builds-discussion

[peak crown]

my build rn and i have 0 energy always

equilibrium DOESN'T WORK

[nova swift]

another option is to run universal fallout and run radiation/electric chromatic, so you have orbs everywhere

[fierce lark]

you're using the stinky dumb sahasa kubrow that doesn't do anything

[livid wadi]

I use diriga

[dark harbor]

just use energy nexus and ggs

[peak crown]

cause i have no other pets expect taxon

[fierce lark]

also all of your kubrow's mods are unranked and aren't doing anything

[fierce lark]

energy nexus doesn't work while you're in exalted blade

[nova swift]

yea blind rage is taking your expenditure without anything to fix it besides equilibrium, you need much more duration and/or eff if you want to be able to run blind rage chromatic in this use case

[dark harbor]

why do you need exalted blade

[craggy niche]

taxon is fine

[dark harbor]

XD

[livid wadi]

Exalted blade waste is higher than energy nexus but may work if there are a lot of enemies

[livid wadi]

Because you're running excalibur

Why do you need overshield if you're running Dante

[peak crown]

on taxon situation isn't better

[dark harbor]

and? you don't need that to do a lot of damge

[nova swift]

well you can run a slash dash excal, kinda funny actually with afflictions and null stars

[livid wadi]

But you can use it to do a lot of dmg

[craggy niche]

he gon die alot less than a improperly fitted vulpa and prolly spread more synth deconstruct around too

[fierce lark]

you don't need to wield it, but not having control of my character because im spamming slash dash to kill everything is kinda w/e

[dark harbor]

ofc you can run other sources to get energy with exalibur if you want to use the ultimate

[fierce lark]

id rather just use the mobility skill for mobility when i want mobility

[peak crown]

idk where's that pet about what you talkin

[peak crown]

i use 1 skill too for shieldgate

[livid wadi]

What works with me is diriga and the shoot that spreads status to everyone while giving energy and health orbs for equilibrium

Works well with condition overload

[fierce lark]

also im pretty sure combo mods on your exalted blade require you to actually have exalted blade equipped to benefit from those mods

[craggy niche]

A badly modded sentinel will survive better than a badly modded pet

[gritty ore]

Does the melee weapon damage and mods effect valkyrs claws as well?

[livid wadi]

Yeah

[dark harbor]

i use this on excalibur and i like it Xd

[peak crown]

i use augur on my secondry weapon

[livid wadi]

Not the same mod

[quartz tartan]

This. Sentinels aren't drawing fire, because you're drawing more aggro than the sentinel. However, pets can be away from you, so they're prime "shoot this guy" targets

[fierce lark]

arachne swap on excal is actual lunacy

[peak crown]

augur have same effect it's set

[dark harbor]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/512356777451323393/1331342540141760542/i015227902895.gif

[livid wadi]

Each mod has a different effect but have a bonus effect if you have the set

[livid wadi]

That gives you DMG what he's using grants him range

[craggy niche]

Put synth deconstruct on your taxon and work on that thing a lil bit

[fierce lark]

id post my excal but im still in the process of refitting the umbrals into not garbage

[livid wadi]

Man just use Kullervo atp @peak crown

10 times easier to mod

[peak crown]

hard to get

• i like excal

[livid wadi]

You can get him in 1 day and solves every problem Excalibur has

[quartz tartan]

then bleed for your craft

[peak crown]

idk how to build volt but i have it

[craggy niche]

300x harder to get lmao

[clever root]

how do you get kurvello? i have no clue where to get his currency

[peak crown]

tbh if dante will be ez to get i will get dante

[livid wadi]

Got it in 2 days playing 4 hours total

[peak crown]

but i dont have any idea how to get him

[livid wadi]

You have to beat him in every spiral but happiness and kill the dragon, don't leave or it won't count

[uneven musk]

is the mark1 braton better than braton

[craggy niche]

i twhought the mk1 were worse

[clever root]

tyvm

[dark harbor]

you don't have arcane energize?

for exca

[livid wadi]

What you usually want to do is roll every decree until you get the X2 harvesting. Kill kullervo and farm what you need to get then repeat

[peak crown]

i have it but idk instead of what i can use it

• where i can get dante?

[livid wadi]

Sanctum

[dark harbor]

dante is with loid i think

[livid wadi]

Yh

[peak crown]

sanctum?

[dark harbor]

on sactum anatomica

[craggy niche]

sanctum is big chad energy

[dark harbor]

deimos

[craggy niche]

my favorite part of warframe in general

[peak crown]

should i do this on steelpath or there's no difference in getting dante?

[dark harbor]

here

[livid wadi]

I hate that they are immune to viral

What would be a great build for kuva bramma nowadays

[craggy niche]

yeeee you just shuffle on over to rad

[peak crown]

where i can get vessels?

[violet silo]

no

[craggy niche]

Disruption. LOTS AND LOTS of disruption

[violet silo]

armatus

[livid wadi]

You can Optain it from Disruption missions on Armatus, Deimos

[peak crown]

should i do on steel path?

[glad ice]

can anyone recommend a build for the kuva nukor for someone that is relatively new? this is my current build

[livid wadi]

Idk about the drop chance but prob

[violet silo]

step 1: cyte-09

[dark harbor]

yeah

steelpath allways XD

[craggy niche]

i been using dual toxy on cyte and holy

[livid wadi]

I mean yeah ofc but what if I want to test it with collective curse on Kullervo. I want it as a support weapon for Syam or Hate

[violet silo]

just use rauta then

it won’t be that good without cyte

[livid wadi]

Combo building isn't my thing, I'm already using truth flame

[nova swift]

If you do want to play excal check out this guy, probably one of the better sources on YT when it comes to excal https://www.youtube.com/@Agallx/

[violet silo]

the mod designed to preserve combo but allow for heavy attack use? that truth’s flame?

[peak crown]

well i can't do this on steelapth

cause again no fcin energy

i rly already starting to think about delete this shit cause no fcin energy

[nova swift]

btw, exalted blade's energy cost scales with both eff and duration, you only have 100% dura and 80% eff in that build

[dark harbor]

i mean if you don't kill you don't get orbs

[nova swift]

you need continuity, or impetus, or anything really

[livid wadi]

Also the mod that if doesn't one shot anyone which is common makes your combo restart

[peak crown]

it cost a lot

[peak crown]

i killing enemies but no orbs

they not droping orbs

i will try volt while i farm dante

and will do this on standart

[violet silo]

exactly, the whole point is to preserve combo but still allow for a heavy spam build

[dark harbor]

then if it cost this much why you don't put more efficiency

[violet silo]

if you’re using it but not building combo you aren’t using it well

[dark harbor]

like

[livid wadi]

Inconsistent DMG for bosses or anything not one shoteable . that's why I want a high DPS support

[violet silo]

then why are you using an AOE explosive weapon?

[dark harbor]

like this one

[livid wadi]

Because I got it and I'm testing builds with it. What would be a great build?

[timber sparrow]

how can i build the mutalist cernos if i actually want the toxin cloud to do some damage

also underframe is so much better than overframe wow for testing

what does optimize for floor mean

[nova swift]

I also think investing 3 mods + 1 arcane into shieldgating while you arent quite ready for steel path yet is kinda wild on excal, you would do half as well with adaptation + some health + brief respite

even with null stars helminth you can fight steel path up to eda quite comfortably without relying on gating

[violet silo]

aside from cyte it’s probably a regular viral rifle build, just with firestorm

[livid wadi]

Galvanized chambers and aptitude right?

[violet silo]

not aptitude actually

[livid wadi]

Viral does not affect aptitude if I remember well

[violet silo]

nothing to do with whatever ur talking abt, it’s just that attitude only applies on direct hits

[livid wadi]

So it doesn't affect the alt?

[violet silo]

it doesn’t affect any of the explosions

[livid wadi]

Alr

For ammo what should I use?

[violet silo]

cyte

i’m dead serious btw, the ammo economy will be trash without him and this isn’t a good single target weapon in the first place

[remote bay]

best valence bonus for Tenet glaxion?
I currently have 60% toxin

[drowsy pelican]

Anyone know how to build revenant around his thralls

[solar reef]

magnetic more than likely

[solar reef]

thats the funny part

[violet silo]

mag

[tender forge]

You run solo and radiation from Cyrinka pillars subsume. So the thrulls you create at least get damage muliplier against their own faction

I had an idea around this. Equanox 10% strength 3rd and 4th active and Cyrinka pillars over 1 in night form. Max range.

[drowsy pelican]

What do I subsume for pillars

[tender forge]

You apply radiation for damage buff of 550% and 5x from 3rd

[tender forge]

3 or 4. If you have universal fallout arcane and 45% or more range use 3rd for subsume then you can use equilerium to stay in 4th

[tender forge]

Sum people use mind control to keep alpha Thrull alive

[wary brook]

Is it okay to post screenshots of our weapon/warframe builds here?

[tender forge]

Yes

[wary brook]

Cool

[tender forge]

Its very common

[drowsy pelican]

Did I burn down the kitchen

[wary brook]

Anyone mind giving me their opinion on my Evensong build?

[drowsy pelican]

What’s the riven

[tender forge]

1 thing the nexus will not generate engery in 4th

[drowsy pelican]

True

[tender forge]

-11% crit?!??!

[wary brook]

XD

yep!

[tender forge]

Evensong wants crit

[tender forge]

The arcane is bad because your not doing enough status to trigger

[wary brook]

I went status and direct damage

[tender forge]

Go crit and multishot. Harmony is the only weapon to make enemies deal 0 damage when hit by aoe blast

[wary brook]

You'd actually be surprised at how well it works

[tender forge]

Not on the steelpath

[wary brook]

Thats actually wher I find it works. Otherwise it takes out enemies before it can build up

[tender forge]

Split flight mod turns bows in to shot guns with 4 arrows

[solar reef]

"im going to make my build worse so i can use the thing my weapon was good enough to not need"

[solar reef]

just dont use the -crit mod

actively a huge demerit

[tender forge]

If anything go split flight and status duration. For 190% duration on puncure procs for redused damage.

For enemies hit

[wary brook]

Sweet

[wary forge]

this mod is so buns

[tender forge]

Cernos prime.

Better than galve chamber if you hit your shots

[wary forge]

cernos prime over probiscuis

[tender forge]

No kills needed

[wary forge]

ok then

[brittle sleet]

Mutalist Cernos with Split Flights... yum

[tender forge]

3, 6, 9, 12, arrows flying

[wary brook]

Reworked. My Evensong. Thoughts?

[wary forge]

neg status duration 🧱

[fierce lark]

negative status duration on a gas build lol

[solar reef]

https://tenor.com/view/son-im-crine-son-im-crine-gif-5176045023480767429

you and your negatives

-cc, now -sd

[west radish]

is this fire build?

[fierce lark]

gas cold is a choice, and status duration isn't the worst negative as long as it doesn't exceed 66%, but negative duration on a gas build is horrible

[solar reef]

yeah looks fine

if you arent using a weapon that hits 50% cc then drop tenacious

[west radish]

he was dying constatnly in levelcap

[fierce lark]

calc shot is an interesting choice

[west radish]

and i didint feel like killing eximus

recoverd him so i bought primed regen

[solar reef]

it wouldnt be my choice

[west radish]

its like whatever

i can swap to electro

does it really matter?

[fierce lark]

mine has sacrifice in that slot

[west radish]

pretty good too ngl

i dotn die much tho and if i do i have lastgasp

but i guess that could work as well pretty fire

[wary forge]

why u on calculated shot

[undone dust]

i be calculating my shots

[frigid crater]

You be what? You be what???

[undone dust]

i be shotting my calculations

[wary forge]

Calc is short for calculator

[frigid crater]

Looking for improvement
Currently have 2 cast speed shards and 2 purple energy shards

[timid steppe]

45% efficiency on nova 😭 214 str

did you even read her skills

[frigid crater]

No, and she's still one of my strongest frames

[versed harbor]

nova is chill at 45% eff

[frigid crater]

She's just that god i guess

[versed harbor]

cracked passive

[frigid crater]

Cracked kit tbh

[rancid mirage]

I think it might be better to take of adaptation and replace w rolling guard or stretch

[frigid crater]

Also, i have high strenght because of roar

[timid steppe]

you know what, its a burger build but ive seen worse

[rancid mirage]

Also ig you would also want ko protection if you play fast nova

[timid steppe]

what do you mean lmao

[rancid mirage]

quickening enemies w 4

Hold cast 4

[timid steppe]

no i get that, what do you mean ko protection and why would he need it

[rancid mirage]

Bc hes gonna get swarmed and its nice to not get hit by fast eximus

[timid steppe]

😭

i forgot people in this server die

in missions

[rancid mirage]

?

[versed harbor]

very constructive tbh

[frigid crater]

Meh, its common

[pastel temple]

Truly inspirational

[timid steppe]

i dont really feel like arguing with people who only do steel path incursions and die to eximus

[rancid mirage]

Btw thanks for sharing tips on that nova build

[versed harbor]

yep and level cap cascade is the only content and ur a noob if u dont exclusively play that

[frigid crater]

Im gonan probably drop adaptation for archon stretch

[versed harbor]

why be elitist for no reason >.>

[pastel temple]

Lwk I only remember the two augment mods as part of the build in my nova ngl

[frigid crater]

Want to use more diriga and It can proc it

So its a W either way

[timid steppe]

i never said that, its a bad/unoptimal build for steelpath too
But you are the reason i dont want to get into it, improving is demonised

[rancid mirage]

Buddy js gets on here to talk shit and doesn’t actually say anything that contributes to helping players

[frigid crater]

I do ETA with this build dude

[timid steppe]

i do eta with 0 forma any frame with arcane circumvent

[frigid crater]

Oh you're dumb, got it

[pastel temple]

Someone here said "it's larp or be larped"

[timid steppe]

alr bro

[versed harbor]

ur advice was to play better and call the build buns be fr

[pastel temple]

Now it makes more sense

[rancid mirage]

Lmao

[frigid crater]

Anyway, someone actually plays the game and can give tips?

[rancid mirage]

i did scroll up

[pastel temple]

I would just switch out your adaptation cuz nova can easily survive with just gating

[timid steppe]

adaptation is good if youre only doing steelpath content

keep it, and no im not larping

[opal leaf]

We all play

[rancid mirage]

I quite literally suggested replacing adaptation with something else since you can slow down everything and also null star can stun majority of enemies

[opal leaf]

We have more ways of survival that Adaptation was left behind. The DR needs you to take a but lots damage and just a waste of mod slot

[mighty flare]

most of nova's abilities cap out around ~150% strength, little reason to build beyond that

[pastel temple]

Which is why I used nourish I think. Not roar

[rancid mirage]

He said he likes roar so hes not going for that 75% on 4

[pastel temple]

Nourish still gets spread by her 1 due to her augments

[rancid mirage]

I also run 75% fast nova with 100% efficiency but it’s whatever

[opal leaf]

Nova 1 is consider a pseudo weapon so ya Nourish would work on it

[mighty flare]

you dont need super high roar for much and it would let him free up equilibrium since he's alr running 2 shards @frigid crater

equilibrium mod + 2 shards is a waste

[pastel temple]

What other subsumes would be good for her

[timid steppe]

nova has more interactions with nourish

[wary forge]

hello mac

[timid steppe]

hi Zach

[rancid mirage]

I agree but that guy is the one that you need to ping to discuss bc I don’t agree w his build but I am also willing to js pass that aspect and point out other things in his build

[wary forge]

https://tenor.com/view/glorp-glorpin-it-glorp-soda-soda-shaking-gif-905011299873407089

[maiden cargo]

web embrance works with mallet dmg right ?

[timid steppe]

why not tell him straight up what you would build instead

[nova swift]

personally ran pillage with nova cause it scales with similar stats to 4 and you can stack up dr well with null stars, natural shield dr and adaptation if you wanted to

[rancid mirage]

He already said he wants high str for roar so I will js say ok and move on

[opal leaf]

Idk tbh

. Roar for the DoT
. Breach Surge for SOME reason

[charred gale]

https://tenor.com/view/speed-ishowspeed-speed-stream-ishowspeed-stream-speed-nod-gif-1082323842437565509

[pastel temple]

Not much of a fan of breach surge but alright

[charred gale]

i told u

[wary forge]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-hug-angry-birds-catbird-really-meme-no-fake-gif-9980836029424925531

[charred gale]

A MEOWL

[rancid mirage]

Yo breach surge crowd control satisfying asf

Its nice especially if your frame got grouping

[wary forge]

gonna munch onna burger #yum

[opal leaf]

Breach surge is something I am not gonna use hahahaha

[nova swift]

its pretty neat, but the cast is long and it takes a while to get going

[opal leaf]

Remove Adaptation for Archon Intensify
. You have Neutron Star, and they work each other

[frigid crater]

What is archon intensify is gonna do?

I dont think nova has healing

[opal leaf]

Vitality I mean, sorry, sorry

[maiden cargo]

nova has healing

[opal leaf]

Archon Vitality

[maiden cargo]

but achon intesnify wont work

[frigid crater]

Oh yeah, true, more neutral star dmg

[nova swift]

question is if you run it for damage or not, depends on the usecase

although you do run roar, so maybe?

[frigid crater]

I run roar more for " help the team and myself as a bonus "

I dont really know If arcane hot shot affects neutron star, If It doesn't, id run arcane arachne

[nova swift]

it doesnt yea, either arachne or avenger for null stars specifically

that being said its nice for weapons like the ocucor to really start clearing

[open oar]

I need help

Wanting to use the cordon ability more effectively

[wary forge]

why would you want to do that when ur using ur verglas to nuke/do dmg

wheres the firate mod for ur verglass

[opal leaf]

Cordon? Manifold Bond, that's the only way

[open oar]

Idk if I’m doing it wrong but it still take a bit for it to activate

[open oar]

Because I like the ability to horde

[wary forge]

u can use another abilitiy to group

[opal leaf]

Bc if did

There is no other way

[wary forge]

is just to much mods to make both verglas dps and grouping

[open oar]

Does that look better

[wary forge]

go hellfire over elementalist

[open oar]

I have the mods ur talking about

[wary forge]

and ur good

[open oar]

Really?

[wary forge]

yes

[rancid mirage]

do you know that galvanized mods only works if your primary is rifle right

[open oar]

Yes they’re on my primary

[wary forge]

well they have to be in ur primary and u have to get kills

nice then ur good

[rancid mirage]

yea i js use non galv mods but if you are willing to do the work then yea

[wary forge]

move the mods around

to make viral heat

[open oar]

Sorry is that better

[wary forge]

nice

yes

radiated reload is the flex slot reload jsut helps with the uptime

if u more dmg go vigilante armorments but ye that looks good

[open oar]

Alr thank you

[opal leaf]

Then wait for it to activate every... Whatever reduced cool down it has now

[fierce lark]

ideally go magnetic over 60 heat, adds uptime + extra co element

would be better than radiation anyway

[fossil yew]

is the Ventao prime good

[maiden cargo]

have not tried new mod yet

[rancid mirage]

me too but it seems decent based on watching numbers on others ppls game play

[turbid rover]

Can anyone tell me what to fix?

[iron mica]

As a new player (still doing star chart and main quests) is Nekros still good for farming at low levels? Should I grab it from the circuit

I see him on team comps for farming

[lunar mesa]

I'd probably go with Oberon this week, SOLELY for the fact that Nekros and Valkyr are easier to do their normal farms. Whereas Oberon comes from Railjack Proximas from Point of Interests.

• Nekros comes from Lephantis fight (Magnacidium, Deimos)
• Valkyr comes from Alad V (Themisto, Jupiter)
  Both have generous drop chances in comparison.

[iron mica]

Thanks for that rundown :) that sounds totally reasonable

I already own Valkyr so that makes the Oberon choice eazy

[lunar mesa]

Np

[iron mica]

quick followup, I just got back to the game yesterday so this was my first circuit reset. I now know that everyone shares the same pool, so is there a way to see the schedule or no ?

[maiden cargo]

yes

but specops has a point

but getting nekros now will help you farm resources you need

[iron mica]

im far enough along that I have the node to farm him unlocked I just havent tried it before

[quartz tartan]

I finally got my Cedo Prime. I'm guessing it doesn't need Point Blank? I'd been using it on normal cedo, but I wanna do this one "correctly"

[maiden cargo]

ic i remember requiring a specific item to do it
BUT
i think they remove it

[iron mica]

the wiki says its a mission drop, sounds chill enough

[fierce lark]

you’d want galv savvy if you had it but otherwise no

base damage arcane is also pointless and you should run frostbite/blight if you have them (the buff can be kept up with alt fire)

[frozen grail]

in your guys opinion which weapon is better between the boltor (incarnon) and the evensong?

[maiden cargo]

eversong bow

boltor is bolt rifle

boltor incarnon goes brrr

[frozen grail]

so true

[maiden cargo]

octavia main stats is duration ?

or range

[lunar mesa]

Yes, you can find the schedule on the Wiki https://wiki.warframe.com/w/The_Circuit#Normal_Circuit

[lyric imp]

which one should I keep ?

[iron mica]

sweet, I was looking at my plat and Mesa but I'll just wait 2 weeks :)

[maiden cargo]

still left

[pliant kite]

how far into endurance can the acceltra go?

[pastel temple]

Not that far

[pliant kite]

i hear alot about this gun but i don't see it compared to other dps primaries

[pastel temple]

As far as primaries go, acceltra kinda dookie

Watch as I get swarmed by acceltra larpers for saying that

[pliant kite]

mainly just trying to solve all my 'this gun can melt anything' weapons rn

like i have the standard crit laetum and furis for DPS rn but im looking for primary options for both killing large crowds and single target

[quartz tartan]

whgat u mean i put 100 forma into my accelrta prim and one shot eidolons outside of knee shots i am godtier skill issue </joke>

[pliant kite]

ehh i don't do endurance much so i can see this gun being fun if i get it in ETA

[opal leaf]

In Base SP, without relying on the frame's buff (if you're not using Saryn, Zephyr, Cyte, etc.) it won't survive Conjuction survival which is lvl 200

But with Gun Platformer. It can go up to lvl 700 to 800 on SP fissure cascade (I can testify cause I tested it with Xaku and Harrow

It's heavily reliant on Frames that buffs your guns.

[pliant kite]

oh yeah i use weapon platform stuff alot

been using vauban with this thing since i want a nice ad clearing primary and keep my secondary to single target boss dps

(mainly when im not spamming his 3)

[opal leaf]

Then yeah Acceltra will reach like... Lvl 800+ max

By far one of the worse guns in the game

But I still use it with Zephyr

[past crater]

Was it worth investing into the Perigale

[opal leaf]

I would suggest Torid Incarnoff or Cedo because they have cool interactions with Vauban (and Styanax... I'll show an example for Styanax)

[smoky gale]

which of these two are better?

[pliant kite]

i have Cedo but i don't care for Torid's incarnoff, what's so neat about cedo on vauban?

[past crater]

Cedo's just good tbh

[opal leaf]

@pliant kite same thing applied to vauban

Bastille + Vortex then alt Cedo on enemies will result to this

That's what happened

[opal leaf]

Torid Incarnoff is just a killer smoke tbh

[past crater]

The gun co weapon with priming built un

[pliant kite]

lol

[opal leaf]

But yeah, Cedo and Vauban is quite of a good combo

Again, same applied to Styanax. It's just the same

[quartz tartan]

yeet the explosions onto the grouping and you get big numbers

[old marsh]

Right if using crux otherwise left

[quartz tartan]

Yeet the boom onto the vuwaaaahhh and you get ba-bam-blam

[fierce lark]

left is a great roll

id still take left on a crux build, it covers some of the dmg you lose from arcane and crux covers the status you lose from dropping 60 tox

really wants primed stabilizer though

[opal leaf]

Summarized, hahaha

[gritty ore]

Is the melee weapon type and mods important for a Valkyr build?

[void canopy]

anything i should replace? also im using critical parallel over flensing strike rn

[tidal parrot]

how good is a dehta zaw riven? ik i saw it has like i think a 1.2x riven dispo so i would imagine with a riv its decent

[tidal parrot]

on direct impact gundition overload is multiplicitive so mby smthn along the lines of replacing rifle cannonade if u wana keep elementalist but otherwise i would say just drop elementalist for it tbh

actually, probably better to drop either hammer shot or vital sense

since you have 3 sources of cd

[void canopy]

drop elementalist/hammer shot for

[tidal parrot]

galvanized aptitude

keep elementalist drop like vital sense or hammershot

[void canopy]

aight aight ty ill give it a try

[inner raptor]

does latron wraith have the same fall off range as prime

[long sun]

which channel to ask fior riven advice?

[tidal parrot]

here or gameplay discution

[long sun]

which better

[inner raptor]

do people run acuity on furis?

[tidal parrot]

no

[inner raptor]

if so then right for now dunno how much recoil it has tho

[tidal parrot]

i would say right tbh since the ms but both are decent

[tidal parrot]

its incarnon is effectively the 777 amp but does insane damage

[long sun]

alright thx

[void canopy]

feels better, ty for pointing it out!

[lyric imp]

this is mostly for mag, at one point Instead of primed point blank I had shotgun elementalist. Im still debating if going for a faction mod instead

[inner raptor]

hypotethically, lets say theres a weapon that has 50% viral 50% DOT so lets say heat

whats the ideal ratio between viral and heat

[velvet pulsar]

I'd say 25% vs 75%

So 1:3

[half cedar]

Looking into Hounds; any certain builds or some tips for

1. General Purpose?
2. Exalted Melee Frames?
3. DPS/Status Priming?

[velvet pulsar]

That all gets covered in one build

[fierce lark]

the "ideal ratio", theoretically, would be one in which your viral weighting is just high enough to on avg apply on your first shot, to get the double dmg asap and then maximize dot stacks beyond that

but there's not really a good way to dynamically modify weightings, we just run the mods we have and they do what they do

and most weapons don't actually deal significant dot damage anyways, mostly raw damage

[old charm]

Use a kavat instead for exalted melee imo

[half cedar]

Awww alright

I guess my Panzer still stays XD

[old charm]

Smeeta and Adarza are just as good, its really the combo of primed pack leader, hunter recovery, tandem bond, and swipe that do it in

I cover my kavat build in most of my build videos, its a spread of panzer and smeeta mostly. The build itself is like 95% common for melee only and isn’t exclusive to excalibur

[fierce crag]

Can nokko be turned into a weapons platform

[violet silo]

not really

[viscid hazel]

left or right

[violet silo]

left by far

right is trash

[viscid hazel]

okkk ty I just see damage and i get naive

[violet silo]

damage isnt even that good

[viscid hazel]

as i say, naive

im trying to hit that sweet groll ready for torid incarnon to be back in rotation

[fierce crag]

Is gara good with the umbra set?

[violet silo]

no

ive never used her actually, but im pretty confident that she is not

[fierce lark]

no lol

the vast majority of frames do not care for umbral set

and the ones that do only really want it because of persistence

[desert goblet]

uriel alt helm is in the NW shop!!

[wary forge]

Don’t roll Torid

Biggest waste of kuva in the game

[opal leaf]

Nope

[old charm]

I don’t see a reason to use the umbral set with gara prime’s base stats. She doesn’t have enough base armor to reach 700 for persistence and her base health isn’t high enough to make that worth it imo

[viscid hazel]

Why? I thought torid was like 10/10 one of the best incarnons

[opal leaf]

Ya but tbh, he doesn't need a riven.. Unless if you want to sell

A trash riven of it is like 200p

[wary forge]

Torid rivens aren’t that expensive in the first place and the market is so over saturated if you want a good Torid roll it’s not gonna that much more then the trash price and also rolling rivens is never a good way to make profit only becomes worth it if you have a shit ton of kuva by doing something like meta arbis all day

[lunar mesa]

Yeah plus Gara's 2 already gives DR which is usually more than enough. You can get some iframes from casting her 4 as well if needed.

[old charm]

Because simple economics. You’re better off buying a mid rolled riven for like +50p versus buying an unrolled one and trying to roll even a mid rolled riven. More kuva spent on torid = lower mid rolled price

Rolling torid rivens is like setting up a bagel shop in the town with the top 10 bagel shops in the world

[wary forge]

Torid is good yes if u really want a riven just buy one

And if you can’t afford one then don’t

[viscid hazel]

okay so torid is good but investing in a riven for a good weapon is a waste of time

[old charm]

Even then, just play Excalibur instead, who doesn’t need a riven 😄

[viscid hazel]

i thought this is what everyone did

[old charm]

Its not about that, its about kuva investment

[viscid hazel]

um

[old charm]

You can feel free to spent all your kuva on a torid riven but unless you already have FU level platinum, its a bad way to spend kuva compared to rolling something that isn’t extremely oversaturated

[wary forge]

It’s just straight up gambling rolling riven

It’s over 1 in 1000 rolls u get a great roll

[old charm]

Kuva = platinum if you’re rolling the right rivens, and torid is on par with literal trash tier weapons in that category

[viscid hazel]

this is going against everything I've ever been told and now I'm just in a state of existential kuva spending crisis

[old charm]

Yeah and a great roll is basically not much more than an unrolled

[wary forge]

It’s just mathematically not optimal

[wraith sinew]

Is arcane aegis really that good? A 3% chance for 30% extra doesn’t seem like that much unless does it stack?

[viscid hazel]

so what weapons are worth injecting kuva into?

[old charm]

Well the people telling you to doom roll a torid riven are probably bad at rolling rivens

[wary forge]

If you want to use your kuva to roll then sure that’s fine just don’t expect to get anything good

[fierce lark]

and water is wet

the entire reason kuva exists is to gamble on rivens

[old charm]

I really should make a video about rolling rivens, the problem is its a skill that is hard to teach and easy to do wrong

[viscid hazel]

zach, I'm not trying to say you're wrong I'm right typa shii, im just surprised to be hearing different

[wary forge]

Ok and

[old charm]

You can gamble smartly though, doom rolling torid is one of the dumbest ways to roll rivens, especially if you’re hoping to profit off it

[fierce lark]

did they say they were doomrolling for profit?

[viscid hazel]

so should i just stick with this and call it a day

[old charm]

I wouldn’t put any more kuva into that

[wary forge]

It doesn’t matter if they are trying to roll for profit or not rolling it to try to get a good roll still isn’t smart

It’s literally just all luck

[fierce lark]

this is fine enough to slot, but like...if you want to roll for something better there's nothing wrong with that at all

[wary forge]

^ true

[old charm]

On other weapons, a roll like that could be like +200p. On the torid, its like 50p maybe, if someone’s even willing to buy it versus just getting something cheaper and doom rolling a mid riven themselves

[fierce lark]

cc cd heat with no neg isn't even a good roll, but torid dispo is so high that it's "good enough"

[wary forge]

It’s good enough to slot yes

[violet silo]

lmaooooooo

[viscid hazel]

But you guys just said it's bad for me to keep rolling it

[old charm]

Its about the margin between unrolled/trash and mid rolled. On the torid, it can genuinely be 0. On some other A tier or S tier popular weapons, its closer to 200-600p

[fierce lark]

where is this analysis coming from

[viscid hazel]

My confusion right now is 11/10

[old charm]

Wfm

[fierce lark]

torid trash rolls are 400p min, why are we out here saying it's 50p

[violet silo]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/216371815482654720/1498004406237659319/togif.gif

[wary forge]

It is it’s all luck based rolling but if you want to spend your kuva no one is stoping you

[fierce lark]

torid has one of the highest valued riven markets in the game lol

[violet silo]

think you guys are running this joke too far

[wary forge]

It’s just don’t expect anything good I would personally just keep that riven

[wary brook]

My rolls with Evensong rivens keep biting me in the behind!

[wary forge]

You should have just purchased a Torid riven in the first place if u wanted to get one that’s my point

[viscid hazel]

All I'm trying to do is find a weapon that is better than my burston incarnon rn where I can flatten acolytes in SP missions, my burston does some damage, but not absolutely loads, at least not compared to what I've seen from other players

[wary forge]

2 more to 67

[wary forge]

What’s your build

There’s no way your burston is struggling with acolytes

[wary brook]

Want to see my luck?

[violet silo]

you arent gonna find torid better than burston lol

[old charm]

I just use operator to kill acolytes if I’m worried 😄

[fierce lark]

here's what you should know about rivens

DO NOT EVER ROLL TO SELL

if a weapon is good, and it has a good or decent disposition (ie almost all circuit incarnons), it is worth rolling for if you like the weapon and are going to use it

if you get a riven that is good, even if it's not amazing, you should stop rolling unless you have nothing else you want to save your kuva for (your torid riven is a decent example)

if the weapon is bad disposition (like...below 0.80 or smth) then you should not roll for it, as the amount of slottable rolls goes down the lower the disposition, and even good rolls will have barely noticeable effects

[wary forge]

It’s so incredibly over saturated trash/unrolled Torid is 350-400 u can buy a cc ms -h Torid literally for 500 plat and most good 3p 1n rolls are at minimum 800p

[old charm]

Lol, I roll to sell all the time and do just fine

[viscid hazel]

The one labelled 'Secondary' is the one I built myself and the one I use the most, I just haven't got round to renaming them, lol.

The one labelled 'Main' is one another player recommended but I found it doesn't do as well as the one I built.

For the incarnon I chose:

Evolution 2: Fortress Salvo
Evolution 3: Kinetic Battle
Evolution 4: Fatal Affliction

[viscid hazel]

Don't even get me started on operator/drifter, I struggle to do tridolons lol

[old charm]

My 153 amp go brrr and nukes acolytes. Never worry about dying to em again!

[wary forge]

Drop infected clip for galvanized scope and go primary deadhead

Also go absolute valor for evo 4

[fierce lark]

the cheapest cc cd ms i can find is 800p and it has no neg

[old charm]

The most simplified explanation I can give for rolling rivens in general. You roll rivens that make sense, so weapons actually worth using, and as soon as you get something profitable, you start rolling another one. If that involves buying 5 rivens for a weapon and selling 3 of them at like +50p each, that’s profit. Its doom rolling just one riven and burning decent rolls that someone will pay something extra for is where kuva no longer becomes easy platinum

[solemn plaza]

hey guys, i just got hydroid
how do i make the screen as messy as possible

[wary forge]

There’s a fr cc ms with a negative listed for 500

Riven is ussaly fire rate/elemental slot anyways

[viscid hazel]

Like that? (i changed evo 4)

[wary forge]

Or the faction mod/base damage slot

[wary forge]

Looks good

Should be doing way more dmg especially if u can keep hitting headshots

[viscid hazel]

I will try that, ty ❤️ so i should probably just sell the torid riv and stick to my burston huh

i could use the plat anyways

[wary forge]

Well they do different things

[old charm]

Yeah on melee its the same, its hilarious how many cd/as/range/-harmless rivens I roll and insta sell for 5kp, even when they’re objectively bad rivens for that weapon. Just recently rolled a ghoulsaw one that’s functionally worthless with its disposition compared to basically any other mod in that slot

[wary forge]

Torid still good for trash clearing burston for single targets really just depends what your loadout needs

[fierce lark]

infected clip would be marginally better than mal force without having primed cryo

[old charm]

Modding gets so cramped now a days, you basically need an element on a riven to fit it in the build. Almost no riven is worth more than something like an Elementalist mod if the weapon does any status damage

[wary forge]

That’s probably true ye

[viscid hazel]

imma go test it, i will report back

[wary forge]

Or 60/60 cold mod lowkey

Since it’s not primed cryo

[fierce lark]

you definitely don't want double 60/60

ive talked to ninjase about running 90/90 if you dont have pcr and the consensus was running 90/90 is probably slightly better than 60/90

but it likely doesn't matter that much

30% more elemental dmg matters more when your other mod doesn't say 165%

[old charm]

I calculate out the resulting status chance for whatever element you’re using. If a 90% affects the status weighing enough to take it from like 40% to 51%, then that’s obviously worth it

Its an important part of melee for something like melee influence and the final status chance with weeping wounds up, but the same principle applies to conditional bonuses on primary/secondaries if applicable

[viscid hazel]

btw while im here, would someone mind taking a look at my kronen build

[fierce lark]

in burston's case you go from 150% viral 48% status to 180% viral 30% status

so it's tough to say

[viscid hazel]

its a mess lol, i appreciate the help you guys are giving by the way

[fierce lark]

it's easier to make the distinction when weapons have 80% from slotting gapt and 60s don't matter as much, for incarnons it might need a calc

[old charm]

But is viral more important than stacking a like infinitely stacking status in this situation? Take verglas and heat/viral as an example since i have tons of experience with it, where the difference of it being heat biased versus viral is like 5x increase in damage

[wary forge]

If you lik using tonfas just get Praedos

[viscid hazel]

Oh I have praedos i think

[wary forge]

Just use that then

[viscid hazel]

yeah I got praedos

[wary forge]

Inondem is also very good

[viscid hazel]

just haven't invested in it

[wary forge]

Both of the zariman meeles are very strong inondem does more dmg then Praedos but doenst have the utility that Praedos has

[viscid hazel]

I see, ty

[fierce lark]

not relevant in this scenario since burston incarnon just deletes anything you put in front of it

otherwise i'd probably be more in favor of 60 virals to help the heat dot

fact of the matter is you will almost never see a heat tick on any enemy because nothing survives a full second

verglas also has the benefit of the sentinel shooting it often equipping Fired Up

which is a free +100% heat

[wary forge]

For duplicate this isn’t that bad tbh I would just go attack speed over carnius

[old charm]

I still bias verglas heavily into heat, around +80% with fired up, full elemental heat, and a riven with heat to prevent nourish from breaking its heat bias

[wary forge]

I know it’s boring and meta but I would just go melee influence on almost everything it’s really just that good

[old charm]

It really depends on how you intend to use melee. I’d say the best drop in melee arcane is careen, since its a feature unlock you otherwise don’t have. The damage increase is massive and doesn’t have an annoying condition like a specific crit tier that can be broken by simply just going into 1999 content

Stacking cold with careen remember is also critical damage against the target for your whole kit

[wary forge]

Melee influence is just one of the way best way to aoe clears multiple groups of enemies only really rivaled by stuff like Torid or certain weapon frame ineractions like Sobek cyte

[old charm]

There’s plenty of afflictions and vortex builds that rival influence, they’re just specific to weapons versus the fact that influence can be dropped into almost any build

[wary forge]

I mean there just isn’t

[fierce lark]

so after copying homies build into underframe and letting the robot do work (50% headshot rate), against a random 145 heavy gunner

60/60 2,083,317
60/90 2,165,415
90/90 2,131,058

[wary forge]

Really only magistar and some other slammers

[fierce lark]

so maligma + regular cryo seems to be the ideal combo

[old charm]

Dual ichor vortex creates self sustaining death clouds, melee afflictions on exalted blade with its piercing heavy attack wave can create similarly powerful gas clouds or blast procs that 1 shot through walls

Magistar can’t even compete with Exalted Blade in SP Faceoff if you know what you’re doing since you can kill jammers through walls

[wary forge]

Both of those are just better with influence tho

Like way better

[old charm]

I have a feeling you haven’t actually tried either

[fierce lark]

influence is just better than vortex period

unless you're khora and you're looting

[wary forge]

Read what influence does and read what prismatic blade does on Excalibur

[fierce lark]

the blade has mic skills

[old charm]

No one is saying that, what I’m saying is there’s some situations where vortex and afflictions is on par with influence

[wary forge]

I agree I just think it’s super niche

Like off the top I can only thing of like hate with afflictions

[old charm]

As someone with about 80% of my total game time playing Excalibur for the last 12+ years, don’t worry, I know

There’s a reason why my universal fallout chromatic influence build is so popular, infinite universal orbs since you can radiation+electric on chromatic EB

[fierce lark]

afflictions is never really "on par" with influence

it's better on some weapons, and there's generally a specific reason for that (you're slamming something with saryn or playing gas gara or using harmony etc etc)

it's just different, different use cases, but influence is better on 90% of weapons

vortex is mostly just a meme

[wary forge]

Yep

[fierce lark]

vortex would be amazing if influence didn't exist tbh

[old charm]

I’d recommend trying vortex on dual ichor in other scenarios. Since they nerfed the clouds not proccing influence, its been what I’ve primarily ran on dual ichor

[wary forge]

So would afflictions

Every melee world just be gas afflictions lol

[old charm]

The cloud damage you have to know how to buff it to make them scale properly, and they’ll hit in the millions if you do

[maiden idol]

Guys is there a chat for riven appraisal Im tryna decide between two toxocyst rolls rn

[old charm]

And not mess up the weighing of toxin/magnetic

[wary forge]

Send it

[fierce lark]

what if influence already just hits for millions anyways, and because dual ichor is dual ichor and forces you to build stupid shitty viral, your influence procs are also priming viral before doing damage

[fierce lark]

easy left

[wary forge]

Left

[fierce lark]

and stop rolling

[old charm]

For Dual Ichor, the one major exception to vortex is on saryn, so the frame of reference here is basically any other Warframe. In my case, primarily Excalibur where furious javelin scales the clouds like crazy

[maiden idol]

Ok thanks guys (Im tryna get a good punch through riven)

[fierce lark]

valid

[wary forge]

Good luck

[fierce lark]

saryn especially doesn't care about vortex, influence is just going to spread her lash dot and make her kill anything it touches anyways

[old charm]

That’s where you build toxin/magnetic instead with the nice convenient magnetic mod so you don’t have to get a crazy triple element riven to get it working like I’ve had for years now

[viscid hazel]

You know what they say, a poor tradesman always blames his tools... this is like 100x better compared to what I was running and there were even red crits flying everywhere on normal enemies... me likey... thank you so much

[old charm]

Exactly, why I exclude Saryn specifically talking about dual ichor

[wary forge]

Why would u need magnetic on a melee tho

Even for level cap it just doesn’t matter

[viscid hazel]

@wary forge

[fierce lark]

oh

on literally anyone else you run rank 0 15/15 viral mods and an elec mod and you pretend it's any other influence weapon

[old charm]

Toxin/magnetic with dual ichor vortex creates self sustaining clouds that pull enemies in to drop more clouds

[wary forge]

W

[wary forge]

Knowers know

[viscid hazel]

Now if anyone happens to have a praedos build for SP 🤣

(pls)

[fierce lark]

(you can armor strip acolytes btw)

helps a lot

[wary forge]

I mean that works sure it’s just gonna be worse then influence tho

[old charm]

Vortex is also great on hate incarnon since you can keep heat on the projectiles neutral and let them group up enemies to explode. Hate Incarnon definitely being one of the few weapons where influence is harder to justify on it and vortex has a place

[old marsh]

https://tenor.com/view/mark-cuban-shark-tank-notes-taking-notes-remember-gif-15073512

[fierce lark]

im in no way saying magnetic vortex is bad, it's just...a worse version of melee influence that's also less consistent

[wary forge]

https://overframe.gg/build/315105/praedos/the-void-praedetor-hybrid-x12-heavy-attack-influence/

[old charm]

They’ll self sustain across the map even, if you haven’t tried it with a build that can properly bonus them, its hilarious and one of the few exceptions to how OP influence is

[wary forge]

Goes over the different ways to build it and the reasons as well

Read over that guide if u can

[fierce lark]

opens build

oh hey it's the same as every other influence build moving on

[wary forge]

True…

[fierce lark]

actually it's slightly different

it's an incarnon weapon so you get to replace reach

(for an electric mod for more influencing hehexd)

[old charm]

Fun fact, you can choose to not use influence, just like you can choose to not use Rev and Torid

[fierce lark]

except you'll just put reach back in place of smite because smites are cringe

[wary forge]

Praedos u could build it as a heavy attack build tho and its still good if u want to use it as like an acolyte killer or something

[fierce lark]

i support that argument for guns and frames

i do not support it for melees

[old charm]

Skill issue imo

But I’m also the weirdo who’s played melee only since 2013 shrugs

[fierce lark]

guns and frames actually function and behave differently from each other

melees all function the same way regardless of what build you're running on them, the only gameplay difference is "am i light or heavy attacking"

the only thing that changes gameplay wise if you intentionally don't run influence on a weapon that functions best with it is "im going to kill enemies slower"

[old charm]

Yeah, that’s not how melee works

[fierce lark]

it is tho

[old charm]

I can understand not understanding the complexities of melee in Warframe

[fierce lark]

complexities lol

[old charm]

I figure if you have that strong of a opinion about that, you’ve never seen my gameplay and don’t ever intend to, so I’ll just tell you that there’s a ton of complexity to melee and its an extremely rewarding way to play the game

[rancid mirage]

Do you use block and different stance combo while meleeing

[old charm]

I practically fully utilize the stance combos in a given stance and base that on specific attack speed breakpoints

[wary forge]

Same with me I’m a chroma main for me it’s fun using different melees with influence atleast and I ussaly don’t get bored of that but yeah at the end of the day u can use whatever u want

[fierce lark]

attack speed breakpoints

we have entered the larp

[old charm]

This game’s had a complex melee system for a long time now and its criminally misunderstood and ignored to just ‘quick melee or heavy attack’

[rancid mirage]

thats nice, I do try to use them to make the game interesting but its shame that holding forward w influence pretty much js does the job in most cases

[old charm]

But like I said, I’m that weirdo who’s genuinely been melee only since 2013 and has mastered this playstyle and its kept me entertained for over a decade while literally playing one Warframe

[old charm]

even for exalted blade that’s not the best way to use it. The difference between just W and LMB versus slide aim gliding and slash dashing is absurd. Requires no parkour velocity or movement speed to maximize too. That’s an exception to the plethora of stance combos that have built in mobility to them too

Bullet jump aim gliding with slides to keep momentum*

And then timing the slide between attacks to not slide blind

[rancid mirage]

Yea I be doing that w volt so that I don’t bump into terrain

[violet silo]

we havent really had a reason to take note of how the combos work
right now, the meta is entirely influence or slam, unfortunately
no need for actual research, just hit a generic build and run it

[rancid mirage]

Glide slash slide and repeat

[violet silo]

harmony is as far as people get into combos

[old charm]

With Exalted Blade, its like 10x better than just W and LMB since you can maintain full forward momentum and combo it with Slash Dash. Doesn’t mean you can’t just play really dumb chromatic blade influence on him and just hold W and LMB, but that more advanced gameplay even as simply as that is dramatic

[old charm]

Turns out, the meta can be wrong because properly utilizing the complexities of melee mechanics in Warframe is criminally misunderstood and ignored

[rancid mirage]

Ngl I don’t play exalted frames bc I like switching weapons through game play also like to pick my toys before heading out

[old charm]

When some of the top streamers don’t understand how melee only works, you can’t really blame the community for being ignorant to it

[old charm]

Carving Mantis as an example has an amazing forward block similar in capabilities to Blind Justice, and breaking the moveset to combo with a block neutral, forward neutral, or neutral is how melee only continuously stays ahead of the rest of the team

Melee only gameplay only works when you’re ahead of your team and killing stuff, if you do it right, you can even beat skilled titania players

Excalibur’s Slash Dash is an important part of that extreme example, fyi

[fierce lark]

"meta" is an acronym meaning Most Efficient Tactic Available, it is an objective truth. it can't be wrong, only people's perception of what it is can

[rancid mirage]

I actually saw a video about viciss mantis like stance right?

[viscid hazel]

Is there anything I can replace smite orokin with?

[old charm]

You’re making a pretty extreme assumption that the world ‘meta’ is used objectively in this context

[fierce lark]

primed reach/gladiator might/organ shatter

[viscid hazel]

tyty

[wary forge]

Just go reach or 60/60 elec or cri damage

[viscid hazel]

tyy

[old charm]

Carving Mantis is a dual sword stance, I primarily use it on Dual Ichor

[violet silo]

exactly, but they haven't encouraged the complexities of mechanics because the current most powerful way to play completely bypasses combos.

[old charm]

But if you run afflictions on dual ichor, there’s another one that’s better with its block neutral

[rancid mirage]

Mmm i am thinking of something else then

[fierce lark]

you mean used correctly? i tend to assume people use words correctly yes

[wary forge]

Ur really not gonna needs faction other then level cap really that should be doing to much dmg

[old charm]

What is the most powerful way to run melee then?

[rancid mirage]

Prob influence glaive

[old charm]

Lol

[violet silo]

currently, influence light attack spamming or slam
generally influence

[old charm]

So what you’re saying is the dozen scenarios where I 1v1’d in SP Faceoff a Titania or Wukong LR5 PC player running slam builds with Dual Ichor vortex and afflictions Exalted Blade doesn’t matter?

[rancid mirage]

Well ig its not most powerful in terms of dmg but its most efficient

[fierce lark]

if you want damage magislam

if you want nuke falcfluence (or nami solo)

[violet silo]

faceoff is an irrelevant gamemode for how something performs in almost all content

[fierce lark]

or harmony/hate for raw damage

[rancid mirage]

I think sampos might better slam bc slam wave doesn’t get nerfed by low height

[old charm]

And in the use of ‘meta’ its entirely based on what is currently well known as the best, which is almost always going to have a gap to the objective best that someone hasn’t found yet

[fierce lark]

this is the first time in my warframe career that ive ever heard someone say "well i won with it in faceoff" as a means to back their argument

[violet silo]

true

[old charm]

Sp faceoff is a proper drag race between teams, when its a 1v1, its a straight up competition between builds

[rancid mirage]

Since something better can be discovered anytime, then does that mean meta is not a thing?

[violet silo]

not really

[old charm]

Pretty much, at least the way it seems to be used as some objective truth

[fierce lark]

orrrr it's a competition between who has better gamer juice reflexes

or it's a competition between who has a better pc

or it's a competition between who gives a shit more

like lol

[old charm]

So you’re saying there’s a skill component of ‘meta’?

[opal leaf]

If you're thinking of General Meta

That doesn't exist

Only in certain specific situations

[old marsh]

definitely a build discussion going on

[rancid mirage]

No

[fierce lark]

no im saying using faceoff vs xrandomgamerguy is not deterministic of whether something is meta or even good, lol

[old charm]

That’s why I’m not using a sample of 1 as an example, but at least a dozen to come to my conclusion

[violet silo]

I really do love it when my "straight up competition between builds" has randomized objectives, powerups, and debuffs

[old charm]

And we’re talking tryhard SP faceoff, not random casual hopping in

[rancid mirage]

theres always specific specialized build for different applications generalization and optimization can hardly coexist when wf is multi layered game

[tidal parrot]

sp face off is casual tho

[old charm]

The objectives between groups are the same

[opal leaf]

Yeah that's what I said

General Meta doesn't exist, only in certain & in specific Situations

[old marsh]

We need lvl cap face off 10k standing for each win

[violet silo]

in the case of melees, there kinda is a general meta actually

sometimes something is so overwhelmingly powerful that it forces there to be a general meta because almost nothing else compares

[fierce lark]

if you want to kill more than 1 enemy you equip big incarnon sword or smol shocky glaive with influence

if you want to kill 1 enemy you equip pregnant scythe or angry scythe or big hammer

[old charm]

When it comes to drag racing builds in Warframe, SP Faceoff isn’t perfect, but its the best we got. Otherwise it could just be who gets to enemies faster and/or makes the right guess on direction

[opal leaf]

In a sense yeah, but then you have Rifles that can outperform a Meler

Soo ya

Or able to outperform melee

[violet silo]

right now, influence forces there to be a general meta for melees because of how much better it is than almost everything else in terms of kpm

[rancid mirage]

Its js that they are speaking in specific situations (I am assuming) and one guy is saying new method can always be discovered anytime so meta doesn’t exist so I was asking about that. It was never does general meta exists or not

[fierce lark]

also there's contagion zaw stuff that i don't know anything about

[old charm]

Exodia contagion is still a monster, its a fairly common tool to insta kill the babaus in SP faceoff

[fierce lark]

if a new method is discovered for something and it is accurately tested to be better than existing methods, it becomes the meta

[tidal parrot]

i think the problem with your comparison is that face off is its own sub genre of meta that is different to a majority of the game and since this is a pve game before a pvp game most of the builds are look at in the context of how they preform there where the influince slop and slam stuff tends to be easier and overall better for most things

[fierce lark]

meta is just defiend as being the most effective way to do something

[violet silo]

not really tbh
rn, influence outperforms pretty much any rifle in aoe output

[old charm]

SP faceoff isn’t really PVP, its a similar PVEvP to like WoW Raiding since you’re competing with your group for dps/hps

[rancid mirage]

yea I mean thats what I thought too but then if someone is gate keeping method then ppl who arent up to date w info, doesnt have meta set up?

[tidal parrot]

i mean ig but it still doesnt change my point in that its its own sub genre that doesnt really fall into the same meta of the actual game basically

[violet silo]

it's hard for something meta to stay niche
if it is actually the best possible thing, multiple people will find it

[old charm]

Its a benchmark that can be used to measure builds, just like KPM in a specific tile/mission

With a pretty high skill factor in comparison

[violet silo]

not really

[tidal parrot]

just because something can be a benchmark doesnt mean it should be a bench mark, the benchmark for kpm iirc is like the one survival mission on kuva fortress on sp not face off

[rancid mirage]

I mean ig most of stuff have been assumption but have you seen the ‘new’ dark sword slam?

[fierce lark]

it would only be an accurate benchmark if you could clone yourself and perform at an identical skill level and with an identically accurate process while using both builds

[old charm]

I’ve done a lot of SP Faceoff, enough to get all the rewards I want, including all the mods, and have done a ton of 1v1’s because of the way it queues. The difference between a regular SP Faceoff player and one who doesn’t is losing in the 3rd round or the 1st round. Its not as good of a benchmark for build comparison because of how extreme the skill factor is, but it is still a benchmark

[violet silo]

like I said, randomized specific objectives that dont translate well into general gameplay, power ups and debuffs, different players with very different motivation levels, faceoff just isn't a good metric dude

[pliant kite]

what would be better for Dagath if I was focusing on her as a weapon platform, Xata's or Roar?

[old charm]

I’ve done this and have a video on it, between my Null Star Afflictions and Universal Fallout Influence. Turns out, Exalted Blade builds just work better since you can kill jammers through walls, influence or not

[tidal parrot]

just because something can be a benchmark doesnt mean it should be

[violet silo]

you are the only one I have ever seen take faceoff this serious
that should tell you something

[old charm]

When you do buildcrafting, all you have is benchmarks. Otherwise how do you find out if that archon shard is better than another?

And there’s people like me who enjoy spending my entire time playing this game testing that kind of stuff

[tidal parrot]

benchmarks for stuff are their kpm (taveuni sp) or how well they preform at level cap (omni cascade)

[rancid mirage]

There is this weapon called dark sword that was in game since 2012 and majority of ppl didn’t know its slam does like dmg cap number until recently so does that statement about multiple ppl finding it still hold true?

[violet silo]

actual controlled testing

[old charm]

Yup, I use those, but my ‘kpm’ test is usually SP saturn titan survival

[violet silo]

it isn't the best for anything tho, so what's your point

[old charm]

Describe that then, and if you’re going to say ‘simulacrum’ I’ll tell you now, you can’t rely on that as a replacement for real world testing

[violet silo]

kpm testing in the same map, same objective, same player, but with different builds

[opal leaf]

Ah OK gotcha

[old charm]

You mean the same tile configuration as well? So you’re doing that every time?

[tidal parrot]

similacrum with like 210 sp corrupted gunners/eximus baubaus, if they die quickly its good otherwise i need to tweak my build. for level cap generally i just feel it out and trial by fire it

[opal leaf]

Hmm

Guess I can agree

[rancid mirage]

I am saying “ppl will eventually find it bc we all play the game” seem like non sense when lot of things get discovered after more than a decade

[old charm]

This is one benchmark out of like a dozen I use, since you can’t rely on this exclusively to compare

[violet silo]

that is generally a FAR more reliable metric than faceoff is

[old charm]

And even then, there’s things that don’t work the same in simulacrum, even just testing interactions

But I do spend a ton of time in simulacrum

[old charm]

You’re making it seem like benchmarking a build when tuning it involves single situations, I’m literally talking about a dozen scenarios, SP faceoff being one, as well as KPM testing in a controlled tileset

[tidal parrot]

i mean you really can, in like 99.999999999999999999999999999% of this game you are working with people not against them so as long as you can kill the tankier stuff relatively quickly then your doing just fine, you dont need to make everything kill everything instantly, and testing stuff in situations with high variability (face off) is not a good benchmark... because of the high variability..... that most warframe content doesnt have

[old charm]

Obviously you don’t have to do all that if you’re never going to use it in SP Faceoff, but I buildcraft around universality

[violet silo]

again if something is the best, people will quickly find out that it is better than literally anything else
so many melees can hit damage cap rn, one sword isn't relevant compared to however many others

[tidal parrot]

sp faceoff is not a normal benchmark, thats why no one uses it as a benchmark, because its not a normal benchmark that actually matters to a majority of people

[old charm]

I don’t buildcraft for the highest numbers, I hit the order of magnitude necessary for level cap and regularly sacrifice power for QoL or defensive capability

[old charm]

That’s perfectly fine, but that doesn’t mean its not a valuable benchmark, even if you don’t play SP faceoff

Especially buildcrafting around universality

[violet silo]

it isn't a valuable benchmark. there are way more independent variables in faceoff than there should be in an experiment.

[old charm]

That’s why with every other situation, including KPM testing in survival, you need more than one sample

[tidal parrot]

bro. if you dont play a game mode, then it makes it SIGNIFICANTLY less valuable of a benchmark, considering i can sit in face off queues for several minutes to probably 15-30 easiley before getting a match as well as the general lack of any type of content where your competing against other tenno, its legit just a nothing burger benchmark for almost everyon other than ig you and whoever else actually plays face off

[rancid mirage]

Lot of things can hit dmg cap but the difference between popular weapons and not is how much investment its required. You saying lot of melee can dmg cap doesn’t rlly mean much in current context.

Also js dont respond if there’s nothing new to add on…

[old charm]

You could go to the same tile everytime in SP survival and still have dramatic differences in spawn rate because of connecting tiles

[old charm]

So you’re admitting that its valuable?

[tidal parrot]

no the opposite actually but ig if you blur out 90% of my message you can make that out

[old charm]

Significantly less valuable =/= worthless

[tidal parrot]

yea, its valuable, for the 2 people who play the gamemode, but for everyone else its practially worthless

[old charm]

I have a pretty good intuition between how often i do titan, saturn for SP survival and how that translates all the way to level cap in omnia sp void cascade. That’s treated me nicely in mitigating how often I’m having to go to level cap to validate things

I don’t think I’ve bothered trying to hit integer cap on Excalibur in like 4 years because of how overkill even hitting in the millions is for base level SP grineer

[cedar root]

is this good? i know verglas is, i mean the stats

[crisp pine]

Anyone here to suggest making a volt that is not this build-this thing was old Eildon hunter build? (making it SP/level cap ready?)

[old charm]

ty Jade shadows rework

[old charm]

If you want to use it for shivering contagion

[old charm]

If you’re rolling verglas rivens, the things to look for is multishot, heat, and critical chance

There’s a niche set of rivens for Verglas Prime specifically that if you get >257.2% critical chance, which requires a +2/-1 roll with something like heat or multishot, its basically the groll for verglas since it’ll let you get 50% cc% for Tenacious Bond

[violet silo]

you said that people could gatekeep entire metas. I am telling you that isn't true because there are so many people testing builds and looking at new content to find the most optimal ways to play. providing a random melee that can do something that plenty of melees can already do isn't a relevant counter to my argument because it's not a meta and is not more optimal than what we really have. that's not what these people are looking for.

[quiet laurel]

-CD kills the riven
you want ms, fr, cc, cd
verglas also one of those weapons you'd ideally want a 2 statter on since you can reach enough crit chance for tenacious bond with just a riven if you roll a decent grade on a 2 statter

[old charm]

Otherwise you could roll just a ms/cc/heat/-something riven for verglas and use the cc% mod to get >50%, its just not as optimal with how crowded it gets trying to get heat bias and 50% cc%

[rancid mirage]

Yea, I am also fine as long as i can kill it things without struggling, I prefer to have a build that does ok dmg without having guardian shell as primary survival method bc I dedicated all my build space into hitting as much dmg as possible

[tidal parrot]

icl only important roll really for a verglas riven is cc for tenacious bond realistically, otherwise its just genericly decent things for a status beam

[old charm]

Verglas Prime is something I should make a dedicated video on tbh

[cedar root]

i hit damage cap already with verglas so now i have a riven, damage should go up

[old charm]

100%, I’m probably one of the few people who make youtube guides that actually builds for universality and not some clickbaity bs to just hitting the biggest numbers. If my build works in SP survival but then goes to exterminate and doesn’t have enough energy economy, I reevaluate. I even buildcraft around Sorties and energy restrictions

That obviously includes convenient and simple survivability

That doesn’t ruin the gameplay experience like playing around rolling guard 24x7

Or shield gate spamming, yuck

[quiet laurel]

yuuuuck, so bad fr

[cedar root]

i like those builds with only main mods, so u fill in the rest based on what u enjoy

[old charm]

If you’re looking for an extremely versatile Excalibur melee only build, I have a guide for that which is level cap viable without having to run Warrior’s Rest nor a subsume or Blind Rage and has a free mod slot

It can either use exalted blade or not without making slash dash standalone worthless

[rancid mirage]

Alr I will go check it out later

[inner raptor]

paris vs dread in combat not stat sticking

[old charm]

I use Paris Prime with a blast only setup with its special healing exilus mod right now in my current test build for excalibur persistence. Dread is probably more generally useful though

[quiet laurel]

both have their uses

[inner raptor]

stat sticking pets yep

[quiet laurel]

though dread is more universally useleful with its augment

[inner raptor]

oh yeah i forgot about the augment

[old charm]

The special Exilus mod is definitely more niche than unseen dread or w/e its called

[inner raptor]

so basically 4.75x crit with crepuscular

[old charm]

Jabulahbadad or w/e that paris prime exilus mod is called, idc enough ot remember its name

[inner raptor]

5.95 with tenacious

[quiet laurel]

paris having a dps based exilus is really good but since its status based you really want grouping with it

[inner raptor]

wait i remembered i dont have split flights yet ;-;

[tidal parrot]

just put split flights on and shot gun stuff but dread incarnon is more crit stuff while paris is more status (unless against undamaged enemies)

[timber sparrow]

bhisaj bal

i dont use the paris and i know the name

[mighty flare]

paris usually wins in most cases, dread needs invis setup to compete

[tidal parrot]

dread looks cooler there for its better

[old charm]

I wouldn’t look at it that way, I would look at unseen dread as a better form of utility with its stealth versus the healing from paris

Otherwise they’re both heat incarnon bows, one with giga status and one with giga crit

[cedar root]

got a new roll

[old charm]

What are you trying to use verglas for?

[cedar root]

wisp or oraxia

[tidal parrot]

lowk crit chance or bust icl

[cedar root]

thats why i like fire rate

[old charm]

Like a heat/viral setup or cold or what?

[cedar root]

viral heat

[old charm]

Then you want heat on the riven

[tidal parrot]

multishot > status chance for beams iirc

[quiet laurel]

no crit chance roll means endo

[cedar root]

yeah, i need to get more kuva to roll more but i get what i need

[old charm]

If you don’t have primed shred, that riven drops into that spot at least

You still get punch through with elementalist if you dont have it, definitely should be using that mod

[blazing quiver]

bhisaj bal
idk how i remember that

[old charm]

That sounds right 😄

[cedar root]

thats what im running, replaced it with my primed shred

[blazing quiver]

btw
what about cinta?

[old charm]

You do want to use 90% heat, 60/60 heat, fired up, and then only 60/60 cold/toxin

[blazing quiver]

is cinta basically nataruk side kick?

[old charm]

I never really liked it, so haven’t tried it much after it came out

I found it not as fun as nataruk

My like top 6 primaries might all be bows, but that’s also with like 70% of my gametime having primaries and secondaries unequipped

[blazing quiver]

based
i have broken war at 35% used weapon still

[old charm]

I have used Paris Prime and Dread since the beta, using their incarnons as well

[blazing quiver]

mained melees practically from mr6 to mr 16

[opal leaf]

What about.. The boom bow Nataruk?

[old charm]

Its fun and nice until you get dread or paris prime incarnon

[blazing quiver]

Hm
ngl dread and its pizza cutter based invis don't really sound like its any handy to use

[old charm]

Those are just so powerful, nataruk hasn’t felt the same since jade shadows, even trying to build it for blast

[opal leaf]

[inner raptor]

has there been a glaive or sniper rifle incarnon

[tidal parrot]

sniper rifle incarnon soon iirc, no glaive

[opal leaf]

Well I know Dread is fire tbh

It has inf punch through right?

[blazing quiver]

Sniper soon

[inner raptor]

thats racist

[old charm]

I switched to melee only back in the beta which is why I bought the founder pack, so I could go full stamina with super jump on Excalibur

[blazing quiver]

glaives are on incarnon power level anyway

[opal leaf]

I mean glaives are powerful enough on their own

[tidal parrot]

both dread and paris have incarnon have heat, think they both have inf body pt

[opal leaf]

Oh like Nataruk

[rancid mirage]

Lowk ppl are hyped for stug but my attention is on vectis

[tidal parrot]

YES BRO

[blazing quiver]

as for me i got my ass compressed by grineer back in 2017 in 20 fps...and so far only returned now

[tidal parrot]

STUG INCARNON PLEASE

[blazing quiver]

o

[old charm]

And now you can do better than that on an iphone 😄

[blazing quiver]

that 75mm will slap with incarnon

[blazing quiver]

fair
plus i assume iphones heat management is as bad as ever

[mighty flare]

cinta stronger than nataruk if you're hitting heads

[blazing quiver]

sadly though last patch somehow made open world and survivals lag abit

[blazing quiver]

Thats lovely then

[inner raptor]

just play underwater smh

[old charm]

17 Pro OP heat management

[tidal parrot]

trust me i am so ready

[blazing quiver]

[old charm]

That would be an effective strategy

[blazing quiver]

probably costs as much as initial pay in in flat credit

[blazing quiver]

cumgun incarnate

[old charm]

I actually swapped to iPhone recently spending about 90% of my smartphone life on android because of how good the 17 pro heat management is. Run Warframe extremely well

[blazing quiver]

i can't afford any new iphones

here they cost like LITERALLY prebuilt 3060 rigs

like sheesh i d rather get said rig than iphone

got no pc at home at all

[old charm]

Depending on how you use your phone, its probably worth it over a prebuilt 3060 rig

All you need with it is a snap on controller which can be really inexpensive

[blazing quiver]

I dont have any pc at home at all tbh
but fair
with how random prebuilt stuff is..

[blazing quiver]

Controller?damn🗿

i used controllers total of 5 min across my entire life

[rancid mirage]

no wii sports?

[old charm]

I’ve spent a lot of time benchmarking warframe on various computers over the years, and it can run on basically a toaster

[blazing quiver]

never ever had or planned to have

[rancid mirage]

😔

[blazing quiver]

best i had was psp 2008 but this hardly counts lmao

[old charm]

Lol i had a psp back then too

[blazing quiver]

my toaster cant even launch wf xd

its a dustbin compact officr laptop with sub 2gb vram

[old charm]

I do have a video covering performance in warframe, since the game gets very CPU limited

[blazing quiver]

My parents somehow profusely refused to buy me even smallest memcard

"you d play it too much,it d be better if it reset every 2 days"

absurd logic points

while said parents slammed them keys in farming sims in facebook n stuff

[old charm]

Controllers aren’t too bad in warframe with melee only gameplay, I do generally test my builds with a controller on iOS to see how well it translates or if there’s any major issues of note

[blazing quiver]

i m not willingly using that or gyroscope for a phone xD

plus need to get charging port repaired first

[old charm]

Its a better experience than playing warframe on a steam deck for reference

[blazing quiver]

I never had a steamdeck

or never held one in my hands or knew anyone with it

but yeah should be better than oversized psp gameplay

steamdecks by looks are absolutely annihilating in terms of straining hand muscles lol

[old charm]

The steam deck ergonomics are far better than my ally x, but they’re both not as great as the backbone pro or mcon I generally use on my iphone 17 pro

[blazing quiver]

W
ngl my child dream was to get tekken umd disc

[blazing quiver]

well
i never ever saw said ally x in my life or never ever saw it behind the glass too infact

ig they arent too popular in russia...or are expensive as f

like genuinely controllers in my mind are the big old clunky ps4 style stuff

kinda cool but...unwieldy by design

annoying to use if its..like not solo game

abd completely alien to touch or kbm

[pastel temple]

Pc controls no diff fr

[old charm]

I’ve spent a little less than a year only using handhelds, whether just the device or docked with an eGPU. A very impressive experience, but is a lot better when using an eGPU and the CPU can boost to its max clock speed without the GPU stealing a ton of power

[blazing quiver]

well

this all is beyond even fantasies for me rn

xd

[old charm]

To make this relevant to builds, the intense melee only playstyle handles controllers just fine, even lower performance just fine on something like iOS

[blazing quiver]

like yeah i m locked to basically pure touch or g*roscope which is even more absurd

[old charm]

Warframe on touch controls is borderline unplayable, its really just useful for quick administrative stuff. You basically need a snap on controller to make it worth playing

[blazing quiver]

well tbh i cant say my contagion slam zaw doesnt handle well enough already
i m using primaries fair amount of time anyway

[blazing quiver]

i mean...that's touch controls in nutshell

[old charm]

I run contagion on a sepfahn type nikana zaw

[blazing quiver]

i m not running nikanas
personal preference

azothane exists and i m fine with that for a nikana

cant care less about dragon/prime nikanas ngl.Moveset is just worse than 1h swords anyway

[old charm]

The nikana zaw combos really well with daikyu amalgam for melee only gameplay, especially now with persistence

[pastel temple]

I love me some health tank saryn with nikana

[old charm]

Have you never tried blind justice stance? Its one of the best stances in the game

[blazing quiver]

yup just problem is i dont want to touch nikanas unless like absolutely knelt and gun to the head

[blazing quiver]

yes
6/10

whatever stance my nami solo hand better imo

[old charm]

Lol, i have a whole video just talking about it for a reason, its foward block in combo with its neutral is just insanely good

[blazing quiver]

Neutrals work very...weirdly inconsistent in touch so i hardly bother with that

[old charm]

The best stances in the game have smooth to combo momentum based movesets, blind justice having one of the best of them

[blazing quiver]

Still tbh
felt like wise razor but with smoother dashes

i d rather wait for two handed nikana new stance(hopefully before 2100)

[old charm]

Idk, the top stances to me are like carving mantis, blind justice, butcher’s revelry, gnashing payara. Ones I can think of quickly

[blazing quiver]

ik daikyu amalgam only works with syam n other whatevernot ones but i wanted myself a shield and sword instead

[old charm]

Any nikana, including zaws

[blazing quiver]

Sadly not two handed so hardest pass xd

azothane is absolutely lovely

[old charm]

Yeah two handed nikanas and dual nikanas arent nikanas

[warm obsidian]

Nourish or Roar for Xaku

[blazing quiver]

moon and sun shoukd be really classified as junk and not melee ngl

like straight up junk class weapon

[old charm]

Yeah its stance is really bad, nothing interesting about it, including forced statuses

[blazing quiver]

I mainly used like....two total of melee types
three*
single/dual swords and hammers

nothing really else
i can't match the sayer there

[lilac robin]

Hi tenno, does anyone have a steel path orthos prime build? 🙏🏻

[tribal swift]

is boar incarnON / Off better with status build or the crit build? pimary crux or primary merciless

[tidal parrot]

riven is elec status chance and range so just replace it with a bane or just raw damage or smthn ig

[inner raptor]

garbage in duviri, garbage outside duviri

[blazing quiver]

yup xd

[tidal parrot]

@lilac robin

[inner raptor]

teshin's weapons are all sorts of garbage

[blazing quiver]

they really feel like they are more antiquated than archwing as whole

[inner raptor]

t-back, orvius, sun and moon

[blazing quiver]

i just run rabvee on a wisp

wisp is my platform for everything xd

[timber sparrow]

wonder if anyone has an evensong build that actualy uses the radial attack with thunerbolt

[blazing quiver]

not bothering witg saryns,hildryns,gyres and other 1000 shades of lavos ngl

valkyr and wisp ftw

[blazing quiver]

currently also koumei ontop of these two

[blazing quiver]

tbh thing is just
my price range is whatever no name brand uncle jao has assembled in china

idk really how well they d interface with my vivo

but true touch is like having your hands dysfunction every like 5/10s

cant even wall latch and even slide shooting takes serious effort

[lilac robin]

gotcha! will try this out thank youu :)

[blazing quiver]

teshin:yay i wouldn't need to peddle it to corpus myself,tenno will do that for me!

[blazing quiver]

well
point here is
any other game android offers is so much worse so touch controls are worth gutting it