spoiler-chat

[prime lantern]

I don't think mother was correct a machine made by entrati doesn't make us special a deal with a godly being does

[nova harness]

Think she was saying the heart allows it all to work

[prime lantern]

That also doesn't track as our main power still worked when the heart was closed

Transference

I also don't believe our immortality works like what you've said
Albrecht (after all these long long years) mentions oro telling us how it's a quality of consciousness
In the conclave teshin tells us how our oro the binding force of an enemy who like us persists after death, The sentients who split there consciousness between fragments making death of a part inconsequential to the whole

We don't need to be in a schrodingers cat edq situation we just need something physical or non physical to remake ourselves from via void energy

The soul makes the body or something

[obtuse gyro]

Ill respond in a bit but for some instances such as "operator fading" I dont believe it holds water because the same powers that you claim are fading are used in the very next moment to control necramechs

[prime lantern]

And to add if we actually existed outside of spacetime attempting to trap us in our own history would be like trying to trap Micheal Phelps in a kiddy pool

[trim fern]

Tbf there would not be enough room for Phelps to swim in a kiddy pool.

He would be at a significant disadvantage compared to more open water.

[prime lantern]

I mean if the objective was swimming yes but the objective here is trapping

But finnnnneee I'll change it

Trying to trap us in our own history would be like trying to trap Micheal phelps in a very very very calm river

[trim fern]

I just thought it was a funny example to use. It could even be effective.

[prime lantern]

You'll have him trapped for like a minute

But he wouldn't need outside help to escape

Or the "paradoxical intervention of an outside party"

[nova harness]

Trapping Drifter or Operator in a pool would kill them

They never learnt to swim

[prime lantern]

Wouldn't kill phelps

[nova harness]

True

Actually it might

Eidolon waters aren’t safe

[limber terrace]

True, also though, it canonically takes place before the second dream, so the tenno's physical body is literally still im cold storage...

[obtuse gyro]

Oh nah it doesnt actually have to, theres two versions of dialogue in that part, one preTSD and the other after

Unless DE locked progression leading to TSD behind clearing Heart of Deimos

[nova harness]

Was Drifter on the ship during Second Dream?

[obtuse gyro]

Even considering the timey wimey stuff drifter would still have been in duviri during TSD

[prime lantern]

Even then this isn't an accurate metaphor because phelps prime environment is water but someone outside of space and time could actively just leave there own history

It'd be like trying to trap a 3d being with a 2d line

[limber terrace]

Not if it doesn't know its own nature

[prime lantern]

Would you feel very trapped if an infinitely thin line was placed in front of you

[obtuse gyro]

wait hang on it wouldnt matter if theyre on ice because the powers still get used in both cases

[prime lantern]

A 2d being would

[limber terrace]

The void make idea real. If we believe we're human we'll be 'pretty much' human

[prime lantern]

We're not uhh who's that guy from bleach

Gremmy

Gremmys got a cool power

[limber terrace]

Whoops

[limber terrace]

I meant more that we were trapped in vessels throughout so we don't really know the extent of the effect it had on us...

[obtuse gyro]

In order of paragraph

1. It is indeed between gameplay and lore, but my take is that they bothered to have that instead of like black screen in TNW (if they had a black screen, Im trying to remember it right) makes me feel like its more legit that just being gameplay

2. Regarding the "entity" I dont think its so much as a single original child that was split, but rather based on the "unrealised potential timelines" of albrecht's logs, the operator is this original child and drifter is the version of that child that wasnt rescued

3. already been through that so skip

4. You are correct, they are indeed separate, however based on quinn's "I see dead people two void silhouettes" I'm reading more of a hulk-banner situation instead of one here one in void.

5. Dont disagree there, thats pretty much the common lore community consensus on why theyre both there

6. Back to number 2

[prime lantern]

And yonta saying we embody eternalism

[obtuse gyro]

which is funny, because thats what I believe to be part of what wally is trying to do (and struggling with)

[limber terrace]

I think the difference there is we have a physical AND a metaphysical form, Wally doesn't have a physical form, so he wants ours.

[obtuse gyro]

bingo!

we (in so many ways more than Wally) are real!

[prime lantern]

Or To make his own

[limber terrace]

And yet out mind can act completely independent of our physical body's state, and or physical body seemingly cant die, despite being human...

[prime lantern]

We're parahuman

That's what albretch says

[limber terrace]

Well there prefix para literally means beside, near, resembling, beyond... so that would effective mean we're not human but something human like...

[prime lantern]

Uncanny

[near rune]

Transference isn't just a Tenno Void power, though they are better at it than others. But it's a technology used by Ballas and Silvana, so it stands to reason that Vilcor was able to hook us up with his Old War Transference tech for the Necramech and we weren't using our innate Void powers.

[prime lantern]

The huh?

[near rune]

hit enter too fast. happens to me all the time

[near rune]

Yes the two versions of dialogue previously existed but DE shuffled the quest timeline with WitW update so now HoD is required before TSD (Ceres Junction requires you to complete HoD before you can advance from Mars). This also happened with Rising Tide: depending on if you'd done TWW (or TSD?) you would see Wally or not on top of the Reliquary Drive, but now you must do Rising Tide before TSD so new players will never see Wally on top of the Reliquary (a shame).

[prime lantern]

With albretch traversing the multiverse I think a bunch of what if situations would be cool like what if sentients fatal flaw didn't work

[obtuse gyro]

I dont think thats quite it, Vilcor only crossed the impulse streams, I dont think he set up another transference stream for us, just taking on what was already there and putting it into another recepticle

[near rune]

I think what's likely is Vilcor set up one end of the Transference stream and allowed us to connect to it. Under normal circumstances the Tenno can probably just Transference into any appropriate vessel, but when the Heart started failing Vilcor had to do half the work. That's my guess but there's definitely room for interpretation.
Vilcor: "Not ideal, but I've cross-routed your warframe impulse stream directly to Snake."

[fading flame]

Transference is an innate Tenno ability that the orokin have replicated using kuva and technology afaik

[near rune]

No indication kuva is involved. The relevant technology discussed are "Transference bolts" and "somatics", the latter of which is also used to enhance Tenno Transference.

[amber terrace]

Given the assumption that The Void is a dimension with max entropy, meaning max randomness, also meaning an energy gradient that does not vary, was Albrecht’s first venture into the void an event that introduced a pocket of space with low entropy into a universe of max entropy, and the presence of a consciousness could’ve created a consciousness in the Void, leading to The Indifference

With this line of reasoning, did I make a standard progression of logic?

Hmm… maybe the reason The Indifference has been called The Man In The Wall for so long is because the consciousness of The Indifference has been “trapped” in the Wall, aka the border between Void Space and Real Space?

[wraith eagle]

I can see the line of thought.

Although I'll disagree with the last bit

[amber terrace]

Now the question is does it hold with the current understanding of Warframe’s lore?

[wraith eagle]

As far as I can determine, Rell named him the Man in the Wall

[amber terrace]

True, I was musing about that because after the Chains of Harrow, pretty much everyone who knew of its existence called it The Man In The Wall, save the Holdfasts, Albrecht, Loid, and the surviving Cavia

[wraith eagle]

Eh, I mean I would never accept that as a rule, but I mean I can see where the logic presented in the game would support it. I'm not sure how much 'entropy' is a matter of it. Or why low entropy would grant thr power of creation through the existence of will and thought.

No one understood Wally as much more than a entity in the Void until we got more insights.

Wait when do the Holdfasts bring it up?

[amber terrace]

I can’t intuitively reason why Albrecht’s brief presence in the Void would birth The Indifference, so I cobbled together a theory based on my understanding of The Void and its penchant for defying reason

[prime lantern]

It was Albretch by accident or on purpose can't tell

Albretch calls the indifference "that man in the wall"

[prime lantern]

Because it made the everything the indifference used to be a something the man in the wall is now

[wraith eagle]

Aaaa

[prime lantern]

It gave shape to something shapeless definition to something definitionless

[wraith eagle]

God damn Warframe lore.

[prime lantern]

An everything is now a something

Theres Things the man in the wall can not be and he is not happy

And with the dagoth lore alluding to names having real power

What better to name the very big villian something that would make it powerless

Or well unable to act upon its own power

Something indifferent

[wraith eagle]

Oh for sure the naming is important, and for sure the void is a space where things can be effectively created out of nothing

[amber terrace]

Lemme find that real fast, this is from the Rank Five(Angel) cutscene that plays when you hit Angel with the Holdfastz

[wraith eagle]

That's probably why I don't know.

[supple dagger]

iron man dies 😮

[tropic venture]

"Until then: we shall Hold Fast"

https://tenor.com/view/fire-writing-gif-24533171

[amber terrace]

On the question of whether or not Loid knows of the current state of the Entrati family in the Necralisk, when you unlock the ability to acquire the Archon Shard Coalescent Segment, Loid mentions Kermerros’ name. While this is not a sure fire tell that Loid knows of the state of the family, I’m fairly certain to gamble the possibility that the Necraloid brought Loid up to speed with the state of the family

[tropic venture]

yeah

[near rune]

Loid also asks you to tell him about the family when you visit him: "What news of the family, Tenno? I miss them all so very, very much."

[amber terrace]

Hmm… this could potentially mean that Necraloid told Loid an incomplete story of the family? Loid knows about the infested individuals occupying the Necralisk but hasn’t connected the dots and realized that the Entrati family he once knew and cared for are all but faded memories?

[nova harness]

Necraloid only has one task

Awake the sleeper

[amber terrace]

Ah, I thought bringing The Sleeper up to date on the current state of affairs in the system was a part of that precept

[near rune]

The Sanctum computer seems to have done that actually

[amber terrace]

I don’t have the computer memorized off the top of my head and I’m not on the Xbox rn, does it mention the Infested Entrati?

[near rune]

I think Loid knows about the family's current state. He knows Kermerros' new name. So he could have mourned the loss of their old memories and identities while still caring for the people they are now. If your parent gets Alzheimer's you don't stop loving them.

[amber terrace]

True, the question came from the line “What news of the family, Tenno? I miss them all so very, very much” I interpreted that to mean that he wasn’t aware of the family’s state

[near rune]

It mentions the Entrati family in the current day but not exactly the fact they're Infested. But it's been monitoring so much that you can assume it knows that too.

[near rune]

Ah yeah, I assumed he wanted like today's gossip and he was largely up to date. I guess you could take it either way

[cyan crest]

it would be so good to cure then purely so loid could see them again…

also mandatory “haha funny i am kermerros simp” comment, i am out of inspiration this time

[amber terrace]

Either way it must be Hell for Loid. If he knows the family is Infested, that carries the implication that they wouldn’t remember him and he’d be just another stranger; if he doesn’t know, then he’s probably waiting for the day he can come up from the Labs and see his Albrecht’s wonderful Euleria and all her family, only to be hit with the sudden reality check of the Entrati being Infested and the family not remembering him

[cyan crest]

the family would remember him i think, they have NecraLoid there

[near rune]

The family has some memories of Loid but they seem to be transposed onto the Necraloid? So maybe seeing Loid in human form might cause some more memories to come back. The Infestation works in mysterious ways.

[cyan crest]

they probably think real Loid was actually turned into NecraLoid, if their memory around the event is fuzzy

it would make the most sense, why would he not be a cephalon of their old servant?

of course, we know why, they might not

[weary bramble]

how come the Entrati family look so different to Albrecht, Grandmother who would be Albrechts wife right looks completely different to him, so do their kids and grandkids

[cyan crest]

grandmother is not albrecht’s wife

[amber terrace]

Grandmother is Vilcor’s mom, making her an in law to Albrecht and Euleria

[cyan crest]

also, they look different because of orokin fashion and stuff
if you think about it, there is zero genetic relation between each other, as they inhabit bodies gotten through continuity
they have the genetics of their yuvan

after a couple of continuities there is no genetic link between the family at all

[weary bramble]

Ballas, Nihil, the Entrati, they all look so alien when the other Orokin we know: Albrecht, does not

i find it very odd

[cyan crest]

albrecht had to go to 1999

if you go there looking like blue slenderman with a demon arm, people are not gonna trust you

there’s posters of Albrecht in the zariman, where you can see how he looked when he was blue

[amber terrace]

Maybe I’m interpreting this wrong, I don’t see the long blue arm in this portrait of Albrecht?

[near rune]

There are three different-looking depictions of Albrecht, and interestingly none of them have the long arm.

Yup that's one of them

[cyan crest]

i mean, the statue one is just him with a mask on

[amber terrace]

Maybe Albrecht didn’t vibe with the long blue arm? From what I can tell, most of the features that were synonymous with Orokin were body augmentation, so maybe the Orokin were able to pick and choose what features they did and didn’t want?

[near rune]

Yeah, to my eye it doesn't look like either the portrait or the version we see in Whispers

[near rune]

They were. it was all vanity

[viscid quarry]

Considering how assumedly not every orokin abided by blue and one long arm due to how many orokin their must be, one can assume he’s one of them that or he’s just unique like that

[cyan crest]

to be fair the statue and portrait versions could be two different bodies

[amber terrace]

Either Albrecht was going against the grain or the long arm was adopted after Albrecht put the stars within reach through Void travel?

[weary bramble]

How did he unblue himself

[amber terrace]

I mean, Albrecht has to be ancient, even by Orokin standards. From what I can tell, there was an ocean of time between Albrecht first discovering Void travel and when he went to 1999

[cyan crest]

refascia kit
new body
that’s two possibilities

people can bodyhop

[near rune]

Could be. The earliest confirmation we have of the long arm is the statues of Tuvul on the Zariman

[weary bramble]

Oh yeah the fat queen tried to do that w us

[cyan crest]

and the portrait of ballas right?

[near rune]

third possibility: new skin but not new body. Albrecht had to regenerate parts of his body after the Void incident

[cyan crest]

True

[near rune]

Portrait is on the Zariman but doesn't show the arm I think

[amber terrace]

I’m not entirely sure, maybe he had a spare body laying around that he wasn’t opposed to performing continuity with or as Fog suggested, there is a kit that one can use to undo the blue skin. And even then, in the opening cutscene of Whispers, Albrecht’s hand is a light blue but that could be lighting

[graceful zodiac]

Albrechts color isn't even that different, it's the shading and medium

[cyan crest]

i mean, he’s the weird bluish grey in the portrait and white in his weird 1999 outfit

[graceful zodiac]

He's very much still gray

[amber terrace]

His 1999 outfit is not weird, it’s drippier than a bad faucet and goes harder than diamonds

[cyan crest]

no

[viscid quarry]

Yeah it seems more likely that either a: albrecht went against typical orokin fashion or b: orokin fashion changed wildly in the time between Albrecht’s discovery and the zariman

[cyan crest]

true enough

[viscid quarry]

Hell that jacket is something I’d happily spend money to get

And maybe the hat

[cyan crest]

i like the pendant

[graceful zodiac]

In that photo, yeah because the subway blue lights and it being a wider shot.

[amber terrace]

I would gladly mug him in the streets of Chicago for his hat

[graceful zodiac]

His close ups and under the lighting in the Sanctum are straight up gray

[cyan crest]

that’s because of the lighting

he’s just pale in 1999 while in the portrait he’s straight up almost blue

that weird orokin not-quite-grey not-quite-blue

[nova harness]

He lost his blueness when he met a man with weird powers

[cyan crest]

not sure if you’re referencing something else, referring to wally or to albrecht’s boyfri- lab assistant

[nova harness]

Wally but Loid definitely played a minor part in it

He fixed his skin after all

[amber terrace]

If I may politely counter point, I was under the impression that this portrait was taken after Albrecht had stumbled into The Void?

[cyan crest]

we really do not know

[nova harness]

Based on new lore it might’ve been before he went into the Void

[weary bramble]

Albrecht and Loid are/were a thing right? Or at least Loid had a thing for Albrecht?

[near rune]

It makes sense to be after because the Orokin didn't respect Albrecht before that, but we don't know

[cyan crest]

yeah those two were together 100%

[cyan crest]

mind you he was still rich, he had gotten continuity before and could afford the deimos lab

[amber terrace]

Plus, I just now noticed this, if you zoom in on Albrecht’s face from the portrait I posted, there are distinctive markings on Albrecht’s face comparable to void over exposure seen in The Murmur and the Zariman

[graceful zodiac]

Why I said it's not that different. His portrait is definitely more blue tinted, but he's still the same general gray

[nova harness]

Can a Tenno still get Void exposure?

[viscid quarry]

Just noticed it and I agree

[near rune]

Maybe? It's something Lotus was concerned about in Chains of Harrow

[amber terrace]

I would assume that’s where the dark runny stuff in some of the Somatics comes from

[weary bramble]

Rells mind was broken from prolonged direct exposure to wally, the avatar of the void
So I'd say yes

[viscid quarry]

Honestly I’d say no due to already having obscene amounts of void exposure with zero effects other then magical space powers

Now exposure to inhabitants of the void is another thing

[fading flame]

The Tenno are essentially beings of the void now so not really, the operator specifically might be special though, given they're essentially the cause of a branching point in time so severe that us getting punted into the void caused all the other Tenno to lose a lot of their void powers afaik

A lot of our perspective on what a Tenno can do is biased towards the operator/drifter who are definitively special as far as things go to the point of being effectively unable to die

[obtuse gyro]

Ive had a lovely conversation with fellows on the communith server and am now of the opinion that

a) continuity didnt exist until albrecht stumbled through the void (albrechts use of continuity is without the capital C and is tied to the idea of wanderlust, which makes more sense if we consider the actual normal use of the real word)

b) Albrecht might have possibly continuityd a few times before his existential dread that stopped him from taking the Kuva kicked it. (He claims it build up slowly in him, and his final entry with the kuva is in a present tense, i.e not I vowed not to vs i vow not to)

This would then place all that portraits as possibly after when he was no longer a laughing stock

[cyan crest]

still wouldn’t explain the destructive effect void has on kuva imo, besides, Albrecht does not list kuva as one of the wonders that came with void travel

[obtuse gyro]

Other pointers that might suggest that kuva only popped up after the void discovery is whatever the grineer are doing to the zariman finger, and that under my own theory that albrecht caused the undifferentiated void to start differentiating, kuva shouldnt have the room to manifest in real space beforehand, there was no ripple to cause it

[cyan crest]

still, gonna check something real quick

[obtuse gyro]

Destructive effect? All I remember is that kuva is a void derived fluid

[cyan crest]

in kuva missions it can only be harmed by void attacks from the operator

[obtuse gyro]

And that wally cause kuva to poor out the ground in duviri

[obtuse gyro]

Ah no I dont think thats exactly a case of void = smush kuva

[cyan crest]

besides, albrecht calls continuity “old blood” in his logs

The continuity and its twin, wanderlust. The need for unseen shores deep in our marrow. No judge, jester, queen, or king can escape this old blood

[obtuse gyro]

Because you shoot the cloud but you still get the kuva

[obtuse gyro]

No you see thats the the thing, albrecht isnt talking about continuity

He's talking about being trapped in Sol

Wanderlust, need for unseen shores

Paired with continuity, old blood

Hell it might even be why the kuva is referred to as such because of albrecht

[cyan crest]

Time, to us, is all but conquered. Our sacred Kuva moves us on to new skin. We numb to our daily, yearly, trifles... and remedy those memories that bring lasting misery. With all our misdeeds, our excess, our indignity... we are haunted by nothing. But not for me. For with each passing day, there grew within a tumorous idea. It was minute in those early days: The pale reaching digits severed on the floor... studied with reverence, with greed. And it swelled larger in the latter days: the regal domes, the Rail dedications, the unholy Zariman parade. I had put the stars within reach, but at what cost?

[obtuse gyro]

See that last line, that was what the first entry was all about

[cyan crest]

that separation between orokin being haunted by nothing because of the Kuva, but him being different, as his paranoia grew more

it’s like the kuva is the cause for the lack of haunting, but different from his void wonders

[obtuse gyro]

Note that he himself creates a large time difference for this idea to fester

[cyan crest]

there is a separation there

[nova harness]

Albrecht is a weird character

[obtuse gyro]

Because thats continuity and wanderlust, the same themes from the first entry!!

The poetic lil doodoo devourer

[cyan crest]

but the Kuva is directly separated! besides if he was afraid that continuity would perpetuate the wallman then him having already taken it would have already been a loss for him
and Loid curing him is rendered a bit unnecessary if all he needed to do was continuity into another body… and the paranoia still existed until the early days, only smaller!

[obtuse gyro]

We can see that section through the lens of "void-based research results categorised by continuity and wanderlust"

[cyan crest]

OH

[obtuse gyro]

Yes! Because its the only thing that fulfils the theme of continuity with Continuity

As for that unsettling fear, it grew slowly, having jumped bodies would compound that fear (even if he would then turn it for good)

[cyan crest]

albrecht mentions body markets as something BEFORE void! and we know the connotations of it as Yuvan theatres because he mentions it in the light of Orokin immortality!!!

It began long before us, we who now live our perfect and dull, endless lives. It began long before these moon-palaces and body-markets hurling around our golden sun

[obtuse gyro]

Mmm unfortunately, this part is a recounting and recollection

So like, when he made that entry, and all others, the kuva and continuity would already be a thing

[cyan crest]

well, yeah, but he is citing a long series of events that brought him to research the void to travel the stars

“we die with the sun” implies prior immortality

and the body markets are mentioned within the immortality thing

[viscid quarry]

More like the long series that leads to where he was on that fateful day

[cyan crest]

yes, the day he travels to the void and makes void travel system wide a possibility

[obtuse gyro]

Nono I mean that that bit is because he's already where he's at with the kuva and continuity, so thats him going all the way back

[viscid quarry]

And as a result causes the current void damned [redacted]show we are in now

[cyan crest]

“inmortal as we are, we die with the sun” so he needed to find a way to escape the sun WHILE they are inmortal, hence kuva

[obtuse gyro]

So like the body markets and yuvan are the now things that perpetuate continuity through Continuity, but they didnt exist before he stepped into the void to solve the "we die witb the sun"

[obtuse gyro]

Ah but you see, I no longer believe he was being literal about it

[cyan crest]

but he literally was, they were immortal, in that moment he is being literal

[viscid quarry]

I’m fairly certain the literal heat death of the sun is as literal as it gets when he says that they die with the sun

[obtuse gyro]

Immortal we die with the sun, in the context of all that poetic talk about continuity and wanderlust cannot be with the kuva, because its a double pronged problem:

Continuity: humanity, as he pointed out, has always had continuity, humans may not be immortal but humanity is. Being trapped in Sol to die with the son threatens this continuity

Wanderlust: you die with your own sun instead of under the light of a foreign star

[cyan crest]

you have to make leaps to place kuva before void but you have to make bigger leaps in this recollection to place kuva after void

[obtuse gyro]

Disagree, it takes much lesser to fit kuva after

You can thank "void-derived" for that

[cyan crest]

if you don’t consider that the void mimics

[obtuse gyro]

How could it mimic when until he steps in its all undifferentiated?

[cyan crest]

exactly

[obtuse gyro]

Theres nothing to cause it to stir until he steps in

[cyan crest]

bear with me for a moment while i write this long-butt paragraph i am about to because the thing is still writing itself in my mind

[obtuse gyro]

No, its exactly my point, kuva couldnt have formed out of the void until after albrecht disturbed it by ramming his head in it

[nova harness]

How did Albrecht breath in the void?

[obtuse gyro]

And if we refer back to the first entry, the continuity there is missing a capital C, which we see during War Within, it has

[nova harness]

You sure that isn’t a typo?

[obtuse gyro]

So to me it reads of the spirit of continuity (hence immortal) which is then succeeded by Kuva and Continuity

[obtuse gyro]

You sure it is?

[obtuse gyro]

Plus like the sentence is "continuity and its twin wanderlust" so like yea, Im very comfortable with the idea that its not Continuity

[nova harness]

What’s twin wanderlust?

[obtuse gyro]

Wanderlust is the desire to go something else, somewhere new

So in essence, continuity and its twin wanderlust, the desires to persist and explore

Very human

[near rune]

it's very possible it's a typo. DE has terrible copywriters. I do a lot of small adjustments to my transcripts.

[wraith eagle]

On a vaguely minor thing, I find one of those entries pretty neat where it's the option to 'close it' rather than 'close'

[cyan crest]

albrecht steps into the void with the hope that it will help the already inmortal orokin reach the stars
the wally tomfoolery happens, wallman is created partially out of the fear of albrecht of the unknown, and well, albrecht’s existence, it stirs the uniformity
thing is, albrecht at the moment also has that orokin immortality in mind, that kuva that perpetuates them but that will not save them from the dying sun (once that happens)
so, the moment it all unfolds, kuva becomes intertwined with the void, not intentionally, but subconsciously through albrecht’s desire of perpetuating human existence
it would be why kuva can be extracted from Wally’s finger, it’s interpreting it as it’s literal blood by virtue of copying an albrecht that had in mind that the kuva was the blood of the orokin that kept their inmortal empire running
this is completely a tinfoil hat theory but just hear me out, in the momment the void uniformity is stirred, it intertwines with the concept of kuva because it’s the fuel for the need of the void
i am expressing this the worst way possible and i am only fueled by lack of sleep and caffeine but it’s making sense to me in a weird philosophical way that void lore always seems to feel like

[near rune]

yes this is such a funny little easter egg

[wraith eagle]

I found it a little frightening, not much but it seemed to play on flexibility of reality and perception... but it didn't really play out.

[amber terrace]

If I may pester the fine folks here, does anyone have a picture of what the back of Loid’s head looks like? Specifically his haircut. Idk if I’m gonna be able to get on today to take the screenshots

[nova harness]

I’m still surprised Albrecht was able to breathe in the Void

[wraith eagle]

Wait what I mean I know nothing about Kuva but how is it tied to any of that?

[obtuse gyro]

Or I can untwist it for you

Albrecht steps in with the idea of continuity and wanderlust. In his head continuity is the old blood of humanity, and lo and behold a blood-like substance that allows consciousness to persist! Continuity with a big C

[nova harness]

How is it tied to the Void or Continuity?

Or you referring to something else

[obtuse gyro]

You think youre fuelled by a lack of sleep its 6am and I never drink caffine (ignoring all the cans of coke in my bin)

[cyan crest]

it feels like Kuva would need to exist because immortality is directly tied to the need for the void
it began long before our body markets yadda yadda
the need for the void began before it
it is what albrecht refers to
he wouldn’t mention it if it came after the void because the need for the void cannot come after one of the effects of the void
the “it” that began necessarily began before the effects of the void

and thus would be redundant to mention kuva if it was after void

[obtuse gyro]

I dont think it has to anymore, humanity would always persist, but after albrecht, humans will now persist

[wraith eagle]

I mean, void, I jut know it as the magic immortality juice. I didn't know it had extra void magic bullshit attached XD.

[obtuse gyro]

And Ive already covered that part, he's starting is narration from the beginning while at the end, we end as we began. So kuva and Continuity exists but he boils down everything that has happened back to the themes of continuity and wanderlust, both threatened if they cant leave origin

[nova harness]

There’s even an Anti-Void

[wraith eagle]

If that's the case, I find it very annoying how central ablretch's retroactive inclusion is. And how everything is void now, Prequelitis.

[cyan crest]

yes but he explicitly says that it all began before that as in the need for the starts that propelled the void expeditions began before that
it is redundant to mention the effects of something while discussing its cause, poetic as you may want to be

besides the known method of kuva extraction happens mainly in realspace

[wraith eagle]

I mean Continuity (and the orokin) I'm pretty sure existed before he got into the void, so forcing that to be a consequence of the void seems a bit much.

What is the known method of kuva extraction?

[cyan crest]

syphons

[nova harness]

Does the Kuva Fortress actually have any Kuva in it?

[obtuse gyro]

Homie

as in the need for the starts that...

Youve literally proven my point, the need for all that started before all the body swapping.

Its not a case of redundancy at all, hell, I don't see why its redundant, just because you state the end of the story doest mean you cant afterwards state where it starts

[cyan crest]

you are not seeing what I’m trying to say

[obtuse gyro]

The language of his texts aint reall supporting what youre trying to say tho

[wraith eagle]

I font know how siphons work other than they slurping up stuff that's there.

[obtuse gyro]

"We who now live our perfect and endless lives" would suggest that then it wasnt perfect (debatable) and endless

[wraith eagle]

Never mind.

But didn't he also choice not to take a new body after the experience?

[obtuse gyro]

The front section is a reverse journey in time to what motivates humanity

[wraith eagle]

Or is that where the missing capital C what you meant was?

[cyan crest]

albrecht is recounting what lead to him starting his research
he says when the need for it began, and says it was long before the body markets and all that stuff
he is recounting what lead to him discovering the void
if he’s doing that, void comes before the effects of the void, obviously, and you would not specify effects of the thing while discussing what caused you to do the thing
the fact that he specified it all began before all that happened, means it was not necessarily after the thing happened, specifically because he had to specify

[obtuse gyro]

Um

[viscid quarry]

Honestly that kinda actually work

[wraith eagle]

As i recall, its him recounting his motivation into researching it, the story begins with him choosing to, and later he waxes philosophical.

No, they discovered the void before his experiments. It's not a new thing.

[nova harness]

Can I blame Albrecht for the fact I had to make a deal with a man to save myself from space?

[cyan crest]

the fact that albrecht has to mention the body market era as not a cause means it could have been a cause and by virtue of the possibility of being a cause, which he specifies it’s not, it cannot be an effect

[viscid quarry]

You sleep?

[nova harness]

What’s sleep?

[wraith eagle]

Sure... it would be like blaming isaac newton for the challenger disaster though.

[cyan crest]

damn newton and his gravity….

[wraith eagle]

Wut, words.

[obtuse gyro]

Yea no I absolutely cannot agree with that take.

he is recounting what lead to him discovering the void

I can no longer agree with this. From the diction he is going from the present where kuva and Continuity exists, to back to primal urges of humanity.

Even without that, the idea that you dont need to specify the effects of the very thing you are discussing isnt a sound nor valid idea, Ive seen that hullabaloo enough times in academic texts.

The fact that he gave us a historh lesson was to shown how primordial this motivation was

[viscid quarry]

Idk I heard of some insane people rambling one about it claiming it’s what heals the mind and whatnot like the insanity that is chakras and whatever it is

[obtuse gyro]

Which is predicated on the assumption that he is drawing a linear path backwards for his discovery and assumption that I do not believe holds true

[cyan crest]

yes
while specifying it didn’t begin in the body market era
he would not need to specify that if the era began after the trip, it would be immediately ruled out

[nova harness]

Definitely a scam

Is a body market a slavery thing?

[cyan crest]

it’s the Yuvan theatres

for body snatching

[obtuse gyro]

He absolutely can specify it, because its a history lesson of humanity not his discovery trail

[viscid quarry]

Yeah Ik right why do that nonsense when caffeine or obscene amounts of d- exists

[obtuse gyro]

What part of rad wars and oil and smoke spells out void? It reads more of a history lesson into human nature more than void discovery

[viscid quarry]

It’s more like a kill chamber then slavery because the mind that controlled the body is gone

[obtuse gyro]

Which then from this nature, comes the need of the discovery

[cyan crest]

it’s a history lesson of when it began, the need for the stars, the realization that they need to go further, the thing that caused him to research the void
it is the it caused by wanderlust
it cannot have ever began in the era ushered by the void because it is the reason for that era existing at all

[nova harness]

Orokin have some weird ideas who agrees to this stuff?

[obtuse gyro]

This primordial thing

[cyan crest]

this is true

[viscid quarry]

I too agree to this claim

[obtuse gyro]

Except it is human nature not his scientific endeavour

The it is continuity and wanderlust

[cyan crest]

the human nature is the cause for his scientific endeavor, it is why he explains it

[obtuse gyro]

Which is the point of the history lesson, which he is recounting from a position where the research is all done

This isnt a log that he made before he steps in, its a log from after

[wraith eagle]

I entirely read it as his personal philosophical view on why he did what he did. And how particularly from the angle of how/why He lost the desire for it.

[cyan crest]

it makes no sense to recount it from that possition because he specifies that’s not where it began and it’s not needed to specify that’s not where it began because it’s the cause and so it cannot have begun before the effect

[wraith eagle]

If we are talking continuity and wanderlust as ideas.

[obtuse gyro]

What? He's giving an account of what happened, what do you mean it makes no sense?

[wraith eagle]

We are talking about the rune stories in the sanctum right?

[obtuse gyro]

Thats what Im reading it as

[cyan crest]

he’s giving it as a reason for his need for something to escape the sun
he cannot commence from a place where the research is all done because it doesn’t need to be specified the cause didn’t begin after the effect

besides, while it is not Continuity with a capital C, Albrecht does call it the continuity, definitive article

[obtuse gyro]

No. The diction is not supporting you.

When his main point of the entry is to show just how primordial it is, this isnt him identifying causes, this is him identifying concepts in his history in a reverse linear manner

[obtuse gyro]

Because he's calling the pair as themes

When he says continuity there its a noun

[cyan crest]

the concepts being the cause of his need to discover a thing to escape the sun, introducing us to his discovery of the void and his initial trip

[wraith eagle]

Wait, where does he say anything about the Sun? I can't remember that

[obtuse gyro]

Which is something that was already done, this entry is not before his trip this is supported by the fact that the very next entry is the start of the actual recollection all in past tense (save for the final entry, which is in present tense just like the first entry)

[cyan crest]

And when no ocean, mountain, or sky could contain us... our gaze hungered star-ward. Afar, they mocked us with their brittle light. Winking and jeering like dangling Ayatans, forever out of reach, illuminating the truth: immortal as we are - we die with the sun. That's where I come in."

[nova harness]

Hurling around our golden sun

[wraith eagle]

Ah right...

[cyan crest]

yes, but he is using it as an introduction on why he did it

That’s where i come in.
no need to specify that you did something because of a thing that came before you did the something

[obtuse gyro]

Again again again this is on the assumption, one that I do not for a second believe is true, that he is listing down causes

Its not a "its not this cause its not this cause its not this cause, its this one'"

[wraith eagle]

Yeah okay sure makes sense, but still sounds very philosophical more than a knowledge that void is the way to travel interstellar distances before he started researching into it.
Then. He did do research which lead to breakthroughs, which lead to void travel.

[obtuse gyro]

Because once we go past the yuvan theatre none of those are remotely void related

[cyan crest]

he isn’t listing down causes, he’s listing moments when the it would have sprouted, the it being the cause
you don’t need before you actually did the thing, that’s evident

[obtuse gyro]

Which I vehemently disagree with

There is nothing about continuity out of oil and smoke

Or rad wars

[cyan crest]

it sprouts the need to abandon earth and expand throughout the solar system
the light coil thinkers, if they are the thing that caused the orokin to ban AI before the sentients, would also spark that
the orokin conformity with the solar system situation would also spark that
but it didn’t
because it’s intrinsic to us
that’s the point of the introduction

[wraith eagle]

What? 'It' being the desire to travel and expand? Because that's always been there in humanity.

[cyan crest]

which is the point albrecht makes exactly

[obtuse gyro]

Even if I were to entertain that, you have not for a moment answered the structural form of all the entries which denotes that he is recounting all of them in the present

[wraith eagle]

Then why does it sound like you're arguing against that?

[cyan crest]

i am not

[wraith eagle]

I'm so confused now.

[obtuse gyro]

We who are now endless blah blah blah indicates that the immortality is a present thing, but that drive started long before.

[cyan crest]

damn it hurts to be in the receiving end of Bau being cold
anyway, i think you are not getting why i am trying to argue, because i agree that that is a present thing, but a present situation can also be the same situation you were in in the past before the human need to discover makes you want to discover a way to travel the stars

[wraith eagle]

I've been there XD

[nova harness]

We all have

[near rune]

It really is flying fast and furious in here

[cyan crest]

yes, and that drive being what pushes albrecht to research into the topic of the void would mean he would not need to specify that it didn’t start at the point of void travel existing, but that the situation with kuva already did
notice how he only mentions continuity in this
and how when he recounts the wonders of the void, Kuva is noticeably not in there, but mentioned way before it
there is a conscious separation of both topics in the logs

[nova harness]

I wonder what Gray thinks

[cyan crest]

if anything albrecht would have recounted the thing that gave them immortality as the most important of those achievements when recounting them later

[near rune]

I'll be honest, this is not a topic I care to analyse to this level haha. What is even the original question?

[cyan crest]

hell, he would have never taken the kuva if it came exclusively from the void

hell, notice how different he speaks about void and kuva in the same log
Kuva is sacred, the Zariman parade is unholy

[nova harness]

They are trying to figure out which order Albrecht is recounting events in specifically the log about body markets and that stuff

[cyan crest]

kuva comes from void (bau), kuva does not come from void (fog)

[obtuse gyro]

Im not convinced of this redundancy argument, its entirely resting on this idea that when he says "it began long before" it can only mean that it was a possible source of a driver. But it could be a history lesson instead, a marker for "progress" For instance if I say to you "It began long before me, I who am now free of daddy issues. It began long before hours at the therapist. It began before that one time I got the UCS Venator." (I dont have daddy issues I love my dad. I also dont have the UCS Venator). It doesnt necessarily mean that the potential source of my daddy issues was me buying the venator

[near rune]

Kuva has Void properties, that's explicit, though that doesn't necessarily mean kuva must have come after the Void. I'm of the opinion that Orokin were immortal before the Void.

[obtuse gyro]

In sorry its almost 7 am lolol. And I get what youre arguing for, I really really just dont agree

[near rune]

what a way to phrase it tho

[obtuse gyro]

I still love you fog

[cyan crest]

it does imply that the daddy issues might have come from that one time you bought the UCS venator kinda

[obtuse gyro]

I just have to turn on my class participation [insert job occupation that filters will clear] mode because it gets words out faster and I wanna sleep

[cyan crest]

ily too Bau

[near rune]

I feel like you can love your dad and still have daddy issues. just saying.

[nova harness]

Can confirm

[cyan crest]

now i want a UCS venator

[obtuse gyro]

Oh yea I know, but I really dont have daddy issues, its just fun to put it that way

[cyan crest]

it comes with a captain rex with a cape…

[wraith eagle]

Welp

[obtuse gyro]

Which is the thing, Im not trying to imply it, and I believe albrecht isnt either. The key thing is that the first item he marked was humanity (or rather the orokin) now.

If we take it that he wouldnt be trying to put the cause infront of the effect, his first sentence is in violation of that

[nova harness]

I don’t think anyone can beat Bau in a lore debate

[cyan crest]

i am trying my best tho

[obtuse gyro]

Because in true we end as we began fashion, the goober starts with it began before us

[obtuse gyro]

Nah, Ive lost before

Im not unbeatable

[nova harness]

Who beat you?

[obtuse gyro]

Many

Warframe destiny the bible yada yada

[cyan crest]

what

[obtuse gyro]

Im just a silly lil guy

[nova harness]

Many lore debates become endless with no true winner

Many people refuse to listen to logic

[obtuse gyro]

Fun facts about logic: we love to use aristolian logic which is a 2 level (or whatever its called) logic

There are other systems of logic like african logic that have 3 levels, and theoretically there a systems with more

[cyan crest]

anyway going by wording alone as you are doing, albrecht keeps kuva and void separate throughout the logs
again, in the one where he recounts the things that came out of studying the fingers, he mentions kuva before them, aaand in a completely different fashion
again, Kuva is sacred, the zariman parade is unholy
and i seriously doubt he would drink void juice knowing it was void juice, even if he wasn’t as paranoid as he was in his later days, he makes a point to say the paranoia was still there

[wraith eagle]

Is it paranoia when it's true?

[cyan crest]

wallman did not escape instead of him, so it is paranoia

[obtuse gyro]

Oh I get what you mean, this is a tricky one over text if I had a blackboard or paper this would be so much easier to explain

[nova harness]

I personally believed Kuva was a thing before Void travel and was found when Orokin first found out the Void was a thing

[cyan crest]

i am keeping with my synthetic interpretation that i just came up with mid debate because it makes me feel better about the whole thing and makes the albrecht wording sound more cohesive

[obtuse gyro]

In essence we've got a multi-layed structure:

1. thematic split between void discoveries in continuity and wanderlust

2. thematic arc as he starts to veer away from kuva (notice he starts with saying what kuva can do, then goes to show how his paranoia grew)

Which the culminates in him rejective the kuva

Starting and ending the entry with kuva

We end as we began yet again

[wraith eagle]

Wasn't it mentioned until that point they believed the void was useless? If kuva was known to come from void wouldn't there be more interest in the void?

[obtuse gyro]

Weve got a datapad saying it s a void derived fluid

[nova harness]

Has void properties

[wraith eagle]

Oh yeah forgot about that.

No swearing.

Well, so that's makes everything really damned annoying.

[obtuse gyro]

Which is another point of contention, but given how easy it is for people to take one nice thing and ignore the rest its not all that compelling as much as I agree with you

[cyan crest]

the thing is, he doesn’t reject it as a product of the void, he rejects it as a means to not perpetuate the Indifference
it seems extremely strange to not mention the koolaid as a void product at all in his rant about the void revolution and it’s consequences being a disaster for the human race

[wraith eagle]

Really, really hate warframe lore sometimes.

[obtuse gyro]

Hence multilayered. The journey of the rejection of his Continuity framed within the split between the themes of continuity and wanderlust

[cyan crest]

careful templar

[obtuse gyro]

This next part is obviously not meant to be intentional on the writers part but we have a linear line captured in a loop, seems awfully familiar

3 layers it is

1. split
2. journey
3. end as we began

[obtuse gyro]

Oh oh I can answer that second part!

[wraith eagle]

Huh, mobile discord. What the...

[obtuse gyro]

Because thats the wanderlust section!

[cyan crest]

it just seems like a really, reeeeeally odd wording for someone to use for a known void product when he makes a distinction between it and void products and doesn’t immediately reject it as a void product despite his void paranoia induced by wallman

[obtuse gyro]

Its to show how his paranoia grew, first its "okay" then its a lil bit eh then its "what have I done"

[cyan crest]

but then he would reject it because it is a void product and not because it would mean perpetuating the existence of the escaped indifference

[obtuse gyro]

The products in that section all have to do with travel (except for the regal domes no idea what its for) which is encapsulated in the line "i put the stars in reach blah blah blah"

The wanderlust bit

[cyan crest]

note how he only rejects it because the body hoping would keep him alive and, if he is not himself, perpetuate wallman beyond the wall

[obtuse gyro]

Hm? Thats what Im saying. Hes rejecting it out of the paranoia of wallman, but hes taking us through his journey on how he got there

[cyan crest]

the thing is the reasoning behind rejecting it

[obtuse gyro]

Which is wallman

Its like uuuuuh

123 is his journey through kuva

AB is continuity and wanderlust

We're looking at
1A
2B
3A
For structure in his shtick

[cyan crest]

if it was a product of void traveling, he would reject it outright (after the paranoia grew) because it is directly linked to wally
instead he rejects it in fear that perpetuating himself is perpetuating wally
too unconnected for this to be this related

[obtuse gyro]

Its not a product of void traveling, thats why its in the continuity section (1A) and not the wanderlust section (2B)

[cyan crest]

really the only thing that can reconcile my views on both points is the synthetic approach of Albrecht inadvertently linking void and kuva by complete accident, rather than spawning kuva by complete accident

[cyan crest]

i meant void traveling as void related research in general

[cyan crest]

because the entire wording of the logs feels like the orokin were already unending even before the void

[obtuse gyro]

I dont think he'd reject the application of his research so long as its not on himself after the paranoia sets in

[obtuse gyro]

Thats because of more we end as we began stuff

He starts of with "we are now endless" and ends with "I am not continuing"

[cyan crest]

but that’s exactly my point, he doesn’t reject it as an application of his research but rather as a means of perpetuation

[obtuse gyro]

Yea so whats the issue here? The journey he takes is one where he grows paranoid and doesnt want to give wally continuity no caps

[wraith eagle]

He did after all provide the reservoir capsules and heart and such.

[cyan crest]

the thing is, thematic as it may be, he never purposely links kuva and void as direct cause and effect in the logs, not once
in any case me go sleep, me take the synthesis approach because it makes me brain less confused, confusing and nonsensical as it is by itself

and with a new conception of the topic by my hand, i do not, in fact, end as i began

good night everyone

[obtuse gyro]

He goes from we are now immortal to a more "endless" type of humanity in that entry. Until the "now" only humanity was immortal through continuity now orokin are immortal with Continuity

[obtuse gyro]

He doesnt need to, we get that from "void derived fluid" which to me identifies it as post research

[cyan crest]

wait a damn second where is that said

me no go sleep me need to know

[viscid quarry]

Forget about the whole “sleep” scam

Embrace curiosity

[obtuse gyro]

The tablet things

[cyan crest]

i have almost ran out of coffee i cannot afford to sleep less

[lean lily]

this is why you're short 🙏

[cyan crest]

mucking tablet things

they have destroyed my entire point!

i didn’t know they said that!

oh my god so much talking could have been prevented!!

[wraith eagle]

The consequences of warframe lore. You are given sixteen pieces to build a foundation, but unfortunately not the other sixteen, so your foundation is screwed, but the game still tries to build on that.

[cyan crest]

i am going to throw myself into the void

[obtuse gyro]

"Fluid with Void-derived capacity to conduct consciousness (correct)"

[wraith eagle]

The void is sleep XD.

[nova harness]

Do it or I’ll throw you in

[cyan crest]

TO BE FAIR the fluid itself is not said to be void-derived!!!!!

[viscid quarry]

Sodas work then

[obtuse gyro]

Which is fair

[viscid quarry]

Allow me to do the honors instead

[cyan crest]

i got no sodas :( i got a bed
good night

[obtuse gyro]

But their mechanism is indeed void derived, which to be faira again we have countless examples in history where we use a thing without knowing how it works

[cyan crest]

yay

[viscid quarry]

Then embrace the cold hard floor

[nova harness]

Sorry I destroyed your bed with a Void blast

[viscid quarry]

Or idk bring out the illicit materials instead to help out

[cyan crest]

tempting

[obtuse gyro]

Sorry void blast was removed

[viscid quarry]

Alternatively, order some food and a package of sodas

[viscid quarry]

Void sling is go then

[nova harness]

I used time travel to get it back

[viscid quarry]

Can you fetch a pre nerf maiming strike aswell?

Whippings work to deny sleep

[nova harness]

It shall be done

[viscid quarry]

Wait hold on

What’s the best thing we could get via that lol

Perhaps force someone back to ancient warframe gameplay where 18 damage and lvl 1 where standard on mercury

[cyan crest]

universal vacuum

[nova harness]

How bout I reverse all bad nerfs

[viscid quarry]

Oh Lordy lord

That would be beautiful

[nova harness]

I’m definitely going to break a timeline doing all this

[viscid quarry]

Eh time is a fickle thing

[nova harness]

Should I bring back void dash?

[viscid quarry]

Yep

[obtuse umbra]

😭 i did it guys finally finished the new war quest LMAO 6hours lel (+1 hour break)

okei back to sleep xD been up since 4am kekw

[rugged marsh]

What'd you choose?

[obtuse umbra]

lotus LOL, wanted margulis (for looks) but came to find out i can customize n chg her look either way later on

[novel carbon]

I chose natah

[frank portal]

margulis my beloved (her transmissions has no voice filter)

[long bloom]

Sooo out of curiosity.. who else made Bird 3 into a chocobo after getting the max rank at the lab? XD

[steady stag]

on atop of Dominus's Palace

[steady stag]

tbf he wants to be yellow lol

https://tenor.com/view/chocobo-final-fantasy-dance-vibe-final-fantasy-vii-gif-11163883112137852512

[desert cargo]

I turned Bird 3 into a chocobo too. Fibonacci was turned into an ugly green monstrosity, which didn't require much work. And I turned Tagfer into an edgy red and black creature of the night.

[misty ore]

@open talon

You wanna know how to get archon mods?

It’s from a new currency from kahl

After doing the new war quest

[nova harness]

Inaros Main what did you think about being forced into using Drifter and Operator for 90% of that quest?

[open talon]

SPOILERS BRO

[misty ore]

Sad that I couldn’t ehp tank but still refreshing to die

[misty ore]

You kept asking questions about it so I answered

Also we can only answer questions like that here

:Oh no SPOILERS
realizes they’re in spoiler chat

[nova harness]

Sir, this is spoiler chat

[mellow herald]

on one hand, you DID ping them

on the other, you didn't spoil anything, nemesis did

[misty ore]

I mean yeah but a big red ping

On #spoiler-chat

Oooooo. @nova harness you in trooooooubleeeee

[nova harness]

In that chat called spoiler chat

Inaros Main brought them here

[mellow herald]

nothing against the rules, just slightly mistimed to spoil to the new guy

[misty ore]

Nuh uh

[nova harness]

I didn’t ping them

[wild copper]

Spoilers in the spoiler chat?
Incomprehensible

[nova harness]

Spoiler chat the chat where seeing spoilers you don’t understand is your own risk

[viscid quarry]

You still brought unbearable shame upon your person and legacy

(Am kidding)

[nova harness]

I’m evil

[viscid quarry]

A great menace clearly

[nova harness]

And I’m called Nemesis it’s in the name

[viscid quarry]

Ok time to apply resident evil logic sends you to resident evil 2 remake

alternatively I bring out my good friend the felrax

The great evil is defeated and peace reigns for 100 years insert the rest of the generic speech regarding beating a great evil

[wicked inlet]

Does lotus die? I kind of don’t want her to die

[desert cargo]

Continuing from gameplay

In the scene where Operator is checking in on the classmates, Rell can be found sitting on the floor alone, using his cards and talking about his mama.

[obtuse gyro]

Just keep playing homie

[near rune]

There is a student with a picture of his mother who talks about her but he is identified as Berryn, not Rell. Some have said Rell is the student towards the back who we don't interact with, but that's up for debate.

[desert cargo]

It's annoying when it isn't confirmed but it teases the concept.

[devout pine]

who is this

is it the operator

or who

[ionic sleet]

I believe that's the 'canon operator' Mara.

[devout pine]

who is mara... lol lost my brain cells

[ionic sleet]

Mara is DE's internal name for the op.

[devout pine]

but the op is sleeping at that time right

like on lua

[devout pine]

?

[obtuse gyro]

when they write out our script they use Mara on the script for us

[devout pine]

ok

[tropic venture]

This is during the Old War, they were put in the Second Dream when it ended by the Lotus

[steady heath]

just realised albrecht is not arthur

[obtuse gyro]

Correct

[tropic venture]

yeah, Albrecht talked to him in the quest (well tbf he was moreso talking to us but)

[nova harness]

Where did you get that idea?

[steady heath]

when arthur got to albrecht

[nova harness]

Who did you think the actual Arthur was?

If you thought Arthur was Albrecht

[tropic venture]

they literally meet, how could they be the same

[edgy rose]

well i mean we did meet "ourselves" on the 10-0

[tropic venture]

yes, which was possible due to that being in the Void

[nova harness]

Ourselves was also different because Arthur and Albrecht are called different names Albrecht also looked nothing like us Albrecht in Whispers also made a recording speaking to us and Arthur and Albrecht designed the Vessels based on Arthur

[devout pine]

true

[cyan crest]

<@&778745217037238293>

[ember fable]

So I went to the outside area of the sanctum and I found a small phone with its ring tone going off

[obtuse gyro]

that would be from albrecht

[flat magnet]

Yeah it’s his pager

[halcyon siren]

What are the consequences of drinking the Kuva in the war within?

[nova harness]

Hey, kiddo, what took you so long

[halcyon siren]

Is that it that line of dialogue

[nova harness]

Yes

There’s 3 different lines you can hear depending on choice

[ember fable]

damn, bro forgot his nokia

[hard dawn]

why would u not drink the funny red liquid

bet it tastes like red gatorade yummy

[nova harness]

And you get the most respectful comment from void man

[hard dawn]

i love that guy he's my best friend

[nova harness]

But he’s mad at you rn

[hard dawn]

always so lovely to check up on me in my ship

mad? at me? impossible

we're besties

[nova harness]

Don’t you remember the We had a deal the deal was shook a little handshake all it took and from the deal the wee child ran yet still we end as we began where he was destroying a Lotus?

[hard dawn]

i do, but sometimes besties have falling outs & i understand

i'd offer him some tea but he vanishes before i get a chance to

[nova harness]

What about the time he tried to kill you?

[hard dawn]

are u really best friends if u haven't tried to kill each other at least once?

[nova harness]

True

[hard dawn]

look i just get excited when i see him show up i love wally i'm his #1 fan

i want to show him my room full of plushies

i think he would like them

[nova harness]

Are you his number one fan because you are the Void?

[hard dawn]

.

maybe

i've always liked void imagery in media & when i was told warframe was full of void stuff i clung onto it

so u could say that's one reason but he's just so silly

also i wrote a warframe fanfic with him in it so he lives in my head rent free

always occupying my small brain

[nova harness]

He’s your roommate wdym

[hard dawn]

so true

just wish he would pay rent

im broke!!!

[nova harness]

You can’t get the rent he’s gone too quick

[hard dawn]

he's a dine & dasher for sure

[nova harness]

Wanna know my theory of where he goes?

[hard dawn]

absolutely

[nova harness]

Nowhere

[viscid quarry]

Blow it up then

[nova harness]

He just goes no clip

[hard dawn]

schrodinger's cat

he's nowhere & everywhere

sometimes i like to go in operator form (he ignores me as the drifter for some reason) & stand by the reliquary drive in the railjack just for a bit of light gossip

[viscid quarry]

Blow up that too, explosives solve a great many problems

[nova harness]

Can you even blow up a person in no clip?

[hard dawn]

explode him with ur mind

[nova harness]

Have you ever been visited by him twice in 1 day?

[hard dawn]

yes! today, actually

he actually shows up in my ship a lot

like more than i thought he would. my gf even said "he doesn't show up for me that much?" so. he's playing favourites, obviously

built diff

[nova harness]

I once offered him to a Wall duel but he ran away

[hard dawn]

i wasn't sure if he could show up in the drifter's camp bc i saw no video evidence so i tested it out & low & behold he showed up twice in a day in the camp. so. yea

I wish we could befriend him, or something. he seems lonely, even with all the trickery & scheming

imo

[nova harness]

He wants to be us

[hard dawn]

i don't blame him

everyone in the system wants to be us

[nova harness]

He might go and kill mom tho

[hard dawn]

as much as i love dear mother, she's holding back on us

[nova harness]

We haven’t seen her for a quest

What do you think she’s up to?

[hard dawn]

no idea, but she's seen the man in the wall & refuses to speak abt it. whether she's too afraid to, or simply doesn't know what to do abt it yet, idk. but keeping everything a secret is sus to me, especially when she relies on us so much. yet she can't confide in us? something is afoot

she's not being open, at all. it's not the first time she's shut down on us like this, & i understand. this is essentially an eldritch deity, as old as time itself, in our midst. but for her to go radio silent when we have done so much for her is. a little hurtful, imo

don't think i hate the lotus btw. i love her so much. she's an angel

i just wish she would see that she needs us just as much as we need her & communication is key

[nova harness]

It’s impossible to hate the Lotus

[hard dawn]

I wouldn't say it's impossible, but considering all that she has done for us, it's hard to, but not impossible. still, i have no ill feelings towards her

[nova harness]

Her dark side on the other hand

I hate that

[hard dawn]

i want to see more of her dark side imo. bite someone. go crazy!!!

[nova harness]

Her dark side has a weird voice

[hard dawn]

what version of her did u pick for her? at the end of the new war?

[nova harness]

Lotus with Margulis skin

[hard dawn]

aww! that's nice

i personally went with natah. i feel like she shouldn't have to hide her true self

[nova harness]

Margilus has a better looking outfit and Voice Lotus I chose because that’s who she chose to be for so long that’s what I was used to

[hard dawn]

yea!! i understand that completely

[nova harness]

Who did you pick between Operator and Drifter for last act?

[hard dawn]

oh drifter for sure. i am not a fan of small teenager

i mainly just stay as drifter. fits me better as an adult, i think

[nova harness]

I chose Operator for my first play through then Drifter for the second

[hard dawn]

oohh i should do that. i wonder what the voice line differences would be

i wish to replay the angels of zariman for that exact reason, alas, no replayability yet 😔

[nova harness]

I doubt they will give it a replay option because it was so short

[hard dawn]

maybe, but i hope so. 😦 i like lore hunting in this game

[nova harness]

I might watch a YouTube vid to see if I can see Drifter

[hard dawn]

oh did u go thru angels of zariman as operator?

[nova harness]

Yeah because Drifter didn’t much outfits back then

[hard dawn]

ahh, yea. they still don't, let's be real 😭

iirc drifter sarcastically says they should've stayed in duviri at some point which i thought was really funny

[nova harness]

I want the Commador or something like that for Drifter

[hard dawn]

yea! there was another operator outfit i saw that i wish was on drifter but ive forgotten the name of it

[nova harness]

Most of them would look so good on Drifter

[hard dawn]

yes fr!!

[royal beacon]

Yeah I remember him saying that when you do the railjack section of the new war iirc

[hard dawn]

oh was it there? i thought they mention it again in the angels of zariman but i could be entirely wrong

they do, however, show a significant amount of distain for the zariman. & for a good reason, obviously

[royal beacon]

I don't remember duviri being mentioned in zariman but my memory is a Lil bad

[royal beacon]

I don't blame em, imagine being stuck in what's essentially an abandoned preschool for who knows how long

[hard dawn]

understandable, mine too 🤝

[royal beacon]

Actually yeah, how long was drifter in the zariman? Was he stuck there the moment we made the deal? Cuz that's centuries of just being there

[hard dawn]

it's hard to say, definitely long enough to have grown into an adult & then be trapped in duviri

[nova harness]

There’s no answer to this due to paradox

[royal beacon]

Dangit

[hard dawn]

& then time there is ?????? all sorts of weird

[royal beacon]

Time is double relative in duviri cuz pocket void space shenanigans

[hard dawn]

all i know is drifter is so much stronger than i bc i would've gone insane by day 3 & probably would've eaten any void tendrils that grow out of the walls yummy snacks

[nova harness]

He was on the ship a while before Duviri set in tho

Was before there was a New War

Duviri had its own Chains of Harrow moment

[hard dawn]

sure did

chains fell from the sky & lacerated people who didn't take shelter, iirc

[royal beacon]

I blame rell

[hard dawn]

not rell 😭 he tried his best

[royal beacon]

He deserved a nap

[nova harness]

Wasn’t his fault he had a strong bond with god

[royal beacon]

God has favorites

[hard dawn]

fr

[royal beacon]

Rell was not one them, he got all the hardest struggles

[hard dawn]

strongest of us all

I miss him

[royal beacon]

Did we kill rell or just subdue him? Idr the ending of chains of harrow

[nova harness]

Technically we never see Rell die

[hard dawn]

i think we "put him to rest"

take that as u will

[royal beacon]

Man, I sure hope no horrors of the void leak through outside of wally

[hard dawn]

he definitely isn't holding back wally no more, that's for sure

oops! all void horrors

[royal beacon]

But wally was always running about even before we box rell

[nova harness]

Hopefully we won’t see his Heralds anytime soon

Definitely won’t happen

[hard dawn]

he was, but rell was keeping him at bay, as well as a lighthouse keeper in duviri (forgot his name oops)

[royal beacon]

Imagine his heralds are like the acolytes, but way harder

[royal beacon]

Happens to the best of us

[hard dawn]

garmi? i think?

[nova harness]

Yes

[royal beacon]

Rip albretchs Island tho, it'll forever be missed

[nova harness]

Dude god yeeted a man

[royal beacon]

God made us play fight with his action figures

[hard dawn]

the fact wally wrote himself into duviri too, like some self-insert character. smh he wants to feel included

[royal beacon]

Is there a stronger being than wally? I imagine the tau system has been cooking up something devious

[hard dawn]

literal fanfic writer energy i love that abt him

[royal beacon]

Bros the kid by himself at lunch who's like "everyone leaves me"

[nova harness]

The Void Revenue Service

[royal beacon]

We better start running, no one can fight the void revenue system! Not even wally!

[hard dawn]

wally: um this is my duviri character ummm he's like me 🙂
drifter: that's cringe. ur cringe

[nova harness]

I know who can beat Wally

[hard dawn]

otak

for sure

[nova harness]

Unum

[hard dawn]

that was my second guess

[nova harness]

I know another person

This man even hurt God before

[hard dawn]

i reckon kahl would slap wally into next tuesday

id be afraid

[royal beacon]

Ordis 1 shots

Wally was in our orbiter because ordis allowed it

[hard dawn]

ordis literally letting in the stray smh

[royal beacon]

I wanna see wally shot out of the airlock

[nova harness]

Actually Ordis can’t see him they just sense a presence they can’t describe

[hard dawn]

true. cy says that

asks u to describe it to him

[royal beacon]

Nah, ordis intimidates wally into not leaving the void often

[hard dawn]

uhhhhh he looks like me but less cool that's the best description i got

[royal beacon]

Don't get me started on how trashcan ordis bullies wally in any fight

[hard dawn]

trashcan ordis 😭

he's just a lil guy. he got no thoughts

[royal beacon]

No thoughts, only float

[nova harness]

I bet a bad smell could beat him

[royal beacon]

Kubrow negs

[nova harness]

Send him to Eris

[hard dawn]

we should be nice to wally what if he just wants a friend 😦

[nova harness]

Deimos is busy

[hard dawn]

id give him my floof collection

[nova harness]

If he did he wouldn’t keep running

[hard dawn]

look. he's old as time itself. he doesn't know how to communicate properly & refuses to learn how to use the inbox

boomer energy

boomer in the wall

[nova harness]

I’ll send Albrecht after him

He’s a teacher

[hard dawn]

albercht is a lost cause at this point. i remember what yonta said

[nova harness]

Yonta has some weird dreams

[hard dawn]

I don't blame her

im surprised our operator/drifter doesn't experience stress induced nightmares more often, but that's maybe bc they don't sleep. or are never shown to be sleeping

can't sleep, we on that grind

[nova harness]

We got therapy

[hard dawn]

DE pls add a naptime area to the orbiter so the operator can snork mimimimimimi

THERAPY?? no therapy in the world could fix what we experienced

just smile & wave, tenno

[nova harness]

Well it worked apparently

That’s why the quest was called War Within

[hard dawn]

i think that was more self discovery than therapy

i wouldn't be surprised if operator/drifter has PTSD from everything they've been thru & i think that should be explored more

[nova harness]

We don’t actually know what Dreams we had

We was asleep for Generations

[hard dawn]

that's true

more sleep is needed

snoooork mimimimimi

[nova harness]

We do sleep

Ordis knows we do

Ordis knows when we leave

Ordis knows too much

[viscid quarry]

We do?

[viscid quarry]

Considering he had the vitruvian jacked into him that is probably true

[nova harness]

Teshins an alright therapist

[viscid quarry]

He’s got trauma also he doesn’t count

[nova harness]

I’d have trauma too if I was thrown into the Void

[viscid quarry]

Hence he doesn’t count for therapist

Nora kinda does tbh

[nova harness]

He got that trauma long after helping us

In War Within

[viscid quarry]

Again he’s got too much trauma to be a therapist

For gods sake he’s a soldier, his form of therapy is conclave and that ain’t therapy

[nova harness]

What do you think about Margilus’s way of therapy?

[viscid quarry]

Effective but well she’s dead and now it’s used to control walking war crime meat puppets

[warped mist]

Anyone knows if its possible to change the warframe apperance in teshins cave? I know i can do it for the drifter but for warframes it only shows the option to configure mods.

So i guess it will always take the first slot appearance for every warframe?

[viscid quarry]

Correct

[warped mist]

Thx

[covert tree]

I'd be cool if you could customise them though

[nova harness]

You can customise them before entering Duviri

[covert tree]

I know thankfully all my best fashion is slot one also I can customise them in the zarmin and walk all the way to duviri

For convenience

[nova harness]

Them adding it to the Zariman is probably why you can’t customise it in the cave

[covert tree]

Yeah I just meant frames you don't own so you could do more then have fun with there kit

Anyway this is starting to turn from spoilers to a regular talk

[topaz pagoda]

I think it’s frozen

[topaz pagoda]

New War might be better than The Sacrifice to me now

[strange moon]

Is it normal to see the red Orokin text after visiting the Strata Relay?

[ocean void]

Yeah, pretty much

[tawny mason]

just hit cavia rank 4 and even though i thought it impossible, i love bird 3 even more now

[glossy axle]

i think i uhhhh closed my profile too quickly yesterday and i was stuck in this screen

it should be noted that this wasn't my loadout, barring the obvious my frame/operator don't look like that iirc I was using Qorvex for starters

[nova harness]

Operator took off their clothes

[glossy axle]

and wig apparently lmao

man, oppy is naked

like, compared to my loadout lmao

[nova harness]

It looked like it changed gender too

Which gender is your Operator?

[glossy axle]

female (at least in headcanon) iirc she uses the raven voice?? I'd have to check

either way i tried to have her move fem-coded

[nova harness]

It also changed skin colour

Imagine this is what our Operators do when we log off

[glossy axle]

and drifter i figure

[nova harness]

Dew it

[viscid quarry]

Might draw mod attention but racism to orokin is fiiine

[ocean void]

Orokin probably change body

Before they died

[nova harness]

Not probably they did

Orokin should see a doctor about their skin colour

[ocean void]

wait, do they get the color pass

[prime lantern]

Why does your name say remix

[nova harness]

The next time you open up someone else's image or upload your own, you'll see a new “Remix” button. Tap that, and let your creativity go wild with a new set of editing tools directly in Discord. Once you're done, hit Send to share it with the world (or, ya'know, the chat).

[near rune]

???????? i didn't post that?????

[near rune]

ohhhhh my phone was in my pocket, it must have opened discord and just remixed some random person's message? i have no idea what was going on, i was just hiking haha

[nova harness]

Yeah

[near rune]

super weird lol. i deleted it

[coarse turret]

interesting

[nova harness]

<@&778745217037238293>

Actually if someone is breaking the rules they tell you to ping them to keep the community safe from scams

Was a steam 50$ scam

[balmy storm]

When would a new player gain access to Lua and Voruna’s missions?

[hollow cliff]

Lua I just got access to its during quests in your codex

When you have to save Lua and unlock the tenno in your orbiter

It's our two or three quests in ☺️

Only*

[frank portal]

Ya would also need an amp good enough to blast the thrax. Doing it with mote amp is.. unadvised

[fiery surge]

So I did a weird handshake and suddenly got golden experience requiemed

Space magic is unpredictable

[tropic venture]

You took the deal

[fiery surge]

At least I don't get death looped like Diaolvo

Instead I got uhh..
Retry button and mission farming on demand

And a retry on death for dying/veiled in Quests

[nova harness]

You got time looped though

[fiery surge]

Then I have to beat three archons:
Vanoss, Fox from 20XX & Medusa with a huge headshot hitbox

All while operator me is in Detroit

[amber terrace]

Whose voice is more attractive, Albrecht’s or Hunhow’s?

[royal beacon]

Albrecht

[amber terrace]

I’m torn between the two because Hunhow’s performance during The New War was amazing, and Albrecht’s lines during Whispers are also amazing

Like Hunhow is a scary type of attractive where you know that at any given moment he can tear you in half but Albrecht’s attractive is like more tender?

[nova harness]

None compares to the power of Cys

[fiery surge]

Hunhow is more of: "I could kill you anytime but I have to be friends just because we have a worse problem"

[amber terrace]

Cy’s attractive is kind of like a more experienced coworker who doesn’t mind barking orders but at the same time carries a great deal of trauma

[nova harness]

That’s exactly why his mission was called the enemy of my enemy

[amber terrace]

“I could kill you at anytime but I have to be friends because we have a worse problem”
Yeah, so it’s similar to the scary kind of attractive where you know that at any given moment he could tear you in half

[fiery surge]

Does the optional parts in the New War have an effect?

Like rescuing ostron prisoners

Or unveiling them

[royal beacon]

Not outside of making you feel like a good person

[fiery surge]

I honestly thought it'd have some sort of effect like the vor's prize mission

[near rune]

To be fair, the Vor's Prize mission also has basically no effect, just a difference in the dialogue lines Lotus says. You don't get a prize for saving the colonists.

Which I think is actually a cool way for DE to play it

[royal beacon]

Has the same effect as the morality decisions do

[amber terrace]

So what exactly is Necraloid? Clearly he’s not a Cephalon by our current understanding of how Cephalons are created unless Albrecht thought to clone Loid and glass the clone of Loid

Necraloid can’t be AI either given how the Orokin had their one good idea of abhorring Abominable Intelligence

[obtuse gyro]

Who says albrecht is above blashphemy

[near rune]

My theory is that he is just a cephalon, and the Orokin were fully capable of cephalisation without destroying the original human, but just didn't. But Albrecht made a cephalon from Loid's mind without killing him because he's the only normal Orokin.

[prime lantern]

He's a better one but I'm still holding off on saying he's morally good

He's more necessary evil

[fading flame]

loid and otak are still just constructs

cephalons made from people

[nova harness]

Otak is a Cephalon Loid is a Construct

[near rune]

We don't know that constructs are necessarily distinct from cephalons. Necraloid describes himself as a cephalon, and you could say that was part of his memory being repressed or you could take it at face value.

[nova harness]

Or he was lying because he knew about the assassination of Orokin

[near rune]

The assassination of Orokin?

[nova harness]

Remember when we woke up one day and realised Orokin was bad?

[near rune]

That's not really what happened, and Necraloid is clearly not thinking about that because he's very clear that we are supposed to help him because of our service to the Orokin. Plus there are loads of cephalons that are not Orokin-aligned these days.

This guy is not worried about Tenno uprising lol

[nova harness]

Does this mean he doesn’t know?

[near rune]

I actually forgot how pro-Orokin he was being until I found this message haha

No he knows for sure. Hold on.

I think he just assumes we're out of our Orokin-killing phase

Or that saving the Heart will be a more important focus

[nova harness]

Was it that Father couldn’t fix the heart anymore?

[near rune]

Yeah

[nova harness]

How did they manage before there was a Heart?

[near rune]

Manage what? The Entrati themselves don't really depend on it. It just powers a lot of tech. Maybe the most relevant thing to them is keeping Deimos in the Void or something (which is kinda moot because they solved that problem by… leaving the Void).

[nova harness]

It's what makes you special, you know that, right? This quote doesn’t actually seem right because it doesn’t make us special Wally did

So the Entrati family just assumed it gave us powers?

[fading flame]

yes, the heart is how all void tech is powered but not tenno void powers

[near rune]

Albrecht never told anyone (except Loid) about the Man in the Wall. So no one knows about the deal. They just thought the Tenno went into the Void and got powers from it. The Heart makes all Void technology work so yes, according to that perspective the Heart as a proxy for the Void made us special.

[nova harness]

If the heart was destroyed we would still have the same powers though right

[near rune]

Well no. The Heart stops beating during the quest and the Tenno loses their powers.

You can't do Operator stuff and your warframe's powers don't work (or shields). All you can do is weak Transference (controlling the warframe and Necramech), which is not unique to Tenno (other people can do Transference with Orokin tech).

[fading flame]

the heart powers warframes and such but the tenno powers themself no

transference is an innate ability of the tenno that was duped by orokin void tech

[near rune]

As far as we know, the Heart powers all Void technology and activity (in the physical world; Void stuff works fine in the Void). Tenno powers are Void-based except for Transference, which I think might just be a mundane technique that the Void makes a lot easier.

[obtuse gyro]

I think that Transference is also void based, since its a matter of conciousness, just that the tenno are able to do so without technology once they've unlocked their powers. Note that we no longer need our chair

[fading flame]

due to the nature of our deal once we reawakened in the second dream we're our own source of void energy

afaik

we personally don't need the heart, other tenno may

[robust hearth]

can someone help me grind mars olympus?

[fading flame]

afaik warframes rely on the heart existing as well, and the heart may strengthen us still while not near the void

also if the heart died so would the solar rails

and that would be really bad

[obtuse gyro]

Then again due to the reordering of the quests by DE post WITW new tenno would not reach TSD before Heart of Deimos

So us being another source of the void doesnt apply here, which makes it make more sense why our frame goes kaput

[fading flame]

yeah

i think personally at least that makes the most sense

we're relying on orokin transference tech until TSD bc our void powers have been suppressed

heart of deimos is supposed to be a beginner quest but they made it later so it feels out of order

[wraith eagle]

Oh god I forgot the heart says screw you, you suck XD

[nova harness]

#squad-recruitment

[steady stag]

huh? no?

thought you like shaking||, Wally, you've done that like 36M times||

[desert cargo]

I don't think that person is Indifference, but then again, I don't know if it's been talked about in lore yet. Wally already destroyed a few Duviri islands with Deez Hands.

[nova harness]

He’s missing the same finger and has black eyes

[desert cargo]

Nevermind, just read up on Vagabond. I just based it on my own experience, where he just laughed, said nothing and stood there. I didn't see him in other locations like behind Sythel's house.

[amber terrace]

I have a question regarding the narrative character development of the Cavia

From what I’ve seen after hitting R5 shortly after Whispers came out, Fibonacci evolved from an uptight know it all to having an amount of self awareness and actually showing remorse, Tagfer went from being consumed by rage and guilt to swallowing his unthinkable grief for the sake of the Sanctum, Loid went from slightly condescending to slightly more sympathetic to the Cavia, and Bird 3 was relatively static throughout the whole Cavia rank up process. Sure Bird’s dialogue in the R4 cutscene seems like Bird’s words are a new phenomenon, however I’d like to point out that Bird’s philosophical musings haven’t really changed from R0 to R5

[amber terrace]

Like is Bird 3 meant to be a mostly static character? Either way I really like how DE wrote them

[weary bramble]

I love Bird 3, they're a beautiful intelligent idiot <3

[desert cargo]

I think they're a sort of comic relief to the depressing reality of the Cavia's messed up origins.

[weary bramble]

Oh 100%

[desert cargo]

Bird didn't really have any purpose to the Cavia, he's just happy existing.

[weary bramble]

Bird just wants to sell you shinies he finds and also enjoy the wonder that is the ability of thought

[obtuse gyro]

Bird 3 is the one with the most accidental knowledge of wally

[weary bramble]

He's the only one who properly thinks imo, actually contemplating existence

[tropic venture]

Bird 3 is simple, but he's far from dumb

[woven bramble]

Bird 3 nearly got fried fish for dinner

[nova harness]

Bird 3 asked to have downgraded intelligence

[desert cargo]

Truly a decision of someone with the highest intellect.

[amber terrace]

I would argue that given Bird 3’s persistent musings about their condition and the world around them show that under the hood, it can be reasonably extrapolated that Bird 3 is, in an abstract sense, smarter than Fibonacci or Tagfer

Fibonacci is solely focused on Albrecht’s plans and that tunnel vision limits him; Tagfer, even after R5 Illuminate, still lets his grief hold him back; whereas Bird seems more in touch with what’s going on around them and their own condition

Compare the extracted dialogue on GrayArchon’s Orokin Archives. From minute one Bird is already analyzing their environment, the conditions of the rest of the Cavia, and their own condition

[static raven]

ayo which one

[desert cargo]

You get them all eventually. Just choose between the adapter or a reactor.

[tawny mason]

so i recently read the warframe ghouls comics and realised something, Little duck refers to the events in the comics in one of her voice lines "Been seein' a lot of your kind since a certain incident with a blind girl and a Void Gate." i always wondered what she was talking about and i finally know lol

[strange moon]

Does anybody have an emoji of a Thrax possessing an Exolizer?

[hollow radish]

If I remember right, it's ambiguously set before or after TSD but definitely set pre-TWW. In the version of events where it's post-TSD, Deimos exited the Void around the same time as Lua. In the version of events where it's pre-TSD, Deimos was isolated up until Grandmother orchestrated the plot to get the family cooperating again.

I'm not completely sure though.

It's also a little janky because as mentioned in the Heart of Deimos reveal devstream, Deimos was originally slated to be post-TNW.

...Or one of the pre-Deimos devstreams talking about the update, I forget which.

[warped mist]

Just unlocked the zariman suite

So now i need something to put in lol

[obtuse gyro]

Heart of Deimos now cannonically is intended to occur before TSD and is a main quest now

[obtuse gyro]

You are required to clear Heart of Deimos in order to progress through the ceres junction now, placing HoD before TSD

[nova harness]

Does the codex show this?

[obtuse gyro]

Your junction shows this. As well as DE's updated new player progression path in their Update 35 patchnotes

Awakening
Vor’s Prize
Saya’s Vigil
Once Awake
Heart of Deimos
The Archwing
Natah
The Second Dream
Rising Tide
The War Within
Chains of Harrow
Apostasy Prologue
The Sacrifice
Prelude to War
The New War
Whispers in the Walls```

[nova harness]

Why isn’t Duviri on the list?

[obtuse gyro]

Like AoTZ, you are not required to clear duviri

[tropic venture]

it is listed as a side quest in the codex

[nova harness]

Oh

[strange moon]

What about Angels of the Zariman?

[tropic venture]

also a Side Quest in the codex

I think, anyways

[strange moon]

If I'm not mistaken, AotZ is actually a main quest

[tropic venture]

yeah it might be

[obtuse gyro]

Its not part of the new player progression up to Whispers

[covert tree]

There aren't enough theories about the two different reliquary drives

[viscid quarry]

We don’t have really THAT much to work off of

So theories will remain few and far between until more information is released

[tropic venture]

well, the two "different" reliquary drives, since the Finger more-so exists in multiple instances at once rather than full-on multiple copies

[covert tree]

Ah so it's just the man in the walls finger

Wich adds to its ability of void travel

[tropic venture]

yes, it's the finger Wally is missing, that was cut off by the Untime Gate being closed as he was reaching out as Albrecht

it's what lead to all Void technology and proper effective space travel

[covert tree]

Huh neat

[tropic venture]

The Requiem Logs unlocked as you rank up in Entrati and Necraloid detail this first encounter

[viscid quarry]

Or you watch a YouTube video

[obtuse gyro]

Well, we know that the two finger drives are duplicates

The originals are sealed somewhere

[tropic venture]

yeah true, I meant more that there aren't like directly several fingers, just the same finger in multiple places/instances at once

One singular finger was cut off from Wally

[obtuse gyro]

If by same finger in multiple places because some goober duplicated it then yes

[tropic venture]

it seems more like the finger just "duplicates" on its own, hence why Yonta says that as long as the original is sealed away there aren't as many reliquary drives as there used to be

could be Wally attempting to manifest the Murmur and general Void influence in Reality

[obtuse gyro]

Finger doesnt know its not supposed to mitosis

[tropic venture]

yeah it might just be an innate thing that happens due to its Void nature, since Untime and such means all its past instances and locations still continue to exist despite the Finger itself being moved

Eternalism and such

[obtuse gyro]

Or better yet in biological terms: it is a stem cell dividing into more stem cells because its lost the command to differentiate into something narrower

[tropic venture]

Finger being moved from point A to point B doesn't mean it's not at point A anymore

[tropic venture]

yeah there's both proper scientific and mystic ways to explain it

[obtuse gyro]

5D chess go brrrr

Oh

Wait, perhaps Wally is attempting a jurrasic rook???

[tropic venture]

yep, same way the Zariman can be in the Origin system, in the Void and in Duviri all at once

I guess this whole concept would be classified under Unspace and Untime

One object's instances separated by both space and time can all be true together

So it's like: The Reliquary Finger is in the Zariman, and in the Railjacks, and in the labs, which could most directly be explained to reality as several copies of the finger

[prime lantern]

Are we suggesting that the finger isn't duplicating itself by creating another physical copy of itself rather just pulling another version of itself from time?

[tropic venture]

kinda, yeah

[prime lantern]

Neat

[tropic venture]

but moreso that the multiple instances of it exist together, than that the finger is directly pulling from other times

[viscid quarry]

So your saying that it’s using the aspect of eternalism or something to pull another one from it

[prime lantern]

It's grabbing itself from the future past or from alternative timelines

[viscid quarry]

Ah

Wait then what if those try to grab the one in the present

[prime lantern]

Then it vanishes for a infinitesimally small blip

[viscid quarry]

Ah

[prime lantern]

It's a 4d object so each instance of itself should be independent across time