spoiler-chat

[abstract trellis]

So there’s a lot of evidence that her mind got tampered with when she became the lotus I think

[obtuse gyro]

Yes but because she wanted them

[abstract trellis]

Yes but after ballas made her more like margulis right?

And unintentionally too much like her

[obtuse gyro]

It is possible that in ballas's brainwashing, coupled with natah's sterility, the Lotus went ham on wanting kids

[wild wind]

Yeah, during Prelude to War Natah starts acting weird

Starts feeling doubt

[abstract trellis]

Man how does the sterility thing even work if the sentient passed through the void on the way to tau initially

That’s a new topic I guess

[wild wind]

They didn't

[abstract trellis]

Wait they didn’t?

[wild wind]

They went at sublight speed the slow way

[abstract trellis]

Ohh

[wild wind]

The length of the voyage is the reason they went from being automated factory machines to sapient beings

[abstract trellis]

Okay then ballas has to be like unbelievably old

[wild wind]

Oh they're all 2000+ years old easily

[obtuse gyro]

continuity go brrrrr

[abstract trellis]

I assumed that was more like when they arrived but it could be both

[wild wind]

Ps the Zariman was before the Sentients

Possibly by a lot

[abstract trellis]

Yeah because ballas was already an orokin 7 before the sentient shipped out

Uh that doesn’t seem possible

Because then margulis predates the sentient

[wild wind]

Nope, it is!

[abstract trellis]

[wild wind]

She does!

[abstract trellis]

Wait actually maybe you’re right

[wild wind]

Transferrence tech wasn't created for the Warframes, it was repurposed for it

[abstract trellis]

Brain hurt

[wild wind]

It was therapy

[abstract trellis]

Yeah I remember that new loka quest

[wild wind]

The Tenno kids were half crazy, crippled and randomly firing void beams everywhere when stressed (also I think Rell was the one who blinded Margulis)

[abstract trellis]

But the warframes were repurposed to fight the sentient right

[wild wind]

No the Warframes came later too

[abstract trellis]

Okay so I think we have a contradiction there with the silver grove quest

Because Silva describes being chosen by margulis to work alongside her on transference therapy and then the project changing to making warframes midway through

[obtuse gyro]

oh nono! I've had this convo before

the trick is that theres a time skip

[wild wind]

No, there's just a few hundred years between Silvana's dairy entries

[obtuse gyro]

the jump between "yay transference" and "boo warframes" is a time skip

[abstract trellis]

Oh is it silvana

Isn’t she a human though

Like a not orokin I mean

[obtuse gyro]

not anymore

[abstract trellis]

Well yeah lol but how does she live long enough for that time skip

Without continuity

[obtuse gyro]

well for starters a few trivia questions

how old is Darvo?

[abstract trellis]

[obtuse gyro]

early 100

[abstract trellis]

Where is this going

[obtuse gyro]

darvo is considered a teen

[tall shoal]

Now ain't no way-

[abstract trellis]

What the hell

What the void

[obtuse gyro]

if a corpus teen is 100 years old, imagine how long an orokin era archimedian can live

[abstract trellis]

Okay so I guess your point is even base humans had long lifespans

[tall shoal]

Dang we would've been able to meet Albrecht or however his name is spelt

[obtuse gyro]

yep

the orokin just went for longer by continuity

[wild wind]

Oh yeah Albrecht was "alive" back then

[obtuse gyro]

still is alove now

[abstract trellis]

I don’t wanna think about albrecht oh god

[wild wind]

Just uhhhh... doing spooky void stuff

[abstract trellis]

1999 is too much

[tall shoal]

Albrecht spooky spooky man, can't wait to meet him, yk meet Mother's Father

[abstract trellis]

Wait okay guys I have more questions since we started talking about transference

[tall shoal]

I haven't actually unlocked Mother's name yet what is it 😭

[abstract trellis]

Why can Tenno transfer without the somatic link

Like without the reservoir and the room in the orbiter

I think those get called somatic links

[wild wind]

Turns out that it's part of their void powers

Being able to do it naturally

[abstract trellis]

So what was the point of transference therapy

[wild wind]

They just didn't know

[abstract trellis]

Oh

So training wheels

I guess

[wild wind]

Kinda! It's also possible that they developed the power because they wanted it hard enough.

[tall shoal]

Kinda? Idk but we need more info fr

[wild wind]

The void reacts to feelings, not thoughts

[abstract trellis]

Okay and then why do Tenno physically pop out of their warframes in missions and quests

[tall shoal]

✨ with the power of belief ✨

[wild wind]

We're straight up teleporting to it

[abstract trellis]

But like when you’re chilling on the orbiter they wake up in the somatic link room

Okay but why do we get teleported out of it

Like by that void angel attack or when ballas or the queens hit us in quests

[wild wind]

Like, it's the same principle as Belric and Rania's crystals being linked

[tall shoal]

Maybe it's kinda how Void Sling works and we just kapow

[abstract trellis]

Oh god

Not the citrine lore

[tall shoal]

Citrine 😨

[wild wind]

When we're in the chair we send our mind and soul into the Warframe and become the Warframe

[abstract trellis]

I haven’t read any of that

[wild wind]

But when we go Operator, we move the rest of us to it too

[abstract trellis]

Okay captain and then what happens when the void angel whacks us

I understand that part but what about when enemies force us into Tenno mode

Like they’re forcing us to teleport?

[wild wind]

"We" are inside the Warframe, we just happen to have a squishy meat(?) body back on the ship

I think the angel slaps us in that void connection

[abstract trellis]

I’m glad you clarified our bodies are squishy meat

[tall shoal]

YEAHHHH FLESH BAGS ‼️‼️‼️

[wild wind]

Mostly meat, probably.

[tall shoal]

With a lil void spice

[wild wind]

But maybe...

[tall shoal]

To endure what were able to endure it can't exactly be all squishy flesh baggy

[abstract trellis]

So okay you’re saying in the war within quest when the queen hits us out of our warframe so we can get orvius’d, and when ballas forces us out in the finale of new war, and when the void angel knocks us out and leaves our warframe in that cage, that’s all done kind of forced teleport?

And when those grineer guys throw the staffs with the red energy fields

I love that emote

[tall shoal]

💀 it imitates the "hmmm????" face perfectly

[wild wind]

Actually the queens don't hit the Operator

[abstract trellis]

Don’t they

It’s been a minute but don’t they blast em or something

[wild wind]

No, the Warframe

[abstract trellis]

Yeah

And the Tenno pops out

So is that forced teleport or what

[wild wind]

That's what freaks them out is the Tenno transferrencing there

[tall shoal]

So what was up with the queen stabbing a giant spike into the frames face

[abstract trellis]

Yeah

Like the queens brought us there against our will

Is what I remember

[wild wind]

That was Kuva, drilling into the Operator's soul to scoop us out and take our place

[abstract trellis]

Because I remember my butthole clenching at how vulnerable we were

[tall shoal]

Yeah she stabbed us or sm and we lost transference and then ordis says we're not the operator and if we don't escape he kills us

[wild wind]

No, because the Operator's soul and mind was present in the Warframe and that's what they needed to take over

[abstract trellis]

Well that was a false narrative lol

[wild wind]

The meat body doesn't show up until we jump there

[abstract trellis]

Albeit a hilarious one

Okay I’m just gonna stop questioning the void honestly

[tall shoal]

Eh it was the jist of it 😎

[abstract trellis]

Well no I mean wasn’t that not real

It was like a simulation in the orvius or something made by teshin

[tall shoal]

Was it?

[abstract trellis]

Innit

[tall shoal]

Idk I forgot most that quest LMAO

[near rune]

Amalgam project was done by Alad V, who no longer has to work with the Sentients after Ropalolyst's death. It's likely that Alad never gave them the full data because he didn't have to,

[abstract trellis]

Because we get back and ordis is like wtf are you talking about

[wild wind]

Not the Orvius so much as the Operator's mental world/soul

[tall shoal]

OH YEAH YOURE RIGHT MB

Also like why can't we kill Worm? We should, she's annoying

[abstract trellis]

Well no I mean wasn’t that all Teshin’s efforts

[wild wind]

Like the whole quest where we learn about transferrence is during the second between Ordis trying to cut the connection and actually successfully doing it

[abstract trellis]

Like he planned that

[graceful zodiac]

Because there's no way to get to her

[wild wind]

Yep

[near rune]

Killing Worm would create an unpredictable power vacuum which might turn out worse in the long run

[abstract trellis]

Why is she worm if kahl calls warframes worms

Why are there so many worms

[tall shoal]

wORmS

[abstract trellis]

There are other bugs

[wild wind]

Orowyrm
Infested worms on Deimos

Hmm you're onto something

[abstract trellis]

Helminth is a type of worm

[tall shoal]

I forgot about Fass and Vome tbh

[graceful zodiac]

It's very much not

[abstract trellis]

They’re thriving honestly

No like the actual helminth irl

[near rune]

Kahl calls Sentients worms, not warframes

[tall shoal]

Fass and Vome (even if they explode eachother regularly) are living their best deimos life

[near rune]

Helminth IRL refers to a type of worm, not in Warframe

[abstract trellis]

You’re right

Yeah helminth isn’t a word they made up

Hey did you guys know margulis is probably named after a biologist irl

[tall shoal]

So like, question, what's the one place on Deimos with the giant thing and inside there's a small room with a blue glowy thing, is that the heart? I haven't done that in ages either

[obtuse gyro]

not just kahl either, pretty sure Father does it too, as well as cy

[abstract trellis]

I came across that in all this

[obtuse gyro]

although I cant remember if it was wyrm or worm

[tall shoal]

Lynn Margulis

[abstract trellis]

No the heart is elsewhere, we go there during the quest. But idk what that is

[near rune]

Lynn Margulis, she came up with the endosymbiont theory which really changed cell biology, and then she had some other theories that are kinda out there

[abstract trellis]

Yeah you guys know your stuff

[tall shoal]

Yeah you're right, maybe we'll find out during Whispers in the walls

[tall shoal]

Narmer was an irl pharaoh

[abstract trellis]

I did know that actually

[tall shoal]

Dang, fun fact fail 😔

[abstract trellis]

Because I thought it was a stupid name so I looked it up

[obtuse gyro]

find out what? where the heart is?

[near rune]

I knew about Margulis before but I learned about Narmer from Warframe haha

[abstract trellis]

Nah what that thing is in Deimos

[tall shoal]

No what the glowy blue room is on deimos

[abstract trellis]

Margulis is such a pretty name

[tall shoal]

In the cambion drift

[obtuse gyro]

you need to clarify which room youre talking about

[wild wind]

The place on the overworld?

[near rune]

Do you mean the Cerebrum Magna?

[abstract trellis]

[tall shoal]

YES THATS ITS NAME

[wild wind]

I think that's Deimos's "brain"

[abstract trellis]

Gross

[tall shoal]

Whispers in the walls things??? Hopefully??????

[near rune]

Yeah they scrapped the final plans for that so it's just some random spot that looks weird

[wild wind]

Since the entire planet is a living infested (in progress)

Eris is the same but much further along

[obtuse gyro]

what does it look like?

[tall shoal]

Well WITW (I ain't spelling it again) would be a perfect opportunity to use that

[wild wind]

Whispers has a new tile set entirely

[obtuse gyro]

not entirely, Whispers doesnt take place in the main deimos tileset

[near rune]

It's a big round growth similar to the Necralisk, and when you go inside there's a glowing blue pit that you can fall into

[wild wind]

We'll have to wait for a potential Deimos/Drift update

[near rune]

I doubt Whispers in the Walls will have much about the Infested. Latrox Une says the Infested are scared of the Man in the Wall, so if there is Infested content I imagine it's just them running away from it.

[tall shoal]

No deimos things, no stalker lore, no equinox lore, I need more things to dooooo 😭 BUT WITW WILL BE COOL AND I CANNOT WAIT

[wild wind]

Whispers will be a Zariman 2.0

[prime lantern]

There's some stalker lore

[obtuse gyro]

OH the place where the birds are usually found

[tall shoal]

Not enough though 😭😭😭

[near rune]

Yeah there are often Avichaea there

[wild wind]

Hub world, bounty missions, probably a new syndicate

Which is probably going to upgrade the Vessel somehow?

[tall shoal]

Also cerebrum magna had to have been the brain because cerebrum is literally a piece of the brain, Deimos has a BLuE bRaiN

Man I just killed chat with blue brain-

[wild wind]

Oh dammit this means that the Vessels are the Attack Titan

[abstract trellis]

Omg the stalker

[prime lantern]

I feel as though that is an arbitrary distinction

[abstract trellis]

Dude what is his deal

[wild wind]

TA TA KAE

[tall shoal]

I need more Stalker lore, I love him so much, I need MOREEEE

[wild wind]

Probably he was a Tenno

[prime lantern]

We killed his people and it upset him

[wild wind]

But rather than go to sleep he stayed up and watched the Origin System go to hell and decided that it was all our fault

[prime lantern]

He believes the orokin cold iron fist was a better life than boiling chaos

[tall shoal]

And then he went to Lotus's daddy and got a sword 🙄 smh

[wild wind]

When a Tenno hates the Tenno veeeeery much...

[obtuse gyro]

also possible he was a dude who helminth'd himself

[tall shoal]

Get #minth'd

[obtuse gyro]

I stand by the fact that everytime its mentioned "you hate blah blah blah" the camera pans to your frame

[graceful zodiac]

More likely he's a dude permanently transferred

[abstract trellis]

Yeah my theory was he’s a dax that helminthed himself to get revenge on the Tenno and has since gone insane

[wild wind]

I kinda don't buy that, Hunhow's too specific about that

[obtuse gyro]

also possible, might explain why he go brrrr

[graceful zodiac]

Hunhow wouldn't know either way

[prime lantern]

Hunhow calls alad v an orokin I am not trusting him to label people correctly

[wild wind]

"do you think you were one of them? One of those children? Hahaha."

[graceful zodiac]

Hunhow wouldn't know other people could possibly control Warframes

[prime lantern]

I mean so far nobody has been able to

[wild wind]

Paraphrased because I'm not looking it up again, but he's definitely implying that Stalker has an Operator.

[tall shoal]

Or maybe he chooses to stay in his frame, maybe he's a Tenno somewhere and he chooses to stay within his frame because he's insane and he feels powerful

[obtuse gyro]

is that a direct quote?

[prime lantern]

It's just been the tenno

[wild wind]

No, paraphrased.

[obtuse gyro]

because the word was "wretched thing" no?

[wild wind]

But he's definitely calling out there being a kid somewhere.

Personally I want Stalker's operator to be a girl

[abstract trellis]

A hot girl

[wild wind]

Just for the shock factor of getting new Stalker fights where you beat him and his Operator Last Gasps you

[prime lantern]

If he didn't sleep he'd of succumb to the same fate as rell

[tall shoal]

I hope we get a full stalker story just about who and/or what stalker is, who they are as a whole and how they work, and meet the stalkers operator somewhere on Uranus or something

[prime lantern]

And if stalker did take the long sleep then lotus could just kick his bed till he wakes up

[graceful zodiac]

The only suggestion is from Hunhow saying he still us, he still hates himself.

[tall shoal]

Man I miss Rell, as sketch as that mission was it was good

[abstract trellis]

Best quest in the game imo

[wild wind]

God can we please get some story Tenno

[obtuse gyro]

my guess is that due to stalker himself being a thing in duviri, as well as all the camera panning, as well as hunhows track record of labelling things correctly, stalker at minimum is somehow who helminthed themselves, or someone who rell'd themselves into a frame

[abstract trellis]

Thoughts?

[tall shoal]

Got a new place cool decoration awesome lore and Harrow's BP? Massive w

[obtuse gyro]

iirc that is suggested to be in the pipeline

[wild wind]

But then they can dilute the Stalker's drop pool even further with a unique amp

[obtuse gyro]

depends if the "Low Guard" would have included the Dax, which is a possibility

[abstract trellis]

Wait stalker has to be a Tenno nvm because warframes draw their power from Tenno

[prime lantern]

🤝

[wild wind]

It's any low ranking guardsman. Could have been a Tenno or dax who didn't distinguish themself.

[prime lantern]

No they draw from the heart of deimos

[abstract trellis]

Wat

[prime lantern]

You are not the battery

[tall shoal]

Deimos 🔥💯🔥

[obtuse gyro]

not neally, warframes were already a thing before they were redesigned to incorporate the tenno

[abstract trellis]

Okay I need to replay some quests damn

[prime lantern]

The heart of deimos powers everything from solar rails to you

You the warframe not tenno

[abstract trellis]

But margulis said warframes were designed to hold the Tenno’s power

[prime lantern]

Warframes predate tenno

[tall shoal]

Because deimos is the most lore filled planet there is (minus the void or Zariman)

[obtuse gyro]

and as demonstrated by umbra, frames still have the ability to be autonomous somewhere, just not actively used

[abstract trellis]

Warframes can’t predate the tenno

[wild wind]

also Warframes apparently predate the Orokin era. Thanks 1999!

[prime lantern]

They do

[obtuse gyro]

he means predate tenno control

[abstract trellis]

Warframes were developed from transference therapy by margulis

[wild wind]

Correct

[prime lantern]

Kulleveros lore rhino prime codex

[wild wind]

Well wait no hang on

[abstract trellis]

So warframes came after the Tenno

[prime lantern]

No

[wild wind]

Transferrence tech was added later

[abstract trellis]

[tall shoal]

Bro I was reading prime codexes and got to rhinos and it was a jumpscare

[wild wind]

The original Warframes weren't meant to go crazy

[obtuse gyro]

the warframes we use today were designed for tenno use

[wild wind]

The people inside came out okay

[obtuse gyro]

there were a batch of warframes that didnt have us in mind

[wild wind]

And then over time they degraded into uncontrollable monsters

[prime lantern]

Warframe fail -> all of the pre tenno frames are killed cept Kullevero -> rhino prime codex- excalibur codex

[abstract trellis]

So what is margulis making with silvana in the silver grove quest

[wild wind]

A therapy system for the Tenno

[tall shoal]

Ayyyyy Kullervo, live laugh love Kullervo

[obtuse gyro]

that was just the transference project

[abstract trellis]

Okay I straight up don’t know this lore

[wild wind]

Where they'd jump into normal bodies that weren't wracked by void exposure

[obtuse gyro]

the warframes didnt start with the transference project

[abstract trellis]

But silvana was an infestation biologist specialist

[obtuse gyro]

they were upgraded with the transference project

[prime lantern]

Yes

[abstract trellis]

They made the warframes for the Tenno to use as transference therapy surrogate bodies

[wild wind]

No they didn't

[obtuse gyro]

incorrect

[graceful zodiac]

Those weren't Warframes

[obtuse gyro]

they made flesh golems for the transference project

[prime lantern]

I crawl up the wall to stand, opposite the door. I've never seen this cell, a cold place with an array of shelves. A morgue? "Where are we, Davis?"

"This is where they keep them. The ones from Zariman." I'm thrown, what was the Zariman? The ship that never returned? "Davis, what's going on?"

Davis turns to me, a smile forming - "What's going on is..." he turns back to the beast now silent and calm.

"...big, fat promotions."

[obtuse gyro]

ballas would later take the transference project and use it to enhance the already existing warframe project

[wild wind]

Especially because Ballas was the one who made the Warframes, not Margulis

That's presumably where the guy in the Rhino Prime Codex entry gets the idea to lead the Rhino to the Tenno

[abstract trellis]

But why does silvana say she was making warframes

[obtuse gyro]

because thats post timeskip

[abstract trellis]

Oof I forgot time skip

[obtuse gyro]

she was then incorporated into the warframe project as part of the transference project that was coopted

[tall shoal]

Didn't she make Titania? For her personal use for the forests on earth?? I forgot a lot of that missions lore

[wild wind]

Remember, decades to centuries between entries

[obtuse gyro]

she made (or help to make) titania, hated her, escaped to earth to try to transfer into a forest, becomes a tree

[wild wind]

Less made more heavily, heavily involved with

[abstract trellis]

Wait so there were warframes, then there was transference, then there were new warframes designed for transference?

[wild wind]

Yes

[abstract trellis]

[tall shoal]

Oh yeah that's right because she is the silver grove isn't she?

[abstract trellis]

Yeah she’s a tree

[tall shoal]

🌲

[obtuse gyro]

or rather, there was tranference and there was the warframe project, and then ballas combined the two

[abstract trellis]

Well you just said warframe’s predate transference

So it had to be warframes, transference, warframes for transference

[obtuse gyro]

more exactly, warframes predate the use of transference in the warframe project

[tall shoal]

I need to sleep I have Homecoming tomorrow, but it was nice speaking to you all ^^

[wild wind]

The timeline is basically:
Orokin
Albrecht discovers void travel
Zariman
Zariman reemerges
Margulis
Silvana
Margulis killed
Tenno put on ice
Sentients
Warframes
Warframe program fails
Transferrence used on Warframes
Warframe program goes into full swing

[abstract trellis]

Gn tenno

[wild wind]

Then a few decades later Silvana gets sick of everything and goes to become a tree and fix Earth's biosphere

[abstract trellis]

I think you could add when the sentient shipped out to that

But I think I’m on board

[graceful zodiac]

Tenno don't come back until Warframe prototypes are already made. And Silvana went straight to the Warframe project, no real time between

[wild wind]

It'd be right after Sentients leave so...

[obtuse gyro]

not really established when the zariman returns no?

[graceful zodiac]

Hell, Silvana is also pretty much explicitly during the Old War as a whole

[abstract trellis]

What

[obtuse gyro]

hmm

[wild wind]

It was actually, something like 2 to 4 years later iirc

[abstract trellis]

We just said the zariman predates the sentient

[obtuse gyro]

zariman incident predates the sentients yes

[abstract trellis]

So margulis and silvana predate the sentient

[graceful zodiac]

Kullervo crimes established he was around to see the Tenno come back and the beginning of Tenno frames

[wild wind]

Yeah. Everything with the Zariman and Margulis happens decades before the Sentients start the Old War.

[graceful zodiac]

Very much not

Margulis stuff is in the middle of the War

[wild wind]

We don't know exactly when the Sentient program started, just that it was after the Zariman failed and was recovered

[abstract trellis]

Okay but there’s legit no way silvana was alive from before the sentient ship out and all the way to them arriving in tau

And then coming back

[graceful zodiac]

She wasn't

[obtuse gyro]

I see what AtsiaZ is saying

[abstract trellis]

Okay but she was alive when margulis was

[wild wind]

Nah the trip to Tau only took a few decades at most

[obtuse gyro]

Zariman launch and Zariman return are very distant events

[wild wind]

Two years

[obtuse gyro]

this number is from where?

[graceful zodiac]

We don't know. A timeframe is never given anywhere

We only have a sort of timeframe for how long the Zariman was gone from Ember Prime Codex, and that had many holes in it

[wild wind]

I remember it from one of the scans

It wasn't a huge length of time

[graceful zodiac]

The only sort of time given is in the Ember Prime Codex

[obtuse gyro]

Zariman launch > Sentients Deployed > Old War started > Zariman return during the war > transference worked on during the war (Hence silvana's comment on transference not being a war project) > Marge killed/Warframe project running (roughly same era) > warframe + transference

[near rune]

Ember Codex says quite clearly that the Zariman was gone only "days", but then Lotus says in Second Dream that it was "years". So we have a disagreement. And then Seven Crimes of Kullervo says the Zariman came back mid-war, possibly decades or even centuries.

[wild wind]

I thought the Kullervo lore was about Warframes-with-Tenno becoming common, not the Zariman itself

[obtuse gyro]

thats the second tenno reference

the first was the entry before in "arrival of the tenno"

[near rune]

Warden says that Kullervo acted "upon the arrival of the wretched Tenno", which to me refers to the time when the Zariman returned from the Void. It's possible he meant when the Tenno were inducted into the Warframe Program, but I think that's a less likely interpretation.

[obtuse gyro]

the inclusion of the tenno into the project seems more referrenced in the next entry after that

[wild wind]

I think that makes more sense actually. The discrepancy between days and years always seemed to be a matter of realtime elapsed and time experienced

[near rune]

I agree

[wild wind]

Similar to FTL travel, heh.

[near rune]

But those references are both from external perspectives, so that doesn't make sense

[wild wind]

Iirc isn't the Lotus talking about the kids' experiences

[near rune]

Lotus: "It was years before the ship was recovered." that sounds like it's from the real-space perspective, not the kids', and Lotus is an external observer anyway

[wild wind]

also didn't the ship appear right next to Saturn

[near rune]

Besides, if we take the Seven Crimes lore, then Ember Codex is just wrong. Which kinda makes sense, it's a government report, so it's fabricated, like much of the info was around the Zariman.

[wild wind]

That makes the most sense from the kids experience

[near rune]

That part is still true; we see that in The New War. When the Zariman left, not necessarily when it returned.

[wild wind]

Yeah but it probably was.

Return to sender

[abstract trellis]

Why do warframes have powers independent of tenno

[graceful zodiac]

Because they were made to be independent

[abstract trellis]

I guess I mean “how”

Like how did the orokin give them powers

Because a lot of their powers seem kinda voidy

Aim gliding, double jumping, wall latching

Seems like some gravitational warping stuff right

Isn’t that voidy

[graceful zodiac]

No

[wild wind]

All Orokin technology is based on the void.

[abstract trellis]

So their powers aren’t void based

[wild wind]

All of it.

[graceful zodiac]

They're powered by the void but they aren't void energy

[abstract trellis]

Okay

[wild wind]

No they are. That's why Grandma flipping the Heart's off-switch nearly kills your Warframe

[abstract trellis]

Okay

I think I follow

[wild wind]

Basically the way to think about it is that the void manifests feelings and ideas, just not consciously

Every Warframe has a theme that they embody so strongly that they can manifest that idea

[graceful zodiac]

No, they're literally just designed that way. All of their powers are possible without Void anything

[wild wind]

Swords, fire, Sun Wukong, trains engineering, etc

[abstract trellis]

Okay yeah I think I got that but I was assuming the void energy was coming from the Tenno’s void energy

A la margulis saying warframes “hold their power”

[wild wind]

Yeah, it's separate.

[abstract trellis]

Okay interesting

[graceful zodiac]

Some use void energy to allow for certain physic breaking, but none of their powers are conceptual embodiment

[wild wind]

The Operator's void powers are (theoretically) much much stronger than the Warframe's

[graceful zodiac]

They don't have Void powers to begin with

[abstract trellis]

They have powers that are powered by the void?

[wild wind]

The Operator? Yes.

[abstract trellis]

Warframes

[wild wind]

Them too.

[graceful zodiac]

Void as a battery, but they're powers aren't Void based

[wild wind]

Their manifestations of power are powered by the Void

[abstract trellis]

Except xaku ig

[prime lantern]

There is no energy source short of black holes strong enough to fuel a warframe

[graceful zodiac]

They aren't manifestations, it's just tech

All frames are just tech

[wild wind]

Like, the Operators kinda work the same way, the Operator's "theme" is the void itself.

[prime lantern]

Most

[abstract trellis]

Well warframes are biological

[wild wind]

But that's a bad analogy since two different things are happening there

[graceful zodiac]

Most, to be accurate, yes

[abstract trellis]

But yeah tech in the sense of hardware

[graceful zodiac]

Warframe powers aren't any kind of Void phenomena love that

Most aren't

[wild wind]

Well... yes and no.

[abstract trellis]

Eternalism

[graceful zodiac]

No yes, just no

[wild wind]

A Warframe is built to embody that theme

[prime lantern]

No

[wild wind]

But it's not a biological thing

[prime lantern]

Eternalism does not cover magic just temporal shenanigans

[graceful zodiac]

That has nothing to do with how their powers work

[wild wind]

It's how they're shaped and made and armored

[abstract trellis]

Eternalism

[graceful zodiac]

They don't have powers because of their theme

[prime lantern]

Eternalism does not cover magic

[graceful zodiac]

They have powers because they are designed with that power

It has nothing to do with embodying a theme

[abstract trellis]

In eternalism there is another universe where eternalism does cover magic

[prime lantern]

No

[wild wind]

Not how that works, no

[prime lantern]

Because that is not how Eternalism works

[abstract trellis]

Guys I’m obviously joking

[prime lantern]

Eternalism is everything following the big bang

[wild wind]

Do you have any idea how many people are dead serious when they say that stuff

[prime lantern]

But the big bang is a nexus

[abstract trellis]

Ballas designed the warframe themes though right

[wild wind]

Yes

[abstract trellis]

So like they have to be built to have those specific powers

[wild wind]

With a handful of exceptions

A Warframe's theme can change

[abstract trellis]

Okay yeah I think I get it

[wild wind]

Like Valkyr, Revenant, Xaku etc

[abstract trellis]

Don’t bring up Valkyr man that lore is wack

[graceful zodiac]

No, they have any power Ballas wants them to

[wild wind]

Hell, Caliban

[abstract trellis]

Balls

[wild wind]

Valkyr makes sense until you bring Valkyr Prime into it

[graceful zodiac]

Valkyr work fine

[wild wind]

Since the original was "Gersemi"

[abstract trellis]

It doesn’t though because valkyr is supposed to be like traumatized and aren’t warframes brain dead

[graceful zodiac]

That wasn't her name, it's just the skin

[abstract trellis]

It was her name

The skin says that

[wild wind]

Non-sapient

[graceful zodiac]

No, is just the name of that particular look

[abstract trellis]

Yeah so how could valkyr be traumatized

[wild wind]

They basically went from being people to being animals

Animals can be traumatized

[abstract trellis]

But they aren’t sentient

Like valkyr isn’t like umbra

[wild wind]

No, they are

[abstract trellis]

She’s a brainless body

[wild wind]

Second Dream

[graceful zodiac]

All frames are sentient, Umbra is just sapient

[abstract trellis]

Only umbra and the original warframes were sentient

[wild wind]

You're about to be neck snapped by Stalker and your Warframe reaches down and snaps War in half

No, ALL Warframes are sapient

[abstract trellis]

Because our Tenno makes it do that

[wild wind]

No, they don't

[abstract trellis]

It reaches out and controls it

[wild wind]

That's the amazing part.

[abstract trellis]

And until then it’s sitting there lifeless

[wild wind]

Not during that scene.

[prime lantern]

That's in the duviri paradox

[graceful zodiac]

Possibly, it's unknown

[wild wind]

The Warframe autonomously shatters War

[abstract trellis]

I’m rewatching the cinematic

[prime lantern]

In tsd you are grabbing stalker

[wild wind]

That was the ultimate twist. We're told that the Warframes are just empty shells

And then at the very end the Warframe proves that it's more than that

It's also obliquely referenced during The New War if you pick the Drifter for part 3

When they transference into your Warframe for the first time the Warframe bucks, just a bit.

[abstract trellis]

Omg

You’re right

Holy smokes

That explains why hunhow says “what is this”

[wild wind]

Yep.

[abstract trellis]

I thought he was just being dramatic

[wild wind]

that's also how we know that Stalker isn't a Warframe~

[prime lantern]

|:

[abstract trellis]

Wait what

[wild wind]

If Stalker was a Warframe then Hunhow wouldn't be shocked that yours is alive and moving independently

[abstract trellis]

Oh yeah he would’ve known

[wild wind]

QED

[abstract trellis]

So he has to be a Tenno that didn’t know about that

Just like we didn’t until it happened

[wild wind]

Yep

[prime lantern]

Or he just thinks stalker has a tenno

[abstract trellis]

Okay I feel like I caught this when I first did that quest but forgot it in all the details since

[wild wind]

That's Margulis's second dream at work

[prime lantern]

I mean there's a whole lot of holes in every Theory

[abstract trellis]

Well I think captain is saying that the stalker would’ve seen that coming

[wild wind]

The kids are asleep and can escape being themselves

[graceful zodiac]

Yeah no, all that means is that he think Stalker is a Tenno, which tracks with everything he would know

[prime lantern]

If stalker is a tenno lotus would just wake him up

If he's not asleep then he's been relled

Wonder what vorunas operators fate was

[obtuse gyro]

Which doesn't track with stalker's appearance as controllable in Duviri as well as all the sneaky camera panning to warframes every time it talks about what stalker his

The key difference between stalker and a normal frame, at least from the perspective that stalker helminthed himself would be the lack of a transference bolt. The bolt doesnt only allow for transference, likely its to facilitate it, as well as shutdown autonomous control

Hence stalker is able to move independently

And yet still able to be controlled in duviri

[prime lantern]

I mean duviri stalker is most likely the result of conceptual embodiment

[obtuse gyro]

Not entirely, he's there for the same reasons as our frames, which is "help from the other side" which may be op conceptual embodying some gear over

That being said, stalker showing up as a frame like such would indicate what we think stalker is

[vivid holly]

a corrupted version of excal?

[wild wind]

I mean all the Warframes have Operators. It's possible that the Warframe we know as Stalker is still being controlled by an Operator in the Origin System.

[obtuse gyro]

No

[vivid holly]

stalker does look like a corrupted version of excal tho ngl

[obtuse gyro]

Which then begs the question: if stalker was part of the tenno, why was he not involved in the night of naga drums and why was he classed as a low guard for the event instead of being "honoured" like the rest of the tenno

[wild wind]

iirc originally Stalker was very much a black-colored Excalibur with minor differences, later modifications changed his build and helmet

[vivid holly]

in this sense than why would he be holding a tennos head during second dream (Loki)

[obtuse gyro]

If he disagreed with the plan, he shouldn't have waited till it was actually happening to move against it

[wild wind]

I don't actually believe the Tenno were a monolith

[obtuse gyro]

Until the second dream the fact that operators existed was a well kept secret, so secret even we didnt know

[vivid holly]

he is going against his own kind in this sense, so its either that the operator controlling stalker is another faction or hes just corrupt

[wild wind]

The second dream in universe refers to how the Tenno were made to forget that they exist

Which had the effect of making them believe that they were their Warframes

[obtuse gyro]

Even so, if stalker was a tenno controlling a frame, the distinction between him and the tenno in his own codex makes it extremely hard to believe he was some splinter faction

And not an external entity from the tenno

[vivid holly]

i feel like stalker and umbra have some refrence, cause stalker has no voice, and it seems to be he is one of his own, like umbra being teshin

[wild wind]

A fair point, but who's to say that all Tenno self-identify as such?

[obtuse gyro]

Mind you even if you want to play the faction card, killing the orokin was the tenno plan, so his exclusion is not explained by "different faction"

[obtuse gyro]

What? Umbra is not teshin

[prime lantern]

Also would've tsd him or are we just gonna say he got relled

[vivid holly]

teshin is umbra, no?

[prime lantern]

No

[wild wind]

haha no

[obtuse gyro]

Very much no????

[prime lantern]

All Teshin is a dax not all dax is a teshin

Umbra may have known teshin

[vivid holly]

in the sacrafice we see teshin being on the bed, and than being turned into something else

or was that not teshin on the bed

[wild wind]

No, that was a different dax soldier

[prime lantern]

No you see a dax soldier

[wild wind]

Not Teshin, but another member of the same group of warriors

[prime lantern]

One with no name

[vivid holly]

oh so your just telling me that im racist and see all dax the same

[prime lantern]

Yes

[wild wind]

Dax was a caste or title. So "Teshin Dax".

[prime lantern]

Or varzia dax

[wild wind]

You said it not me.

[vivid holly]

thats another way to look at it

[prime lantern]

Teshin = dax
Dax =/= teshin

[vivid holly]

you in specific calling me racist is something else, if it was @prime lantern or myself calling me racist i would be fine with it

[vivid holly]

yes

we love dax racisim

anytime i come in here i kill chat

[prime lantern]

Shocker

[obtuse gyro]

Gee I wonder why

[vivid holly]

stfu

[vivid holly]

i shock you now

[vivid holly]

yo jus cuz ur mad dont mean nothin

[cyan crest]

what

well anyway

so why does Albrecht not look at all like Albrecht? Isn't that like kind of really weird?

Like he's not like his portrait, at all

He could've continuity-ied into his 1999 body but I feel like that's literally opposite of what he stated his intentions to be

[cyan crest]

I'm just gonna say that Ballas doesn't say her name in the prime trailer
It's the only trailer where he does that

[nova harness]

He had a haircut and is blending in

[cyan crest]

He's not blue
And like
He should be blue

Who gave this man the focus skin changer thing?

[nova harness]

Albrecht never wanted to be blue

[cyan crest]

I get that but he is blue in the portrait

[nova harness]

He’s grey

Not blue

[cyan crest]

It's blueish

[nova harness]

It could also just be what the Orokin wanted him to look like skin wise

[cyan crest]

Definitely a bit blue

I mean they don't even look a bit similar

[nova harness]

It could also just be a body he has as a swap

[cyan crest]

Yeah but he very explicitly didn't want to swap bodies

[nova harness]

Or the portrait could be Warframes version of an Instagram photo

[cyan crest]

In any case I only said it because it's weird they designed the same character twice basically
Wonder if they'll address it

[nova harness]

They could’ve just made a weird retcon and will eventually explain it yeah

[graceful zodiac]

Not really. His clothes are blue, but he's definitely more gray. It's more clearer next to the portrait of Ballas

[cyan crest]

The exact skintone doesn't really matter the point was that the change was weird

[graceful zodiac]

There wasn't really a change though. His skin tone still fairly matches the art. The only real discrepancy would be the face, but that's really just him slimming up some

[obtuse gyro]

Hell the portrait might as well have been propagandised, to make him look less human

[obtuse gyro]

eh, its a weaker point for me, the Gersemi skin is still labelled as a Valkyr skin, if they really wanted to lean hard into Gersemi being Valkyr's true name they would not have said "Before Alad V, before the experiments, there was Gersemi Valkyr" they would have just dropped the word Valkyr

and even more so: Valkyr Prime's existence disproves that idea hard

[cyan crest]

I guess
But them excluding the name in Valkyr's trailer and only in her trailer is weird

And prime has elements of both base skin Valkyr and Gersemi
Weirdest point is that they primed her chain thingies in her arms

[trail grail]

Snapchat filter xd

His whole family is blue tho

Or the bottom one could be simply little Bengel himself aka entrati OG body

Being used by wally

[obtuse gyro]

My guess is that the gersemi versions of that thing is the two bladed elbow bits, and that for the base alad ripped off the original and replaced it during an experiment

[trail grail]

Entrati has definitely taken kuva before

[obtuse gyro]

I dont think this is a case of possession

its often startlingly clear to the player whenever Wally has possessed someone

[trail grail]

More of dopplegangering his original form

[obtuse gyro]

Well then, do you think this dopple was the one from the original experiment or a new dopple out of nowhere?

[trail grail]

The experiment where entrati goes into the void?

[obtuse gyro]

then your theory that this is a wally clone has a giant massive finger sized hole in it

the idea that the wally clone escaped instead of albrecht is hilariously demonstrably wrong

[trail grail]

Funny thing is it looks like wally always escapes with the person in question

It doesn't seem like a matter of escaping too

More like being utilised as a tool

[obtuse gyro]

huh?

[trail grail]

Hasn't it ever occurred to u that u are also linked to wally

Or being used as a tool by wally?

[obtuse gyro]

what is your point here? Because only one of the two albrechts escaped, and it isnt the clone who did

[obtuse gyro]

being used absolutely, but I am no wally clone

[trail grail]

But there's 2 of u

One in duviri..and one in the origin system

[obtuse gyro]

neither drifter nor operator are a wally clone

[trail grail]

How do you know that?

[obtuse gyro]

the circumstances of the creation of the drifter/operator split, while confusing to some, are clearly stated

additionally, none of the markers of a wally clone are shown with drifter nor operator

namely, lack of constant galaxy eyes

[trail grail]

We've seen galaxy eyed operator so many times..and a red glow lotus as well

[obtuse gyro]

additionally we are visited by our wally clone

[trail grail]

And we've seen galaxy eyed operator with the red glow lotus in the same cutscene

[obtuse gyro]

weak point, one was after we partook of kuva, that is a galaxy eye moment, something that doesnt happen if you choose the other two options

[obtuse gyro]

huh?

are you talking about the end of TNW?

[trail grail]

No..have u seen the scene where Erra gets bodied?

Before the new war.

[obtuse gyro]

brother

that is another weak point with terrible implications

not only are you claiming that all the operators in question are wally clones

youre claiming that lotus is under wally control

[trail grail]

I'm not claiming wally makes clones

I'm claiming wally controls people and projects himself when he wants to

[obtuse gyro]

whilst still disregarding that we've been visited by the very thing that you claim we are

[obtuse gyro]

which is completely different from the point of this conversation: the wally clone

[trail grail]

I don't think there's a separate "clone"..the thing u are visited by could simply be a projection of wally who is using u as a tool

And at this point is pretty obvious that lotus knows about wally

And has a deal of some sorts

[obtuse gyro]

no that is not obvious

[trail grail]

It is cause she herself said it

In her natah form

Also she traveled the void

[obtuse gyro]

something that is again arguably false given that we've had 4 different people encounter the clone

[trail grail]

And she said she's seen the other side of the wall and heard the voice

[obtuse gyro]

albrecht, yonta, ourselves and baro

all 4 have encountered clones

[trail grail]

Who look like what?

[obtuse gyro]

sorry make that 5 groups

the poor sods in duviri

they all watched as an island filled with their clones

[trail grail]

The clones look like themselves right?

Everyone who encounters wally sees themselves

[obtuse gyro]

thats what the word clone says

[trail grail]

Clone doesn't mean same person..clones can be different

This is more like encountering wally himself

And wally projecting himself as you

[obtuse gyro]

Oh please dont try to say that theyre all psychic projections because that is also demonstrably false

the very thing that powers the railjack and zariman's drives isnt a psychic projection

[trail grail]

All we have to do is wait and see cause we don't control the next parts of the story 😂

Cause the fact that we have to debate this means that the story is unclear and vague

[obtuse gyro]

I mean you tried to claim that the clones are psychic projections despite there being physical evidence of their existence

and while youre not wrong that it is possible for wally's hostile mental takeover, in albrecht its currently lacking the telltale sign of galaxy eyes. Albrecht's use of voidtongue in 1999 seems more of a redherring to make people think he's wally

[trail grail]

I'm more of trying to understand by debating

Trying to make sense of everything that's put there lol

[obtuse gyro]

fair, but I'm just saying that wally has multiple methods of screwing with people, in the case of albrecht and the clone, albrecht escaped and got free fingers as a prize, and in the case of albrecht and being possessed, he's missing the eyes

[trail grail]

Didn't he get the eyes in the trailer we see that pic in or am I mistaken?

[obtuse gyro]

not galaxy eyes no, he had shockingly normal eyes

so not the same as per his portrait, but also not the galaxy eyes we associate with wally

[trail grail]

Wonder whats it gonna imply then

Given that he seems not normal regardless xd

[jagged lake]

woah, accidentally clicked on sortie then clicked away and this happened

also apparently theres a typo

"keeping talking"

[scarlet basalt]

Whispers of the wall is actually MITW's concert

Like if you think about it, dude just singing while you fight abomination from the void

[frail laurel]

I just noticed that cool detail, we can interact with kahl stuff behind him and there is dialogue

I love kahl mission but i only counted 3 different sort and we always play the same weapons

cant kahl have a little dog pet or something like that ?

[supple dagger]

We are the real villains after all

[nova harness]

I wish they allowed both Drifter and Operator to talk

[short badger]

It would be fun if there were moments where they could banter back and forth during missions - like they can reach across whatever connection they have and both bad mouth a boss

[abstract trellis]

Operator talks during missions iirc

Oh you mean talk to each other lol

[solar monolith]

Finally did Second Dream

My god. We're bloody kids?

[rain otter]

Oh honey you're just getting started.

[wild wind]

I love, love people's reactions to the Second Dream

[woeful jacinth]

We're teenagers

[solar monolith]

So, we're legal? Just asking cause some of the Warframes are very...lewd

''cough" Mesa Prime "cough"

[rain otter]

That's not good wordage.

But like I said play more story quests. Like war within and the sacrifice.

Go Fly my child.

[solar monolith]

Wordage? Sorry english ain't my first language

[rain otter]

Oh "wording"

I guess Is better. Or phrasing.

[solar monolith]

Ok. But yeah. Just making sure if we're at least 18.

[rain otter]

ehhhhh not mentally. at least not the operator it seems.

probably.

[tall shoal]

there's more

[short badger]

The lore seems to imply that the operator is a teenager, but it's never stated outright what age the operator is, so if you want to have a personal headcanon that your operator is 18 or older, that's up to you! I personally headcanon my operator is actually an adult but void shenanigans and other contributing factors make him look younger than he is.

[rain otter]

Also this person.

Just finished the second dream.

So let's let them experience the rest of the story.

[tall shoal]

That mission was too good, if you thought that was good just wait for missions like The Sacrifice or TWW, TNW is definitely the most lore filled

[rain otter]

Nodders.

[tall shoal]

In general they're all unreasonably amazing, I can't wait for whispers in the walls either

[short badger]

Of course I was simply encouraging them that the headcanons they may have already established do not necessarily have to be dropped c:

[rain otter]

Wait I wonder if they have played Duviri. @solar monolith HAVE YOU PLAYED DUVIRI?

[rain otter]

Heheheh fair.

[solar monolith]

Yes. But confused

[rain otter]

Yeah.

[tall shoal]

you get to learn about that one

[solar monolith]

Specifically, Duviri Paradox. That inly

[rain otter]

Yeah the paradox part is werid.

[solar monolith]

I just wanted to get Sun and Moon

[tall shoal]

Real

[rain otter]

You get it from the quest.

They are cool.

[tall shoal]

I run sun and moon on Umbra and 10/10

[solar monolith]

They are the the only Dual Nikans in game right now?

[tall shoal]

Uhhh I think so actually

[rain otter]

Yep.

[solar monolith]

Huh. That explains how I felt unique

[tall shoal]

I still need Cinta to complete the Duviri collection, but I don't wanna do Enigma Puzzles

[solar monolith]

My only complaint about their design is that the smaller blade should have a different colour, but otherwise the swords are cool

[tall shoal]

Also your pfp looks really familiar where's it from-? 😭

[tall shoal]

I didn't realize this until I got them but if you have a status mod (I run cold status) it'll change the smaller blades color

Including the handle which might be a visual glitch but it looks cool so idm

[solar monolith]

Algerie from Azur Lane

[tall shoal]

Ah okay, ty :D.

[solar monolith]

I was hoping that Warframe had a similar mace like hers

[tall shoal]

I looked up the mace and there are a few that are kind of similar in a way but not completely the same, Sampotes from Duviri, Fragor (you get the BP from one of the Junctions) and there might be more but I can't check rn-

[thick jolt]

looks like a large magistar

[tall shoal]

Oh yeah Magistar looks like it in a way

[solar monolith]

Fyi, it has four flangs

[tall shoal]

So defo more Magistar

Also I didn't know that's what those were called lmao-

[solar monolith]

Flanges. If you want to look specifically, flanged mace

There's also this one

[tall shoal]

That's the one I saw which kinda reminded me of Fragor, here's Magistar (the one in the pic is a skin)

[solar monolith]

🤔🤔🤔

If only you can design your own weapon

[tall shoal]

Zaws.

(you can find them from a vendor in Fortuna and Cetus, or I think from father on Deimos)

Or does he make a gun-

[solar monolith]

Nah. Already check. No components match the mace

[tall shoal]

Dang mb then, uhmmmm ig you could wait and see if they make sm similar, but no guarantee

[sage harness]

@hollow sluice

[obtuse gyro]

Perhaps the sibear is more to your liking

[tall shoal]

Another weapon I forgot existed

[obtuse gyro]

Thats not a skin thats a whole weapon variant

[tall shoal]

Ik I looked back at it just now and remembered new loka 😭

[solar monolith]

The water tank on a stick? Lol no

[tall shoal]

HELP

I'ma start calling it that

[near rune]

I've been doing a lot of Captura in the Zariman lately and I'm thinking some of these Dormizones are downright comfy.

[short badger]

Also looks kinda like Volnus/Volnus Prime, but not exact obviously

[abstract trellis]

Haunted, but comfy

[lilac sorrel]

he makes kitguns

[supple dagger]

But it’s a COLD water tank on a stick

So you can make viral in one mod

Or magnetic or blast

[solar monolith]

What's a viral?

[supple dagger]

True I only use gas

Gas is superior to every element except raw cold

[solar monolith]

I really need to wiki the meaning of these ailments

[serene cave]

They should remove max cap on gas, and, of course, they would cap its cloud size too, unless they didn't. it'd be funny having a boss with 1000 gas status effects and he's just killing everything around himself.

[solar monolith]

Ordis wtf?!

I thought we were bros? Why did you dump in the middle of Antartica?

[wild wind]

A mystery wrapped in an enigma contained in a ridde.

Also the Orokin were chodes.

[solar monolith]

War Within is crazy

[wild wind]

Great quest.

Once you're done, go check out Cetus for a bit...

[nova harness]

You should ask Teshin who invited him

[solar monolith]

Oh god. This robot Tremors worm is the worst

[twilit geode]

“…Why does it have to be ravenous…?”

[near rune]

Have you gone fishing in Duviri? Something might look familiar…

[solar monolith]

Ok im there. Where to go exactly?

[wild wind]

face konzu and walk behind him

then find a door that won't open for your Warframe

[solar monolith]

Door?

Found it, nvm

Onkko?! You're alive?

[wild wind]

ain't that a kick in the head

[solar monolith]

Bro. Saya..you're husband is literally a few feet behind you

[obtuse gyro]

Ask onkko why he hasnt returned to saya

[solar monolith]

I'm kinda confused on that part. Can you explain it to me? My mind is just too blown at this point

[obtuse gyro]

Onkko thanks to Unum can see timelines, the timeline where he is not part of her life is sadly the best one for her, and so he keeps away

[solar monolith]

Goddamit. This is just bloody sad

[solar monolith]

So, we can talk through our Warframe all this time?

And I thought we were the typical silent protagonist. Like Claude from GTA 3

[obtuse gyro]

you were only asleep

[solar monolith]

What exactly is Unum? The Ostron's patrod god or something?

[prime lantern]

Not a whole ton is known but the unum tower is a being with the ability to see all of time all at once

[obtuse gyro]

a uh special orokin tower of which we dont understand its true nature

[prime lantern]

Past present future and all the possibilities that stem from those

[solar monolith]

Those tall white towers around the map?

[prime lantern]

The ones with the energy barrier?

[solar monolith]

Yeh

Or is that a different thing all together?

[prime lantern]

Those are just shield pylons powered by the unums will

[solar monolith]

And the Quills. Who exactly are they? Never seen them asides from Onkko, who I assume became one after fakingvhis death

[obtuse gyro]

Operatives for the Unum

[solar monolith]

So, basically Charlie's Unum's Angels

[obtuse gyro]

sorta? we dont get much news about them

[solar monolith]

One more thing. With some of the Syndicates hate each other, like how I do jobs for the Red Veil, the Hexis and Suda hate the veil.

Why haven't they kill each other when they are literally next door to each other?

[obtuse gyro]

Well, do countries that have beef with each other kill each other on UN's floor?

[solar monolith]

Hmmmm. Touché

So, the only thing stopping them from killing each other is the Tenno faction.

Btw, if the Tenno themselves are kids piloting the Warframes. What about the grunts we save from hostage missions?

[obtuse gyro]

just operatives, not void devil children like us, but people working for the tenno cause

[solar monolith]

Ahh, so volunteers.

[solar monolith]

So, does this mean I can kill Eidolons now?

[obtuse gyro]

well, yes

[solar monolith]

How exactly? Cause those floating heads just turn...uh..ghost...Whenever they get to low hp?

Or am I just dumb?

[obtuse gyro]

oh man, for this I recommend looking it up on youtube, its gets... complicated

[solar monolith]

Oh god no

[obtuse gyro]

in essence:
1 find lure, shoot lure, hack lure
2 bring lure to eidolon
3 charge lure by shooting the "heads" and they'll get sucked up by the lure
4 lure will change from yellow icon to blue to indicate charge
5 use operator to remove eidolon shields
6 use whatever you have to shoot eidolon weakpoints (synova)
7 protect yourself as eidolon releases high damage magnetic waves after breaking one weakpoint
8 lure will keep eidolon in locale
9 repeat steps 5 to 8 till eidolon dies/gets captured

10 number of lures must increase the greater the eidolon

[solar monolith]

God. And I thougjt fighting them is ahrd enough

[abstract trellis]

This is so helpful

I’m saving that

[obtuse gyro]

please go watch a guide on youtube for this, this is like, barebones the minimum

its an incredible understatement

[abstract trellis]

Ugh

Dang it

[near rune]

The Amp that Onkko gave you will let you kill the ghosts

[tropic ridge]

Anyway continuing from #gameplay-discussion still wish we could change the identity we pick after New War

Wanna change from Natah to Lotus but I can't beyond her fashion

Which uh, also wish Lotus had 6 fashion slots or so. Kinda hard to find fashion for her that isn't just mimicking that one Lotus Prime fan art piece

[nova harness]

You did read what they said before making the decision didn’t you?

[tropic ridge]

Eh, at the time I was thinking it was morally good and thinking that it was the 'True version' of Lotus
Still doesn't change my opinion that I'd like the option to change later.

And never will

[nova harness]

Quests have never had reversible changes tho so I think it’s a bit late

Just that one was the big change compared to a few tiny word changes

[scarlet basalt]

If you think about it
MITW is actually the best DJ currently
Like dude just popping out an ost with his own vocal 😭

[hearty fiber]

So i finished new war after like 12 hours of trial and error

Man what a rollercoaster

[whole rose]

today i learned you can get the stalker in duviri

[twilit geode]

He’s alright for a gimmick. But you’re generally better off picking from your own frames, as he can’t be modded, and all but one of his abilities are regular Warframe abilities

[odd crane]

he is an ok pick if the other rolls are not good...

[serene cave]

Stalker can do some funny things if you get those finisher decrees.

[tall shoal]

Stalker is a little silly

His abilities are low-key strong, I defo like using him, plus iNViSIBlE

[next zealot]

Just figured out why Sevagoth's weapon is called Epitaph

[visual prism]

Kinda sad

[woeful jacinth]

You launch tombstones at people

[solar monolith]

Does our real body need food or any form of sustenance to keep on living?

Cause sitting on a chair almost 24/7 sounds tiresome

Also, how old exactly are we, or at least an estimation of our actual age (physicalage aside)? Void shenanigans included

[wild wind]

The Tenno's in cryosleep for most of their existence.

Their physical age is no more than 18.

Their experienced age is probably 50s to the 100s depending on how long they were active in the Old War

Their actual age is potentially 2000+ years depending on how long the Zariman was lost and how long the interstitium between the Old War and Awakening was.

[next zealot]

Generations old at minimum

[nova harness]

Generations old maybe but the long sleep stopped the normal human processes

How old would you say Drifter is?

[wild wind]

There's genuinely no way to tell their experienced age because linear time is even more of an illusion than usual in the void

But physically, early 30s

[nova harness]

Do you think they were in Duviri for a long time?

[wild wind]

Absolutely.

[nova harness]

So could that have slowed the aging process?

[wild wind]

I think that their appearance is the result of perception

Perception and "feelings" shape the void which reshapes existence.

The Drifter imagined themself inside of Duviri as the Drifter character

Who was presumably a lone ranger/knight errant type through the lens of the Orokin

[nova harness]

But wasn’t they an adult on the Zariman before they became a books main character?

[wild wind]

Not as far as we're aware.

What probably happened is that when the Operator shook Wally's hand, the future Drifter didn't, and the crazy ex-humans tore down the barriers on the classroom door

The mob would have hit the kids up front first, and the Drifter was in back

Giving them a chance to run as the mob was... distracted

After that it's cat and mouse, until the Drifter is the only one left and the void shielding finally shatters

[rain otter]

Varizia says 1k years.

But many not.

[nova harness]

"You could live a thousand years and never wake to a face like hers. I slept a thousand and look what I got. What do you think? A career con like her and an old Dax like me?"

That’s not saying we are 1000 years old necessarily

[solar monolith]

And what about sustenance? Or cause of the Void, we no longer need food and water?

[wild wind]

During cold sleep it's not necessary

Onboard the orbiter, it's a mix of "handled by the Transferrence chair" and off-screen.

[prime lantern]

Handled by the helminth

All the biological needs of the warframe and tenno are taken care of by the helminth

[wild wind]

There's an old lore post that the reason that items cost credits in the foundry is that it's the way that Ordis is getting money for basic supplies like fuel etc., because the Tenno isn't interested in anything beyond carrying out missions and killing Grineer/Corpus/infested

These days that probably includes covering food needs

[prime lantern]

I believe it's cephalon cordy and his answer didn't explain much he just told us to ask ordis

[near rune]

"Tenno, if left unattended, might spend the majority of their earned resources constructing new weaponry instead of managing "less essential" tasks, such as LIFE SUPPORT. While I cannot speak for Cephalon Ordis, it is conceivable that Ordis allocates acquired credits to managing other trivial areas unrelated to slaughter, such as Liset fuel cells, breathable atmosphere, etc.
I can assure you with absolute certainty that Ordis doesn't not contribute a portion of those funds into a probability pool weighed against your odds of survival."
—Cephalon Cordylon

[wild wind]

That's the one

[jagged lake]

uhhhhhh W H A T

[short badger]

yeP
Pretty spooky - there are some other question you can find that are also strange like this

[wicked iron]

Rap. Tap. Tap.

[thick jolt]

I choose to believe its actually spent in the bet against our survival

[swift granite]

Guys, quick question.

Idk if this is the right chat for that. I consider this to be of a spoiler matter, but well, it can also not be the case.

It's about the New War quest. I made a Railjack and am building a Voidrig, also did a Amp.

What I wanted to ask is: Is there something else that is important to do before starting it or something you guys'd reccomend?

[balmy badger]

You'll want to make sure your Railjack isn't using the default parts, or it could be difficult if you aren't good enough.

Even just the Tier 3 Sigma parts and turrets you can research should be good enough.

I'd recommend maxing your Voidrig before going in, especially if you don't have any Necramech mods for survivability.

In terms of your Warframe loadout, just bring your favorite gear, enemies are only level 20.

[swift granite]

Don't think I have these mods.

So:

Level up Railjack
Level up Voidrig

Will I need to do anything amp related? Made a sniper/granade piercing one

[balmy badger]

As long as it's not Mote Amp, you'll be fine.

[swift granite]

Ok, ty

Wait, only lvl 20?

[balmy badger]

It's a story-focused quest you can't back out of until you finish it, they couldn't make the enemies too hard or people would get stuck if they brought insufficient gear.

Which, can still easily happen with your Railjack, especially if you aren't super familiar with that gameplay style yet before going in, which is why I recommended getting better parts and mods for it.

[swift granite]

Ohh

Now I get it, makes sense

Btw, is it true that this is a game changing quest?

[graceful zodiac]

Mildly

[swift granite]

Ok, sounds fair

Thank you for the tips, will do that. Curious to see how the story will progress

Good night and a good farm

[next zealot]

Just make sure your stuff is decently modded, so that it can withstand 20-30 lvl enemies

[rain otter]

It unlocks cool stuff after.

[prime lantern]

I believe Cordy tells us he's got a 87% truth telling rate so I'm gonna agree with you

[plush frigate]

Uh question, why does sometimes, some orokin red and white writing shows up on your screen?

With some beep boop noises

[flat shadow]

That was put in before an old release way back when. Just story fluff now.

[plush frigate]

Has someone translated it?

[flat shadow]

Yeah, it's online somewhere. Wiki probably has it.

[plush frigate]

Found it, second dream tease, thanks

[nova harness]

Void Link Severed

Reason: foreign carrier detected. Origin: unknown. Suspection: tracking signal.
Reinitiating dipolar connection on novel carrier.
Bio in standby for check and sync.
Motion compensation complete.
Selenic lensing locked.
Somatic control established.
(Margulis) implantation intact.
EVM status nominal.
War platform awaiting sync.

[tall shoal]

I used mote 💀 I didn't have an amp but now I have Sirocco

They also need to add a way for drifter to use melee because rumble jack is literally their weapon and we can't use it

[short badger]

Sneak kills use rumble jack

[tall shoal]

They do? Sweet, THEN WHY CANT WE USE RUMBLE JACK OTHERWISE 👹 (this is mainly a /j)

[warm turret]

but why

[high cosmos]

HA

[rain otter]

I hope this never changes.

Cuz its hilarious.

[nova harness]

For motivation so you get to work on ending it’s extended life

[rugged marsh]

@rain otter why is stuff getting stolen?

[obtuse gyro]

Lich go brrrrrrr

[rugged marsh]

Ahh..

So later in the game.

[near rune]

Yes, mid- to late-game you can encounter a powerful enemy who steals you mission rewards until you kill them.

[rugged marsh]

Dang, that sounds like it would make alot of players rage.

[prime lantern]

Not really you kill the guy and get it back

[rugged marsh]

Huh.

[prime lantern]

Takes like an hour and 30 minutes

[near rune]

Honestly it really has the potential to, especially since you can encounter them before you're ready. It only requires completion of The War Within. So word of advice: if you see a Grineer enemy named "Kuva Larvling", don't kill them (and then Parazon finisher them) until you're ready to go through the long process, because that will generate a Kuva Lich.

[near rune]

If you're ready and geared for it, which many players are not when they get their first lich.

[prime lantern]

True

[rugged marsh]

Wow, ok do I can get it, I've just been lucky.

[near rune]

You have to trigger a Kuva Larvling to spawn, then kill it, then finisher-kill it, so it doesn't happen automatically. But it can happen by accident if you're not careful.
I actually think the Kuva Lich system is really cool and fun, I'm not hating on it. But you definitely want to be prepared before you get into it.

[rugged marsh]

TY

[near rune]

There are lots of guides out there if you eventually want to get into it, walking you through the process

[woven bramble]

And besides Kuva Liches there are and Sitsers of Parvos that spawn after you finish call of tempestarii and to summon a sister candidate you must do at least enough kills for the first tier of rewards of Nightmare mode Granum Void accessed with Zenith Granum Crowns ;kuva weapons are dropped by Kuva liches and Tenet weapons are dropped by Sisters of Parvos;Both type of enemies share the Progenitor System that give the weapons from lich/sister a innate elemental damage depending the warframe you used to spawn the lich/sister,also they also share the 8 requiem mods system used in a certain order to be able to kill them.
While Liches steal your rewarded resources and credits from the nodes of the planet they control;the Sisters would only steal your credits rewarded from the nodes of the planet they control.
Everytime you don't get the requiem mod in the right order your lich/sister would flee to another planet controlled by their faction and would get their stats increased,the highest rank they can reach is rank 5 and the last planets they would control for Liches is Kuva Fortress and for Sisters is Pluto.
After you get the right order of the requiem mods on your parazon the liches would flee to Saturn proxima and the sisters would flee to Neptune Proxima

[nova harness]

Is it just me or when they added extra steps to Kuva lich killing they also made it a bit harder for the actual larvling to spawn?

[obtuse gyro]

just you methinks, they always consistently spawn if you do cassini

[nova harness]

I did Cassini and it didn’t spawn them around the change but before that I got one first try

[real niche]

You're tripping

[jade canopy]

QUESTION:=> On October 18th... Does that mean that with teh new changes, The PS4 will no longer being supported!?!!

[obtuse gyro]

why would that mean the PS4 is no longer supported??

[nova harness]

Think they mean will PS4 handle it

[woeful jacinth]

I don't see why it wouldn't

[jade canopy]

Because they are removing some of the Grafix from Warframe... The Classic version will no longer exist... I don't know if the PS4 can handle the new Tech... I was hoping a Dev could answer this question? I wrote a ticket just in case they do not answer.

[wild wind]

m8. If they're not dropping the Switch version there's no way they're dropping PS4.

[obtuse gyro]

They've already made the enhanced engine the default for the PS4 at the start of the year, theyre not dropping ps4

[jade canopy]

I would like a confirmation on this from the Dev still....

[wild wind]

They will probably sunset the PS4 version, but only when there are no more PS4 games being made.

So about four years from now.

[jade canopy]

Playstation is no longer makin any games for PS4 starting next year I believe.... They are doing away with PS4 in 2025 If I was told correctly.

[wild wind]

I believe that's correct. However, third parties, especially in Japan, continue to make Playstation 4 games due to market conditions in that market. The PS4 will continue to be a living platform for several more years.

[fleet veldt]

Something I miss from older games is their small file-size due to clever optimisation all-round. DE with Warframe is, to me, a great example of where it persists in some shape/way/form.

Speaking of shapes, could Sentients be 'bred' from Forma if the Forma was appropriately modified?

[prime lantern]

No

[fleet veldt]

Unfortunate. More experimentation may be required.

[late stirrup]

i'll bet that the switch version will get sunsetted some time soon as well
the processing power on a switch is nothing compared to most modern consoles

[fleet veldt]

If it runs DOOM Eternal fine, and is planned to be put on smartphones, then it can run on a Switch even with whatever changes are being committed.

[wild wind]

It'll take a bit longer actually. The Switch is Nintendo's current platform unlike the PS4, and is the platform of choice for a ton of smaller devs. It should outlast the PS4 version by several years.

[nova harness]

I heard they were going to be making a NS2

[wild wind]

Yes, but people have been saying that for years at this point.

[fleet veldt]

Considering the Xbox One's 10 years old... It'll be fine.

[tall shoal]

That's crazy 💀

[late stirrup]

yeah and due to the fact of how warframe works in a squad, basically functioning off of the device of the host, i am not looking forward to having smartphone players in warframe
switch hosts are very laggy for someone on a pc like me, so i hope they make smartphone players truly optional, because sure, you can turn off crossplay, but then you'll never get a lobby due to how that works

but i'm not here to argue

does anyone have any new info about the duviri screens?

[fleet veldt]

The questionnaires? They're all affected by Man-in-Wall in some fashion.

[prime lantern]

I mean I can only assume wally put them there

However 5 I believe have direct alterations
The fate of albrecht Entrati
The attack of the galleria
How many fingers are on one's hand
You wouldn't welch on a deal
And 1 other I can't remember

[fleet veldt]

Did you forget, Kiddo?

[prime lantern]

That's the one

[fleet veldt]

You owe me.
...Err, you're welcome.

[next zealot]

Ooo