spoiler-chat

[lone axle]

al likely made the man in the wall while trying to find if the void had a useable purpose or not

[rain otter]

He was the first person to ever go to the Void. So he is the one that discovered hyper space travel. Also the fingers he cut off become the fingers in the requilary drive.

[viral kettle]

How old can an orokin get?

[lone axle]

infinitely old if they keep switching bodies

[graceful zodiac]

immortal

[viral kettle]

But they can still die

[lone axle]

the tenno are one of the few that can kill an orokin for good

[nova harness]

Body snatching

[hearty pendant]

difficult, but yes
well- difficult to kill. apparently.
-# we seemed to do fine the first time idk

[viral kettle]

I guess that explains why the grineer queen wanted our bodies

[lone axle]

yes, that was explained by teshin earlier in the quest 😅

[viral kettle]

So what, is almost everything the universe somehow related to the orokin?

[nova harness]

Without body snatching they can die like the rest of us

[zenith jacinth]

Yes

[lone axle]

yes they are the reason for all of the problems

except for the scaldra and the original techrot

[rain otter]

We where their "yuvan".

[viral kettle]

Man these orokins must suck a lot to cause all the problems in the universe

[rain otter]

Even the sentients

[zenith jacinth]

It's mostly due to hubris and laziness

[nova harness]

They didn't cause all problems in the universe tbh

[zenith jacinth]

Almost all

[viral kettle]

Wait when do I unlock 1999?

[zenith jacinth]

A few quests after tnw

[viral kettle]

aight

Cause I remember seeing a video of someone playing 1999 before choosing their warframe

[zenith jacinth]

That is impossible

[rain otter]

Do you mean duviri?

[viral kettle]

or maybe im dumb and I saw wrong

[rain otter]

Do duviri right before or after new war.

[viral kettle]

Ah it was a Shenpai vid and she got a demo for 1999

That's what I remember watching

[hearty pendant]

there was a demo for a bit yeah, gone now
but definitely not accessible before choosing a frame

[lone axle]

oh yeah
i dont need it but a friend will
now that the demo's gone how do you get the sword skin??

[hearty pendant]

either quest reward or from quincy i think?

[viral kettle]

Ok I just finished Prelude to War, so is Erra working with Ballas?

Or is Erra dead and Ballas was manipulating Natah?

[nova harness]

Working together

Happy you actually noticed unlike most

[viral kettle]

How did most see it?

Also now that I think about it, Ballas gave us a sentient killing sword

So Im guessing he's gonna double cross Erra by having us kill the sentients

[nova harness]

Most didn't understand the scene at all and by the time of New War thought Erra was gonna be the main Villain, not Ballas

[viral kettle]

Erra was just introduced and got owned by the tenno and everyone thought he was gonna be the main villain?

kinda funny to think about

anyways was fun chatting, gonna head to bed now

[zenith jacinth]

That was a flashback

[dawn oracle]

I found it kind of funny that Ballas succumbed to the very veil HE CREATED and then died to The Lotus sucking his soul out.

[sharp adder]

I rewatched someone do The New War recently and the second he drain kissed Lotus it made sense why he died to a drain kiss

[warm anvil]

yeah bc the veil made him believe that was margulis

[sharp adder]

I more meant the paralell there

[warm anvil]

sry what do you mean

[pliant spade]

do u guys think we ever get excal prime?

[obtuse gyro]

nah

[cosmic prawn]

Probably not. DE seems pretty set to honour the Founder's Pack promise

[nova harness]

They have stated many times they are never bringing him back him being in trailers is just that, a trailer

[agile condor]

Most likely not

If I remember correctly, they said he can't be on the drop tables, but a pack is different

I wish they'd do a poll with the founders, to see what they say, I am on PS, I never got the chance for Excal P and want him!

[icy briar]

Next prime?
Caliban? Gyre?

[wise basalt]

Got a feeling it might be Caliban, if to further go with the by now certain revelation that we're going to Tau.

[keen schooner]

if the we we go to Tau be via the Zariman since the archimidean Yonta says she'd be able tomake the jump to Tau given another chance

then it might be Gyre

since gyre lore is tied to the zariman

[zenith jacinth]

We won't

The zariman can't be moved without serious consequences

[keen schooner]

no no, not the zariman itself, but from there onwards via our own ship/railjack modified for the jump

[wise basalt]

Given that one of the trailers for Tennocon showed a literal hole in the sun... got a feeling we're getting to Tau via the remnants of Praghasa. That, or we're going to be going into a void bubble that is a mimic of Tau, a la Duviri or 1999.

[night grail]

1999 isnt a void bubble

It is THE past

[undone lodge]

Icl I still think that was just a sunspot to add detail

[wise basalt]

Then why is it that the Drifter is capable of rewinding time in it, in the same way as Duviri? If it were the actual past, I would certainly imagine that such a ploy would not work properly.

[undone lodge]

Because it’s a timeloop

Hold on there’s like an inbox message or kim thing

I’ll go find it

I can make no sense at all of these readings. Your site of temporal injection has somehow shifted. Your loop now encompasses the entire year of 1999.

Albrecht's interference is to blame, no doubt. What does he feel you need more time to achieve? He surely must have given guidance, however cryptic!

I can offer one service, at least. I discovered a clandestine blueprint among Albrecht's personal effects, for a warframe so secret it was never named. It is yours.

[night grail]

Entrati already had a timeloop going

Drifter just became the overseer in the control room

Didn't create it

[azure solar]

oh thank goodness. i really want spoodwer

[cosmic rain]

So, time for my mom to get the best pistol in the game.

[wraith musk]

The lore of warfame is wild but intriguing

[astral relic]

I forget the name of it but isn't there like a law of the universe in Warframe where even if a time loop is 100% reset some things will still change based on the actions of the past loop?

[obtuse gyro]

"law" not exactly, but what youre thinking of is the palimpsest of spacetime

[astral relic]

Maybe "Tau is within reach" cause Albrecht looped enough for some change to build up. And needed the Drifter (who is now used to Time Loops) to see it through cause Albrecht knew they wouldn't crack under all the loops

[astral relic]

Ah word that's right that's what it was

[obtuse gyro]

oh uh, I dont think thats how its applied here

what the palimpsest of space time's core thesis is that events can be rewritten, but traces of the original persist

if albrecht wanted to change something it wouldnt be through "looped enough for some change"

the bozo would just change it

[astral relic]

But it's essentially a tug of war against the Indifference now yeah?

[undone lodge]

Tau is in sight was because of the reactor, since Albrecht says it’s needed to escape

"You and I are trapped here. Soon the Murmur will crawl through the cracks and devour this world and its possibilities."

"Our only means of escape… our only hope to contain this horror I have created… will require a spark of energy rare in this timeline. You know what this means."

"Do not allow Arthur and the Hex to stop this. I realise what I am asking… but you of all people understand what is at stake. For the sake of everything before and to come… at midnight tonight… the 'bomb' must go off."

[astral relic]

Like if Albrecht just goes and changes it couldn't the Indifference do the same with someone it's possessed?

[obtuse gyro]

for 1999? nah we kinda won in that part, thats why eight claw happened

[obtuse gyro]

which is a critical thing, because in the grand scale of time, albrecht actually managed to change nothing

the reactor was albrecht's doing, without that the techrot would have spread anyways, which is what it will do now even when we have the good ending

this is how events must go for our timeline to be the way that it is

[astral relic]

But we stopped the bomb no?

[undone lodge]

In the loop after he left, yes

In the first “half” of The Hex Aoi is overwhelmed and Amir dies before it can be stopped

[astral relic]

Ah I see

He got what he needed from that loop then we clean up his mess like we normally do

[obtuse gyro]

kinda, but he also needed us to stop the bomb in the end

because if we dont do that, our future doesnt exist

the techrot needs to spread to start the radiation wars

[astral relic]

Yeag

[azure solar]

i just want the warframe and the scythe

[opaque dove]

That’s scuttler husks

[hearty pendant]

both of those are in the standard shop, not the limited one

[opaque dove]

It’s thrax that’s leaving

[undone lodge]

Left us to finish the second half of the job* but yeah

[azure solar]

so they fell victims to their greed and incompetence- skill issue

[undone lodge]

I mean ultimately the flaw that did them in was pettiness and desperation.

[azure solar]

they spoiled themselves rotten though

[graceful zodiac]

Not really. Stopping the reactor was about bonding with the Hex. The reactor going off or not doesn't really change anything

[obtuse gyro]

things can have more than one purpose, but also the techrot needed to spread, leveling hollvania would stop that

[undone lodge]

They were getting desperate for a success in the project, and part of why they passed the project was Ballas manipulating them into supporting it to spite him

[graceful zodiac]

Not entirely. iirc, The Infestation already existed in other places before 1999. Or at least, it was already a known quantity and part of the reason Hollvania went to keep it quiet

[obtuse gyro]

techrot is a hollvanian original tho

Im not sure where you got the idea that it was anywhere else than hollvania

[graceful zodiac]

Techrot yes. Infestation/technocyte, no

[obtuse gyro]

same question applies

where did you get the idea the infestation/technocyte is elsewhere in 1999

[astral relic]

Do we know where Techrot even came from in Höllvania. And how the Orokin scooped some of it up to make the Technocyte?

[obtuse gyro]

techrot lasts long enough into the future to become and be utilised as the infestation in the orokin era

18 rad wars werent enough

[graceful zodiac]

It existed before Hollvania, the OnLyne managers sourced it from somewhere before the outbreak

[obtuse gyro]

it existed before 1999*

the email didnt say that they got it from outside of hollvania

[opaque dove]

It really kicked up back in 1988 if I recall

[obtuse gyro]

98

[astral relic]

Yeah iirc Eleanor mentions that it's Hölvanian in origin, breeding in the sewers

But like, how did it get there

[true horizon]

I blame entrati

[real niche]

Who knows

[astral relic]

Cause I don't think Dark Sector is canon to Warframe. So don't think it came from Russia/Anywhere else but Höllvania

[real niche]

He's completely unrelated to this, this time.

[real niche]

Dark Sector is not related to WF besides a couple references to it, correct.

[astral relic]

Yeah I don't know how he would get the Technocyte to bring it back to the past if the Technocyte is dependent on the Techrot existing

[true horizon]

Is he tho? Who's to say he's not the one who planted the infestation as some form of paradox

[real niche]

Because we know everyone in Hollvania has been suffering from Techrot before Albrecht even showed up

[obtuse gyro]

Testudo syndrome it was called

[astral relic]

The Infestation exists before he discovers the void/time travel

Byeag

[real niche]

He just abused the fact everyone was desperate for a cure to it

[astral relic]

Cool name Eleanor thank you

[hearty pendant]

there's only one paradox and its duviri
every other one has been avoided
1999 was already known as the plague year, i believe

[obtuse gyro]

yea checked it:

OnLyne managers specifically reaches out to a group in hollvania to start the technocyte coda project, the "samples" they sent were of OnLyne's. The emails point more to techrot (and technocyte for that matter) being as what the managers would call "Hollvanian innovation"

[true horizon]

Maybe it just bred in the sewers and just evolved to a hive mind after a decade of gestation

The technocyte originated in hollvania. The reactor meltdown is why that period of time is on a loop

[astral relic]

Unrelated I think it's weird that the Scaldra use Corrosive weapons to fight the Techrot. SMH they aren't even weak to it. Throw some magnets at em instead

[true horizon]

I think it's because they use the efevron that's readily available.

In dark sector they used enferon to kill technocyte so I think it's just a callback to that

[fleet mesa]

yall think something going to happen to excalibur or excalibur prime or som after the new posted teaser?

[nova harness]

No

A frame being in a teaser doesn't mean in any way the frame is returning

[untold mantle]

I dont think its Tau - Just Steve who went postal on the primes doing his down period

[ashen sierra]

that phergasa ship tho

[mystic delta]

You think they’ll bring a tenno npc into it or were the tenno even controlling the frames then in the tau system

[opaque dove]

Doesn’t tetsudo mean something along the lines of iron scale?

[obtuse gyro]

no it means tortoise shell

[opaque dove]

Oh

[ornate ermine]

🇧🇷 jogador ativo perdi minha conta principal de anos. iniciando do Zero. procurando galera pra jogar e avançar mais rapido no jogo. quem poder ajudar chama pv🇧🇷

[solemn elbow]

https://tenor.com/view/wheeze-laugh-gif-14359545

Oh lord, I've spent a good 5 minutes or so just uncontrollably wheezing at this interaction. How real is this?

[opaque dove]

Very

Big gun fun, no pay to ask questions

And I think the skulls are just decorative

[solemn elbow]

Facts.

Give me a Mausolon and I'll just be having a laugh whilst the thing goes BRRRR.

[solemn elbow]

Maybe? I'm not sure. We know the Necramechs aren't the only Entrati machines with skulls, look at the Necraloid.

[opaque dove]

And my boy harrow prime has one too

[solemn elbow]

Harrow Prime has a skull?

[opaque dove]

Yeah

[tropic venture]

Yeah it's unclear wether the skulls serve a purpose beyond just aesthetics, the Entrati do like morbid stuff

[solemn elbow]

Where?

[opaque dove]

Face

[zenith jacinth]

Huh

[tight pagoda]

Might be some Orokin laborer aesthetic thing, since the Grineer masks kinda look like skulls too. And maybe Ordan Karris was called "the beast of bones" not just for the bodies he left behind but also that he wore some sort of armor with a skeletal theme?

[cosmic prawn]

The face plate on Harrow Prime is reminicient of a skull, but it's too flat to be an actual skull.

[radiant sapphire]

idk where else to ask this but could someone please explain what this glyph means?

[tropic venture]

Placeholder, it's used internally by DE

for, well, Placeholders

[hearty pendant]

occasionally gets to the live build

[radiant sapphire]

lmao i thought there was a deeper meaning

thank you!

[zenith jacinth]

Just a community meme

[real niche]

They're not called meme glyphs for no reason

[midnight crescent]

Drifter or Ciri. You'll never know.

[pastel canopy]

Guys i think loid had a little too much to drink

[vagrant edge]

shoulda never smoked that stuff
now i'm in the great indifference

[fluid spoke]

Any new reveals yet? I just got home

[hearty pendant]

3 new protos
romanceable
2 will be shown tonight

[fluid spoke]

Which ones (or are they saving the reveal of which frames until they show them)?

[hearty pendant]

no other info rn

the one not being shown is probably a new frame

as with the other two proto drops

[fluid spoke]

Wait a second...Hunhow could give us the coordinates to Tau and let us hitch a ride on Praghasa with the Sol sentients to help the sentients there because the Indifference is encroaching on their territory

[livid portal]

Absolute cinema

[obtuse gyro]

and what take the long ride?

[fluid spoke]

Knowing how the sentients adapt, who's to say they don't develop a means to jump similar to the Zariman without dipping into the Void?

[obtuse gyro]

well, that would have been a crazy breakthrough to do after they got themselves sterilised

[livid portal]

Is hunhow unable to do things or is he just lazy?

[obtuse gyro]

He's in his grandpa era

[hearty pendant]

grandpa era lmao

[fluid spoke]

Desperation is the mother of invention. They could take their time getting to Sol because of the eradication of the Orokin. Not so much when their home is directly under threat by a existential brown note

[cosmic prawn]

Hunhow says he's broken I think, he can only work through his proxies and things like War

[graceful zodiac]

He's not broken, just tired

[livid portal]

Thank you

[cosmic prawn]

He refers to himself as destroyed in Natah

[fluid spoke]

He's also buried really deep in the oceans of Uranus, where the gravity is probably too high for him to escape directly

[graceful zodiac]

Yeah, he was in Natah and first waking up. Now it's been years since then

[cosmic prawn]

No, that he was destroyed in the Old War

[quick trail]

I love him 😭😭

[livid portal]

So the relay shows up in 12 minutes?

[quick trail]

He's so sweet

[azure solar]

MOOD

[azure solar]

"im too old for this" -Grandpa

[turbid gull]

Bro

This is beyond peak

Like omg that will be the only frame I play

It looks so cool I can't even, the techno devil design???? With garudas wings ephemera??? Gah

[undone lodge]

romanceable
damn
We’ll get our aroace proto one day 🙏

[faint thunder]

Jade's evil brother

[next bronze]

Edaj

[undone lodge]

Cinnabar

[tawny meteor]

MUSHROOM FRAME

[fluid spoke]

Harrow proto

Wisp

[astral relic]

1999 proto frames know about the Orokin??????????

[azure solar]

starts playing the underground mushroom theme from terraria

[next bronze]

Wtf

[peak heath]

I wasn't expecting that

Now I'll have to adjust my internal timeline of events for the lore, I had things slotted into certain order.

Don't get me wrong, I'm excited. But I had certain events come up in response to the Sentient invasion.

[turbid gull]

So....ig we get to play excal prime for all of one mission

Us lowly peasants are grateful

[south wigeon]

Okay, let me get this straight

[placid orbit]

Yeah, but... Huh? So... Another jump was performed, after the old war? I kinda figured our Lua pods were a permanent thing until that was fixed by Lotus.

[south wigeon]

This is not an alt-history and is from a time where Sentients and Tenno coexisted?

[peak heath]

From the sounds of it, this is memory of the actual past and not an eternalism alternate history.

A forgotten one

[thick jolt]

this is so confusing and i'm all for it

[peak heath]

But for example, weaponized Grineer, tenno connected to warframes all came about from the old war. Was there an uneasy peace in the middle? Perhaps

[thick jolt]

sounded like it
the tenno had a line about "can you imagine we were at war"

[peak heath]

So like, the war does happen, the outer colonies burn under infestation firewall to contain the senients. Grineer get weaponized, transference invented. We fight, we probably have a midway peace. But that peace gets spoiled?

[thick jolt]

maybe

there were also separatists apparently

[placid orbit]

So the kids jumped to and from Tau like it was nothing after all, once the old war was done?

[peak heath]

Presumably a method of doing so was made possible by the sentients, or discovered.

On the Zariman the Archimedian said that if we need to do it she's discovered a way to pull it off.

[thick jolt]

i think the old war could have been after the old peace ?
hunhow did say he destroyed the rail on the origin side

[uncut ocean]

Likely something to do with the Operator defending itself against the Sentient in the trailer and breaking Adis' heart, who seems to be some sort of important Sentient figure.

[peak heath]

This peace looks to be in the middle of the old war.

[wise basalt]

given that Adis seems to be capable of healing other Sentients... probably VERY important.

[plush swan]

Loid describes "The Old Peace" as a "twisted history" or smth, which makes me think it's an alternate timeline.

[thick jolt]

could be too

[thick jolt]

poluted memories
maybe because they were blocked

[peak heath]

But rebbecca mentioned it was strange that our focus school advancement required so many sentient parts.

[thick jolt]

yeah

[peak heath]

And yeah, this looks to be something the Orokin scrubbed from the minds of the Tenno.

[placid orbit]

Or a forbidden truth, Orokin propaganda and all that

[uncut ocean]

I want to agree, but seeing that 'present Tau' contains Adis' mask, I want to say that 'twisted history' means something like 'untold history.'

[timber cloud]

I am not prepared to get my heart ripped to pieces

[peak heath]

Neither were the sentient it seems

[timber cloud]

:(

[peak heath]

Our tenno is pretty pivotal to the plot. Canonically we're the tenno who made the tenno.

[uncut ocean]

Same, at least one or two as a vendor or something!
I imagine most of the 'other Operators' will be assumed to be other players

[peak heath]

An actual narriative anchor.

[timber cloud]

But that doesn't mean that the other tenno aren't effected by our actions

[peak heath]

Other tenno aren't allowed to do things it seems

[tight pagoda]

We've probably got 3 missions in Past-Tau at the end of the year then

Judging from the Helldivers mission select, lol

[peak heath]

Also Prime Grineer noggle on the second floor of the tennolive relay on the centre.

[timber cloud]

They're really going with "if we're not taking risks then we're not doing it right"

[uncut ocean]

Wait, it does seem very Helldivers like, you might be cooking with that
Maybe its three medium sized open areas that dynamically change based off of anarchist's attacks

[peak heath]

Pick it up before it is gone

[placid orbit]

I was kinda hoping for the reveal that we were Sentients all along, just latest Gen, more humanlike and thus resistant to the void, with unexpected side effects. And... The parents melted into Void Angels because they were not quite as far as we were. But alas.

[timber cloud]

We do have Rell

But he's gestures vaguely

[uncut ocean]

He's like, dead dead

[peak heath]

Oh no totally, this games narriative doesn't really allow for the active presence of the other tenno. We don't get to see them do things aside from one offs like Rell.

[real niche]

The other Tenno are just... other Tenno really.

[desert tiger]

I rylli like they wa t go more on story. Its funn to see

[timber cloud]

I mean do they have to do anything but like talk to use about tau school or whatever?

[real niche]

No different than something like GTA Online where you're the important guy and everyone else are just random dudes from your angle in the story

[desert tiger]

Yea.

But what you expect its not like helldivers 2 style game.

Loot rpg games have same stuff

[real niche]

Helldiver 2 no one's important lol

[placid orbit]

Hopefully there will finally be at least some hints for what the Sentients actually wanted for themselves.

[desert tiger]

I hope to. I rylli want know more abut it abd hope after ths whe get to see stuff on Queens and parvos what they up to when she mess araund entrait lab

[real niche]

I know absolutely squat about Destiny.

[obtuse gyro]

but I do

whats this about destiny?

[placid orbit]

From "kill all humans" to lovey-dovey those murder kids meant to murder us are friends now... Ya know...

[left slate]

I used too

Now it's all over the place

Now I'm lost

[desert tiger]

Yea same thing her. Can you blade them? Some people want more solo story but I wuld like co-op in story quests like ths

[uncut ocean]

From what I'm assuming is that after a defeat of the Old War, there was a period of 'Old Peace,' and likely something in the quest (maybe Adis rejecting his 'humanity' by taking off his mask after the Tenno slays a sentient) will be the catalyst of another conflict

[desert tiger]

Curent state of destyni lore end up whit hive family drama and auntie savathun geting angry on us.

[peak heath]

Doesn't help that in 1999 canonically our drifter is the only tenno active there. Honestly the Zariman hub area feels ideal for seeing the actions of other tenno but it doesn't really get explored. When you do Duviri the other tenno send you archguns but that's about it

[left slate]

Still? I feel like the hive has had the spotlight since the game came out

D1 I mean

[peak heath]

Fair, to find another example. In the undercroft defense missions we retcon past defeats by destroying foes before they're born. So that technically impacts other tenno. But it is us doing it.

[desert tiger]

Yea but it got worst whit voice actor stricks

I wabt to vomit when see wgat tgey don to game

[placid orbit]

Okay. But the general idea is that the Sentients did their job building the great rail, and also prepared stuff for the golden monsters. It could easily be that this peace was before any conflict. Obviously the Orokin disliked the Sentients, so why not have them train with those monster kids that were meant to go there anyway. Nice and far away in Tau. Then things happened, the Sentients got hacked, angry, yada yada, and the war begins. Now who to stop them but those that were their comrades? Perfect.

[obtuse gyro]

unfortunately adis and you already talk about both your kind already having been in a war against each other before

so its not prior to conflict, it seems its between conflict

[pseudo haven]

Were there any other collectibles other than prime grineer noggle at the tennocon relay?

[placid orbit]

Yeah, but impossible to know the extend currently

[obtuse gyro]

I mean we can tell that its not before the old war

on account of the warframes lying around

[placid orbit]

On Tau, though, so either it was initial trouble or they have their training dummies just laying around

[obtuse gyro]

the existence of warframes indicates very clearly that the Orokin and sentients had been at war before

if that was the case, it means that the orokin managed to kick sentient hiney enough by packing enough warframes Tauside before the sentients could break through

and thats on them losing to the sentients hard until they could develop the warframes

[placid orbit]

That time line just got so messy from so little to read from

[obtuse gyro]

its the least messy thing to know that warframes are in direct response to sentient threat

[obtuse gyro]

interesting...

[warm anvil]

it was shown for a single frame

[balmy storm]

When?

[warm anvil]

right when you connect to lotus

[balmy storm]

Oooo

[warm anvil]

this game is getting GOOD

[placid orbit]

More that whole academy and multiple factions on Tau-thing. I always assumed nobody but the Sentients ever managed getting there.

[hearty pendant]

i know that this probably has big lore implications but i can't get past the fact that it almost looks like a creepypasta-type edit

[warm anvil]

loid said it's tainted history

[obtuse gyro]

well, given adis's conversation with you, the Orokin finally land on Tau on account of the Old Peace

and then evidently something kicks the hornets nest again

because you can see someone stirring the poopoo

[placid orbit]

I figured we went from beating the Sentients to beating the drums real quick. But it looks like more happened in-between.

[obtuse gyro]

I think I get what you mean if Lua is targetted specifically, then yea pretty much it this old peace would have been before the Erra cutscene? But its all also depending when ballas sent hunhow the vitruvian

[still trench]

Guys

[prisma island]

https://youtu.be/_TYxgaavnB0?si=rY-TxvXwrqqiyv_t

[frigid current]

is this the right chat to ask how to access the proto-frame viewing in the relay? i’ve seen screenshots

[still trench]

So the sentients were never the true villain this whole time

We were the bad guys

[undone lodge]

No

[still trench]

We killed that sentient

[undone lodge]

A Sentient that was going to kill us

[still trench]

And our friend was mad at us

[balmy badger]

Killing something in self-defense does not make you a bad person if it's your only option.

[still trench]

We were the villains at that other sentient's eyes

[balmy badger]

But it's still a hard pill to swallow.

[undone lodge]

The Sentients weren’t villains or anything but they certainly weren’t particularly good either, since by all indication they didn’t differentiate between the Orokin caste and Orokin citizens

[still trench]

And what if that kid is somehow..

Hunhow?

[obtuse gyro]

Adis? Hunhow? No.

[still trench]

That would explain the hate towards us

[mellow marten]

So theyre giving us a big booty nun?

[still trench]

Honestly there was no need for more protoframes

[mellow marten]

Nuh uh

[sturdy shell]

Hunhullus might not be hunhow

[mellow marten]

Yes there is

Give us more DE

[undone lodge]

…If it was Hunhow we would’ve recognised us and acknowledged it

[still trench]

What I don't understand is

If the old peace quest will come this month

[undone lodge]

It’s coming in Fall

[still trench]

Then why tau will come in 2026?

[mellow marten]

Prolly december

[undone lodge]

As in, Autumn

[thorny barn]

A reminder that the average adult in the western world has a literature comprehension score lower than a 7th grade

[undone lodge]

Could be like Whispers and 1999

[wild wind]

big update

[obtuse gyro]

its not, its some other sentient machine according to the website

[mellow marten]

No fall is the update whit oberon rework (thanks DE) anything shown after that will be after the fall update imo december

[still trench]

Here I thought tau was a ship, not a whole system like the origin one

[tight pagoda]

We get past Tau this year, we get present Tau in a major update next year

[still trench]

??????

[obtuse gyro]

tau has always been a system/planet, where did you get "ship" from lmao

[tight pagoda]

Everything we saw in the demo was Tau in a flashback

[next bronze]

Do we know the names of new Protoframes?

[still trench]

I have a feeling that Caliban might be "important" for the next quest

[thorny barn]

Another reminder that the average adult in the western world has a literature comprehension score lower than a 7th grade level

[storm skiff]

when does new devil warframe arrive?

[obtuse gyro]

Jebus

[still trench]

Those sentient ships though

[next bronze]

Make it lower

[obtuse gyro]

Winter 2025

[obtuse gyro]

...

[undone lodge]

Why would they send Sentients and human ships to colonise a big sentient ship

[still trench]

That's true

But let me ask you guys one simple thing

[next bronze]

Okay so, are Wisp, Harrow and 3rd from the same cult or sth?

[still trench]

Are we close to the garbage Destiny 2 lore?

Like, an enemy that used to be our friend now somehow hates us

That never told us anything about it

[obtuse gyro]

1. Dont call D2 lore garbage lmao
2. Its very telling how you dont know why the Cabal and Eliksni are now our allies

[stray oriole]

now I know that the orokin were dumb enough to make SELF-AWARE terraforming machines in purpose

[still trench]

Rebel sentients?

[peak heath]

Probably from the Catheral of the Luminaries. With Harrow being some offshoot who theorizes of the void.

[still trench]

Technically speaking

Sentients and Tenno are the equivalent of Autobots and decepticons?

https://tenor.com/view/transformers-transformers-g1-transition-scene-transition-gif-3719776441229583090

[peak heath]

No, because Autobots and decepticons are technically the same "species"

[undone lodge]

Speaking of, is if still going well post-TFS?

[next bronze]

First time hearing about Catheral of the Luminaries

[sturdy shell]

So, the hunhullus have a resemblance to Albrechts vessels. DO we know if the vessels were created based on the sentient designs, or sentients adapted vessels to build a weapon?

[peak heath]

Gotta hook up with Eleanor to hear about it

[obtuse gyro]

Oh that I do agree, however... cabal eliksni allies are old news, one that this gentlemen seems to vaguelt recall, which seems to me that he was there when it happened.

[still trench]

Well someone said that there was bad bloods between the sentients

[next bronze]

I am currently but I don't remember that

Maybe I didn't get to that point yet

[still trench]

I don't personally think that ADIs alone will be somehow the main reason for the old war

[frail parcel]

Ordis play "Take me to church" by hozier

[obtuse gyro]

Adis appears to be a very important sentient according to the website

its possible that we might end up killing adis by force due to core override and thus we spark the second half of the old war

[frail parcel]

sorry if im justst being out of nowhere, i just got home from being with some friends and we were watching tennocon together

[still trench]

But how will all of this

Relate with this guy:

[peak heath]

When she's in your backrooms ask her what she's thinking of. She sometimes talks about the Catheral and how it looks like Angelic Techrot. Also she almost became a nun

[still trench]

https://tenor.com/view/the-man-in-wall-warframe-gif-24269482

[next bronze]

Ohhh okay, thank you. Not visiting backroom much 😅

[obtuse gyro]

We end as we began

[still trench]

Jesus bro.. everyone hates us

[next bronze]

Except Ostrons and Orb Vallis guys I guess

We were even fighting Dax now

😦

[still trench]

What about the grineer? And I'm sorry but why are we killing those Dax soldiers?

[umbral granite]

The sacrifice

[peak heath]

We've canonically killed scores upon scores of them. They were our enemies in the rebellion as servants of the Orokin oppressors.

[umbral granite]

Ballas betrayed the orokin

[next bronze]

Mm what if the Vor gets to the Tau and gets the genetic code of those Grineers?

[obtuse gyro]

vor hasnt existed yet at that time

[next bronze]

Like prime Grineer genetic code

[peak heath]

The Orokin were always the bad folks. It was their class/caste position.

[next bronze]

Yes but if he somehow gets to it with Janus key

Idk

Find an old relic or sth from those Grineers

[umbral granite]

He would need to unlock time travel

[next bronze]

Why

I just said relic

I am not talking about Old Peace but Tau when we go in 2026

[rancid condor]

"Last time you got close with the Sentients you wiped out an entire civilization... but you don't remember that, do you?" Wow we finally know what this means.

[mellow marten]

So quest is end of this year tau is end of next year?

[umbral granite]

By the time of warframes present any grineer remains would be long rotted beyond use

[rancid condor]

Seems like

[next bronze]

Yes, that's why I said a relic

[obtuse gyro]

I mean, we also did wipe out the Orokin civilisation

[next bronze]

like preserved

[umbral granite]

What relic

[rancid condor]

The "close with the sentients" part with the friend

[next bronze]

If that cacoon is still there in Tau when we go

[umbral granite]

Who would be doing the preserving exactly

[obtuse gyro]

close with the sentients can also be you and lotus

[umbral granite]

And why

[next bronze]

Idk

[next bronze]

The egg

[rancid condor]

We get the flashback questline first. Also the civilization could easily be the Orokin

[obtuse gyro]

and mind you Hunhows gang came over from tau, which indicates that sentient civilisation might live yet

[next bronze]

Since the female commander said she can breath there

[rancid condor]

Imagine if Salad shows up in The Old Peace as one of the protogrineer

[next bronze]

Hmmm

I am more interested in what someone said in the stream about sentient boss looking like Ropalopalyst

Or whatever is its name

[rancid condor]

How about the fact that the friend (forgot the name already) seemed to be using transference on it

[peak heath]

But at least the Orokin deserved what happened to them. We don't know what was up with the Sentients.

[next bronze]

Yeah that's hella weird

[rancid condor]

I mean it could easily just be robo equivalent like when the sentients latch the corpus grid in TNW

[next bronze]

If Sentient can use transference

[peak heath]

That seems less like transference and more like integrating themselves into the body. Like those larger fixtures are meant to meld with them.

[next bronze]

Isn't then Kuva a kind of transference when converts both your mind and body to the target when someone drinks it or similar?

[peak heath]

Less Warframe more gundam.

[next bronze]

That too

[rancid condor]

They weren't fighting to the death

[peak heath]

Powerscalers eating good.

[next bronze]

Oh, what if we bring the giant from Sanctum Anatomica to fight Hunhullus??

[obtuse gyro]

Adis? Transference?

Hunhullus is a sentient weapon

[rancid condor]

Adis was controlling Hunhullus and let go of control at the same time as the Operator did with Excal Prime.

[obtuse gyro]

this doesnt mean adis was using transference lmao

[rancid condor]

I didn't mean literally

They were drawing a thematic parallel between the abilities

[next bronze]

Gn guys

[rancid condor]

Like I said, it's probably just like how they hijacked the corpus robots

[peak heath]

I can see Hunhow yelling at Adis to get in the giant robot.

[rancid condor]

Is there a community consensus on whether this is the Operator's forgotten memory or if they're tapping into an alternate timeline version where the Zariman jumped to Tau successfully?

[fluid spoke]

It might be a version of their memory tampered by the lotus to protect their mind

[peak heath]

From Rebbeca's talking during the event this appears to be actual history that was buried in memory.

With additional context as to why Sentient parts are used in Tenno focus schools and the development of them. Plus the origins of Caliban and Caliban prime.

The Orokin weren't above directly mutilating the minds of their subjects. I imagine they probably did it to try to stop the Tenno from questioning why this peace was broken after it was broken.

[rancid condor]

Gotta escape that third dream.

[peak heath]

That Excal holding up the Hunilous or whatever it's called is fun knowledge because I like comparing them to other settings titular super soldiers.

Like that was basically getting stepped on by large Imperial Knight.

[rancid condor]

Operator, Drifter and... Boomer

[peak heath]

More like Raiden with that Metal Gear Revengence like sword cutting.

Loid, disable my pain inhibitors.

By the way, I 1000% approve of magical swords from hell being used to destroy building sized installations.

[pale flame]

operator getting them 3rd and 4th abilities it seems

[slender ledge]

big sword is naramon ult

[pale flame]

hell yeah

[peak heath]

Watch Zenurik just getting the ability to stop time since they already do time shennanigans.

[pale flame]

Vazarin restores 100% HP and energy and makes the whole team invulnerable for 60 seconds

[peak heath]

I do find it funny that they were supposed to be the expert strategists of tenno. I guess this tactic is just sweeping the board with a giant sword.

[slender ledge]

if you strategically remove their existence you win :)

[rancid condor]

"The devils from that hell" I just realised that the devilframe is associated with the new protoframes and Hollvania is "forest of hell"

[peak heath]

So Trinity's 4?

[tropic venture]

That line is referring to the Tenno. We are often called "Devils" or "Void Devils"

which sets a nice parallel to the Void Angels that serve Wally

[rancid condor]

Yes, but we're seeing Ballas at the earliest we've ever seen him.

He got the name from somewhere

[peak heath]

Also called Demons by many, especially the infestation. I'm excited for the Devil frame. What a lovely way to honour the late concept artist.

[mellow marten]

My brainfarted, we never made it to tau what the hell were we shown today

[tropic venture]

Zariman never made it. Then the Sentients were created, and they built the Solar Rail bridging Tau and Sol

[rancid condor]

But the Orokin did and that was before the Tenno rebelled, so they were presumably in Tau too.

[slender ledge]

theres no solar rail, hence the whole ballas eating the sun thing

[fluid spoke]

Were we called demons in the demo?
If not, we might see what happened that led to the moniker

[tropic venture]

Said Rail was destroyed by Hunhow during the Old War

[rancid condor]

I kinda assumed the rail was turned off (we have to turn all of them on again)

[slender ledge]

really, where in the lore can i find that info?

[tropic venture]

Hunhow destroyed it

[rancid condor]

that works too

[slender ledge]

oh right the damn mag prime codex

yeah ig some tenno were sent to tau during the war or even before

[wise basalt]

Likely during, and as far as can be told... this might be either an Armistice period, or a period before the war is actually sparked.

The Orokin have some kind of schism, one that results in the Dax Anarchs forming as a force, and develop a way to override Sentients.

Also of Very interesting note... the Core-overridden Sentient's colours. Looks familiar to the Murexes we encounter, doesn't it?

[graceful zodiac]

It's baseline after the War has started

[mellow marten]

Another question, when the op opened that portal excal moved "by itself" for a brief moment does this mean we can control the warframes?

[tropic venture]

Blue energy pulled from Tau, yellow/red energy pulled from Sol

[mellow marten]

Also what we saw today was before we could transference into the frames since we used that chair right???

[tropic venture]

That chair is after Margulis seals away our memories, which weakens our powers

[wise basalt]

Yes, it would be. Though, it's important to note that at some point, our memories and powers were sealed, thus necessitating the chair.

[mellow marten]

Dam ok, i need to replay the quests

Yeah but at that point we already had mastered transference and stuff

I though that was smth we only did after that quest

[rancid condor]

seemingly more than we have now

[mellow marten]

Not that lotus sealed our memories

[tropic venture]

Tenno get rescued from Zariman -> Put into stasis -> Transference for Warframes is discovered -> Tenno are trained for combat -> Margulis puts us in The Dream to forget Zariman -> Old War fully picks up -> Natah/Lotus puts us in The Second Dream to forget The Old War

[rancid condor]

"She erased you" - Teshin

[tropic venture]

Margulis sealed our Zariman memories, Lotus sealed our Old War memories

[tropic venture]

That's regaining our old powers and memories

[mellow marten]

Wrdd

[slender ledge]

seems like the story is gonna be the prelude/beginning to the war leading to the sabotage of the rail

[rancid condor]

With the wall running it feels like they're setting up the intro video where Excal does that

Also similar dunked in water transference scene

[formal grove]

sudden theory I had

the Sentient machine Adis used when playing with the Operator was called Hunhullus

sound familiar?

[rancid condor]

I think it's just a linguistic connection

Let's assume that Hunhow is "Destroyer of worlds", Hunhullus could be "Caretaker of worlds" etc

Yeah Hunhow and Praghasa were the progenitors

But we didn't see any beasts

Maybe they were a wartime creation

[tropic venture]

yeah I hope we get to see the Beasts

[tropic venture]

They were not, they're among the oldest

they "ruled" Tau

[rancid condor]

For them to rule tau requires getting rid of the orokin doesn't it?

Ohhh ignore me

Ballas isn't actually there, it's like a hologram

[quick trail]

Or it's just a classification thing

Like that idea though don't get me wrong :))

[rancid condor]

they just dropped the music

[cinder steppe]

The Sentient boss collapsed like a Warframe when the small sentient friend stopped controlling it.

I feel like this is a hint to us controlling them at some point

[slender ledge]

i think thats reaching but who knows

[cinder steppe]

Also Ropalolyst

[tropic venture]

it also had a Vessel face

[cinder steppe]

Yes I'm glad you point this out because I noticed this too

Wait it also has the third eye on its forehead like the vessels do. But this one glows where the vessels one are more engraved like it's incomplete

[wise basalt]

The Vessels came after the Hunhullis, a creation of Albrecht's. Likely created as a sort of attempt at a failsafe, should the Hunhullis have been brought to Sol.

[rancid condor]

Well that's totally not terrifying.

single frame when the operator says "again" and gets plugged in

[fluid spoke]

Or the Tau sentients have their own version of transference that the Sol sentients lost

[rancid condor]

It's probably just being used because of its association with Ballas the but track that plays when entering the Tauron Academy is The Veil.

[cinder steppe]

Perhaps they had void power but lost them because they crossed the gab?

[rancid condor]

Remember they hijack the Corpus robots in TNW.

[opaque dove]

What the hell

[rancid condor]

They did say what's coming next is going to be very dark

Hmm "Can you believe we used to be at war." There was a previous sentient rebellion that failed?

[fluid spoke]

The incident with Margulis is definitely on the table to be shown on screen, with that brief flash of her without her eyes

[cinder steppe]

Btw I noticed with lullaby of the manifold that it starts the same way as the Ballas soundtrack in the Sacrifice quest. With the French horns... Same notes.

[fluid spoke]

I thought that was more their nanotechnology at work assimilating it rather than hijacking it like we can with people like the Hex

[cinder steppe]

Looked up that particular soundtrack again and no it doesn't start that way but rather those notes are in the middle. But they are the same notes as in the start of Lullaby

https://youtu.be/04vxCRT0JS0?si=2gwfX-DVEU80pgK5

0:40

Wait no... Lullaby is a different note but similar

https://youtu.be/yPKo04oNQ9k?si=njLwLvdZrt78tfMW

[rancid condor]

Hmm going back to the whole thing about Adis piloting Hunhullus, Adis is being trained in the Tenno ways as proof of his adaptive evolution. They may be trying to artificially replicate Tenno powers in Sentients.

Would tie in with Caliban Prime too

[tropic venture]

seems like it

[rancid condor]

tested by the seven, so it's them running the show. Presumably because they don't trust the tenno

The demo is definitely an abbreviated version of the quest

because one of the locations on Perita is already cleared

Another observation - if Dax are able to rebel they must have access to Kuva.

[tropic venture]

or an Orokin is secretly leading them

[drifting sparrow]

or whoever is leading the anarchs

[tropic venture]

hmm I wonder who that could be

[rancid condor]

Heh, who do we know who likes to play both sides

[peak heath]

I don't think this is a true rebellion. This smells of colour rev, a fake movement propped up by external forces. So the Orokin wanting the project to die.

Hence the "rebel" Dax

[tropic venture]

wanting the Tenno and Sentients to kill eachother so Tau will be fully free for the Orokin

[peak heath]

Exactly, these anarchs aren't actual anarchists. But a conflict brewed up to destabilize things for Orokin domination.

Plus how would they get so well supplied in a system with a strong central government of such oppression like the Orokin?

Also it's intreresting to notice that sentients I thought were drones of larger ones, such as conculysts and whatnot. Possess full awareness.

[drifting sparrow]

they wouldn't be "sentient" if they didn't to be fair

[tropic venture]

those are called Fragments

they're not full-on their own Sentients

[rancid condor]

Right, because there had already been conflict and only the separatists are continuing it.

Someone didn't want to stop

[karmic thorn]

i absolutely love lullaby of the manifold

[atomic saddle]

Ok, I am as confused as I am hyped. I am seeing a lot of disagreements on something, and I hoped maybe you guys could clear something up for me?

The key disagreement I keep seeing:

1. We are going back in time to the past Tau via memories, and then we will go to Tau as it is.

2. We are seeing an alternative reality of Tau, what could have been. Then we are going 5o Tau as it currently is.

Is this something that's still just not confirmed? Is this "something something eternalism", one of these stances just incorrect?

[umbral willow]

WHYYYYYY

[waxen sphinx]

Idk which one of these are good ;-;

[thick jolt]

they are just memories not time travel as far as we can tell now

both from lotu's and loid's arguement and from promotional material by DE

[fluid spoke]

Ohh, those are both good, depending on what you're building for. The first one looks slightly better if you're not relying on slash to do most of the damage, but there is a melee mod that increases crit chance depending on combo count

[slender ledge]

after reminding myself of the order of historic events the old peace has to take place after the old war but before the tenno revolt, hence why adis talks about how we used to be at war and a treaty

[golden stream]

do we know who canonically makes mods in Warframe random thought

[slender ledge]

i thought it was like right before the war but it has to be after since warframes were made duiring the old war, and wouldve never fought alongside a sentient unless after a treaty

[soft lotus]

Guys why ||is Ballas back?||

[real niche]

This is the past

[golden stream]

i did the research and seems like a cephalon made some

[soft lotus]

Bro is the purple guy of Warframe
"I always come back"

[real niche]

Alternate timeline, altered memories, just the actual past, take your pick on what's going on.

[soft lotus]

Hard to say it's The Past™ since eternalism is annoying with time travel

[real niche]

What?

[soft lotus]

The Drifter and the Operator are a good example I suppose
It's not time travel, since that would be too simple

[real niche]

I mean the past as in going to the past through Lotus's memories.

[golden stream]

new head canon the new racist cephalon is the one who made all the bane mods

[soft lotus]

Oh

[real niche]

Not time travel.

[soft lotus]

Huh
That sound exciting

[soft lotus]

Warframe racism lore real

[hearty pendant]

yeah i'll incorporate that into my belief system

[fluid spoke]

We're sifting through our memories of pre-outer terminus, which means he is still alive back then

[plush swan]

Is it just me, or does the underside of Adis's wings look like the underside of Wisp's scarves?

[inner ferry]

What is this do you think? was during the reveal for the new quest. Thsi is Lotus right?

[plush swan]

Margulis with her eyes burned out

[inner ferry]

What is the differenc ebetween Lotus and Marg? just different period in their life or?

[opaque dove]

Ones a sentient, the other isn’t

[fast tundra]

Margulis is the person Lotus was based on

[inner ferry]

Ah. so Marg is the original human and Lotus is the sentient?

[fast tundra]

Yes

[inner ferry]

Ah okay gotcha. Only started paying atttention to the lore when 1999 came out. Thanks 😄

[fast tundra]

Lotus is what happened to Narmer when Ballas brainwashed her

if you want to know how much Ballas sucks, go play the Umbra quest

[inner ferry]

Yea... I still remember that one, ever after all the years. think its been years anyways.

[fast tundra]

hes literal trash

[manic lichen]

where did you find this???

[inner ferry]

I need ot just find a good lore deep dive.

[inner ferry]

Was during the live stream when they were showing the quest off

6:55:02 in the last vod on twitch specifically

its just there for a frame or so

[fast tundra]

We know the next place is Tau, the lulaby song is from the Sewntient perspective

[manic lichen]

so-

we were showed half of whats coming THIS YEAR but we have yet to be shown whats coming in 2026??

[fast tundra]

oh whaaat Excalibur Prime on Tau

HUH

[plush swan]

So, there's the original Margulis, who was a fleshy human.

And then there's a the current Margulis, who (along with Natah and the Lotus) is one of the identities of a Sentient.

[fast tundra]

Natah

[spice wyvern]

we have margulis 1 and margulis 2

[fast tundra]

Oh the new thing looks really cool

[plush swan]

Having an easter egg where we meet baby Natah would be hilarious

[mental thicket]

man that frame of margulis is so cursed

[long plover]

Is the Drifter stuff getting a remaster too this year?

[zealous cairn]

It's definitely Margulis.
There's a rare line in isleweaver right here
So
The operator may have been the one who blinded Margulis in the first place

[signal token]

welp i finally did it

took around 2 reset but it works

[spice wyvern]

made something

[mortal forum]

Soooooo... what's up with the guy in the new trailer

THE prime

[peak heath]

Apparently the two new romances exist separately from the 1999 content meaning you can do one of them and one of the Hex romances at the same time.

The 1999 are romancable by the drifter. While the priest and the nun are romancable by the operator.

At least according to the article I read on it.

[hearty pendant]

gonna need a source on that one

[peak heath]

Eurogamer

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post links.

[hearty pendant]

no reason for protos to exist outside of 1999, though
and also romance as operator is weird. just. generally.
that was a big part of why drifter went back and not operator

and the narrative panel mentioned three new protos that would be romanceable

[peak heath]

I hope I'm just misunderstanding the article. And that the drifter is the one to handle such romance if it's there.

[warm anvil]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1082776504842342492/1396335003117420624/Desktop2025.07.19-19.55.40.06-ezgif.com-video-to-gif-converter4.gif

turned it into a gif bc it rocks

[hearty pendant]

real, i am stealing it

[warm anvil]

im uploading it to tenor rn as well

but you guys the the preview 😎

bc youve def never seen this before I turned it into a gif

[graceful zodiac]

That's definitely inaccurate

[peak heath]

Thank goodness.

[hearty pendant]

yeah i'm trying to find whatever they're talking about w/ megan saying you don't have to worry about 1999 relationships

[warm anvil]

the next 3 protoframes are romanceable and I dont know if DE has expanded upon the lore of the sol/lua religion

[lofty girder]

Wasn't the whole point of making 1999 and protoframe related stuff drifter only, because the Operator is physically a child?

[graceful zodiac]

Yes

[warm anvil]

lore-wise its to keep operator seperated from the indifference

[peak heath]

Exactly, I was weirded out by the Eurogamer article.

[warm anvil]

they said the next 3 proto frames are able to be romanced this stream btw

[lofty girder]

I mean Eleanor is probably as down bad as most of the playerbase over Wisp-proto, but that's a separate discussion

[warm anvil]

so the lua/sol devil warframe? worshippers are datable it seems

[hearty pendant]

nothing in the stream as far as i can tell
she says almost nothing in the entire Devil's Triad section

[warm anvil]

and ig the demon as well

[warm anvil]

the writer said during last panel that they were datable

[lofty girder]

I mean, the demon is called Uriel, which is an angel name

[warm anvil]

the story panel

[warm anvil]

demons are angels cast out from hell arent they

[lofty girder]

Also the classic trope of religious figures handling/controlling supposedly demonic entities

[hearty pendant]

yeah. i'm trying to find whatever this eurogamer article is talking about
like. the new protos weren't known prior to tennocon.. at all?
unless in-person people got sneak peaks or whatever
no sources for this whole section

like this might be generated garbage ngl

[lofty girder]

Plus, Albrecht's lines about Uriel... I think Uriel is the punishment for evil, rather than actually being evil

[lofty girder]

Game journos producing slop? Tell me it can't be tru!?

[hearty pendant]

yeah lol

why can't i report this for misinfo lmao
seems like something they should have

[peak heath]

Yeah it feels like a slop article the more you dig into it. Plus where would they fit these protos in? My guess is they're connected to the Cathedral of Luminaries which is in 1999s world. It's the only place it makes sense.

[lofty girder]

Also that image of Margulis after the eyeball incident is freaking horrifying to me, especially since I live in SEA and the popular trope for evil vengeful spirits are scorned women with black splotches for eyes

[warm anvil]

4 hours 55 minutes of the stream, "3 new proto frames and they will be date-able"

[hearty pendant]

oh interesting

[peak heath]

For all of that Orokin biotech they couldn't give her new eyes?

Or even augmentic ones?

[hearty pendant]

probably could, unless void burns are wildly different from regular ones for some reason

[lofty girder]

Void shenanigananery, prolly interfering with the healing process

[warm anvil]

lazy

they just didnt wanna

[lofty girder]

Mothers going after unfilial kids, wives scorned by cheating husbands, etc etc

[lofty girder]

Ballas probably had a hand in that, the [GRAKATA]

[wild wind]

The Devil's Triad are specifically passing judgment on the Orokin though, which means they're post-1999, somehow

[peak heath]

Judgment but the only Orokin we hear is entrati. Which means he went to go spike some religious folks with Helminth and then went to confess.

[wild wind]

Maybe? It's still more likely that it'll be the Orokin caste though.

Albrecht didn't identify as an Orokin in the past

[peak heath]

Oh no 100% judgment upon the caste/class. Which I would say no, they're not redeemable and should remain destroyed.

[wild wind]

Absolutely

Guessing they're playing Devil's Advocate tho

[lofty girder]

Albrecht only stopped feeling like orokin after his wally encounter

[hearty pendant]

Lyon and Marie's clothing still looks 1999-esque
not sure. can the orokin be forgiven for things they've not yet done?

[peak heath]

Lyon apparently has visions of the future.

[lofty girder]

They can't be forgiven no matter what. Individuals can be redeemed, but the system can't

[peak heath]

The abolishing of such classes, like the aristocracy, is a sign of progress. Returning the Orokin would be a regression of the Origin system.

[lofty girder]

Quite fitting then, our new protoframes are French inspired

Bring out the guiletines!

[hearty pendant]

between the religious theming and Lyon's future visions, i don't think its impossible for them to remain 1999 protos, and albrecht is just asking them about it

[peak heath]

Also Albrecht just giving someone the power to open portals to the sun. Sure, he already gave wormholes and antimatter to someone but goodness that's just reckless.

I mean, it's all going to get cooked in the inevitable coming radiation wars. But still.

[hearty pendant]

albrecht, picking which batches to give out in 1999: "lol. lmao."

[peak heath]

I wonder if the wisp proto will talk about being constantly invisible, flying, and potentially losing their feet.

Though she could probably just have wisp flight without losing the ability to stand.

[lofty girder]

I think she has boots, but they could also just be there to cover the hole where her feet were

[peak heath]

I do find it funny that for whatever reason, father Lyon has decided to rock the crop top. Like, not exactly a traditional frock.

[lofty girder]

Self flagelence, since, ya know, harrow

[peak heath]

Does that mean his back will be all cut up? Or does Warframe regeneration fix that.

[lofty girder]

Probably trigger someone's phobia if his back just opened a dozen cuts and then suddenly closed

[peak heath]

First DE came for the arachnophobes, then they came for the Triphopobes.

[lofty girder]

Now real question, will Proto-Harrow tell us what herbs and spices are in the Thurible? What exactly is the Burning Bush?

[hearty pendant]

apparently duviri hit my friend's trypophobia
so other way around, i suppose

[obtuse gyro]

Regen probably would fix it, the hex already talk about how their regen is fast enough

[lofty girder]

Im now imagining Harrow and Velimir sitting in the back of the bar discussing their favorite cigars

[unreal basin]

idk should I put it here but... by the Seven what is this...

[hearty pendant]

we were just talking about it in #lore-discussion

[unreal basin]

Thank u, I'll check now

[rain otter]

Margulis probably.

[uncut ocean]

As above said, Margulis. Margulis was stated to have been blinded by an out-of-control Tenno. That was likely the state she was left in. Very chilling.

[thick jolt]

Also interesting that appears when we are delving in our memories
Memories locked by margulis herself as far as we know

[signal token]

awesome

space trauma regained

all for nought

[faint thunder]

Me looking at both Lyon and Marie while romancing Lettie: «Désolée mon chou, mais Marie et Lyon m'appellent.»

[amber terrace]

Is it just me or does it feel like we have two different story arcs going on at the same time, we have the Sentient/Tau storyline and then we have the Wally/WITW/1999 storyline and aside from Albrecht saying that Tau is in sight in the 1999 quest, it feels like these two thematics and plots are mostly separate

[hearty pendant]

based on what lotus attempts to say, but is cut off, we're looking for albrecht or a way to albrecht in our memories. likely as a way to get to tau in current origin

[chilly pine]

makes sense, drifters in 1999 dealing with wally while operator is in the present dealing with the sentients, everything collides at tau

[jagged sphinx]

I’m probably the 1000th person to do this today, but I couldn’t resist

Was gonna put that in fan art but it has 1hr slow mode and I forgot the spoiler cover

[dusky shore]

Huh?

Glad I found this in the morning instead of last night.

[placid orbit]

Not very Orokin of the Orokin to send their best weapon against the dirty rebellious murder robots in person, instead of transference, to said robots for high school sitcom stuff instead of eradication.

[obtuse gyro]

But it would be very Ballas to engineer a time of peace between the Orokin and Sentients, break the peace by shadow-backing the separatists, causing the war to restart, leading up to the part where he easily ends up consolidating power in a shattered empire

[tropic venture]

Would be a way to frame the blame of conflicts on others

[placid orbit]

Schemes, I see. Still odd, as trouble in Tau wouldn't be as much of an issue as it would have been right at the doorstep of the other Orokin in the origin system

[tropic venture]

Letting the Tenno and Sentients kill eachother so the Orokin can move into the now-empty Tau

[obtuse gyro]

Exactly... which is why when war picks back up the fighting evidently goes back to Origin

[placid orbit]

Guess we will have to see how and why there even are so many folks in Tau that they can get funny ideas

Was ever stated that other ships than the Zariman as the first and failed project had been sent? Probably not, but the opposite neither. Man. Imagine the space docks able to churn out Zariman class ships. The asteroid belt would be stripped to nonexistance and the Grineer would live in wreckage of that ancient structure instead of space rocks.

[hearty pendant]

kim dialogue w/ eleanor
definitely not zariman ten-zero sized

[placid orbit]

Well, that was before. Still, all those then fighting folks would need to have gotten there and with support infrastructure, too.

[obtuse gyro]

they used the rail to go over

[placid orbit]

The air wasn't fully breathable yet either. So to feed, house and generally keep alive so many people there must be many ships of massive size.

[placid orbit]

Not to mention there would need to be huge numbers to form separatists from anyway.

But, I know. We never went through hydroponics or nutrient sludge factories in Corpus or Grineer ships, logistics never mattered

Folks are just there, they don't need toilets, they just have to be canon fodder

[thick jolt]

You say that yet we have seen bunks and showers in grineer bases
We have "decoration" for solaris food
Think the corpus ship rework had whatever passes as a bunk for them
Also worm threatening to send grineer to the protein repurposing center or however she worded it

But as bau mentioned
With the rail still there ferrying supplies wouldnt really be an issue, especially in a time of peace

[placid orbit]

Yeah, that's true. Still, it would need to be on a massive scale, that's why I assumed there need to be more ships like the Zariman, or many smaller ones

[thick jolt]

No need for one huge ship if the rails are there

[placid orbit]

They have to live somewhere while they are not dying

There would need to be processing, distribution.

[thick jolt]

Like the academy and ships we see there?

[placid orbit]

Too small, I say. Logistics is a nightmare

[thick jolt]

Clearly supply lines and some infrastructure was set up if they had an academy there

They very clearly aren't like making do with sticks and stones

[placid orbit]

With one supply line but different factions at war it is a lot messier than that

Well, maybe that academy and union are slightly self-sufficient, so the rebels could hog the rail, admittedly

But then the Orokin in the origin system would need to be fully blind to everything. They couldn't possibly be that incompetent, even with Ballas' meddling

[obtuse gyro]

I mean, if the US can set up a functional burgerking anywhere in 24 hrs

im sure the orokin empire wouldnt need so much time to set up supply lines

[placid orbit]

But the one line is the one rail

[obtuse gyro]

which they presumably controlled while fighting in Tau

they just need to cross and then supply lines can diversify

[thick jolt]

Wait wait
This whole time you were talking about the separatists supply lines?

No wonder i felt something was off about the convo

[placid orbit]

So the separatists should be starving - or have their own support ships

[placid orbit]

Well, ya 😀 I meant everyone having to get their stuff somehow someway

[graceful zodiac]

They would have their own ships, but nothing on the scale of the Zariman

[thick jolt]

I was completely misunderstanding your focus lol

[obtuse gyro]

same lol

i was thinking the actual empire not these separatist goons

which feed back into: ballas might be supplying them

[placid orbit]

And mask it as piracy by them

[thick jolt]

Possible yeah

[placid orbit]

I was just trying to point out the scale of things. Something that looks like a larger conflict in a secluded space, with everyone sharing the same bridge? Difficult

[obtuse gyro]

classic andor things lol

[thick jolt]

Guess it depends on how large the battlefield used to be

Like in the demo they used what was described as an old emplacement so scavenging might have worked

[placid orbit]

Then again, maybe there even are multiple habitable planets in Tau, some further along in terraforming than others. Would I like some more phantom menace in warframe? Actually, yeah

[thick jolt]

We also dont have a reference on how long the separatists have been going

[thick jolt]

And then the possibility of a backer like ballas

[toxic berry]

Does Old Peace even make sense time line wise?
Don't the Tenno come back during the Old War, meaning there was no time possible where Old Peace can take place on Tau?

Loid says that those are "polluted histories" so maybe an alternative time line?

[robust frost]

Rebecca did say "in a another time and place" so that very well could be

[obtuse gyro]

kinda

[toxic berry]

Wonder how Lotus can access those alternate time lines in that case

[obtuse gyro]

the immediately incorrect assumption is that this takes place before the old war

because even the demo itself tells us that the orokin and sentient were at war before

[hearty pendant]

split the old war in two, put the old peace in the middle
tenno + warframes | old peace | hunhow destorying the origin solar rail

[toxic berry]

We know that the Orokin Empire fell near the end of Old War, or at the end of Old War.

When in the time line does Old Peace fit?

[obtuse gyro]

in the middle of the old war

[undone lodge]

After the “end” of the Old War

[robust frost]

I think the real focus of all of this, something thats definitely more important above all else is Protowisp and her being a French Nun 😍

[toxic berry]

So basically there were 2 old wars separated by The Old Peace is what you say

[obtuse gyro]

there was one old war that was on pause by a peace treaty

[undone lodge]

The Tenno began killing the Orokin during the “victory” celebration

[robust frost]

Kinda like WW1 and WW2, separated by an uneasy peace

[thick jolt]

Gonna put this here for reference too
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/786650808321048596/1396313382038016041/image.png?ex=687da1ac&is=687c502c&hm=4194c6c51cec6110d88a9e9b843829c13f5474e8d2b70b8898b6ad8ce8534260&

[astral jackal]

Man
DE made me break up with Eleanor for Wisp
That's cruel of them

[robust frost]

I see you also found religion? 😏🍑😂

[astral jackal]

Yeah... Although I expected Harrow to look more like a orthodox Christian pope
With long robes, hood and all

[night grail]

I that her eyes are similar to the sun

[rain otter]

It could.

[tropic venture]

How much of what we see is accurate is unclear yeah

[rain otter]

We only know the very start and end of the old war. @toxic berry

We know even less

About The Tau side of this conflict.

[astral jackal]

I hope that we could find a way to kinda... Reconnect with sentients
They seemed nice

[tight pagoda]

It doesn't seem like an alternate timeline, it just seems like our past

The Tenno forgot a lot about their life thanks to the Second Dream

We're unlocking those memories (and unlocking new abilities from Focus schools because of it)

[astral jackal]

I know, but still

[night grail]

I hope adis isnt on his villain arc after that

[rain otter]

That's what the 2nd update will be about

[unique nymph]

Which means Adis is the villain of the 2026 update

[tropic venture]

Adis' role in present Tau is unknown

[toxic berry]

doesn't mean that

[tropic venture]

I think Pazuul will definitely be there, but wether Adis will be isn't clear (it's even possible Adis became Hunhow or Erra, we know so little atm that anything is on the table)

[unique nymph]

I can't imagine Adis is too happy with us though, "you killed the sentient and then left for hundreds/thousands/millions of years"

[toxic berry]

I hope we can save Erra

although he definitely needs to get punished for betraying Lotus

[tropic venture]

oh yeah he's far from fully innocent

but rn he's a victim to Pazuul nonetheless, and he does want to at least try to redeem himself as seen both at the end of TNW and by him slipping through sometimes during Archon Hunts

[balmy cape]

I wonder if wisp proto is going to be like curie from fallout 4

Oui oui

[pliant spade]

first ordis is a penguin, now he's an owl

what next?, he become bird 3?

[tropic venture]

that's not Ordis, it's a different Cephalon just with a similar model Sentinel body

[pliant spade]

i'm just gonna call him owldis for now

[toxic berry]

that's a different cephalon

[pliant spade]

ik

[robust frost]

Ngl, her face kinda reminds me of Alice from Twilight 😍😅

https://tenor.com/view/alice-cullen-alice-twilight-alacakaranlık-gif-gif-24960141

Tell me Im wrong. I DARE YOU

[balmy cape]

You are simply correct

[rain otter]

Do you wanna hear my favorite Twilight Fun fact?

[robust frost]

I mean... I live Twilight but shoot 😂

[rain otter]

Oh lmao I might be owned then. It was just The like "Team Jacob Team Ewdard" shit was so one sided like comically so that she had to do character assassination in the next book.

That's just funny to me.

[robust frost]

FACTS! But when I say I "live Twilight" I mean that I went to school where they filmed the school scenes (Kalama High), I used to live next door to Bellas house (Hood River), and I grew up hiking the Columbia River Gorge

Hoa hoa hoa is in my blood

[rain otter]

Didn't they go to forks just cuz she looked up like

"Rainest town"

[robust frost]

Basically. Forks is right on the edge of the Olympic National Rainforest in Washington and gets an average of 120in (10ft) of rain a year

[rain otter]

That series has many problems many many problems but so many things ars funny. She accidentally writes a better lesbain love story than straight one. She accidentally makes a trans man character.

Very funny.

[robust frost]

Rains about 206 of the 365 days a year there 😂

So they take the sunny summer VERY SERIOUSLY

[cinder steppe]

Someone in the clan chat came with an interesting theory: this demo takes place during a brief period of peace but Ballas went out of his way to erase any trace of it so no one remembers

[tropic venture]

Yeah that is the current theory, which would explain why Dax are fighting against us

[rain otter]

Probably.

[tropic venture]

There's a good chance Teshin and Valeria will be fighting there, and that's how Valeria is killed by a Tenno

[cinder steppe]

Well I think the Dax are fighting against us because of a false flag attack to stop this peace

[tropic venture]

yes, but Dax must follow Orokin command

if they were fighting on their own, they could easily just be ordered to stop

[cinder steppe]

Yes that's why I think it's a false flag attack.

[tropic venture]

so there seems to be some Orokin (hmm I wonder who) secretly leading the anarchs

[fleet veldt]

I want to know what'd happen if that Sentient song of restoration was recited in Voidtongue; could it cleanse them of the Flaw?

And, I feel certain of this:
The Dax/Grineer Seperatist movement helped/led/kickstarted the (second) Sentient revolt - likely at Ballas' behest or on word of a scapegoat-colleague-traitor - which could be where the ancestral Sentient (Hunhow, Praghasa, Natah) began their march to Sol to try and bring an end to the conflict.

There, Hunhow returned the favour; unshackled the Grineer, though Regor will never know this was why.

[rain otter]

We only saw Dax

As the sepratists

[cinder steppe]

Interesting

[tight pagoda]

Also reminds me of the 'fail' screen in War Within

[tropic venture]

yeah

[cinder steppe]

Do you happen to have a screenshot?

[tight pagoda]

Not immediately, sorry, I'll try and find one!

It's a bit tough finding one, seems like walkthroughs don't have any fail states (because why would they) and searching up "War Within Fail" just comes up with how much WoW sucks

I'll try and get one myself within a week, though!

[cinder steppe]

The scene also plays out similarly: wakes up from a dream, needing to grasp for air, followed up by this position trying ti swim up for air. Except in the first shot we were alone but later we had Loid to help us

[cinder steppe]

I used to fail it quite a bit back in the day when this quest launched

[tight pagoda]

The pose is definitely different but it's just a similar vibe, floating in space

[fluid verge]

What do I get out of "Attempt New Year's Eve again"?

[cinder steppe]

Doesn't matter. Just do it

[balmy badger]

The Sacrifice also reuses that same fail screen if you die during the final Umbra fight.

[cinder steppe]

The experience alone is worth more than the actual reward

[fluid verge]

Then I ain't doing it lol

[cinder steppe]

No I mean it's because the experience of doing it is good

[balmy badger]

You get a pack of Noggles of all the Hex members for doing it.

[fluid verge]

And do I have to befriend them again?

[balmy badger]

No.

[fluid verge]

Oh okay, I thought my progress with them would reset

[balmy badger]

The Finale quest does not reset your chemistry with them.

[fluid verge]

Okay thanks guys

[opaque dove]

I saw that way too much

[hidden jolt]

Any of you caught a glimpse of this within the 25 min demo? In between the 2nd time Operator wakes up from the memory

[opaque dove]

Yep

[hidden jolt]

Probably how Margulis looked after she got blinded by the kids. But still creepy af

[tacit rivet]

I was watching that bit just now. I thought I was seeing things then I went frame by frame and got jump scared

[fleet veldt]

Probably a holdover from whatever Margulis imprint data Ballas fed Natah to make Lotus.

Maybe Lotus is looking for something bespoke to assist us in fighting The Indifference?

[tight pagoda]

Ty!

@cinder steppe this one!

[cinder steppe]

Saved it

People are acting surprised that Loid is so caring.

Not like we had an entire quest about how caring Loid really is.

[night grail]

He's a little rough around the edges and I would be too if I just got out of stasis, still freshly heartbroken and bitter having to clean up that mess

But he is a good guy, he's the reason the cavia are alive, TWICE

[covert tree]

Oh one third of space mom what did they do to you

[tight pagoda]

It's also crazy how callous Lotus is

[zenith jacinth]

Well margulis was blinded by rell

That would presumably be how

[covert tree]

Give me a second to look up what this word means its to big for my feeble mind

[tight pagoda]

"Mean" for lack of a better word

Or rather... indifferent

[covert tree]

🤨 indifferent

Hmmmmmmm🤔

[tight pagoda]

I'm not implying anything there, that's why I used callous, but my main concern is that she doesn't seem motherly in the slightest. Not too concerned with what might happen to us

And Loid is the voice of reason, making sure we're fine and trying to stop us from being harmed by the memories

I mean it could just be her believing in us and knowing our strengths, or just knowing that even if it hurts us, this is something we need to do

[covert tree]

I dont think the lotus would ever want us to suffer without reason that'd help us

[zenith jacinth]

She seems less reluctant to let the tenno come to harm after the new war

Excuse any mistypes my brain is melting from high temperatures

[covert tree]

It could be all the voices in her head or her trying to make the tenno stronger to go against the indifference (im not the best with lore)

[night grail]

Theres something up with her

And i dont think i like it

[cinder steppe]

"If I ever become something you don't recognize, do not weep"

That's her quote in the Sanctum

[night grail]

"I will not let It devour one instant of my pain. Not even Ballas. Not even the Jade Light." Made me remember Along Came a Spider

How wally was taking rusalka's emotions one by one until it took her

[cinder steppe]

I think Along Came A Spider is like REALLY important to understanding how the situation with Rusalka and how Wally picks his heralds.

[turbid gull]

Ngl

Wisp looking like a nun is so peak

That plus the devil frame will look so cool together

[jovial pollen]

Cut off t harrow

[nimble bridge]

So, regarding the timeline surrounding the Old Peace, I just wanted to check my facts here:

• Sentient technology is invented, and then they are sent at sublight speed to Tau in order to prepare it for the Orokin.

• The Zariman is built and is paraded across the system, with the goal of colonizing the assumed-terraformed Tau

• The void jump fails, and after a period spent missing, the Zariman reappears and the children are consigned to Lua and their records expunged to cover up the disaster.

• The sentients realize the Orokin will ruin Tau like they did the Origin system, and go to war to defend it, burning their wombs to travel through the void.

• The Old War begins, and after several failed attempts to counter the Sentients, the Zariman children are united with the Warframes to create the Tenno.

• The Tenno defeat the Sentients at Lua and Uranus, driving the attackers from the system.

We assumed that was where it ended, but now:

• The War ends, and a Treaty is made between the two sides to resume the colonization effort, beginning the Old Peace.

• A sub faction of the Orokin reject the treaty and form the separatist faction bent on destroying the Sentients and/or the treaty.

• for reasons not yet known, the treaty is broken, the Orokin are forced to abandon Tau, and sometime after returning to the Origin System, the Tenno conduct the Night of the Naga Drums, decapitating the Orokin ruling class and shattering their empire.

Did I get that right?

[obtuse gyro]

point 1 goes behind points 2 and 3

[obtuse gyro]

we dont exactly know where point 6 happens in the timeline, it could very well be in the reignited old war

[obtuse gyro]

uuuh also point 3, the Zariman and the Tenno are recovered during the Old War

[nimble bridge]

Wait, really?

I didn’t catch that part

[obtuse gyro]

yea peep kullervo's crimes

[obtuse gyro]

Upon the arrival of the wretched Tenno, you struck. Out of, what, a desire for redemption? You thought to strike the Orokin where it hurt: their laboratories, their edifices of government, their homes. To distract. To buy time. Idiot. You are charged with Treason.

Mind you kullervo is a warframe meaning that the Old War had already began

[nimble bridge]

I don’t think this says when the Zariman children were recovered, it only points to this crime being committed when the Tenno were first being fielded for combat against them. The Tenno didn’t become the Tenno until they were taught to use Warframes

When the Zariman was found I think is still in the air

[obtuse gyro]

oh nah nah, thats the next crime

[obtuse gyro]

You saw the new generation of your kind and the Tenno whose deviltry blent with theirs; and you began to whisper corruption into their ears, weave dark thoughts through the coils of their minds. Incepting, as is your wont, chaos and disaster. You are charged with Espionage.

So the previous crime cant be of when the tenno were deployed

because thats this crime

[nimble bridge]

That I think speaks to the transition from unique frames made by injecting the helminth strain into “volunteers” to mass produced frames built from blueprints like the ones we make in our foundries. Excalibur Umbra vs the common Excalibur. The ones made the latter way had no individual and active consciousness and were easier for the Tenno to operate.

[obtuse gyro]

eeeeeeeeh, tenno-frames were by and large the same as their blueprint counterparts

case in point being the original jade was also given a tenno

[nimble bridge]

Yes, but subsequently constructed Jades weren’t “Jade”

They were mimicrys

[obtuse gyro]

The "new generation of your kind" is also referential to Excal Prime's codex

where excal was the first for the tenno-frames

so like the distinction between "original human-sourced" frame and "blueprint" frame isnt what that crime is speaking to

[graceful zodiac]

All frames were made from blueprint, even the originals. Or rather, all frames were designed

[nimble bridge]

Designed, sure, but I think it would be disingenuous to say the means of construction would be the same in both cases. We aren’t strapping some unfortunate soul to our foundry when we need a new warframe

Most of our frames are largely as Hunhow described: “No sense, no death: a puppet, dangling on Tenno strings”

[graceful zodiac]

Means of construction aren't the same yeah, but the distinction there is functionally meaningless

[obtuse gyro]

Key point is:
"The arrival of the wretched tenno" and "the new generation... deviltry blent" is not a split between human-sourced frames and foundry frames

[nimble bridge]

The latter frames don’t have consciousnesses that can speak to the Tenno, the originals do. Kullervo, Jade, Umbra, they have minds and thoughts of their own outside us, but frames like the ones we start with will sit in the exact same spot for hundreds of years until compelled to move

[obtuse gyro]

because we know from:

The Sentients had won. They had turned our weapons, our technology, against us. The more advanced we became, the greater our losses. The war was over unless we found a new way. In our desperation we turned to the Void. The blinding night, the hellspace where our science and reason failed.
We took the twisted few that had returned from that place. We built a frame around them, a conduit of their affliction. Gave them the weapons of the old ways. Gun and blade. A new warrior, a new code was born. These rejects, these Tenno, became our saviors. Warrior-Gods cast in steel and fury striking our enemies in a way they could never comprehend. Excalibur was the first.
This that the tennoframes were the ones that had this "deviltry blent"

[obtuse gyro]

unironically, umbra shouldnt be included in that list, because he was deliberately made special during a time where tennoframes were deployed

Kullervo existed before the tenno inclusion into the Warframe project

[nimble bridge]

I follow, but we know they didn’t think to combine them immediately: it was only when an early form of Rhino got loose and rampaged its way to where the Tenno were being stored that they had the idea to unite the two. If not for desperation, I don’t think the Orokin would have gone for the Tenno as a fighting force

[nimble bridge]

I include him because he’s the only depiction of that process available to us. The foundry frames were abundant by then, but this was a special case for Ballas, he didn’t need it to be an efficient method, he wanted it tragic and painful and slow

[obtuse gyro]

Exactly! So "Arrival of the wretched tenno" would be closer to the tenno being recovered than the tenno being deployed, since there is a most definite delay between recovering and incorporation into the warframe project

like we have to go through a whole time of therapy into dead adoptive mom before the tenno are part of the project

[nimble bridge]

And this is ultimately a battle of semantics: when did the Tenno Become the Tenno?

[obtuse gyro]

I say when they were pulled off the zariman

[zenith jacinth]

When they boarded the zariman ten-o

[obtuse gyro]

why so

[nimble bridge]

When they arrived from the Void, or when they were sent against the Sentients?

[obtuse gyro]

arrived

[zenith jacinth]

Because ten-o

[nimble bridge]

And here I think is the disagreement of interpretation, and without firmer standing to say either way, I guess its something to be left to individual interpretation

But the Old War definitely happened first

Ahead of the Old Peace, I mean

[obtuse gyro]

oh yea sure

[nimble bridge]

…
…Do you think we’ll get to play through the night of the Naga Drums in the future?? All this stuff we’re seeing now feels like it might give the Tenno a personal reason for having taken arms against their rulers