lore-discussion

[normal mountain]

Not that he really needs us to "go easy"

[wise quiver]

Exactly, cause right now we really don't know and it just feels...weird. Like, I get the gameplay is power fantasy but the story really doesn't feel as power fantasy as the gameplay. So running into this issue of "we always win" without any real explanation as to why is...bothering me.

[humble sierra]

It'd be interesting if he stole our Light and now there's a timeline where there's a Good Tenno who was able to peacefully resolve their differences with the Orokin and Sentients. We're the violent bad guys.

[loud oriole]

-# its gonna be Ballas again, i guarantee it

[normal mountain]

I mean, if he had an Operator
I don't think he does tho

[stiff fable]

He does not

But before JS he could have

[normal mountain]

No, scratch that
I'm certain he doesn't

[lean garden]

tenno just wait for him to leave before collecting their warframe and sending it to the helminth for repairs

[restive river]

We never gave our light to him though, we have yet to uphold our end of the deal

[humble sierra]

I think that would be unsatisfying, his death was poignant

[stiff fable]

Anyway I'm pretty sure that Stalker is doing the same thing as Teshin

[left parrot]

Yo is there a way to know more of Harrow's story? Or it's through Lyon now

[stiff fable]

Keeping them on their toes by challenging them

[smoky gulch]

Nobody likes a villain that can't stay down

[restive river]

I disagree, the Tenno are incredibly powerful lol

[wise quiver]

Speaking of repairing warframes and recent story stuff, did we ever figure out what that whole self revive thing was about?

[stiff fable]

There's the five page Rell comic

[left parrot]

Link pleaseeeee I love comics

[stiff fable]

Warframes have a built-in revival system

[restive river]

What self revive?

[wise quiver]

Only because of Wally, and yet we keep kicking their teeth in without being told why.

[stiff fable]

Lotus mentioned it during the Mirage quest

[wise quiver]

The end of the Old Peace quest.

[stiff fable]

During Old Peace Adis and you murder each other

[left parrot]

Is there a link to the rell comics?

[stiff fable]

And he elects to make sure one of you survives at least

[stiff fable]

https://www.warframe.com/en/media/comics/rell

[restive river]

Because he’s weakened?? He’s missing his finger which makes him vulnerable
We haven’t actually gone against him directly that much and when we do we beat him via emotions

[stiff fable]

The website

[restive river]

The Tenno’s greatest power has always been empathy, we win not just through might but through heart

[wise quiver]

At the time it was kind of heavily implied that we get the ability to self revive from Adis thus making us immortal and the reason why Ballas couldn't kill us and instead just kicked us into the void.

[stiff fable]

We did not

[humble sierra]

The revive thingy is implied to be from Adis, yes

[left parrot]

Ariga-thank you

[stiff fable]

Again, revival is a Warframe thing

[humble sierra]

Best way to test for sure is to die during the Old Peace before that and see if you can revive

[stiff fable]

You can

[wise quiver]

eh gameplay vs lore...

[restive river]

Warframes have a revival system
The Tenno themselves should just be hard to actually kill

[stiff fable]

Again, it's a Warframe thing

[humble sierra]

Aight my bad

But we definitely do get His Light, which gives us a power boost

[stiff fable]

Ballas just read the evil overlord list and realized he needed to be smarter

[wise quiver]

My thing is we know that at the very least our tenno is immortal for some reason

[restive river]

I heard you died died before you get it but I don’t think that’s proven lol

[humble sierra]

Somehow our souls are intertwined

[stiff fable]

The Tenno is not immortal, no

[wise quiver]

Uh

[restive river]

The Tenno are very hard to kill, not immortal

[lean garden]

There are other ways of persuasion

there are other ways of control

[restive river]

Mirage’s tenno died
Rell died from old age
There are tenno deaths

[stiff fable]

Lotus emphasizes several times, you're MORE vulnerable after The Second Dream, not less

Stalker genuinely could have killed you

[lean garden]

the goober squad from the interactive old peace teaser

[restive river]

Even with that piece of Wally they’re still a human child

[stiff fable]

Yeah that was rough

[restive river]

Rip goober squad, you will be missed
Can’t wait to use that funky radiation on Wally

[strange plinth]

-# tbf they were trapped in slightly more mortal bodies

[wise quiver]

Cool, cool, then uh...gestures to new war

[stiff fable]

Again, evil overlord list

[wise quiver]

I mean cmon, Ballas literally says he knows he can't kill us and kicks us into the void instead.

[restive river]

The Tenno are hard to kill not immortal

[stiff fable]

The Tenno had survived a bunch of things that should have killed them

[wise quiver]

Okay my guys, if it takes kicking someone into another dimension because you can't kill them otherwise they're immortal.

[lean garden]

The way to kill tenno isnt by destroying their physical body

[strange plinth]

he also yells about 'hell not being hot enough to split them' later

[restive river]

And yet
Rell
Or Mirage’s Tenno if you prefer a non-old age example

[stiff fable]

Let me put it this way

If Ballas had drugged you and launched you into the sun, you'd be dead

[restive river]

Enough pain to go brain dead might do it

[stiff fable]

He wanted you out of the way asap

[restive river]

Why didn’t he do that is he stupid

[stiff fable]

yes actually

[restive river]

[wise quiver]

I'm not sure if that was Mirage's Tenno or just mirage themself, not every warframe had a tenno remember.

[stiff fable]

He didn't finish reading the evil overlord list

[restive river]

It was her Tenno, Lotus literally mourns her.

[wise quiver]

As for Rell, Rell wasn't the protagonist.

[restive river]

But he was a Tenno, like us.

[lean garden]

did nobody record down in the wiki the interactive teaser?

[wise quiver]

No, he was a Void Demon, not a Tenno. Tenno are those who were trained by margulis.

[stiff fable]

But no seriously Ballas's plan would have worked if not for Wally putting a finger on the scale

[restive river]

Ofc we’re going to have plot armor, that’s not actually indicative of anything lol

[stiff fable]

Whut

No, Rell was a Tenno

[strange plinth]

lotus was involved, lotus is not known to have controlled any sentient warframes, just tenno

[wise quiver]

Rell's whole story is about how he wasn't trained like the rest of the tenno.

[restive river]

We found em
One of the Tenno in the comic who treated Rell poorly

[stiff fable]

What

No.

[strange plinth]

tenno are survivors of the zariman. there's no extra step needed

[wise quiver]

Margulis literally kicked him out XD

[stiff fable]

Rell was a Tenno, he had a Warframe, he survived the 10-0

Margulis moved him to keep us from murdering him

[lean garden]

The Tenno has been made aware of Rell, a fellow Tenno who was outcast by his peers.

• Operator Report

[restive river]

He still had a piece of Wally
He was still aboard the Zariman
Just because he didn’t learn the Tenno ways does not make him a “Void Devil”.
Drifter didn’t have any of that and they’re still a Tenno by definition.

[lean garden]

eeeeh, thats nowhere to be found

[smoky gulch]

Ballas figured out player's Tenno has plot armour and decided best course of action is to yeet them out of narrative

[humble sierra]

Yeah it's more implied Margulis kicked him out because he wouldn't shut up about MITW and she didn't want him to scare the other Tenno with the truth

[smoky gulch]

Too bad player, like a mosquito, found another host to latch onto

[stiff fable]

lol

[restive river]

The truth that she thought was void madness

[stiff fable]

Yeah Ballas's plan worked absolutely

Except the universe mulligan'd

[restive river]

The Operator Report makes it sound like he sent them into their own past on purpose iirc

[smoky gulch]

Wasn't there also thingy where Rell blasted Margulis eyes off?

[restive river]

Not that I will pretend to know how he did that lol

[glacial bough]

Potentially just to distinguish it from the lab. But Christ, I finally found the line, and it's a freaking idle. Roathe talking about how the Void is useful for creating an endless amount of rooms.

[stiff fable]

That's a popular fan theory

[restive river]

We don’t know if that was him, it’s actually said more times that it was just the Tenno in general

[stiff fable]

It's almost certainly either Rell or our character

[humble sierra]

Yeah ballas has no way of knowing that. He just thought "hey I'll injure them and toss them into the void, no way they'll be safe"

[wise quiver]

Okay, so, you're saying our Operator isn't immortal, and that warframes have a self revive system. So the whole revive thing at the end of The Old Peace were we get Adis' light and revive our operator...was just a one off thing?

[stiff fable]

Basically

Like, it left traces behind

[restive river]

Yeah no that’s about Albrecht’s labs, not the cathedral

[wise quiver]

It's so heavily implied otherwise though

[stiff fable]

Adis is with us, forever

[loud oriole]

https://tenor.com/view/moe-simpsons-barney-e-moe-gif-23054386

[restive river]

Maybe he thought about it REALLY hard

[humble sierra]

We almost actually died, Adis just used his own life to revive us

[stiff fable]

But it didn't give the player immortality

[humble sierra]

Ngl that giant void beam could go hard as an Operator 4th

[stiff fable]

Adis used his power to revive those near death on us

[restive river]

Yes
Whenever our Tenno dies in a mission they don’t revive like that
You can see this in any quest where it’s just your Tenno for the mission

[wise quiver]

Like it makes so much sense considering how many other tenno die and yet we are so difficult to kill that Ballas has to play 4d chess to kick us into a void hole to try and stop us.

[stiff fable]

that's just transcendence before TWW

[stiff fable]

Fwiw Ballas pulled the same trick on Kullervo

And he never saw Kullervo again

[wise quiver]

Thus my confusion, I genuinely believed that our deal with Wally made us 'immortal' due to eternalism. That basically every time we 'die' we just swap places with another alternative reality self or something.

[lean garden]

I mean, if warframes dont have a self-revive system

Lotus: "I sensing another Void imprint. It's dark. I see the glow of restraints around the Waframe. I'm trying to surge the revive system but I can't, I'm too far away. A great, faceted eye watches her."

what was lotus surging then?

[lean garden]

oh nah no d4c type shit

[restive river]

Nope, that’s a fan theory

[stiff fable]

Afaik DE's said that the operator doesn't die in missions

[restive river]

And now i’ve been spoiled 😔

[wise quiver]

I'm not saying they don't, I'm saying that Adis gave us an infinite use one.

[stiff fable]

He didn't tho

[wise quiver]

Not mechanically no.

[strange plinth]

and warframes are fairly easy to kill, considering most of the gen 1s were hunted down

[stiff fable]

Because you can get sent to the Zanuka program

[restive river]

If you die in the sacrifice when you’re just your tenno you don’t revive like the frame does, you revive via the void, somehow

[humble sierra]

So there's a scrawling "Blinded, you cast him out" which refers to Margulis being blind literally and metaphorically, and thus she kicked Rell out, which makes people thing Rell was also the one to accidentally blind her.

More recent stuff seems to imply it's specifically the Player who did that-- like Rus-wall-ka taunting it during Isleweaver

[stiff fable]

Fairly easy to kill with other Warframes or an army

[restive river]

Which to be clear this is a very hyper specific likely for gameplay only thing, we may not even be dying but instinctually retreating into the void

[stiff fable]

Wait lol there's an Operator mod that does that

[restive river]

Iirc our tenno never reaches 0 health

[restive river]

Whuh

[lean garden]

Drifter: Whatever you call it, whatever the explanation, I'm kind of living proof that consciousness exists without a body, yeah.

We are just more than a body.

Too bad ballas didnt have the radiation from the interactive prelude otherwise we'd be cooked

[stiff fable]

Er, the prime sure footed one

[strange plinth]

point still stands. if he can survive kullervo, he can get together whoever to kill him
but he tossed kullervo into the void instead

[stiff fable]

If you'd be knocked down you're booted to void mode instead

[smoky gulch]

Welp, I guess I need more time with Isleweaver

[restive river]

I watched a friend play the second dream recently and her being blinded by the tenno is mentioned there
It was just a tenno in general, not Rell

[restive river]

OH YEAH
Yeah that may be what’s happening in quests

A less smooth version anyway

[humble sierra]

Yeah, I'm just saying the wall scrawling is what made people think it's Rell

I think it makes sense if it's specifically us though

We do literally everything ever

[restive river]

I could see it

[humble sierra]

unlike margulis

[restive river]

):

[stiff fable]

I like to think it's Rell because then another Tenno actually does something to impact the plot even when we're around

[humble sierra]

)

[restive river]

She was maybe ableist so

[restive river]

Evil

[humble sierra]

Evl (no eyes)

[stiff fable]

Lmfao

[strange plinth]

-# wall scrawling + the "mm, my fault." line right after you see it

[radiant pier]

okay wait

[restive river]

👩‍🦯 this is who you talkin to

[radiant pier]

that's 100× better than just harassing us while looking after a kid

[stiff fable]

haha

[radiant pier]

I will take that as my canon

[stiff fable]

In the Roman Empire, famous generals would be given a ceremony called the Tribute

[radiant pier]

I'll stop calling him a jobless deadbeat bum with an obsession

[restive river]

To be clear
I’m legally blind

[stiff fable]

They'd get a giant parade through the city and be crowned king for a day

[smoky gulch]

Fun fact: Khora Prime is made after Margulis' exeution, right? Do note how in-universe Ballas keeps her memory alive with effigy wearing blinding veil as it controls a beast

[stiff fable]

It was the ultimate power trip

[restive river]

Wait wasn’t Khora around for the Old Peace?

[stiff fable]

The Roman Senate hated the idea of kings though, and so they'd assign their temporary king an Auriga

[restive river]

Actually horrifying omg lol

[strange plinth]

mhm, she's one of the warframes used by the Interactive group

[humble sierra]

Yeah assuming the Histories of Tau thingy was set before the quest

[radiant pier]

did we ever see what that looked like? the burned eyes of Margulis

[stiff fable]

The Auriga's job was to stand behind the man of the hour and every so often lean over and whisper into his ear

[restive river]

So she can’t have been made after the execution, but rather just in her image

[wise quiver]

Yes, the end of The Old Peace.

[restive river]

It is

[stiff fable]

"Remember that you are mortal, and that one day you will die"

[radiant pier]

wait when

[stiff fable]

That's Stalker now

[humble sierra]

Yeah in the quest, as well as this freezeframe, and you can buy it as a skin

[radiant pier]

OH

oh that flashed for like a second, no?

[restive river]

Yeah

[strange plinth]

one frame

[radiant pier]

IT'S A SKIN? WHY?

[restive river]

When we plug back in

[humble sierra]

Yeah but she also had like a whole scene at the end of the quest

[restive river]

Funny

[humble sierra]

And briefly appeared in the background on your first time in the academy

[wise quiver]

capitalism baby~

[humble sierra]

Crazy how she's the cheapest skin

[glacial bough]

The line wouldn't track then, why would Roathe be talking about creating rooms in the labs while in the Cathedral if they were separate places. But I also did find what made me think of was a KIM line, Roathe establishing that the Triad are confined to a "replica crypt"

[restive river]

Open your peely pix

[humble sierra]

Even cheaper than the halloween recolor

[stiff fable]

That reminds me I need to buy Eidolon Lotus

[humble sierra]

My personal fav

[smoky gulch]

Yeah, the prime was made as Ballas' way of coping with loss - man really took liking to one person and remakes her again and again

[radiant pier]

I will never understand those who chose Margulis or Natah

[restive river]

Then why have the XX99?

[stiff fable]

It's such a killer look

[wise quiver]

Wait, I thought Hildryn was Ballas tribute to Margulis...

[humble sierra]

Hildryn is Ballas' tribute to Rhea Ripley

[stiff fable]

Hildryn was Ballas's personal bodyguard

[strange plinth]

the prime is used in the Interactive, though, so it can't be about losing her

[radiant pier]

what're yall's timezone

[restive river]

Both may be personalities in her but only one is actually from her choices

[radiant pier]

Lotus 🙂‍↕️

[humble sierra]

UTC+8 I think
literally 12 hours ahead of DE unless there's daylight savings

[stiff fable]

eh tbf all of them are false

[strange plinth]

ballas, this is the third time you've shown the tribute to margulis warframe in class

[restive river]

That doesn’t make sense though, the prime exists during the old peace which is before her execution lol

[glacial bough]

Fun with the UI, playing with the 99 theme of current time travel, etc.

[humble sierra]

Oh, speaking of UI, are there any new themes since the 1999 one?

[stiff fable]

Natah was created to assume Margulis's identity, and the result of her doing so was the Lotus

[radiant pier]

yeah XX99 is kinda tough compared to 1899

[restive river]

Or it’s just time travel???

[smoky gulch]

Hmmm, so Khora Prime trailer goes anachronistically now?

[stiff fable]

However she does ask Teshin not to dead name her, soooooooo

[restive river]

Or DE forgot lol

[stiff fable]

Yeah

[wise quiver]

Actually Roathe says Lotus was a nickname that Ballas gave Margulis.

[smoky gulch]

Most likely

[humble sierra]

Or he was just ruminating on her after Margulis' death

[restive river]

That was really messed up of him ngl

[humble sierra]

Ew

[stiff fable]

That doesn't make it BETTER

[radiant pier]

do we all agree all that chose Margulis are gooners

[restive river]

Reexperienced it recently and damn
Teshin
Why

[restive river]

Not all but most

[stiff fable]

Tbf Teshin's kinda thinking she's plotting to kill the kids

[restive river]

After a thousand years after the war ended?

[stiff fable]

And uh, well, he's 70% wrong but..........

[humble sierra]

MoistCritikal chose Margulis specifically to [censored word but it starts with C and rhymes with Truck] Ballas

[stiff fable]

I'm saying he has a point not that he's right

[wise quiver]

"The Lotus." Cruel, even for Ballas, naming his puppet after that flower... I will never understand what Margulis saw in him. At least the name has come to mean far more than the mockery I'm certain he meant it to be."

[restive river]

LOL

[humble sierra]

Natah would be the puppet, no?

[wise quiver]

Hmm, maybe.

[lean garden]

nah rebb panicked when asked why khora was there

[wise quiver]

So, considering Voruna's lore...how do we feel about Voruna Prime?

[stiff fable]

That's what I mean yeah

[humble sierra]

Garuda lore delayed 2028 while they fix that plothole

[stiff fable]

All three of her identities were imposed on her

[radiant pier]

can you imagine being Margulis at the time and seeing Khora

[stiff fable]

The only moral choice is the explanation that speaks to you

[humble sierra]

Her descriptions almost sound like she was Primed after her the events of her Leverian... which is strange

[stiff fable]

Do you believe in projecting power, in expressing a new kindness, or reaffirming the balance?

[wise quiver]

She would have to be or else DE would have to retcon Voruna's lore, which is more set in stone than Valkyr's admittedly.

[humble sierra]

Actually maybe it was Entrati who did it

[stiff fable]

Ballas narrates the trailer

[lean garden]

nah given voruna P's job scope its ballas

[humble sierra]

Wait no he stopped time travelling before the Night of Naga drums anyways

[stiff fable]

So he did it

[wise quiver]

Because remember, Voruna only got those 4 dogs on her body because of the Kuva during the last yuvan theatre thing.

[radiant pier]

the equivalent of your washed-up gooner ass ex making a replica of you

[stiff fable]

A lot of the prime trailers are actually talking about the base version tbh

Ballas doesn't name the prime, he names the original

[strange plinth]

what are her descriptions? i saw something about it on reddit a while ago but didn't look into it

[stiff fable]

Protea is the best example, Protea was a special job for Parvos, no other base models were made

[radiant pier]

who was the one that laughed during their warframification

[stiff fable]

Mirage

[strange plinth]

mirage

[radiant pier]

baller

[strange plinth]

-# no it was ballas /s

[stiff fable]

https://tenor.com/view/boo-boo-this-man-mad-angry-gif-16849857

[wise quiver]

I just remember Ballas being butthurt over Revenant.

[stiff fable]

Interesting

[radiant pier]

how're yall's Voruna Prime farming

[wise quiver]

Ooo, that last one is real telling.

[stiff fable]

Btfo'd

[humble sierra]

Took like 5 hours

[stiff fable]

All my axis gone

[strange plinth]

mm, her description doesn't say much but her weapons point to post-leverian, yea
there was a theory about voruna prime being made by ballas to hunt down high-value targets during the naga drums using those descriptions and the prime trailer narration

[humble sierra]

as in I worked for a shift and got the money to buy her

[stiff fable]

And actually that's extra funny because it sounds like a bored apes joke, I will keep it

[radiant pier]

in trades or the prime bundle?

[humble sierra]

Prime Bundle

[strange plinth]

2/4 in a few hours yesterday and haven't yet done anything today (massive headache,,,)

[radiant pier]

the chassis was somehow the hardest to farm

[humble sierra]

Oh and her Syandana says this but doesn't really provide more info

[radiant pier]

I had to trade for it because I was getting lazy

[radiant pier]

these cosmetics

[strange plinth]

yea that's more flavor than lore

[radiant pier]

will they ever come back?

[humble sierra]

And her Ephemera which I think also does sound like the Priming was an attempt to tame her

[stiff fable]

Sometimes there's lore there

[radiant pier]

and can they be bought with plat

[humble sierra]

Yeah, when they Resurge, you can buy the cosmetics with Regal Aya

[stiff fable]

Caliban helmet

[strange plinth]

for regal aya when she eventually goes into resurgence

[humble sierra]

Not plat

[stiff fable]

Not plat, but they do return

[radiant pier]

oh that sucks 💔

[stiff fable]

But you need real $$$

[radiant pier]

hey doesn't baro come back every 2 weeks why's his icon back

[stiff fable]

Special Baro resurgence

[strange plinth]

compensation for iOS outage

[humble sierra]

iOS got bugged over so they're bringing him back with the same wares

[stiff fable]

Yep

[radiant pier]

ooo

[humble sierra]

it's also why the Operation got extended

[stiff fable]

More Loid floofs

[radiant pier]

Apple, please keep screwing over your people

I need baro to come back every week

[stiff fable]

hahaha

[radiant pier]

"ONE MORE SHITTY USELESS UPDATE, COMING RIGHT UP"

ducky

are you plat rich/cosmetic rich

[humble sierra]

Oh and her Sumdali, which again is just flavor

[echo aurora]

did anyone else have a moment of them learning the lore behind the naga drums OST and the vibe changing way more

[stiff fable]

yuuuuuup

[humble sierra]

Warframe so good even the music has lore

Speaking of music, I love the new Awakening theme

[stiff fable]

I have to sit and listen to it

[humble sierra]

And speaking of Awakening, I *NEEEEED* IT as a captura scene

[echo aurora]

that ost from the umbra quest was beautiful

smiles from juran i think

[stiff fable]

Yup

My favorite bit of music lore is that the infestation is so in love with On-lyne they keep repeating their lyrics in the modern era

[wise quiver]

I want the zeloids to return.

[echo aurora]

i thought that song was too dumb and corny at first but its starting to grow on me

the technocyte cannot be stopped

[humble sierra]

I like the IRL lore of how OnLyne started trending and non-players thought it was an actual band

[radiant pier]

is that

[strange plinth]

literal earworm :)

[radiant pier]

is that F2P RED Super Saiyan Rosé Goku Black

[stiff fable]

Tbf we spent a lot of time making up fake timelines for it

[radiant pier]

oh no it's the green Sparking, no?

[stiff fable]

Like the 2013 European reunion tour

[radiant pier]

kind of a banger too ain't gon' lie

[echo aurora]

idk i dont play dokkan i just love goku black

or legends

[radiant pier]

oh

5000 years prison no parole

[echo aurora]

dbfz and xenoverse 2 are better

mobile gaming is for nerds (i play wf on ios)

[radiant pier]

the iOS user calling people nerds

[echo aurora]

and im an ash main

sue me sue me

[smoky gulch]

On-Lyne Coda backplot sounds a bit like a mockery of real life corporates trying to replace people with technological means just to make money making easier

[echo aurora]

does any other veteran player remember the drip feeding of lore and having to watch Stallordd to keep up

It truly added to the amnesiac cosmic-horror experience

[stiff fable]

heh

[glacial bough]

I cannot say given I do not engage with his videos

[radiant pier]

I'll do something worse

I'll leave you be.

for what happened to Ash is worse than any punishment I could ever give one such as you.

[fast dew]

From what I've heard Stallord is. Not the best for accuracy

[stiff beacon]

or the actual urban legend of boybands in the 90's being cloned

[woven coyote]

Tbf none of them ever were

[smoky gulch]

Yeah, that sounds like the direct reference - I might be projecting on this, though I do see some clear distaste towards music industry corporate in narrative there

[radiant pier]

some

most of their quotes are hating on corporate

[restive river]

Which makes me think they forgot lol

[lean garden]

yeap

[stiff fable]

It's ultimately not too important I feel

Unless Ballas said outright "I killed Margulis, time for cat frame" they can retcon and tell us we misunderstood

[strange plinth]

which has already happened at least twice regarding margulis's death

[stiff fable]

This is why you introduce a broad cast of characters

So that you can have lots of things happen to different people in the backstory and have you care about it

this is one and only area where Destiny 2 did something better than Warframe

note past tense

[glacial bough]

I must ask where given there's a difference between a retcon and establishing more detail.

[fast dew]

Retcon does mean both, but the more common usage usually means writing over pre-existing details

[lean garden]

in the proper sense of a retcon, theres not much difference.

but in the normative sense of what a retcon means, a retcon overwrites what happened before, which tends to have a negative connotation.

But sometimes, its not a retcon if the playerbase simply got it wrong

[strange plinth]

afaik, one falls into each
TSD implies that transference + the tenno controlling the frames happens after margulis is executed given the order of the lines
retconned primarily by silver grove, when its established that margulis was alive for long enough to be working on a warframe that's intended to be controlled by an operator
then old peace expands that amount of time to her being executed post-old peace

[stiff fable]

Part of the reason DE isn't sitting down to nail out a hard timeline is so they can get away with this

I don't even mean it in a mean way, if they don't specify details then there can be huge gaps of time in between events for other things to happen

Second Dream makes it pretty clear Margulis is being executed for defending the Tenno and their shenanigans, but Old Peace says that entirely half the war happened first and she went for protecting your Tenno specifically

[drifting scaffold]

is the duviri paradox in a parallel universe?

[tall echo]

it's in the void

[strange plinth]

if you haven't done new war, it'll make more sense after you've done that

[stiff fable]

So, yes but also no

[restive river]

Yesn’t

[tall echo]

purghaps

[zealous coyote]

Hi, I wanted to know, how did ballas go from being the slave of erra to the puppeteer in command? Also, what happened to teshin? Duviri teshin is old after falling in the portal at the end of the first half of the New War, but relay teshin is still young and kicking.

Also, am I allowed to post my fan rewrite of the New War here? I have been brainstorming the things I wish we could have seen to expand upon one of the best quests in the game

[strange plinth]

ballas was never the slave, erra dropped the leash
he was playing the victim

[stiff fable]

Natah is the one who kicked him down, but when Erra showed up Ballas started working his magic

He is, INCREDIBLY charismatic

Very quickly he got Erra to decide that Ballas's plan would work and all they had to use was use Natah to activate Praghasa, no matter how much that damaged Natah

Teshin fell into Duviri and then spent a very long time there

[strange plinth]

as for teshin, he aged.
seems like the cave isn't affected by duviri's loop, so he was just. around

[stiff fable]

Time doesn't exist in the Void, after all

Although, it's mentioned he was badly hurt when he landed

It's possible that recovering from his injuries cost him a lot of his original vitality

Regardless, the events of Duviri Paradox happen AFTER the New War for Teshin, and BEFORE the New War for the Drifter, and IN THE MIDDLE of the New War for Lotus

time travel!

[fleet furnace]

lotus getting her hand chopped off is actually what causes drifter to get loose during the duviri quest iirc

[stiff fable]

yup

[zealous coyote]

Yeah that I know

[stiff fable]

Her hand lands on them and latches on

I think we're still arguing over whether it grows OVER Drifter's hand or splits Drifter's hand in half and replaces it

[fleet furnace]

growing over drifters hand makes more sense to me tbh

[stiff fable]

Also the hand is how you repair Lotus in New War part 2

it's the part of her you're feeding the shards to

[strange plinth]

i'm pretty sure it splits drifter's hand in duviri
but that hand is intact later

[stiff fable]

See?

[zealous coyote]

It definitely splits it apart, why would the drifter's hand dangle around it otherwise?

[strange plinth]

it makes more sense but is not what appears to happen

[zealous coyote]

Cause of the loop resset?

[stiff fable]

deliciously, this implies that the rest of the Lotus either disintegrated into the Void or possibly landed somewhere--or when--else

[strange plinth]

mm, possibly
not sure if we see that hand in the last cutscene post-drifter reset

[zealous coyote]

Ok, but in the second half of New War, teshin isn't here, yet once new war ends, he's back in the relay as if nothing happened

[strange plinth]

he's replaced by a white hologram on the relay

[zealous coyote]

I'd need to check yeah

[fleet furnace]

was gunna say, isnt relay teshing replaced by his spectres?

[strange plinth]

not sure if that's one of the things that spoiler creator mode changes

[zealous coyote]

Oh ok, my bad I didn't actually go to teshin himself, I was passing by to the arbitration

[stiff fable]

if you have creator mode on you see normal Teshin

oh also, it's mentioned that Drifter still has remnants inside of him from Natah's hand

I'm not saying that's confirmation but suddenly I have more questions

[strange plinth]

"One bears the light of Adis. The other, the hand of Natah. You are adapting to our ways."
"For better or for worse, both of you bear Sentient essence within your bodies. This may impress the denizens of Tau... or enrage them."

yeah

[zealous coyote]

I guess the organic hand eventually just rotted away and fell off

[zealous coyote]

Ok but then, why did he hand us the plans to the sword

[strange plinth]

so that we'd make it and bring it to him later

[stiff fable]

he was playing both sides

[strange plinth]

paracesis is the blade he stabs us with, and we brought it straight to him

[stiff fable]

Erra didn't show up until after that, so he would have needed a way out

[rare scarab]

random question is there a canon size and distance from the Zariman Ten-0 and the void from the origin system? also do we know how fast do our ships go when we go to theses places

[stiff fable]

Now, out of universe, Ballas wasn't originally going to be the ultimate villain of The New War

[stiff fable]

The Void isn't a place you go to, it's more of an alternate dimension thing

[zealous coyote]

Do you consider loading times canon?

[stiff fable]

You rip open a portal yourself or find a beacon there

[strange plinth]

zariman's stuck in the hole in the albrecht membrane, which is the barrier between the origin system and the void

[rare scarab]

no

[tall echo]

distance to the zariman, unknown, distance to the void, slightly in the negative

[stiff fable]

As for travel times, "pretty damn fast", but we do have to use the solar rails to travel between planets

[zealous coyote]

Then we don,t have an answer, I think

[rare scarab]

ye ik its own verse

[stiff fable]

It probably takes us a few hours to travel across the entire solar system

[tall echo]

not quite

[stiff fable]

mostly because we're bouncing from rail to rail

[rare scarab]

negative as its inside the origin?

[tall echo]

a little

[gray trench]

I wonder where the rail to Tau is at

[lean garden]

pluto

[zealous coyote]

In railjack, when it turns to a blue vortex, is that the solar rail or a void jump? Or are the solar rails a way to void jump safely?

[stiff fable]

Void Jump

[strange plinth]

was near pluto
became veil proxima

[lean garden]

rails use the void

[stiff fable]

Solar rails are completely safe, yes

[gray trench]

I see

[stiff fable]

well, for a given value of completely

But it's basically the difference between using a Stargate from SG1, or traveling via a much less safe version of the Warp from 40K

[stiff fable]

Specifically, it's the Outer Terminus node on Pluto

[rare scarab]

i forgot there is also the kuva ship also, how big lore wise is that ship

[stiff fable]

Giant asteroid

It takes four of the engines that propel the Formorians

[lean garden]

big

[stiff fable]

Those things are something like 600x the size of the archwing

so the Kuva Fortress is probably about the size of a small moon

maybe the same size as the Zariman, even

[lean garden]

Also just to clarify just in case:

The Zariman

DOES NOT

have the capacity for 80 billion "uncomfortably"

[stiff fable]

lol people say that??

[lean garden]

Yea, saw a youtube comment claiming exactly that

[stiff fable]

wheeeew

[zealous coyote]

I don't think archwing pixel scaling is reliable. In railjack missions, ships are smaller outside than inside

[lean garden]

fricken powerscalers and their shocking inability to actually think about scale

[tall echo]

a hilarious oxymoron

[lean garden]

exactly

[zealous coyote]

their selective ability to think about scale

[tall echo]

nah it's a complete inability

[clever linden]

What do we know about the other Orokin Houses besides House Entrati?

I remembered that Operator said that feudal battles between the houses was commonplace

[lean garden]

none

House Entrati unironically would be quite insulated from all the shenanigans

[humble sierra]

I would like more lore there. Does each House end up under the domain of an Executor?

[lean garden]

evidently not, see: Entrati

[clever linden]

I’m honestly surprised that Albrecht Entrati was not an executioner

I wouldn’t be surprised if he was offered the position, but turned it down

[lean garden]

Dudes the coked up void mad man

[proper barn]

I guess RJ part houses?

[humble sierra]

I think he was viewed like a joke before he "found" the fingers

[proper barn]

That's about it.

[lean garden]

if I were the seven Id heavily hesitate to make him an 8th

[lean garden]

right theyre technically houses

[stiff fable]

oh there were like four of those right

[lean garden]

although not sure whats the difference between them and like production houses lol

[stiff fable]

including Sigma which is lol

I think they were probably production houses that enshrined themselves as nobility

[lean garden]

like are they like Atreides and Harkonnen or are they like Honda and toyota

[stiff fable]

or maybe the other way around, not super important

[proper barn]

I mean like necramechs/fathers weapons are "entrati" make.

So like ShRug.

[clever linden]

Grineer are borderline Harkonen ripoffs

Plus the “no aliens, just mutant humans” thing, and hyperfixation on swords also from Dune

[proper barn]

It's not on swords. It's on sword and guns instead of like super villain super weapons.

Cuz the sentients could hack the like "chickenanator"

[clever linden]

Abominable intelligences

[zealous coyote]

The harkonens don't clone each others no?

[clever linden]

That’s the unique aspects

I meant visually and role as imperial villains

[proper barn]

https://tenor.com/view/phineas-and-ferb-heinz-doofenschmirtz-inator-blow-itself-up-behold-gif-17554315418709125820

[zealous coyote]

It's kind of a huge one, no? If I had to brief someone on the grineer, they're a super human clone empire. Thats closer to star wars' republic than dune's harkonen on the 5 sec pitch

[clever linden]

Too clean and good guys obviously

Grineer also gave space marine similarities

[zealous coyote]

Was it even more techno than what the corpus have right now?

[proper barn]

Yes. Like look at the Zariman.

Like the coprus want the Zariman cuz it has so much Like orokin tech on it.

[humble sierra]

Honda and Toyota, definitely

In 1999 the bikes are made by a company called ZeVilKa or something

So potentially they split into three and thousands of years later they're competitors

[ionic moss]

So what are we talking about? can i join in? I'm not just some glorified calculator after all.

[humble sierra]

Orokin Houses

[ionic moss]

Orokin houses nice, do they have doors?

[humble sierra]

And a severe lack of info on them besides the Entrati

[ionic moss]

What kind of houses?

[humble sierra]

Like Game of Thrones houses

[strange plinth]

more like noble families than literal houses

[ionic moss]

Oh so not houses, more like clans and such nobility.

[strange plinth]

mhm

[ionic moss]

What about them?

[humble sierra]

Just about them

Generally

We know the Entrati, we know they Railjack parts are named after Houses, but that's it

[strange plinth]

this was the original question

[ionic moss]

Well there is other familial clans but those are weapon artisans not quite exactly orokin, but Tenno weaponsmiths

[fast dew]

Yeah? Reckon there's. One for the entrati?

[strange plinth]

Gyre's Vortengeist skin might be related to Petros Vorten, Father/Vilcor's original name
which would imply some manner of importance but is unconfirmed

[fast dew]

Oh, and there's Vorten and the Vortengeist Labs

Possibly, but stil

[ionic moss]

The what?

[fast dew]

Oh, grey already did it

[ionic moss]

That sentence burned my precepts

[fast dew]

Not important enough to not get absorbed by the entrati

[humble sierra]

Gyre deluxe

[fast dew]

Though its hard to get any better than them

[ionic moss]

Oh okay yes the skin appearance

[humble sierra]

The description and name of the skin, rather

[fast dew]

There's. Lore in the description yeah

And we recently found out Vilcor's first name

[humble sierra]

Roathe just loredumping

[ionic moss]

What does the skin description say is it like oh the skin is from this specific lore?

[fast dew]

That being. Petros Vorten

[fast dew]

The design is directly inspired by the Vortengeist Labs or something similar

[humble sierra]

Dagath Vorten goes hard icl

[strange plinth]

no, the vortengeist skin doesn't have proper lore in its description
its just having Vorten in it

[ionic moss]

Ok so its just spectulative

[strange plinth]

mhm

[fast dew]

It really does, and then you got. Her son. Petros.

Like. Stones

[strange plinth]

fr named him after a rock

[fast dew]

Why is he a rock bro

[ionic moss]

I don't want to dive in too hard in the speculative as it isn't a real tangible source of information

[fast dew]

Oh, also I believe son says that Mother married the man who was. Lead in his field

[clever linden]

Are they ever mentioned as houses?

Assuming she’s alive in tau, i believe we will learn about Nitokh’s House. Maybe her whole family is alive like Entrati, but I doubt it. She chose to do nothing in defence of the other Orokin because she was “bored”

[ionic moss]

Its like eternalism

[strange plinth]

-# “Grab the electrical dancer in a form evoking the valves and cables of years past, when science was wild and dangerous.”
-# the vortengeist skin desc

[fast dew]

Why would she possibly be on Tau?

[fast dew]

Perhaps its. The armour

[clever linden]

She was there with Roathe

[fast dew]

Why do folk think she is gonna stay on tau

[strange plinth]

meh, speculation is fun
especially when the topic has so many unknowns
as long as the speculation doesn't become rooted in place

[fast dew]

And stay there even despite her continued existence as a fellow executor?

[clever linden]

Roathe lead the Uriel warframes, who were on Tau as soldiers before the peace treaty was signed

[ionic moss]

Nitohk probably isn't even on Tau again its simply mere speculations my good sirs and madams

[clever linden]

Like Ballas, she may have betrayed the Orokin for the Sentients

[fast dew]

Technology ain't gonna work, the sentients jam shit like that

[fast dew]

..no.

[humble sierra]

Nitokh is definitely being set up for an Arc after/during the Void War though

[strange plinth]

"Experimental Vortengeist technology spawned many curious calibrators and dispersion probes."

[fast dew]

She actively did not care for the sentients lmao

[clever linden]

She doesn’t care for anyone but herself like ballas

[humble sierra]

She cared only for herself. Ballas only joined the Sentients to scorn the Orokin

[fast dew]

Nor would they be tolerant of an orokin

[ionic moss]

@strange plinth thats just speculative skin boogaloo

[humble sierra]

Ballas didn't even like himself at that point

[fast dew]

You saw how hunhow is like

[humble sierra]

He just wanted everyone dead tbh

[clever linden]

But Ballas still saw a reason to betray the otokin for the Sentients: his own ends. She probably did the same

She literally betrayed the Orokin because she was “bored”

[fast dew]

He didn't betray them for the sentients

[clever linden]

He did it for himself

[humble sierra]

Frankyl we don't know what she'd do

[fast dew]

He worked with them yes, but it wasn't out of genuine respect

[clever linden]

I didn’t say it was

[humble sierra]

Our biggest source of info is John Biasman

[ionic moss]

Ballas is a good man

[strange plinth]

the armor was mentioned, so i grabbed the description

[fast dew]

And. I imagine living in their solar system is gonna requrie that

[clever linden]

Anyways

[ionic moss]

My heart will always have a place for ballas

[fast dew]

She's gonna be important later on but I do not think she will be on tau

[clever linden]

Uh I thought we discussed a few days ago that Tau has probably been terraformed to ge habitable for humans due to the Orokin terraforming world-seeders

[humble sierra]

Sentients are still there, and it's only the Orokin hating ones

Because there's no Xenoflora to keep them at peace

[clever linden]

I mean it would be really underwhelming if we go there and it’s the exact same lifeless Rocky nothing we have already seen

[fast dew]

So.

She was still around for the other executors.
She was somehow in tau, the place that got cut off from them
And there's thousands of hostile sentients

[strange plinth]

ah, the alternox skin desc

"An alternative look for the Alternox, inspired by the Vortengeist Laboratories of old."

[ionic moss]

Nitohk is holding the Golden spear

[clever linden]

The “Orokin hating ones” is the faction that Ballas literally worked with

[fast dew]

Hunhow.

Who hates orokin.

[clever linden]

That eventually crowned him as Emperor of Narmer

[fast dew]

Erra is a laughable child

[strange plinth]

Erra is the one in control of the Narmer sentients

[fast dew]

Chances are he wasn't around for the events of the old peace

[stiff fable]

I'd be very surprised if Nitohk got a major arc to herself

[ionic moss]

She probably has, shes one of the seven

[strange plinth]

who is, famously, a "Dax in every way but name."

[stiff fable]

The other four Executors we know of were killed off-screen

[humble sierra]

The Archimedean in Follie's hunt sounds like she's interrogating the Tenno with what happened on the Zariman and the MITW. If Nitokh is backing her, it means Nitokh has an interest there

[stiff fable]

Nitohk is important to Roathe, and shows up in one piece of graffiti

[clever linden]

And that detail confused me but I think I’ve figured it out: according to Roathe, the Sentients didn’t just want to protect Tau, they wanted to destroy the Orokin and replace them as leaders of the Origin System

This means that the Narmer Empire wasn’t a random idea Ballas had, it was the culmination of a centuries-old sentient dream

Which is also why Pazuul and the Archons continue to uphold Narmer instead of just leaving for Tau, Narmer was always their plan.

[strange plinth]

Pazuul is actively trying to leave for Tau

[clever linden]

With Narmer

[stiff fable]

Tuvul meanwhile was the guy behind the Zariman, narrates a bunch of lore chronicling the collapse of the mission, was a major subject of the Sentient lore fragment, and ended up being killed by Voruna in the backstory

[ionic moss]

Praise the wise and mighty Ballas! 🙏

All for one

[clever linden]

That song was so cool

And gave me uncomfortable memories

[stiff fable]

Point of order

[ionic moss]

Proceed

[stiff fable]

The original Sentient plan for the Origin System was Xenocide

[ionic moss]

Are you sure?

[stiff fable]

Complete extermination of the entire human species and all descendents thereof other than themselves

[strange plinth]

"We crossed the gap, wombs in ruin, to bring an end to this. We severed the worlds, let them destroy me, why is the sequence not complete?"

[ionic moss]

What if they were forced out by something? How can you know it was truly what you're saying

[stiff fable]

The Sacrifice

[ionic moss]

That is umbra specific

[fast dew]

Gotta remember Roathe is. Biased and kinda racist

[stiff fable]

Ballas's plan with Hunhow is to carry out the Orokin Collapse, put the Tenno to sleep, then murder all the Tenno

Then the Sentients finish off everyone else

[clever linden]

Then why doesn’t Pazuul just do that? He leads Narmer now, he has no reason to Larp with Ballas dead

In fact, he venerates him as a Martyr.

Pazuul and the Archons are upholding Narmer because they always wanted to unite the Origin System under their rule by force, not just generic terminator mindset

[stiff fable]

Because Pazuul wants to go back to Tau

[strange plinth]

the goals of Narmer and the goals of the original sentients that crossed the gap are different

[stiff fable]

Narmer isn't the Sentient Armada

[clever linden]

With Narmer, not alone like Ballas

[ionic moss]

Narmer is the new old corrupted

[stiff fable]

We actually don't know that

[clever linden]

It was started by the remnant forces that literally survived the Old War by hiding in deep space

[stiff fable]

Ballas made a big deal about taking people to Tau originally

[ionic moss]

Well look at them... coming to this place...

[stiff fable]

Does Pazuul care about the rest of Narmer when push comes to shove?

[clever linden]

Religious beliefs

[fast dew]

He can't know what the sentients want, and his only guess is based on how they acted during wartime

[stiff fable]

Talking up Ballas is just cult behavior

[clever linden]

He sees the Sol Sysyem as his “flock” that he must “protect”

[fast dew]

Oh lord not the word flock

[clever linden]

There’s also his construction project that involves a lot of cryotic

[fast dew]

-# his flock

[ionic moss]

Lets look at the basics here

[clever linden]

I think it’s a new Zariman or something like it

[ionic moss]

What is cryotic? Its cool right

[humble sierra]

[fast dew]

Lord the word flock haunts me

[ionic moss]

Ok so Pazuul needs alot of it to build something cool

[fast dew]

Its been. 2 months now

[strange plinth]

“Usually found in extreme sub-zero environments, Cryotic instantly freezes anything it contacts.”

[clever linden]

It’s pretty cool yeah

[clever linden]

FOR CRYOSTASIS PODS!!

[ionic moss]

Bingo

[lean garden]

its going to be a rail

[humble sierra]

Oh yeah, have you got any of the in-game stuff yet? Or like an email or anything regarding that?

[stiff fable]

I half suspect Pazuul's trying to wake up Praghasa

[humble sierra]

We just walk there

[lean garden]

sentients dont need cryo to travel to tau

[fast dew]

Nup, not to my knowledge

[strange plinth]

they went there the first time just fine

[ionic moss]

Sentients can't go to the void they fear it

[fast dew]

Perhaps a support ticket is in order...

[clever linden]

He’s building a new Ark Ship to take Narmer to “holy Tau” he needs excessive amounts of Cryotic to freeze Narmer

He’s taking the entire Narmer Empire to Tau and he’s figured out how to do it!!!

[fast dew]

They do not fear it. It hurts them but they do not fear it.

[ionic moss]

But with cryotic they perhaps can

[humble sierra]

Unless there's another TennoVIP scheduled sometime before TennoCon?

[lean garden]

and yet the sentients literally went through it to come back to origin to whoop ass

[humble sierra]

I say maybe wait until the Brazil one, that's soon, right?

[fast dew]

Mm, Brazil

[strange plinth]

"And I beheld a great Ram, and the horns of him were crowned with Sol, and with Tau. And upon his tongue, the Zariman flame. And the mighty daemon of the Void, cowered before him. And he feared it not."

[fast dew]

Good idea.

[loud oriole]

may 1st is the next TennoVIP yeah

[stiff fable]

I love Pazuul dialogue

[lean garden]

HARPY

[humble sierra]

"BITE MY HEAD CLEAN OFF, MOTHER"

[fast dew]

The tennovip symbol thing for this year/last year was awesome lookin

Tau themed...

[clever linden]

“Crowned with Sol” like they pretty clearly see Origin System as “their territory” not a failed mission Ballas forced them to do

[fast dew]

Sol just means sun

[clever linden]

Sol system

[fast dew]

Sun not being exclusive to our system

Sun. Is. A star

[humble sierra]

Our Sun is Sol, though, that's exclusive to us

[ionic moss]

Tau's Star is being devoured by something

[humble sierra]

Another star

[fast dew]

By another star lol

[clever linden]

He didn’t say “crowned with a sun” he said “crowned with sol” because he’s referring to Sol system specifically

[fast dew]

Its a binary star system

[humble sierra]

The two stars are fighting
a Star War

[clever linden]

Love this

[ionic moss]

What do you mean the two stars are fighting a war

[fast dew]

Its a long walk to the stars
Almost as if
Its a star trek

[stiff fable]

anyway I want to know what happened to the other two archons

[ionic moss]

Are they wrestling or shooting each other?

[stiff fable]

If Pazuul has the orange shard, we're down a purple and a green

[fast dew]

Mm

They are specifically artificially made

[clever linden]

They should add 2 new archives for those colours

[stiff fable]

IF DE goes that route, at least one is waiting for us at Tau

[fast dew]

Perhaps

[clever linden]

They can make them yeah, but those aren’t as strong as their ancient “tauforged” ones

[ionic moss]

Pazuul definitely has orange shard

[stiff fable]

also like, small thing, but red, blue, yellow

[clever linden]

The orange shard will probably do something big in the plot I can feel it

[stiff fable]

The three primary colors, yes?

[clever linden]

Like the last shard in New War

[stiff fable]

It's a prism

[fast dew]

Uh.

[stiff fable]

The Light of Tau

[lean garden]

we can make tauforged shards, "ancient" is nothing

[fast dew]

Depends on what type of colour we're using

[clever linden]

Then why is tauforged better in lore?

They must be more advanced somehow

[strange plinth]

the shard is yellow in concept art, red-ish in neutral lighting, and Very Orange in the quest

and never shows up in transmissions, for some reason

[clever linden]

Made with materials or factories that don’t exist in Sol system

[ionic moss]

I think we're gonna witness something big with Tau

[humble sierra]

Bro took off his jewelry

[ionic moss]

None is ready

[fast dew]

Because. Cyan, Magenta and yellow are. Also primary colours in their own right

[lean garden]

thats a nonsense counterargument.
What would "ancient" have anything to do with them being stronger than normal shards

[stiff fable]

yup

[humble sierra]

yeah it's a end of year quest, those are always mindblowing

[clever linden]

Why is ancient Orokin technology better than modern made stuff?

[fast dew]

Sometimes its not lmao

[ionic moss]

Why are primes better than original?

[fast dew]

-# sometimes they're not + they can be the original

[clever linden]

Uhhhhh i actually wasn’t even aware something was argued

[stiff fable]

oh lord what if Tauforged IS Sentient prime

[clever linden]

I was just wondering what makes tauforged better

[stiff fable]

Tauforged War

[ionic moss]

Voruna can run on all 4s , normal voruna can't

[stiff fable]

Tauforged Basmu

[ashen pulsar]

because orokins were the peak of human society

[ionic moss]

Prime*

[clever linden]

They must be internally more advanced, better ai and stuff

[ashen pulsar]

technologically, at least

[fast dew]

Not ai LMAO

They hated that shit

[strange plinth]

the orokin had a whole thing about ai

[ashen pulsar]

https://tenor.com/view/warframe-albrecht-entrati-true-you-are-true-warframe-1999-gif-1092476567053353718

[clever linden]

Chill

Better circuitry if you want particulars

[ashen pulsar]

more magic

[strange plinth]

i don't think tauforged even means ancient, considering we can make them by slapping a couple of regular shards together

[clever linden]

Maybe they have more “Tau Energy” like what sentients and Caliban can produce

[lean garden]

incorrect comparison.
Its like saying primes then are stronger than primes now. Which is wrong. Primes then are the same as primes now.

Tauforged shards made back then, are as strong as tauforged shards made now

[ionic moss]

I think we should call animal protection services on entrati

[stiff fable]

Tauforged just means there's extra tau juice in them

[ashen pulsar]

we dont even know what archon shards are, let alone how one adds magic to them

[stiff fable]

Or they're forged in the fires of Tau's sun

[lean garden]

3 shards for only 1.5x more gogojuice

[stiff fable]

Wait no that's actually Soulframe

[lunar prawn]

Lettie and Tagfer are doing that for us

[stiff fable]

(soulframe has a starter weapon that was made by pulling material from a sun, it's sick af)

[ionic moss]

I have an hypothesis on what tau shards are

[strange plinth]

“A source of anti-entropic radiation ideal for empowering synthetic lifeforms, most notably Archons and Warframes.”
archon shard desc

[fast dew]

I mean. He's a scientist

Chances are he has some form of license

[clever linden]

U really took my one mention of the word “ancient” 100% seriously and literally

Time-wise, objectively Tauforged shards are ancient, the Narmer forces had been hiding in deep space before New War, so all the tauforged shards they had are finite and precious

I never said “they are powerful because they are old”

[ionic moss]

The void crystallizes emotions, thats what archon shards are

[lunar prawn]

Yeah that's not gonna save his ass

[stiff fable]

He's a doctor of theoretical physics, not a medical doctor OR a vetrinary doctor!

[fast dew]

Animal testing is. a matter of lessening their pain

[stiff fable]

uh

[lean garden]

and yet you threw this out

[stiff fable]

sure, tell that to the ethics board lmao

[fast dew]

Animal testing is not limited to those sciences lol

[ashen pulsar]

considering they're anti-entropic...

[lunar prawn]

Not what the cavia cephalon fragments said lol

[fast dew]

Yeah they do. Thats what real animal testing is based on.

[clever linden]

Not because of age

Because the age of the Orokin had better tech

Tauforged shards must have been built with better tech too

[lunar prawn]

It was really just throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks

[stiff fable]

sure sure lmao

[fast dew]

????

[lunar prawn]

And it backfired

[stiff fable]

"So I smoked some dank kush and put some puppies in the Void chute"

[fast dew]

It is??? What do you think vaccines are tested on?

[ionic moss]

And Tau Forged simply means that the crystalized emotions were made on Tau

[lunar prawn]

Read the logs, Entrati talks about why he sent the cavia into the void

[fast dew]

I. Know the logs.

[strange plinth]

how would they be harvesting 'void-crystallized emotions' if the void is poison to them

[clever linden]

They are more powerful though, so there is more to it then that

[fast dew]

The logs never tell us about potential pain management. Except. We know that they went into cryo. Which. Lessened their pain

[ionic moss]

Made we should look about why or how they harvest it but the causality of it

It clearly drove the archons mad

[stiff fable]

admittedly maybe the same way the Orokin derived properties from it into Kuva before they knew there was anything in the Void

[lunar prawn]

Pain that came from him sending them there in the first place, is it not?

[fast dew]

Pain that wasn't intentional nor expected

[stiff fable]

I said a few years ago that I wondered what an "archon" was if we have shards of them

[lean garden]

except then you consider that all shards used to make tauforged are also "made in the same age"

if you want to discount the fact that tauforged shards ripped from an archon and the ones you make are of the exact same potency

[fast dew]

The amount of exposure they had was not something he anticipated.

[lunar prawn]

Given all the other specimen that died before I'm not really sure if it was not expected

[fast dew]

You cannot anticipate pain that you had no idea was. Possible

[strange plinth]

all of the shards we get from deep archimedea are the shards that got dumped on albrecht's doorstep

[lean garden]

exactly, every shard in someone's possession is old

[fast dew]

Do i need to go into how many lab animals die on a regular basis or

[lunar prawn]

You don't have to

[ionic moss]

Maybe those were simply just remnants of the old war that albretch hoarded in his labs

[stiff fable]

They are yeah

[fast dew]

Folk just dont gaf cus they're usually rats or other undesirable animals

[stiff fable]

Archon shards are similar to the original eidolon arcanes

[strange plinth]

-# “Pursuant to the study of Archon Shards

-# Tenno,

-# As I adjust to the era in which I have awakened, I note with alarm the reappearance of 'Archons', a foe we have not seen since the Sentient War.

-# Several Archon Shards were retrieved from the battlefields. The Orokin demanded Albrecht Entrati explore the potential inherent in them, a task he immediately delegated to me.

-# The Necraloid has shown me some examples of Kermerros' work with Shards. Impressive. I believe I can improve upon it, however.

-# You may acquire the relevant Segment from the Cavia at your convenience.

-# —Loid”

[lunar prawn]

I like to think Bird 3 just steals those shards from the archons every week Untitled Goose Game style

[stiff fable]

They're part of something bigger (probably eidolons themselves) that have been rendered down before they made their way to us

oh man we need a Bird 3 emote here

[ionic moss]

Lol @lunar prawn

[lunar prawn]

https://tenor.com/view/goose-hello-and-goose-discord-gif-21672170

[ionic moss]

I think Eidolons were the first iterations of peace keepers and an attemps at a treaty with the origin system

[clever linden]

I thought the normal archon shards were made here?

Hence not being tauforged?

[stiff fable]

ah, we do know what the eidolons are

[ionic moss]

But it failed and the eidolons are forever mourning revenant

[lean garden]

you uh, havent been lucky at all with your archon hunts huh

or with your EDA

[stiff fable]

No no, it's explained in Saya's Vigil

The eidolons are pieces of a single Sentient

[lean garden]

wh-why would the sentients be mourning a warframe??

[ionic moss]

That i'm still wondering

[fast dew]

Their. Calls. Screams. Whatever you call them. Are. Sad

[stiff fable]

During the Orokin Collapse this Sentient went around destroying every Orokin Tower it could find on Earth

The Unum and Gara stopped it

[lean garden]

Euuuuuughh wuwawawawaDOOOOSH

[fast dew]

They are mourning in their own right, I feel

[stiff fable]

And then Gara took a bomb and jumped into its mouth

The eidolons are the biggest pieces of that one Sentient

It knows it used to be something else, but it can't remember what

It's basically lobotomized

[ionic moss]

Eidolons are not part of a Megazord

Lmao

[stiff fable]

No, they're not

But they ARE a distributed consciousness

[fast dew]

And its the most gutwrenching sounds outside Thrax's own screams at the end of the duviri paradox

[stiff fable]

You know the regular sentient enemies you fight on Lua?

Those are itty bitty pieces of Hunhow

[ionic moss]

Occulysts? The scanners?

[stiff fable]

Them too yeah

Meant the Battalysts in this case tho

[ionic moss]

Why are they blue

[stiff fable]

So, that's how the Sentients work

Just to make them spookier

there's no deep reason tbh

[lunar prawn]

He was feeling like it

[ionic moss]

Haha fair

[stiff fable]

wait wait no wrong answer

Da ba dee

There we go

[lunar prawn]

He made the yareli skin

[stiff fable]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iwHb189X84

[lunar prawn]

Grandpa is just like that sometimes

[stiff fable]

anyway yeah

[strange plinth]

-# The Sentient prowled and pressed and failed, never risking too much - for the Sentient could not reproduce. What it lost it lost forever.

-# The Sentient, you see, could not procreate. But in the Temple kuva it tasted healing. Completeness. A future. It devoured each and every last Unum-animal, but it was not enough.

-# The Sentient threw itself at the tower, no longer cautious, taking great losses and knowing the prize was worthy of it. Should it succeed all losses would be replaced a thousand-fold.

-# The Sentients, then, became as they are now: senseless, wandering, yearning for a unity they sense more than they remember.
if anyone wants the bits of the codex entries

[ionic moss]

Ok but the Occulysts being blue definitly means something they are Ethereal and invulnerable

[stiff fable]

they're invulnerable so you don't obliterate them before you can scan them for Natah

the quest I mean

[lunar prawn]

Tell that to the things I have to escort in the perita rebellion missions

They're very much vulnerable

[ionic moss]

Them being Ethereal sure means that they are phasing through reality itself

[stiff fable]

Even in 2016 that was a problem, and you needed three or five scans originally rather than just one

Anyway that's the Eidolons

Revenant is actually even easier

He was their jailer

[ionic moss]

Why are the Occulysts blue? Hmmm.

[lunar prawn]

Honestly

I think Hunhow was just on Uranus for so long he started liking the color

[stiff fable]

tbf he spent most of his time there dead for evil plan reasons asleep

[ionic moss]

Whats Aya?

[rigid compass]

He hasnt seen the surface in like 1000 years

[stiff fable]

memories

[strange plinth]

memory plasma iirc

[ionic moss]

Are Aya tears?

[stiff fable]

just memories in a semi-solid form

[ionic moss]

And if they are who cried those tears

[rigid compass]

Memory oobleck

[stiff fable]

They aren't tears, so, no one

STEALING THAT

[rigid compass]

😭

[ionic moss]

Maybe there was a godess once upon a time that cried Aya, she saw an entire timeline crumble to dust and left us memories of it

[strange plinth]

whuh

[ionic moss]

shrugs

[stiff fable]

my guy

or, person

[rigid compass]

😭 ✌️

Is Aya edible?

[ionic moss]

Good question

[fast dew]

It was on that sandwich

[lean garden]

try it

[ionic moss]

If Aya is tears then maybe it can be turned to soup

Good soup

[rigid compass]

This guy keeps tryna make Aya be tears

[ionic moss]

Is there a godess in warframe besides Lotus

[rigid compass]

Lotus aint a goddess

[strange plinth]

nor are there. any deities, really

[fast dew]

Wally is thr closest

[rigid compass]

Quick question at what point in the story are u?

[ionic moss]

Margulis, Natah, Lotus three iterations of one being. Thats quite the godess right there

[rigid compass]

Bro

Thats not even

[rigid compass]

@ionic moss answer

[strange plinth]

vor mentions Janus via the Janus key. he has two faces

[rigid compass]

Janus is a Greek god or something right?

[strange plinth]

roman, but yes

[rigid compass]

Isnt that just the orokin naming things like how we do

We dont say Jupiter is a god

[lunar prawn]

Wally is the closest we got

[stiff fable]

Roman god of doors

He had two faces so he could look inside and outside simultaneously

[strange plinth]

there's bits of earth culture that survived to the orokin empire, despite their purges
janus is apparently one
the german language is another

[stiff fable]

I swear to god if they make the Janus Key relevant in a future update....

[lunar prawn]

Never heard of that second one

[fast dew]

You knew id mention that

[ionic moss]

Wally doesn't cry though and is a villian so we can discard that for a tear bearer recipient

[strange plinth]

Janus Vor exists

[lunar prawn]

He appears on the descendia so it's not impossible

[rigid compass]

Margulis is the archimedean lover of ballas, natah is the sentient daughter of hunhow, lotus is natah taking the form of margulis and making a new persona to take care of the tenno

[stiff fable]

Relevant, not reference!

[fast dew]

Albrecht's name and childhood nickname suggests the german survived

[strange plinth]

mm, indeed i did

[lunar prawn]

That's fun

[fast dew]

little bengel.

[rigid compass]

Doesnt mean hes a god

[fast dew]

Mean 💔/j

[ionic moss]

Margulis is Natah and the Lotus all their stories are intertwined

[rigid compass]

Bro what

[ionic moss]

I know its hard to swallow

[rigid compass]

Spouting nonsense 😭

[fast dew]

Thats not what grey is saying, they're saying that. Multiple personalities like the lotus doesn't indicate Godliness, using. Janus as an example

[stiff fable]

besides, Lotus's mythological counterpart is the triple faced goddess

[ionic moss]

Thanks captain. At last a conoissuer

[rigid compass]

I thought he was saying the name of the key being Janus implies there may be a god named Janus in lore

[fast dew]

It implies that the mythos survived

[rigid compass]

I mean yeah? I think theres a decent amount of examples not that I know of any

Like references to old earth

[strange plinth]

no i was pulling a <whoever that loretuber is> and connecting the Janus Key to Janus, the mythological figure its based on
but it was in relation to calling the lotus a goddess because three faces by mentioning an actual mythological figure with multiple faces

a /s on the original message would've worked, i mean

[ionic moss]

[Aya]

[lean garden]

raise your ya ya ya

[ionic moss]

Linking doesn't work thats a bummer

I was about to show you all that it does look like a tear

[strange plinth]

'looks like' does not equal 'is'

[rigid compass]

U should be able to but we all know what it looks like

[ionic moss]

Well its still a fair assumption based on a visual

[fast dew]

Why would we be able to this aint warframe 😭

[lean garden]

Drifter: And Aya is like... Ordis called it "Memory Plasma" once. It stores just about anything in it.

anyways, aya is not some damn mystery substance

[rigid compass]

If u talking about me I mean a photo of it not linking

[strange plinth]

“Raw Orokin memory plasma. Varzia's Foundry can consume Aya to create Void Relics.”

“Orokin sequencing medium. Pricks used it to archive everything. Memories, evidence... Warframes. The Orokin can rot in their own filth, but those Prime 'frames? They deserve to live again... and Regal Aya can make that happen. With Regal Aya, this Foundry can reconstruct you a Prime Warframe yanked straight from my time. As real as my pretty face in front of yours. No guesswork.”
-# i have no idea how large this image is lmao, let's find out

[fast dew]

Grey! Bau! Do you remember what chat it was that talked about idle animations being a remnant of their original human?

[ionic moss]

So youre saying this isnt a tear

[strange plinth]

not the specific chat but i can find it rq

[rigid compass]

Its called gravity son

[lean garden]

you know what else apparently survived? The Br't'sh

[rigid compass]

They did?

[ionic moss]

Lmao worm

[fast dew]

Yeah Mother is. British

Its really weird 😭 she's almost offensively British

[rigid compass]

Oh uh I havent really talked to her in a while

[lean garden]

Where do you think "Excalibur" came from? Sure aint the Chinese

[rigid compass]

I mean she's pretty mean

[lean garden]

That said, the Chinese also must have survived

[fast dew]

Smthn smthn mother got the autism her dad had

[lean garden]

Thanks Nezha and Wukong

[ionic moss]

Excalibur(the blade) is a blade

[rigid compass]

Well the word "the" also survived but we aint using that to say the British survived

[strange plinth]

quincy, r3c4
can grab an image of that bit of the chat as well

[rigid compass]

Excalibur is past just being some British story

[fast dew]

Excalibur is. A very cultural reference

[lean garden]

Loxley as well

[rigid compass]

The orokin could know the word but not the story doesnt mean it survived

[fast dew]

Specifically about. The story of King Arthur and thr Round table

[ionic moss]

Whats the story about Ash?

The guys just burned

[rigid compass]

Pompei

[fast dew]

There's. Also Albrecht giving the dude named Arthur the Excalibur strain

[ionic moss]

Really?

[strange plinth]

ash has a leverian about Not Doing His Job

[stiff fable]

Arthur lol

[rigid compass]

Yeah but albrecht obviously knows that since its 1999

[lean garden]

I mean, first you have Excalibur the warframe with a blade. And then the Sentient collab is Caliban (See Caliburn) which is the "other" sword in the story

[fast dew]

And while Albrecht isnt the best example, he is notorious for hoarding old books

[rigid compass]

he would have access to all our culture

[rigid compass]

How's Caliban a reference to caliburn

[lean garden]

other because its still disputed if excalibur and caliburn are different or are the same blades

[ionic moss]

Drusus Tellonius Leverian didn't specify how Ash died or how he mastered the art of getting roasted