lore-discussion

[left parrot]

Where can I read this one liner

[strange plinth]

'yea we found her in a bush lol'

[tall echo]

*mushroom

[stiff fable]

Hilariously, Undermind actually expands on that indirectly

Because they found her in mushrooms yeee

And who do we know is down there in the shrooms

[strange plinth]

a 'tangle of vallis fungi' counts as both i think
but its funnier to say bush. more ordinary

[cunning ore]

i think might be by Entrati, since Xaku bp in Demois rotation tho

[stiff fable]

Everyone say "thank you Nokko"

[tall echo]

wonder if the solaris who found the bp did a drg and repeatedly pinged it going "mushroom"

[woven coyote]

Lol

mushroom

[cunning ore]

So Xaku is like lovetown-incident frame

[stiff fable]

pffft

[tall echo]

frankenframe

[stiff fable]

Distressingly accurate

[left parrot]

OK from what I understand here

It's sounds like the Void itself fixed them together into one (might be a rough theory of Xaku)

Unbeknownst of the void, it took parts of what was broken and fixed it into one

Rough theory, all hypothetical, but it might be a possibility it happen

[tall echo]

next up: warstein

wait

[cunning ore]

If mentioning about Void, let think about Albrecht. It what i can doubtly sure that it associating to him

[strange plinth]

yea
i've had the thought before that they came together because the later frames might've been trying to find the older ones and causing some kind of CE shenanigans. absolutely no evidence for it, just an interesting thought

[tall echo]

wat

[left parrot]

Might be connected to Albrecht if that's the case bc of the Void

[stiff fable]

Eh, doubt it

[strange plinth]

they were lost on entrati void expeditions, its either albrecht or mother

[cunning ore]

yea, thank you translate it to me, i have a barrier

[stiff fable]

During the Old War he was pretty focused on fighting Wally

[tall echo]

xaku prime has obols, don't froget

[woven coyote]

The line doesnt mention what frankensteined xaku together or even implies it

[tall echo]

...FROG TYPO

[left parrot]

Yeah could add to the missing lore. Can't decide, and I can't force it as it'll be a fan lore in my part

[stiff fable]

Plus
Broken Warframes adrift in the Void converged to create Xaku. Together, they deal high damage. Xaku proves that the sum of the whole is greater than its parts.

[woven coyote]

Just that the pieces were lost during the expeditions

[left parrot]

It's a rough theory as I said, from the collective results here from what I learned

More of a "Maybe" than of a "Oh is this it?" type of thing

[strange plinth]

this is the new description, right?
idr if their old description has anything interesting

[woven coyote]

Oh they changed the description?

[tall echo]

the duality of germans
one is fluent in english
the other struggles

[strange plinth]

yea at some point ig a bunch of warframe descriptions got revamped?

[woven coyote]

Didnt remember that xaku had been one

Well there you go lol

[left parrot]

"broken Warframes adrift in the void converged to create Xaku"

Now that's leaning to a slightly rough theory of mine. Could be either the Warframes and the Void became the conduit to form Xaku

[woven coyote]

Yup

[tall echo]

I enjoy the shortness of some of the new descriptions like volt's, it just feels so. anticlimactic

[cunning ore]

so i am german? i don't understand much of the question

[stiff fable]

Actually hang on didn't one of the Xaku descriptions imply that the real Xaku was actually the ghost branches inside it

[tall echo]

assuming based on one screenshot you sent

[left parrot]

Hold on wdym

[tall echo]

also it wasn't a question

[cunning ore]

no, i'm not a german

[stiff fable]

In the concert of mayhem, Xaku is a law unto themselves, Tenno.” —Lotus ```

[strange plinth]

iirc maybe
trying to find the old description but i can't remember which update it was

[stiff fable]

Ah yeah channel the spirits of the Void

[tall echo]

I have assumed incorrectly

assumptions suck

[left parrot]

"forged"

It implies someone or something created it and using the Lost to create... Them

[stiff fable]

Which implies that it's borrowing the power of the lost three instead of being the lost three

[cunning ore]

Assumptions with some messed-up memories more horrible

so pat pat

[left parrot]

Oooo that's true too!

[stiff fable]

Tbh I think we're probably overthinking it if we're comparing different descriptions

The concept is based on kintsugi, which is a Japanese tradition of fixing broken household objects with molten gold

So Xaku isn't those three Warframes, but it also is

[woven coyote]

I remember back when the community was voting some people were voting on broken because of gaming broken

Fun times

[left parrot]

OK so key points I would want to remember is that

Xaku was created potentially in the void by 3 of the lost warframes

Xaku is not one, but they are Xaku

It's basically saying "Xaku is Xaku while they themselves are not Xaku"

Aight gotcha, that will live through my head now hahahahah

[cunning ore]

can we see the Xaku as like a Family Name?

[left parrot]

Oh yeah it can be

Rough Theory, it's the surname of the family in Deimos XDDDD

[stiff fable]

Literal found family quick get to AO3

[cunning ore]

Grandmother do really like to naming frames as i can see till now

[left parrot]

That's true

[strange plinth]

adding something on
drifter says they're "driven by void spirits" in an arthur convo

[fresh orchid]

Isn’t Deimos the Entrati family?

[cunning ore]

Entrati is Entrati

😭

[fresh orchid]

Yeah someone said Xaku was a surname for the Deimos family lmao

[cunning ore]

Then Granmother does really like to giving their names to frames

[left parrot]

Oh ya that's true hahahaha

[left parrot]

Yeah that's me hahaah

[cunning ore]

Btw, how the Hex can know like things that we don't know?

[fresh orchid]

Yeaaaaah 😬

[cunning ore]

I mean they are people from the past? So how they can said sth like it from a far future?

[ashen pulsar]

like what

[fresh orchid]

Entrati himself went into 1999? That’s the man in the baseball cap that’s possessed by Wally?

[strange plinth]

-# not literally possessed by wally but they have beef

[ashen pulsar]

yeah that’s true

[fresh orchid]

Nah he was Wally’s meat suit for a moment

[ashen pulsar]

not him

[cunning ore]

Nah, got a misreading up there, Grey said it in convo not by Arthur

[fresh orchid]

Pretty sure he used Entrati to jump to Rusalka

[opaque kestrel]

I believe kaya also did eventually figure out time travel as flare learned about their future?
(unless i misunderstood the conversation)

[ashen pulsar]

https://tenor.com/view/albrecht-warframe-warframe-1999-gif-3479793310438880584

[stiff fable]

afaik he was rap tap tapping on Neci since she was a child

[ashen pulsar]

this isn’t albrecht

[strange plinth]

the 1999 ARG was about letting wally in through rusalka
we played as rusalka and let it in to 1999

[fresh orchid]

Yep that’s him as meat suit

[cunning ore]

Bro want to experience of being a gay to a straight?

[ashen pulsar]

it isn’t him

[fresh orchid]

Which one is he?

[ashen pulsar]

that’s just wally

[strange plinth]

the murmur overloaded the connection, they likely distorted it

[cunning ore]

Wait or Rusalka les?

[fresh orchid]

That’s not Wally without a meatsuit

[stiff fable]

Doesn't that Albrecht talk to the player during Whispers?

And explain how to build the gargoyle

[fresh orchid]

Yes. It’s a version of Albrecht from what the story said

Loid even confirmed it in the Cavia storyline

[ashen pulsar]

don’t think we know anything about her sexuality

[cunning ore]

So this Wally?

[fresh orchid]

This is Wally in a meatsuit

[ashen pulsar]

wally has never controlled albrecht.

[cunning ore]

That confusing now

[strange plinth]

Loid (Original): "So... Albrecht made it to 1999 in one piece. But that thing is still on his heels. Albrecht rarely smiled, after his return from the Void. And never like that... I smashed the casket for NOTHING! IT FOLLOWED HIM ANYWAY!"
<cavia making noises>
Loid (Original): "SILENCE, CREATURES! It seems the Murmur overloaded your connection. Unfortunately for Albrecht's cherished Pom-2. Not as 'future proof' as the label claimed, alas."

[cunning ore]

So it was Albrecht who laugh?

[tall echo]

Wally impersonates albrecht via shapeshifting, not via possession

[strange plinth]

it likely was the real albrecht + kalymos, but the image got distorted by the murmur at the end

[fresh orchid]

The Indifference possesses as well

[ashen pulsar]

nope. wally. nuisance is incorrect.

[stiff fable]

ah yeah that's it

Loid: "It seems Albrecht said more than we heard. Despite the signal becoming corrupted, his words to you are preserved in the Transference buffer. We should extract them… but for that, the Pom-2 requires a replacement 'board', and those are all hidden away in the Netracells. You do understand that accessing a Netracell without a Keyglyph is completely impossible?"

[tall echo]

Never albrecht

[stiff fable]

It was Albrecht

[fresh orchid]

If you want the creepiest experience with Wally do the Raven voice

[strange plinth]

he's possessed Neci so far, no one else

[stiff fable]

But Wally stuck his head in front of the camera, as it were

[stiff fable]

WELL

Lotus Eaters Albrecht

And also Rell

[ashen pulsar]

he’s not actually possessing him, he’s just hijacking the feed

[fresh orchid]

Is there proof he hasn’t possessed anyone else yet?

[tall echo]

Possessing a corpse just seems like a hermit crab moment

[strange plinth]

maybe rell, not sure if that was purely mimicry or if that was proper possession

[stiff fable]

Lotus Eaters is a different can of worms, but I suspect it's just him copying Albrecht's body

The way he copies ours

[fresh orchid]

Meat puppet, isn’t Entrati dead by the time he becomes the mouthpiece for Wally anyways?

[ashen pulsar]

entrati isn’t even dead in the story

[fresh orchid]

He can also hijack our brains

[stiff fable]

But yes in Whispers Arthur finds the real Albrecht, who monologues at us through Arthur's body

[tall echo]

How would he do the loop if he died

[strange plinth]

primarily that what's happened with Neci hasn't happened anywhere else. we have a ton leading up to Neci's possession, including an explicit deal between the two
Entrati never made a deal

[twin wigeon]

yk that cutscene from whispers in the wall, the 1999 teaser? whats up with the smiling alberect or the wally in the tunnels

[stiff fable]

That's just Wally sticking his head in front of the "camera"

[tall echo]

Scroll up a bit

[stiff fable]

here

[strange plinth]

-# the exact current topic lmao

[cunning ore]

I got so much confusions

[tall echo]

Wow I gotta type faster

[twin wigeon]

ah!

so it was just normal alb but wally was corrupting the feed?

[stiff fable]

yup

[twin wigeon]

silly wally

[stiff fable]

Trix are for kidz

[ashen pulsar]

his power is constantly coursing through our bodies… we’re like a window between the void and the real world for him. He doesn’t actually exert control of our bodies, but he can sure use our heads to yap a lot

[fresh orchid]

We do the loop, do we not? Through the power of Duviri?

[ashen pulsar]

he can’t just possess whoever he wants. They have to let him in.

[cunning ore]

Wait so the meaning of his word "you late" was because we late for the loop or late for Abrecht's jump to other time, or Wally did sth?

[fresh orchid]

Like a vampire

[twin wigeon]

ahhhh scary yellow triangle !!!!

[strange plinth]

albrecht set up the loop and probably extended it
drifter just gets control of it after albrecht leaves

[ashen pulsar]

kinda

[fresh orchid]

I thought he could temporarily take control and we have to more or less fight him off like a psychic attack thing

[tall echo]

That part was albrecht, after that it's wally changing what we see

[ashen pulsar]

only person we know has let him in is neci
-# oraxia doesn’t count, she was basically crazy anyways

[stiff fable]

He's speaking to the Operator the whole time

[twin wigeon]

hm. that begs the question then... whats up the inky mire we're absorbing near the end of the hex quest?

[fresh orchid]

Most of 1999 is a fever dream for the drifter/operator (although a bit weird if you romance adults as a child character)

[cunning ore]

So Albrecht said that then it turned into Wally?

[ashen pulsar]

operator has never been to 1999

[tall echo]

Wally also doesn't control oraxia

[cunning ore]

Yea but i mean the last scene of him smiling

[fresh orchid]

It looks an awful lot like Follie’s ink if I’ll be honest. I wonder if she was in the Void too?

[twin wigeon]

drifter and operator are the same age of several millenia

[ashen pulsar]

operator also does not interact with the triad either btw

[fresh orchid]

Can you not bring your operator to 1999?

[twin wigeon]

no

[stiff fable]

The smile is basically Wally messing with the recording

[cunning ore]

Mom said no, so you cannot

[stiff fable]

Also Operator can't visit the Triad

[fresh orchid]

Oh I thought you could for some reason, at least they made sure it was age appropriate

[twin wigeon]

every mission forces you into drifter, you can't even swap to operator fully in the backroom

[stiff fable]

where's that joke about the Operator hearing there's an Orokin through the portal

[strange plinth]

despite roathe literally sending them a message for operation blood of perita but whatever

[ashen pulsar]

doesn’t possess her, but he does control her

[tall echo]

By tricking her

[stiff fable]

And Drifter and Loid having to hold them back after they come out of the Refractory

"Did you say OROKIN"
angry void beam noises

[fresh orchid]

He manipulated her and another Duviri resident, they show up in Oraxia’s mode

[cunning ore]

Oh, okay it makes sense. But why Wally messing with the recording at that time? Like there might be sth or it just played us?

[stiff fable]

He's trying to make sure we don't get help from Albrecht

[tall echo]

Mathila wasn't controlled or manipulated she was just the door

[fresh orchid]

So she willingly went “oh ok” to his shenanigans?

[stiff fable]

as we play Whispers we recover more of the real message, which includes instructions for how to talk to the Cavia

[ashen pulsar]

same effect

[tall echo]

No

[cunning ore]

Orokin traumatized them too much to make them become more Umbra

[fresh orchid]

I’m sure the Cavia have more when you level them up too

[tall echo]

Wally just used mathila's unstable mind to enter duviri

[fresh orchid]

Doesn’t she need to let him in?

[cunning ore]

Two children no husband

[ashen pulsar]

kinda surprised he needed her. it is the void after all.

[tall echo]

For wally to control her

Which he doesn't

[fresh orchid]

So he can hop into anyone’s if they’re weak enough as a hitchhiker?

[strange plinth]

just needed a foothold
mathila was it

[cunning ore]

Then i said Orokin taught Wally being a bad person

[fresh orchid]

Pretty sure Wally was bad before them lmao

He does things for his own amusement it seems?

[strange plinth]

-# wally may not have existed before albrecht broke into the void

[cunning ore]

If there a definition for good and bad for conceptual embodiment.

[tall echo]

Duviri's whole nature makes it a bit less rule-abiding

[fresh orchid]

So Albrecht directly created Wally and the void creatures?

[ashen pulsar]

I mean, technically wally's humanoid traits come from albrecht, an orokin

[strange plinth]

(Energise the shrine) Neci Rusalka: [laughs] "Don't tell Mathila it was the crack in her mind that let me in."
the crack was garmi, her husband

[twin wigeon]

alb just made wally, the murmur is all wally

[strange plinth]

indirectly and accidentally

[ashen pulsar]

wally created the murmur
wally is the murmur

[fresh orchid]

And Albrecht created Wally so ergo Wally is a piece of Albrecht and so is the Murmur?

[tall echo]

There are multiple jokes I can not make

[fresh orchid]

Does this mean if Albrecht died so would Wally and the Murmur?

[twin wigeon]

no

[ashen pulsar]

no?

[twin wigeon]

they exist separate from Albrecht

[tall echo]

Would duviri cease to exist if drifter died

[fresh orchid]

If he gets his traits from Albrecht how is he not a piece of him somehow?

[twin wigeon]

if anything, we'd die if albrecht dies

[ashen pulsar]

If someone takes a picture of you and you die, the picture doesnt evaporate

[fresh orchid]

Did Drifter create Duviri or did the child on the ship create it?

[twin wigeon]

bc he's like the only guy to know how to stop the indifference

[tall echo]

Yes

[strange plinth]

despite not having made them, i've still found at least some of them funny

[twin wigeon]

drifter = child on ship

[fresh orchid]

So the Drifter was the child on the ship?

[tall echo]

Yes

[twin wigeon]

yep

[fresh orchid]

Ah it made it seem like it was another child, that part wasn’t 100% clear to me

[tall echo]

Drifter is a version of the operator that wasn't saved

[fresh orchid]

Yes I know that part

[twin wigeon]

drifter is all old and gruff and stuff bc they didn't have a cryopod to preserve their age

[tall echo]

Remember "I can save them. All of them"
Drifter was the result of wally doing some wordplay

[twin wigeon]

unlike the operator who's been eeping in the resevoir all this time

[ashen pulsar]

time also runs different in the void

[twin wigeon]

oper-eepy

[tall echo]

them doesn't necessarily include you

[strange plinth]

"I can save them, all of them"
"all of [the children]" was operator's deal, "all of [the other children]" was drifter's
zariman tablet in duviri:

29. You wouldn't welch on a deal, would you?
    A. *CORRUPT FILE DETECTED*
    B. I saved them. All of them. Never said I'd save you. (correct)
    duviri paradox has a scene of Thrax being CE'd, i believe
    and there's some KIM chats about duviri being created

[cunning ore]

At least they can love others to move-on and do stuffs. But look back at Operator...

[tall echo]

I want to kick wally wherever it hurts most

[twin wigeon]

War upon War upon War

Death and Trauma at every corner

[ashen pulsar]

operator could be thousands of years older than drifter, or drifter could be millions of years older than operator, it's kinda irrelevant

[cunning ore]

No, kick Albrecht. He taught Wally to manipulate tho

[cunning ore]

And even have no hope of love but more of losing people they loved.

[spice spade]

I never understood how the whole re-creating warframes and prime warframes in our foundry, because its like wdym Ballas needed real people and turned them into warframes through gruesome and cruel experiments with the infested. Meanwhile we the tenno could just make a rhino woth some common materials found around a planet. I mean it would make sense if were getting the parts for the warframe and just repairing it, but no where crafting one from scratch so did Ballas just do all of that infested torture for love of the game? Or was he too lazy to farm rubedo?

[tall echo]

Albrecht gets a 220% cc lex bullet

[fresh orchid]

Did Albrecht become remorseful over Wally and suddenly try to undo what he created?

[twin wigeon]

we lost lotus like twice now

[cunning ore]

I would introduce you the Mogha that he created

[ashen pulsar]

you should love really hard at him

NOT FOR HIM OR WITH HIM

[tall echo]

The people are necessary for the design process, recreations don't need it

[tall echo]

Both

[tall echo]

That's less poetic

[cunning ore]

You know to make something they do need data? So when something new created they at least need to have data of it before to recraft it.

[fresh orchid]

Pretty sure Ballas enjoyed the creation process tbh

[tall echo]

Besides, I prefer cortege

[ashen pulsar]

that would damage both parties irreparably. not a good idea.

[strange plinth]

oh absolutely
one of jade's memory feather has something about that

[tall echo]

Mentally or physically

[ashen pulsar]

don't fall in love with void monsters

[cunning ore]

Yep, use it, i think it better in ammunition

[ashen pulsar]

yes

[tall echo]

I've had worse

[fresh orchid]

Yep and he speaks about it in the long quest to murder him

[cunning ore]

"Oh look! I found Wally's fanfiction on AO3 more than Ballas's."

[ashen pulsar]

https://tenor.com/view/warframe-hunhullus-slap-gif-129084042900504655

[twin wigeon]

hugs wally

[cunning ore]

Yea, Ballas was being too successful-hated to not even have a proper fanfic

[tall echo]

The amount of typing icy diamonds is doing is starting to scare me

[stiff fable]

Man I want the Entrati archguns to be good

[cunning ore]

No, he just deleting then re-writing

[tall echo]

Cortege and mausolon are like
Top tier archguns

[twin wigeon]

Icy_diamonds is writing the entirety of garuda lore rn

[spice spade]

Yeah, but like even If were just recreating it, if there is a way to make a warfeame without the human suffering why didn't ballas just do that in the first place? I mean for prime and normal warframe blueprints, it doesnt require a human sacrifice. Especially for prime variants which are supposed to be the original.

[spice spade]

Im hungry

[stiff fable]

Is it? Like is that a new thing with the arcanes?

[cunning ore]

Or he is using PS keyboard to type

[tall echo]

We don't talk about the flamethrower

[tall echo]

Always have been

[stiff fable]

That explains it, that one's my favorite

orz

[tall echo]

Mausolon has been in like the top 3 ever since release

[stiff fable]

Yep

[twin wigeon]

mhm mhm

[normal mountain]

He did it because he could
Or so I've been told

[twin wigeon]

larkspur and corvas primes are my favs

[spice spade]

Cant say its out of character

[tall echo]

And cortege is insanely stronk and blinding with the wrong energy color

[cunning ore]

You can craft the replica if you get datas from the original version tho. So there isn't "no pain no gain" way. Unless it Quorvex.

[strange plinth]

the first warframe for the design seemingly requires a human to transform them into the warframe
after that, the infestation + the blueprints are able to recreate the first subject as normal

[tall echo]

I can't understand how corvas p is supposed to be good

[fresh orchid]

Huh Baro made a deal with Wally (seemingly as Albrecht?) to sync his items on cross play platform

[twin wigeon]

crit

[tall echo]

Wally copied baro

[strange plinth]

Baro made a deal with Baro to merge the Baros into One Baro

[tall echo]

Baro

[clever linden]

They aren’t?

[strange plinth]

(ignore Scaro we don't completely know what's up with him)

[stiff fable]

Larkspur I came around on, the new Descendia arcanes+Nyx and Oberon

chef's kiss

[clever linden]

Except Scaro who is like the Drifter Baro

[misty helm]

Garuda's leverian be like: "This is Garuda, the Mistress of Blood. Now let us remember that time Garuda saved a train by killing everybody in it! "

[cunning ore]

Mogha good as it like Akarius without fall-off

[normal mountain]

One Baro to Find them all,
One Baro to Swipe them
One Baro to Sell them all, and in the darkness Scalp them

[tall echo]

I just found that gif and I already love it

The lateness waddle

[cunning ore]

I think that is Discord on PS

[stiff fable]

It turns out the one I was trying to make work was the worst of them

[cunning ore]

Clearly, that amount or Diamonds just less in typing

Bloodborne when?

[spice spade]

Ok, but like being able to re-create a warframe kind of just takes away from the dramatic weight of it. Like imagine instead of the operator contemplating the morality of using these human puppets, instead hes able to justbremake a warframe in an orbitor. In fact if you just need the blueprints for a warframe to remake ir, shouldnt we see alot more warframes running around? Like the corpus re-making a warframe and using an ai to control it.

[stiff fable]

Sony killed the studio that wanted to do the remake

[tall echo]

It's sad really, it ignored terrain for a while but now it doesn't anymore

[stiff fable]

[cunning ore]

In the time of having even a perfect cloning formula plus Orokin was leading by The Seven Sicknesses, there no moral story after a day based on their social standard.

[tall echo]

It was really funny to get hit with a lockdown in corpus rj and just go "nuh uh" and torch the enemies through doors

[cunning ore]

So yea, doubt that they even think of it.

[strange plinth]

making a warframe, even a recreation from a blueprint, requires helminth
only we have helminth

[stiff fable]

Also for the record, when we talk about Entrati Archguns we don't include the Mausolon for... Actually I have no idea why

[clever linden]

Which one is that?

[stiff fable]

Probably because it's free idk

The flamethrower

[fresh orchid]

Yep that’s what I said but the person approaching Baro was seemingly Albrecht bc he described him as handsome

[tall echo]

Mausolon coming with a pre-installed potat AND gravimag is ridiculous tbh

[misty helm]

Daily reminder of the fact that to make a Warframe you need a human surrogate; which should mean every warframe we recreate must have entailed us grabbing a living subject and using it to recreate the strain of that design

So now we know why Lotus needs all those capture targets

/s

[strange plinth]

would Baro not describe Baro as Handsome? he's constantly complimenting himself

[stiff fable]

Cortege

[tall echo]

Baro is obsessed with himself mate

[cunning ore]

https://tenor.com/view/barbie-mad-gif-655083241985923317

[normal mountain]

Or Wally approached him as Baro
And Baro didn't recognize himself without his giant helmet on

[stiff fable]

Yeah fr

[tall echo]

He did

[fresh orchid]

Is he? I just know him from the Sands of Inaros quest where he’s the kid they talked about

[cunning ore]

Okay, now i feel sad at how possible Lotus can be a pair with Ballas.

[tall echo]

Baro is too self-absorbed to understand the issue of meeting himself

[stiff fable]

Iirc it's because they originally DIDN'T give it a gravimag and that caused problems with the code??

[cunning ore]

And step-father is Roathe

[fresh orchid]

Was there a cutscene of this?

[tall echo]

It's the mail

[fresh orchid]

I don’t know if they give this to new players from way after the merge

[tall echo]

They did not

[stiff fable]

Which is a huge shame because it's hilarious

[fresh orchid]

Yeah then I would have no way of knowing this if people didn’t tell others

[tall echo]

"I met this familiar looking handsome guy in the void and he offered to collapse all my alternate selves into one me"

[fast dew]

Baro would never call Albrecht's ugly ass handsome

[fresh orchid]

Yep I didn’t get that

[tall echo]

Thomas jumpscare

[fresh orchid]

The extent of my interactions have been at his relay and one quest 😐

[fast dew]

No no it was a joke

Baro is very very self absorbed

And. Albrecht is a rat

[fresh orchid]

To be fair a lot of the male characters are written as kinda insufferable

[fast dew]

Huh? I think a lot of the male characters are written really well

[strange plinth]

some of the main ones, i'll agree with
most are fine

[fast dew]

Oh yeah no roach is. Tiresome

[strange plinth]

-# even then, that's usually because they're in an intentionally antagonistic role

[tall echo]

21 stab wounds descendias

[fresh orchid]

Written well doesn’t mean they’re not insufferable

[fast dew]

Can you. List them :?

[tall echo]

Permabans will run out before I do roach's stupid progression requirement

[fresh orchid]

Yeah all the dudes in the storyline are more or less insufferable. You might not find them that way but I sure do

[tall echo]

Ye olde ✨ bias ✨

[fresh orchid]

This is a subjective opinion that no one can win at being more right about though lmao

[fast dew]

Id. Prefer a list

And. Reasons as to why

[misty helm]

Just ask help from one of those rusher kids with 400 gazillion dmg Wisp builds that somehow can one-shot God

[fresh orchid]

Nah they’re just written with old science fiction and military tropes so to me, that’s insufferable

[tall echo]

Wasn't there a word for that

[lean garden]

Nuisance is simply Eris Morn

[fresh orchid]

You won’t be getting that ☺️

[fast dew]

sci fi game
has sci fi tropes..?

[fresh orchid]

Yes and I find men in science fiction to be insufferable so wow, me finding the way men are written in the game the same way is SO not predictable

[tall echo]

Like
The opposite of misoginy? How the hyuck is it spelled

[fast dew]

Ohhhh

[fast dew]

Misandry or whatever

[fresh orchid]

Misandry for not liking tropes? Ok there buddy

[tall echo]

English is a bunch of word salads

[fast dew]

No because arguably there's a lot of women who fall into it as well

[tall echo]

I mean
You do seem a bit biased with it

[fast dew]

So like I guess. Necraloid is insufferable

[fresh orchid]

The topic wasn’t about them, was it? Or do you feel the need to shift it that way because I mentioned the men were written in a way that is insufferable for me

[fresh orchid]

Otak is adorable though

[fast dew]

[fresh orchid]

He’s so cute wym! He has a funny little face and says funny things in Deimos missions

[normal mountain]

Tbf, when you specify one is insufferable for following tropes
While the other also follows tropes
The question will be raised

[tall echo]

Otak is like the waffle from asdfmovie

He has brain damage

[fresh orchid]

Oh I have thoughts about the Princess Leia trope being used on Lotus/Margulis.

[fresh orchid]

Yeah but he’s a silly little guy so I love him

[fast dew]

From my very limited knowledge of star wars, I do not think she falls into that trope

[clever linden]

Get out of my brain

[fresh orchid]

From my very in depth knowledge of Star Wars, she does. It’s very close to the Slave Leia arc where there’s a lot unsaid about what went on

[lean garden]

no, the rent is free and the housing market is tough

[fast dew]

I find otak mainly annoying until you get to r5 and he chills

[tall echo]

I find the logic here funny
"[Gender] character writing bothers me"
gets confronted
gets defensive

[fast dew]

Maybe you just. Don't have in-depth knowledge about. Warframe..?

[fresh orchid]

I mean I don’t have to explain my subjective opinion to people for it to be valid for me

That’s wildly insane to think that way

[tall echo]

You could phrase it better though

[fast dew]

No but when people get curious as to why you think almost all of the male characters are insufferable, you don't need to. Be like that

[clever linden]

I made drifter look like drifter https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1349417946610667663/1465429891662221383/IMG_5908.jpg?ex=69d55c70&is=69d40af0&hm=50362f8826f65c1521957c19c9edd0f6a7134bf3b8b6152e09743c8b10f5b65c&

[fresh orchid]

Was she not forced to be in a relationship with Ballas through conditioning and from what it also said, that included the physical expectations of Ballas? Bc if so, the same.

[clever linden]

Wanted to show you

[clever linden]

For some reason the image didn’t imbed

[tall echo]

Not really?

[fresh orchid]

Leia didn’t have romantic relationship with Jabba but she was 100% expected to act as the other slave women in his care

[chilly bone]

very random question; but for female Tennos (either drifter or operator), but would cryo or time jumps affect reproductive health in regards to periods? (on my time of the month rn and im also curious; sorry for the sudden odd question :3)

[fast dew]

...no not. Not really

[tall echo]

Unknown

[chilly bone]

I can already hear him...

[fast dew]

Ballas very well knew the lotus/natah wasn't Margulis

[fresh orchid]

Oh so she willingly was with Ballas physically and mentally the entire time with zero reconditioning of Lotus as Margulis?

[strange plinth]

yea looks like discord's having an issue with embeds rn

[lean garden]

unknown, tenno, being void constructs are still flesh but not really?

[stiff fable]

Ballas took Lotus and she returned as Natah

[fresh orchid]

Yeah I’m speaking of Lotus as Margulis

[fast dew]

She wasnt in a relationship.

[fast dew]

Well. Margulis wasnt the lotus firstly

[tall echo]

She wasn't really with him at any point like marge was

[fresh orchid]

He tried to make her kiss him wym

[fast dew]

And. Margulis, shockingly, was willingly with ballas

[fresh orchid]

I’m speaking of Lotus as Margulis

[clever linden]

Transmats be firing

[fast dew]

I can list reasons as to why thats. Not a relationship.

[fast dew]

Except she's not????

[fresh orchid]

Also Margulis was below his station so it’s not like she could’ve said no much like Roath with Nitokh

[stiff fable]

But yes, Margulis and Ballas were lovers in the past

[fast dew]

She could actually

[chilly bone]

fair enough
cuz idk if being frozen for god knows how long or jumping across time would disrupt the body clock THAT bad

[tall echo]

Ballas didn't force it

[fresh orchid]

With Lotus?

[chilly bone]

oh well

[fast dew]

this is the wild part about 5heir relationship

[tall echo]

Margulis.

[fresh orchid]

She mentions it in the arc where we kill Ballas

[fast dew]

You gotta stop calling Margulis as the lotus.

[stiff fable]

And going by the description they were wildly in love for years and years

[fresh orchid]

I’m talking about Lotus being made to be Margulis for him

[fast dew]

They aren't and never have been the same person

[fresh orchid]

Not the actual Margulis

[stiff fable]

It would be funny if it weren't Ballas

[fresh orchid]

I know 😐

[fast dew]

She has. Memories to. Infiltrate the tenno?

[stiff fable]

Ballas wanted Natah as a replacement Lotus

[tall echo]

Not in the message I replied to tho

[fresh orchid]

You seem to be confusing the concept of Lotus as Margulis and Margulis herself?

[stiff fable]

As part of their plot to kill the Orokin, he uploaded Margulis's memories to Natah

[fast dew]

But. She wasn't in a relationship with ballas.

[stiff fable]

This created the Lotus

[fast dew]

If we wanna be picky, the closest would be Natah

[fresh orchid]

I’ve been speaking about Lotus as Margulis this whole time lmao

[stiff fable]

Lotus and Margulis however are not the same people

[tall echo]

This is
A fun way to spend my time at 4:30am

[tall echo]

????

[stiff fable]

Lotus and Margulis have very different opinions about many things

[fresh orchid]

Yes. Lotus as Margulis is not Margulis.

[fast dew]

And surely thats not the whole trope

[stiff fable]

Including a relationship with Ballas, as it happens

[fast dew]

Because if I wanna be pedantic I can pull out. Gerivaine and Albrecht

[fresh orchid]

Idk you’re just mad I find the men written as insufferable to me and want to poke holes

[fast dew]

I aint mad man

Im genuinely curious

[stiff fable]

But yes I do think Albrecht is insufferable

[fresh orchid]

I’m not a man

[normal mountain]

Confused
Not mad
There is, in fact, a difference

[stiff fable]

Because he knows the correct answer to what he should do and chooses otherwise

[fresh orchid]

All the main male characters are. Umbra? Teshin? Albrecht? Loid? Literally all the main men in the story?

[stiff fable]

It's good character writing

[stiff beacon]

bros just your avg oldman disaster bisexual

[tall echo]

umbra?

[fast dew]

... man as in. The gender neutral term. Like "idk man" doesn't refer folk to men

[strange plinth]

what did umbra do lmfao???

[fast dew]

What the hell lmao

[strange plinth]

have a child??

[stiff fable]

Teshin I don't think is, Umbra is basically not a character

[fast dew]

Be forced to kill that child???

[fresh orchid]

I’m not saying they’re written poorly. I’m just saying it’s an age old trope they stuck to that I find tedious to encounter

[stiff fable]

Loid I actually think is perfect

[fast dew]

What did he do lmao

[tall echo]

You are really not helping the potential misandry case lmao

[fresh orchid]

Really? Huh.

[strange plinth]

be angry at the trope, then, not the characters?

[stiff fable]

I just don't think their characters have all that much in common

[fast dew]

Loid is a bit. Pissy at the start but he genuinely is so nice

[stiff beacon]

is best dad stalker included in this?

[stiff fable]

Besides "being men"

[fresh orchid]

When you’re playing as Umbra? That part was the tedious part so I just hate Umbra now

[tall echo]

Umbra isn't even characterized enough to apply any tropes to him

[stiff fable]

Stalker becomes more of a character over time I feel

[fresh orchid]

I surprisingly don’t have much of an issue with stalker other than giving me heart attacks with light flickers

[fast dew]

We still should have a very healthy fear of Loid as drifter but he genuinely becomes space dad 2 electric boogaloo™ for operator

[fresh orchid]

During the time you play as him they give quite a lot of info out

[stiff fable]

But I also don't think that was aimed at me

[stiff beacon]

that shit stopped being terrifying when wallster entered stage left

[stiff fable]

It sounds more like your issue is that they don't have a lot of characterization at all tbh

[tall echo]

-he was a dax
-he tried to expose ballas
-he was forced to kill his son

[fresh orchid]

Nah it was aimed at me and I didn’t mind Stalker’s arc. I obviously chose Jade’s preferred name bc she died to have the child

[fast dew]

Tryna see what trope Loid falls into

[tall echo]

"Man" ig

[fresh orchid]

Yeah but you’re also stuck as him until you get past that stage so I had to relive that story too many times ☹️

[lean garden]

Umbra, but to himself

[strange plinth]

that's not his character, then. that's just the gameplay you're upset with

[tall echo]

??

[fast dew]

Tired man in scifi media i guess

[fresh orchid]

Loid is a butler who doesn’t have much of an identity outside of picking up after Albrecht’s messes

[fast dew]

He does.

Bet you didnt know he can draw, or that he helped raise Albrecht's kid

[fresh orchid]

It lowkey made me hate that part of the story

[strange plinth]

you have not looked much into his character then
that's part of it, sure, but there's a lot more

[stiff fable]

I mean

[fast dew]

He made the cavia and hex floofs

Presumably his own and the triad's

[fresh orchid]

I genuinely don’t care if he did because being stuck as him for hours made me not give a shit

[stiff fable]

Loid's the person trying to actually solve the problems Albrecht couldn't be assed to do himself

[tall echo]

How do you even get stuck in the umbra segments...

[fresh orchid]

Oh you’re talking about Loid

I prefer mechanical Loid to the human Loid 🤷‍♀️

[strange plinth]

the fight w/ him beforehand, sure, but i don't think you ever have to redo the memory segments

[stiff beacon]

skill issue or some rare bug

[stiff fable]

Oh me too tbh, he's got a good dynamic with Otak

[fast dew]

Wait wait wait. Ticker. How do you feel about. Ticker.

[fresh orchid]

Do you have vertigo that triggers strokes? Bc if not, you wouldn’t understand

[fast dew]

Uh

Maybe. Don't play a game that can cause that

[stiff fable]

Loid doesn't have anything to play off of because all his scenes with the Cavia are in still images

[fresh orchid]

The rapid movement to get through timed portions triggered the vertigo pretty bad

[fast dew]

< person with epilepsy

[tall echo]

And explaining isn't an option for you as we have previously established

[fresh orchid]

I mean, you don’t know when it’ll happen so you’re saying never play games

[fast dew]

Usually it. Has warnings actually

[fresh orchid]

I don’t HAVE to explain why I don’t like characters

[stiff fable]

Medically speaking I'd say talk to your doctor about that

[fast dew]

Even my playstation has one when it opens up

[fresh orchid]

That’s the funny part

[stiff fable]

Like, genuinely

[tall echo]

[fresh orchid]

My doctors knows, I took breaks until I could finish the quest

[fast dew]

I talked to my doctor and they said it's fine instead of risking your life, talk to a doctor about it

[tall echo]

The weekly headache user showed up really early this time

I'll just go sleep

[fresh orchid]

You assumed I risked my life but I have mini strokes not grand mal

[fast dew]

You never specified

[fresh orchid]

I don’t have to?

[fast dew]

But you just did

So. Clearly you're fine with it

[fresh orchid]

Because you assumed very falsely

Which you’re very good at

Had you not assumed I would not have

[fast dew]

So if you dont want folk to assume. What do we do? We give them more information.

[fresh orchid]

Not everyone wants to give you the level of information you desire to make sense of things, coming from another autistic

[fast dew]

When someone hears the word stroke, the immediate image is. That

Don't be surprised when someone. Does a harmless assumption

[fresh orchid]

Buddy

[fast dew]

Please don't bring my autism into this.

[fresh orchid]

It’s common knowledge there’s multiple types of strokes

[fast dew]

Id rather you not.

[fresh orchid]

I’m literally autistic my guy

[tall echo]

Not that common really

[fresh orchid]

I can see the traits coming out in convo and it is causing an issue with mine

[fast dew]

Yes, I know. I know a lot about them. Ive had to care for my brother who has a similar condition.

[fresh orchid]

No it’s pretty common if you have any medical knowledge

[fresh orchid]

You know so much you assumed I was having grand mals without asking clarifying questions?

[fast dew]

But when you just go. "Stoke" without explaining stuff, you get the base assumption of grand mal

[stiff beacon]

im with scrap ya no its not

[fast dew]

Tell me have you watched any medical drama that. Includes the subtypes?

When I say have epilepsy what do you think i have?

[fresh orchid]

Okay what are the types of strokes if you know SO much about them?

[fresh orchid]

I don’t assume you have any of the types bc you didn’t say which one. Focal and absence are very common though so if you’re wanting me to play medical guessing games to feel superior then sure?

[tall echo]

...the point is that the different types aren't common knowledge

[fast dew]

Oh sure. Thats not the type of epilepsy

Thats the seizure type

[fresh orchid]

Learn more about things instead of assuming or does that only apply to games?

[normal mountain]

How about this
I reveal I have a peanut allergy
Your first thought?

[stiff beacon]

neat

[fresh orchid]

My guy, I know a kid who ate a peanut butter cup and stabbed himself after growing up so I don’t assume anything

[cinder locust]

What kinda real life lore drop did we have in here

[stiff beacon]

ones thats getting out of hand

[fresh orchid]

They’re mad I don’t like the writing of most the main men

[normal mountain]

Confused
Not mad

[fresh orchid]

So they decided to band together to prove why I’m wrong about a subjective opinion

[fast dew]

Anyways its mainly hemmoragic and iscemic or however you spell it, those are the. Nature of the stroke at least

[fresh orchid]

It’s not something you have to make sense of though

[normal mountain]

Then why bring it up?

[fresh orchid]

It’s my opinion

[cinder locust]

well glad people can have different opinions, since opinions are usually “I think” and not fact

[fresh orchid]

I’m allowed to have opinions without having to explain them I depth?

Like that is wildly insane behavior to say I can’t just have a simple opinion

[normal mountain]

This is a lore channel
For discussions
If you don't want to discuss, why bring it up?

[tall echo]

No the issue was just your choice of words

[fresh orchid]

Because you all decided to be weird about it 🤷‍♀️

[fast dew]

Tbh when in lorechat, you're gonna be asked to explain

[cinder locust]

well I wanna see the argument

[fresh orchid]

I’ve blocked you already my guy

[fast dew]

Thats kinda the nature of lore chat

[strange plinth]

and you continue to argue instead of leaving

or changing the topic

[fast dew]

Okay so dont reply to the message lmao

[cinder locust]

then probably don’t reply tbh

[normal mountain]

You know what?
Excellent idea!
This s going nowhere anyways!

[fresh orchid]

My argument is that I find main male characters in sci fi to stick to tropes and I always hope to see them break out of it into new interesting ideas but not a lot of the characters do that

[fast dew]

God

Some people

[stiff fable]

Okay, new topic

[fresh orchid]

Hard to when they pile drive every answer I have with “but why” and assumed it was misandry

[fast dew]

Mmm how do you think baro got the loid floof

[cinder locust]

Here, guys, instead of arguing over something probably dumb, just discuss how stug is gonna be the top weapon when its incarnon drops. Or make love not war

[fresh orchid]

Like the entire time it was assumptions

[stiff fable]

If you could bring back one Corpus or Grineer boss into the current story who is it

[stiff beacon]

some dirty deeds done dirt cheap

[humble sierra]

Lech Kril

[normal mountain]

Tyl Regor

[fresh orchid]

Oh I got rid of my regular stug is it supposed to be good?

[fast dew]

Mm. Vay hek

[strange plinth]

is it considered bringing back if he was never in the game

[tall echo]

Assumptions are a part of social interaction

[stiff beacon]

tyl regor

[fast dew]

Thats. Not lore

[cinder locust]

Incarnon was announced

[stiff fable]

No lol it's the worst weapon in the game

[normal mountain]

No, wait
Alad V

[humble sierra]

New incarnon soon

[fast dew]

But okay

[tall echo]

Vor
Again

[fresh orchid]

Wait for real?

[normal mountain]

Either of which would be awesome

[stiff fable]

Yes

[fresh orchid]

Why is it getting an incarnon then

[stiff beacon]

yes

[strange plinth]

where the hell is tengus

[stiff fable]

Memes

[stiff beacon]

for the meme

[cinder locust]

something to change the discussion away from attacking eachother over opinions

[stiff beacon]

florida

[clever linden]

Vay Hek is immortal, he is just rebuilt every time he is killed. He is the Taniks of Warframe

[tall echo]

In fragments

[stiff fable]

Literally people started a chant last Tennocon asking for a stug incarnon

[fast dew]

If we were to bring anyone back in id nominate nihil

[normal mountain]

THEN WE MAKE IT LORE

[fresh orchid]

I feel like there’s more characters I haven’t met yet, like the super bosses 🤔

[stiff fable]

And DE thought it was hilarious

[tall echo]

I misread that as dominate for a second

[fast dew]

True

[fresh orchid]

Oh 😭 Gotta be careful of what you ask for I guess

[fast dew]

I would

[cinder locust]

Dominate nihil

[fast dew]

[tall echo]

Superbosses are just upgrades to regular bosses

[fast dew]

Beat the shit out of him in lacrosse

[fresh orchid]

Aw that’s disappointing I was hoping they were new characters

[tall echo]

Vor, tank, the old pis- peace bosses, the murmur boss

[torpid glen]

[fast dew]

God the guilty is such a stupid ass fight

[fresh orchid]

Although incarnon is void flood stuff? I haven’t interacted with that much yet bc my faction progress is locked to Deimos rn

[fast dew]

My jade is fine. She's. Fine.

[cinder locust]

now imma leave and if yall start arguing again imma come in here and smack around ball ass

[fast dew]

BUT ITS NOT FINE IF I CAN'T USE MY ABILITIES

[fresh orchid]

Ew the Murmur boss again

[stiff beacon]

you mean zariman?

[fresh orchid]

That’s just incentive to argue if we don’t like Ballas

[stiff fable]

Honestly going from this there seems to be a demand for more Grineer boss presence

[fresh orchid]

Yes

[cinder locust]

[fresh orchid]

Grineer are more interesting than Corpus to me.

[fast dew]

Grineer hasnt been important since like. What. 2017? 2018?

[strange plinth]

alternate conclusion: no one wants alad v back and yet he's still alive somewhere

[humble sierra]

I just want Lech Kril to have actual lines, or at least sound less like a grunt

[fresh orchid]

Whaaaaaat he was like the Joffrey of Warframe

[stiff beacon]

sergant needs a glow up

[fresh orchid]

Wait no that’s Nef Anyo

[fast dew]

I am. Very anxious over parvos

[cinder locust]

Anyway I leave now, don’t kill eachother

[fast dew]

Hes gonna appear sometime I swear

[tall echo]

I wonder if they'll ever get around to un-placeholding the placeholder bosses

[fast dew]

Unlikely

[strange plinth]

are there more than sergeant?

[fast dew]

Spaghetti code might shit itself

[tall echo]

Ceres still has old vor

[fresh orchid]

Placeholder bosses?

[fast dew]

It shat itself over Loid's septum piercing I don't know if they can just change bosses anymore 😭

[tall echo]

They 100% only took ceres off the main path to hide the boss

[stiff fable]

Yeah I'd love to see them add proper Phorid to the game

[strange plinth]

the ceres boss has always been weird to me, yeah
why are these two here
vor is supposed to be dead*
lech kril is uhhhhh
-# * - corrupted

[tall echo]

Phorid rework and all it does is add a 1% chance for it to get instakilled by john

[stiff fable]

https://wiki.warframe.com/w/Phorid/Gallery#/media/File%3ASean-bigham-043prog02.jpg

[fresh orchid]

What’s that thing

[cinder locust]

The wiki

[stiff fable]

Phorid's redesign

[fast dew]

John prodman...

[stiff fable]

Also yes we need Prodman back

[strange plinth]

the creature

[stiff fable]

He was the Corpus Clem

[fast dew]

The creature..

[stiff fable]

Also from a 4chan post

[fresh orchid]

Huh

[fast dew]

4chan. What hell.

[tall echo]

We have prodman but he's less characterized

[fast dew]

But. It does produce bangers

[fresh orchid]

Clem is Clem bc they keep cloning the clones, right?

[tall echo]

Clem is clem bc clem is clem

[stiff fable]

More or less

[tall echo]

Grakata

[fresh orchid]

Although I will say Khal is funny because he’s obsessed with his large blue wife

[stiff fable]

Over time the templates used to make Grineer are breaking down

[fresh orchid]

Only incentive I have to do Khal quests is to see them flirt

[stiff beacon]

clone rot

baby

[tall echo]

They're breaking it down?

[stiff fable]

Which is bringing some Grineer the ability to break out of the DNA programmed loyalty

[fresh orchid]

Are they the same source code or new source codes from each clone?

[stiff fable]

Same source

[fresh orchid]

Ooooof

[stiff fable]

But they need to clone the source every few decades

[stiff beacon]

same genetic template

[tall echo]

Clone of a clone of a clone of a clone o-

[fresh orchid]

That’s definitely the Hapsburg jaw of Warframe

[stiff fable]

The Grineer getting the Prime Grineer template is actually one of the Tenno's loss conditions

[fresh orchid]

Is that why the clones all look so demented?

[fast dew]

Generation loss! No not the YouTube thing, its a thing with magnetic media

[stiff fable]

Yeah

[tall echo]

That's clone rot, yea

[fresh orchid]

Huh I figured the source was just unfortunate in looks 😭

[fast dew]

Each time a copy is made of a copy, it degrades just slightly. Ergo grineer clonerot

[tall echo]

Grineer basically start decaying from birth

[stiff fable]

The Prime Grineer are hot actually

[fresh orchid]

Well that’s lovely

[fast dew]

True

[fresh orchid]

Isn’t that the old snake lady and the weird one calling us puppies?

[strange plinth]

-# no his name is ergo glast /s

[stiff beacon]

no

[tall echo]

No those are modern clones

[fast dew]

-#

[fresh orchid]

Have I met the prime grineer yet then?

[tall echo]

The queens used grineer clones to survive

[fast dew]

Biting nibbling

[stiff fable]

Old Peace

[stiff beacon]

have you played old peace yet?

[tall echo]

Restraining

[stiff fable]

Valdur is awesome too

[fresh orchid]

https://tenor.com/view/vitas-lick-tongue-gif-5469528

That’s who he reminds me of

[fast dew]

See i keep mixing his name up with a character from doom and its horrible

[tall echo]

I do not see the resemblance

[fast dew]

They serve the same purpose too 😭

[fresh orchid]

Yeah but I don’t remember much of it bc at the end of the story you feel a bit burnt out

[tall echo]

Lying?

[stiff fable]

They're both named for Norse mythology

[fresh orchid]

It’s a Russian meme singer lmao

[clever linden]

Commander Valdor causes 40k wires to be crossed

[stiff beacon]

all the grineer in that are prime grineer

[fast dew]

Valen, serves as. Commander and serves as the guy in the corner yapping to us

[stiff fable]

but I turned off my brain after 2017 because 2017 was perfect and Eternal was not

[tall echo]

I know, I'm old, I still do not see the resemblance

[fast dew]

-# buddy its 2016

[fresh orchid]

And any after that are the weird clones?

[fast dew]

And yeah eternal mucking SUCKED

[fresh orchid]

Did they lose their ability to have kids?

[fast dew]

Doom 3... my love..

[stiff fable]

not on Switch

[tall echo]

Never had it

[fast dew]

Specifically doom 3 from 2004 not the bfg edition

[fresh orchid]

So the Prime Grineer were born sterile?

[tall echo]

They lost access to high end cloning facilities

[stiff fable]

All Grineer are

[fast dew]

And a lot of it got gene locked

[fresh orchid]

Yeah I’m just trying to figure out how they got started with cloning in the first place

I don’t remember that part of the story

[stiff fable]

The Orokin did it

[fast dew]

Shout out to the orokin

[tall echo]

Way before any point in the story

[stiff fable]

It's in the fragments, not the story

[fast dew]

Mhm

[fresh orchid]

Oh so Orokin war crimes strike again

[tall echo]

Oh lovely, leg cramp

[stiff fable]

When in doubt blame the Orokin

[stiff beacon]

the geneva conventions died during y2k

in warframe

[fast dew]

When in doubt blame Albrecht because. people do that a lot

[clever linden]

I start thinking “wait, which golden armored commander named Valdor is this again?”

[fresh orchid]

Are there really any big bad outside of the Orokin caused everything bad that happened?

Everything ties back to them

[stiff fable]

Nope

[normal bramble]

hi, so if the indifference exists outside of time, how is it "stuck" in the 1999 loop?

[fast dew]

Its not

[stiff fable]

It's not!

[fast dew]

Thats the worst part, its not

[stiff fable]

The Orokin are the cause of every problem in the setting

[fresh orchid]

Would it not be refreshing to have someone else be the big bad for once?

[stiff fable]

The entire story is really about dealing with the mess they caused after a thousand years

[fast dew]

Which is why Roach's theory on Albrecht bringing it into 1999 to trap it was stupid and. Very dumb

[stiff fable]

Honestly nah

[normal bramble]

soooo 1999 is pointless then?

[stiff fable]

It's important for Drifter

[fast dew]

No, we kick it out, Albrecht leaves

[tall echo]

Can someone remove my calves and replace them with cool robot feet so I don't have to deal with this anymore

[fast dew]

Until your thighs cramp

[stiff fable]

And yeah if Drifter hadn't gone then Wally would have retroactively annihilated the universe

[fast dew]

1999 is important for us and for the drifter

[tall echo]

At that point just give me the albrecht special

[fast dew]

Sick

Lemme get the seriglass bell ready

[normal bramble]

how exactly

[tall echo]

I meant the lex

[fast dew]

Awh

I was gonna push you into the void :(

[tall echo]

NIN reference

[fast dew]

Whispers in the walls reference
-# that song is. In whispers right or

[tall echo]

Get fingie
Get full power back bc fingie
Remove reality

[stiff fable]

He would have used Rusalka to hunt down and murder Albrecht's ancestors

[fast dew]

Just murder in general

Very bad very very not good

[tall echo]

Generally with very extreme exclusions yes

[normal bramble]

does it just hate all things

[stiff fable]

The resulting paradox would have rippled across the timeline with unknowable consequences

[fast dew]

Mostly

[tall echo]

No just orokin

[normal bramble]

i always thought it just didn't like the orokin

[fast dew]

It doesn't like. People who used its flesh

[stiff fable]

It wants everything to give up on existing

[tall echo]

But it's malicious for the sake of it so

[fast dew]

And thats. A lot of people

[stiff fable]

To never believe anything is going to be better

To stop caring

[fast dew]

Inevitability.

[normal bramble]

so void manifestation of albrecht's nihilism

[fresh orchid]

Which would make the Entrati family no longer exist outside of 1999 or-?

[tall echo]

I wonder if anyone tried making the self-growing possibly self-replicating fingers into food

[stiff fable]

It would make it so they were never born

[tall echo]

Fear

[fast dew]

Desperation, fear

[strange plinth]

Indifference: "These gifts you have: a piece of me. Given freely."
Indifference: "But those before you were butchers. Flayed flesh... for stolen stars."
Indifference: "But those before you. They did not ask. They butchered me. My flesh fed their greed."

[stiff fable]

One thing about changes to the timeline in Warframe is that it leaves something behind

[fresh orchid]

Ok so exactly what I thought. Then that goes back to if Albrecht accidentally created Wally or if Wally existed before him. Would Wally go back to nothing or would he be free?

[stiff fable]

Free

So maybe rather than Albrecht opening a void portal in Orokin year 2453, the Murmur explode out of Deimos

[fresh orchid]

Which he wants bc he wants to be known as that gives him power? Kinda like a tulpa?

[stiff fable]

Nah, he doesn't need knowing

[fast dew]

Ehhhh

He exists and torments without knowledge

[stiff fable]

That just lets him see you better

[fast dew]

The zariman incident is an example

[fresh orchid]

So he was not acting volatile until after his fingers got chopped off and used?

[fast dew]

He comes up and terrorises us without us knowing of him

[stiff fable]

HE says so

[tall echo]

It didn't exist before then

[stiff fable]

I don't believe him

[fast dew]

Considering thats literally the start of his life lol

[stiff fable]

Because he's lying about what happened, he tried to grab Albrecht

[fresh orchid]

It comes down to believing Orokin or Wally on the correct sequence of events lmao

[misty helm]

Which is curious is that, if it's true that Wally it's just that... CO of Albretch's nihilism and yada-yada; that's a single guy. What happens if somebody else, or a group of people even, somehow CO'd a similar being but with another type of concept? Like, you have a recipe for creating gods right there. Just like the technocrats re-writing and unifying the universal paradigm on Mage: the Ascension.

[fast dew]

Mhm

[fresh orchid]

Was that a cutscene?

[stiff fable]

Almost certainly, he isn't

[tall echo]

"I was chill before I started being"

[fast dew]

Requiem logs..

[stiff fable]

The requiem logs

[tall echo]

-Wally, who knows when

[fresh orchid]

Requiem logs from what?

[stiff beacon]

deimos

[fast dew]

I feel like they hired Stefan based on his audiobook voice tbh

[stiff beacon]

i mean can you blame em

[stiff fable]

Check the walls in the Necraloid room

[fast dew]

Not that im upset but they looked at the requiem logs and looked at Stefan and went. Bet

[normal bramble]

of the glowy art on the walls?

[fresh orchid]

So he had no flesh but existed as a concept kind of like how primordial Greek Gods created themselves from their own essence?

[fast dew]

Mhm, those are his logs

[stiff beacon]

yea

[fast dew]

Theres also Albrecht's notes

[normal bramble]

yea i liked those they were cool

[fast dew]

But those are. Annoying

[tall echo]

No just didn't exist
At all

[fresh orchid]

Oh I haven’t done much with necraloid yet do I need to level that?

[stiff fable]

Yeah

[stiff beacon]

thats a bit of a pain to get

[normal bramble]

kind of confused about how he "fell in" the Void

[stiff fable]

Family and necraloid

[tall echo]

Not after whispers

[stiff beacon]

face first

[fast dew]

Nah, not anymore, not if you did whispers

[fresh orchid]

Oh yeah I’m working on that right now

[fresh orchid]

I’ve done whispers but didn’t level any of my factions much

[fast dew]

In a diving bell made of glass. Glass broke. Fell into the void

[stiff fable]

He opened a portal, went in with a small ship, and there was a tiny accident that broke the container

Literally a portal cut lol

[misty helm]

I can see how it would make everything around Wally kinda lameish. Though* I think the same about all the "Love is your weakness" shenanigans

[tall echo]

"And I fell, sideways, into the void"

[normal bramble]

oh i thought the bell WAS the portal

[fast dew]

Woe

This is the. Portal, or one similar

[normal bramble]

and got thoroughly confused when he said that it shattered

[tall echo]

Gonna one-up albrecht and fall into the void like that one kratos meme

[fresh orchid]

So I’m not the only one confused about how fragmented some of this lore is?

[normal bramble]

the storytelling is a bit off sometimes

[stiff fable]

It's fairly straightforward I feel tbh

[fast dew]

No its pretty coherent

You have Albrecht's requiem logs, and then you have his notes

[normal bramble]

i just have bad reading comprehension sometimes

[fresh orchid]

Not really, it’s kinda all over for some things.

[cosmic badge]

https://tenor.com/view/kratos-gif-26454802

[tall echo]

For wf lore cohesion the issue is generally between chair and monitor

[stiff fable]

But the devs don't feel the need to explain everything

[fast dew]

And it explains almost all of his actions

[stiff fable]

And when they do explain, they don't feel the need to make it go along with long established expectations

[fresh orchid]

It feels like they leave a bit up to personal interpretation instead of hard cut facts sometimes.

[normal bramble]

yea i think that's on purpose

[fast dew]

The devs don't owe us anything lorewise

And I appreciate that

[fresh orchid]

Yeah so when you speak about lore everyone will have a very subjective opinion about it

[stiff fable]

They've said a few times that the official policy is that less is more

[misty helm]

"Wally, make my foundry capable of crafting more than one forma at a time and my life is yours!"

[normal bramble]

my problem is that i need pictures when they start talking about abstract things lol

[tall echo]

DE is doing a miyazaki(fs) but much less infuriatingly

[stiff fable]

Rather than explain they give you the pieces and are happy to let people be wrong

[fresh orchid]

So that means other people could be valid in their interpretation even if it’s not the most common theories

[candid herald]

So me making up my own lore for my operator/drifter is fully in bounds?

[fast dew]

Well the awesome part about Albrecht's requiem logs are. They have pictures!

[stiff fable]

That's basically never happens tho

[normal bramble]

yea but it's only one

[fast dew]

Drifter? No not really, they have their own set lore. So does operator kinda

[fresh orchid]

Pretty sure they’re supposed to fully be your own OC outside of the things they make necessary

[tall echo]

Getting your own soft canon is part of the KIM chats even

[fast dew]

The story must still happen basically

[tall echo]

Aside from main stuff not really

[fast dew]

But outside that you're free to go write whatever

[stiff fable]

So your Drifter can totally have a sibling

[fresh orchid]

Ah so that means all theories are valid theories unless it’s clarified by DE themselves. Nice to know

[stiff fable]

Well no

[fast dew]

Eh drifter has a pretty. Firm history imo

There's space yeah but

[stiff fable]

You had two parents, for example

[tall echo]

Help, help, I'm being misinterpreted

[fast dew]

There's key parts in it

[stiff fable]

Whether you had a sibling is up to you to decide

[candid herald]

Good to know. I was trying to make at least some form of a coherent story outside of the set lore

[normal bramble]

imperial ship pops out of the Void Warp

[stiff fable]

But you lost your family on the Zariman

[fresh orchid]

If it’s fragmented to make your own personal connections to the story and everything isn’t 100% fact driven, then that means it allows for multiple fan theories

[misty helm]

Your drifter has a sibling and at the same time it doesn't ☝️ 🤓

[tall echo]

Do they though?

[stiff fable]

Also you can't have been adopted

[tall echo]

Like, disregarding literal main story and the whole duviri thing

[fresh orchid]

Yeah outside of the preset parts of the story how you connect is up to you. Exactly what I said by “not clarified by DE”

[fast dew]

.. an example is. Mainly duviri. And. Albrecht coming down and teaching us shit

[tall echo]

(More than once*)

[fast dew]

You can't just remove the thing that sets them apart 😭

[stiff fable]

hue

[fast dew]

Hue... hence why mine are blue..

[tall echo]

Saturation

[fast dew]

Luminosity..

[fresh orchid]

Technically you can be adopted again if your adopted parents do a nope.

[tall echo]

Viscosity?

[fast dew]

That word. Struggled on my keyboard

[candid herald]

Shading

[fast dew]

Doom lore dragging me back to the hells

Polarisation

Gradient I got clip studio open rn I can go list the tools

[candid herald]

Erase

[tall echo]

Yea but
We got adopted by marge who then got replaced by marge 2.0(Now with 100% less organic skin!)

(I hope!)

[fast dew]

Liquefy.. Airbrush...

[misty helm]

Now that I think about it.. by that same eternalism shenanigans, the Drifter could theoretically be a complete different gender (sorry, the filter won't let me use the S word) from the Operator's 🤔 Or are they the embodiment of the eternalistic possibility of exactly everything that made the Operator, except for the outcome of the deal with Wally?

[fast dew]

Mine are different so yeah probably

[stiff fable]

"who cares lol"

[candid herald]

I've had three moms, biological, adopted 1 orokin then adopted 2 sentient

[fast dew]

I got. My sister and my shitass parents

I wish we could have more siblings...

We have thrax actually

[fresh orchid]

didn't she hide as margulis for a second too?

[fast dew]

Close enough

[tall echo]

Hence marge 2.0

[candid herald]

All tenno are siblings trust (idk what I'm saying)

[tall echo]

Cannibalism typo

[fast dew]

We all children of the lotus true

[candid herald]

Dam didn't notice thx

[fresh orchid]

yeah I call that Lotus as Margulis bc it makes more sense to my brain lmao

[fast dew]

HWUH

[fresh orchid]

wouldn't that be wild if they were though?

[fast dew]

The show im watching mentioned my city thats scary

[fresh orchid]

not all the kids ended up as tenno though right?

[fast dew]

Anyways warframe™

[tall echo]

That would make the two tenno that got married a bit concerning

[candid herald]

I mean kinda cause I mean there's more than just one tenno

[tall echo]

They did

[lean garden]

by virtue of being space magic children from the zariman they are tenno