[solid otter]

Its only probably cuz we don't fully know if the vagabond is wally

But. There is reason to think so.

Mm. Missing finger.

[pale violet]

The vagabond is probably like Ruslka each cycle sipping more into them

[cerulean kiln]

Vagabond just is Wally at this point tbh

[pale violet]

I wonder what will happen to Ruslka

[cerulean kiln]

Wally needed a way to sneak into Duviri without being caught

[pale violet]

A piece of her is still in there

[cerulean kiln]

Isleweaver

[pale violet]

Yeah I know but after that and the fragments collected it hinted that a piece of her maybe in there or it's Wally playing a sick prank

[cerulean kiln]

Wait for Sol and Lua to align and find out

[signal token]

uhh am i suppose to be here

[crystal agate]

she's just vibing

nothing yet, though ive heard people guess that its about the event

[thin sail]

What’s the best quest in your guys opinion

[cerulean kiln]

War Within

[spring valve]

Jade shadows

[thin sail]

Dude stalker little got like 4 kids

[uncut solar]

4?

[spring valve]

4?

[digital fossil]

sacrifice

[thin sail]

Umbra does hit hard

[near crest]

[[Roathe VIM convo:]]
|| does that mean that garuda's protoframe will be the Exceutor Nitokh?? since they are both the queens of blood™ ||
🥺
👉👈

[jade berry]

||Are we finally getting the promised garuda lore?||

[uncut solar]

||Maybe made in her image instead of being a proto||

||kinda like Margulis\Khora situation||

[undone lodge]

There’s also another link between them, don’t remember though

[solid otter]

Its who theyre based on

[thick cedar]

You know I think I am starting to warm up to Roathe a bit, he's still Orokin so its a VERY small bit

[fiery surge]

If it's the Woah feel PRIOR to Old Peace.

The Second Dream.

Though I could have said I had a few striking favorites

my only quest I have qualms about is The New War

due to having a few plot holes

Duviri solved the Drifter plot hole

but that does not explain where did we craft the Rattleguts or get a Grineer Narmer ship at the introduction of the drifter

[tropic venture]

Timeskip

[real niche]

Rattleguts?

[tropic venture]

Narmer was in control for a while

[tropic venture]

Rabblejack I assume

[muted lotus]

rumblejack

[real niche]

Rumblejack ah.

[muted lotus]

the taser stick

[fiery surge]

We know that time has passed