lore-discussion

[twin wigeon]

-# yeahhhh idk what larping means

[pale cedar]

He is the 9hour guy https://youtu.be/5IWz8Bx4uvU?si=fL1vF5yfW6_0GWf9

[narrow pendant]

larping is basically just roleplaying

[strange plinth]

no, no, that was a correct use

[twin wigeon]

:3

[pale cedar]

Socra spent 9 hours talking about mostly gameplay

[strange plinth]

is there a different super long summary guy because i swear there's another i've seen

[pale cedar]

He even had a ton of corrections

I remember him saying Lotus and Margulis are the same person

[narrow pendant]

oh damn lmao

oh well i really liked his 1999 work bc i like history and how he compared them to irl stuff

[woven coyote]

That is the unfortunate thing about his videos yeah
He cares about irl over the game lore

[twin wigeon]

thats just wikipedia

[strange plinth]

tbf 1999 is probably the one you can compare to irl stuff without too much issue

[pale cedar]

After he got corrected he made it 5 hours with almost the same stuff just shortened

[narrow pendant]

he shows real world examples or inspirations of things ingame is what i mean

[cunning ore]

Wwith this i can avoid more loretubers

Ngl, my brain got messed by them mostly

[narrow pendant]

yes we can tell by your username

[drowsy saddle]

Emphasis on too, cause its obvious that 1999 is already separated from our reality, hell warframe probably diverged around the time jesus got poked

[narrow pendant]

no sane person likes ballas

[cunning ore]

Nah ah, i still like him

[twin wigeon]

i like him

[narrow pendant]

https://tenor.com/view/warframe-shadow-stalker-new-war-hunhow-gif-27625690

[cunning ore]

I used to have a narcissistic ex tho, he flashy, cute and quite mental-issue. He quire the type of too perfect to exist l

[twin wigeon]

that said, i am just a goos ✨ 🪿 ✨

[cunning ore]

https://tenor.com/view/goose-honk-inhale-inhales-untitled-gif-16237480

[narrow pendant]

i am desperately hoping for EndyD20s lore video to be the first to be actually correct on stuff which he very much has the potential to

[strange plinth]

i like ballas from the perspective of him being a fantastic character that makes sense
he is completely insufferable as a person, though

[narrow pendant]

he made notes and figured the games lore throughout all of his gameplay after all

[cunning ore]

He the most human in Orokin, in the darkside

[narrow pendant]

thats dair
but love is too far

[twin wigeon]

i like him just bc he looks cool throughout his appearance and bc he made most my favorite warframes ;3

like Narmer Ballas is my fav with Old Peace Ballas as second

[zenith ore]

A blue tall weird looking alien thingy

[cunning ore]

I would just stick with Wiki and in-game documents. Since i got trust issues with those..spreading lore and yea, how it always ended up as analysising Ballas like "ignorant" by Hunhow's word but not deeply in his mental and other things.

[zenith ore]

Is he even blue or dark green I'm not sure

[narrow pendant]

blue in old peace, rest of game is more dark greenish

[trim zenith]

just got done with jades shadows and....i cant velieve im saying thi but my respoect is being handed to stalker here

[cunning ore]

I like Orokin Ballas, and The Old Peace Ballas. The Narmer kinda attractive but to me it look quite pity and hurt for him.

[narrow pendant]

all orokin changed their skincolor and most also got the one long arm as status and to look more than human, as they were treated as gods

[zenith ore]

Hell yeah

[cunning ore]

Everyone respects Stalker. He is the best

[woven coyote]

It was nice that he was actually paying attention and taking notes

[trim zenith]

but umbra will definetly not like it if he found of what he did to us in the past

[twin wigeon]

i like the sentient-orokin flesh gradient and his two legs sticking out

[pale cedar]

Earlier someone thought Stalker was dead because he wasn’t seen for a while

[zenith ore]

Why did they desperately wanted to look like humans?

[twin wigeon]

they didn't

[narrow pendant]

the orokin are all humans

[woven coyote]

People really having trouble with object permanence huh

[pale cedar]

They are humans

[trim zenith]

https://tenor.com/view/family-guy-gun-gif-27116588

[twin wigeon]

Sentients wanted to look human

[narrow pendant]

there are in fact, no alien life forms beside the xenoflora, and if you will, void creatures even though they are technically caused/ created by humans

[trim zenith]

umbra if he found out about stalker's bullying to operator:

[pale cedar]

Sentients wanted to kill humans

[strange plinth]

alad v being completely absent since new war yet he's still around:

[cunning ore]

Of course he might not like it

[zenith ore]

Ah right, I have some problem remembering names and such

[cunning ore]

You like Amalga, in short.

[trim zenith]

actually i think i got the art of that representation hold up

[zenith ore]

Today I found out that umbra follows you if you are in ur oprator / drifter form

[trim zenith]

Found it

[twin wigeon]

its in his passive description

[cunning ore]

You can sacrifice that for 15% ability strength

[strange plinth]

i hate that golden leg and that's basically my only gripe with that design

[narrow pendant]

yeah hes the only one to do so, his ai isnt the best though but its better than nothing. Its a good option if youre planning to stay in operator or necramech

[zenith ore]

Didn't use him much, thought he was just like normal Excalibur

[twin wigeon]

and i love the fact that he could've chopped it off at any point in his rise to power

[narrow pendant]

his scream is also altered in that it also resets sentient adaptations

[cunning ore]

I think he will accept Stalker after the Jade Shadow since they shared almost same fate but yea same ending of being leashed.

[twin wigeon]

oh i hate umbra/excal in general

[pale cedar]

He does it in the quest too running towards you to protect you from the explosion at end of quest

[trim zenith]

well that depends if pre-new war or post-new war

[zenith ore]

Yeah I saw that but I thought he's ummm...done for? After the quest

[cunning ore]

Once my brother told me, let Umbra to use Ferlax when roaming on Orb Valis. You will find out he can blasted Corpus Ship faster than us.

[cunning ore]

Just after Jade Shadow, unless you mean the Second Dream?

[misty helm]

He also could've had performed continuity too I guess; Idk why he stayed looking like a strange sentient-satyr amalgam

[zenith ore]

Volt was my fist ever frame he was so good, I'd choose him every time. Excalibur is like for players who like to play on medium speed and stuff

[trim zenith]

yes

[pale cedar]

He couldn’t there’s no body markets anymore as we shut them down

[cunning ore]

The fanart you sent, well,..the artist shipped herself with Umbra so...

[narrow pendant]

volt may run fast, but excal dash cancelling is funny af and can be even faster at times lol

[cunning ore]

It like CharOc, like i created an OC to ship it with Ballas. So

Umm, it not count?

[misty helm]

Isn't continuity just usurping the body of another human being in some creepy ritual?

[trim zenith]

ballas get out of here budha smurf

[pale cedar]

There’s nobody to perform the ritual nor anyone to body swap into

[trim zenith]

but also i didn't thought about that situation here

[pale cedar]

That’s why I said the body markets were shut down

[cunning ore]

So yea, i think Umbra have no big deal with Stalker. And after the New War, yes, even not meet since he be busy with being a dad.

[strange plinth]

the sentient amalgam bits might interfere with continuity as well
we know infestation does

[zenith ore]

What did u name the child btw

[misty helm]

How, though? There's thousands of colonies around the system; available bodies he had... More so, if you take into account the fact he apparently had brainwashed the majority of the system population

[pale cedar]

Ballas used the best healthcare he could get in modern Origin System

[pale cedar]

We shut the markets down

[misty helm]

That doesn't change anything

[cunning ore]

I chose Orion. Sirius got red aura of Sorren (Stalker) as i remember? Orion indeed have Jade's aura.

[zenith ore]

Nay it's Orion with the red aura

[pale cedar]

It did because there was no Kuva to use till way after he was injured

You need a body and Kuva

[strange plinth]

he seemed proud of his narmer appearance, in one way or another. i'm not sure if he'd be looking to perform continuity anyway
that stupid hat..

[cunning ore]

Then i choose Jade's aura. I just remember that

[zenith ore]

[cunning ore]

No, he seek for a suicide

For Orokin standard, he was living quite like a rat as even the Narmer Emperor

[pale cedar]

There was just no way for him to do it till the War began and he was unable to walk already at that point

[strange turtle]

You also need a secure and good location, for both safety from others and the risks of the ritual itself

[misty helm]

The queens can gather kuva with the siphons (Worm still does, as far as I know)... and Narmer had control of the grineer forces

[cunning ore]

Oh, and he got pierced by Umbra so yea, it like Erra or Lotus turn him into Amalga so i doubt there something could help anymore..

[misty helm]

kurwa siphon...
heh

[strange plinth]

ballas calling up voruna prime to defend a continuity ritual /s

[strange turtle]

And Ballas wouldn’t have had to deal with said risks for a good while because of the Seven’s access to the two superspots which he wouldn’t have

[cunning ore]

😭 My cutie

[pale cedar]

There’s having control of the forces then there’s having control of the Fortress

[misty helm]

Yeah, I do wonder what happened in that aspect 🤔

He also had Cetus under the brainwash too

[strange plinth]

iirc there's no murex around the fortress

[misty helm]

Unless he couldn't access the Unum

[pale cedar]

They would’ve just stayed on the move thus we’re untouchable

[cunning ore]

I heard from my brother that. There a theory that each Executor have their own Voidkey, is that true?

[pale cedar]

Ballas didn’t have access to any of the forces stationed on the Fortress

That’s why you never see a Murex near the Fortress

[narrow pendant]

the fortresses whole deal is that its hidden

[misty helm]

Which I doubt, in a sense, given he's Orokin... and that he had the rank of Executor...

Unless, of course, that the Tenno purge somehow erradicated whatevet database the Orokin-era systems had to confirm his identity and such

[narrow pendant]

thats why its in the asteroid belt to begin with

[pale cedar]

Ballas didn’t have acess to Unum till the War

Had to put her to sleep first

[misty helm]

True, though... Erra's forces did attacked the Unum

[narrow pendant]

not of the kuva grineer, but of all regular forces yes

[misty helm]

Guess you need whatever system the Unum-OS had to operate the Kuva-digging the Unum had?

[narrow pendant]

the Unum has temple kuva which is some sort of super kuva lol

which is also the source of her time stopping powers she had in TNW

[misty helm]

That be it, of course, in the case Narmer logistics cannot extract the Kuva off the Unum manually

[pale cedar]

Nothing suggests this

Unum is an entity not the tower

[narrow pendant]

isnt the tower the body of her

i treat it as her body since its majorly out of regenerating flesh

[pale cedar]

No, she’s an entity that controls the tower

[misty helm]

For this referencial purposes, understanding that by 'Unum' I'm referring to the tower too... as an entire system conformed of both factors

[narrow pendant]

oh well

[pale cedar]

It’s like Thrax isn’t the Throne but he sits on it

[narrow pendant]

the temple kuva is at least the only explaination we can come up with for the souce of her powers

that would be the right formulation

[ocean geyser]

She’s sorta just weird
Although i wonder if Narmer at least attempted to attack the Kuva Fortress

Sure finding it is an issue but when you have the whole system under control

Only a matter of time i guess

[misty helm]

If you fry the OS, the tower may still be potentially force-operated, unless there's an untold factor there that impedes said thing; whatever it is... the kuva can be obtained if Ballas really tried

Guess he just enjoyed being a satyr-looking thing

[narrow pendant]

i assume the kuva'd up grineer there werent able to be subjected to narmers masks

[pale cedar]

The source of her powers being Kuva makes no sense if you think about it

[narrow pendant]

temple kuva works in ways we dont fully understand either

[ocean geyser]

Beyond the liches, they’re not actually kuva’d up

It’s like a royal guard division type thing

[narrow pendant]

they got weapons with kuva, some at least such as the guys throwing those anti continuity spears

[ocean geyser]

Transference

[misty helm]

Yeah, that could be it too. Assuming, of course, that he even tried to do so. I highly doubt the fortress cannot be found when you have an individual like Ballas making the moves of the "Narmer Empire". Like, despite his highly dubious moral compass and ethical choices... he was still a "master mind" of sorts

[ocean geyser]

Not continuity

[narrow pendant]

if he was aware of it during his hiding or while he came to power under narmer. I cant really come up with any reason for him not to take over it if he knew of it

[ocean geyser]

Again, no, that’s just the liches

If anything the Kuva grineer use wraith weapons

[strange plinth]

iirc there's only two locations on the star chart that do not have murexes around them during TNW
deimos and the kuva fortress
deimos doesn't have much of interest ||and also fights back. the wyrms don't like visitors, apparently.|| < post-loid reunion
the fortress might have useful stuff, but is pretty good at hiding itself

[tall echo]

canonically even we don't know where the fortress actually is, it's purely gameplay that we have missions there

[misty helm]

Exactly! That too! He has had all this time... a thousand years to "plan" and make a map of the entire Origin system current big players

[ocean geyser]

I mean he didn’t bother with Deimos
Then again Deimos is like
Hell

I doubt he knew the Entrati were still alive anyway

[narrow pendant]

i am very positive that their "kuva trokars" with their name already implying its the same as the lich weapons, have some form of kuva tech in them bc of their tip looking like kuva and looking like that scepter the elder queen held up agains the operator during the war within

[ocean geyser]

That’s an amphis

[misty helm]

Like, even knowing that he had been hidding all this time; escaping the Tenno purge somehow... And also somehow kept hidden from EVERYTHING, all until we first saw him back in the Apostasy Prologue.

Like, how he managed to keep on living? Which kinda hints he may know how to get Kuva from

[narrow pendant]

https://wiki.warframe.com/w/Kuva_Trokar

[strange turtle]

I mean I figured that was just, us taking potshots when we get an opening

[strange plinth]

he didn't 'escape' the night of naga drums. he wasn't a target to begin with
the naga drums were his plan

[pale cedar]

"I stand before you... last of my kind. An orphan of Tenno massacres. But their violence did not end with me, did it? It carried on... to all of you."

[ocean geyser]

They just shoved a whole bunch of nonsense i to it iirc

[ocean geyser]

Yeah

[narrow pendant]

he may have been able to observe the infested entrati but it wouldnt be something he would mention to others since it would only hinder his propaganda

[strange turtle]

Like that one mission where it’s shooting a colony for some reason, us noticing it getting close enough to aim now that we know what to look out for and using the small time gap to infiltrate and sabotage it before getting out

[pale cedar]

He really couldn’t when it seems he was stuck on the Moon in the Void

[narrow pendant]

i ment after his rise in TNW

[pale cedar]

All he could see was blue

[strange turtle]

It’d only hinders it if he stuck to “last Orokin alive”. He could just as easily swap to “last true/loyal/whatever Orokin”

[pale cedar]

After his rise he was too afraid to touch Deimos and Eris

[narrow pendant]

his ego would make him claim to be the last to be more dramatic

[pale cedar]

It was a pretty safe assumption tbh

[cunning ore]

I only saw it as his blaming for Tenno at last of his plan in destroying the Origin System. If he chose that path of devouring the Sol

My understand for him more based on psychological so imma just roll out, but nice theories everyone

[pale cedar]

It’s funny him blaming the Tenno because he’s the reason for the Naga Drums

[cunning ore]

Well, Tenno took mah wife, so everything their faults

Yea in short of him, wasn't it right?

[narrow pendant]

not even the AI gf loved him over the children

[cunning ore]

Even Hunhow have a long time to finally realize his "ignorant"

😔

[pale cedar]

He could’ve saved Margulis by just voting no so it’s his fault she died

[cunning ore]

Well, at the apart of the reason that triggering that, well, Margulis protected Tenno over his worries for her. And maybe there some heavy words and he got hurt

[pale cedar]

Man child Ballas

[cunning ore]

With his ego and my experience with my narcissistic ex

Yep, that how it gonna end

[pale cedar]

Also remember
His brain is way over 1000 years old

Had so long to develop

[cunning ore]

And it being umm...yk, people said when some got love in, they just..less have a mind

Poor him, mayb 1000 years and finally got a gf, about to get married then

🤷‍♀️ normal people would feel it a fine, but yk, it with Orokin traits, i doubt

[pale cedar]

He got mad when someone loved him a little less

[cunning ore]

No, just specialized it like Margulis only, he is the type like Roathe said

If Margulis told him to k.ill a toddle, he would do

Yea like that

I cannot remember clearly of it

[pale cedar]

Ballas has killed children

[cunning ore]

No, not that. It an example of how much Ballas would do for Margulis

Like he even did some changes to make him can be possible to have Margulis as his partner/fiance

Yea all those are from Roathe's conversations tho

[pale cedar]

In the end he killed her anyway

[cunning ore]

So it back to a theory: if it a trick or it a mental ill

Yk, even that time therapist tend to vanquish themselves or being turned like Follie

So yea like the Orokin just went worse and worse tho, till those plans of Roathe fit well with Niktoh

[pale cedar]

I doubt the Orokin were ever truly good

[cunning ore]

Now it back to a thing calles social standards. So it complicated

But yea, with our standards, there none of them truly good

[pale cedar]

Orokin definitely got worse with time due to becoming Indifferent

[narrow pendant]

well less the brain and more his soul/psyche

[cunning ore]

Or the corrosion of having more and more sickness thoughts growing from living too long. Like Niktoh with her random "What if we kill Orokin"

[narrow pendant]

https://tenor.com/view/warframe-wally-wall-warframe-wally-slay-gif-17731710966554021720

[narrow pendant]

cant a woman not have her hobbies

[cunning ore]

So yea it back again with the psychological thing. So it really really dull at this time. Whether you choose to trust Roathe or not

[cunning ore]

🙁 You discrimination!

I got iq issue anyway so i don't mind '7' i'm a happy catto and wish to see more of lores, especially about Ballas. And Orokin

[pale cedar]

Roathe is basically DE’s this is the correct answer guy

[cunning ore]

But he is an Orokin, so there sometimes i doubt if i would believe him

[pale cedar]

All humans lie

[cunning ore]

But he also the only source of informations and gladly with some of them, we have Perita as memories from Operator to double-check it.

[cunning ore]

Yea that how we Orokin but we still ew ourselves

Even in human standard, we still have morons and Einstein's files so well, what else..

But good night, lovely people. Imma go to dream my cutie 💛💛💛

[narrow pendant]

the orokin represent the flaws of humans but turned to 1000

[cunning ore]

I think i see more worst of it, the Orokin were evil but the real life..there still more unbelievable things

Oh and i found an article of the long hand syndromes, lol, it even from a criminal

[restive river]

They totally aren’t an analog to the rich, powerful and tyrannical of our time
lol

[twin wigeon]

anyone know who matthew chalmers is? like does he exist outside of the soundtrack?

[restive river]

He’s a real guy afaik lol

[twin wigeon]

today is not the day i find out chalmers also voices for adult audiobooks

[stiff beacon]

I doubt it

[twin wigeon]

idk... i found out the bug and butler are narrators for audiobook smut not too long ago

[woven coyote]

He was one of the team members who was on stage in tennoconcert

[twin wigeon]

i remember that but does he have any other past work or was he made in a lab in DE headquarters to replace other potential artists

[restive river]

What lol

[twin wigeon]

like the Coda

[restive river]

DE is not the DE in game

[twin wigeon]

well our DE made Dark Sector, their DE made War Sector or smtth

[restive river]

Exactly lol

[strange turtle]

as far as we know

[twin wigeon]

nows not the time for an outbreak of the technocyte virus

[restive river]

Like they said, ours made Dark Sector
The other made War Sector

[restive river]

It might fix things you don’t know

It just wants to share its gift

:)

[twin wigeon]

"EMBRACE~" -🎸

[restive river]

Join us
Embrace us

I love that the Infestation uses the boyband hand symbol when it makes a cult in the future

[twin wigeon]

Arlo's Flame Protectsss usssss

This is but a breath
before the next.

lowkey, Preloid's voicelines are really cool

[restive river]

Ye

[humble sierra]

He was genetically engineered to make music so good you forget it's for a video game

[twin wigeon]

mhm, just as i suspected

[ashen pulsar]

temple and the rippers vs on-lyne, who would win

[humble sierra]

1v5

[ashen pulsar]

well now it is

lwk tho flare would solo

[humble sierra]

They don't have a choice

[ashen pulsar]

literally

and metaphorically

[ashen pulsar]

thats not the word for that

[humble sierra]

Figuratively is probably the one you're thinking of

[ashen pulsar]

no

cuz "solo" isnt quite figurative

its more of a double entendre

I could say "flare would solo in two ways"

[worn cypress]

in the old peace
how|| did tenno and adis knew that the orokin betrayed them as soon as they leaved the ship ?||

[lean garden]

Be tenno
Be given "shutdown" codes to turn off egg
Input codes
Is actually activation code

What would be the logical conclusion here?

[worn cypress]

but activate what exactly ?

[normal mountain]

The Xenoflora started dying, and Tenno's mask deactivates

[worn cypress]

and what did adis mean by saying how many ' forget what she said"

[normal mountain]

Meaning that the air was now breathable for humans

[worn cypress]

whats xenoflora

[normal mountain]

...the flowers

[worn cypress]

and what does it mean

[humble sierra]

It gives Sentients freedom from the hive mind

[worn cypress]

whats hive mind 🙂

i am hearing some things for the first time

[normal mountain]

Next time, do yourself a favor
Don't skip the dialogue

You'll retain much more

Respectfully

[worn cypress]

i didnt

thats the problem ive read everything

[humble sierra]

Are you playing the game in English? It could be that some things are lost in translation

[worn cypress]

yes

[lean garden]

what is your primary language

[worn cypress]

arabic

[lean garden]

no wonder

[worn cypress]

at what part exactly did the quest talk about the hive and xenoflora

[lean garden]

theres no arabic support

[worn cypress]

yeh but i understand english

[ashen pulsar]

"'Xenoflora'. Flowers. The only real alien life we've ever found, and the Sents scarf them down like kubrow chow! Just as well for us they did, eh, Tenno? Suddenly they've all got minds of their own, so no more hivemind, so no more war.”

[worn cypress]

i feel sad for adis

[twin wigeon]

flower

[worn cypress]

truth

[drifting lintel]

"What could a Warframe, a lethal specialist warrior, possibly have in common with a child? That riddle, I fear, must remain a riddle."

do you think this is a refrenct to the operator or is nezha just made from a kid?

[strange plinth]

intentionally vague
iirc that nezha is probably operator-controlled based on when the leverian takes place, though?

[drifting lintel]

yeah it was post orokin

[lean garden]

should be referring to the operator

similar to ash's leverian

because drusus doesnt know about the tenno

and assumes the warframes are just like that

[strange plinth]

its only voruna's leverian where he Knows
and even then he's like 'that's weird lol'

[stiff beacon]

probably because of dante

[stiff beacon]

or could be argued he knew the difference between a tenno controlled frame and a gen1 frame with its mental faculties intact but is just keeping the whole tenno are separate beings thing underwraps

because he was friends with dante and loid, with loid knowing the truth about the tenno

probably from albrecht

[fast dew]

Loid also refused to explain a lot to Drusus, using. Ah. I think its*"We end as we began."* in response to some questions Drusus had about what was happening

[stiff beacon]

fair though at the very least dante couldve told drusus

[twin wigeon]

i mean Dante is hardly the speaking type

[fast dew]

True, but if he does struggle to differentiate between the two, I don't think dante would've told him. Im also unsure if dante would actually. Know

[twin wigeon]

he's more hoots and chirps

[fast dew]

Drusus getting into debt and going to Loid because. His lover had money was pretty funny

"Look! entrati doodads!"
– Drusus to Parvos

[lean garden]

nah, I wouldnt argue that at all

Dante influenced drusus enough for drusus to just not think about the tenno

[cunning ore]

Are we talking about the commons between warframes and Tennos?

[narrow pendant]

i ment the flaws of every human

[dark compass]

No it's rich people normalizing those flaws in the eyes of public

No it's not normal to throw everyone under the bus for your own sake

[fast dew]

Tldr screw rich people

[dark compass]

If we were the way those rich people try to tell us we are, society wouldn't have been built

We wouldn't have had funerary rites

[fast dew]

Theres occasionally good rich people, but you still gotta keep them at an arms length

[dark compass]

Because who cares about some dead person who isn't of any use

[fast dew]

Im poor and I think a lot of people would watch me get cremated and thrown into the ocean

[dark compass]

It's also about presentation you know

[fast dew]

True

[tall echo]

orokin arm's length

[radiant pier]

this is so funny

Roathe went offline cuz Loid was giving him a bad look

this means they legit hop on the computer/phone and just....type lmao

what a sight to imagine

[tall echo]

computer

[radiant pier]

that's even better

[smoky gulch]

Dang, Nihil boss fight was cool - no wonder DE stopped making these for limited time availability

Nora, what the hell is this reference

[fast dew]

Looming. Loid was Looming over him. That's not giving Roach a bad look. He was standing behind him 😭

[radiant pier]

OH THAT'S WAY FUNNIER

[fast dew]

"Terror of the Orokin" makes sense now that we know glassing was a super bad punishment

Even the orokin were scared of it lol

[smoky gulch]

I don't really get the terror of glassing: if you get completely converted to new personality, like Ordan was, you aren't even aware of it. Your life ends and a brainwashed facsimile of you might wake up sweating thousands years later

[fast dew]

Specifically in a threatening or dangerous way

[fast dew]

Its the aspect of memory manipulation that makes it bad. It was a huge aspect of orokin society

[fast dew]

Loid just not caring for orokin rank he will hover behind you threateningly to get you to leave

[fast dew]

There's also the complete loss of bodily autonomy

[smoky gulch]

Hmmm, maybe coz I perceive it as "I die and a manipulated being formed from me gets born" that it doesn't feel as harsh

[fast dew]

Oh its not. Born from you, it still is you

Your body and all

[smoky gulch]

Indeed, the continuity of consciousness is assumed here, but: is it any different from me being me 7 years ago and now? Completely changed, but, in case of memory manipulation, not even aware a change happened

So the punishment becomes the fear of execution happening as after it happens you won't even know it used to be different (until millennia start to crack the shell as was in case of Ordis)

[fast dew]

Ehh, no

Executions weren't unheard of

[smoky gulch]

Execution of glassing sentence, not capital punishment in this meaning

[fast dew]

Death wasnt a fear for the orokin, even then, with those outside, it would be instantaneous

Jade light was a mercy compared to what glassing was, is. What roach said, or similar

[smoky gulch]

From what I saw so far, most Cephalons aren't even aware of their human origin - are they punished, or is the punishment knowing you will become a puppet like that? Or that memory of you existing will be twisted into one?

But eh, still drilling through the Hex convos before I get to Roathe PoV

So I'm coming from incomplete information standpoint

[twin wigeon]

They are punished, to live a life of eternal servitude, unknowing of their previous lives. As far as we can tell, Cephalons don’t remember what got them glassed, except for Ordis. He was damaged I think and his memories are coming back, memories of his life as Ordan Karris, the Beast of Bones

He regains these memories with our help, via the codex scanners collecting his memory fragments

[strange plinth]

he purges those memories every time he remembers, iirc

[tall echo]

some cephalons are punishment, some are by choice

[fast dew]

Depending on what you see necraloid as [i personally do not see him as a cephalon], he is aware of his past, and it was a deliberate action to suppress that, via a precept. Which no longer functions

[smoky gulch]

Hmmm, perhaps I don't get it as I think of punishment in terms of suffering inflicted upon punished? After all, a Cephalon is docile and unknowing of its origin, so it can't hurt for what it doesn't know

[fast dew]

It hurts.

It hurts a lot.

Glassing is just one part

[twin wigeon]

Oh yeah glassing is not painless let’s get that straight

[fast dew]

Roach was. Scared? Intimidated? By Nihil's cephalon program

Roach of all people, active soldier on the front line

[twin wigeon]

Roach, who served under Nitokh, who is apparently infinitely worse than Ballas, was scared of this

[tall echo]

they know that something is wrong if it's as punishment, and they are forced into behaving completely differently

[fast dew]

Like. It can be painless

[strange plinth]

i think that's part of the punishment
You stop being. You
it isn't that you cease to exist entirely, but you're near unrecognizable
your passions and personality, remolded into a docile servant to do your task and nothing more

[fast dew]

But this is Nihil. He isnt known for being kind.

He's notoriously... mm.

[lean garden]

"even performed non-destructively" 📝

[tall echo]

but he's so kindly offering to tell us where the other glassed victims are :)

[fast dew]

Not sadistic, i wouldn't call him that but. Bad. He's bad.

[twin wigeon]

Yk, maybe the reason Cephaloning was viewed as a punishment bc the Orokin valued indulgence and so being forced into a sort of crystal-computer- thingy unable to feel for all of eternity would be torture

[strange plinth]

-# watch how kind he gets

[fast dew]

Depends on what. Non destructive means

[smoky gulch]

He does sound like "return to tradition" neofascist during boss battle, just from that cursory acquintance

[fast dew]

His voice is nice, i can handle that line

[fast dew]

Hes obsessed with rules, despite the fact he is breaking rules

[twin wigeon]

I miss glassmaker

[fast dew]

You miss a lot of other lines he has

Hes so condescending

[glass sluice]

"I tried one of your archwings on, they do grip tight in the hips, if you ever wanted to....nevermind"
damn Aoi, you gotta calm down girl.

[fast dew]

Like okay blueberry

[twin wigeon]

Oh yeah as an executor, he would’ve be executed sometime ago

[fast dew]

GOD DAMMIT

[lean garden]

missing a few letters there

[smoky gulch]

That's the curse of being 7 years away :P At least archived data is pretty intact

[twin wigeon]

Nora Night notes this hypocrisy funnily enough

[fast dew]

Just when I forgot about that retcon 💔

[smoky gulch]

So I can reread a lot of stuff

[twin wigeon]

My fault, he’s not one of the seven

I bad at spelling

;-;

[fast dew]

Doesn't. Doesn't Nora say that Nihil is worse than an executioner

[twin wigeon]

Nora Night says a lot of things ngl, and most are likely true about him

Nihil just sucks, professionally and in general

[fast dew]

He is pretty though

[glass sluice]

Nora also called me a badass for bullet-jumping 150 times, so let's not rate her too highly.

[twin wigeon]

Oh yeah no true

[radiant pier]

the temptation

[fast dew]

All the pretty men in warframe are.

Fascist

Wonder what this means

[radiant pier]

to say "nah, let's both be damsels" to Aoi

is immense, to say the least

[smoky gulch]

Oh, on topic of lines: are Teshin rants in cave between Duviri runs written down?

[twin wigeon]

Even Arthur? Oh wait he is British ig

[strange plinth]

"Nihil. Worse than an executioner, worse even than an Excruciator. When my tired ol' grandma didn't have time for nonsense Nihil was the bogeyman she said was gonna come put naughty Nora in a bottle. But Nihil was real. He's still here, somehow, after all this time... and still passing judgment. We've got another victim, crystallized in exile. This one feels different. Can't put my finger on why. Get on up now. Determine his pattern. Gather the clues and get back into Nihil's Weave. We can't find him and there ain't no lockin' him back in whatever bottle he came from."
yes

[fast dew]

BAHAJR But seriously I do not trust soldiers in general

[glass sluice]

Ironically, there indeed WAS a way to lock him in a bottle.

[twin wigeon]

Tap tap tap

[strange plinth]

i do not know why Excruciator is capitalized

[fast dew]

Of any military, i do not trust them

[glass sluice]

I keep it next to my Kubrows bed, so he gets the full experience of smells.

[smoky gulch]

I tried Teshin/Quotes/Duviri, but there's no Teshin approached rants here

[strange plinth]

yes but they're in a weird spot, i'll find it

[fast dew]

Is it. Perhaps like. When I forget a word and need to put a word before it but its capitalised...?

[strange plinth]

here

[smoky gulch]

Found it https://wiki.warframe.com/w/Teshin's_Cave/Quotes

[strange plinth]

lmao

[twin wigeon]

Jinx

[smoky gulch]

Why is it separate page

[tall echo]

ew wiki
but it's quotes at least

[strange plinth]

its the one thing i trust the wiki with

[twin wigeon]

Orokin archives my goat

[fast dew]

Mm, have they added Mother's new lines yet?

[strange plinth]

i think so, yes

[twin wigeon]

In the uhhhhh loid reunion?

[fast dew]

YAYYY

YUPPIE

[twin wigeon]

Yipe

[fast dew]

New lines now, from shadowgrapher

[twin wigeon]

Oh?

What for?

And mother??? Of all people?

[strange plinth]

all of the family, yea

[strange turtle]

It’s a title

[strange plinth]

range of topics

[twin wigeon]

Did they visit follie at some point?

Honestly they should

Get that therapy they need

[fast dew]

Of every family member

I just like mother and father the most

[strange plinth]

nothing related to follie afaik, just more lines for post-loid family

[twin wigeon]

Oh

[fast dew]

"So, my husband's preoccupation with the ruins is explained. He was containing these 'Murmur'. Once again I have been lied to, for my own supposed protection."

What. What ruins

[strange plinth]

iso vaults prolly?

[fast dew]

Mm, isn't that mother though?

[strange plinth]

she starts the bounties with "find out what he has been up to"

[twin wigeon]

Oh????? Father knew of the Murmur???

That’s really cool

[fast dew]

I always assumed he meant. Albrecht tbh

[twin wigeon]

Same

[fast dew]

"Sorry if the Arcocanids have been giving you a hard time. Tough little suckers, aren't they? Gotta hand it to 'em."

[strange plinth]

yea, but it makes sense with Father as well, if he was actively involved with keeping the murmur back

[fast dew]

He also designed the quadruped necramech

[twin wigeon]

lol, they’re still his goobers

[lean garden]

I thought so at the start, and then I realised she wouldnt be sending you down to deimos's hellscape to find out someone's activities if she didn't even know where he was in the system

[fast dew]

I think my favourite line is. Daughter being upset Loid screwed her grandfather lol

[twin wigeon]

LMFAOOOO

[strange plinth]

who has the wyrms-shooting-a-murex line

[fast dew]

Not because. Thats family

Because she thought Loid had standards

[twin wigeon]

BWAHAHAHAHA

I LOVE THEMMMM

[fast dew]

"Did I tell you Ballas sent one of his Narmer Murexes sniffing around here?"
"Vome and Fass blew it clear out of the sky!"
"Only thing they hate worse than each other is having their territory invaded."

[tall echo]

why is it so greyed out

[lean garden]

Sentients during the New War:
"Hey did we take deimos?"
"Nah, we got shot at by two big ass worms"

[twin wigeon]

explains why there’s no narmer infested ig

[fast dew]

Theres also. Loid being canonically.. "ravishing"

[tall echo]

also just difficult to manipulate a hivemind

[twin wigeon]

Anything from Dagath? Or Otak?

[tall echo]

grandma

[fast dew]

None from otak, a few from grandmother

[strange plinth]

effective deterrent
does eris have a murex around it during TNW? perhaps--

[tall echo]

she gave away her name

[twin wigeon]

😛

I know she did but Dagath spells faster than grandma

[tall echo]

it's like a deadname but with fae consequences

[dark compass]

Faename

[twin wigeon]

lol?

[strange plinth]

"Isn't Bird 3 delightful? Utterly without guile. I can't think of a creature whose company I enjoy half so much! Other than you, dear."
mmm

[dark compass]

Everyone loves Bird the Third

[lean garden]

POV: You're a Narmer Murex over deimos

[twin wigeon]

Did they meet Tagfer?

Or fishonachee

[strange plinth]

presumably, though grandmother doesn't mention either of them as far as i can tell

[twin wigeon]

Boo

[fast dew]

"Their relationship was against the Legems, true. But in a society obsessed with hierarchies, it was hardly possible not to transgress some rule or another with every step one took."

OH NO.

OH THATS NOT GOOD

"Albrecht Entrati made his bed, in several unfortunate senses, and now we are all going to have to lie in it."

What... other senses are there...

[cunning ore]

Hello, what is today topic?

[twin wigeon]

Wut?

[fast dew]

"Now, Roathe is a man who knows the value of a well crafted weapon. Never mind the whole 'treason' thing, that was blown way out of proportion."

Father.

Vilcor. Petros. What.

[drowsy saddle]

Blud

[strange plinth]

prolly his disappearance

[twin wigeon]

I ont understand

[cunning ore]

Why i sensed yaoi

[strange plinth]

or being involved with the anarchs
one or the other

[fast dew]

He committed treason full stop what do you mean blown out of proportion

[twin wigeon]

No Ballas yaoi

[cinder tulip]

who do yall think committed more crimes against the orokin? Uriel or Kullervo?

[twin wigeon]

Uriel

[fast dew]

Tldr Albrecht and Loid's relationship was genuinely illegal under orokin rule

[twin wigeon]

And yet no albrecht frame??

[strange plinth]

Kullervo has a whole Seven Crimes
Uriel.. uhh. blew up parts of Tauron Academy?

[cunning ore]

Yea, Ballas with Margulis the same but yk yk

[drowsy saddle]

Tbf, im assuming father just thought roathe was planning on overthrowing the seven, not completely destroying the orokin hierarchy

[fast dew]

"Albrecht made Roathe part Warframe. Now that is one hell of a way to win a grudge match."

Father what grudge did you know of

OHHHH

Thats right Roach has a grudge against Loid, even before they met

[cunning ore]

Tenno, of course.

[twin wigeon]

Thomas you’re gonna have to spell it out for this class of one

[fast dew]

Weirdly, that seemed to be allowed?

[cinder tulip]

right, the devils themselves

[fast dew]

Always happy to yap

[strange plinth]

Executors get to do whatever i suppose

[cunning ore]

With Ballas being an Executor and Roathe told about Ballas did something that make it approved for him

[twin wigeon]

What are you talking about even with those quotes

[fast dew]

Just new quotes im interested in

[twin wigeon]

Oh

[cinder tulip]

no it wasn't right? were'nt they of a different class?

[fast dew]

Me and the entrati family

[strange plinth]

an Executor and an Archimedean
in the case of ballas and margulis
but an executor's an executor

[fast dew]

They were publicly open with it, unlike others. Like Sorren and Jade

[cunning ore]

Then Margulis even address as "Lady" when being announced in some ceremonies. Like i heard once of the announcement while playing in The Old Peace but forgot

[twin wigeon]

What’s the likelihood that the family misses Kalymos

[fast dew]

Arguably Loid and Albrecht's relationship is more normalish

[fast dew]

DAUGHTER DOES

[twin wigeon]

Waaaa

[fast dew]

SHE HAS A LINE ABOUT IT

[twin wigeon]

Can we send her back Q.Q

Loid get on it

[cunning ore]

Yea, since they are the reason why Orokin has..close to vanquish

[twin wigeon]

Stop dusting your dust collection and make a Time Machine againnnn

[strange plinth]

"I don't care how you get him to me, I need that Norg. Can you imagine how succulent his brain is?" (slurping noises)
i'm. sorry?? kaelli??

[twin wigeon]

Kaeli is the hungry one

[cunning ore]

Okay, now the "Time Machine" tick me up. So how he travel to another timeline? Was it by the pod that Loid smashed?

[strange plinth]

mhm, the coffin

[cunning ore]

Yea that coffin

[fast dew]

The sarcophagus-
-# if i had a dollar for every time I called something a sarcophagus

[cunning ore]

But then he traveled to XX99?

[strange plinth]

"Give Kalymos a pet from me, would you? I've missed her so much."
daughter line Thomas mentioned

[twin wigeon]

We travel via infestation, he traveled via uhhhh science

[fast dew]

BAHAH Oh who put her singing badly on the wiki

[strange plinth]

what does loid even call it in the quest

[twin wigeon]

Oh nooooo

[cinder tulip]

so basically mass genocide, treason and multiple attempted regicide (and eventually accomplished)

[twin wigeon]

Aoi and Kaelli NEED to talk

[fast dew]

.. casket? I think he does refer to it

As. Something similar

[twin wigeon]

Casket iirc

[strange plinth]

"i smashed the [blank] for nothing!" after the 1999 bit

[fast dew]

Idk why I associate Sarcophagus with the entrati

[cunning ore]

If my mental analysis was true, Ballas commit the second genocide as his also suicidal for his beloved Margulis like a way to mourning his mental-illed pain.

[twin wigeon]

Prolly because he was embarking on a suicide mission

[fast dew]

NO

[lean garden]

to be fair, they were already considered devils before they did any of that

[fast dew]

Sorry I refuse to accept he will die

Please

[strange plinth]

correct, he calls it a casket

[twin wigeon]

Who, Alb?

[fast dew]

Mhm

[cinder tulip]

we should put that person in a time loop

[fast dew]

He was in one

[cunning ore]

Bro, it okay. Just Eternalism him

[cinder tulip]

give him the viktor treatment every loop

[fast dew]

He died in it multiple times

[twin wigeon]

Owh i you right, I need to see this yaoi play out

[fast dew]

.. why?

[cinder tulip]

i dunno, he hasn't suffered enough?

[fast dew]

Hows the religious fascist somehow as bad as. Albrecht

[drowsy saddle]

Albrecht at least shows remorse

[cunning ore]

We even got the standard for sufferings? Dang

[fast dew]

Who does. No worse than most modern scientists

[twin wigeon]

He’s hardly religious, he’s like manipulating the religious

[drowsy saddle]

Viktor is just in the closet and compensates by committing genocide

[twin wigeon]

lol?

[strange plinth]

-# eternalism is only theoretically accessible, its not just something we can do

[cunning ore]

Nope, it just a bit of affect from Loid. He got no remorse, no Orokin, do believe me

[fast dew]

Animal testing is a common thing, its a matter of lessening suffering

Which. Arguably the cryo sleep did do

[cunning ore]

Yes, but i can say Ballas is alive and i can love him by Eternalism

[strange plinth]

he spends several entries saying 'damn that sucked i wish i didn't do that'
is that not remorse

[cunning ore]

https://tenor.com/view/speed-trying-not-to-laugh-speed-ibara-ibara-saegusa-enstars-gif-17715826443573655753

[fast dew]

His entire duviri arc could be from suicide because of the cavia

[cinder tulip]

i think 'damn i wish i didn't do that' in his sense meant more like "oof test failed, i shouldn't have made that mistake" "BEGIN AGAIN!"

[cunning ore]

No, not his remorse. Unless he started caring about those Cavia

[fast dew]

.. why do you think he didnt do it again

[cunning ore]

If not, then i don't see any remorses more than affection from Loid

[fast dew]

And instead. Used himself

[cinder tulip]

exactly, that's what i meant

he is like a modern day scientist trying everything he can by hook or by crook to win a nobel prize for science,

[fast dew]

Except its not for an award or money

It is a literal life and death situation

[cinder tulip]

yes

[strange plinth]

Perhaps I should have. The sin I was to commit was worse.

I knew, then, that my gambit had lost. So long as I worked through scapegoats, my guilt would only deepen. I must atone for what I had done through my own blood.

I assigned the Cavia to Loid, for I could not bear to look upon them. Not yet.
lines from the cavia entries

[cinder tulip]

human/animal right are just obstacles he jumps over

[fast dew]

.. no

[cunning ore]

If he really feel sins or remorses, he not do that

[fast dew]

Can you tell me exactly what right he broke

Lemme pull out the human rights charter i have on the wall

[cunning ore]

It nothing than a white lie to defend himself. It a mechanic i used tho

[strange plinth]

In Duviri, I woke every day to the voice of my daughter. I recoiled from this at first, feeling the sting of conscience. I could not confront, even in semblance, the woman I had abandoned. Instead I reinvented myself as a teacher, advising the child-King of the menace beyond his borders.
i wonder what this is

[cinder tulip]

hey hey hey no no no i meant it figuratively

[fast dew]

Mm. Remorse. Guilt.

[cunning ore]

He explained to me that Albretch feel remorse. But then based on the action, i doubt it

[fast dew]

His actions are one of a pragmatist

He feels those emotions, the guilt, the remorse

[cinder tulip]

as necraloid said, "Be pragmatic in all aspects of life"

[fast dew]

But for the sake of his, and others survival, he needs to do this

[cunning ore]

It just all to sum-up for things be called "sacrifice" for greater tho. Those words he said like everyone can, unless he could at least do sth but not

[fast dew]

Some people mistake his pragmatism as indifference

[strange plinth]

-# indifference

[fast dew]

They appear similar, on the surface level

[cinder tulip]

but indifference is the very thing he is trying to defeat no?

[fast dew]

Mhm

[fast dew]

Perhaps. The great indifference.

The great despair...

Oh wonder if thats. Connected

[strange plinth]

I will repair what I have broken, no more and no less. The scales must balance.

[cinder tulip]

Please stay, don't give up the flame and run away...

[strange plinth]

its interesting, even if it means nothing, that On-Lyne starts the concert with The Great Despair as the loop is ending
thematically appropriate

[fast dew]

I do fully think they hired Stefan for his narrating ability

[cinder tulip]

In this heartbreak, i will be fighting for it, with or without youu

[fast dew]

Have you considered the song applies to Albrecht and Loid? I have. I have a lot.

[cinder tulip]

maybe the lyrics hide a clue?

[cinder tulip]

yea the second line made me think about it

lets see further

[fast dew]

Laying face down on my bed as I explode about the lyrics

[cinder tulip]

Wide awake, with all the things that i should say
I thought i could take more than i really can with or without you

[fast dew]

It was probably done intentionally, tbh

[cunning ore]

Regret at the cost to fight against a definition

Alas, if there anything about Ballas pls tag me 🥺 ✨
I gotta go doodles my cutie in Shadowgrap

[cinder tulip]

im writing this down from memory so there might be a few errors

[fast dew]

Nothing hurts me more is a person who is scared to communicate their affection to a person

[cinder tulip]

This obsession has turned into the great despair. hmm

yea it kinda fits wht you just said

i keep thinking i see you but theres nobody there.

[fast dew]

Considering the great indifference came from Albrecht's obsession, not surprising

Its literally them

Genuinely just gonna throw myself into duviri

[cinder tulip]

They say love is strong, i think that love isn't fair..

[strange plinth]

hm. why do on-lyne's songs have links to The Indifference and The Infestation.
if great despair links to indifference, ofc

[cinder tulip]

the timeline they exist in coinsides with the techrot infestation at that time

and the indifference part, hmm let thomas do that part

[fast dew]

Love isnt fair, it isnt, it hurts and its just not fair, much like Albrecht and Loid's relationship

[fast dew]

The infestation and the indifference are. Not exactly two sides of the same coin but.

[cinder tulip]

yeaaa

[fast dew]

They are. The direct opposite of each other

Yet they work together time and time again

-# our transference and warframes/vessels

[strange plinth]

in the reactor, as well.
sorta
the babau's the boss and there's a bunch of murmur fragments as fodder

[fast dew]

Mhm

Their goal is the same

[cinder tulip]

which is?

[strange plinth]

yet the infestation was afraid of the void in the leadup to whispers, which is the most interesting part

[fast dew]

Mm. There's a term for it

Mm. Not absolution, is it?

[cinder tulip]

i dunno, im still confused with what the indifference wants

[strange plinth]

mostly, it wants its finger(s???) back

[fast dew]

Mm. Consumption.

[cinder tulip]

hmm

[fast dew]

We theorise the indifference has something to do with entropy, inevitability

[cinder tulip]

ever read the poem fire and ice by robert frost?

[fast dew]

Mm, unfortunately not, not from memory at least. Ironically, Albrecht probably has

[cinder tulip]

hah, well basically its about the 2 theories about how the world might end

the terms fire and ice are symbold in this context

fire: greed, glutony, lust, fury etc

ice: apathy, contempt, hatred, indifference etc

so my assumtion is that the indifference might be ice

and the infestation fire

[fast dew]

"The sea rises, the light falls, lovers cling to each other, and children cling to us. The moment we cease to hold each other, the moment we break faith with one another, the sea engulfs us... and the light goes out."

This is a poem Albrecht canonically has inside his library, its. From James Baldwin iirc

[cinder tulip]

hmmm

[fast dew]

Fibonacci will say it, during a rank up cutscene

Its love poetry, I think

[cinder tulip]

it also warns about inndifference

which consumes us from within

and the infestation from without

[fast dew]

Mhm

I always wondered how Albrecht managed to get that old ass poem

[cinder tulip]

from another one of his temporal excursions i assume

[fast dew]

Now we know, I suppose

[pale cedar]

Albrecht is an old ass poem

[fast dew]

Mm, probably. I honestly wouldn't mind it. The entrati purposefully kept books over ayatans

[cinder tulip]

what good does those mechanicals even do lol

[fast dew]

Oh, ayatans? They hold memory with Aya, literal memory plasma

Memories, information

[cinder tulip]

ohh righttt i remember now, the memory plasma got to me i guess

[cinder tulip]

varzia mentioned it right?

[fast dew]

Mhm

The entrati have ayatans, one of the entrati family specifically

It was one of these 3 that are the entrati family specific one

Ngl they all kinda have the same. Aesthetic

[clever linden]

How do I get these?

Also, what has the new Arbiters of Hexis lore revealed?

[strange plinth]

they have their own sacred script
not very much about the arbiters themselves, i don't think i was wrong lol, there's a decent amount

[strange plinth]

iirc one is purchased from necraloid? not sure about the other two

[clever linden]

I’ve never even seen the other two

[clever linden]

I already knew they had their own scripture, I was asking about their new lore, such as their connection to Follie

I heard somebody on the subreddit say that apparently they believe that Follies paintings “reveal truths”?

[strange plinth]

looking through zorba's quotes now
looks like the arbiters have some old ties to the tenno, and may have been a contingency plan if lotus ever "turned" on us

follie was a "painter of hidden truths", yes

[clever linden]

That’s ridiculous when they literally send death squads against Tenno who don’t side with them, they are cynically on our side at best

Not digging at you, just saying if that’s how they see themselves, that’s ridiculous

[strange turtle]

…you can’t feel remorse without first doing a bad thing

[strange plinth]

tbf the death squads are. kind of an outdated gameplay thing
i don't think they'd be a thing if the syndicates as a whole got a "rework"

[strange turtle]

Doing a bad thing doesn’t somehow invalidate that you can feel remorseful for doing it afterwards

[clever linden]

I’d love that, but it stands as is.

Personally I really hope they lean into the fan theory of the Arbiter leadership being former surviving Dax who got “Stockholm syndrome” for the Tenno and believe what they did to the Orokin “needed to happen”

[fast dew]

One is from nightcap, but i believe all 3 are on Loid's desk

[strange plinth]

seems like the arbiters date back to the orokin empire, based on a few of these quotes
its. interesting.
Zorba mentions the Serving of the Bitter Tea

"There are many forms of Arbitration! You probably know those in which we test your fitness through combat, but you might also be tested in poetic composition, or the Serving of the Bitter Tea! Please, uh, forgive my enthusiasm. I forgot my place."
and there's. this
"And the voice cried out in pride, saying, 'who are you mites, that you presume to judge an Executor?' But the company of Hexis answered and said, 'we are akin to those millions you have oppressed, and before tomorrow dawns, we shall see justice done.'"

[fast dew]

Yeah you can't really feel remorse for something you haven't done

[clever linden]

Ok, so that may or may not actually hurt the Dax theory

[strange turtle]

Yeah the Syndicate standing stuff isn’t really a canon thing. Doesn’t match up with the circumstances or their actual in-universe behaviour, and in the first place the Tenno as a whole continue to work with all Syndicates, so targeting any doesn’t really make sense

And for all that they might dislike eachother none of the other syndicates are so egregious that they’d prioritise them over the main threats

[strange plinth]

yea
it doesn't support it but it doesn't damage it, i don't think

[clever linden]

Actually I’m surprised that the Arbiters have this strong position against the Orokin as one of the few bits of lore we had about them was their attempt to mimic Orokin hierarchy structure, which helped the Dax theory, they of all people would have a less negative view of them

But apparently they were an organization with revolutionary values from the Orokin era?

[strange turtle]

Wait wtf I just checked and they know about the Zariman

[strange plinth]

oh?

[strange turtle]

It’s in their RJ voicelines

[strange plinth]

ah

that'd make sense, if they existed when the orokin did

[strange turtle]

We tread the selfsame Void where the saga began. In the spaces between, we shall learn the truth. All is unfolding as it should."

Let me be worthy of this great office. If I fail, I shall gaze unblinking into the core until my eyes are burned away. I swear it by the Zariman."

[strange plinth]

how long have those lines existed-

[clever linden]

This is my current understanding of the Arbiters: they seek to train Tenno into a leadership role for the origin system. They see themselves as the mentors and guides of the Tenno, and eventually the upper-class of the new honor-bound order the Tenno will build in their name.

They hate the Red Veil and Perrin Sequence because they believe they debase the purpose of the Tenno, they see working for groups they see as selfish or greedy as a corruption of the honor-bound path they want Tenno to walk.

[cunning ore]

okya

[clever linden]

Oh yeah I already knew about that. There’s a post about it on the subreddit. They seem to treat the Zariman how destiny players may see the Traveler, less a machine and more a holy artifact that did what it was supposed to do, bound by fate.

[strange turtle]

Piece of advice, any of the crew wanna spend some private time together just let it happen, play some music, go for a walk, whatever. Don't play the hard ass we're all grownups and life's too short."

Meridian crewmate line sounds like the RJs do have more inside than we see in gameplay like we thought, since there, isn’t exactly much space to take a walk or do anything private

[strange plinth]

i've also found a line from the one talking during follie's hunt, she says it when you get downed by follie

good to have in-game confirmation on that

[clever linden]

Miridian are pretty miserable people but I can understand why

[clever linden]

Makes sense why we are getting an Archemedean headpiece for the operation then

[strange turtle]

Mother bless our Captain, and keep safe from all corruption beyond the firmament. Mother bless our crew, Mother keep our provisions free from worm and mold. Mother bless Cephalon Cy."

Aww

[clever linden]

Who says this?

[strange plinth]

that's a new loka line isn't it?
and the last line is begrudging

[strange turtle]

Yeah, New Loka

[strange turtle]

Damn she even sighs before saying the Cy bit 😔

[lean garden]

now if only we knew who was the archimedean

[clever linden]

Wait, so they don’t hate technology and cephalons anymore?

If so then the faction reputation system is very outdated

[strange turtle]

Does give extra confirmation that there’s more though, since they’re storing long-term provisions

[clever linden]

But I guess they could fix it by specifying that they hate cephalon suda specifically

[strange plinth]

"I have taken the liberty of drilling samples from the hull for analysis. I assure you, there is no cause for alarm. Cephalon Suda gave her full authorization."
cephalon suda crewmate why would you do this

[strange turtle]

RJ does take place post-Silver Grove, so it seems Amaryn succeeded and they became more moderate at some point

[craggy creek]

oh by the by, howdy ye lot, did anyone figure out the guide to the devil's trio Kim text? I managed to work out with all (got the meet up the fam upstairs scene) and dated Marie, but after an update El Diablo was stuck on anathema

[strange plinth]

that's odd, i'm not sure
i'd guess its a visual bug over anything else?

ran out of convos so it assumes anathema or something

[tall echo]

no no, script not scripture

different things

[clever linden]

Each Warframe which is a living idol to various cultures:

Ostrons:
Koumei, goddess of fate
Gara, war hero

Human earth tribe I can’t remember the name of(Children of Reshantur): Nezha

Solaris: Hildryn, anti-corpus superweapon

Extinct Mars culture: Inaros

Red Veil: Harrow, foundational holy figure

New Loka: Titania, creation of a saint figure to them

Arbiters of Hexis: Follie, “painter of truth” “holy fool”
(Maybe Grendel too??)

Myconians: Nidus

Vent Kids: Yareli

Altra: Gauss

[tall echo]

forgot nidus and the myconians

[lean garden]

where did you get that hildryn one

[tall echo]

in turn hildryn is never mentioned

[strange turtle]

Ghosts of Temple Telamon: Atlas, the equivalent of Satan

[clever linden]

Read again, I mentioned hildryn

[tall echo]

I mean in lore hildryn isn't mentioned

[strange plinth]

i see none of us remember the nezha group /s
-# children of reshantur

[clever linden]

Odd, I thought it was mentioned that the Solaris loved her

[fast dew]

He had a group? Makes sense

[fast dew]

Wait why is grendel associated with Arbiters now?

[strange plinth]

prolly his locator pieces being in the arbitration shop

[clever linden]

They give you technology to find his blueprint components. The only one

Feels random, I know

[fast dew]

Mm

[clever linden]

Follie feels a tad-bit gooner-coded for the ascetic Arbiters, but their lore connection seems cool to me

[strange turtle]

They have her bps and you get the resources to craft her from their stuff but it’s just a gameplay thing

[clever linden]

Ah

[strange plinth]

yea afaik hildryn's only lore is the prime trailer

[clever linden]

Same for Baruuk?

And Garuda?

[tall echo]

yes

[strange turtle]

Garuda’s infamous for her lore just being that she was found in the bushes

[strange plinth]

mhm

[lean garden]

Garuda Lore, due since 2018

[strange plinth]

you might be able to make an argument that Nokko is a 'patron' of the deepmines

[strange turtle]

Steve then promised lore for her on a stream, forgot, and nothing happened until Rebecca made another promise recently

[clever linden]

It really feels like they are setting up for her being connected to that executor who’s getting Ballas-levels of setup

Like, it feels like they are setting up Garuda to be the Uriel of her

[strange plinth]

possibly

[strange turtle]

Baruuk also doesn’t have anything going on

[tall echo]

nitokh

[strange plinth]

styanax has something in his leverian, doesn't he?

[clever linden]

Yeah but those are animals, not really a human or sentient culture

[tall echo]

styanax helped a weird cult-colony be neither of those things

[clever linden]

Same reason I didn’t include Octavia despite her deep emotional connection to Cephalon Suda, she isn’t really a “culture” just a handful of scientists

[strange plinth]

mm, yes

Gauss was the Saint of Altra, for what that's worth

[clever linden]

Is Alta a city or something?

[strange turtle]

a Tower

[strange plinth]

'ancient tower of Altra'

[clever linden]

You could almost count Protea if you wanted to, but as far as we know, Granum forces don’t see her as holy or anything

[strange turtle]

It was a fortress for the governing Orokin on Ceres

[clever linden]

I’d say that counts

[strange plinth]

nah
even parvos, the one who still exists because of her, doesn't think very much of her

[clever linden]

Did we play the same quest? He kept calling OG Protea beautiful, wonderful, glorious, etc

[strange turtle]

Ahhh. Gauss. Where to begin, where to begin. Well, the Ceres excavation, of course. The site of the ancient Tower of Altra. Blastcrete emplacements, air sentries… its fields saturated with tremor-mines. A great fortress for the great lords of Ceres… until they were pitched from the roof, immortal bodies erupting on the dread mines below. An insurgency, from within.

Dual sidearms pulled from Altra's outer ring of blastcrete bunkers. Something

[clever linden]

Added him

[strange turtle]

Her internal name is also “Odalesque”

[strange plinth]

he calls her beautiful twice and calls her a specter of her former self in the same section

[clever linden]

Yeah because she was probably one of the sentient frames back in the day

[strange plinth]

he's also entirely willing to leave the specter there so long as it keeps you in the void and lets him out

[clever linden]

Actually I think OG Protea was still sentient in the granum void….she spoke, right??

[strange turtle]

An odalisque was an enslaved chambermaid or a female house slave attendant in a Turkish seraglio, particularly the court ladies in the household of the Ottoman sultan. In western European usage, the term came to mean the harem concubine, and refers to the eroticized artistic genre in which a woman is represented mostly or completely nude in a reclining position, often in the setting of a harem.

[clever linden]

Ok so he was borderline attracted to Protea lol

In fact maybe his sisters are sad attempts at “recreating” her

[strange turtle]

His Sisters are because he has a weird complex about his brother

[clever linden]

I know that part

[strange turtle]

Yes, but she was a Spectre, the OG is gone at this point

[strange plinth]

"I am your beginning. I am your end. Entwined. Forever."
"I am your end. Entwined. Forever."
"Entwined. Forever."
"Forever."
and the whole. "Warframes cannot speak, as a rule. Their creator decided they should only scream, or roar, or howl." thing

[strange turtle]

So it’d have been something she said previously

[clever linden]

Ohhh ok that makes sense

Plus the real OG was probably a Prime

[strange turtle]

No

She’s a Spectre

A direct imitation

[clever linden]

What about Stalker?

[fast dew]

Nup. He just says protea. No indication she was a prime.

[clever linden]

Odd, since a convo between him and ballad was on the protea prime trailer

[strange plinth]

Stalker's weird, idk
he breaks the rule, but all of our frames follow it for the most part

[strange turtle]

Besides that even the Tenno only got Primes as part of a specific and high up position, let alone Parvos, ultimately just some guy

He had leverage and influence, but you can only push that so far

[clever linden]

I always imagined it was just psychic communication

Same for his acolytes

[strange plinth]

Dante can write, Koumei 'speaks' in Japanese when casting abilities, Dante & Uriel 'speak' in voidtongue when casting as well

[clever linden]

Parvos wasn’t just some guy, he came from nothing, yeah, but his proto-corpus grew so powerful the Orokon had to let them operate, they became too integral to trade and travel

[fast dew]

Ehh

[strange turtle]

They did not become “too integral” to trade and travel

[fast dew]

had to is a heavy word

[strange turtle]

They became, as I said, influential and powerful

[clever linden]

The fact a non-orokin like Parvos got his own warframe bodyguard must have been unprecedented

[strange plinth]

Parvos may have gotten his commission because of the spectre particle research that he totally didn't steal

[smoky gulch]

Ballas making exception in giving Sorren mouth to hear him hate his life after becoming a machine of war

[fast dew]

He stole a lot of shit, worse than Albrecht, because at least Albrecht didn't try and invade a family home for the cars he stole

[clever linden]

The Reliquary Drive on the Zariman is definitely Wally’s missing finger, right? And the machine in front of it extracts Kuva, e.g., his blood, right?

[strange plinth]

its a replica

[lean garden]

it's just a copy

Wally wouldn't be searching high and low for his finger if its been in a place he's already been to

[strange plinth]

iirc Yonta mentions that its a replica and everything should be fine as long as the "originals" are still locked up

[smoky gulch]

Reliquary Drives seem to be pulling a finger as a rule - Yonta notes feeling a presence on Zarimana nearby

[lean garden]

pulling a finger?

they all got fingers

[clever linden]

Originals? I thought Wally lost only 1 finger

[strange plinth]

and yet, we hear of "pale reaching digits" on the floor

[lean garden]

the finger did this champion move:

[clever linden]

Did they friggin clone his finger or something?

[lean garden]

in essence: yea

[clever linden]

Like when I saw this I thought “oh that’s his OG finger”

[strange plinth]

Cavalero: "Hey, Yonta. How many of those big finger-relics are out there, d'you think?"
Archimedean Yonta: "Well... fewer than there used to be. So long as the originals are still safely sealed away, of course."

[strange turtle]

It seems like they clone themselves

[lean garden]

the railjack has one, the zariman has another

and we know multiple railjacks were made and deployed

[strange turtle]

And Orokin just learned to, control the process

[clever linden]

Ok so Kuva is definitely his blood

[lean garden]

old

[clever linden]

Just checking if the jury was still out on that or not

[strange plinth]

ehh
the orokin had Kuva before they had the Void

[clever linden]

Where do they say that?

[strange turtle]

It’s kinda his blood but not just his blood

[strange plinth]

after albrecht first breaks into the void, he says he will not partake of the kuva again
so the kuva exists before the void does

"And so it is that I will not take the Kuva now. Or ever again. This is the last skin I'm in. Because of this idea: That I cannot be sure. That in all that smoked commotion, in all that panic and fear, in that bending light and blinding dark... was it I who escaped? Or the other?"

[clever linden]

Cuz I thought the whole reason the kuva grineer were invading Zariman was because this was the best purest source of kuva?

[clever linden]

“Fear the old blood.”

[clever linden]

Actually I just remembered that grineer and Tenno technology can draw Kuva out of the air, which sorta confuses things

[strange turtle]

It also popped out of the ground like oil in Duviri

[lean garden]

eh, while I agree with the notion that kuva might have existed before the void breakthrough, albrechts logs dont necessarily support that conclusion

because the logs are all post void tech development since its a recount. So it leaves room for kuva to have been discovered in the meantime

[strange turtle]

we who now live our perfect and dull, endless lives. It began long before these moon-palaces and body-markets hurling around our golden Sun. It began long before our light-coil thinkers, our radiation wars, our oil, smoke…. It began with us. The continuity and its twin, wanderlust. The need for unseen shores deep in our marrow. No judge, jester, queen, or king can escape this old blood. We are nomads, eternal. And when no ocean, mountain, or sky could contain us… our gaze hungered star-ward. Afar, they mocked us with their brittle light. Winking and jeering like dangling Ayatans forever out of reach, illuminating the truth: immortal as we are – we die with the Sun. That's where I come in.

And so it is that I will not take the kuva now. Or ever again. This is the last skin I'm in

[fast dew]

Btw i suggest relistening to the logs, in. I believe its Ris, Albrecht sounds so genuinely distressed over a copy of himself

Which is i think why DE got him to do Albrecht he. Really gets into character, for. Better or for worse.

The things ive heard Stefan act out

[strange plinth]

they are a recount, but it seems like he's paranoid about which one escaped from the moment he gets out, so not taking continuity (as he explains in Netra) makes sense even from right then. But he says that he will not do it again

• the regrowing his skin instead of just hopping over into a new body

[clever linden]

Personally I think they just used gene-therapy technology to live forever, while Kuva allowed post-death resurrection and full soul-transference from body to body, and it took precedence

[strange turtle]

War Within and a few other things contradicts this

They could extend life for very long, but not forever

Some didn’t even get to use Kuva freely

[lean garden]

I mean, it doesnt necessarily preclude him taking the kuva, since it was that dread that grew over time, making him later go, "maybe not any more"

[clever linden]

My idea could still work, the gene-therapy could have just been more realistic, it just granted life-extension, the discovery of Kuva through Wally’s finger granted true immortality and post-death resurrection

Like, that’s the big threat to worm queen getting too much Kuva, right? If she gets enough she could resurrect her older sister, bringing the grineer back to full strength and competent leadership

[strange plinth]

i mean, she's not been able to bring her sister back. despite her best efforts
but there's other uses for kuva, like liches and. whatever's happening with the kuva trokarians.

[twin wigeon]

uhhhhh Kuva been around since before Wally's finger was stolen iirc?

[clever linden]

I thought our efforts at countering her was preventing her resurrection ritual

[clever linden]

I haven’t seen any direct statements of that though

[twin wigeon]

Also didn't queen's body sink or smth intto water?

[clever linden]

More so “maybe”

Worm queen talks to her body like she had it with her

[twin wigeon]

well the Orokin have been around for some time before Albrecht and the only way to sustain their longevity is with Kuva rituals sooooo its inferrable that Kuva's been around before Wally's finger

[strange plinth]

worm queen doesn't mention elder queen during the kuva siphon missions.. at all, i don't think
just us "messing up all [her] plans"

[clever linden]

That’s an incredible reach IMO, before futuristic Orokin was O.R.O, they probably just had royal lineages

[twin wigeon]

but yeah, continuity usually require 2 alive people or at least when Roathe preformed emergency continuity on the battlefield his donor was alive

[clever linden]

Like there’s nothing stating that orokin were always immortal

We saw their timeline only at the very end

[strange plinth]

she does say

"My sister is sick, you grey maggots. From now on, work details are doubled. Halved rations until Kuva distillation is meeting production targets!"
in kuva fortress announcements but we also know that one of the queens being dead is kept quiet

[twin wigeon]

i mean that makes sense, we killed the guardians in the room and thus the only witnesses

[clever linden]

It’s if you fail at a Kuva siphon, she talks happily as if she’s speaking to her sisters corpse, like it’s right there with her

[strange plinth]

in the Lua's Prey trailer, she has the head on a stick

[clever linden]

Her sisters head?

[strange plinth]

mhm

i think so, at least

[clever linden]

That sorta canonized the Teshin death ending then

Cus I doubt she’d do that herself

[fast dew]

She does i think, made me sad

[fast dew]

.. he didnt die

[strange plinth]

mm, its the helmet, but it has a faceplate over it
she makes a joke about elder queen losing her head

[fast dew]

OH WAIT

Sorry its late, my meds are beating me to death rn

[twin wigeon]

sily thomas

[clever linden]

The ending where you let teshin kill elder queen

[twin wigeon]

they figured it out

[clever linden]

Yeah bro I should be sleeping too I’m typoing so frequently

[clever linden]

That doesn’t look like her actual head

[twin wigeon]

mmmmm idkkkk that looks like her head to me /j

[strange plinth]

its similar to her helmet

[twin wigeon]

got the smile and everything

[strange plinth]

not incredibly so, but enough that its. representative

[clever linden]

Her head doesn’t look the same. It looks like she just made a toy in her likeness

[cunning ore]

Anyone got any suggestion for other slots?

I try to make some lore-assosicated character, those 2 just for spawning

[twin wigeon]

paracesis?

[cunning ore]

👍 i forgot this

[twin wigeon]

or wait no, Balla's staff for arc trap

[cunning ore]

yea you right. WAit, so with The Prime Soon Glyph should i switch it with sth ekse?

[clever linden]

Or Amir’s face

[twin wigeon]

B.I.S. is a Ballas fan so im aptly suggesting ballas related things

[cunning ore]

i can make one for you if you like my style

👍 ✨

[twin wigeon]

you can have a deacon hat for the corralizer?

bc they both give slow?

[clever linden]

Eh it’s fine, but thx for offer

[cunning ore]

imma gget a notebook

[cunning ore]

Thank Chilly, i now there more slots to do art

yipppe

[twin wigeon]

oooh wait one last tthing, amphors = your favorite archon shard

[cunning ore]

But by any chance, how she can summon those? Like there some items i doubt that the Orokin Era doesn't have it?

[twin wigeon]

like what?

[cunning ore]

The RPG Thermal, The gas tank, Lohk and Death Orb might possible in that Orokin time so i just wonder how she can summon other things

It like Follie have to seen them before so she can graph it out?

[twin wigeon]

oh wait the rpg doesn't makes sense, lohk doesn't make sense either

[strange plinth]

the concepts are more important than the objects themselves
lohk surges are the biggest standout, the others could work
also death orbs are an orokin thing

[cunning ore]

Like her kits summon things that uhmm

Not in her-time? or they are?

[twin wigeon]

also the uhhhh skittergirl or wtvr is uhhhh questionable

rpg's shouldn't exist in the orokin's time

[strange plinth]

it isn't a thermian rpg, its just an rpg. the concept surviving would be enough
its just labelled as such because that's what we have

[twin wigeon]

true ig

[strange plinth]

similarly, the zariman lost spirit.. things
its just a 'go find this for me' thing that takes the form of those

[cunning ore]

It like Follie have to be anywhere oberserving so she might know

[smoky gulch]

Although... Orb Vallis Thermia gotta be different than Thermian RPG, right?

[drowsy saddle]

The concept of melting armor via superheated copper is not something we'd forget

[celest sigil]

Just genuine question

In KIM, there's a message of drifter responding something like "The orokin erased ancient earth things".

How many did they really erase? Like even the try erasing/altering cultures? (Since Chinese, Japanese, and even India, Indo/Malay language kind of there?)

[strange plinth]

they erased pretty much everything
names n such may have survived, but not necessarily the mythos around them

[cunning ore]

To be united in only one then you know

[drowsy saddle]

Considering that Earth was basically abandoned by humanity, and the orokin were the ruling class of the survivors, they could pretty much rewrite everything

[strange plinth]

most likely named similarly because they both do similar things, rather than a direct relation
heat + explode

[fast dew]

The German language did survive, somehow.

[tall echo]

german always survives

[celest sigil]

Ah maybe that's why Garuda is a woman instead of the usual man depictions, or just a name for her.

[drowsy saddle]

Well multiple cultures use garuda

Indonesia uses it as the national bird

[pale cedar]

Time to blow up the German language for surviving

[celest sigil]

I know, it's just Garuda common depictions is a man

[smoky gulch]

Oh, also might be fun to notice: Techrotted Efervon Tank has invulnerability+healing phase very akin to Eidolons. It might be just language of game mechanics reshuffling what player should already know, but it does make me wonder a bit if it's lore-ish, too

[drowsy saddle]

Arthur says it heals like proto/warframes

So less eidolon and more consuming orbs

[smoky gulch]

Indeed he does, but gameplay element is tank summoning units that walk up to the tank and heal it

Although it's probably to make sure there's active engagement to this phase

[tall echo]

yea there's no lore behind that

[craggy creek]

it was anathema, so no idea tbh, his talk didn't change that much so it could be a visual bug

[craggy creek]

but just to be sure I'll bump this one more time

[fast dew]

Mm, depends on what you mean by guide?

Like. General advice or exact booleans

[craggy creek]

I mean, either would work, I know it's key moments with specific answers so maybe that could work

[fast dew]

Because its pretty hard to fail Lyon, just. Don't say dumb shit 😭

Marie is. Just don't lie to her about how you feel regarding Albrecht (meet her half way, don't always agree with her about him being a literal saint, but don't go. He is the literal devil. Whatever you do, do not confess feelings too early, check kimulacrum if unsure)

Roach... depending on how you do it, is pretty easy too, just do descendia 21 times and try to keep thermostat above 5 (you can check this with kimulacrum too, but generally you want to oppose him in regards to the orokin empire, try and treat him as his own person, and don't punish him for the sins the other orokin made)

[craggy creek]

I mean as my previous message stated, I only "failed" Roach after the update, but wasn't sure if it count's or not (He didn't have anathema before said update but after it he did) so wondering if there's a solid guide to that beforeI start resetting the loop for them

[fast dew]

Mm, you got him up to the family, there is no real benefit to resetting and you risk more bugs

Youd only get extra dialogue about the reset tbh, i wouldn't say you need to reset

[craggy creek]

all is well then, ty

[cinder tulip]

no wonder she friendzoned me

[fast dew]

Wdym?